WoT again, hopefully my final one.
Right, actually, you know what? Doesn't quite matter if Kilga agrees with the summary, it's how I read Laggy. Then, with that in mind, let's reboil my Xanth case down. I apologize again for resummarizing (and probably rewriting history on some accounts here, though I'll try to explain or avoid rewriting whenever possible); will wade through my page 10/11 posts and attempt to clarify/summarize. Hopefully this will both give him something coherent to respond to (I hope this ends up coherent) and I can remain coherent myself when he does.
Xanth, don't get upset or anything, this is mainly just explanation/expository, though responding if you want, sure.
* The basic part was contained
here - the attack on Laggy over QR seemed faulty.
* And my followup to his justification
here is
here. I still stand by my comment here - the lurkering that Alice tends to specialize in is what Laggy was prodding for here, and forcing some content instead of a breeze day 1 may turn out to be a boon to us. (At the least, I think this entire argument will ensure no one forgets about Alice and his lurking habits during this game.)
* Finally,
this final paragraph was me beginning to wonder precisely why the meta/cherry picking accusation on Laggy was being so pressed - it was probably at this point that I realized that while Laggy had the examples of multiple scum/lurk meta to back up, it was Xanth choosing just Chthulu Mafia to try and disprove it that rankled. Hence the mountain/molehill comment. (I can't confirm this is what happened 100%. I am toro, I don't have the greatest of memory spans right now. Mafia's fun as a result. But I'm pretty sure that was the logic process.)
Amusingly, Xanth's the first one to accuse -me- of reducing -his- argument to meta cherry picking
here. My reply above just says I'm still not satisfied with his case on Laggy, so... uh, okay? I think this was where my mood went sour, as I certainly didn't -feel- like my case was simply meta cherry picking - and he should've known that, he had been responding to me.
* I then posted my analysis
here, the one that seems to have launched all this. His response:
here. Perhaps it'd help if I gave a serious, if brief, summary to your own bullet points?
** Well, that and I neglected to add the ignoring QR thing to the mix, but basically, no, you didn't directly counter his argument. If you did, there could be no confusion here, but there is - you simply provided a counterexample. But this isn't science where one counterexample can ruin a while theory, it's closer to statistics.
**
I bluntly disagree: you both cherry-picked meta. Happy? He chose the ones that supported his case (a large amount.) You chose one or two that didn't. This is more along the lines of correlation, attempting to "prove his meta wrong" with one or two could not reasonably happen - it just shows a chance. But the odds were still far on his side, and so was the meta as a result. This is what I've been trying to get at recently.
** Addressed this earlier - "pot, kettle, black" wasn't a reference to you/Laggy but you/me, wasn't meant offensively, and yeah, I think you badly took Laggy's words out of context of the case he was trying to make.
** This is the sort of thing you've called people on in previous games (hi, C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER) - leaving room to slip out of a stance. Sorry, but hey. I still don't object to pointing it out. Does it mean 100% scum on your end? No. Is it another thing I was watching for? Sure.
** Nah, that all makes sense. Not blaming anyone for not switching to Yoshiken. Again, I've got a lot of crow to eat for events there.
** I suck at boiling down stuff, I think is evident now? Apologies for the confusion. But honestly you've done nothing to make me regret pushing this case.
*
This and Xanth's civil reply
here - I'm just going to ever so kindly point out that you in your reply state "In fairness, in my rush at the time I did not answer the third of those," early on, and then proceed to hammer me for not mentioning part of my own case when we've been trading jabs back and forth constantly. The case is kinda known on both sides, I would think. To abandon a part of the case without stating so is not in my intent, but to attack me over what you yourself have done is rather hypocritical. As for the rest of it, well, I think you can read my summary of how I read Laggy - mayhaps that'll reduce the confusion over these points? Part of me is just wondering how you aren't seeing it, though, but. I don't know.
Put very simply, Xanth? If you're not scum, convince me that someone else is. At this point I think I've flushed my own anger out of my system, and I'm willing to listen to and parse your cases. Because perhaps the most damning thing to me, throughout this case?
I THINK YOU'RE SMARTER THAN I AM. This is why this behavior confuses the crap out of me. Attempting to influence me with emotions (since that honestly feels like what's been going on (another partial pot-kettle moment, though I haven't done anger at all)), the inconsistency (because yeah, I think that calling some of this inconsistent is a fair summary) and the brutal misreadings of Laggy - since that's what they seem to me - seem so goddamn unlike you that I have to think at this point that you pressed the case on Laggy to get an easier lynch. If you aren't scum, help us find scum. When you're on your game I know you're better at it than I can be by leagues. But right now I don't have any other person I suspect higher, due to what I've seen in game thus far. Deal?
Going to go reread Zenthor and the activity floating around him.
