The RPG Duelling League
Social Forums => General Chat => Topic started by: Hyper Inferno on January 09, 2009, 12:12:54 AM
-
So what kind of MMOs do people here play? I recently started playing SMT: Imagine, which is a pretty cool (free!) MMO set in the SMT world. It hit open beta recently, so you can download it quite easily.
http://megaten.aeriagames.com/
I also play a little bit of Phantasy Star Online, through a special server. Never really played it online back on the GCN (no modem), but on the PC, I finally get to use those darn Photon Drops!
No World of Warcraft for me though. Could never bring myself to that pay to play system.
-
I used to be really into MapleStory. Played it for two and a half years on Windia. Ended as a 129 Marksman. Mirage/Hubris/Leviathan guild (we changed names every year) the whole time. Was also in the top Zakum running/Horntail group on the server (hefferheffer's runs). Damage topped out at 11k per Strafe arrow (44k damage total) with Sharp Eyes and a Warrior Pot. ON JR. NEWTIES. Booya. I've topped 30k on a crit with Pierce on the last enemy. Guild imploded around October last year, so I haven't been back.
Currently playing Perfect World at the bequest of Laggy. Having a great time. Fun world to explore. 43 Archer atm. Much different than Maple, but just as fun.
-
Several people here play Billy vs Snakeman. Not a true MMO, it's a browser game with very little player-to-player interaction.
-
Several of us play WoW. I've been playing since it came out, in fact.
-
Yeah, a bunch of us are playing Perfect World right now. I tried the SMT:I MMO, but I just didn't like it. Although now having played a deal of DDS, maybe I might give it another go. Also, used to play PSO on my PC as well. Is in the original, or is it Universe? You said it was a special server? I used to play on one known as SCHThack, I believe. May be spelled wrong though, but it was for PSO:Blue Burst. It was fun.
I dunno, MMO's never really have been my thing. I've tried a few, but I find I get bored of them quickly. Maybe it's because I'm usually to shy to try and party up other peeps or trying to befriend peeps in the game?. I dunno. Perfect World still is fun for me though, so give it a go :)
List of MMO's I have tried:
Maple Story
WoW (Private Server only)
Ragnarok Online (Again, Private Server only)
SMT:I
PSO:BB
9Dragons
2Moons
Perfect World
Many different Player World's games (LAWL)
Grail
Risk Your Life (Open Beta)
Rose (Open Beta)
And probably many, many more that I don't remember :P
-
I play Kingdom of Loathing. It's not a proper MMO, and really the only character-to-character interaction comes through trade and clans, but fuck you.
-
Closest thing I've played to an MMO is some pure-text thing where you got to pick three fights per day against other users, but everything was automated. It was run through some GameFAQs board (possibly Board 8?) The goal was to end up the highest-level character at the end of the 2-3 week period (my character titled "Weakling Mage" was either first or second I think? Someone got higher than me, but there was some question of whether he'd fought an extra battle on the final day).
Though, personally MMOs aren't really my style for a few reasons:
1. I'm not a fan of enforced grinding. Granted, it's not like I never grind for fun--I've done it in...three or so games when I wanted to see the game from a different angle, but it's not -usually- my idea of fun.
2. In a PvP setting, I don't like the idea of handicapping inexperienced players; if anything it should be the other way around. I'll make an exception for that silly user tournament I mentioned above, where fights were entirely automated so the actual strategy became "do I fight someone higher level for a bigger exp bonus, or someone lower level for a guaranteed exp boost". However when I actually enjoy the fights themselves, I'd prefer to have a level playing field.
3. I'm afraid of the timesink. Not an issue with every MMO, granted, but I look at some of my coworkers who play 40 hours of WoW a week, and just have stopped playing all other games (to the point that they'll get a new system at launch, and then not even take it out of the box for months).
4. Some MMOs aren't exactly known for their maturity level; it's the internet--homophobia happens. Granted, I post on message boards, but I've already spent time finding intelligent message boards >_>.
Nothing wrong with the genre, really, just...not my cup of tea at this time. (Who knows? My taste in genres seems to shift every three years or so).
-
Closest thing I've played to an MMO is some pure-text thing where you got to pick three fights per day against other users, but everything was automated. It was run through some GameFAQs board (possibly Board 8?) The goal was to end up the highest-level character at the end of the 2-3 week period (my character titled "Weakling Mage" was either first or second I think? Someone got higher than me, but there was some question of whether he'd fought an extra battle on the final day).
Just for reference (for everyone) these things used to be called "Door games", here is the wiki on it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Door_games). Figured I would mention it since I only found out they had an actual name from their origin recently >_>
2. In a PvP setting, I don't like the idea of handicapping inexperienced players; if anything it should be the other way around. I'll make an exception for that silly user tournament I mentioned above, where fights were entirely automated so the actual strategy became "do I fight someone higher level for a bigger exp bonus, or someone lower level for a guaranteed exp boost". However when I actually enjoy the fights themselves, I'd prefer to have a level playing field.
Agreed, PVP is pretty much always horrible in MMOs. They are bigger epeen factories than the PVE scene even is and epeen is generally what keeps MMOs running, so you have a circular thing happening that leads to incredibly high demands on getting design and implementation perfect in an inherently unbalanced system.
3. I'm afraid of the timesink. Not an issue with every MMO, granted, but I look at some of my coworkers who play 40 hours of WoW a week, and just have stopped playing all other games (to the point that they'll get a new system at launch, and then not even take it out of the box for months).
All MMOs have the time sink. WoW is one of the lowest ones, it is seriously fucked up and something wrong with the genre. WoW HAS gotten better at it. It is a huge investment to get to the level cap in the new expansion, but once you are there and have yourself established there is thankfully much less demands on your time. Step in the right direction, but it is still pretty bad.
Nothing wrong with the genre, really, just...not my cup of tea at this time. (Who knows? My taste in genres seems to shift every three years or so).
The genre is completely fucked and turns most good design principles on its head. It is pretty bad.
I play WoW and have finally managed to get out of it a little with the release of the expansion because of some of the time sink removal. I don't feel the need to have 3 characters just to be relatively self sufficient for my main character so I can just play the one and don't get caught into the trap that is alts. I really like where they have gone with some things in the game and it certainly got me interested in the meta balance things that come with the game, but it is still not a game I reccomend.
-
Yeah, now that I'm at level 80, I only need about four hours a week to progress. I play a bit more to farm up resources and money, as I need scratch to play the auction house.
-
I played Maple Story for a while during the beta. Couldn't really get back into it after the actual servers started, though.
Been playing Necromium every now and then for ages now (Since 1998, I think?). It discontinued updating a while back though. My plan is to somehow reach Avatar before I die or it closes down, whichever is first.
-
I played SMT Imagine on the Japanese servers for over a year, nearly two. Ended up as Chaotic L77 magician build, with demons Decarabia, Skadi and uhh someone else I don't remember. I also played Phantasy Star Online on schthack, had a L180~ish dude, forget if it was FOnewearl or something.
Recently, I got back into RO at the request of a friend, playing on a very new private server. So far the community has been quite nice to me, given that most of the people on said server knew each other from old servers and I came from Japanese/Chinese/obscure English private servers. So it's quite nice so far.
-
Random shot I took of (most) of the DL Perfect World group.
http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20090109173702qq7.png
All present except for Laggy and Ashe. jenny is someone Laggy and I know that tagged along.
-
seeing you guys playing pw makes me want to play again, i have no mmo atm. D:
mmo's i played for quite some time:
- ragnarok online (mainly iro loki and iro sakray, plus a bazillion private servers)
- lineage 2
- archlord
- city of heroes
- rappelz
- granado espada
- perfect world (malaysian servers)
- atlantica online
briefly played mmo's:
- trickster
- smt:imagine
- warcrack
- luna online
logged on for like 2-3 days then went "..."
- rose
- flyff
- last chaos
- 2moons
- shaiya
- runes of magic
- druaga: recovery of babylim
-
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/3047/screenjusticero002xg7.jpg
That's my 5th Siroma card like. I dunno. Felt like taking a shot, because.
-
Just for an update, the people in the DL currently playing PWI (http://pwi.perfectworld.com/) are myself, Soppy, Tonfa, Yakumo, Talaysen, Nitori, Ashdla, miasmacloud, Unoriginal, and Ryogo. We have a faction set up on the Sanctuary server, so anyone else bored and wanting to give an MMO a spin should drop by.
-
I may consider playing PWI again if I can get ahold of a copy quick. If not, well... Mrf, then. I got nothing. I'm not promising anything though.
Anyway, got my prof, I have a taekwon->soul linker and swordman->sader in the making. Training up my swordman right now.
-
Just in case, job distribution so far:
Blademaster:
Nitori
Wizard:
Tonfa
Ryogo
Barbarian:
Yakko
Venomancer:
Laggy
Tal
Yakko
Cleric:
Laggy
mia
Unoriginal
Archer:
Soppy
Ashdla
Barbs, Blademasters and Wizards welcome!
-
No one wants to been a human :(
-
Kingdom of Loathing, Trickster and Ragnarok Online are the only three I've ever really gotten into. RO is... it's got the best soloing potential of any MMO out there which is why I like it but even there it's not great, so.
-
Lessee...
10six: Played this back when it was a beta on heat.net. It was a cool game and now, thanks to you all, I just found someone revived it cheap. Its not free, but it is cheap and it certainly is tempting to try it out again.
Everquest: The original! Played this up until Ruins of Kunark, I believe. Despite the masochistic gameplay, I actually had quite a bit of fun with it.
Ragnorak Online: Played it for a while. It was enjoyable, but never stuck with me.
WoW: I plays it. Its fun.
-
Got a level 80 Mage on WoW, haven't played for a week or so. The end game content is boring and a joke now. Hoping that they decide to add an instance that can't be cleared the first time people run through it.
-
I stay away from MMOs because I'm afraid of the timesink and I don't feel like paying monthly fees for any of the games that have it.
-
Got a level 80 Mage on WoW, haven't played for a week or so. The end game content is boring and a joke now. Hoping that they decide to add an instance that can't be cleared the first time people run through it.
You do realize that "the first time they ran it" was after they'd been farming the place for months in Beta, right?
Anyway, Blizzard has finally realized the mistake they've been making, and aren't going to leave raid instances open on the PTRs. They are going to do "focus testing" on certain areas to pinpoint bugs for short spans of time, and that's it.
-
I am getting sick of the Naxx argument. It wasn't a mistake. It was designed to be the way it is, it is functioning perfectly. If Naxx were to be difficult it would pretty much stonewall anyone new from ever raiding . Fuck that shit and get over it. Malygos is an interesting enough fight that is pretty tight without raid stacking or without totally outgearing it. Sartharion is ridiculously easy with no drakes, add a single one and the chaos amplifies dramatically and it only get more chaotic and difficult to control. It is some really amazing design that is generally speaking actually execution based fights instead of stupidly tight tuning. I don't know what the fuck people wanted. Were people wanting Leothoras the Blind version 1.0 in the opening dungeon or some shit? Incredibly tightly tuned execution fights that are brutally punishing? With some luck based elements in there that amplify difficulty to boot? No thanks. For every Noth or Gothik in Naxx 1.0 there is 2 other fights that are actually still mechanically interesting without being cruelly punishing or require you to sit there week after week constantly meat grinding yourself up against it time after time to see if you meet the execution or the gear check.
Edit - And not having logged on for a week is a bad thing? Being able to take a week off an MMO without losing ground is the very thing the genre has needed forever and never provided.
-
Ehh, I played WoW from the day it came out. Back in the day the game took a little bit of skill. I stopped around BWL because it got boring. I come back hit 80, and can PUG every raid in the game in 2 weeks. Granted half of the raid had been there, cleared it, etc. The other half didn't know what the hell they were doing, obeyed instructions, and killed everything. It used to be that people actually had to know learn/adapt to fights. (Youtube is partly to blame for this.)
Other issues:
-Back in the day things took a little bit of talent to do. Not to mention, the macros and addons have gotten to the point where you don't actually have to do anything on your own. (I never use them anyway, but it gives noobs advantages they don't deserve.)
-It used to take time to get geared up. Now you can grab 10 people and pick up 50 top tier epics in a day. In a week you're geared out and the only point to the game is the PvP or alt.
-Basically Blizzard idiot proofed the game for the mainstream players. I don't enjoy a game for very long if it lacks any real challenge and if good players don't hold any advantages over bad players. (The only advantage that you can hold is to spend more time than the other guy. This was always true, but is even truer now than it used to be.)
I will admit that a lot of the new fights are pretty fun. The instances have far more polish, the bosses actually have some different strats other than tank and spank, and the loot dropping has some form of order to it now. The problem is, after 2 weeks you're maxed out. You can opt to alt or just PvP. Alting bores me personally, although I can see why people would stick around for it if you enjoy leveling. PvP gets boring when Druid fights last for 6 months!
Also, Blizzard completely raped Mages and Warlocks. GG!
-
Locks and Mages both perform pretty well currently (I play Lock and am best DPS in my guild roughly speaking, varies from fight to fight of course, says something for other players maybe, but more on our raid makeup that it is stacked for me better than melee). PVP Mages are good at burst and locks are just fucked, but it is PVP, my caring is non-existent.
Back in the day as in like back in the day half way through BWL? So you are talking Molten Core and it taking skill? Molten Core is tank and spank. There isn't a single fight in there that is anything but tank and spank. Tank and spank takes approximately 0 skill whatsoever to play. It takes time sinks, pointless grind and getting 40 people that can get out of the incredibly obvious fire (or to run out of the raid on Geddon). The hardest thing you have in MC for a specific class is probably Mages on Domo, they have to chain sheep some adds. The hard part about MC was people management. This is a horrible game. You spend your time doing pointless grind forever just to get anything and it takes a damned long time to do it. Sure it took talent, but it didn't take any at actually playing the freaking game. Edit - This aside, some of the later fights in AQ40 and Nefarian are still very cool fights. Start of BWL is boring as fuck outside of maybe Vael. Naxx was a crazy stupid masterpiece but something not safe for consumption.
Compare that to now and yes, you gear up pretty quick. You know what that means? You are playing the game because you like the game instead of playing it because you have to or to get the loot. It makes the game actually FUN the times you are playing it and means it doesn't have to be a second job or marriage where it is the only thing you can possibly do to succeed. Blizzard finally made an actual MMO game here.
Also Macros have actually been nerfed for a very long time. No longer can you have a single button that does any number of things based on situational checks when you press it. There is no more single press healing that picks your spell for you like pre BC, there is no follow person, target that persons target, cast attack spell that is your ONLY attack spell anymore. Not even Hunters have their Steady Shot/Kill Command spam macro happening anymore with SS nerfs so that they actually have to weave shots again.
Transparent gameplay and community sharing knowledge has only enriched the game, guild specific hidden strategies were stupid pointless epeen that getting thrown on the shit heap with great sites like Elitist Jerks is one of the best things to happen to an MMO.
-
Chapin, I'd just like to know if you have the four Raid/Dungeon composite achievements. If you have those, then yes, you can bitch about things being too easy. Otherwise you are saying "The bare minimum is too low and I want people this game to be more like slamming your dick in to a drawer."
Stuff like Sartharion is probably the most brilliant shit they do in WoW: completing the minimum requirements is fairly easy, if you're willing to put in a little time. It's going above that that's actually hard, and you get extra rewards for it. We saw shades of this in ZA, and now it's back in full force.
-
Chapin, I'd just like to know if you have the four Raid/Dungeon composite achievements. If you have those, then yes, you can bitch about things being too easy. Otherwise you are saying "The bare minimum is too low and I want people this game to be more like slamming your dick in to a drawer."
Stuff like Sartharion is probably the most brilliant shit they do in WoW: completing the minimum requirements is fairly easy, if you're willing to put in a little time. It's going above that that's actually hard, and you get extra rewards for it. We saw shades of this in ZA, and now it's back in full force.
Don't even know what those are. All I know is everything to kill is killed and everything to be looted it looted. This took 4 weeks. (Yes including Sara 3 drake.) I didn't bother to look at achievements because all in all they're pretty pointless and I feel no satisfaction getting them. If you do enjoy leveling your achievement points then yes, WoW has endless fun for you. I really don't soooo I'm out of shit to do!
Edit: Meant to agree with the idea that Sarth is a genius fight. They just should have added a 4th drake for true epicness. Again, I'm all for something being too hard for idiots to accomplish. Make Naxx PUGable, make Malygos a pushover, but make something that requires real talent to do. Oh, and add more evil time limits to prevent the bad people with too much time from clearing shit quicker than the good people with jobs. Vael in BWL was an example of this, but didn't they eventually take away the 1 hour time limit?
-
Locks and Mages both perform pretty well currently (I play Lock and am best DPS in my guild roughly speaking, varies from fight to fight of course, says something for other players maybe, but more on our raid makeup that it is stacked for me better than melee). PVP Mages are good at burst and locks are just fucked, but it is PVP, my caring is non-existent.
Varies by fight of course, but in general a good fury warrior rapes the shit out of everything in raids. Of course, it helps that they get totems that buff the living shit out of them, while I get 91 mana over 5 seconds!
Back in the day as in like back in the day half way through BWL? So you are talking Molten Core and it taking skill? Molten Core is tank and spank. There isn't a single fight in there that is anything but tank and spank. Tank and spank takes approximately 0 skill whatsoever to play. It takes time sinks, pointless grind and getting 40 people that can get out of the incredibly obvious fire (or to run out of the raid on Geddon). The hardest thing you have in MC for a specific class is probably Mages on Domo, they have to chain sheep some adds. The hard part about MC was people management. This is a horrible game. You spend your time doing pointless grind forever just to get anything and it takes a damned long time to do it. Sure it took talent, but it didn't take any at actually playing the freaking game. Edit - This aside, some of the later fights in AQ40 and Nefarian are still very cool fights. Start of BWL is boring as fuck outside of maybe Vael. Naxx was a crazy stupid masterpiece but something not safe for consumption.
Well, a lot of the fun of Molten Core was figuring out the fights. We were hitting it before Youtube had videos for any and everything and before you could even find real strats on Alla/Thott/Forums/etc. A lot of the fights were tank and spank with certain orders of killing adds, but if you recall, gear sucked back then. You actually needed healing and tank rotations, well placed innervates etc. You also didn't have programs that removed curse/magic for you. You also didn't have programs that told you when bosses were going to do their evil moves. You had to... you know, pay attention and react. Also, you only got group buffs. Setting up groups to maximize DPS actually mattered. Once you cleared MC and Onyxia half a dozen times your gear was getting to the point that this wasn't needed, but then it got to be a challenge of clearing the place as fast as possible so that you could get everyone gear without going insane!
I logged onto friend's accounts and ran the rest of BWL and AQ40 when they were farmable. Tough to have an opinion on those since everyone knew how to win the fights, I was just there for the scenary and story. Never did Naxx, although I did hear it was evil.
I will admit, managing 40 people sucked. I was our guilds GM and trying to get 40 people to not jackoff, autofollow, autoshoot, etc. was a pain. Bringing raids down to 25 was the best thing WoW ever did. (Also, that troll miniraid that came out that was 15 man was a hell of a lot more fun than anything else. A shame it was too easy.)
Compare that to now and yes, you gear up pretty quick. You know what that means? You are playing the game because you like the game instead of playing it because you have to or to get the loot. It makes the game actually FUN the times you are playing it and means it doesn't have to be a second job or marriage where it is the only thing you can possibly do to succeed. Blizzard finally made an actual MMO game here.
I guess we just find different things fun. If there is nothing to strive for, I don't find it enjoyable. I had a lot of fun for 4 weeks on the expansion, but then I got to the point of "what now?" There's nothing left to do unless I wanna stroke my epeen and go for achievements that don't get me anything! I guess I could try and put together all mages runs. Doing all mage Strat/Scholo/UBRS back in the day was enjoyable and different. (Yes, some classes could do runs like these with ease, Mages were not one of them.)
Also Macros have actually been nerfed for a very long time. No longer can you have a single button that does any number of things based on situational checks when you press it. There is no more single press healing that picks your spell for you like pre BC, there is no follow person, target that persons target, cast attack spell that is your ONLY attack spell anymore. Not even Hunters have their Steady Shot/Kill Command spam macro happening anymore with SS nerfs so that they actually have to weave shots again.
Macros will be nerfed enough when they no longer exist. :-) Blizzard added all they needed with the F key.
Transparent gameplay and community sharing knowledge has only enriched the game, guild specific hidden strategies were stupid pointless epeen that getting thrown on the shit heap with great sites like Elitist Jerks is one of the best things to happen to an MMO.
We disagree again here. In Warcraft 3 I was ranked 1 and 2 in the FFA game type at the same time. Both my accounts also had 3:1 win/loss ratios, something that didn't happen in FFA, period. If you got to top 10 with a .500 record you were pro. Then came replays. I don't mind someone seeing why they lost the game and trying to improve. That's obviously not what replays were used for though. Instead, dozens of replays ended up online so my builds/strategies/items/heroes/counters and everything else could be copied. Within a month of replays coming out I couldn't even play an FFA without running into clones of myself. That's annoying... use your own damn brain to figure shit out.
I feel the same in WoW. What fun is it to go on YouTube and just copy what everyone else does? And what reward does a person/guild get for actually being good and creative? Back in the day the guild's battled it out trying to clear content first with the strats they came up with. Now, everyone just goes on Youtube and does what the other guy did. Fun!
Finally, back to the Mage/Lock thing. My issue with Mage/Lock is that all they can do is sit there and pew pew. Other classes have always been more versatile, but now it's insane.
Paladins and Druids can Tank/Heal/DPS.
Shaman/Priest can Heal/DPS
Warrior/Death Knight can Tank/DPS
Hunter/Lock/Mage/Rogue can DPS!
This would be okay if these 4 classes were actually the best at DPS. What's terrible is they're not. (I obviously haven't seen everyone play, but watching fury Warriors throw out 5K DPS without full epics is a joke.) Once Blizzard finally comes out with dual talent tree, this is going to get even worse. OMG I can switch from my kiting spec to me quick damage spec, rawr!
-
Varies by fight of course, but in general a good fury warrior rapes the shit out of everything in raids. Of course, it helps that they get totems that buff the living shit out of them, while I get 91 mana over 5 seconds!
And you know, the absolute fuck ton of Spellpower. Throw in an Elemental Shaman and you are getting almost the same 10% damage buff from Fire totem that melee are getting from Windfury (Don't underestimate that much MP5 as well, when you stack shaman totems with Replenishment the time you can DPS before you need to Evocate goes up an incredible amount), it might not scale as well, but that is an issue for later when there is gear that actually hits that point.
As far as I know, Decursive has been around since the times of BWL release, back then it was single click to decurse anyone in the raid, it is far more interactive now. You still target people, you still pick the spell to cast, you just have it presented to you in an infinitely more processable format the the standard UI.
For Tank Rotations and whatnot, that is still there, 4 Hoursemen exists, Gluth exists.
You still have to get out of the fire and pay attention, that zoning element is pretty much the heart and soul of WoW raiding. Get out of the fire, don't pull aggro where it is sensitive (You don't have to pay attention? Fuck me Heigan Dance is still like the best part of the game). I say again, look at Sarth with multiple Drakes up and TELL me people aren't on the ball when they get those kills.
There is no really harsh gear checks in the game as of now. This is fine, it is introductory raiding and they wanted people to be able to actually raid right off the bat. 5 mans were specifically stated to not be compulsary in this because it did horrible things to BC.
Setting up groups for maximising DPS didn't matter pre BC until Naxx. If you look at all of the DPS checks and healer checks in WoW classic 40 man raids they were tuned to anywhere between as low as 25-35 people playing pretty well. Pre BC raids were tuned with mouth breathing AFK hunters in mind.
I guess we just find different things fun. If there is nothing to strive for, I don't find it enjoyable. I had a lot of fun for 4 weeks on the expansion, but then I got to the point of "what now?" There's nothing left to do unless I wanna stroke my epeen and go for achievements that don't get me anything! I guess I could try and put together all mages runs. Doing all mage Strat/Scholo/UBRS back in the day was enjoyable and different. (Yes, some classes could do runs like these with ease, Mages were not one of them.)
If you don't enjoy raiding for the actual heart and soul of raiding, why even do it anyway? Same goes for 5 mans. Just do it for the fun of it. Yeah it is farm content, yes you might not get anything, but are you getting other people loot? Are you enjoying what you are doing? If not then yeah, leave the game, but I don't quite understand why you were even playing it in the first place then. I personally don't go in for the Achievement shit either, got all my reps up a while back. Been raiding pretty consistently every week almost since early December. Do I need the loot? Not really. Do I like a fun team play game each week? Yeah. You are arguing as if the game is somehow fundamentally different than any other kind of game with constantly repeating content. Do you quit playing Deathmatch when you have killed the enemy once? Capture the Flag is over when you have capped it once?
Macros will be nerfed enough when they no longer exist. :-) Blizzard added all they needed with the F key.
Spoken like a true DPSer that has never had to heal in the default Blizzard UI before. Mouse over Macros make healing complex fights actually doable. Add in bonuses for DPS like simple things like more flexible CD management for buffs you want to stack (BF/Trinket buff in my rogue times was a blessing). Macros are not a only crutch for the bad player, they are things that help the good player function optimally. Focus macros are a real boon when you have to CC things.
We disagree again here. In Warcraft 3 I was ranked 1 and 2 in the FFA game type at the same time. Both my accounts also had 3:1 win/loss ratios, something that didn't happen in FFA, period. If you got to top 10 with a .500 record you were pro. Then came replays. I don't mind someone seeing why they lost the game and trying to improve. That's obviously not what replays were used for though. Instead, dozens of replays ended up online so my builds/strategies/items/heroes/counters and everything else could be copied. Within a month of replays coming out I couldn't even play an FFA without running into clones of myself. That's annoying... use your own damn brain to figure shit out.
I feel the same in WoW. What fun is it to go on YouTube and just copy what everyone else does? And what reward does a person/guild get for actually being good and creative? Back in the day the guild's battled it out trying to clear content first with the strats they came up with. Now, everyone just goes on Youtube and does what the other guy did. Fun!
WoW is only a competetive game at heart (in game here I am talking) in PVP. In all other areas it is a team based game. If you want to have the competetive meta game component then you need to be on the bleeding edge of content where that very feeling is. Once the world firsts are out of the way, you have a couple of weeks before refined actually full blown complete and accurate strategy filters down to us run of the mill fairly casual players. Once that shit is over and done with, quite frankly the competition can just get fucked, the game isn't even about that bullshit. Sure some friendly competition can happen, but it isn't the heart and soul of the game and unless you are competing against a friendly guild no one really cares.
Sure Hybrids can do a lot of things. If they are doing one they can't do the other. So the whole point is meaningless. Once the duel spec thing is a reality yeah sure if the fight calls for it they can swap to healer, but you aren't going to have a raid where your entire raid needs to be made up of tanks and healers where you will be left holding the bag. All the dual spec is going to do is if such a situation comes up, hey one of your hybrids can change quickly, you are only going to be forced to sit out as pure DPS if the entirety of your DPS team is pure class DPS, which is some primo shit raid balance right there. Hybrids have every much as right to a DPS spot as a pure DPS becauuuuuse, when they are DPS, they can't fucking do shit all else anyway! They are functionally pure DPS at that time.
With any worries with the dual spec system being abused mid fight. Not going to happen. Plain and simple, it is the simplest fucking thing to balance that it is dead obvious what they are going to do. Out of combat only, not in BGs, not in Arena, not in Wintergrasp probably. Any possible problems fucking solved straight away. If someone wants to have 2 specs that are ultra specific for PVE, that is up to them, but it isn't going to be made required. DUAL SPEC CHANGES NOTHING IN THE GAME IT JUST SAVES YOU TIME IN RAID AND HOLY SHIT 50 GOLD.
The Fury warrior at 5k not full epic gear is going to be in 25 man with full buffs going, everyone is pulling pretty nuts damage there (Especially on the fight, if the 5k is on anything but Patch it is a lol, because the only stand and spank other than him has gimmicks that massively inflate Warrior damage at the moment). 7k DPS Affliction locks are a reality in that environment and I know as people get more gear they are thinking of breaking 8k at least in theory so far.
Edit - I need to say something else is the heart and soul of raiding as well. Potatoes are the heart and soul of raiding.
-
We disagree again here. In Warcraft 3 I was ranked 1 and 2 in the FFA game type at the same time. Both my accounts also had 3:1 win/loss ratios, something that didn't happen in FFA, period. If you got to top 10 with a .500 record you were pro. Then came replays. I don't mind someone seeing why they lost the game and trying to improve. That's obviously not what replays were used for though. Instead, dozens of replays ended up online so my builds/strategies/items/heroes/counters and everything else could be copied. Within a month of replays coming out I couldn't even play an FFA without running into clones of myself. That's annoying... use your own damn brain to figure shit out.
I feel the same in WoW. What fun is it to go on YouTube and just copy what everyone else does? And what reward does a person/guild get for actually being good and creative? Back in the day the guild's battled it out trying to clear content first with the strats they came up with. Now, everyone just goes on Youtube and does what the other guy did. Fun!
I actually feel like speaking up here about this right now. You've got some other points I want to address, but this is the one that jumps out at me as something worth discussing.
What you describe is the very nature of a competitive environment. The results are the most important thing. It doesn't matter how you get to the winning bracket, what matters is that you know how to do it and you execute in a way that allows you to succeed. Figuring shit out yourself is good, but it simply pales in comparison to observing the environment, seeing what works and what doesn't and extrapolate from there. You make a claim that things are being copied because of FFAs, but, frankly? That is the natural end result for good players anyhow. In any environment where there are a set number of factors (competitive games, tcgs, rpgs, etc) there is an optimal set of solutions.
If you're a good player, or want to be a good player, you WILL eventually end up at that point. Frankly, if you're as good and successful as you say, then replays or not, you'd eventually run into copies of yourself anyway. Players who played you and learned, good players who have figured out those optimal counters and builds, players who, through sheer dumb luck, reached the same conclusion as you... they'll all be there. All that having that information available really does is accelerate the process and make it rest less on direct word of mouth. It'll still happen as the playerbase expands and more players learn what works and what doesn't.
Which is why it sort of becomes problematic in your comparison, where you're putting together apples and oranges. A competitive environment benefits from this sort of interaction because it creates an interesting and fluid metagame which, in turn, creates new ideas, etc. In a game like WoW, this information makes it so the point of pride is in execution, rather than figuring out the fight.
Personally, for WoW, I don't care so much about knowing how to do the fight. In fact, with such a large playerbase, unless you are a guild that is first into new content, then there is a good chance someone will be in your group that knows the fight anyway, so the surprise there is wasted. Which is why the true art is in execution. You either perform the strategy in an ideal way, or you refine it. Ironically, achievements encourage this by making you think about fights in a new way and insist on picture perfect performance (see: The Immortal).
Anyhow, I'll address the rest at some future point, but for now, imagine I basically echo Gref and Rob.
-
I play Zero Online presently.
It's not much of a grind game (you basically get items to acquire, at worst, 2% experience per item you hand in, and the items aren't rare) so it's all cools. On the other hand, once you hit level 100 (easy shit, I assure you) you can be PKed and it's a global PK system.
Well shit!
I'm humping around in my Thrudgelmir.
-
Okay, I just joined PWI as a Human Blademaster. I'm on the Sanctuary server, so I'll try to find you guys. Name is CapnK
-
I'll add you to the faction when you're online.
-
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/642/screenjusticero019yd8.jpg
I love Grand Cross so much.
-
So, are people still playing SMT:Imagine? If so, can I get a guild hookup? Me and my girlfriend started playing and my old character was baleeted for some reason. Guess there was a server reset?
-
There was when they went from closed to open beta. We stopped playing it though, since we were doing stuff together and for some reason my computer can't load one of the outdoor sections we needed to go to. Well, Tal, Nitori, and I stopped.
-
I started playing the new Perfect World Entertainment game, Ether Saga. PWi was kind of boring because it was been there done that. orz
-
(http://starcontrol.classicgaming.gamespy.com/happycamper/gifs/orz-sitting.gif)
Hello to our *house*. Do you feel *better* yet?
If you are *campers* you will enjoy *the change*, but maybe not yet.
It is best if many happy Orz are coming to your *house*.
Let's *spitting* the fun words for several *pieces* and then surprising things!!!
-
So the Valentine's Day event? Pretty awesome, for one reason:
the part of the achievement requiring you to go to Gurubashi Arena. I went there tonight and the place was a goddamn powder keg. So I tossed my shield at someone and everyone went NUTS.
-
I'm surprised it wasn't nuts already, but that must've gotten interesting in a hurry. >_>
-
Those of you who quit Perfect World due to the amount of grinding may want to give it another try. There's a new daily quest to kill a boss from a lower FB. Takes 10-30 minutes depending on which boss you get, and gives about 1.5-2 times the experience of Crazy Stone.
-
Anybody believing these supposed expansion leaks?
-
Anybody believing these supposed expansion leaks?
No.
-
I have to admit I'm skeptical. But if MMO Champ is willing to stake their reputation (and by association, their ad revenue) on it, they either know SOMETHING or are deliberately being misled by Blizzard.
-
Plenty of it lines up with stuff people had been throwing around as interesting ideas, especially at EJ by not retards. Blizzard have been pretty good in Wrath with doing expected, mildly suprising but good ideas in general. Lots of good stuff in there, none of it would surprise me.
Edit - I consider the most suspect one to honestly be the level 85 cap and only because it makes reference to the level 100 end game concept.
-
And it's true. The classes, the races, the old zone revamp, the level 85 cap, flying mounts in Azeroth...
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/cataclysm/ (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/cataclysm/)
There's a trailer on there that outlines a bunch of new features. Apparently there's a new system of character advancement called "the Path of Titans." I have no idea what it means.
-
Well, that's exciting. Maybe I'll start playing again.
-
And hey, the old world revamp part of the expansion is free, which means it will probably be pushed out in 4.0 as the pre-expansion event.
-
The retarded. IT HURTS. IT HURTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
What parts of it are retarded exactly? I honestly fail to see what is so bad about most of this stuff.
-
The only general thing I'd really call retarded are some of the plot elements. And, of those, the only one that jumps out immediately as unforgivably stupid is why Thrall would leave Garrosh in charge of the Horde. I mean, really. Did we need each faction being led by the stupidest person on their side? Really?
-
The only general thing I'd really call retarded are some of the plot elements. And, of those, the only one that jumps out immediately as unforgivably stupid is why Thrall would leave Garrosh in charge of the Horde. I mean, really. Did we need each faction being led by the stupidest person on their side? Really?
That's how half the adventure/heroism narratives out there even manage to stand up in the first place!
-
I dunno. Even by those standards... Varian and Garrosh are... pretty stupid.
-
That, I cannot argue for nor against.
-
The only general thing I'd really call retarded are some of the plot elements. And, of those, the only one that jumps out immediately as unforgivably stupid is why Thrall would leave Garrosh in charge of the Horde. I mean, really. Did we need each faction being led by the stupidest person on their side? Really?
Uh, that's not happened. He's put Garrosh in charge of Orgrimmar's defense. Thrall is still the Warchief.
And Varian is totally justified in his actions, I might add.
-
So is Garrosh. Only because he is retarded, but it is totally justified. You don't go giving violent sociopaths a locked room full of coma patients and a knife and then blame the sociopath.
WoW already had bad plot that is a guilty pleasure to partake in like Dragon Lance, but fuck the Garrosh plot line. Edit - Case in point. Apparently Orgrimmar will be rebuilt and reinforced with steel, it now looks a lot like Garrosh strongholds...
Note for those that do not play the game, this isn't reinforce concrete style with a Steel internal framework to help maintain shape. This is walls with steel slapped onto them. You know, retarded.
-
Orcs are shitty at building things. This is a fact. This has always been a fact.
-
Yeah pretty much true, but these buildings are a special kind of ugly fail.
-
Garrosh really needs to die in general.
Soon.
-
Orcs are shitty at building things. This is a fact. This has always been a fact.
Not in Warhammer universe!
-
Those are Orks. Totally different.
-
40K or Fantasy? Because, debatably, orcs still suck at it in Fantasy.
-
Eh, they can make Rock Lobbas, those are fairly complex.
-
Don't rock lobbas use a different (and notably worse) misfire chart then most artillery though? Or am I rusty in my knowledge?
-
Oh hi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDZy6-fMCw4&feature=related)
So yeah, more info coming out. Interesting stuff. Still considering dropping the game at the next expansion anyway (not because of the content, it is good in theory from what they have said, it is just more of whether I really feel like even playing an MMO anymore).
-
Standard artillery stuff, although you need a direct hit for good damage, the splash damage is weaksauce. Of course this was back in third edition, no idea what the current rules are like. I dropped Warhammer like a hot potato when Clan War came out.
-
1 year anniversary of Perfect World International!
If anyone started playing PW last September (maybe Laggy?), you have a free mount waiting for you on your char.
Also, if you kept any gold in your account, sell now. It's going for as much as 1 million coins due to borken anniversary pack in cash shop.
-
I don't think we started in September. I think it was November/December that we started in.
You don't want me to come back though. I'd ask for my ice wings back =-)
-
Speaking of! Laggy and I have decided to hop back onto PWI for a bit, Cappy. Think i can get my wings back? I don't need any of the rest of the treasure trove I gave you, but you did promise me the wings back if I asked ;-;
-
Oh sure, you can have them back. I even upgraded them so they're faster. But... why come back now? Interested in the upcoming expansion?
-
Pretty much, yeah. Figured coming back now to get used to things again would be worth it. Case in point: Laggy and I decided to run fb29 by ourselves for the hell of it and he ended up running into the room of death and getting himself killed.
Still on KeithChiemi. You can just mail them or message me in game.
-
Any of you guys considering FF14?
-
Final Fantasy 11 combined all the worst elements of every MMO ever. It had forced grouping, exponential EXP curves, zero character customization, the worst community of min-maxers that has ever assembled, and best of all, EXP loss on death that could level you down. So you could die, lose EXP, level down, and then lose the ability to use half your gear.
I would rather try to fuck a broken lightbulb.
-
Cap'n K, why's the anniversary pack broken, out of curiosity?
-
Oh, here's a few of the things you could potentially get:
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/17684
http://www.pwdatabase.com/items/18429
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/16030
http://www.pwdatabase.com/items/16086
-
...wow.
And the rate isn't absurdly low?
-
I already told Soppy, but in case he forgets after being overwhelmed, let me list the major changes since you last played:
1) Autopathing. Click on an NPC or monster name in quest log and you'll fly straight to it. Also on the map screen hold Alt and click a location to autopath to it. Huge improvement for questing.
2) Supply Stash. Talk to the NPC in one of the starting towns (Inn of the Eagle, Northern Pass, Battlemark Village) to get this. Opens every 5 levels with handy items. Mostly to help new characters, but there's some pretty groovy stuff in them. You'll need to buy hammers from cash shop to open the level 50 and 80 versions. Also, don't sell those Perfect Stones you get from them. You'll want them to feed your genie.
3) Genies. A little traveling skillset joins you! These can learn a large variety of all class skills. Some of the good ones are Holy Path (quick movement), Extreme Poison (like Veno Amplify Damage, but stacks with everything else), Second Wind and Tree of Protection (healing). The basic skill on the Zeal genie (Soppy got one of these) can also be used to pull mobs like a veno pet. The high level skills take a lot of genie vitality to use, but are fairly powerful attacks. Their attacks use up chi stones, so feed them when you have some.
4) Bounty Hunter. Goodbye grinding! A new daily quest that assigns you a boss from a previous FB to kill. Really quick and good experience. Easy to find squads for because all characters of the same level range (60-69, 70-79, etc.) get the same bosses for the day. Talk to the Head Hunter on the circle in the center of Archosaur to get the quest. Note that you can actually get the quest twice in 1 day. The first time it's available is within 4 hours of server dayroll (midnight server time), and the second is any time after that. There are 3 random bosses that can be chosen. For level 60s, it's Fushma (FB51), Myriadtail Wyvern (FB51), or Zimo (FB59).
-
...wow.
And the rate isn't absurdly low?
It is, but the default item from the pack (15 tokens of luck) is really damn useful too, so still 1 gold well spent. They were released for the month of September, but since PWI's profit from them is so colossal they've kept them in the cash shop permanently.
-
I guess Soppy and I could make a habit of doing that new daily once per day or something since we're both in the 60 range.
Is there a more comprehensive guide on how to get genies/what they do?
-
Funny, I'd actually been considering trying to pick up either PW or RoM again. I'll probably wait til the expansion hits for PW though, playing as a class that can kill things at a hopefully decent clip might help.
-
Bounty hunts? Way to completely steal the idea from KoL, PWI.
Or way to have a game model so intrinsically similar that the same things are going to pop up in all of them, MMOs.
In other news, because I feel like bragging:
In KoL, the bounty hunter rewards you for each bounty hunt you do with a Filthy Lucre. You can only get one a day. Trading in 1 will get you an Odor Extractor, which lets you face the same mob (with some variance) for 40 turns in that zone. If you get 200 lucre, you can buy a skill that gives you that ability permanently, even in Hardcore ascensions, without having to do a run to keep it permed. This is extremely useful for Oxygenarian runs, where you only get 40 turns per day (+~15 more if you can use spleen items), and you don't want to be wasting your time on the quests that force you to fight rare enemies. Yessssssss.
I have 186. The day is near when I start caring about this game again.
-
Tideborn expansion for PWI comes out Wednesday. You have a 1 gig patch and massive lag in the new cities to look forward to!
Some of the stuff to look forward to:
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=466152
-
Meh... the amount of space they added was about half I expected. Most of it is low level stuff too for Tideborns. Not done looking at it all though since I spent most of my time doing the globetrotting quest for sweet coinage and exp.
At least the patch went quickly...