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Author Topic: DL Mafia GAME OVER Scum Win  (Read 64305 times)

Glen Veil

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #150 on: May 26, 2010, 10:01:48 PM »
It's not like I've completely dismissed Mc, it's just that it's lively to just be newbie mistakes, and the only way to get better is to get more then a day's worth of playtime each game.

Considering how the only other people I really felt suspicious of at the time were Noyn, who can be put off, and Alice, for that lone sentence that I may have hyper focused on a bit. (Even if it's a typo, man does it read badly to me)  However, really not happy with the rebuttle, since it seemed to focus more on denouncing me rather then pointing out that it was worded poorly, which only came after others agreed about it how it looked less then desirable.

Anyways, time to claim, FE7 Mathew, my power is each night I can convince one person they owe me a favor, and prevent them from targeting me with a night action.  Laggy did not use this power n0.

Tohsaka Rin

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #151 on: May 26, 2010, 10:03:08 PM »
The Harmonian encampment was merry, for most of the men had begun feasting on dinner.

A select few were isolated, staring blankly at a map Sasarai had had his adjutant spread out before them.

The numbers were confusing.

Day 1 Votecount

Alice (3): Cyril, Quietrain, Metroid, Glen, Snowfire, Ciato
Carthrat (2): Snowfire, Taishyr, Taishyr, Metroid, Snowfire, Cyril, Snowfire, Zenny, Metroid
Glen (5): Ciato, Snowfire, Xanth, Yoshiken, Kilga, Carthrat, Taitoro
Taishyr (0): Taishyr, Quietrain, Metroid
Xanth (0): Xanth, Metroid, Taishyr
Ciato (0): Zenny, Quietrain
MC (2): Kilga, Carthrat, Alice, Glen, Roukanken, Alice
Kilga (0): Taishyr, Yoshiken
Zenny (0): Taishyr, Kilga, Roukanken
Yoshiken (0): Cyril, Ciato
Snowfire (0): Ciato, Alice
Noyn (0): Excal, Excal, Metroid
Excal (0): Snowfire

Not Voting: Noyn

With a lucky 13 contenders aiming for the grand prize, it'll take 7 votes to elect a wi--wait, I got that wrong...
With an unlucky 13 contenders for lynch, it'll take 7 votes to condemn someone.

There is one hour remaining in the day. If there is still discussion after an hour, the deadline will be extended by fifteen minutes until either there is a lynch target, or conversation has stifled.

Kilgamayan

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #152 on: May 26, 2010, 10:06:25 PM »
I...don't really get Ciato's case on Alice. I'm going to assume the "usual neverpresent self" line is tongue-in-cheek given the circumstances (Alice currently participating, Ciato not being very active at all herself, earlier establishment that LurkerAlice is a null Alice tell), so we'll ignore it and move on.

What I would like to know, however, is what specific things you disagree with Alice on, Ciato. Obviously asking for a full list of all the tiny details is not very nice, but I'd still like to know the main issues on which you feel he is in the wrong.

Ciato's whole case reads as her only trying to convince herself that Alice is worth a vote instead of trying to sell the case to everyone else, to be honest. Maybe she doesn't care if other people buy into her case or not? Dunrlyknow. I kinda want to vote this when combining it with QR's lack of "oopmh" behind her votes while she was playing but it might just be standard Ciato play and I don't think a Ciato train would take at this point anyway. Still not a fan, though.

What Ciato's vote does do for me, combined with the other votes there, is make me wary of the Alice train. It's coming entirely from either people or reasons I don't particularly trust and feels like a potential end-of-day dash-to-a-lurker train. The circumstances surrounding the train do not endear me to the idea of taking part.


[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Kilgamayan

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #153 on: May 26, 2010, 10:16:00 PM »
Also, Glen claim noted. Doesn't sway me one way or the other.


[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Xanth

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« Reply #154 on: May 26, 2010, 10:19:00 PM »
Kilga: well, truth be told that's partially why I've been suspicious of the Rat train, and the Alice train less so. (what's QR got to do with Ciato? Rou replaced QR)

Having said that, the way the lynch is approaching isn't filling me with much hope for scumLagGlen, now I look at it. Not much of a rush to save or damn him for bonus points. Late day stagnation is rarely with a scum at the top.

I'm considering options out of right field to second guess this, but can't / have yet to settle on anyone looking scummy enough to try and rush. Thoughts?

Kilgamayan

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #155 on: May 26, 2010, 10:28:40 PM »
Oh derp, yeah, I have no idea what I was thinking with the Ciato/QR thing. My bad, remove that "point" against her.

A dark horse candidate? Can't think of one, really. Yoshi, Snow and Zenny are the names that come to mind because they're the ones I'm most neutral on, but I don't have an actual case on any of them right now so I'm not prepared to push them. Maybe a Ciato push because of the out-of-nowhere potential bandwagonhop but I don't know how much of why I think badly of her was because of the QR fuckup and I think I'd want to see a flip first before deciding whether or not she's really worth pursuing.


[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Taishyr

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #156 on: May 26, 2010, 10:33:57 PM »
Glen claim noted as well, I'm... not terribly moved. This being said I note Xanth's observation and do also agree with some bitterness; I'm not inclined to switch off solely due to meta reasoning, but at the same time it's concerning me that this has stagnated at this point (maybe just due to the timing of the deadline? I don't know). Additionally I'm not terribly convinced just yet on any other leading case.

I could be convinced on Yoshi or Ciato if others around are willing to agree on a move; Yoshi for reasons above, Ciato for absence/lurking. Of the two, I'd move Yoshi, and wait to see if Ciato's legendary hatred of day 1 does indeed fade on day 2, and if so, fade into what - but yeah, can't not support Ciato here either.

And for the record, still not terribly fond of Xanth but that's likely to fly next to never at this point based on the record thus far, and it might just be viewpoint miss. So.

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #157 on: May 26, 2010, 10:35:47 PM »
... and even after editing the line three times I still dislike the way it reads.

I'm not inclined to switch off solely due to meta reasoning, <-- I'm not inclined to switch away from Glen simply because of Xanth's reasoning that it's rare for a scum lynch D1 to stagnate, all else considered.

Apologies, that bugged me on a reread of my own post.

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #158 on: May 26, 2010, 10:36:50 PM »
Okay, I really ought to comment on Alice as it's one of the major trains.

the Rat train built excessively rapidly, and, unless Excal's even more of a bastard mod than Snow is, not everyone on that wagon is going to be Scum

Illogical noise.  I see zero connection between bastard moddery and people forming an early train.

Quote
not to mention that quickhammers have occured here in the past - so I fail to see why it would necessitate Scum to have "guts" to try to cram such a thing through

Taking the stance that D1 quicklynch from L-3 actually is a serious threat.  (Universally agreed the opposite by all other players, even Zenny by that point; trying to re-start the argument?)

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Anyway! Noyn is probably the main person to discuss today: I pretty much agree with Kilga here, I'm not sure it gives a nice swing alignment-wise. Also, because the opening post stated that such events "usually" only lasted one day does not mean that they universally will

Pushing Noyn speculation, AND reportering on the "OMG 2 days" thing that had already been pointed out by 2 people.

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- and I'm also extremely perplexed at Laggy's behaviour: first he votes me over lurking, while complaining about the Rat train, then he backpedals stating that "oh hey maybe voting Rat to L-2 might be a good idea after all for we get useful information this way!"...um, why, how? It's Day freaking One.

Two complete misrepresentations here.  Laggy complained about Zenny's overreaction to the Rat train.  And when he voted for Rat, it was for the lurker reason, and it put rat at L-6 not L-2.



Alice's second post I've covered in the past; pretty weak jumping on SnowFire, and I don't know how you post two paragraphs about two sentences.


Third post:
Quote
I assumed that Scum were on the Rat jokevote train from a simple statistics argument, come on here, people, given a wagon that builds that rapidly and that easily, there is almost certainly at least one Scum on it simply because there are a nontrivial amount of Scum in the game to begin with, and it's exceedingly likely that one of them decided that hopping onto Rat was a good idea.

Purely statistically?  Assuming 3 scum/13 players:
mc/Tai/Snow perspective: 42% chance.  
outsider perspective: 58% chance.

Scum "exceedingly likely" decide to jump on?  Even if I though jumping on was a smart scum strategy, it's WIFOM at best.

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Glen's latest post is awful

Don't agree.  Actually, Glen is looking fairly good to me right now (certainly better than Laggy did) and I'm getting a little uncomfortable that last I looked at the scoreboard a Laggy/Glen lynch is looking most likely.

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No, I wasn't voting Snow for wishy-washiness, I was voting him for agreeing with Rat's post, then throwing its content out because of (and I quote) "meh", and then voting Rat for no appreciable reason.

When did...SnowFire EVER agree with Rat?  SnowFire is pro-early-LAL (disagrees with Rat) and feels that my summary post actually has a fair bit of content (disagrees with Rat).

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Lern2read. Your entire post is awful, all of your opinions read like something along the lines of "maybe X but also perhaps Y and perchance also Z really I'm not sure now come to think of it". Also - you spend most of your post slamming m_c, and then vote me over...two lines complaining that you disagreed with my reasons for voting Snow (which you also got wrong, see above). Le what, monsieur?

Somewhat tempted to actually vote him if it weren't for the fact that it all comes off far more as "completely clueless noob" than someone actually Scummy.

Wall of text that at-best reports and at-worst misrepresents.  (And flaming).  Calls Glen incompetent (as an easy way to dismiss the argument) when I'm not getting that vibe at all.

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Oh, come on now Glen, you can't seriously be stating that a single short paragraph in my opening game post that basically was to the effect of "yeah, I agree with Kilga, the Noynsense is pretty much closed for now" is somehow an attempt to restart discussion around him? Seriously? I will admit my opening sentence was sort of badly worded, but you can see from reading, y'know, the rest of that paragraph, that there's not much more to discuss here.

A simple "whoops that was badly worded" would have sufficed; paragraph!

Quote
correct me if I'm wrong here but I was under the assumption that m_c was, at one point, a regular player here.

Nope, this is my first mafia game, as I have mentioned in some of my posts so...it's a little surprising you're unaware of it (oh, Laggy also mentioned it, and Laggy/Glen is your other top target).



Mmmmm...I really, really don't like the writing style of Alice's posts.  Responding to it, I feel like I'm...to quote Alice, "playing gotcha games", but the posts are written in such a way that I find them hard to respond to without playing gotcha games.  Alice's "content"...half of it is easy to verify as incorrect.

Okay, sec, going to see how many NINJAs I have...10!

Hmm...I'll read over those in a sec; major trains seem to be Alice and Glen, and as previously mentioned I'm actually liking Glen's current content a lot more than Laggy (who was only minorly negative).

##Vote: Alice

Xanth

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« Reply #159 on: May 26, 2010, 10:38:45 PM »
I'm unwilling to go for Ciato. Fairly general principal working from the risk of losing a major town player if wrong, and I'm not nearly sure enough here.

I could be up for Yoshi, though. Give me a bit to re-read.

Taishyr

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #160 on: May 26, 2010, 10:43:07 PM »
Okay mmm thinking myself and relooking over my vote. Votecount, please?

Taishyr

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #161 on: May 26, 2010, 10:43:48 PM »
... Sorry, I misthought last votecount was on page 6. I can count the votes easily myself from here. -_-; toro.

Glen Veil

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #162 on: May 26, 2010, 10:44:05 PM »
Feeling pretty much resigned to getting lynched at this point, of course I would be happy to move the vote elsewhere if it would save my skin but doubt it's happening.

Not particularly understanding the logic of feeling that I'm town due to stagnation, yet at the same time still being distrustful of potential Alice/Mc trains.  Not seeing the logic in thinking scum would push them if people also feel that I'm town.

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #163 on: May 26, 2010, 10:47:33 PM »
Anyways, time to claim, FE7 Mathew, my power is each night I can convince one person they owe me a favor, and prevent them from targeting me with a night action.  Laggy did not use this power n0.

I...what?  Okay, scratch what I said about feeling uncomfortable on a Glen lynch.  Why would you not use this power night 0?  I mean, why not use it night 0, just so that someone else could confirm your power if you needed to claim?

Tohsaka Rin

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #164 on: May 26, 2010, 10:48:30 PM »
"Tea, sir?"

Sasarai looked up from his papers and nodded.

"I suppose it would be nice to have a drink when it begins."

Day 1 Votecount

Alice (4): Cyril, Quietrain, Metroid, Glen, Snowfire, Ciato, Metroid
Carthrat (1): Snowfire, Taishyr, Taishyr, Metroid, Snowfire, Cyril, Snowfire, Zenny, Metroid
Glen (5): Ciato, Snowfire, Xanth, Yoshiken, Kilga, Carthrat, Taitoro
Taishyr (0): Taishyr, Quietrain, Metroid
Xanth (0): Xanth, Metroid, Taishyr
Ciato (0): Zenny, Quietrain
MC (2): Kilga, Carthrat, Alice, Glen, Roukanken, Alice
Kilga (0): Taishyr, Yoshiken
Zenny (0): Taishyr, Kilga, Roukanken
Yoshiken (0): Cyril, Ciato
Snowfire (0): Ciato, Alice
Noyn (0): Excal, Excal, Metroid
Excal (0): Snowfire

Not Voting: Noyn

There are 13 alive, so 7 votes are needed to lynch.

There are twelve minutes remaining in the day.


Metroid, please ##UNVOTE before voting! I counted your vote this time but it makes it easier, so please keep it in mind for future reference.

Taishyr

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #165 on: May 26, 2010, 10:50:51 PM »
Glen: Logic being that scum have no reason to rush and try to alter the lynch one way or another for a town, but may want to play up a scum lynch train one way or another.

Doing a quick Alice reread, I had been satisfied with a skim but I really shouldn't have been. Holding mods to the soft deadline since I wanna finish that at least.

NINJA: Decent point by MC. Though... knowing there's no killing roles acting N0, why bother? Cop, other possible minor influential roles one way or another, but there's not any reason to muddy things up for one, and for two some roles may directly help clear or benefit LaggyGlen, so... mmm. Actually I think I can see why that'd not be used N0.

Carthrat

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #166 on: May 26, 2010, 10:51:11 PM »
Current votecount seems agreeable to me, unable to really go through things on a significant level right now. I am unable to really process a case on Alice at the moment (and the people on it seem to have trouble really identifying issues with him I can easily understand anyway) and prefer the Glen lynch.
WHAT BENEFITS CAN ONE GET FROM SCIENTOLOGY?

Kilgamayan

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #167 on: May 26, 2010, 10:52:02 PM »
If I had that role I wouldn't have used it N0 either, It's more likely to hit a town power than a scum power on a numbers level alone.


[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Glen Veil

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #168 on: May 26, 2010, 10:54:07 PM »
Anyways, time to claim, FE7 Mathew, my power is each night I can convince one person they owe me a favor, and prevent them from targeting me with a night action.  Laggy did not use this power n0.

I...what?  Okay, scratch what I said about feeling uncomfortable on a Glen lynch.  Why would you not use this power night 0?  I mean, why not use it night 0, just so that someone else could confirm your power if you needed to claim?

Can't be positive since I'm not laggy, but I assume he felt like potentially blocking a cop from discovering his alignment is a bad tradeoff for the offshot of actually targeting a scum that targeted him back.  My honest impression of the ability is that getting good use out of it would require the luck of the lottery.

Ninjad and explained, posting anyways, and @ Tai, I guess that kind of makes sense? eh, don't follow 100% though.

Taishyr

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #169 on: May 26, 2010, 11:00:07 PM »
kkkkch garrrrgh. Decision time, toro, so I need to make up my mind

why can't someone just pull a goddamn middleman and help me figure this out

mrgh. Okay, rereading, not as pleased with Alice but also not seeing him as villainous, nrgh also not seeing Glen now that I've done this reread because his issues have been reasonable.

We have the soft deadline guys, can I convince people to move to Yoshiken please? I will start the move. We need four, if Glen/Xanth are willing to move + one more.

##UNVOTE: Laggy/Glen
##VOTE: Yoshiken


I hope I am correct on this, but I cannot on my reread currently place either Alice or Glen as all that scummy

Excal

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #170 on: May 26, 2010, 11:04:40 PM »
Alright folks.  I have returned.  And with my return we have extra hours.

Kefka and Luca are now officially getting bored, and as soon as meaningful discussion (or entertainment, as they define it, not you) ceases for 15 minutes, day ends.

Proper vote count as soon as I get mine updated.

Kilgamayan

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #171 on: May 26, 2010, 11:06:17 PM »
I would need to read Yoshi over again in order to feel like I could properly vote for him, and I'm currently preoccupied so it will have to wait, sorry.


[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

metroid composite

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #172 on: May 26, 2010, 11:09:28 PM »
I am unable to really process a case on Alice at the moment (and the people on it seem to have trouble really identifying issues with him I can easily understand anyway)

Okay, having just done a thorough reread of Alice...can anybody point to something of Alice's they feel is good content?  Because I can't.  Alice's actual attacks are...

"mc is reportery"--Alice was what...the fifth person to say this?  How original, and risky!
"SnowFire doing X"--where X is not what SnowFire did.
And some comments on people he doesn't vote for, like "Glen is bad, but just a completely clueless noob" (not really seeing the noobishness).

Okay, seems like there's a last minute push to Yoshiken; will review.

Xanth

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« Reply #173 on: May 26, 2010, 11:12:22 PM »
Still distracted and still re-reading.

A little uncomfortable without back up on the move as we're currently in Hatbot realms and my move would put Alice out in front, which is rather defeatist.

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Re: DL Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #174 on: May 26, 2010, 11:14:20 PM »
kchmm. Yeah, the move would require people to agree on it which doesn't sound like it's going to happen, so I need to decide between Alice and Glen, give me a minute.