The RPG Duelling League
RPG Debate => RPGDL Discussion => Topic started by: Jo'ou Ranbu on August 29, 2009, 04:56:19 AM
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Godlike:
Piastol (SoA) vs Celes Chere (FF6)
Avalon (LoL2) vs Rashidi (OB)
Arc Eda Ricolne (AtLC) vs Lamington (Disgaea)
Belial (WA4) vs Loki (VP1)
Heavy:
Fei Fong Wong (XG) vs Celia (FFT)
Richard (S5) vs Nephenee (FE9)
Jean (Lunar:EBC) vs Yulie Ahtreide (WA4)
Renee Kearse (MK) vs Erim (Lufias)
Middle:
Baal (G1) vs Kain Highwind (FF4)
Anna Lemouri (MK) vs Vormav Tingel (FFT)
Gryz (PS4) vs Aigis (P3)
Marcy (CC) vs Kanji Tatsumi (P4)
Light:
Landis (S3) vs Vaida (FE7)
Ard (WA2) vs Selphie Tilmitt (FF8)
Beecham (S3) vs Avril Vent Fleur (WA5)
Sanae Yamamoto (S3) vs Chester (SF2)
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Avalon (LoL2) vs Rashidi (OB) - Yet another blitzing match I'm not willing to give the benefit of doubt to Rashidi. This is rather close, but.
Belial (WA4) vs Loki (VP1) - Bah humbug.
Fei Fong Wong (XG) vs Celia (FFT) - lol ohko.
Jean (Lunar:EBC) vs Yulie Ahtreide (WA4) - EBO Jean, here. Which means she goes first, buffs a bit and smitates.
Renee Kearse (MK) vs Erim (Lufias) - Being faster and not 3HKOed = yeah Renee starts going crazy enough to win for me.
Middle:
Baal (G1) vs Kain Highwind (FF4) - This is horrible.
Anna Lemouri (MK) vs Vormav Tingel (FFT) - Vormav hits the Last Stand threshold on Anna. This, I think, juuuuuuust gives her the punch she needs to 2HKO for me.
Gryz (PS4) vs Aigis (P3) - Crash.
Marcy (CC) vs Kanji Tatsumi (P4) - Vastly outslugs.
Light:
Landis (S3) vs Vaida (FE7) - They... trade hits. Think Landis sorta manages to stun Vaida by his second attack, though, and he may avoid that 2HKO. Close.
Ard (WA2) vs Selphie Tilmitt (FF8) - no.
Sanae Yamamoto (S3) vs Chester (SF2) - buh. Both 4-5HKO each other. Chester starts faster. Sanae can have crits/evade going her way. I want this match to go away.
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Godlike:
Piastol (SoA) vs Celes Chere (FF6)- Eternum.
Avalon (LoL2) vs Rashidi (OB)- The Infinite One should get the OHKO. Huh. I always undersell Avalon's offense.
Arc Eda Ricolne (AtLC) vs Lamington (Disgaea)- Way the fuck too much defense for Arc.
Belial (WA4) vs Loki (VP1)- *MUTTER*
Heavy:
Fei Fong Wong (XG) vs Celia (FFT)
Jean (Lunar:EBC) vs Yulie Ahtreide (WA4)- Status.
Renee Kearse (MK) vs Erim (Lufias)- Erim's pretty bad when she isn't spoiling.
Middle:
Baal (G1) vs Kain Highwind (FF4)- Pass for now.
Anna Lemouri (MK) vs Vormav Tingel (FFT)- Anna's damage isn't good enough here. Vormav's evade/defense up should screw this up.
Marcy (CC) vs Kanji Tatsumi (P4)- Marcy vs a borderline Heavy.
Light:
Landis (S3) vs Vaida (FE7)- Stun lock. Vaida has no no chance here.
Ard (WA2) vs Selphie Tilmitt (FF8)- This fails.
Beecham (S3) vs Avril Vent Fleur (WA5)- You know, I've yet to get to vote on Beecham in the DL. What the hell.
Sanae Yamamoto (S3) vs Chester (SF2)- Chester's got good HP. Enough for me.
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Godlike:
Piastol (SoA) vs Celes Chere (FF6)
Avalon (LoL2) vs Rashidi (OB)
Arc Eda Ricolne (AtLC) vs Lamington (Disgaea)- Gut reaction, although Weak Enemy...could do it. Not fully sure.
Belial (WA4) vs Loki (VP1)- Indiscriminate smash and such.
Heavy:
Fei Fong Wong (XG) vs Celia (FFT)
Richard (S5) vs Nephenee (FE9)- OKHOs.
Jean (Lunar:EBC) vs Yulie Ahtreide (WA4)- Yulie is a status tank, especially after Protect. Throw in Haste for if Yulie does get statuses (meaning she gets out of it far quicker), and Yulie should eventually take this to me barring EBC Paralysis being awesome!
Renee Kearse (MK) vs Erim (Lufias)
Middle:
Baal (G1) vs Kain Highwind (FF4)- No argument exists for Kain here.
Anna Lemouri (MK) vs Vormav Tingel (FFT)- Low FFT boss HP respect, but low Anna respect too. Evade+PDef helps here.
Gryz (PS4) vs Aigis (P3)
Marcy (CC) vs Kanji Tatsumi (P4)
Light:
Landis (S3) vs Vaida (FE7)
Ard (WA2) vs Selphie Tilmitt (FF8)
Beecham (S3) vs Avril Vent Fleur (WA5)- Gut.
Sanae Yamamoto (S3) vs Chester (SF2)- Speed edge should give him this as they aren't too different otherwise (Likely both 4HKO each other)
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Godlike:
Piastol (SoA) vs Celes Chere (FF6): All hail the uberbitch.
Avalon (LoL2) vs Rashidi (OB): OHKO? Sure.
Arc Eda Ricolne (AtLC) vs Lamington (Disgaea): Infinite full healing.
Belial (WA4) vs Loki (VP1): Do I think 4 of her magic attacks win it? I guess I do.
Heavy:
Fei Fong Wong (XG) vs Celia (FFT): The sound of splattering.
Richard (S5) vs Nephenee (FE9): Super said his evade was nutty. I'll just buy into that.
Jean (Lunar:EBC) vs Yulie Ahtreide (WA4): Paralysis? Paralysis.
Renee Kearse (MK) vs Erim (Lufias): Renee's close with her physical offense, but I think Erim just outdoes it. The Mana's offense isn't really there since Erim Mirrors.
Middle:
Baal (G1) vs Kain Highwind (FF4): Not sure.
Anna Lemouri (MK) vs Vormav Tingel (FFT): Screw it. Hashaelum or whatever his face was is 3000% more valid as a form than Vormav.
Gryz (PS4) vs Aigis (P3): HATE.
Marcy (CC) vs Kanji Tatsumi (P4): Smash.
Light:
Landis (S3) vs Vaida (FE7): I assume he doubles? Anyways, Freeze or whatever works too.
Ard (WA2) vs Selphie Tilmitt (FF8): Not sure.
Beecham (S3) vs Avril Vent Fleur (WA5): Just guessing her offense is enough for this. I'll look at it later.
Sanae Yamamoto (S3) vs Chester (SF2): Cuter and therefore wins.
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Godlike:
Piastol (SoA) vs Celes Chere (FF6) - Goes first. Eternum. Next!
Belial (WA4) vs Loki (VP1) - Someday, Belial... someday...
Heavy:
Fei Fong Wong (XG) vs Celia (FFT) - Speed check goes to Fei. Celia explodes.
Jean (Lunar:EBC) vs Yulie Ahtreide (WA4) - ...ah, right. I forgot that Yulie's defense increases when she's statused. Think she'll be able to weather out the Paralysis (Four turns, according to the stat topic) if it gets in since she'll have Protect and Quicken by then. EDIT: And after a quickie check at the stat topic, saw that Protected Status'd Yulie still can't survive two Blue Dragon Fists with accompanying Slam Dance, which she's definitely eating once she's Paralyzed even with Quicken. Ah well, welcome to Heavy.
Middle:
Baal (G1) vs Kain Highwind (FF4) - It's sad when Boss healing can actually be hyped here <<
Light:
Landis (S3) vs Vaida (FE7) - Stun works.
Ard (WA2) vs Selphie Tilmitt (FF8) - Ard damage sucks enough for Selphie to hit limit and Full Cure.
Beecham (S3) vs Avril Vent Fleur (WA5) - Still thinking. I allow Avril the Mountain Medium without the stat boosts and see Ley Points as existing in the battle field. Beecham has 10 shots of full healing. Avril has 7 shots of Reinforce which seems to last ~15 turns of anyone. With the godly 5% mHP Ley Point regen!!! and casting Reinforce on the first turn, Avril should reach a Critical Heal before she gets killed. Now, I just need to hash out who runs out of resources first from there. (I think I'll just toss out Repels and Blockers/Retaliates since they seem to activate at roughly the same rate and things just get too headachy from there... >>)
By the way, if you allow Mountain Medium without stats, but don't allow Ley Points, I don't think Avril makes it to Level 3 FP. Going second kinda hurts. Yes, the 5% Regen!!! hype matters here <<
Why yes, I do like making things hard for myself. Why do you ask?
EDIT: Oh wait, I screwed up in my calculation! Avril juuuust misses the Critical Heal for me. <<;
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Jean (Lunar:EBC) vs Yulie Ahtreide (WA4) - Jean goes first, and even assuming Yulie manages to avoid paralysis the first time around and gets a protect off she still has below average physical durability.
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Better than Arnaud's at least!
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In practice, it's actually still far worse! Arnaud has the crazy evade, after all. But concrete, yeah.
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Light:
Landis (S3) vs Vaida (FE7) - Vaida. UPGRADE BAIT. Uber spear smash.
Ard (WA2) vs Selphie Tilmitt (FF8) - Selphie. Upgrade bait.
Beecham (S3) vs Avril Vent Fleur (WA5) - Avril...I think. Blah.
Sanae Yamamoto (S3) vs Chester (SF2)- Chester. Cuter, therefore wins.
Middle:
Baal (G1) vs Kain Highwind (FF4) - Baal. His Gaia form is good. Should probably grab stats for that....
Anna Lemouri (MK) vs Vormav Tingel (FFT) - Anna.
Gryz (PS4) vs Aigis (P3) - Aigis. Forget what Crash was saved by, but Attis has Enduring Soul and resists all physical damage, so...
Marcy (CC) vs Kanji Tatsumi (P4) - Kanji!
Heavy:
Fei Fong Wong (XG) vs Celia (FFT) - Celia, and fuck it all.
Richard (S5) vs Nephenee (FE9) - Nephenee. Cuter.
Jean (Lunar:EBC) vs Yulie Ahtreide (WA4) - Jean. Fierce Fist hype, maybe?
Renee Kearse (MK) vs Erim (Lufias) - Erim. L3 is good enough for this.
Godlike:
Piastol (SoA) vs Celes Chere (FF6) - Piastol. Duh.
Avalon (LoL2) vs Rashidi (OB) - Avalon. Rashidi dies too fast.
Arc Eda Ricolne (AtLC) vs Lamington (Disgaea) - Lamington.
Belial (WA4) vs Loki (VP1) - Loki.
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Godlike:
Piastol (SoA) vs Celes Chere (FF6)
Avalon (LoL2) vs Rashidi (OB): Kills Avalon before he can act, making his OHKO irrelevant. God, I sound like snow with this anlaysis...
Arc Eda Ricolne (AtLC) vs Lamington (Disgaea): Again, goes first and OHKO.
Belial (WA4) vs Loki (VP1): Been over this in the tourney board. See Pyro, in short.
Heavy:
Fei Fong Wong (XG) vs Celia (FFT)
Richard (S5) vs Nephenee (FE9): Chip, falcon smash. Nephenee gets an attack and a counter and 2HKOs, but she'll miss once.
Jean (Lunar:EBC) vs Yulie Ahtreide (WA4)
Renee Kearse (MK) vs Erim (Lufias): I have a good amount of respect for both of them, but... see snow, basically.
Middle:
Baal (G1) vs Kain Highwind (FF4)
Anna Lemouri (MK) vs Vormav Tingel (FFT)
Marcy (CC) vs Kanji Tatsumi (P4)
Light:
Landis (S3) vs Vaida (FE7)
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Piastol (SoA) vs Celes Chere (FF6)
Avalon (LoL2) vs Rashidi (OB)
Arc Eda Ricolne (AtLC) vs Lamington (Disgaea)- Inviniclble. Healing.
Belial (WA4) vs Loki (VP1)
Heavy:
Fei Fong Wong (XG) vs Celia (FFT)- Splat (though if you see Celia as faster she wins)
Richard (S5) vs Nephenee (FE9)- Think his evade lets him win
Jean (Lunar:EBC) vs Yulie Ahtreide (WA4)
Renee Kearse (MK) vs Erim (Lufias)- Lufia 3 form for godlike!
Middle:
Baal (G1) vs Kain Highwind (FF4)
Anna Lemouri (MK) vs Vormav Tingel (FFT)
Gryz (PS4) vs Aigis (P3)- LOL ID to robots vs a robot
Marcy (CC) vs Kanji Tatsumi (P4)
Light:
Landis (S3) vs Vaida (FE7)- UBER Spear. That and Landis may have speed, but he swings slow. If your going second Freeze is worthless.
Ard (WA2) vs Selphie Tilmitt (FF8)- I played enough of WA2 before my PS2 stopped reading it to see Ard. LOL ARD.
Beecham (S3) vs Avril Vent Fleur (WA5)
Sanae Yamamoto (S3) vs Chester (SF2)
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Godlike:
Belial (WA4) vs Loki (VP1): I used to see Loki as durable enough to tank 4 Agony Effects, but now I dunno. So the question becomes if Loki can just OHKO with Dragon Orb. Very close either way. Hmm.
Heavy:
Fei Fong Wong (XG) vs Celia (FFT): Think he's barely faster. "Better dueller" works as a tiebreak.
Richard (S5) vs Nephenee (FE9): Richard does indeed have great evade, but only against melee attacks, and not at all against counters. Neph starts with a Silver equipped, switches to a Javelin on her own turns. If Richard 2HKOs, he wins; if he 3HKOs, he loses. Neph is above average pdur and has weapon triangle, but... probably not good enough anyway.
Jean (Lunar:EBC) vs Yulie Ahtreide (WA4): Not sure I have much respect for status dances, but... Yulie really does hate Slam Dance, offhand. Will look at this more closely.
Renee Kearse (MK) vs Erim (Lufias): Not close!
Middle:
Baal (G1) vs Kain Highwind (FF4): If Dhyer says there's no argument, I doubt there is.
Anna Lemouri (MK) vs Vormav Tingel (FFT): Scrub-off. I'll think about it.
Light:
Landis (S3) vs Vaida (FE7): Freeze works fine when you're slower, unless I'm going crazy. If it doesn't, then Vaida definitely takes this, so I should confirm...
Ard (WA2) vs Selphie Tilmitt (FF8): Whatever.
Beecham (S3) vs Avril Vent Fleur (WA5): I forget if Avril 2HKOs average, but Beecham's below, so guessing she does here. May check the numbers when I'm non-lazy.
Sanae Yamamoto (S3) vs Chester (SF2): I imagine evasion tilts this.
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Jean (Lunar:EBC) vs Yulie Ahtreide (WA4) - Jean goes first, and even assuming Yulie manages to avoid paralysis the first time around and gets a protect off she still has below average physical durability.
Considering the status dances are 50%, and Yulie reduces status to start with, I'd say Yulie managing to avoid paralysis the first time is the logical assumption.
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Yulie reduces status? I thought WA4 Mdef didn't matter for status resistance (or Lunar for that matter)
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I thought MDef managed to matter for WA4 status, although that may have just been Jude or me getting unlucky. However, what Dhyer means is that Yulie's usually worthless armor ability (her defenses get a boost when she's statused) matters here. And I'm pretty sure MDef mattered for SSSC status resistance, at least! Nash sorta mocked status for me (granted, he was also twinked for Luck. That may have been it).
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It might matter for character statuses, but doesn't for hex statuses. Never been formally tested, but I've heard a few other people claim seeing lower status rates on the higher magic defense people?
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Yeah, I thought that was the claim too. Granted, not even sure my vote changes if it doesn't, but at least it's pretty close then.
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It might matter for character statuses, but doesn't for hex statuses. Never been formally tested, but I've heard a few other people claim seeing lower status rates on the higher magic defense people?
The status I've saw it mattering for were non-hex status, at least.
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Godlike:
Piastol (SoA) vs Celes Chere (FF6)
Light:
Landis (S3) vs Vaida (FE7) - Unless it turns out that Stun doesn't help when you go second, since Vaida kills before permastun.
Beecham (S3) vs Avril Vent Fleur (WA5)
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Godlike:
Piastol (SoA) vs Celes Chere (FF6) - Not even the most favorable view of MBlock is going to stop Eternum here. Especially given that Piastol's going first and probably insta-doubles Celes enough to try it twice before Celes can move. FF6 girls need to stop dying first round...
Avalon (LoL2) vs Rashidi (OB) - LOLRashidi
Arc Eda Ricolne (AtLC) vs Lamington (Disgaea) - Not OHKO'd. Invincible->Weak Enemy->Profit.
Belial (WA4) vs Loki (VP1) - Draw a PC, dammit!
Heavy:
Fei Fong Wong (XG) vs Celia (FFT) - Faster, Yamikei'd.
Richard (S5) vs Nephenee (FE9) - thinking WTA overcomes accuracy deficiency
Jean (Lunar:EBC) vs Yulie Ahtreide (WA4) - Jean speed, Yulie durability.
Renee Kearse (MK) vs Erim (Lufias) - L3 Erim~
Middle:
Baal (G1) vs Kain Highwind (FF4) - ...Dammit Kain! Why must you RUIN EVERYTHING?!
Anna Lemouri (MK) vs Vormav Tingel (FFT) - Hey, Vormav finally got a match.
Gryz (PS4) vs Aigis (P3) - Robot ID.
Marcy (CC) vs Kanji Tatsumi (P4) - Marcy's a Middle?
Light:
Landis (S3) vs Vaida (FE7) - apathy.
Ard (WA2) vs Selphie Tilmitt (FF8) - Ard can't avoid the Limit. Feeling generous enough to let Selphie pull off a Triple Flare and call it a victory.
Beecham (S3) vs Avril Vent Fleur (WA5) - I take the WA5 cast with Mediums... Avril gets Mountain. This doesn't help her damage much... Beecham crits before Avril does.
Sanae Yamamoto (S3) vs Chester (SF2) - Durability edge is enough.
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I've been seeing those silent Selphie > Ard votes and I can't help but wonder -why- is being unable to avoid the limit range used as justification. Ard's damage borderline 3HKOs average (thus, should 3HKO Selphie), and he can chip to avoid the horrible limit range himself due to having lower damage attacks, and Selphie herself is a horrible damage failure. I'd even argue Meeple's HP on the topic is a bit on the high side, which gives him a clearer 3HKO, but that's neither here or there. I dunno, maybe Selphie -could win anyway- (Ard -is- very slow and frail), but the limit doesn't sound like the way to do it.
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Well, he's slow, and I think his good damage more likely 4HKOs (3.3HKOs?) average. Enough to just knock Selphie into Limit Range. And as you said, he's pretty slow. It was more of a kneejerk reaction, so I could be swayed, but I just didn't remember Ard's damage being very good.
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Well, it isn't very good at all, but low 3HKO (Selphie -should- be a bit below average, which tilts the scales) is basically -the- perfect 3HKO range to avoid FF8 limits. 25% threshold and all.
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I was under the impression that the FF8 limit range started at 33% (Which is why Zell got votes over Kongol)?
For Richard versus Nephenee, seems like he doesn't have any issues 2HKOing her (Full WTA might let him not OHKO, but 2400 S5 damage should take care of Neph pretty easily).
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I was under the impression that the FF8 limit range started at 33% (Which is why Zell got votes over Kongol)?
I think it starts at 33% if there are other conditions raising that threshold (like status, dead allies). Could be wrong, but 33% for the limit range to kick in does seem a bit high in the DL environment.
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Think 33% might be when the chance of it kicking in occurs. Granted, I might have much respect there, but given Ard's speed and that some type of full curing should probably come up pretty quick, makes the match at least close to me. I guess I'd need to know actual limit breakdown.
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FF8 characters definitely limit at ~33%, no need for dead allies or status or anything like that.
The interp question is whether the character limits in time if they are chipped to 31% health or the like, since you have to hammer the menu button longer at higher HP, so there is a bit of a lag before the limit actually comes up. Assuming the player is even half-decent at hitting a button quickly and then stopping when a distinctive tone sounds, though, an FF8 character shouldn't get lapped while waiting for the limit to come up unless they're facing WA4 boss-level speed. Admittedly, if it's relevant for anyone, it's relevant for Selphie since she then has to spend MORE time looking for a Full Cure... but against Ard level speed, that's not really an issue.
Fei Fong Wong (XG) vs Celia (FFT) - This really is a tie, but inclined to tiebreak against Fei because Maria in the land-averages making everyone else look awesome is slightly shaky. She's blatantly meant to be a mech-only character even if they do force you to use her for one dungeon. If she's counted even slightly less in the averages, the average speed goes up a bit and Fei loses the tiebreak.
Richard (S5) vs Nephenee (FE9) - Oooh good match. Inclined to think that Nephenee doesn't quite make the 2HKO, though.
Jean (Lunar:EBC) vs Yulie Ahtreide (WA4) - Lack of respect for Yulie's ability to pressure means that even if it takes some time for Jean to status Yulie, she has it.
Baal (G1) vs Kain Highwind (FF4) - .. man, the stat topic claims that Kain's damage is worse than I remembered. Because if his jump could even do a mere ~50% PCHP or so, I'd be inclined to let him win.
Ard (WA2) vs Selphie Tilmitt (FF8) - See above.
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Dhyer: No Swallow crits (OPB moves doing things like that is just no, to me) mean the damage is closer to 1600 than 2400.
People are really overrating FF8 limits here, as usual. No way are they turn 1 at 33%. Additionally, if she does get one, she isn't using Full Cure, which risks botching a limit next time it comes up, but just killing with a half-decent attack spell. On the other hand, Selphie outslugging with her physical doesn't seem horribly wrong here, so I won't be horribly disappointed if the match goes the other way. Just grah.
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Fei Fong Wong (XG) vs Celia (FFT) - This really is a tie, but inclined to tiebreak against Fei because Maria in the land-averages making everyone else look awesome is slightly shaky. She's blatantly meant to be a mech-only character even if they do force you to use her for one dungeon. If she's counted even slightly less in the averages, the average speed goes up a bit and Fei loses the tiebreak.
Quite apart from being strongly opposed philosophically to such an interp (it makes the entire cast more boring), and ignoring that Maria is in fact ranked and thus must be in the averages, this is also silly because however much the game makes it obvious that Siebzhen >>> Maria as a character, you are still forced to use Maria on foot. It's a reasonably long dungeon, in fact.
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FF8 PCs without speed junctions get tons of cracks at triggering a limit, though even then it's pretty unlikely at the minimum threshold. My own kneejerk has always been that 25% HP is needed to get one reliably, but it's been a long time since I've had characters without speed junctioned so my opinion might be skewed - I don't have access to the game right now to doublecheck.
For what it's worth Selphie also struggles with the need to reroll for something non-fail, which makes her limit pretty useless after you get Speed-J unless you cheat with ejecting the disc. She should have less margin than the rest of the cast in the DL.
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Selphie: Yeah, actually, since Ard is kinda meh on durability, Selphie has it even easier. Full Cure still wins it for her, but so does any attack magic, so she doesn't have to spend too much time hunting about. As for the respect split in how long it takes for her to get a limit... this might be an ATB interp split? I generally hold FF4-9 PCs to a full party doing actions (most notable for FF9's case, where characters like Zidane and Lani go from being theoretically super-fast alone to actually just having a fast first turn and then being averageish after). If Selphie's fighting alone, then it does take more "time" effectively thanks to the magic of ATB.
Fei Fong Wong (XG) vs Celia (FFT) - This really is a tie, but inclined to tiebreak against Fei because Maria in the land-averages making everyone else look awesome is slightly shaky. She's blatantly meant to be a mech-only character even if they do force you to use her for one dungeon. If she's counted even slightly less in the averages, the average speed goes up a bit and Fei loses the tiebreak.
Quite apart from being strongly opposed philosophically to such an interp (it makes the entire cast more boring), and ignoring that Maria is in fact ranked and thus must be in the averages, this is also silly because however much the game makes it obvious that Siebzhen >>> Maria as a character, you are still forced to use Maria on foot. It's a reasonably long dungeon, in fact.
Well, it is just a tiebreaker (though I don't follow about making the cast more boring). I don't think it's unfair as a tiebreaker, since... well, Maria doesn't have deathblows. Has anyone ever seriously used her outside of that forced dungeon (which I mentioned)? And again, for tiebreaking purposes, all that matters is adjusting her to 80% of a character, and there you go. If you find this unsatisfactory I'll use Dark Holy Elf's tiebreak of "better in game" except in reverse: Fei was okay in XG for me, but hardly MVP. Slightly better than Elly, about as good as Emeralda, but beaten out by Citan & Billy in in-game use. Meanwhile Celia & Lede are ARGH RIOVANES CASTLE ROOF.
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Given how the true difficulty in Riovanes Castle Roof stems from Rafa's suicidally retarded AI, I'm not sure that's a very fair tiebreak. >_> I mean, Celia is even the least scary of the assassins in-game due to how proper enough statusblocking leads her AI to use her shoddy offense instead of the heart-stopping status.
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For the record I heartilly agree with Celia > Fei in-game. Not sure what comment Snowfire was reversing. <_<
I am voting for Fei but I will shed no tears if the guy who relies on a Level 80 move loses.
EDIT: Snow, it's nearly impossible to block all of Celia's status in-game (needs a Barette/Ribbon). The AI exploit to get her to use crappy damage generally involves having HP so bad she can OHKO with Ultima, and then you kill her/someone else while she's charging since she'd rather kill with damage than use status.
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Ah, right. I guess I was just mixing it up with the -other- fight where I had to exploit AI failures to get Ultima. Then, how did I steamroll the Riovanes Castle fight in my replay?
EDIT: Wait, I remember. Ninja could reach one of the assassins' walking range and divert attention so the mages made the boomies happen. And sorry about the derailment.
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I'm pretty sure a proper Ninja could actually reach an assassin and kill them... (maybe two?)
Also, I think I will switch my vote on Lamington/Arc. I don't believe Weak Enemy should hit there and Arc can't do anything outside of that. The question of whether or not WE works is a valid one I guess, but Arc just doesn't have a chance outside of that. At worst Lamington eventually scores a critical hit.
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The map ends after any one enemy is reduced to critical HP, so...
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Fei Fong Wong (XG) vs Celia (FFT) - This really is a tie, but inclined to tiebreak against Fei because Maria in the land-averages making everyone else look awesome is slightly shaky. She's blatantly meant to be a mech-only character even if they do force you to use her for one dungeon. If she's counted even slightly less in the averages, the average speed goes up a bit and Fei loses the tiebreak.
While I see where you are coming from with this, many games have some fodder characters that have nearly no use for any reason (Although, at least Maria is usuable in gears, which is more than I can say for a lot of worthless fodder characters). I certainly might not factor in Maria when I consider what XG foot bosses face, but the fact that she sucks isn't really reason to not include her. There are a few PCs I can see as exceptions (Non-star Suikoden characters, for instance), but Maria is more than valid enough. If this was a case where Maria was good on foot in game but for some reason gets notably worse in the DL (Raja or the anti-Dragon character in PS 2 for instance), I could see the validation (Since I do deal with characters like that a bit differently).