Author Topic: DL Mafia GAME OVER Scum Win (Read 64375 times)

Laggy · « **Reply #50 on:** May 24, 2010, 09:06:42 PM »

Actually, to the contrary, Zenny, you get all sorts of interesting reactions when people are at -3 or -2 to hammer, which leads to a lot more Relevant Things being said than not. It's important to note that (especially on Day 1) this is usually no firm indicator that person is actually going to be the lynch. This is a game where trains develop and how people play off of them is how you piece together the puzzle.

Also I am blind and missed Excal's ninjapost about Alice's whereabouts. Well then.

##Unvote: Alice
##Vote: Carthrat

Following up on what I said earlier! Rat, your input would be most appreciated on the day's events thus far. After all I'm not so keen about trains developing and then learning nothing about the train target from them!

metroid composite · « **Reply #51 on:** May 24, 2010, 09:09:50 PM »

Trying to par down people who don't have content...

Quote

Laggy:
Jokevotes Alice
Says his post will turn serious in 24-48 hours.
Zenny, we're not in danger at L-3. Alice pressure still stands.
Admits D1 lazy
Will not rely on modkills for pressure; wants srs business to start early
Fine with drawing early votes due to LAL stance if it gets people to take a stand.
Agrees with Tai on Zenny, and mentions Rat lack of content.
Points out Excal gave an explanation about Alice; switches vote to Carthrat.

SnowFire:
Jokevotes Carthrat
Provides more flavour for carthrat jokevote.
Eek, L-3! Unvote Carthrat!!
Oh, there's a power that lasts two days. rejokevotes Carthrat! (#3 jokevote train)
Votes Laggy for lazy-declaration

Ciato:
Jokevotes Laggy

Tai:
Jokevotes Carthrat (#2 jokevote train)
Jokevote switches to Kilga, then back to Carthrat (#2 jokevote)
Zenny we're not in danger from an L-3. Pressure Noyn for reasoning. No pressure on metroid composite.
Noyn's story holds up.
Read mc's post as entirely jokevote; noticed the early train but felt it was pretty random
vote Zenthor based on "DANGER FROM L-3"
Agrees with Laggy on Rat

Xanth:
Jokevotes self
Anti LAL stance--particularly dislikes Laggy metagaming. vote Laggy.

Zenny:
Jokevotes Ciato
OMG Carthrat at L-3! WE ARE IN DANGER!
Okay, maybe we're not in danger. Oh, I saw Alice in IRC today but no post....
Supports LAL; does not move jokevote, though....

QuietRain:
Jokevotes Tai
LAL votes Alice

Kilgamayan:
Jokevotes metroid comoposite
Declares metroid composite vote to be serious on grounds of not pursuing flimsy straws.

Yoshiken:
Jokevotes Kilga

metroid composite:
Jokevotes Carthrat (#3 jokevote train)
"Hi, welcome to the forums, here's how they work"
"Should grasp at a flimsy straw?"
OMGURule-votes Taitoro

Noyn:
Claims voteless for the next two days, tries to vote Carthrat.
Eek L-3! Unvote Carthrat, Vote Kilga.
"Reason for my vote placement was copy/paste vote above me" (story checks out)
"I wonder if these mod votes against me will hurt later?"
Will post tomorrow to confirm no-vote.

Carthrat:
Jokevote OMGUS for metroid composite (#2 on jokevote train)

Alice:

Enough to read somewhat
Laggy: for all that he says he's going to be lazy, he's posted a fair bit, pointed out things that haven't been pointed out yet (rat's no actual content, Alice being mentioned in modpost).
SnowFire: Makes a note of a few things that hadn't been explicitly emphasized.
Tai: First to react to Zenny L-3 situation with a vote, if nothing else.
metroid composite: There should be enough to go by on me now.

Very little to go on
Xanth: Jumps on the laggy train for a reason already posted by SnowFire (laggy said he'd be lazy)
Zenny: Calling everyone on a train retards sounds like something Zenny would do at some point during the game whether scum or town; feels like a null tell given Zenny, so his only real contribution is "I saw Alice in chat." and "I support LAL, but haven't bothered to move my jokevote."
Kilga: Okay, limited information at the time of last posting, and a reasonable stance; I want to hear again from Kilga now that more information is in the open.

Lurk/Active Lurk
Ciato--only jokevote.
Quiet Rain--hard to get much out of an LAL vote; understandable given IRL situation, to be fair.
Yoshiken--only jokevote.
Noyn--I see nothing posted that is not a null tell; take some opinions about people.
Carthrat--only jokevote.
Alice--nothing.

So...that's 9/13 people whom I don't feel have taken much of a stance on stuff (including four people who have only jokevoted or posted nothing). Obviously serious business has only just started so no big for most of these, but I will watch and see who doesn't lay down some opinions to go on.

Taishyr · « **Reply #52 on:** May 24, 2010, 09:15:56 PM »

I suddenly feel far less guilty about my walls of text. This being said that's... well, definitely one person's opinion of the situation but not horrendously inaccurate even so (Noyn I'm not looking at today, votelessness for two days(?!) feels like a scum ability off the cuff to me and while that will not excuse absence/further lack of content, they -have- provided info on the (probable) existence of that role.)

Also Zenthor -not- cussing some one or some group of people out during a day would probably be enough to give me heart palpitations.

Taishyr · « **Reply #53 on:** May 24, 2010, 09:34:38 PM »

A moment.

Xanth's post, here. First, I'll contend that MC's misrepresented this post (in summary, not in hugeblock) as voting for Laggy for something Snowfire already pointed out - that is actually not what Xanth is doing, at all, unless I miss something. Snowfire pointed out Laggy said he'd be lazy.

Granted, what Xanth is doing is not much better - he is pushing for the vote on someone who is actively talking and trying, even if in part, to justify his moves and actions (Laggy) over someone who just switched without much other than LAL behind it (QR). and using that as his reasoning, to put it simply (read the post, I confess to simplifying but that is what, to me, the post boils down to. Xanth attacks Laggy for using meta, pointing out where meta is flawed. Sure, but meta can always be flawed. Doesn't mean it's always -wrong-.)

I'm... not sure what to make of this yet, give me some time, but Xanth moving to attack the person with a far larger paper trail and who is putting in (even at that time) more attempts to push the conversation over the quieter of the two switches being discussed seems off. (The problem's popped up but my head and stomach haven't decided what to think of it, if that makes sense.)

QuietRain · « **Reply #54 on:** May 24, 2010, 10:19:34 PM »

Well, with Excal's comments about why Alice hasn't been posting, I can certainly remove my LAL vote on them. Although if Alice is replaced I'd like to see said replacement get some good comments in so we can get a read as we've lost a bit of time on it already. I support LAL, but there's a difference between Lurking and Won't Be Playing.

##UNVOTE: Alice

Comments on other things that have come up:

Noyn's voteless situation: It's strange, but I don't think it's indicative of either scum or town. I'll let his comments and votes speak for themselves. And even if you don't VOTE, you could always do something to indicate a vote without actually being one, such as Xanth's suggestion of FoS, or else "SUSPECT: PersonX" or something. Mods would prolly appreciate that more than a Vote they have to remember to discount.

Xanth's targeting of Laggy over his use of meta. I'm not in the Meta-Is-Always-Bad camp. It's like any tool in mafia, something to use to weigh the posts in the current game. I certainly think it has, by it's very definition, some gaping holes in it's use so I wouldn't use it as an end-all-be-all. A person can, and sometimes does, fully change his/her playing style to cover their tracks when switching sides of the fence (or when they notice that they act a certain why when either a townie or a scum). But using meta as one tool among others is just as justified as using your common sense and your ability to judge the likkihood of something occuring. I hardly see it as vote worthy, but I do understand the MIAB camp's viewpoint, so I won't say it makes Xanth or Laggy look scummy to me. Seems the usual playstyle argument issue.

So far I'm getting a bunch of null reads (it's Day 1, what else is new), so I don't have anyone that really registers more scummy to me than anyone else. Lacking a scum read, I tend to go with the tool of last resort, LAL. Ciato's just had the intro joke vote, I'd like to see more out of her.
##VOTE: Ciato

Carthrat · « **Reply #55 on:** May 24, 2010, 10:44:25 PM »

Good morning~

Vote on metroid was as serious as it gets, is only getting more serious with his quickly-deployed wall of text and ratings on many different players. It is extreme-reporting-filler-style, and there's already enough Aya in this game that we don't needs no more.

Also LaL does not work that day you don't do it first thing day one that never works, lrn2LaL properly. It is actually fairly worrisome to see it propogated as a legitimate early tactic when it is not really. People must be given time beyond the early voting stage to lurk before they can be deemed as lurkers. Additionally there is is rarely a shortage of 'contentless' people early in the day on whom pressure can be put, but at this stage I see no reason to vote in that direction.

metroid composite · « **Reply #56 on:** May 24, 2010, 10:55:28 PM »

Quote from: Taitoro on May 24, 2010, 09:34:38 PM

I'll contend that MC's misrepresented this post

Yeah, doesn't surprise me that I misrepresented one or two posts. My primary goal in writing that post was "if we're going to pressure Carthrat for only having a joke vote, I want to know who else only has a joke vote/mimimal content."

Quote from: Taitoro on May 24, 2010, 09:15:56 PM

votelessness for two days(?!) feels like a scum ability off the cuff to me and while that will not excuse absence/further lack of content, they -have- provided info on the (probable) existence of that role.

Voteblocker I'm not sure is a scum ability. This is pure setup speculation now, but...

Excal said the game would be 11 or 13 players; with numbers like that, 3 scum seems likely. The argument for scum voteblock would be that going from 11 to 13 players, voteblock blocks two people, so that makes it kinda like 11.

The argument against that is...13 players minus two town votes stacks the statistics much more against Town (same number of days until LYLO, but Town is much less likely to hit scum on a guess).

A third angle--the voteblocker targeted the newbie, as opposed to targeting a veteran night 0. Probably what Town voteblocker would do. Scum voteblocker...might target the newbie too (look like town, still get early LYLO!)

So...yeah, wouldn't automatically conclude voteblocker = scum.

Kilgamayan · « **Reply #57 on:** May 24, 2010, 11:08:37 PM »

Jeez, so much LURKERS MURDER DEATH KILL going on. What the hell, the game is 24 hours old, there's far too high a chance for outside mitigating factors to make LAL worth endorsing (just look at Alice). What's going on here? We already have a Hitler of lurkers, so now we're going to have a Burgdorf of lurkers, a Koller of lurkers, a Schenck of lurkers...

Uh no. Can't get behind this movement at all, it's an easy way of getting out of having to hold an opinion. Not terribly happy with Laggy or QR. Not really understanding MC's Tai vote; nearest I can read is that Tai is scummy for thinking MC's first vote was a joke? Uh. ED1, self-admitted grasping at straws, I know, but you couldn't find anything better to point at in your summary? (Never mind my natural irritation with D1 game summaries.) Can you explain your Tai vote further for me? If it is for the reasons I have stated, I'd like to know why that action is scummy.

Still not happy with what I've seen, still good enough for a D1 vote. Summaries and role speculation, especially this early, are opinion covers as far as I'm concerned.

Laggy · « **Reply #58 on:** May 24, 2010, 11:11:20 PM »

I don't think any of the LAL votes running around are to be read as "zomg person is lurking hardcore is obviously scummy" but rather pressure votes designed to get people to start participating in the gosh darn game already. They'll become more traditionally in-line LAL votes if said content isn't eventually produced, which was exactly the gist of what I was saying about my vote becoming serious if Alice didn't post in a reasonable timeframe.

That said it's still a pretty good point that it's being showcased that much and shouldn't be a shield to hide under all the time, and a response in line that I'd expect from Rat. For the mc push, I've honestly been chalking that up to mc being mc and first real Mafia game and all, which may be a poor objective defense but one I can buy for the time being.

Kilgamayan · « **Reply #59 on:** May 24, 2010, 11:19:45 PM »

I'll admit the MC push isn't terribly strong (lol Day 1), but I still think the case against her is better than trying to bust people's chops for simply not being here, however much effort is being put into such pushes. If she clarifies her Tai vote for me and provides a good reason as to why she's still holding onto it (or makes a better case) then I'll move off. (Assuming, of course, that her explanations are satisfactory.)

Also, Laggy, why is your vote still on Rat?

Laggy · « **Reply #60 on:** May 24, 2010, 11:26:35 PM »

Because I am forgetful and need some time when I'm not occupied by other distractions to evaluate other cases. There are plenty of other people (Ciato, Yoshi) who could be posting as well.

I'm not disagreeing with your case, for the record, as stated by my own preference for short and simple. Rather, mc's reporter/evaluation/large summary post is very much in line of how she writes period and that's why I don't really feel inclined to go after her throat for it.

##Unvote: Rat

Cotigo · « **Reply #61 on:** May 25, 2010, 12:12:45 AM »

(You want more cussing, I'll give you more cussing.)

Eh, MC's reporting thing's kind of a null tell if you ask me. Sure, it's a good way for scum to look like they're contributing without actually doing so. On the other hand, it's an easy way for longwinded asshats to get their thoughts in order. Don't know enough about MC's Mafia playstyle to know much beyond that, but I do know enough about her normal posts to toss her in the "longwinded asshat" category.

Re: MC. Of course I didn't move my jokevote off. I'm far more cautious about that than other people seem to be about it. I was wary of people training on Rat before he even posted. What bloody reason would I have to hop on another lurker train? Admittedly, I didn't see Excal's note about Alice maybe needing a replacement, but in hindsight I'm glad I didn't move my vote.

Also agreeing with Kilga that the Tai vote is kind of odd. Yeah, he didn't press your jokevote harder which is a little off as I said before, but Jesus. Joke vote phase. We mislynched a guy last game for not getting a grasp on that. Beyond that Tai's actually been trying to look for tells other than LaL, so, y'know. lolwhat.

That said... meh. Still nothing that I'm really picking up on. And hey look there's my boss walking this way gotta duck out now.

SnowFire · « **Reply #62 on:** May 25, 2010, 12:27:27 AM »

Laggy why are you not being lazy. If you were lazy like promised then I could be lazy too and leave my vote on you.

##UNVOTE:Laggy

It IS a bit early but I am also philosophically on the MURDER DEATH KILL LURKERS side of the "what to do Day 1" fence, at least when no one is saying much, and Laggy is at least participating.

Also agree that MC is being MC. I thought that long post was rather interesting and had some content, so somewhat worried people are holding this against her. (Kilga's question about the vote is fair though, I don't entirely follow it myself either.) Don't think I agree with MC's role balance speculation though, I don't think we have enough information at the moment. Hence my "file this away for later" comment on the unexpected length; when we start hearing roleclaims and/or seeing flips in later days, Noyn's predicament may make more sense.

So. I don't really agree with Carthrat's last post. The part about requiring some time to pass to qualify as a lurker is self-evidently true, of course, but meh, and the "reporter" accusation is the weakest one against MC. And that's about it as far as content. Could be an active lurk if I squint.

Screw it, it's early. Let's see how many Unvotes / Re-votes of Carthrat I can rack up in one day.

##VOTE: Carthrat Mk. III, The Revenge

metroid composite · « **Reply #63 on:** May 25, 2010, 12:42:32 AM »

Short version--Kilga's correct in that there's now a lot more content to respond to than Tai not calling me out, not to mention Tai has been strong on content since then. I should probably move my vote off. And onto...

NINJA'D
Okay, so Zenny's not un-jokevoting is more playstyle then; I suppose I accept that explanation. Umm...

Anti-LAL trains...I have pretty serious issue with these, in that they're basically just playstyle arguments. Same with anti-"L-3" vs "you overreacted to L-3". Same with "metagame" vs "anti-metagame". Both sides of such arguments tend to be pretty null-tell to me--they don't really take much of a stance on this specific game. (But honestly, they happen; I'd just like people to point out better stuff).

Xanth train: There might be something there. I'll confess to newbie-issues here (reading Xanth's post produced "huh, I'm not sure I understand"; scumminess in intellectual obscurity? Will Return To When I Have Time: Xanth).

(IRL note: need to do laundry; I need to reread Xanth (NINJA'd and Carthrat) when I get back).

I suppose it couldn't hurt to...Xanth--can you explain your case on Laggy in terms even a newbie would understand?

UNVOTE: Taitoro
VOTE: Xanth

Taishyr · « **Reply #64 on:** May 25, 2010, 01:20:38 AM »

For the few people that are not in the forum's chat room/not paying attention.

I will be posting semi sporadically, especially while at home. This is due to goddamn bees, my focus while in the house is kinda shot. This being said I will be paying attention to topic and if anyone addresses stuff to me I'll answer. This should be dealt with one way or another by tomorrow afternoon I hope at the latest, there will be no longterm issues, yadda yadda.

Re: everything since I last posted... skim skim skim read skim read skim okay skim read okay skim read okay wanna hear more from... Noyn/Ciato/Yoshiken/Xanth. Somewhat querulous on people attacking MC for "reporter", I think I barked at people last game about this one but a breakdown of what's happened isn't always reported, she provided her opinions in part, and it was at least useful in making me look at the Xanth content again and go "wait what?" so.

Cotigo · « **Reply #65 on:** May 25, 2010, 01:27:19 AM »

H'okay, off work now. Still not much else to say on anyone else, but I think I can do some Xanth-to-English translation for MC. Correct me if I'm off, of course, Xanth.

In Cthulhu Mafia, Alice lurked and consistently avoided modkill by a nose. Throughout this I'd seen him in chat with some frequency so with this sort of meta it lead a lot of us to think that he was scum (Xanth included since he was on the town side). Turns out he was not only town, but a self reviver, so us mislynching him was not only a good thing for town but was the only reason town had an opportunity to still win at that point. So, based off of that example, to Xanth Laggy putting pressure on Alice for lurking and being in IRC is somehow more bad than Laggy putting pressure on Alice for just lurking? I guess?

I can see the logic behind it but I'm not sure I agree. In fact after thinking it over a bit I'd like some clarification, too.

Oh, yeah, MC, remember to do the two #s before voting/unvoting. Helps the mod count votes more easily.

Tai ninja, nothing to add but an obligatory KoL reference.

Yoshiken · « **Reply #66 on:** May 25, 2010, 01:45:51 AM »

Alright, I'm here. Stupid sleep patterns, college assignments and my sister breaking up with her girlfriend mean I don't have too much time right now, but I'll definitely post all my thoughts when I get the chance. Better I post rarely with content than a lot with none, right?

LaL is bad enough Day One, but the way it's being used here is terrible. Just saying "Once they post content, I'll move my vote" is awful - it takes actual content to move a vote, and that's why LaL is mostly useless Day One, where almost any content can be classed as good content.

I don't like the summary of what's happened from MC, especially because it comes with no opinions whatsoever. Last post is much better for that, at least, so it's a null read, I guess.

Then there's the discussion over whether or not the voteblocker is scum - not agreeing with Tai on ignoring the voteblocked for today, because it is a WIFOM point at best. It could be a Scum role, yes. It could also be 3rd-party. It could also be a Town role. There are ways to support any of those stances. Ignoring someone over it is pretty bad (as is assuming anything from it - it's a null tell at best)

Finally, don't agree that playstyle discussions are always bad - some people can contradict themselves majorly when trying to meet certain playstyles, and it is useful to know what playstyle people will go with, so it is clear if they change later on in the game.

With all that said:
##Unvote, ##Vote: Laggy
Easily the worst of the LaLers today. Pressure voting is good early in the day, but now we need some actual content, and so... he removes his vote.

Ninja'd: Tai: She presented her opinions in that post? I'm not seeing it, outside of one or two players. It also ends with "I'll wait and see what else happens" which kinda defeats the purpose of a summary post.

Laggy · « **Reply #67 on:** May 25, 2010, 02:00:11 AM »

LAL is bad, I don't like mc's summary but it's a null read, I don't agree with Tai because the voteblocking thing is a null read, hay Laggy you're terrible because you're pushing this but took off your vote after the guy he went after posted something resembling a response.

If this entire discussion hadn't started in the first place we would, in all likelihood, be stuck in jokevote phase land. You're going off and complaining about needing "actual content" but at the same time saying it's impossible to get on Day 1 and that makes prodding people for content.... bad? That's kind of silly. And no offense, but "now we need some actual content" and then voting me when I feel I have been decently vocal about what I think boggles me.

##Vote: Yoshi

Taishyr · « **Reply #68 on:** May 25, 2010, 02:13:12 AM »

In giving a breakdown and summary one inevitably introduces one's own interpretations and opinions into the mix. Complete objectivity of subjective content is not impossible but it'd be meaningless for our purposes, and mc introduced her own opinions on who she thought had or had not produced sufficient content and the quality therein of that content. Is most of the post fluffy? Sure, but there is still that evaluation of quality and content, and dismissing that seems flawed.

Re: voteblocker: I won't get into it right now, and I'm hardly laying off Noyn entirely if I'm asking for content from them, am I? But it still reads far more likely to me as scumvoteblock over anything else. Doesn't have to be, no. But likeliest scenario of what I see thus far, yeah, that's my gutcheck.

aaand yeah kinda seconding Laggy here, going after him for the absence of a vote seems semi-pointless as a dig. I do agree with the basic issue of LaL Yoshiken presents but think his vote target's very mistaken here, interested to see a further defense of the case.

Meanwhile...

##UNVOTE: Zenthor/Makkotah
##VOTE: Xanth

Yeah, less and less satisfied with that reasoning on Xanth's side, it seems like a far more fabricated case the more I tug it apart mentally. Now back to my worry about goddamn bees

metroid composite · « **Reply #69 on:** May 25, 2010, 02:26:38 AM »

Quote from: Taitoro on May 25, 2010, 02:13:12 AM

Re: voteblocker: I won't get into it right now, and I'm hardly laying off Noyn entirely if I'm asking for content from them, am I? But it still reads far more likely to me as scumvoteblock over anything else. Doesn't have to be, no. But likeliest scenario of what I see thus far, yeah, that's my gutcheck.

Briefly (as I have more laundry):

Even if voteblocker IS a scum, that doesn't mean Noyn isn't. In fact, voteblocking their own person to disguise opinions is actually quite possibly more beneficial to them than targeting town day 1 (especially in the case of a user who we don't know is familiar with FoS). Yes, eventually they want to hit town to push LyLo earlier but earliest possible LyLo is presumably day 3, so missing day 1 and day 2 wouldn't really hurt scum.

(Though I do agree that there's not much point pursuing Noyn until we get some content).

Yoshiken · « **Reply #70 on:** May 25, 2010, 02:42:53 AM »

Laggy: LAL is bad on Day One, yes. Summary is a null read because other posts give opinions, which is the only problem in the summary. Discussion starting is good, yes, and I can't see where I even implied that prodding people for content is bad - that's not what you've done, though, you're just prodding for anything.
Posting =/= content, and in your response to Rat, you say that LAL shouldn't be a shield to hide under, yet, until your last post, you'd done nothing but LAL, and even the vote against me seems to be because I'm ignoring LAL to vote on content instead.

Tai: I didn't dismiss the post entirely, but there are very, VERY few opinions in there. As for the voteblock, that is pure role meta with no evidence. We've as much reason to assume it's a scum role as we do to assume it's a town role.

Taishyr · « **Reply #71 on:** May 25, 2010, 03:11:55 AM »

I agree it's role meta entirely, currently disagree that we should consider it equally likely to be a town role as to be a scum role but I'm not concerned about pushing the point as trying to hunt down the voteblocker is totally unproductive anyway and the only reason the alignment comes up is in reflection on Noyn right now.

Also I -really- dislike people going "scum could use powers on scum!" yes, it's possible. yes, it could be done for the sake of a gambit. But frankly if they have -nothing better to do with voteblocking power than to deny one of their own members a vote for the sake of gambiting- then I really have to question the efficacy of their planning. In general scum will attempt to frustrate and annoy town with what resources they have. (Hi, Soppy!) Discombobulated thinking is an aid to them. Still meta? Yeah, sure. But I can't honestly think just yet that it's a town role or that it's scum targeting scum. Neither one seems more likely than an actively debilitating role being used to try and squelch discussion.

That's pretty much the final of it, I think this conversation's mostly distraction at this point and apologize for encouraging it on my end - we can debate use of this meta all day and night but in the end what's going on in the game should take priority. I'd delete the above to reflect this but feel the response should be at least noted.

Probably going to sleep soon, need something resembling coherent sleep. beeeees.

Luther Lansfeld · « **Reply #72 on:** May 25, 2010, 03:37:23 AM »

To me, a voteblocker who voteblocks a new person is.... pretty scummy/TPish, although I would not let that stop me from pursuing a case on the new guy. As is, I think there are better candidates for lynching currently.

The entire Laggy/Tai/Yoshi slapfight is giving me headaches currently. I think that people overreact about LAL because well the game hasn't really gotten going yet. I basically agree with Yoshi that is an easy way to just be lazy.

However:

Snowfire is the person who currently concerns me most. I feel like he attacks Laggy for really frivolous reasons and hasn't done much else at all. I don't terribly like his argument and before that he goes Vote Rat, don't vote rat, oh it's okay to vote Rat~ I don't have a lot else to really say about that since, well, there's not much else about it.

QR feels like she is just flipping from 'lurker' to 'lurker' (I love the term lurker because it implies I was actually reading the topic >_>) but she admits that it is a placeholder vote. Not great but not overly scummy.

MC has given the most pro-town vibes so far. Laggy, Tai, and Yoshi all read fairly neutrally for all that I agree with whoever said that talking about the voteblocker is fine. Meta is an acceptable part of the game; just don't let it dictate all of your play.

Anyway, I am currently hanging out with the lovely mod so I shall stop being anti-social~

##VOTE: Snowfire

SnowFire · « **Reply #73 on:** May 25, 2010, 04:36:45 AM »

A brief reply to Ciato, need to noodle over the other cases some more.

If you think my Laggy-vote was frivolous I'll just remind you that I only had frivolous material and jokevotes to work with at the time that vote was placed, as only Kilga + QR had laid serious votes then. I think that a stated intention to lurk is at least somewhat suspicious, but Laggy has proceeded not to lurk, so you'll note I've withdrawn my vote from him. As for Rat that was just a jokevote I temporarily withdrew due to Makkotah's "OMG L-3" comment. The last Rat vote is for real though.

metroid composite · « **Reply #74 on:** May 25, 2010, 04:37:29 AM »

Quote from: Taitoro on May 25, 2010, 03:11:55 AM

Also I -really- dislike people going "scum could use powers on scum!" yes, it's possible. yes, it could be done for the sake of a gambit.

Oh, in the abstract I share your dislike. You miss my point, however, that "can't vote" is not necessarily a negative--in fact "can't vote" early in the game could actually be kinda positive for scum.

In tangential news...I'm finding myself not comfortable with most of

Yoshi's posts.

Paragraph 1 is IRL stuff.

Paragraph 2 about playstyles! "Rawr, LAL is bad." Not much there.

Paragraph 3...

Quote from: Yoshiken on May 25, 2010, 01:45:51 AM

I don't like the summary of what's happened from MC, especially because it comes with no opinions whatsoever. Last post is much better for that, at least, so it's a null read, I guess.

Really? Because that's the exact opposite from what I remember ("whoops, should have switched my vote" post was pretty empty of new ideas, summary post was not).

Paragraph 4 is voteblocker role speculation. Nothing wrong with that, but I still don't have anything.

Paragraph 5 calls for more playstyle discussions so that we can catch people when they're inconsistent! Okay, here's an actual opinion...kinda. And...I don't agree. Knowing that someone's day 1 playstyle is LAL doesn't tell us much about their day 5 playstyle.

Paragraph 6

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With all that said:
##Unvote, ##Vote: Laggy
Easily the worst of the LaLers today. Pressure voting is good early in the day, but now we need some actual content, and so... he removes his vote.

Wait, "pressure voting is good early in the day", doesn't that contradict your own paragraph 2?

Laggy's also had some content at the time you posted--supported Tai in his voting for Zenny over Zenny's L-3 reaction, first person to mention "hey, Rat only has a jokevote too", points us to the mod post on Alice (which I had totally missed), and diffused things with "this is how mc always writes." Nothing amazing, but not completely lacking in content.

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It also ends with "I'll wait and see what else happens" which kinda defeats the purpose of a summary post.

Serious lack of observation here.

Trying to par down people who don't have content... - metroid composite

My primary goal in writing that post was "if we're going to pressure Carthrat for only having a joke vote, I want to know who else only has a joke vote/mimimal content." - metroid composite

I don't know what the "purpose of a summary post" is supposed to be, but the goals of that post were pretty clearly stated.

NEXT POST!

Couple sentences re-iterating stuff and then...

Quote from: Yoshiken on May 25, 2010, 02:42:53 AM

Discussion starting is good, yes, and I can't see where I even implied that prodding people for content is bad - that's not what you've done, though, you're just prodding for anything.

Mmm...evidence? I'll admit I'm not 100% happy with Laggy, and if you can back this up I'll be interested.

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yet, until your last post, you'd done nothing but LAL

Laggy had done nothing but LAL with his votes, yes; he expressed opinions on a wider variety of issues, however.

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and even the vote against me seems to be because I'm ignoring LAL to vote on content instead.

No offence, but...your post read very weakly to me. I was seriously considering switching my vote to you, but kneejerked that the flaws of your post were due to scrambling to catch up with the topic.

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