The RPG Duelling League

RPG Debate => RPGDL Discussion => Topic started by: Monkeyfinger on October 18, 2008, 07:00:14 AM

Title: Season 46, Week 5: You sure this is the fake Zenon?
Post by: Monkeyfinger on October 18, 2008, 07:00:14 AM: Zenon (Dis2) vs. Empyrea (DQ8)

Millenia (G2) vs. Fenril (OB)

MOMO (XSs) vs. Zidane Tribal (FF9)

Chisato Madison (SO2) vs. Imoen (BGs)
Title: Re: Season 46, Week 5: You sure this is the fake Zenon?
Post by: Dhyerwolf on October 18, 2008, 07:07:57 AM: Zenon (Dis2) vs. Empyrea (DQ8)

Millenia (G2) vs. Fenril (OB)- WTF Fenril here?

MOMO (XSs) vs. Zidane Tribal (FF9)- Doom. Don't think the ID extract was horribly legal for XS.

Chisato Madison (SO2) vs. Imoen (BGs)
Title: Re: Season 46, Week 5: You sure this is the fake Zenon?
Post by: Monkeyfinger on October 18, 2008, 07:08:17 AM: Zenon (Dis2) vs. Empyrea (DQ8): 3HKOs with Giga Star, isn't 6HKOed back. Empyrea comes close to 3 rounding him but... not quite there to me.

Millenia (G2) vs. Fenril (OB): I think?

MOMO (XSs) vs. Zidane Tribal (FF9): I still allow stone/stop, so assuming MOMO doesn't have the blockers for this.

Chisato Madison (SO2) vs. Imoen (BGs): There are 3 general tactics Imoen can try and Chisato can respond to them all, IMO. To wit:

-Imoen "2HKOs" with Charm person. Chisato plain old 2HKOs with Rising Dragon. Charm's not fast, so if she goes for straight status blitz, Chisato is the first to get that second turn.
-Stoneskin only stops plain old physical damage. It doesn't affect Chisato at all, since she uses an elemental weapon in the DL. Try hitting a stoneskinned mage in game with the flail of ages and see what I'm talking about...
-Imoen can outrace Chisato with invisibility. This is the iffy one. Chisato has 10,000 volts, ~5500 AoE damage. The match would flow like this.

Imoen: Mislead
Chisato: 10,000 volts
Chisato: 10,000 volts
Imoen: Charm
Chisato: Rising Dragon
Imoen, if still alive: Charm, win

10k volts is less than half the strength of RD, 2 of them + 1 RD is like 80% PCHP by stat topic numbers. That... is enough to kill Imoen.
Title: Re: Season 46, Week 5: You sure this is the fake Zenon?
Post by: Dhyerwolf on October 18, 2008, 07:17:57 AM: I might agree on Flamethrower, but you have to specifically not see it as upgraded. It becomes horrid shit when it upgrades, and no choice and some such. You could assume she just never uses it in game, except it's a decent tech to have on, I think (Meaning it does eventually hit that upgrade point).
Title: Re: Season 46, Week 5: You sure this is the fake Zenon?
Post by: superaielman on October 18, 2008, 07:22:37 AM: Zenon (Dis2) vs. Empyrea (DQ8)- Zenon's not too tanky for me.

Millenia (G2) vs. Fenril (OB)- Gooo Geshp.

MOMO (XSs) vs. Zidane Tribal (FF9)- The XS1 Id blocker isn't legal. Thinking otherwise.

Chisato Madison (SO2) vs. Imoen (BGs)- Little less respect for Chisato's KMs. Better fight than I was expecting though.
Title: Re: Season 46, Week 5: You sure this is the fake Zenon?
Post by: Dark Holy Elf on October 18, 2008, 07:55:57 AM: MOMO (XSs) vs. Zidane Tribal (FF9): Doom respect not found.
Title: Re: Season 46, Week 5: You sure this is the fake Zenon?
Post by: Jo'ou Ranbu on October 18, 2008, 09:46:25 AM: Millenia (G2) vs. Fenril (OB) - SBE, stuff.

MOMO (XSs) vs. Zidane Tribal (FF9) - I'm not sure I respect Zidane even going first against MOMO. Otherwise, Doom respect non-existant.
Title: Re: Season 46, Week 5: You sure this is the fake Zenon?
Post by: Magic Fanatic on October 18, 2008, 04:41:30 PM: Zenon (Dis2) vs. Empyrea (DQ8) - This is... A really interesting Godlike finals. Two non-high Godlikes duking it out for the title.

Millenia (G2) vs. Fenril (OB)

MOMO (XSs) vs. Zidane Tribal (FF9) - No vote, but XS speed respect not found (mind, I have played the game a bit). MOMOs got a speed of 9 to an average of 8 between six or seven PCs? Yeah, I'm not sure I find that too remarkable.

Chisato Madison (SO2) vs. Imoen (BGs) - Can't vote, but can people also hype Chisato stunning Imoen off the high-hit count moves, like Tear Gas?
Title: Re: Season 46, Week 5: You sure this is the fake Zenon?
Post by: Jo'ou Ranbu on October 19, 2008, 01:38:41 AM: It's
Quote from: Magic Fanatic on October 18, 2008, 04:41:30 PM
MOMO (XSs) vs. Zidane Tribal (FF9) - No vote, but XS speed respect not found (mind, I have played the game a bit). MOMOs got a speed of 9 to an average of 8 between six or seven PCs? Yeah, I'm not sure I find that too remarkable.

Effectiveness in-game > raw numbers. MOMO, in-game is noticeably faster than other people, actually doubling things with a degree of regularity as well. XS speed is fairly linear, and Zidane's own speed, taken solely by numbers, is only 3% higher than MOMO's - because you see, FF9's speed average also has a failure spread. And considering FF9 speed is nearly irrelevant unless the speed differences are huge (which is -not- the case among PC averages), I don't think the speed respect kneejerk going against Zidane is terribly unjustified, considering which game had the better speed stat.
Title: Re: Season 46, Week 5: You sure this is the fake Zenon?
Post by: Monkeyfinger on October 19, 2008, 01:40:21 AM: Quote
Can't vote, but can people also hype Chisato stunning Imoen off the high-hit count moves, like Tear Gas?

Stun in SO2 is really unreliable. In a match this short, it's almost sure to never happen.
Title: Re: Season 46, Week 5: You sure this is the fake Zenon?
Post by: Pyro on October 19, 2008, 01:48:12 AM: Why does FF9 speed get mocked so much when FF6 speed is taken literally all the time? They have pretty similar issues... Granted I don't know if you could whore out the "open item/spell menu during your actions, don't when boss acts" cheese in FF9.

Zenon (Dis2) vs. Empyrea (DQ8): I'm kneejerking Zenon just wins in a physical slugfest. However, someone do tell if Empy's damage was ITD on her crit-like move.

Millenia (G2) vs. Fenril (OB): Spellbinding Eye. Good job, Millenia. Even if you had to rob some DQ4er to get here. (Not that this bothers me. At all)

MOMO (XSs) vs. Zidane Tribal (FF9): Unsure.
Title: Re: Season 46, Week 5: You sure this is the fake Zenon?
Post by: superaielman on October 19, 2008, 01:53:47 AM: It's ITD, all DQ crits are ITD.
Title: Re: Season 46, Week 5: You sure this is the fake Zenon?
Post by: Jo'ou Ranbu on October 19, 2008, 01:55:26 AM: I have no idea if Empy gets to crit, though.
Title: Re: Season 46, Week 5: You sure this is the fake Zenon?
Post by: Taishyr on October 19, 2008, 01:58:23 AM: Was Millenia below average speed? Not sure this matters, but it gets close due to how I interpret OB fighters.
Title: Re: Season 46, Week 5: You sure this is the fake Zenon?
Post by: OblivionKnight on October 19, 2008, 01:58:38 AM: Empyrea's special "Grabs Hold" attack is not ITD. It runs on a different formula than "Desperate Attacks", which are crits. All other desperate attacks are attack power * 0.9. Empyrea's got 400 some attack - a crit from her would deal 360 or so. Grabs Hold is just a stronger physical with a sexier animation. I think the multiplier was 1.25. Buff does help against it, though, unlike frue crits.
Title: Re: Season 46, Week 5: You sure this is the fake Zenon?
Post by: DjinnAndTonic on October 20, 2008, 03:03:30 AM: Quote from: Monkeyfinger on October 18, 2008, 07:08:17 AM
Zenon (Dis2) vs. Empyrea (DQ8): 3HKOs with Giga Star, isn't 6HKOed back. Empyrea comes close to 3 rounding him but... not quite there to me.

Millenia (G2) vs. Fenril (OB): I think?

MOMO (XSs) vs. Zidane Tribal (FF9): I still allow stone/stop, so assuming MOMO doesn't have the blockers for this.

Chisato Madison (SO2) vs. Imoen (BGs): There are 3 general tactics Imoen can try and Chisato can respond to them all, IMO.

Well, I'm convinced.

@Tai - Milllenia's quite sluggish actually, but I don't know of anything Fenril could do in the first turn to stop SBE?
Title: Re: Season 46, Week 5: You sure this is the fake Zenon?
Post by: Jo'ou Ranbu on October 20, 2008, 03:44:15 AM: Millenia is a tad below average speed. "Really slow" might not even apply to Mareg, G2's speed curve sorta fails.
Title: Re: Season 46, Week 5: You sure this is the fake Zenon?
Post by: DjinnAndTonic on October 20, 2008, 06:25:13 AM: I was thinking about how her Moves like SBE are slower than most of the other characters' (save Elena's) physical Moves. And of course, Magic is generally pretty slow in Grandia 2 (unless you're spamming Howl or something).

I can see the argument for 'everyone's about average' too...

-Djinn
Title: Re: Season 46, Week 5: You sure this is the fake Zenon?
Post by: Cmdr_King on October 20, 2008, 06:39:01 AM: ... huhwhaa? Aside from the insta-cast Cancel techs, charge times for spells and other techs were fairly indistinguishable at 5 stars...