Diplomacy: Fall 1903 (Ends: Feb 4th 12:00AM EST)

[Excal]

Alright folks, it is started.  First post will always be updated to have the current information for you.

Conversation amongst the players can be done in any manner.  However, for orders, they are to be sent to the unbiased moderator, Luther Lansfield.  We will have three days (72h) for talking, one day (24h) for sending in orders, and then the orders will all be made public and the board updated.  Then we will start again.

EDIT: There will be separate negotiation and orders phases.  Orders do not need to be in before negotiations end.  And there is to be no talking about game plans between players when it is not negotiation phase.

Orders must be done semi-formally, so identify unit by type and location, specify what action that unit is taking, and then specify where it is going, or which unit it is supporting/convoying.  The one order which does not require specifics is a land unit that is being convoyed.  So long as there is a valid string of ships with valid convoy orders, it's move command will be accepted.

Players:
1. Excal - Austria-Hungary
2. Snowfire - France
3. Sir Alex - Russia
4. Andrew - Turkey
5. Carthrat - England
6. Mage  - Germany

Negotiations Ends February 4th, 12:00AM EST

State of the Board.

[SnowFire]

For the record, can you clarify the rules you're using for Italy?  (I'd also be fine with continuing to wait for a 7th, FWIW.)  Will Italy spam Hold orders?  Spam defensive support orders?  Get make-up moves submitted by a 3rd party?

[Ranmilia]

As per Excal in IRC, Italy will always submit hold orders, and when one of their units is forced out, it is instantly disbanded instead of retreating (and never rebuilt).

[Excal]

Yeah, what Alex said.  It is what is recommended in the rule book for a six player game.

[Carthrat]

[Excal]

Alright folks, it is now orders time.

Please give a big thanks to Ciato for being willing to be our neutral order taker.

[Luther Lansfeld]

Believe I have received orders from everyone. I can post now if you want?

[Ranmilia]

By all means!  I brought this up on IRC a couple of times, but I don't see much of a need for a separate orders phase for internet games (as well as "don't negotiate then!" being impossible to enforce).  Might be more clear to just have an orders deadline for each season?  (and say the latest set of valid orders received pre-deadline will be followed, in case of changes)  That's how the other internet games I've read have done things.

[Luther Lansfeld]

Sir Alex – Russia
St. Petersburg Fleet moves to Gulf of Bothnia
Warsaw army moves to Galicia
Moscow army moves to Ukraine
Sevastopol fleet moves to Rumania

Carthrat – England
Army Liverpool - Move - Yorkshire
Fleet Edinburgh - Move - Norwegian Sea
Fleet London - Move - North Sea

AndrewRogue - Turkey
A Constantinople-Bulgaria
F Ankara-Constantinople
A Smyrna Holds

Excal - Austria-Hungary
Army Vienna - Hold
Army Budapest - Move to Serbia
Navy Trieste - Move to Albania

Snowfire - France
A Par-Bur
A Mar-Spa
F Bre-MAO

Magetastic - Germany
F Kiel-Holland
A Berlin-Kiel
A Munich-Ruhr

[Excal]

Alright folks, Fall starts.  Remember, you need to be holding your new supply centres at the end of this round in order to take them.  And, we're going to try Alex's suggestion of just having the orders be in by the end of the three days.

[SnowFire]

From page 5 of the same newspaper:

[Luther Lansfeld]

Fall 1901

Sir Alex - Russia
F Bothnia->Sweden
F Rumania->Black Sea
A Ukraine->Rumania
A Galicia->Budapest

Magetastica - Germany
A: Kiel to Denmark
F: Supporting A from Yorkshire into Belgium
A: Ruhr to Munich

Snowfire - France
F MAO-Spa(sc)
A Spa-Por
A Bur-Bel

AndrewRogue - Turkey
F Constantinople - Black Sea
A Smyrna - Armenia
A Bulgaria - Greece

Carthrat - England
Fleet Norwegian Sea - Move - Norway
Fleet North Sea - Convoy - Belgium
Army Yorkshire - Move - Belgium

Excal - Austria-Hungary
Army Vienna - Move to Budapest
Navy Albania - Move to Greece
Army Serbia - Support (Navy - Albania -> Greece)

[Ranmilia]

Carthrat - England
Fleet Norwegian Sea - Move - Norway
Fleet North Sea - Convoy - Belgium
Army Yorkshire - Move - Belgium

Just to point out for everyone's future reference, convoy orders to fleets need to specify the exact army and convoy path being used.  No harm done here though since there's only one obviously valid option.

[Luther Lansfeld]

Excal - Austria-Hungary
New Army in Budapest
New Navy in Triest

Magetastica - Germany
Berlin: A
Kiel: A

Snowfire - France
F Bre
A Par

AndrewRogue - Turkey
Fleet Ankara

Carthrat - England
Build Army Edinburgh
Build Fleet London

Sir Alex - Russia
Army Sevastopol
Army Warsaw

[Luther Lansfeld]

Magetastica - Germany
A: Munich supporting A Bel to Bur
A: Ber to Silesia
A: Kiel to Ber

Carthrat - England
Fleet North Sea - Support - Fleet London Move English Channel
Fleet London - Move - English Channel
Fleet Norway - Move - Sweden
Army Belgium - Move - Burgundy
Army Edinburgh - Move - Yorkshire

Excal - Austria-Hungary
Army Vienna Move to Galicia
Army Budapest Hold
Army Serbia Support (Navy Rumania -> Bulgaria)
Navy Greece Move to Aegean Sea
Navy Trieste Move to Albania

AndrewRogue - Turkey
A Bulgaria Hold
F Constantinople - Smyrna
F Ankara - Constantinople
A Armenia - Ankara

Snowfire - France
F Spa (sc) - MAO
A Por - Spa
F Bre - Eng
A Bur - Ruh
A Par - Pic

SirAlex - Russia
F Rumania -> Black Sea
F Sweden -> Norway
A Sevastopol -> Rumania
A Galicia -> Bohemia
A Ukraine -> Galicia
A Warsaw Support A Ukraine -> Galicia

[SnowFire]

Nitpicky whiny comment per chat & Sopko desires: Can the state of the board be posted after every moveset, rather than replacing the old one?  Arrows would be even better, but simply comparing two maps works too.  We'll just have a lot of maps.

Also, no need for Luther Lansfeld to do this in her first post, but an annotated moves should probably be added eventually.

Magetastica - Germany
A: Munich supporting A Bel to Bur
A: Ber to Silesia
A: Kiel to Ber
A Den: No move received
F Hol: No move received

Carthrat - England
Fleet North Sea - Support - Fleet London Move English Channel
Fleet London - Move - English Channel
Fleet Norway - Move - Sweden (*bounce* 1:1)
Army Belgium - Move - Burgundy
Army Edinburgh - Move - Yorkshire

Excal - Austria-Hungary
Army Vienna Move to Galicia (*bounce* 1:2)
Army Budapest Hold
Army Serbia Support (Navy Rumania -> Bulgaria) (invalid)
Navy Greece Move to Aegean Sea
Navy Trieste Move to Albania

AndrewRogue - Turkey
A Bulgaria Hold
F Constantinople - Smyrna
F Ankara - Constantinople
A Armenia - Ankara

Snowfire - France
F Spain (south coast) - Middle Atlantic Ocean
A Portugal - Spain
F Brest - English Channel (*bounce* 1:2)
A Burgundy - Ruhr
A Paris - Picardy

SirAlex - Russia
F Rumania -> Black Sea
F Sweden -> Norway (*bounce* 1:1)
A Sevastopol -> Rumania
A Galicia -> Bohemia
A Ukraine -> Galicia
A Warsaw Support A Ukraine -> Galicia

[Carthrat]

*why*

[Luther Lansfeld]

Snowfire - France
F Brest - English Channel
F Middle Atlantic Ocean S F Brest - English Channel
A Spain - Gascony
A Ruhr - Belgium
A Picardy S A Ruhr - Belgium

Sir Alex - Russia
F Sweden -> Norway
A Warsaw SUPPORT A Galicia Hold
A Bohemia -> Vienna
A Galicia SUPPORT A Bohemia -> Vienna
A Rumania -> Budapest
F Black Sea SUPPORT A Rumania Hold

Carthrat - England
Fleet Norway Move St. Petersburg
Fleet North Sea Move Norway
Army Burgundy Move Belgium
Fleet Eng. Channel Hold
Army Yorkshire Hold

AndrewRogue - Turkey
F Smyrna-Aegean Sea
F Constantinople Support (F Smyrna-Aegean Sea)
A Bulgaria-Greece
A Ankara Hold

Excal - Austria-Hungary
Army Vienna Support Army Budapest
Army Budapest Support Army Vienna
Army Serbia Move Rumania
Navy Albania Move Triest
Navy Aegean Move Bulgaria

Magetastica - Germany
F supports A Bur->Bel
A Ber->Kiel
A Mun->Tyr
A Sil->Mun

[SnowFire]

I'm going to assume that's supposed to be F Holland S English A Bur - Bel?  There isn't any other German fleet.  Not to be a hardass, but again, for future reference, not specifying exactly or specifying wrong = illegal move, hold order assigned.  There are situations where illegal orders are intentionally submitted, especially when supporting allies, so it's not always clear.  And the nature of the game makes "fixing" orders after they're seen impossible (if someone really WANTED the move to fail but wants to claim to their ally it was a mistake, what are they supposed to say when given an opportunity to 'fix' it?)

While we're nitpicking, this is a lot more minor, but F Aegean - Bulgaria should TECHNICALLY specify Bulgaria (south coast).  It's the only legal option though, so no big deal.  It'd only really matter with Spain.  (Coasts are also shenanigans.)

Also, there's a retreats phase which happens immediately, so retreats are needed from England & Austria for F Eng & A Vie.  You can't retreat to spaces that were just attacked from, have another army there, or there was a bounce in this turn.  EDIT: So actually I think Vienna is annihilated?  Don't see any valid retreats for it.

Anyway, w/ annotations assuming the German order is processed as F Hol:

Snowfire - France
F Brest - English Channel
F Middle Atlantic Ocean S F Brest - English Channel
A Spain - Gascony
A Ruhr - Belgium (*bounce* 2:2)
A Picardy S A Ruhr - Belgium

Sir Alex - Russia
F Sweden -> Norway (*bounce* 1:1)
A Warsaw SUPPORT A Galicia Hold
A Bohemia -> Vienna
A Galicia SUPPORT A Bohemia -> Vienna
A Rumania -> Budapest (*bounce*, 1:1)
F Black Sea SUPPORT A Rumania Hold (*invalid*)

Carthrat - England
Fleet Norway Move St. Petersburg [assumed nc]
Fleet North Sea Move Norway (*bounce* 1:1)
Army Burgundy Move Belgium (*bounce* 2:2)
Fleet Eng. Channel Hold (*dislodged*)
Army Yorkshire Hold

AndrewRogue - Turkey
F Smyrna-Aegean Sea
F Constantinople Support (F Smyrna-Aegean Sea)
A Bulgaria-Greece
A Ankara Hold

Excal - Austria-Hungary
Army Vienna Support Army Budapest (*dislodged*, 1:2, annihilated)
Army Budapest Support Army Vienna (*support cut*)
Army Serbia Move Rumania (*bounce* 1:1)
Navy Albania Move Triest
Navy Aegean Move Bulgaria [Assumed sc]

Magetastica - Germany
F supports A Bur->Bel [Assumed F Hol S A Bur->Bel]
A Ber->Kiel
A Mun->Tyr
A Sil->Mun
A Den (H, no orders received)

[Ranmilia]

Sir Alex - Russia
F Black Sea SUPPORT A Rumania Hold (*invalid*)

This, however, should be a valid order?  As long as Rumania didn't move successfully for some reason, which it didn't, the support hold should be active and Rumania would not be dislodged if it was attacked by 2 strength.  At least by my understanding of the rules?

[SnowFire]

Well, per above, it's valid to give an invalid order, but nope.  Supports to hold an army that tries to move don't do anything.

On the bright side, A Ser - Rum also doesn't stop A Rum - Bud from cutting the support, so there's that.  (But A Bud - Rum, A Ser S A Bud - Rum would have taken Rumania, yes.)

Also, on second thought, I don't think Excal has any retreats after all?  Both Trieste & Tyrolia got cut-off so I think A Vienna just gets annihilated.  That'd mean only Rat has retreats / Winter builds.

[Carthrat]

Hmm. It's clearly not an issue in this retreat/build phase, but how is it resolved if two units retreat into the same province, given that it is a legal action for both?

[Luther Lansfeld]

Carthrat - England
Fleet channel retreat Wales
Build fleet London

[SnowFire]

Hmm. It's clearly not an issue in this retreat/build phase, but how is it resolved if two units retreat into the same province, given that it is a legal action for both?

Both are annihilated. 

In Internet Diplomacy I've played before, it's usually etiquette to just post your retreat in a public place like the thread since it rarely matters what others do, but when there are multiple retreats in the same area such that this is a possibility, that's a rare time where people will send retreats to the GM, then the GM will post them simultaneously.

[Luther Lansfeld]

I have still not received all of the orders! Please send them!