The RPG Duelling League
RPG Debate => RPGDL Discussion => Topic started by: Jo'ou Ranbu on August 23, 2008, 05:46:09 AM
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Godlike
Myria (BoFs) vs Jecht (FFX)
Rubicant (FF4) vs Emelious de Pamela (G3)
Melfice (G2) vs Xorn (G3)
Nate Nanjo (Pers) vs Jade (BoF1)
Heavy
Red (Saga) vs Lazlo (S4)
Emeralda Kasim (XG) vs T260G (Saga)
Ayla (CT) vs Cliff Fittir (SO3)
Garnet Til Alexandros (FF9) vs Ike (FE9)
Middle
Menardi (GS) vs Legault (FE7)
Yangus (DQ8) vs Ulf (G3)
Bartholomew Fatima (XG) vs Jean (BoF2)
Jade Curtiss (TotA) vs Haschel (LoD)
Light
Zoah (CC) vs Mustadio Bunanza (FFT)
Lucied (WAs) vs Yukimaru (Dis2)
Red Wizard (FF1) vs Jun (VP1)
Nina Wyndia (BoF3) vs Relm Arrowny (FF6)
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Myria (BoFs) vs Jecht (FFX) - Um, insert lol here.
Red (Saga) vs Lazlo (S4) - Burn, Lazlo.
Emeralda Kasim (XG) vs T260G (Saga) - Menial.
Ayla (CT) vs Cliff Fittir (SO3) - 3HKOs first.
Bartholomew Fatima (XG) vs Jean (BoF2) - Death. Yawn.
Zoah (CC) vs Mustadio Bunanza (FFT) - Mustadio.
Red Wizard (FF1) vs Jun (VP1) - This match fails. Kneejerking against Ruse on non-WW these days anyhow.
Nina Wyndia (BoF3) vs Relm Arrowny (FF6) - Nina3.
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Godlike
Myria (BoFs) vs Jecht (FFX)- Myria
Rubicant (FF4) vs Emelious de Pamela (G3)- Emelious. Not bad, but Emelious can take 1 hit, and speed+damage
Melfice (G2) vs Xorn (G3)- Xorn
Nate Nanjo (Pers) vs Jade (BoF1)- Nate. Hee hee.
Heavy
Red (Saga) vs Lazlo (S4)- Red
Emeralda Kasim (XG) vs T260G (Saga)- T260G
Ayla (CT) vs Cliff Fittir (SO3)- Ayla. Bitch got lucky (Since I think she's a pretty bad Heavy) that Cliff won for some arcane reason. She probably barely pulls this off depending on her physical after Cliff hits that MP, I think.
Middle
Menardi (GS) vs Legault (FE7)- Pain.
Yangus (DQ8) vs Ulf (G3)- Ulf. Yangus' ID...probably tied to evadable physicals.
Bartholomew Fatima (XG) vs Jean (BoF2)- Jean
Jade Curtiss (TotA) vs Haschel (LoD)- Haschel. Faster, Dragoon for tanking and such, I think.
Light
Zoah (CC) vs Mustadio Bunanza (FFT)- oah
Lucied (WAs) vs Yukimaru (Dis2)- Lucied. WA 3 form (the best one!) crushes Yukimaru so easily.
Red Wizard (FF1) vs Jun (VP1)- Blar, I don't really allow RW many spells...but Jun isn't good to start with.
Nina Wyndia (BoF3) vs Relm Arrowny (FF6)- Relm. Lightning res to the rescue
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Godlike
Myria (BoFs) vs Jecht (FFX)
The durability gap is rather insane here.
Heavy
Red (Saga) vs Lazlo (S4)
Emeralda Kasim (XG) vs T260G (Saga)
And the damage gap here is...well, not insane, but more than enough.
Ayla (CT) vs Cliff Fittir (SO3)
This one's trickier. Going gut, could easily change.
Middle
Jade Curtiss (TotA) vs Haschel (LoD)
As much as Jade was my MVP in-game, he's no great shakes in the DL. Especially against somebody with no elemental weakness and an ID weapon.
Light
Zoah (CC) vs Mustadio Bunanza (FFT)
Unless Zoah's evade is better than I'm remembering, how does he not get Don't Do Anything'd?.
Lucied (WAs) vs Yukimaru (Dis2)
WA1 and 2 forms are nothing special.
Nina Wyndia (BoF3) vs Relm Arrowny (FF6)
Nina's damage kills her before it kills Relm.
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Zoah (CC) vs Mustadio Bunanza (FFT)
Unless Zoah's evade is better than I'm remembering, how does he not get Don't Do Anything'd?.
Arm Aim is epic failure in a duel. Turn two status that lasts two turns is just awful. And Mustadio's offense certainly ain't helping either.
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Godlike
Myria (BoFs) vs Jecht (FFX)
Rubicant (FF4) vs Emelious de Pamela (G3)- 2HKO. Doubt Emo can blitz through Rubi's HP in time.
Melfice (G2) vs Xorn (G3)- The good news is he evades the worst of Xorn's physicals! Uh yeah.
Nate Nanjo (Pers) vs Jade (BoF1)- Horrible slaughter.
Heavy
Red (Saga) vs Lazlo (S4)
Emeralda Kasim (XG) vs T260G (Saga)
Middle
Menardi (GS) vs Legault (FE7)- Menardi is dogshit.
Yangus (DQ8) vs Ulf (G3)
Bartholomew Fatima (XG) vs Jean (BoF2)
Jade Curtiss (TotA) vs Haschel (LoD)
Light
Zoah (CC) vs Mustadio Bunanza (FFT)- Offense.
Lucied (WAs) vs Yukimaru (Dis2)- Zam>Horrible bosses.
Red Wizard (FF1) vs Jun (VP1)- Status.
Nina Wyndia (BoF3) vs Relm Arrowny (FF6)- Nina.
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Godlike
Myria (BoFs) vs Jecht (FFX): Jecht vs. a High Godlike.
Rubicant (FF4) vs Emelious de Pamela (G3): Emelious offsets Rubicant's damage edge with better speed...oh wait, that means he just gets countered more, advantage Rubicant!
Melfice (G2) vs Xorn (G3): Xorn is Melfice+.
Nate Nanjo (Pers) vs Jade (BoF1): Spoil'd, I think.
Heavy
Red (Saga) vs Lazlo (S4): Don't think even the ST form would take this?
Emeralda Kasim (XG) vs T260G (Saga): So we get the inevitable Re-Al vs. Cosmic Rave battle next week <_<?
Ayla (CT) vs Cliff Fittir (SO3): Just to add to what Snow said, even if you see 2 Cliff actions + 2 Triple Kicks from Ayla running her out of MP, Cliff STILL needs to survive Ayla's 3rd turn (whatever she has MP for, if its not a physical) which further complicates things for Cliff.
Garnet Til Alexandros (FF9) vs Ike (FE9): Garnet goes first, and avoids the double. As such, she should be able to outrace Ike's damage with a status blitz, be it Mini, Blind or Odin.
Middle
Menardi (GS) vs Legault (FE7): Good to see Menardi losing matches <_<?
Yangus (DQ8) vs Ulf (G3): Don't think Yangus has really anything he can use to win this.
Bartholomew Fatima (XG) vs Jean (BoF2): Death.
Jade Curtiss (TotA) vs Haschel (LoD): Jade's big damage move is lightning! ...that'll go over well against Haschel.
Light
Zoah (CC) vs Mustadio Bunanza (FFT): May Zoah succeed where Sneff failed.
Lucied (WAs) vs Yukimaru (Dis2): when in doubt, vote against Lucied <_<?
Red Wizard (FF1) vs Jun (VP1): Think Red Wizard can play defensively enough to stop Jun, and Jun's killer turn wasn't too special anyway.
Nina Wyndia (BoF3) vs Relm Arrowny (FF6): Relm resists all of Nina's noteworthy damage, making her the better slugger (...), and she crushes Nina on durability (as a fun reminder, Relm is *NOT* Frail in the slightest, despite what you may think.)
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Godlike
Myria (BoFs) vs Jecht (FFX)
Rubicant (FF4) vs Emelious de Pamela (G3)- More damage I think
Melfice (G2) vs Xorn (G3)- Faster, and can dispel Melfice's buffs
Nate Nanjo (Pers) vs Jade (BoF1)
Heavy
Red (Saga) vs Lazlo (S4)
Emeralda Kasim (XG) vs T260G (Saga)
Ayla (CT) vs Cliff Fittir (SO3)- Cliff doesn't like using HP for attacking
Garnet Til Alexandros (FF9) vs Ike (FE9)- Protect, heal, and status
Middle
Menardi (GS) vs Legault (FE7)- Doesn't get doubled, ID
Yangus (DQ8) vs Ulf (G3)- Shadow Warrior
Bartholomew Fatima (XG) vs Jean (BoF2)
Jade Curtiss (TotA) vs Haschel (LoD)
Light
Zoah (CC) vs Mustadio Bunanza (FFT)
Lucied (WAs) vs Yukimaru (Dis2)
Red Wizard (FF1) vs Jun (VP1)
Nina Wyndia (BoF3) vs Relm Arrowny (FF6)
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Heavy
Ayla (CT) vs Cliff Fittir (SO3)- The only way Cliff loses any substantial HP through battle skill HP cost is if he's cancel comboing ... and if he's cancel comboing Aerial Assault he's over killing Ayla. Especially to those that allow Berserk. Without cancels Aerial Assault on weak only costs 80 HP. Killing themselves/losing battles through their HP skill costs generally isn't something powerhouse SO3 characters have to worry about anyway. Maybe more so for Cliff than those with healing (Nel/Peppita) but eh.
Granted I may have overhyped Cliff's MP damage a little (hey for write ups I have to sell my character!) Stat topic makes his 99 Fury MP damage look bad in the averages >.> However it is overpowered when he gets it game and gets respect from SO3 players overall cause it can kill enemies in one hit. To them who cares if Maria/Peppita/Adray/Nel do more MP damage overall through more hits when they enemy is already dead <.< On the other hand basic X MP damages in the stat topic have him listed as 4th for MP damage which isn't so bad =D Cliff also has higher HP than Ayla (Cliff is game best, Ayla isn't) so I'm not sure her base physical is going to kill him before he MP kills her :p
Yes this is the only match I can really vote on this week >.>
Edit - I'm kind of confused about the CT stat topic. For Ayla it says -
*80% damage from Fire attacks
Does this mean she takes 80% more damage from Fire attacks or does 80% more damage with Fire attacks? *forgets* >.> If the former then time for some Hammer of Might/Fiery Tackle abuse. On the other hand the stat topic also brought the Iron Fist to my attention - for those that see that as legit it's 50% chaos rate will make Cliff cry. Chaos is evil for SO3 characters, both in giving and receiving.
Good match =D
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IIRC, she takes 80% the normal amount from Fire. So Fiery Tackle/Hammer of Might are -bad- ideas.
For me, it's quite a good match; I've no clue how I'll vote on it, need to do some thinking.
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Godlike
Myria (BoFs) vs Jecht (FFX)- Ha. Ha. Ha.
Rubicant (FF4) vs Emelious de Pamela (G3)- Rubicant really isn't half bad in Godlike. I've always undersold him I guess.
Melfice (G2) vs Xorn (G3)- Hilarious mismatch.
Nate Nanjo (Pers) vs Jade (BoF1)- Go Jade!
Heavy
Red (Saga) vs Lazlo (S4)- Immune to death in Alkaiser. I don't allow Red to switch in battle to Alkaiser but I am fine with him starting with it.
Emeralda Kasim (XG) vs T260G (Saga)- Awww, Emmy. ;_;
Ayla (CT) vs Cliff Fittir (SO3)- Very close but Cliff MP damage just isn't enough to impress, I'm afraid.
Garnet Til Alexandros (FF9) vs Ike (FE9)- Pretty much the anti-Ike.
Middle
Menardi (GS) vs Legault (FE7)- Go Legault!
Yangus (DQ8) vs Ulf (G3)- This ain't close.
Bartholomew Fatima (XG) vs Jean (BoF2)- Finally, Jean gets his day in the sun. Deaaath.
Jade Curtiss (TotA) vs Haschel (LoD)- Go J- okay, I don't give a fuck who wins this one.
Light
Zoah (CC) vs Mustadio Bunanza (FFT)- Mustadio is just bad.
Lucied (WAs) vs Yukimaru (Dis2)
Red Wizard (FF1) vs Jun (VP1)- I allow RW all his spells. Jun isn't really great at all.
Nina Wyndia (BoF3) vs Relm Arrowny (FF6)- ;_; Stupid lightning resist.
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Ayla (CT) vs Cliff Fittir (SO3)- The only way Cliff loses any substantial HP through battle skill HP cost is if he's cancel comboing
I should note that if you factor in HP loses for battle skills, it should then send the damage average down a fair amount.
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Godlike
Myria (BoFs) vs Jecht (FFX) - Myria. Pretty funny match actually.
Rubicant (FF4) vs Emelious de Pamela (G3) - Rubicant. He burned the rope and saved us all. Now he's a hero.
Melfice (G2) vs Xorn (G3) - Xorn.
Nate Nanjo (Pers) vs Jade (BoF1) - Nate Nanjo. Cock block'd... wait, I mean spoil'd. No JadeXMyria hyping! Damn you fanfiction writers!
Heavy
Red (Saga) vs Lazlo (S4) - Red.
Emeralda Kasim (XG) vs T260G (Saga) - T260G. God I hate typing that name.
Ayla (CT) vs Cliff Fittir (SO3) - Ayla. Kneejerk, Ayla's durable enough to offset the speed difference I think? There IS a speed difference, right? I can't be assed to check the CT stat topic right now, if Ayla's not slow then even better for her.
EDIT: Looked it up, she's not slow, match to Ayla.
Garnet Til Alexandros (FF9) vs Ike (FE9) - Garnet. I was thinking Ike could off her before she could secure her victory, but all the Garnet hype is making me double think that.
EDIT: Um, after looking at the stat topics to confirm the hype, I'm pretty convinced Ike wins this. Ever-so-slightly faster, 2HKOs given her frailty, and what turn 1 status does she have, Blind? That buys her another turn, and she certainly doesn't OHKO.
Middle
Menardi (GS) vs Legault (FE7) - Menardi. Former Godlike Champion. One of the few people to beat Myria as well!
Yangus (DQ8) vs Ulf (G3) - Ulf. If I'm not mistaken. Way to blow it, Yangy.
Bartholomew Fatima (XG) vs Jean (BoF2) - Jean. God damnit, someone throw a boss his way please. This is becoming sickening.
Jade Curtiss (TotA) vs Haschel (LoD) - Jade. Oh great, Jean makes the upgrade pool and possibly champs if Menardi doesn't make the finals.
Light
Zoah (CC) vs Mustadio Bunanza (FFT) - Mustadio.
Lucied (WAs) vs Yukimaru (Dis2) - Yukimaru. Yukimaru in Light still doesn't make sense to me.
Red Wizard (FF1) vs Jun (VP1) - Red Wizard. Or: Red Wiz.
Nina Wyndia (BoF3) vs Relm Arrowny (FF6) - Relm Arrowny.
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Ayla (CT) vs Cliff Fittir (SO3)
Garnet Til Alexandros (FF9) vs Ike (FE9): Unless FF9 status all hits evasion like Garland's Stop vs. Tana? Blind should buy her enough time, since she goes first and isn't doubled.
Menardi (GS) vs Legault (FE7): Goes first, isn't doubled, 3HKOs against someone with lowish damage. Don't think Killing Edge crits would be quite enough fast enough here.
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EDIT: Um, after looking at the stat topics to confirm the hype, I'm pretty convinced Ike wins this. Ever-so-slightly faster, 2HKOs given her frailty, and what turn 1 status does she have, Blind? That buys her another turn, and she certainly doesn't OHKO.
For starters, FE characters aren't faster than above average speed people in the initiative sense. So, Ike isn't faster than Garnet. Second, FF9 Blind is pretty badass, and buying Garnet another turn is all she needs once it connects, since, you know, now Ike effectively 4HKOs. She can even cast Protect to stave the 2HKO off the bat anyway and buy another turn. But this is all entirely moot considering Ike doesn't go first: Garnet gets two turns to win with Mini.
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Maybe he takes the speed as the actual speed stat? >_>
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... uh, he could. But that's so counterintuitive and so not what FE's speed stat does. Forgot about that.
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There's also Ike's Evade/Chance of Aether/critting to throw in the mix of probabilities.
Godlike
Myria (BoFs) vs Jecht (FFX): The obvious match of the week.
Rubicant (FF4) vs Emelious de Pamela (G3): Rubi has to go after the Orb first or eat the perfect evasion. That means Emo gets a lot of turns to hurt Rubi.
Melfice (G2) vs Xorn (G3): Faster, hits harder, more durable...
Heavy
Red (Saga) vs Lazlo (S4): Maybe if Everlasting Mercy healed Lazlo?
Emeralda Kasim (XG) vs T260G (Saga): Boomdyada.
Ayla (CT) vs Cliff Fittir (SO3): Pretty straightforward "3HKO first"
Garnet Til Alexandros (FF9) vs Ike (FE9): Garnet wants to win this through something like MHP gravity -> Ark for the 2HKO. I don't view CTB speed as affecting FE doubles anymore, so not sure how that goes down with the evade/chance of Aether/crit.
Middle
Yangus (DQ8) vs Ulf (G3): Perfect evade or go first and 2HKO.
Bartholomew Fatima (XG) vs Jean (BoF2): Death.
Jade Curtiss (TotA) vs Haschel (LoD): Goes first and 2HKOs probably works. INDIGNATION THOUGH wait.
Light
Zoah (CC) vs Mustadio Bunanza (FFT): Musty in a duel.
Lucied (WAs) vs Yukimaru (Dis2): WA3 form hype... sure.
Red Wizard (FF1) vs Jun (VP1): Ruse or something.
Nina Wyndia (BoF3) vs Relm Arrowny (FF6): Resists elements? Works for me.
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Ugh, this is (one of) the reason(s) why I hate FE in the DL. I avoid "Ok, everyone's the same speed!" as much as possible, and in that FE8 arena mode thing, unless I'm remembering wrong, who ever had the highest speed always hit first no matter who launched the attack, so I've always taken AS/Speed as initiative. If I'm remembering wrong, then uh, guess he's screwed.
Do we allow FE people to counter attack moves like Blind/Mini? If so, he has a little hope since if he's attacking twice/three times per turn he's bound to hit her twice before turn 3. Bah, whatever, I abstain for now.
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FE characters can't counter status spells in-game. And, in all the FEs I played, the person who gets the initiative in an attack is always the one who initiates it outside of skills like Vantage/Ambush, and I've heard nothing that shows FE9 working otherwise (think that'd get mentioned by the game's players if it did, since it's a notable change that would immediately call some attention).
EDIT: Only exception I know being in FE4's Battle Arena, but Battle Arena mechanics are -not- a good sample of how to interpret FE mechanics as a whole, and considering that initiative belongs to the one who initiates the attack regardless of speed elsewhere... yeah.
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Godlike
Myria (BoFs) vs Jecht (FFX) - ...well damn. Tyr takes this, I guess. The Best loses. ;_;
Rubicant (FF4) vs Emelious de Pamela (G3) - Emelious. Multiple parts helps a lot, as does the better speed. Also, Flash. Glare hits evade in-game of the magic variety, so it should here as well. That...yeah. Rubicante faces his death here.
Melfice (G2) vs Xorn (G3) - ...wow. Xorn. Damn good, but having Death Knell helps, as does Despair. Also, better speed than Songi >_>
Nate Nanjo (Pers) vs Jade (BoF1) - NATE. GO SPEED RACER! ...go get killed next week >_>
Heavy
Red (Saga) vs Lazlo (S4) - Lazlo. Red guards ID, but...yeah. ST form just nukes when it needs to. Red's HP are average to me (see endgame HP around 750-800 or so), and...the healing from Alkaiser helps, but...I think he' still on edge? It's a good fight I need to think about.
Emeralda Kasim (XG) vs T260G (Saga) - ...Robot whore.
Ayla (CT) vs Cliff Fittir (SO3) - ...wow. Ok! Cliff can deal good enough MP damage...he's actually probably better than it looks, since I think Adray's multipliers on Spicule are off. So above average MP damage, likely. Guess it depends on how you take damages, in the end. If you just assume straight attacks off X blows, he probably Infinity Kicks and eliminates HP loss enough to run Ayla out of MP...granted, the threat of a critical from her ultimate weapon is dangerous, and she is fast...and she can even do the Confuse thing...looks like Ayla's fight overall, but...yeah, looks like hers.
Garnet Til Alexandros (FF9) vs Ike (FE9) - Ike. Aether after Aether wins this. Thanks God for his SSBB form.
Middle
Menardi (GS) vs Legault (FE7) - Menardi. Fast enough for this easily. Her magic doesn't miss in-game either.
Yangus (DQ8) vs Ulf (G3) - Ulf. To be fair, I don't know if I'd see some of Yangus' stuff missing, but...eh, works. Ulf needs that upgrade.
Bartholomew Fatima (XG) vs Jean (BoF2) - ...God fucking damnit. Well...uh...Jean sucks. Get back to Light and start losing so you're interesting again.
Jade Curtiss (TotA) vs Haschel (LoD) - ...huh. Jade does solid enough damage here, but risks getting nuked with the Destroyer Mace. Don't think he can get around that here.
Light
Zoah (CC) vs Mustadio Bunanza (FFT) - ZOAH.
Lucied (WAs) vs Yukimaru (Dis2) - Yukimaru, I guess. Need more WA1o boss notes, I think.
Red Wizard (FF1) vs Jun (VP1) - ...ugh. Red Wizard, I guess. ARGH.
Nina Wyndia (BoF3) vs Relm Arrowny (FF6) - Relm. FF6 Easy Type form for Heavy. Also, Control and Sketch.
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Lucied (WAs) vs Yukimaru (Dis2) - Yukimaru, I guess. Need more WA1o boss notes, I think.
If you allow form choosing (which I think you do), Lucied 3 probably beats Yukimaru pretty handily. Lucied 3 is a physical tank on top of good HP, and Yukimaru and her SP can't really overcome the draining.
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Red (Saga) vs Lazlo (S4) - Lazlo. Red guards ID, but...yeah. ST form just nukes when it needs to. Red's HP are average to me (see endgame HP around 750-800 or so), and...the healing from Alkaiser helps, but...I think he' still on edge? It's a good fight I need to think about.
Re-Al 2HKOs Lazlo. It's a very high 2HKO, defense won't save him there.
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Re FE Initiative: Good to hear that people aren't really using Speed that much, though slightly surprised. A variant that I'm surprised no one has mentioned yet - use Move + Weapon Range for initiative. It's certainly what would decide initiative in a FE vs. FE duel (imagine a long corridor; keep moving slightly out of that other person's range until you back them into a corner), and it might be fair to use that in general anyway. It gives a nice boost to aerial units and cavalry, who are awesome in game for this reason, and rightly punishes some of the slow footmen who generally have problems getting to the battle in time. Also, non-moving bosses have a functional Move of 0, so their "last strike" disadvantage works with using movement as initiative pretty well.
Of course, this doesn't help Ike much, since he's probably below average move anyway, what with the large number of mounted/aerial units you get in FE9 and the paucity of Knight/Generals.
The thing that throws me is that while I agree that Speed isn't a good indicator of initiative in FE, people still seem to be willing to allow turn-based speed to work not just for initiative, but also double-turns. Nash will never ever double turn Ghaleon in game, and turn-based speed buffs like Saner don't magically give you more actions, so it's slightly weird that the prevailing interpretation in the DL is that they do. I'll admit that this change is interesting in some ways and avoids weird situations like Ramza outspeeding Piastol, but it's definitely not something keeping to in-game mechanics.
On a less serious FE note...
Garnet Til Alexandros (FF9) vs Ike (FE9) - Ike. Aether after Aether wins this. Thanks God for his SSBB form.
I'm going to assume this is humor, but Ike's Aether in SSBB doesn't restore his HP nor halve enemy defense, and is also telegraphed from a mile away, so yeah, that's not a winning strategy. Great Aether would work, of course, but a Smash Ball isn't coming out until 2 minutes into the match or so, so that's a no go. More generally, Ike isn't particularly evasive in SSBB, and SSBB mini hits the entire screen anyway, so this is good news for Garnet's attempts to Mini Ike. And a blinded Ike (you can't see the screen?) who already has bad recovery trying to jump back on? Garnet gets to actually KO someone with her racket attack, since Ike ignominiously falls off despite the low damage.
Then there's the fact that in the world of SSBB, you probably have to take Eidolon summoning animations literally. Yeah. Don't mess with Garnet in Brawl.
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I only use threat range (move + attack) as a tiebreak for FE personally, though yeah, if you really hate everyone being average speed, I'd definitely use this. In which case Ike is... still pretty average, he has a threat range of 9 in a cast that ranges from 7 to 11. Thinking that, if anything, more are on the higher end, though - laguz, any paladin/flyer beat him, and any infantry with a ranged weapon matches him, leaving only mages, armours, and infantry using melee that he beats.
Godlike
Myria (BoFs) vs Jecht (FFX): Hahaha.
Rubicant (FF4) vs Emelious de Pamela (G3): Scorch just hurts a bit too much, here.
Melfice (G2) vs Xorn (G3): Mismatch.
Heavy
Ayla (CT) vs Cliff Fittir (SO3): 3HKOs first.
Garnet Til Alexandros (FF9) vs Ike (FE9): Ike could win this if he doubles (but only +3.8 speed makes me think he won't...) and if he 2HKOs, and if Garnet can't get through that with Blind and/or Protect. I guess high Aether respect could tilt this in Ike's favour provided you also see Ike doubling, but yeah I do not fall into a high Aether respect camp at all.
Middle
Yangus (DQ8) vs Ulf (G3): Ulf smash.
Bartholomew Fatima (XG) vs Jean (BoF2): Yay, Death!
Jade Curtiss (TotA) vs Haschel (LoD): Faster, 2HKOs.
Light
Zoah (CC) vs Mustadio Bunanza (FFT): Snipe is horrible.
Red Wizard (FF1) vs Jun (VP1): 3HKOs first.
Nina Wyndia (BoF3) vs Relm Arrowny (FF6): Elemental walling.
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I use move/range for Disgaea, never really considered it for FE until now since it technically has a speed stat that doesn't just amount to evasion, but yeah, if FE speed doesn't mean shit for initiative then I guess move/range it is.
And as for Ike's SSBB form, Aether still hits pretty hard, plus his normal physical combo and forward smash are just devastating near-OHKO attacks. Also two minutes before access to Great Aether is way off, I'd say 30 seconds at most, which is still probably a bit too long unless he stalls with shield/rolling, but even then it's too risky for him.
Uh, not that it matters, but it's a fun argument...
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FE characters can't counter status spells in-game.
What is with this thing so many people seem to have about deferring status spells to only the effectively item-cast ones when FE (as a whole. Some individual games don't.) has pure and impure status spell weapons that are counterable given a weapon with sufficient range.
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FE characters can't counter status spells in-game.
What is with this thing so many people seem to have about deferring status spells to only the effectively item-cast ones when FE (as a whole. Some individual games don't.) has pure and impure status spell weapons that are counterable given a weapon with sufficient range.
Going by series is bad.
You can make all *sorts* of weird precedents with Final Fantasy games like that, just for starters.
If the games later made a design change, it means they wanted that design change for a reason. If a game lacks counterable status, there was a reason for it; If it has one, same thing. *Shrugs.*
As for "effectively item-cast", you can make that same spurious argument for all of FE's magic, so again...*Shrugs.* >_>
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Not having gotten around to playing FE10 yet I might be making a fool of myself, but that's not really any different from usual so whatever. As far as I'm aware, the relevant game in question does in fact have an impure status spell in Valaura, so it's not a matter of a mechanic from a different game in the series in this case.
One could argue not to carry that back to FE9 if they don't like to vote on FE10, or say it doesn't count because it's not a pure status spell, of course.
Nah, if all FE magic is itemcast then all weapon usage at all in it is itemcast since it's run off the same command. Actually I'd probably prefer it in-dl that way >_>
While I'm here...
Heavy
Garnet Til Alexandros (FF9) vs Ike (FE9) - Garnet, I'm currently thinking. How fortunate that I don't consider counters to exist so I'm not personally affected by my nattering.
Middle
Menardi (GS) vs Legault (FE7) - Menardi. Nowhere near sad enough boss for Legault to have a chance.
Bartholomew Fatima (XG) vs Jean (BoF2) - Dunno offhand. I think I'm gonna go in general with giving XG characters formchoice between foot or gear with corresponding averages et al for each, which kiiiiiinda goes against one of my precepts but on the other hand it's exactly the same way I currently allow formchoice between separate games, the major key being that I don't allow a foot character to get into their gear. In any case that means this currently boils down to whether or not I let an in-gear character get hit by instant death, which I dunno offhand.
Light
Red Wizard (FF1) vs Jun (VP1) - Don't remember Jun well enough offhand. I'll have to look him up at some point.
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Garnet Til Alexandros (FF9) vs Ike (FE9) - Ike. Aether after Aether wins this. Thanks God for his SSBB form.
I'm going to assume this is humor, but Ike's Aether in SSBB doesn't restore his HP nor halve enemy defense, and is also telegraphed from a mile away, so yeah, that's not a winning strategy. Great Aether would work, of course, but a Smash Ball isn't coming out until 2 minutes into the match or so, so that's a no go. More generally, Ike isn't particularly evasive in SSBB, and SSBB mini hits the entire screen anyway, so this is good news for Garnet's attempts to Mini Ike. And a blinded Ike (you can't see the screen?) who already has bad recovery trying to jump back on? Garnet gets to actually KO someone with her racket attack, since Ike ignominiously falls off despite the low damage.
Then there's the fact that in the world of SSBB, you probably have to take Eidolon summoning animations literally. Yeah. Don't mess with Garnet in Brawl.
Awesome, now I have a reason to not vote this week other than forgetting and being lazy. I can do it just to not associate myself in anyway with this even as a joke.
Edit - To clarify, while that is a good well reasoned response Snowfire, the fact that Smash even fucking comes up anything in DL voting even as a fucking joke is disgusting and sickening (RANK SNAKE HYPE NEEDS TO BURN ENDLESSLY IN HELL WHILE BEING RAPED WITH A NAILBAT).
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Yeah seriously, don't rank Snake, he's got terrible vote splitting from his multiple forms. His MGS1 form is like a High Heavy, his temp form in MGS2 is like Low Middle, his guest form in MGS2 has gotta be a Godlike, his SSBB form translates to about a High Middle I think, and I don't even know about his MGS 4 form.
Rank Meta Knight instead.
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Rank Waddle-Dee. Obvious choice from SSBB.
-Djinn
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You miss the part where he was ranked in the RPGP. By public vote. This was a very very bad thing. Snake is DL relevant.
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Searching RPGP brought up "The Religion, Politics and Globalization Program | at UC Berkeley". So yes, if Waddle Dee or Meta Knight were ranked there, that could be a problem. Meta Knight's extreme leftism makes it hard to hold a conversation with him, and Waddle Dee's rabid devotion to religion makes him easy to offend.
In short, what's the RPGP? (Also Snake gains more HP as his game advances, hence leveling up, therefore it's an RPG. Rank Snake)
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The RPGP (RPG Playoffs) is where this whole Duelling League thing came from. Same general idea, different people (and much less of them - two or three, instead of our cast of thousands) running the show. They shut down, we picked up the concept and started a new site around it.
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(Also Snake gains more HP as his game advances, hence leveling up, therefore it's an RPG. Rank Snake)
Funny thing, that was the exact reasoning people gave for why MGS was an RPG there as well.
RPGP was fairly large part of the site history, so yeah.
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Dante gains maximum health as the game goes on and learns new techniques from points gained through killing enemies. RANK DEVIL MAY CRY.
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[blatant Gwendolyn fanboyism]RANK ODIN SPHERE [/blatant Gwendolyn fanboyism]
Anywho. Voting Ike. I oversold Garnet's durability by a bit.
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(Also Snake gains more HP as his game advances, hence leveling up, therefore it's an RPG. Rank Snake)
Snake is strong with his massive Hp, OHKO damage and his powerful blink status that happens whenever he is hit but he has nothing on gray fox. You know Gray Fox the one who has immunity to all attacks but punchs and kicks.
While I was joking there I'm wondering, doesn't Snake have a rpgish appearance in acid? Okay there are certain spoilers (Play the second one and you'll know) but hey its somewhat valid.
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Searching RPGP brought up "The Religion, Politics and Globalization Program | at UC Berkeley". So yes, if Waddle Dee or Meta Knight were ranked there, that could be a problem. Meta Knight's extreme leftism makes it hard to hold a conversation with him, and Waddle Dee's rabid devotion to religion makes him easy to offend.
In short, what's the RPGP? (Also Snake gains more HP as his game advances, hence leveling up, therefore it's an RPG. Rank Snake)
http://rpgdl.com/RPGPLog/Log.html
It's under the DL's records category. Some good reading, some :psyduck: rankings and matches.
Snake discussion is horribly off topic.
Still wondering what's up with some FF9 status spells apparently hitting MDef and others hitting evade, unless it's just a weird Garland thing.
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I think they all hit evade, in-game. Well, FF9 Evade is more of a status resistance stat since I don't think any of the ordinary attack spells check it, but it still works.
Also: In the absence of evade, a healthy number (most?) take the attack as smacking into evade from other games. This is admittedly a huge gray area but as long as you are consistent about how you take things you should be fine.
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There's a magic evade stat in FF9 that exists almost only specifically to check status resistance, yeah.
EDIT: The big thing on Ike vs. Garnet seems to be the whole "she goes first and isn't OHKOed" thing. Since the evade (Ike evade was just modest, from stat topic recollection?) probably reduces turn one status to turn two, she thanks the heavens for getting a second shot at it. If this was the likes of Eirika or Tana, though, this would be a different song. But then, Eirika and Tana just one-turn Garnet if she doesn't cast Protect, and gets 2HKOed if she does. >_>
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Hehe. That is funny; didn't know Snake was ranked. Actually, I guess I did see the RPGP once - I remember Snake vs. Terra, which I assumed was at GameFAQs or something. One of the rare matches where Snake clearly loses even given concealment, thanks to Merton/Ultima hype. (Snake vs. Celes? Celes Vanishes... Snake puts on Thermal Goggles and snipes her out anyway.) I see some familiar commenters poo-poohing Snake in the comments... (though DarkHolyElf apparently hypes Jet as having an instant death attack? Maybe he was referring to someone else...)
Rozalia: Snake HP hype?! Since we're already in the realm of "it makes sense to me," Snake is either average HP (take cast averages seriously) or pathetic OHKO bait (semi-realistic character vs. wholly unrealistic characters). Of course, Snake's HP doesn't matter that much, as his dueling worth ENTIRELY depends on whether you see the arena as a mostly empty dueling ground, or some kind of messy facility or jungle with plenty of places to hide.
I will say that as far as not-really-RPG characters who might be fun in Not Ranked... Super Metroid's Samus. She's got a smidge more than average PC HP (PCHP + Reserve Tanks), and arguably her power suit gives her ridiculous defense that quarters most incoming damage (not if you average defense too, but Samus does feel very "tanky" in game). She's got a beam attack that is arguably ITD (wave goes through walls? Though the ITD would be factored into damage averages and actually be a liability against low-defense people) and optionally ice elemental, and can be charged. She also has a Xorn-like Death Knell lite game by dropping Super Bombs to set up big damage two turns or so later (followed by a bevy of Super Missiles or Charged Shots). Plus, she gets one shot of full healing from the super-bomb healing trick if she doesn't already have a super bomb out. Probably Low Godlike; not a fast blitzer and status bait, but a good tank.
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For Garnet to not be one-turned by Ike you have to let normal speed be a factor in FE doubling calculations, which Pyro has stopped doing in favor of seeing everyone as average FE speed (and more people should do.)
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I don't think the argument is that Ike can't one-turn her at this point, I'm pretty sure it's "She blinds him on turn 1, so she gets enough time to Protect/Mini". Which the more I think about it, the more I disagree with. She blinds him on turn 1, he only hits her once, she can survive one more hit. Next turn she can protect, which means she can take two hits, he hits her once, she fails to mini next turn, one of his two attacks hit her again, she dies. Or she can just go for Mini on turn 2 and skip the protect, but then she fails to Mini and he kills her anyway. Unless you see ~50% status as hitting on the first attempt.
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No doubles = no one-turning, and that still seems a rather common argument to me. Presumably he does 2HKO, yeah (he does about 45 per shot to average, and Garnet is... kinda frailish, especially if you factor in HP+10 for the fighters).
For Garnet to not be one-turned by Ike you have to let normal speed be a factor in FE doubling calculations, which Pyro has stopped doing in favor of seeing everyone as average FE speed (and more people should do.)
You could also view the threshold as 4 instead of 3.5, since Ike is only +3.8 from average.
But anyway, I strongly disagree with making everyone else average speed for doubling. This grossly exaggerates the difference between +3.5 and +3.4 average speed in the DL (or +4 and +3.9 if that's how you roll). Use -something- to represent that sliding scale, and speed seems the most logical. You could also use evade I suppose (since evade is directly tied to AS and all).
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Also of note, Garnet is opting for defense in this fight. She's not maximing damage, so she's going for Robe of Lords, which is plus 5 defense. She doesn't need MDef, so she'd opt for Adaman Hat which gives her another 3. If you factor in crits/effects that go off before turn 3 with a 50% threshold, two normal Ike attacks don't even take her out.
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Well that just doesn't seem fair in the least. Don't let Fire Emblem people use their AS/Speed for initiative, only doubling, but let their opponents use their speed for both initiative and preventing doubling. If Fire Emblem speed isn't initiative-related, it's essentially a different stat with the same name, and thus a stat not in most other games. And what do we do to a cast that doesn't have a certain stat? Make them all average for that stat. So yeah, Ike going second but doubling Garnet makes sense to me.
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Don't let Fire Emblem people use their AS/Speed for initiative, only doubling
AS is already a very powerful stat, and has no effect on initiative in-game.
let their opponents use their speed for both initiative and preventing doubling.
The opponent needs SOMETHING to check against doubling, or you get that large problem with 3.4 vs. 3.5 I talked about. Doesn't that bother you at all?
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The opponent needs SOMETHING to check against doubling, or you get that large problem with 3.4 vs. 3.5 I talked about. Doesn't that bother you at all?
Not particularly. Seems to make more sense than just saying "Let's screw over all the FE characters". AS doesn't effect initiative in-game because there is no initiative in-game. Player goes first and moves the units in whatever order they want. Likewise, FF9 speed doesn't prevent double-acting because there is no double acting or AS stat in FF9. I just can't understand why it's alright to give FF9 speed an effect it never had in-game, but not alright to do the same for FE speed.
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The main reason I object to giving FE speed that extra effect is because it's better suited to attack range, the stat that actually affects who attacks first in FE. If not for that I'd be pretty okay with FE speed affecting initiative.
I -really- object to treating all other casts as average FE speed for reasons I've already laid out, and find the lack of caring about this from some people just baffling. Fractions of a point should not have that effect on a dueller's overall performance (individual fights, sure, that's expected). It makes Ike himself go from near Middle to near Godlike, depending on whether you consider 3.8 good enough. Just blah.
Incidentally, if you give both FE and FF9 each other's effects on speed, doesn't Garnet win?
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No, unless I've forgotten in the two or three days since I looked at the stat topics, Ike's just a smidge higher than his game's average speed (percentage-wise) than Garnet, thus he goes first, doesn't double, she blinds him, he misses his next attack, she misses her Mini casting, he fries her on his third turn. Unless you don't see Ike 2HKOing her, then she wins, but hell, she wins under any speed interp if you don't see Ike 2HKOing her.
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Elf: Question for you and others who see a non-FE character's speed effecting whether they get doubled by an FE character or not.
Do you also allow a non-FE character who is significantly faster then an FE opponent to FE-double the FE character?
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From my recollection, Elfboy does. So do I.
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To be honest, it seems like it makes most sense to have FE AS check evade in other games, since... AS affects an FE's character's evade a hell of a lot more than their CTB speed (which is not at all).
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From my recollection, Elfboy does. So do I.
So you see a fast non-FE character as being able to CTB double AND FE-double a slower FE character? Or do you throw out the CTB doubling vs FE and just have any doubling that goes on being FE style?
To give an example, would you see turn order for Jude vs Oswin going:
Jude(gets 2 actions because Oswin gets FE-doubled), Oswin, Jude(2 actions), Jude(2 actions)?
or just
Jude(2 actions), Oswin, Jude(2 actions), Oswin, Jude(2 actions), Oswin, etc, etc?
Myself, I can't agree with letting fast non-FE characters get CTB doubles AND FE-doubles. That's doublecrediting thier speed to a point where it's just silly.
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[Seems to make more sense than just saying "Let's screw over all the FE characters".
If a consistent logical interpretation screws over a cast then it sucks to be the cast, not the fault of the interpretation.
FE does have initiative effects, player turns have it. FE beats tie breaks against average speed, in all other ways they are all average.
Edit - I see you there extra page and I mock you in your general direction. Point still stands about to bad, so sad if a cast gets screwed over by DL format.
Edit 2 -
No, unless I've forgotten in the two or three days since I looked at the stat topics, Ike's just a smidge higher than his game's average speed (percentage-wise) than Garnet, thus he goes first, doesn't double, she blinds him, he misses his next attack, she misses her Mini casting, he fries her on his third turn. Unless you don't see Ike 2HKOing her, then she wins, but hell, she wins under any speed interp if you don't see Ike 2HKOing her.
She heals there, doesn't go for mini straight away. If she was going to try that there is no reason to cast blind. If you see her not getting killed on Ikes turn she Minis on turns he misses and heals on turns he hits.
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My logic concludes that giving FF9's speed stat an ability it never had doesn't make sense, therefore I'm not going to let it stop Ike from doubling.
She heals there, doesn't go for mini straight away. If she was going to try that there is no reason to cast blind. If you see her not getting killed on Ikes turn she Minis on turns he misses and heals on turns he hits.
Oh right, totally forgot healing there. But then again, Ike either crits or Aethers (which one depends on your speed interp) at some point if she gives Ike another turn, and she's not outliving either one.
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Gate: That's precisely the cause behind the whole "non-FE characters are average FE speed" trend. The two speeds were so incompatible that treating it as the same stat lead to just completely bizarre results like that. Forcing speed to act as CTB speed, or shoving CTB speed into FE's system, were both non-options as alternatives, so the next logical treatment was considering FE speed a completely different stat from initiative speed (and thus, characters that don't use that speed are average in it, the same way FE and other characters that lack initiative speed). It's not a perfect solution, because Elfboy is absolutely right. Something like, say Rennac always doubling while Ephraim never does is jsut completely weird (Eph is something like 3.2 points above average, Rennac is... 3.9? 4.1? Just barely makes it) and inflates one while completley ignoring that 3 above average speed means Ephraim doubles on a very regular basis. Just... well, it's a simpler system that's easier to work with and is still less completely bizarre than other potential interps. Also has the benefit of symmetry, but that's neither here nor there.
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You could always just go by who was consistently doubling in game, but I think interps that don't involve averages are usually frowned on, so meh.
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There's also the option of taking PC doubling against enemy average AS, and then putting the resulting damage into the damage average (you should probably do the last part ANYWAY).
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Rozalia: Snake HP hype?! Since we're already in the realm of "it makes sense to me," Snake is either average HP (take cast averages seriously) or pathetic OHKO bait (semi-realistic character vs. wholly unrealistic characters). Of course, Snake's HP doesn't matter that much, as his dueling worth ENTIRELY depends on whether you see the arena as a mostly empty dueling ground, or some kind of messy facility or jungle with plenty of places to hide.
Snake is above average due to the existance of meryl who has what, half his hp? Also Snake....semi realistic? This man can survive giant mecha stomping on him, gunfire, missles, guard armies, lasers even. To top things off he restores even the most fatal of wounds with simple RATIONS! Very much like rpg characters who after getting hit by a fatal blow simply potion it away. It is very much clear that Snake is an rpg character stuck in a action game.
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So then MGS1 Snake is 2xPCHP, and since rations are exclusive to him, he has healing. Not to mention some of his heavier artillery is just overkill compared to temp Meryl's damage, not to mention some invisibility. Godlike? I'm surprised, it's actually better than his Guest form in MGS2 with the 1.25xPCHP and game-best damage.
Oh god, I've gotta stop, I'm so close to doing MGS stat topics.
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You can all go die now. (Also scaling against temps = no. Item healing is also no, uniqueness doesn't matter there.)
There's also the option of taking PC doubling against enemy average AS, and then putting the resulting damage into the damage average (you should probably do the last part ANYWAY).
That's fair, although friendly reminder that if you do that, you also have to scale durability to account for who is doubled. Pretty much makes FE into a less damaging, more durable cast. Do that if you want, but I find it a bit weird personally. I don't really have a problem with it, though.
Oh right, totally forgot healing there. But then again, Ike either crits or Aethers (which one depends on your speed interp) at some point if she gives Ike another turn, and she's not outliving either one.
Ike attack
Garnet Blind
Ike attack
Garnet heal
Ike attack
Garnet Mini
Ike attack (miss)
Garnet Mini
He hits her twice, Aether sure as heck isn't turn 2, and his crit rate is laughable. Granted, I don't think that strategy is such a great idea, and I'd opt for Protect instead myself, since it can't miss, and doesn't rely on Ike missing. Only lasts two turns, but oddly, that's good enough here. Makes Aether less mockable as an argument, granted, for all that I still wouldn't see it activating in time.
Bleh to the fact that Ike apparently only wins in the single most favourable speed interp for him, and the one I furthermore find the least fair.
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That's fair, although friendly reminder that if you do that, you also have to scale durability to account for who is doubled. Pretty much makes FE into a less damaging, more durable cast. Do that if you want, but I find it a bit weird personally. I don't really have a problem with it, though.
Oh right, yeah, HP is halved for people who are doubled, of course. Don't really find it all that weird myself. Double-acting seems more of a Assault Buster-like thing than taking against CTB speed. But eh. Still like the evade option better anyways.
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Aether is like ~25% chance, and I never said it's turn 2. It's turn 3 or 4.
But let me see if I can summarize:
-If you hold Garnet's speed against Ike's doubling and don't give him initiative, she smashes.
-If you hold Garnet's speed against Ike's doubling but give him initiative, headache, but Garnet seems to have the advantage.
-If you don't hold Garnet's speed against Ike's doubling and give him initiative, totally unfair Ike blowout.
-If you don't hold Garnet's speed against Ike's doubling but don't give him initiative, headache, but Ike seems to have the advantage.
Pick your poison.
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Re FF9 speed: Yeah, FF9 speed (like many ATB speeds) isn't as good as it seems due to wait-times and animations and the like. I'd use it for initiative, but would damp it way down for double turning, meaning Garnet is actually only mildly above average. Maybe Ike doubles after all, even holding doubles against FF9 speed? Interesting, I'd forgotten that.
Gatewalker: So you see a fast non-FE character as being able to CTB double AND FE-double a slower FE character? Or do you throw out the CTB doubling vs FE and just have any doubling that goes on being FE style?
Not aimed at me, but absolutely. Being slow in FE sucks and means you get doubled on any attacks, and being fast in a CT based system rules and gives you extra actions to double with. The downside is that doubling only works on physical attacks, at least to me. So Jude can double his physical against Oswin all the time, but it'll just tink anyway; not sure I'd let Jude double-Assault Buster Oswin constantly, as a lot of special moves become very strange if doubled. If it's a grey area on damage-inflicting skills, it's clearly black for anything else - status attacks don't get double chances against slow characters in-game, IIRC.
Rozalia, Re Meryl: Yeah, scaling against nigh-helpless guests is definitely a no-go (AtL4 cast is suddenly thrilled about Lillia bringing down the averages?), so Meryl is irrelevant and Raiden has the same HP as Snake (at least in 2). Also if you shoot Snake with a machine gun he tends to die pretty quickly, Snake vs. three guards with machine guns is a loss, while Cloud can take like a bazillion hits from three Shinra MPs who are a total joke.
If you absolutely had to have a consistent interpretation of Snake that was flavorful, he'd probably be vaguely Belial-like? You have to use "hit everything" damage to get him. He "uncloaks" three rounds or so in (so you have time to buff while Snake is hiding and sneaking up on you if you don't have MT), and once he fires once for big damage, if his opponent is still alive (no weak points?) then Snake gets pounded into dust. But yeah, Snake is not getting ranked, so academic.
Actually, another amusing headache would be Diablo from Diablo II. Great durability, but I think we'd have to assume competent control of the character, so he's got like a 15% chance to hit with any of his attacks. Totally owned by evade of any kind, Lyn would destroy him much like Bow Amazons do in-game, but a decent slugger against "large" bosses who can't evade well and are big targets.
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No, Guest Snake in MGS2 has 1.25 Raiden's HP. And Meryl is not a helpless guest, she mows down guards with you in that one scene early on.
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Aether - 24% chance of Normal Parasitic Healing, then a second hit that does damage based off Def/2 in place of a normal physical, 62 damage total, 27 Healing, Melee Only. Note that while the first hit is insured (given the order of checks), the second makes its own accuracy check.
Aether going off doesn't sound super threatening to me. Ike heals and then has to hit against evasion again for it to mean anything anyway.
This being a factor requires the odds playing in Ike's favour already anyway if you are assuming Blind strategy. If you assume Protect like NEB, the odds of it coming up increase, but the damage is also a hell of a lot more survivable since the Def/2 attack is still getting halved by Protect anyway and OH SHIT she might have to spend a bit more MP on healing that turn.
I am unconvinced.
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The downside is that doubling only works on physical attacks, at least to me. So Jude can double his physical against Oswin all the time, but it'll just tink anyway; not sure I'd let Jude double-Assault Buster Oswin constantly, as a lot of special moves become very strange if doubled. If it's a grey area on damage-inflicting skills, it's clearly black for anything else - status attacks don't get double chances against slow characters in-game, IIRC.
...you can double magic in FE just fine. Even the long-ranged magic attacks.
And status attacks ignore doubing, yes.
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Aether - 24% chance of Normal Parasitic Healing, then a second hit that does damage based off Def/2 in place of a normal physical, 62 damage total, 27 Healing, Melee Only. Note that while the first hit is insured (given the order of checks), the second makes its own accuracy check.
Aether going off doesn't sound super threatening to me. Ike heals and then has to hit against evasion again for it to mean anything anyway.
This being a factor requires the odds playing in Ike's favour already anyway if you are assuming Blind strategy. If you assume Protect like NEB, the odds of it coming up increase, but the damage is also a hell of a lot more survivable since the Def/2 attack is still getting halved by Protect anyway and OH SHIT she might have to spend a bit more MP on healing that turn.
I am unconvinced.
Hm, perhaps I have oversold Aether then. So she definitely wins unless you're allowing Ike two hits per turn, in which case it's subject to interpretation.
While we're throwing stuff out there, I know taking FE Hit literally is bad, so I'm not sure how to figure out his actual hit rate, but the raw stat is like 146 or something. So does that off-put Blind any? I assume 146 isn't as spectacular as it sounds, so probably not.
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Ike's hit is pretty much dead average. Above average skill offsets slightly below average Luck and slightly below average weapon accuracy. Might be 1 point above, I am too lazy to look it up.
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While we're throwing stuff out there, I know taking FE Hit literally is bad, so I'm not sure how to figure out his actual hit rate, but the raw stat is like 146 or something. So does that off-put Blind any? I assume 146 isn't as spectacular as it sounds, so probably not.
Average enemy Avo at endgame ranges from 42 to 48 depending on which you use. So 146 is barely above 100% or barely below it, and Blind's still going to be pretty effective either way.
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Rozalia, Re Meryl: Yeah, scaling against nigh-helpless guests is definitely a no-go (AtL4 cast is suddenly thrilled about Lillia bringing down the averages?), so Meryl is irrelevant and Raiden has the same HP as Snake (at least in 2). Also if you shoot Snake with a machine gun he tends to die pretty quickly, Snake vs. three guards with machine guns is a loss, while Cloud can take like a bazillion hits from three Shinra MPs who are a total joke.
If you absolutely had to have a consistent interpretation of Snake that was flavorful, he'd probably be vaguely Belial-like? You have to use "hit everything" damage to get him. He "uncloaks" three rounds or so in (so you have time to buff while Snake is hiding and sneaking up on you if you don't have MT), and once he fires once for big damage, if his opponent is still alive (no weak points?) then Snake gets pounded into dust. But yeah, Snake is not getting ranked, so academic.
Meryl isn't a helpless guest character, she simply isn't at the level of Snake and his godly Hp. I mean it runs in the family for Snake. Look at his Brother liquid for example. He survives being blown up in a mech, has a fist fight with Snake (Which is death to more or less everybody), falls off a giant mech and then has the mech callapse on him. Even after all that he still chases Snake and is shot countless times by a machine gun before a car crash happens and even then he still alive.
Also whats up with comparing late game enemies vs late game snake with late game Cloud vs beginning game enemies. Also I remember one point where Snake is stuck in a lift with cloaked enemies with guns and what happens? Snake beats the crap out of all of them easily.
Now if you want to go into gameplay then snake still easily wins. Hell he could survive late game Clouds Omnislash due to his blinking status that would make him immune to the rest of the slashs after the first one.
If he was an rpg character that is. Snake should never be ranke unless he is put in an rpg. Suddenly he is put in an rpg and its a best seller. Everyone cries.
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Godlike
Myria (BoFs) vs Jecht (FFX)- DURH.
Rubicant (FF4) vs Emelious de Pamela (G3)- Read above.
Melfice (G2) vs Xorn (G3)- Read above. x2
Nate Nanjo (Pers) vs Jade (BoF1)- Ugh. Now watch as Nate burns.
Heavy
Red (Saga) vs Lazlo (S4)- Lazlo in ST with a Wizard Rune effectively OVERKILLS any boss except the final boss, who's Rune Immune. Without, it's still probably a solid 600+ damage. If that doesn't work, Everlasting Mercy also does cure him now. S4 form burns.
Ayla (CT) vs Cliff Fittir (SO3)- Headache. Abstain.
Garnet Til Alexandros (FF9) vs Ike (FE9)- Low FE respect generally, and Garnet gets her buffs going in time I suppose.
Middle
Menardi (GS) vs Legault (FE7)- Godlike vs. FE. Seriously though, Menardi should get wins in Middle(To spoil Jean. PLEASE)
Yangus (DQ8) vs Ulf (G3)- ID?.....Works for me.
Bartholomew Fatima (XG) vs Jean (BoF2)- Read above.
Jade Curtiss (TotA) vs Haschel (LoD)- Why's Haschel in Middle again? He was pretty much best PC in my playthrough.....
Light
Zoah (CC) vs Mustadio Bunanza (FFT)- This. Is. Ungodly. Evil.
Lucied (WAs) vs Yukimaru (Dis2)- UPGRADE.
Red Wizard (FF1) vs Jun (VP1)- Kneejerk.
Nina Wyndia (BoF3) vs Relm Arrowny (FF6)- Not Relm. Even if it IS NINA THE 3RD.