The RPG Duelling League
Social Forums => Discussion => Topic started by: Dunefar on July 01, 2009, 04:58:02 PM
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This is like the various old rating topics. I give you a list of bad guys and you rate them from 1 to 10, with one being shit and ten being awesome incarnate. You then say why and debate ensues. It's a simple format that makes for good discussion! When time has passed(Probably a week, maybe a little more or less), I'll total them up, post the results and rankings and then throw out a new batch.
Also, feel free to make writeins if I miss anyone obvious or popular.
Final Fantasy 1:
Garland/Chaos
Final Fantasy 2:
Leon
Emperor
Final Fantasy 3:
Hein
Xande
Cloud of Darkness
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Final Fantasy 1:
Garland/Chaos: 4/10. Gets points for style. For an 8 bit villain, he works about as well as you could hope for.
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Garland: 6/10. 2D as expected, but otherwise, works pretty well. Loses a point for creating a time paradox. *HATES time paradoxes as plot points*
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Garland: 6/10. 2D as expected, but otherwise, works pretty well. Loses a point for creating a time paradox. *HATES time paradoxes as plot points*
Agreed, though I think it works about as well as it can in FF1. Minimal plot so you don't sink into a time loop mumbo-jumbo morass. You see it, game's over, that's it.
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Garland: 6/10. Gets an extra point for knock you all down.
Hein: 5/10 Meh.
Xande: 5/10 Meh.
Cloud of Darkness: 5/10 Meh
Choose more interesting villains plz
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Garland/Chaos - 2/10. Knocks people down, otherwise, was there.
Hein - 1/10. Was there.
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Final Fantasy 1:
Garland/Chaos - 6/10. Just above average to me, though this is colored by either nostalgia or leniency for how early in the lifespan of RPGs this game came out. Also, I like the Time Paradox. It holds up pretty well on the weirdness scale of FF villains.
Final Fantasy 2:
Leon - 3/10. zOMG traitor brother! Wasn't really original even when it first came out... he gets 3 points for having more personality than the rest of the main cast.
Emperor - 4/10. Generically evil emporer! He gets more backstory in other publications, so I'm inclined to give him a few more points than I would based solely on his in-game appearance.
Final Fantasy 3:
Hein - Who?
Xande - 6/10. Not outstanding, but not a horrible version of fear/jealousy corrupts. He was afraid of dying and fucked the world up for that. I can respect that in a villain.
Cloud of Darkness - 3/10. Kind of mindless and all... Really not much to say about her. 1 point for her Dissidia appearance, 1 point for her FF12 backstory, and 1 point for boobs.
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Final Fantasy 1:
Garland/Chaos - 6/10. He has a plot twist, which is better than your average 8-bit villain. I like the deal with the bats really being the Lefeinish warriors and the Temple of the Fiends being at the center of the cross created by the 4 elemental dungeons. Time loop is weird but cool enough.
Final Fantasy 3:
Hein - 1/10. Evil dude who lives in a castle waiting for heroes to beat him up who messed up a town. FF3 needs to seriously figure out the difference between "bad" villains and "corrupted" villains; you get conflicting signals. On one hand, there's some dialogue about how Hein was a normal lord who one day got possessed by EVIL, on the other hand there's also stuff about how you should extremely kill Hein with no compunctions. Not a whole lot on why some people get possessed by darkness and not others - were their natures susceptible? Who knows. Meh.
Xande - 6/10. Reminds me vaguely of Raistlin from Dragonlance as far as "gifts" gone horribly wrong (shame they took the 'light and darkness are both good!' from Dragonlance, too). Anyway, the basic plot of "As a superpowerful being, to avert mortality I will stop time" is pretty cool. And he even has an excuse to send minions to mess with Our Heroes, because by restoring time they've "killed" him. Basically Xande would have been a perfectly serviceable villain in his own right a la Kuja; deciding that he got possessed by the CoD for no damn good reason was a horrid design choice.
Cloud of Darkness - 2/10 Evil entity from nowhere who threatened world 1K years ago yet strangely slow at dragging world into void. Plan for voiding world quite nebulous, mostly hang around doing nothing until puppet-Xande dies. Fact that Xande got completely possessed makes both of them lamer; you'd think the CoD-controlled Xande could have done something more than hang out in the Crystal Tower waiting, basically (the Lynx school of villainy?). Will have slumber party with Necron 12 years later, possibly be caught kissing.
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Final Fantasy 1:
Garland/Chaos: 3. Eh. Yeah, great for 8 bit, but I don't feel overly inclined to boost his score up too much.
Final Fantasy 2:
Leon: 6. A few points for pre-emptively owning Kain.
Final Fantasy 3:
Hein: ...He's um...I just played FF 3 too...
Xande: 3. Not inclined to give out too many points just for having a motivation.
Cloud of Darkness: 1.
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Final Fantasy 1:
Garland/Chaos: 5/10. See Dune, more or less. I like him, but not enough to give him an objectively good score.
Final Fantasy 2:
Leon: 4/10. I really liked that he wasn't mind controlled. That's about the only plot depth FF2 really had.
Emperor: 2/10. Cliched attempt to cash in on Star Wars' popularity. EMPERORS = BAD.
Final Fantasy 3:
Hein: 2/10. He sucks and barely exists, but I reserve 1's for people who offend me a bit more.
Xande: 4/10. Had a decent motivation at least. Just... awful stage presence.
Cloud of Darkness: 4/10. The opposite of Xande. Bonus point for being a female final boss since those are rare and such.
Awesome group, here.
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Final Fantasy 1:
Garland - 1/10. No.
Chaos - 4/10. Rating him and Garland separately since I've always kind of viewed them as separate characters. Anyway, Chaos was a pretty effective antagonist given the minimal plot of FF1, but I'm still not quite sure what his motivation was. What was he fighting for again? What made him evil? He was just supposed to be the embodiment of "chaos" or something, right? Eh, the fact that I can't remember means it must not have been very compelling.
Final Fantasy 3:
Hein - ...don't remember him in the slightest.
Xande - 6/10. Pretty darn good, all things considered. He had the motivation, the justification, and the personality to be an effective villain. The cop-out CoD possession plot twist hurts him a bit, but he's a strong antagonist otherwise.
Cloud of Darkness - 3/10. Just kind of there and doesn't do much until the very end. Still, she gets points for providing a difficult-as-balls final boss fight that I still remember fairly clearly to this day.
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Garland/Chaos: 5/10. It's at least a memorable villian, which is more than you can say about any NES villian excepting maybe Saro.
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Final Fantasy 1:
Garland/Chaos: 5/10. Original villain for the era. Is not an "OMG EVIL OVERLORD!" but just a good guy turned bad, and had an actual complex scheme. of course, being NES writing, it can only go this far.
Final Fantasy 2:
Leon: 5/10. More or less agree with Elfboy, except I give an extra point for the fact that he didn't have a forced atonement or anything; he was still a bastard in the end, and game makes it clear he only joined you cause you were the lesser of two evils.
Emperor: 3/10. I want to give him higher, cause Dissidia makes him awesome! But I can't. He's the first main villain whose actually got prominence in an NES game, which counts for something...and the "Take over hell" scheme was kind of neat...but yeah, can't justify him as getting higher.
Final Fantasy 3:
Hein: DNR. Not a villain, just a random throw away boss with slightly more plot cause the game hypes his game play trait in order to beat you over the head with "USE A SCHOLAR!" which doesn't really count.
Xande: 4/10. Interesting and unique villain...but problem? ALMOST NO SCREEN TIME. He doesn't get any flashbacks, gets one scene where he rants about evil, then gets road pasted, and the rest is pretty much just "fill in the blanks yourself" based on some basic info we learned.
Cloud of Darkness: 4/10. Female Villain in an NES game has to count for something. Also, she felt genuinely threatening despite only two scenes (which is more than Xande got -_-; )*AND* I give a nod to the fact that she was basically immune to the Power of Light for once, instead of just crumpling over to it; irony that a "Cloud of Darkness" needs the power of Darkness to actually defeat, but it was a neat twist to finally see "Dark =/= Evil" being used for the first time, and she's pretty much entirely related to that.
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Final Fantasy 1:
Garland/Chaos - Giving him a 5. While a very weak story due to its time his plot powers spawned a spin off. +3 for that.
Final Fantasy 2:
Leon - Can't remember much about him. A good guy turned bastard who doesn't waste anytime taking over after the emperor dies. 2
Emperor - Wasn't his motivation (I use this word here lightly as I think its mentioned like once) due to the whole balloon daughter incident thing or am I misremembering. If they actually used that as his main reason for invasion as he felt wronged or something of the sort then he'd be a far better villain. As it stands he's generic emperor who tries to take over the world, hell and then heaven. Gets 2 cool points so I give him a 4
Final Fantasy 3:
Hein - The guy isn't a main villain (He's on say Garuda's level) so I'll rate him differently. From what a Vaguely remember about him didn't he defeat a whole army in combat or something like that (and his barrior is also hyped as the next best thing since sliced bread). I can't for the life of me remember what the hell happened to make him evil so I'll give him a 6 as again he isn't a main villain and giving him a 1 due to that wouldn't really be fair.
Xande - The whole Cloud of darkness thing at the end was terrible. Also needed some flashbacks or some scene shifts to his tower to beef his plot up a bit. 3
Cloud of Darkness - Can't say much as there isn't much. The whole darkness, Light unite! thing was somewhat different then everything at the time I guess. 2
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Final Fantasy 1:
Garland/Chaos: Knocks people down/10
Final Fantasy 2:
Leon: Who cares/10
Emperor: Who cares/10
Final Fantasy 3:
Hein: Who cares/10
Xande: Who cares/10
Cloud of Darkness: Who cares/10
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This first batch was pretty dry, so I'm going to update later today. Get your votes in now!
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Final Fantasy 1:
Garland/Chaos: 6/10. Immortal line, otherwise doesn't do much.
Final Fantasy 2:
Leon: 6/10. Smug bastard. Ends up being more of a groundwork for a good antagonist than actually being one, this being in FF2, but the effort was there.
Emperor: 3/10. PLOT TWIST gains him one style point, otherwise extremely bland.
Final Fantasy 3:
Hein: 2/10. Extremely bland.
Xande: 2/10. Extremely bland.
Cloud of Darkness: 2/10. Extremely bland.
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Garland/Chaos - 7/10. Garland is awesome. Wish the writing were better, but he still kicks ass. The puny knight that plays a Xanatos Gambit with time itself. He's awesome, and also powerful enough to become the embodiment of chaos itself.
Leon - No rank, don't consider him a bad guy, much in the same vein I wouldn't consider Kain in this either.
Emperor - 5/10. Earns points for persistence.
Hein - No rank, nothing more than a boss with a castle named after him.
Xande - 4/10. Could make something of his scheme, but...nothing. Garland honestly gets more, and better, time than him. At least he has a cool, evil look to him.
Cloud of Darkness - 3/10. Points for boobs, and nothing more. Looks a lot sexier in FF3DS, though, so another point. The design is evil and works, but...it's an entity of destruction...kind of like if Meteor were the final boss of FF7. So not that interesting.
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The results are in!
Final Fantasy 1:
Garland/Chaos: 4.89, 14 rankers
Final Fantasy 2:
Leon: 4.33, 6 rankers.
Emperor: 3.50, 6 rankers.
Final Fantasy 3:
Hein: 2.83/DNR, 6 rankers.
Xande: 4.30, 10 rankers.
Cloud of Darkness: 2.90, 10 rankers.
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Top ten highest ranked villains:
1. Garland/Chaos: 4.89, 14 rankers.
2. Leon: 4.33, 6 rankers.
3. Xande: 4.30, 10 rankers.
4. The Emperor: 3.50, 6 rankers.
5. Cloud of Darkhess: 2.90, 10 rankers.
6. Hein: 2.83/DNR, 6 rankers.
Top ten lowest ranked villains
1. Hein: 2.83/DNR, 6 rankers.
2. Cloud of Darkhess: 2.90, 10 rankers.
3. The Emperor: 3.50, 6 rankers.
4. Xande: 4.30, 10 rankers.
5. Leon: 4.33, 6 rankers.
6. Garland/Chaos: 4.89, 14 rankers.
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Let's move along past that staggeringly mediocre group! With the 16 bit era we get some competent villainy at last! I hope. Feel free to DNR or do write-ins if you like.
Final Fantasy 4:
Milon
Cagnazzo
Valvalis
Rubicant
Golbez
Baigan
Zemus/Zeromus.
Final Fantasy 5:
X-Death
Gilgamesh
Final Fantasy 6:
Kefka
Gestahl
Ultros
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Final Fantasy 4:
Milon: 3/10. Rar I have returned from the dead to suck again.
Cagnazzo: 2/10. Extremely bland.
Valvalis: 2/10. Extremely bland.
Rubicant: 3/10. Honor !!
Golbez: 3/10. One point for HAND OF FATE.
Baigan: 2/10. No, the fake 6th party member thing is so transparent it does not even deserve an extra point.
Zemus/Zeromus: 1/10. At least he didn't fail up a good plot.
Final Fantasy 5:
X-Death: 5/10. Rar I am a tree. Splinter is memorable. Also the scene where he punts various places including the Moogle Village into the Void is pretty good.
Gilgamesh: 9/10. Today, we fight like men! And women! And women who dress like men!
Final Fantasy 6:
Kefka: 2/10. A few amusing lines, but just go away.
Gestahl: 2/10. Never does anything.
Ultros: 6/10. Moderately amusing.
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Milon - 1.0 - Really...uh...no. Just no.
Cagnazzo - 1.0 - LOL I AM KING BARON!
Valvalis - 1.0 - I AM WIND GIRL FROM NOWHERE!
Rubicant - 5.0 - Needed more time, but at least he got lines outside of when you killed him. And was generally interesting.
Golbez - 2.0 - MIND CONTROL!!! At least he has Manos. And plot power?
Baigan - DNR - The hell?
Zemus/Zeromus - 2.0 - Wins for the thuper gay speak. Nothing else is decent.
X-Death - 1.5 - All he had going for him was...evil tree. I don't remember any other story or background >_>
Gilgamesh - Mmm...tempted to DNR (see Ultros below), but...I think I will. give an actual rank. 9.0 - Is awesome. Only concerns are that his final scene is missable, and that he probably gets a lot more hype than he deserves >_> Otherwise, he is pretty cool.
Kefka - 7.0 - Gay clown is an interesting villain archetype, for all that I think he's a bit overrated.
Gestahl - 3.0 - Just...not interesting.
Ultros - DNR...don't really see him as a bad guy. Also a bit random <_<
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Final Fantasy 4:
Milon: 3/10. Creepy zombie guy. There's not much to him after that.
Cagnazzo: 4/10 Gets points for always being an asshole on screen, between throwing Cecil out of Baron and getting the twins stoned.
Valvalis: 1/10. Random fanservice.
Rubicant: 7/10. He had only a few scenes but he made the most of them. While he didn't win awards for depths, he hit his niche very well.
Golbez: 3/10. Eh. Golbez never does much for me.
Baigan: 1/10. Meh.
Zemus/Zeromus: 3/10. Shows up, gives semi coherent speech, dies. He's hobbled by being last minute. A better era of writing could've integrated him into the overall plot with far more skill.
Final Fantasy 5:
X-Death: 1/10. Stupid tree.
Gilgamesh: 1/10. Stupid fucking gimmick with overrated music. Go die.
Final Fantasy 6:
Kefka: 3.5/10. I don't much care for Kefka, though I admit he's effective and has some good scenes. He's just not my type of bad guy.
Gestahl: 5/10. Does his role as scummy tyrant well.
Ultros: 1/10. Stupid gimmick.
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Final Fantasy 4:
Milon - 2
Cagnazzo - 2
Valvalis - 2
Rubicant - 5 - Could have been interesting!
Golbez - 3 - Hypnotic magical hand.
Baigan - 0
Zemus/Zeromus - 2
Final Fantasy 6:
Kefka - 8 - Insane sadistic clown minion becomes main villain, conquers world. Loses the most points for the nihilism at the end thing.
Gestahl - 3 - Lolevilemperor.
Ultros - 6 - Not much of a villain really, but amusing.
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Final Fantasy 4:
Milon: DNR. 2 scene wonder whose just a random boss tossed in to follow up Lich from FF1.
Cagnazzo: 3/10. Unlike Milon, he actually does stuff relevant to the plot other than "Random boss". That said, its a cheap rip off of Lamia Queen from FF2, without the "O_o" scene.
Valvalis: DNR. Same as Milon. The fiends were not equal in plot.
Rubicant: 6.5/10. Ok, he has actual screen time similar to Cag, and actually felt like a genuine henchman instead of an arbitrary pawn. Being the first truly honorable villain deserves some credit.
Golbez: 4/10 in FF4o. FF2's Leon but mind controlled, and the game just brushes the events under the rug; he does get points for being genuinely threatening whenever he appeared though. 6/10 in FF4DS: hey look, BACKSTORY AND INCLINATIONS OF WHAT KIND OF GUY HE MIGHT BE LIKE! You know, the exact things FF4o COMPLETELY LACKED with Golbez? Its not enough to make him really good, but it at least salvages him some.
Baigan: DNR. Random pawn who gets one extra scene early.
Zemus/Zeromus: 1/10. Zemus is worse than Xande in everyway, and Zeromus worse than Cloud of Darkness. Zemus has the whole "Lacks screen time" issue but unlike Xande, we don't even know he exists until 90% of the way into the game and we learn very little about him. Zeromus is one of the worst "Final Boss for the sake of being the final boss" throw ins ever; I mean, seriously? RAR I AM HATE! FEAR ME!? What the fuck? I'm pretty sure this is the single worst villain in the series -_-
Final Fantasy 5:
X-Death: 5/10. Complete and utter cliche, but at least he has screen time! Gets a point for being a FUCKING TREE.
Gilgamesh: 7/10. Generally a riot. First comic relief villain in the series, and he pulled it off hilariously.
Final Fantasy 6:
Kefka: 8/10. The first villain with remote sense of personality beyond "I eat babies!" and an actual original idea. You know, he's not some EVIL INCARNATION or SUPER ALIEN or something, just a guy...who gains a lot of power throughout the course of the game...and his threat values are hinged upon what he WILL do, not what he can do. The fact that he does all this while having some comedic moments actually adds to the freak nature. Probably the first main villain in the genre, let alone the series, to show actual worth, and doesn't hinge upon "LUKE I AM YOUR FATHER" values.
Gestahl: 3/10. Tool. Basically exists to be a fake villain until Kefka takes over. Not much else...
Ultros: 7/10. See Gilgamesh, for the most part. Antics were even sillier in some regards (Seriously...he's trying to trash the Opera...WHY? WITH A 4 TON WEIGHT!?)
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Final Fantasy 4:
Milon - Hrm. A difficult one, but I've always liked Milon for some strange, strange reason. I think it was that... FFIV was my second FF, after VII, so Milon was really the first truly memorable boss that I ever fought in an RPG. 5/10, because, despite personal preference, he's very 2D, minimal screentime, etc.
Kainazzo - Ehh. Stupid fight, pretty worthless as a character, looks ugly. Gains a point for twin-killing. (I like Palom/Porom, I just also found it to be a pretty funny scene for some reason.) 2/10.
Valvalis - Gah. That fight. I hated it. Does nothing as a character, fight of evil. GRAH. 1/10.
Rubicant - I like Rubicant a lot. I think it's the whole honour thing, but I've -always- liked Rubicant a lot. Helps that Fire's my favourite element of the four and I love his cloak. I've even cosplayed sprite-version of Rubicant before! Uhh, yeah. Anyway. 8/10.
Golbez - I... kinda liked Golbez. As a villain, mind. I didn't like the whole Star Wars-esque "I am your father brother" thing... Hrm. 6/10.
Baigan - Pfft. Screw you. Gains a point for the fake "Baigan joined the party!" thing. 2/10.
Zemus/Zeromus - Okay. Uhh. Entity of hatred. That's all Zeromus has, other than epic music. Zemus, on the other hand, actually has a whole reason for doing what he's doing. I'll settle on a 5/10.
Final Fantasy 6:
Kefka - Yeah, I'm a Kefka fan. He's the sort of villain who you love, because he's hilarious, while hate at the same time, 'cause of the things he actually does. (For some reason, I'm fine with a villain destroying a town, but poisoning everyone in one?! That's just inhumane! >_>) Possibly the only 10/10 I'm gonna give.
Gestahl - Ugh. Gestahl. Boring politician-villain ("And, now, for my next evil plan, I will BRING IN A NEW LAW!") and you don't even fight him. How dull. Keeps points for his little treachery act (Leo ;_; ) and what personality he has. 3/10.
Ultros - Aww, how can you not love Ultros? He's awesome, although not for his villainy. If we were going based solely on villainy here, he'd be, like, 2/10. For the whole personality, he's probably... 8/10.
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Final Fantasy 4:
Milon - Random Zombie man who does nothing but get battered by Cecil. 2
Cagnazzo - I'm going out on a limb here and give him a 7 for actually doing quite a lot unlike his fellow fiends. Has several towns attacked, has Cecil kicked out of the city, Kills two party members, corrupts several soldiers to further do his bidding and kills the King of Baron.
Valvalis - Does nothing. 2
Rubicant - Has two good scenes and overall the best of the four fiends personality wise as the others mostly don't have one. 5.
Golbez - 6. All 6 points for being smart enough to place a trap door in front of the crystals.
Baigan - He amused me strangly as Baigan actually thought he, a crummy little guardsman could stand up to an elite dark knight in combat. Gets a 5
Zemus/Zeromus. One of the few things I'd give a 1
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Final Fantasy 4:
Milon: DNR
Cagnazzo: DNR
Valvalis: DNR- First three fiends just exist to be major plot bosses.
Rubicant- 6/10. Worked for what he was.
Golbez- 6/10.
Baigan- DNR
Zemus/Zeromus. 1/10. Yeah, completely unneeded.
Final Fantasy 5:
X-Death- 1/10. Tree. Fails.
Gilgamesh- Don't remember him.
Final Fantasy 6:
Kefka- 3/10. Ugh.
Gestahl- 5/10
Ultros-4/10. Few good lines, but generally was annoying.
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Sure, will actually do this group.
Final Fantasy 4:
Milon - 3/10. Eh.
Cagnazzo - 4/10. Bishu bishu dokode~
Valvalis - 4/10. Is Nitori but less evil.
Rubicant - 8/10. He was... surprisingly interesting.
Golbez - 1/10. No.
Baigan - 2/10. No+.
Zemus/Zeromus. - 1/10. Space flea.
Final Fantasy 5:
X-Death - 5/10. See Tonfa.
Gilgamesh - 9/10. See Tonfa.
Final Fantasy 6:
Kefka - 7/10. Quirky/snappy/cruel. Works.
Gestahl - 4/10. Eh. Even my first time through I felt Gestahl was kinda ineffectual.
Ultros - 7/10. Good lines ingame, but this is one character the DL's probably soured me on badly.
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Final Fantasy 4:
Milon - Was there. 1/10
Cagnazzo - Actually did some stuff, but was otherwise there. 2/10
Valvalis - Was there. 1/10
Rubicant - Actually stood out! Not sure how many villanious figures were actually honorable in the genre at the time, but hey, it was at least somewhat interesting at the time. 4/10
Golbez - Lamer with a lame plot twist. 2/10
Baigan - Screw you Baigan you don't even deserve a rating.
Zemus/Zeromus - RAR I AM HAET. 1/10.
Final Fantasy 5:
X-Death - Emo tree. 2/10
Gilgamesh - Punch clock villan. Like with Rubicant, it seemed somewhat interesting at the time, also, was amusing. Not wonderful, but it beats the crap presented thus far. 6/10.
Final Fantasy 6:
Kefka - Hmmmm... on the one hand, treacherous minion who plotted and backstabbed his way into godhood... on the other hand, ate babies. 5/10.
Gestahl - Boring. 2/10.
Ultros - Less relevant and less interesting than Gilgamesh. Likely more amusing though. Eh. 5/10.
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Final Fantasy 4:
Milon - FF4/10
Cagnazzo - FF4/10
Valvalis - FF4/10
Rubicant - FF4/10
Golbez - FF4/10
Baigan - FF4/10
Zemus/Zeromus. - FF4/10
Final Fantasy 5:
X-Death - tree/10
Gilgamesh - 7/10
Final Fantasy 6:
Kefka - 6/10 - Uweehehehehe
Gestahl - 5/10
Ultros - 8/10 DON'T TEASE THE OCTOPUS KIDS
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Final Fantasy 4:
Milon 5/10
Cagnazzo 5/10
Valvalis 5/10
Rubicant 6/10
Golbez 5/10
Baigan 5/10
Zemus/Zeromus. 5/10
Final Fantasy 5:
X-Death 6/10 extra point for being a tree at one point
Gilgamesh 7/10 amusing enough
Final Fantasy 6:
Kefka 8/10 Finally, a good villain
Gestahl 5/10 meh
Ultros 7/10 see Gilgamesh
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Final Fantasy 4:
Milon: 1/10
Cagnazzo: 2/10
Valvalis: 1/10
Rubicant: 5. Decent for what he is.
Golbez: I know he had some plot...but...
Baigan: 1/10
Zemus/Zeromus: 1. You know villains are bad when they are two distinct entities and are still grouped together
Write In: Kain: 1. You fail as a villain or a hero.
Final Fantasy 5:
X-Death: Don't remember FF 5 enough
Gilgamesh: Ditto
Final Fantasy 6:
Kefka: 8. I...well, I think Kefka is kind of horrible. Most of the time, all I really wanted to do was bash his face in. If this was a "How much do you like this villain," then Kefka would get a 0. But he was really, really effective, and certainly an effective hatable villain is definetely a good one, for all that not the type I even remotely like.
Gestahl: 4. I guess he at least somewhat fulfills a role successfully.
Ultros: Hmm, rating as a villain...4. Too irrelevant/out there to work really as a villain. A few points for humor. Opposite of Kefka in that he'd score a lot better if it was "How much do I like you?"
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Final Fantasy 4:
Milon, Cagnazzo, Valvalis - 5(DNR?)/10. They're all effective henchmen, but that's it. Milon coming back from the dead was moderately badass for its time, and the fight is not bad if you don't notice that your party switched rows / how to switch back.
Rubicant - 6/10. Honorable = heal you up for a good fight? I guess.
Golbez - 3/10. I hate 90% of mind control plots. Gets minor points for being an early one, but meh. Actually recovers points for the "Go to the Moon with FuSoYa to kick ass" plot point, I guess, but as a villain, meh.
Baigan - DNR. The instruction manual says you'll betray me, so yeah.
Zemus/Zeromus - Zeemus isn't that bad. Sure you find out about him way late but he mostly gets credit for Golbez's actions. 4/10, penalized a bit for little screentime. Zeromus? ....3/10. The "I will always survive so long as hatred is in the hearts of men!" or whatever final speech wasn't bad, but that's all he has. (And eh, since Zeromus is specifically Zeemus's hatred, Zeromus feels a notable step above Necron, who truly was out of nowhere. He's more Cloud of Darkness level.)
Final Fantasy 5:
X-Death - 4/10. EVIL TREE. Conflicted, since he wasn't bad as a presence villain (he does actively mess with your party and the world repeatedly), but his motivation was so incredibly "mwahaha" that it's hard to take him seriously. Less personality than Kefka, too.
Gilgamesh - 6/10. Passable.
Final Fantasy 6:
Kefka - 9/10. Actually not a member of the Kefka fanclub, but see Dhyerwolf. He's a villain that inspires lots of hate which is good. He also interacts with the entire plot, and is constantly at the battle lines messing with your party, something I respect.
Gestahl - 3/10. I thought Gestahl was semi-serious with the peace treaty deal. Making it just a ploy because RARGH KEFKA WAS RIGHT even though he's crazy... bah, you just suck.
Ultros - 8/10. Amusing comic relief.
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Final Fantasy 4:
Milon: 3/10. I kinda like the Fiends for some reason I can't justify.
Cagnazzo: 4/10.
Valvalis: 3/10.
Rubicant: 5/10. His honour stood out in a SNES game.
Golbez: 4/10. HAND OF FATE aside, he was pretty imposing when on the stage, just... eh.
Baigan: What the hell? DNR. Notably less plot than, say, Astos or Borghen or Vargas or Gigames/Garuda, none of which were worth ranking (and I agree with this).
Zemus/Zeromus: 1/10. See Tonfa.
Final Fantasy 5:
X-Death: 2/10. I could never respect him at all for some reason. His lines in the remake helped. Oh well, cool theme song at least.
Gilgamesh: 8/10. Awesomeness at last!
Final Fantasy 6:
Kefka: 8/10. I'm not a huge fan, but he's, like, the first RPG serious villain of any real worth whatsoever. So I bump up his score for that. One-liners are at least amusing, too.
Gestahl: 4/10. Better than the FF2 Emperor, but still same complaints apply.
Ultros: 9/10. Ultros is amazing. An octopus who jams up your opera and flies through the skies on a... pink... something. I don't think I can recall a single Ultros scene that didn't have me laughing. Well, maybe his opening scene, that was more crying. Still.
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Final Fantasy 4:
Milon - 3/10 - Memorable enough, had a decent fight. Zombie bosses are cool in general. Very Resident Evil, you know?
Cagnazzo - 3/10 - Tempted to rank him lower as he wasn't memorable despite having a lot more direct influence in the plot.
Valvalis - 9/10 - Is apparently a lesbian. That's enough. Also, she is probably the most memorable fight in FF4 for me. She was pretty difficult when I was a kid...
Rubicant - 7/10 - I like the fiends. I really do. Rubicant healing you was awesome. Still wondering if he's wearing clothes under the mantle...
Golbez - 5/10 - NB4 'I'm your brother' twist was too common! Also, FF4 felt like a Star Wars homage anyway.
Baigan - 2/10 - He totally had me going with that 6th party member deal when I was a kid.
Zemus/Zeromus - 1/10 - Ugh. Hated this fight. Plot?! What plot?
Final Fantasy 5:
X-Death - 6/10 - Worked as an ambiant villain.
Gilgamesh - 8/10 - Yes I liked his one-liners.
Final Fantasy 6:
Kefka - 9/10 - Kefka fanboy and let's leave it at that. Extra-game material helps his case a lot, too.
Gestahl - 5/10 - He played Celes, Terra, and Leo well. The scene where Kefka fried him was also surprisingly potent.
Ultros - 8/10 - Damn you purple octopus, stop killing the old man! I really wish I knew anything about his motivation, though...
TUNNEL ARMOR - 99999/10 - Best plot villain ever!
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Final Fantasy 4:
Milon - 1/10. Shows up out of nowhere, gets his butt kicked, and falls off a cliff.
Cagnazzo - 3/10. Actually did something important, but the lack of plot hurts him a bit.
Valvalis - 3/10. She...helps Kain redeem himself? Yeah, sure, that counts for something.
Rubicant - 6/10. Gets a nice chunk of plot and does some pretty nefarious things, but he's not actually evil. Nice to see a villain with honor -- there aren't enough of those.
Golbez - 4/10. He was okay. Nothing special, but he wasn't notably bad.
Baigan - 1/10. Most obvious betrayal ever. (My group already has 5 members, dang it!)
Zemus/Zeromus - 2/10. Random incarnation of evil with no plot and no motivation aside from being...well, a random incarnation of evil. Gets an extra point for actually being a pretty cool fight.
Final Fantasy 5:
X-Death: "Ha ha ha ha! I shall now merge all the realities, thereby destroying them in the process and bringing about total annihilation! Ha ha ha ha!"
Heroes: "Okay. Um...why?"
X-Death: "Why?! Well...um...it's...I mean...because I'm evil, that's why! HA HA HA HA!!!1!1"
Yeah, no. You suck, tree. I hate you. 1/10
Gilgamesh - 5/10. Fairly competent lackey who manages to be both a threat and an entertaining comedy relief character at the same time. Not bad.
Final Fantasy 6:
Kefka - 9/10. Probably the first RPG villain to demonstrate a truly evil side that was both convincing and effective. He seriously made me uneasy when I was a kid. Even after all this time, he's still one of the best.
Gestahl - 3/10. Generic evil emperor #1347. Gets extra points for that bitchin' mustache.
Ultros - 1/10. Annoying and useless.
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I'm updating tonight or tomorrow. Get your votes in now!
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Final Fantasy 4:
Milon- 1/10
Cagnazzo- 3/10
Valvalis- 3/10
Rubicant- 5/10
Golbez- 5/10
Baigan- DNR
Zemus/Zeromus- 1/10
Final Fantasy 5:
X-Death- 6/10. He's pretty funny in FF5a.
Gilgamesh- 7/10. Sure.
Final Fantasy 6:
Kefka- 3/10. Screw Kefka.
Gestahl- 5/10. Good at what he does; being an incompetent bastard.
Ultros- 7/10.
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Notes/Clarifications:
Minimum score is a 1, zeros will be scaled up to 1.
Any non rank that doesn't say DNR will be treated as a no vote. If you want to DNR do so by all means, as I'm erring on the side of being inclusive. Just make sure that you put DNR so I know what's up.
Write-ins are okay too. I'll include them if they get a fair few votes.
Results!
Final Fantasy 4:
Milon: 2.6, 15 rankers (3 DNRs)
Cagnazzo: 3.25, 16 rankers (2 DNRs)
Valvalis: 2.86, 15 rankers (3 DNRs)
Rubicant: 5.73, 17 rankers.
Golbez: 3.93, 16 rankers.
Baigan: DNR (2.2, 10 voters.)
Zemus/Zeromus: 1.88, 17 rankers.
Kain also got a single write in vote.
Final Fantasy 5:
X-Death: 3.5, 13 rankers.
Gilgamesh: 6.84, 13 rankers.
Final Fantasy 6:
Kefka: 6.67, 17 rankers.
Gestahl: 3.76, 17 rankers.
Ultros: 6.00, 16 rankers (1 DNR)
More coming in the next post.
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Top ten highest ranked villains:
1. Gilgamesh: 6.84, 13 rankers.
2. Kefka: 6.67, 17 rankers.
3. Ultros: 6.00, 16 rankers (1 DNR)
4. Rubicant: 5.73, 17 rankers.
5. Garland/Chaos: 4.89, 14 rankers.
6. Leon: 4.33, 6 rankers.
7. Xande: 4.30, 10 rankers.
8. Golbez: 3.93, 16 rankers.
9. Gestahl: 3.76, 17 rankers.
10t. The Emperor: 3.50, 6 rankers.
10t. X-Death: 3.50, 13 rankers.
Top ten lowest ranked villains
1. Zemus/Zeromus: 1.88, 17 rankers.
2. Milon: 2.6, 15 rankers (3 DNRs)
3. Hein: 2.83/DNR, 6 rankers.
4. Valvalis: 2.86, 15 rankers (3 DNRs)
5. Cloud of Darkhess: 2.90, 10 rankers.
6. Cagnazzo: 3.25, 16 rankers (2 DNRs)
7t. The Emperor: 3.50, 6 rankers.
7t. X-Death: 3.50, 13 rankers.
9. Gestahl: 3.76, 17 rankers.
10. Golbez: 3.93, 16 rankers.
Den of Rejects:
Baigan: DNR (2.2, 10 voters.)
Failed Writeins:
Kain(1.0, 1 vote)
Tunnel Armor(10, 1 vote)
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Not a bad group, we finally had a few interesting villians! Kefka cleaned up despite a few anti-votes and FF4 provided both low ranking fodder and our first DNR. Will it be the last? Remember, I'm being inclusive, so DNRs are fine. (Especially since I vet these through chat before posting them, and you know how chat is.)
Final Fantasy 7:
President Shinra
Rufus
Heidigger
Scarlet
Sephiroth
Reno
Rude
Elena
Jenova
Tseng
Hojo
Palmer
Don Corneo
Final Fantasy 8:
Edea
Ultimecia
Seifer
Fujin
Raijin
Adel
Final Fantasy 9:
Kuja
Brahne
Thorn/Zorn
Necron
Lani
Beatrix
Garland
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Final Fantasy 7:
President Shinra: 3/10. Gets a few points for his one big scene. He wasn't bad for what he was, but he had no time and was killed off early on.
Rufus: 6/10. Had style.
Heidigger: 2/10. Gasbag.
Scarlet: 2/10. Slappy bitch.
Sephiroth: 5/10. Yeah, he has issues, but he worked in the context of the game and in having style. I don't think Seph can be defended well in FF7, but I don't think he's trash, either.
Reno: 5/10. Vague apathy.
Rude: 5/10
Elena: 4/10: She irritated me a few times.
Jenova: 1/10. Bleh.
Tseng: DNR.
Hojo: 7/10 Creepy.
Palmer: DNR
Don Corneo: 2/10.
Final Fantasy 9:
Kuja: 1/10. Emo. WAH LIFE ISN'T FAIR LET'S THROW A TEMPER TANTRUM AND KILL EVERYTHING WAAAAAAAAAAAH. Bitch please.
Brahne: 2/10. Sucked.
Thorn/Zorn: 2/10.
Necron: 1/10. Hi Zer-er, Necron. So how's shit hanging? Uh huh. Right. Gotcha.
Lani: 2/10.
Beatrix: DNR.
Garland: 4/10.
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Final Fantasy 7:
President Shinra: 2/10. Lamer.
Rufus: 8/10. I admit this is mostly on style,(and AC scoring some bonus points), but damn if he isn't one smooth criminal. Has the occasional utterly bizarre motivation (hey guys we TOTALLY NEED the Tiny Bronco) but that's more of a byproduct of FF7 writing.
Heidegger: 5/10. Gya ha ha. Memorable jerkface, even if there isn't much to him.
Scarlet: 3/10. Kya ha ha. Less memorable jerkface.
Sephiroth: 7/10. I just don't know. Mindrape at Northern Crater is very effective scene and he is a compelling driving force for the plot, as well as a memorable character, but it's just such a mess.
Reno: 8/10. Just a really likable guy doing his job, which happens to pit him on the opposing side most of the time.
Rude: 5/10. Needed to play off the other Turks, but doesn't leave an impression on his own.
Elena: 5/10. Again, plays off Reno well.
Jenova: DNR. Agh. No.
Tseng: 6/10. I like him. Damned if I can explain why though.
Hojo: 5/10. Creepy bastard, not much more to it.
Palmer: 6/10. aww yeah
Don Corneo: 7/10. Ultra-creepy bastard. His end was very satisfying, so Algus Principle applies.
Final Fantasy 8:
Edea: 2/10. Eh complete lack of caring.
Ultimecia: 2/10. Kokokokokokoko.
Seifer: 7/10. Hilariously inept.
Fujin: 8/10. Her GIMMICK was very amusing, and made the normal voice scene where she tells Seifer he's gone too far off the deep end very effective.
Raijin: 6/10. Needed to play off Fujin, but somewhat amusing in his own right as well.
Adel: 1/10. What the hell?
Final Fantasy 9:
Kuja: 1/10. Go away emo kid.
Brahne: 2/10. Uh...a point for hatability? I dunno.
Thorn/Zorn: 2/10. That gimmick got old fast.
Necron: 1/10. hahahahahahahahahahaha
Lani: 2/10. Don't care.
Beatrix: 3/10. Don't care slightly less.
Garland: 5/10. Great presence for the short screentime he's given. Getting punked out by Kuja that easily was lame, though.
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Final Fantasy 7:
President Shinra: 2/10. Pretty much fails.
Rufus: 5/10. People act like he has more depth than he does; having played FF7 many times and looked at his exact scenes though? No, he was sincere in his speech, and the only time he really stands out is his one scene mid Disc 2 where he talks about how "people need a scape goat." Beyond that, he's pretty much just...kind of there, as half his scenes are mostly him just saying "Good, lets follow Sephiroth...and Heideggar, STOP LAUGHING." Not being a total moron doesn't hurt though.
Heidigger: 3/10. Token Fat annoying henchman.
Scarlet: 3/10. Token Seductive femael henchman.
Sephiroth: 7/10. While he's one of the most overrated villains of all time...I'll give credit where its due at least. He is one of the first villains with an actual sense of depth for the genre, and deserves props for that. Furthermore, he has a certain sense of style about him, most notably the infamous Fire Walk, a scene I still think looks cool even in FF7's original outdated Graphics (Crisis Core just makes it look more awesome!) Can't give him much higher than this beyond that though, at least not without delving into Crisis Core.
Reno: 7/10. Generally amusing.
Rude: 6.5/10. Like Reno, only less amusing.
Elena: 5/10. Least amusing of the 3 Turks, mostly gets this score based on association.
Jenova: DNR. She's technically NOT IN FF7 AT ALL. Her one line is a mistranslation that was actually said by Sephiroth, and otherwise, she's 100% Plot Device. This remains true even in later games of the compilation!
Tseng: 3/10. I wanna give him more points for being generally neat in Crisis Core...but I can't based of FF7 proper. He just sort of fails here.
Hojo: 3/10. I'm evil...FOR SCIENCE!!!! I SOOOOO wanna give him lower due to Dirge of Cerberus, but that isn't fair.
Palmer: 7/10. RATE HIKE RATE HIKE TRA LA LA!
Don Corneo: DNR. Barely exists, for all that he's funny; this is scraping the barrel for FF7 villains.
Final Fantasy 8:
Edea: DNR. The Edea as a villain is technically just Ultimecia, so she's more just a plot device than anything else. Is this an odd reason to DNR? Yes, but I just can't see rating her based on villain merits when half the game she was NOT a villain, and the other half, she pretty much plainly stated it was Ultimecia.
Ultimecia: 2/10. Her entire backstory exists in...Ultimania? Great writing there! Outside of that? One scene wonder behind the scenes villain who really wasn't effective at all, and could have been saved if they just spliced her character with Adel, which would have solved the backstory and motivation problems RIGHT THERE. Pity I can't factor in Dissidia, where she'd get a somewhat higher score due to Style, and actually DOING SHIT.
Seifer: 6/10. Seifer Clause was named after him for a reason. He's pathetic, he's an ass, and what not...but that's why he exists. You're SUPPOSE to face palm at his logic and go "Just what the hell is wrong with him?" so for that, he gets points. However, he loses points for being completely unthreatening in every sense, which the SEifer Clause does *NOT* cover.
Fujin: 5/10. RAGE!!! That's mroe than most FF8 CHARACTERS can say, let alone villains...
Raijin: 4/10. See Fuijin, for the most part, without RAGE!!!, ya know?
Adel: 3/10. Lots of the same issues as Jenova, except she's an actual character, less a random plot device dressed up as a character...by which I mean she has actual scenes where she's herself. She would be lower...except she tried to EAT RINOA, which gets bonus points <_<
Final Fantasy 9:
Kuja: 8/10. Magnificent Bastard, when all is said and done. He successfully played pretty much the entire world like a pawn, and the level of pride is staggering, so when he had that sudden massive break down, it was especially powerful. The fact that he actually felt threatening, and believable? Yeah.
Brahne: 6/10. A total tool...except the game actually painted her as that, so yeah, she worked for the role.
Thorn/Zorn: 5/10. I found them amusing, so they get the points purely for that, but as actual characters, they fail.
Necron: 1/10. FAIL.
Lani: 2/10. Meh.
Beatrix: DNR. Not really a villain as far as I'm concerned; more an Anti-villain who upgrades to ally. You face her, but that's not enough for me in this case. Why? Cause its no different than calling WA2 Kanon or ToS Sheena villains, which I can't find myself doing. The only difference is they're permanent PCs, but as far as role in the plot goes, they're identical; former enemies who ultimately join your side halfway into the story.
Garland: 4/10. The guy who was controlling things by Kuja, but ultimately gets usurped by his own creations. He could have been a lot better, but general lack of existing makes him pretty meh. Memoria tried to save him, except he got absolutely nothing in the way of development there; just an ominous voice saying "This is what is going to happen!" to Zidane.
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Final Fantasy 7:
President Shinra 5/10
Rufus 7/10
Heidigger 5/10
Scarlet 5/10
Sephiroth 7/10
Reno 7/10
Rude 5/10
Elena 5/10
Jenova 5/10
Tseng 5/10
Hojo 5/10
Palmer 7/10
Don Corneo 5/10
Final Fantasy 8:
Edea 5/10
Ultimecia 5/10
Seifer 7/10
Fujin 5/10
Raijin 5/10
Adel 5/10
Final Fantasy 9:
Kuja 3/10 SHUT. UP.
Brahne 5/10
Thorn/Zorn 5/10
Necron 5/10
Lani 5/10
Beatrix 5/10
Garland 5/10
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Final Fantasy 7:
President Shinra 3/10
Rufus 6/10
Heidigger 4/10
Scarlet 4/10
Sephiroth 6/10
Reno 7/10
Rude 5/10
Elena 5/10
Jenova DNR
Tseng 6/10
Hojo 6/10 - The real main villain or something.
Palmer 4/10
Don Corneo 5/10
Final Fantasy 9:
Kuja 8/10
Brahne 6/10
Thorn/Zorn 4/10
Necron 3/10
Lani 3/10
Beatrix DNR
Garland 6/10
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having played FF7 many times and looked at his exact scenes though? No, he was sincere in his speech
Apparently playing the game many times doesn't keep you from completely misinterpreting a scene many times.
I assume you're talking about the scene where he promises to rule the world with fear, and it's a lie. Seriously, look how popular he is later in the game (visit Junon, Kalm in particular). Either you view that as inconsistent writing, or of signs of him being a manipulator, and the latter view is supported by the tabs he keeps on your party (Cait Sith, obviously) throughout the game.
(If, incidentally, you're talking about a different speech, then ignore this rant.)
Final Fantasy 7:
President Shinra: 5/10. Y'know what? While he did need more screentime badly, I have to give him at least an average score just for that scene where he watches the destruction of Sector 7 with classical music playing in the background. The guy had style.
Rufus: 8/10. Yeah, I like Rufus a lot. LOL TINY BRONCO aside, he comes accross as exceedingly competent, and a ruler ready to do what is needed to clean up the mess of Sephiroth and solidify his own empire. And I did like the scenes when he expresses his disgust at Heidegger; it seems he doesn't have absolute power and can't get rid of the guy like he'd want to.
Heidigger: 6/10. Memorable scumbag.
Scarlet: 3/10. Kinda tosses away her character worth in that slapping scene.
Sephiroth: 7/10. Eh, sure. The North Crater scenes are very effective. Suffers from the worst effects of FF7's writing and translation otherwise, but... good enough. When in doubt, go with Tonfa. Actually I'll largely be doing that the rest of the way, so...
Reno: 8/10. Is awesome.
Rude: 5/10. Plays off Reno well.
Elena: 5/10. Yep.
Jenova: Bleh. I dunno if this is a DNR or not, I'll think about it.
Tseng: 6/10.
Hojo: 3/10. I really didn't like how they tried to ninja him into this big important role suddenly at the end of Disc 2. Didn't think it worked well, and Hojo himself lacks the charisma needed for said role.
Palmer: 5/10.
Don Corneo: I hate Don Corneo more than 95% of RPG villains, but Tonfa is right. Mmm, abstain.
Final Fantasy 8:
Edea: 6/10. Had stage presence.
Ultimecia: 2/10. Didn't, really.
Seifer: Only has character worth if he's taken in an ironic fashion. I'm not sure if he should be or not? Though we did name the Seifer clause after him, yes. Eh, 5/10.
Fujin: 6/10. Above average for that scene where she drops her gimmick voice, was effective.
Raijin: 5/10.
Adel: 1/10. No.
Final Fantasy 9:
Kuja: 9/10. Rant time! First of all, I hated Kuja for two discs (HI, I'M POWERFUL AND ARROGANT), but that doesn't matter since that's not what his character is about, it's all setup. It is about, yes, him being "emo". Except he isn't whining about how his life is pain, but a simple, believable fear of death, one of the most basic, primal motivations out there. This is why his arrogance is needed for his character; when he goes from believeing he is going to rule the world for all eternity to realising that no, he's about to die, it is completely crushing, and coupled with his greatly inflated view of himself, leads him to his logical conclusion that yes, it wouldn't be fair for others to exist without him. Very compelling, chillingly believable (given the implausible basic story of a person created to be a powerful living weapon), and had me buying in like few villains before or since.
Brahne: 3/10. ARROGANT AND ... okay, not so powerful ultimately. Last scene with Garnet may save her juuust a little, I dunno.
Thorn/Zorn: 2/10. They have awesome music.
Necron: 1/10. Zeromus is BACK.
Lani: 3/10. Uh huh.
Beatrix: 6/10. Had style, as a villain. (This score is a rating of her up until mid Disc 2.)
Garland: 6/10. Is named Garland, at least.
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Final Fantasy 7:
President Shinra - 3/10
Rufus - 10/10 - Fear-instilling among his population. An excellent president, better than his old man, anyways. Perfect for his role.
Heidigger - 4/10
Scarlet - 2/10
Sephiroth - 6/10
Reno - 9/10 - Sly, clever, but really in it for himself. Good stuff.
Rude - 8/10
Elena - 6/10
Jenova - 4/10
Tseng - 7.5/10
Hojo - 9/10 - Inspirationally crazy.
Palmer - 2/10
Don Corneo - DNR
Final Fantasy 8:
Edea - DNR
Ultimecia - 9/10 - Hey, she is a DEEP villain. Time Compression, childhood torment leading to borderline insanity. I like it. ;p
Seifer - 7/10
Fujin - 5/10
Raijin - 5/10
Adel - 2/10
Final Fantasy 9:
Kuja - 2/10
Brahne - 2/10
Thorn/Zorn - DNR
Necron - 5/10
Lani - 4/10
Beatrix - DNR
Garland - 9/10 - The man with the plan.
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Darn, should have weighed in on the last round. Oh well, laziness won that round.
Final Fantasy 7:
President Shinra- 5/10 not much to him, but that one scene at least ensures an averge rating.
Rufus- 7/10. Interesting and works in his own right, but feels so completely overshadowed once he steps in.
Heidigger- 4/10. Ehhhh, sucks but is supposed to suck.
Scarlet- 5/10. As above, but more amusing in her way.
Sephiroth- 8/10. No great shakes as a character but a powerful force as a villain.
Reno- 7/10
Rude- 5/10
Elena- 6/10. I liked her own gun-ho nature getting her owned.
Jenova- 6/10. In essence a backstory villain, but said backstory and her role in the story proper (that is, threatening bosses acting as Sephiroth's avatars) adds a lot to Sephiroth's "DESTROY EVERYTHING" credability, so worth at least some points.
Tseng- 3/10. Screentime. Get some.
Hojo- 7/10. The realisation that this oddball, mumbly little mad scientist causes the entire game is worth a couple points over his otherwise bland, average rating.
Palmer- 5/10. Can't give a sub-par score to someone that makes me smile, but not in the game enough to justify higher.
Don Corneo- DNR (5/10). Feels too inconsequential to bother with (Palmer is at least part of Shinra, which as a whole is an enemy entity). That said, self-aware joke character, so see Heiddegar.
Final Fantasy 8:
Edea- DNR (6/10). Is Ultimecia, as a villain.
Ultimecia- 6/10. So yeah, giving her credit for her stylish, effective stint as Edea. Doesn't score higher though because realistically, she's only a force in the plot for less than a third of it (Disc 2, about two scenes in Disc 3...)
Seifer- 6/10. another self-aware joke, but the best one so far.
Fujin- 5/10. Has one neat scene, otherwise meh.
Raijin- 4/10.
Adel- 4/10. Backstory villain... I dunno, without things like "genocided civilization as we know it" in that background it's hard to take her too seriously. Although the fact that they BLEW HER INTO SPACE to get rid of her is kinda cool.
Final Fantasy 9:
Kuja- 8/10. Neat character, works very well.
Brahne- 3/10. Well... she's frightening at least.
Thorn/Zorn- 2/10. Incompetent lackeys, not really funny about it.
Necron- 1/10. Sub-Zeromus. At least HE had explicit backstory.
Lani- 3/10. Almost a little threatening, kinda.
Beatrix- DNR (5/10). I dunno, all her interesting traits are after her heel/face turn. So, 5/10 as a villain just for being threatening.
Garland- 6/10. Sets up the plot, works alright in the scenes he has, but too far into the background.
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Final Fantasy 7:
President Shinra - 4/10
Rufus - 8/10 - Only Villain actively doing anything.
Heidigger - 3/10
Scarlet - 3/10
Sephiroth - 7/10 - Is somewhat good in places but fails in others.
Reno - 9/10 - Has Corneo killed and overall a likeable guy.
Rude - 5/10 - Doesn't exactly say much.
Elena - 6/10 - +1 for the punch to clouds face.
Jenova - 1/10 One of the worst villains.
Tseng 6/10 - +1 for somehow surviving a fatal blow by Sephiroth and then crawling all the way back to the entrance while suffering from blood loss.
Hojo - 7/10 - Effective for what he is but I hate him quite badly.
Palmer - 4/10 - Better then Heidigger at least.
Don Corneo - 3/10 - Scumbag.
Final Fantasy 8:
Edea - DNR
Ultimecia - 7/10 - While never on the scene herself she does enough.
Seifer - 4/10
Fujin 6/10
Raijin 3/10
Adel - 3/10
Final Fantasy 9:
Kuja - 8/10 - Effective.
Brahne 3/10 - Has nothing beyond being a idiot and evil.
Thorn/Zorn - 3/10
Necron - 1/10 - They should really just write something about this guy (Or is there something?). Some people seem to think he's Soul cage which would give him a higher score but thats unlikely.
Lani - 3/10
Beatrix - DNR
Garland - 7/10
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Final Fantasy 9:
Kuja - Conceptually sound, I suppose, but the execution failed to impress me. 3/10
Brahne - Completely uninteresting, but at least she did stuff. 2/10
Thorn/Zorn - Were there, but had cool music! 2/10
Necron - RAR I AM SPACE FLEA. 1/10
Lani - Was there. 1/10
Beatrix - Not really sure if I'd consider her a villain or not... leaning no, so DNR, I guess.
Garland - Failed to impress when he made an appearance. 2/10, I guess.
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Final Fantasy 7:
President Shinra- 4
Rufus- 7
Heidigger- 5
Scarlet- 3. Yeah, that slapping scene does hurt her character.
Sephiroth- 8. Just...incredibly effective.
Reno- 7. Is cool.
Rude- 4. Is there.
Elena- 2. And takes away from the fact that the Turks are supposed to be some scary merc, in theory.
Jenova- DNR. Creature Sephiroth throws at you.
Tseng- 4
Hojo- 4
Palmer- 3. Point for getting hit by a truck.
Don Corneo- 2.
Final Fantasy 8:
Edea- 5. She's kind of in a DNR zone, but at the same time, I can't really carry her points over to Ultimecia, so I'm at least noting this. She definitely had a nice aura of mystery about her which worked really well, for all that she didn't actually do much.
Ultimecia- 3. Certainly her speaking style means she was a joke villain?! Even giving her credit for possession, she...didn't really do very much during those times anyways. Ugh, 1 point for great taste in villianous architecture though.
Seifer- 2. I just don't find a villain that I have to take ironically to be good.
Fujin- 4. BAD.
Raijin- 3. Ya?
Adel- 2. I do want to know why she's a giant though.
Final Fantasy 9:
Kuja- 8. For the third game in a row, just a very, very effective villain.
Brahne- 5. She at least filled her role well! Very good at the two-faced unmitigated bastard role.
Thorn/Zorn- 2. Sad things clearly were meant to be humorous.
Necron- 1
Lani- 3
Beatrix- 7. Very threatening and competent as a villain. Certainly, showing up time after time to smash you into bits helped with that.
Garland- 5
-
Uh, yeah. Ratings are for *dramatic* worth, or my ratings at least. A really compelling miserable failure is dramatically awesome, even if the character is lame, so uh I never understood the need for a Seifer clause really (everyone's read Death of A Salesman in high school, yes?). Meanwhile too many games are filled with characters who are theoretically awesome but totally fail as characters, often because they're in fact too flawless! So yeah. That out of the way.
Final Fantasy 7:
President Shinra - 6/10. Not much screentime, but he seemed interesting enough from what we learn of him.
Rufus - 8/10 Best villain in the game? Sure. Hell, he's even right about the "use the Huge materia to blow up Meteor," and the PCs actively annoy me for interfering with Shinra's efforts to save the world (and pretending it's for the world, rather than a more believable "They tried to kill us! Revenge!").
Heidigger - 6/10 Amusing.
Scarlet - 5/10 There.
Sephiroth - 8/10. Loses the tiebreak to Rufus by a lot though, this is a low 8. Lots of style, but I definitely far prefer SOLDIER Sephiroth. Once he goes batty and loses it, he's less interesting and more "rargh destroy."
Reno - 7/10
Rude - 7/10
Elena - 7/10. See notes above re: Seifer clause. Sure, ineffective, but a good character; the Turks needed someone who actually cared to play off of.
Jenova - DNR, your average evil thingy from space.
Tseng - 6/10? Don't know that much about him aside from having a soft spot for Aeris, really.
Hojo - 5/10. Yes, let's inject Jenova cells into random things and call it science. I think there's a line somewhere in the game that says that Hojo pales in comparison to Professor Gast, which is a great understatement.
Palmer - 6/10 LARD. Amusing.
Don Corneo - 6/10. Sure, another amusing enough comic relief villain.
Final Fantasy 8:
Edea - DNR. Edea is never really a villain, as Ulty gets credit for Edea's actions on Disc 1-2. Though Ulty-possessed Edea definitely has more style than Ulty.
Ultimecia - 4/10. Slightly loopy plan that breaks down if you think about it too hard (though apparently semi-explained in Ultimania). Some points for relentlessness and Time Kompression is a somewhat more original evil plan than usual (less "destroy everything" and more "everything is me").
Seifer - 8/10. Seifer was good for what he was: a pathetic foil to Squall hungry for approval, a role he played excellently. He does lose a few points for the story not being quite so consistent, and trying to make him out to be an actual threat a bit by the end of Disc 3.
Fujin - 6/10 Amusing.
Raijin - 6/10 See above.
Adel - 3/10 Random imprisoned sorceress.
Final Fantasy 9:
Kuja - ??? Conflicted. Kuja's story absolutely has great potential, but I can't help but think that they muffed the implementation somewhat. Giving him ultimate power to zap Terra also felt a bit towards the villain Gary Stu side of things. And what was the deal with his fashion sense? Wasn't a fan of the ending either, but that was more Zidane's fault. Uh... call it 7/10, I guess.
Brahne - 3/10. Now here's a villain who sucks both ways. The game is explicit that she wasn't mind-controlled at least; there's something where she admits she lusted for power, which gets minor credit, I guess. Sadly she never gets beyond villainous Disney stepmother level.
Thorn/Zorn - 3/10. Whatever. Was not terribly amused by them.
Necron - 0/10 Much worse than Zeromus. Zeromus was at least directly connected to Zeemus, who pulled strings in the main plot of FF4. Necron is literally out of nowhere and has nothing to do with the plot of the game.
Lani - 2/10. I'd have forgotten her existence if it wasn't for the DL. A villain this unmemorable can't be that great.
Beatrix - 3/10. Massively wasted potential. An entirely phoned-in version of the "noble badguy following orders."
Garland - 5/10 I guess? Somewhat sympathetic, plan was definitely a bit wonky, though.
-
Final Fantasy 7:
President Shinra - 2/10. Died too quickly for me to get a good impression of him.
Rufus - 6/10. Pretty good as is, but I felt like he could have played a bigger role in the story. He had the potential to be so much better.
Heidegger - 1/10. Unimportant lackey #1.
Scarlet - 1/10. Unimportant lackey #2.
Sephiroth - 3/10. Meh. I don't dislike him, but I just can't bring myself to care about him.
Reno - 6/10. Had style, but not much else. Still, style alone is sometimes enough.
Rude - 1/10. Unimportant lackey #3.
Elena - 3/10. She was a pretty good foil for Reno and Rude, but there's not much else to her.
Jenova - 1/10. *shrug*
Tseng - 2/10. Needed more screen time.
Hojo - 4/10. Not bad.
Palmer - 2/10. Unimportant lackey #4. Gets a point for comedy relief.
Don Corneo - 3/10. He was a creep. Kind of one-dimensional, though.
Final Fantasy 8:
Edea - 5/10. I thought she was pretty effective. Kind of dropped off the face of the earth halfway through, but she was good until then.
Ultimecia - 4/10. She gets points for originality.
Seifer - 1/10. Terrible.
Fujin - 1/10. Lame.
Raijin - 1/10. Also lame.
Adel - 2/10. You know you suck as a villain when freaking Laguna can outsmart you. Gets an extra point for eating Rinoa.
Final Fantasy 9:
Kuja - 9/10. Creepy, chilling, threatening, and believable. Despite the questionable fashion sense, he is one hell of an antagonist.
Brahne - 7/10. Also played her role very well. She wanted power, and by golly, she'd get it even if it meant sacrificing her kingdom. I like it.
Thorn/Zorn - 3/10. Slightly annoying, but amusing nonetheless.
Necron - 2/10. Spoiler: Necron and Zeromus are the same person.
Lani - 4/10. Didn't do a whole lot, but I found her memorable nonetheless.
Beatrix - 8/10. She played the role of the mindless pawn really well. She was unwaveringly loyal to her kingdom, and she'd be damned if anything was going to sway that loyalty. I also loved her whole "I'm going to smash you into jelly and there's not a thing you can do about it" attitude. Whenever I had to fight her, I couldn't help but cringe and think, "Aw shit, not again...."
Garland - 4/10. He had promise. I just wish he had a bit more screen time.
-
President Shinra - 1.0 - Been a long time since I've played FF7, so maybe this is unfair. Still, I don't remember...anything.
Rufus - 9.0 - What the president should have been. Rufus was sexy, and actually had a presence, though it could have been more consistently large. Nonetheless, genius assholery.
Heidigger - 1.0 - Nothing.
Scarlet - 1.5 - Bitchslapping was entertaining.
Sephiroth - 7.0 - Trying to separate his CC backstory a bit. Anyway, his backstory is neat, but...his role in the game deteriorates, I feel, while Jenova grows larger. The end didn't feel like much.
Reno - 7.0 - Hair. Uh...best of the Turks by far.
Rude - 2.0 - Tough guy? At least he had a line or two.
Elena - 1.5 - Really didn't fit the Turks at all, I find.
Jenova - DNR - Seems like more of a driving force, less of a character.
Tseng - 2.0 - Barely present
Hojo - 5.5 - Eh...I like how he's the force of the entire game. On the other hand, it's like if Michael Moore was a suicide bomber - no one would really care even if he took down something important. He himself is...a stereotype MAD SCIENTIST!!!!!
Palmer - 5.0 - At the least is entertaining. Still needs more.
Don Corneo - DNR - Yeah, no.
Edea - DNR - Not a villain when she's herself.
Ultimecia - 5.0 - So little backstory, but she's present (via others) more than you'd think at first glance. And owns Jenova.
Seifer - 3.0 - Uh...I don't...find him to be much of an effective villain. Antagonist, yes, but...villainy is not something he does well. Still...enough of an asshole.
Fujin - 1.0 - What?
Raijin - 1.0 - What?
Adel - 1.0 - ...ok, she's...nothing but a roadblock >_>
Kuja - 9.0 - Stylish (the clothing accents what NEB noted), and he actually feels threatening. Also...yeah. The freakiness you see initially is pretty effective. Best single-game villain in the main FF series pre-PS2.
Brahne - DNR - I don't feel comfortable ranking her as a villain.
Thorn/Zorn - DNR - ...just...honestly, remind me of Fujin/Raijin, and I'm half-tempted to DNR them.
Necron - 9.0 - The spirit of the crystals, from what I understand and remember, so therefore he's been present in so many games. Believing this, everything before FFX was instigated by Necron himself. That's pretty insane - he therefore (it?) is behind everything in the series up to this point. That's pretty crazy. Too bad his actual presence is...fast and not well-explained here. Horrible way to go about noting the greatest villain in the series as a whole.
Lani - DNR - Yeah...Zorn/Thorn, except with breasts.
Beatrix - DNR - Don't...see her as a villain myself. More as a person blinded by faith - villainy...she played an antagonist, but unless I'm mis-remembering, not always a willing one.
Garland - 6.0 - Pretty crappy for the re-incarnation of the mighty Princess-Kidnapper. Better genetic experimenter than Hojo, at least.
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Voting on the theory that villain=antagonist, so even the ones that are reformed should basically count.
Final Fantasy 7:
President Shinra - 4, he worked as an ambiant villain early on, and his one big scene was memorable.
Rufus - 8 - Overall good, stylish, competant.
Heidigger - 5. effective cliche.
Scarlet - 5.5 - effective cliche
Sephiroth - 9 - For all that I hate the hype, FF7 worked because of Sephiroth. The story does a decent job of building up to his appearance, and while you never meet the actual Sephiroth until the very end of the game, you really have a sense of who you're fighting and why. That's a good antagonist to me.
Reno - 7 - Funny, easy to relate to. Sure.
Rude - 5 - Rounds out the Turks.
Elena - 5 - Rounds out the Turks. Annoyed me somewhat, but getting tortured in Wutai made up for it.
Jenova - 6 - Ambiant villain/force. I like her backstory. Cosmic horrors are fun.
Tseng - 3 - Screentime?
Hojo - 7 - Ignoring that DoC exists, he does a good job of being the man with the plan. And I liked his plan for all that the execution was sloppy and his motivation weak.
Palmer - 1. Meh.
Don Corneo - 6 - Creepy, somewhat funny, the antagonist of one of the more entertaining sub-scenarios in the game.
Final Fantasy 8:
Edea - 6 - MystARIOUS! But also stylish.
Ultimecia - 6 - The idea of Sorceresses was kind of cool. And she was creepy. So, just above average. At least she wasn't Zeromus/Necron.
Seifer - 5 - He... worked. I suppose. Point for killing Odin.
Fujin - 7 - For all that I don't think unique speech patterns = personality, I found myself liking Fujin anyway.
Raijin - 5 - Less so, here.
Adel - 5 - Again, the Sorceresses plotline was kind of cool.
Final Fantasy 9:
Kuja - 9 - Elfboy's post convinced me.
Brahne - 6 - She was unique at least. And creepy. And that final scene with Garnet was cool.
Thorn/Zorn - 7 - Jeebus Christ jesters freak me out.
Necron - 1 - Can I vote lower, please?
Lani - 1 - Completely unmemorable.
Beatrix - 7 - Worked well as a villain, and it never felt offensive when she became an ally (normally I hate this kind of redeemed villain character). So I suppose they did something right, though I can't quite explain it.
Garland - 8 - Memorable, worked well in telling Zidane and Kuja's stories. Had a decent motivation.
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Final Fantasy 7: To me, FF7 was saved by its villain cast (Sephiroth, Rufus and the Turks specifically). I wanted ShinRa to win because their people seemed more sensible, cooler and better equipped to save the world. I enjoyed seeing the PCs and some of the antagonists have a seemingly legitimate ideological difference. Sephiroth has more presence than any other villain except, perhaps, Ghaleon and Luca Blight. If the PC cast didn't suck horribly by FF standards (the Compilation saves most of them), I'd actually like FF7 as much as the hype surrounding it.
President Shinra 3/10: Not terribly memorable, although the watching Sector 7's destruction scene earns minor style points.
Rufus 9/10: A stylish ideological antagonist. The fact he was a lame fight for all his cool factor actually enhances him in my view; he contests the PCs on an entirely different plane than most RPG villains. In fact, I can't think of another example quite like him. I'm somewhat biased in that I was rooting for him to win the whole way.
Heidigger 2/10: Fail, was there. Not a 1 because 8-bit exists.
Scarlet 2/10: Fail, was there, wasn't quite as annoying as Heidy.
Sephiroth 9/10: His story is an incoherent mess, he isn't actually present for most of the game, but holy crap did he have PRESENCE. He's the driving force of the story in a way very few villains manage to be. If you count his Compilation appearances he's actually an interesting character, but in FF7 itself he's more of a force of nature that happens to have a tragic (and confusing, and hinted at) backstory.
Reno 7/10: A fun jobber villain who gets points for style, humor, balls and occasional challenge.
Rude 6/10: Nicely compliments Reno but is less often challenging.
Elena 4/10: Not as much screen time as the rest of the Turks.
Jenova DNR: Not present.
Tseng 5/10: Lots of potential (as with most things in FF7, much better in CC) but doesn't show it.
Hojo 5/10: Conceptually very good, but the execution just isn't there.
Palmer 2/10: Fail.
Don Corneo 2/10: Fail.
WRITE-IN!!! Yuffie: 4/10. If the mark of a good villain is to make you hate her, she should be a 10. But, you're supposed to LOVE to hate a GREAT villain. Ironically, was actually both funny and sympathetic in the rest of the Compilation, but that's standard for FF7's fail PC cast and their cool secondary source appearances.
Final Fantasy 8: Direct contrast to FF7 - I actually like the PC cast a TON, but the villains were flat.
Edea 5/10: Style points. Arguably those should go to Ulty since she was in control at the time, but Edea's actual presence as a villain was much higher.
Ultimecia 4/10: Random final boss, but she was actually somewhat foreshadowed and ties in to the story, and her actions did indirectly drive things.
Seifer 5/10: As a person, he's as much Fail as the ShinRa managers. As a character, he works well for his role in the story. Loses a point for getting to kill a powerful esper despite being otherwise presented as an also-ran.
Fujin 4/10: Cool, even somewhat poignant at times. Also a good fight.
Raijin 4/10: A little bit poignant at times, but not cool. Good fight, though.
Adel 3/10: I suspect she'd rate fairly highly in a Laguna-based spinoff (which would be made of win); as-is, is there. Can't go lower because she is the center of a lot of cool scenes, can't go higher because her personality and presence are basically nil.
Final Fantasy 9:
Kuja 7.5/10: The transition from arrogant manipulator to desperate freak was very, very cool. He had style, even if half the time his style was "man, what?" Caused major havoc. Loses half a point because t3h pants were not part of t3h plan.
Brahne 3/10: Generically villainous, but worked as such. Half a point for being manipulated rather than mind controlled. Would have been much more interesting if she'd managed to have a valid point ala Rufus, but alas.
Thorn/Zorn 2/10: Fail. Less menacing than the Black Waltzes, pale imitations of Kefka when it comes to evil jesterdom, not interesting to fight.
Necron 0, even though I know it will become a 1 in the ratings/10: Makes me think of Spacebattles.com - a ROB. Except not omnipotent. Also, lame way to end the game. Also, cheap status whore whose difficulty was incredibly random. Made both plot and gameplay retroactively worse to the point I'd probably drop the game itself a full point on a 1-10 scale due to its existence. Possibly the greatest FAIL villain in FF history.
Lani DNR (2/10): Was there.
Beatrix 6/10: Had presence as an antagonist and I've always liked the Knight Templar type. Arguably should be DNR, but her best scenes were before flipping sides.
Garland 4/10: Had a disposition for exposition. Had an interesting scheme. Gets pwnd in a good scene. Is (was) there.
-
Hey, why not?
Final Fantasy 7:
President Shinra: 3/10. Did he do anything except die? I can't recollect.
Rufus: 5/10. "Controlling the world through fear" is a good political allegory. However he was doing it wrong SO I HAD TO DOWNGRADE HIM.
Heidigger: 6/10. I seem to recall him being something of a jerkass, who put the boots to people or somesuch.
Scarlet: 2/10. I remember she had an obnoxious laugh and she slapped people.
Sephiroth: 0/10. He killed Aeris for me, which in turn nixed my motivation to kill him. I wish he hadn't stopped there and carried on to many of my other party members.
Reno: 5/10. Yes, you're supposed to be cool, I get it. Your timeclock villain routine is okay.
Rude: 5/10. You are about business. I appreciate a character in a Final Fantasy game who does not talk very much.
Elena: 3/10. I remember you being mad because you wanted to get weird with Tseng. Also Don Corneo wanted to grab your tits.
Jenova: 3/10. I liked you better when you were in Psycho. You had much better writing.
Tseng: DNR. What did this guy even DO?
Hojo: 6/10. Jerkassery and then he turned in to some alien thing. After he attempted to incite bestiality at the beginning of the game, I was kind of unable to take him seriously. I expected him to ask me if I wanted to see a donkey show.
Palmer: As a villain? 2/10. He's an okay gag character.
Don Corneo: 3/10. Better gag character, actually felt menacing?
Final Fantasy 8:
Edea: 5/10. She was mysterious.
Ultimecia: 1/10. Well, we have no understandable motivation for her ("time compression?") and her development is limited to being from a time when the letter C has been lost to history.
Seifer: 8/10. I have a deep enjoyment of characters who, instead of wanting to be a megalomaniac, want to be "the bad guy." Seifer takes such glee in doing shit just to stick it to others and inevitably failing that he's almost as good in this role as Albel was.
Fujin: 3/10. Why can't you be cackling madly as you take it to the PCs? You're not FUN like Seifer.
Raijin: 3/10. See above.
Adel: 2/10. Somehow you are the most developed villain besides Seifer. I wanted to learn more about her childhood and what drove her to the decision to get that sex change operation.
Final Fantasy 9:
Kuja: 9/10. Kuja is awesome. He's like if you gave a small child absolute power and cancer.
Brahne: 5/10. I guess you did pretty well at getting played.
Thorn/Zorn: DNR. I'm pretty sure I clapped those fucks early on, didn't I? I don't remember them doing anything.
Necron: 1/10. We're talking Ultimecia fail here.
Lani: 1/10. I strained to recall anything she did.
Beatrix: 8/10. Beatrix was the reliable Royalist archetype. Those lawful neutral types make for good antagonist figures.
Garland: 6/10. Despite his low screen time, I for some reason liked the guy. Maybe it was his comprehensive assholery and his realization that cloned people are as expendable as ammunition, if he saw fit.
-
Rob that is an awesome description of Kuja.
President Shinra: 2/10- Bonus point for Sector 7, but fails otherwise.
Rufus: 7/10- Pretty awesome, but manipulating the world + fighting would make him cooler.
Heidigger: 1/10- Annoying as crap
Scarlet: 2/10- Not Heidigger
Sephiroth: 8/10- Serious mommy complex and still manages to be badass?
Reno: 8.5/10- Reno is even a cooler midboss than Ultros
Rude: 4/10- Rude is boring though
Elena: 4/10- As is Elena
Jenova: 2/10- Ehh... dunno about Jenova
Tseng: 6/10- Needed more screen time, but seemed pretty badass
Hojo: 7/10- A good mad scientist
Palmer: Infinity/10- Legendary comic relief bad guy! (4/10 for reals though)
Don Corneo: 2/10- For being a womanizer
Final Fantasy 8:
Edea: Jumping on the "Not a villain" bandwagon
Ultimecia: 7/10- Controlling people is pretty cool, and her castle owned... but she herself was eh
Seifer: 2/10- Whiny bitch
Fujin: 6/10- Sidekick who was way cooler than whiny bitch
Raijin: 4/10- Sidekick who was slightly cooler than whiny bitch
Adel: 1/10- Not memorable to me AT ALL. (I just recall her being 2HKO bait.)
Final Fantasy 9:
Kuja: 9.5/10- Seriously, Kuja works well barring the clothes issues... He manipulates everyone to start what is effectively a world war, manages to grow more powerful than his creator and usurp him, and gains ultimate power. The reaction when he realizes that power won't save him also works.
Brahne: 1/10- Stupid
Thorn/Zorn: 1.5/10- Stupid but slightly humerous
Necron: 1/10- Yawns
Lani: 3/10- Needed more screen time to be cool.
Beatrix: 8/10- Blind solider who actually manages to see the light.
Garland: 8/10- Had a cool shtick going until Kuja screwed it all up
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Final Fantasy 7:
President Shinra - DNR. Dies too quickly.
Rufus - 2/10. "I am cruel and horrible and hear me roar but actually achieve NOTHING OF INTEREST!" Boring villain.
Heidigger - 1/10. Has to be ranked if Scarlet is, but is utterly useless and not threatening in the slightest.
Scarlet - 2/10. Actually seems quite threatening. Sort of. I'm not too sure why, though.
Sephiroth - 4/10. Ehh. Achieves something, which is more than most of the cast can say. 2D villain with backstory, but no personality.
Reno - 8/10. Based on FFVII, Reno is awesome. A decent villain, gets in the way but is still sort of an ally. Also gets one of my favourite FFVII lines. Would be better if he had more screentime. (Note that I'm ignoring AC for these votes - he'd be lower then for the drastic personality change.)
Rude - 2/10. See the second half of Sephiroth's comments.
Elena - 1/10. Fails. Fails in-game, fails as a villain... just fail.
Jenova - DNR. Doesn't actually have a role in-game.
Tseng - 3/10. Wasn't bad early on, but gets nothing but 'death' outside of Midgar.
Hojo - 4/10. He doesn't do much, but I utterly hate him. Which means he succeeds as a villain, I guess? Eh.
Palmer - DNR. Truck.
Don Corneo - 1/10. See Elena's comments.
Final Fantasy 8:
Edea - 3/10. Achievements: 1. Holds a parade, gives fail speech. 2. Gets screwed over by the party several times before her plans can even take effect. 3. Returns to normal. Not really much of a villain, hunh?
Ultimecia - 2/10. That extra point is for Kursing.
Seifer - 2/10. 2D Generic Rival, nothing else.
Fujin - 6/10. LIKE. REASON: UNKNOWN. AWESOME.
Raijin - 5/10. Ehh, he's good for comedy value, ya know?
Adel - 1/10. Picks up Rinoa, gets killed. gj.
Final Fantasy 9:
Kuja - 10/10. Okay, awesome. Saving grace for this pool, I guess. Has a reason to fight, has more motivation than "I WANT TO KILL THINGS" and actually succeeds. Somewhat Kefka Mk. II, but different enough to be awesome. (Also, funny in an entirely different way to Kefka - Kefka is loud joker, whereas Kuja is more the insulting sarcastic type.)
Brahne - 5/10. Okay. She.. kinda works as a villain, but Kuja's mostly pulling the strings, so she loses credit for that. Plus, she's ugly. -3 for that.
Thorn/Zorn - 4/10. Ehh. They suck as villains, but get points for comedy value. Extra point for personal taste because I cosplayed Zorn.
Necron - 7/10. Yes, I know, I know. But I've read into FFIX way too much and had in-depth plot discussions about it. Necron didn't show up from nowhere, Necron has a valid (although with ridiculously flawed logic) reason for destroying the world. ("Enter the zero world you desire." "No!" Sure, he desires it. >_>) Also, bonus points for actually being a pretty tough final boss, which is damn rare in the modern FFs. (Think he's the only one from VI onwards, and I don't know about V.)
Lani - 2/10. Ehh, has a personality, which is something. Might be likable, but.. what screentime?
Beatrix - DNR. If she ends up ranked, I'll say 8/10. She's awesome, but I don't class her as a villain at all. Even when she was against you, she was clearly going to change sides eventually.
Garland - 7/10. Plot links ahoy! I'll probably make a topic about the FF timeline eventually. So yeah, actually is a threat, basically causes the destruction of both planets and is utterly evil. Would get more points if he directly achieved something, as opposed to through Kuja.
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Final Fantasy 7:
President Shinra-3/10
Rufus- 8.5/10
Heidigger- 1/10
Scarlet- 1/10
Sephiroth- 5/10
Reno- 8/10
Rude- 4/10
Elena- 4/10
Jenova- 1/10
Tseng- DNR
Hojo- 3/10
Palmer- 5/10
Don Corneo- 7/10
Final Fantasy 8:
Edea- DNR
Ultimecia- 1/10
Seifer- 2/10
Fujin- 8/10
Raijin- 7/10
Adel- DNR
Final Fantasy 9:
Kuja- 9/10
Brahne- 6/10
Thorn/Zorn- 3/10
Necron- 1/10
Lani- 4/10
Beatrix- DNR
Garland- ???
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It goes "work for ShinRa, get your paycheck. If terrorists attack, ShinRa's army will protect you," or something like that, right?
Actually, that's him commenting on Pres. Shinra's way of running things. "Old man tried to rule the world with money. Seems to have been working. Work for Shinra, you get paid. If terrorists attack, the Shinra will protect you. It seems perfect from the outside. But I'll do things differently from my old man. I'll control the world with fear. It takes too much to do it like my old man. A little fear will control the minds of the people."
(I'm not sure how much of that is exactly right, but that's close enough. Is it bad that I can type that out from memory? :( )
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Final Fantasy 8:
Edea- 6/10
Ultimecia- Blah. Pass.
Seifer- 7/10
Fujin- 7/10
Raijin- 6/10
Adel 2/10l
Final Fantasy 9:
Kuja- 1/10
Brahne- 6/10
Thorn/Zorn- 1/10
Necron- 1/10
Lani- 3/10
Beatrix- 6/10
Garland- 3/10
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Getting into the party a bit late, but hey.
Final Fantasy 7:
President Shinra- DNR; Scenery Item
Rufus- 6
Heidigger- 4
Scarlet- 3
Sephiroth- 7
Reno- 7
Rude- 6
Elena- 6
(Turks, on the whole, got a +1 point boost for group style)
Jenova- 3
Tseng- 6
Hojo- 6
Palmer- 3
Don Corneo- 2
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Final Fantasy 7:
President Shinra- 2/10 (5/10 if counting the compilation), at least his take on how to deal with Rufus was interesting
Rufus- 6/10 (9/10 if counting the compilation), and his inferiority complex is certainly most interesting. Hahaha "L"
Heidigger- 1/10
Scarlet- 3/10
Sephiroth- 3/10 (1/10 if counting the compilation) bad plot writing, go to hell.
Reno- 7/10 (5/10 if counting the compilation), style, where compilation killed much.
Rude- 5/10 (2/10 if counting the compilation), less amusing Reno
Elena- 3/10 (the same counting compilation), is there
Jenova- 3/10 I guess
Tseng- 3/10 (7/10 counting the compilation), functional and reasonable.
Hojo- 4/10 (same if counting compilation), gets points for being the root of all evil
Palmer- 2/10
Don Corneo- 2/10
Final Fantasy 8:
Edea- DNR, is Ulty when a villian
Ultimecia- 4/10, is there
Seifer- 6/10
Fujin- 6/10
Raijin- 4/10
Adel- 1/10
Final Fantasy 9:
Kuja- 6/10
Brahne- 3/10
Thorn/Zorn- 1/10
Necron- 0/10
Lani- 1/10
Beatrix- 3/10
Garland- 5/10
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It goes "work for ShinRa, get your paycheck. If terrorists attack, ShinRa's army will protect you," or something like that, right?
Actually, that's him commenting on Pres. Shinra's way of running things. "Old man tried to rule the world with money. Seems to have been working. Work for Shinra, you get paid. If terrorists attack, the Shinra will protect you. It seems perfect from the outside. But I'll do things differently from my old man. I'll control the world with fear. It takes too much to do it like my old man. A little fear will control the minds of the people."
(I'm not sure how much of that is exactly right, but that's close enough. Is it bad that I can type that out from memory? :( )
Well that makes him much more shitty. Downgrade inc.
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Failed Writeins:
Tunnel Armor(10, 1 vote)
Note: NOT a serious write-in.
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It goes "work for ShinRa, get your paycheck. If terrorists attack, ShinRa's army will protect you," or something like that, right?
Actually, that's him commenting on Pres. Shinra's way of running things. "Old man tried to rule the world with money. Seems to have been working. Work for Shinra, you get paid. If terrorists attack, the Shinra will protect you. It seems perfect from the outside. But I'll do things differently from my old man. I'll control the world with fear. It takes too much to do it like my old man. A little fear will control the minds of the people."
(I'm not sure how much of that is exactly right, but that's close enough. Is it bad that I can type that out from memory? :( )
Well that makes him much more shitty. Downgrade inc.
Man, you of all people I thought would have some kind of love for Machiavelli.
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I'm updating today. Get your votes in now!
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Clarifications: I took Niu's base FF7 ratings, not the compilation ones. Also, if you're going to DNR, say so in the post. Use DNR.
Results!
Final Fantasy 7:
President Shinra: 3.26, 19 rankers. (2 DNR)
Rufus: 6.97, 21 rankers.
Heidigger: 3.33, 21 rankers.
Scarlet: 2.90, 21 rankers.
Sephiroth: 6.28, 21 rankers.
Reno: 7.21, 21 rankers.
Rude: 4.78, 21 rankers.
Elena: 4.30, 21 rankers.
Jenova: DNR (3.00, 12 rankers.)
Tseng: 4.58, 18 rankers. (3 DNR)
Hojo: 5.35, 21 rankers.
Palmer: 3.94, 19 rankers. (2 DNR)
Don Corneo: 3.62, 16 rankers. (4 DNR)
Final Fantasy 8:
Edea: DNR (4.8, 10 rankers.)
Ultimecia: 4.11, 18 rankers.
Seifer: 4.89, 19 rankers.
Fujin: 5.21, 19 rankers.
Raijin: 4.26, 19 rankers.
Adel: 2.33, 18 rankers. (1 DNR)
Final Fantasy 9:
Kuja: 6.59, 22 rankers.
Brahne: 4.00, 21 rankers. (1 DNR)
Thorn/Zorn: 2.86, 19 rankers. (3 DNR)
Necron: 2.13, 22 rankers.
Lani: 2.60, 20 rankers. (2 DNR)
Beatrix: DNR (5.83, 10 rankers.)
Garland: 5.47, 21 rankers.
More coming in the next post.
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Top ten highest ranked villains:
1. Reno: 7.21, 21 rankers.
2. Rufus: 6.97, 21 rankers.
3. Gilgamesh: 6.84, 13 rankers.
4. Kefka: 6.67, 17 rankers.
5. Kuja: 6.59, 22 rankers.
6. Sephiroth: 6.28, 21 rankers.
7. Ultros: 6.00, 16 rankers (1 DNR)
8. Rubicant: 5.73, 17 rankers.
9. Garland: 5.47, 21 rankers.
10. Hojo: 5.35, 21 rankers.
Top ten lowest ranked villains
1. Zemus/Zeromus: 1.88, 17 rankers.
2. Necron: 2.13, 22 rankers.
3. Adel: 2.33, 18 rankers. (1 DNR)
4t. Milon: 2.6, 15 rankers (3 DNRs)
4t. Lani: 2.60, 20 rankers. (2 DNR)
6. Hein: 2.83/DNR, 6 rankers.
7t. Valvalis: 2.86, 15 rankers (3 DNRs)
7t. Thorn/Zorn: 2.86, 19 rankers. (3 DNR)
9t. Cloud of Darkhess: 2.90, 10 rankers.
9t: Scarlet: 2.90, 21 rankers.
Pile of -_-:
Baigan: DNR (2.2, 10 voters.)
Jenova: DNR (3.00, 12 rankers.)
Edea: DNR (4.8, 10 rankers.)
Beatrix: DNR (5.83, 10 rankers.)
Pile of ;_;:
Kain(1.0, 1 vote)
Tunnel Armor(10, 1 vote)
Yuffie(4.0, 1 vote)
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Not a bad round. There were surprises to me, as well as Necron getting a 9. 9. Ooooh my heaad. Anyway, we're moving onto the end of the numbered FF games now. Let's hit this and finish off the Squeenix behemoth!
Final Fantasy X:
Seymour Guado
Sin
Yu Yevon
Mika
Kinoc
Yunalesca
Jecht
Final Fantasy XII
Vayne Carudas Solidor
Judge Magister Gabranth
Judge Magister Ghis
Doctor Cidolfus Demen Bunansa
Vossler York Azelas
Venat
Final Fantasy Mystic Quest
The Dark King
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The Dark King - Gets a couple points for making up that prophecy. Otherwise, was there. 3/10.
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Seymour Guado: 6/10. He is creepy and persistent. Didn't really come across as a great character, though.
Sin: 8/10. I like Sin. He has that whole force of nature thing down well.
Yu Yevon: 4/10. Kinda cool once you learn all the backstory, but you have to go fishing for that. Otherwise he is just "this random thing that summons Sin". Have to take away some points for hidden storyline.
Mika: 7.5/10. He's basically a stand-in for the corruption of Yevon. I use corruption in a somewhat non-traditional sense here, since he himself isn't doing it for personal profit... he honestly believes that his immortal guidance of the endless cycle of summoner sacrifices and Sin rebirths is the best thing that can be done for Spira. His final scene when he learns that Yunalesca is dead is pretty haunting. Doesn't really have the kind of long-term presence for a higher score, though.
Kinoc: 6/10. They do a decent job of selling you on this guy who has descended from decent to douchebaggery over the years of being jaded by his job as a Yevon maester.
Yunalesca: 7/10. I'm always a bit iffy about her, because the game never really makes it clear if she's sincere in her belief that what she's doing is for the good of Spira. According to the backstory, she is an evil psychopath who orchestrated everything as part of her grand revenge, and thus everything she tells you is her being full of crap. But why persist in it to the moment of death? Seems like they were going with an insanity angle, maybe? Really wish they were clearer on that. The backstory makes her cool, though - you just have to love a villain spiteful enough to fuck with the entire psyche of the world for a thousand years.
Jecht: I guess he's kind of a villain to Tidus, though not in the usual RPG villain way since he's a pretty decent guy who doesn't actually actively oppose the party or anything (not inclined to hold the aeon possession against him here). Still, for his role as an emotionally abusive parent in Tidus' backstory, which is certainly realistic and isn't overplayed, he gets an 8/10.
FFX writing in general is solid but it doesn't really produce any standout "holy crap this character is amazing" person on the villain side.
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Final Fantasy X:
Seymour Guado - 7/10. Seymour was fun. Wish Yuna had hurried up and sent him after you killed him the first time, but eh, points for persistence.
Sin - 8/10. Not bad for an entity villain. I like a force of nature rampaging on technology as a change of pace from the usual reverse.
Yu Yevon - 6/10. Not bad. Fundamentally a pathetic guy given vast power, but the game doesn't really pretend otherwise. Most of the church stuff doesn't seem to be his doing anyway, more Yunalesca's idea.
Mika - 7/10 Another fundamentally kind of pathetic, scared old man who merely made a good show of being a manipulator. I'm cool with that (see high ratings for Seifer, etc.)
Kinoc - 5/10 Just kinda existed, though maybe I'm forgetting something.
Yunalesca - 7/10 . Sure, I buy the "Well, Yu Yevon's a big problem, so we need to give people hope even if our method of defeating him is impermanent."
Jecht DNR / 8/10. Great character, good antagonist for Tidus to play off of in flashbacks, but his villainous side I'm mostly scoring under Sin.
FFX-2 - 0/10. Attempts to ruin excellent story that already has an ending. Far eviller a villain than Sin, and lamer.
Final Fantasy XII
Vayne Carudas Solidor 7/10. I liked Vayne, though he loses a point for the last part of the game. He's very clearly a manipulator / politician villain; they didn't need to make him the last boss. Also, while I can kinda sorta buy a Suikoden V style intentional failure in his actions toward the very end to set up Larsa as ruler.... this is complicated by the fact Larsa fights him, and it seems like there should have been a better way to go about this? He also needs to better restrain his army (in particular: How does "recover my brother" become "burn down a holy temple?"). Anyway, what with the actions at Pharos, he seems moderately successful at putting human history back in the hands of man, and I appreciate villains who win anyway despite "losing."
Judge Magister Gabranth 5/10. I liked all of his setup prior to Pharos; giving him the task of protecting Larsa would have given him some interestingly conflicting loyalties. But he's just kind of unhinged in Pharos and the Bahamut. I was hoping for an operatic villain / tragic hero / reformed murderer / something, and he ended up being more neurotic and guilt-ridden.
Judge Magister Ghis - 4/10 Idiot, but not a particularly fun one. Yes, let's stick the super-powerful nethicite into our engine to measure it? WTF?
Doctor Cidolfus Demen Bunansa 7/10 - See Vayne, basically, since they were both in on the same plot. Also played off Balthier well.
Vossler York Azelas - 4/10. Didn't buy the betrayal at all. He's loyally served the resistance for 2 years, right? Things are just starting to look up for them in the first third of FF12. They've got a lead on getting some Weapons of Mass Destruction into their hands which is just what a small nation needs as blackmail to scare a large nation. Why on earth would you pick now as the time to give up and negotiate a settlement? He even helps the party escape in that one scene, so his decision to betray the group was made *very* late.
Venat - 6/10. See Vayne / Dr. Cid, except subtract a point for the silly fusing with Vayne. They all basically suceed, though, giving a nice middle finger to the other Occuria.
The Occuria - 3/10 On the bright side, the "appear to Vaan / Ashe while holding nethicite as dead friends encouraging them to do what the Occuria want" thing was cool! Uh, FF12 gets credit for not having its final boss be a superpowerful being from nowhere that we don't find out about until 90% of the way through.... but they did INTRODUCE the superpowerful beings who were totally plotting everything all along, you just don't fight them. And while Ashe certainly defies them at Pharos, by hunting down Venat the party still does their dirty work for them to some extent? Kind of like how MGS2 ended with a fight against Solidus rather than the Patriots. Bah. I respect wanting to make the Occuria mysterious and alien, but they went too far - we know practically nothing about what the hell they're up to aside from hating Venat and signing a treaty with Ashe's ancestors. Maybe Revenant Wings expanded on this.
Final Fantasy Mystic Quest
The Dark King - 1/10. Doesn't exist, attempted plot twist was complete stupid. Here's what your proper aspiring villain does: you make up a prophecy that you can only defeated by the legendary spatula in Farmer Johnson's kitchen. Heroes come after you but their "legendary" weapon is actually random. See, that gives you an edge. Just making up a prophecy that someone will come kill you, and having it work, is uh hrmm.
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Dark King - 3/10 -- Can I give him bonus points for the Cure weakness and the music?
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Final Fantasy X: As with FF8, I felt the PC cast was much stronger than the villain cast. I could make a blanket statement about all of these villains, frankly: if you delve deep enough into the supplementary material, they're quite interesting, but they don't DO enough on-screen. FFX had too tight a point of view to really develop its antagonists.
Seymour Guado: 6/10. Understandable, kind of cool, has his moments but ultimately never delivers on his promise as seemingly the main 'personal' villain. It almost seems like an intentional subversion of Sephiroth, Kuja and Kefka? But it's not clear enough to work for me. Would border on outright fail, but he gets three points - half a point for a marriage plot, a full point for interesting battles, and half a point for the cool factor of his introduction - even if it's ultimately subverted.
Sin: 7/10. Visually interesting - a whale-inspired villain? That's very different and cool. The revelations about its nature are also interesting and paced nicely. Interesting battles. Probably the best-used villain. Loses a point for being a faceless engine of destruction.
Yu Yevon: 2.5/10. Interesting upon deeper reflection/exploration of supplementary material, but not in the course of gameplay. Also, a not-obvious plot fight.
Mika: 6/10. Basically, is High Priest Funeral with a better translation/writing.
Kinoc: 5/10. Never really rises above being a dick.
Yunalesca: 6.5/10. Point for an interesting battle, half of one for the cool factor of the flashback scene where she pwns Auron. But, not in the game enough to go higher.
Jecht: 8/10. An extremely well written character with an interesting backstory. A cool fight that's actually interesting if you're not overleveled. All in all, top flight, although he's only barely a villain.
Final Fantasy XII: FF12 pretty much does to its whole cast what FFX does to its villains - give them too little plot screen time to shine. The writing they do get, however, is absolutely top notch, and their roles in the story ARE spelled out in the text, albeit too briefly. I would have loved another 10 or 20 hours of cut scenes from this game, more a PS1 FF/FFX ratio than the more Western style emphasizing dungeons and gameplay.
Vayne Carudas Solidor: 8/10. I agree he shouldn't have been the final boss/had a plot fusion. But he remains an interesting character, especially if you take it that he intentionally positioned Larsa to oppose him and take his place. Depending on whether or not you see the Larsa thing as his intent (or at least as his backup plan), one of the great schemers. I'd have liked more screen time for him.
Judge Magister Gabranth: 5.5/10. Never an interesting fight, and he wasn't in the game enough for his story to have the impact it should have. Point for the story there was being good.
Judge Magister Ghis: 5/10. Epic fail in a way I personally found highly entertaining, but a great karmic death doesn't make up for little presence.
Doctor Cidolfus Demen Bunansa: 7/10. A theatrical mad scientist who was a dick, but basically right. That's an unusual character type and he pulled it off nicely. As with most FF12 villains, I'd have liked more of him on-screen.
Vossler York Azelas: 3/10. Point for an interesting battle, but as mentioned above, what a dumbass. >_<
Venat: 3/10. Interesting conceptually, but essentially no presence at all. Additional point docked for being responsible for Vayne's plot fusion, which lessened him as a villain.
The Occuria: 6/10. Extraordinary manipulators, at least minor cosmic beings, who are ultimately titanic dicks? I liked the portrayal of the Occuria a lot, and didn't really mind not getting to fight them. They weren't the sort of antagonists who needed to be fought, they were the sort who needed to be told to shove it, which Ashe did. Props.
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Seymour Guado 5/10
Sin 5/10
Yu Yevon 5/10
Mika 5/10
Kinoc 5/10
Yunalesca 5/10
Jecht 6/10
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Final Fantasy X:
Seymour Guado - 6/10 - I never really loved to hate him. I got mildly annoyed at the marriage plot, which only seemed to serve to highlight that Yuna and Tidus were adolescent drama queens who couldn't accept reality because 'they were in lo~ove'. This bothered me as I liked Yuna and Tidus in most other scenes, voice-acting aside. Seymour himself seemed to have an interesting backstory with how he grew up with the Guado, but I was never really sold on the idea that "I was born a mixed breed, so I'm crazy". He does get points for being driven enough to keep at his goals despite being Unsent. That was always a bit chilling to me.
Sin - 8/10 - Hard to separate him from Jecht to me. As a piece of the setting, he serves his purpose well, and the story presents him as an omnipresent menace that the world's culture has grown up around. Points for "Nature destroys Machina", for all that Sin himself didn't really seem to care about Machina one way or the other and that story was just ingrained into the Yevonite religion by its leaders.
Yu Yevon - 6/10 - Ties into the Yevonite religion pretty well. He's really only backstory, so it's hard to rate him much higher. The perception of him as a character is noticeably dynamic, so he gets an extra point above average.
Mika - 7/10 - The religious fanatic convinced that he's doing what's necessary for the world. Except... he's believable. He's continuing the cycle of sending Summoners to die, but if you look at the people of Spira, despite the somewhat ominous presence of Sin, they lead fairly happy lives. And sacrificing one person every few years, especially in such a heroic way, well... it's pretty tame compared to most religious fanatics. You can honestly believe that he's doing what he thinks is best for the world. He's not insane, he's just not in love with Yuna.
Kinoc - 4/10 - Meh, was there.
Yunalesca - 6/10 - Never really felt like I got to know her, despite the backstory. Being Unsent just isn't as cool once Seymour did it.
Jecht - 9/10 - Can't fully separate him from Sin, but pre-Sin Jecht and Tidus' views of him in flashback are pretty awesome. Basically, my favorite part of FFX.
Final Fantasy XII
Vayne Carudas Solidor - 7/10
Judge Magister Gabranth - 5/10
Judge Magister Ghis - 3/10
Doctor Cidolfus Demen Bunansa - 8/10
Vossler York Azelas - 5/10
Venat - 6/10
The Occuria - 7/10
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It goes "work for ShinRa, get your paycheck. If terrorists attack, ShinRa's army will protect you," or something like that, right?
Actually, that's him commenting on Pres. Shinra's way of running things. "Old man tried to rule the world with money. Seems to have been working. Work for Shinra, you get paid. If terrorists attack, the Shinra will protect you. It seems perfect from the outside. But I'll do things differently from my old man. I'll control the world with fear. It takes too much to do it like my old man. A little fear will control the minds of the people."
(I'm not sure how much of that is exactly right, but that's close enough. Is it bad that I can type that out from memory? :( )
Well that makes him much more shitty. Downgrade inc.
Man, you of all people I thought would have some kind of love for Machiavelli.
"Rule the world with fear of me" is not nearly as interesting as "rule the world with fear of someone else which I cultivate" to me. It would have been one of the more cerebral things I've seen in a FF game. However, the former option just makes you a generic evil empire in this context, and I like to think Machiavelli was a LITTLE craftier than that.
Anyway... as far as FFXII goes, I can't be the only one who wanted Cid to win. The PCs were just hatchetmen for some stupid ghosts what wanted to pull our strings anyway. Cid was trying to right the course of human history. His flaw was that his goals were too damn big.
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Machiavelli was a little craftier than that, but when it came down to it, rule through fear was his last resort and he did have no faith in ruling through money. Rufus being competent enough to know that he is unable (for whatever reason, probably incompetence) to rule by being loved and having no more credible enemies (Wutai? Not anymore) that the people can identify and fear (They... are supposed to be scared of Jenova or Sephiroth who they have not heard of or used to be their hero?). Avalanche just are way to shit at their job to be a real threat. Even though the Reactor bombing really should have been 11 September 2001 level stuff (Not that you can blame FF7 for not knowing the degree of response to expect from the world's largest military at that point....) the NPC just don't seem to give a shit about Avalanche in general, the Cosmo Canyon guys even have a bit of a Tibet thing going there.
So Rufus may be incompetent, but he knows just how incompetent he is. You go Rufus!
(This post is obviously for the Ciatos)
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Final Fantasy X:
Seymour Guado: 2/10. Generic dick. Never really caught on with me at all.
Sin: 7/10: Sin worked for what it was.
Yu Yevon: 1/10: Meh.
Mika: 5/10
Kinoc: 5/10: I barely remember these two.
Yunalesca: 4/10: Meh again.
Jecht: 6/10
Final Fantasy Mystic Quest
The Dark King: 3/10. Style.
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Seymour Guado - 5/10. Not a fan, but I like the motivation. Bonus points for reasoning behind his way of thinking.
Sin - DNR. Mindless vessel, doesn't actually do anything on its own.
Yu Yevon - 2/10. He's a religion, basically. Not much else. Kinda 'ugh' to me personally.
Mika - 3/10. Works as a villain but, hey, some personality might've been nice! More than "I am an evil old man."
Kinoc - 4/10. Interesting enough for his role, but too little screentime to actually do anything of interest. Also gets screwed over completely in the most pathetic of ways.
Yunalesca - 7/10. Now this I like. Seems to be the main controller of the Yevon thing, manipulates the figureheads of the religion brilliantly and has some semblance of personality as well. w00t.
Jecht - 8/10. More for his character than his villainy, because Jecht is just quite awesome. Nothing amazingly special, but nothing to dislike.
Final Fantasy XII
Vayne Carudas Solidor - 2/10. Medieval Hitler. Doesn't work well in a fantasy setting,
Judge Magister Gabranth - 5/10. Average. Gains points for the nice setup at the start, loses points for his ambiguous villain/ally screw-things-over-at-the-most-stupid-of-times style.
Judge Magister Ghis - 1/10. Ho-hum, seems I was thinking of the wrong one before. In that case, lol does nothing.
Doctor Cidolfus Demen Bunansa - 9/10. The shining glimmer of hope in FFXII. Amazing as a villain, a brilliant reason to fight, and a villain that you actually kinda agree with. Awesome.
Vossler York Azelas - 2/10. Bleh. Did not like Vossler at all, not much to be said really.
Venat - 5/10. The puppeteer. Not much else, but does provide the reasoning for Dr. Cid and, hence, has good motivation of his own. Shame most of his actions are attributed to Vayne and/or Dr. Cid.
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Final Fantasy X
Seymour Guado: 7/10 - I do like the way he acts (his "then pretend you didn't hear that" line was gold) and his methodical approach. I did also like that while he was powerful and had resources, things didn't all the time go according to his will and he frequently had to patch his plans. He looses a point for his looks as it's both so ridiculous it irritates me and is such that you can see he's a villain by just looking at him. His backstory felt a bit lacking. I can see where they wanted to go, but I didn't get the impression that his backstory really would lead him to where he's now.
Sin: 7/10 - A giant mindless monsters that roams and more or less randomly causes destruction? What's not to like? However, any form of backstory or actual character Sin has I have to credit either Yu Yevon or Jecht.
Yu Yevon: 3/10 - Despite being the one who controls Sin and is the cause for most of Spira's current problems, he has little to nothing going for himself. Is also portrayed as really powerful, but doesn't deliver.
Mika: 4/10 - Believable religious nutjob. Still didn't have much going for himself and his main purpose seemed to be to give Seymour a free reign. There wasn't anything cool or interesting or in any way or shape anything noteable about his character.
Kinoc: 4/10 - He kind of was there. While he had a backstory and the pretense of dept, it did really nothing for him. Remove Kinoc's backstory and absolutely nothing changes about his character. If anything, his backstory served to add characterization to Auron, which I must admit is a good cause, so one bonus point or something.
Yunalesca: 3/10 - A drama queen, although surprisingly not that annoying. Her attitude of just killing anyone problematic is a bit amusing. However, I subtract one point for her (lack of) outfit, so she's back at the bland character position.
Jecht: 6/10 - I've never given a crap about his and Tidus' backstory. Still, him calling Tidus a crybaby was amusing and I like that he wanted Tidus to succeed in order to free himself rather than for the good of Spira.
Final Fantasy XII
Vayne Carudas Solidor: 7/10 - A solid villain. That was however all. He wasn't notable cool or stylish or had anything awesome going for him. His struggle against the undying did nothing for me.
Judge Magister Gabranth: 2/10 - Most of what he said just struck me as incomprehensible static. Something about shame and probably something about a troubled past as well. Also came of as a complete moron. "Basch, watch your friends die! Of course, I'm fighting alone against six which makes this threat about as credible as a poodle snarling at a Lion." I can't even figure what Square was trying to do with him.
Judge Magister Ghis: 4/10 - He did serve as someone to pound on just nicely. Not much else to it. I think he had more screentime besides that, but nothing that really matters.
Doctor Cidolfus Demen Bunansa: 5/10 - Muahahahaha, I'm batshit insane. Turns out he's just a little insane instead of the complete nutjob he acts like. He does have a motivation and all that, but his style didn't sell to me and he lacks screentime.
Vossler York Azelas: 3/10 - I didn't buy his motivation to side with the empire. Also demonstrates what happens when dramatic scenes becomes a routine, his last dying words were completely pointless and seemed to be there just because someone felt he needed last words.
Venat: 3/10 - Does he even have a character?
Final Fantasy Mystic Quest
The Dark King: 3/10 - He's there and you hit him.
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Machiavelli was a little craftier than that, but when it came down to it, rule through fear was his last resort and he did have no faith in ruling through money. Rufus being competent enough to know that he is unable (for whatever reason, probably incompetence) to rule by being loved and having no more credible enemies (Wutai? Not anymore) that the people can identify and fear (They... are supposed to be scared of Jenova or Sephiroth who they have not heard of or used to be their hero?). Avalanche just are way to shit at their job to be a real threat. Even though the Reactor bombing really should have been 11 September 2001 level stuff (Not that you can blame FF7 for not knowing the degree of response to expect from the world's largest military at that point....) the NPC just don't seem to give a shit about Avalanche in general, the Cosmo Canyon guys even have a bit of a Tibet thing going there.
So Rufus may be incompetent, but he knows just how incompetent he is. You go Rufus!
(This post is obviously for the Ciatos)
Well, if ruling through fear of him was his original plan, it changed in to the much superior fear of other stuff on the second disc, when giant monsters start showing up and he decides to take the bat to them at a ridiculous cost in manpower. People love him for doing that shit.
But yeah, Machiavelli was about having foreigners fear him, not really his own people. Citizens are more productive when they don't need to be shackled to things, after all.
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You know what? I think I'm not going to DNR anymore, since now I'm getting confused as to what my criteria are >_>
Seymour Guado - 7.0 - Relatively decent, although to be honest, I completely forgot he existed at the end >_> He's big to start, then dies...then comes back with evil Yuna marrying (though, that would be something he suffers from - god, that voice), then dies...then comes back...then dies...then disappears for a bit, then finally shows back up. In between all of this, his backstory is decent - his mother becoming an Aeon setting him on the course to become the thing he hated is relatively neat, and he is bloody persistent, though I can only give so many points for that since...well, I didn't feel like he was that threatening. Still...could go up?
Sin - DNR - Ok, I lied. I...have a lot of trouble ranking Sin, as I feel that the "villainy" of Sin is more in the atmosphere around it, i.e., people like Mika, Seymour, Jecht, etc. I just can't rank him reasonably without think of other issues, and a force of nature alone...feels hard for me to rank on villainy/badness.
Yu Yevon - 5.0 - Really needed a lot more exposure, although it is really neat the entire story around him. Still...not all of that is entirely him, and...it's kind of hard to have feelings for a metroid unless you're Samus Aran >_>
Mika - 6.5 - Eh...while he is excellent for keeping the ritual of suicide going for as long as he did, it is partly everyone in combination too. I also feel like he doesn't have the personality to really push himself to the forefront of my mind, for all that he is a behind-the-scenes guy. Granted, the being unsent and scaring the hell out of the other Maesters and basically sending himself is pretty damn ballsy - "Hah, the world is fucked, kthnxbai Yuna". The deception, though, is a function of everyone in on it, not just him.
Kinoc - 2.5 - As Crystalgate said, helps Auron with his backstory more than himself, and is otherwise just there.
Yunalesca - 4.5 - She's...not that present until later, which kind of sucks. She felt like she was mostly there - I think the game needed to explain a bit more the triangle here of Mika - Yunalesca - Yu Yevon. Her, "this is the best we can do" speech was done already by loads of better people. Granted, a point for fighting the party's "stupidity", unlike Mika (although Mika's is, as the Elf put it, far more haunting).
Jecht - 8.5 - Like I said for Sin, multiple people weave the tapestry of the beast here. Jecht leads it to me - he's not necessarily a villain, but definitely a bad guy to Tardus. Again, I want to make note that I wish the game explained the Fayth/Zanarkand thing a bit better, but I digress. He's good at being the villain he needs to be, and I think he understands that, so it's a good guy in the position of being the bad guy. Neat.
Plot question for FFX - am I remembering this right? Tardus, Jecht, and Zanarkand of the past are dreams of the Fayth, which are the spirits of the dead. Due to Sin's ravages (brought on by Yu Yevon creating the beast as a shell to protect his dream world, a.k.a., Zanarkand before the war with Bevelle), the Fayth, restless and tormented because of this madness, try to stop this - they take their dreams and make them "real" and give them "life" and a "purpose" (Jecht pulled from his dream world into the "real" world, becomes a better person - Tardus, knowing his father is Sin, has a resolve to stop him to come to terms with hating him - thus, Tardus will help push Yuna to defeat Sin the right way, by killing the source, Yu Yevon). In between this, we have the Yevon church that knows all about this (Yu Yevon founding it, and teaching machina are bad after Zanarkand was nuked, punishing the world with Sin's arrival) and keeps everyone in the dark about this (granted, only the higher-ups really know much, I'd assume), Auron (the guardian of Braska, who knows everything, and because he's the equivalent of a Fayth, is able to help them on their quest by bringing Tardus out of the dream into the "real" world, and guide him to the end), and a host of other people with varying knowledge of the situation. I really do like FFX a lot, and the story is rich - the problem is it could use better presentation. FFXII, while with a more general story (that borrows elements from it), does explain things better. Aaaaaaanyway...
Vayne Carudas Solidor - 9.5 - He is neat. Begins as what seems to be a generally good guy! Then you hear a lot about him, and you start to wonder. Then he starts to do some things that are odd as hell. Then he acts like a bad man and kills his daddy. He also LOOKS like the evil politician guy/manipulator/Machiavelli, which is NICE. And he's doing all this to set his brother up as ruler (with the caveat that it's on HIS terms - not the way the senate wants it), and to beat some godlike creatures that, while they can't directly intervene, have shaped history for a long time. He's interesting, though the end is a little odd (again, he's...not really much of a final boss personality), but definitely explainable (Larsa fighting him was the final "test", giving him the strength to lead the way he needs to). The guy's pretty brilliant overall.
Judge Magister Gabranth - 7.0 - Snowfire is right that he falls apart towards the end at Pharos/Bahamut, but that's...supposed to be the point. He begins very set and for the empire, but starts to doubt, and finally feel the connection of brotherhood and honour, and sees that his brother has a point. We do get the conflict - he just doesn't do it in the most...ideal way.
Judge Magister Ghis - 2.0 - Generic and dies really freaking fast. He's present for, what, 3 scenes and a battle? Pathetic.
Doctor Cidolfus Demen Bunansa - 8.0 - Worked with Vayne, the only difference being he's much less present. Nonetheless, still awesome.
Vossler York Azelas - 6.0 - Kind of...off. Similar to Gabranth, except that, well...he does place duty high, but duty to country first. He's very honest in this, and does believe in doing what's right. His betrayal...it was odd, I will agree, but...not so odd to the point it feels completely off, though yeah, points down.
Venat - 5.0 - See Cid and Vayne, subtract more for less time. Also, the parallels I could draw between the Occuria and the Fayth >_>
The Dark King - 1.0 - Come on - even I really can't hype him >_>
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OK: Yeah, that's pretty much it, as far as FFX plot goes. One important distinction to make, though, is that while Yevon knows about Yu Yevon recreating Sin, they don't know about Dream Zanarkand, or even the history that led Yu Yevon to create Sin in the first place. You're right that they're keeping Spira in the dark about an important detail (the fact that defeating Sin via Final Summoning will NEVER prevent Sin from coming back), though.
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Final Fantasy X:
Seymour Guado: 6/10. I dunno, he works I guess.
Sin/Yu Yevon: To my mind, Yu Yevon is kinda a plot device to explain how Sin survives being Final Aeon'd and to give you something to kill and end the game. Sooooo yeah, he and Sin are synonymous.
Preamble aside, 9/10. The immensity of Sin, how deeply ingrained it was in Spira's culture, everything about it is just so BIG for the entire game. Because the villain is presented as being a threat to the entire world the entire game, it has something all the other "rarr WORLD SMASH""ohshit we gotta save teh world" come up a little short on. The history behind it and Yu Yevon's nature are also kinda neat.
Mika: 6/10
Kinoc: 4/10
Yunalesca: 5/10.
Jecht: 7/10. It's funny, he's not really a villain (since he's not really willingly into the whole Sin thing) but he's such a clear antagonist for Tidus that I'll gladly let that slide.
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Final Fantasy X:
Seymour Guado: 6/10. Not much in the way of a character, but he worked for his role as a hatable prick well enough.
Sin: 7/10. Probably the best handled "non-intelligent" villain I've seen. That can only get him so high, but yeah.
Yu Yevon: 3/10. Had a whole elaborate plan, but for the most part, was a plot device that didn't really mean much.
Mika: 7/10. Good at the evil priest thing or something/
Kinoc: 5/10. Felt like he needed a little more back story to truly work for what they intended, and considering his supposed friendship with Auron, they had easy elements to work it in.
Yunalesca: 7/10. Kneejerk; she played her role well enough.
Jecht: As a villain, 3/10, mostly cause he's kind of just one by victim of circumstance. He'd be higher as a CHARACTER, mind.
Final Fantasy XII
Vayne Carudas Solidor: 6.5/10. Would have been really good if not hit hard by FF12 plot syndrome; what is there is generally good stuff though. Loses half a point for the plot fusion bullshit which seems to clash with his ideals, and personality (ok, so being desperate enough to use Nethicite? I can buy that, but once he lost there, I felt like he would have just conceited defeat, not resort to I NEED ANGELIC FINAL BOSS FORM Bullshit.)
Judge Magister Gabranth: 7/10. Somewhat of a better written Seifer, in that he's similar in a lot of ways, but isn't an immense whiner. He starts off this high and mighty position, seemingly having everything...but slowly loses this iron clad composure to the point where by the end, he's pretty much envious of Basch, who despite having nothing, is able to live a full and content life, and can't understand why, and the progression made sense. His sacrificing himself for Larsa at the end even felt believable, which helped shed light on how he wasn't actually a bad guy, just had his beliefs drastically differing. He'd be higher if, again, FF12 Plot issues didn't kick in.
Judge Magister Ghis: 4/10. Fails. Gets a point cause I'm sure his idiocy on the Leviathan was intended and it was somewhat amusing <_<.
Doctor Cidolfus Demen Bunansa: 6/10. Honestly? Felt like just a henchman to Vayne and didn't really DO much besides be that. He wasn't offensive or anything, just...didn't stand out...he does, however, get a point for awesome voice acting.
Vossler York Azelas: 6/10. Believable betrayal and you can kind of sympathize with his side, but...as a villain, I can't honestly place him higher, cause his role as villain is just too short lived, and I'm honestly not sure if he was actually planning all that, or if he more just seized the opportunity cause he was fed up.
Venat: 3/10. First off, a really good concept. I won't deny that. The problem? Good concept means jack shit when the execution is atrocious. Venat added *NOTHING* to the Vayne/Cid plot; I felt the two of them just coming to this "fuck the Occuria" stance on their own would have been believable enough based on their own showings. She comes in out of nowhere, and completely undermines the interesting political stuff by just being cliche despite the potential to be really good. She then is part of what felt like a massive out of character move for Vayne, and just resulted in a stupid extra final boss just cause. Its really hard to say she served ANY purpose when the role the Occurria play in FF12 is so minor, we know almost nothing about their backstory besides "They think they're gods, and Venat eventually split and opposed them cause she doesn't agree." Having no real backstory or explanation beyond that, its no wonder she completely failed at her role.
I also refuse to give points for association cause, lets face it; you're giving points to a character for the work of ANOTHER character, and in this case, I'm not convinced at all she was needed to make Vayne/Cid believable...if anything, I think she made it worse.
Final Fantasy Mystic Quest
The Dark King: 4/10. Cliche, but gets a point for basically lying about a prophecy only to instill false hope upon the land...only to see the prophecy actually come true <_<
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Final Fantasy X:
Seymour Guado- A creepy in your face villain, I like, 7/10
Sin- DNR, is really Yevon
Yu Yevon- See CK, lacking a personality is this thing only flaw 7/10
Mika- Worked for what he is 5/10
Kinoc- Same here 5/10
Yunalesca- A vengeful bitch who spreads false hope, remains an unsent just because she hates the world that much. Yeah, psychotic bitches are always my favorite 9/10
Jecht- DNR I would say. But his relationship with Tidus is well written never the less. 7/10
Final Fantasy XII
Vayne Carudas Solidor- A different version of Dycedarg, who is a lot more likable. Despite wanting to become a conquer himself, he still remain fairly human and knows his limit. How he set all the things up for Larsa, feeling the responsible for Venat and Cid, and his confrontation with his dad are all fairly touching. 7/10
Judge Magister Gabranth- Go away you stupid dog, 3/10
Judge Magister Ghis- You too, 2/10
Doctor Cidolfus Demen Bunansa- Hail humanism!! It is refreshing to have a villain of this sort, and he pulled the mad scientist thing fairly well. Too bad his relationship with his son is lacking. 7/10
Vossler York Azelas- His villain role is short, despite his reason of betrayal is sympathetic enough 5/10
Venat- She desperately needs screen time, really didn't do much despite being a good concept.... 4/10
Final Fantasy Mystic Quest
The Dark King- Is there, 2/10
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Final Fantasy X:
Seymour Guado - 5/10. Not too shabby, for all that he just makes me think of Kuja Lite.
Sin - 4/10. I'm generally not a fan of the "force of nature" type villains. I dunno, they just don't interest me. Still, Sin was legitimately threatening and caused a fair share of strife, so I can't give it a terrible rating like I want to.
Yu Yevon - Don't remember him enough to give him an accurate rating.
Mika - Ditto.
Kinoc - Ditto.
Yunalesca - 7/10. Probably my favorite villain of the cast. I just thought her backstory was really interesting and I found her to be fairly believable. She desperately needed more screen time, though.
Jecht - DNR. Tidus is the real villain, so anyone who antagonizes him is okay in my book.
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Vayne Carudas Solidor - Sucks the least in the cast 4/10 still though.
Judge Magister Gabranth - lol 1/10
Judge Magister Ghis - 2/10 is lolness is laughable. Which is more than twinsie there.
Doctor Cidolfus Demen Bunansa - 3/10 for evil cid
Vossler York Azelas - 2/10 +1 for wanting to kill party and end my suffering.
Venat - Forgot who the hell this was until I read someone's post. 1/10 for that.
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I'm giving this a midweek bump. Get your votes in!
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Final Fantasy X:
Seymour Guado - 6/10
Sin - 8/10
Yu Yevon - 4/10
Mika - 6/10
Kinoc - 4/10
Yunalesca - 7/10
Jecht - 8/10
Might explain later.
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I'm going to be updating this late tonight or tomorrow or maybe Monday. Bad sentence structure aside, get your votes in now!
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Final Fantasy X:
Seymour Guado- Asshat and a creeper. Pretty good at being villainous, but hard to take seriously all the time. 5/10.
Sin- 7/10. Menacing malice dude
Yu Yevon~- 1/10
Mika- 7/10. The manipulator.
Kinoc- 7/10. I like him. He's really good at what a non-sympathetic villain should be good at- you wanting to rip out his spine.
Yunalesca- 2/10. Bad.
Jecht- 7/10. He's fine, also nice and hatable. Not sure if I consider him a villain.
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I was told I had to comment here or rabid Kos would storm my apartment. You don't fuck around with threats like that.
Final Fantasy X:
Seymour Guado: 4/10. Yeah, they don't even try to hide what he is. Uninteresting, but not aggravating.
Sin: 7/10. It's hard for an amorphous incarnation of death to have any charisma--and Sin kinda doesn't. But its effect on the world is omnipresent, and that's worth something.
Yu Yevon: 4/10, has no presence or screentime, but I found the idea of someone so afraid of death they'd damn the whole world to avoid their own to be pretty memoerable.
Mika: I don't remember which one of these church dudes was which.
Kinoc: I don't remember which one of these church dudes was which.
Yunalesca: 4/10. Eye candy. Yeah, boobs are worth a couple points, that and a striking boss fight.
Jecht: 9/10. Jecht is pretty cool. Aside from being laid back and not at all textbook villainous, there's something very amusing about having your final boss be a drunk redneck pro athlete.
Final Fantasy XII
Vayne Carudas Solidor: 3/10. That endgame transformation was just too ridiculous for me to remember anything they might've done right with him.
Judge Magister Gabranth: 4/10. I...guess he wasn't really objectionable.
Judge Magister Ghis: 2/10. This is that dumbass that blew himself up, right? Yeah, that should explain the score well enough.
Doctor Cidolfus Demen Bunansa: 5/10. Too much of a cackling madman, but he did have a point.
Vossler York Azelas: 3/10. Traitor for some reason I don't remember, which isn't encouraging. FFXII PLOT.
Venat: 2/10. Did he/she/it even have lines? Whatever. It was barely there, but 1/10 is reserved for true hate.
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Seymour Guado 4/10. He's a joke. His backstory is decent, and he's good at first. But by the end...
Sin 8/10. Extremely effective.
Mika 7
Kinoc 7
Jecht 7
FF 12
Honestly, plot scenes were so infrequent here that I find it difficult to really specifically remember these guys.
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Final Fantasy X:
Seymour Guado: 4. Starts off strong, then fails...and fails...and fails some more, losing track of his original motivations and style. By the time you meet him Inside Sin he feels like an obligatory roadblock.
Sin: 5. Good for what it was, which being "random destruction" won't get it high.
Yu Yevon: 2. The backstory behind it was pretty stupid though.
Mika: 4. Some points for believing his Justice I guess?
Kinoc: 2. Meh.
Yunalesca: 3. Meh.
Jecht: 9. Quite literally a designated villain, which made for a very interesting conflict with his character, and, of course, Tidus. Good stuff.
Final Fantasy XII
Vayne Carudas Solidor: 4. I get what they were going for here but it fell completely flat, especially with the "threat" that is Rozarria Empire being represented by a group of like two sympathetic people in the game. Desperately needed more plot scenes to establish his intentions too.
Judge Magister Gabranth: 4. He's not much by himself really, but the way he's portrayed as completely delusional in the end struck me as well done, even if it was perhaps somewhat unintentional. *gets beaten down in 15 seconds* BASCH, YOUR FRIENDS ARE DYING!
Judge Magister Ghis: 4. Comedy points for perhaps the single most blatantly stupid stunt pulled by a RPG character.
Doctor Cidolfus Demen Bunansa: 9. Ah, yes. I liked the whole "History back into the reins of man" thing he had going on, and how he went about trying to achieve that. Also massive style points for the perfect English VA job. You can tell he just loves talking about his grandiose plans and acting ultra-dramatic as the "savior of mankind". Bright spot of the FF12 plot, definitely.
Vossler York Azelas: 6. His desperate selling his soul for the greater good thing worked as a motivation.
Venat: 3. Meh. Good concept but atrocious execution.
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Final Fantasy X:
Seymour Guado - 7.0 - Reminds me of watching a football match of the home team. Starts off incredibly strong, then begins wavering and by the end he's just there. He's getting a 7, though, because I like tenacity in a recurring villain, and when I entered Sin I was sort of hoping to kill this bitch once and for all. Gets bonus points for "So you'd oppose me, too?" against Anima.
Sin - 5.0 - "Wait, what? We need to fight that thing?" I liked the story around him, and how he was looming over you all the time. Sadly, aside from one scene, he really only looms.
Yu Yevon - 1.0 - Disappointing.
Mika - Who?
Kinoc - Completely off the charts of memory.
Yunalesca - 7.0 - Yes, I like her that much. Is she an actual villain, though? She kept Sin in check, and sure, you made sacrifices. But you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs. Her being the turning point gives her most of her points - after defeating Yunalesca, you get the entire "... what now?" feeling, as you just completed your journey and find out you need to backtrack and find out how to deal with Sin.
Jecht - ... Eh.
Final Fantasy Mystic Quest
The Dark King - 6.0 - Nostalgia.
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Yu Yevon: 4/10, has no presence or screentime, but I found the idea of someone so afraid of death they'd damn the whole world to avoid their own to be pretty memoerable.
It if more REVENGE!! rather than simply danming the world for their own survival. Its motive is identical with Yunalesca, they can't tolerate the world to be populate only by their invaders.
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The results are in!
Final Fantasy X:
Seymour Guado: 5.53, 19 rankers.
Sin: 6.87, 16 rankers. (3 DNR)
Yu Yevon: 3.85, 17 rankers.
Mika: 5.81, 16 rankers.
Kinoc: 4.65, 16 rankers.
Yunalesca: 5.61, 18 rankers.
Jecht: 7.30, 15 rankers. (3 DNR)
Final Fantasy XII
Vayne Carudas Solidor: 5.90, 11 rankers.
Judge Magister Gabranth: 4.40, 11 rankers.
Judge Magister Ghis: 3.00, 11 rankers.
Doctor Cidolfus Demen Bunansa: 6.72, 11 rankers.
Vossler York Azelas: 4.09, 11 rankers.
Venat: 3.72, 11 rankers.
Final Fantasy Mystic Quest:
The Dark King: 2.87, 8 rankers.
More coming in the next post!
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Top ten highest ranked villains:
1. Jecht: 7.30, 15 rankers. (3 DNR)
2. Reno: 7.21, 21 rankers.
3. Rufus: 6.97, 21 rankers.
4. Sin: 6.87, 16 rankers. (3 DNR)
5. Gilgamesh: 6.84, 13 rankers.
6. Doctor Cidolfus Demen Bunansa: 6.72, 11 rankers.
7. Kefka: 6.67, 17 rankers.
8. Kuja: 6.59, 22 rankers.
9. Sephiroth: 6.28, 21 rankers.
10. Ultros: 6.00, 16 rankers (1 DNR)
Top ten lowest ranked villains
1. Zemus/Zeromus: 1.88, 17 rankers.
2. Necron: 2.13, 22 rankers.
3. Adel: 2.33, 18 rankers. (1 DNR)
4t. Milon: 2.6, 15 rankers (3 DNRs)
4t. Lani: 2.60, 20 rankers. (2 DNR)
6. Hein: 2.83/DNR, 6 rankers.
7t. Valvalis: 2.86, 15 rankers (3 DNRs)
7t. Thorn/Zorn: 2.86, 19 rankers. (3 DNR)
9. The Dark King: 2.87, 8 rankers.
10t. Cloud of Darkhess: 2.90, 10 rankers.
10t: Scarlet: 2.90, 21 rankers.
Here be Rinoas:
Baigan: DNR (2.2, 10 voters.)
Jenova: DNR (3.00, 12 rankers.)
Edea: DNR (4.8, 10 rankers.)
Beatrix: DNR (5.83, 10 rankers.)
Here be Squalls:
Kain(1.0, 1 vote)
Tunnel Armor(10, 1 vote)
Yuffie(4.0, 1 vote)
The Occuria(5.33, 3 votes)
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FFX was fun, The Dark King was filler and FFXII inspires middling votes and apathy, 'cept for Cid. This sounds about right, so let's move along now.
Please not that due to FFT's nature that I'm including some borderline villains. Feel free to DNR as you please.
Final Fantasy Tactics:
Miluda
Wiegraf
Golagros
Algus
Gafgarion
Delita
Bart
Cardinal Draclau
Zalmo
Izlude
Barinten
Celia
Lede
Elmdor
Dycedarg
High Priest Funeral
Vormav
Kletian
Rofel
Balk
Altima
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance:
Queen Remedi
Mewt
Llendar
Cid
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance 2:
Illua
Ewen
Neukhia
Duke Snakeheart
Maquis
Alys
Night Dancer
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Extra note:
I'll be leaving this one up 2 weeks in deference to DL con.
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Final Fantasy Tactics: (All my rankings here may change as others remind me of things with their votes.)
Miluda - 8/10. I'll be blunt, I actually liked her a lot. She made a ton of sense for what she was, and worked as a foil to shunt Ramza onto a different path in some ways, I think? Iunno. Maybe just me, but I thought she served as impetus for a lot of what we saw from Ramza later. (I may hate FFT plot something fierce, but I like the characters. Funny that.)
Wiegraf - 6/10. Was good up until accepting space flea Velius, then kinda dropped to "lol will kill". I mean, I get why he accepted it, but past that he didn't interest me as much.
Golagros - 4/10. Hey, an actually decently executed kidnapping plot?! and then he dies.
Algus - 2/10. Smacked violently of hypocrisy to me, never quite appreciated that since it would seem he would know better conceptually ('hey, this made your grandfather reviled, maybe the same sorta tactics to the people who helped you out a fair bit earlier isn't a good idea despite classist presumptions'?) Then again, I'm biased against nobility figures, usually.
Gafgarion - 5/10. Meanwhile, he's the professional merc, which works pretty well but kinda didn't resonate with me, oddly.
Delita - 9/10 (DNR). Worked quite well as an instigator, but he was never really hostile to the group per se and so I can't see him as being villainous. Third party, probably, for me?
Bart - ...I don't remember him.
Cardinal Draclau - 4/10. Not enough scenes.
Zalmo - 5/10. Gets a point for being the RELENTLESS HERETIC HUNTER and a point for dying on top of a bell tower.
Izlude - 8/10. Liked him and what he ended up doing in-plot, also wanted to see more of him but.
Barinten - 10/10. To use a comparison Dune will understand, mortal Esthan. Real goddamn villainous (mostly implied, but...) jackass with no compunctions. Hate his guts, too. >_>
Celia - DNR, don't recall them having much line-age.
Lede - DNR, see Celia.
Elmdor - 7/10, probably at least one point comes from being the kidnapped person early on and thus providing "waitwut" twist.
Dycedarg - 6/10. The mushrooms, the mushrooms!
High Priest Funeral - DNR, don't remember him as even getting a line in-game. This relegates him to "plot evil, never shows up" status.
Vormav - 9/10. Manipulating bastard, probably the brains behind the entire thing in some ways.
Kletian - DNR, see Celia. Does he show up ever outside of that one fight?
Rofel - 7/10. Memory places him as Vormav's flunky who had a grudge against Ramza? I may recall incorrectly here.
Balk - 3/10. Nuisance villain, works for that but not much else.
Altima - 5/10, end Space Flea with some interesting lead-in.
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance:
Queen Remedi - 3/10. Wins points for causing other players of the game mass suffering.
Mewt - 4/10. Kinda just... a cowardly kid. All sympathy evaporated when we saw his effects on Ivalice.
Llendar - 4/10, Mewt.
Cid - 3/10, was just kinda there?
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance 2: (Warning, may be spoilers.)
Illua - 6/10. Gets a point above Mewt simply by being weak to THE POWER OF LITERACY. Seriously, when your biggest issue isn't the main character, but the main character's book? You just got relegated to "serious comedy" villain. The other point is for enticing some of the best snarky comments in the game from Luso and Cid.
Ewen - 3/10. One point for being the first Judge-sealer and getting Luso emo about it. Still really generic.
Neukhia - 4/10. Giant Space Flea From Nowhere who is... a boss that doesn't first show up at the end! He shows up 3/4ths of the way through! And then got a bit of explanation later! Yeah, sure, 5 works.
Duke Snakeheart - 8/10. As a villain? Intelligent but flawed, and a -complete asshole-. Two major plot events are attributable to him at the end, and as a result some things get -badly- fubar'd.
EDIT: Duke Snakeheart is super, too. So.
Maquis - 8/10. Actually... had decent motivations! And then got his memory wiped and was -still- pretty awesome! Yeah, impressed.
Alys - 8/10. In love with Maquis, shares his motivation, COMES INTO BATTLE STATUSED BECAUSE SHE THINKS IT GRANTS HER POWER (HINT: NO). Probably a personal favorite.
Night Dancer - 8/10. Tranny. Fucking. Bangaa.
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Final Fantasy Tactics:
Good lord there are far too many bit players here. Also, my memory of the final bunch is kinda hazy.
Miluda - DNR. Minor revolutionary who gets two scenes before dying. Didn't find her that effective when she had screentime, either.
Wiegraf - Could've been more interesting, I think? Joining the Lucavi didn't help much. 3/10.
Golagros - DNR. Minor revolutionary who kidnaps Teta and gets maybe three scenes before dying.
Algus - RAR COMMONERS ARE TRASH. I only respect hateability in villains to a certain extent, and Algus kinda crossed the point where I could take him seriously. 1/10.
Gafgarion - Again, DNR. Too minor to care about. Just some mercenary.
Delita - Manipulated and backstabbed his way to the top, only to fall at the very end. 8/10. The whole thing works for the most part.
Bart - DNR. I don't even remember what he did.
Cardinal Draclau - RAR CHURCH IS EBIL. 1/10
Zalmo - DNR. Little more than a bit player, if I recall correctly.
Izlude - DNR. I don't think he did anything worth noting.
Barinten - RAR I AM CORRUPT EVIL DUKE. 1/10
Celia - DNR. Random demon
Lede - DNR. Random demon
Elmdor - Felt fairly threatening. Though I have some misgivings about ranking him and for giving out scores based on how threatening villains appear to be, I'll give him a 3/10 for that and the twist surprising me.
Dycedarg - Mmm, yeah, he worked, to an extent. Needed to be more competent and less generically evil for me to rate him higher, though. 4/10.
High Priest Funeral - Don't remember well enough
Vormav - Don't remember well enough.
Kletian - Don't remember well enough
Rofel - Don't remember well enough.
Balk - Again!
Altima - RAR EBIL MESSIAH. Then again, my memory here may be faulty. Abstain out of fairness.
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance:
Queen Remedi - Burn in hell, dream fairy. 1/10
Mewt/Llendar - RAR FFTA HAET MEWT IS EMO CRYBABY HAET. Except that his life does kinda suck. That said, unconciously forming a violent second personality that tries to kill anyone who tries to bring him back to reality is... well... 3/10 works, I guess.
Cid - DNR. It's pretty clear that Cid wasn't opposed to Marche's efforts to return to the real world (and may in fact have wanted to return as well), just as Judgemaster, he had to uphold Ivalice's batshit laws.
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A lot of FFT characters suffer from the game's plot structure and thus, spotty appearances.
Final Fantasy Tactics:
Miluda: 7. Likable, solid motivations.
Wiegraf: 2. Could have been something based on C1, then he drops off the face of the earth and reappears in C3 first as "eh, that guy" and then "space flea".
Golagros: DNR. Too minor.
Algus: 2. While it's named the Algus Principle for hatability...this playthrough really drove home that he's an idiot who can't get his facts straight rather than not wanting to get them straight and thus he just fails.
Gafgarion: 5. Straightforward merc with a nice traitor twist that fits his attitude. Nothing to complain about.
Delita: DNR. Not even an antagonist.
Bart: DNR. No-personality lackey, minor.
Cardinal Draclau: 1. Rar, evulz.
Zalmo: 5. Comedy value.
Izlude: 5. Generic nice villain guy.
Barinten: 2. Evulz. Point for being really evulz about it I guess?
Celia: DNR. No personality.
Lede: DNR. No personality.
Elmdor: 2. Gets one line as non-space flea, then it's all YOU'LL HAVE TO BEAT ME TO FIND OUT. Twist was nice I guess.
Dycedarg: 7. Wants to move higher in society and rule. Is a really giant douche about it. Basically Delita if he was an actual villain. Twirling a wine glass is worth automatic style/douche points too.
High Priest Funeral: DNR. Has one line in the game. Come ON.
Vormav: 3. Is closely associated with the main stupid plot of FFT, acts only for it. Woop. A point for being portrayed as a threat and so utterly devoted to it.
Kletian: You'll have to defeat me to find out!?
Rofel: 3. Uh, is pretty slick in that one convo with Dycedarg I guess.
Balk: DNR. No personality.
Altima: 1. Rar, evulz.
Dycedarg's Elder Brother: 10. So good at spinning the Xanatos roulette nobody even knew he was there.
Professor Daravon: 10. His acts of villainy against the English Language are unrivaled in their viciousness.
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance:
Queen Remedi: DNR. Is Mewt.
Mewt: 1/10. Is Mewt.
Llendar: DNR. Is Mewt.
Cid: DNR. Is not Mewt.
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance 2:
Illua: 3. Ah, the leader of the Organization of Vague Evil. Point for being someone that causes Cid to talk more about his vague past in the Organization of Vague Evil.
Ewen: 3. NINJA KLETIAN. Comedy points for that and being like the fastest decaying villain in threat value ever.
Neukhia: DNR. Space flea.
Duke Snakeheart: 3. <RichardHawk> All his motivations were "Hm. Not evil enough. What next?!" while not having the style to carry that type of character.
<RichardHawk> ...yeah, super.
Maquis: 7. Pretty cool guy. Also Ninja Ondore.
Alys: 4. What the heck was that status effects thing about anyway?
Night Dancer: 8. Tranny bangaa.
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Tonfa: The status thing effect was explained in one fight as being Alys thinking that the negative sorceries made her positive ones come out more powerfully. IIRC, that was kinda of a justification for her having Blood Price? But not directly, so.
-
Final Fantasy Tactics:
Miluda (2/10): Aside from inspiring the line "insipid pop populism" in my actual play report of LFFT, has never struck me one way or another. I have little to no sympathy for her ideology, as the above quote indicates, and as a character she has all of two scenes.
Wiegraf (7.5/10): He has not one but THREE interesting battles, which are worth at least two bonus points - and even then I feel like I'm undervaluing him. A lot of presence for an FFT villain, the argument between him and Ramza in Underground Book Storage is actually interesting and not really decisively answered, and he doesn't lose anything for plot fusing with Velius and it came off as legitimately tragic. Honestly, I can't help but feel Ramza was WRONG in saying Wiegraf betrayed his ideals (prior to using Ares, I mean) - Funeral's plan seemed to go hand in glove with what Wiegraf wanted.
Golagros (DNR) (3/10): Minion. Well portrayed for what he was, but he's got nothing. Not worthy of being considered a villain, he's barely even an antagonist.
Algus (8/10): I hate to say anything good about Algus, but... doesn't that say something for him, really? In the midst of a bunch of truly merciless schemers, abusive power-mongers and enfleshed demons, his petty thuggery, sneering condescension and Teta murder make him probably the most consistently despised character in the game. That takes some doing.
Gafgarion (9/10): Just doing his job and doing it with AWESOME. He's a bastard, but considering the world he lives in his bastardy comes from wholly convincing cynicism. In both the original (when genuinely good lines were hard to come by) and War of the Lions, he has some of the best lines in this or any game. Particularly when pwning Agrias, who made a great foil.
Delita (DNR) (10/10): Great character, not in any way, shape or form a villain. Even the most ruthless asshole interpretation of his behavior leaves him a borderline antihero, and he's an antagonist for all one of scene (when he first kidnaps Ovelia), which turns out to serve the party's interests more than his not doing what he did. In every other instance in which he interacts with Ramza and co., he's either neutral to them or on their side. Whatever you think of his actions on the grand stage, he apparently DOES save Ivalice and end its cycle of self-destructive wars.
Bart (3/10): Minion, satisfying death scene, but not as satisfying as Judge Ghis's and he has virtually no presence.
Cardinal Draclau(Queklain/Cuchulain) (6/10): Nicely radiates menace and plays things fairly well. Ultimately, though, he's just a speed bump esper in the rebel scion hierarchy and a middle manager in the Glabados Church hierarchy - all the actual schemes he's involved with are the work of Funeral and Hashmalum.
Zalmo (5/10): Not enough screen time to really shine, but Zalmo seems like a pretty interesting character. He appears to be something of a true believer and a pawn of all and sundry, who is genuinely trying to bring a dangerous fugitive to justice and ends up getting killed due to a misunderstanding. But his battles are boring and he doesn't show up much.
Izlude (DNR) (5/10): Even less of a villain than Zalmo, who can be interpreted as such. Good character but not much of a villain, and ultimately he doesn't have much screen time or presence.
Barinten (7/10): Actually, a really good (by which I mean bad) villain for how little he's in the game. He's such an immense asshole he qualifies for loving to hate him. On the other hand, his plans are actually quite good and he seems like he'd be a genuine magnificent bastard but for his having no way to know about the supernatural power of the Zodiac Braves.
Celia (3/10): One point for style, two points for very nasty battles, nothing for any other purpose because she's just a named mook.
Lede (3/10): See Celia.
Elmdor(/Zarella) (4/10): Even more style and he actually has some lines... but that's about it. Even as nasty as the fight with him can be on the first run, he's just another mook esper on the way to Hashmalum and Altima. If his dismissal of Vormav is taken at face value and he represents a genuine philosophical break amidst the rebel scions, gets more interesting - but there's no particular reason to believe that.
Dycedarg (8/10): (Note: Unlike Draclau and Vormav, who only appear in the game as the mortal guises of Queklain/Cuchulain and Hashmalum, or Elmdor, who doesn't seem to be a villain before become a vessel of Zarella, Dycedarg is a villain in his own right and is only seen as Adramelek's vessel for the briefest of stretches.) And what a villain Dycedarg is - believable in his plots and motives, but an utterly ruthless son of a bitch. Loses at least half a point for his plot fusion, because unlike Wiegraf, whose arc is about trying to balance ideals and the power to achieve them, Dycedarg has ALREADY been (morally) destroyed by grasping for power, and anyway he's basically tricked into becoming a Zodiac Brave - which reduces the quality of his characterization overall.
High Priest Funeral (3/10): Understandable plot and it would have worked if other, more magnificent bastards weren't around to screw him over, but has almost no screen time.
Adramelek (2/10): Mook esper, easy battle. Plot fusion for Dycedarg somewhat fails for the same reason as for Vayne: it doesn't really further his character arc in any way. Adramelek has no personality other than that.
Vormav(/Hashmalum) (7/10): Gets points for being behind what amounts to actually quite a good little scheme to resurrect Altima/Ultima. He has decent presence, too. But, oddly overshadowed because his supernatural villainy never manages to seem as bad as what the people of Ivalice do to each other without his intervention.
Kletian (2/10): Mook.
Rofel (2/10): Mook.
Balk (4/10): Balk-2 is a badass enough battle to raise him a whole two points over Vormav's other lackeys.
Altima (6/10): Loses at least a point for being one of the weakest final bosses around, especially when stacked against some of her followers who are actually tougher to beat (Velius unless you know what you're doing). Honestly, the six points she does have are probably six more than I would have given her before FF12, so they may not be fair here. Why? Because between the time of FF12 and the time of FFT, she apparently executed a MAGNIFICENT Xanatos Gambit to free the rebel espers from servitude to mankind, get herself revered as a god/demigod and establish a method to get the control she apparently wanted in the first place. But all of that is subtextual and relies on material outside FFT itself, so... Meh, leaving the rating I've got.
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Final Fantasy Tactics:
Miluda 7/10
Wiegraf 6/10 Actually kind of liked him showing up in C3, cynical and bitter, completely lacking any ideals he had previously, so desperate to live he basically sells his soul for no other purpose than to live.
Golagros 5/10
Algus 8/10
Gafgarion 6/10
Delita 9/10
Bart who?/10
Cardinal Draclau 5/10
Zalmo 5/10
Izlude 5/10
Barinten 5/10
Celia 5/10
Lede 5/10
Elmdor 5/10
Dycedarg 7/10 Good manipulator
High Priest Funeral 5/10
Vormav 5/10
Kletian 5/10
Rofel 5/10
Balk 5/10
Altima 5/0
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance:
Queen Remedi 5/10
Mewt 1/10 I really hate Mewt. Like, a lot.
Llendar 5/10
Cid Not a villain/10
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Super-delayed reply from the past:
Anyway... as far as FFXII goes, I can't be the only one who wanted Cid to win. The PCs were just hatchetmen for some stupid ghosts what wanted to pull our strings anyway. Cid was trying to right the course of human history. His flaw was that his goals were too damn big.
Yeah, agree, though I think the game did try and let you achieve that? Though it's more nebulous than it should be, it's strongly implied that Ashe's actions on Pharos did screw over whatever the Occuria were planning... hopefully. At the very least the leaders of both nations are resolute on ignoring the Occuria now, rather than running around and being their lackeys.
Anyway...
Final Fantasy Tactics:
Miluda 7/10 - Fits her role in the plot very well, but it's a small one. Nothing wrong with her, just not handing out 8s and above for well-done bit parts.
Wiegraf 8/10 - See AAA, it's a nice warning you may not be on the right side when a "White Knight" is fighting you in Chapter 1. Defeating his rebellion drives him to desperation and dark pacts. I buy it.
Golagros DNR. Miluda is well-done minor, Golgaros exists for too little time.
Algus 9/10 - WTF at low Algus scores. "Animals have no god!" Man, FFT accidentally did have a few great lines in the mush the translators produced. Completely despicable piece of trash and great at it.
Gafgarion 7/10 - Experienced mercenary working for both sides, sure. I like his trickery in his second and especially third battles - the duel with Ramza. He babbles too much about his amoral non-philosophy but whatever it's FFT.
Delita 9/10 - Sure, willing to call him a villain even if he isn't really an antagonist. He does murder some people with much less cause than Ramza. A fine schemer with a basically decent intention behind it. Kinda wish he didn't, along with the rest of the political plot, hit the back burner to some degree in Chapter 4 after you get Orlandu.
Bart DNR - Draclau food.
Cardinal Draclau 5/10 - Generic badguy. Presence points for the transform followed by creepy music, at least.
Zalmo 5/10 - Exists.
Izlude 6/10 - Noble deceived badguy, but dies before he can really have character development. (Which is fine. This needs to happen to some people.)
Barinten 7/10 - The "kill the village of assassins plot and raise their kids" plot has been done a bunch of times before, and doesn't make tons of sense and is kinda lame, but it kinda worked because Barinten struck me as more pathetic. Nice that he's one of the badguys everyone hates and gets a properly horrible fate.
Celia & Lede - 6/10? Entirely presence votes as far as "holy shit they're killing people left and right."
Elmdor 5/10 - Going from saving him to killing him was nice. Hard to say but doesn't seem like much of a villain before he got possessed.
Dycedarg 8/10: Good villain. Ruthless political schemer and all, murders his dad, gets Zalbag to go along with most of his plans, prepares to take power. It would have worked too if it hadn't been for his damn brother, and getting possessed. The fact that he was tricked into it is too bad, I agree, he's cool enough on his own.
High Priest Funeral DNR - Not possessed part of the church getting killed by possessed part of church. Fills his role.
Vormav 7/10? - Slightly biased since I agree with Cranbud, the supernatural plot was in many ways lamer than the political plot and Vormav is the chief of the Zodiac Brave Evil Brigade. On the other hand him murdering everyone in Riovanes gives him presence points, and he feels like a decent threat.
Kletian DNR - Henchman.
Rofel DNR - Henchman.
Balk 4/10 - Weird that Balk of all people got to have a do-over in Hell. He's fundamentally Delita but whinier.
Altima 3/10 - Lumping this in with St. Ajora. I far far preferred what it seemed like the plot was from the Germonik scriptures in Chapter 3 - that Germonik was the "real hero" and Ajora was the person who got all the credit. There'd be a nice parallel between Ramza & Delita, then. But no... Ajora wasn't an opportunist who got executed, but the Devil (or at least possessed by the Devil). And now the Devil's back for revenge and to do EVIL RARGH. (How'd they manage to execute him anyway?!) Yawn. What a letdown for a plot with as many good villains as FFT.
I've issues with FFT's plot - especially in Chapter 3 and 4 - but the characters are overall pretty good.
Not finished FFTA2, so not ranking it.
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Final Fantasy Tactics:
Miluda- DNR.
Wiegraf- 7/10. I liked his spiral from idealistic to hateful and bitter. Sort of nails in the brother/sister relationship theme of FFT.
Golagros- 2/10. Whaaatever.
Algus- 7/10. He is really really good at being really hatable. He causes basically everything in FFT to happen with his sheer douchiness.
Gafgarion- 5/10.
Delita- 10/10. Let's just say that 'bad guys' is a literal term for people who are bad, not antagonists. He uses people, he uses them well, but if you say he opposed Ramza directly you aren't paying attention. He just took any means necessary to grab what he wanted, even if it meant stepping on people, but Ramza he pretty much just let do his thing because his thing was helpful. Last two scenes + the only C3 scene are the ones that grabbed me most. The road to hell is paved in good intentions.
Bart- DNR
Cardinal Draclau- 4/10. Tricky assface.
Zalmo- 1/10
Izlude- 7/10. Sure.
Barinten- 3/10. Gets 3 points for being thrown off a roof.
Celia- DNR
Lede- DNR
Elmdor- DNR.
Dycedarg- 8.5/10. Grade A asshole. The Rofel/Dycedarg scene near the end just emphasizes what a real piece of shit he is.
High Priest Funeral- 2/10
Vormav- 1/10
Kletian- DNR
Rofel- 9.5/10. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Balk- 3/10.
Altima- DNR
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance:
Queen Remedi- 5/10
Mewt- I dunno. He's an interesting character, at least, even if his motivations are uh yeah. We'll say 4/10 as a character, 0/10 as a human being.
Llendar- 1/10
Cid- DNR
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Final Fantasy Tactics:
Miluda: 7/10. Miluda is a hopeless rebel fighting for a better tomorrow. While she only has a few scenes, she's effective in all of them.
Wiegraf: 8/10. His descent from idealism to despair and spiritual death in the pursuit of power is a summary of the game's villain cast. He can't beat the system despite his best efforts...so he joins the church. This ends up with him striving to do something, anything and failing. In his despair he throws his soul away to Lucavi. Good stuff.
Golagros: DNR.
Algus: 9/10. Paragon of the love to hate genre of baddies. He's pathetic and throws friends and morality away to chase 'nobility', all while being utterly contemptible. Brilliant.
Gafgarion: 8/10. The end result of the cynical disillusionment rampant in FFT. He's an amoral mercenary trying to make a few gold no matter what the price is.
Delita: 8/10. I like Delita, but...he's very much a villain. He becomes what he hates and commits terrible acts while chasing power. Does it matter if he succeeds? In the end he lost himself. The ending scene where Ovelia stabs him is the perfect finish for FFT.
Bart: DNR.
Cardinal Draclau: 4/10. Does his role but isn't very interesting.
Zalmo: 6/10. I hesitate to say he's a good man, but he's definitely a victim.
Izlude: 6/10. He only has a little time onscreen. His most interesting bit is that his job bio mentions he's fallen into despair. It fits the theme of the game. The fact that he's unaware of Lucavi and tries to stop Vormav is commendable, but is futile.
Barinten: 5/10. Eh.
Celia: 4/10.
Lede: 4/10.
Elmdor: 5/10. Sephiroth.
Dycedarg: 9/10. A real bastard who's traded his soul for power. He killed his father, manipulated his family, and has the blood of thousands on his hands. Is it any surprise he becomes a Lucavi? He's as debased as one, perhaps even moreso.
High Priest Funeral: 4/10. Too little time.
Vormav: 8/10. Presence. Seeing him before he transformed would've been interesting, I think.
Kletian: 5/10. Eh.
Rofel: 6/10. Eh.
Balk: 5/10. Another loser.
Altima: 5/10. Just not enough time. Damn.
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Algus 9/10 - WTF at low Algus scores. "Animals have no god!" Man, FFT accidentally did have a few great lines in the mush the translators produced. Completely despicable piece of trash and great at it.
I can only speak for myself here, but hatability shouldn't come at the expense of being able to be taken seriously (case in point - Lezard Valeth. Wanting to fuck Lenneth just makes you look pathetic, man). Algus is simply too over-the-top in his rhetoric for that to be a possibility with me, which is a shame, because with some minor tweaks to his dialouge, I'd probably give a pretty decent score.
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I feel the need to point out that villains are not necessarily antagonists. I dunno if I consider Delita a villain or not ANYWAY but this seems to be a point of confusion for some, so. Regardless, I take a very broad view of "bad guy" for this topic so expect me to rank everyone who has enough worth to consider.
Miluda: 6/10. Solid enough for what she was.
Wiegraf: 4/10. I agree with the love for the fact that he totally sells out his ideals, the random C3 appearance was cool. Never really cared for him otherwise, though; his big scene in C1 came off as him babbling, and Velius drew out his character needlessly.
Golagros: DNR. I randomly like him for some reason, but no.
Algus: 8/10. Effective, memorable scumbag type. You can actually see where he's coming from, unreasonable though he is, and he represents something very real. You just hate him for it, though.
Gafgarion: 6/10. Yeah, gets some good scenes.
Delita: 9.5/10. Don't have too much to add about him, he's very good.
Bart: DNR. I think he has the least screentime of the people who have non-zero screentime in the Character database.
Cardinal Draclau: 4/10. His transformation scene is genuinely creepy, but his character worth isn't there.
Zalmo: 5/10. Real enough character, which is nice. I just don't care.
Izlude: 7/10. I like him for reasons which probably aren't objectively defensible. He's sorta what Zalmo was aiming for... guy who honestly believes in the church. Except he's much more personable than some religious zealot. I like his conversation with Ramza a lot. And him dying makes you hate Vormav.
Barinten: 3/10. BURN A VILLAGE TO GET RAFA AND MALAK!! He's... hateable but eh. Generally feel the whole end-C3 arc was poorly done and he kinda gets lumped into that.
Celia: DNR
Lede: DNR. Both are awesome, mind.
Elmdor: D...NR? Zalera is so boring. Nah, not enough people are DNRing him, so 2/10. Most memorable scene is him spamming 'quote marks' about the 'Bloody Angel' and the 'Ultimate Power'.
Dycedarg: 8/10. Dycedarg is love. What a bastard. See Algus comments really. He totally has the best zodiac transformation, too. Everyone else gets turned evil. Dyce? He's already more evil than the demons.
High Priest Funeral: He orchestrates a whole lot from behind the scenes, but that doesn't change that he himself has no personality. This is hard to rate, so I'll just go along with the DNRs.
Vormav: 5/10. Vormav has two things going for him. One, the Riovanes massacre definitely sticks out in the memory, and gives a clear definition to the power of what you're facing. Two, when he kills himself. Up until that point I was wondering how much of his motivations were sincere about him getting his goal, and how much was him being self-absorbed with his own power. His self-execution certainly settled THAT question. On the other hand, the fact that I had that question up to his final scene shows how flat his development was until then, so the best he merits is an average score.
Kletian: 2/10. Rofel's been defeated? Then unless I beat you here, I can't face Rofel... c'mon!
Rofel: 6/10. Memorable. Not too many people could do to Dycedarg what he did, and the needless, cruel murder of the High Priest also sticks out. We know very little more about why he is this creepy, soft-talking psycho, sadly.
Balk: 3/10. Finally on top of the human race!
Altima: 4/10. Tim the Toolman Taylor. More power, things explode.
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Final Fantasy Tactics:
Miluda - 7/10
Wiegraf - 9/10
Golagros - 6/10
Algus - 9/10
Gafgarion - 8.5/10
Delita - 10/10
Bart - 4/10
Cardinal Draclau 4/10
Zalmo - 6/10
Izlude - 8/10
Barinten 5/10
Celia - DNR
Lede - DNR
Elmdor - DNR
Dycedarg - 10/10
High Priest Funeral - DNR
Vormav - 9/10
Kletian - 6/10
Rofel - 8.5/10
Balk - 6.5/10
Altima - 4/10
Yeah, FFT, in my opinion, has the best cast of characters evar.
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Final Fantasy Tactics:
Miluda 5/10
Wiegraf 6/10
Golagros- DNR
Algus- 8.5/10
Gafgarion- 7/10-What the elf said.
Delita- 9/10.
Bart- DNR
Cardinal Draclau- 5.5/10
Zalmo- DNR
Izlude- 7/10
Barinten- 7/10- A third party coming out of nowhere to try and blackmail the church? Wow. That was pretty neat.
Celia- DNR
Lede- DNR
Elmdor- DNR
Dycedarg- 8.5/10- Lategame Algus!
High Priest Funeral- DNR
Vormav- I donno. 5/10?
Kletian- DNR
Rofel- 6/10
Balk- DNR
Altima- Donno. 4/10
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...God NO. NONONONONO.
FF12 and FFT are NOT connected.
The name of the 12 Lucavis are a already different for beginners.
Look up FFT characters and spell out the names of the Lucavi and see.
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Random Consonant: I read history for fun, and all I can say is that sadly, Algus was believable to me. Understandable that he might be a bit too much, just that "fallen nobility with ambition" are among the battiest people in the world. Some really great people have come from that kind of background, and some crazy ones too. People insecure of their own position tend to be the most rabid about it, so it made sense to me.
Niu: Ivalice continuity is a trainwreck, yes, but they're connected in a fanficcy, non-offensive type way? The Espers have some blather about how they were demons who were punished for their crimes by being made to serve man IIRC. And a decent number of the names are close / clearly nods (Velius / Belias if nothing else, there's no FF final boss close to it). It's entirely possible to hypothesize that FF12 is zillions of years later than FFT, and FFT was when the demons ran loose.
This is better continuity than the continuity between FF12 and FFTA2, in which Vaan & Penelo visit a land that while still called "Ivalice" and inhabited by the same races is extremely fundamentally different. The role of Viera, Judges, clans, etc. is upside down.
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Random Consonant: I read history for fun, and all I can say is that sadly, Algus was believable to me. Understandable that he might be a bit too much, just that "fallen nobility with ambition" are among the battiest people in the world. Some really great people have come from that kind of background, and some crazy ones too. People insecure of their own position tend to be the most rabid about it, so it made sense to me.
Fair enough, but Algus never struck me that way, and even if he, I take a fairly dim view of such characters, even if they're realistic (though probably not so dim that I'd rate him as low as I did). But then again, I dislike screeching loons as villains in general. I just saw Algus as an angry, petty thug who did the nobility's dirty work, who, to be honest, I was too busy mocking to hate, since there was nothing really there to him other than hate-provoking rants.
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Niu: Ivalice continuity is a trainwreck, yes, but they're connected in a fanficcy, non-offensive type way? The Espers have some blather about how they were demons who were punished for their crimes by being made to serve man IIRC. And a decent number of the names are close / clearly nods (Velius / Belias if nothing else, there's no FF final boss close to it). It's entirely possible to hypothesize that FF12 is zillions of years later than FFT, and FFT was when the demons ran loose.
Just to add on to this bit, all Espers/Lucavi are the same. Quecklain = Cúchulainn, both have Zalera, both have Adrammelech, both have Hashmalum. The original FFT has translation errors with the names is all. The two games are no doubt connected. And passed that, both FFT and FF12 have a region called Ordalia.
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Ivalice
There's the full story if you're interested in the disaster. ;p
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Final Fantasy Tactics:
[If they're not on here, it's a DNR. I didn't want to put DNR on half the goddamn lines.]
Wiegraf- 8/10. Wiegraf is an excellent take on the leader of a peasant revolt. He does some fairly bad stuff early on, but it's because he has no other options and he thinks that taking a hostage (that you don't intend to kill) is acceptable to keep your skin intact in a bad situation.
Algus- 8/10. I think Algus is kind of Wiegraf's foil. He's a noble whose house has fallen on hard times and he is as desperate to rise in the heirarchy as Wiegraf is to overthrow it. Just like Wiegraf is okay with taking a hostage to escape a sticky situation, Algus is okay with killing an "unimportant" civilian to solve the problem.
Gafgarion- 9/10. If this were a western RPG, I'd say he cribbed too heavily from the CO of Richard's Panzer Brigade, but it's not, so I'll write it off as coincidence. Gafgarion is something that you don't see a lot of in fiction: he's a mercenary who functions like MOST mercenaries would. Yes, some of them have high standards and don't break contracts because they have a reputation to uphold (see: Kell Hounds, Eridani Light Horse) but those are the elite who command all kinds of respect and can tip the scales of a battle by appearing. Gaff Gafgarion (yes that is his full name) is not one of those people. He's an average mercenary, who will do anything for money and whose loyalty is for sale as many times as you care to buy it.
Delita- 9/10. Delita, as much as he hates Algus, apparently learned a lot from him and Dycedarg. He reminds me of Griffith from Berserk, without all the dude-fucking. You know that scene where Griffith trips balls and he builds a stairway to the castle out of the bodies of people who've died in his army? Yeah, that defines Delita quite nicely. He's decided he's going to climb over the fallen to get to the top so he can run shit.
Cardinal Draclau- 5/10. I don't remember anything particular about him except that he was a generic church asshole.
Elmdor- 2/10. So generic. "Hi I'm an effeminate Dracula or some shit."
Dycedarg- 10/10. Here we go. Dycedarg plays the roles of both the major villains in FM1, Driscoll and Sakata. This is an awesome thing. It turns out most of the bad shit that happens goes back to him in one way or another, and even when you kill him, the wheel's in spin and it doesn't make what he did go away. I like when they do that.
High Priest Funeral- 5/10. Generic church asshole. I thought he'd be more than that.
Vormav- 6/10. Generic church asshole, gets an extra point for being willing to sacrifice his kids.
Altima- 3/10. YES I GET IT JAPAN. You can't understand that it's the people who came AFTER Jesus who were assholes, so you think Jesus was a jerkass. That makes you a huge goddamn liar, but I get what you're trying to say.
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance:
Queen Remedi- 2/10. She was kind of spooky until it turned out that she wasn't a ghost or a zombie but instead, was a jello monster.
Mewt- 1/10. You are terrible.
Llendar- 1/10. You are the mary sue of a terrible character.
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You know that scene where Griffith trips balls and he builds a stairway to the castle out of the bodies of people who've died in his army?
o.o
*goes to start watching Berserk*
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It's the best I've ever seen at making you think things will turn out good and then crushing those hopes.
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Final Fantasy Tactics Advance:
Queen Remedi: 2/10 is there
Mewt: 3/10 I don't have the active hate most people have for him
Llendar: 5/10 Zeromus but funnier
Cid: DNR lol
Marche: 10/10 wins etc.
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Niu: Ivalice continuity is a trainwreck, yes, but they're connected in a fanficcy, non-offensive type way? The Espers have some blather about how they were demons who were punished for their crimes by being made to serve man IIRC. And a decent number of the names are close / clearly nods (Velius / Belias if nothing else, there's no FF final boss close to it). It's entirely possible to hypothesize that FF12 is zillions of years later than FFT, and FFT was when the demons ran loose.
This is better continuity than the continuity between FF12 and FFTA2, in which Vaan & Penelo visit a land that while still called "Ivalice" and inhabited by the same races is extremely fundamentally different. The role of Viera, Judges, clans, etc. is upside down.
No FFTA2 is a much better consistency, as FFTA2 actually tells you WHY things are different.
But FFT to FF12?
Again for the beginners... Leviathan is one of the 12 Lucavis in FFT, but I certainly don't see that in the 12 Abnormalities in FF12. And I don't think how they are going to answer other discrepancies if they can't even explain this one.
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Again for the beginners... Leviathan is one of the 12 Lucavis in FFT, but I certainly don't see that in the 12 Abnormalities in FF12. And I don't think how they are going to answer other discrepancies if they can't even explain this one.
But Leviathan ISN'T a Lucavi in FFT. ;o
He's a summon.
-
...........
I really should do a FFT fact center before I do an ogre one.
The 12 Lucavis from FFT consist the followings:
Belias
Duma
Zalhera
Zebbeb
Hashmurim
Ultima
Sel
Cuchrain
Rophochehe
Adramelech
Cheraub
Leviathan
Their names are inscribed on the magic circle in the Ivalice letters if you look closely enough in FFT.
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God, Ivalice fails. -_-
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To comment on the whole FFT-FFXII continuity thing, there's an FFXII Journal entry that talks about the Church of St. Ajora. Can't quite remember which one it is, but I can go check through for it at some point, if anyone wants me to.
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Final Fantasy Tactics:
Miluda: 4/10. Interesting plot device, but not much of a villain.
Wiegraf: 7/10. Interesting to see him slowly fall apart, especially with that Rofel scene in WotL helping shed light on why he joined the Shrine Knights.
Golagros: ...who? I've played FFT countless times and I don't even recognize this name...yeah, DNR.
Algus: 7/10. Despicable spoiled brat...which is exactly what they were aiming for, so yeah, not bad.
Gafgarion: 5/10. A bit cliched and found him overall ineffective.
Delita: DNR. personally feel this topic is meant for Antagonists (despite its name), and even then, I'm not convinced Delita is a "Bad Guy"; he's definitely *NOT* an antagonist in any sense of the word though. For that reason, he gets a DNR; do note that i have immense respect for him as a character, I just can't see him as a villain.
Bart: 2/10. 2 scene wonder, and we get nothing out of them, huzzah!
Cardinal Draclau: 3/10. Cliche evil priest.
Zalmo: 2/10. Fails.
Izlude: 6/10. Decent enough anti-villain, but really felt he needed more scenes to be truly worth something.
Barinten: 2/10. HE SHOOTS MALAK! And does...like...nothing before or after that otherwise...yeah...
Celia: 4/10. Gets a point for being fittingly creepy, but otherwise, has nothing.
Lede: 4/10. See Celia.
Elmdor: 3/10. Cliche'd Silver Haired Baddy. he does practically nothing but rant about EVIL!!! and otherwise is another guy for Vormav to Talk to and...uh, yeah, does nothing.
Dycedarg: 6/10. Despicable prick of an Elder Brother...who I felt had his whole KILLED HIS FATHER aspect rushed a bit.
High Priest Funeral
Vormav: 5/10. Needed more of a personality other than "I'm the evil dude pulling all the strings."
Kletian: 1/10. I wanna DNR him, but can't justify it, since its really just "DNR cause he fails"...so yeah, this works. He's really just kind of there, says nothing, and does nothing worth noting...then you kill him after he rants about how he and Rofel are friends, which probably just existed so all the Yaoi Fangirls can have a field day with the Fanfic.
Rofel: 6/10. Bland generic henchman...but honestly, felt like that's exactly what they WANTED him to be. Nothing more, nothing less, so I give him points for that.
Balk: 3/10. I WILL BECOME GREATER THAN HUMANS! Unfortunately, he fails to realize how you need more of a character to do that...
Altima: 3/10. Interesting design but...is really just the "evil summoned monster!!!" cliche, and has nothing otherwise. I'm not saying she's a Necron, mind, since we know of her, in a sense, just...you know, she's a pure plot device until she finally appears.
FFT has a lot of villains...except over half of them are essentially 2 scene wonders who exist as filler for bosses. Really, this list could have been culled down dramatically.
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance:
Queen Remedi: 3/10. Generic failure.
Mewt: 4/10. I'll give him a point cause I think they succeeded at making us unable to sympathize with someone who thinks he deserves all the sympathy in the world, but is really just a spoiled brat.
Llendar: 2/10. RAR! I'M THE SUPER MANIFESTATION OF MEWT'S HATE WHO EXISTS TO KILL ALL!!! ...wait, what was his plot again?
Cid: 5/10. He's...kind of...likable?
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Is this getting updated? I'd like to see the next round!
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Yes, today or tomorrow. I left it open double-time since it fell over DLcon, but it's do to update now.
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This also means last call for getting your votes in.
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Final Fantasy Tactics:
Miluda: 8/10. See Tai, basically. Really felt like she was what started Ramza's turn away from the nobles. Just because someone wasn't around for long doesn't mean they can't be good with what time they had.
Wiegraf: 7/10. Ugh. Great early stuff. Then space flea.
Golagros: 5/10. Existed purely to serve as a foil to Wiegraf and show how much Wiegraf's ideals meant to him.
Algus: 9/10. Pulls off the hatable villian very well.
Gafgarion: 7/10. Good, solid soulless merc. He did what he had to do for himself and that's it.
Delita: 9/10. Became that which he hated. Very well told story there.
Bart: 3/10. Was there purely to let the Cardinal be eviler.
Cardinal Draclau: 5/10. Had a nice "ahaha I'm not really on your side" plot twist of sorts. Then loses a point for introducing space flea plot.
Zalmo: 6/10. More comparable to Gaff then anyone else, I think. Just doing his job, it's just that his job happens to be fanatically hunting down heretics. Especially ones named Ramza.
Izlude: 7/10. Needed more screentime, should have been a PC dammit.
Barinten: 8/10. Douche Ex Machina indeed. Could have been a great primary villian, frankly. Just, uh, got hijacked by space flea plot. +2 points for most hilarious death scene ever.
Celia: 3/10. Was there, point for style.
Lede 5/10. Was there, point for style, +2 points for being the one to throw Barinten off the roof.
Elmdor: 3/10. Was there, point for "wait, weren't you already dead?" (Note: I read the Brave Story compulsively my first time through, so saw the bit about him dieing from a stray arrow before he showed back up)
Dycedarg: 10/10. Magnificent bastard.
High Priest Funeral: 3/10. Was there...except mostly not actually.
Vormav: 7/10. Point for being REALLY evil, but mostly just a space flea.
Kletian: 3/10. Existed? Kinda? Okay not really.
Rofel: 5/10. Existed more then Kletian. Funny name + pulling off some badassrey...AFTER you beat him...gets him a couple points.
Balk: 4/10. Extra point just for his second fight being that nuts.
Altima: 4/10. No Alma, you are the space fleas.
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance:
Queen Remedi: 3/10. Pain in the ass to fight, but eh otherwise.
Mewt: 1/10. Unlike Algus, Mewt does not pull off the "so hatable he's good". No, Mewt is just as hatable as Algus, but not in a good way. He's really just pathetic.
Llendar: 1/10. -_-
Cid: 4/10. Best character in FFTA? Possibly? How sad.
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance 2:
Illua: 6/10. Owned by book+feeds great lines to Cid/Luso is worth a 6, sure.
Ewen: 2/10. I'd forgotten he existed between when I put the game down and picked it back up a couple months later.
Neukhia: 4/10. MOAR SPACE FLEAS!
Duke Snakeheart: 7/10. Is Super and thus hilarious.
Maquis: Haven't seen enough of his stuff to rank him yet.
Alys: 7/10. Status herself to "make herself stronger" merging gameplay and plot(though she's wrong on it actually making her stronger) gets her a couple of points.
Night Dancer: 7/10. TRANNY BANGAA.
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Final Fantasy Tactics:
Miluda: 5/10; Performs her role adequately. Nothing special, nothing bad.
Wiegraf: 7/10; Needed some more time, but was a solid villain.
Golagros: 5/10; Did his job, etc.
Algus: 8/10; Absolute prat who served as wonderful catalyst for making you more sympathetic of Miluda/Wiegraf and Co.
Gafgarion: 6/10; Does his job fine. Has some good work, but not overly shiny.
Delita: 9/10; Wonderfully developed figure who, even if not a direct villain to this game, falls categorically close enough to being a villain/antagonist/bad guy that he earns his keep.
Bart: 4/10; Not bad enough to warrant a bad score but... uh...
Cardinal Draclau: 5/10; Did his job. Nothing overly good. Nothing overly bad.
Zalmo: 5/10; See above, really.
Izlude: 8/10; I'm shameless in admitting I like Izlude and thought his character was well done, as well finding his demise to be one of the sadder ones. A nice take on the well intentioned extremist in that he doesn't get totally duped.
Barinten: 5/10; Like many of the sideliners, he did his job just fine, but didn't stand out in particular.
Celia: 3/10; See Elmdor
Lede: 3/10; See Elmdor
Elmdor: 3/10; Tried to be a major villain, but didn't... do... anything, really.
Dycedarg: 8/10; Wonderful twat. Much more sinister and cruel than Algus, but doesn't quite feed as well into the petty vindicativeness as well.
High Priest Funeral: ...uh...
Vormav: 5/10; Gets a non-...uh... response for killing Izlude.
Kletian: ...uh...
Rofel: ...uh...
Balk: ...uh...
Altima: ...uh...
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Okay, this round's rankings are closed. I'll have the results up tonight or in the morning.
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The results are in!
Final Fantasy Tactics:
Miluda: 6.23, 13 rankers. (2 DNR.)
Wiegraf: 6.36, 15 rankers.
Golagros: DNR (4.5, 6 rankers.)
Algus: 6.90, 15 rankers.
Gafgarion: 6.67, 14 rankers (1 DNR)
Delita: 9.04, 12 rankers. (3 DNR)
Bart: DNR (3.2, 5 rankers.)
Cardinal Draclau: 4.10, 15 rankers.
Zalmo: 4.66, 12 rankers. (3 DNR)
Izlude: 6.66, 12 rankers. (3 DNR)
Barinten: 5.00, 14 rankers. (1 DNR)
Celia: DNR (4.00, 7 rankers.)
Lede: DNR. (4.28, 7 rankers.)
Elmdor: 3.66, 12 rankers. (3 DNR)
Dycedarg: 7.86, 15 rankers.
High Priest Funeral: DNR (3.66, 6 rankers.)
Vormav: 5.85, 14 rankers.
Kletian: DNR (3.42, 7 rankers.)
Rofel: 5.16, 12 rankers. (1 DNR)
Balk: 4.05, 10 rankers. (3 DNR)
Altima: 3.91, 12 rankers. (1 DNR)
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance:
Queen Remedi: 3.00, 8 rankers. (1 DNR)
Mewt: 2.44, 9 rankers.
Llendar: 2.75, 8 rankers. (1 DNR)
Cid: DNR. (4.00, 3 rankers.)
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance 2:
Illua: 5.00, 3 rankers.
Ewen: 2.66, 3 rankers.
Neukhia: DNR. (4.00, 2 rankers.)
Duke Snakeheart: 6.00, 3 rankers.
Maquis: 7.5, 2 rankers.
Alys: 6.33, 3 rankers.
Bangaa: 7.66, 3 rankers.
More coming in the next post.
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Top ten highest ranked villains:
1. Delita(FFT): 9.04, 12 rankers. (3 DNR)
2. Dycedarg(FFT): 7.86, 15 rankers.
3. Bangaa(FFTA2): 7.66, 3 rankers.
4. Jecht(FFX): 7.30, 15 rankers. (3 DNR)
5. Reno(FF7): 7.21, 21 rankers.
6. Rufus(FF7): 6.97, 21 rankers.
7. Algus(FFT): 6.90, 15 rankers.
8. Sin(FFX): 6.87, 16 rankers. (3 DNR)
9. Gilgamesh(FF5): 6.84, 13 rankers.
10. Doctor Cidolfus Demen Bunansa(FF12): 6.72, 11 rankers.
Top ten lowest ranked villains
1. Zemus/Zeromus(FF4): 1.88, 17 rankers.
2. Necron(FF9): 2.13, 22 rankers.
3. Adel(FF8): 2.33, 18 rankers. (1 DNR)
4. Mewt(FFTA): 2.44, 9 rankers.
5t. Milon(FF4): 2.60, 15 rankers (3 DNRs)
5t. Lani(FF9): 2.60, 20 rankers. (2 DNR)
7. Ewen(FFTA2): 2.66, 3 rankers.
8. Llendar(FFTA): 2.75, 8 rankers. (1 DNR)
9. Hein(FF3): 2.83/DNR, 6 rankers.
10t. Valvalis(FF4): 2.86, 15 rankers (3 DNRs)
10t. Thorn/Zorn(FF9): 2.86, 19 rankers. (3 DNR)
The denizens cursed to live beneath Zenny's bed:
Baigan: DNR (2.2, 10 voters.)
Jenova: DNR (3.00, 12 rankers.)
Edea: DNR (4.8, 10 rankers.)
Beatrix: DNR (5.83, 10 rankers.)
Golagros: DNR (4.5, 6 rankers.)
Bart: DNR (3.2, 5 rankers.)
Celia: DNR (4.00, 7 rankers.)
Lede: DNR. (4.28, 7 rankers.)
High Priest Funeral: DNR (3.66, 6 rankers.)
Kletian: DNR (3.42, 7 rankers.)
Cid: DNR. (4.00, 3 rankers.)
Neukhia: DNR. (4.00, 2 rankers.)
Those who couldn't even find Zenny's room:
Kain(1.0, 1 vote)
Tunnel Armor(10, 1 vote)
Yuffie(4.0, 1 vote)
The Occuria(5.33, 3 votes)
Dycedarg's Elder Brother(10.00, 1 vote.)
Professor Daravon(10.00, 1 vote.)
Marche(10.00, 1 vote.)
Games ranked:
FF1, FF2, FF3, FF4, FF5, FF6, FF7, FF8, FF9, FF10, FF12, FFT, FFTA, FFTA2.
That round was crazy. FFT got a lot of debate, FFTA was kinda there and FFTA2 was barely voted on filler. At least I got it out of the way on an otherwise busy session. Delita absolutely creamed everyone else on the top ten villains list and may be in number 1 for good. It's going to be damned hard to beat a 9.xx. Dycedarg's 2nd and he's a full point behind him.
Let's change gears here. There's other RPGs out there in the gaming world, like the Wild Arms series! Lets do them now.
Wild Arms 1:
(Note: I'm using the WA1 names but feel free to consider ACF. I'm not going to rank ACF separately. Use your own judgment and post only one rating, please.)
Belselk
Alhazad
Zed
Boomerang
Luceid
Lady Harken
Zeikfried
Mother
Wild Arms 2:
Ptolomea
Judecca
Antenora
Caina
Vinsfeld
Lord Blazer
Wild Arms 3:
Melody
Malik
Leehalt
Janus
Asgard
Siegfried
Beatrice
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Belselk - 4, Generic idiot lackey who gets things done through destruction, gains a bonus point for trying to set up a trap only to have it backfire miserably.
Alhazad - 6, Generic mad scientist archetype? Plays mind games with the heroes often and created Harken which makes him not quite as bad.
Zed - DNR, Comic relief and is too good natured deep down to really actually do anything bad in the game.
Boomerang - 8, has his own agenda throughout the game, and is badass.
Luceid - 1, is Lucied.
Lady Harken - 9, I personally loved the way she interacted with Jack during the game, she is also the WOMB OF DESTRUCTION, gets a bonus point for getting her own battle theme in ACF.
Zeikfried - 2 never really does much of anything really, is also stupid and beams the team right into the Gate generator instead of just blowing them up.
Mother - 5 not terrible, but not great either.
Wild Arms 2:
Ptolomea - 4, kind of forgettable.
Judecca - 1, is supposed to be deadly and a bad ass but fails to kill Tim and an injured Kanon in duels and generally runs crying like a scrub with excuses when he loses, and yet you really never feel anything about him, Kartikeya fills this role much better.
Antenora - 8, her whole plot for revenge was very interesting, she was the only Cocytus member that really felt like she had a Legitimate reason for wanting to be in the group, definitely the most well done of them imo.
Caina - 3, mostly just seemed to be there for his abilities with Randolph, the kidnapping of Marina seemed rather tacked on to me.
Vinsfeld - 2, Generic Wild Arms lead villain whose weaker then his underlings? yup.
Lord Blazer - 3, his presence is always there, and yet, his presence is never really there.
Adding one who is a ridiculous spoiler:
Irvine Vold Valeria - 10, his abilities at manipulation are just crazy, while his being an actual villain may be in question, he did fund Odessa and was the second to last fight in the game. The way he managed to get everyone to do exactly as he wanted is rather mind boggling.
Wild Arms 3:
Melody - 3, meh.
Malik - 4, not really memorable, but at least he loves his mom.
Leehalt - 2, WA bad guy leader with the least development again, yup.
Janus - 4, tries too hard to be a badass.
Asgard - 7, The way he developed was rather unique, also is Asgard.
Siegfried - 2, Like Ziekfried in WA1, is stupid and doesn't really do much of anything.
Beatrice - 8, Is present for the entire story, even if it's not readily obvious until the game is almost over. I would probably see her as being just as good as the spoiler from WA2 if she had actually been more present in the rest of the game in some way.
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Wild Arms 1:
Belselk 5/10: Exists, does his job, puts up good fights and dies well. But... that's really it, isn't it?
Alhazad 6/10: Like Belselk but with a better laugh/scheming.
Zed 9/10: One of my favorite "joke" villains, not least because both in plot and gameplay he's not JUST a joke.
Boomerang 8/10: Shadow as a villain. Cool, but cool and interesting fights are all he's got.
Luceid 5/10: Interceptor as a villain. More interesting in some of his later appearances, I think.
Lady Harken 8/10: Tragic AND cool, but NOT an interesting fight. Would be higher if I ignored gameplay.
Zeikfried 8/10: Presence, fair-to-middling battles, and a great series of double-crosses with Mother.
Mother 5/10: Space flea. But, she has presence and her stabbing her "children" in the back actually makes her interesting.
Wild Arms 2:
Ptolomea 4/10: Belselk, but played for sympathy, sort of. Meh. Also, unlike WA1, in WA2 the named character bosses were usually much easier than the non-named characters.
Judecca 5/10: Easy to kill, not much of a character, but he had more personality than Ptolomea.
Antenora 7/10: Very cool plot and actually a semi-decent fight at least once. Point for wielding the same weapons as Walter in Helsing, albeit not nearly as well.
Caina 7/10: Interesting plot, she reminds me of an inverse protagonist. Also, decent fights.
Vinsfeld 8/10: Awesome. His Pure Ideals will triumph over any adversity. Would be a 10 for pure entertainment value if his fight didn't suck so, so much. Dammit, Little Vins! Why do you fail so hard?
Lord Blazer 5/10: Wild ARMs knows how to do space fleas right (or did in the PS1 era, anyway). Has presence, looming threat through the whole game, one of the best final battle SCENES ever (albeit a plot battle).
Liz 9/10: How can you have -Trash- like Golagros and omit not one but TWO of the great joke villains of all time?! Liz is hilarious and he and Ard also put up very good fights, unlike most WA2 named bosses.
Ard 7/10: Liz's straight man (well, straight lizard). Gets points for being his partner's comic foil and for being part of some very good fights.
Do We Really Need to Hide Irving When He's From An Almost Decade-Old Game? 10/10: One of the greatest villains in any game, assuming you count him as a villain. A magnificent bastard whose spectacular Xanatos Gambit ends up basically justified in the end, incredible presence, some great lines and even greater scenes. Easily at least as much a villain as Delita and more of an antagonist - and arguably an even better character.
Wild Arms 3:
Melody 4/10: Obsessed with Clive (or with Clive not being obsessed with her) but... meh, I dunno. Not a fan of these three and she's not that tough of a fight.
Malik 5/10: Mommy issues aside, provides a much better fight than Melody.
Leehalt 6/10: A point over his peers mostly for presence, although he's only really dangerous if you don't catch on to his gimick.
Janus 7/10: Entertaining, reasonably challenging on the first playthrough.
Asgard 7/10: Shit-ton of presence and some reasonably tough fights.
Siegfried 3/10: Like WA1 Ziek, except with no awesome multiple double-crosses, fewer lines, and goes down like a chump. Also, only fights Maya to a standstill. So... really not like WA1 Ziek in any way shape or form, I guess?
Beatrice 3/10: Creepy, but that's about all she has going for her.
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Liz and Ard should've been included, but they completely escaped my attention. Feel free to write them in, people.
Wild Arms 1:
Belselk: 4/10. I refuse to be teleported! That's about it.
Alhazad: 4/10. Eh. Never really breaks into interesting.
Zed: 1/10. Stupid gimmick and an irritation.
Boomerang: 5/10. Eh.
Luceid: 3/10. Luceid.
Lady Harken: 6/10. Harken has some good drama with Jack. Works for me.
Zeikfried: 4/10.
Mother: 4/10.
Wild Arms 2:
Ptolomea: 5.5/10. I like him but not in any way that can be defended.
Judecca: 2/10. Pyscho twat. Being a nut doesn't make you interesting.
Antenora: 8/10. She works for what she is.
Caina: 3/10. Eh. No real opinion.
Vinsfeld: 8/10. I like Vinsfeld despite all his failure. He's a dupe but he's a fun dupe.
Lord Blazer: 7/10. Incredible final battle and music. Wins.
Liz: 2/10
Ard: 2/10. Stupid gimmicks.
Irving Vold Valeria: 10/10. Yeah, I'll rank him too. Why not? WA2 makes a lot more sense when you understand Irving's role and he pulls it off almost to perfection.
Wild Arms 3:
Melody: 3.5/10
Malik: 4/10: Gets points for a creepy mother fetish.
Leehalt: 2/10
Janus: 3/10 Cocky twit. The extra plot fight against him does him more harm than good.
Asgard: 5/10. Eh.
Siegfried: 2/10.
Beatrice: 3/10. Three points for foreshadowing.
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Wild Arms 1:
Belselk: 2/10. Rar generic.
Alhazad: 7/10. Evil bastard.
Zed: 7/10 Amusing.
Boomerang: 7/10. Style.
Luceid: 2/10. Not exactly a shining example of personality.
Lady Harken: 4/10. Uh. Kind of fails all over the place but at least they tried and she was imposing before you ever fought her.
Zeikfried: 7/10. "Hey waitaminute, having the world destroyed is Not Cool." A rare realization and then a working plot to overthrow the maniac. Good stuff. Loses a point for later failure.
Mother: 1/10, Rar I am the space fleas.
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Wild Arms 1:
(Note: I'm using the WA1 names but feel free to consider ACF. I'm not going to rank ACF separately. Use your own judgment and post only one rating, please.)
Belselk - 3/10 - Terribly incompetent. Not threatening or fearsome. Fails to seal the deal.
Alhazad - 6/10 - Hurr hurr I experiments. At least he feels the most threatening of my enemies!
Zed - DNR - You're a villain?
Boomerang - 4/10 - Too honourable. Also, seriously Boomerang, you just want to fight me... get some nefarious plot to back you please. ;9
Luceid - 1/10 - Bark bark. Woof.
Lady Harken - 7/10 - Swoooooooord Princessssssss.
Zeikfried - 7/10 - Backstabbing your leader just so you can take-over the world after all? Somehow, I found you a bit sympathetic, and cool.
Mother - 1/10 - Get some personality.
Wild ARMs 2:
Lord Blazer - 8/10 - LOHDO BULAZURU~~~~~~~~
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Wild Arms 1:
(Disclaimer - Only played WA1o, so if ACF made these guys fail less, I wouldn't know)
Belselk - Gades with a different name. Booooooring. 1/10
Alhazad - God man did you even do anything? 1/10
Zed - A more good-natured Gilgamesh, only it didn't really come off as well. Still somewhat amusing, though! And still better than the rest of this shit. 5/10
Boomerang - Some guy. 1/10
Luceid - His dog. 1/10
Lady Harken - Slightly less boring than Belselk and Alhazad! Says little, I know, but it brings her up a point. 2/10
Zeikfried - Hey it's the guy who tried to rebel against Mother, making him more interesting than the other Quarter Knights! Still not that great overall. 4/10.
Mother - And more failure. 1/10
Wild Arms 2:
Ptolomea - Eh, he was alright, though not really that interesting. 4/10
Judecca - Babies taste good. Wasn't even all that competent, either. 1/10
Antenora - Probably the most interesting motivation out of all the Cocytus members! 5/10
Caina - Boring. 1/10
Vinsfeld - Ideals! Yeah, unwitting dupes are fun. 6/10
Lord Blazer - Probably would've worked better if the game weren't translated by drunk, blind idiots, though. 4/10
Liz - Basically a more relevant Ultros, and is awesome. 7/10.
Ard - Is Liz's lackey, and is therefore awesome by association. 7/10
Irving Vold Valeria - I'll nth the hype. 9/10
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I can't vote on these, but just a request? On the Top/Bottom 10 lists, think you could add the game those characters are from as well please? :)
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I can't vote on these, but just a request? On the Top/Bottom 10 lists, think you could add the game those characters are from as well please? :)
It is so done.
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Wild Arms 1:
Belselk - 3/10. Was big and smashed stuff.
Alhazad - 6/10. Decent mad scientist character.
Zed - Not a villain.
Boomerang - 2/10. Fell way short of his hype, and his interaction with the PCs was kinda boring.
Luceid - 3/10. In theory a Guardian who sided with one of the demons could make for a very interesting character. Unfortunately he never really did anything with it, in or out of combat.
Lady Harken - 6/10. Started off as a strong villain, but eventually just became the damsel for Jack to rescue kill.
Zeikfried - 8/10. Saving the world so he can take it over.
Mother - 5/10. While she didn't have much in the way of motivation, I think that the scene with her in the crashed Photosphere did a good job of presenting her as a truly monstrous force.
Wild Arms 2:
Ptolomea - 4/10. Can't remember much about him other then caring for his men. If I knew why he was with the villains I might rank him higher.
Judecca - 1/10. Lost a duel to Tim back when he barely had any power. That's just sad.
Antenora - 7/10. Crazy, but in an interesting way.
Caina - 2/10. The only things I remember about Caina are a key and wanting to get in Vinsfeld's pants. I'm not even sure about gender here.
Vinsfeld - 5/10. He had high ideals and saw the world governments as corrupt! I'm not entirely sure what those ideals are or what he objected to, but he had those ideals, dang it!
Lord Blazer - 3/10. Was just kinda there for most of the game.
Valeria - 9/10. Woohoo! A character with clear motivations, and grand plan, and the ability to pull it off. Top marks for that. Then he lost a point for sleeping with his sister. Ew...
Liz - 7/10. Kinda funny, but he probably would have been a lot better with a decent translation.
Ard - 3/10. Was big and said "Ard" a lot.
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Wild Arms 1:
(Note: I'm using the WA1 names but feel free to consider ACF. I'm not going to rank ACF separately. Use your own judgment and post only one rating, please.)
Belselk - 3/10 Smashy and mean.
Alhazad - 5/10 Experiments, actually came off as decently nasty.
Zed - 7/10 Barely a villain, but somewhat funny and pretty memorable, and still not a total pushover despite it.
Boomerang - 2/10 Eh.
Luceid - 2/10 Eh and his dog.
Lady Harken - 6/10 Kind of cool and different.
Zeikfried - 7/10 Actually does some interesting things with the betrayal to conquer the world instead of wrecking it.
Mother - 4/10 Space flea, but somewhat threatening.
Wild Arms 3:
Melody - 3/10 Weird arrogant chick and that's it.
Malik - 4/10 Pretty damn crazy. That's it really. Also, chicken man, I guess.
Leehalt - 4/10 Kind of a mastermind, without really being one. Manipulates while being manipulated by someone who's manipulated.
Janus - 3/10 Bottom of the manipulation scale. Also kind of a punk.
Asgard - 5/10 Cool robot with character development and stuff.
Siegfried - 4/10 Got kind of lame since WA1, but still
Beatrice - 8/10 Actually a really interesting manipulator at times. Needed more exposure though.
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Caina - 2/10. The only things I remember about Caina are a key and wanting to get in Vinsfeld's pants. I'm not even sure about gender here.
There's actually a good reason for that. Caina was a boy in the Japanese version, but was changed to female for the US version.
In either case, I find your lack of Randolph the Magic Key hype disturbing.
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Belselk: 5/10. Refuses to be teleported! Amusing in ACF, but nothing more.
Alhazad: 7/10. Suitably creepy and sinister.
Zed: 7/10. A scarf blowing in the wind! True power!
Boomerang: 1/10. No.
Luceid: DNR. Woof.
Lady Harken: 5/10. Guess she's okay.
Zeikfried: 4/10. His double cross is awesome, but that's all he has going for him.
Mother: 2/10. Rar.
Wild Arms 2:
Ptolomea: 6/10. Contrasts with the rest of Odessa well. Doesn't go the extra step, though.
Judecca: 3/10. Mm, babies.
Antenora: 3/10. Stupid.
Caina: 3/10. Doesn't even get points for being a rare gay character in an RPG because Sony of America are a bunch of twits.
Vinsfeld: 6/10. PURE IDEALS. Liked his role in the plot rather than he himself.
Lord Blazer: Um. 2/10, very random.
Liz: 7/10. Very amusing.
Ard: 7/10. Liz.
Irving: 9/10. Good stuff.
Wild Arms 3:
Melody
Malik
Leehalt
The Prophets are so weird. Individually they are dislikable people, but as a group they are very effective and feel like a villainous "party" to oppose the PCs. They have more interaction and development than PC parties in some other games, honestly. Weird case. Today I'll give them all 6/10, on balance.
Janus: 3/10. He's sort of the prophets' annoying, arrogant younger brother. He was fine in Chapter 1, though not special, but as time wore on he just became grating, as well as increasing lulsy in battle.
Asgard: 6/10. Pretty cool.
Siegfried: 6/10. Suitable presence as a big bad, good interaction with the Prophets.
Beatrice: 8/10. Wonderful manipulator, everything kinda fell into place when she entered the scene.
Maya: 8/10. Excellent foil for Virginia.
Todd: 7/10. AFROMAN.
Shady: 100000/10. Shady. (okay 7/10 works shut up I hate you all)
Alfred: 7/10. Pyro.
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Wild Arms 1:
Belselk: 4/10. Refuses to be teleported, yeah. That was funny, but it's all he's got. Otherwise a stock, but inoffensive, bruiser.
Alhazad: 5/10. Sufficiently odd to leave an impression.
Zed: 7/10. Quite entertaining.
Boomerang: 3/10. Meh.
Luceid: DNR. Has no presence outside of "dog that fights with Boomerang."
Lady Harken: 6/10. Not objectively a great villain, but far too much my style to get a lower rating.
Zeikfried: 4/10. The Photosphere gambit was neat, but he's fairly boring outside of that and also marred by the Mother fusion.
Mother: 4/10. Ruins the plot, but the aesthetics are admirably weird and I actually like the idea behind her. She just needed to not be in the second half of the game.
Wild Arms 2:
Ptolomea: 5/10. Yeah, he's okay.
Judecca: 3/10. Inept and stupid. What kind of terrorist loses to Tim?
Antenora: 6/10. Completely nuts, but at least in a novel fashion.
Caina: 6/10. Sure. While I wouldn't call most of WA2's cast great, they do succeed at being memorable.
Vinsfeld: 5/10. Less intriguing than most of his subordinates. I guess how laughable he is is worth a few points, though.
Lord Blazer: 3/10. Meh. Yeah, they build up to him, but his screen presence derives solely from the music and I'm not sure I can give him credit for that.
Irving: 10/10. Is the saving grace of WA2. Clearly took lessons from *Watchmen spoilers*.
Wild Arms 3:
Melody/Malik/Leehalt: 7/10. Yeah, ranking them together. I've always liked that (despite their individual obsessions) the Prophets are essentially fighting for survival--it's just that their survival happens to be mutually exclusive with the rest of the world's.
Janus: 6/10. Is a toolbox, but it's funny just how badly he gets owned.
Asgard: 8/10. Because I'm a sucker for A.I. characters and this is one of the better examples in videogames.
Siegfried: 4/10. Always found him pretty dull, honestly.
Beatrice: 8/10. Could've felt tacked-on, but all the pieces are there to make her fit with the rest of the plot--you just don't recognize them as such until much later. The cameos were nice.
Schroedinger Collective: 8/10. Yeah, they're fun.
I like WA3's cast probably more than some of them deserve, but eh. The game's a personal favorite.
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Belselk- 5/10. He is inoffensive and has one good scene.
Alhazad- 7/10. Alhazad is probably the most threatening of the villains from WA1, since he does all the evil scheming and the science stuff. Schemy science villains are very good if done well. Alhazad is done okay.
Zed- DNR. Sorry, Zed, you're playable and you never do anything evil.
Boomerang- 4/10. You were a pretty big Shadow knockoff. But I like Shadow.
Luceid- DNR. Sorry, but you're not important enough in this game, despite how they hype you.
Lady Harken- 8/10. This is not so much for her villainy, but for her relationship with Jack, which I found to be pretty well-done.
Zeikfried- 5/10. Ruined by the end. God damn.
Mother- 5/10. Should not have come back, because she ruined Sieg, who I really liked up until then.
Wild Arms 2:
Ptolomea- 4/10. You felt bad for kicking his ass, and he was an occasional foil to Brad who was pretty good about it.
Judecca- 2/10. I don't really remember you doing anything besides cliche bad guy stuff.
Antenora- 3/10. I don't really remember you. You were letting Vinsfield put it in you or something, right? Reminds the audience you're a manipulative bitch, but that doesn't make you a villain.
Caina- 1/10. I hate you, Caina. I hate your fucking dungeon that you made me do more than anything in the world.
Vinsfeld- 7/10. Grats to you, Vins. You were just the right amount of pretentious and ruthless.
Lord Blazer- 5/10. Underused as a looming, ominous presence.
Irving- 11/10. Irving is the best thing in WA2; yes, he's even better than that part where Brad comes hauling ass across the desert with a railgun.
Wild Arms 3:
Melody- 3/10. Gets owned by Clive. That's her high point.
Malik- 1/10. Fuck you and your mother complexes, Japan. I know you guys can't get your rocks off normally anymore, but it wasn't cool when you made Norman Bates an effeminate ladyboy the first time, and it's not cool this time either.
Leehalt- 2/10. You had some vague plans and shit, and I can't say I was ever surprised by them, which I thought was the point of a schemer.
Janus- 4/10. He was persistent, and I have to respect that.
Asgard- 6/10. I think I'd like him better if he had Susan Richards' rack to go with her power. But he's not a bad character.
Siegfried- 7/10. Like the Prophets, but he wasn't a furry. He was also mostly free of those idiotic complexes that the Prophets wouldn't shut up about that made me hate them.
Beatrice- 1/10. Hi you stood in the background of scenes and that is supposed to make me worry about you? Fuck that. I've got nothing good to say about you.
In summary: Fuck WA3.
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Wild Arms 1:
(Note: I'm using the WA1 names but feel free to consider ACF. I'm not going to rank ACF separately. Use your own judgment and post only one rating, please.)
Belselk- 4
Alhazad- 7
Zed- 7. Liked his arc well enough.
Boomerang- 2
Luceid- DNR
Lady Harken- 5. Weird. Bland as a villain, slightly used backstory...I don't know. Backstory is really what drives any caring you have for her.
Zeikfried- 6. Not like he wanted the fusion.
Mother- 4
Wild Arms 2:
Ptolomea- 3. He existed.
Judecca- 3. Even ignoring losing to Tim, WA 2 translation hurt him I think (Or else he was meant have an offbeat unfunny line or two?)
Antenora- 7. Really like what they did with her, although execution holds her back a bit.
Caina- 3
Vinsfeld- 6
Lord Blazer- 2
Liz- 9. Favorite joke villian ever. Does not objectively deserve this score of course!
Ard- 7. Objectively deserves this score even less!
Irving- 10
Wild Arms 3:
Melody- 6. 1 Less than the other prophets because her fail was more generic and in your face.
Malik- 7
Leehalt- 7. The Prophets were well set up as villains, yeah.
Janus- 2. At some point, it was just annoying that he wouldn't go away.
Asgard- 6
Siegfried- I don't remember well enough, but doesn't have the excuse like Beatrice! Just...don't remember.
Beatrice- Don't remember well enough, given her character type.
WriteIns
Maya- 8. Great overall arc.
Other Schroedingers- 3. 2 Points for being Maya's accessories. Other than that, almost non-existant, and when Todd at least talks, I just he wouldn't.
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Belselk - 4, generic and inoffensive
Alhazad - 7, felt threatening, worked well in the opening scene, really started to hate him, so that was nicely done.
Zed - 7. Entertaining lackey-type.
Boomerang - 4. Ugh, but not objectively bad, just generic and no real development. I like the unwavering honor-types, but he needed more. May deserve higher for ACF, but I haven't gotten to him there yet.
Luceid - 4. Points solely for being a guardian on the bad side... there's not much to him, though.
Lady Harken - 8. Memorable. Sympathetic. Badass.
Zeikfried - 8. My kind of villain.
Mother - 6. Worked as a great antithesis to Zeik. Eating her children was suitably creepy.
WA2
Ptolomea - 5. Held back by WA2 translation, but otherwise a cool sympathetic villain.
Judecca - 3. REALLY held back by WA2 translation.
Antenora - 6. Crazy, though WA2 translation...
Caina - 5. My opinion here changes too often depending how generous I'm feeling about WA2 localization.
Vinsfield - 6. And still laughing about Lurkerson's comment on him.
Lord Blazer - 6. My favorite space flea~ A shame about WA2 localization messing everything up...
Liz - 7. Best part of WA2?
Ard - 6. And his partner?
Irving - 6. Not bad, sufficiently creepy... but his role came as no surprise whatsoever? I don't know, I'm going to blame WA2 translation + having played it loooong after its release date on ruining this character for me... I just don't see the hype.
WA3
Melody - 5. Owned by Clive. Generic craziness. Plays well with others.
Malik - 6. Gets things done with the other Prophets. Felt like a threat. Mother Complex is memorable.
Leehalt - 4. Wanted in Virginia's mom's pants. Somehow that STILL didn't make him creepy. Gets all his points from working well with the other Prophets.
Janus - 9. I really like how they played Janus. To me, I kept seeing his presence as a dark reminder that not all Drifters are awesome wonderful people (Unlike Maya/Virginia's teams, who are more like superheroes than mercenary/bandits...), which had always felt like the aesthetic that the WA series was trying to portray with its 'lawless wild west' setting. He also worked as a fun foil to Virginia's team. He was just a slightly-less-do-gooder-type who was after the same treasure that Virginia&co. had recently acquired and he ends up as a monstrous tool being played by multiple manipulators. Maybe the game didn't go out of its way to portray him as sympathetic, but I definitely inferred a lot of fear and regret in his later actions where he's desperately trying to regain control of his situation. And of course, there was always that lingering thought that the other Drifters were only one or two bad decisions away from becoming something like him. Definitely my favorite part of WA3.
Asgard - 6. Yep. Good presence. AI characters are fun.
Siegfried - 5. Generic-y manipulator.
Beatrice - 6. Felt tacked-on to me. But apparently she puts in a better showing on a second playthrough? Points for being a computer demon.
Maya - 8. Somewhat difficult to think of her as a villain, but she's definitely someone standing in Virginia's way for a large portion of the game. Also, the second-best part of WA3.
Alfred - 4. Meh.
Todd - 4. Afro-Magdalene!
Shady - 6. 5 points for Schroedinger's cat jokes.
Huh, WAs villains scored waaay higher than I was expecting.
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Wild Arms 1:
Voting based on ACF mind cause its fresher in my mind.
Belselk: 6/10. Lame personality, but he did actually come off as genuinely threatening those early parts which felt like why he existed, so I'll give him a nod for that (if this was WA1, he'd have scored lower <_<)
Alhazad: 4/10. I dunno, just didn't like him.
Zed: 7/10. Is awesome.
Boomerang: 3/10. Whatever.
Luceid: DNR. Woof and such.
Lady Harken: 4/10. Story had potential, but egads was it poorly handled.
Zeikfried: 6/10. Gets a point for being a competent SANE villain, which is something you don't see very often, and his failures were mostly at the cost of things he really couldn't predict at all (see the Rudy amputates arm scenario; can't blame a villain for losing cause for once an RPG main DIDN'T wuss out of something as stark as that.)
Mother: 4/10. Batshit insane! And not really amusing about it either.
Wild Arms 2:
Ptolomea: 6/10. The honorable scumbag who when he dies, you do kind of feel bad that things ended up this way...or something...
Judecca: 4/10. Lezard with a gun, moving on.
Antenora: 5/10. I'll give her a point cause her plan was pretty creative ("Force boss to fall in love with me -> Die somewhere down the line -> Boss is now in immense despair! ANd he'll never know I never loved him!" purely to get revenge), but that's about it.
Caina: 4/10. generic underling, being homosexual who had his sex change to avoid censorship doesn't really do much for a villain.
Vinsfeld: 6/10. PURE IDEALS! Fulfilled his role well enough.
Lord Blazer: 3/10. Cloud of Darkness, except with a stylish battle and awesome music.
Irving Valeria: 9/10. Uh, yeah, wow, damn complex plan that actually worked and there was really no way to anticipate his actions at all, and it still fit in well with the plot, instead of feeling like an ass pull. THAT's a behind the scene villain for you.
Wild Arms 3:
Melody: 4/10. I FEEL PRETTY! OH SO PRETTY! I FEEL PRETTY AND HAPPY AND-...what? I'm ugly? DIE CLIVE!!!
Malik: 4/10. Mother, I will take you...to the promised land!
Leehalt: 3/10. I'm the villain! Fear my generic motives!
Prophets as a group: 6/10. Yeah, see elfboy. They're really meant to work together as a team, which the dynamic works, rather than individuals, where they're...all kind of just quirks.
Janus: 4/10. He'd be 7/10 if he actually died in Chapter 1, where he was an effective scum bag to foil Virginia being this noble but naive drifter...but then comes Chapter 2 where he just fails badly, overstaying his welcome, and just being a tool. Or as i once said "little kid who wants to get back at his parents, but can't cause he's smaller."
Asgard: 6.5/10. Lame until the last stretch of the game where he suddenly grows a personality and is actually kind of interesting. This obviously was the point though, given the whole Gather Data -> Evolve! thing or whatever, but felt like he needed more time with the personality to truly be effective. Probably one of the best "Robot who grows emotions/personality" I've seen though, so he gets half a point for that.
Siegfried: 6/10. Equivalent to his WA1 self more or less; deserves a nod since for once he's NOT this big uber threat of death like all these villainous bosses are, but rather, just a leader whose overall stronger than his partners, but not to a point where he's on a whole other level compared to your team. (Maya's BOOST RAIL GUN FAFNIR HORN! was a good example of that.)
Beatrice: 7/10. Another well handled behind the scenes villain! Take notes Ultimecia.
Maya: 7/10. Good foil for Virginia, who worked as a replacement foil, perse, of Janus when Janus decided to become a total lamer.
Todd: 6/10. Afro Henchman.
Alfred: 6/10. Had some good lines that did well to make fun of Maya ("She's only going to the tower cause its closer than the other, more reliable lead, so she has to walk less!"), and was about the closest thing you can get to a "Normal" person in the group.
Shady: 7/10. yeah, sure, "its shady" works.
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Wild Arms 1:
Belselk - 5/10 - Not too threatening, mostly there, but vaguely cool as a RAWR BABY SMASH villain.
Alhazad - 7.5/10 - Freaky villain.
Zed - N/A - Don't really see much I can rank on bad guyness
Boomerang - 6/10 - Superboss was vaguely cool, and adds the little bit Djinn said was missing.
Luceid - N/A - A dog.
Lady Harken - 6/10 - Mmm...the dynamic kind of works.
Zeikfried - 7.5/10 - Double-cross was sexy.
Mother - 3/10 - There, mostly. Kind of cute, though.
Wild Arms 2:
Ptolomea - 3.0 - Blends together with the others
Judecca - 3.0 - Yeah
Antenora - 3.0 - Yeah...
Caina - 3.0 - Again!
Vinsfeld - 4.0 - What an awful terrorist.
Lord Blazer - 1.0 - Looks fucking ridiculous, which gets him a point for being a joke and hilarious. Horrible otherwise, though
Wild Arms 3:
Melody - 7 - I liked the beauty thing; really made her seem more corrupt and evil than the others
Malik - 7 - Oedipus complex fun + working with the others
Leehalt - 6 - Felt the weakest alone
Janus - 8 - I agree with Djinn; he felt like a workable antagonist, though a failure in general, which was amusing
Asgard - 1 - Did not feel like one very much
Siegfried - 2.25 - Eh....
Beatrice - 7 - To appreciate her, really need to replay; still nice
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WA 1:
Belselk: 4/10. Works well as a minor villain. Wasn't as funny as he should have been though.
Alhazad: 8/10. Good balance between working for the demon race and doing his own stuff. Actually managed to feel threatening, something most other WA villains don't. Still fell short of "awesome".
Zed: 6.5/10. Funny. That's really all there is to it.
Boomerang: 5/10. He had style, but not much more. He was the one who worked with the villain because it served his own desires. The game made it clear that he had strong desires, but as for what the desires are, all I got was "fight though opponents" which I don't see as interesting.
Luceid: DNR. He is no more deserving of being ranked than Shadow's dog.
Lady Harken: 7/10. Served the purpose of developing Jack and also characterizing Alhazad. Also has style. Still, I found her backstory uninteresting beyond what it could do for Jack and I can't say I care for her.
Zeikfried: 6.5/10. Competent villain. Not that interesting though.
Mother: 6/10. Had a level of creepiness and felt threatening, but was also sometimes annoying.
WA 2:
Ptolomea: 3/10. Someone to hit. His quirk of being honorable did absolutely nothing for me.
Judecca: 2/10. Has nothing going for him and is annoying to boot. Didn't get enough screentime to qualify for a lower score though.
Antenora: 3/10. Her quirk may have worked had she had more screentime. As it is, she never grabbed any interest.
Caina: 3/10. Someone to hit. His quirk does nothing.
Vinsfield: 7/10. I liked his speech and his attitude and he was delightfully hypocritical. Still a bit lacking though. His reasoning could have been better developed, I got that he blamed the presence of the monsters on corruption, but there has to be more to it.
Lord Blazer: 3/10. Helped to develop Ashley, but had nothing going for himself. When he finally appeared, his was defeated almost immediately.
Liz: 6.5. See Zed.
Ard: 5/10. Not as fun. Saying "Ard" all the time did limit him some.
Irving: 7/10. Well developed and competent. His plot twist didn't have any impact though due to poor foreshadowing.
WA 3:
Melody: 4/10. Existed only to be owned by Clive. Still works, but isn't interesting or anything.
Malik: 4/10. His Oedipus complex prevents him from being completely bland, but that's it.
Leehalt: 5/10. The most competent of them, but not so much he actually impress me.
As noted before, the prophets work better as a whole than individually. It was either them or the rest of the world and they made the selfish choice and made up some bullshit about evolving the world as a justification. As a team I'd give them 7/10.
Janus: 5/10. Works fairly well at the beginning, but should have died in chapter 1. Rather fitting though that he was all "screw others" and then died via the same treatment.
Asgard: 7/10. Felt like a threat and was fairly interesting.
Siegfried: 4/10. Take Zeikfried, but chop of most of the screentime and don't give him someone to conspire against.
Beatrice: 7/10. Stylish and delightfully creepy and I liked her appearances throughout the game. Entered the spotlight way to late though at which point the game had gone on long enough already.
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Wild Arms 1:
Belselk - Strongest demon who smashs things. Every villain team needs one so a 6/10.
Alhazad - Psycho who notices Zeik isn't himself but just doesn't care enough to do anything about it. Doesn't seem to overly care what people do as long as he gts what he wants. Decent enough. 7/10
Zed - Would have liked more interaction with the other villains. Funny enough. 7/10
Boomerang - Been kicking ass and taking names for over a 1000 years. I would say he has honour but how he killed Belselk wasn't exactly fair. 5/10.
Luceid - Follows boomerang around. 2/10
Lady Harken - Darkness tear thing is weird. 4/10
Zeikfried - I like him as a villain but I really wonder how aware he was of the times. I mean didn't he ever leave his base? If he'd bother to see how the world was he wouldn't have needed crap like the dark tear. I mean he leads an attack on one of the two nations with power and destroys it easily. Meanwhile Belselk brings the other to its knees again easily. Guardians are weakened, humans are weak in general, elws gone, golems mostly belong to him so why not just invade?
Mother - An idiot for telling Zeik she was going to kill him. 2/10
Wild Arms 3:
Melody,Malik, Leehalt - Work as the major villains for most of the game. 7/10.
Janus - Screwed over the above three before being manhandled quite easily by Seig. I quite liked his black hat style. 7/10
Asgard - For all that he is a machine who is pretty bland for most of the game I really like him, also the time traveling thing was pretty good. 9/10
Siegfried - plot powers of doom and has a pretty good ablity that is actually pretty interstng. Other then that he just kind of gets battered after spouting he is stronger. Also THE BLADE OF JUSTICE IS BLUNT! 6/10
Beatrice - I like how she got rid of Seig. 8/10
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Bumping this. I'll be updating this evening or tomorrow, get your votes in now!
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Short version: I liked WA2's characters way better than WA1 or WA3.
Wild Arms 1:
Belselk - 2/10 Generic rargh demon.
Alhazad - 2/10 Generic rargh demon.
Zed - 5/10 Didn't find him as funny as others did, but wasn't generic at least.
Boomerang - 4/10 - A decent villain for WA1, but bad anywhere else.
Luceid - DNR, 4/10 if ranked anyway. Doesn't really count.
Lady Harken - No ranking from me. I don't really recall much dramatic interaction with Jack that her plotline would suggest, more "rargh we're rivals wait it's so tragic oh noes."
Zeikfried - 6/10 - Credit for "Screw destroying the world, Mother's gone crazy, let's go back to conquering it!"
Mother - 4/10. Exists for Zeik to beat up. She should not have randomly come back, gets docked a point for that.
Wild Arms 2:
Ptolomea - 6/10 Solid henchmen, rivalry with Brad, good times.
Judecca - 3/10 Definitely a weak link. Agree that the translation hurts here, I think he was supposed to be sarcastic?
Antenora - 7/10 "Seduce Vinsfeld so that he will be pissed after I die." Weird, but sure, and it worked.
Caina - 3/10 Random crazy henchman.
Vinsfeld - 7/10 I liked Vinsfeld.
Lord Blazer - 5/10. Not really an entity as a villain, but made the story a bit more interesting with the KnightBlazer addition.
Liz & Ard - 7/10 Amusing.
Irving - 9/10 Almost tempted to say not a villain? He did save the world after all. I love villains who set up "Heads I win, Tails I win" situations, since if Odessa had won that'd have been fine too.
Wild Arms 3:
Melody, Malik, Leehalt - 6/10? Agree with Dark Holy Elf, they're kind of lame individually, but as a group they're an effective evil presence.
Janus - 7/10 Best villain of WA3. Kinda pathetic, yet damnably persistent. I approve.
Asgard - 2/10 I totally forget anything villainous he did, so it can't have been that good.
Siegfried - 4/10 RARGH I WILL CONQUER YOU AGAIN.
Beatrice - 5/10 I TOTALLY PLANNED EVERYTHING VIA EVIL DREAMS. SORTA.
WA3 kept on trading down in villainy. I liked CHapter 1 & 2's Prophets / Janus, Siegfried & Beatrice were meh.
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Wild Arms 1:
Belselk- 5/10
Alhazad- ???
Zed- 8/10.
Boomerang- ??
Luceid- ???
Lady Harken- 10/10!!!
Zeikfried- ???
Mother- ???
Wild Arms 2:
Ptolomea- 4/10
Judecca- 4/10
Antenora- 7/10. Ridiculously weird and twisted. WA2 PLOT.
Caina- 1/10
Vinsfeld- 5/10.
Lord Blazer- uhhhhhDNR/10
Irving- 8/10
Liz- 7/10
Ard- 10/10
Wild Arms 3:
Melody- 1/10. The only reason I voted.
Malik- 3/10
Leehalt- 1.5/10. Not Melody, so he gets 0.5 points.
Janus- 2/10
Asgard- ???
Siegfried- ???
Beatrice- 5/10
Maya- 2/10
Shady- 7/10
Todd- 6/10
ALFRED- 10/10
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Wild Arms 1: (No ACF as of now.)
Belselk: 2/10. Generic.
Alhazad: 1.5/10. Generic, boringish.
Zed: 5/10. Silly.
Boomerang: 4/10. Remember him more than Belselk/Alhazad.
Luceid: 2/10, DNR. Doesn't really count.
Lady Harken: 4/10. See Boomerang.
Zeikfried: 5/10. Generic but kinda made a bit more sense?
Mother: 3/10. Meh.
Wild Arms 2:
Ptolomea: Abstain, absolutely no recollection.
Judecca: 2/10. Failed, IIRC.
Antenora: 5/10. Twisted motivation works for a generic villian.
Caina: 2/10.
Rudolph The Magic Key Or Whatever The Fuck His Name Was: 8/10, the real villian of the game even beyond Irving.
Vinsfeld: 5/10, was kinda interesting and his ghost killed me.
Lord Blazer: 4/10, DNR. Space Flea-ish.
Irving: 9/10. Yeah, he was impressive.
Liz: 8/10. Best monologues in any game ever.
Ard: 9/10. Ard ard ard.
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Whatever.
Wild Arms 1:
Belselk - 6/10
Alhazad - 5/10
Zed - 7/10
Boomerang - 3/10
Luceid - 1/10
Lady Harken - 9/10
Zeikfried - 4/10
Mother - 1/10
Wild Arms 2:
Ptolomea - 3/10
Judecca - 3/10
Antenora - 8/10
Caina - 4/10
Vinsfeld - 5/10
Lord Blazer - 1/10
Irving - 9/10
Liz - 8/10
Ard - 8/10
Wild Arms 3:
Melody - 2/10
Malik - 3/10
Leehalt - 3/10
Janus - 4/10
Asgard - 5/10
Siegfried - 4/10
Beatrice - 9/10
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Okay, that's it! I'm updating today, results should be posted tonight.
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Here's the results!
Wild Arms 1:
Belselk: 3.95, 21 rankers.
Alhazad: 5.45, 20 rankers.
Zed: 6.40, 16 rankers. (3 DNR)
Boomerang: 4.05, 20 rankers.
Luceid: DNR. (2.25, 12 rankers.)
Lady Harken: 6.20, 20 rankers.
Zeikfreid: 5.73, 19 rankers.
Mother: 3.50, 20 rankers.
Wild Arms 2:
Ptolomea: 4.34, 16 rankers.
Judecca: 2.64, 17 rankers.
Antenora: 5.76, 17 rankers.
Caina: 3.17, 17 rankers.
Vinsfeld: 5.76, 17 rankers.
Lord Blazer: 3.82, 17 rankers. (1 DNR)
Irving Vold Valeria: 9.00, 16 rankers.
Liz: 7.04, 12 rankers.
Ard: 6.50, 12 rankers.
Wild Arms 3:
Melody: 4.46, 16 rankers.
Malik: 4.87, 16 rankers.
Leehalt: 4.46, 16 rankers.
Janus: 4.87, 16 rankers.
Asgard: 5.76, 15 rankers.
Siegfried: 4.23, 14 rankers.
Beatrice: 6.20, 15 rankers.
Maya: 6.83, 6 rankers.
Todd: 5.66, 6 rankers.
Shady: 6.33, 6 rankers.
Alfred: 6.33, 6 rankers.
More coming in the next post.
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Top ten highest ranked villains:
1. Delita(FFT): 9.04, 12 rankers. (3 DNR)
2. Irving Vold Valeria(WA2): 9.00, 16 rankers.
3. Dycedarg(FFT): 7.86, 15 rankers.
4. Bangaa(FFTA2): 7.66, 3 rankers.
5. Jecht(FFX): 7.30, 15 rankers. (3 DNR)
6. Reno(FF7): 7.21, 21 rankers.
7. Liz: 7.04, 12 rankers.
8. Rufus(FF7): 6.97, 21 rankers.
9. Algus(FFT): 6.90, 15 rankers.
10. Sin(FFX): 6.87, 16 rankers. (3 DNR)
Top ten lowest ranked villains
1. Zemus/Zeromus(FF4): 1.88, 17 rankers.
2. Necron(FF9): 2.13, 22 rankers.
3. Adel(FF8): 2.33, 18 rankers. (1 DNR)
4. Mewt(FFTA): 2.44, 9 rankers.
5t. Milon(FF4): 2.60, 15 rankers (3 DNRs)
5t. Lani(FF9): 2.60, 20 rankers. (2 DNR)
7. Judecca(WA2): 2.64, 17 rankers.
8. Ewen(FFTA2): 2.66, 3 rankers.
9. Llendar(FFTA): 2.75, 8 rankers. (1 DNR)
10. Hein(FF3): 2.83/DNR, 6 rankers.
FLAT OUT FAILED:
Baigan: DNR (2.2, 10 voters.)
Jenova: DNR (3.00, 12 rankers.)
Edea: DNR (4.8, 10 rankers.)
Beatrix: DNR (5.83, 10 rankers.)
Golagros: DNR (4.5, 6 rankers.)
Bart: DNR (3.2, 5 rankers.)
Celia: DNR (4.00, 7 rankers.)
Lede: DNR. (4.28, 7 rankers.)
High Priest Funeral: DNR (3.66, 6 rankers.)
Kletian: DNR (3.42, 7 rankers.)
Cid: DNR. (4.00, 3 rankers.)
Neukhia: DNR. (4.00, 2 rankers.)
Luceid: DNR. (2.25, 12 rankers.)
FLAT OUT FAILED TO EVEN GET UP TO FAIL:
Kain(1.0, 1 vote)
Tunnel Armor(10, 1 vote)
Yuffie(4.0, 1 vote)
The Occuria(5.33, 3 votes)
Dycedarg's Elder Brother(10.00, 1 vote.)
Professor Daravon(10.00, 1 vote.)
Marche(10.00, 1 vote.)
Games ranked:
FF1, FF2, FF3, FF4, FF5, FF6, FF7, FF8, FF9, FF10, FF12, FFT, FFTA, FFTA2, WA1, WA2, WA3.
-Note-
If you want to DNR, make sure you say DNR. If you say no vote or leave it ambiguous, I'm going to count it as a blank vote. I really don't want to have to play vote interpretation when I'm tallying these up. Thanks.
Anyway, interesting round. I think Liz/Ard curved higher since they were were write-ins, as the people who don't care for them may have been more inclined to not include them versus giving them a low vote if they were. Oh well. Irving is also mad-villainous, giving Delita a close run for his money. I thought he was going to pull it off, but he came up short by .04. Harsh.
This round it's going to be all about finishing up the Wild Arms series.
Wild Arms 4:
Jeremy
Scythe
Belial
Lambda
Gawn
Hugo
Balgaine
Enil
Farmel
Tony
Kresnik
Augst
The Congressional Knights
Wild Arms 5:
Nightburn
Persephone
Fereydoon
Kartikeya
Elvis
Volsung
Wild Arms XF:
Edna
Weisheit
Charlton
Rupert
Katrina
Eisen
Chelle
Piedras
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Wild Arms 4:
Jeremy- 4/10. Pathetic enough to be memorable, and that's it.
Scythe- 5/10. Points for the plane scene.
Belial- 6/10. Different take on a villian, I guess. I'm not too enthused about this cast in general.
Lambda-Pass.
Gawn- 0/10- I've ranted about him enough. Is completely worthless in every regard as a foe and his death scene is a bad joke.
Hugo- Pass.
Balgaine- Pass.
Enil- Pass.
Farmel- 6/10. Skanky minion. DId her job well enough.
Tony- 3/10. Didn't find him funny, just annoying.
Kresnik- 1/10. HAY I'M GOING TO KILL MYSELF TO MAKE MY SISTER HAPPY CLEARLY THIS IS THE WISEST PATH no you should have thrown yourself off the nearest bridge when you were 5 to save everyone the pathetic, whining angst.
Augst- 6/10. Brutally logical. It's hard to not appreciate that.
The Congressional Knights- 2/10. Exist to be owned.
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Wild Arms 4:
Jeremy: 2/10. Failure henchman? Sure.
Scythe: 1/10 Retard with a vampire fetish. He could be funny as a parody of vampire fans, but it's so damned painful to watch and he has very little screentime.
Belial: 5/10. She has a certain style that puts her above the dreck.
Lambda: 1/10 Blah blah blah hot blood blah blah blah shut up. Also looks like a bad 70s hangover.
Gawn: 1/10. Oh hey, you're a fucking retard. I'm SHOCKED.
Hugo: 7/10. I was a sucker for his style. This isn't something I can defend.
Balgaine: DNR. Who?
Enil: DNR. Who?
Farmel: 2/10. A point for having something to look at besides her face.
Tony: 1/10. Stupid, boring gimmick.
Kresnik: EDIT: 1/10. ON FURTHER REVIEW, I forgot his suicidal bullshit. Fuck Kresnik.
Augst: 3/10. Three points for being almost-sorta amusing once or twice.
The Congressional Knights: DNR.
Wild Arms 5:
Nightburn: 1/10. If WA5 wasn't a steaming pile of shit, he might have gone somewhere. Stupid music too.
Persephone: 2/10. The only way she could score higher is if she embraced nudism in the ending. Being emo for Nightburn is like -1000000 right then and there.
Fereydoon: 2/10. Something about honor and a girl and some shit? Been there, done that.
Kartikeya: 4/10. Okay, Greg pulls Kartikeya up. Kartikeya was lame, but he gets some rub off points.
Elvis: 1/10. I don't like his type of character to begin with.
Volsung: 1/10. I've scorched Volsung's fuckery out of my mind. I'm happier for it!
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Wild Arms 4:
Jeremy: 5/10. Gets a point for persistence.
Scythe: 5/10. Gets a point for his last scene.
Belial: 8/10. Girl had style. Also gets a point for being final-boss level powerful and yet an earlygamish fight.
Lambda: 5/10. A little too emo for my taste, but generally fun enough. Killed the truly horrible excuses for villains so that is cool too.
Gawn: 3/10. No.
Hugo: 5/10. Gets a point for style (dedicated, self-controlled fighter with no real code of honor) and that is it.
Balgaine: 5/10. ROCKET ANTI-TANK CHAINSAW.
Enil: 3/10. She contributed so very little. Loses points for being a joke fight.
Farmel: 6/10. Gets a point for being hot. And for a decent scene or two with Lambda.
Tony: 6/10. DAMN KIDS. Tony was amusing.
Kresnik: 2/10. Extremely annoying as a villain.
Augst: 7/10. Gets points for being the 'normal' guy that couldn't fight, his jokes, and his end. Doesn't lose points for his boss fight being easy because it makes for great DL fodder!
The Congressional Knights: 1/10. Seriously they suck.
Wild Arms 5:
Nightburn: 6/10. Gets a points for style. Loses points for being an idiot.
Persephone: 7/10. Gets points for being hot. The scene with her giving Rebecca a medicine that would kill a little girl was very revealing of her cold nature and just fairly well handled. Could have been better but her Nightburn fangirlism kind of sucked.
Fereydoon: 5/10. Just so utterly... bland. Worked, though. And the romance angle with a human was amusing.
Kartikeya: 6/10. He sucks, yes... but he works so dang well for what he is supposed to be. And the grim consequences of his actions are shown to strong effect.
Elvis: 8/10. As comedy villains go, he manages to be awesome. As serious villains go he manages to be okay. Biggest complaint is that his acceptance of the plan would have meant CAROL'S death too, but he seemed to overlook that so it is possible he had a plan around that.
Volsung: 3/10. Gets a point for some style, loses points for being failure.
Wild Arms XF:
Edna: 7/10. Edna is a villain you are supposed to love to hate. And boy does she work for that.
Weisheit: 5/10. She manages to be very cool in some parts of the game. Unfortunately he comes back in the end and .... ugh.l
Charlton: 9/10. He can get this far on pure style. And being composed of BOTH personal ambition and a true desire to see Filgaia prosper... (obviously 'prosper' is subject to interpretation)
Rupert: 7/10. Despicable scumbag. But he plays this role very well.
Katrina: 7/10. How can I not love the villain who gave us such lines as "My soul itches!" and "FEED ME YOUR FEAR, BITCHES!" wait you mean she didn't say that second one? Well, you get the picture. (In seriousness, the left-field nature of her combined with the strange dichotomy of a little girl being PURE EVIL worked very well. Unnerving Charlton also scores points. She just felt like a force of nature past a certain part in the story... and that was exactly what she was supposed to be)
Eisen: 4/10. Bland.
Chelle: 7/10. Gets a point for being hot. I enjoyed some of her dialogue with Ragnar. I know I'm weird for that but I can't change what I enjoyed. Also liked her last scene.
Piedras: 2/10. RAR I EAT BABIES AND AM BLAND AS ****. Gets a single point for being a giant freaking worm.
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Wild Arms 4:
Jeremy: 3/10 Meh. Kinda generic psychopath who really was just kinda there.
Scythe: 4/10 Wannabe vampire.
Belial: 7/10 Pretty good for a psycho girlfriend. Extra points for Tank Drop.
Lambda: 7/10 MANLY TEARS. Still, not a bad example of the well-intentioned extremest.
Gawn: 4/10 I liked his death scene, but really why did he go along with Lambda's plan if he disagreed with it?
Hugo: 5/10 Evil Hiro Nakamura hype.
Balgaine: 7/10 ANTI-TANK CHAINSAW WITH ROCKETPACK.
Enil: 2/10 Behold, the power of emo.
Farmel: 5/10 Not bad, but not good either.
Tony: 2/10 Failed at being an entertaining butt monkey.
Kresnik: DNR
Augst: 8/10 I liked Augst. Rejoined the war on the other side to try and bring it to an end, yet he never really came across as a traitor.
The Congressional Knights: 5/10 Generic villainy, but they get points for the synchronized dramatic monologue.
Wild Arms 5:
Nightburn: 1/10 Wah, wah, my girlfriend died of natural causes so I'm going to wipe out humanity.
Persephone: 1/10 Wah, wah, the guy I like doesn't notice me so I'm going to wipe out humanity.
Fereydoon: 2/10 Wah, wah, I'm a soldier so I have to wipe out humanity.
Kartikeya: 5/10 See, at least this guy would conceivably do it.
Elvis: 7/10 It's sad when the comic relief is the best written character. Still, contradictions with his actions being likely to kill his beloved Carol aside, at least he earnestly looked for an alternative to wiping out humanity and came across as the only one actually trying to save his species.
Volsung: -10/10 Fine, 1/10 if I have to give a realistic score, but honestly Volsung's writing is so horrible it fills me with rage. Hates racism so he's going to wipe out both species. That's bad enough, but then they tried to justify it by having him be possessed. But the thing possessing him is the souls of everybody else who failed to overcome racism! Why in the world did the writers thing this was a good idea?!
WA5 Writers: 10/10 Created Volsung.
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Wild Arms 4:
Jeremy: 5/10. Points for persistence, at least.
Scythe: 2/10. Moron, but at least he gave us a good death scene.
Belial: 6/10. Style points.
Lambda: 3/10. I can see what they were going for, just don't think it worked.
Gawn: 3/10. Not really interested in thinking about him right now.
Hugo: 3/10. Honestly, I tend to forget he was even in the game.
Balgaine: 5/10. Chainsaw rocketman. Yes, that's worth five points.
Enil: 3/10. Am I the only one who thought she looked like a stewardess?
Farmel: 5/10. Sexy, has some decent conversations with Lambda/Augst. Passable.
Tony: 4/10. He's good enough for what he was meant to be. YOU DAMN BRATS.
Kresnik: 2/10. Go away.
Augst: 7/10. Most likable villain in the cast.
The Congressional Knights: 2/10. They existed to get killed by Lambda. Fulfilling the role of witless dupe is pretty thankless.
Wild Arms 5:
Nightburn: 3/10. Epic douchebaggery, should've stayed dead. Good theme music, though (not the battle track, I didn't dig that so much).
Persephone: 6/10. Have no real justification for this. She was a bitch, but one with style and awesome music (and that makes it all okay!)
Fereydoon: 4/10. Existed.
Kartikeya: 2/10. Isn't Volsung.
Elvis: 4/10. Really not my kind of character, but I have no reason to dislike him.
Volsung: 1/10. See Lurkerson's rant. There could've been something in a half-breed choosing a side, but WA5's writers had other priorities.
Wild Arms XF:
Edna: 7/10. Horrible excuse for a human being, and supremely good at being a hateable wretch.
Weisheit: 1/10. Why couldn't you just die? Ugh. One-dimensional and supremely annoying.
Charlton: 8/10. Is a total dick, but a pretty convincingly written reactionary.
Rupert: 7/10. Cold-blooded mercenary, but neither he nor the game made any attempt to claim otherwise. That's worth something.
Katrina: 4/10. Meh. Possession doesn't really make for compelling antagonists.
Eisen: 4/10. This was the royal knights leader dude? I liked that he was willing to undermine Charlton's government in small ways that didn't technically violate the responsibilities of his position. Points off for trying to suicide against your party near the end, though. That was just dumb.
Chelle: 4/10. Barely exists, but she was nice to look at I guess?
Piedras: 3/10. Now YOU gonna be the worm-face!
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Still have to finish WA4... may rate a few of the villains I got through anyways.
Wild Arms 5:
Nightburn 6/10 - Pretty much all style points. Well, and apparently not being as disgusted with him as most.
Persephone 6/10 - I... don't know. Just something cool about her.
Fereydoon 2/10 - Conflicted soldier blahblahblah cool fighting style at least.
Kartikeya 5/10 - Fun psychopath. So outlandish it works.
Elvis 7/10 - Not a total dumbass like the rest of the villains!
Volsung 3/10 - Those last couple hours of plot killed a potential 5 or 6 villain. Cool spear/sword at least.
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Wild Arms 4:
Jeremy - 5/10
Scythe - 7/10
Belial - 8/10
Lambda - 3/10
Gawn - 6/10
Hugo - 6/10
Balgaine - 6/10
Enil - 2/10
Farmel - 2/10
Tony - 8/10
Kresnik - 1/10
Augst - 8/10
The Congressional Knights - 1/10
Wild Arms 5:
Nightburn - 5/10
Persephone - 4/10
Fereydoon - 6/10
Kartikeya - 1/10
Elvis - 5/10
Volsung - 1/10
Wild Arms XF:
Edna - 4/10
Weisheit - 4/10
Charlton - 6/10
Rupert - 8/10
Katrina - 9/10
Eisen - Who?/10
Chelle - 2/10
Piedras - 1/10
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Wild Arms 4:
Jeremy - 4/10 - Recurring villain. INERTIA CANCEL.
Scythe - 3/10 - I AM A CRIMSON NOBLE. At least he made Arnaud go emo which was funny. And then the writers reveal he failed at life and was a delusional, regular idiot. Then I facepalm and dock him four points.
Belial - 2/10 - Really... didn't have much? "OMG YOU KILLED THE GUY THAT WAS TRYING TO KILL YOU, HEAR MY ROAR AND FEEL MY WRATH".
Lambda - 6/10 - Eh. "YOU NEED TO BE MATURE" to... the Congressional Knights. Felt too much like a misguided hero either way.
Gawn - DNR - Didn't feel like a bad guy to me. I also hate the thing they went for with him.
Hugo - 2/10 - "Oh hey I have one scene where I can BEAT EVEN TIME ITSELF and then Raquel beats me."
Balgaine - 7/10 - ROCKETS. (Al)Most competent villain.
Enil - 2/10 - Felt more like an obligatory hurdle to mature and develop the heroes than a villain who was meant to make a difference.
Farmel - 2/10 - Shield to protect Lambda blah blah.
Tony - DNR - Comedy relief.
Kresnik - DNR - Not a villain.
Augst - 8/10 - He had a reason, he had the callousness, and ultimately the bastard made the hero go emo.
The Congressional Knights - 1/10 "YOU MUST BECOME MATURE LAMBDA". Really? Are you fucking serious? You can exaggerate, WA4 writers, you can.
(funnily enough I liked the game as a whole, including story)
Wild Arms 5:
Nightburn - 1/10 - The wah wah my girlfriend died assessment of this man pretty much sums up how I feel.
Persephone - 2/10 - Destined to turncoat. Gets a point for POISON MEDICINE.
Fereydoon - 1/10 - Fereywho?
Kartikeya - 6/10 - I CAN'T BE KILLED. Felt a little anti-climactic when he did die, but felt like the only villain who earnestly wanted to see me dead.
Elvis - 7/10 - Amusing. Sympathetic. Augst Mk II.
Volsung - 1/10 - Don't get me started.
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Wild Arms 4:
Jeremy- 2. A completely non-threatening villian who just keeps showing up. Scary.
Scythe- 4.
Belial- 7. A few points for style.
Lambda- 3.
Gawn- 1.
Hugo- 4.
Balgaine- 6. Style points too.
Enil- 5.
Farmel- 3.
Tony- 3. Had to think about this one for a second.
Kresnik- 2. Confusing
Augst- 7.
The Congressional Knights- 3.
Wild Arms 5:
Nightburn- 3. Found him tacky and grating.
Persephone- 2. You aren't fooling me Erim!
Fereydoon- 6. Two points for making Chuck sadface.
Kartikeya- 6. Hatable, but at least if felt like they were going for that. His end just made his existence so very worth it.
Elvis- 8.
Volsung- 0.
Wild Arms XF:
Edna- 6. Decent, but nothing special.
Weisheit- 4.
Charlton- 7
Rupert- 6
Katrina- 4.
Eisen- 2. Too stupid by the end. Yes, please fight me when we are allies and ignore our enemies!
Chelle- 4. I don't even hate Ragnar (Even remotely)!
Piedras- 4.
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I played WA4 more recently than any of the previous three, but its villains failed to stick in my memory in any way shape or form so I'm not voting on them.
Wild ARMs XF, on the other hand, had a much better villain cast than it did heroic cast. Yeah, yeah, not saying much, but seriously, some of these antagonists were actually worthy of the excellent gameplay.
Wild Arms XF:
Edna: 6/10. Algus clause drags her up somewhat, but Edna was too over-the-top to be a true love-to-hate villain.
Weisheit: 3/10. Point for sometimes being an interesting fight. Loses it for overstaying his welcome so much he seemed like a Tales villain.
Charlton: 8/10. Presence, a cool (if under-utilized) power, and a not entirely moronic or unbelievable goal.
Rupert: 8/10. Presence, great lines, and a cool powerset that makes for a genuinely interesting battle in the lategame.
Katrina: 8/10. One of the best tragic possessed antagonists. Could teach Altima and Goddard a thing or twenty about providing a reasonable challenge to endgame Tactics-RPG characters.
Eisen: 4/10. As an ALLY, working within the system to undermine Charlton and co. by playing politics, he was actually really cool. As an antagonist he was a particularly dumbass Knight Templar.
Chelle: 3/10. As a character, doesn't completely suck. However, she gets dragged down by being the personification of one of the most gameplay-annoying villain groups ever. GOD, I was sicking of fighting those schlubs.
Piedras: 2/10. If Chelle failed as a character as well as being part of the Zortoa Kinship, why - HELLO PIEDRAS. Point for cool character design and sand worm.
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WA4
Disclaimor: I liked Brionac a lot as a whole. It was a big change from previous WA games, as well as most RPGs in general that it felt like from the beginning I was going up against a team of super-villains, complete with various superpowers. Just felt very... nonstandard for JRPGs, and the novelty really kept me interested as each new super-villain was thrown at me, thinking to myself 'Oooh, I wonder what power THIS one is going to have!?'. As a result, I tended to like Brionac members based on just how cool their power was more than anything about their personalities (what little of THAT existed for each of them anyway... Augst aside). Still, worked well as a threatening group, even if the individual members ended up a bit more lackluster.
Jeremy - 5. Power is eh (he's just good with weaponry, right? I hardly remember except for his 'infected by evil power' form). But he's the first one you come up against and he sets the standard for other Brionac members to be weighed against. Good presentation in that sense. He didn't really need to come back, but it worked for his style anyway, unlike a lot of recurring villain types.
Scythe - 6. He and Belial worked well together as a creepy villain couple, and being the second batch of villains you fight (not to mention being relatively threatening and WA2 shout-out hype) they really worked to set the stage for some amazing fights. When you find out the actual source of Scythe's powers, it adds some interesting depth to character that I really wasn't expecting, and somehow managed to make the couple even creepier.
Belial - 9. Seemed like another WA shout-out, I still hypothesize that she's some kind of left over Metal Demon or Homunculus. Fanwank aside, she was really stylish and truly threatening. Really got me excited about future Brionac challenges.
Lambda - 6. Overall, I liked his execution as leader of the team of super-villains (even though it was easier to think of him as a hero...). I also liked his power and how he used it. However, I can't rank him higher because by the time he really starts being more directly involved with the PCs, the whole 'what's the next superpower' thing was losing its novelty.
Gawn - 7. He reminds me entirely too much of my dad, so yeah, I instantly liked him and honestly felt betrayed when he turned out to be Lambda's buttbuddy. I don't know if I can defend this score objectively.
Hugo - 8. No, he doesn't deserve this score in a vacuum, but for what he was, and how he fit into the story's pacing, and for having a freakin' cool power/fight scene, he was awesome and stylish. You fight him shortly after the awesome Scythe/Belial duo and his power is extremely memorable, and it really kept up the momentum for interesting supervillainy even though his actual character worth was... barely there? He's got style but no real personality, so I can't rate him higher despite liking him more than this.
Balgaine - 6. Similar to Hugo, with an even more awesome weapon, but he comes in too late to make as much of an impression. Still really stylish. Note that in a vacuum (without taking Brionac's overall synergy into account), all of these scores would be lower by about 3-4 points. But I liked their team dynamic and think it deserves some credit.
Enil - 5. The team is losing its momentum by her appearance (partially due to losing most of its members and that really hurts the dynamic...). Gets these points for having a cool power (in plot scenes, though a fail gimmick in-game) and a cool hat.
Farmel - 5.5 because she was mostly just there, but I liked her more than Jeremy and Enil.
Tony - 1. Do not want. It's annoying that he was the first villain in the game, because I almost stopped playing because I hated his character so much.
Kresnik - 5. Deserves lower, but emo is funny sometimes.
Augst - 9. Yes. Genuinely entertaining to watch every time he was on screen. I kept wondering what his crazy superpower was going to be. Not having one ended up being the coolest part.
The Congressional Knights - 4. Overall, I like the evil council type, but they felt pretty extraneous when we had 12 villains with faces already... Xenogears did it better and SEELE did it first.
Fiore and Asia: 2. The low point of Brionac. Extraneous. Not even really part of Brionac, which angered me for some reason. Also, amaloli fetish puppets created by an invisible pedophile. Conceptual failure to the extreme. Nothing they could have done would have really helped. Apparently they fail so hard that Dune wiped them from his memory.
Hauser: 4. Another really major one that Dune forgot... I'm kind of curious how. Anyways, this is something that really -didn't- need to be treated as a plot twist... It's about as obvious as it can possibly be to the viewer that Hauser is Luke's father, but they tried to make a big deal out of it anyway... Lame and cliche, but not offensive enough to make me rate him lower, I suppose.
Wild Arms 5:
WA5 does not have the same 'team of villains' presence that WA1-4 had. It really suffers for it.
Nightburn - 5. Meh.
Persephone - 5. Meh. Boobs.
Fereydoon - 3. He really kind of offended me with his existence.
Kartikeya - 7. Psycho is good enough for this.
Elvis - 7. Awesome, it's been covered.
Volsung - 4. Not as offensive as Fereydoon, I suppose.
Ice Queen Avril - 8. High point of the game. After the fight with her, the rest of the villain cast starts failing it up harder...
Wild Arms XF:
Not finished, but ranking based on partial playtime anyway. XF brings back that awesome 'team of villains' presence that makes the WA series work at all.
Edna - 9. It's been said, but I think she fits the Algus clause better than Algus.
Weisheit - 6. Apparently (s)he fails it up later on, but overall sufficiently creepy.
Charlton - 9. Also awesome. Style alone could get him this far. Having something resembling competence helps, too.
Rupert - 8. Does his mercenary thing well. Points for not being a complete idiot about Clarissa.
Katrina - Hm. Spoiler. Oh well. Can't vote.
Eisen - I like him as an ally.
Chelle - Can't really vote here either.
Piedras - Or here.
So far I like XF's story, and from what I've read from other people's comments, the villain cast (mostly) holds up throughout. Need to get back to it.
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Wild Arms 4:
Jeremy- 4/10. Eh, kinda a bum.
Scythe- 6/10. Funny ending, but sort of a pretentious snot leading up to that.
Belial- 7/10. Scary and hell from both a plot and gameplay standpoint.
Lambda- 5/10. Coulda been better, but not bad.
Gawn- 8/10. FALCON MISSILE PUUNNNCCHHH!
Hugo- 7/10. This is also true of Belial, but I just liked how the party dealt with him.
Balgaine- 6/10.
Enil- 4/10.
Farmel- 3/10. Bloody whore.
Tony- 4/10.
Kresnik- 4/10.
Augst- 7/10.
The Congressional Knights- ... hum. 0/10. I have some reservations about WA4's story relative to what they could have done with it. The Knights represent that in such a way that I think the game is worse for them existing.
Wild Arms 5:
Nightburn- 6/10.
Persephone- 5/10.
Fereydoon- 7/10. Execution was sorely lacking, but I like this sort of character. 'sides, the scene between him and Cap'n Bart made me laugh.
Kartikeya- 4/10.
Elvis- 5/10. I dunno, felt wasted.
Volsung- 3/10.
Wild Arms XF:
Edna- 6/10. Well, she fails hilariously. I'm not sure how to represent this as a score, since she's also a terrible villain, so... eh, slightly above average.
Weisheit- 5/10. I like the concept, and the early scenes were good, and s/he worked in a few later scenes... but also really, really failed in some later scenes. So, not thinking.
Charlton- 8/10.
Rupert- 7/10.
Katrina- Hum. I feel like I should score on three axis here (Katrina as a character, the Clysmian as a character, and how the story between them played out) and I'm not sure where to balance it. Katrina is kinda one dimensional and non-villainous, the Clysmian isn't a character so much as a very nasty, very threatening force of nature, but I love how the plot plays out.
So... 9/10. I'll weight to the good stuff.
Eisen- 4/10. Worked early, but so stupid.
Chelle- 4/10. The flirting between her and Ragnar was the best part of either character, so points there I guess.
Piedras- 5/10. Eh, what can I say, Elfboy made a good joke once and I find him funny enough to not fail now.
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Wild Arms 4:
Jeremy - 4 Is there and not terrible
Scythe - 6 I thought his concept was unique, loses points to dieing to an airplane
Belial - 8 Is twisted and awesome
Lambda - 7 was decent as a leader
Gawn - DNR, really helped the team more then hindered them, didn't really contribute much in setting the world up for DOOM other then acting as a roadblock in the airport.
Hugo - 6 Awesome cutscene, not much else
Balgaine - 6 ANTI TANK CHAINSAW
Enil - 4 Cool power, fail battle
Farmel - 5 is there for Lambda and fanservice
Tony - 3 is there, not much else
Kresnik - DNR
Augst - 8 is cool
The Congressional Knights - 2, kind of saw it coming, rather anticlimatic
Wild Arms 5:
Nightburn - 1 is stupid, looks like he's about to kill Dean and then...doesn't? yeah, his sudden turn around made no sense to me.
Persephone - 2 just as stupid as Nightburn, with a terrible reason to fight to boot, but has boobs
Fereydoon - 1 PLEASE DIE IN A DITCH YOU TERRIBLE EXCUSE FOR ANYTHING
Kartikeya - 4 Only decent Villain in the whole WA5 cast, and then kills himself for some reason that doesn't make a whole lot of sense
Elvis - DNR, wasn't really that villainy and more there for comic relief
Volsung - 1 PILE OF FAIL
WA5 Writers: 10/10 Created WA5's Cast
seconding Lurker's notion only with a slight fix
Wild Arms XF:
Edna - 9 Is awesome, is genuinely out there only for herself, I loved hating her
Weisheit - 6 was cool, loses points for NOT DIEING
Charlton - 8 Is badass, the way he dies is awesome
Rupert - 6 shows signs of actual intelligence, is generally cool, but loses points for failing in a cutscene fight horribly then not in the next and kind of going back and forth that way
Katrina - 8 Is neat and stuff
Eisen - 1 Fails at everything
Chelle - 6 Was cool, lost 3 points for "RAGNAR BLITZ LEBRETT" spam, seriously, just use his first name or something for once.
Piedras - 3 Worm, not much else
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Wild Arms 4:
Jeremy - 6. Okay. Most of Brionac could've benefitted from more screentime, or some culling, depending on who. Jeremy, on the other hand, gets points for tenacity, and bribing me with a combination of rapid fire and artillery. (And to clarify for Djinn, his power is basically the ability to say "Fuck You" to Newton's third law, letting him use weaponry, that by all means should rip his arms out of his sockets with the recoil, without trouble at all)
Scythe - 6. PLANE DEATH was worth a laugh, and he had a neat power. His real use, though, was foreshadowing for...
Belial - 8. Psycho with a very legitimate reason for wanting to kill the heroes. Psycho with awesome power, and awesome applications for it. Doesn't hurt that she was treated like a final-boss-level threat, and was generally awesome.
Lambda -7. Standard power that became awesome when applied to combat the way it was, though I was curious about the whole Claimh Solais stuff that he used. Smart enough to delegate his plans to Augst instead of himself, and he gets bonus points for killing the Congressional Knights. Also amused at how his Well-Intentioned Extremist ways had gone to the extent of throwing one of his officers in Illsveil for attempting to realize Power Perversion Potential.
Gawn - DNR. Has his awesomeness, but is not a villain.
Hugo - 5. A badass who, regrettably, had little personality, but an awesome power. Deserved more screentime, though he gets points for "fuck it, I quit."
Balgaine - 5. Was just there, but he was a badass for the few moments where he showed up. Nidhogg being just as effective in battle as it was on the cutscene, at that. Could have done to be expanded on a bit.
Enil - 4. Was honestly just there. Not memorable at all, outside of how outright bloody ANNOYING Etremenanki was, and that was the dungeon, not her.
Farmel - 4. It makes sense that, given her abilities, she mainly just hangs around Lambda and intercepts attacks. But her design annoys me, and her fight could have honestly been better.
Tony - 6. In that setting, this is probably as comic relief as you can get. Works just on how truly pathetic he is.
Kresnik - DNR. Pisses people off due to existential angst (which I can honestly understand), but not a villain.
Augst - 8. Genre-savviness that was suitably awesome, and the powers of logic and common sense; he did originally devise a plan to have the rest of the members gang up on the PCs and take them out then and there. Was generally enjoyable. Honestly missed him when he died. Too bad he was shut down by...
The Congressional Knights - 1. Honestly. Writing aside, they were your typical evil oligarchy. It was nice that they did have the typical amount of combat ability any modern ruler would have, though; none. They also killed any chances for certain others to have more screentime.
Fiore/Asia - 2. There, and honestly both annoying and lacking anything even RESEMBLING a quirk in battle. Culling material alongside Enil.
Wild Arms 5:
Nightburn - 4/10. On the one end, 70s Action Hero. On the other end, everything else. Needed a combat gimmick.
Persephone - 4/10. Was going to be 3/10 out of sheer hatred for the design, which screamed "OMG BOOBS" and had a stupid-looking gun, until I was reminded of the medicine incident. That degree of callousness/jackass genie-ism is worth an extra point. Needed a combat gimmick.
Fereydoon - 6/10. Honestly, probably my favorite of the Sentinels, though Elvis is ranked higher overall. Fan of the character type, and loved the armor/weapon. Loses a point for somehow getting owned by Chuck. Needed a combat gimmick.
Kartikeya - 4/10. Was there, ate babies, wanted to eat the babies that Volsung was eating. Horrible theme music, though. Needed a combat gimmick.
Elvis - 7/10. Best villain in the game easily, hands down. And he's the comic relief. Needed a more noticeable combat gimmick.
Volsung - 2/10. His design was awesome, particularly Gram-Zamber. The rest of it, though...ugh. I think the true depth of his fail has already been expressed; "POSSESSED BY THE SOULS OF PEOPLE WHO FAILED TO OVERCOME RACISM". A pity, that. Defines "waste of plot potential." Also, could have done to have an AI that could actually take advantage of the Double Action move in his fight to make him distinctive.
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Wild Arms 4:
Jeremy- 7.5/10- For some reason I loved Jeremy as a random psycho killer. A persistent one at that. He didn't seem to fit the Brionac mold, but he worked.
Scythe- 3/10- Emo vampire
Belial- 8/10- She was a super powered demon who just didn't care about shit other than her boyfriend. When he died, she decides to create and destroy a world for revenge. Loses some points for not finding a way to kill some kids despite her dimension creating ability.
Lambda- 5/10- Never got too into Lambda... kind of a bitch
Gawn- 7.5/10- Likeable enough that I was annoyed when he turned out to be bad.
Hugo- 7/10- Badass, just not Jeremy level.
Balgaine- 6/10- Less badass than Hugo
Enil- 4/10- Meh, dull
Farmel- 4/10- Was there, did her job.
Tony- 2/10- Crap
Kresnik- 2/10- Crap
Augst- 8/10- Awesome, wish his fight was tougher.
The Congressional Knights- Huh... how do I not remember these guys?
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Brionac needed no more screen time. They want to kill you and you try to kill them right back. What the fuck else motivation do you need?
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Wild Arms 4:
Jeremy: 4/10. I don't really have too much to say about Jeremy. He mainly exists as a sympathising factor for the Brionac leadership, because they realise he is an incompetent loose cannon and punish him for it. His reappearance, though, is random and unsatisfying.
Scythe: 7/10. His exit is brilliant. The game raises him up and up and up and up only for WHAT THE HELL AM I SUPPOSED TO- Yeah, I love it. Certainly good enough for a decent score.
Belial: 6/10. Like Scythe, the writing that surrounds her arc is just wonderful. And yeah, she kinda sets the stage for the type of stuff you expect from Brionac.
Lambda: 6/10. Probably the score that requires the most thought. Lambda worked pretty effectiely as a generally highly sympathetic villain, but I could have been sold a bit better on his overreaction of "we need humans to evolve so that we won't be so weak!" On the other hand, an effective, believable leader... eh.
Gawn: 7/10. Gawn very rarely failed to bring a smile to my face. Funny guy, and his turn as a villain made sense, although it wasn't anything stellar writing-wise.
Hugo: 6/10. Likable chap for his minimal screentime. Just... exudes competence and being reasonable.
Balgaine: 5/10. Objectively deserves a below average score, but his design is brilliant. ROCKETMAN WITH ANTI-TANK CHAINSAW.
Enil: 2/10. Fails on levels besides just combat. Oh well.
Farmel: 5/10. No strong opinion here. Gains a point for holy crap a normal non-creepy relationship in a villain cast! Loses it for design.
Tony: 8/10. HE NEEDS WAR. And... yeah. Tony is the recurring joke villain in a dark game. His very existence serves to depress as much as it does to entertain, and he's very effective at both.
Kresnik: 1/10. Emo wanker. He wants nothing more than his sister to be happy, and what would make his sister happy is him being alive and them being together, but he is too stupid and emo to get it. Don't get me wrong, people like him exist in real life (and fail), but he's still a terrible person and his being terrible doesn't really advance the plot in any way, so he just sucks. He'd be even worse if the game played up his ANIME RIVALRY with Jude like the second opening video implies it would. That video sucks.
Augst: 7/10. Highly amusing, and the scene where you meet him in the Ciel flashback/memory scene rounds him out as a character.
The Congressional Knights: ... 6/10. They are horrible, horrible villains. But the game needed horrible villains there to make a point and to allow Brionac to lose while preserving the competence and sympathy of Augst and Lambda. So... sure, points for that.
Hauser: 2/10. TRUE PEACE IS BUILT ON THE CORPSES OF MEN and KINDNESS CHANGES NOTHING are indeed great lines, if short of the Xorn tier. Sadly as a serious character, blech. Lambda without the convincing development for how he got there. THEY KILLED HIS PUPPY? okay
Wild Arms 5:
Nightburn: 7/10. Is Hank Scorpio, and had generally good scenes with Duo and Persephone. Style, and enough substance to work. Sure.
Persephone: 5/10. Nightburn but without the style, and the lovesick bit is kinda bleh. NIGHTBURN IS THE ONLY HUMAN MORE POWERFUL THAN ME whatever, woman
Fereydoon: 6/10. He's cool. He's... actually more sympathetic than Chuck in their love triangle? Wow. His shift from kind young man with his grandmother to your masked killer was also effective.
Kartikeya: I dunno. His big scene is probably the most effective single scene in RPGs since Suikoden 5, that I've seen anyway. On the other hand he is unredeemably horrible, a baby-eater to the tenth degree. I am tempted to look up what score I gave Luca and add 1 or something. Sadly I don't remember what that is and I am lazy, so I will give him the ultimate lazy score of <b>5/10</b>.
Elvis: 6/10. Pretty amusing, but not up to the level of previous WA funny men.
Volsung: 1/10. Oh fuck off.
Wild Arms XF:
Edna: 7/10. Stupid, stupid, stupid, and you hate her a lot. But seeing what ways she can be stupid never failed to be entertaining.
Weisheit: 6/10. I agree that his last bit was unnecessary, and this hurts his score a good deal. However, beyond that, the setup is just pretty nifty. Convincingly painted as a genius manipulator (the bit where he toys with the party in C2 drives it home), but lacks the common sense to deal with the PCs when he's in sight of his goal. This would be an 8/10 if the final problem had been a trap triggered by his death instead of LOL I'M BACK GUYS, but whatever. "Tales villain" indeed, but still less stupid than Sync's revival.
Charlton: 9/10. Just used well. Charlton's ideology is ultimately sympathetic in its own way, even if wrong-headed. He's a very cool and collected opponent who gives good speeches, and smart enough that he really should have won (ENDA!!!). Has some very memorable and stylish scenes, such as the one before his last fight, and is well VAed and his underplayed emotions work well. So yeah.
Rupert: 7/10. Effective scumbag. I'd say he hangs around too long, but his exit is just brilliant. Poor guy. (Well not really because he's a freaking scumbag.)
Katrina: 8/10. I like possession cases that are done well. This one certainly is. An unexpected path for the development of a villain, but the end result is extremely effective, taking a bizarre psychological quirk and making it the foundation of an extremely nasty desire for something disastrous. It's not even "evil" and it's very unique. Plus style/music/etc., but I could have been saying the latter for most of these guys.
Eisen: 4/10. All these points for his scenes with Levin, which were actually pretty effective. Well, that and his ability to block the villains without opposing them. Just ugh to the stunt he pulls in Chapter 4. No. No, no, no.
Chelle: 3/10. Nasty opponent but I don't really give points for that. Nor am I inclined to give points for the jokes.
Piedras: 2/10. I WILL BUILD MY KINGDOM ON YOUR CORPSES. His ideology is painfully stupid.
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As a warning, I did not like Brionac very much.
Wild Arms 4:
Jeremy: 4/10 - GRR I'LL GET YOU
Scythe: 2/10 uh... yeah, whatever.
Belial: 2/10 Could have been more interesting? I dunno.
Lambda: 3/10 ...really didn't find him effective.
Gawn 1/10 - I AM AN ADULT AND YOU ARE CHILDREN I MUST LAMENT MYSELF
Hugo - 3/10 TIME COMPRESSION
Balgaine - 2/10 the quiet one
Enil - uhh... which one was she again? The shadow one? Yeah, whatever. 1/10
Farmel: I WILL DO WHATEVER I CAN FOR YOU LAMBDA 2/10
Tony: 4/10 Made me laugh once or twice.
Kresnik: 2/10 Generic.
Augst: Eh, 5/10
The Congressional Knights: DNR, fuck them
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Man, WA4's villainy admittedly had some style, just why couldn't all the evil plans in the game be something other than batshit insane? I hold this most against Lambda, I suppose. If I'd been in charge of writing the WA4 villainous motivations, I'd probably have played the "echoes of the old war" angle harder - fits with Jeremy's comments about the war not really being over that are then dropped. Jude & Yulie are both sorta detritus from the Global Union anyway, and a policy of hunting down these crazy old bioweapons so that the world can return to peace would be totally understandable. (Though... the timing on Yulie's plot always kinda confused me. It was a Global Union facility? But she was there only 5 years ago or so, and the war was over by then, right? But if it was, and the facility was reopened by the Knights... why'd they close it? Then change their mind and go off to collect her again? Meh, RPG timing.)
Wild Arms 4:
Jeremy - 5/10 Decent foil. Mutated return was strictly a plot device.
Scythe - 8/10 Another amusing pathetic character. All that build-up and he's kinda a lamer. I'm fine with that.
Belial - 7/10 Hey, you're killing people. Others may have loved said people, and will be pissed when you do this. I think this needs to be done more - too many faceless, loved ones-less baddies out there.
Lambda - 3/10 Why he gets points at all: Realizing that the Knights are lamers and need to die, generally impressed at his devotion to Brionac and (presumably) democratic ideals "before."
Why he fails it up: Wait, a passing comment from the Congressional Knights about humanity being too primitive to survive and needing to evolve... people whom you have correctly figured out are insane... causes you to decide that humanity needs to evolve past war... by starting a global catastrophe?! That the way to stop war is to blow the world up?! FAAAAAAAAAAAAAIL. For a villain who's clearly supposed to be a sympathetic, "tragic ideal vision" kind of guy, this is just too stupid. This is dumber than Krelian's "so therefore there is no God so therefore I will create God with my own hands and blow shit up." Assuming he did buy the line about humanity needing to evolve hook, line, and sinker... couldn't he have done so in a way that vaguely made sense?
Gawn - 5/10 Honestly don't hate him, but Hauser being not really Hauser kinda threw away the only interesting thing in his plot, his relationship to his old rival. He claims he was friends, or wanted to be... and.... uh yeah we don't find out anything more.
Hugo - 6/10 Henchman, worked.
Balgaine - 5/10 - Henchman, kinda ridiculous.
Enil - 5/10 - Henchman.
Farmel - 4/10 - Henchman. Had more screentime than the above 3 yet didn't do anything with it, so docked a point.
Tony - 7/10 - Another fun, persistent rival. Tony also was the "brutish soldiers blow shit up" side of the plot for WA4 to thematically work, so very much a needed part of the story.
Kresnik - DNR? 5/10 if ranked I guess. Certainly much less of a villain than Hauser, never does anything evil, never really effectively opposes the party. The charitable interpretation of Kresnik is that his depression is mostly a side-effect of being a drug addict, and I liked his plot in so far as it was him overcoming his issues to accomplish something anyway. On the downside, him apparently voluntarily falling to his doom, and the stupid hint he may have survived anyway in the ending need to go die.
Augst - 6/10 Amusing in his failed humor. Volunteering for the stupid test-some-nanomachine plan was a blatant excuse for a boss fight that didn't make tons of sense, but whatever.
The Congressional Knights - 5/10 - They are docked fewer points for their stupid insane plan due to WA4 not elevating it to the big problem. Agree with DHE that they also provide a needed plot device to explain why Brionac didn't all surround Our Heroes and recapture Yulie immediately. As people for Brionac to bounce off of, they're fine, but also with a strong scent of JAPAN. Look, Japan, believe it or not but most democracies are not secretly controlled by the same 6 power-hungry people, even if yours kind of was for awhile.
Fiore & Asia: 2/10 - The weak link of Brionac indeed.
Hauser - 2/10 - TRUE PEACE IS BUILT ON A PILE OF CORPSES what? Okay, they do say that Hauser died / changed that day when he stopped the reactor, buuuuuut they want to have their cake and eat it too, as he's clearly supposed to be "Hauser" at other times as well. Anyway, whatever Hauser is now, he apparently thinks that Lambda's idea is cool and is willing to go Gene Driver up the Divine Weapon to achieve true peace, so fail. Hauser also loses points for throwing away a more interesting point WA4 lightly touched on, that the difference between Class A war criminals and war heroes is who won. Making this insane not-really-Hauser, and not really raising the issue again by having most of Illsveil Prison be mutated monsters rather than imprisoned Global Union types, throws the good plot away.
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Hauser's best moment is making Jude have a complete mental breakdown and turning him in to a mountain hermit, I think.
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Wild Arms 4:
Jeremy - 3 - Rar I am persistent. Yeah...not much. Much better after his 2nd fight...coming back didn't do much.
Scythe - 5 - I find a lot of the villains in WA4 were too, too, short-lived. Scythe has a advantage in at least being kind of funny and initially threatening.
Belial - 4 - Threatening...but I really don't find her to be a good villain - she would have murdered anyone who killed Scythe, not just the party. Bleh, I find her...a little overrated in villainness...now, strong, yes, but...
Lambda - 5 - Kind of retarded near the end, but overall ok to start.
Gawn - 2 - I...yeah. Don't mind him as a character, but as a villain...he's really shitty.
Hugo - 5 - Belial, but...seemed overall more villainy?
Balgaine - 5 - Kind of like Scythe, many cool points.
Enil - 2 - EVIL IN YOUR HEART!!! If there's ever a sequel, she can be the main villain!
Farmel - 1 - Eh...bleh. Slept with Lambda is about it.
Tony - 5 - At least dedicated to his job, which was...different. He was just someone who couldn't let go. Still...not an amazing villain.
Kresnik - N/A - Not villain.
Augst - 1 - Not...a great villain.
The Congressional Knights - 3 - Just not present enough.
Wild Arms 5:
Nightburn - 5 - His visage in Dean's mind and then turn were villainous. On the other hand, that's only half the game he was a villain, so...
Persephone - 1 -
Fereydoon - 1 -
Kartikeya - 8 - All the non-Kartikeya Sentinels didn't feel like villains in the least. Kartikeya has the awesome Greg background and final fight. He IS threatening.
Elvis - 1 -
Volsung - N/A - IT IS EVIL SPIRITS THAT ARE VILLAINS NOT HIM
Wild Arms XF:
Edna - 7 - Felt villainous towards everyone. The best villains in this series are in XF, so be prepared for decent scores now!
Weisheit - 9 - Excellent. He felt really threatening, especially, as a mastermind to everything. On the other hand, his coming back I felt worked well - he was supposed to be hard to kill, and it made his end that much more...anticlimatic. Just...think there could be more? I'm trying to think of what it could have done better.
Charlton - 9 - Yeah, been said.
Rupert - 4 - Eh, thief. Not much.
Katrina - N/A - I...don't see her as much of a villain, do I? I don't remember the plot around her much - I know she got possessed at the end. Eh.
Eisen - N/A - Not much of a villain.
Chelle - 5 - Nevermind the decent scores!
Piedras - 4 - Ditto.
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I'm updating this over the weekend. Vote now!
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Wild Arms 4:
Jeremy: 6/10. worked well enough for what he was, I guess; just what he was wasn't a lot.
Scythe: 6/10. Meh with a point for an awesome death.
Belial: 4/10. Felt tacted on and forced, honestly, just to make the game longer for an extra dungeon and boss fight.
Lambda: 7/10. Solid enough.
Gawn: 7.5/10. Worked well from the double agent thing, and gets half a point for FALCON MISSILE PUNCH!
Hugo: 4/10. The coolest part about him...is something that Raquel gets full credit for, whoops!
Balgaine: 4.5/10. Bland, but gets half a point for ANTI TANK CHAINSAW.
Enil: 3/10. She had...a character...at all? I honestly don't remember! She felt like "Yet another member of Brionac who is just there for a gimmick boss fight."
Farmel: 5/10. I understand what they were trying for, but felt nothing for her.
Tony: 7/10. Tony.
Kresnik: 2/10. Fail.
Augst: 5/10. Apathy.
The Congressional Knights: 6/10. Gets a point for being major pricks and getting completely owned by Lambda later, as exactly what you want.
Hauser: 2/10. Uh, yeah, felt forced and sucked at what he did.
Wild Arms 5:
Nightburn: 7/10. Above average, with a point for extra cheese.
Persephone: 5/10. "Token Female Of the Crew of 4" is what she felt like, though at least she wasn't offensive.
Fereydoon: 8/10. Actually thought he was a well done anti-villain.
Kartikeya: 4/10. Kefka Blight. He's genuinely threatening, I guess, but fuck if he doesn't fail as a character in all ways, lacking Luca Blight's plot-device excuse reason for existing (if that makes sense), or Kefka's general zaniness (as well as doing like nothing better than Kefka, and Kefka's a freaking SNES villain...)
Elvis: 6/10. Silly, but unfortunately, his antics is all he has...though, I do give a nod for the fact that they make your fights with him genuinely consistent with his personality; far more believable that he was just going over the top "WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO KAROL? YOU WILL PAY!" response followed by a "Fine! Prove you can be independent!" thing deserves a nod since it wasn't forcing a "I know we have nothing against each other, but I must fight, CAUSE I PROMISED!" idiocy that tehse kinds of characters always fall into (and Fereydoon already did that, except in his case, a good aprt of Fereydoon's character is the unwavering loyalty factor...)
Volsung: 1/10. Fail. An interesting concept but egads was it pulled off horribly. You're suppose to sympathize with him...based on the last like hour of his screen time? His motives are suppose to be understandable...except they're 100% at the fault of fucking Zeromus, who had literally no reason to exist in this game, and...ugh. One of the best examples of wasted potential, and atrocious writing.
Wild Arms XF:
Edna: 7/10. I hate her...but that's sort of the point, so yeah, worked for what she was.
Weisheit: 5/10. Would be higher if he died a chapter earlier, rather than pulling a bullshit "but I'm not dead yet!" nonsense, so I'm docking a point.
Charlton: 6/10. Gets a point for being a genuinely intelligent and rational villain, but the character just isn't there, I felt.
Rupert: 7.5/10. An effective scoundrel. The game doesn't even try to play him up as having any redeeming qualities, and his general attitude was a nice contrast to all the upright proper nobles he was with.
Katrina: 8/10. Yeah, playing the whole "Can't feel fear" thing into an actual villain trait and making it work was actually kind of neat, and she certainly felt rather creepy at times. See, Volsung, you CAN get possessed and STILL be effective! Possession isn't always an excuse to fail, and Katrina proves it.
Eisen: 3/10. Lawful stupid. I just wanted to punch him several times.
Chelle: 4/10. She annoyed me pretty much every time she appeared; oh look, Ragnar's rival! Uh, yeah, whatever, we don't need the same fucking scene every time you appear between the two.
Piedras: 3/10. Felt absolutely pointless; I seriously don't know why they didn't just say "Chelle is the leader", but forced this guy in and just made Chelle his bitch. It was like he was there to be a pure plot device and...ugh.
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Jeremy- 2/10
Scythe- 5/10
Belial- 7/10
Lambda- 2/10
Gawn- 1/10
Balgaine- 8/10
Enil- ??
Farmel- 1/10
Tony- 8/10
Kresnik- 3/10
Augst- 5/10
The Congressional Knights- 5/10
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Updating tomorrow some time! Get to it!
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Okay it's closed! Results coming in 1 to 24 hours depending on how fast I get through these.
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Update should be up by tomorrow night with luck, personal crap happened.
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Sorry about the log delay, life happened. Thanks to Bardiche for helping this along. Results!
Jeremy: 4.24, 19 rankers.
Scythe: 4.79, 19 rankers.
Belial: 6.26, 19 rankers.
Lambda: 4.42, 18 rankers.
Gawn: 3.37, 16 rankers. (3 DNR)
Hugo: 4.68, 17 rankers.
Balgaine: 4.97, 17 rankers. (1 DNR)
Enil: 2.68, 16 rankers. (1 DNR)
Farmel: 3.71, 19 rankers.
Tony: 4.32, 18 rankers. (1 DNR)
Kresnik: 1.47, 13 rankers. (6 DNR)
Augst: 6.47, 19 rankers.
Congressional Knights: 2.47, 16 rankers. (2 DNR)
Nightburn: 4.07, 15 rankers.
Persephone: 3.80, 15 rankers.
Fereydoon: 4.00, 15 rankers.
Kartikeya: 4.73, 15 rankers.
Elvis: 5.64, 14 rankers. (1 DNR)
Volsung: 1.64, 14 rankers. (1 DNR)
Edna: 6.82, 11 rankers.
Weisheit: 4.91, 11 rankers.
Charlton: 7.82, 11 rankers.
Rupert: 6.86, 11 rankers.
Katrina: 7.22, 9 rankers. (1 DNR)
Eisen: 3.25, 8 rankers. (1 DNR)
Chelle: 4.20, 10 rankers.
Piedras: 2.90, 10 rankers.
More coming in the next post!
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Top ten highest ranked villains:
1. Delita(FFT): 9.04, 12 rankers. (3 DNR)
2. Irving Vold Valeria(WA2): 9.00, 16 rankers.
3. Dycedarg(FFT): 7.86, 15 rankers.
4. Bangaa(FFTA2): 7.66, 3 rankers.
5. Jecht(FFX): 7.30, 15 rankers. (3 DNR)
6. Katrina: 7.22, 9 rankers. (1 DNR)
7. Reno(FF7): 7.21, 21 rankers.
8. Liz: 7.04, 12 rankers.
9. Rufus(FF7): 6.97, 21 rankers.
10. Algus(FFT): 6.90, 15 rankers.
Top ten lowest ranked villains
1. Kresnik: 1.47, 13 rankers. (6 DNR)
2. Volsung: 1.64, 14 rankers. (1 DNR)
3. Zemus/Zeromus(FF4): 1.88, 17 rankers.
4. Necron(FF9): 2.13, 22 rankers.
5. Adel(FF8): 2.33, 18 rankers. (1 DNR)
6. Mewt(FFTA): 2.44, 9 rankers.
7. Congressional Knights: 2.47, 16 rankers. (2 DNR)
8t. Milon(FF4): 2.60, 15 rankers (3 DNRs)
8t. Lani(FF9): 2.60, 20 rankers. (2 DNR)
10. Judecca(WA2): 2.64, 17 rankers.
The Generic Dudes:
Baigan: DNR (2.2, 10 voters.)
Jenova: DNR (3.00, 12 rankers.)
Edea: DNR (4.8, 10 rankers.)
Beatrix: DNR (5.83, 10 rankers.)
Golagros: DNR (4.5, 6 rankers.)
Bart: DNR (3.2, 5 rankers.)
Celia: DNR (4.00, 7 rankers.)
Lede: DNR. (4.28, 7 rankers.)
High Priest Funeral: DNR (3.66, 6 rankers.)
Kletian: DNR (3.42, 7 rankers.)
Cid: DNR. (4.00, 3 rankers.)
Neukhia: DNR. (4.00, 2 rankers.)
Luceid: DNR. (2.25, 12 rankers.)
BARF!:
Kain(1.0, 1 vote)
Tunnel Armor(10, 1 vote)
Yuffie(4.0, 1 vote)
The Occuria(5.33, 3 votes)
Dycedarg's Elder Brother(10.00, 1 vote.)
Professor Daravon(10.00, 1 vote.)
Marche(10.00, 1 vote.)
Fiore and Asia: (2.00, 3 votes.)
Hauser: (2.50, 4 votes.)
WA5 Writers: (10.00, 2 votes.)
Ice Queen Avril: (8.00, 1 vote.)
Games ranked:
FF1, FF2, FF3, FF4, FF5, FF6, FF7, FF8, FF9, FF10, FF12, FFT, FFTA, FFTA2, WA1, WA2, WA3, WA4, WA5, WA:XF
Well, that's the end of the WA series. It produced both highs(Irving) and dreadful lows(Kresnik, Volsung). With my inner fanboy pleased by this turn of events, let's move along to another old RPG series, this one with it's roots on the SNES: Lufia! Rank each Sinistral from the game in question only. Yes, this is kind of an off week and a short one. Life happens.
Lufia 1:
Nazeby
Gades
Amon
Erim
Daos
Lufia 2:
Gades
Idura
Amon
Erim
Daos
Lufia 3:
Gades
Amon
Erim
Daos
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Lufia 1:
Nazeby: 2/10. Shows up, gets hit, dies.
Gades: 3/10. A few points for style and lapsing into caveman speak in Sheran.
Amon: 4/10. Cool armor design.
Erim: 6/10. I consider Lufia part of her and this raises her on up to a respectable score. Lufia wasn't a bad character at all.
Daos: 2.5/10. Eh. Bad guy.
Lufia 2:
Gades: 4/10. Comes across as more of a threat and more of an asshole.
Idura: 6/10. Has some style and tries his best. Then again, when your best doesn't work on Dekar...<_<
Amon: 3/10. Threat-y. Sinistrals have always been good at wiping out unvisited villages.
Erim: 8/10. Again, Iris is Erim and vice versa. Iris' role throughout the game, while easy enough to guess, kept things going and laid the seeds for the birth of Lufia in the future.
Daos: 4/10. HOOCHES.
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Disclaimer: Worthless villain cast is worthless.
Lufia 1:
Nazeby - DNR (1/10). Scrub who gets something like one scene total.
Gades - He. Is. EVIL. 1/10, NEXT.
Amon - Did nothing worth noting. 1/10.
Erim - Uninteresting. 1/10.
Daos - Did nothing worth noting. 1/10
Lufia 2:
Gades - Even less personality than the first time around. WINNAR. 1/10
Idura - Exists to be owned by Dekar. 1/10
Amon - Uninteresting. 1/10.
Erim - ...Yeah I'm not even going to pretend that what they did here was worthwhile. 1/10
Daos - Uninteresting. 1/10
Lufia 3:
Gades - Frue destruction. Also completely lame. 1/10.
Amon - Meh. 1/10.
Erim - ...No. 1/10
Daos - Blah blah evil blah blah. 1/10.
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Lufia 1:
Nazeby: 1/10
Gades: 7/10
Amon: 1/10
Erim: 5/10
Daos: 2/10
Lufia 2:
Gades: 7/10 Frue destruction
Idura: 5/10
Amon: 1/10
Erim: 7/10
Daos: 1/10
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Grah to Hauser not getting properly ranked. Especially considering some of the other scrubs that were included from the other games...
Lufia 1:
Nazeby: DNR
Gades: 5, funny enough, threatening enough... feels a lot like Belselk. Played his part well enough for this.
Amon: 3 - The scrub of the Sinistrals, really. His fight might be memorable, but the circumstances behind it, as well as anything to do with his personality are lacking at best. Mostly felt like he was there so that the Sinistrals had four members.
Erim: 7. Gets this high for being one of the earliest examples of 'Tomato in the Mirror' in RPGs... or indeed, video games in general. For once, the main heroine's secret doesn't turn out to be the 'world-saving awesome goddess powers'. May have started the trend of blue-haired 'secretly-a-goddess' main heroines, though... Eh, 7 works since Lufia herself was decent.
Daos: 4 - Also barely there, but felt threatening and instigates the whole Sinistral Fusion thing...
Lufia 2
Disclaimer: The first three Lufia games are all the same plot with slightly different characters... And the Villains are all literally the same... >.>;;
Gades: 5 - Sinistral of Destruction! Really, seriously, truly.
Idura: 6 - More development than all non-Erim Sinistrals. That's sad. But hey, Dekar rival!
Amon: 3 - Sinistral of... what was it this time? Chaos? Famine? War?
Erim: 8 - Because I liked Iris more than Lufia, one more point.
Daos: 4 - Same old, same old
Arek: 2 - He is saved from being a 1 by the sole grace of never doing anything offensive. Of course, he never does -anything- besides ask Erim some questions in the prologue... Who IS this guy?! And why did he have to inspire a million Lufia fanfics?
Lufia 3
Gades: 5
Amon: 4, he did slightly more here.
Erim: 6, This plot twist is getting old... Seena was even a fairly amusing female lead, but damn, if you've used this plot twist on your audience twice already, you can afford to at least reveal it from the beginning to the player and explore some other aspects of it...
Daos: 4
Egg Dragon: 10, pimptastic.
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Lufia 2:
Gades: 2/10. Fails at being remotely interesting or even being a threat.
Idura: 3/10. Points for persistence?
Amon: 2/10. Fails at being remotely interesting or even being a threat.
Erim: 5/10. At least her being Iris was kinda cool, but her bipolarity wasn't really explored.
Daos: 2/10. Fails at being remotely interesting or... yeah, whatever.
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Lufia 1:
Nazeby: DNR (2) What. Whoever this is, they don't deserve anything.
Gades: 2. I don't remember if you even meet any of these scrubs outside the final dungeon.
Amon: 2. I don't remember if you even meet any of these scrubs outside the final dungeon.
Erim: 5. Cool twist I guess, but they ultimately did not much with it.
Daos: 2. I don't remember if you even meet any of these scrubs outside the final dungeon.
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Lufia 1:
Nazeby- 1 is there
Gades- 1 is there
Amon- 1 is there
Erim- 2 Lufia is bland
Daos- 1 is there
Lufia 2:
Gades- 1 is there
Idura- 1 is there
Amon- 1 is there
Erim- 5 Iris is actually a better character than Lufia
Daos- 1 is there
Lufia 3:
Gades- 1 is there
Amon- 1 is there
Erim- 3, I'd like to give you better score Seena, but your taste in men is just horrible. Leon would cry if he ever finds out what man your are going out with.
Daos-1 is there
Arek: 2 - He is saved from being a 1 by the sole grace of never doing anything offensive. Of course, he never does -anything- besides ask Erim some questions in the prologue... Who IS this guy?! And why did he have to inspire a million Lufia fanfics?
The guy who banned all the gods away from Estopolis and only allow Sinstrals to be the only gods that can exist there. Also the guy who purposely toss the Dual Blade into human world and start the conflict between humanity and gods.
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Charlton should be in the top 10 rankings.
No opinion on Lufia rehashes. Not very memorable except one as a joke character in 3.
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Bah, Kresnik isn't a villain, and how can he be the #1 worst villain?! He's got a motorcycle and motorcycles are kewl or something. Style points alone would propel him above Volsung, sounds like.
Lufia 2:
Gades, Amon, Daos - 2/10. RARGH WE WILL SHOW YOU HUMANS
Idura - 4/10.
Erim - 5/10. Did not do tons with the plot twist, but interesting enough.
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Lufia 2: The only one of the Lufia games I remember (I played 1 but have essentially no memory of it...). I actually like the game a lot, both for its PC cast and its gameplay, but the villains... not so much.
Gades: 3/10. Point for appearing quite a bit for a villain of this era. Loses a point for going down like a chump every time.
Idura: 4/10. Style points, loses to Dekar, but there's no shame in losing to Dekar.
Amon: 3/10. Inoffensive.
Erim: 6/10. Didn't really get much in the way of development, because this is before the wake of FF6 really washed over the entire JRPG community; in 1995, developing villains was still something PC adventure games did. What they tried to do with her was quite interesting and she came out pretty good for her time, and there was nothing WRONG with her portrayal. There just wasn't enough there.
Daos: 3/10. Inoffensive.
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Lufia 2:
Gades- 1 is there
Idura- 1 is there
Amon- 1 is there
Erim- 5 Iris is actually a better character than Lufia
Daos- 1 is there
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Lufia 2:
Gades/Idura/Amon/Daos: 3/10. They existed. 3/10 is a pretty standard ranking for folks who have nothing interesting going for them but also don't manage to irritate me in any way. I could give Daos a point for YOU LITTLE HOOCHIES, but eh.
Erim: 5/10. Vaguely had a personality? I dunno, it's really been too long for me to remember much here. Average works.
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Lufia 2:
Gades/Idura/Amon/Daos: 3/10. They existed. 3/10 is a pretty standard ranking for folks who have nothing interesting going for them but also don't manage to irritate me in any way. I could give Daos a point for YOU LITTLE HOOCHIES, but eh. EDIT: Daos 4/10 for that line.
Erim: 5/10. Average works.
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Lufia 2:
Gades: 4/10 - He was there. Get's an extra point for persistence in trying to beat somebody who whooped him without the Dual Blade.
Indura: 7/10 - Yeah, he wasn't the biggest threat out there in the large scale, but he managed to make it personal by threatening the life of Maxim's son. Sometimes villainy can be found in the small things too, like say, baby-sized things.
Amon: 3/10 - He was there.
Erim: 7/10 - I think this game did a decent job of showing her waver between sides.
Daos: 3/10 - He was there.
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Lufia 1:
Nazeby: 2/10. Purely for "I have the pleasure of sending you...... TO YOUR DOOM!" Camp.
Gades: 1/10. No.
Amon: 1/10. No.
Erim: 5/10. One part tsundere, one part traitor, one part confused goddess of death. It worked for the era.
Daos: 3/10. Gets points for being a total jackass? I dunno.
Lufia 2:
Gades: 3/10. He would be higher if he had never appeared after his first arc.
Idura: 8/10. This guy is a great dastardly villain. He managed to be a recurring villain that was somewhat amusing in his fights with Dekar but was a legitimate threat (almost killed the heroes infant child). The scene where he trapped Dekar in the cage by pretending to surrender and leave really struck me as a magnificent bastard moment. Lots of villainous fun even if he is a minor player.
Amon: 2/10. Like Gades, he just kinda existed. Unlike Gades he got owned by some priestess elfgirl.
Erim: 8/10. Iris/Erim manipulated everyone to serve her own ends. And she did it with a significant amount of style all the way throughout. The ambiguity surrounding what she really felt vs. what emotions she showed makes her a far deeper villain than I thought this game capable of. Also gets points for testing Maxim's commitment to fidelity.
Daos: 3/10. Generic RAR I EAT BABIES villain. What else is there to say.
Lufia 3:
Gades: 4/10. I can't NOT give points for FRUE DESTRUCTION. I'm sorry.
Amon: 4/10. Works as a real scheming bastard for once. I give him a point for being a solid fight.
Erim: 6/10. Got to give her a point for the most convoluted suicide plot EVER.
Daos: 4/10. The villains are a lot campier when they are more pixelated, it seems.
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Arek: 2 - He is saved from being a 1 by the sole grace of never doing anything offensive. Of course, he never does -anything- besides ask Erim some questions in the prologue... Who IS this guy?! And why did he have to inspire a million Lufia fanfics?
The guy who banned all the gods away from Estopolis and only allow Sinstrals to be the only gods that can exist there. Also the guy who purposely toss the Dual Blade into human world and start the conflict between humanity and gods.
Is there any source I can quote to confirm this? There's probably a few Lufia fansites that would be happy to finally have the answer. This information is completely unknown to the American Lufia fanbase (what little of that remains).
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Lufia 2:
Gades/Idura/Amon/Daos: 3/10. They existed. 3/10 is a pretty standard ranking for folks who have nothing interesting going for them but also don't manage to irritate me in any way. I could give Daos a point for YOU LITTLE HOOCHIES, but eh. EDIT: Daos 4/10 for that line.
Erim: 5/10. Average works.
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Arek: 2 - He is saved from being a 1 by the sole grace of never doing anything offensive. Of course, he never does -anything- besides ask Erim some questions in the prologue... Who IS this guy?! And why did he have to inspire a million Lufia fanfics?
The guy who banned all the gods away from Estopolis and only allow Sinstrals to be the only gods that can exist there. Also the guy who purposely toss the Dual Blade into human world and start the conflict between humanity and gods.
Is there any source I can quote to confirm this? There's probably a few Lufia fansites that would be happy to finally have the answer. This information is completely unknown to the American Lufia fanbase (what little of that remains).
It'll be hard to locate them now. But Lufia 2 basically hinted more or less at what I said if you look closely enough. Though, there is not a single clue on Arekdias's motive, Erim probably knows but she isn't telling anyone... well there might be some clue if you treat Energy Breaker as a part of Estopolis continuity (which I do). In which case, Orleas and Selufia's actions can be epxlained as something tolerated by Arekdias and thus explain some of his motive. It hints a lot more if Selufia is indeed Erim.
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This'll be updated in a few days, probably Friday. Get your votes in now!
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Lufia 1:
Nazeby: 1/10. Scores below 3/10 are reserved for those who stand out as being really bad *OR* if you're so god damn forgettable I can't even remember who the fuck you are. Nazeby falls under the latter, in such a way that I don't even recognize the name.
Gades: 3/10. Was there.
Amon: 3/10. Was there.
Erim: 3/10. Was there.
Daos: 3/10. Was there.
...I know I'm quoting people, but whatever.
Lufia 2:
Gades: 3/10. Hey, he was threatening for about 20 minutes! ...then you kick his ass, thus he loses all points.
Idura: 5/10. Worked for a henchman, being a persistent jack ass, but not much else.
Amon: 3/10. see Gades or something
Erim: 5/10. Yeah, I'll give her points for the Iris thing.
Daos: 4/10. See Gades/Amon, +1 points for "You Hoochies!" line though.
Lufia 3:
Gades: 4/10. See L2 Gades, +1 point for FRUE DESTRUCTION.
Amon: 3/10. See L2 Amon!
Erim: 3/10. The Seena stuff felt completely forced and bullshit, unlike Iris where there were allusions early on that there was something up with her.
Daos: 5.5/10. He deserves points just for being so amazingly hamtastic in this game, what with the whole "I'm mojo jojo!" aspect. Ranting on about killing a monster, and how its going to cause Terror, when he just saved people, then killing the guy...while ranting...and continuing the rant...yeah, it made me laugh. This is not something a villain like him should be doing, but fuck, its Lufia villains, if they don't get points there, I don't know where they're getting points.
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Okay, that's it! Results coming soon.
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Results!
Lufia 1:
Nazeby: DNR. (1.40, 5 rankers.)
Gades: 2.87, 8 rankers.
Amon: 2.00, 8 rankers.
Erim: 4.25, 8 rankers.
Daos: 2.31, 8 rankers.
Lufia 2:
Gades: 3.00, 15rankers.
Idura: 4.00, 15 rankers.
Amon: 2.26, 15 rankers.
Erim: 5.66, 15 rankers.
Daos: 2.66, 15 rankers.
Lufia 3:
Gades: 3.50, 4 rankers.
Amon: 3.00, 4 rankers.
Erim: 4.50, 4 rankers.
Daos: 3.62, 4 rankers.
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Top ten highest ranked villains:
1. Delita(FFT): 9.04, 12 rankers. (3 DNR)
2. Irving Vold Valeria(WA2): 9.00, 16 rankers.
3. Dycedarg(FFT): 7.86, 15 rankers.
4. Charlton(WAXF): 7.82, 11 rankers. (Thanks Dhyer!)
5. Bangaa(FFTA2): 7.66, 3 rankers.
6. Jecht(FFX): 7.30, 15 rankers. (3 DNR)
7. Katrina: 7.22, 9 rankers. (1 DNR)
8. Reno(FF7): 7.21, 21 rankers.
9. Liz: 7.04, 12 rankers.
10. Rufus(FF7): 6.97, 21 rankers.
Top ten lowest ranked villains
1. Kresnik: 1.47, 13 rankers. (6 DNR)
2. Volsung: 1.64, 14 rankers. (1 DNR)
3. Zemus/Zeromus(FF4): 1.88, 17 rankers.
4. Amon(Lufia 1): 2.00, 8 rankers.
5. Necron(FF9): 2.13, 22 rankers.
6. Amon(Lufia 2): 2.26, 15 rankers.
7. Daos(Lufia 1): 2.31, 8 rankers.
8. Adel(FF8): 2.33, 18 rankers. (1 DNR)
9. Mewt(FFTA): 2.44, 9 rankers.
10. Congressional Knights: 2.47, 16 rankers. (2 DNR)
Victims of Fate:
Baigan: DNR (2.2, 10 voters.)
Jenova: DNR (3.00, 12 rankers.)
Edea: DNR (4.8, 10 rankers.)
Beatrix: DNR (5.83, 10 rankers.)
Golagros: DNR (4.5, 6 rankers.)
Bart: DNR (3.2, 5 rankers.)
Celia: DNR (4.00, 7 rankers.)
Lede: DNR. (4.28, 7 rankers.)
High Priest Funeral: DNR (3.66, 6 rankers.)
Kletian: DNR (3.42, 7 rankers.)
Cid: DNR. (4.00, 3 rankers.)
Neukhia: DNR. (4.00, 2 rankers.)
Luceid: DNR. (2.25, 12 rankers.)
Nazeby: DNR. (1.40, 5 rankers.)
Victims of really sucking:
Kain(1.0, 1 vote)
Tunnel Armor(10, 1 vote)
Yuffie(4.0, 1 vote)
The Occuria(5.33, 3 votes)
Dycedarg's Elder Brother(10.00, 1 vote.)
Professor Daravon(10.00, 1 vote.)
Marche(10.00, 1 vote.)
Fiore and Asia: (2.00, 3 votes.)
Hauser: (2.50, 4 votes.)
WA5 Writers: (10.00, 2 votes.)
Ice Queen Avril: (8.00, 1 vote.)
Arek(2.00, 1 vote.)
Egg Dragon(2.00, 1 vote.)
Games ranked:
FF1, FF2, FF3, FF4, FF5, FF6, FF7, FF8, FF9, FF10, FF12, FFT, FFTA, FFTA2, WA1, WA2, WA3, WA4, WA5, WA:XF, Lufia 1, Lufia 2, Lufia 3.
Yeah, Lufia wasn't a great rating category. Oh well. Let's move along and pretend it never happened! I'm also going to skip Lufia 4 since I think that may get like 2 voters total. Moving along, let's move onto the granddady of RPG series! I'm going to do more than three this week since it's such a damned small rank until like DW4.
Dragon Warrior 1:
DragonLord
Dragon Warrior 2:
Hargon
Malroth
Dragon Warrior 3:
Kandar
Baramos
Zoma
Dragon Warrior 4:
Saro's Shadow
Balzack
Keeleon
Necrosaro
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Dragon Warrior 1:
DragonLord: 5/10. He gets points for trying to get you to voluntarily game-over.
Dragon Warrior 3:
Kandar: 2/10. Loser.
Baramos: 4/10.
Zoma: 3/10.
Dragon Warrior 4:
Saro's Shadow: 2/10. Kidnaps kids. Gets a point for the flying shoes.
Balzack: 5/10. Bastardly.
Keeleon: 3/10.
Necrosaro: 8/10. Dicked over by bad circumstances and bad choices.
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Dragon Warrior 3:
Kandar 1/10 Some angry guy.
Baramos 3/10 Some demon guy. Kind of sort of intimidating.
Zoma 3/10 Baramos v2.
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Saro's Shadow: 2/10. He uh kidnaps children.
Balzack: 4/10. He's okay I suppose. Does some really nasty things.
Keeleon: 3/10. Bad, stupid, unexplained case of possession, but gets one point for the cheesy French accent in the remake.
Necrosaro: 2/10. Sucks. EVOLVES or something. The subplot with that elf girl was pitifully underexplained and stupid anyway.
Replaying the game reminded me how bad this game's plot was.
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Dragon Warrior 4:
Saro's Shadow - DNR (1/10), mook who kidnaps children. How exciting.
Balzack - EVOLUTION WITHOUT LIMITATION. Oh, and he kills a guy and takes over a castle. Yay. 2/10
Keeleon - The possession thing was really, really dumb. 1/10
Necrosaro - Yeah, the "idiot who makes bad choices and is dicked over by circumstances" puts him ahead of ye standard NES villain. 5/10
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Necrosaro: 6.5 - Enjoyed him overall. He... has a lot of angsty prettyboy qualities, but for some reason, I don't really associate him with that cliche. He fits plenty of other cliches, but I think he manages a nice middle ground between them as a villain and (especially in the remake) tragic hero. Not great, but the best you get from NES-age RPGs.
Others: DNR. When you're less memorable than Lufia villains, it's time to drop out.
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Dragon Warrior 1:
DragonLord - 4/10? The instruction manual made him out to be the one unhappy guy in the kingdom of sunny awesomeness, but one unhappy guy was enough when he finds the orb of controlling dragons. Then you fight him and... he turns into his true form, a dragon? Then he never was an unhappy guy to begin with. Bah. Minor NES-credit for the "Join me!" question, granted.
Dragon Warrior 2:
Hargon - 2/10 DNR, generic evil dude with illusions or something.
Malroth - 2/10 DNR, generic evil dude.
Did DW2 even assign any direct villainy for the opening sack of Moonbrooke, the one bad thing the villains do in the game? I seem to recall it was just monsters busy cackling about how they're totally gonna conquer the world.
Dragon Warrior 3:
Kandar - DNR, is bad man.
Baramos - 2/10, is bad but SURPRISE there's another bad guy.
Zoma - 2/10, is bad and decides to MAGICALLY ANNOUNCE TO THE THRONE ROOM after you beat Baramos "Bwahaha! I'm bad too! Come beat me up!" Yet does nothing actually bad to the main world of DW3. Classic villainy... in the "stupid" sense of classic.
Dragon Warrior 4:
Saro's Shadow - DNR, is random monster henchman of Saro who gets the credit for the Chapter 1 plot.
Balzack - 5/10, sure, he actually does evil things.
Keeleon - 3/10, more generic bad guy.
Necrosaro - 6/10 A good villain for the era. Has a sympathetic reason for going crazy, has a solid plan... good stuff.
Good call leaving Esturk out, he's basically a plot device. Radimvice... doesn't he get more plot in the remake? The plot's interesting as is, changing it from a "folly of humankind's greed" a la Aktemto the badness of one monster, but so it goes.
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Giving this the ol' college bump!
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Radimvice/Aamon's plot is exactly the same in both the remake and the original. That is probably one of the only cool things about DQ4's plot, that a random underling stabs the big bad in the back in order to make him MORE EVIL.
I remain baffled by Psaro hype in general. The above plot twist would have been cool... but the problem is it didn't actually change him. He was always "blargh humans, yay monsters!" (see: hunting down Sofia, ensuring Esturk's resurrection so he could destroy humans and let monsters reign supreme, etc.). I guess the Necrosaro transformation made him MORE EVIL but he was always out to kick puny human ass, just now he's uglier. This is highly uninteresting, and static despite seeming otherwise. Basically he does absolutely nothing and some of his non-actions (why does he participate in the Endor tourney? Why does he drop out?) are not explained, so overall the character, like the game's plot in general, leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Don't really think that's good for the era.
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DHE: Saro interacts with the plot. Hence the "good for the era" hype. To note it by counterexample... DW1-3 all have the problem that their big bads are sitting in their invincible castle filled with monsters waiting for some hero to beat them up. The number of bad actions they actually take, or actions period, verges on 0. Really depends on how much hype you give to their army of monsters.... I certainly have nothing against a good "controller" or politician villain who gets others to do their dirty work for them, but I never really got the impression the various DQ baddies were the ones saying "Bob! Smash the bridge! Fred! Kidnap the engineer in the nearby village! We'll stop anyone from crossing and show those puny humans!" Hell, Garland is better than this simply for kidnapping the Princess personally rather than outsourcing its defense to a dragon.
Saro runs around and messes with your party repeatedly, and you generally have a vague idea of what Saro's up to. I approve. Granted, he doesn't personally face off with you much... but once RPGs learned that hero-villain interaction was a good thing, it does avoid the problem many later games have of "Bwahaha! Hi! I'm awesome and could slay you all. Instead I will release this monster then teleport away." (Though this is still way better than "does nothing.")
(Also, as for the tournament issue... it's never explained, but I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that he found out that the Hero's hometown had been found and went there to finish the job. Don't the monsters you overhear talk directly to Saro when it's being burnt down?)
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If I recall correctly, Saro was in the area for the Golden Bracelet incident and did the tournament to kill time while his minions did their job. Once that was done Saro left since he didn't really give two whits about the entire thing. The game doesn't do a very good job of elaborating this. Still, it's reasonable enough -if you gather that bit of information- and a way to play up the bad guy as a badass.
This may have also been added in the DS version and I'm retro-adding it. It's been awhile.
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Dragon Warrior 1:
DragonLord: 2/10. "Rar, I'm the bad guy, watch as I sit on my throne and mock you!"
Dragon Warrior 2:
Hargon: 3/10. Gets a point for having more than one scene, which is that much more than DragonLord had!
Malroth: 1/10. Space Flea from Nowhere.
Dragon Warrior 3:
Kandar: Who The Fuck Are You/10.
Baramos: 2/10. Basically Dragonlord MkII.
Zoma: 1/10. Is Malroth MkII.
Dragon Warrior 4:
Saro's Shadow: 2/10. Had to check back and...yeah, ok, this works for a bland, stupid, badly written villain, much like Dragonlord.
Balzack: 4/10. Has a vague sense of plot and motives, I guess, which...uh...something? This is probably the highest a Dragon Quest villain is going to get, preDQ8.
Keeleon: 3/10. More seens than Saro's Shadow, so uh, ONE MORE POINT!?
Necrosaro: 2/10. Replaying the game recently...no, he's just a bad villain. First off, his "Secret of Evolution!" is just another way of saying 'Humans suck, we're going to become superior to kick their asses!" his Rosa motive was just a sad attempt to make you pity him, cause all he does is rant about "Rar, save us Nonhumans!" and she doesn't even say anything (even in remakes.) Fuck, he even tries to pull a "Summon Ultimate Evil Being!" stunt, just for once that's not the final boss. I really don't agree with "Good for the time" cause...
FF2's Emperor was a better villain. He has similar amount of screen time, and like Saro, active role in the plot...but at least his evil deeds were genuinely evil, and he even has the first "My Death Is Only the beginning!" stunt and what not. He's a pretty poor villain himself, but he predates Saro I believe, and when you're worse than him despite coming after...yeah...
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I should note the remake gives no indication of Saro's actual reason for the Arena stunt. From the sounds of things? Sounds mostly like he was just bored, killing time, and by the time Alena got there, he had better things to do. It'd be one thing if he appeared in the Arena and said "I don't care, you can win this!" to Alena, but he doesn't even show up, so its likely he had already high tailed (he was, after all, about to invade Solofia's hometown soon.)
Really, DQ4DS adds nothing to Saro; I thought I was maybe misremembering a few scenes with him, but in truth, that wasn't the case; he's just not a very well elaborated villain, and what we do know of him is generic, even for then. Again, see my comparison to FF2's Emperor, someone who got very little respect in this topic (if rightfully so...).
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Whoops, I knew I forgot something! Okay, this closes tonight or tomorrow morning, get your votes in now!
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Can we get a revival of this topic? Discussion here was such a good refresher for games I hadn't played in ages.
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Cause I like this topic. Results!
Dragon Warrior 1:
DragonLord 3.666666667, 3 votes
Dragon Warrior 2:
Hargon 2.5, 2 votes
Malroth 1.5, 2 votes
Dragon Warrior 3:
Kandar 1.5, 2 votes (1 DNR)
Baramos 2.75, 4 votes
Zoma 2.25, 4 votes
Dragon Warrior 4:
Saro's Shadow 2, 3 votes (3 DNR)
Balzack 4, 5 votes (1 DNR)
Keeleon 2.6, 5 votes (1 DNR)
Necrosaro 4.916666667, 6 votes
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Top ten highest ranked villains:
1. Delita(FFT): 9.04, 12 rankers. (3 DNR)
2. Irving Vold Valeria(WA2): 9.00, 16 rankers.
3. Dycedarg(FFT): 7.86, 15 rankers.
4. Charlton(WAXF): 7.82, 11 rankers. (Thanks Dhyer!)
5. Bangaa(FFTA2): 7.66, 3 rankers.
6. Jecht(FFX): 7.30, 15 rankers. (3 DNR)
7. Katrina: 7.22, 9 rankers. (1 DNR)
8. Reno(FF7): 7.21, 21 rankers.
9. Liz: 7.04, 12 rankers.
10. Rufus(FF7): 6.97, 21 rankers.
Top ten lowest ranked villains
1. Kresnik: 1.47, 13 rankers. (6 DNR)
2. Volsung: 1.64, 14 rankers. (1 DNR)
3. Zemus/Zeromus(FF4): 1.88, 17 rankers.
4. Amon(Lufia 1): 2.00, 8 rankers.
5. Necron(FF9): 2.13, 22 rankers.
6. Zoma (DW3/DQ3): 2.25, 4 rankers.
7. Amon(Lufia 2): 2.26, 15 rankers.
8. Daos(Lufia 1): 2.31, 8 rankers.
9. Adel(FF8): 2.33, 18 rankers. (1 DNR)
10. Mewt(FFTA): 2.44, 9 rankers.
Victims of Fate:
Baigan: DNR (2.2, 10 voters.)
Jenova: DNR (3.00, 12 rankers.)
Edea: DNR (4.8, 10 rankers.)
Beatrix: DNR (5.83, 10 rankers.)
Golagros: DNR (4.5, 6 rankers.)
Bart: DNR (3.2, 5 rankers.)
Celia: DNR (4.00, 7 rankers.)
Lede: DNR. (4.28, 7 rankers.)
High Priest Funeral: DNR (3.66, 6 rankers.)
Kletian: DNR (3.42, 7 rankers.)
Cid: DNR. (4.00, 3 rankers.)
Neukhia: DNR. (4.00, 2 rankers.)
Luceid: DNR. (2.25, 12 rankers.)
Nazeby: DNR. (1.40, 5 rankers.)
Hargon: DNR (2.5, 2 rankers.)
Malroth: DNR (1.5, 2 rankers.)
Kandar: DNR (1.5, 2 rankers.)
Saro's Shadow: DNR (2.00, 2 rankers.)
Victims of really sucking:
Kain(1.0, 1 vote)
Tunnel Armor(10, 1 vote)
Yuffie(4.0, 1 vote)
The Occuria(5.33, 3 votes)
Dycedarg's Elder Brother(10.00, 1 vote.)
Professor Daravon(10.00, 1 vote.)
Marche(10.00, 1 vote.)
Fiore and Asia: (2.00, 3 votes.)
Hauser: (2.50, 4 votes.)
WA5 Writers: (10.00, 2 votes.)
Ice Queen Avril: (8.00, 1 vote.)
Arek(2.00, 1 vote.)
Egg Dragon(2.00, 1 vote.)
Games ranked:
FF1, FF2, FF3, FF4, FF5, FF6, FF7, FF8, FF9, FF10, FF12, FFT, FFTA, FFTA2, WA1, WA2, WA3, WA4, WA5, WA:XF, Lufia 1, Lufia 2, Lufia 3, DW1, DW2, DW3, DW4/DQ4.
Yeah, Lufia early Dragon Quest wasn't a great rating category. Oh well. Let's move along and pretend it never happened! I'm also going to skip Lufia 4 since I think that may get like 2 voters total.
Moving along to a series I remember something about: Lunar! Hopefully there's significantly more to talk about with this cast. If I managed to forget anyone important, tell me quick and I'll add them in.
Lunar: The Silver Star / Silver Star Story Complete:
Royce
Phacia
Xenobia
Ghaleon
Lunar 2: Eternal Blue / Complete:
White Knight Leo
Lunn
Borgan
Mauri
False Althena
Ghaleon
Zophar
Lunar Dragon So-- *is shot*
Discuss.
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Whoops, missed this. By all means continue it, Djinn.
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Vote slacker!
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Lunar: The Silver Star / Silver Star Story Complete:
Royce - 5/10. Present, had lines. Beyond that, Iunno.
Phacia - 3/10. OHNOES I R REPENTANTANT.
Xenobia - 2/10. Kinda just wasn't there.
Ghaleon - 6/10. I AM A SPOONY BARD FINAL BOSS. Works.
Lunar 2: Eternal Blue / Complete:
White Knight Leo - 7/10, though Mystere/Leo colors this.
Lunn - 2/10. RARR I TRAIN EVIL BABIES.
Borgan - 3/10. RARR I AM EVIL. +1 for bromide hilarity.
Mauri - 4/10. Yeah, decent for mind control.
False Althena - 3/10. Just kinda there.
Ghaleon - 5/10. Amusing cameo.
Zophar - 4/10. Space Flea From The First Scene And Various Other Places.
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Lunar: The Silver Star / Silver Star Story Complete:
Royce: 5/10. Points for the snake.
Phacia: 1/10. Less naked than the others.
Xenobia: 3/10. Not as hot. Seriously, the vile tribe isn't that impressive.
Ghaleon: 10/10. I love Ghaleon. I've gone over him before, but the short is that I like his style, his background, and even his motives. He works exceptionally well, especially with his Lunar 2 appearance mixing with things.
Lunar 2: Eternal Blue / Complete:
White Knight Leo: DNR. I guess...not sure if I very much view him as villain.
Lunn: 1/10. Bleh.
Borgan: 6/10. Not amazing, but at least entertaining and a good fight.
Mauri: Do Not Resuscitate
False Althena: 2/10. Felt very unpresent and impotent.
Ghaleon: 10/10. Still feels threatening.
Zophar: 10/10. Awesome.
Lunar Dragon Song: 10/10. The most vile villain I have ever seen. Completely makes someone hate a game, nay, the entire SERIES because of their involvement. So evil, such diabolical plans...yeah. Probably the best villain in the entire universe, who completely fits wonderfully, and is the best part of the game.
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Lunar: The Silver Star / Silver Star Story Complete:
Royce: 7/10. Royce is a bitch. But she is suitably spiteful and actually very menacing for her arc such that I do appreciate her. Also hot.
Phacia: 4/10. She... inspires nothing in me. Gets a point for being a traitor and surviving?
Xenobia: 6/10. She works for what she does. Not much else to say about her.
Ghaleon: 7/10. Menacing, powerful, intimidating where he needs to be. He works well for what he does. Motivation was silly but eh.
Lunar 2: Eternal Blue / Complete:
White Knight Leo: 8/10. Mystere makes him the best conflicted villain like ever.
Lunn: 3/10. He reforms? Seriously. After everything he did he should have died as a villain. That was screwed up.
Borgan: 6/10. Gets points for being HIDEOUSLY UGLY and just rolling with it.
Mauri: 6/10. I guess? She is suitably wicked at several portions, and her turning around to good was reasonable. Not a bad mind controlled villain.
False Althena: 7/10. Liked her last scene a lot, so I feel she deserves a few points.
Ghaleon: 7/10. Generally likable this time around, and still intimidating like before. Good redemption scene.
Zophar: 9/10. I love voice. What can I say? Zophar is the ubiquitious driving force behind everything. He is evil, he likes it, and I can't help but enjoy his megalomania.
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Lunar: The Silver Star / Silver Star Story Complete:
Royce: 5/10.
Phacia: 6/10. Phacia had a shred of charm, which is good enough to propel her up.
Xenobia: 5/10.
Ghaleon: 10/10. At the end of the day, Ghaleon's right. It's retarded that Althena threw away what she was, tossing aside her duties as a freaking GODDESS(A literal one, not just a title) for her own gratification. It doesn't excuse what he did in response, but I don't fault him at all. He's one of the few villains I've ever felt is reasonable.
Lunar 2: Eternal Blue / Complete:
White Knight Leo: DNR. Eh.
Lunn: 3/10
Borgan: 4/10
Mauri 2/10
False Althena 4/10
Ghaleon 0/10: I despite Ghaleon's return. It was unneeded and cheap.
Zophar 6/10.
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Lunar: The Silver Star / Silver Star Story Complete:
Royce - I barely remember you at all. 2/10
Phacia - OMG VILE TRIBE ISN'T COMPLETELY EVIL. Needed to make it work better, but at least I remember her shtick. 2.5/10
Xenobia - I also barely remember you at all. 2/10
Ghaleon - Had stage presence and was generally memorable. Motivation... eh, 5/10 works.
Lunar 2: Eternal Blue / Complete:
White Knight Leo - DNR.
Lunn - Oh please. 1/10.
Borgan - Oh please Mk2. 1/10
Mauri - DNR. lol mind control.
False Althena - Meh. 3/10
Ghaleon - Again, works. 5/10
Zophar - Space flea, sure, but he pops up every now again, making him superior to other space fleas. Also generally memorable. 4/10 works.
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Lunar: The Silver Star / Silver Star Story Complete:
Royce- 6/10. Works. Well, mostly works.
Phacia- 3/10. zzzzz
Xenobia- 3/10? I feel like I might be forgetting some of the detail from her stint as not!Lemia but I dunno.
Ghaleon- 6/10. Good presence but feels like he spends too much time enjoying being an over the top villain to mesh with his motives. Like... I feel like someone with his motivation shouldn't be so overtly evil, or someone so overtly evil shouldn't be motivated by such noble, or at least sensible, origins.
Lunar 2: Eternal Blue / Complete:
White Knight Leo- 3/10. Leo the Villain is a rules lawyering dickweed. Does not reflect on his later character development.
Lunn- 3/10. zzzzzz.
Borgan- 5/10. As completely retarded as he is as a villain, the reveal that, really, he was just obsessively in love with Lemina's mom is that right level of sad to make him an overall tolerable character.
Mauri- 2/10. I remember finding her whole arc kinda offensive. Memory is fuzzy but I think it had to due with hating how she affected Ronfar.
False Althena- 6/10. VSM.
Ghaleon- 8/10. This is sort of complicated.
Ghaleon's motive rant at the end of SSSC, while it does fit with the events of the game, in many ways comes out of nowhere because, like I mentioned before, feeling compelled to either resurrect or replace Althena because of a sincere belief that the world needed an absolute being feels very at odds with his general MO of murder, mayhem, and killing everyone in his way. I think the a big reason Eternal Blue is a sequel, and not its own story, was they really wanted to provide a better, more tangible context for Althena's decision to relinquish her powers and go into more detail about Ghaleon's motives in the first game.
From everything we see in EBC, Althena could never truly destroy Zophar. Seemingly, the greater part of Althena's magic is invested in her creations; in other words, by all evidence Althena's magic is literally the core of life on her worlds. Just ending his reign of destruction and sealing him on the blue star required her to, in fact, reabsorb the vast majority of her magic to redirect at him, with the direct consequence that the blue star reverted to a dead waste of a world.
However... what we see at the end of the game, with the party regaining their skills through force of will, also suggests that over time althena's powers grow with the creation of new life, and that further humans, as intelligent beings, are theoretically capable of generating new magical power on their own. However, by relying on Althena's presence, this development was stunted, perhaps indefinitely.
In other words, a large part of Lunar 2 seems to be just saying "ultimately, Althena was doing what was best for her creation."
What I like about Lunar 2 Ghaleon is that, from the outset, he's seen that the world has grown in Althena's absence, and thus determined to safeguard it in his own way, while still having the same flair for the dramatic and hint of enigma he always had. In other words, I think it's the right balance they should have run with in SSSC and he's a lot better for it.
Zophar- 6/10. I AM ZOPHAR MASTER OF *FOGHORN*
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Lunar: The Silver Star / Silver Star Story Complete:
Royce- 5/10 Worked
Phacia- 6/10 Worked, one pity point for what happened to her in Lunar2's time
Xenobia- 5/10 worked
Ghaleon- 4/10 worked, but I hate you
Lunar 2: Eternal Blue / Complete:
White Knight Leo- DNR
Lunn- 3/10 Yeah
Borgan- 5/10 Funny I guess?
Mauri- DNR
False Althena- 3/10 Yawn
Ghaleon- 4/10 Inoffensive but really isn't needed
Zophar- 6/10 worked
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Lunar: The Silver Star / Silver Star Story Complete:
Royce - 5/10. Worked. There's nothing notable good about her though.
Phacia - 5/10. Same as Royce. The whole deal about her not being a rear end didn't do that much.
Xenobia - 4/10. She's like Royce, but toke part in far more annoying cut-scenes.
Ghaleon - 8/10. Stylish and manages to pull of being a threat. He has minor glitches when it comes to motive, but is otherwise a solid villain.
Lunar 2: Eternal Blue / Complete:
White Knight Leo - DNR.
Lunn - 1/10. He has the most nonsensical scenes. The whole debate over the blue and black dragon styles was painful, not to mention that the blue and black dragons already exist elsewhere. He shouldn't have been allowed to enter the tournament on account of being a criminal and frankly, arrest/kill him would have been the reasonable approach instead of teaching him the error of his ways.
Borgan - 6/10. I can understand "create my own magical floating city" as a goal and bigotry is very plausible. It was easy to see what he was thinking, and more importantly, what he was not thinking.
Mauri - 3/10 - I found her inoffensive, but totally bland. The only reason I felt she needed help was because otherwise Ronfar would have been sad, not because I actually cared about her.
False Althena - 3/10. She just kind off exist. The game doesn't mention her name which I think says a lot about how serious the writers toke her.
Ghaleon - 4/10. Well, it was fun seeing him zapping Leo, but he felt unneeded.
Zophar - 4/10. He does manage to look evil and menacing and all that. However, despite the story portraying him as more powerful than Ghaleon and more malevolent, he still did a worse job at actually feeling like a threat.
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Throwing in my 2 cents before I post results.
Lunar: The Silver Star / Silver Star Story Complete:
Royce - 8 - Really liked her. It was nice to get some villain presence in early, and she was a delightful bitch. Especially enjoyed her scenes with Nash.
Phacia - 5 - Eh, I don't really like her, but she's better than a 4 due to giving the Vile Tribe something vaguely sympathetic.
Xenobia - 5 - Eh, I like her more than Phacia, I guess, but there's definitely some boosting going on because I liked her boss fight.
Ghaleon - 8 - See CK.
Lunar 2: Eternal Blue / Complete:
White Knight Leo - 7 - Favorite villain in this one. Works as a reformed PC, unlike a lot of others that fit this trope.
Lunn - 2 - Ugh.
Borgan - 7 - Funny. Liked his boss fight.
Mauri - 3 - I could barely remember her name.
False Althena - 3 - Doesn't even have a name.
Ghaleon - 7 - See CK. I think his appearances work well together. I'll be tallying these separately due to how I set up the voting.
Zophar - 7 - I like Space Fleas, and Zophar is one of the better ones.
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Results:
Lunar: The Silver Star / Silver Star Story Complete:
Royce 5.333333333 (9 raters)
Phacia 3.944444444 (9 raters)
Xenobia 3.888888889 (9 raters)
Ghaleon 7.111111111 (9 raters)
Lunar 2: Eternal Blue / Complete:
White Knight Leo 6.25 (4 raters, 5 DNR)
Lunn 2.111111111 (9 raters)
Borgan 4.777777778 (9 raters)
Mauri 3.333333333 (6 raters, 3 DNR)
False Althena 3.777777778 (9 raters)
Ghaleon 5.555555556 (9 raters)
Zophar 6.222222222 (9 raters)
Not really sure what to do about Mauri. Is 1/3 DNR the threshhold for discluding someone?
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Top ten highest ranked villains:
1. Delita(FFT): 9.04, 12 rankers. (3 DNR)
2. Irving Vold Valeria(WA2): 9.00, 16 rankers.
3. Dycedarg(FFT): 7.86, 15 rankers.
4. Charlton(WAXF): 7.82, 11 rankers. (Thanks Dhyer!)
5. Bangaa(FFTA2): 7.66, 3 rankers.
6. Jecht(FFX): 7.30, 15 rankers. (3 DNR)
7. Katrina: 7.22, 9 rankers. (1 DNR)
8. Reno(FF7): 7.21, 21 rankers.
9. Ghaleon(Lunar1): 7.11, 9 rankers.
10. Liz: 7.04, 12 rankers.
11. Rufus(FF7): 6.97, 21 rankers.
Top ten lowest ranked villains
1. Kresnik: 1.47, 13 rankers. (6 DNR)
2. Volsung: 1.64, 14 rankers. (1 DNR)
3. Zemus/Zeromus(FF4): 1.88, 17 rankers.
4. Amon(Lufia 1): 2.00, 8 rankers.
5. Lunn(Lunar2): 2.11, 9 rankers.
6. Necron(FF9): 2.13, 22 rankers.
7. Zoma (DW3/DQ3): 2.25, 4 rankers.
8. Amon(Lufia 2): 2.26, 15 rankers.
9. Daos(Lufia 1): 2.31, 8 rankers.
10. Adel(FF8): 2.33, 18 rankers. (1 DNR)
11. Mewt(FFTA): 2.44, 9 rankers.
Victims of Fate:
Baigan: DNR (2.2, 10 voters.)
Jenova: DNR (3.00, 12 rankers.)
Edea: DNR (4.8, 10 rankers.)
Beatrix: DNR (5.83, 10 rankers.)
Golagros: DNR (4.5, 6 rankers.)
Bart: DNR (3.2, 5 rankers.)
Celia: DNR (4.00, 7 rankers.)
Lede: DNR. (4.28, 7 rankers.)
High Priest Funeral: DNR (3.66, 6 rankers.)
Kletian: DNR (3.42, 7 rankers.)
Cid: DNR. (4.00, 3 rankers.)
Neukhia: DNR. (4.00, 2 rankers.)
Luceid: DNR. (2.25, 12 rankers.)
Nazeby: DNR. (1.40, 5 rankers.)
Hargon: DNR (2.5, 2 rankers.)
Malroth: DNR (1.5, 2 rankers.)
Kandar: DNR (1.5, 2 rankers.)
Saro's Shadow: DNR (2.00, 2 rankers.)
White Knight Leo: DNR (6.25, 4 rankers.)
Victims of really sucking:
Kain(1.0, 1 vote)
Tunnel Armor(10, 1 vote)
Yuffie(4.0, 1 vote)
The Occuria(5.33, 3 votes)
Dycedarg's Elder Brother(10.00, 1 vote.)
Professor Daravon(10.00, 1 vote.)
Marche(10.00, 1 vote.)
Fiore and Asia: (2.00, 3 votes.)
Hauser: (2.50, 4 votes.)
WA5 Writers: (10.00, 2 votes.)
Ice Queen Avril: (8.00, 1 vote.)
Arek(2.00, 1 vote.)
Egg Dragon(2.00, 1 vote.)
Games ranked:
FF1, FF2, FF3, FF4, FF5, FF6, FF7, FF8, FF9, FF10, FF12, FFT, FFTA, FFTA2, WA1, WA2, WA3, WA4, WA5, WA:XF, Lufia 1, Lufia 2, Lufia 3, DW1, DW2, DW3, DW4/DQ4, Lunar1, Lunar2.
Wow... Lunn managed to rank lower than Necron.
Next... Chrono Trigger/Chrono Cross!
Who should we be voting on for this? CT has lots of minor stuff, so I'm not sure where to draw the line. And, of course, CC plot is a trainwreck and who knows what even counts as a villain? ORCHA?! FARGO?!
Anyway, waiting for some suggestions on this before I open voting.
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CT: Magus, Lavos, Azala, Ozzie, Slash, Flea, Dalton, Queen Zeal, probably best in order of arrival in plot.
CC: Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh uhm ... uh FATE?
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Chrono Trigger:
Slash
Flea
Ozzie
Magus
Azala
Dalton
Queen Zeal
Lavos
Chrono Cross:
Lynx
Harle
Miguel
Dragons
Fate
You can add Viper/Karsh/Zoah/Marcy/Garai if you want but meh. Weird to rank the Dragons as a collective but they're too important to ignore yet unrankable individually. Sorta like the Congressional Knights or the Gazel Ministry I guess.
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Going with basically NEB's list. Adding in the minor-ish ones to CC, but feel free to DNR them off. Note that even with CC-level plot, most of them have more development than anything from the DQ/early FF era, and we ranked those, so I don't feel bad about adding them.
Chrono Trigger:
Slash
Flea
Ozzie
Magus
Azala
Dalton
Queen Zeal
Lavos
Chrono Cross:
Lynx
Harle
Viper
Karsh
Zoah
Marcy
Garai
Dario
Miguel
Dragons
FATE
Time Devourer
Vote or suffer the consequences!
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Chrono Trigger:
Slash 2/10. There
Flea 2/10. Gimmick.
Ozzie 3/10. Unfunny gimmick but memorable.
Magus 7/10. Style and generally effective.
Azala 2/10. Barely there.
Dalton- 1/10. Unfunny gimmick and not cool at all. Go away.
Queen Zeal 5/10. Entirely style, but she worked.
Lavos 6/10. He's just a faceless space flea or whatever the tropes term is, but he was a constant presence threat that transcended time. Works.
Chrono Cross:
Lynx- 7.5/10. I'll defend Lynx as one of the few bright spots of CC plot. He was a competent villain who succeeded at his plans and did exactly what he set out to do with a minimum of bullshit.
Harle- DNR, only remember her as a PC. Did have the Harley Quinn style which is neat.
Viper- 3/10. Old fool at least in the path where he is a villain.
Karsh- DNR.
Zoah- DNR.
Marcy- DNR.
Garai- 2/10. Barely existed.
Dario- 8/10. Very good backstory about someone who died and the guilt about it afterward. Way better than I expected from CC plot, and the resolution made sense. He and the survivors just sort of pick up the pieces after he is uncursed in the world he survived in, and nothing else.
Miguel- I can't for the life of me consider Miguel a villain. You do fight him, but I mostly remember him giving you some plot backstory before getting killed.
Dragons- Don't remember.
FATE- I know it's techincally Lynx, but CC plot is very hazy after Polispolice and Kid rejoins.
Time Devourer- 1/10 GO AWAY
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Chrono Trigger:
Slash - Fail minion. 1/10
Flea - Fail minion, gets half a point for EBIL TRANNY. 1.5/10
Ozzie - Fail minion. 1/10
Magus - Mmm... yeah, he worked for what he was. 6/10
Azala - RAR LIZARD SUPREMACY and then you make her dead. 2/10
Dalton - Go. Away. 1/10
Queen Zeal - Whee evil queen. 2/10
Lavos - Worked, unlike most space fleas. 4/10.
Chrono Cross:
Lynx - Okay Lynx started off kinda cool as a villain. Then the game decided that it was gonna have him go SERGE I AM YOUR FATHER OH I AM ALSO EBIL SUPERCOMPUTER. Then I just went "what is this I don't even." Then I docked him 3 points. 3/10.
Harle- Uh... DN...R? I vaguely remember her being connected with the dragons somehow but... meh.
Viper - 2/10. Whee unwitting dupe who barely exists.
Karsh - DNR.
Zoah - DNR.
Marcy - DNR.
Garai - Man Garai you barely existed. DNR.
Dario - DNR. lolpossessedbyebilsword
Miguel - DNR.
Dragons - Oh fuck this bunch. 1/10
Solt & Peppor - Yeah sure they had a pretty good comedy routine going on. 5/10.
FATE - DNR, is Lynx.
Time Devourer - NO. (1/10)
Edited for SOLT & PEPPOR
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Slash - 1/10. Impotent.
Flea - 2/10. Impotent, but points for sexiness.
Ozzie - 3/10. Gets points for being impotent, but evilifying Magus?
Magus - DNR. Do not see him as a villain, personally.
Azala - 7.375/10. Pretty neat as a villain - a war of evolution.
Dalton - 5/10. Impotent, but entertaining.
Queen Zeal - 3/10. Taken over by Lavos...boring otherwise.
Lavos - 8.25/10. Giant hungry space porcupine is pretty eat. LOLPUNZ
Alfador - Come on, how did you forget him? 10/10. More evil than Evil the Cat. Excellent villain who manipulated everything, and was not only evil, but CHARMING at it. Amazing.
Don't...remember CC well enough to rate the villains.
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Chrono Trigger:
Slash - 5/10 Fun.
Flea - 5.5/10 Fun+Crossdressing. Memorable for being one of the first to make it to the US.
Ozzie - 5/10 Fun.
Magus - 6/10 Eh. Something about Magus always irked me. Objectively, he's above average, I'd say.
Azala - 6/10 Good motivation. Fights with a GIGANTIC dinosaur. Really memorable, somewhat pitiable. It's one thing to know the dinosaurs went extinct... it's another thing when you're singlehandedly responsible for genocide.
Dalton - 3/10 Not bad enough to deserve a 1, but not good.
Queen Zeal - 5/10 Related to Magus backstory! >.>;;
Lavos - 8/10 Great Space Flea... or Greatest Space Flea?
Chrono Cross:
Lynx - 7/10 Pretty stylish. His plot is convoluted, but after spending a few weeks deciphering it for the sake of figuring out which CC scrubs actually had any plot worth, I found he wasn't so bad as a villain, he just has a really convoluted origin, if you will. For the cliff notes version: Poor guy who stumbled across FATE, who needed someone to correct the parallel world from his side. He needs Serge's body and the Frozen Flame as the macguffins that would allow FATE to do this. Everthing that happens leading up to these events is basically Lynx/FATE's plans. Notable for -not- being mind-controlled. He says he agrees with FATE's rather extreme methods of controlling people if it's for the sake of keeping Humanity in existence. Horrible father, though. Arguably, he was doing everything for his best friend Miguel and -his- daughter, Leena, since he really had to fuck over Serge's life to accomplish his goals.
Harle - 7/10 Double-double-double agent! She's the Hidden Moon Dragon, who came into existence when FATE split the Dragons' powers up and sealed them separately. Since she was hidden or whatever, she's able to move around freely, so she allies herself with Lynx to spy on FATE's plans. She betrays him by helping Serge (as Lynx), who was tricked into working for the Dragons (who want to destroy all humans). Then she betrays the Dragons by trying to help Serge (and Kidd) when Serge realizes what the Dragons are up to. But then she's absorbed into the Fused Dragon again once the Frozen Flame is released. Kind of tragic and kind of cool.
Viper - 4/10 Hey, someone easy to understand! He works as an old soldier with ambitions. And if he reforms, all the better!
Karsh - 5/10 I remember liking him, for all that I don't remember much about the whole Dragoons plotline.
Zoah - 4/10
Marcy - 4/10 Other Dragoons were just kind of there.
Garai - 4/10
Dario - 5/10 Better plot than most of this set, but still just there. Optional doesn't help his case.
Miguel - 6/10 Really tragic figure. He was just kind of in the wrong place at the wrong time and ended up becoming the guardian of the Sea of Eden, where all the big plot macguffins are. He at least believed in what FATE was trying to do.
Dragons - 6/10 They are nature. They don't like Lavos, but they are willing to use its power to get rid of Humans. Think of them as a magical extension of Azala from CT. They were originally one being (created by nature as a response to Lavos) that was sealed away by FATE by splitting it up into multiple Dragons. They do a pretty decent job tricking Serge and co. into destroying Miguel and breaking their seal, though, so they get a point beyond The Planet's WEAPON plot.
FATE - 8/10 - I actually find FATE to be pretty cool. PSII Mother Brain-esque, but with more time travel. FATE was the supercomputer intelligence created by city of Chronopolis. When Lavos messed up time and flung Chronopolis into the distant past in one universe, FATE used all of its resources to try and keep the timeline stable (such that humans would remain in existence). This recquired quite a bit of forcing people to do as they were told, so FATE becomes an oppressive figure out of necessity. Considering that as soon as FATE's plans are defeated, the Planet itself revolts and tries to kill everyone, its motives were actually pretty noble for an AI.
Time Devourer - 2/10 Is some weird combination of Lavos, Schala, and the Dragons... and it makes no sense no matter how hard I think about it or how many explanations I read. CC was -almost- understandable before this thing appeared.
Solt & Peppor - 6/10 Most amusing tutorials ever. They are just over-the-top enough to make me like them more than Magus' flunkies.
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Lunar: The Silver Star / Silver Star Story Complete:
Royce: 3/10. Vaguely worthless. Cool design though.
Phacia: 3/10. Eh, inoffensive.
Xenobia: 2/10. Does the "I loooove the main villain" thing which I hate. Goddamnit Japan.
Ghaleon: 1/10. His motivation is just terrible. I guess I hate creepy stalker villains, but him spouting about ALTHENA SHOULDN'T LEAVE US while going into "destroy the world" mode was one of the most headdesk-inducing things an RPG villain has ever done. The writers seemed to want him to be both sympathetic and a baby-eater at the same time. Does not work.
One of my favourite villain casts ever~
Lunar 2: Eternal Blue / Complete:
White Knight Leo: Pass. Love him, but not... especially villainous. He does the conflicted thing decently though.
Lunn: 1/10. Fails. See Crystalgate.
Borgan: 5/10. Ugly, but decent enough. Made less of an impact on me than I feel he should.
Mauri: 3/10. For some reason I just don't like Mauri much. She had potential to be stylish but they chickified her too badly while failing to make me feel for her. I cared about her because Ronfar did and Ronfar was cool, though.
False Althena: 5/10. I like her in the DL and I like that she has no name. Otherwise... works okay.
Ghaleon: 8/10. I like Cmdr's rant here. Basically I think this was an excellent redemption for Ghaleon, something that I think the dude badly needed. They avoided carpetting over his evil, but still showed convincingly how he'd adjusted his views. And the adjustment seemed reasonable. Plus style points. He always had these, but I can appreciate them more when it's not being held back by fail.
Zophar: 7/10. Very solid, threatening antagonist. No real depth, but he doesn't need it.
Chrono Trigger:
Slash: 4/10. Sir Slush! Bonus point for 80's rock reference.
Flea: 5/10. Trannies are funnier. Above bonus point.
Ozzie: 7/10. Gets owned by a cat. If you don't like that, you have no soul.
Magus: 9/10. Magus is simply the best villain on the SNES. I really, really like how he joins the PCs to get what he wants; he doesn't suddenly reform or anything. He's neither as bad as you first expect or as good as you expect for a PC; he's deliciously grey. He makes plenty of mistakes (he repeatedly underestimates Lavos) but he works with a convincing motivation and effective pragmatism.
Azala: 6/10. I liked his (her?) final speech. Just knows how to make an exit, for a secondary villain.
Dalton: 7/10. He was funny. Also one of the earliest examples I can think of for fourth-wall breaking. Reasonably effective, too; he does own the party on two occasions. Too bad he's even better at owning himself!
Queen Zeal: 5/10. Blaaah, needed closure. Liked her otherwise.
Lavos: 6/10. Had presence. Not as big a fan of him as, say, Sin though.
Chrono Cross:
Lynx: 4/10. Meh, found him a mess. What I liked about him is found below.
Harle: ... pass.
Viper: DNR.
Karsh: I like Karsh, but DNR, he's barely a villain.
Zoah: DNR.
Marcy: DNR.
Garai: Definitely DNR.
Dario: DNR.
Miguel: 6/10. Everyone remembers his scene. He has nothing else, but it's something.
Dragons: 1/10. What a mess that shit was. Too bad, making the Dragons work would have done a lot to salvage CC plot.
FATE: 6/10. I didn't think her (his?) name was capitalised? Oh well. Fate's pretty convincing as a manipulator, and a neat extension of Mother Brain in CT. Also she killed Robo! :( :( :(
Time Devourer: 1/10. Fuck you.
Solt: 4/10. Not the best comic villains ever, but don't embarrass themselves (er, as characters).
Peppor: 4/10. See above.
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Chrono Trigger:
Slash - 4/10. Amusing but unimportant minion.
Flea - 5/10. Amusing but unimportant tranny minion.
Ozzie - 4/10. Not quite as amusing but slightly less unimportant part time minion.
Magus - 7/10. Works well enough. Stylish. Gets a point for his music.
Azala - 5/10. Felt like more of a threat the Ozzie and gang. Average works.
Dalton - 2/10. Didn't like this guy at all. And not even in the good "love to hate them" way for villians. He was just a pest.
Queen Zeal - 6/10. Horrible bitch, but a fairly effective one.
Lavos - 7/10. Yeah, Giant Space Flea, but definately felt like an omnipresent threat the whole game. So quite good for a GSF.
Chrono Cross:
Lynx - 8/10. Yeah, see super. Lynx was a pretty competent villian for me.
Harle - Ehhhh, DNR. Not really a villain, I think.
Miguel - Same. A memorable boss fight, but not really a villian.
Dragons - 2/10. These guys were pretty much all dicks. But at least had cool designs.
Fate - No/10. Just No.
Solt & Peppor - 6/10. Honestly funny. They're the standard I hold reoccuring joke bosses to.
Chrono Cross Plot: Q/10. Truely sanity destroying. And Djinn understands it far too well for his own good.
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Oh no! I forgot the most important failures in Chrono Cross! I'm of course talking about Solt and Peppor.
Chrono Trigger:
Slash
Flea
Ozzie
Magus
Azala
Dalton
Queen Zeal
Lavos
Chrono Cross:
Lynx
Harle
Viper
Karsh
Zoah
Marcy
Garai
Dario
Miguel
Dragons
FATE
Time Devourer
Solt & Peppor
If you don't vote on them, you have no soul.
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You forgot Alfador, yet managed to add Peppor and Solt?
God, I really don't know you any more.
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Dude, I can't even... WA5 villains and CC villains in the same thread could cause a singularity.
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Lynx at least had a passing acquaintance with competence.
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It was like watching an average guy take off running at an average speed for an average distance and then about 3/4th of the way through, he had his legs blown to a fine red mist by a GAU-8 minigun.
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Eh, it was around the point Lynx checked out anyway. His not being a complete joke made him a diamond in the rough next to the Time Devourer and the REAL enemies in CC, the plot writers.
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Chrono Trigger:
Slash - 3/10. Least amusing of the group.
Flea - 4.5/10. Half point for being over the top, point for being a silly ass fight, otherwise is Slash.
Ozzie - 6/10. Incompetent, plot owned by cats.
Magus - 8/10. Works well.
Azala - 7/10. Works well mk. 2, needed more screentime.
Dalton - 5/10. Counts for humor, isn't as funny as Ozzie.
Queen Zeal - 3/10. Eh. Brainwashed by Lavos.
Lavos - 7/10. Good Space Flea.
Chrono Cross:
Lynx - 7/10. Pretty competent, yeh.
Harle - 7/10. See Djinn, actually. Stuck out to me as a result.
Viper - 4/10? Eh.
Karsh - 4/10.
Zoah - 3/10.
Marcy - 2/10.
Garai - uhhh fuck. DNR.
Dario - 5/10. I guess.
Miguel - 7/10. Liked his angle, and I don't mind voting on "reluctant people that fight you" at this point.
Dragons - 4/10. Kinda just there.
FATE - 8/10. Yeah, I liked FATE. Odd.
Time Devourer - 3/10. CTDS EXPLAINS HOW SCHALA/LAVOS TEAMED UP yeah doesn't help. Half-DNR, but eh.
Solt & Peppor - 4/10. Decent recurring idiots.
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Did the writers all kill themselves after? I doubt they did it out of shame, but they clearly had a lot of self-loathing.
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Chrono Trigger:
Slash- 1/10 is there
Flea- 1/10 is there
Ozzie- 1/10 is there
Magus- 7/10 worked
Azala- 3/10 yeah
Dalton- 2/10 no
Queen Zeal- 5/10 blend but worked
Lavos- 5/10 worked
Chrono Cross:
.......
*Niu's brain epxloded into meat sauce
*The brain explodes even more as Niu sees how Djinn has completly misunderstand CC's plot
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*The brain explodes even more as Niu sees how Djinn has completly misunderstand CC's plot
Djinn is basically just repeating the terrible exposition dumps the game takes on you at the end.
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And here I thought Djinn had somehow made CC plot coherent or something.
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I -could- try to summarize all of CC's plot for you, if you'd like. But I figured the Cliff's Notes version would be more manageable. Seriously, CC plot exists, and with the exception of unstable rules for how Time and Space fractures, it's actually coherent, just terribly convoluted. At least, the American version. There might be things in the Japanese version or in 'extended universe-timanias' that don't fit, but it's surprisingly consistent, despite being a crap idea and not solidifying the rules of Time and Space.
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Chrono Cross plot makes perfect sense until you try to account for Balthasar's "Everything is as I have foreseen". Accounting for that then leads to needing to figure how things like the entire kingdom of Guardia needing to be killed worked into the plan and gets silly.
That said I think you got some of the details wrong. For example, the game explicitly states that FATE completely usurped... gosh I don't remember Serge's father's name. But that his personality was gone by the time of the game, and basically only lasted long enough to get Serge home again before being little more than a meat puppet avatar. Similarly, the Dragon God was a bio computer that had been absorbed entirely by the Time Devourer by the time of the game... come to think of it, it had probably been erased from the time stream after it lost to FATE and subsequently was banished to the negative zone and absorbed there, although this contradicts them still being around for FATE to divide up... eh. Chrono Cross is rife with paradox anyway.
Chrono Trigger:
Slash- 3/10. SIR SLUSH.
Flea- 5/10. Memorable at least.
Ozzie- 6/10. More memorable.
Magus- 8/10. Been hashed over, Lifetime Achievement Award for best villain in a video game to that date, etc.
Azala- 4/10. zzzz
Dalton- 6/10.
Queen Zeal- 4/10.
Lavos- 7/10. Effective at being an unholy threat to all that lives, and... I don't want to go off on a huge tangent, but the short version is that Lavos is the only reason Chrono Trigger's plot is remotely coherent and sensible; they introduce this unstoppable big bad very early, and that gives them an anchor to run off hunting dark wizards and dinosaurs in the same game.
Chrono Cross:
Lynx- 6/10. Eh, he's good at being a credible threat, and I've always had an appreciation for the whole "the villain just STOLE YOUR FUCKING BODY" twist the game pulled off.
Harle- 5/10. Could have been so, so much more. Damned Chrono Cross not doing fucking character writing.
Viper- 4/10. Eh, boring.
Karsh- DNR (5/10)
Zoah- DNR (4/10)
Marcy- DNR. (3/10) I dunno, even when they were out hunting you, the Devas never felt like villains while Viper kinda works as that "token honorable guy that happens to be workign with the villains".
Garai- DNR. (3/10) Eh, angry ghost. Not really a villain.
Dario- DNR. (5/10) Eh, possessed.
Miguel- 3/10. Not much of a villain, but certainly isn't anything ELSE.
Dragons- 5/10. Serge does blunder ever so neatly into their trap.
FATE- 5/10. Weird, weird combo between 0th Law rebellion and actual crazy and I dunno.
Time Devourer- 2/10. See what made Lavos work was being there and threatening the entire game. Ramping it up a notch then text dumping it on you at the last save point does not work.
Solt & Peppor- 5/10. Needs more KETCHOP.
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Was on vacation. Votes may not matter but I like Lunar so will babble about that rather than CT at the moment.
Lunar: The Silver Star / Silver Star Story Complete:
Royce - 8/10. I approve. I hate it when heroes babble about fate, and having the villain be the one yabbering about destiny - followed by you beating her up - yeah, I approve. Also she generally worked otherwise.
Phacia - 5/10. Meh Mind Control + not all evil?! Whatever.
Xenobia - 6/10. Pathetic, but that was the intent, so I can't complain. Ghaleon doesn't love you, sis.
Ghaleon - 9/10. All-around excellent villain, no complaints. More generally his motive is a pretty classic one, and an understandable one - walking away from the benevolent dictator is certainly a risk. A few kinks to keep it from a 10, though (why do they keep kidnapping singers after Quark basically confirms the truth about Luna...?)
Lunar 2: Eternal Blue / Complete:
White Knight Leo - 6/10 / DNR? Good character - probably a 7 - but his time as a villain was not overly distinguished.
Lunn - 1/10. YUCK. Least favorite plot arc in the game. I'm fine with redemption but Lunn is "redeemed" because Jean Beats Him Up and proves that Blue Dragon Kungfu is more powerful. THAT IS NOT REDEMPTION. He switched to Shadow Dragon because "it" was more powerful, and nothing changed when he switched back... which would be fine if the game recognized this, but it treats his conversion as an actual one. Not to mention that his crimes are the worst in the game - kidnapping children to make his own private army? The game totally lets him off the hook. He needed to die, or have a "redemption" more than "Wow, Jean is powerful!"
Borgan - 5/10 - Pathetic, but worked. Though not super-memorable.
Mauri - 2/10 - TEH EVIL POSSESSION / MIND-CONTROL. Also the canon ages here are *yucky* - Ronfar always struck me as an experienced cynic in his early 20s but actually they're 18 or so and were totally in love when they were 12 or something.
False Althena - DNR / 5/10. She exists and is an excuse for a big boss fight.
Ghaleon - 9/10. Didn't like the idea of bringing him back, but it worked. Very nice plot which actually works in retrospect, though obviously having him under "villains" is a bit off when he's working against Zophar the entire time, who needed to do more research on the motives of "ancient Lunarian badguys."
Zophar - 8/10. Now this is how you do your generic evil god out to do evil. 9/10 on style points but his actual plot has some holes and is tied in with (yuck) Lucia plot, docking him a point.
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Chrono Trigger:
Slash - 3/10. Someone to hit.
Flea - 3/10. See Slash. His gimmick didn't do anything for me.
Ozzie - 4/10. Has slightly more purpose than being cannon fodder, but not much. I didn't find him particular funny.
Magus - 8/10. Does really well for what he is and has great style.
Azala - 5/10. Works as a temporary villain.
Dalton - 2/10. Did he have a purpose other than extending the game? A bit annoying as well.
Queen Zeal - 4/10. As Azala she works as a temporary villain, only she left the impression there could have been more to her.
Lavos - 7/10. Not particular interesting, but does a great job at keeping the plot coherent.
Chrono Cross:
Lynx - 8/10. Is a competent villain with great style. I also liked how the game showed the extent of his manipulation. Finding out that the Porre army also regards him highly was just great. I looked forward to piecing together what exactly he was doing and why. Unfortunately, this turned out to lead into the messy part of CC's plot. He could have been a 10/10 villain had CC not decided to be ultra complicated.
Harle - 5/10. Like Lynx she did quite a bit of manipulating, but she didn't seem to do that much really. She was just mysterious and did some things and in the end I didn't really know what she tried to do.
Viper - 4/10. Worked, but should have had more spotlight.
Karsh - DNR. Has more significance as a party member than as an antagonist.
Zoah - DNR.
Marcy - DNR. How did she become a Dragoon Deva or whatever?
Garai - Who? Something with the elite Dragoons group, but I don't remember what.
Dario - He was cursed by the sword, but I'm sure he some other problem as well and I can't remember what it was.
Miguel - 4/10. He appeared, said his lined, fought you and that was it. Still worked for what he was.
Dragons - 2/10. Once upon a time there were humans who committed a most vile sin; they survived when the world wanted them to die. Then things kept going the way the world didn't want it so the world cried foul. To remedy the situation, it summoned evolved dinosaurs who lived like hippies from an alternative time-line. Somehow a bunch of hippies managed to lose against a high tech civilization (who could have guessed) and the dragon, who some how is related to the hippie civilization, was broken into multiple dragons and sealed off. Seriously though, they do have a nice design and they fit into the theme of everyone being manipulative. The backstory behind their existence and their goals really drags them down though.
FATE - 3/10. Not so bad by itself. FATE could have anchored the plot. Problem is, when FATE got into the spotlight, the plot was already rapidly falling apart. Also, let's kill Robo out of nowhere.
Plot Devourer - 0/10. Shouldn't have existed. Serves no other purpose than to complicate things.
Solt & Peppor - 5/10. They were funny alright, but not that funny.
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Garai is Glenn and Dario's father. He's not really a villain. You just have to fight his ghost as a boss to get the Einlanzer.
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Looking up on the other comments: Interesting, glad to see Lunn hate is widespread as his plot was throw-things-at-the-wall level when I played Lunar 2. Re Dark Holy Elf's comments on Ghaleon... eh, all I can say is that I interpreted Ghaleon far more politically. He wanted a strong magical ruler, basically, and his first choice was actually *himself*.... he was just broad-minded enough to prefer a revived Althena as second choice after you beat him up, which also would fulfill his aims. Admittedly some of the baby-eating was over-the-top (the Grindery and the mass destruction from doing the magic vacuum quickly), but not really the first half of the game - if you're trying to conquer the world, you need to take care of the superheroes first.
Chrono Trigger:
Slash, Flea - 6/10. Passable comic relief villains.
Ozzie - 7/10. OWNED BY CAT. Funny.
Magus - 9/10. Good stuff, see what others have written. A nicely grey dark horse. Admittedly I'm a little unclear as to the advantages from pressing the war on Guardia in 600 AD with regard to the Lavos stuff, but overall nicely done.
Azala - 7/10. Decent.
Dalton - 7/10. Also funny.
Queen Zeal - 7/10. A bit pathetic but effective for what she was. I approve.
Lavos - 8/10. Now this is how you do a no-dialogue "entity" villain. But... the future refused to change. EYARRRRRRRRRRIEGHGHGHGHG.
Chrono Cross:
Lynx - 4/10. How exactly did Lynx achieve his goals?! My recollection is that he did the body-switching thing because Serge's DNA was imprinted on the chamber that had the Frozen Flame in the Chronopolis (..right). Fine. So... uh... why does Lynx hang around doing nothing waiting to be a boss at the end of Disc 1 rather than immediately going to Chronopolis and finishing whatever the plan was (insert Frozen Flame into FATE and power it up with more Lavos juice?!)? Uh fail. Not that Serge doesn't run off and open it up himself anyway. Also Djinn, no mind control? You sure? If FATE reprogrammed his appearance to look all scary to Serge, I kind of assumed he'd pretty well become FATE's slave in general. Since FATE isn't shy about doing that and they have blather about how the savepoints are mind-controlling the inhabitants of El Nido to never leave (how did Porre even find out about the place if no one ever returns? And will they ever find out what happened to their army that never comes back?).
For all that criticism the body-switch then beat you up and steal your friends trick was pretty cool (and only Being the Main Character saved Serge).
Harle - 4/10? Uh another villain who kinda likes the hero but will still transform and fight him anyway. Not sure I agree the intention was to make it an involuntary transformation but the plot badly connects the Dragon God to Harle anyway such that I was confused what the heck happened to Harle when I played through the game originally. Ugh.
Viper & Dragoons - 6/10. Sure they were okay.
Garai - DNR
Dario - I forget his plot aside from "possessed by Mastermune which is now EVIL."
Miguel - DNR. Confused as to why he fights you at all, really, aside from usual video-game logic of needing a boss fight.
Dragons - 3/10. Meh.
FATE - 6/10. Cooler than the Dragons at least - I like the idea that "Sure, Lavos wants to eat humanity, but that means preserve it for most of the timeline at least! Lavos is humanity's ally!"
Time Devourer - DNR / 5/10. The fact that you're not supposed to kill the final boss gets huge credit, but ultimately TD is a minor sidestory - he's not even devouring Time, right? Just your random shard o' Lavos and Schala chillin' together which you can go save Schala from. Right.
Solt & Peppor - DNR, nice try Djinn. Not even particularly memorable comic relief shmucks.
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The CC plot....
It really starts with Gash trying to kill Time Devour.
So he purposely created the Time Crash and drag the Dragons in from a parallel world.
This is the most fundamental step he needs to take in order to collect all the materials he need to destroy Time Devourer...... just this makes no sense. As he has the resource to do the same WITHOUT causing the Time Crush and achieve the same effect. This is why I refuse to think of CC, the thing is incoherent since the point one. Then rest of his xanatos rollercoster that is the CC main game makes even less sense as.... most of it really has no effect on getting what he wants.
While FATE is just a stupid bitch who is jealous of human so she wants to free herself from her limiters and take over.
Dragon Gods after getting defeated by FATE, got divided, and Dinopolis sealed away, their central consciousness contacted with Time Devourer. Time Devourer has the ability to assimilate anything that contains great amount of negative emotion and thus absorbed the Dragon God. Then from that point on, the Dragons are acting simply for their revenge.
As why FATE consider Serge dangerous.... Serge being an arbiter, thus a Chrono Trigger, has the ability to resolve conflicting lives . But the resolution itself is not certain. If the arbiter, which is meant to become one with the Time Devourer cannot neutralize Time Devourer's conflict with other lives when they unites, the resolution well be in Time Devoruer's favor, then the alien darkness shall devour the the dreams of all times. In the other words, as long as arbiter does not exist, the full awakening of the Time Devourer can be delayed indefinitely.
And finally... I have completly NO FUCKING IDEA on what the fuck Dead Sea is about and what purpose does it serve.
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If the arbiter, which is meant to become one with the Time Devourer cannot neutralize Time Devourer's conflict with other lives when they unites, the resolution well be in Time Devoruer's favor, then the alien darkness shall devour the the dreams of all times. In the other words, as long as arbiter does not exist, the full awakening of the Time Devourer can be delayed indefinitely.
What is this I don't even
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As why FATE consider Serge dangerous.... Serge being an arbiter, thus a Chrono Trigger, has the ability to resolve conflicting lives . But the resolution itself is not certain. If the arbiter, which is meant to become one with the Time Devourer cannot neutralize Time Devourer's conflict with other lives when they unites, the resolution well be in Time Devoruer's favor, then the alien darkness shall devour the the dreams of all times. In the other words, as long as arbiter does not exist, the full awakening of the Time Devourer can be delayed indefinitely.
.... oooooooohh. God, why the fuck wasn't this made explicit in the game. Makes infinity times more sense now. Was Serge always possessed of this ability, or was it granted him by his contact with the Frozen Flame? I mean, I can't... imagine a piece of Lavos granting that power, but on the other hand I can't imagine the Chrono Cross writers making the simple, makes-things-make-more-sense decision.
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Chrono Trigger:
Slash 2/10 - Gimmick.
Flea 2/10 - Gimmick.
Ozzie 3/10 - Gimmick.
Magus 8/10. Magus really works for what he is.
Azala 4/10. Rawr.
Dalton - 1/10. Putz.
Queen Zeal - 5/10 Eh.
Lavos - 8/10. He has menace, which is rare for his type.
Chrono Cross:
No votes, but how the FUCK do you screw up CT's plot to this degree? HOW!?
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The CC plot....
It really starts with Gash trying to kill Time Devour.
So he purposely created the Time Crash and drag the Dragons in from a parallel world.
This is the most fundamental step he needs to take in order to collect all the materials he need to destroy Time Devourer...... just this makes no sense. As he has the resource to do the same WITHOUT causing the Time Crush and achieve the same effect. This is why I refuse to think of CC, the thing is incoherent since the point one. Then rest of his xanatos rollercoster that is the CC main game makes even less sense as.... most of it really has no effect on getting what he wants.
While FATE is just a stupid bitch who is jealous of human so she wants to free herself from her limiters and take over.
Dragon Gods after getting defeated by FATE, got divided, and Dinopolis sealed away, their central consciousness contacted with Time Devourer. Time Devourer has the ability to assimilate anything that contains great amount of negative emotion and thus absorbed the Dragon God. Then from that point on, the Dragons are acting simply for their revenge.
As why FATE consider Serge dangerous.... Serge being an arbiter, thus a Chrono Trigger, has the ability to resolve conflicting lives . But the resolution itself is not certain. If the arbiter, which is meant to become one with the Time Devourer cannot neutralize Time Devourer's conflict with other lives when they unites, the resolution well be in Time Devoruer's favor, then the alien darkness shall devour the the dreams of all times. In the other words, as long as arbiter does not exist, the full awakening of the Time Devourer can be delayed indefinitely.
And finally... I have completly NO FUCKING IDEA on what the fuck Dead Sea is about and what purpose does it serve.
The game makes more sense without the original writers telling us what they meant. I think I preferred not knowing this. The US release of the game was at least mostly self-contained. Now it is all messed up.
Dammit Japan.
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... wait. duh. This makes even more sense now. Uncertainty principle. Serge is the observer who, by observing, determines reality. From among uncertain results, his decisions are the concrete reality. When the timeline is restored, it is the reality he remembers that remains because what is hinges on what he observes. The assassin of those times he does not see. The trigger which ends the planet's dreaming and allows it to be born.
So the goal was never to save Schala, to prevent the dream devourer from coming to be. It was to allow Serge, the one who exited time and space, to see many different paths, and in so doing choose the correct one that would lead to the planet being born.
*shakes head* Man, Kato. your writing does not back up your vision at all.
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If that is what being a Chrono Trigger means, then the CC plot was actually better off with the horrid in-game mishmash as opposed to whatever CK just said.
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It's okay, Dhyer, according to CC plot, if you change a timeline, people from the erased future will simply travel back in time to assassinate you and undo it all anyway (So technically CT never happened?). So Serge will be getting an assassin in the mail very soon. >.>;;
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You know what I just realized? Chrono Cross is the Super Mario Brothers movie. SMB is a light-hearted game about two charming plumbers with mad hops saving a princess through a lot of colorful scenery. SMB: The Movie was some idiots trying to turn it in to a dark and edgy Blade Runner clone.
Chrono Trigger was a mostly light-hearted game about having adventures through interesting locales with an underlying message that people can change anything if they really try. Chrono Cross is a terrible mishmash of ideas that try to be edgy and thought-provoking, but really come off as self-hating and incomprehensible.
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... wait. duh. This makes even more sense now. Uncertainty principle. Serge is the observer who, by observing, determines reality. From among uncertain results, his decisions are the concrete reality. When the timeline is restored, it is the reality he remembers that remains because what is hinges on what he observes. The assassin of those times he does not see. The trigger which ends the planet's dreaming and allows it to be born.
So the goal was never to save Schala, to prevent the dream devourer from coming to be. It was to allow Serge, the one who exited time and space, to see many different paths, and in so doing choose the correct one that would lead to the planet being born.
*shakes head* Man, Kato. your writing does not back up your vision at all.
You have the order wrong.
Gash is trying to save Schala, but to do so requires getting rid of Time Devoruer. To get rid off Time Devourer needs an Arbiter. And creating an Arbiter requires Frozen Flame. Then the Aribter must have the ability to resolve Time Dveourer's conflict with the world, and that requires Chrono Cross.
And you give the arbiter a bit too much credit. He does not have the power to resolve reality but only life. But if he fail to neutralize the life that is Time Devourer, the reality is doomed when the the darkness devourers the dreams of all times.
Schala was a pesudo arbiter in the first place due to her high compatbility with the Dream Stone. When she got trapped into the dark side of time when Lavos went ramapge in the Under Sea Palace, and failed to neutralize all the life that was blown in there by Lavos (and eventually Lavos itself), the Time Devoruer we see was born.
To put it simply, Time Devourer is the product of Lavos and an arbiter that can't resolve the conflict towards a harmonious state. (Which is why Chrono Cross is necesary. It gurantees a harmonious resolution)
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Chrono Trigger:
Slash- 2/10
Flea- 2/10
Ozzie- 6/10
Magus- 10/10
Azala- 5/10
Dalton- 8/10
Queen Zeal- 4/10
Lavos- 8/10
Chrono Cross:
You know I am just not going to vote on this.
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... wait. duh. This makes even more sense now. Uncertainty principle. Serge is the observer who, by observing, determines reality. From among uncertain results, his decisions are the concrete reality. When the timeline is restored, it is the reality he remembers that remains because what is hinges on what he observes. The assassin of those times he does not see. The trigger which ends the planet's dreaming and allows it to be born.
So the goal was never to save Schala, to prevent the dream devourer from coming to be. It was to allow Serge, the one who exited time and space, to see many different paths, and in so doing choose the correct one that would lead to the planet being born.
*shakes head* Man, Kato. your writing does not back up your vision at all.
You have the order wrong.
Gash is trying to save Schala, but to do so requires getting rid of Time Devoruer. To get rid off Time Devourer needs an Arbiter. And creating an Arbiter requires Frozen Flame. Then the Aribter must have the ability to resolve Time Dveourer's conflict with the world, and that requires Chrono Cross.
And you give the arbiter a bit too much credit. He does not have the power to resolve reality but only life. But if he fail to neutralize the life that is Time Devourer, the reality is doomed when the the darkness devourers the dreams of all times.
Schala was a pesudo arbiter in the first place due to her high compatbility with the Dream Stone. When she got trapped into the dark side of time when Lavos went ramapge in the Under Sea Palace, and failed to neutralize all the life that was blown in there by Lavos (and eventually Lavos itself), the Time Devoruer we see was born.
To put it simply, Time Devourer is the product of Lavos and an arbiter that can't resolve the conflict towards a harmonious state. (Which is why Chrono Cross is necesary. It gurantees a harmonious resolution)
Now I'm just curious where any of this information actually comes from. If this is all Ultimania stuff, then I can accept it as the normal 'stuff we forgot to mention in-game' crap that games like SaGaF are so fond of. But if this is somehow actually supposed to be synthesized from the information given to us in-game, then I'm going to have a hard time sleeping at night for a day or two.
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I've been taking Niu's information with a grain of salt since I found out all that stuff about Edgar and Sabin he posted was from a doujinshi by Soraya Saga titled "Marriage of Figaro: Tales of the Desert" that says in the front of the book that it's not canon. So it could be more of that.
Either way, that's the most shit plot I've ever seen.
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You know what I just realized? Chrono Cross is the Super Mario Brothers movie. SMB is a light-hearted game about two charming plumbers with mad hops saving a princess through a lot of colorful scenery. SMB: The Movie was some idiots trying to turn it in to a dark and edgy Blade Runner clone.
Chrono Trigger was a mostly light-hearted game about having adventures through interesting locales with an underlying message that people can change anything if they really try. Chrono Cross is a terrible mishmash of ideas that try to be edgy and thought-provoking, but really come off as self-hating and incomprehensible.
If that were true, CC would be campier. At least the SMB Movie has Dennis Hopper hamming it up with PLUMBBERRRSSSS! and the Bob-Omb scene. CC has... an accent generator.
On second thought that is arguably rather campy. Just depends on your taste in camp, I guess.
That said the comparison is an amusing one.
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I've been taking Niu's information with a grain of salt since I found out all that stuff about Edgar and Sabin he posted was from a doujinshi by Soraya Saga titled "Marriage of Figaro: Tales of the Desert" that says in the front of the book that it's not canon. So it could be more of that.
Either way, that's the most shit plot I've ever seen.
For someone who can dsicover the existence of that doujin, you knows quite little.
Did you know I leave out the parts hat exist ONLY in that doujin in that article?
Now, see if you can find my sources now.
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I've been taking Niu's information with a grain of salt since I found out all that stuff about Edgar and Sabin he posted was from a doujinshi by Soraya Saga titled "Marriage of Figaro: Tales of the Desert" that says in the front of the book that it's not canon. So it could be more of that.
Either way, that's the most shit plot I've ever seen.
For someone who can dsicover the existence of that doujin, you knows quite little.
Did you know I leave out the parts hat exist ONLY in that doujin in that article?
Now, see if you can find my sources now.
It's not the first time that non-canon material was repeated in a tertiary source because of the author's connection to the original company. No need to be butthurt.
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You have the order wrong.
Gash is trying to save Schala, but to do so requires getting rid of Time Devoruer. To get rid off Time Devourer needs an Arbiter. And creating an Arbiter requires Frozen Flame. Then the Aribter must have the ability to resolve Time Dveourer's conflict with the world, and that requires Chrono Cross.
And you give the arbiter a bit too much credit. He does not have the power to resolve reality but only life. But if he fail to neutralize the life that is Time Devourer, the reality is doomed when the the darkness devourers the dreams of all times.
For the first, well... as in all things Chrono Cross, it would be simpler and flow more elegantly if you did it in reverse, so I suppose I'm not surprised.
For the latter... hmmm. That makes sense, but I think that, in the context of this universe, even that more limited ability still has immense implications, because on the whole the Chrono universe is one in which the value of each individual life means a great deal; Schala's philosphical rant at the end is evidence enough of this.
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I've been taking Niu's information with a grain of salt since I found out all that stuff about Edgar and Sabin he posted was from a doujinshi by Soraya Saga titled "Marriage of Figaro: Tales of the Desert" that says in the front of the book that it's not canon. So it could be more of that.
Either way, that's the most shit plot I've ever seen.
For someone who can dsicover the existence of that doujin, you knows quite little.
Did you know I leave out the parts hat exist ONLY in that doujin in that article?
Now, see if you can find my sources now.
It's not the first time that non-canon material was repeated in a tertiary source because of the author's connection to the original company. No need to be butthurt.
You still didn't kno wmy point do you?
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I could say the same to you, I suppose.
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Does CC even have an Ultimania-type publication?
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Yes. It's the source of Niu's
powers melancholy.
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Very much so, and it has turned CC into an even more incoherent mass then it already is.... what it basically tells you is that CC's main game is pointless and serve no purpose. In the end, CC plot only worth 4 pages of technical babble....
I could say the same to you, I suppose.
Then I'll be blunt. You have falsely accused me of using non official materials as my sources for my topic. When one of the reasons that I have start writing the fact center so people can distinguish what has the official seal of approval and what does not.
And you dare to accuse me of using doujinshi as my source only because it based off the FF Colosseum. This is nothing but an insult to my writing ethics.
I highly recommend you do your home work and look up FF Colosseum Vol.5 and Vol.15 before you speak out anything baseless and ignorant .
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So in conclusion I'm sticking to Serge's plot being *totally unconnected* with this Arbiter / Time Devourer nonsense. Serge beat up the Dragon God to save humanity from naturey-destruction, then got told by ghosts of characters from Chrono Trigger killed off-screen for no damn good reason to go clean up an unrelated mess wherein their friend got merged with a shard of Lavos, and Serge said "sure you're dead so I guess I'll do."
This may not be what the creators intended but it hurts my head less.
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Now I'm just curious where any of this information actually comes from. If this is all Ultimania stuff, then I can accept it as the normal 'stuff we forgot to mention in-game' crap that games like SaGaF are so fond of. But if this is somehow actually supposed to be synthesized from the information given to us in-game, then I'm going to have a hard time sleeping at night for a day or two.
Does CC even have an Ultimania-type publication?
Yes. It's the source of Niu's powers melancholy.
Very much so, and it has turned CC into an even more incoherent mass then it already is.... what it basically tells you is that CC's main game is pointless and serve no purpose. In the end, CC plot only worth 4 pages of technical babble....
Well then, at least that means I can sleep easily. I kind of want a Niu's Fact Center on CC now since this information isn't available anywhere in the English-speaking community.
CC Plot might be ARGH, but it would be nice to have the answers more accessible.
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Results!
Chrono Trigger:
Slash 2.846153846 (13 rankers)
Flea 3.423076923 (13 rankers)
Ozzie 4.307692308 (13 rankers)
Magus 7.75 (12 rankers, 1 DNR)
Azala 4.875 (13 rankers)
Dalton 3.846153846 (13 rankers)
Queen Zeal 4.461538462 (13 rankers)
Lavos 6.865384615 (13 rankers)
Chrono Cross:
Lynx 6.055555556 (9 rankers)
Harle 5.6 (5 rankers, 2 DNR)
Viper 3.857142857 (7 rankers, 1 DNR)
Karsh 5 (3 rankers, 5 DNR)
Zoah 4.333333333 (3 rankers, 5 DNR)
Marcy 4 (3 rankers, 5 DNR)
Garai 3 (2 rankers, 4 DNR)
Dario 6 (3 rankers, 5 DNR)
Miguel 5.2 (5 rankers, 3 DNR)
Dragons 3 (8 rankers)
FATE 6 (6 rankers, 1 DNR)
Time Devourer 1.875 (8 rankers)
Solt&Peppor 5 (7 rankers, 1 DNR)
Chrono Trigger got a lot of Feedback, I was surprised how low Magus' underlings scored, they always seemed pretty popular. I guess popularity doesn't make them objectively high ranking villains, though.
CC was a trainwreck, but it got more response than anything since Wild Arms. I guess that's a point in its favor, though it ended up with a lot of DNR-ing for most of the options. Only the Dragoons + Garai/Dario got enough to get dropped though.
I guess I should try to finish up the SNES era stuff first, despite my jump into Lunar. Let's see... Earthbound, MarioRPG, Secret of Mana, Tales of Phantasia, Fire Emblem (technically NES, so I guess we have our winner!), SaGa (do I even want to try to rank FFL villains? Should I bother with JPN-only Romancing SaGa?), and the Genesis RPGs.
Remind me if I've forgotten any key oldschool stuff.
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Rudra!
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Top ten highest ranked villains:
1. Delita(FFT): 9.04, 12 rankers. (3 DNR)
2. Irving Vold Valeria(WA2): 9.00, 16 rankers.
3. Dycedarg(FFT): 7.86, 15 rankers.
4. Charlton(WAXF): 7.82, 11 rankers.
5. Magus(CT): 7.75, 12 rankers. (1 DNR)
6. Bangaa(FFTA2): 7.66, 3 rankers.
7. Jecht(FFX): 7.30, 15 rankers. (3 DNR)
8. Katrina: 7.22, 9 rankers. (1 DNR)
9. Reno(FF7): 7.21, 21 rankers.
10. Ghaleon(Lunar1): 7.11, 9 rankers.
11. Liz: 7.04, 12 rankers.
Top ten lowest ranked villains
1. Kresnik(WA4): 1.47, 13 rankers. (6 DNR)
2. Volsung(WA5): 1.64, 14 rankers. (1 DNR)
3. Time Devourer(CC): 1.875, 8 rankers.
4. Zemus/Zeromus(FF4): 1.88, 17 rankers.
5. Amon(Lufia 1): 2.00, 8 rankers.
6. Lunn(Lunar2): 2.11, 9 rankers.
7. Necron(FF9): 2.13, 22 rankers.
8. Zoma (DW3/DQ3): 2.25, 4 rankers.
9. Amon(Lufia 2): 2.26, 15 rankers.
10. Daos(Lufia 1): 2.31, 8 rankers.
11. Adel(FF8): 2.33, 18 rankers. (1 DNR)
Victims of Fate:
Baigan: DNR (2.2, 10 voters.)
Jenova: DNR (3.00, 12 rankers.)
Edea: DNR (4.8, 10 rankers.)
Beatrix: DNR (5.83, 10 rankers.)
Golagros: DNR (4.5, 6 rankers.)
Bart: DNR (3.2, 5 rankers.)
Celia: DNR (4.00, 7 rankers.)
Lede: DNR. (4.28, 7 rankers.)
High Priest Funeral: DNR (3.66, 6 rankers.)
Kletian: DNR (3.42, 7 rankers.)
Cid: DNR. (4.00, 3 rankers.)
Neukhia: DNR. (4.00, 2 rankers.)
Luceid: DNR. (2.25, 12 rankers.)
Nazeby: DNR. (1.40, 5 rankers.)
Hargon: DNR (2.5, 2 rankers.)
Malroth: DNR (1.5, 2 rankers.)
Kandar: DNR (1.5, 2 rankers.)
Saro's Shadow: DNR (2.00, 2 rankers.)
White Knight Leo: DNR (6.25, 4 rankers.)
Games ranked:
FF1, FF2, FF3, FF4, FF5, FF6, FF7, FF8, FF9, FF10, FF12, FFT, FFTA, FFTA2, WA1, WA2, WA3, WA4, WA5, WA:XF, Lufia 1, Lufia 2, Lufia 3, DW1, DW2, DW3, DW4/DQ4, Lunar1, Lunar2, CT, CC.
And now Fire Emblem. Since FE is speshul with its English releases, I'm not sure which games are prevalent enough in fan-translated form to warrant being on this list. If someone wants to chime in on that, please do so. I'm assuming that FE6 is fine, but I don't know about the FEs from 2-5.
Fire Emblem 1/3/11: Dragon of Darkness and Sword of Light / Mystery of the Emblem / Shadow Dragon
Minerva
Camus
Michalis
Gharnef
Medeus
Fire Emblem 6: Sword of Seals
Zephiel
Yahn
Idoun
Fire Emblem 7: The Blazing Sword
Batta
Lundgren
Linus
Lloyd
Ursula
Jaffar
Brendon
Jerme
Sonia
Limstella
Ephidel
Nergal
Dragon
Only three at a time for this update. If I've missed anyone of drastic importance, let me know and I'll add them in. You have a week, enjoy~
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Djinn: Minor note, but you don't need to have so many decimal points in your scores. Frankly anything after the first (tenths) decimal place is likely noise anyway, with the low number of votes, so 2 places should be more than sufficient. ;-)
Also, I'd be minorly opposed to doing too much chronological order - a mix is probably good so that people who "started late" aren't entirely left out.
Fire Emblem 1/3/11: Dragon of Darkness and Sword of Light / Mystery of the Emblem / Shadow Dragon
Minerva - DNR / 5/10. This is character worth, not villain worth; as a villain she's non-existent (random boss in one mission who attacks you but thankfully is weak to Merric? After that she's on your side) but she has one pretty decent line, which is better than most FESD characters (the bit about wanting to have a Macedonian there in the invading army to "set things right" so the country can feel good about itself no matter who wins. Not that Michalis has really done anything bad.).
Camus - 2/10 - Nonexistent. Memorable gameplay badass, at least! You can spare his life but it doesn't seem to change anything so I guess the game wants Marth to spite Nyna's request to spare him so that Marth can steal Camus's spear. As I was never given much reason to like Nyna, I'm okay with that.
Michalis - 3/10. Ambitious, killed dad, classic setup. But needed some actual lines to be a Dycedarg.
Gharnef - 2/10 - EEEEEEBIL SORCEROR WITH MIND CONTROL. Fail. Evades being a 1/10 for decent music and that's it.
Medeus - Okay I need to still play the last two missions techncially but I can't see the score being good since he's basically done nothing up to that point.
Fire Emblem 7: The Blazing Sword
Batta - Don't remember.
Lundgren - 6/10 - Classic villain archetype. The line about forcing poison down Lyn's granddad throat was cute. Didn't do anything special with it but didn't screw it up either.
Black Fang (Linus, Lloyd, Ursula, Brendon, Jerme) - 5/10. Effective enough at the "assassin organization taken over for evil purposes" thing and having SOME sympathy while also being menacing.
Jaffar - 6/10 - Good presence as a villain.
Sonia - 7/10 - The seductress, another classic archetype (FE likes these, a way to make a character resonate fast with minimal setup), also with the "angling for more power" element. She was pretty good, actually, her bonus mission and interactions with Nino were creepy.
Limstella - 5/10 - Served her place, which was "emotionless puppet boss." Not a whole lot you can do with that.
Ephidel - Eh... DNR.
Nergal - 3/10 - CHECK OUT MY EYE. Kinda lameass evil plot, his henchmen were better than he himself was.
Dragon - DNR, berserk boss, like judging Griever.
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Djinn: Minor note, but you don't need to have so many decimal points in your scores. Frankly anything after the first (tenths) decimal place is likely noise anyway, with the low number of votes, so 2 places should be more than sufficient. ;-)
True, but I'm just copy/pasting it from my big ol' spreadsheet of fun and truancating it is extra work.
Also, I'd be minorly opposed to doing too much chronological order - a mix is probably good so that people who "started late" aren't entirely left out.
It's already not in full Chronological order since I'm basically taking it a whole -series- at a time, but with the earliest chronological release determining when I post what. Following Dune's example, and there's no real reason to change it, unless you just -really- want Shadow Hearts and Disgaea to be voted on sooner or something?
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Fire Emblem 1/3/11: Dragon of Darkness and Sword of Light / Mystery of the Emblem / Shadow Dragon
Minerva - DNR, see Snowfire.
Camus - (FE)1/10
Michalis - (FE)1/10
Gharnef - (FE)1/10
Medeus - (FE)1/10
Fire Emblem 6: Sword of Seals
Narshen: Exists to be owned, but succeeds at actually existing. 2/10
Murdoch: Rar loyalty. 2/10
Brunya: Wants in Zephiel's pants? I dunno, it's been a while. 2/10
Zephiel: Luca Blight trading raw bloodthirst for a somewhat better reason to go nutso. Works well enough for FE, I suppose. 4/10
Yahn: Who?
Idoun: Meh. 2/10.
Fire Emblem 7: The Blazing Sword
Batta - You have Batta here but not Glass, whose name is feared by the gods, Djinn? FOR SHAME. At any rate, amusing for a FE boss, but waaaaaaay too minor to seriously care about. DNR (1/10).
Lundgren - LOOK AT ME I AM EVIL AND WANT THE THRONE. 1/10, come back when you're less boring.
Linus/Lloyd - The Reed brothers were kinda cool I guess? They did have a degree of sympathy going on but eh. 4/10.
Ursula - Ursula was just boring, on the other hand. 1/10
Jaffar - Rar I am heartless killer wait must protect innocent little girl argh. Meh, 2/10.
Brendon - More or less exists solely as Sonia's plaything. Meeeeh. Pass.
Jerme - DNR (1/10). He's there and you hit him. Also, you forgot Kenneth.
Sonia - Whee evil slut. 3/10. Needed more screentime to be effective.
Limstella - Puppets have no quintessence. 1/10
Ephidel - Meeeeeh. 1/10
Nergal - Cartoon villain. 1/10.
Dragon - DNR.
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Man, I get that FE villains aren't great, but throwing 1/10s around like that is pretty low, considering that there's no 0/10 option, and not even Necron was ranked below 2. Are the FE villains -really- worse than Necron?
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Djinn: Minor note, but you don't need to have so many decimal points in your scores. Frankly anything after the first (tenths) decimal place is likely noise anyway, with the low number of votes, so 2 places should be more than sufficient. ;-)
True, but I'm just copy/pasting it from my big ol' spreadsheet of fun and truancating it is extra work.
You need better spreadsheet-fu. Use ROUND(NUMBER, 2). If you can't add that to the equation itself, you can just make a new row / column, and then drag the formula along to automatically add it everywhere.
Edit: And Djinn, presumably RC starts with "characters start a 1 and get better with more characterization." Which is a fair enough stance if he's consistently voted this way and dislikes characters without character. (I personally am more your style though, characters start out with about a 5/10 and have to annoy or offend me to push their score lower.)
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Yeah, what Snowfire said. Don't really see a reason to go middle-of-the-road for people who barely exist/have bad characterizations/have crap for motivation/whatever. I make an exception for joke villains but by and large this is pretty much how I've rated villains throughout the topic, so I dunno why you've decided to harp on it now.
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Djinn: Minor note, but you don't need to have so many decimal points in your scores. Frankly anything after the first (tenths) decimal place is likely noise anyway, with the low number of votes, so 2 places should be more than sufficient. ;-)
True, but I'm just copy/pasting it from my big ol' spreadsheet of fun and truancating it is extra work.
You need better spreadsheet-fu. Use ROUND(NUMBER, 2). If you can't add that to the equation itself, you can just make a new row / column, and then drag the formula along to automatically add it everywhere.
Edit: And Djinn, presumably RC starts with "characters start a 1 and get better with more characterization." Which is a fair enough stance if he's consistently voted this way and dislikes characters without character. (I personally am more your style though, characters start out with about a 5/10 and have to annoy or offend me to push their score lower.)
Meh, still more work and it doesn't hurt anything as is.
Yeah, what Snowfire said. Don't really see a reason to go middle-of-the-road for people who barely exist/have bad characterizations/have crap for motivation/whatever. I make an exception for joke villains but by and large this is pretty much how I've rated villains throughout the topic, so I dunno why you've decided to harp on it now.
Not harping, sorry if it came out that way. It just struck me since it was nothing but ones. When you see a whole game with nothing but ones, it triggers a 'what, was he just christmas-tree-ing the test?' reaction. I have no problem with how you vote, it just seemed worth asking about.
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Adding a few FE6 ones, since FE6 plot > FE7 plot and all. Everyone before Zeph is a write-in.
Fire Emblem 6: Sword of Seals
Narshen: 6/10. He has that beautiful scene where he sets up his underling to get owned in Chapter 13, and otherwise is just a reasonably fun scumbag.
Murdoch: 3/10. Rar I am loyal. He is likable enough but yeah.
Brenya: 3/10. Different angle from Murdoch at least, but ultimately similar.
Zephiel: 8/10. Probably my favourite FE villain. His motives are pretty insane, but I really bought into how he came to them. His Dad was a real bastard. And it's not just a one-shot "he did something horrible once" which RPGs usually fall back on (hi, Agares) but a systematic emotional abuse of the child Zephiel. Put that together with his country's history, and boom, you have someone who wants to reverse past racial injustices because of his terrible experience with humanity. It works.
Yahn: 2/10. Ugh. Didn't like how the game tried to randomly make him a focus for one chapter.
Idoun: 4/10. Kinda like the plot surrounding her, but needed better execution (also a badass boss fight).
Fire Emblem 7: The Blazing Sword
Batta: DNR, but awesome.
Lundgren: 4/10. Reasonably convincing scumbag. He just had so much... presence, for his 10 chapters. Most FE villains don't get nearly that much.
Linus: 1/10.
Lloyd: 2/10. The Reed brothers are weeeeiiiird. The first one is fine. The second one is a miserable failure of a human being whom the game seems to try to glorify anyway. Depending on which route you do, "second one" varies, but yeah. I will give Lloyd +1 for having style, and because I think the game works better if Linus is the second one anyway - it fits the one-cutscene personalities the two have before the split better.
Ursula: 4/10. At least somewhat intimidiating even as she does the lapdog thing.
Jaffar: 2/10. Blargh.
Brendon: DNR.
Jerme: DNR. Plotless midboss.
Sonia: 3/10. Pretty mockable I guess, but... eh.
Limstella: 6/10. Style points. I will be generous here.
Ephidel: 5/10. He was pretty effective, and had an unexpected exit.
Nergal: 1/10. Grah. Terrible cartoon villain, basically prevented the game from having a good plot, not that it would have anyway.
Dragon: No. (DNR)
Write-in: Darin: Because he has more plot than the Black Fang members at least. 5/10, his RULER OF THE WORLD insanity was amusing.
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Fire Emblem 6: Sword of Seals
Narshen (write-in): 5/10
Zephiel: 6/10
Yahn: 2/10
Idoun: 3/10
Fire Emblem 7: The Blazing Sword
Batta DNR
Lundgren: 6/10
Linus: 2/10
Lloyd: 4/10
Ursula: 3/10
Jaffar: 5/10
Brendon DNR
Jerme DNR
Sonia: 4/10
Limstella: 5/10
Ephidel: 6/10
Nergal: 4/10
Dragon DNR
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Pretty much stealing NEB's votes, but slightly modifying his (downward).
Fire Emblem 7: The Blazing Sword
Batta: DNR, but awesome.
Lundgren: 4/10.
Linus: 1/10.
Lloyd: 2/10.
Ursula: 3/10.
Jaffar: 2/10.
Brendon: DNR.
Jerme: DNR.
Sonia: 3/10.
Limstella: 3/10.
Ephidel: 4/10.
Nergal: 1/10.
Dragon: No. (DNR)
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Fire Emblem 1 Shadow Dragon
Minerva- Not a villain
Camus - Not a Villain 1/10 if you must though as he is an idiot unlike Minerva.
Michalis - 3/10 kills father for power and forces his sister Minerva to fight by taking his other sister Maria hostage. True Grust were the ones who had Maria but him and Grust were allies and would Grust have been able to if not for Michalis, I think not. Liked the whole "Your arrows cannot harm me" thing, but sadly doesn't deserve anything above 3.
Gharnef - 6/10 - Old man mage who is evil and does evil shit, well thats not generic at all is it. Well anyway I'll give him a 6 for the simple fact he is the only villain who does anything at all. The others sit on thrones doing nothing.
Medeus - 1/10 Is a Villain who does nothing. Really why was he even in the game? Gharnef should have been the final boss, but I guess Fire Emblem Old man does evil shit would have been a bad title name.
Write ins:
Morzas - 2/10 Kills your mother and boasts about it. Better then his boss.
King Jiol - 5/10 - "I don't want to die!" Has two scenes and this is more then 99% of people in game, giving him a 5 for how pathetic he is after mocking you so much. Also mocks pegasus knights.
Volzhin - 2/10 Writhe in the fires of baloney. Made me laugh and is better then his boss.
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Updating this tomorrow, I guess.
Oh hey, I have votes!
Fire Emblem 1/3/11: Dragon of Darkness and Sword of Light / Mystery of the Emblem / Shadow Dragon
Minerva - 4/10, though I guess DNR. I didn't really feel she was a villain either, but there's so few things in FE1 that are villainy and have faces.
Camus - 5.5/10 Remake version wins award for most-improved character worth. Still not great, but I appreciated the extra lines.
Michalis - 4/10 Not mind-controlled or duped, just looking out for his country's interests. Though he's kind of a bastard about it. Minerva-brother thing was at least resembling development.
Gharnef - 2.5/10 He's the villain that does everything, but he's just even less interesting than the faceless generals and kings. Nergal-light.
Medeus - 4/10 He's a scary dragon. I like scary dragons.
Fire Emblem 6: Sword of Seals
Zephiel - 8/10 See NEB.
Yahn - 5/10 I liked his chapter, it was nice to see the plot finally escalating and Yahn felt like a credible threat.
Idoun - 6/10 Similar to Yahn, only has a cooler backstory.
Fire Emblem 7: The Blazing Sword
Batta - 5/THE BEAST
Lundgren - 5.5/10 I felt his actions made sense, and the way he was presented really made Lyn's chapter into a tight and focused narrative. Not great, but above-average for the whole package of the presentation.
Linus - 4/10
Lloyd - 4/10
Ursula - 3/10
Jaffar - 4.5/10
Brendon - 3.5/10 I liked his creepy mind-controlled scenes.
Jerme - AWESOME/10, DNR.
Sonia - 6/10 Played her archetype well. Scenes with Nino really worked in making FE7 actually feel a little creepy. Manipulating Brendon was a nice touch, and it worked surprisingly well.
Limstella - 4.5/10 Scary enough.
Ephidel - 3/10 Not present enough.
Nergal - 4/10 Really cartoony villain, but I always liked the fact that he -had- a backstory. The way the game decided to hide it actually made it all the more memorable to me, so even though it was a campy backstory, it was fun to see it.
Dragon - 4/10 He's a scary dragon. I like scary dragons.
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And Results! Feel free to keep voting on this. I'll record your voice on my big ol' spreadsheet of fun.
Fire Emblem 1/3/11: Dragon of Darkness and Sword of Light / Mystery of the Emblem / Shadow Dragon
Minerva 4.5 (2 rankers, 3 DNR)
Camus 2.375 (4 rankers)
Michalis 2.75 (4 rankers)
Gharnef 2.875 (4 rankers)
Medeus 2 (3 rankers)
Fire Emblem 6: Sword of Seals
Narshen 4.333333333 (3 rankers)
Murdoch 2.5 (2 rankers)
Brunya 2.5 (2 rankers)
Zephiel 6.5 (4 rankers)
Yahn 3 (3 rankers)
Idoun 3.75 (4 rankers)
Fire Emblem 7: The Blazing Sword
Batta 3 (2 rankers, 4 DNR)
Lundgren 4.416666667 (6 rankers)
Linus 2.833333333 (6 rankers)
Lloyd 3.5 (6 rankers)
Ursula 3.166666667 (6 rankers)
Jaffar 3.583333333 (6 rankers)
Brendon 4.25 (2 rankers, 3 DNR)
Jerme 3 (2 rankers, 5 DNR)
Sonia 4.333333333 (6 rankers)
Limstella 4.083333333 (6 rankers)
Ephidel 3.8 (5 rankers, 1 DNR)
Nergal 2.333333333 (6 rankers)
Dragon 4 (1 ranker, 5 DNR)
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Top ten highest ranked villains:
1. Delita(FFT): 9.04, 12 rankers. (3 DNR)
2. Irving Vold Valeria(WA2): 9.00, 16 rankers.
3. Dycedarg(FFT): 7.86, 15 rankers.
4. Charlton(WAXF): 7.82, 11 rankers.
5. Magus(CT): 7.75, 12 rankers. (1 DNR)
6. Bangaa(FFTA2): 7.66, 3 rankers.
7. Jecht(FFX): 7.30, 15 rankers. (3 DNR)
8. Katrina: 7.22, 9 rankers. (1 DNR)
9. Reno(FF7): 7.21, 21 rankers.
10. Ghaleon(Lunar1): 7.11, 9 rankers.
Top ten lowest ranked villains
1. Kresnik(WA4): 1.47, 13 rankers. (6 DNR)
2. Volsung(WA5): 1.64, 14 rankers. (1 DNR)
3. Time Devourer(CC): 1.875, 8 rankers.
4. Zemus/Zeromus(FF4): 1.88, 17 rankers.
5. Amon(Lufia 1): 2.00, 8 rankers.
6. Medeus (FE11): 2.00, 3 rankers.
7. Lunn(Lunar2): 2.11, 9 rankers.
8. Necron(FF9): 2.13, 22 rankers.
9. Zoma (DW3/DQ3): 2.25, 4 rankers.
10. Amon(Lufia 2): 2.26, 15 rankers.
11. Daos(Lufia 1): 2.31, 8 rankers.
Games ranked:
FF1, FF2, FF3, FF4, FF5, FF6, FF7, FF8, FF9, FF10, FF12, FFT, FFTA, FFTA2, WA1, WA2, WA3, WA4, WA5, WA:XF, Lufia 1, Lufia 2, Lufia 3, DW1, DW2, DW3, DW4/DQ4, Lunar1, Lunar2, CT, CC, FE11, FE6, FE7.
Next is FE8, FE9, and FE10.
Who should we be voting on? Suggestions please.
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FE8:
Glen
Selena
Valter
Caellech
Riev
Lyon
Fomortiis
Glen may not be villainous enough, he never actively antagonises you.
FE9:
Oliver
Petrine
Black Knight
Bryce
Ashnard
FE10:
Jarod
Ludveck
Valtome
Izuka
Lekain
Levail
Zelgius
Dheginsea
Sephiran
Ashera
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This list works for me! Voting lasts a week.
Feel free to send me any votes from the previous session, too, and I'll add them to the spreadsheet. I know that with the mini-meet, maybe less people had a chance to vote.
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FE8:
Glen- 8/10. Too sexy for your shirt.
Selena- 5/10
Valter- 7/10. Luca+
Caellech- 6/10. Awesome name point.
Riev- 2/10. Fails.
Lyon- 10/10. KAWAII!!!
Fomortiis- 0/10. Fails.
FE9:
Oliver- 7/10. Deliciously creepy.
Petrine- 1/10
Black Knight- 3/10
Bryce- DNR
Ashnard- 1/10
FE10:
Jarod- 7/10.
Ludveck- dnr
Valtome- 5/10- Delightfully evil
Izuka- 6/10- Delightfully evil
Lekain- 8.5/10- Delightfully evil
Levail- DNR
Zelgius- 2/10
Dheginsea- 1/10
Sephiran- 1/10
Ashera- no rank.
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FE8:
Glen - DNR. He gets... three scenes I think and his last two are when he considers defecting so... yeah.
Selena - rar my country right or wrong. Fuck. Off. 1/10.
Valter - Baby eating loon. Also about as effective as Judecca. Fail forever, Valter you god damn pansy. 1/10.
Caellech - Barely existed. 1/10.
Riev - Sucks, but fails less at existing. 2/10.
Lyon - DNR. Possession blah blah blah.
Fomortiis - Sucks. 1/10.
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FE8:
Glen - Who? Oh, right, the guy that gets killed... needlessly. Good job! 1/10
Selena - Dame Fluorspar. Eh, I like her but as a villain...? I don't think she really was one, she was just an enemy but one that cared for the people blah blah 3/10
Valter - Hurt Jaegan. This is not a particular feat. Still, 2/10. 1 point for attempting to be badarse, fails for never ascending "crazy killer" status.
Caellech - HURR MY AXE SELL WAIT WHAT MY PLOT IS? 1/10
Riev - Competent. 3/10
Lyon - Yeahwhat? DNR
Fomortiis - Spaceflea status. 2/10
Fire Emblem 8 produced a lot of things, but noteworthy villains it did not produce. Nergal would beat all of them together!
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FE8:
Glen - DNR
Selena - 3/10
Valter - 6/10
Caellech - 2/10
Riev - 4/10
Lyon - 6/10
Fomortiis - 5/10
FE9:
Oliver - 6/10
Petrine - 4/10
Black Knight - 4/10
Bryce - 3/10
Ashnard - 5/10
FE10:
Jarod - 7/10
Ludveck - 6/10
Valtome - 4/10
Izuka - 5/10
Lekain - 7/10
Levail - DNR
Zelgius - 5/10
Dheginsea - 2/10
Sephiran - 4/10
Ashera - 5/10
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FE8:
Glen: Pass
Selena: 2/10. I don't think this was a particularly well-executed version of this trope at all. RAR POINTLESS DEATH FOR HONOUR. Still I like to save my 1's more than Random. <_<
Valter: 7/10. Found him genuinely creepy.
Caellech: 5/10. Had a couple of memorable scenes.
Riev: 3/10. Generically fails.
Lyon: 7/10. I dunno. I have some issues with him, and think he is kinda worthless without playing both paths to see the different sides of him... but well, I did, and I think he ends up a pretty interesting case of possession. It's fun to see him wrestle with the Demon King and it's often unclear who is manipulating who. And you have to feel sorry for the guy.
Fomortiis: Mmmmph. Like how he's tied up with Lyon, but I'm more inclined to rate him as a standalone entity, Rhapthorne style, which makes him suck. Yes, think I will do that. 2/10, eats babies.
FE9:
Oliver: 7/10. Can the world live without his beauty? Stock comedy villain score, bonus points for decent music.
Petrine: 3/10. Would be a 2, but +1 for making the heartless, unredeemable evil general of the four the girl. I think this is about the only game that has done that, ever.
Black Knight: 3/10. Exists, but his Ike plot is kinda stupid.
Bryce: 4/10. Brings about Ashnard's only good scene, that's gotta be something.
Ashnard: 2/10. Sadly Ashnard has a bunch of other scenes and they're pretty much uniformly terrible. His motive is painfully bad, his leadership a joke, and the game excuses him getting away with it because he's THAT DAMN BADASS.
FE10:
Jarod: Okay, time for a rant. RPG villains (besides the comedy type) tend to one of two things: they hench for a bigger bad, or they have grand plans which are, at bare minimum, involve controlling a country (often controlling and/or destroying the world instead). Seriously, I was thinking about this recently, and the exceptions are just way too rare. Jarod is one of the exceptions. He's a soldier and he doesn't take shit from his commanders, but nor does he have any ridiculous, stupid dreams. He doesn't want to be a king or anything ludicrous. He wants to keep living the good life of a soldier. He's a bad man; he pretty much stands in for the bad things soldiers can do. Yet he's pretty real, and the human side of him shines through, and made me care about him even as he inevitably reached his hopeless end. Gives a good last speech, and 1-E is a hell of a fight. 7/10.
Ludveck: Prettyboy political schemer. I kinda liked that he made Elincia firm up her backbone, he's kinda like Marscal Lite in that he knew his actions would give Crimea a stronger ruler either way. 5/10.
Valtome: Ehehehehheehehehehhee. He is creepy and effective enough, but needed a bit more time. I don't really like how he disappears then only returns for a throwaway fight. This is a bad habit the game had, for any villain who made it to part 4. 4/10.
Izuka: I AM EVIL. 5/10 for not being remotely subtle about it and his insane rants being pretty funny. God, what a worthless human being.
Lekain: 7/10. Delightfully evil indeed. They were trying to make him the most wretched human being imaginable. They don't really shy from anything, he is a composite of dozens of horrible traits, willing to do anything to get his power.
Levail: Yeah, DNR. He actually has a fair bit of screentime but he doesn't really do much with it. Besides be pretty and give you a sweet weapon.
Zelgius: 6/10. Much better this game, but still wanted a bit more. His motivations surrounding his Greil obsession and his loyalty to Sephiran become far clearer and more fleshed out. FE9-10 sometimes wave the branded label around without really doing much with it; Zelgius' case made it hit home.
Dheginsea: 2/10. GOLDOA WILL NOT MOVE. The bad voice acting is hilarious, but as a character, failure.
Sephiran: 5/10. The dude's a bit messed up. They didn't quite sell me on his motivations, but they weren't too far from it. Better than Ashnard at least.
Ashera: 4/10. A bit problematic as a messed up avatar of order. Ideas were better than the execution.
Outside a few specific scenes (Zelgius backstory and Lekain's revelling in his evil in particular), Part 4 could have been better written. Nice ideas at least.
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I'm in a post-happy mood today. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeee
FE8:
Glen - DNR
Selena - 3
Valter - 7 (works as an evil bastard.)
Caellech - 5 (At least he looked evil, or sick. Still Worked.)
Riev - 4
Lyon - 0? (Was Lyon evil or was he controlled? Can't remember.)
Fomortiis - 7? (Again this is based on just how evil Lyon really was.)
FE9:
Oliver - 8 (Creepy)
Petrine - 4
Black Knight - 10 (Works better when you include hm from both games.)
Bryce - 1 (Don't reemmber him.)
Ashnard - 5
FE10:
Jarod - 8 (Wish more of the games baddies were as well done as him.)
Ludveck - 2
Valtome - 3
Izuka - 4
Lekain - 3
Levail - 2
Zelgius - 10 (Should have killed more people.)
Dheginsea - 1
Sephiran - 3
Ashera - 2
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FE8:
Glen - DNR
Selena - 2/10. One of the more frustrating villainous types. I'd have been fine with "No! Vigarde's fine, he's the man, he's just in a funny mood!" Selena says she *knows* that Vigarde isn't Vigarde anymore, but loyalty for some reason compels her to follow him. Wouldn't loyalty to the real Vigarde imply the reverse? This is dumb and the plot doesn't seem to realize this.
Valter - 5/10. Eats babies, sure, but decent presence points.
Caellech - 6/10 - His little backstory chat with Joshua was pretty amusing. Ambitious but not exactly malicious guy, works for me.
Riev - 4/10. Generic McGeneric fallen priest.
Lyon - 5/10. The story needed to figure out what the heck it was doing with Lyon. The amount of muddling they do on this makes "is mostly possessed but can sorta fight back and is possessed in a style that is Lyon's" is I guess what we fall back on, but meh. Saved from a 3/10 by his rivalry with Ephraim, where Ephraim was always better than him and he vowed to change that. (And failed, with Ephraim killing him in the end anyway). This was less creepy than his "I've always loved you from afar!" deal with Eirika which doesn't fit terribly well, I feel.
Fomortiis - DNR / 5/10? Generic baby-eater with passable presence.
FE9:
Oliver - 6/10. Amusingly pathetic, but maybe they went a little too far. I was never clear on how this slavery thing was supposed to work - Herons can FLY, does he want to keep them in chains constantly or something?
Petrine - 5/10. Plays her role as villain, nothing special but no problems either.
Black Knight - 6/10. Style points mostly.
Bryce - 4/10. I guess.
Ashnard - 3/10. Laaame motivation that's popular in Japan for some reason. I could have bought racism, I could have bought conquer the world megalomania, but no he just wants to fight fight fight. Whatever. Gets +1 creativity points on his mount / Ena plot, but it's not entirely clear how much of that was his idea.
Also, in the obvious write-in category...
Naesala - 7/10. I'm not a fan of ranking mostly-on-your-side traitors as villains (like Minerva before or Ena in FE9), but Naesala is an out-and-out villain most of the game, and he does not undergo any particular repentance at the end. In fact I'm still not entirely sure why he flips sides, as he was willing to sell Reyson / Leanne into slavery but not kill Reyson? Anyway he's stylish as far as the "amoral mercenary who wants money" goes, and nicely infuriating for the fact that he's ignoring Ashnard's obvious hatred of Laguz but taking his money anyway. I also like his chat with Ashnard if he attacks him, where he offers to join his service again, but only as a ruse to try and get him to drop his guard. Cute. Not to mention that his state-sanction terrorism piracy probably cost the lives of a bunch of innocent human sailors who he robbed, so yeah, really not a good guy even at the end of the game, just someone on your side.
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Glen - Honestly don't remember him at all. I'd forgotten who he was by the time I reached the desert stage. :/
Selena - 4/10. Honourable villain, but doesn't do it as well as the standard (which is Rubicant). Gets a point for being pretty.
Valter - 8/10. I remember going through the first half of FE8 just praying for the chance to kill him. Pulls off the bastard villain brilliantly.
Caellech - 4/10. Sort of there. Does villainy stuff and then gets overshadowed completely by Valter.
Riev - 7/10. - Crazed scientist is always fun. Izuka Mk. I.
Lyon - 5/10. - I give him credit for his actions, at least. I... don't really rate him as a villain too much, but I can't really place why. He does what he does well, so I'll at least give him credit for that, though.
Fomortiis - 1/10. Space flea. Doesn't even have the theories that Necron has going for him. ;(
Oliver - 7/10. I hate this guy. REALLY hate him. Really.
Petrine - 3/10. Dull, but notable screentime.
Black Knight - 6/10. Points for the whole Greil thing and the double-sided-ness with FE10. (Yeah, I'm combining the two, seeing as the story is basically just one.)
Bryce - 1/10. Dull.
Ashnard - 6/10. Does all the typical villain-esque things, but never actually seems too threatening, and I found myself never really caring about what he was planning to do.
Jarod - 5/10. Dull, boring, but works for what he's doing. Bonus points for the dick move at the end, which would've worked if not for the Black Knight appearing randomly.
Ludveck - 2/10. Never even a remotely serious threat. I actually found myself agreeing with him for the most part. >.>
Valtome - 1/10. He's like an ugly version of Kuja. The beauty obsession never works with an ugly character. (See: Oliver.)
Izuka - 8/10. Crazed scientist is always fun. Riev Mk. II. Bonus point for the evil of Feral Ones.
Lekain - 9/10. Really freaking works as a villain. Sorta guy you love to hate, he's a total dick, and the main antagonist for near enough the whole damn game. Also love the betrayals and trickery throughout.
Levail - DNR. Seriously, is he actually a villain? Seems he's just a loyal soldier to the Black Knight, and not even when the Black Knight's being evil.
Zelgius - See above.
Dheginsea - 4/10. Hm. Difficult one here. He's barely a villain, but still enough to rank. But.. you don't hate him -too- much (not for plot, anyways) and he doesn't really do much in the story. Gets points for the plot with Kurthnaga, but that's not villainy at all. Gah. (Also, points for the whole Ashera thing, but yeah. Minor point.)
Sephiran - 9/10. Love it. Pretty obviously twisted since the ending of FE9, but that's beside the point. His logic is obviously flawed, and he knows that, but that's not the reason he acts. Presumably. Brilliantly in-depth and a fun character to even consider, ignoring the backstory with Greil.
Ashera - 2/10. Essentially a space flea. Gets points for the whole logic of the universe being twisted in her favour despite being EVIL AS ALL HELL.
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Holidays are over, time to get back to this! Closes Monday (Japan Time).
FE8:
Glen - 4/10 - Doesn't have a lot of screen time, but I felt he used it well enough. He's average, but gets docked a point for that lack of screen time.
Selena - 5/10 - Rubicant comparison influenced this decision too much.
Valter - 7.5/10 - I love to hate this guy. His existance makes me hate Eirika less.
Caellech - 4/10
Riev - 5/10
Lyon - 6/10 - Never quite sure what to make of Lyon either. I personally like the idea that somehow Fomortiis is actually acting on Lyon's base desires, and Lyon just has a weak super-ego that was just barely holding his baser intentions in check before being possessed.
Fomortiis - 5/10 - Average space flea, unless I consider my little fanwank up there canon.
FE9:
Oliver - 6/10 - Elfboy's hype made me rethink him a bit, and he's slightly above average as a result.
Petrine - 6.5/10 - I liked her. She's just crazy and despicable. But fun.
Black Knight - 4/10 - Not really happy with him in FE9, but FE10 spoilers kept him from getting a 1.
Bryce - who?
Ashnard - 6/10 - Average tyrant, but gets a point for having a cool title 'The Mad King' that he himself seems to think is appropriate. Also, Cool Dragon.
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Glen: DNR
Selena: 4/10. See NEB, but was less annoying than Valter so.
Valter: 3/10. Annoying.
Caellech: 4/10. There.
Riev: 2/10. Generically fails.
Lyon: 5/10. Didn't fail completely.
Fomortiis: 2/10, eats babies.
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FE8:
Orson - 2/10 for madness
Glen - DNR for nonvillainy
Selena - 1/10 for idiocy
Valter - 6/10 for presence
Caellech - 7/10 for betrayal
Riev - 7/10 for necromancy
Lyon - 5/10 for good intentions
Fomortiis - 6/10, counting possessed!Lyon. 3/10 if not. For mindlessness.
FE9:
Oliver - 2/10 for inconsequentiality
Petrine - 2/10 for disrespect
Black Knight - 6/10 for imposingness
Bryce - DNR for nonexistence
Ashnard - 6/10 for presence
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FE9:
Oliver- 6. Works his role well.
Petrine- 3. Is there.
Black Knight- 7. All he is menacing presence, but....he's a gameplay menacing presense, so this worked really well. I really liked the chapter that was essentially "Make everyone run away from him or DEATH"
Bryce- ?
Ashnard- 6. Works his role well.
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FE8:
Selena- I do not really remember her.
Valter- 6/10. Creepy, effective within that catagory.
Caellech- 5/10. Doesn't leave a strong impression. I think FE does this type of character too much for it.
Riev- 4/10. zzz.
Lyon- 7/10. He works, seeing evidence for both sides of the possession coin on either route makes him more effective I think.
Fomortiis- 3/10. Well, someone had to be the OVERLORD!!! Meh about it though.
FE9:
Oliver- 6/10. Good intro to the general corruption of the Senate that FE10 picks up on, moreso than anything he himself does.
Petrine- 5/10. See Caellech
Black Knight- Deferred until FE10.
Bryce- 5/10. Assuming this is the general midboss on the final map? See Caellech.
Ashnard- 7/10. Disclaimer: Based on FE10 info. FE10 just makes him so very scummy that I have a certain respect for how dedicated the game is to the whole thing.
FE10:
Jarod- 5/10. Not bad, but I don't have any strong affection for this sort of character.
Ludveck- 5/10.
Valtome- 4/10. Amusing but eh.
Izuka- 6/10.
Lekain- 7/10. Maaaaaaan.
Levail- DNR, non-entity.
Zelgius- 6/10. he works pretty well with the overall themes of the game, and has a good balance between worthy adversary and imposing mountain, but still doesn't do much for me overall.
Dheginsea- 3/10.
Sephiran- 6/10. I dunno, he's alright.
Ashera- 4/10.
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FE8:
Glen: Who? DNR.
Selena: 2/10. God what a stupid cunt.
Valter: 7/10. Okay, Valter is a stereotypical villain sure... but you can practically FEEL how much he revels in it. Just wants to hurt and rape and enjoy it and look creepily good while doing it. Really sticks with me for what an unabashed douche he is. Left a lasting impression.
Caellech: 3/10. Caellach doesn't get the screentime or plot to pull off a good villain.
Riev: 3/10. Rieve did nothing for me.
Lyon: 9/10. Yeah I think he deserves this. Like NEB said, playing both paths lets you see what his goal was and what motivated him to pursue the course he did, and the intrigue between where he ends and the demon king begins is actually neat.
Fomortiis: 5/10 for being a part of the Lyon deal.
FE9:
Oliver: 6/10 for FABULOUSNESS. And getting punched in the face by FREAKING REYSON.
Petrine: 3/10. See NEB's comment here? Duplicate.
Black Knight: 6/10. Imposing figure that commanded some respect. Eh.
Bryce: 4/10. Not enough screentime.
Ashnard: 6/10. What can I say, I liked the brutality of his appearance/character. Kinda like how I liked Luca Blight.
FE10:
Jarod: 9/10. "WE LIVED AS PROUD SOLDIERS OF THE EMPIRE. AND WE WILL DIE AS PROUD SOLDIERS OF THE EMPIRE!" That speech got me pumped up for that fight bigtime, and he's the VILLAIN. Yeah, all things considered he is just a pawn who unwittingly let himself be played by his asshole superiors, but the pure PRIDE shone through to the point where I respected him.
Ludveck: 6/10. Mostly because he seemed so assured of himself and it made it really really enjoyable when he got owned. I suppose one is defined by one's enemies, and Elincia is a bloody fantastic nemesis.
Valtome: 4/10. Did nothing stylish or memorable for me. Was a dick but was one with none of the flair of some other highly-ranked pricks here.
Izuka: 6/10 for being hilariously obvious in his... evilness.
Lekain: 7/10. They make him out to be the most horrible human being ever, and they damn well succeed. The fact that they give so many people speeches right before they get the pleasure of killing him says it all. He and Yuna from BoF4 stand out as probably the biggest assholes in any of the RPGs I have played. BURN TRAITOR.
Levail: DNR
Zelgius: 6/10. Works as Sephiran's Dragon.
Dheginsea: 2/10. Annoying stepping stone with no discernible personality? Check.
Sephiran: 5/10. I am neutral to him. He has a certain style and he isn't exactly some emo guy bent on destroying the world, but his motivations are kind of stupid.
Ashera: DNR. Not really a villain or even a presence worth talking about.
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RESULTS! zOMG!
Fire Emblem 8: The Sacred Stones
Glen 4.333333333 (3 raters, 6 DNR)
Selena 3.090909091 (11 raters)
Valter 5.958333333 (12 raters)
Caellech 4.333333333 (12 raters)
Riev 4 (12 raters)
Lyon 6.5 (10 raters, 1 DNR)
Fomortiis 3.818181818 (11 raters)
Fire Emblem 9: Path of Radiance
Oliver 6.090909091 (11 raters)
Petrine 3.590909091 (11 raters)
Black Knight 5.5 (10 raters)
Bryce 3.5 (6 raters, 2 DNR)
Ashnard 4.818181818 (11 raters)
Fire Emblem 10: Radiant Dawn
Jarod 6.857142857 (7 raters)
Ludveck 4.333333333 (6 raters, 1 DNR)
Valtome 3.571428571 (7 raters)
Izuka 5.714285714 (7 raters)
Lekain 6.928571429 (7 raters)
Levail 2 (1 rater, 6 DNR)
Zelgius 5.833333333 (6 raters)
Dheginsea 2.333333333 (6 raters)
Sephiran 4.714285714 (7 raters)
Ashera 3.4 (5 raters, 1 DNR)
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Top ten highest ranked villains:
1. Delita(FFT): 9.04, 12 rankers. (3 DNR)
2. Irving Vold Valeria(WA2): 9.00, 16 rankers.
3. Dycedarg(FFT): 7.86, 15 rankers.
4. Charlton(WAXF): 7.82, 11 rankers.
5. Magus(CT): 7.75, 12 rankers. (1 DNR)
6. Bangaa(FFTA2): 7.66, 3 rankers.
7. Jecht(FFX): 7.30, 15 rankers. (3 DNR)
8. Katrina: 7.22, 9 rankers. (1 DNR)
9. Reno(FF7): 7.21, 21 rankers.
10. Ghaleon(Lunar1): 7.11, 9 rankers.
Top ten lowest ranked villains
1. Kresnik(WA4): 1.47, 13 rankers. (6 DNR)
2. Volsung(WA5): 1.64, 14 rankers. (1 DNR)
3. Time Devourer(CC): 1.875, 8 rankers.
4. Zemus/Zeromus(FF4): 1.88, 17 rankers.
5. Amon(Lufia 1): 2.00, 8 rankers.
6. Medeus (FE11): 2.00, 3 rankers.
7. Lunn(Lunar2): 2.11, 9 rankers.
8. Necron(FF9): 2.13, 22 rankers.
9. Zoma (DW3/DQ3): 2.25, 4 rankers.
10. Amon(Lufia 2): 2.26, 15 rankers.
Games ranked:
FF1, FF2, FF3, FF4, FF5, FF6, FF7, FF8, FF9, FF10, FF12, FFT, FFTA, FFTA2, WA1, WA2, WA3, WA4, WA5, WA:XF, Lufia 1, Lufia 2, Lufia 3, DW1, DW2, DW3, DW4/DQ4, Lunar1, Lunar2, CT, CC, FE11, FE6, FE7, FE8, FE9, FE10
Next up is a series we all care so much about: Breath of Fire! First and Second installments.
I've not played more than a few minutes of the first two BoF games, so these villain suggestions were selected from chat. If we've missed anyone, please let us know quickly so I can add them.
Breath of Fire 1
Cort
Cerl
Mote
Goda
Jade
Zog
Tyr/Myria
Breath of Fire II
Augus
Joker
Kuwadora
Trout
MC Tusk
Shupkay
Aruhamel
Necroman
Habaruku
Barubary
DeathEvans
Voting lasts a week, enjoy!
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Breath of Fire 1
As a big fan of BoF1, fuck its bit villains.
Cort: DNR
Cerl: DNR
Mote: DNR. Has notably more than than the other generals but yeaaah.
Goda: DNR.
Jade: 6/10. He did the "backstab your superior by manipulating the party" thing and did nothing notably bad otherwise (unlike, say, WA1 Ziekfried, who is pretty much a shout out).
Zog: 3/10. Rar, emperor. On second thought, he may have even less going for him than Mote.
Tyr/Myria: 4/10. Gets a bonus point for the "will you be my friend?" thing. It's creepy.
Write-in: Sara: 6/10. Considering her big scene is clearly antagonistic, not sure why she was excluded. Anyway, it made for a sad scene I found reasonably effective, so despite being limited, this works.
Breath of Fire II
Augus: 3/10. EVIL ARENA MANAGER.
Joker: 2/10. EVIL CRIME LORD.
Kuwadora: 5/10. Okay, his master plan is to beat you in a cooking contest, that's pretty cool.
Trout: 3/10. Epic boss fight!
MC Tusk: DNR. EVIL CIRCUS MANAGER.
Shupkay: 3/10. EVIL FEMALE MONKEY.
Aruhamel: DNR. EVIL DEBILITATING MENTAL ILLNESS.
Necroman: DNR. EVIL PRIEST.
Habaruku: 5/10. Is the main villain, but I don't give a damn.
Barubary: 3/10. EVIL RANDOMLY IN THE START OF THE GAME.
DeathEvans: 6/10. Poet!
Awesome.
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Breath of Fire 1
Don't care about the scrubs.
Jade: 7. Entertain me!
Zog: 2. Blank archetype.
Tyr/Myria: 2. Absolutely no reason to care until two games later.
Breath of Fire II
Don't care about the scrubs.
Habaruku: 4. Well, at least he's an active presence. Had one good scene near endgame.
Barubary: 5. I liked the "nightmare demon from your childhood haunts your dreams" concept. BoF2 of course proceeds to do nothing with it until at the end of the game you're like "hey, it's that guy" and fight him. Oh well.
DeathEvans: 6. Poet! Also genuinely threatening for roughly 30 seconds.
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Breath of Fire 1
Cort: The ugly one! 3. Was kind of there?
Cerl: Half emu/half preying mantis. With boobs! 2. Kind of grating story.
Mote: The ugly one. Don't remember him.
Goda: Was he a toad?
Jade: 6. Cool strategy, but I guess I cared a lot more when it was Ziek (Probably because I saw Ziek as having a more legit reason to try it)
Zog: 3
Tyr/Myria: 3
Breath of Fire II
Augus: I forgot
Joker: I forgot
Kuwadora: I forgot
Trout: I forgot
MC Tusk: I forgot
Shupkay: 2. Oh, I do remember you though.l
Aruhamel: He eat my memory of the game. (I only remember about the last 1/3 and parts of the first third as existing)
Necroman: Oh, he existed, but he was in the part of BoF 2 that I wiped out on.
Habaruku: 8. I'll admit, my memory on BoF 2 was hazy. But I remember him being a semi effective bastard, and that I remembered him enough plotwise for me to think he merited a rank for a damn long time.
Barubary: 2. Dream demon who randomly appears later.
DeathEvans: 4. +1 for poetry. Is nonexistant otherwise.
Yeah, need to replay this, since I actually kind of liked it (But...maybe only because I erased most of the games in my memory)
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Breath of Fire 1
Cort: DNR
Cerl: 3/10
Mote: DNR
Goda: DNR
Jade: 4/10.
Zog: 4/10
Tyr/Myria 2/10.
Breath of Fire II
Augus: 4/10.
Joker: DNR
Kuwadora: DNR
Trout: 5/10.
MC Tusk: DNR
Shupkay: DNR, burn Highfort.
Aruhamel: Who?
Necroman: DNR
Habaruku: 6/10. His few scenes are solid.
Barubary: 8/10. I really like the concept and Barubary manages to be creepy. If only he had more screentime.
DeathEvans: 7/10.
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Breath of Fire 1
Mote - 4/10 - 8 BIT VILLAIN
Jade - 2/10 uh... whatever.
Zog - 2/10 yep
Tyr/Myria 2/10 ok
Breath of Fire II
Augus - 3/10 - +1 for the half-naked MC guy before him.
Joker - 2/10 - fat
Kuwadora - 6/10 - His master plan was to take over a kingdom of frogs who really didn't give a shit that he was taking over. Awesome.
Trout - 2/10 - also fat
MC Tusk DNR
Shupkay DNR whatever monkeys
Aruhamel - Okay. Alzheimer would get at least an 8/10 or something from me if they'd done anything with him besides "oh hey Ryu by the way I WAS THE ONE WHO CAUSED EVERYONE TO FORGET TEE HEE" that was a really, really major plot point that they just fucked over.
Necroman - DNR
Habaruku - 3/10 - +1 for the cathedral music or something
Barubary - 4/10 - I would have loved to see him show up more. I didn't really understand what they were going with for him.
DeathEvans - 7/10 - Nikanoru
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Breath of Fire 1
Mote 2/10 - There. WOULDN'T DIE. FUCK YOU YOUR FIGHT TAKES TOO LONG.
Jade 4/10 - Gets more points than Zog on the basis that he actually did stuff.
Zog 3/10 - Uh...he's evil! And weak to magic.
Tyr/Myria 2/10 - Halfway to Space Flea status in this game.
Breath of Fire II
Augus - 3/10 DOGLIKE
Joker - 2/10 FAT THIEF
Kuwadora - Tries to take over a kingdom of frog people who don't give a shit by rigging a cooking contest. 7/10.
Trout - FUCK YES YOU ARE THE BEST BOSS FIGHT EVER. Oh wait, no. ATTACKS YOUR MONEY. 5/10 on that.
MC Tusk - DNR
Shupkay - 2/10 monkey
Aruhamel - DNR. Could've done better if he had more plot presence.
Necroman - DNR
Habaruku - 4/10. Got rid of the excuse for Katt to be removed from my party. I prefer having Katt in my party, so he gets brownie points.
Barubary - 4/10. He had presence and his own boss theme. BoF2 plot being what it is, though, he doesn't appear at all. Had nice potential, though.
DeathEvans - 6/10. POETRY. And explosions. Explosions are fun.
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Breath of Fire 1
Cort - 5/10 for mad science
Cerl - 2/10 for repentance
Mote - 7/10 for torturing Mogu
Goda - DNR for nonexistence
Jade - 7/10 for style
Zog - 7/10 for world domination
Tyr/Myria - 2/10 for reputation
Breath of Fire II
Augus - 1/10 for greed
Joker - don't remember enough
Kuwadora - don't remember enough
Trout - don't remember enough
MC Tusk - don't remember enough
Shupkay - don't remember enough
Aruhamel - 7/10 for mindtaking
Necroman - don't remember enough
Habaruku - 8/10 for brainwashing
Barubary - 2/10 for child molestation
DeathEvans - 4/10 for shattering people
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Thrilling results from our 7-person voting pool!
We have a new failure record. It's the first time a character has gotten -no- ranking votes at all. Pure DNR. And not just one, but three of them!
Breath of Fire 1
Cort 4 (2 raters, 2 DNR)
Cerl 2.333333333 (3 raters, 1 DNR)
Mote 4.333333333 (3 raters, 2 DNR)
Goda NA (0 raters, 3 DNR)
Jade 5.142857143 (7 raters)
Zog 3.428571429 (7 raters)
Tyr/Myria 2.428571429 (7 raters)
Breath of Fire II
Augus 2.8 (5 raters)
Joker 2 (3 raters, 1 DNR)
Kuwadora 6 (3 raters, 1 DNR)
Trout 3.75 (4 raters)
MC Tusk NA (0 raters, 4 DNR)
Shupkay 2.333333333 (3 raters, 2 DNR)
Aruhamel 7.5 (2 raters, 2 DNR)
Necroman NA (0 raters, 4 DNR)
Habaruku 5.428571429 (7 raters)
Barubary 4 (7 raters)
DeathEvans 5.714285714 (7 raters)
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Top ten highest ranked villains:
1. Delita(FFT): 9.04, 12 rankers. (3 DNR)
2. Irving Vold Valeria(WA2): 9.00, 16 rankers.
3. Dycedarg(FFT): 7.86, 15 rankers.
4. Charlton(WAXF): 7.82, 11 rankers.
5. Magus(CT): 7.75, 12 rankers. (1 DNR)
6. Bangaa(FFTA2): 7.66, 3 rankers.
7. Jecht(FFX): 7.30, 15 rankers. (3 DNR)
8. Katrina: 7.22, 9 rankers. (1 DNR)
9. Reno(FF7): 7.21, 21 rankers.
10. Ghaleon(Lunar1): 7.11, 9 rankers.
Top ten lowest ranked villains
1. Kresnik(WA4): 1.47, 13 rankers. (6 DNR)
2. Volsung(WA5): 1.64, 14 rankers. (1 DNR)
3. Time Devourer(CC): 1.875, 8 rankers.
4. Zemus/Zeromus(FF4): 1.88, 17 rankers.
5. Amon(Lufia 1): 2.00, 8 rankers.
6. Medeus (FE11): 2.00, 3 rankers.
7. Lunn(Lunar2): 2.11, 9 rankers.
8. Necron(FF9): 2.13, 22 rankers.
9. Zoma (DW3/DQ3): 2.25, 4 rankers.
10. Amon(Lufia 2): 2.26, 15 rankers.
Games ranked:
FF1, FF2, FF3, FF4, FF5, FF6, FF7, FF8, FF9, FF10, FF12, FFT, FFTA, FFTA2, WA1, WA2, WA3, WA4, WA5, WA:XF, Lufia 1, Lufia 2, Lufia 3, DW1, DW2, DW3, DW4/DQ4, Lunar1, Lunar2, CT, CC, FE11, FE6, FE7, FE8, FE9, FE10, BoF1, BoF2
And now, for something with possible merit! Breath of Fire the Third and Fourth editions!
Breath of Fire III
Balio
Sunder
Teepo
Myria
Breath of Fire IV
Kahn
Yohm
Rasso
Yuna
Emperor Soniel
Won-Qu & A-Tur
Fou-Lu
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Breath of Fire III
Balio - 5: Competent, amusing sub-boss pair.
Sunder - 5: But seriously, like I could tell these two apart more than a decade after the game's release?
Teepo - 8: His reason for fighting the PCs is non-idiotic, yet killing him is sad.
Myria - 6: In her defense, should have been far, far worse.
Breath of Fire IV
Kahn - 5: Incompetent amusing sub-boss.
Yohm - 4: Unmemorable, competent serious sub-boss.
Rasso - 4: Unmemorable, incompetent serious sub-boss.
Yuna - 9: I've never come close to hating a video game character more. He's basically the same character as Hojo, but I cared more about Nina4, Fou-Lu and Cray (and by extension Mami and especially Elina) than I did about Aerith, Sephiroth or Vincent. And, the fucking son of a bitch gets away with it! SO MUCH HATE. The only character I've written revenge fic about. Physically impossible revenge fic, because that log Cray carries is wider than Yuna's body, so ramming it - ahem. Anyway, to make me hate him so very, very much he has to be an effective villain, right?
Emperor Soniel - 2: Exists.
Won-Qu & A-Tur - 5: Cool-looking, competent sub-bosses.
Fou-Lu - 10: DNR? Most sympathetic final boss EVAR, yet fighting him still makes sense, so I think he deserves to be on the list. He brings the awesome on every level, he's a great character, and he's a reasonably tough fight to boot.
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Breath of Fire III
Balio: 8/10. I really like Balio and Sunder. I found them truly menacing. The Kartikeyas and Luca Blights of the world could learn something from these guys. Badass warriors don't fear villains. 10-year old children? Oh god. I just got into the child Ryu arc and remember being actively scared that these dudes were going to catch me.
Sunder: Balio is the serious one and Sunder is the comic relief, for the record. 7/10 because I like their serious side more, though I appreciated the humour too.
Teepo: 6/10. He's good, but... one scene.
Myria: 7/10. She's good, but... one scene. Found it a more impactful scene however.
Breath of Fire IV
Kahn: 7.5/10. The sailor sequence is wonderful.
Yohm: 9. Yohm rules. I have said it before and I will say it again, I don't think Fou-Lu works nearly as well without Yohm. Fou-Lu needs an opponent who can test him, who can keep Fou on his toes while he tries to complete his mission. Yohm delivers. And I loved the angle they ran with him. He's not some arrogant toady (see his deliberate foil, Rasso). He has massive respect for Fou-Lu and takes him seriously. This, -again-, helps build up Fou in the player's mind... the imperial general is going to these lengths? And he always had a certain grace about him. His death scene definitely made an impact on me.
Rasso: 5/10. Well, I can't complain about him since he serves his purpose well, but there's little to like about him personally. Gets owned.
Yuna: Y'know what? I could rant here, but honestly, aside from the fact that I didn't write a revenge fic, I agree with Mr. Cranbud completely. So I won't. Yuna is a complete bastard, he engineers one of the most horrifying scenes in an RPG, and him escaping is a dick move. EDIT: Oh, rating. 8.5/10 works.
Emperor Soniel: 3/10. Has only one scene where he gets owned badly. I dunno. I like his role in the plot but that's about it.
Won-Qu & A-Tur: 3/10. They're cool fights, but they ain't characters.
Fou-Lu: 9.5/10. For some reason I am reluctant to give him a 10, but yeaaah. Easily the best RPG character of his archetype. The game totally SELLS you on his belief that humans are bad. His conflict with the party makes perfect sense, because we have seen both sides and we understand how both came to this conclusion. I'd give him a 10 if I was happier with the final conflict itself (man, combine BoF3's final confrontation with BoF4's writing otherwise and that's an 11/10 villain right there). Still exemplifies his style of villain and his story told in parallel with Ryu's is what makes BoF4 as memorable a game as it is.
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Breath of Fire III
Balio 0/10. Sure, they're assholes, but they're the sort of assholes that are irritating and make you not want to play any further. The entire childhood arc of BoF3 has this problem and these two are the worst part of it. The trials may make sense and they may be done well, but they're just not fun.
Sunder 0/10.
Teepo 4/10. Worked for what he was, but needed to show up more than he did.
Myria 2/10. Blah blah blah brood blah blah blah desert blah blah blah shut up.
Breath of Fire IV
Kahn 0/10 - Unfunny gimmick. Terrible character.
Yohm 8/10. Not bad, a soldier who has a pig of a job and is willing to try anything to do it. See Elfboy past that, he's probably the best character in the game on reflection.
Rasso 1/10. Blah blah blah.
Yuna: 7/10. Points for being an asshole and getting away with it, even if it was because of the story being fucked up.
Emperor Soniel: 1/10. Who cares?
Won-Qu & A-Tur: 1/10: Bleh.
Fou-Lu: 7/10. I don't have much sympathy for Fou-Lu. I could follow him until he decided genocide was the answer. He's still a solid character.
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Breath of Fire III
Balio - 5/10 - Let's burn down kids' houses and go all hihihihihi about it. Wait, what?
Sunder - 5/10 - See Balio.
Teepo - 2/10 - What? He's... a villain?
Myria - 1/10 - Comes around near the end, goes emo, gets told by a walking onion.
Man, BoF 3 really has villains who only come around for one fight, huh...?
Breath of Fire IV
Kahn - DNR - Comedy relief.
Yohm - 8/10 - Likeable. Does the "on opposing sides but not a jerk about it" well.
Rasso - 6/10 - Oh, the bastard who killed the summoner kids. Right. Until that scene, doesn't really register as dangerous/competent. His moment of JERK only lasts him all of two minutes.
Yuna - 7/10 - Now, see, here's someone who does the entire jerk routine and runs with it. Literally.
Emperor Soniel - 1/10 - Meh.
Won-Qu & A-Tur - DNR - Not really villains, just Fou-Lu's henchies who do as he says. They don't even have motivation beyond "Fou-Lu told us to guard this."
Fou-Lu - 9/10 - Yep. Pretty much the greatest villain BoF produced. IMO. The scary part is that I actually sympathise and agreed with him at the game ending. Humans are bastards.
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Breath of Fire III
Balio - 8/10. See the Elf. Everything I would want to say here, phrased more eloquently.
Sunder - 7/10. Was definately Balio's sidekick, so gets a point reduction.
Teepo - 5/10. Yeah, needed to have more presance.
Myria - 7/10. Worked well enough, I think.
Breath of Fire IV
Kahn - 7/10. As joke bosses go, he's at least funny.
Yohm - 9/10. Yeah, really good way to write a fairly noble antagonist. Also definately agree with the Elf on how he does so much to build up Fou-lu.
Rasso - 5/10. Barely remember him, so average works.
Yuna - 9/10. So much hate. BoF4 did a really great job of writing both noble and despicable villians.
Emperor Soniel - 3/10. Yeah, agree with the "meh" sentiments.
Won-Qu & A-Tur - DNR. Really don't deserve thier own spots as "Villians" I think.
Fou-Lu - 10/10. Deifnately one of the all time greats, for me.
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Breath of Fire IV
Note: I stopped playing shortly after it was clear there were no more Fou Lu sections (though I spoiled and looked up the script for the final confrontation at one point). I'm going from very vague memory and probably praise and condemn too much. I also don't give a shit.
Kahn - 1: Meeple.
Yohm - 9: As I'll touch on in a bit, three words: Fou Lu scenario. So here we have a realistic (in motive and actions), intelligent-yet-tragic character instead of retarded, one-dimensional, cliched pastiches.
Rasso - 4: Retarded, one-dimensional, cliched pastiche.
Yuna - 9: Once again, Fou Lu scenario. Go go gadget sociopath. Not sure I find it that credible but bonus points for being ballsy enough to let someone so vicious go free in a god damn RPG.
Emperor Soniel - 2: Well okay I guess the side villain of the scenario can suck and I won't care.
Won-Qu & A-Tur - Abstain: Didn't play through enough to fight/see them.
Fou-Lu - 10. Only BoF Character I liked AND thought was well written. As soon as the sections where you play as Fou Lu ended, the game lost any allure for me. It's almost like Capcom had the team that made the other BoF games write the Ryu scenario, while they got someone who is a better storyteller to write something worth paying attention to. If BoF4 was as well written the entire way through it would probably be higher up on my rankings.
EDIT: Hey random question: Have we done the Mother series (at least Earthbound and 3)? I'm not about to skim the topic to check.
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Breath of Fire III
Balio - Whee bully. I can understand the fear angle but that doesn't really make them great. 4/10
Sunder - See Balio. 4/10
Teepo - Abstain
Myria - Abstain
Breath of Fire IV
Kahn - Good comedic relief. 6/10
Yohm - Pretty much agree with NEB. He knows what he's up against and doesn't dick around. Pretty hard not to respect that. 8/10
Rasso - CHEEKS OF STEEL. *ahem* Exists to be not only owned, but to be owned by Nina. gj man. 2/10.
Yuna - Supreme asshole. He's behind some of the nastiest stuff in the game and works because of it. Don't remember him all that well but I remember his well enough to consider him good at his role. 6/10
Emperor Soniel - Pretty much exists as a background figure. 2/10.
Won-Qu & A-Tur - DNR, see Gate/Bardiche.
Fou-Lu - Awesome stuff all around. Likely one of the best RPG villains if not THE best. His scenario was all-around well written and the Hex Cannon scene does a damn good job at making you sympathise with him. 9.5/10
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Breath of Fire III
Balio: 5. Eh, too goofy in design for me to consider them any better.
Sunder: 5.
Teepo: 6. Agh. I really, really want to give him a higher score but the game gives no justification for it. Damn it. Another dropped angle.
Myria: 7. I s'pose.
Breath of Fire IV
Kahn: 7. MAN OF THE SEA. *lensflare, dolphin jump*
Yohm: 7. Mm. On paper very good, but kind of lost presence as game went on and then it was like "oh, that guy" when it was time for final confrontation.
Rasso: 3. Okay, one point for CHEEKS OF STEEL.
Yuna: 10. Despicable bastard with internally consistent motives and him getting away with it did not feel like a cheap writer's whim, but him actually playing smart. Major props to BoF4 villain writing.
Emperor Soniel: 2. Setpiece.
Won-Qu & A-Tur: DNR. Rar I am a dog.
Fou-Lu: 10. Yeah, he's basically the best.
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Kahn - 6/10. Decently good comic relief villain. Could be better, but this style is usually done much worse, so I won't complain.
Yohm - 9/10. Yes. This is the reason I cared about the Fou-Lu scenarios. When Fou-Lu's sections went in with Mami, I could not give a shit about what happened. Take away any conflict and the plot becomes stale. This guy? Made the conflict. Made you care about Fou-Lu. Would go to any length to kill Fou-Lu. And then, to top it all off, it's just his duty? He's doing all of that because he was told to? Honestly seems like a completely heartless villain, and I think that's better than the ones who have their own motivations a lot of the time.
Rasso - 7/10. In the first half of the game? Ultimate. Dick. I hated this guy, and he was damn good at what he did. Comes across as mildly incompetent after a while, and it starts curving downhill from there - he gets cut off pretty quickly after that, though.
Yuna - Not agreeing with the AMAZING VILLAIN ZOMFG hype here, but he works for what he is. He is a dick of a scientist, but it seems to me like they tried too much here. If they needed a villain in a scenario? Here comes Yuna. The fact that they made him really over-the-top taunting and evil was good, and the fact they made him shy away from fights left, right and centre was good, but the two don't work well together - not without him actually getting screwed over by his taunting, at least. And a lack of care for Elina (since they, y'know, never introduce her) makes that scene a little pointless, although Cray's reaction made it good. I guess I can go with a 9/10 here, if only because I can see the strengths, but... I honestly think they tried too much here, and some of it falls through.
Emperor Soniel - 1/10. Sends people to do stuff for him, they fail, he dies. Whoops.
Won-Qu & A-Tur - 2/10. I like them, but they don't really do much, do they? "YOU MUST NOT PASS OH LOOK YOU BEAT US NOW WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE YOU CAN PASS." The End.
Fou-Lu - Ehh. In all honesty? As with Yuna, I don't see where the hype comes from. Good, sure, but nothing special. I found him pretty fun as a PC, but he wasn't an effective villain in the slightest and I had little attachment to his character once Yohm was no longer a major threat. I'll say 7/10, but that's mostly for seeing the development of PC Fou-Lu, as much as I didn't think it was great.
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Breath of Fire III
Balio & Sunder - 4/10 for general incompetence
Teepo - 3/10 for being effectively brainwashed
Myria - 3/10 for theoretically good intentions
Breath of Fire IV
Kahn - DNR, not a villain
Yohm - 8/10 for general competence
Rasso - 8/10 for reprehensibility
Yuna - 9/10 for reprehensibility to the max
Emperor Soniel - 5/10 for hubris
Won-Qu & A-Tur - DNR, not villains
Fou-Lu - ............2/10 for bad judgement/DNR, not a villain
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Breath of Fire III
Balio, Sunder: 6/10. They are okay.
Teepo 7/10. Quite good I think, a little short on development though.
Myria 9/10. I think she works because she's a mommy figure and it's believable.
Breath of Fire IV
Kahn 2/10. MEH.
Yohm 7/10
Rasso: 3/10.
Yuna: 9/10.
Emperor Soniel: 5/10. He's good for what he is; incompetent.
Won-Qu & A-Tur: what
Fou-Lu: 10/10. Best villain ever :)
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Breath of Fire III
Balio - 7, vaguely threatening, but also entertaining.
Sunder - 6.5, the same, but an idiot.
Teepo - 6, never really got that attached to him.
Myria - 7, Tying the series together and finally getting a motivation really helps her.
Breath of Fire IV
Kahn - 7, well above average for comedy relief villains
Yohm - 9, stylish, somewhat unique archetype for an antagonist. Wish he had a battle form. Liked him.
Rasso - 4, pretty forgetable.
Yuna - 10, yay. Note that he is much cooler in the censored American version than the original Japanese. Neat.
Emperor Soniel - 5, kinda tragic, earns him average.
Won-Qu & A-Tur - 9, puppies of doom!
Fou-Lu - 10. Others have explained it better, but yeah he's essentially my favorite RPG villain.
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Yuna - 10, yay. Note that he is much cooler in the censored American version than the original Japanese. Neat.
The difference being..?
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He uh isn't present for the execution of the emperor? I dunno, I wasn't aware of much difference in the translation of the script, only a couple of cut scenes in BoF IV English.
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My mistake actually. I was referring to this from DragonTear:
Possibly the one thing that most disappointed and angered those who played Breath of Fire IV was Yuna. Or, more specifically, that he gets away scot free after everything he does. Some - actually, a lot - have theorized that this is part of the game's message, and Yuna is, in a sense, being given a second chance, just like all of humanity.
It's a nice thought, but the truth is, the staff just ran out of time. ^^; Originally, they had meant to include a scenario where Yuna is killed by Won-qu or strangled by Rhun, but just couldn't fit it in. Oh, well.
It was on the same page as all the cut sequences and I misremembered it as another cut scene rather than a 'left out in development' scene.
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Personally, I think the game is better for it. Not that I think it means he gets a second chance or anything, just that it means that at the end of the day this game ends with two halves of a god duking it out to prove who is right and petty shit like human concerns of justice are unimportant and can wait. Also that Yuna is a smooth pimp and you can't touch this.
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Its also a nice sense of realism since since not all EVIL DICKS get their just desserts, so its a nice change of pace when someone gets off scot free, let alone someone who can invoke as much hate as him.
(And then the real freaks go "AND ITS AWESOME SEQUEL BAIT TOO!" but that's a silly reason.)
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And they are of course dead wrong. Yuna being Yuna is not good sequel bait. Well not directly anyway. 500 years on and the aftermath of his stuff? Yeah that might be interesting, but a direct sequel (which BoF doesn't do anyway) would be pretty meh overall anyway.
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In fairness, one of the running theories about BoF4 is that it is a Prequel, and Myria is a result of Yuna's experiments (as is the body Deis has now), which hundreds of years later led to the shit that transpires in BoF1.
That's about the most logical way to link BoF4 to series, if its linked at all (obviously, the alternative is simply "BoF4 is not related, its in its own unique setting and Deis is just there for lulz." I know they did confirm BoF5 is NOT related, but said nothing about BoF4.)
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Duuuuuude. It is me. I know this.
But yeah Yuna surviving that has no bearing on BoF 1 at all, for Yuna living to really matter (since he has arleady created Deis and Myria are already there and already insanely powerful) then it would need to be a direct sequel, not a same universe 500 year later scenario, it would need to be like within the next 20 years or so assuming the BoF Clans live standard human lifetimes.
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Well, yes, I was mostly saying that on grounds that there was that slight chance that you forgot since its been how many years since we went over this shit at the BoF3/4 boards?
In any event, I generally agree that BoF4 doesn't make good direct sequel bait. Then again, most RPGs don't. There are worse ideas out there (FF6, comes to mind for a game that makes horrible (direct) sequel bait), but BoF4's really only niche is "YUNA LIVES!"
People tend to forget that the end of BoF4 basically said "The Empire is fucked, Ursula is on good terms with your team despite this, the others all go home, the Dragons are all mortal so no divine mumbo jumbo, so all that's left is Yuna being a dick, and being the intelligent guy he is, he's probably going to do things in secrecy as to not get a whole bunch of people who want him dead on his ass."
Just so we're clear, no, there are NOT a lot of people who want Yuna dead; its quite literally just your team, primarily Cray and maybe Nina (I say Maybe cause Nina is not someone who'd go out to murder someone on anger, just bitch and moan about it.) No one has any clue what kind of shit Yuna has pulled outside of your team, and considering the options are "Yuna, most trusted advisor of the Emperor, and currently highest standing yu left" and "Team that helped destroy the Empire", who do you think they're going to trust?
No, you didn't make this argument, nor do I think you actually follow this line of logic, mostly just slamming the argument cause someone else did, and showing how its NOT so clear cut as "PEOPLE WOULD HUNT YUNA DOWN ANYWAY!" cause really, outside of your team...no one gives a rats ass about him. Only people who know about what he did are your team and a bunch of generic nameless subordinates who are basically Yes guys.
EDIT: Considering the way this topic is derailing a bit, maybe its best to cut off the Yuna discussion to some place else, to make Djinn counting numbers easier? Just a thought.
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Breath of Fire III
Balio & Sunder - 7/10 I know they aren't the same person and they behave differently but I can never tell them apart so I'll rate them togother. Anyway I quite liked them as they did their job in the plot well, which is being an unbeatable menace. Only beaten when Garr joins and even then only due to Garr having Plot powers of doom. They should have lived till the adult Ryu bit though.
Teepo - 8/10 Deserves lower, but my friend who played this thought he was female and there was some love nonsense going on. I laughed, but then again it might be there anyway so I shouldn't laugh, as I'm sure someone out there has drawn it all in graphic detail.
Myria - 4/10 Is a God character so rated low. If you're a member of the Divine you better be a damn good character to get more then a Five.
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EDIT: Considering the way this topic is derailing a bit, maybe its best to cut off the Yuna discussion to some place else, to make Djinn counting numbers easier? Just a thought.
Naw, this topic's made for villain discussion too. I can count them just fine.
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Certainly Yuna probably wasn't going to go anywhere, but he also lost almost everything he could do anything with. The Empire is neutered, he had lost his entire support base, from memory the ending certainly does show Ursula being a key factor in the new Empire and Ursula has enough reasons to withhold support for Yuna (She was present for the awakening of Kaiser for a start... she knows there is some history surrounding Yuna and the Dragonslayer which quite clearly was wrapped up in the assassination of the Emperor, she knows what the entire deal with the Cannonade was. There is many things there). Ursula may not have more than her word, but she has time and proof (Cannonade still exists for a start). He doesn't need to be dead, he just needs to be neutered and well yeah he really lost almost all his support structure there.
Again this is all part of why I really like the Yuna surviving ending, it shows that there are more ways to deal with things than just kill them and that at the end of the day when you are having gods fight there is better things to be focused on.
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RESULTS!
Breath of Fire III
Balio 5.45 (11 raters)
Sunder 5.23 (11 raters)
Teepo 5.5 (10 raters)
Myria 5.3 (10 raters)
Breath of Fire IV
Kahn 4.95 (10 raters, 2 DNR)
Yohm 7.92 (12 raters)
Rasso 4.33 (12 raters)
Yuna 8.54 (12 raters)
Emperor Soniel 2.67 (12 raters)
Won-Qu & A-Tur 4 (5 raters, 5 DNR)
Fou-Lu 8.67 (12 raters)
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Top ten highest ranked villains:
1. Delita(FFT): 9.04, 12 rankers. (3 DNR)
2. Irving Vold Valeria(WA2): 9.00, 16 rankers.
3. Fou-lu(BoF4): 8.67, 12 rankers.
4. Yuna(BoF4): 8.54, 12 rankers.
5. Yohm(BoF4): 7.92, 12 rankers.
6. Dycedarg(FFT): 7.86, 15 rankers.
7. Charlton(WAXF): 7.82, 11 rankers.
8. Magus(CT): 7.75, 12 rankers. (1 DNR)
9. Bangaa(FFTA2): 7.66, 3 rankers.
10. Jecht(FFX): 7.30, 15 rankers. (3 DNR)
11. Katrina: 7.22, 9 rankers. (1 DNR)
12. Reno(FF7): 7.21, 21 rankers.
13. Ghaleon(Lunar1): 7.11, 9 rankers.
Top ten lowest ranked villains
1. Kresnik(WA4): 1.47, 13 rankers. (6 DNR)
2. Volsung(WA5): 1.64, 14 rankers. (1 DNR)
3. Time Devourer(CC): 1.875, 8 rankers.
4. Zemus/Zeromus(FF4): 1.88, 17 rankers.
5. Amon(Lufia 1): 2.00, 8 rankers.
6. Medeus (FE11): 2.00, 3 rankers.
7. Lunn(Lunar2): 2.11, 9 rankers.
8. Necron(FF9): 2.13, 22 rankers.
9. Zoma (DW3/DQ3): 2.25, 4 rankers.
10. Amon(Lufia 2): 2.26, 15 rankers.
Games ranked:
FF1, FF2, FF3, FF4, FF5, FF6, FF7, FF8, FF9, FF10, FF12, FFT, FFTA, FFTA2, WA1, WA2, WA3, WA4, WA5, WA:XF, Lufia 1, Lufia 2, Lufia 3, DW1, DW2, DW3, DW4/DQ4, Lunar1, Lunar2, CT, CC, FE11, FE6, FE7, FE8, FE9, FE10, BoF1, BoF2, BoF3, BoF4
Finishing off the BoF series! Only one game since there's a decently large number of (probably forgettable) villains. List is taken from wikipedia since I've not finished the game personally. Alert me to any particularly important details that this listing may cause, please.
Breath of Fire V: Dragon Quarter
Bosch
Violet Zeno
Mebeth
Tantra
Geegagis & Deegon
Deamoned
Cupid
Hortensia
Jezuit
Vexacion
Elyon
Chetyre
Dover
Happy voting, lasts... hoping just a week, but if voting and discussion are still going on, I'm not gonna just close it suddenly.
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Only listing the ones I know./me makes note to actually finish BoFV sometime...
Bosch - Uhh. 6/10, I guess. Dull character, but good at what he does. Actually seems slightly insane, which is always a fun trait for villains to have.
Violet Zeno - 7/10. A villain in the sense of "Disagrees with what you try to do" but nothing else. Has a modicum of sense and fear of Ryu, comes across as a competent warrior. Always good to see.
Mebeth - 2/10 - rar we will fight you o wait no we won't o well. 1 point for being an arrogant prick.
Deamoned - 5/10. Better than the others below him, because he actually thinks for himself. Deamoned = Nappa from DBZ, yup. Comes down to: "Why are you fighting?" "Why not?" "..."
Cupid - 1/10. I don't want to fight! 2D character, dull as hell, is a Pokemon Trainer. Go, Golem!
Hortensia - 1/10. Psychic lady who does sweet fuck-all. yay.
Jezuit - 1/10. rar evil council. I wish I remembered which one this was, but it's not like it changes things.
Vexacion - 1/10. Die. Worse because he completely killed me, but that's not relevant here. >.>
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Late to the party for FE11, let's do this.
Minerva: DNR, all her development is as a PC pretty much. Granted she is one of the only PCs with development!
Camus: 3/10. Generic noble enemy general who pushes no boundaries, but he didn't actively bother me and had some in-game presence, unlike...
Michalis: 1/10. Had no plot at all until the chapter you fight him and then the game expects me to care. Hahaha. Came off as a colossal tool in that one scene, too.
Gharnef: 4/10. Only villain who actually did things and Chapter 16 ensured he was at least somewhat intimidating. About as good as FE1 gets which says nothing.
Medeus: 2/10. Does he even appear before the final battle? Kinda like Michalis but less botched, still bad.
Would also have rated Morzas, for a one-scene wonder, "I killed your mother" makes him have more emotional impact than the rest. Is probably also a 4!
Now onto another shining star:
Bosch: 6/10. Pretty good. His personality made some sense and if he and Ryu had had more scenes together to act as foils instead of rar WE ARE ENEMIES the game might have had a plot.
Violet Zeno: 5/10. Portrayed well enough for what she is. I dunno if it's a good thing that I was totally cheering for her when she fought the party. Probably not.
Mebeth: 2/10. Hi I betray you for stupid underexplained reasons.
Tantra: 1/10. lol
Geegagis & Deegon: DNR
Deamoned: 3/10. Balgaine without the cool design. Still the best of the regent monkeys.
Cupid: 1/10. Whatever.
Hortensia: 1/10.
Jezuit: 2/10.
Vexacion: 2/10. 1 from what I saw but I am giving him credit for that scene with Bosch that is only on NG+. Only 1 because NG+ plot is idiotic.
Elyon: 2/10. HUMANITY IS NOT WORTHY TO OPEN UP THE SKY.
Chetyre: 1/10. Necron.
Dover: DNR.
Oh wow that ranking session gave me new appreciation for RPG writing.
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Bosch: 4/10. He didn't work so well for me. Maybe it's because of the narrative describing the plot as a battle between friends which gave me unfulfilled expectations. Whatever's the case, the only purpose he seemed to serve was to make Ruy look awesome in comparison, which I suppose is something even though I think Ruy would have been awesome anyway.
Violet Zeno: 7/10. She manages to be a non-asshole who still ends up fighting you without resorting to a nonsensical motivation. Ruy pretty much piled up a lot of reasons for her to come after him and she acted out of what to her looked like regretful necessity.
Mebeth: 3/10. Why try dirty tricks, which can backfire something horrible, to goad Ruy into fighting an enemy he's already bound to fight? He isn't cool or serves to move the plot into a new direction or anything like that either.
Tantra: 2/10. Makes annoying noises. Tried to be scary, but killing a lot of rangers which Ruy has already proven perfectly capable of beating doesn't set him up as an intimidating enemy.
Geegagis & Deegon: DNR. I consider them being characters no more than I consider the cage plant which kidnaps Garnet in the beginning of Final Fantasy IX to be a character.
Deamoned: 3/10. Well, he does serve his purpose as something to fight.
Cupid: 3/10. Make sense, dammit! His inane ramblings aren't offensive though, just defeats any point he may have had.
Hortensia: 2/10. Thank you Lin for cutting her rambling short!
Jezuit: 3/10. Could have been cool. His attitude is quite different from the rest of the regents particular in that he doesn't think highly of the D-ratio system. Unfortunately, this trait isn't very meaningful when half of the regents seem fond of inane ramblings. It's like thinking different than crack addicts.
Vexacion: 4/10. I must give him a point of handling the matter gracefully. "We are enemies, so we fight" also makes far more sense than "we fight because of something about harmony or sin or whatever that's supposed to mean anything."
Elyon: 3/10. I get that he was unsure if opening the path to the sky was a good idea, but why is "can Ruy beat the crap out of the regents?" a good criteria? It doesn't help that he is just as inane as Hortensia and Cupid if not even more so.
Chetyre: 3/10. What does he need the sky for and why would letting mankind get some fresh air be incomparable with his goals?
Dover: DNR. Plotless after-game boss.
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Bosch: 4/10. Is fine for what he is.
Violet Zeno: 5/10
Mebeth: who?
Tantra: 2/10
Geegagis & Deegon: Who?
Deamoned: 7/10. NED!!
Cupid: 3/10
Hortensia: 3/10
Jezuit: 3/10
Vexacion: 4/10
Elyon: 6/10
Chetyre: 2/10?
Dover DNR
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Bosch- 5/10.
Violet Zeno- 4/10.
Mebeth- 3/10.
Tantra- 2/10.
Geegagis & Deegon- DNR. (They basically are Tantra's remote bodies from what I can tell)
Deamoned- 3/10.
Cupid- 3/10
Hortensia- 2/10.
Jezuit- 3/10.
Vexacion- 4/10.
Elyon- 3/10.
Chetyre- 2/10.
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Right... any last minute voters? I'm gonna do SMRPG next.
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Okay! RESULTS and stuff!
Breath of Fire V: Dragon Quarter
Bosch 5 (5 raters)
Violet Zeno 5.6 (5 raters)
Mebeth 2.5 (4 raters)
Tantra 1.75 (4 raters)
Geegagis & Deegon DNR
Deamoned 4.2 (5 raters)
Cupid 2.2 (5 raters)
Hortensia 1.8 (5 raters)
Jezuit 2.4 (5 raters)
Vexacion 3 (5 raters)
Elyon 3.5 (4 raters)
Chetyre 2 (4 raters)
Dover DNR
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Top ten highest ranked villains:
1. Delita(FFT): 9.04, 12 rankers. (3 DNR)
2. Irving Vold Valeria(WA2): 9.00, 16 rankers.
3. Fou-lu(BoF4): 8.67, 12 rankers.
4. Yuna(BoF4): 8.54, 12 rankers.
5. Yohm(BoF4): 7.92, 12 rankers.
6. Dycedarg(FFT): 7.86, 15 rankers.
7. Charlton(WAXF): 7.82, 11 rankers.
8. Magus(CT): 7.75, 12 rankers. (1 DNR)
9. Bangaa(FFTA2): 7.66, 3 rankers.
10. Jecht(FFX): 7.30, 15 rankers. (3 DNR)
Top ten lowest ranked villains
1. Kresnik(WA4): 1.47, 13 rankers. (6 DNR)
2. Volsung(WA5): 1.64, 14 rankers. (1 DNR)
3. Hortensia(BoF5): 1.80, 5 rankers.
4. Time Devourer(CC): 1.875, 8 rankers.
5. Zemus/Zeromus(FF4): 1.88, 17 rankers.
6. Amon(Lufia 1): 2.00, 8 rankers.
7. Medeus (FE11): 2.00, 3 rankers.
8. Lunn(Lunar2): 2.11, 9 rankers.
9. Necron(FF9): 2.13, 22 rankers.
10. Cupid(BoF5): 2.20, 5 rankers.
11. Zoma (DW3/DQ3): 2.25, 4 rankers.
12. Amon(Lufia 2): 2.26, 15 rankers.
Games ranked:
FF1, FF2, FF3, FF4, FF5, FF6, FF7, FF8, FF9, FF10, FF12, FFT, FFTA, FFTA2, WA1, WA2, WA3, WA4, WA5, WA:XF, Lufia 1, Lufia 2, Lufia 3, DW1, DW2, DW3, DW4/DQ4, Lunar1, Lunar2, CT, CC, FE11, FE6, FE7, FE8, FE9, FE10, BoF1, BoF2, BoF3, BoF4, BoF5
Well, that was the least exciting round we've had so far... and we've already ranked the Sinistrals... Way to fail, BoF5. >.>;;
On to something with a different kind of evil: Super Mario RPG! Less tragic or serious, and just a series of increasingly-quirky bosses. Which says a lot when the game's first boss is Bowser~
Descriptions this time because I'm bored!
Bowser: If you don't remember who he is, you fail at gaming forever.
Croco: Dude stole your coinz. Also, bitchin' hat for a dinosaur.
Mack: Pogo-sword dude who uses Shysters to hold some poor Mushroom people hostage. Also has the first Star.
Belome: Doggie gonna eat you. Fight him like 400 times. "His charm point is his adorable tongue"
Bowyer: The first in a long series of anthromorphic Weaponry. As his name implies, he's a Bow. He likes shooting off and raining arrows on your team's head throughout the dungeon.
Punchinello: This one is an anthromorphic Bomb, despite the name.
Booster: Manliest guy in the mushroom kingdom? He ascribes to the Bowser school of matrimonial bliss.
Bundt: The cake is a lie.
Johnny: Pirate Shark!
Yaridovitch: 'Yari' is Japanese for spear, as in 'this guy is anthromorphic Spear'. The more you know~
Birdo: Pink, transvestite dinosaur who lays eyes from her -mouth-. :horrified: Debuted in Mario Bros 2.
Valentina: Known for ruining Mallow's family, taking over the Nimbus kingdom, and her enchanting jiggling.
Dodo: Valentina's right-hand Bird.
Axem Rangers: Red, Black, Pink, Green, and Yellow. Unsurprisingly, they all wield axes~
Boomer: He has a katana, that makes him pretty cool.
Exor: GIANT SWORD THAT CLEAVES THE HEAVENS Bowser's Keep!
Smithy: The 'mastermind' behind it all. He is a blacksmith who wants to fill the world with weapons~
Culex: Eww, you got Final Fantasy in my Mario game~
Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars
Bowser Koopa
Croco
Mack
Belome
Bowyer
Punchinello
Booster
Bundt
Johnny
Yaridovitch
Birdo
Valentina
Dodo
Axem Rangers
Boomer
Exor
Smithy
Culex
Happy voting.
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Belome: Doggie gonna eat you. Fight him like 400 times. "His charm point is his adorable tongue"
Bowyer: The first in a long series of anthromorphic Weaponry. As his name implies, he's a Bow. He likes shooting off and raining arrows on your team's head throughout the dungeon.
a) You only fight Belome twice.
b) Bowyer isn't the first anthropomorphic weapon, that's Mack the knife!
c) Second Booster should be Boomer.
Bowser Koopa: DNR
Croco: 5/10. Amusing enough.
Mack: 3/10. I don't remember him doing much of anything.
Belome: 4/10. Eh.
Bowyer: 5/10. He made life unpleasant for some town and was insane. It's something.
Punchinello: 6/10. Bomb. James Bomb. Curse you, censors. He'd totally be a 7/10 with his real name!
Booster: 7/10. Mildly hilarious.
Bundt: 7/10. THE CAKE IS ALIVE.
Johnny: 6/10. Shark pirate is pretty amusing.
Yaridovitch: 6/10. HIS SPECIAL POWER IS TICKLING.
Birdo: DNR
Valentina: 3/10. Don't try to be serious, SMRPG.
Dodo: 3/10. He did anything?
Axem Rangers: 6/10. Pretty good, but not Prism Ranger level.
Boomer: 2/10. Even in parody, overly serious samurais are lame.
Exor: 4/10. Awesome design, but I don't think he actually does much besides be the guy I thought was the final boss.
Smithy: 3/10. Don't try to be serious, SMRPG.
Culex: DNR
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Bowser Koopa: DNR
Croco: 5/10. Amusing enough.
Mack: 3/10. I don't remember him doing much of anything.
Belome: 4/10. Eh.
Bowyer: 5/10. He made life unpleasant for some town and was insane. It's something.
Punchinello: 6/10. Bomb. James Bomb. Curse you, censors. He'd totally be a 7/10 with his real name!
Booster: 7/10. Mildly hilarious.
Bundt: 7/10. THE CAKE IS ALIVE.
Johnny: 6/10. Shark pirate is pretty amusing.
Yaridovitch: 6/10. HIS SPECIAL POWER IS TICKLING.
Birdo: DNR
Valentina: 3/10. Don't try to be serious, SMRPG.
Dodo: 3/10. He did anything?
Axem Rangers: 6/10. Pretty good, but not Prism Ranger level.
Boomer: 2/10. Even in parody, overly serious samurais are lame. (GATE EDIT: Also, who? Only char on the list I didn't remember immediately.)
Exor: 4/10. Awesome design, but I don't think he actually does much besides be the guy I thought was the final boss.
Smithy: 3/10. Don't try to be serious, SMRPG.
Culex: DNR
Somehow, the Elf mirrors my opinions on SMRPG villians near perfectly. Up to and including thinking Exor was the final the first time I played. Freaky.
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Bowser Koopa - DNR.
Croco - Amusing enough. 4/10
Mack - Evil pogo knife space flea. Okay he gets half a point for pogo. 1.5/10
Belome - Hungry dogthing with space fleas. DNR, plotless midboss.
Bowyer - Did stuff and insane yoda speak. Gets half a point for the insane yoda speak. 2.5/10
Punchinello - Space flea with bombs. 1/10
Booster - He was amusing, yeah. 5/10
Bundt - Evil space flea cake. Gets four points for being a cake. 5/10
Johnny - The man. 6/10
Yaridovitch - Thought his special power was being ticklish rather than tickling. Oh well, either's great. Also did stuff. 5/10
Birdo - DNR.
Valentina - SMRPG PLOT lulz. 2/10
Dodo - HE IMPERSONATED MALLOW. Gets a point because people apparently fell for it. 3/10
Axem Rangers - Hooray for sentai parodies! 5/10
Boomer - Who?
Exor - The space flea sword that cleaves castles! ...Or something. 1.5/10
Smithy - SMRPG PLOT lulz. 2/10
Culex - DNR.
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Bowser: If you don't remember who he is, you fail at gaming forever.
Croco: Dude stole your coinz. Also, bitchin' hat for a dinosaur.
Mack: Pogo-sword dude who uses Shysters to hold some poor Mushroom people hostage. Also has the first Star.
Belome: Doggie gonna eat you. Fight him like 400 times. "His charm point is his adorable tongue"
Bowyer: The first in a long series of anthromorphic Weaponry. As his name implies, he's a Bow. He likes shooting off and raining arrows on your team's head throughout the dungeon.
Punchinello: This one is an anthromorphic Bomb, despite the name.
Booster: Manliest guy in the mushroom kingdom? He ascribes to the Bowser school of matrimonial bliss.
Bundt: The cake is a lie.
Johnny: Pirate Shark!
Yaridovitch: 'Yari' is Japanese for spear, as in 'this guy is anthromorphic Spear'. The more you know~
Birdo: Pink, transvestite dinosaur who lays eyes from her -mouth-. :horrified: Debuted in Mario Bros 2.
Valentina: Known for ruining Mallow's family, taking over the Nimbus kingdom, and her enchanting jiggling.
Dodo: Valentina's right-hand Bird.
Axem Rangers: Red, Black, Pink, Green, and Yellow. Unsurprisingly, they all wield axes~
Boomer: He has a katana, that makes him pretty cool.
Exor: GIANT SWORD THAT CLEAVES THE HEAVENS Bowser's Keep!
Smithy: The 'mastermind' behind it all. He is a blacksmith who wants to fill the world with weapons~
Culex: Eww, you got Final Fantasy in my Mario game~
Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars
Bowser Koopa - 8.5. Iconic, plays with tropes and keeps the humor-level high during his story scenes.
Croco - 7.5. Works overall, though a bit annoying.
Mack - 4. Not really memorable, but works as an introduction to Smithy's army of anthromorphic weapons.
Belome - 7. Always felt he was memorable and amusing.
Bowyer - 4. Had some neat build-up during his dungeon.
Punchinello - 3. Meh.
Booster - 8. Manly. Should have been the main villain.
Bundt - 8.5. I take it back. Living Cake is the best part of this game.
Johnny - 7. Pirate Shark.
Yaridovitch - 3. Meh.
Birdo - DNR, but I thought I'd give her a chance.
Valentina - 5. The best of the 'serious' villains in SMRPG. Which is just average.
Dodo - 6.5. Dodo works as a bumbling henchman, though!
Axem Rangers - 7. Fun, memorable parody.
Boomer - 2.5 Somehow less memorable than Yaridovitch.
Exor - 4.5 Plotless, but memorable space flea.
Smithy - 6. Honestly, I'm gonna go ahead and say that Smithy works for what he is. SMRPG plot never really gets 'serious', but Smithy's plan are just dangerous enough to push the plot along without ever losing that humorous charm the world gives off.
Culex - 4. Space Flea Cameo!
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Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars
Bowser Koopa- 7/10. I like how the game handled the transition. The gradually deserting pool of minions, say.
Croco- 5/10. Worked, didn't stand out.
Mack- 4/10. MACK THE KNIFE!! Points for design at least.
Belome- 4/10. Design.
Bowyer- 2/10. zzz.
Punchinello- 5/10.
Booster- 7/10.
Bundt- 7/10. All design. Unlike other design, which is quirky and silly, Bundt is pure awesome with a side of frosting.
Johnny- 6/10.
Yaridovitch- 7/10. I dunno, the tickle torture worked for me.
Birdo- DNR.
Valentina- 5/10. I Snow.
Dodo- 3/10. Uh... well, head pecking minigame!!!?
Axem Rangers- 7/10.
Boomer- And that's all the further I got. Abstain
Exor- Abstain
Smithy- Abstain
Culex- DNR
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...Need more votes so I can get some reasonable averages.
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Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars
Bowser Koopa - 8.5. Iconic, plays with tropes and keeps the humor-level high during his story scenes.
Croco - 7.5. Works overall, though a bit annoying.
Mack - 4. Not really memorable, but works as an introduction to Smithy's army of anthromorphic weapons.
Belome - 7. Always felt he was memorable and amusing.
Bowyer - 4. Had some neat build-up during his dungeon.
Punchinello - 3. Meh.
Booster - 8. Manly. Should have been the main villain.
Bundt - 8.5. I take it back. Living Cake is the best part of this game.
Johnny - 7. Pirate Shark.
Yaridovitch - 3. Meh.
Birdo - DNR, but I thought I'd give her a chance.
Valentina - 5. The best of the 'serious' villains in SMRPG. Which is just average.
Dodo - 6.5. Dodo works as a bumbling henchman, though!
Axem Rangers - 7. Fun, memorable parody.
Boomer - 2.5 Somehow less memorable than Yaridovitch.
Exor - 4.5 Plotless, but memorable space flea.
Smithy - 6. Honestly, I'm gonna go ahead and say that Smithy works for what he is. SMRPG plot never really gets 'serious', but Smithy's plan are just dangerous enough to push the plot along without ever losing that humorous charm the world gives off.
Culex - 4. Space Flea Cameo!
These work, honestly.
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Bowser Koopa: 8/10
Croco: Don't remember
Mack: Don't remember
Belome: Don't remember!
Bowyer: 5/10.
Punchinello: 4/10
Booster: 8/10. hilarious.
Bundt: 7/10.
Johnny: 6/10.
Yaridovitch: 4/10.
Birdo: DNR
Valentina: 3/10
Dodo: DNR
Axem Rangers: 8/10.
Boomer: Don't remember?
Exor: Don't remember
Smithy: 3/10.
Culex: DNR
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Let's go crazy and give plot based ratings!
Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars
Bowser Koopa: 6
Croco: I forgot
Mack: I forgot
Belome: I f
Bowyer: o
Punchinello: r
Booster: g
Bundt: 0 (As a concept awesome! As a bad guy uh...DNR, but it's not getting those).
Johnny: o
Yaridovitch: t!
Birdo
Valentina: 2. I REMEMBER! Kinda wish I didn't.
Dodo
Axem Rangers
Boomer
Exor
Smithy: This thing was kind of annoying right?
Culex: DNR
0/DNR to anything I missed that actually wasn't a villain