The RPG Duelling League
RPGDL Games => Forum Games => Topic started by: Excal on December 09, 2009, 05:46:14 PM
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The henchmen's convention is usually a lively affair. After all, it's one of the few times when henchs can sit down and relax without either getting told to face off against some heros, or to go and do the hard work while some pretty boy wanders off with the glory. The first death was no real surprise, as Nodwick usually gets himself offed, and death is no stranger, or even a final end, to some of these folks. However, when the toll started mounting, some folks finally put two and two together. At which point, a list of suspects was hastily made, and an ages old solution decided upon. Lock 'em all up in a small room, and let 'em deal with each other. That way everyone else can get back to enjoying themselves.
And so it begins.
Days are 72 hours long, no extensions. If there is no majority, person with the most votes gets lynched. If there is a tie, there will 8. Tonybe sudden death. No deadline for LYLO. Also, purposefully inflicted suicide will end the day.
While the characters may be mad, the roles are not. Non-standard roles are thusly limited in scope and power.
Each night scum must kill, and each day town must lynch.
Also, standard rules are in effect. Mostly, use common sense, and don't talk about the ensative stuff outside of the context of the game.
And, with no further adieu...
Alive and Henchin'
3. Dick Gumshoe
5. Guildenstern
6. Oddjob
9. Waylon Smithers
11. Whim
Dead and Unmasked.
7. Prinny Squad (Town Ghostwriter) - Detonated Day 1
1. Ard (Town Doctor) - Dialated Night 1
10. Weasel Squad - Haberdasheried - Day 2
8. Tony - Flayed Night 2
4. Gilgamesh (Scum Roleblocker) - Lynched Day 3
2. Axem Rangers (Town Cop) - Killed Night 3
Start of Day 2 (http://"www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89994#msg89994")
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Votes:
None
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. 72 hours remain.
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Look, I'm not here to mess around! *pushes Gumshoe on the ground*
This guy looks like he might be secretly Vayne!
##VOTE: Dick Gumshoe
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T-Tony-sensei! You always told us you were the best!! The best can't be someone's underling, deshou?!?!?!
##VOTE: Tony-sensei
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ARD. Ardardard. Ard ard. Arrrd.
Liz: Ard says that what someone looks like is no basis to determine guilt. This should be determined SCIENTIFICALLY. And he's right--our newly-invented Guilt Spectrometer Flugellation Device is able to discern a henchperson's culpability to within 99.8576% accuracy (with a 10% margin of error on Tuesdays, unless it's cloudy). So I'll just point the Flugellator Appendage at people at random and...oh my!!! Look at those lights blinking!
##VOTE: Guildenstern
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(http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/7799/weasel2.jpg) Who the heck to theeeze leeezards think they are? I don't like them.
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2853/weasel1.png) Hey, you'se be quiet. I'm runnin' this show. We's gots to get to conjugatin' this problem, you see? I for one ain't trustin' no non-toon at the moment. So I think that fella Oddjob be the rat.
##Vote: Oddjob
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##VOTE: Dick Gumshoe
Those muscles are just criminal.
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##Vote: Whim
/me starts dancing around
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Look, Whim, I don't need your talking back! I-I-I'm independent! But you know, I work for that shmuck Zeppel and that bitch Isolde to pay the bills...
Just because I'm a henchman doesn't mean I have to like it *sulk*.
Hey hey HEY now, hating on Gumshoe because of his muscles! What kinda lameass reason is that?
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ARD. Ard ard. Ard ard ard ard ard.
Liz: Ard says that Tony and Whim knowing each other might be a sign that they're working together to kill the rest of us! Let me just apply the Guilt Spectrometer here, and...Another positive reading! It also implicates the Prinny Squad and the Weasels and Ard and me and...
Maybe we should go back to the drawing board with this one.
##Unvote: Guildenstern
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Hey, I thought this was the convention! Where's the buffet?
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Ugh, Yellow, don't be so disgusting!
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Hey, Red! Look over there at those overgrown rats! They're stealing our gimmick!
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Shaddup, all of you! We're not here to fool around.
Black's got a point, though. Weasels! What's the deal? You think you can out-do the Axem Rangers? Smithy builds 'em much better than that!
##Vote: Weasel Squad
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ARD! Stop being such a WUSS! If we are going to catch those NEFARIOUS heroes who dare to invade our convention, we have to be decisive! Not having a vote down does not HELP the cause!
You're pretty large and non-hero-like... BUT I STILL DON'T TRUST YOU!
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(http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/6007/weasel3.jpg) EHEHEHEHEHEHE! COLORS!
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2853/weasel1.png) Shut up, ya louse! 'Dis Axem Squad's raisin' my brow.
(http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/421/weasel4.jpg) Duhh... dere's 4 of dem...
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2853/weasel1.png) Did I say you could talk!? Anyway, 'dis Axem Squad approximatin' 4 accounts just ain't right! Not that it couldn't just be some low down doity trick, but it's unusual enough to make even my not so clean nose turn up.
##Unvote: Oddjob
##Vote: Axem Rangers
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None of you clowns look like worthy opponents! Some of you even had to show up in groups, you cowards!
##Vote: Axem Rangers Time to thin out the numbers, don't you think?
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Act I. Scene I.
Enter Rosencrantz, flipping a coin.
Rosencrantz
Heads.
Heads.
Heads.
Heads.
Heads.
Heads.
Heads.
Heads.
Guildenstern
A weaker man might be moved to re-examine his faith, or if nothing else at least the laws of probability...
Rosencrantz
Heads.
Heads.
Heads.
Heads.
Heads.
Guildenstern
That's... 78 in a row, now. The odds of the next flip being heads would be, let's see... two to the seventy-ninth, inversed... something very small.
Rosencrantz
Heads.
Guildenstern
Quite clearly we are now held within un-, sub-, or super-natural forces. Perhaps we can put this to good use.
Rosencrantz
Heads.
Guildenstern
What would be the odds of randomly selecting the killer at this convention? Astronomical, for sure. Practically impossible.
Enter Hamlet.
Hamlet
Hail, "friends." Wherefore do thy speak in such strange tongues?
Are you afflicted with moon-madness?
Your iambic pentameter, taught in
so many high school classes, lies a-wanting.
Rosencrantz
I think we're riffing on Tom Stoppard at the moment, and he's from the 1960s, so it's like cool and stuff. You wouldn't happen to have a 10-sided die, would you?
Hamlet
Oh. Far out, daddy-o. Radical. Sure I do, I played D&D at Wittenberg College. You can borrow my whole set. Anyway, I'm off to go sulk.
Exuent Hamlet
Guildenstern
The odds of this die randomly selecting the killer are so bad it's practically guaranteed to happen. Let's see what our Infinite Improbability die says.
Rosencrantz
##VOTE Weasel Squad
Guildenstern
Of course! Weasels. It was almost too obvious.
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Day 1
Gumshoe (2): Tony, Smithers
Tony (1): Whim
Guildenstern (0): Ard
Oddjob (0): Weasels
Whim (1): Prinnies
Weasels (2): Axem Rangers, Guildenstern
Axem Rangers (2): Weasels, Gilgamesh
With 11 alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch.
66 Hours remain in Day 1.
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(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2853/weasel1.png) Now what makes you say that?
(http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/7799/weasel2.jpg) I don't like heem. Heem and heez silly pantaloons.
(http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/4503/weasel5.jpg) *Coughcough* Filler *Cough*
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2853/weasel1.png) Thats enough outta youse guys! Anyway, I suppose we's best be movin' to more serious argumentatives, or else we're gonna be up to our necks in these longtype postins that don't say much and whatnot. I still wants to know whats up wit dem Axem Rangers. Might be nothin', but multiple accounts for the same character ain't sittin' pretty here.
(http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/6007/weasel3.jpg) BUT THEY'RE FUN~~~~~
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2853/weasel1.png) Hey, we're workin' here! We jus wants to start hearin' from people, see?
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Eto... Guildenstern-san, after flipping heads 78 times, the odds of the next flip being heads is 50%. Gomen.
##UNVOTE: Tony-sensei
Ano, Weasel Buntai, if you want to move to serious discussion... eto... wouldn't it be better to do as you say?
Gomen, but pressing the Axem Rangers for being a buntai as well is, ano... not helpful. You're just repeating your joke vote!
##VOTE: Weasel Buntai
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Ardardard. Ard ard. ARD. Ard ard ard.
Liz: Ard says that the maid is correct, Guildenstern--the odds of your next coinflip being heads will always be exactly 50%, not an iota more or less! Your previous experience with coinflipping in no way affects your future experience with coinflipping! I would also suggest closer examination of the science quarter involved in your experiment. It may not be properly calibrated. For example, does the piece of coinage actually display different iconography on each side?
Two of us have not yet spoken! Dick Gumshoe, Oddjob, where are these fine gentlemen? Your presence is required as a necessary part of deliberations! This experime--er, criminal investigation, yes, that's it--cannot proceed without sufficient data for correlation!
ARD. Ardardard.
Liz: Yes, I was just getting to that! Ard reminds me that the maid is also correct to closely analyze the weasel gang's suspicion of the Axem rangers (of course, this is elementary--all aspects of any situation most be closely examined before a proper conclusion can be drawn). The method of the Axems' communication may be unwieldy and take up extra space, but this in itself is not suspicious! If time goes on and the Axems continue to utilize this method of communication without providing substantial observational data then we may be able to theorize that they seek to present the appearance of contribution without the substance of contribution, but it is too early to rule conclusively on this matter. Thus we find it appropriate to press the weasel gang for further explanation of their vote!
##Vote: Weasels
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(http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy156/Detekative/gumshoe-pumpedb.gif)
Alright, pal, don't think you can escape from me! I'm an ace detective, and I've learnt a thing or two about this whole criminal catching thing!
Best way I've found to find the criminal is to... judge on looks! Just take a look at that Sahwit, pal! And here? There's somethin' fishy about that Oddjob. He seems kinda, you know, odd.
##Vote: Oddjob
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Axem's markedly uncollected henching is annoying, but no more murderous than the next underpaid worker.
The weasels are far more weasely from pushing this. Evidence we might need, but forcing it out of something completely non-existent doesn't help a lick.
Edit: Okay, so I was about to vote for the weasels too, but it looks like henchman syndrome has set in and I've fallen on the same train as several others for basically the same reason, and it's far too early to push them as close to the barbecue as I would be.
FoS: Weasels
Edit 2: Post failure and the well-muscled Dick rears his head.
##UNVOTE: Dick Gumshoe
New vote to hopefully follow shortly, if there's anything beyond the rascally weasels. Looking to get this out while the connection holds.
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/me stops dancing
Dood!? That's three of you saying a lot of nothing! Ard, Liz, and Whim, dood. You pick out a minor detail, then blow some smoke by repeating the weasels in what we should do, and that ain't cool, dood! It's like your holding out on the paycheck! Also, why are you both accusing the weasel squad of saying nothing, when there was nothing to go off of, dood? But I guess Liz is better than the Whim--maybe even Ard, too, dood! They made a much-needed call to Gumshoe and Oddjob.
Also, dood, the weasels are at 4 votes now. What are you trying to do!? Is this... squad prejudice, dood!?
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(http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy156/Detekative/gumshoe-headscratch.gif)
Hey! Much-needed call? Some of us have to work, pal! Just 'cause you guys can slack off when you like, doesn't mean the rest of us can!
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Ard: Tardiness is a firable offense, comparable only to being ill, but at the convention even I think we should loosen up a bit about it. The party's barely started and you're raising doubts on those yet to hench down, even though Dick's physique speaks for itself, and Mr. Job is a registered mute (the organisation to find a pad of paper, pens and a translator alone is reason enough).
And far be it from me to criticize... indulging your character... but unless you're working unpaid overtime we're running quickly into the unnecessary with all the odds. Your thoughts are basically identical to your neighbor Whim's except far more verbose. Following the same line doesn't bother me - and I've gone partially in the same direction myself - but the bad sort of fluff does.
##VOTE: Ard
I'm perturbed by the early cage-rattling from both you and the weasels.
Edit: Prinny Squad: and now you're trying to back the call for the quiet this early on? And Whim looking worse than Ard? Wait what. Ard looked dubious, but the prinnies just look wrong.
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ARD.
Liz: Oh my! We hadn't noticed the Axems' vote on the weasels when we placed our own, Prinny Squad. 66.666666667% of the way towards termination is rather far for this early in the day. The vote will stand for experimental purposes, however, and because there is still little else to comment on.
Ard ard ard!
Liz: Mr. Dick Gumshoe, if you lack free time, Ard suggests acquiring a position in the prestigious field of mad scien--er, perfectly legitimate technological research, yes. We can make our own hours! Yes, we're presently working on a device to add actual REAL time to the standard 24-hour Filgaian day. It's a very exciting project that I may explain to you all once you have acquired the necessary scientific knowledge to actually comprehend it.
ARD ARD.
Liz: Oh, Ard informs me that we've received an inquiry from Mr. Smithers as well. Smithers, perhaps you took our call for the presence of Gumshoe and Oddjob too seriously? We declared our desire to hear from these individuals, yes. We did not declare the fact of their not-yet-posting to be especially damnable or incriminating, or worthy of punishment. It is not, given the early hour of the day. If you are having difficulty understanding us, I ask that you cite specific examples that are unclear! I make every effort to translate Ard's musings for the masses, but he is so many leagues above the average parvenue that only so much can be done.
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Act I. Scene II.
Enter Rosencrantz and Guildenstern, examining a coin.
Guildenstern
A heads side and a tails side, indeed.
Rosencrantz
And I thought that the lizard might have had a point there, too.
Guildenstern
And a 50% chance no matter what? Why, that'd claim that coin flips were independent events. Is that what they're teaching in universities nowadays?
Rosencrantz
It's almost be like our fates are not controlled by some unseen hand, manipulating us for some grand purpose we cannot see.
Enter ATTACK PENGUINS
Prinny Squad
Dood!? That's three of you saying a lot of nothing! Ard, Liz, and Whim, dood. You pick out a minor detail, then blow some smoke, etc., etc. (snip). Is this... squad prejudice, dood!?
Rosencrantz
Quite right. An employer who might have needed five henchmen can just hire one cheap squad for a fifth of the price. They're ruining the pay curve! Restrict squad immigration!
Guildenstern
I would suggest a nice warm cup of Danish mead to calm everyone down, including our antarctic friends. The vote shall stay upon the (Weasel) Squad for now, both because I find it inconcieveable our random die could be wrong, and because that was a rather weak thrust at our Rangers, as our maid noted.
Rosencrantz
With so few clues, we need a detective to shine light. While we all hope Mr. Job shows his face soon, do you have any other thoughts, Sir Gumshoe? Perhaps your investigation has turned something up.
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(http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/421/weasel4.jpg) Duhh... dere's 4 of dem...
There's actually five of us! I'm just late because everyone else always forgets I'm not good at this physical activity thing.
Axem's markedly uncollected henching is annoying, but no more murderous than the next underpaid worker.
Hey, pal, we like what we do! If you don't, take it up with Smithy!
So, what, we have secret murderers on the loose now? Pathetic. Where's the fun of open warfare? Bunch of cowards if you ask me.
I see the Weasels getting a lot of attention for voting us. That's what they deserve for suspecting us in the first place AND for trying to imitate us, sure, but what about that Gilgamesh guy? He voted for us too and everyone else completely glossed over him. I smell a rat instead of a weasel. Something's up with Ard and Smithers, and probably Gilgamesh too.
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Hey, Green, you missed Whim!
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No I didn't. Whim voted for the Weasels for repeating a joke vote, not for being quick to jump on us for no reason. Ars and Smithers did the latter and didn't talk about Gilgamesh like they should have.
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Yeah, Green's right!
##Vote: Ard
##Axe of Suspicion: Smithers
What are you guys doing, leaving a blind spot open like that? You should never let your guard down around potential enemies!
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Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrd. Ard.
Liz: Yes, Ard, the Axem assault is rather undirected, isn't it, despite it culminating in a vote? Why, take a look at this paragraph:
I see the Weasels getting a lot of attention for voting us. That's what they deserve for suspecting us in the first place AND for trying to imitate us, sure, but what about that Gilgamesh guy? He voted for us too and everyone else completely glossed over him. I smell a rat instead of a weasel. Something's up with Ard and Smithers, and probably Gilgamesh too.
Axem Green simultaneously casts suspicion over 36.36363636% of the henchpeople present, almost as though sowing the seeds of multiple cases in the hopes that one of them, any of them, will take root. This is not the proper way to conduct an experiment! True research should be focused! Organized! Properly nomenclatured! Not so focused and organized that you blind yourself to alternate theories, of course, but we at ArdLiz Research Enterprises hazard that pointing the finger(s) at four different entities at once is hardly constructive.
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Ano, Weasel Buntai, if you want to move to serious discussion... eto... wouldn't it be better to do as you say?
Gomen, but pressing the Axem Rangers for being a buntai as well is, ano... not helpful. You're just repeating your joke vote!
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2853/weasel1.png) Now see here, goily, whats wrong with askin a little question? Putting a little pressure on and whatnot? Where do you be layin' down the line between whats a joke vote and attempts at starting discussion? That be arbitrarylike. But the rainbow group's got a point. We gots people skippin' over legitimate suspects here... but someone else be settin' off the alarms in my head more.
(http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/6007/weasel3.jpg) HEHEHEHEHEHE SHAKESPEARE~~~~
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2853/weasel1.png) Hey, for someone who is crazier than halfa Toon Town, you gots a point. 'Dis guy comes in here with his hoity toity speech, but in the end all he does is find a flimsy excuse to back up his joke vote and continue to say nothin'.
(http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/7799/weasel2.jpg) What about that leedle leezard?
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2853/weasel1.png) At least Ard be talkin about other people. Guildenstoin just be name dropping people without really saying anything so far. He's trying to lay all low like while hidin' behind his fancy talk. Dats where I be corrugatin' my vote.
##Unvote: Axem Rangers
##Vote: Guildenstern
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Please good sirs, unvote before you vote else your vote shall count not. As such, the most recent Axem Ranger vote on Ard is null and void, the Axem vote remaining on the Weasel Squad. On that note...
Day 1
Gumshoe (1): Tony, Smithers
Tony (0): Whim
Guildenstern (1): Ard, Weasels
Oddjob (1): Weasels, Gumshoe
Whim (1): Prinnies
Weasels (4): Axem Rangers, Guildenstern, Whim, Ard
Axem Rangers (1): Weasels, Gilgamesh
Ard (1): Smithers
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
63 hours remain in Day 1.
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Aha!
##Vote: Smithers
*devilish grin*
*rubs hands together*
*straightens his back and smiles!*
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Gah, I'm all thumbs today.
##Unvote: Weasel Squad
##Vote: Ard
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Axem Green
No I didn't. Whim voted for the Weasels for repeating a joke vote, not for being quick to jump on us for no reason. Ars and Smithers did the latter and didn't talk about Gilgamesh like they should have.
Guildenstern
A rather slim distinction, Sir Green. Whim's vote was "The Weasels are asking for serious business but are making a joke vote!" The later votes - or, at least, mine once I changed my suspicion of the Weasels from die-based to something more concrete - were ultimately the same, but oriented toward "if we were to take the Weasels at their word that this is a serious vote, this is an *awful* justification even for early Day 1 standards." Two sides of the same coin.
Rosencrantz
Though our lizard isn't doing his best at defending himself, even if I agree with his general thrust. Perhaps there are problems originating from poor translation?
---
Guildenstern
What's this? "3 new replies?"
Rosencrantz
They could be said to be "ninjas." Whatever those are.
Guildenstern
Mr. Weasels, the justification was abundantly laid out beforehand. While I shall speak all pretty and fancy like for topics such as "Day 1 flavor," I shall endevaor to be abundantly clear on matters of voting.
Rosencrantz
Now, Mr. Oddjob. I asked this of our Detective as well, but having attended our fine detectivey gathering, any.... further thoughts? I personally am not seeing the argument supporting the Smithers distrust from some quarters. And you two have not contributed beyond the "Saying hello" phase, despite clearly being here for it.
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Small details are the way of life 'round these parts Prinnies. Dwelling on the minute is a way of life here at the henchman convention -- UGH! I HATE IT!
I think Smithers is pussyfooted and non-committal and likes to fling the old suspicion-meter around wildly. Flinging everywhere is useless for us! I say that Smithers is going after Weasels and then going after the anti-Weasels. Make up your mind or I'll have to make it for you. *cracks knuckles*
Oddjob, say something useful. Whim, is it really necessary to talk like a Weeaboo? I am annoyed with all of you!
But especially Smithers.
##Unvote: Dick Gumshoe
##Vote: Smithers
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Smithers, you fool! Look around you, and you see nothing but the heartfelt speeches of those larger-than-life individuals who make up this convention! To complain about 'fluff' in a game that is all but made of the stuff is madness, I say! Just as likely it's anyone else if you want to play it that way! And hey, he thinks the Prinny's look wrong, too, I just can't tell if his vote's where he really thinks it should be!
Still, gotta wonder why Tony ignores the Axem crew when he talks about the suspicion-o-meter getting tossed around, too! 'specially with 'Ard talking about it right there, on that charge they're a heck of a lot weirder than the old secretary-man-thing. Man, when you've got two enemies and they're each others enemies, does that make them both your friends?
##Vote: Tony Naaaaaaaaah, I'm gonna peg this on willful ignorance.
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Ano... Prinny Buntai, the Weasel Buntai said we should move into serious discussion. Then they voted the Axem Rangers because there was five of them. That was their jokevote, too. Eto... I think they were saying we should stop joking around and then went on joking around themselves.
I don't like it when people call for action and then sit back.
Why are the Axem Rangers attacking Gilgamesh-san? He made a jokevote! It's not the same as calling for serious discussion and then jokevoting! Attacking people because they didn't attack Gilgamesh-san for jokevoting isn't conductive to our investigation.
What is Oddjob-san doing?
Now see here, goily, whats wrong with askin a little question? Putting a little pressure on and whatnot? Where do you be layin' down the line between whats a joke vote and attempts at starting discussion? That be arbitrarylike.
Ano... you wanted to 'pressure' the Axem Rangers by camouflaging your vote as a jokevote? You wanted to pressure them by highlighting how there are five of them and they each talk seperately? Eto... I haven't done this a lot before, Lily-sama never wanted me to... demo... that's a terrible justification, like Guildenstern-san said.
Toriaizu, the Weasel Buntai's attack against Guildenstern is incredibly weak. OMGUS? My vote's staying where it is.
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With so few clues, we need a detective to shine light. While we all hope Mr. Job shows his face soon, do you have any other thoughts, Sir Gumshoe? Perhaps your investigation has turned something up.
(http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy156/Detekative/gumshoe-thinkingb.gif)
Y-you want my help, pal? *sniff* Alright! I'm all fired up now! Let's see what I can do!
No I didn't. Whim voted for the Weasels for repeating a joke vote, not for being quick to jump on us for no reason. Ars and Smithers did the latter and didn't talk about Gilgamesh like they should have.
You're using some pretty shaky logic there, pal, and I'm not liking the look of it at all. You think someone's suspicious for not suspecting the suspicious suspect? In which case, why not go for Gilmagesh yourself? It's like the lizard said - you can't just throw around suspicion aimlessly.
W-wait a sec.
Small details are the way of life 'round these parts
[...]
I think Smithers is pussyfooted and non-committal and likes to fling the old suspicion-meter around wildly. Flinging everywhere is useless for us! I say that Smithers is going after Weasels and then going after the anti-Weasels.
You don't like looking at small details, then ignore the big picture to focus on one of several who's been doin' what you're saying? Look, pal. Either you follow your own advice and make up your mind or you'll be perverting the course of justice at the very least, and that's a serious offence, pal.
I'm not liking them who keep yammerin' on way too much - looking mostly at Whim, Ard and Guilstendern here, although it just seems like the usual sort of stuff for Day One of the trial. As long as it doesn't last, it won't be a problem, and it's not reason enough to lock 'em up anyway.
##Vote: Axem Rangers
You can't go suspectin' everyone. What's making you accuse Ard over Gilmagesh and Smithers, since you mentioned them all?
...W-wow. I don't think I've spoken this much in a long time. I think I need to grab some noodles before I pass out.
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(http://birme.se/newyearroyale/img/jb_inspiration/oddjob.jpg)
*Oddjob delivers a large and confusing bag full of nothing - symbolizing Smithers' posts. His face is grave and disturbed by the behavior he has seen.*
*Oddjob adjusts his hat whilst glaring at Smithers.*
*Oddjob also eyes Weasel suspiciously, raising the bag of metaphor aloft.*
*Oddjob is inherently suspicious of people that speak lots without saying anything - his exact opposite.*
//It's hard to roleplay a character that never speaks!
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Small details are the way of life 'round these parts
[...]
I think Smithers is pussyfooted and non-committal and likes to fling the old suspicion-meter around wildly. Flinging everywhere is useless for us! I say that Smithers is going after Weasels and then going after the anti-Weasels.
You don't like looking at small details, then ignore the big picture to focus on one of several who's been doin' what you're saying? Look, pal. Either you follow your own advice and make up your mind or you'll be perverting the course of justice at the very least, and that's a serious offence, pal.
My point is that dwelling on stupid stuff is stupid. That's not a votable offense, it's just being an unproductive scmuck. Smithers in his UNVOTE pussyfoots into not voting for anyone, and then figures he should anyway, so he does. And you know what? I think that's more than being a wimp. I have no idea what you are talking about otherwise.
Still, gotta wonder why Tony ignores the Axem crew when he talks about the suspicion-o-meter getting tossed around, too! 'specially with 'Ard talking about it right there, on that charge they're a heck of a lot weirder than the old secretary-man-thing. Man, when you've got two enemies and they're each others enemies, does that make them both your friends?
##Vote: Tony Naaaaaaaaah, I'm gonna peg this on willful ignorance.
Ohohoho, Day 1 conspiracy theorists. Comedy gold.
Axem Rangers:
-There are five of them
-They are suspicious of everyone, just like everyone else
-They are annoyed because no one talks about you.
Neither of the first two of these things is especially notable. Bo-ring. The third thing is stupid (and kinda like what you accused me of) but you know what? I talk about what I want and so should Whim and Ard. It's not brilliant justification but it's pretty minor.
You basically said yourself why I am voting for Smithers. (Which I stupidly erased from the post, but whatever. Directly above what I quoted.)
Whim blathers a lot --- I'm not sure if it's all the incomprehensible Japanese-speak that makes me glazes over her posts or that she isn't saying a damn thing. My verdict is that's she just talks a lot which is alright, although her dwelling on the Weasels is just sort of weird -- completely brushing off the fact that Guildenstern has said basically nothing with OMGUS!!!!!!!
The Weasels are a hard crew to predict. I agree with their assessment of Guildenstern completely; they have said nothing. I have basically been ignoring him because his posts are AWESOME, but it's true. Their next post is at least actually full of content but the Weasels cannot be responsible for time-travel. I think a rather bad Day 1 vote has blown up in the face of Mr. Weasel. And while making bad votes might be bad to the health, I am here to find REAL heroes, and maybe I believe the matter of a stupid vote is elementary.
Vote stays where it is. Nothing has remotely convinced me otherwise.
-
Ard ard ard. Ard ard. ARD. Ard ard.
Liz: Ard finds Oddjob's explanation of his Smithers vote succinct and to the point. We approve but wish this explanation had been presented at the same time as the vote itself. It does little good if someone has to be pressured for an explanation every time they vote.
(ArdLiz Research Enterprises also heartily approves of Oddjob's novel use of headgear for combat purposes and may pursue development along these lines in the event that ArdLiz Research Enterprises are not liquidated during the course of these proceedings.)
ARD. Ard ard. ARD ard ard. Aaaard. Ard ard.
Liz: Moving on, Ard would like me to do this:
##Unvote: Weasels
Liz: Although the Weasels' initial attack against the Axem squad was not based on firm ground, research conducted by ArdLiz Research Enterprises into situations similar to that in which we now find ourselves indicates that the first individual to call for "Serious Action" usually garners suspicion and attention in a manner similar to that which we have witnessed here today. Although the justification for the vote the Weasels placed on the Axems was rather specious, when one seeks to create something from nothing it is perhaps understandable that they start small. They have not behaved in an especially suspicious manner since then and we believe that there are currently more fruitful avenues of research.
Ardardard. ARD. Ard ard. Ard ard ard ard.
Liz: Ard now wishes to move on to another suspect, and that suspect happens to be someone voting for us! The Axems continue to be very uncoordinated in their behavior and we're a little puzzled as to why they suspect us. A thorough examination of their statements provided us with only the vague notion that the Axems suspected us for not voting on Gilgamesh--a suspect that the Axems themselves apparently did not find suspicious enough to vote for! Perplexing behavior indeed. Until they can provide a better rationale to explain themselves, our vote rests with them.
##Vote: Axem Rangers
ARD.
Liz: Oh yes, Ard has one final note for Dick Gumshoe. You complain of several participants in this forum "talking too much," but how else is the truth to be uncovered but with steady dialogue and interchange? Is it the amount of speaking that bothers you, or that which is spoken? We at ArdLiz Research Enterprises stand by our public statements; Ard speaks only when he sees something worth commenting on. If there are translation difficulties, I again humbly request that the confused parties request a clarification of the relevant confusing statement.
(And our users' manuals are always to-the-point and easy to understand, despite what certain consumers' rights groups might claim!)
~
ARD.
Liz: Oh, and a recent response from Mr. Tony. We find most of his theories sound and thus leave without further comment (accept to agree that a response from Mr. Smithers would be most welcome, as we have not heard from him since he voted for us).
A delicate experiment now demands our attention; Ard should return in no more than ten standard hours, assuming the time dilation device is functioning properly (there WAS an unfortunate accident where the Scientific Test Goat was prematurely aged two hundred years in the space of thirty seconds, but we are confident that we have corrected this error).
-
Dear Gilgamesh/Gumshoe. Please be remembering to unvote before you vote. I will not require specifics, just an unvote command. But votes without the unvote do not get processed.
Day 1
Gumshoe (0): Tony, Smithers
Tony (0): Whim
Guildenstern (1): Ard, Weasels
Oddjob (1): Weasels, Gumshoe
Whim (1): Prinnies
Weasels (2): Axem Rangers, Guildenstern, Whim, Ard
Axem Rangers (2): Weasels, Gilgamesh, Ard
Ard (2): Smithers, Axem Rangers
Smithers (1): Tony
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. 50 hours remain in Day 1.
-
The Weasels are a hard crew to predict. I agree with their assessment of Guildenstern completely; they have said nothing. I have basically been ignoring him because his posts are AWESOME, but it's true. Their next post is at least actually full of content but the Weasels cannot be responsible for time-travel.
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2853/weasel1.png) Heeey. Glad to see someone has got a lick of brains in their heads. But help me out here. Is it our or Guildenstoin's post you be tawkin' about? Cause if you'se tawkin' 'bout Guildenstoin, I still don't see much in his post after our vote for him. Just more chatter justfyin' his vote like while saying nothin' and cawlin' for more people to tawk. This is classic scum behavior here, we think.
(http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/7799/weasel2.jpg) I smell a rat. Can I cut heem boss?
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2853/weasel1.png) Don't be jumpin' out doin' somethin' crazy. This be a democracy, see?
(http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/7799/weasel2.jpg) What about thees guy in the fuunny hat? Heez eyeballing us.
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2853/weasel1.png) Hey, yeah. So Oddjob... what makes you single us out when there's also Guildenstoin and the Axems, eh? To to that goily Whim I's was tawkin' to before. What makes you write off a reasonable argument as OMGUS? It's weak, eh? Why? Cause you don't like us? Willfully desegregatin' arguments without explainin' like that is suspicious.
-
Green, you sure you don't have a headache or something? You really messed that one up! Who gave you permission to speak, anyway? Now you got us all in trouble!
Seems you lot were right for once. Green stupidly lumped Gilgamesh in with those Weasels when it was obvious they were using two different attack formations. I bet he just flipped a coin when he decided which one of Ard and Smithers to recommend voting for.
That's enough of that! Time to take control of this operation like I should have from the start.
##Unvote: Ard
tl;dr: My bad. Won't happen again. Moving on.
What I REALLY don't like from all that is people getting all riled up over multiple suspicions. War isn't about subtleties! It's about finding enemies and breaking them!
Tony! You're attacking Smithers for being suspicious of several people! He attacked what, two people? Three if you count the Prinnies, though I wouldn't. I'd say he wasn't attacking them, just yelling at them for being stupid. No more than I do to Yellow on a daily basis! You also say he's being non-commital when he has a pretty clear attack in action by voting for Ard! Then, as if that weren't bad enough, you go around trying to paint Whim and Guildenstern as bad! If there's anything worse than someone opposed to multiple suspicions, it's someone that's subtly hypocritical about it!
Smithers in his UNVOTE pussyfoots into not voting for anyone, and then figures he should anyway, so he does. And you know what? I think that's more than being a wimp.
And what's this about? Smithers unvotes and says he'll vote again in the same post. The guy only took 20 minutes to actually attack again. 20 minutes! What's the big deal? Maybe he needed a new paint job, or possibly a tune-up since his circuits were on the fritz! He even mentions "connection problems" in that post! Better to say something than nothing! There are plenty of good reasons to attack someone, but this sure ain't one of 'em!
##Vote: Tony
-
Dear Gilgamesh/Gumshoe. Please be remembering to unvote before you vote. I will not require specifics, just an unvote command. But votes without the unvote do not get processed.
(http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy156/Detekative/gumshoe-dishearteneda.gif)
S-sorry, sir! (That won't affect my next paycheck, will it?)
Oh yes, Ard has one final note for Dick Gumshoe. You complain of several participants in this forum "talking too much," but how else is the truth to be uncovered but with steady dialogue and interchange? Is it the amount of speaking that bothers you, or that which is spoken?
Oh, sorry, pal! Let me clear that one up: I'm not happy with people yammerin' on and saying a lot while not revealing anything. If you're gonna be talking, you need to make sure what you're presenting is worthwhile!
Oddjob's helpin' our investigation come along now, but still no vote? Surprising, considering Smithers had only one vote at the time. Still, better than the nothing before it, as long as it picks up soon.
To the Axems, you seem to contradict yourself... I mean, war is about finding enemies, yet pointing fingers at everyone is fine? Can't help thinkin' we need to focus eventually to find our culprit, pal.
Puttin' my vote where it was meant to be again. Sorry again, sir! Won't happen again, I promise!
##Unvote, ##Vote: Axem Rangers
Can't help noticing a few people slacking off from the investigation. Whim/Guilsterndern? You guys have said little in what you have put forward, so you should probably present some evidence soon! I learnt that trick from Mr. Edgeworth, pal!
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Wow, you need some shades or something, if action is that blinding to you. Pointing fingers at everyone? Since when is three people everyone? Red's dead on with what he says. We see enemies, we take 'em out! Ain't Red's fault Green's an idiot, but the idea is still solid.
You do bring up something int'resting, though. I had to check my own shades to make sure I wasn't just seeing things. Looks like that Oddjob guy voted for Smithers in Post 36 but it ain't in the vote count! What gives?
-
Have my glasses fogged up? I ask, because I seem to be seeing a completely different scene to others. In order since I left to reassemble my portable shrine to Mr. Burns:
#27 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89297#msg89297) Ard: at what, six hours into the game? If not cage-rattling then it's (more) completely meaningless verbal diarrhoea. Take your pick, I don't like it either way.
#39 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89333#msg89333) and then #44 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89412#msg89412) Tony: lies and slander. Completely off the mark. Would defend myself if not for the Axem leader already catching it pretty fully at #48 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89443#msg89443).
#40 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89375#msg89375) Gilgamesh: if stupidity was a sign of guilt, then the prisons would be overflowing. The Prinnies were showing signs of stupidity ("They made a much-needed call to Gumshoe and Oddjob (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89288#msg89288)" is the top example), not culpability, so your inconsistency is perceived only.
#43 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89393#msg89393) Oddjob: registered dumb in both respects, it seems, given again I see far worse offenders for your claimed criterion. Again, just plain wrong.
For the record, I'm already actively having trouble with the writing styles of Ard (tl;dr setting in already) and Oddjob (practically non-existent - needing to be prodded to justify a vote at all is a sure sign of doing it wrong). Guildenstern I'm actually managing to parse well enough so far.
Tony reminds me of an angry puppy. The aggression is cute and all, but cleaning up the froth is less fun. The fallacious case on my good self aside, I'm reading an aggressive variant of the non-committal reporter style, which sets off major warning bells in so many ways - more so than the bad case, even - and has rocketed him up to the number one spot in my absence. No doubt I'm walking into an OMGUS trap here, but:
##UNVOTE: Ard
##VOTE: Tony
Ard still rubs me the wrong way for the sheer weight of fluff beyond the call of duty, particularly early on, but I must concede that the content's improved notably in the last few posts, even if I find myself disagreeing with much of it. The words:content ratio is at this point more skewed by Guilenstern and the weasels at the very least, and I'd like them to interact with other people.
Not sure I get the cases on the Axem collective, as my first accusation of them would instead be moving from one tunnel to another (albeit Ard's vote for them came before the relevant jump).
In any case, Tony's the big front-runner for me as things stand. Early active lurking from others is next worst but currently of secondary concern.
-
Unless Odd Job has something to say (or menacingly gesture) about it, his missed vote looks to me like it has to be a simple blip in the heavens.
-
Missed vote? There was no missed vote. Nothing to see here folks, nothing but a vote count.
Day 1
Gumshoe (0): Tony, Smithers
Tony (2): Whim, Axem Rangers, Smithers
Guildenstern (1): Ard, Weasels
Oddjob (0): Weasels, Gumshoe
Whim (1): Prinnies
Weasels (2): Axem Rangers, Guildenstern, Whim, Ard
Axem Rangers (3): Weasels, Gilgamesh, Ard, Gumshoe
Ard (0): Smithers, Axem Rangers
Smithers (2): Tony, Oddjob,
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. There are 43 hours left in Day 1.
-
(http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy156/Detekative/gumshoe-laughinga.gif)
Axem, pal, I was just commentin' on your little self-contradiction, not your voting on the whole there. Sorry, I guess my testimony should've been a bit clearer... The voting was mentioned earlier on, but that suspicion doesn't seem as solid now.
Do we even have a clear suspect? I'm not liking Tony either, but it's solely based on his objectionable way of talking - his actual post content seems justified, even if it is somewhat too narrow-minded at this stage.
Guilstendern, on the other hand... What little he has said seems to be leading nowhere, and the pressure seems to have just fallen away. On that note, still looking towards others who've not said much of anything - Whim stands out, with Oddjob and Gilmagesh close behind.
Ard and Liz... as Smithers mentioned, a lot of useless information in their testimonies, but they're contributin' a decent amount as well.
With all that said, I think it's fairly obvious who the most suspicious is here, pal.
##Unvote: Axem Rangers
##Vote: Guildenstern
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Act I. Scene III.
Rosencrantz
We've been summoned.
Guildenstern
By the king?
Rosencrantz
Aye, by good King Claudius, who certainly didn't recently murder his brother. He wants us to spy for him. Make sure that nobody is here trying to usurp his throne or pin any ridiculous murder charges on him due to henching for his nephew.
Guildenstern
Intelligence reports? But there isn't any here.
Rosencrantz
....hey, wait a second!
Also for Smithers / others worried about fluff ratio: I'll try and keep the flavor confined to the top of my posts, the serious stuff afterward. Fluff circular arguments are bad, yes, but flavor should be harmless - just pretend I'm not posting the flavor at all if you're concerned.
Guildenstern
No, seriously, none of this makes any sense. I share Smithers' concern that his senses are failing him. Smithers and Whim have made decent points, and been attacked for it. The Prinnies.... are not really around much, but seemed a bit overexcited when they were. Gilgamesh and Oddjob are barely here. Ard can be a bit hard to follow but he hasn't said anything completely silly yet, which puts him above a lot. The Axem Rangers apparently misposted slightly, and further seem to agree with the point that the anti-Smithers case is weak.
Despite Gumshoe's recent vote against me, the detective's comments seem reasonable enough. And he's showed up to the investigation now, leaving the lurking crown to Gilgamesh & the Prinnies. That leaves as notable targets of suspicion...
*Weasel Squad - Smithers point about our interactions being largely with each other is well-taken, and applies to him just as much. I don't know what to make of the Weasels' incoherent babble but it's not doing them any favors, and I'd be plenty happy to keep my vote where it is.
*Tony - Tony's case on Smithers is also completely baffling to me. I must be slow today but can you go over it again? Just a general gut feeling about too many accusations? Fingers need to be pointed, as I'm seeing plenty of lynchable targets right now. Obviously Mr. Oddjob and some others agree with you, though, so maybe I'm the one missing something.
Rosencrantz
Yeah, keeping the vote on the Weasels for now. We're as constant as the northern star, etc. Hope that Tony can back his case up, though.
-
Hrmm. Can't say I agree too much with smithers on Tony being all reporter-like; that award totally goes to Guildenstern for his last post, not to mention his clutching onto Weasels for reasons I cannot rightly discern. Coming to agree with this-
At least Ard be talkin about other people. Guildenstoin just be name dropping people without really saying anything so far. He's trying to lay all low like while hidin' behind his fancy talk. Dats where I be corrugatin' my vote.
To Tony himself: Pretty sure why you voted for Smithers has nothing to do with why I was suspicious of him, too! Was annoyed at him ranting about fluff, not wild suspicions of everyone or the like. Gonna leave my vote here, that's not a satisfactory reply.
The Axems, well- first, my vote ain't supposed to be there! ##Unvote Secondly, I ain't worried about their so-called fingering of me, might be off the mark but his logic's no better, no worse than any typical dayonestuffs. Think Ard's off the mark there- can easily see why he'd look at him and smithers over me there (since it's those two that could be perceived to be in error, not I!)
-
ARD. ARD. ARDARD.
Liz: Oh my! We are having significant difficulties communicating, aren't we Mr. Smithers? Ard will try to keep his input as brief as possible just for you, our cleanly cleaning friend! I'll address two of your recent statements. First:
#27 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89297#msg89297) Ard: at what, six hours into the game? If not cage-rattling then it's (more) completely meaningless verbal diarrhoea. Take your pick, I don't like it either way.
ARD. Ard ard ard ard ard.
Liz: "Cage-rattling?" In a clear sign that this failure to communicate goes both ways, Ard is really very unsure what you mean by this. Is "cage-rattling" behavior which is too aggressive, or merely frantic and unfocused? We request a clarification. Our intent was certainly not the former--the post merely pointed out, in response to the Axems' post, that we had not noticed how close the Weasels were to lynching when we cast our vote for them but were nonetheless satisfied to leave our vote there to observe the effect. In any event, we consider six hours not a significant amount of time into the game, and suggest that perhaps your standards for how people should act at what time are a little too strict, Mr. Smithers.
Ard still rubs me the wrong way for the sheer weight of fluff beyond the call of duty, particularly early on, but I must concede that the content's improved notably in the last few posts, even if I find myself disagreeing with much of it.
"Ard?" Arrrrrd. Ard ard ard.
Liz: "Particularly early on?" Isn't that the most appropriate time for this "fluff" of which you speak? It's in the nature of participants in situations such as ours to prance and gambol and frolic in the naivete of the early hours, before they have realized the seriousness of their situation. We feel you take issue with this behavior more than is warranted given that it characterizes everyone's early posts. If you yourself acknowledge that such behavior has now abated, why don't we just drop the whole issue? Ard and I consider it a moot point and hope that, if you continue to disagree with what we say, you find fault with those arguments rather than the manner of their presentation.
Ard is still parsing through the recent responses and will address others in turn.
-
Ard ard ard ard. ARDard. Arrrrrd ard.
Liz: Ard wishes to address the Axems now. Axems, aspects of your behavior are still not easily analyzed by our truth-detecting equipment. You abandon your vote for Ard as quickly as it is challenged. While we can hardly complain about this outcome, the reasons behind it are still not clear to us. Was it...an accident? How is this possible? The fact that you castigate one of your own number for making this vote suggests so, but it's disturbing to see someone among us behaving in such an erratic and poorly coordinated manner.
Ard. Ardardard. Ard ard.
Liz: Ard also wishes to present a clarification for you, since you claim confusion as to why others were "getting all riled up over multiple suspicions." It's acceptable for a person to pursue multiple avenues of research, yes, but only within reason--the incident which provoked Ard's suspicion was when you called out several names within the space of one short paragraph. This is not a sound approach; it was as though you were throwing darts at a board in hopes of achieving success by luck (which is not a fruitful means of developing lines of research--Ard and I know this for sure because it was the basis of experiment #482).
~
ARD.
Ard is examining the other participants right now and wishes to express his alarm at how easily the prinnies have gone silent and escaped everyone's collective notice. This is suspicious behavior and would warrant a vote if Ard had another to spare.
-
Oh man, that buffet is good stuff.
Oh yeah, we were doing something here! Right! Haven't left formation yet, Red! Don't worry about me!
You abandon your vote for Ard as quickly as it is challenged. While we can hardly complain about this outcome, the reasons behind it are still not clear to us. Was it...an accident? How is this possible? The fact that you castigate one of your own number for making this vote suggests so, but it's disturbing to see someone among us behaving in such an erratic and poorly coordinated manner.
Well, Red said Green was being an idiot, so Green must have been being an idiot. My job isn't to think, since it hurts a lot and Red yells at me when I do it, but I think Green thought that Gilgamesh guy was attacking us for the same reasons the Weasels were. Probably because he came in so late. Serves him right! Slowpoke missed all the good food!
I agree with Red on this one. If an attack doesn't work, you should stop using it! I remember this one time I attacked a rock that was between me and the mess hall on the Blade, and my axe broke! I kept hitting the rock but it didn't do anything! Then Red hit me and told me to walk around it. Red's a pretty smart guy. That's why he's our leader!
Oh yeah. Basically, I think Red saw an attack that didn't work, so he stopped using it because it would be stupid to keep going.
tl;dr: I made a interpretation mistake, people were right to call me on it, I withdrew my vote since it was for faulty reasons.
Liz: Ard also wishes to present a clarification for you, since you claim confusion as to why others were "getting all riled up over multiple suspicions." It's acceptable for a person to pursue multiple avenues of research, yes, but only within reason--the incident which provoked Ard's suspicion was when you called out several names within the space of one short paragraph. This is not a sound approach; it was as though you were throwing darts at a board in hopes of achieving success by luck (which is not a fruitful means of developing lines of research--Ard and I know this for sure because it was the basis of experiment #482).
Wow, this one's easy! I got this one!
See, two things were wrong with your attack formation. One, you thought we were actually attacking the Weasels. Even though they attacked us and were trying to imitate us, they didn't do anything else wrong. Two, those other three guys Green was attacking for the same reason. I don't know what's wrong with that. Maybe Red knows! I'll go ask him!
-
Right! What lughead here is sayin' is pretty accurate. Green's attack on those other guys, while stupid, was for the same general reason. I agree that spreading your forces thin and trying to take on too many enemies at once with different strategies is a bad move, but if I can Vigor Up and hit a whole bunch of enemies all at once with the same move, you bet I'm gonna do it! Under Green's dumb reasoning, you and Smithers were guilty of the same thing, so it was the right thing to do to get you both at once!
As for Gilgamesh, Green probably thought he was getting ignored by a scum buddy or something. A bit jumpy, maybe, but like I said, we're not here to fool around!
-
Oddjob: registered dumb in both respects, it seems, given again I see far worse offenders for your claimed criterion. Again, just plain wrong.
*Oddjob cocks his head to the side, in part agreement, but also wondering who Smithers sees as 'far worse'. For Oddjob, there is quite a number of 'offenders' which makes it hard to pick any one, but is interested in finding out Smithers' order in that respect. That said, Smithers has been hunting around and stopped doing his original weak flip-flopping, so ##Unvote: Smithers (Oddjob would still like an answer though).*
*Oddjob holds up a piece of paper with the following discussion upon it: http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89412#msg89412 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89412#msg89412)*
*Oddjob wonders why Tony sticks to a weak case on Smithers which has since shown itself to be otherwise, when he also presents cases on others. As Oddjob thinks Smithers has picked up his game, he disagrees with Tony; "vote stays where it is. Nothing has remotely convinced me otherwise" sounds like obstinant, malreasoned scummy attitude, despite Smithers' scumhunting.*
*Oddjob cracks his fingers, and gets back to working for Mr. Goldfinger.*
-
*Oddjob, the forgetful fellow he is (too many punches to the head? Maybe the side-effects of wearing a lethal weapon all day long on your head.. maybe the hat is made of lead? Can't be good for the brain) forgot to leave behind a small card, upon it the writing: ##Vote: Tony*
-
Votecounts as it stands:
Day 1
Gumshoe (0): Tony, Smithers
Tony (3): Whim, Axem Rangers, Smithers, Oddjob
Guildenstern (2): Ard, Weasels, Gumshoe
Oddjob (0): Weasels, Gumshoe
Whim (1): Prinnies
Weasels (2): Axem Rangers, Guildenstern, Whim, Ard
Axem Rangers (1): Weasels, Gilgamesh, Ard, Gumshoe
Ard (0): Smithers, Axem Rangers
Smithers (1): Tony, Oddjob,
Not Voting: Gilgamesh
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. 33 Hours left in Day 1.
-
...man, I fail at voting.
##Vote: Tony as previously discussed. Not seeing anything worth commenting on or outside expectations since last correspondence.
-
As for Gilgamesh, Green probably thought he was getting ignored by a scum buddy or something. A bit jumpy, maybe, but like I said, we're not here to fool around!
Ard. Ard ard ard ard. ARD. Ard ard ard ard ard.
Liz: Ard had speculated privately that this might have been your motivation, but did not wish to say anything and risk putting words in your mouth. This is the most understandable explanation, if one beset by faulty reasoning (our research has shown that dwelling on conspiracy theories day one is unproductive 96.3924% of the time; when one knows the alignment of no one but one's self, it's simply not viable to speculate on possible connections between others). Though Ard disapproves of the logic used, we are willing to conclude that this was an honest mistake made by a novice henchperson in a stressful situation. The vote shall be revoked until such a time as more suspicious behavior is observed.
##Unvote: Axem Rangers
~
Ard ard ard ardardard. ARD ard. Ard ard ard.
Liz: Now it's time to move on to another suspect. While Tony has garnered a lot of attention, Ard is more suspicious of those who have not. Tony's adherence to the tenets of the sceintific method have been satisfactory given the paucity of information available to us and we wonder if perhaps it's only his brusque manner that alarms people. Several other henchpeople present have done much less to provoke discussion than has Mr. Tony; they lurk on the edges of discussion and poke at others only when it becomes convenient before disappearing again, like some variety of pesky, interdimensional mosquito. We will now outline our suspicions in this regard via a convenient bullet-list:
-Prinny Squad. These wingless avians have said little of note (indeed, they've spoken so rarely that I myself forgot they were here and recently attributed one of their comments to the Axems by mistake!) Why, their last public statement criticized people for voting for the weasels while providing no other suggestions for suspects. Hardly a productive attitude. The only detail that stays Ard's hand is the sheer duration of their quiescence--are they even still here and paying attention to our situation? It would be useless to vote for them if they were not.
-Gilgamesh. Something about this multiarmed madman just doesn't fit (not that we at ArdLiz Research enterprises have anything against madmen, mind you; indeed, it's our official position that insanity is quite liberating!) He's very much a fringe presence who blusters a little without saying anything of consequence and mostly keeps a low profile. This behavior is not comforting.
-Dick Gumshoe. Ard and I have taken a close look at this detective's reports and found that most of his data is actually derived from material originated by others, as though Mr. Gumshoe were watching for safe cases while avoiding making one of his own. His suspicions of the Axems, Tony, and Guildenstern echo those of others alarmingly closely. Where Ard and I come from, there is a word for people like this. We call them...Edisons. In order to shake up a discussion that increasingly centers around one person, Ard will cast a vote for this detective and make a call for others to weigh in on the matter.
##Vote: Dick Gumshoe
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Dood. We get called off to deal with some weird angel girl, and we come back to all this? That's a lot to reply to, dood. Hope you don't mind if we break this whole day down into quick notes, dood.
Ard, dood: - Has a problem with their weird gadgets, and votes, then unvotes, for Guildenstern. Then they begin talking about those coin-flips, dood, and give out a call to Oddjob and Gumshoe, which we still say was important, dood. Like they said: How can you have a proper investigation without an investigator? Or everyone being around, dood?
- Then they press the weasels, dood.
- In their next post, all they really say is that they didn't notice how close they had the weasels to the fire, dood, and that they're not gonna change their vote.
- Then they respond to the Axem Rangers being all weird, dood, but we'll get into that later.
- Their next post is a lot to read, dood, but the basics are that they're cool with Oddjob's accusation of Smithers, they unvote the weasels and back up their original vote and their now unvoting by saying it's common, saying the weasels aren't actually being suspicious, they vote the Axem Rangers for being all weird, telling Gumshoe that lots of talking is good, and then leaving by saying that Tony seems to be alright and that Smithers should speak up, dood.
- Then, they come back to have a quick conversation with Smithers, dood, and begins addressing the Axem Rangers, finishing that second post with a poke at Prinny inactivity. (It's not our fault the Prince wanted to explore Item World, dood!)
- Their last post has them dismissing the Axem Rangers, and then poking around at us, Gilgamesh, and a fatal poke at Gumshoe, dood.
Axem Rangers: - These guys are hard to follow, dood. They don't actually say much of anything, and when they do, it's spread out among the five of them.
- First, it takes them four posts just to make a jokevote, dood! Then, when that Green Axem comes in, he starts some weird OMGUS thing going, and begins getting on the case of Ard and Smithers because they didn't mention both people gunning for the Axems? Dood, that's weak. Even for you. Also, dood, why did you vote Ard over Smithers? You never explained that, dood!
- Then, when they unvote Ard, that Red Axem Ranger says it was obvious they were using different attack formations. If it was so obvious, why'd you go with it, dood? And green never mentioned which one to vote for. At least, not openly, dood.
- Then that Red Axem got upset at Tony for being suspicious of multiple people and for accusing Smithers of being suspicious of several people (which, if Tony thought Smithers was suspicious of us, then Tony wouldn't be wrong in saying 'several,' dood). Red Ranger then goes on to berate Tony some more for his attacks on Smithers, dood.
- Black then comes in, supporting this "Hunt and kill!" mentality the Rangers seem to be talking about, and then needlessly repeats that Oddjob's vote is missing, dood. Personally, we don't see the point in having that said more than once, unless you think the guy who locked us up in here is the one killing us, dood.
- Then Yellow comes back from the buffet and says that they were pointing lots of fingers because they suspected everyone of the same thing. But that still doesn't answer our question, dood!
Gumshoe. A dood among doods: - Comes in late with a jokevote on Oddjob.
- Berates Tony and tells him to straighten up, and then goes off on the Axem Rangers for being weird, dood!
- Comes back in for a final dismissal of the Axem Rangers and then points fingers at Tony, Whim, Gilgamesh, Oddjob, Ard and Guildenstern before putting a vote down on Guildenstern for not applying keeping up the pressure, dood.
Gilgamesh: - Joke vote, and then briefly mentions some stuff about Tony and Smithers before voting for Tony. (Though it doesn't actually count, since he didn't unvote the Axem Rangers, dood)
- Unvotes Axem Rangers then votes for Tony, giving a brief outlook from his perspective, dood. Dismisses the Axem Ranger blunder, and points a quick finger at Guildenstern before bringing his sword out and pointing it at Tony, dood.
- If you're so sure it's Tony, why not come in and talk more, dood? You have three (technically four) posts! And if you agree with what the weasels said, then why aren't you voting for Guildenstern too, dood? Seems kinda fishy to us-- and not the tasty kind, either, dood!
More to follow, dood! (Didn't want to make the latest contribution a tl;dr)
-
Breaking character for a moment because hahahahahaha holy Toledo that Prinny post is baaaaaaad. I'm not taking my vote off Tony because he hasn't said anything since I cast it but they seriously need an axe to the face for that.
LizArd: I can see where you're coming from on Gumshoe, but he was the first to make a case against me (Whim was the only one to express suspicion of me before him and it was for a different reason), so I can't really agree with your case that's he done nothing but ride the coattails of others.
Prinnies!
- They show up after a whole bunch of lurking and pressure to...play the journalist and say nothing actually useful!
- They appear to be going alphabetically down the list of players in their reporting, implying that they intend to cover everyone, which is a scummy endeavour on Day 1 because there's not enough information to make it worth commenting on everyone and thus it just becomes a bunch of useless filler trying to look helpful. Not that the reporter style needs help in that regard, but!
- They miss my saying that the choice of Ard over Smithers was a coin flip in Post 48. There was ostensibly no difference between the two at the time under the (now shown to be bad) reason for the vote.
- They accuse me of "needlessly repeating" that Oddjob's vote was missing, despite no one pointing it out prior. Gumshoe actually though Oddjob had not voted, which is why I pointed out that he had and it hadn't been counted.
- They pick at me for flavor reasons. Most notable are "If it was so obvious, why'd you go with it, dood?" (flavor of Red berating Green) and "And green never mentioned which one to vote for. At least, not openly, dood." (flavor where the Axems talk privately amongst themselves).
So basically it's a bunch of reporting and trying to paint me as bad (Smithy does that for me already kthx) without any actual reasons why I'm scum.
I really hope you bring something substantial to the table in your next post, whenever that comes.
-
Ano, Gumshoe-san... first you say Whim talks too much, now I say too little?
I'm not sure where I stand on the Weasel Buntai anymore. They... initially raised my hackles and now they haven't done much to lower my suspicion, but not raise it either. Ano, I think I'm comfortable enough with them in the face of others that...
##UNVOTE: Weasel Buntai
Eto... right now, the Prinnies are posting a large article about the day's proceedings... ano, that feels a little useless. They also called me out on voting the Weasels earlier and... aren't doing much of anything yet.
##VOTE: Prinny Buntai
Your last post looks like it's just throwing suspicion on everyone listed, with the promise of 'more to come'. That more had best be rather good, because it's throwing you up a lot right now.
Can the Axem Rangers post with only one account please? Their self-contradicting ways are confusing, and even though they post a lot there's only so little I can actually find useful or hold them accountable for. Making sloppy mistakes like calling people to vote on Gilgamesh while he made a jokevote doesn't sit well with me.
Oddjob's also doing comparitively little. The sparsity of his messages are both comforting and alarming--the former only because reading walls of text isn't fun. I'd set him at equal height as Gumshoe as far as suspicion goes... because Gumshoe doesn't make a lot of sense to me! His entire attacks seem focused on "post content", appraising the quantity of game-relevant information instead of the quality of the information.
Prinnies>Gumshoe>>Axem Rangers=Weasel Buntai=Oddjob>>>Tony=Guildenstern>everyone else as far as my suspicions go right now.
-
Guildenstern: - Long posts filled with fluff, dood, but that's alright, since it's just how he is.
- Has his "die of destiny" proclaim the weasels guilty, and never moves that vote, dood.
- Justifies vote for weasels, then calls for Gumshoe and Oddjob to speak up. Finishes by taking a quick jab at the Axem Rangers.
- His last post has him apologize for the flavor, then take a quick look at everyone to assess the situation, dood. He then points out Tony and the Weasels for where his real suspicions lie (Tony for his case on Smithers, the Weasels for Smithers' case against them), and keeps his vote on the weasels, dood.
Oddjob. Has a spiffy hat, dood!: - Comes in late with a vote on Smithers, saying that he hasn't been saying much with his posts, dood. He also looks suspiciously at the weasels.
- He then disappears for a while, and comes back in, satisfied with Smithers' latest contributions, dood. He also asks for Smithers' list of suspects, in order, for what Oddjob has chosen for his reasons for hunting, dood. He continues by voting for Tony for following the case on Smithers, dood.
Tony: - Starts off with a joke(?)vote against Gumshoe, then later states he doesn't trust Ard, dood.
- Starts going off on Smithers for flip-flopping, dood, then pokes Oddjob to speak and Whim to stop speaking in moon runes.
- Has one more post where he continues attacking Smithers, and also points out what the Axem Rangers had done up until that point, and gets on Whim's case for speaking in her moon runes, dood. Then, he goes on to say the weasels are right, and that Guildenstern hadn't said much of anything until just recently, and keeps his vote on Smithers, dood.
Smithers: - Starts with a joke vote on Gumshoe, then moves on to a suspicion of the weasels, only to immediately drop the case. The only mention they have of the weasels in their next post, dood, is that the weasels are 'cage-rattling.' (We'd also like to see what, exactly, you mean by cage-rattling, dood)
- Comes in later with a lot to say, but it's mostly just ranting, dood. Not cool. He also complains about Ard being tl;dr territory, but not Guildenstern, dood? Something seems a little off there, dood. Also hasn't mentioned the weasels once in that post, dood.
- Switches his vote from Ard to Tony, but continues to say that Ard seems guilty because of fluff, and only votes Tony because he seems aggressive but non-committal, which is what Tony does, dood.
- Comes out of nowhere simply to say comment on Oddjob's missed vote, and to say nothing else for the rest of the day so far, dood.
Weasel Squad: - Another one that's kinda hard to follow, dood.
- Jokevotes Oddjob to start, dood, then switches it to a joke(?)vote on the Axem Rangers.
- They then keep their vote on the Axem Rangers and call for discussion. Although, I think that they only kept their vote on the Axem Rangers because they were suspicious of the five accounts and had nothing else, dood. Seems reasonable enough to me, dood, when there was nothing else to go on.
- They then defend themselves, and move on from the Axem Rangers to Guildenstern because he hasn't been saying a lot, dood. Although they do say something weird at the end of that post, dood. At least Ard be talkin about other people. Guildenstoin just be name dropping people without really saying anything so far.
That feels a little contradictory, dood. You feel suspicious of Guildenstern for mentioning multiple people, but Ard is alright because he talks about multiple, dood?
- Keeps vote on Guildenstern, and asks Tony for clarification, dood. Then starts questioning Oddjob.
Whim: - Joke votes Tony, then switches to the weasels for their pressuring the Axem Rangers, dood.
- Asks a few questions, keeping the vote on the weasels, dood, then disappear for the day.
And now that we have everything laid out in front of us...
Theories, dood!:
- Gilgamesh needs to talk more, dood. As does Tony, the weasels, Oddjob, and Smithers.
- Out of them, though, Smithers seems the worst, dood. Not mentioning the weasels more than once, briefly, after putting a FoS on them seems weird to us, dood, just like how he complains about Ard's posts having too much fluff, but mostly leaves Guildenstern alone about it. (Despite most of Guildenstern's posts being at least half fluff/flavor, dood)
##Unvote
##Vote: Smithers
Too much going on with that one to ignore, dood.
Dropping flavor to respond to being ninja'd.
Axem Rangers: I wasn't aware that that stuff was flavor, and I thought that Gumshoe was just being Gumshoe when he talked about Oddjob's missing vote. That does change my case on you, and it's been adjusted accordingly. I'm making this list for easy access to what's been said, so there isn't a huge need to go through the whole day and wade through the fluff. Should hopefully make things quicker. As for the coming back only recently? Look at the beginning of my last post.
Whim: Eto... right now, the Prinnies are posting a large article about the day's proceedings... ano, that feels a little useless. They also called me out on voting the Weasels earlier and... aren't doing much of anything yet.
What are you going on about? I mentioned it once, and stated my reasons for it. I haven't had a chance to do anything since then. If you're unsure of something I said, then please specify which part, so it can be made clear.
-
'Talk more', says the Prinny, but if I have to talk like him and post a step-by-step opinion piece on everyone in the game, I'll pass. I don't even want to read it all, it really is as reportery as it gets. I did read the bit on me; like I said, I didn't have more to say on Tony since my last post, and unfortunately I only have the one vote, so voting for Guildenstern as well is impossible even if I wanted to right now (and if I had two votes, I'd put my second on the Prinnies right now.)
@Ard: Gumshoe lead the case on Axem, even if he messed up his voting whatsits. Why are you voting for him, again? I can't really discuss this because you're just outright wrong, as far as I can tell.
-
Sorry, dood. We meant to say "Why aren't you voting for Guildenstern, dood?" From where we're sitting, it looks like you suspect Guildenstern over Tony, dood.
-
Day 1
Gumshoe (1): Tony, Smithers, Ard
Tony (4): Whim, Axem Rangers, Smithers, Oddjob, Gilgamesh
Guildenstern (2): Ard, Weasels, Gumshoe
Oddjob (0): Weasels, Gumshoe
Whim (0): Prinnies
Weasels (1): Axem Rangers, Guildenstern, Whim, Ard
Axem Rangers (0): Weasels, Gilgamesh, Ard, Gumshoe
Ard (0): Smithers, Axem Rangers
Smithers (2): Tony, Oddjob, Prinnies
Prinnies (1): Whim
Not Voting: No One
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to Lynch. 17 Hours remain in Day 1.
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He was up there, but my suspicion that Tony is lying about his reason for voting Smithers made me stick with him, since he said this-
You basically said yourself why I am voting for Smithers. (Which I stupidly erased from the post, but whatever. Directly above what I quoted.)
As far as I can tell, our reasons weren't quite the same- I'd been annoyed at Smithers for going after people for being fluffy, he'd been annoyed at him for flinging suspicion around willy-nilly- and ignored the Axems doing similar things.
-
Ugh. Well, I'm briefly around, but walking in on an essay immediately kills my interest, so this just has to wait until I have more time to actually read that mess. It's harmful for town for simply existing, so I'm not at all happy.
-
Rosencrantz
Any signs of intelligence yet?
Guildenstern
Nope.
Rosencrantz
Then this missive will not add much, mostly because neither Tony nor the Weasels have posted further!
Guildenstern
Even ignoring the Weasels' joke vote earlier in the day... can I suggest to others to ask what they have done otherwise? Suspect me, yes, but precious little else. Hamlet has done more in his moping, as has even our silent assassin Mr. Job.
Rosencrantz
Well, without having seen either Tony or the W. Squad post, there's not much for us to add. Prinies, it's nice that you've joined us, but... I'm not sure you're getting anywhere with that.
Guildenstern
But it's still not as bad as the weasels, who at best have been useless, and at worst attempting to lurk through Day 1. I perhaps may be biased but so it goes. Vote continues to stay weasely.
-
ARD. ARD ARD. Ard? ARDARDARD.
Liz: Oh my! I know I poked the prinnies with a Scientific Research Prod, but Ard and I weren't quite expecting to see all that in response. Reports by Whim and the Axems have already drawn the proper conclusions about this posting style: the ratio of words to actual content is terrifyingly large. Prinnies, having a summary of all events to occur over the last two days might be convenient, but it certainly took a massive amount of time to type up and it ultimately tells us almost nothing about you. You make what's surely the longest speech of this convention and your conclusions are barely a blip in comparison. Ard speculates that this might be an effort to look productive while not actually being so, and would consider placing his vote on the prinnies were we not still waiting for our previous vote to serve its purpose (Dick Gumshoe hasn't spoken since our vote; just as importantly, we still wish to hear what others think about him).
-
Ard and I have taken a close look at this detective's reports and found that most of his data is actually derived from material originated by others, as though Mr. Gumshoe were watching for safe cases while avoiding making one of his own. His suspicions of the Axems, Tony, and Guildenstern echo those of others alarmingly closely.
It's like the Axem said himself, pal. As for Guilstendern, that was as much about the excessive - what was it you guys called it? 'flavor'..? - as it was about the lack of contribution.
Ano, Gumshoe-san... first you say Whim talks too much, now I say too little?
Look, pal. When you talk, you talk a lot. It doesn't help our investigation, though. If you're gonna keep yammering on, at least give us something to work with, you know?
(http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy156/Detekative/gumshoe-sideb.gif)
It's been a rough day, pal. I've been working 25 hours a day just so I can get a decent meal, and they expect me to read through pages and pages of files? I'm not liking that at all right now. (IOW, less WoT please.) Still, good to see that everyone else has reappeared in the time I've been working!
That post by the penguins is bad news, pal. I don't like a journalist at the best of times, let alone when they're supposed to be investigating. That said, they really don't seem like the criminal type! Just... a really bad witness? Although some things there really raise my hackles, like their entire "case" on the Axems. This is why I hate those journalistic types - lots of talking, but they always seem to miss the key points, and it turns out useless, since you have to re-read the posts to know the context anyway.
---
W-whoa! Jammin' Ninjas all round! I'm agreeing with Guilstendern, though - where'd those weasels get to?
Ard, pal, I'm... really not seeing your case, honestly. Seems like the only basis was that I'd been taking other cases only, which was then proved to be wrong? Am I missing something again, pal?
-
If you're looking for stuff we actually have to say, dood, then ignore the recaps. That was purely a convenience thing. (Etna doesn't pay us enough to go through every little detail over and over again in each and every post, dood!)
You sure seem to be acting strange of late, Ard, dood. Even after your only case on Gumshoe is proven wrong, you continue to vote for him, and don't mention any other reasons why. Care to enlighten us now that Gumshoe has spoken, dood?
Guildenstern does bring up a good point, though, dood. The weasels certainly haven't done much this game, despite all of their talking.
We'll definitely take a closer look at that, Gilgamesh, dood. Your actions certainly make more sense now. And we're glad Smithers is around, even if we're still waiting on him to respond, dood.
Ard and Tony are definitely climbing the ladders of suspicion, dood, but Smithers still tops it, for now. Definitely wanting to hear from those three, though, dood.
-
Ard? Ard! Ard ard. Ard ard ard. ARD ard ard ard ard!
Liz: Ard is confident that our behavior is precisely as strange as it has always been, prinny squad. Er...What I mean to say is that despite your attempts at unrestrained summarization you seem to be overlooking important facts, sacrificing important details for an attempt at sweeping scope. I will demonstrate this by debunking the following assertion:
You sure seem to be acting strange of late, Ard, dood. Even after your only case on Gumshoe is proven wrong, you continue to vote for him, and don't mention any other reasons why. Care to enlighten us now that Gumshoe has spoken, dood?
ARD. Ard ard. Ard! Ard ard ardardard ard ard!
Liz: We made it quite explicit in our last statement why our vote remained on Dick Gumshoe. "Dick Gumshoe hasn't spoken since our vote; just as importantly, we still wish to hear what others think about him." It's a waste of time and a vote to unvote before the object of suspicion has had a chance to respond to the charges! Additionally, the case you flatly declare to be "proven wrong" has not been conclusively shown as such. The Axems correctly point out that Dick Gumshoe made a valid point against the Axems that no one else had considered, but this hardly absolves every case that Mr. Gumshoe has made. Other accusations he's made do overlap with those proposed by other henchpeople and this is behavior that Ard and I watch for because research has shown it to be an effective way for lurking dogooders to hide in plain sight. Remaining silent is not the only way for our enemies to try and avoid attention, after all.
But this missive is growing overly lengthy. To summarize, my theory about Mr. Gumshoe was not 100% correct, but I do still consider him someone worth watching. I will now shift the focus of my attention elsewhere, however, to something Mr. Gumshoe himself agrees with me about...the prinny squad. I have already expounded on the ineffectiveness of summary as a means of investigation, so I will now instead move on to the following comment:
Ard and Tony are definitely climbing the ladders of suspicion, dood, but Smithers still tops it, for now. Definitely wanting to hear from those three, though, dood.
Ardard ardard ard. Ard! ARD ard ard.
Liz: Now, this is perplexing for other reasons. Tony is "climbing the ladders of suspicion?" On what basis do you suspect him? The only mention you've previously made of him is a couple bullet points in your omnibus summary and you drew no conclusions about him then beyond a brief (if you'll pardon the vernacular) "talk moar." Others have made cases against Mr. Tony. You have not. And now suddenly he's one of your major suspects and you don't tell us why? Ard suspects bandwagoning and so do I.
##Unvote: Dick Gumshoe
##Vote: Prinny Squad
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It's been a rough day, pal. I've been working 25 hours a day just so I can get a decent meal,
ARD!
Liz: Twenty-five hours a day? So the time dilation device DID work! Oh joyous news!
Complete joke post, ignore and focus on the previous post if you must but I'm having too much fun to not do this.
-
*Considering what has been said. Wonders how much time is left (Mod?).*
*Agreeing with Ard re: opinions on Prinny & Gumshoe.*
*Kind of wary of Guildenstern. At least consistent re: Weasels, which is agreeable. Going to take another look at the Guildenstern/Weasels thing.*
*Oddjob notices Tony is leading on 4 votes; that could chance easily.. would still like to know how much time is left.*
-
So the maid wants only one of us to talk? What a killjoy! Whatever. I'll do it, but only because Pink will think I'm a great guy. Even more that she already does, of course!
These penguins are real jokers, aren't they? They feed us a bunch of info we already have and conclude with a list of people that need to speak up and attack based on Early Day 1 actions! Surely they can form a better strategy than that? The only thing sorrier than this is that Tony guy still not defending himself!
I'd talk more about them but that Ardovich guy already got to 'em good. Probably pushing for another promotion or something. No paint on my nose, I prefer this kind of work!
Hatman, Countdown says there's 13 hours left in the day. (I really am a great guy!)
-
Ask and ye shall receive (eventually)
Day 1
Gumshoe (0): Tony, Smithers, Ard
Tony (4): Whim, Axem Rangers, Smithers, Oddjob, Gilgamesh
Guildenstern (2): Ard, Weasels, Gumshoe
Oddjob (0): Weasels, Gumshoe
Whim (0): Prinnies
Weasels (1): Axem Rangers, Guildenstern, Whim, Ard
Axem Rangers (0): Weasels, Gilgamesh, Ard, Gumshoe
Ard (0): Smithers, Axem Rangers
Smithers (2): Tony, Oddjob, Prinnies
Prinnies (2): Whim, Ard
Not Voting: No One
With 11 alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch. There are 9 hours, 45 minutes remaining in Day 1.
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Tony is looking more suspicious because we're starting to see the case on him, dood. That's what we were talking about with Gilgamesh.
Other than that, we're still waiting for Smithers and Tony to come back with more than Smithers' "I'm alive" post, dood.
-
Okay, so here I am again. I'll follow through with a real post when I've actually read the mess, but I have one immediately pressing concern first:
Both Tony and the weasels have been out of our midst for coming up on 48 hours. What's going on there? In particular, assuming the former does not return, is there any point in stringing him up now? And also, if there is mysterious instantaneous combustion, will that cause night to fall instantly or not?
-
Inactivity Modkills will never cause day to end. However, town can choose to either lynch and ensure their death, or to wait for the modkill and get the extra kill, but accept that the poster in question can escape by posting at the last second. As things stand, no Day 1 modkill is expected, though a Day 2 modkill may be a possibility.
-
(http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy156/Detekative/gumshoe-normalb.gif)
I don't like these "I'll stand and wait" posts, pal. If you're gonna take some action, take some action as soon as you can! Th-that's just... usually late for me! That's all, pal!
Both the Prinnies and Oddjob have done this here - although, at least the Prinnies actually present some reason for waiting, you know? Oddjob's just kinda standing around for the sake of standing around, and I don't like it one bit, pal.
##Unvote
##Vote: Oddjob
'though, if I'd been voting for Tony or the Prinnies before, it wouldn't be worth changing vote. The three of them all look pretty guilty to me, and they need to seriously start picking up the pace if they're gonna get anywhere soon, pal!
-
On those questions addressed to me:
#57 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89492#msg89492) Ard: cage-rattling here was just the panic-mongering of drawing attention to two people for having yet to show up, as you had surmised earlier. In the post you're replying to (#51 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89450#msg89450)), I was saying that if you weren't trying to draw attention to them (as you said at #27 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89297#msg89297)), then it was just more meaningless fluff, and that either way it read poorly. On the latter topic of fluff, I think we can agree to just drop it even given our difference in opinion, as it is no longer of consequence here.
#61 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89549#msg89549) Oddjob: I made it clear in #51 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89450#msg89450) who I thought were worse offenders (early Ard, Guildenstern and the weasels), although in fairness that wasn't near my direct response to you.
#69 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89645#msg89645) Prinny Squad:
-The weasels' cage-rattling was the panic-mongering of actually trying to suggest that the Axems' multiple spokesmen was inherently dodgy. I'm not sure why I need to explain this when not only I said so in my FoS post (#23 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89285#msg89285)), but this was the reason that everyone jumped on them at the same time.
-You're thinking tl;dr on the wrong scale - Guildenstern's style is conducive for easy reading even if long, whereas Ard's blocks of obfuscated writing is/was not, so no, I see nothing wrong there. I have no problem (and indeed encourage) flavor that does not obfuscate (I simply outright suck at RP myself), so Guildenstern's style is fine by me for what it is.
-Unvoting Ard and voting Tony because the former improving and the latter getting horribly worse is bad now? Now you're getting really horribly contrived.
-The Oddjob comment was as I was still around at the time. Lack of activity is a daft thing to throw at me, especially from you at that point, as I'd been gone for less time than you had been.
-Your later weasels point is at least mostly pointless given that I was on them for the early daft panic-mongering, which didn't follow through, after which they've fallen foul to the words:content ratio and then not being present and I've... talked about them for these very reasons (albeit the latter after this post in question). More pressing concerns, little more to say on them that they've had little more to say.
I don't know, it feels like you're trying to force it. I'll get back to you in a bit after I read the rest of your posts, but if it's all like that then it's looking like my vote is a choice between you and Tony (for more OMGUS action, no less).
Breaking it at this point. Actual new analysis to follow directly.
-
Smithers' List Of Bad Things
-Tony. No new content to comment on so I'll leave it at that.
-Guildenstern #55 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89477#msg89477). I like your style, but agree with Gilgamesh #56 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89490#msg89490) that the actual content of #55 was remarkable in its neutrality and effective non-existence. #75 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89678#msg89678) is better, but only marginally.
-Oddjob #61 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89549#msg89549), in which his entire case on Tony is based on time travel (Tony #44 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89412#msg89412) not reflecting Smithers #51 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89450#msg89450) - even though Oddjob #43 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89393#msg89393) (immediately before the offending Tony post!) is anti-Smithers). Surprised this hasn't been caught before now, because this is one of the worst cases I've seen in a while.
-Prinny Squad #66 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89620#msg89620) and #69 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89645#msg89645). I know you were gone for a long time and all, but walls of text are horrible for the spirit, and you didn't even need to write most of it. In fact yeah, having actually now read the whole thing I can only conclude holy hell do I want my time back. Pointless, harmful, full of holes, and easily the worst thing that's happened to the game so far. Let me know if you actually want me to point out specifics, but that will take ages and another wall of text to embark on, and the nods of agreement I'm seeing from other people looking at those posts makes me feel like there's not much of a need.
-Whim #68 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89631#msg89631) inconsistency. Oddjob=Gumshoe in the actual text, and then Gumshoe>>Oddjob in the final ratings. Please re-address this.
-Prinny Squad #78 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89707#msg89707) for what feels like another horribly forced case, this time on Ard, the latter of whom I agree with regarding the potential bandwagon set up.
In fact, I really don't think I can justify doing anything other than:
##UNVOTE: Tony
##VOTE: Prinny Squad
I'm as suspicious of Tony as I ever was, but it's almost like you're trying to get lynched here, and I'm willing to take the odds of Tony spontaneously combusting or getting better at this point.
To ape Whim, the top of my list looks like: Prinny Squad > Tony > (some mess of Oddjob, the weasels and Guildenstern).
On other quick matters, I'm not finding much to take issue with Dick, and of the quieter amongst us I'm yet to take real offense with either Gilgamesh or Whim. Particularly Gilgamesh.
I'm off now, unless there are immediate questions to follow. I'll see if I can get on before the deadline, but odds are this is my last post of the day.
-
Yes, without any real responses, it's very hard to continue talking about my current case. But I have another thing to talk about.
Eight hours to go, and Gumshoe decides to open a new case when two other people who appear to seem just as bad to him are on the table to lynch? Why would you do that and not look at the existing cases? I can't think of intentionally spreading around suspicion and candidates at this point to be a good thing unless you're putting someone clearly ahead of others. As for the case on Oddjob, I can't see the problem here; he's standing around uh with his vote on Tony, and there really is nothing more to say about it from what I can tell.
-
We have an appointment with Mack today, so we can't stick around for too long.
This Tony fella - or dare I say Antonio? Possibly related to MARIO? - has been a total coward! He won't even show his face to defend himself! Pathetic! Goombas are more dependable than you! I'm not deviating from my attack plan at all!
Smithers, what are you doing? Word of Mod already says Tony isn't spontaneously combusting today, and after all this you think he actually has a chance to get better? You can't be serious! The penguins may look terrible, but at least they've been around to talk and defend themselves!
-
Day 1
Gumshoe (0): Tony, Smithers, Ard
Tony (3): Whim, Axem Rangers, Smithers, Oddjob, Gilgamesh
Guildenstern (1): Ard, Weasels, Gumshoe
Oddjob (1): Weasels, Gumshoe, Gumshoe
Whim (0): Prinnies
Weasels (1): Axem Rangers, Guildenstern, Whim, Ard
Axem Rangers (0): Weasels, Gilgamesh, Ard, Gumshoe
Ard (0): Smithers, Axem Rangers
Smithers (2): Tony, Oddjob, Prinnies
Prinnies (3): Whim, Ard, Smithers
Not Voting: No One
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to Lynch, not that we're in danger of that.
120 Minutes left in Day 1, or, 2 hours.
EDIT: I like failing in creative ways.
-
*Oddjob has decided he is comfortable with his vote on Tony; scum have more reason to go AWOL than town, and 'not defending himself' and 'trying to get lynched' =/= town behavior.*
*Oddjob notices Smithers tie up the vote by moving away from Tony and onto Prinnies, and whether there is any correlation between that and Prinnies putting Smithers to 2 votes.*
*Oddjob wonders if this will go to sudden death, as Tony is on 3 and so is Prinnies (Smithers on 2?).*
-
Act I. Scene IV.
Guildenstern
Still no weasels.
Rosencrantz
The hour is late, but it seems that no one is taking up the banner of weasel-slaying regardless.
Guildenstern
With respect to the Prinnies... at first I had thought his recaps mere drunken babble, not helpful yet also harmless. However, the Prinnies could certainly be accused of bandwagoning... though the comment that "the Prinnies only noticed the case on Tony now" is potentially plausible (though everything was there when they were doing their giant recap post!). Unsure.
Rosencrantz
Honestly, my gut is somewhat "incompetent townie" here, but...
Guildenstern
...we all know how safe it is to let that kind of excuse last.
Rosencrantz
Not really agreeing with Gumshoe's case on Oddjob, either. Oddjob has been on the quiet side but I defintely feel there are much better targets.
Guildenstern
Wonder if anything interesting will pop up. I shall stay around for a bit, see if any near-deadline developments occur.
-
I am alive, I will be reading up on shit. I just woke up from literally working all day, brain fried, will not explain further at the risk of revealing my identity.
The mod asked me to say I'm reading and posting. So I am.
If anyone holds this against me with some bizarre logic I will be extremely displeased.
-
Day 1
Gumshoe (0): Tony, Smithers, Ard
Tony (3): Whim, Axem Rangers, Smithers, Oddjob, Gilgamesh
Guildenstern (1): Ard, Weasels, Gumshoe
Oddjob (1): Weasels, Gumshoe, Gumshoe
Whim (0): Prinnies
Weasels (1): Axem Rangers, Guildenstern, Whim, Ard
Axem Rangers (0): Weasels, Gilgamesh, Ard, Gumshoe
Ard (0): Smithers, Axem Rangers
Smithers (2): Tony, Oddjob, Prinnies
Prinnies (3): Whim, Ard, Smithers
Not Voting: No One
One hour remaining.
-
So first of all, defense of ridiculous accusations:
Smithers: What the fuck are you talking about? Non-committal reporter types? Someone asked me to comment on other cases. I comment on other cases. You use it as a case against me? How frustrating. I summed out what I thought about each major case as well as throwing Whim into the fire because I suspect her. Let alone the fact that you use my playstyle against me. I really fucking appreciate that. Really.
Axem Rangers: Conceded. I missed that part, which is pretty important.
##UNVOTE: Smithers
Gilgamesh's post is such a mess that I don't even know what to say to it. Our reasons weren't 'quite' the same? I baaasically considered Smithers as someone who said little and a lot simultaneously, but I believe (mistakenly) that he was being waffly because he was not voting. I was wrong. I didn't see where he said that. I try to read every single person's post fully but I've been busy. I feel like Gilgy has been pretty brash without the excuse of flavor, which is off-putting but not really scummy.
The person I personally see the strongest case for is Whim. Up until now I try to convince myself that there is content in her posts and that I'm just not reading it as well as I should because the way she talks drives me mad. I just don't see much there. Do I think voting for Whim would be helpful at all at this juncture? Not really. I want to say that she is not suspicious because she put me lower on her suspicion list but that's not really fair. I also think that her OMGUS claim against the Weasel Squad was outright wrong; just because you vote for the person who voted you doesn't mean you are OMGUSing. That was basically the only post they've made thus far that I thought was of any worth.
The problem here is that the Prinnies share my gaming style, which is to methodically recap things that are happening, vote based off the recap which is just as much airing out a person's thought as anything. Apparently people find this offensive but I think that it's fine. As perhaps suicidal as it may be, I don't really want to vote for them.
Weasels have been gone even longer than me and well honestly I've been gone a while and I can't fault them for this frankly. They have been light on content since the game began, the one major post being when they vote for Guildenstern. I... hm. I feel like that, for better or worse, I have done things to try to invoke discussion, and I feel like the Weasel Squad was light on that even when they were around (and the Axem Rangers thing feels unintended).
Oddjob... I like his posting style but I really wish he would have addressed what Smithers asked in the last post. Bad vibes but unjustifiable.
So basically I will not vote for Prinnies, I will not vote for myself, and I think Smithers has been significantly better in the latter parts of the day (even though I was harsh toward him earlier). Out of the major cases made that people will actually vote for, I feel like the one against the weasels is the best.
##VOTE: Weasels
As hypocritical as I might be for using part of my argument as lurking, but I feel like even beyond that it seemed like his posts didn't say all that much aside from the one.
-
*Oddjob has stuck around to read Tony's response, and is reasonably satisfied; ##Unvote: Tony.*
*Oddjob agrees that the lack of weasels is worth a lynch; ##Vote: Weasels.*
*Oddjob is aware that he looks like is copy-catting Tony, but is acting on the best course of action. Oddjob doesn't want to rely on mod kill hammers and such.*
-
Half an hour left. Weasels and the Prinnies lead the scoreboard in what might be Sudden Death!
Day 1
Gumshoe (0): Tony, Smithers, Ard
Tony (2): Whim, Axem Rangers, Smithers, Oddjob, Gilgamesh
Guildenstern (1): Ard, Weasels, Gumshoe
Oddjob (1): Weasels, Gumshoe, Gumshoe
Whim (0): Prinnies
Weasels (3): Axem Rangers, Guildenstern, Whim, Ard, Tony, Oddjob
Axem Rangers (0): Weasels, Gilgamesh, Ard, Gumshoe
Ard (0): Smithers, Axem Rangers
Smithers (1): Tony, Oddjob, Prinnies
Prinnies (3): Whim, Ard, Smithers
Not Voting: No One
-
Yeah, yeah, we get it, dood. No more lists, lists are bad, etc; dood. We'll start recapping before we post, and try to delete the recaps before we post from now on, ok dood? Now maybe you want us to shine your shoes, or perhaps fetch you drinks, dood?
##Unvote
As much as Smithers is offensive to all the senses, dood, there's no point trying to pursue him any longer. Just because we're saying that we're waiting for you to post doesn't mean we're accusing you of inactivity, dood. Chill out. Like, seriously. Chill.
Given the circumstances, dood, unless someone can make a very convincing case otherwise, the weasels disappearing when they were taken off the pressure cooker doesn't sit well with us, dood...
##Vote: Weasel Squad
-
Fark sorry
-
Tom's a Henchman? Gasp, Shock, and AWE!!!
Find out all this and more in the ever exciting last 15 minutes of Day 1!
-
Prinny:
It rubs me the wrong way that you didn't just admit you were changing your vote to save your skin. That would have been the towny thing to do. Not make up something about Weasels not sitting well with you, just because it's the prevailing opinion.
##Unvote; ##Vote: Prinny
Deception is scummy.
/cbf roleplaying anymore
-
ARD! Ard. Ard ard ard.
Liz: Ard is here and should remain attentive until the deadline. There seems little more to say, however; the weasels have had a distressingly long absence and, unlike Tony, they have not returned, and they also had less substantial content before they disappeared. We are more comfortable with their lynch than with Tony's and agree with this change in direction of votes. There seems little reason to move our vote from the prinnies at this late juncture, so I'll just note we don't intend to do so unless it's clearly needed elsewhere (I.E., someone less deserving of a lynch than the weasels or prinnies somehow takes the lead again, which seems very unlikely given we only have fifteen minutes).
-
Mrf. I... man, I've been so clumsy today. Bah. I originally typed "Given the circumstances, dood, we like living. And unless someone can make a very convincing case otherwise, the weasels disappearing when they were taken off the pressure cooker doesn't sit well with us, dood..." That was... really bad, wow.
-
(http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy156/Detekative/gumshoe-pumpeda.gif)
This day's turnin' out to be a real mess, pal. Tony's showed up again and, while that ain't clearing what suspicions there were, that puts him lower than certain other suspects in this case.
Honestly, pal, I don't like either of these squads much. It'll be interesting to see if the Weasels show up by the end of the day, but I think I'm happy to see the Weasels cruise to a lynch.
As for my vote on Oddjob, for those who asked, he seemed the most suspicious to me. I was pretty confident I'd be around now, so I knew I could change it if needed, but I'm always gonna go for the most suspicious right 'til the last minute.
---
Jammin' Ninja in a Hat! - Listen up, pal. I'm liking the look of you less and less. Don't go throwin' your vote around aimlessly in a pressure situation. If it weren't useless there, I'd be leaving my vote on you and callin' for a lynch.
As it is, I'm gonna have to choose.
##Unvote, ##Vote: Weasel Squad
Definitely much worse. Bad (but seemingly Town) contribution is better than nothin' at all, pal.
-
Axem: while I said I'd chance the instant-Tony-combustion happening, I also made it clear that I prefer/red stringing the Prinnies up.
I was about to state how bad the last minute swing to the weasels felt, but Oddjob continues to confuse (=/= look scummy) by bringing it back to the Prinnies. Also yes, the time travel went unanswered, so I don't know what's going on there.
Still happiest with a Prinny lynch, even with Tony back to deal with. Not that I've had a chance to actually read the longer posts in-depth yet.
Repeat ninjas. Just want this out before deadline.
-
Alright! Time up, stop yer pos... wait, what?
Day 1
Gumshoe (0): Tony, Smithers, Ard
Tony (2): Whim, Axem Rangers, Smithers, Oddjob, Gilgamesh
Guildenstern (1): Ard, Weasels, Gumshoe
Oddjob (0): Weasels, Gumshoe, Gumshoe
Whim (0): Prinnies
Weasels (4): Axem Rangers, Guildenstern, Whim, Ard, Tony, Oddjob, Prinnies, Gumshoe
Axem Rangers (0): Weasels, Gilgamesh, Ard, Gumshoe
Ard (0): Smithers, Axem Rangers
Smithers (0): Tony, Oddjob, Prinnies
Prinnies (4): Whim, Ard, Smithers, Oddjob
Not Voting: No One
We have a tie, folks. Sudden Death is GO!
This game is too small for two squads, and Day 1 will not end until one of them has more votes, be it by a vote, or an unvote.
-
Well, I generally support either lynch but am in stronger support of the Prinny lynch, so I'm fairly confident that I'm not breaking this deadlock.
-
Does this make it claim time, dood?
-
Dick, Earl of Gumshoe
Definitely much worse. Bad (but seemingly Town) contribution is better than nothin' at all, pal.
Rosencrantz
What he said.
Guildenstern
I doubt I'll be breaking the deadlock anytime soon. I won't be sorry about a Prinny lynch but still prefer the Weasels, so no vote change here short of shocking roleclaim developments.
Rosencrantz
Tony's post seemed sensible enough as well, not that the point is relevant now.
-
Penguin
Does this make it claim time, dood?
Guildenstern
Considering that the Weasels can lynch you whenever they show up by changing their vote, that would be wise, yes.
-
Breaking character a moment, I'd actually resigned to just bow out before I took one last look at the topic and noticed something... no Whim. Has she even had a post since she OMGUS'd us? Where's the shock at her being absent? It feels to me that Guildenstern has been covering for her absence by trumpeting other peoples' time away, almost to the exclusion of me. If I were to be here tomorrow, those two are where I'd be looking.
I'm vanilla town. Unless the Prinnies can claim something better.
-
Well, as much as some of you would like to kill us off for good, dood, the Prince wouldn't like that much. So if you kill us, then once per day, after everyone's posted, we get to let out our inner poet in the form of haiku, dood. Aside from that, we're just regular town, though, dood.
-
Hm. I take it back. I see one Whim post where she switches to the Prinnies, but it also constitutes the most helpful she's been all Day and thats it. Granted, probably moreso than I, but it feels like both her and Guildenstern have been saying as little as possible to stay above suspicion.
-
To heck with it. Just staring at each other won't help much, better to take decisive action. I'll take my lumps tomorrow.
##Unvote: Guildenstern
##Vote: Prinnies
-
And that's the lynch, stop posting! Not that you were before this...
-
Rosencrantz: Well, we seem to be at an impasse, so, the first thing to do is to kill all the teachers!
Mob: Hear, hear!
Tony: What? You gotta be kidding me. Haven't you read any books? It's Lawyers, not teachers!
Oddjob shrugs his shoulders at this, then gestures at the rest, asking the silent question of what the alchemist would do.
Tony: Well, any moron can see that there's too damn many of us! Those Axem things have cut down their numbers, but there's still too many of those squad freaks.
Mod: He's right! The squads must die!
And so it was that the two squads faced off, the weasels against the prinnies. It started with some taunts from the weasels, then a cry of "There can only be one, dood!" as the lead prinny charged. And promptly fell over a pebble. The resulting attempts to try and rescue their dignity just went downhill from there, with only a few of the ones helping being remotely useful, most of the rest making faces or dancing, and a random explosion happening somewhere as one of them somehow accidentally got thrown.
It was, all in all, far more effective than a real attack would have been against the toons they faced. But the weasel leader managed to keep his boys from laughing, and just chucked the prinnes against a wall when they weren't looking.
PRINNY SQUAD {TOWN GHOSTWRITER} has been detonated.
Night has come upon the henchs. Send in your actions, and pray for the dawn.
Day 1
Gumshoe (0): Tony, Smithers, Ard
Tony (2): Whim, Axem Rangers, Smithers, Oddjob, Gilgamesh
Guildenstern (0): Ard, Weasels, Gumshoe
Oddjob (0): Weasels, Gumshoe, Gumshoe
Whim (0): Prinnies
Weasels (4): Axem Rangers, Guildenstern, Whim, Ard, Tony, Oddjob, Prinnies, Gumshoe
Axem Rangers (0): Weasels, Gilgamesh, Ard, Gumshoe
Ard (0): Smithers, Axem Rangers
Smithers (0): Tony, Oddjob, Prinnies
Prinnies (5): Whim, Ard, Smithers, Oddjob, Weasels
Not Voting: No One
-
Everyone went to their rooms uneasily, hoping they would all still be there when the morning returned. Sadly, that was not to be. During the night, an unearthly shrieking sound came from the Filgaian's room. When everyone arrived, all that remained where holes in reality, and the melted remnants of a machine, the ruined casing bearing holes that showed a maliciously inserted monkey wrench. Of Liz and Ard, there was no sign save for an utterly ruined medical kit.
Ard and Liz, {TOWN DOCTOR} have been Time Dialated.
With heavy hearts, town reconvened to select yet another target.
Day 2 starts, with 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. There are 72 hours remaining in Day 2.
-
Whoa, it's Night 1 and Day 2 at the same time!
I've decided Antonimario isn't worth attacking right now - his defense was satisfactory, and Day 1 scout attacks aren't usually continuing anyway. Don't have enough power behind 'em.
##Vote: Smithers
You retreating from Tony, who hadn't raised a hand in defense, and refocusing on the penguins, who we now see weren't guilty of anything, is easily the scummiest thing I can see!
-
YOU WILL ALL BE PUNISHED FOR GETTING BAD GRADES!
I feel like the argument against Smithers that was just put forth by Axem Red is, while something I can't combat, its ramifications (that the vote was a weak vote that really wanted to be directed elsewhere) are ones that I know aren't true but I am not an objective judge on the situation, of course.
The train on the Prinny Squad was outright bizarre as I stated yesterday, I have no idea what the Weasels did that made them better than the Prinnies at all. Oh no not a recap! I didn't realize recapping events was synonymous with scumminess.
But right now the main crux of my ranting is aimed at two people: Whim and Gumshoe.
Whim hasn't really done anything more than the things I briefly harped on yesterday, but I find her less scummy in hindsight. She started the train on Prinnies from the Weasels, which seems limited in its ability to bait others (except it did so what do I know). Maybe she saw the potential for a large train to form on Prinnies or whatever but right now she gets the benefit of the doubt.
Now for Gumshoe:
I see Gumshoe as someone who teeters between being a non-factor and making really bizarre arguments. He says he would keep his vote on the Prinnies or myself but was fine with voting for Oddjob. I think this is pretty strange because it's very dice-rolley, as well as his defense of Prinnies in one post and a very cursory next post saying that the Prinnies are bad and that he'd vote for them. He doesn't comment on me except to say that I am abrasive and then he says he had suspicions of me that weren't cleared.
He talks a lot and votes for a lot of people, but it never seems like he goes anywhere with what he says and at times he contradicts what he says. At this point it seems like he's voted for almost everyone (and sent an indictment toward me and the Prinnies.). I believe he has said a lot of stuff but it seems like the crux of his arguments against everyone have been extremely non-fleshed-out in general; using weasel words like "your suspicions aren't cleared" (what are those?), calling out people for not talking, all kinds of generic but useless stuff.
##VOTE: Gumshoe
Gilgamesh still sparsely talks but I will wait for him to appear again before making too much judgment about that.
-
Day 2
Smithers (1): Axem Rangers
Gumshoe (1): Tony
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. 67 hours left in Day 2.
-
Re Smithers/Time Travel: You're right. I didn't get a chance to post about this before the end of day 1, but I stuffed up. I was posting from work and admittedly not paying as much attention as I should have been, and obviously got confused. My mistake. (That's also the reason I didn't post a whole lot early on; l was at work, real life etc).
I'm going to have to agree with Tony about Gumshoe, but there's something that Tony missed.
Right at the end of day 1, Gumshoe made this post: http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89817#msg89817
Gumshoe is horribly vague with the reasons for his votes, and inconsistent with reasoning.
As for my vote on Oddjob, for those who asked, he seemed the most suspicious to me.
No reasons listed.
I'm always gonna go for the most suspicious right 'til the last minute.
So we're supposed to trust in Gumshoe, until he changes his vote at the last minute - great consistency there.
Listen up, pal. I'm liking the look of you less and less. Don't go throwin' your vote around aimlessly in a pressure situation.
(What on Earth was wrong with my vote for Prinny? I listed my reason for voting Prinny. But Gumshoe: no reasons given again, apparently I'm just horribly suspicious, and we should implicitly trust Gumeshoe on this, since he's so great at arresting murderers and all).
If it weren't useless there, I'd be leaving my vote on you and callin' for a lynch.
If I'm so suspicious, why wouldn't you vote for me & call a lynch? Then again, maybe you should actually refer to some reasons.
As it is, I'm gonna have to choose.
##Unvote, ##Vote: Weasel Squad
Definitely much worse. Bad (but seemingly Town) contribution is better than nothin' at all, pal.
I find it interesting that he spends so long talking about Tony, then at the last minute votes Weasels (as he said he would, vote for the AFK who can't fight back etc.), and then doesn't stick around for the next 20 minutes to see Weasels post.
That last point is circumstantial at best, but it's an interesting consideration.
##Vote: Gumshoe for inconsistency, vagueness, baseless accusations and a complete failure to give any sort of reasoning other than "I'm suspicious of you! Believe it!"
Hmph. So yes I agree with Tony, but I prefer to provide quotes and links and examples, so there you have it.
-
The main reason I didn't provide links was because I did the fancy posty thing where you look at all a person's posts after I read the topic and went "Holy crap, how did I not notice Gumshoe before? Oh yeah, I was trying not to die/was swamped with work." and quoting is hard from that format.
For the Oddjobs and others, since I realize my post makes less sense without them:
Do we even have a clear suspect? I'm not liking Tony either, but it's solely based on his objectionable way of talking - his actual post content seems justified, even if it is somewhat too narrow-minded at this stage.
Guilstendern, on the other hand... What little he has said seems to be leading nowhere, and the pressure seems to have just fallen away. On that note, still looking towards others who've not said much of anything - Whim stands out, with Oddjob and Gilmagesh close behind.
Ard and Liz... as Smithers mentioned, a lot of useless information in their testimonies, but they're contributin' a decent amount as well.
With all that said, I think it's fairly obvious who the most suspicious is here, pal.
and
Both the Prinnies and Oddjob have done this here - although, at least the Prinnies actually present some reason for waiting, you know? Oddjob's just kinda standing around for the sake of standing around, and I don't like it one bit, pal.
'though, if I'd been voting for Tony or the Prinnies before, it wouldn't be worth changing vote. The three of them all look pretty guilty to me, and they need to seriously start picking up the pace if they're gonna get anywhere soon, pal!
and then the vote for the Weasels which Oddjob referred to.
Ugh. Well, I'm briefly around, but walking in on an essay immediately kills my interest, so this just has to wait until I have more time to actually read that mess. It's harmful for town for simply existing, so I'm not at all happy.
I think this is a super weaksauce argument and you seem to be needlessly bitter to the Prinny for a wall of text that really wasn't even that long. If I hadn't been so dead(as in emo) at the end of Day 1 I would have kicked you so hard in the balls for this. I'm not sure if I think this is scummy or just a great gap in our (Mafia) values.
-
Long recaps and the like don't provide new information and do very little but waste time. They can also serve as a convenient way of not actually discussing anything, but keeping up appearances nonetheless. I can't fault people for finding this scummy at all, and do so myself.
That aside- #Vote: Gumshoe. I found him pretty bad towards the end of the day too; the vote for Oddjob and eventual switch to Weasels seems pretty bizzare, particularly in the light of his earlier statement ('Tony/Prinnies are fine too!'), and the other main point I see is his weird calling out of Oddjob.
He's kinda one behind Oddjob himself for me at present, whose arguments I just cannot quite stomach. Voting out the Prinny's for trying to convince people to vote the other guy is kind of off, it's stupid to begrudge people trying to save themselves in an effective way. Similarily, calling out Gumshoe for not voting Oddjob towards the end of the day is pretty dumb, since it's the end of the day and sometimes it seems like you won't get to lynch your first choice.
Not sure what to think about Axem's vote for smithers. I hardly think the actions he relates are the scummiest thing around though. Changing votes, it's not a sin, and the penguins hardly looked clean.
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Voting out the Prinny's for trying to convince people to vote the other guy is kind of off, it's stupid to begrudge people trying to save themselves in an effective way.
No.
Go back and read it again, here is the link: http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89807#msg89807
Prinny's efforts to "convince people to vote the other guy" consisted of: Given the circumstances, dood, unless someone can make a very convincing case otherwise, the weasels disappearing when they were taken off the pressure cooker doesn't sit well with us, dood...
That's it.
His efforts were weak.
He failed to mention the most basic reason why he should have been voting Weasel - to save his own skin.
I found him to be un-townlike because his defense was pathetic.
My strategy might be meta, but don't you dare suggest that I voted him because he was trying to save himself 'in an effective way', because he was not.
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(Sorry in advance for this one. Gonna take a post to defend myself before looking at new arguments.)
(http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy156/Detekative/gumshoe-headscratch.gif)
As for my vote on Oddjob, for those who asked, he seemed the most suspicious to me.
No reasons listed.
I don't like these "I'll stand and wait" posts, pal. If you're gonna take some action, take some action as soon as you can! Th-that's just... usually late for me! That's all, pal!
Both the Prinnies and Oddjob have done this here - although, at least the Prinnies actually present some reason for waiting, you know? Oddjob's just kinda standing around for the sake of standing around, and I don't like it one bit, pal.
Just 'cause it's not in the post you quote, doesn't mean it's not there at all. You need to actually read the topic before you go presenting an argument, pal.
I'm always gonna go for the most suspicious right 'til the last minute.
So we're supposed to trust in Gumshoe, until he changes his vote at the last minute - great consistency there.
This whole job is about trust for all of us, pal! If I think someone's suspicious, I'm voting for them until there is absolutely no chance that they're getting lynched or until they move behind someone else in suspicion.
Listen up, pal. I'm liking the look of you less and less. Don't go throwin' your vote around aimlessly in a pressure situation.
(What on Earth was wrong with my vote for Prinny? I listed my reason for voting Prinny. But Gumshoe: no reasons given again, apparently I'm just horribly suspicious, and we should implicitly trust Gumeshoe on this, since he's so great at arresting murderers and all).
What was wrong with your vote on Prinny? The fact that there had been one post (of content) in-between you voting Weasels and unvoting/voting Prinny. Flailing with a vote is bad at the best of times, and this was with sudden death closing in, pal! You seem to really buckle under pressure, and the pressure isn't even on you!
If it weren't useless there, I'd be leaving my vote on you and callin' for a lynch.
If I'm so suspicious, why wouldn't you vote for me & call a lynch? Then again, maybe you should actually refer to some reasons.
With five minutes to the deadline?! Seriously?! I-I'm not even sure this one's worth talkin' about, pal! At that point, I was pressured to even get the post out, let alone change the lynch target!
As it is, I'm gonna have to choose.
##Unvote, ##Vote: Weasel Squad
Definitely much worse. Bad (but seemingly Town) contribution is better than nothin' at all, pal.
I find it interesting that he spends so long talking about Tony, then at the last minute votes Weasels (as he said he would, vote for the AFK who can't fight back etc.), and then doesn't stick around for the next 20 minutes to see Weasels post.
...Wait, are we referrin' to the same post here, pal? "So long talking about Tony"? That was 2 lines in a 12-line post! And the Weasels' return changed nothin' - I was around, pal, but a Vanilla Town claim is as weak as they come, and I'm not changing my vote based on a sudden death "wait, I'm still alive!" to let 'em lurk to victory.
Gilmagesh, I'm not sure where your argument really is, pal. I said Tony was still suspicious, and the only time I even suggested lynching the Prinnies was after the WoT recap. As for Oddjob, I have no idea how you can't see the case - he sat around doing nothing for most of the day, then flailed around at the last minute and essentially decided the final lynch target himself.
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@Oddjob: I can't see how his action connotates scumminess. I'll acknowledge he was WEAK and that I was focusing on the reasoning of your own vote, okay, so what? Dayend+pressure, townies fold, scum fold, I really can't see it as something to make a last-second choice on.
@Gumshoe: The point I was making was not whether or not there was a case on Oddjob, but that you chose to vote for him whilst identifying the other two leading lynches at the time as viable/equal choices, and then managed to go on to vote someone completely different. There's too much switching and waffling around there.
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(http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy156/Detekative/gumshoe-normalb.gif)
Right. Now for my actual thoughts. I can't really say I'm surprised to see the Prinnies flip Town, pal - like I said, they played more like bad civilians than criminals.
My main sights for now are set on Whim and Oddjob. Whim was low-content for what little time she stuck around, and hasn't returned since. The main problem here is the inactivity, though, and not poor content in the posts.
Oddjob, on the other hand... reasons already stated, and poor logic on the Prinny vote. I've never liked seein' votes based on what people haven't done, pal - different playstyles an' all that. You should be voting based on what you can see, not what you can't, and everything I'm seeing from you is bad - you were stalling for time, flailing with your vote, made the decisive vote on the lynch and have used terrible arguments. Think it's no surprise for me to:
##Vote: Oddjob, pal.
---
Jammin' Ninja: I was switching from Guildenstern, so I'd've had to switch regardless. If I could have left my vote on someone suspicious at the time, I would've not bothered switching, but since I had to, I decided I should at least go for the most suspicious suspect in my suspicions.
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Eto... Smithers-san, Gumshoe-san was put higher because I convinced myself during typing that he looks worse than Oddjob-san. While Oddjob-san is quiet, Gumshoe-san's been odd: as I noted, up until my post all his actions had been appraisals of how much content is in someone's post, but not actual content he attacked or held out on.
Toriaizu, my vote goes to the Weasel Buntai again.
##VOTE: Weasel Buntai
I'd actually resigned to just bow out
Why? Why come back and smaaaaaash the Prinnies after all then? Will you actually be around now (coming from me) or what's the big idea? My earlier point of "you call for serious but don't bring it" still stands- and now you add "post resignation at the same time as hammer" to that! What's with this weird play?
-
Long recaps and the like don't provide new information and do very little but waste time. They can also serve as a convenient way of not actually discussing anything, but keeping up appearances nonetheless. I can't fault people for finding this scummy at all, and do so myself.
If your ways of catching scum are fallacious and don't work, then maybe you need to change them. Recap is far more playstyle than scummy. If you want to pat yourself on the back for catching those people when they are scum, then go ahead. But I won't be involved with such inexact nonsense.
Oddjob: I see where you are coming from with the Prinny thing even if I think you are misguided.
Gumshoe: You said:
That post by the penguins is bad news, pal. I don't like a journalist at the best of times, let alone when they're supposed to be investigating. That said, they really don't seem like the criminal type! Just... a really bad witness? Although some things there really raise my hackles, like their entire "case" on the Axems. This is why I hate those journalistic types - lots of talking, but they always seem to miss the key points, and it turns out useless, since you have to re-read the posts to know the context anyway.
and then
'though, if I'd been voting for Tony or the Prinnies before, it wouldn't be worth changing vote. The three of them all look pretty guilty to me, and they need to seriously start picking up the pace if they're gonna get anywhere soon, pal!
So... in the post above, you say that there is a case on the Prinnies but you believe that "they don't seem like the criminal type". The next post states that the Prinnies are included in the people you would keep a vote on if you had a vote on them with absolutely nothing stated about the Prinnies in between these two posts. In other words, you say things that annoy you about the Prinnies, state that you don't think they are suspicious, and then in the next post you say they are suspicious enough to keep a vote on in crunch time.
The Oddjob vote in Day 1 is based off Oddjob's waiting and seeing what is going on:
I don't like these "I'll stand and wait" posts, pal. If you're gonna take some action, take some action as soon as you can! Th-that's just... usually late for me! That's all, pal!
Both the Prinnies and Oddjob have done this here - although, at least the Prinnies actually present some reason for waiting, you know? Oddjob's just kinda standing around for the sake of standing around, and I don't like it one bit, pal.
It seems to me that Oddjob's reason for waiting is pretty obvious; the person who he voted for has not returned and he is satisfied with his vote and he is informing the world of his presence in crunch time.
---
So now for the Day 2 stuff:
Oddjob, on the other hand... reasons already stated, and poor logic on the Prinny vote. I've never liked seein' votes based on what people haven't done, pal - different playstyles an' all that. You should be voting based on what you can see, not what you can't, and everything I'm seeing from you is bad - you were stalling for time, flailing with your vote, made the decisive vote on the lynch and have used terrible arguments. Think it's no surprise for me to:
Can you explain what you mean by "I've never liked seein' votes based on what people haven't done"? Are you referring to Oddjob's harping on the Prinnies for supposedly being deceptive?
Whim, I personally understand the need to bow out. I was tempted to bow out myself before the FIERY SPIRIT OF DISCIPLINE FILLED MY SOUL! And you students, ESPECIALLY FLAY'S STUDENTS WILL NOW SUFFER! Uh, anyway. I think that blaming someone for wanting to quit when they've been gone for a long time (for whatever reason, school/work/life) is pretty ridiculous. Fair enough on the vote though, although I want to hear from the Weasels and such before anything happens too crazy.
-
Not buying the case on Gumshoe, he's done an adequate job of defending himself as far as I'm concerned.
The case on Oddjob...yeah, but eeeeeh. As far as I'm concerned Smithers did everything he did but worse. Gilgamesh, it's true that changing votes is not a sin, but Smithers not even waiting for a Tony defense post before switching doesn't sit well with me at all. It makes him look like he never had any actual intention of seeing Tony get lynched. Oddjob admittedly didn't wait for a Weasel post before switching but he was under time pressure that Smithers wasn't so I'm willing to cut him a little slack there.
Ultimately I agree that Oddjob looks bad, but I don't see how he looks worse than Smithers.
Not sure why suspicions of Whim have floated in and out through the course of the game. Tony mentions them to start the day and I recall seeing them from other people on Day 1 (the Weasels I remember, possibly others but I'd have to re-read to get specific names). She didn't post a lot on Day 1? Who cares? It's Day 1. What little she did post seemed fine to me - votes where they were merited, questions and opinions on other things. The only real thing she's done that makes me raise my brow is her apparent continuation of a Day 1 case when we have flips to work with, and that happened just now.
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#120 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg90053#msg90053) Axem: so what, am I the only person around here who can't time travel? Because it looks like I'm getting a vote for having voted for a confirmed townie. If we reduce this to the actual objection, that I changed my vote from Tony to the Prinny Squad when you think/thought that the latter was acting scummier, then sorry, but while Tony hadn't improved in the slightest at that point the Prinnies had quite frankly gone out of their way to look terrible to me (wasted recap would be bad enough, but it was also horribly biased), so no, I absolutely stand by that vote change.
I'm not going to continue the OMGUS combo here, but leading out day 2 with a blunt one-pronged attack is hardly inspiring.
I was kind of feeling the need to back up Dick a bit, but it's becoming a comedy of errors.
#129 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg90137#msg90137) Dick: "I can't really say I'm surprised to see the Prinnies flip Town, pal - like I said, they played more like bad civilians than criminals."
Does indeed refer back to:
#77 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89686#msg89686) Dick: "That post by the penguins is bad news, pal. [...] That said, they really don't seem like the criminal type! Just... a really bad witness?"
But kind of completely forgets that the following happened in between:
#87 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89766#msg89766) Dick: "'though, if I'd been voting for Tony or the Prinnies before, it wouldn't be worth changing vote. The three of them all look pretty guilty to me..."
The last of which had in fact been completely forgotten by his next post (#106 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89817#msg89817)), where he suddenly reverted to his old vision in order to then vote for the weasels, which is what Gilgamesh has poked at.
There's something rather rampant about this inconsistency given the amount of time to address it and the rather convenient implications of it, in that it looks designed to lead into a later vote swap that then wasn't offered (which was not prominent as of my last look at him as of #89 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89773#msg89773)). Voting on Oddjob's voting record is a bit of a messy endeavour, seeing as he pushed for the weasels before swapping to the Prinnies. In any case, as much as I would vote for him now, L-1 before everyone's shown up sounds like a bad idea.
Have the following for the record, though:
FoS: Dick Gumshoe
Neither the weasels nor Guildenstern have shown their faces yet, which is unhelpful given their growing grade A lurker nature. I'd still like to hear anything from them that isn't about the other (okay, the weasels did finally increase their scope to Whim as well).
Which otherwise for now leaves me with Tony. Little angry puppy Tony. I did not intend to strike a nerve that would be taken personally (although dude, if you're going to be so caustic then you should be willing to take as much as you give), but even on a re-read your assessment of Whim at #44 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89412#msg89412) is about as non-committal as it's possible to get, even
...
Okay, so I need to go now, stopping literally mid-sentence there. This Sunday/Monday is bad for me and I'm off again, not sure when I'll be back hence posting this as it is. In short, no vote down but would be voting Dick, very much need the weasels and Guildenstern around, and still need to actually read/re-read Tony to actually judge that fairly now.
No time for ninjas, but looks like Tony's beat me to much of what I've said about Dick.
-
Whim doesn't do much of anything. She harps on a weak case with the Weasels and that's frankly about it. It is weird that she seems to dwell on... silly actions from early Day 1. I haven't ever found anything that definitively says "This person is scummy!" but her level of contribution to the overall cause seems to be minimal.
EDITTING IN NOW: Smithers: My point was that I, while trying to be as objective as possible on Whim, don't feel that I can be because I find her posts hard to read. I think she acts strange. I cannot quantify this in any way that is convincing to anyone but myself, but I feel like these concerns need to be voiced anyway.
Axem is proposing that Smithers didn't want to lynch me despite the fact I didn't defend myself. Smithers' justification for the Prinny vote was here. Yes, it is possible for someone to emerge as more scummy.
Smithers' List Of Bad Things
-Prinny Squad #66 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89620#msg89620) and #69 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89645#msg89645). I know you were gone for a long time and all, but walls of text are horrible for the spirit, and you didn't even need to write most of it. In fact yeah, having actually now read the whole thing I can only conclude holy hell do I want my time back. Pointless, harmful, full of holes, and easily the worst thing that's happened to the game so far. Let me know if you actually want me to point out specifics, but that will take ages and another wall of text to embark on, and the nods of agreement I'm seeing from other people looking at those posts makes me feel like there's not much of a need.
-Whim #68 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89631#msg89631) inconsistency. Oddjob=Gumshoe in the actual text, and then Gumshoe>>Oddjob in the final ratings. Please re-address this.
-Prinny Squad #78 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89707#msg89707) for what feels like another horribly forced case, this time on Ard, the latter of whom I agree with regarding the potential bandwagon set up.
In fact, I really don't think I can justify doing anything other than:
I'm as suspicious of Tony as I ever was, but it's almost like you're trying to get lynched here, and I'm willing to take the odds of Tony spontaneously combusting or getting better at this point.
To ape Whim, the top of my list looks like: Prinny Squad > Tony > (some mess of Oddjob, the weasels and Guildenstern).
On other quick matters, I'm not finding much to take issue with Dick, and of the quieter amongst us I'm yet to take real offense with either Gilgamesh or Whim. Particularly Gilgamesh.
I'm off now, unless there are immediate questions to follow. I'll see if I can get on before the deadline, but odds are this is my last post of the day.
is his discussion on the matter and I feel like out of all the votes aimed at the Prinnies it has the greatest degree of justification. The big thing that concerns me about Smithers is that he seems to give in strongly to the OMGUS-fu, not that he switched a vote to someone he considers more guilty than the person he is currently voting for.
Ninja'd, editted in some stuff above.
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Day 2
Smithers (1): Axem Rangers
Gumshoe (3): Tony, Oddjob, Gilgamesh
Oddjob (1): Gumshoe
Weasels (1): Whim
No Votes: Guildenstern, Weasels, Smithers
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. 51 Hours remain in Day 2.
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Smithers, flips are the most solid pieces of evidence we have, so of course I'm going to form cases around them. I happen to disagree with your assessment that the Prinny summary was worse than an absent Tony whose case was a bunch of bad painting and general hooey, and the case you jumped onto was a case against a townie. I can only work with what I'm given, and I'm given an innocent flip on the Prinnies, so the best thing to work with is their train as far as I'm concerned.
Whim doesn't do much of anything. She harps on a weak case with the Weasels and that's frankly about it. It is weird that she seems to dwell on... silly actions from early Day 1. I haven't ever found anything that definitively says "This person is scummy!" but her level of contribution to the overall cause seems to be minimal.
I acknowledged that her Weasel vote was weird, but I'm not seeing anything else wrong with her. What few Day 1 posts she had seemed to have a good amount of important questions and opinions. I don't know why you're that hung-up on not posting a lot on Day 1, plenty of specific users do it regardless of their alignment. Why aren't you bothering the Weasels about it when they didn't post a lot on Day 1 either and had far less content than her?
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I am waiting for the Weasels to post before making any judgments. I said everything that needs to be said up to this point about them when I, ya know, voted for them. I feel like they should at least be given some hours to post in Day 2 before levying any more charges on them.
-
Act I-II: Intermission.
Rosencrantz
Yum, overpriced snack food. 2 kroner for a røde pølser? Come on.
Guildenstern
Well, we're here, sorry about the delay. Problems backstage, Ophelia is being a bit crazy again and is refusing to go on-stage. Will look over the Gumshoe case shortly.
Rosencrantz
Micro-thought to tide the audience over: it's brave scum that's willing to claim vanilla come roleclaim time. So the Weasels get a bit of town credit in my eyes for that. But, the Weasels knew that it was unlikely they'd be hammered by others (especially with a dual-vanilla claim), and were in the driver's seat for hammering the Prinnies whenever they liked. So on second thought it wouldn't be that brave a lie to tell, assuming scum-Weasels.
Guildenstern
We'll be right back! Just be sure to re-enter the thread once the lights start flashing.
-
Guildenstern
Additional disclaimer: Re-reading my post, it might come across that I'm trying to imply the Weasels only claimed vanilla after they saw the Prinny claim, since I phrase the decision as "especially with a dual-vanilla claim." Since the Weasels claimed first that's obviously false, just bad phrasing there.
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FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK. FUCKING FORUM.
I just spent the better part of two fucking hours writing out a detailed justification of my cases and the forums ate it. Honestly. Fuck this shit.
Guildenstern and Whim. Guildenstern for never addressing points leveled against him, as well as inconsistancy (ex. Calling Gumshoe's argument against him "reasonable" and mine "incoherant babble" despite being the same thing). Cheered on both trains while commenting on posts without adding anything. Yeah, only Prinnies are cleared, but I'm town too. Take that as you will. His vote on me was made in his first post, "justified" by his second and "completely concrete" by his third. He then dances the rest of the day. Look them over, it's a fun read.
Whim being another who never really addresses points against her except in her one content post which is totally light (to follow). 1 whole post of actual content (here: http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89631#msg89631) She attacks Gumshoe's arguments as "not making sense" when several people back the points he made up. It's a tacit defense of Guildenstern. Completely disappeared after voting Prinnies in this post. May be scum trying to tie herself to Guildenstern if he is not, but he's the one I'm more sure on.
Outside choice of Gilgamesh for pulling off great day 1 lurking and his vote not landing on either train.
##Vote: Guildenstern
I'm out for now.
-
Act II. Scene I.
Guildenstern
On second thought let's just get down to business.
Weasels
Guildenstern and Whim. Guildenstern for never addressing points leveled against him, as well as inconsistancy (ex. Calling Gumshoe's argument against him "reasonable" and mine "incoherant babble" despite being the same thing). Cheered on both trains while commenting on posts without adding anything. Yeah, only Prinnies are cleared, but I'm town too. Take that as you will. His vote on me was made in his first post, "justified" by his second and "completely concrete" by his third. He then dances the rest of the day. Look them over, it's a fun read.
Guildenstern
It is a fun read. "the points levelled against him" - look, the sole legitimate point "levelled against me" was that I'd only seriously interacted with the case on you. I "responded" to that by getting my opinions on other cases on the record ( http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89477#msg89477 ). That was Gumshoe's complaint, which was on point. Your point was:
Weasels of the PAST
At least Ard be talkin about other people. Guildenstoin just be name dropping people without really saying anything so far. He's trying to lay all low like while hidin' behind his fancy talk.
Guildenstern
Name-dropping? Fancy talk? This is either an attack on posting style or just a "I don't understand you!" post, when I feel my reasoning behind voting you at the time was pretty obvious (same as everyone else, "srs business time but let's make another joke vote!"). And the "lay low" comment was kind of silly, it was early Day 1 and I'd posted an averageish amount of times by then. Nah, I'm still biting my thumb at that attack of yours.
Rosencrantz
Also, as a point of order, we didn't "cheer both trains." We said we'd be satisfied with a Prinny lynch, because we felt the Prinnies looked worse than Tony (the #3 lynch target) or Guildenstern (#4 lynch target). I think we can all agree that Mr. Guildenstern was pushing for your collective lynch over the Prinnies.
----
Meanwhile...
Guildenstern
Tentatively, I agree with the Axem Rangers on this one. Gumshoe does have the one suspicious statement where he calls the Prinnies guilty despite elsewhere standing by "they're a forgetful witness!" (which I agreed with him about), and that should be held against him, but... huh. I think Gumshoe's scattershot approach might be just his style. I'd like to think that we can do better than that for who we vote against.
Rosencrantz
We'll post this message to the King for now, expect another one. Need to re-read Day 1, I want to attempt to get more of a read on Gilgamesh before voting.
-
Guildenstern
Right. Well, I can't say I agree with anything the Weasels have been saying, but I am getting an aggrieved townie vibe. Vibes are not enough to allay my continuing suspicions but let's look at the other options.
I just reread the thread and Gilgamesh is still a mystery. He's made some points I agree with... but mostly just hasn't made his presence felt much. Short posts are fine, and they do have content, just... hmph. Wasn't around for the Prinny / Weasel showdown and still had a vote on Tony, not sure if I can read anything from that. 3 question marks out of 3.
Whim's been quiet but reasonable as far as I'm concerned; she probably has the highest ratio of "Yeah, I agree with that" of anyone in the game. Obviously possible she's scum leading me, at least, up a blind alley, but meh.
Oddjob... this might be too early, but a vague possibility would be an Oddjob / Weasel team to explain Oddjob's quick switch of votes. Vote for the Weasels to get "I voted against scum!" credit early, back off when the Weasel train becomes serious. On the other hand, while I disagree with it, his stated reason for switching the vote is plausibly townie (prinny's lack of mentioning self-defense).
Gumshoe I already stated that I found his defense modestly compelling.
So, among these options, I'm going to have to go with...
##Vote: Gilgamesh
My apologies if you were just not around much, but I'm getting the "stay under the radar while making just enough cutting comments to not be noticably lurking" feel.
Rosencrantz
Exactly what a certain other person I know has been accused of, now that I think about it.
Guildenstern
Quiet, you.
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@Tony: Uhhhhh if you can give me a scumhunting method that always works 100%, please do? I don't buy it as something purely indicative of playstyle, and if it is your style then you should stop doing it as, like I said, it's an easy way to looking like you're talking without doing so.
Whim's reason for voting Weasels is lackluster; isn't there a simple answer for why he voted the Prinnies, vis-a-vis 'vote or die'?
Guildenstern positing an Oddjob/Weasel team but dismissing it because he thought Oddjob's reason for changing to Prinnies is plausible seems pretty bizzare to me. I can see having a better case than Oddjob, buuuut when he votes for me for the reason he gave (which doesn't even seem to involve actual perceived scumminess...)
Smithers raised some decent points on how Gumshoe was flip-flopping around on his supposed opinion of the Prinnies. I'm taking from this that he never actually had solid opinions on anyone and was just tossing words out there. Don't think a townie would mess up like that. Furthemore-
Jammin' Ninja: I was switching from Guildenstern, so I'd've had to switch regardless. If I could have left my vote on someone suspicious at the time, I would've not bothered switching, but since I had to, I decided I should at least go for the most suspicious suspect in my suspicions.
And yeah, then you eventually switched to Weasels, who wasn't on your original list. I don't get how your opinions could've changed so much by the end of the day.
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(http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy156/Detekative/gumshoe-manb.gif)
On this contradiction that everyone keeps mentioning, all I can say is that I phrased it badly - 'guilty' was the wrong word. I would've happily kept my vote on the Prinnies at the time - nobody seemed particularly suspicious, pal, but the Prinnies had played badly. As it got later in the day and the Weasels still hadn't returned, I decided, as I'd said, that no contribution was worse than a seemingly bad Town contribution.
As it is now, I'm liking the Weasels even less - their little scuffle with Guilstendern reflects badly on them to me. I'd put them in at 3rd for me.
2nd, Whim. As I and others have said, low contribution, a lot of lurking, but generally good points when they're there. Difficult to read, but that little content is difficult to see as anything but intentional lurking.
Naturally, Oddjob is still the most suspicious to me, pal. Hasn't returned since my last post, so nothing's changed.
As for Axem's case on Smithers, I'll look through the documents on that sometime soon, pal. I'm a little pressed for time at the moment.
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I think it's time for a votecount!
Day 2
Smithers (1): Axem Rangers
Gumshoe (3): Tony, Oddjob, Gilgamesh
Oddjob (1): Gumshoe
Weasels (1): Whim
Guildenstern (1): Weasels
Gilgamesh (1): Guildenstern
No Votes: Smithers
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. There are 31 hours left in Day 2.
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I'm siding with Guildenstern on his little spat with the Weasels. The Weasel attack smacks of OMGUS and has already been handily defended. We also all know my thoughts on Whim and the suspices of her already. I don't see why Post 41 wouldn't also be considered contribution, for example.
I could also buy into a Gilgamesh train, should no one join me on Smithers. He's been the I-forgot-he-was-playing player this game and I'm naturally suspicious of those types.
Right now I'd feel comfortable voting for Gilgamesh, Oddjob, the Weasels or I suppose Tony as well given the nature of my case against Smithers. Still would not feel comfortable joining the Gumshoe train.
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Double post because I realize that listing so many people as vote candidates could easily be taken the wrong way. I'm not saying "WE NEED TO LOP OFF ALL THESE HEADS". Those are assessments of who, right now, I would feel comfortable voting for at the deadline. Smithers is the only one I actively want to see dead.
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#136 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg90209#msg90209) Axem: I'm not sure I can do much more than sit here and disagree with your 'Tony > Prinnies' position. I voted for Tony (at #51 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89450#msg89450)) primarily on the grounds of spectator reporting with a side of 'bad case pushed hard' and aggression, and the Prinnies came along with the biggest mound of spectator reporting for all to see, full of bias and forced cases, so unless I wanted to make a big deal out of Tony's aggression I can't see why I wouldn't chase bigger game.
I rather suspect this is going nowhere, so that's the last you should hear from me about it. What I do find odd here is your own lack of a response to Tony. After being on him for so long and hard yesterday, not a peep about him other than as context for voting for me? Sure it's day two and extra information and all, but dropping a case entirely without mention (even if it's just to make amends with his revival)? Funny how this sounds like what you're accusing me of but worse.
Ninja: oh, you're around. Well then, I have more to say, but let's get this out first while you're around to respond to it.
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And jesus are you heavily set on this given the one trick wonder behind the vote.
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The Day 1 Tony case was a Day 1 case and has been dropped accordingly. He defended against it decently enough anyway.
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Can you explain what you mean by "I've never liked seein' votes based on what people haven't done"? Are you referring to Oddjob's harping on the Prinnies for supposedly being deceptive?
Somehow missed this one earlier. Sorry, pal! Two things in this case have met this condition, pal! Firstly, I called out the Axems on it here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89392#msg89392) with their "You should have spoken about Gilgamesh!" That's been mostly written off as an early Day 1 thing, though, combined with good cases from them otherwise (despite what's said below). As you've said, the other was Oddjob's "You should have said you were saving yourself!" ...Why? If it's that obvious, does it really need saying? You're better off judgin' by who's been saying what - if you're gonna create cases based around what people have not mentioned, make sure it's people they haven't mentioned, pal!
Also, looked through Smithers' posts. I'm seein' nothing that really stands out as suspicious, pal, and I definitely think there are much better cases myself. Nothing particularly pro-Town, but nothing too offensive. Things still stand at Oddjob > Whim > Weasels for me, so my vote's staying where it is.
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(http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy156/Detekative/gumshoe-crasha.gif)
Mandatory image, since I forgot it in the last post. Must have... hit my head or something, I guess!
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@Tony: Uhhhhh if you can give me a scumhunting method that always works 100%, please do? I don't buy it as something purely indicative of playstyle, and if it is your style then you should stop doing it as, like I said, it's an easy way to looking like you're talking without doing so.
No. Also, I don't know a scumhunting method that works, but I know one that doesn't.
The more I read this post the more I think you are trying to get under my skin and this makes me highly suspicious of you. You have been pretty volatile all game. (I have only tried to be because of Tony!) That + sliding under the radar as Guildy pointed out = eehhhh.
Axem Red vs. Smithers: I really think Axem Red is overreacting pretty mightily to this entire thing. It seems that his insistence on the innocence of Gumshoe/Whim officially makes his reading of people the opposite of mine. I am also biased since the crux of his case revolves in me and Smithers being scumbuddies (from what I am interpreting) and yeah that does not sit well with me.
I am mostly just posting this to let everyone know I'm still alive, I will be a little less cursory once I have some free time later in the day. I feel like Gumshoe has defended himself well enough even though he really seemed to like flipping everywhere with his votes and said some pretty weird stuff with the spreading of suspicion. Don't know precisely what to think now, but I feel like it's good enough to:
##UNVOTE: Gumshoe
##VOTE: Gilgamesh
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Okay, I'm really not liking what I'm hearing here. Single-mindedness is nice and all, but not to the length of focussing on precisely one rather dubious point. I can't quite call it tunnelling when you're talking about other people, but your priorities both in raising this one issue far above all else and in basically wilfully disregarding previous threads irks me immensely, especially given the short-sightedness is based off what is effectively a matter of opinion.
##Vote: Axem Rangers
While I'm at it, you say now (#150 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg90317#msg90317)) that you've dropped your position against Tony, yet this is practically immediately after saying that you'd still be open to his lynch due to your position on me (#146 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg90313#msg90313)). This screen doesn't help either. Nor your stance of pointedly leaving a whole 5/8 avenues open for vote swapping later.
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I dropped my Day 1 case against Tony. The potential link to you is another thing entirely.
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So your position is "I don't have any problems with Tony per se, but would be willing to vote for him on the basis that maybe, just maybe he's scumbuddies with scumSmithers and the latter is covering for him" or thereabouts? That's seriously weak.
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#134 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg90190#msg90190) Tony: re: OMGUS: you shouldn't be taking that seriously. I'm not actually applying OMGUS or using it as a factor in voting, what with it being wrong and all, I've just been finding it amusing that now three of my votes in a row were at least partially sparked by posts in which I was voted for. The actual bases behind them are sound, which is what should be addressed if anything.
And right, actually getting back to your posts. Still on #97 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89799#msg89799). I don't want to push the reporter thing too much if it is personal and sours your game here, but play style or otherwise it's harmful when dominating, which I mention far less now for your own style, but principally for you giving the Prinnies carte blanche based on that when what they'd actually written was terrible. But with them dead and town and all that sounds more like post-game discussion. Oh, and for attacking Gilgamesh on the grounds of him taking similar issue later on.
...and honestly, as much as I went in expecting to find a fight and a wall of text to write, that's about all I've got. The reporter style has continued into day two, but it's uncommon enough and coupled with sufficient direction that I won't take issue with it.
Elsewhere, I still read Gilgamesh as the most agreeable of the quieter members. Perhaps this is somewhat due to having opinions that are closest to my own, but the presence he has had reads solidly.
Oddjob and Whim have both now been gone for approaching 36 hours, by which I mean practically all of the day's discussion. Add in the weasels' lost post and it still feels like we're not playing with everyone. I want to be more concerned about all of the lurking, but it's just never been a priority yet.
Guildenstern tops the little group there for me, with new material including a gloriously meaningless post (#138 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg90219#msg90219) - "hey, maybe this, oh, except maybe not"), a rather tepid offering on Gilgamesh (#142 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg90236#msg90236)), and everything related to the Oddjob/weasels theory (#142 again - more "hey, maybe this, oh, except maybe not" on top of just not making sense anyway). I do appreciate the expansion from just the weasels, though, even if it seems to be lurker-centric.
Which leaves me with Dick, who I effectively unvoted to go for Axem. I'm still uncomfortable with the guy, but the resolution on the contradiction was fairer than I had expected to find it, and though it doesn't sit well with me, the day end manoeuvres are very wurgly and I'd rate the actual stances held at about the same position as Guildenstern, it's not as bad as the insanity that has overcome the Axems.
...
Well that took altogether far too long, so now I'm off again. I'm not sure how we should go about actually doing anything about it, but our collective votes are hilariously spread out at this point (I know, my vote didn't help).
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So your position is "I don't have any problems with Tony per se, but would be willing to vote for him on the basis that maybe, just maybe he's scumbuddies with scumSmithers and the latter is covering for him" or thereabouts? That's seriously weak.
It admittedly is, which is why I listed him last (for the record, vote preference order would be Smithers > Gilgamesh > Weasels > Oddjob >>> Tony), but it is enough to push him ahead of Guildenstern, Gumshoe and Whim. The first two I don't see any reason to vote for and Whim's been getting a pretty bum rap all game from various sources to the point where I believe there's some scum intent behind it, even with the eyebrow-raising Weasel vote and the subsequent vanishing.
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Actually, in thinking about it, switch Gilgamesh and the Weasels. The one Weasel post today was very unimpressive and Gilgamesh has at least been trying.
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(http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy156/Detekative/y-gumshoe-thinkinga.gif)
Looking over the cases people have been putting forward, Smithers presents a decent bit of evidence against Guildenstern - it's something I'd casually skipped over when reading the posts myself, but it looks pretty damning when pointed out like that. All that does in my eyes, though, is pushes him ahead of Smithers and the Axems in my suspicions, and those are pretty much at the bottom of my list, you know?
I'm still not changing my vote until Oddjob defends himself, though. (Seriously, what is it with people disappearing when they're accused in this game? Not saying it's never for a good reason, just... dammit, pal!) I just seriously can't see where the logic lies in his voting/reasoning, and I'm still surprised that nobody seems to think his 5-minute change from Weasels to Prinnies on the grounds of "They didn't say they were saving themselves!" is not suspicious at all.
Would like to know how long we have to a modkill, though. That's gotta be close, r-right, sir?
Post is mostly "Hey, I'm here, but nothing new to add right now."
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Sorry for afk-ness. Sleep + work = bad hours. I'll have something this afternoon.
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Find our defenders.
Look over their cases, hard.
Though teach is cool, dood.
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@Tony/Guildenstern: I'm not actually sensing a case from either of these people. I don't really know what to make of votes on me for so-called nonpresence in the face of so many other similar offenders, and I should be forgiven for rolling my eyes when Tony accuses me of trying to rile people up. The fact that you pointed out your own hypocrisy doesn't, you know, make it go away.
That said, Guild looks worse than Tony at the moment (the latter has been pretty aggressive with points I agreed a lot on all day and is giving me some pretty strong townie vibes, day one stuff is a nonevent by now.) It doesn't seem like the former has really done any investigating on his own, and he dismisses Oddjob's switch at the end as 'bad but okay, I guess', to paraphrase. It's kinda the opposite of how he saw my posts, which were apparently solid but somehow also bad.
The more I think, the more I'm inclined to switch to him, since I'm starting to feel as though I'm harping on a choice of words too much wrt to Gumshoe (and after going through it again, I've concluded that scum!gumshoe wouldn't have needed to care about voting out one of the prinnies or weasels unless he's buddies with one of them (and it's highly unlikely he's buddies with weasels given how that played out), so his actions are looking a bit more legitimate in my eyes.)
So I will. ##Unvote, ##Vote: Guildenstern.
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Act II. Scene II.
Rosencrantz
Sure is quiet here.
Guildenstern
As for Gilgamesh's comments, I'll note that I pushed the heat on the Weasels (still unclear as to how correct that was, but that was a Day 1 case) and I just haven't been around much on Day 2 due to out-of-game issues (similar to Whim and the Weasels... where are they?). I did, however, push some heat onto you, which I will freely admit was not backed up by much. You haven't exactly given us tons to work with, though, so I think we can share the blame on that.
To your credit, I will repeat again that no, you aren't saying anything *obviously* stupid or trying to rum some obvious scum ploy (in response to "my posts are somehow bad"). Scum, however, are smart too, and this kind of occasional vigorous sniping is pretty plausibly scum to me.
Also...
Smithers
everything related to the Oddjob/weasels theory (#142 again - more "hey, maybe this, oh, except maybe not" on top of just not making sense anyway
Guildenstern
What doesn't make sense about it? If Oddjob / Weasels were the scumteam, I think semi-blatant ploys like this may be more common on Day 1 considering how bad a Day 1 scum lynch would be. I said "maybe not" because declaring I'd cracked the case and Oddjob / Weasels were obviously both scum would be Stupid. Oddjob's Day 2 posts felt fairly townie to me (even if I disagreed with the Gumshoe case) so this is more a thought I had during Night 1 while waiting about backstage with just the flip results.
Rosencrantz
Not much more to say at the moment. In general we favor Tony and Axem's comments earlier on Day 2, no surprises there.
Guildenstern
I have a nasty feeling that this post is going to be held up as evidence of weak blather, but this is because I don't feel there are any slam-dunk cases to be made. The main "But this proves he's scum!" case, Gumshoe, I feel is just as likely to be an innocent slip-up overmagnified, so falling back on the "lurking suspiciously" case.
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Ok back, caught up, commenting.
Not impressed with Gumshoe's "arguments". A bunch of opinions does not a case make. Where's your evidence? (as they would say in the game).
I don't have much to add on that, other than pointing again to his dodgy arguments(opinions); there's nothing really to 'defend myself' from, as I can't defend from an opinion.
Axem red.. railroading is disturbing, but not outright scummy. I must admit, if he's right about Smithers then Smithers plays scum quite well. Axem's aggressiveness is theoretically neutral, but I like his style if nothing else.
Guildenstern's allegation of an Oddjob/Weasel scumteam is baffling, bizzare and bloated. I like alliteration. I don't like his accusation, but it seems he doesn't either, wtf. Accusing me of being scummy for voting Weasels for scumcredit then jumping off the train when it got dangerous is a contradiction. Scum would do one or the other, not both. But whatever, it seems you're not even serious (so why mention it at all?)
Whim has been gone longer than me yes; I had legitimate reasons, I don't see why she might not also.
Yes, my posts are short - but they are concise! This is the best way to roleplay Oddjob. Other than emoting everything.
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LOL SUP VOTECOUNT
Day 2
Smithers (1): Axem Rangers
Gumshoe (1): Tony, Oddjob, Gilgamesh
Oddjob (1): Gumshoe
Weasels (1): Whim
Guildenstern (2): Weasels, Gilgamesh
Gilgamesh (2): Guildenstern, Tony
Axem Rangers (1): Smithers
No Votes: Nobody!
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. There are like 12ish hours left in Day 2.
LOL whim u want 2 b mascot for the SOS-dan after this? make out w/Mikuru, itd be hot!!
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Not impressed with Gumshoe's "arguments". A bunch of opinions does not a case make. Where's your evidence? (as they would say in the game).
I don't have much to add on that, other than pointing again to his dodgy arguments(opinions); there's nothing really to 'defend myself' from, as I can't defend from an opinion.
(http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy156/Detekative/y-gumshoe-disappointedb.gif)
...What the hell, pal? The fact that you claimed I had posted no arguments? The fact that you posted... nothing of content at the time? The 5-minute switch from Tony to Weasels to Prinnies? Your arguments have been weak, narrow-minded (up until that last one) and I've seen nothing in your actions that looks even remotely Town - you've been neutral at best, and even that's rare.
Guildenstern's allegation of an Oddjob/Weasel scumteam is baffling, bizzare and bloated. I like alliteration. I don't like his accusation, but it seems he doesn't either, wtf. Accusing me of being scummy for voting Weasels for scumcredit then jumping off the train when it got dangerous is a contradiction. Scum would do one or the other, not both. But whatever, it seems you're not even serious (so why mention it at all?)
While I agree on the idea of the scumteam being a stupid theory (and, apparently, so does Guild - agree with you on the not needing to mention it too!), this argument stinks like the Butz, pal. Why would scum do one or the other? Why are you even looking at that... WIFOM, pal? Yeah, WIFOM.
Also don't agree on your Axem assessment - railroading is scummy, even if only slightly. The fact that you're reading it as neutral seems to reflect solely on post-style, but you seem to be avoiding actually admittin' that, pal.
Guild's last post reads pretty well to me, especially at a time when there was nothing else really goin' on. Still, plan to read over his posts again to see if I can get a read - he's been mostly neutral to me since about halfway through Day 1, and has garnered a fair bit of attention, so definitely worth a re-read. (I'll be doing that in about 5-8 hours. Not sure when I'll be finished on this job, I'm afraid, pal.)
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If a scum decides to bus for cred, then they do so.
If they hop off a sinking ship to avoid a lynch, then they've undone any cred, and gained suspicion. It is not a likely play.
It's game meta that is simple and boring. I can't understand why you're basing your case on things like this.
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I don't really get what the Axems are doing, nor why it's just getting passed up by everyone else.
They've come into this day and used a single point to justify completely dropping all other lines of investigation. Not only have they stubbornly stuck to what is blatantly a matter of opinion, they haven't tried to find any other reason with which to vote me for, nor actually tried to convince anyone of this position. Not only that, but they've already set up a huge escape route to vote for practically anyone else (#146 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg90313#msg90313)), but with the added fun that the only people they're not open to lynching (Guildenstern, Gumshoe and Whim, reconfirmed at #158 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg90351#msg90351)) are ones rather likely to be trains, and even more fun bonus points for just kind of sitting there and either ignoring my points against them or actively agreeing with them, and for the deliciously cold irony that the point they have against me is for not pressing my point hard or long enough when this is what they're doing and set themselves up to do, but far worse. Biggest points of all go to rating Tony as lynchable solely by association.
This is baleful scum-hunting, and really rather actively scummy. Please reflect on this, guys.
My first bet at this point would be on an Axem/Guildenstern scum team (and man do I hope that we're only looking for two) given their interaction and the latter's own bad play, but I am as yet very much unwilling to change votes when the Axem's are flaunting their guilt so much, and it's hardly the only scum team I can see with Axem in.
Now that the Prinnies have had their say I'm going to have a quick check back to decode their message, as much as the general sense is clear.
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#165 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg90439#msg90439) Oddjob: "Axem's aggressiveness is theoretically neutral, but I like his style if nothing else."
You see, that's the thing, he's not even being that aggressive. By far his listed top priority and all, sure, but he's put no effort into trying to make an actual case or convince anyone else. He's just sitting there and basically now waiting for his moment to go 'oh, it can't be helped, time to swap to this train that I don't like so much'. I don't like the ongoing theme of this game of giving carte blanche to bad and scummy actions and errors by labelling them as play style.
Aggression may be fine, but it's not the word for what's going on here.
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Right, the penguins (#162 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg90394#msg90394)). I'm actually a little lost, as I've no clue who they mean by 'defenders' (plural), given that four of those still alive voted for them, two of the others (Gilgamesh and Guildenstern) also supported the lynch, Axem was less visibly so but certainly was anti- rather than pro-Prinnies, and Tony's ruled out by the last line instead. This leaves just Dick.
So sure, it seems pretty clear that the penguins don't like Dick and want us to read his cases harder (presumably to see a lack of substance?), but that alone doesn't make the repeated use of plurals make sense, nor why if it was just Dick why they couldn't have said that rather than being quite so cryptic about it.
So thanks, but if I'm looking into this any further it'll involve reading everything to work out who else you're referring to, so it's going to have to wait.
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Oh no point-by-point debate.
They've come into this day and used a single point to justify completely dropping all other lines of investigation.
I'm not even sure what this means. It just looks like some sensationalist headline used to paint me as bad. Can someone explain it?
Not only have they stubbornly stuck to what is blatantly a matter of opinion, they haven't tried to find any other reason with which to vote me for, nor actually tried to convince anyone of this position.
I've already said why I'm voting for you. My case is out there for people to see and make their own judgments on. I don't like repeating myself and I don't like trying to sell my cases because everyone else in the game is theoretically smart enough to see whatever merits it has themselves. The only arguing I would do to convince people to switch to you is an argument about how flips are the most solid pieces of evidence we have and thus should be top priority when founding a case on someone but that's a post-game discussion (and it's self-evident anyway). If you really want it that badly, though, I can give it to you again.
You are scummy for changing your vote from someone despite them not giving you reason to onto a townie. The only times changing a vote like that is remotely excusable are early Day 1, and the end of the day when time is very short, or in the face of an outside cop claim or other bizarre role circumstances. If we gave everyone a free pass to change their mind willy-nilly scum would be impossible to find.
And yes, the jump off Tony does suggest Smithers/Tony, and the Day 1 spat between the two of you could conceivably have been a distancing tactic. I'm not saying it's 100% you two but it looks very possible to me.
Not only that, but they've already set up a huge escape route to vote for practically anyone else (#146 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg90313#msg90313)),
He's just sitting there and basically now waiting for his moment to go 'oh, it can't be helped, time to swap to this train that I don't like so much'.
Putting these together since they're essentially the same thing, and the second one is pretty hilarious. You say this like I would not have switched off you anyway if still no one had joined me while time was running down, and you say it like it's a bad thing. I would say this is badpainting but I'm biased so I'll let others make the call there.
but with the added fun that the only people they're not open to lynching (Guildenstern, Gumshoe and Whim, reconfirmed at #158 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg90351#msg90351)) are ones rather likely to be trains
I don't see how their train potential is relevant at all to my assessments of them, and I don't see how Gilgamesh and the Weasels are not equally valid potential trains.
and even more fun bonus points for just kind of sitting there and either ignoring my points against them or actively agreeing with them
Near as I could tell, your vote for me was OMGUS, and the only real defense I have for that is pointing out it's OMGUS, but, again, biased, letting others make the call. If it's not OMGUS, then what exactly should I be defending against here? Raising your issue above all others? Sure, I think it's the scummiest thing on the board, don't see why holding onto it is bad. Disregarding previous...threads? Threads like topics or threads like Day 1 discussion? I would like to think I'm not ignoring discussion of other users given I have weighed in with opinions on many other users (in fact, I've said a little bit about everyone!) so I dunno what you're going for here.
and for the deliciously cold irony that the point they have against me is for not pressing my point hard or long enough when this is what they're doing and set themselves up to do, but far worse.
Uh no that's not why my vote's on your but thanks for the misrep again!
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(http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy156/Detekative/y-gumshoe-sideb.gif)
It's game meta that is simple and boring. I can't understand why you're basing your case on things like this.
*Gumshoe slams his head against the computer table repeatedly*
Seriously, pal?! I repeat: READ THE TOPIC. (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg90135#msg90135) This started with the Guildenstern "Oddjob/Weasels" theory, which I agreed was stupid. I then pointed out that what you said on the matter was pure WIFOM. (And if you doubt that, you need help, pal. To prove it, how do we know you're not scum and just knew you could use that argument to escape? We don't, it's WIFOM, end of.)
As for my case, it is based on nothing of this, although you using WIFOM is undoubtedly bad. My case has been presented several times and you've insisted on ruling it off as opinions, before electing to excuse the Axems' behaviour due to liking their playstyle. ARGH.
--
Hunh. Forgot to post this before goin' for some instant noodles. Whoops. In that time, Jammin' Axem Ninja swoops in with an attack on the Smithers Samurai! I'm... really not seeing the case on Smithers, pal, and constantly pushing that alongside questionable logic isn't doing your reputation any favours. For said logic, the main one that stands out: Not only that, but they've already set up a huge escape route to vote for practically anyone else (#146 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg90313#msg90313)),
Putting these together since they're essentially the same thing, and the second one is pretty hilarious. You say this like I would not have switched off you anyway if still no one had joined me while time was running down, and you say it like it's a bad thing. I would say this is badpainting but I'm biased so I'll let others make the call there.
The problem isn't with you changing votes, pal. It's the fact that you suggest almost anyone as a viable target, meaning you can switch to whichever train you need to. Thought that was pretty obvious, and the constant response of scumpainting against some decent arguments is making you seem more scummy to me, pal.
Moving up in suspicions, but there are still more than enough other cases ahead at the moment. Oddjob/Whim/Weasels still stay ahead in my eyes, and Oddjob's recent actions are questionable at best, and scummy at worst.
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Except I can't switch to "whichever train I need to", as not only have I ruled out three people I could have voted for had I kept my mouth shut, but I've also provided a preference order, and if I were to break that for any reason I'd have to do some fancy explaining as to why.
Is saying "I'd vote for these people and not for these people" really worse than saying nothing, where I could conceivably come out of the blue and vote for literally anyone I "need" to? If yes I'd like an explanation as to why.
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(http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy156/Detekative/gumshoe-headscratch.gif)
Ah, sorry about that, pal. We missed that evidence on our latest sweep of the court record.
As for saying who you'd vote, I'd still see it as bad to list that many, since you could easily switch to a number of targets - just because it's better than not posting anything, it doesn't make it good, since posting less people would be even better.
Buuut all that's negated by the order of preference - as long as we're told if that changes.
Hm.. It's just an idea, pal, purely meta for now, but I'll say it anyways, since there's nothing else happening... There are two major conflicts going on right now, it seems - Smithers/Axems and Oddjob/moi. It seems likely to me that at least one of these four is Mafia, since the chances of two major town/town struggles is quite low. Obviously, I'm thinkin' Oddjob is scum - hence the vote - and it wouldn't surprise me for one of Smithers/Axems to be as well.
Means nothing until we get a flip on at least one of these four, even if I do decide to follow meta logic, pal, but just thought I'd put the, uhh, thought out there.
If anyone argues I'm using meta - even when I say I'm not judging on this now - and votes me based on this, I'm going to explode, pal. I think Oddjob's entire post record shows exactly why.
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Oh no point-by-point debate.
They've come into this day and used a single point to justify completely dropping all other lines of investigation.
I'm not even sure what this means. It just looks like some sensationalist headline used to paint me as bad. Can someone explain it?
Let's see..
Whoa, it's Night 1 and Day 2 at the same time!
I've decided Antonimario isn't worth attacking right now - his defense was satisfactory, and Day 1 scout attacks aren't usually continuing anyway. Don't have enough power behind 'em.
You retreating from Tony, who hadn't raised a hand in defense, and refocusing on the penguins, who we now see weren't guilty of anything, is easily the scummiest thing I can see!
Only about me and Smithers, which simultaneously says that I defended myself adequately and implicitly condemns me.
Not buying the case on Gumshoe, he's done an adequate job of defending himself as far as I'm concerned.
The case on Oddjob...yeah, but eeeeeh. As far as I'm concerned Smithers did everything he did but worse. Gilgamesh, it's true that changing votes is not a sin, but Smithers not even waiting for a Tony defense post before switching doesn't sit well with me at all. It makes him look like he never had any actual intention of seeing Tony get lynched. Oddjob admittedly didn't wait for a Weasel post before switching but he was under time pressure that Smithers wasn't so I'm willing to cut him a little slack there.
Ultimately I agree that Oddjob looks bad, but I don't see how he looks worse than Smithers.
Your so-called 'case' against Oddjob is "Yeah, but ehhhhhh" and ends with you bashing Smithers.
Smithers, flips are the most solid pieces of evidence we have, so of course I'm going to form cases around them. I happen to disagree with your assessment that the Prinny summary was worse than an absent Tony whose case was a bunch of bad painting and general hooey, and the case you jumped onto was a case against a townie. I can only work with what I'm given, and I'm given an innocent flip on the Prinnies, so the best thing to work with is their train as far as I'm concerned.
Defense of Whim is the second half the post, not bothering to post it because I don't want to clutter the topic anymore than necessary. Other than that, an admission that there is a fundamental disagreement on what constitutes a vote switching followed by a saying that because the Prinnies are innocent that Smithers changing a vote to them makes him scummy.
I'm siding with Guildenstern on his little spat with the Weasels. The Weasel attack smacks of OMGUS and has already been handily defended. We also all know my thoughts on Whim and the suspices of her already. I don't see why Post 41 wouldn't also be considered contribution, for example.
I could also buy into a Gilgamesh train, should no one join me on Smithers. He's been the I-forgot-he-was-playing player this game and I'm naturally suspicious of those types.
Right now I'd feel comfortable voting for Gilgamesh, Oddjob, the Weasels or I suppose Tony as well given the nature of my case against Smithers. Still would not feel comfortable joining the Gumshoe train.
More defense of Whim, absolutely weak arguments for Weasels/Gilgamesh that barely even register as arguments, um, wow.
So your position is "I don't have any problems with Tony per se, but would be willing to vote for him on the basis that maybe, just maybe he's scumbuddies with scumSmithers and the latter is covering for him" or thereabouts? That's seriously weak.
It admittedly is, which is why I listed him last (for the record, vote preference order would be Smithers > Gilgamesh > Weasels > Oddjob >>> Tony), but it is enough to push him ahead of Guildenstern, Gumshoe and Whim. The first two I don't see any reason to vote for and Whim's been getting a pretty bum rap all game from various sources to the point where I believe there's some scum intent behind it, even with the eyebrow-raising Weasel vote and the subsequent vanishing.
Actually if the ENTIRE BASIS OF YOUR ARGUMENT AGAINST A PERSON is a sprawling conspiracy theory that involves taking your vote off someone you never wanted to lynch because the two are actually in cahoots, I would think that that second person should be pretty high on your radar. Because there is nothing that makes Axem's vote make any sense at all without the context of evil intent.
Actually, in thinking about it, switch Gilgamesh and the Weasels. The one Weasel post today was very unimpressive and Gilgamesh has at least been trying.
The last bit of non-Smithers commentary on others that exists.
Except I can't switch to "whichever train I need to", as not only have I ruled out three people I could have voted for had I kept my mouth shut, but I've also provided a preference order, and if I were to break that for any reason I'd have to do some fancy explaining as to why.
Is saying "I'd vote for these people and not for these people" really worse than saying nothing, where I could conceivably come out of the blue and vote for literally anyone I "need" to? If yes I'd like an explanation as to why.
If you didn't say anything positive about a single player then well it would be both stupid and scummy. My problem is that "I forgot this player is in the game" and "Yeah, but ehh, this person is less bad than SMITHERS!" are really
really
really weak arguments. If you suspect that many people, then you should bloody well justify it. And no, your justification for voting for me being SMITHERS' BFF is not a good enough argument for a fucking conspiracy theory. "No, I don't suspect you for anything you did, I just think you're scum anyway because Smithers changed his vote away from you."
In other words you are fixated on Smithers based on a disagreement on what constitutes a vote change. Your main arguments on what's going on outside of Smithers consist of condemning people who vote for Whim by arguing 'scummy intent' lurks behind arguing against her and that you don't understand why anyone would bash someone who has not done a single thing wrong (such as never be around and make weak, cursory arguments and drive a train on A TOWNIE!!!!!!! and voting for Weasel based off uhhh saving himself!). You argue that your reason for distrusting Gilgamesh is lack of content (or as you put it "player-I-forgot-was-in-the-game") in the game when the person you so vehemently defend has one post the entire day that is based on voting a player off Day 1 silliness + voting to save himself.
I have tried not to get involved in this clusterfuck due to the fact that I am biased and the fact that Axem's argument is just so... bad. But it seems that the commentary has taken the day, and I feel the need to make my own beefs with Axem's logic clear.
---
Gilgamesh... is right about Guildenstern. I'm not sure why Guildy even bothered bringing up the scumteam Oddjob/Weasels thing. Keeping on the train as long as Oddjob did with the intention of jumping off is super-risky. I don't think Oddjob is especially scummy; I feel like he is an opportunistic townie trying to dig up a case from anything (I know how this feels!). One beef I do have with him is that he seems to be sparse on the commentary on other townies in the same way that Axem Red is. I am having trouble discerning from either if I think they are scummy or just over-pursuing their respective cases.
I have very little to say about Gilgamesh because his posts are very sparse and a lot of what I'd like to say to him is outside the game or isn't especially productive to finding scum so I am not going to partake in it. I don't think the case aside from light-in-content is too great and I will no longer be part of it.
##UNVOTE: Gilgamesh
Gumshoe has been better as of late, I feel like he's brought some stuff to the table that is good and I think we've gotten a lot out of him with regards to his arguments with Oddjob.
The Weasels and Whim are both radar slippers who seem to be huge non-factors in the game aside from arguments revolving around them. I especially do not like either in Day 2: each made a whopping one post. Weasels so-called OMGUS (which I feel like is an alright argument) and Whim is on Weasels for giving up in frustration and then not. I feel like Whim's argument is frankly weaker, but neither wonderful. I am trying not to focus too much on Day 1 content since I don't think either contributed too much aside from Weasel-related insanity at the beginning (which again is insanity unrelated to them). So the worse argument today, which I believe is Whim, gets my vote.
##VOTE: Whim
Sorry for the wall-of-text in advance, but I felt like most of this needed to be said before the end of the day and the deadline is.... not here but approaching?
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im in ur base countin ur votes
Day 2
Smithers (1): Axem Rangers
Gumshoe (1): Tony, Oddjob, Gilgamesh
Oddjob (1): Gumshoe
Weasels (1): Whim
Guildenstern (2): Weasels, Gilgamesh
Gilgamesh (1): Guildenstern, Tony
Axem Rangers (1): Smithers
Whim (1): Tony
No Votes: Nobody!
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. There are like 2ish hours left in Day 2!!!!!111 As it currently stands, Guildenstern will be lynched at deadline.
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Guildenstern
Wow. Really spread out votes this Act. I'll be quick and serious: seeing neither Whim nor Weasels post for some time, director, are they in danger of... *gulp*... offscreen death?! (Aka modkill.)
Normal dialogue to follow shortly.
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I'm around. At work and unlikely to get much in, but around.
Whim/Weasels are both lurkers and that's the beginning and end of a case against them. I'd much prefer a Guildenstern lynch- I don't think he's really done better than lurking today, given his non-case, though I'd lean towards a Whim lynch out of those two.
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That's a lot of pretty unnecessary vitriol. Is that a Chainsaw Defense I hear revving up?
Only about me and Smithers, which simultaneously says that I defended myself adequately and implicitly condemns me.
I only said you defended yourself adequately later, and I've already explained the confusion of "Tony defended himself but is still suspect" in Post 155.
Your so-called 'case' against Oddjob is "Yeah, but ehhhhhh" and ends with you bashing Smithers.
My case against Oddjob was "Yeah but ehhhhh" because, while they did similar things (switching off someone that hadn't defended themselves to a flipped townie), Oddjob's was done under greater time pressure. There was a larger chance of you returning before the deadline when Smithers switched than the Weasels returning before the deadline when Oddjob switched. This makes Oddjob's switch, while still suspect, less suspect than Smithers'.
Defense of Whim is the second half the post, not bothering to post it because I don't want to clutter the topic anymore than necessary. Other than that, an admission that there is a fundamental disagreement on what constitutes a vote switching followed by a saying that because the Prinnies are innocent that Smithers changing a vote to them makes him scummy.
I've already gone over this in Post 172. Since you missed it completely (or conveniently left it out I honestly don't know), I'll go into further detail, including explaining core game mechanics that should be self-evident but apparently are not or some reason (or maybe they are and are just being intentionally ignored).
You are scummy for changing your vote from someone despite them not giving you reason to onto a townie. The only times changing a vote like that is remotely excusable are early Day 1, and the end of the day when time is very short, or in the face of an outside cop claim or other bizarre role circumstances. If we gave everyone a free pass to change their mind willy-nilly scum would be impossible to find.
Why is this vote-move scummy? Because, without your input on why you shouldn't be voted for, there is absolutely nothing to suggest Smithers ever seriously held the opinion that you were scummy at all. There is nothing to suggest that he didn't just throw a vote down on you for the sake of looking like he was participating. Contributing but not really and active lurking is certainly scummy, you agree yes? This is why such an action cannot be given a pass - if we did then no one would be accountable for their early day opinions and scum could throw out whatever garbage they wanted just to look helpful.
More defense of Whim, absolutely weak arguments for Weasels/Gilgamesh that barely even register as arguments, um, wow.
Thank you for explaining why they are bad! It gives me something to respond to.
I can see why one might think the Gilgamesh argument is weak. In retrospect, it would have been better phrased as "active lurking". I don't know what is wrong with the Weasel one, though. If you want to know why they've moved up my list, well, they haven't posted since.
Actually if the ENTIRE BASIS OF YOUR ARGUMENT AGAINST A PERSON is a sprawling conspiracy theory that involves taking your vote off someone you never wanted to lynch because the two are actually in cahoots, I would think that that second person should be pretty high on your radar. Because there is nothing that makes Axem's vote make any sense at all without the context of evil intent.
The basis of my argument is Smithers' actions, not yours. It is still possible you're town and he did it just to tie himself to you should he ever get voted off. This possibility is why you are so low on my list. It is also quite possible, however, that he was faking a spat with a buddy earlier in the day before moving away, which is why you are on the list at all.
The last bit of non-Smithers commentary on others that exists.
Nothing to really say here aside from finding this statement amusing in conjunction with my being chastised earlier for not pushing for Smithers enough.
If you didn't say anything positive about a single player then well it would be both stupid and scummy. My problem is that "I forgot this player is in the game" and "Yeah, but ehh, this person is less bad than SMITHERS!" are really
really
really weak arguments. If you suspect that many people, then you should bloody well justify it.
Weasels: Grand total of one Day 2 post (and a bad one at that), next-to-no contribution Day 1.
Gilgamesh: Active lurking.
Oddjob: Doing the vote switch dance Smithers did.
Aside from the second Weasel bit, I'm pretty sure I mentioned all of these at one point or another.
And no, your justification for voting for me being SMITHERS' BFF is not a good enough argument for a fucking conspiracy theory. "No, I don't suspect you for anything you did, I just think you're scum anyway because Smithers changed his vote away from you."
Hopefully this has been explained better in this post, but Jesus you sure are riled up considering you were actually in the lower half of my game-wide suspicion list.
In other words you are fixated on Smithers based on a disagreement on what constitutes a vote change. Your main arguments on what's going on outside of Smithers consist of condemning people who vote for Whim by arguing 'scummy intent' lurks behind arguing against her and that you don't understand why anyone would bash someone who has not done a single thing wrong (such as never be around and make weak, cursory arguments and drive a train on A TOWNIE!!!!!!! and voting for Weasel based off uhhh saving himself!). You argue that your reason for distrusting Gilgamesh is lack of content (or as you put it "player-I-forgot-was-in-the-game") in the game when the person you so vehemently defend has one post the entire day that is based on voting a player off Day 1 silliness + voting to save himself.
The first part of this is hilariously wrong, but that's been explained already. The Whim thing...people kept going "Whim isn't contributing" in regards to her Day 1 posts when uh in fact she actually was! And oh hey I go over that in Posts 132 and 136 and no one bothered showing me why I was wrong! The best effort was yours and you made zero effort to address my statement that her Day 1 contributions were fine. Gilgamesh had a notably smaller quality-to-quantity ratio and thus was deserving of whatever lurker calls he got.
---
There are only about 35 minute before deadline, however, and it doesn't seem the Smithers case will take.
##Unvote: Smithers
##Vote: Weasel Squad
For previously stated reasons, which can be found in this post, Post 146 and, to a lesser extent, Post 159.
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My time assessment seems to disagree with that of the spastic one giving us vote counts. The Day 2 starter post was made at 5:40 my time, and it's currently 5:10 here, so I think Haruhi may be adding an extra hour? Or am I missing something?
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ya i was wrong on the time there r like 25 minutes left!!! sorries
Day 2
Smithers (0): Axem Rangers
Gumshoe (1): Tony, Oddjob, Gilgamesh
Oddjob (1): Gumshoe
Weasels (2): Whim, Axem Rangers
Guildenstern (2): Weasels, Gilgamesh
Gilgamesh (1): Guildenstern, Tony
Axem Rangers (1): Smithers
Whim (1): Tony
No Votes: Nobody!
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. There are like 25 minuteses left in Day 2!!!!!111 As the votes currently stand there will be sudden death at deadline!
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Thank you for the clarification.
If this does indeed come down to Weasels vs. Guildenstern, may I petition people to consider that Guildenstern has actually been posting while the Weasels have not?
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Yikes- Haruhi was wrong?! Posting what I have now, apologies for any editing errors.
Act II. Scene III.
Rosencrantz
Off-"screen" death? What, pray tell, do you mean by that?
Guildenstern
A strange slip of the tongue indeed. Perhaps I meant off-"stage" death.
Rosencrantz
That'd be a horrible way to go. Imagine, only having your death known by messengers walking in and proclaiming "Whim and the Weasels are dead!" Truly a terrifying fate.
Guildenstern
Speaking of avoiding that fate, it may be time to switch votes in the interest of self-defense to generate a tie somewhere else.
First though to clean up a bit of old business: Obviously the Oddjob / Weasels theory has gone over like a lead balloon. Sorry I even mentioned it, I guess; as I said before I wasn't pursuing it, so ugh. But. But. I do not like this:
Oddjob
If a scum decides to bus for cred, then they do so.
If they hop off a sinking ship to avoid a lynch, then they've undone any cred, and gained suspicion. It is not a likely play.
It's game meta that is simple and boring. I can't understand why you're basing your case on things like this.
Guildenstern
This defense reduces to "it's so obviously scummy only town would risk it!" I'd got a townie feel from you earlier this day which is why I self-dismissed that theory, but I do not agree with this post at all.
Also, I mildly agree with Gumshoe that I think / hope that one of Axem - Smithers / Oddjob - Gumshoe is scum for that tussle going on. If those are both town-town disputes then ughhhhhhh.
Oh crap just saw we have less time than expected. Let's put down a vote change real fast out of self-preservation and also lurker-hunting:
##UNVOTE: Gilgamesh
##VOTE: Whim
Despite Whim's general Day 1 reasonableness this amount of late Day 2 lurking is scummy. Same argument as Gilgamesh when I at least lack am still deeply ambivalent about the Axem - Smithers / Oddjob - Gumshoe disputes.
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##Unvote; ##Vote Whim
A weasels is fine too.
I'd rather vote someone who's hardcore lurking than contributing.
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Guildenstern
Axem: How do you feel about Whim vs. Weasel Squad? The Weasels are no saints and haven't said much sensible but I also got a "frustrated townie" vibe from their late Day 1 and sole Day 2 posts. Whim... okay, she's probably away for personal reasons as well, but there's something to the same comments I said about Gilgamesh concerning her - occasional cutting posts to keep away any accusations of indecisiveness (like have plagued myself & Rosencrantz) but still not REALLY contributing that much. I think I could buy her being skilled scum more on this one.
-
I'd much rather the Weasels Squad hang simply because of the sheer amount of misrep Whim got Day 1. I've been over this a bunch of times already but if you want me to I could probably point you to posts about it (am currently preparing dinner).
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Day 2
Smithers (0): Axem Rangers
Gumshoe (1): Tony, Oddjob, Gilgamesh
Oddjob (1): Gumshoe
Weasels (2): Whim, Axem Rangers
Guildenstern (1): Weasels
Gilgamesh (0): Guildenstern, Tony
Axem Rangers (1): Smithers
Whim (3): Tony, Guildenstern, Oddjob
No Votes: No One
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Only 13 minutes remain in Day 2!
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Ggh, time rush is annoying. Not posting pictures now either (although not abandoning roleplay, pal!) Any chance we could have that extra hour on today's trial, sir? Seems like it'd help, since we were expecting it.
Happy to see either Weasels or Whim go, but some discussion first would be nice, even if minimal. Today's discussion has ignored them completely and I don't feel like either's done anything.
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Come back to a last minute mess. Great. Predictable as hell, as well.
##UNVOTE: Axem
##VOTE: Guildenstern
Surely Whim is exploding anyway, or did I miss something somewhere?
And Gilgamesh legitimately moved his vote from Gumshoe to Guildenstern so far as I can see, Excal. Otherwise I'd be far more pissed about these last minute changes.
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Sadly, no. The start of Day 2 has the time stamp, pretty clear. And I said at the start, no extensions which I am going to hold to. I know I hate it when extensions come at the last second, even when they're telegraphed pretty clearly, so no to them coming out of nowhere.
As for modkills. The Weasels have been notified, and Whim is about to be, but their deaths will wait until the end of Day 3.
Edit: Must have missed the Gilgamesh thing. Will double check that.
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Guildenstern
Axem: No, it's not needed. I saw your defenses of Whim earlier (which, as far as Day 1, I quite agree with!), just considered that they might have changed due to her lurking out the last part of Day 2.
Rosencrantz
Also having read over Axem / Smithers / Tony properly just now... this seriously smells like a massive town-town squabble to me, that or some scum who like to stir the pot. I don't think anyone laid out any good cases worth anything here. I don't buy your anti-Smithers line much at all, but does make the Rangers scum? Uhhh. I'll have to think on that?
Guildenstern
Very decisive, Rosencrantz. Well, let's post it now before hammer while we mull the Rangers over.
Ninjas: Huh. Agree with Gumshoe - can we get a one-hour extension to make this mess slightly less messy? I suspect lots of people become available around now. Extra ninja: Never mind, I guess. And yes, Gilgamesh did switch his vote to me.
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(Out of character): The Weasels haven't been here since practically the start of Day 2. Whim's been gone almost as long. I think modkills sooner rather than later would be fair so that we can start lynching actual suspects rather than being forced to lynch the question marks. Obviously it's the director's call, but town is definitely being hampered by that.
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Day 2
Smithers (0): Axem Rangers
Gumshoe (1): Tony, Oddjob, Gilgamesh
Oddjob (1): Gumshoe
Weasels (2): Whim, Axem Rangers
Guildenstern (3): Weasels, Gilgamesh, Smithers
Gilgamesh (0): Guildenstern, Tony
Axem Rangers (0): Smithers
Whim (3): Tony, Guildenstern, Oddjob
No Votes: No One
Five minutes remaining.
Edit: Sure, but I'm also going to give them warning first. They haven't had that yet, and are getting it now. Day 3.
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If this comes down to Whim/Guildenstern I'm going to be extremely pissed. Can someone else PLEASE vote for the Weasels?
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Alright, pal! Taken a quick flick through the evidence, and I'm liking the look of them weasels much more still. That said, I'd like to know if Whim's gonna be found guilty without trial anyways.
Is it possible to vote based on modkill or not? Either way, I'll:
##Unvote and then... are we allowed conditional voting, sir? If Whim's being modkilled, I'll ##Vote Weasel Squad, but otherwise, ##Vote: Whim. Seems pointless lynching someone who's about to die anyways.
--
Jammin' Ninjas. S-sorry then, pal... Take my vote on Whim above as my actual vote then.
--
More ninjas. Alright, I'm really not liking this situation, so... Sorry, sir!
##Unvote, Vote Weasels.
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Ok. A lurker is a lurker. All the same to me, as neither has contributed today.
##Unvote Whim, ##Vote Weasels
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Well, this blatantly isn't going to go my way, then, as I can only tie the vote to Guildenstern and everyone able to change it wants to go in the other direction.
The last from me today is that I suspect that there's a decent chance of me being killed overnight. In which case, I still strongly suspect that it's Axem paired with Guildenstern (top suspicion) or Gumshoe (second). Haven't had a chance to read over Axem finally responding to me or anything that's followed it. I feel very bad about the stagnation throughout today, as it means scum have also stagnated and so probably haven't been in much danger, but then there's been this huge mess at the end so I'm pretty sure there's got to be some very clear scum herding ploy going on somewhere. First impression would be the move to Whim.
-
Wait what. What the flaming fuck.
-
And Time! Stop talking, cause day is done!
-
And after the silence of the day, there was a sudden surge of voices.
"Y'know... I don't think you've been acting straight, Whim." Tony mused,
"No! It has to be that Shakespearian falsie, Guildenstern!" cried Smithers.
"Yer all wrong!" Gumshoe roared, "I got some decisive evidence here that the culprit's those weasels!"
Everyone looked set to argue, until a single man, with a single action ended it. No one was quite sure how Oddjob was able to hit all five in a single toss. But down they went, ghost weasels arising from their corpses.
The Weasel Squad Vanilla Town has been haberdasheried to death.
Having proven themselves wrong once again, town slunk back to their rooms, wondering who would not stand among them come morning.
Day 2
Smithers (0): Axem Rangers
Gumshoe (1): Tony, Oddjob, Gilgamesh
Oddjob (0): Gumshoe
Weasels (4): Whim, Axem Rangers, Gumshoe, Oddjob
Guildenstern (3): Weasels, Gilgamesh, Smithers
Gilgamesh (0): Guildenstern, Tony
Axem Rangers (0): Smithers
Whim (2): Tony, Guildenstern, Oddjob
No Votes: No One
Night 2 starts now. Please send in your actions.
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Alright, post from the Mod. It is looking like Whim is unlikely to return to play in full force. Details are not finalized yet, however, if this does not change before 24 hours have passed in Day 3, then Whim will be modkilled. If details are finalized, then this shall be noted by either Whim's participation, or Whim's modkill.
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Alright, so unfortunately, anonymous could no longer continue to play the game. Fortunately, someone else was found. I would like to thank anonymous for recommending anonymous, the replacement Whim. Anonymous will be under the same restriction as the previous Anonymous, but I think it's safe to say that Anonymous can do it, for I have faith in Anonymous.
This message brought to you by not anonymous.
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When everyone met the next morning, one more of their number did not show up. A quick check of Tony's room found only a quickly scrawled note. "He found me, how the hell'd he find m here?!" and signs of a quick battle involving a mechblade. Of Tony, there was no sign.
And it was at this point everyone knew, they had alreadyhad their two strikes. The next time, it'd all be over.
Alchemical Teacher Tony Vanilla Town has been Flaynapped.
Day three has started. Due to LYLO, there is no deadline.
Oh, right. And with 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
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Well. Um. Okay.
Roleclaim time. Town cop, returned Oddjob innocent Night 1, returned Smithers innocent night 2. It's irritating that, outside of insanity (Smithers might have something to say about this) or hitting the GF, I now have to look at Gilgamesh and all three people I guessed were Town, but there I go.
Major reread will have to come later, though, as I'm currently in the middle of something.
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Great, with three scum (right? Or something crazy what now?) I damn well hope we have some power on our side.
I myself am plain vanilla town.
Opinion on Axem very much pending on the rest of the role claims, although it would be just my luck to get in a huge fight with the cop.
I'm very much looking at a Gilgamesh, Guildenstern and Gumshoe scum team if Axem rings true. Swap in Axem for Gilgamesh if not, and with Oddjob as the wild card who I had really not wanted to doubt. Awful tussle in my head as to which out of Guildenstern and Gumshoe I'd vote for first if pushed, as I'm all but sure they both are.
Horrible but obvious meta as to why I think Whim is innocent.
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Oh, and first thought, Axem: I would be really surprised if there's a godfather in an 8/3 set up, at least in one where it matters. They've almost certainly got to be three mooks or maybe a minor power or two at best.
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So in fact yes, he realises, if I can believe Axem then I'm all but certain it's the G Team.
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Still no reread yet (it will likely come later tonight), but a few musings, since no one else has bothered showing up yet.
I find myself in hesitant agreement with Smithers on the two matters he's discussed. I don't like completely throwing out the idea of a GF but I must agree that 8/3 with a GF is less likely in the face of, say, 8/3 with a Rolecop or Roleblocker or maybe one-shot Hitman, especially since we have two vanilla flips and a role that's 17 syllables away from being a third as well as Smithers' claim. 8/3 also kinda suggests Sane Cop because anything else seems downright evil.
On the subject of Whim...impulse says scum intent in pushing her and a 3G team, sure, but scum have known it's been 8/3 for the entire game and thus the idea of bussing cannot be overlooked because they certainly had bodies to spare. A Whim/Guildenstern/? (first guess would be Gilgamesh) trio must not be quickly discarded. Getting a Machine Made Whim in LYLO is annoying but hopefully now she'll be able to give us something more to work with than...well, nothing.
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Since that last paragraph kinda flew in the face of "hesitant agreement", I'll clarify and say that I can see a 3G team, but I think the possibility of Whim getting bussed is too strong to ignore.
Without doing that reread just yet my initial assessment of things is that I will most likely vote for one of Guildenstern or Gilgamesh. Gilgamesh for avoiding the major Day 1 trains entirely (in before people point out I was voting for Tony at the end of the day too, defense is that I said I would be gone while Gilgamesh made no such indication) and potential Guildenstern bussing, Guildenstern for potential Whim bussing and potentially getting bussed by Gilgamesh. Yes that is a lot of potentials but I have two innocent returns and three scum have to come from somewhere.
No solid assessment of Gumshoe yet, reread is necessary for that. Also possible Whim bussing given the nature of his end-of-day shenanigans I guess.
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Vanilla town here also.
Axem could be right, or it could be an Axem/Smithers/x scumteam, but that seems less likely.
Whim replacing into Lylo is very annoying.
Of course I think Gumshoe is the best bet, but I've been on his case since about day 1, so yeah..
At least our chances of hitting scum are better now than ever before!
Let's get those roleclaims out fast please people, we don't have a lot of time left.
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Then I shall be explicit about what I meant by 'horrible but obvious meta':
A lot of silly stuff has gone on regarding modkills and going out of the way to get a replacement on short notice. I posit that Whim is town and Excal has basically been forced to go the extra mile to stop the game from ending from a modkill. If Whim were scum then modkilling after being gone for quite such a long time would still leave us in potential LYLO now and I don't believe that remotely as much of a fuss would have been made over it.
I know, I know.
Oddjob: yes, I face the mirrored possibility as the second case, although you should keep in mind that while townAxem => townSmithers/Oddjob, scumAmex =/=> townSmithers/Oddjob, as should be obvious to you assuming you're town.
I'm leaving further speculation until after the role claims come in, primarily as I don't want to put ideas in scum's head at this point.
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Good going, Smithers. Screwing up simply logic. In the previous post:
scumAmex =/=> townSmithers/Oddjob
should actually read as:
scumAmex =/=> scumSmithers/Oddjob
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And also Axem instead of Amex. I'm on a roll today.
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Well yeah. Also I don't believe an insane cop would be in this setup. If he's really a towncop, then you're town as far as I'm concerned.
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(http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy156/Detekative/y-gumshoe-confidentb.gif)
Alright, pal. I'm a detective. I find, y'know, the leftover pieces of evidence at a crime scene, pal, and can tell who's been there. For those not in the industry, I guess you could call me a Town Watcher.
As it goes, I checked Smithers Night One, and he was targeted by Gilgamesh. Night Two, I got nothing from the Axems.
I'm... naturally reluctant to believe that copclaim, pal. I'm not really willing to accept that we've had two major Town/Town conflicts going on while the scum just sit on the side and watch, but... well, if the claim is true, I think it's fairly obvious who the remaining scum are.
I'm looking to see what evidence i.e. roleclaims the others put forwards. As it goes, I'm somewhat suspicious of an Axem scumteam, mostly looking at Oddjob > Smithers if that's the case. Somewhat more willing to trust the Axems though, thanks to the setup, and look at a Whim/Guild/Gilga scumteam.
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Tossing the roleplaying aside for the moment for maximum clarity, alas. Three scum? Aw cruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuud. I sure hope we do have power to make up for it. For reference, my secret power is to kill Hamlet via delivering our letter to the King of England, and since Hamlet is not a player in the game I am basically vanilla.
While trying to read Excal's mind on the meta is difficult, am curious to see if anyone else claims power roles. Axem's copclaim is suspicious to me and very much has me thinking of an Axem / Oddjob / ? scumteam, but with 3 scum in an 11 player game? Maybe we do have that kind of power of doctor / watcher / cop. Also, if Smithers hadn't posted his "obvious meta" comment, I would have, so I'd strongly disagree with Gumshoe still thinking Whim is a viable lynch. That seems to point pretty strongly toward Whim being town, and even on the off chance she's not, we can at the very least wait a day or two more and let her build a record.
Obviously also very interested to hear Gilgamesh's explanation for Gumshoe's investigation, especially if the Axem / Oddjob theory is wrong. If we're "lucky" he will claim that Gumshoe is lying and we'll lynch one, but despite Gumshoe's strange belief that Whim is a viable lynch, I suspect far more that Gilgamesh is a scum roleblocker or the like. Smithers was an aggressive and fairly town investigator on Day 1, so targeting him would make lots of sense for scum. (Though it goes without saying that I think Smithers is wrong on being "practically certain" I'm scum.) Otherwise, well, we'll have to see what Gilgamesh's claim is.
Agree with Smithers that the end of Day 2 was weird as hell. On the other hand, I believe Whim is town, and know that I'm town and Weasels are town. So who was "saved" from a possible lynch? That would be Gumshoe and Gilgamesh. Gilgamesh was only voted on by town, so that's out, so that would cast some doubt on Gumshoe? (In fairness, for others, this also casts doubt on me.) Or town was just generally barking up the wrong tree, which would be depressing.
Regardless of suspicions on Axem, I'm not eager to lynch him. Obviously it's possible that town-Axem might not be killed overnight to try and pressure town into lynching him but that's still a terrible risk for scum to take. Whim's already been covered. Smithers, well, there are some scumteams I can maybe see him on but he's pretty low on my radar. Oddjob... okay, I already mentioned Axem / Oddjob is a definite possibility, but that reduces to lynching Axem basically (agree insane cop is unlikely). If there really is an Axem / Oddjob team we can try and hunt the third member first (and maaaaaaaybe have more evidence on Day 4). Gilgamesh and Gumshoe, well, I want to see Gilgamesh's post first. But definitely leaning toward lynching one of them at the moment.
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Guildenstern, if you think Whim is town and are not "eager" to lynch me, who is your proposed scum team?
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Would like to see Gilgamesh post first, as that can tell us a lot. Briefly, if Gilgamesh disagrees with Gumshoe we lynch one of the two based on how the claim proceeds. If Gilgamesh agrees but claims some notable power role for what he did night 1, well, there's still too much power lying around (that'd be 4 power roles) and someone is probably lying. (As an obvious example, if he claims cop like you have, then we probably need to lynch one of you two).
Without Gilgamesh's input I'm thinking one of:
A) Axem / Oddjob / ? (Question mark would be somebody not Smithers, if Smithers / Axem was a scum-scum dispute then kudos for selling it to all of us. Probably just one of Gumshoe / Gilgamesh, Whim is an outside shot.)
B) Gilgamesh / Gumshoe / Whim. I don't buy Whim as likely scum but if you are real cop, Axem, then those are the only options.
And if Smithers is scum then, well, damn it. Anyway, as you can see, since (?) in option is likely either Gilgamesh or Gumshoe, and they're both guilty in option B, I'm thinking we should lynch one of those two.
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Edit: Should read "since (?) in option A is likely either Gilgamesh or Gumshoe."
Anyway, the fact that I have trouble accepting scum-Whim should show why I'm skeptical of your claim, Axem, even if not eager to move soon on it.
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Okay, just wanted to make sure.
The Whim meta explanation I can buy, but there's still a teeeeeeeeeny part of me that doesn't like banking on Excal not doing the same song and dance for ScumWhim that he'd do for TownWhim because I'd think he'd see this sort of thing coming.
Anyway, things have more or less wrapped up for the night, so I'll get to that reread.
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Had one of those realizations in the bathroom that I'd left a case out, though it's more relevant to Day 4 / Day 5. Saw others raise the GF possibility but it's actually not overly relevant at the moment? We can still do better than one of Axem / Oddjob / Smithers anyway (again assuming that the Axem / Smithers dispute was for real). To wit:
C) Town-Axem hits a Godfather somewhere. This obviates the need for scum-Whim, and then 3/4 of Gumshoe-Gilgamesh-Oddjob-Smithers are scum. But only one of Smithers / Oddjob can be scum if it was a Godfather, so this still reduces to "lynch one of Gumshoe / Gilgamesh."
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Okay, I've finished my reread, but I'm going to hold off on comments until Gilgamesh and Whim have posted for what I hope are obvious reasons.
I will say that something has already happened today that I don't like the looks of, but, again, clamming up until everyone has arrived.
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Votes: None!
Time remaining: None, it is LYLO.
However, Whim is still on modkill probation. 12 hours remain to post until Whim is modkilled.
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MOD ANNOUNCEMENT
Alright, I've noticed the meta on Whim, and I just want to clear a few things up. Firstly, in my last game modding for Mafia, the Scum team got torn apart by Modkills. So if Town were to lose this game on a modkill, I'd be perfectly happy to accept that as Karmic justice. So, if Whim is town, and she does not post in twelve hours, then this game is over. (Fortunately for the lot of you, I have assurances this is not to be the case)
Secondly, I generally dislike modkills as a rule. So, I will try and avoid them, regardless of which side they are on.
Thirdly, I did not actually go out of my way on this. During Night 2 I got a message from someone who was not playing to the tune of "I hear you need a replacement." to which I went "That I do." This person is known to me, and to a few others, and should be able to play a good game, so I made the switch. But it should be noted that I did not seek a replacement, and was actually planning to go ahead with the modkill as scheduled when this opportunity was presented to me.
Play with the meta if you like, but know that I did not pay attention to it when making these decisions.
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Welp, I'm not any happier about my replacement being into LyLo any more than you folks are, but here I am. Also, apologies for the lack of flavor, but we really don't have any wiggle room to screw around here. I'm going to launch directly into LyLo analysis, and then I'm going to analyze the rest of the thread to narrow down the possibilities.
I'm VT. Everyone else but Gilgamesh has now claimed. If Gumshoe is town, then Gilgamesh is either scum or a power role, and Axem is scum. If Axem is town, then Oddjob and Smithers are town, and Gumshoe is scum. Note that we can't draw any other definite conclusions from one of them being scum - it's quite possible that they're both scum and this is a sacrificial gambit, which would indicate that they thought we were on the track to lynching scum today anyway.
Gilgamesh's claim will be very important here - even in an 8:3 game, I wouldn't expect to see a Cop, a Doc, a Tracker, plus another role, all town. Scum would have to have some strong power roles of their own to balance that, and I haven't seen any indication of any scum power roles at all so far, so Occam's razor says at least one of them is scum. Depending on Gilgamesh's claim, the game balance argument alone might indicate that two among them are scum. The game balance argument also pretty much rules out a Gumshoe-Gilgamesh-Axem team, since I don't think the town would be given only a Doc and a Ghost Writer in an 8:3 game. Objectively speaking, these criteria limit the possible scum trios to the following:
Axem-Dick-Gilga, Axem-Dick-Guild, Axem-Dick-Oddjob, Axem-Dick-Smithers, Axem-Dick-Whim, Axem-Gilga-Guild
Axem-Gilga-Oddjob, Axem-Gilga-Smithers, Axem-Gilga-Whim, Axem-Guild-Oddjob, Axem-Guild-Smithers, Axem-Guild-Whim
Axem-Oddjob-Smithers, Axem-Oddjob-Whim, Axem-Smithers-Whim, Dick-Gilga-Guild, Dick-Gilga-Whim, Dick-Guild-Whim
Speaking from my own perspective, I can see that the only possible scumteam that doesn't have Axem is the 3G one. Gilga's claim will narrow down even more of the possibilities, depending on the details.
(Ninja'd: And I just now realize that I hadn't considered the possibility of a Godfather. Bleh. Oh well, then keep in mind that Smithers or Oddjob might be scum with Axem town, but that the likelihood is quite small when considering the unlikelihood of a Godfather in an 8:3 game.)
But that's just cold analysis, which anyone could come up with. I'm going to try and weight these possibilities with a reread while we wait for Gilgamesh to show up and claim, but until then, some more subjective impressions of this LyLo: Firstly, Axem's claim does look good in that he chose two living players as his investigative results. In my experience, scum making a fakeclaim are more likely to pick dead players as investigations, rather than risk either tying themselves to a scumbuddy or protecting a townie from a lynch depending on who they claim as cleared. He also claimed early in the day, which indicates that if he's scum, then he was planning to do so from the start - again, only likely if he saw scum getting lynched today anyway and wanted to pre-empt the case.
I also get bad vibes from Smithers trying to claim that I have a meta clear. Maybe I'm just paranoid, but it looks like he's trying to use a really weak point to lull the replacer into a false sense of security so that the replacer will say something stupid. Ditto for Guildenstern going along with it. Gotcha games in LyLo are very much a scummy thing.
Okay, now for my re-read. For the record, at this point, Axem's claim looks plausible enough that I'm willing to consider the 3G team instead of one of the many Axem ones, but I'm not ruling either of them out. I'm thinking that it'd be smartest to lynch the G that's most likely to be on a team with Axem, then see if Axem survives 'till tomorrow and what he claims his investigation as if so. So if I had to place a vote right now, it'd probably be on Guildenstern. An Axem-Guildenstern-Smithers team wouldn't surprise me.
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I saw the update in the morning, and then got stuck basically the whole day away from a means of replying. So here I am, ready to be rather minimal.
First off, I'm vanilla town. Second off, Gumshoe's lying.
##Vote: Gumshoe
I don't think this is even a hard call for others to make, even without this; the way he stonewalled the vote yesterday by swinging in to put it at 3/3/3 was such a bullshit move to pull, and he was clearly defending one (or both) of Guildenstern or Whim.
I'm leaning towards believing the Axem's and a lot of it is due to setup meta, which is pointing towards the 'both' option. I'm entertaining the thought of an Oddjob godfather, but it just doesn't feel right; I expect godfathers to be somewhat more active than he's been (and unlike Gumshoe, his switch onto Weasels really does look like an effort to kill a lurker rather than bullshit, although coordination isn't impossible and argh I'm not sure and this needs to be said now.)
Either way, Gumshoe's definitely scum.
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Time limit: It's LYLO, there's no time limit.
Whim Limit: 4.5 hou... oh who am I kidding. She posted, there's no Whim limit.
Votes: It's LYLO, there's no vote... wait, what?!
Gumshoe (1): Gilgamesh
Not Voting: Everyone not named Gilgamesh, or dead...
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Okay, so I thought Gilgamesh would have posted by now, but I guess not. I've got bored waiting, though, so I've ended up writing a code to help the penguins. This is not an appeal to 'look good' or whatever - this is plain old neutral boredom.
Prinnies! 17 syllables isn't many, so here's some help to pack more meaning into that space. I've mapped each remaining player to a letter, and then all groups of three to a monosyllabic word:
2. Axem Rangers: A
3. Dick Gumshoe: E
4. Gilgamesh: H
5. Guildenstern: N
6. Oddjob: R
9. Waylon Smithers: S
11. Whim: T
AcHE
bEAN
ARE
SEA
ATE
HANg
HARm
HAgS
HAT
RAN
SANg
ANT
RagS
ART
SAT
HEN
HER
SHE
THE
NERd
SiNE
NET
SiRE
TERm
SET
HoRN
SHiN
HuNT
SHiRk
HuRT
THiS
RuNS
TRoN
ToNS
SoRT
Or use your own, but I recommend at least this style (capitalise relevant letters, and bonus letters should not be of the relevant set) and these letters to make sense. Similarly if you want to express pairs. For just one person, I recommend shortening Axem Rangers to 'Gers, Dick Gumshoe to Dick, Gilgamesh to Gilg or 'Mesh, Guildenstern to Guild, Oddjob to... either half and myself to Smith, Whim not needing the treatment. Perhaps also consider a 1-10 scale for least scummy to most scummy.
Ninja: oh, there he is. And not even remotely what I was expecting (which was a second cop claim, which I wouldn't have thought of as immediately inferior to the Axems). Give me a bit to actually think about this now.
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Note to Prinnies, and apologies to Smithers. But acronyms of proper nouns are still proper nouns.
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Well, first thought is that sure, obviously at least one of Dick and Gilgamesh is scum.
Second thought is that it's a damn weird move for Dick to make assuming he saw it coming.
Third thought is that at least one of Axem and Gumshoe is town, surely. So if I'm to assume Axem scum then he's at least paired with Gilgamesh.
Ninja: as in the acronyms would count for the full syllable cost, or that the Prinnies aren't allowed to write using proper nouns?
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That's the Prinnie's info to give out. At least until the game ends.
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So, at least one of Gilgamesh and Gumshoe must now be scum. This sinks all possible Axem-Guildenstern scumteams, including the one I favored up until now. Speaking from the position of knowing my own towniness, either both Gilga and Gumshoe are scum in a 3G team, or else I'm looking for the one that's Axem's scumbuddy, in which case there is only one right answer. For an 8:3 game to be balanced, one of the two living claimed power roles must be legit. So, Axem and Gumshoe are not scumbuddies. Therefore, Gilgamesh is scum either way.
##Vote: Gilgamesh
I'm certain that my vote is safe here, so there's no point holding back. I don't expect the other townies to be convinced so quickly, but you should keep in mind that for Gilgamesh to be innocent would require me to be guilty.
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Starting from the assumption that the game hasn't ended yet and I just don't know it, [at least] one each of the pairs (Dick, Gilgamesh), (Gilgamesh, Whim) must be scum.
Assume Gilgamesh isn't scum. Therefore the other two are. Pairings are:
1) Dick-Whim-Axem
2) Dick-Whim-Guild
3) Dick-Whim-Oddjob
4) Dick-Whim-Smithers
Case 1) I drop out of balance issues. Case 4) I drop because I am town. Case 3) I drop a little less certainly on account of balance issues of 8:3 with a godfather up against just a cop and a doc (for reference, given I had to work it out to understand her logic, Whim has also dropped the possibility of town{Axem, Whim, Dick/Gilgamesh} on the grounds that it requires a godfather to work).
So if I'm to assume townGilgamesh then I'm just about dedicating myself to a scum team of Dick, Whim and Guildenstern. The trouble here is that this is an entirely plausible scum team for me (assuming I don't apply the meta that I'm getting shouted at for supposing), both in that all three have done a pretty bad job all game and in that Gilgamesh has never been on my bad side.
Conversely, it also means that if I'm looking at scumAxem then he must be paired with scumGilgamesh (with the third being one of Guildenstern, Oddjob or Whim), which means that at least one of my reads (scumAxem, townGilgamesh) was incorrect.
tl;dr: I've made a bunch of misreads this game, so am now hesitating horribly on being freely presented a really obvious path.
Excal: well, I know which of those I'm going to assume and could try to munch the situation again, but I think it's best that I opt by the 'no silly buggers' rule and leave the role to run as you intended.
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Argh I hate all this thinking.
I'm too tired to think, not going to look at this mess in detail until tomorrow.
No scumhammers, so that's good at least. Zzzz.
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Ninja: oh, there he is. And not even remotely what I was expecting (which was a second cop claim, which I wouldn't have thought of as immediately inferior to the Axems).
I actually saw this coming as a confusion tactic. I believe Gilgamesh and Gumshoe are a scum pair trying to throw everyone off with this nonsense.
The action referenced in Post 223 is Gumshoe claiming as early as he did. I believe TownGumshoe with a Gilgamesh action in hand would not have jumped the gun in that fashion - instead, he would have seen my claim, realized the implications if I was indeed telling the truth, and held back to see what Gilgamesh had to say before springing his info (to make himself sure of what was going on if no one else). Claiming before Gilgamesh had posted gave Gilgamesh free reign to claim a variety of things, including the smokescreen vanilla claim. I think Gumshoe claimed what he did for just that purpose, with the additional benefit of actually knowing what scum buddy Gilgamesh would have been doing Night 1 (in case Whim had something to knock a different claim over).
With this decision I am set to toss the idea of GFSmithers/GFOddjob and focus on one of Guildenstern and Whim as the remaining scum. I am fine with voting either of Shoe or 'Mesh with a slight preference leaning toward 'Mesh due to me thinking he's a roleblocker (based on Shoe telling the truth for Whim-related reasons noted above and vanilla Smithers not being aware of being targeted) and I'd rather knock the potential roleblocker out simply because it eliminates all possible scum chicanery with RBing me and killing Smithers and Oddjob to make me look suspicious. However, this is not set in stone, and I am open to discussion wrt voting Shoe instead.
(Reread turned up nothing spectacular aside from reminding me how cruise control lurkertastic Gilgamesh has been all game, as well as pointing out Gumshoe's scummy swing to Oddjob late in Day 1 which I'm kicking myself for missing and pursuing the red herring Smithers flip-flop instead.)
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The risk of failure stresses me the hell out, as loss in this position means me having screwed up massively one way or the other, be it from being talked down from being correct on Axem or from somehow talking myself out of the 'obvious' answer in the final day. Well, I'm going to have to take a step somewhere regardless.
My conclusion is that Axem's played a really good day three if he is scum. The early cop claim doesn't faze me very much (scum angle of being a rolecop and having scanned both myself and Oddjob as vanilla is simple enough without touching more complicated possibilities), but just about everything else following it falls into place really neatly. A bit of a wurgle over scanning Oddjob over me on night 1 and obviously plenty for the following railroad, but on the whole it's all so minor compared to the other way around.
I can't help but find the scumDick and scumGilgamesh position pushed compelling. It's that and a few random things here and there that really stick in my head that really push it.
On the other hand, this conclusion throws me more towards Gumshoe than it does Gilgamesh, and a re-read is most damning of Gumshoe of the pair. I think I'm looking at three out of Dick, Guildenstern, Gilgamesh and Whim, in that descending order, and it's the Gilgamesh~Whim twiddle that halts me short of voting Gilgamesh.
Blah. I get this far and yet I still don't have the balls to put my vote down. If I'm playing weak and safe then it goes to Dick. The stronger but riskier play is the vote for Gilgamesh.
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Okay, I'm going for the wuss option, as further thought suggests that the stronger option doesn't necessarily help any more.
Time to find out if I've been played like a fiddle.
##VOTE: Dick Gumshoe
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Musing by myself has actually swung me over to the idea of voting Gumshoe first (mostly because of the power role claim counter to my own), but there's one last thing I want to go back through the topic and look at (in case I'm killed tonight) so no vote yet.
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Alright.
##Vote: Dick Gumshoe
On the matter of Guildenstern vs. Whim, should it comes down to these two on the final day, I feel Guildenstern is more likely to be scum. The arguments against him have been better and come from more reliable sources (Smithers in particular) than those on Whim, and his pair of "maybe but maybe nots" on Day 2 stand out as truly bizarre. It's possible Whim stumbles in future days but she's done nothing notably wrong today as far as I'm concerned.
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I will be gone for several hours for a performance followed by post-performance festivities. I will be back later this evening to talk more if necessary, though I expect the day to be over by then.
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No proper nouns, dood.
Kill the most guaranteed scum.
You must be right, now.
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Time limit: ZOMG NONE!
Whim Limit: cum back 2 my place after the game and well find out if u know what 1 mean :3
Votes:
Gumshoe (3): Gilgamesh, Smithers, Axem Rangers
Gilgamesh (1): Whim
Not Voting: Everyone else
With 7 alive it takes 4 licks to get to the cneter of Whimchan's Tootsie Roll Pop
oh wait we were supposed ti find that out after the game
o well
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(http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy156/Detekative/gumshoe-manb.gif)
What the hell, pal?! Keep in mind that this is Lylo. LYLO, pal! We lose if I get lynched now, you hear me?
Seeing those votes and no scum jump in the last however long makes me suspect the Axems even more - although I'm seriously wondering why Smithers is voting me, and considering that I may've been wrong about Oddjob. Gah.
Naturally, I'm gonna be voting for the one who, you know, is ACTUALLY MAFIA. I'm Town Watcher, I've said that. If you guys choose not to believe it, then... well, our loss. Simple as that.
##Vote: Gilgamesh
Most likely to get support. I'm fairly certain it's Gilgamesh/Axem, at least, based on the votes, and that 3rd place is anyone's guess. I'm thinking it likely to be Oddjob, with Smithers as the least likely due to the scuff with the Axems. Possible scum gambit? Maybe, but damn unlikely.
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I've made my choice. If you're not scum, then we've already lost, and we're just waiting on presumably scumOddjob (I've seen both Guildenstern and Whim on since myself and Axem placed votes) to wake up to put me out of my misery.
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For the record, as Smithers noted I saw the results, just want to reread Gumshoe / Gilgamesh in the thread before casting my vote. And that probably won't happen until a good bit later tonight, need to go on a sailing trip to England tonight, will hopefully be on later.
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Guildenstern: bear in mind that, if the game isn't over yet (and I'm hoping Oddjob will be waking up about now so I at least don't have to keep this meta-state up for ages), if Gumshoe isn't scum then the scum team has to be the three of us sitting on him now. It's not just a one on one face off as it is.
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I realize that, yes. Unfortunately it's a possible scumteam in the (what my gut says is unlikely) event you and Axem were a fake dispute.
And now I'm gone for real. (Well, 'till later, at least).
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##UNVOTE: Dick Gumshoe
Just give me a second to think something through here.
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For the record, it has occurred to me at this point that (from my point of view) townGumshoe now necessarily implies a scum team of Axem, Gilgamesh and Oddjob, given that everyone else has been offered the scum hammer and declined it.
On the other hand, I'm back to assuming that townAxem implies a scum team of Gilgamesh, Guidenstern and Gumshoe.
You'll note that this has an overlap of Gilgamesh, who I've effectively decided is scum by this rationale. There are two problems here, even when offered such high scum lynching odds. One is that I can't totally justify clearing Whim from the second scenario, so a Dick/Guild/Whim team sail free by this. The second one is that killing Gilgamesh doesn't resolve the stalemate, and no messing around with the night phase can resolve the pairing, so we'd hit tomorrow with (at best) two pairs of people calling for the other's lynch, and no better way of telling which one is right than we can do now. Worse than that, with Gilgamesh lynched I can't envision a scenario where I'm not the night kill. Call me an arrogant twat if you like for that, but it looks like by far the best odds for scum regardless of the team, mostly because any team needs to limit the cop clears there are.
So sure, poor old Smithers getting NKed at some point is hardly worth crying over (and I'm fairly sure is inevitable on the path to victory), but the best I can do is to resolve the showdown here and now before I do die, and lynching Gilgamesh resolves nothing and still has risk of complete loss.
The key question then becomes which of Axem and Gumshoe is to be trusted, and which is to be lynched. There are things that seriously tug at me when I think about trusting Axem, such as just how sparklingly perfect the cop-claim is with regards to what it implies and the problems it resolved and so on, especially when all it needed to work is a role cop to have scanned me vanilla, and that could just have been what Gumshoe saw so far as I know.
You know what? Crap.
I came here to write this post and convince myself that voting Dick was the only sensible course of action and that I'd already made that judgement, and that previous long paragraph was supposed to basically say 'Axem leaves me with some wurgles, but Dick looks much worse,' but here I stand convincing myself of less and less. The more I think about the claims, the less sense Axem's choice of targets make and the more I can see Gumshoe's, and all of the surrounding actions just don't seem to make sense from scum getting cornered (though Dick's latest response has done nothing to persuade me in his favour). It's frustrating as hell when both sides of the argument look incredibly dodgy. The stress is just stupid, because getting this choice wrong now is even worse than it was before.
Looking for the silver lining to me crapping myself here, I should appreciate that I've reduced it to two teams. I'm now in desperate need of sleep and don't trust myself to get it right (I'll probably wake up and regret stumbling now), so I'm going to be an even bigger wuss and postpone the decision until tomorrow, whereupon I'll examine the likelihood of the two teams before making the choice (again).
In the end, I would like to be voting for precisely either Axem or Dick. I will only vote for Gilgamesh if convinced I cannot get my way but have made my exact stance perfectly clear.
Uggh.
Did I mention how much I hate putting myself in a position like this?
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While I think about it and before I go back to regretting my latest move, you're the easiest one for me to convince here, Dick:
If you are town, then you know that three out of {me, Axem, Gilgamesh, Oddjob} are scum, else you would have been hammered by now. Of these, you can be certain that Gilgamesh is scum from your own scan, and that Axem can't be the odd one out as it would imply that both his scans turned up wrong, which I suppose is possible but harsh. Anyway, even without convincing you of Axem's guilt, you know that Gilgamesh scanned me, and just why would scum be visiting one of their own (in a game of this size)? Assuming you accept this as proof that I must be innocent, then I'm pretty sure you have to reach the conclusion that the scum team is {Axem, Gilgamesh, Oddjob}.
While I'm at it, it occurs to me that yes, that information should be enough for everyone to conclude at least that I am town (with the exceptions of townAxem and me godfather, or if there is some simple scum role that would be interested in visiting another of their own), as it doesn't rely on their own perspective - just that at least one of {Axem, Dick} to be town.
But yeah, I'm back to playing the logic game rather than the psychological game. Off to sleep before I do myself any harm.
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I've read Smithers' concerns and will say what little I can.
I investigated Oddjob Night 1 because his Prinny switch looked even worse than yours. I investigated you Night 2 because you and Tony were starting to put strong doubts in my mind by the very end of the day and I just had to be sure because I didn't want that hanging any longer than it had to. If there's a surrounding air of "Axem wasn't acting like a cop" that would be because I was deliberately not acting like a cop all game because I didn't want to get NKed. DL scum are good at rooting out power roles from looking at townies that are just active enough to be a presence but not active enough to be a first-glance NK target so I figured being loud and brash would be a good way to fly under (over?) that radar. (Plus it fit the character.)
Outside of that, I can only ask you why you think TownGumshoe would have claimed as quickly as he did - I've already provided reasons why it was a ScumShoe play - and if you really think those reasons are so likely that you'd vote me over him for them.
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##Unvote: Dick Gumshoe
Idea.
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Okay.
I'd say that it's unlikely Smithers would be NKed in favor of me if we voted Gilgamesh off - in fact, I'm willing to bet it would force scum to solve the Axem/Gumshoe quandary for the rest of you. Someone tell me if I'm missing something here...
The actual decision for Axem vs. Gumshoe is basically identical on Day 4 to Day 3 outside of the two missing people. Both come down to "which claim do you believe?" and, assuming the right choice is made, the townie will get killed the next night. I'm not sure what extra info there would be to be gleaned between now and Day 4 for making that choice. Leaving us alive tonight, however, gives us a shot at solving Guildenstern vs. Whim that making the decision now would not grant us. Scum can shut that opportunity off by killing the innocent party, but doing so hands you the guilty party on a silver platter, alleviating the pressure of making a choice on us.
So, ignoring incorrect choices, one of three things can happen here:
- Choose on Axem/Gumshoe today, survivor is NKed, Gilgamesh is lynched, one of Smithers/Oddjob is NKed (likely Smithers), Oddjob/Guildenstern/Whim endgame with no extra info.
- Lynch Gilgamesh today, Smithers(/Oddjob) is NKed, Axem/Gumshoe bring Whim vs. Guildenstern info to table, Axem/Gumshoe choice is made, survivor is lynched, Oddjob(/Smither)/Guildenstern/Whim endgame with extra role info.
- Lynch Gilgamesh today, innocent of Axem/Gumshoe is NKed, other is lynched, Smithers(/Oddjob) is NKed, Oddjob(/Smithers)/Guildenstern/Whim endgame with no extra info.
Lynching Gilgamesh gets an endgame no worse than the one we'd get from choosing on Axem/Gumshoe today, but each route has benefits not present in the Day 3 Axem/Gumshoe route - either we go into endgame with decisive info on Guildenstern vs. Whim or the Axem/Gumshoe choice is made for the rest of you. I think this might have been what the Prinnies were getting at when they said to lynch the most certain scum.
It sucks that this is being laid out for scum team to read and make a choice on, but so it goes.
##Vote: Gilgamesh
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I still think Gumshoe is scum >.>
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Right. Back.
First off let me say that off just personal reads, I definitely feel scum Gilgamesh more than scum Gumshoe. Gumshoe's claimed investigations make sense and Gilgamesh exemplified what I'd call a "skilled scum lurker." Skilled enough that I wasn't able to get people to bite on my case against him Day 2, certainly.
So, let's assume Town Gumshoe. Pretty much inclined to agree with Smithers' assessment then, with the lack of scumhammering the team is either Smithers' proposed Axem, Gilgamesh, Oddjob (and Oddjob was not around to scumhammer him), or else the unlikely triple vote of Axem-Gilgamesh-Smithers.
Scumshoe implies Town Axem (or Scum Excal for having a Scum-slanted setup). And Gilgamesh feels a pretty safe lynch anyway in this case, the only time where this fails is Gumshoe-Whim-(Oddjob/Smithers is Godfather).
Yeah, definitely talking myself into voting Gilgamesh here. Overall favor the Axem-Oddjob-Gilgamesh team anyway and Gilgamesh would be a hit in that case. Will come back tomorrow morning before actually voting, though, going to get to sleep and think about this before taking the plunge.
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Gumshoe's claimed investigations make sense
Huh?
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Axem: yes, that is exactly the set up I had in mind when I called a Gumshoe vote 'weak' and a Gilgamesh vote 'strong' (#237 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg90765#msg90765)). I then decided that lynching Gilgamesh would result in case 2), which only allows for useful information assuming that you're town (and there's absolutely no way case 3) happens if you're scum), and has the problem from my point of view that I would be dead and no longer able to make the crucial decision.
But I tell you what.
Let me go back and do my checking on the two possible teams. That way I can have my opinion to at least be there in any potential remaining days, and there'll at least be a minor bonus on offer.
Oddjob: well yes, of course you do. In fact from your point of view if Gumshoe isn't scum then it must be a {Gilgamesh, Axem, Smithers} team.
Oh, and with Axem and Gumshoe on the same train but the game not over, that's confirmation right there that Gilgamesh is definitely scum, so the Guildenstern-Gumshoe-Whim team is no longer a threat, as marginal as it seemed. But yeah, it's not like it's been about being sure about Gilgamesh being scum or not for a while anyway.
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Oh, and with Axem and Gumshoe on the same train but the game not over, that's confirmation right there that Gilgamesh is definitely scum
Can you explain how? Why can't both Axem and Gumshoe be scum?
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Because then we have like no power roles at all in an 8:3 game?
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I mean, I can see us having a watcher instead of a cop, but nothing at all? Just a doctor and a ghost writer?
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I'm just tying myself up in knots here, and conclude that I've mostly wound myself up enough to not be of much use. I think the key thing here is that I've always been convinced (for bad underlying reasons) that Oddjob is town. It's Guildenstern on the other side who's actually caused me the most pondering, as his current actions don't quite fit the profile I want him to fit if he is scum.
The contradiction I'm facing now is in the re-read, in which I'm finding it very hard to believe that Gumshoe and particularly Guildenstern aren't scum, but Gilgamesh's actions strictly favour the {Axem, Gilgamesh, Oddjob} team. Other than the very early day one vote on Axem, he's spent most of his time ripping into Guildenstern and Gumshoe. Obviously sure, that's what bussing's for, but I think the thing that stands out most is his vote for Guildenstern towards the end of day two. #179 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg90515#msg90515) is his last of the day, and I don't know, it looks dangerous. Depends just how much I want to weigh the value of bussing on scum's scales, and how much it could be trusted for scumbuddies to direct it elsewhere.
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In fact screw it, I'm re-dedicating myself to the townAxem stance. There are holes in both directions, but I think there are far more holes in the {Axem, Gilgamesh, Oddjob} case and that's it mostly my stupid pride getting in the way from not wanting to feel like a tool from being manipulated quite so thoroughly if I'm wrong in that direction.
I think the tipping factor I should be holding on to here is that scumAxem => scumOddjob, and it's Oddjob who I just can't see as scum here. I just hope I'm right, because I'm still convinced that scum need to kill me tonight.
So sure, let's say I'm happy to put the foot down on the Gilgamesh train now. I won't do so immediately in case anyone has anything left to say, but I suspect that would only be Oddjob given that he's the only non-Gilgamesh player to have not expressed the intent to vote for Gilgamesh.
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Oh, and if it's non-obvious, I'm absolutely sure that it's Axem Vs Gumshoe that decides this game, in that I'm sure that one is town and one is scum.
If they're both scum then town's been handed a terrible game, and if they're both town then Axem's vote for Gumshoe should have ended the game. This is especially obvious to me given that I know that means that two townies would have been voting for another townie, and with only Oddjob not given the chance to drop the scum hammer but two scum out there to do it the theory collapses, but I think this is true regardless, right? I can't see how scum don't get the chance to hammer in the situation of townAxem voting for townGumshoe. Either I'm town and it resolves as before, or I'm scum and... yeah, just refused to let the game end.
No, absolutely sure that we're looking at one townie and one scum of the two.
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I don't have a whole lot to add here, but I suppose I should post, if only to keep Haruhi from getting bored and molesting me. For the record, Axem's arguments for Gumshoe as Gilgamesh's scumbuddy look good to me, even keeping in mind that Axem himself is the alternative, and his projections of this game's likely turnouts should give objective reason for a Gilgamesh lynch today over a Gumshoe or an Axem one. I also don't find any flaws in Smithers's logic, and am now considering him effectively confirmed town.
There's no rush to end the day, I suppose, even if the lynch is already decided. We're going to have less people working on the case tomorrow than we do today, so any analysis that can be done before that is helpful.
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Yeah, I was thinking that given that it took me long enough to reach a decision that Excal's gone to sleep that there's no harm in leaving the hammer until after he gets back.
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Back, but not a whole lot to say. I'll be around most of the day, though I have a couple errands to run later and the house needs some picking up.
Stance has not changed from last night.
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Assuming no one else does it in my place, I'm planning on dropping the hammer on Gilgamesh in about two hours.
Recent points reinforcing {Gilgamesh, Gumshoe, Guildenstern (/Whim technically)}: Axem has been reasonable all day and errors made strike me quite strongly as a townie who hasn't thought out the scum perspective fully. On the other side, Gumshoe's 'don't lynch me, you'll lose' and attached attitude is unhelpful at best.
Recent point reinforcing {Axem, Gilgamesh, Oddjob}: Oddjob's basic lack of input this day phase.
But even the latter is kind of balanced by similar errors to Axem that make me think townie. I'm about as sure as I'm going to get, anyhow.
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Oddjob's basic lack of input this day phase.
I'm bad at lylo. It's like a sudoku but with roleclaims. I'll let everyone else do the maths, then decide based on my scumhunting skills (taking the roleclaim logic into account of course).
Anyway, I think that Gilgamesh and Gumshoe are definitely on a scumteam together. So I'm cool with a Gilgamesh lynch.
I'd even vote it if Smither's hadn't announced intention.
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Oh, and if you want reasons why - Gilgamesh came out with his claim unusually strong, dropping a vote and calling Gumshoe a liar. It looks like an intentional sacrifice bus sort of thing. THat's what I think anyway.
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On the other side, Gumshoe's 'don't lynch me, you'll lose' and attached attitude is unhelpful at best.
To add to this, Gumshoe has made no effort whatsoever to explain why he did not wait for Gilgamesh to claim first as I discussed in 236.
I am also curious as to why Guildenstern thinks Gumshoe watching me Night 2 makes sense. Surely I was not a viable NK target with the way I played Day 2?
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Okay, here, looking over the arguments.
Axem, that's a decent point, I was fully expecting a Tony kill N2 myself. Smithers would have been my #1 guess for a NK on Night 1, so at least I agree with Gumshoe there. I don't think watching you on Night 2 was irrational or anything though, as would, say, watching me have been. I thought you were town yesterday, at least (even if I'm changed my tune today).
May post more, and probably willing to hammer Gilgamesh myself if needed, mostly making a short post now since Smithers mentioned he was willing to hammer himself.
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Well, I'll basically leave it in your hands, then. I won't hammer in case you have something to say, in which case you should hammer after saying whatever you have to say or on deciding you don't actually have anything more to say.
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Though of course, Axem, as noted before, for me, Scumshoe means that Gilgamesh is guilty anyway and we can hope for new evidence tomorrow (short of the Gumshoe-Whim-Godfather case).
Also, Gumshoe should really be the one defending himself on this, but #236's arguments are... I don't want to say wrong, it's a good point, but there are legitimately towny reasons to post your roleclaim "first" in such a case, too, so it's not a conclusive point. Or Gumshoe might have just gotten impatient. If you're around, detective, you probably should respond to this.
Ninja: Noted. Okay, so anyone else have objections to hammering? If you are viewing the thread, you have about 20 minutes to post a "hey, wait, stop! I want to get a word in edgewise!" (I don't see Excal around so no super big hurry).
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Also, Gumshoe should really be the one defending himself on this, but #236's arguments are... I don't want to say wrong, it's a good point, but there are legitimately towny reasons to post your roleclaim "first" in such a case, too, so it's not a conclusive point. Or Gumshoe might have just gotten impatient. If you're around, detective, you probably should respond to this.
While possible, the fact that Post 244 had no response or explanation whatsoever - just a reaffirmation that he's a Watcher - is arguably more telling than the arguments themselves.
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Gilgamesh is guaranteed scum.
The godfather case should be completely ignored on balance concerns, especially given the confirmation that we have either a cop or a watcher, not both. Do not use it for 'what if's.
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(Smithers: I agree that such a setup would be scum-slanted but not sure we can rule it out? I hope you're right, at least, it'd make things infinitely easier...)
Act III. Scene III.
Rosencrantz
Man, I must have taken a wrong turn somewhere. Where am I? Feels like I've been wandering in darkness this entire Act, absent. Huh... that sign says "entering Lea Monde." Gulidenstern? Guildenstern?
Guildenstern
We have been waiting for you, Sydney.
Rosencrantz
Sydney? Who?
Guildenstern
What we need is a Revolution. A fresh wind to blow away the disease of the land. For our realm is SICK. It suffurates with profiteers! Fawning merchants licking the boots of the nobility! They do nothing and blame others for their failure; they steal men's dreams and twist them to nightmares... We must cleanse this corruption. There must be strong, unwavering justice. And there must be fear to enforce that justice.
Rosencrantz
Are you feeling okay, Guild?
(Romeo) Guildenstern
The world does not want a saviour. These wretches leading lives of misery do not need salvation. The rotting branch must be pruned. I will hew my retribution from your flesh. Perhaps I cannot kill you, actor. But I shall have your Blood-Sin as my trophy! With it, I shall have power beyond imagining!
Rosencrantz
You're in an odd mood. Can the Blood-Sin be shaped into, say, a mystical hammer? I think there's a heretic we need to cleanse. Plus we can steal his swords.
---
Meanwhile, in England...
Guildenstern
Now where did Rosencrantz get to? Well, best to deliver my alternate letter first, the one that says "please kill the twelve-sworded man."
##VOTE Gilgamesh
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"Hey, that Guy Gilgamesh, I know I saw him doing something, but I'm sure it was nothing suspicious, Pal."
"You fool, I am no one's Pal! And that is how I know you are no detective, but a scum!" Gilgamesh cried in return.
"W-what?! No way I'm Scum, Pal! That means... you must be the scum!"
Smither's dithered, with a cry of "Well... they both kind made sense..."
Fortunately, their decision was made for them when a cackling mysterious figure... flew? through the room, taking out Gilgamesh and leaving behind a few of his possessions and a very confused Rosencrantz. When they saw what had been scattered from Gilgamesh, they paled. He had on him Smither's Malibu Stacy Club President Card! Clearly no vanilla hench like he claimed, but...
Gilgamesh SCUM ROLEBLOCKER had been Vagranted
Gumshoe (1): Gilgamesh, Smithers, Axem Rangers
Gilgamesh (4): Gumshoe, Whim, Axem Rangers, Guildenstern
24 hours for night actions, please get them in.
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And so the henches went to bed, happy and joyful in their having found scum for the first time. In the knowledge that they had somewhere to start their search. And indeed, the next morning the right number of people came, but not the right people, as the last to arrive was a badly wounded Axem Black.
"Scumteam is..." he managed to get out before he keeled over, dead. A further examination of the Axem's room showed the five man band was entirely gone, and their knowledge died with them.
Axem Rangers TOWN COP have been killed.
Day 4 now begins, and is still LYLO.
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Interesting. Scum did decide to solve part of our dilemma for us. Do we just quick-lynch Gumshoe now? Guess we should at least let him tell us what his "investigation" was... though I suppose it is vaguely possible that Smithers-Gilgamesh-OJ was the scumteam, and Oddjob wasn't around to hammer Gumshoe. Hrmm.
Speaking of said possibility. Smithers, can you expand on why you think the existence of a Godfather is beyond the pale? That doesn't seem out of the question at all. Your vehemence on that is strange. (I'd add that in the unusual event of Gumshoe being town, that amount of town power makes a Godfather pretty plausible.) I'm also not sure what to make of your conviction on Day 2 and Day 3 that you would surely be the night kill. (Don't get me wrong, I'm still leaning toward your towniness, but...)
I'm still favoring the Gumshoe lynch, likely, but we'll have to see. Assuming Gumshoe is in fact scum, then that leaves either Whim or a Godfather as the remaining scum.
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To Smithers (And Gumshoe, I guess), what do you think the chances are of a Whim/Guildenstern team right now? Why/why not?
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Also doing a sleepy re-read. On second thought feel safer about Smithers' logic in post #264. If Gumshoe was town but Smithers were scum, Smithers could have saved his extended thoughts and unvote for later, or at least wait for (now known town Axem) to unvote while hoping for Whim to come online and finish the scumhammer. Basically scum-Smithers would have taken a terrible risk when he likely had the game right there. So... while I can't COMPLETELY rule it out, feeling better about Gilgamesh-Smithers-Whim not being a viable scumteam. (And if Gilgamesh-Oddjob-Whim was the scumteam, then that was MASSIVE FAIL from the scum to not get online when two (!) townie on townie votes were sitting there for the taking - we should have lost already, and if that freakish case is true we just lose later anyway due to rightly ruling it out. Also I think Smithers claimed Whim was online and didn't scumhammer, and I just assumed a truthful town-Smithers for that case, so yeah, no, that case is stupid.)
I'm still not entirely sure who scum #3 is, but Gumshoe is looking really really guilty.
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Gumshoe is guaranteed scum. I don't even want to hear him speak today, his lynch should be just agreed on and we can get on discussing the necessities of day 5 now.
Myself and Oddjob are guaranteed town unless you can believe in a godfather in an 8:3 set up with fairly weak town powers (spoilers: you really, really shouldn't even consider it).
The only question left in the game is Guildenstern vs Whim, which is the irritation, because I knew fine well it would be better for us if the cop was still alive and was trying all I could to polish my townie badge to get the kill on me.
What I want us to do before hammering Gumshoe is to read through Guildenstern's and Whim's posts, and to read through Gilgamesh's and Gumshoe's posts to see if they make more sense as a {Gilgamesh, Gumshoe, Guildenstern} team or a {Gilgamesh, Gumshoe, Whim} team. Today is trivial, but I want to make sure we get it right tomorrow as well.
Also, thanks for all your work, Axem, and I'm glad I was able to swallow my pride and trust you in the end. See you on the other side.
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Just in case people haven't been following all of my blather, I'll re-explain why Gumshoe is guaranteed scum.
As of #243 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg90784#msg90784) there was the trio of Gilgamesh, Axem and myself on Gumshoe. The game did not end. Whim and Guildenstern were on in the window of three votes being up (#240 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg90774#msg90774) and #249 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg90810#msg90810)). Guildenstern posts but Whim doesn't, but I'm sure Whim can confirm her own silent presence if you want. The game still does not end, leaving only Oddjob with the potential of scumhammering.
This means that if Gumshoe is town, then the scum team has to be three out of {Gilgamesh, Axem, Smithers, Oddjob}. However, we now have the truthful cop flip from Axem, and even if you can't rule out the godfather possibility, it rules out at least one more of Smithers/Oddjob. Thus townGumshoe would require at least one of Guildenstern and Whim to be scum, but not taking the opportunity to scumhammer and win. Once I can slap the godfather idea out of your head it implies that both Guildenstern and Whim to be scum and pointedly not taking the win.
So no, townGumshoe is absolutely out of the question. He is guaranteed scum and we should definitely be finishing this day with his lynch.
(Oddjob: to knock your personal theory down directly, #246 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg90798#msg90798) is sufficient - that would be a scumGuildenstern posting and not lynching Gumshoe to win for the team. It just isn't possible)
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To clarify: though I want to slap the godfather idea out of people's heads, and in doing so this makes the townGumshoe logic fail even harder, townGumshoe fails even supposing that the third scum is a godfather.
Also, if we were to suppose one of myself or Oddjob to be a godfather, scum really should have killed the other one last night as they would have had nothing to worry about from the cop investigating Guildenstern or Whim. But I mean that as a very side point compared to the logic that should damn well already have crossed out the possibility.
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In any case (to continue yet another bloody [I gave up pretending to even vaguely hide my identity a few days back] combo - I can't seem to settle all of my thoughts in the same place at the same time at the moment), without additional support from a re-read of the two potential teams, I'm pretty confident that it's scumGuildenstern and townWhim.
What strikes me most is remembering Axem's post at #236 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg90757#msg90757), where part of the theorizing around the weirdness of Gumshoe and Gilgamesh's play was to be prepared for any possible input from a theoretical power role Whim. Had she been their third team member then they could have claimed something far neater than that.
The second thing to being itself to my attention is my previous re-read on Gilgamesh, which showed him attacking Guildenstern and Gumshoe practically non-stop. I was concerned at the time that maybe he was just pushing two town trains, but with a now confirmed scumGumshoe what this very much looks like is bussing overload with the intention of looking absolutely spotless should the plan otherwise fall apart.
When I then take into account that behind the tiff I was having with Axem on day two that Guildenstern and Gumshoe were already my top votes otherwise and hence take into account Guildenstern's already incredibly dubious play then I think I'm already rather heavily in the G Team camp. I was pondering voting for him now instead of Gumshoe so I could be a more direct part of the victory, but that's just kind of daft. We should still get rid of scumshoe first.
Oh, and the only reason I don't have a vote on Gumshoe right now is that I'd at least like to hear from everyone (except Gumshoe) and work out day five before we do this.
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And since scum Gumshoe means that the town just had a Cop, Doc, and Ghostwriter, it's very unlikely that scum would be given a Godfather against that in an 8:3 game. Objectively speaking, that confirms Oddjob and Smithers as town, narrowing the choice to Whim vs. Guildenstern as the only lynch that's up for grabs.
I'm not sure that I see the point in lynching Gumshoe today. The last scum would just want to kill whichever of Oddjob and Smithers he figures as more likely to vote him. I'd rather not give scum the initiative there. Leaving the choice 'till tomorrow, to be made by the survivor, opens the possibility of a last-moment change of heart. I think that Smithers and Oddjob should come to an agreement and then place their votes together against one of the remaining candidates, leaving the other to hammer.
Cut by another Smithers post. Well, I'll hammer Gumshoe instead if you decide to go that route, but I still think it'd be better to settle it today with both you and Oddjob still here.
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Well, it's another matter of pride, Whim, which as we've seen has caused me nothing but trouble this game. In this case it's basically a silly padding of 'I'd rather lose with one scum left alive than two', which I think is effectively meaningless at the best of times but certainly when one is confirmed and it's the same choice of two for remaining one regardless.
So yes, I think you're right. Let's do it today with more townie heads together and leave Gumshoe as the guaranteed lynch tomorrow should we be right. Typical paranoia running in that you're saying that while you have my attention set so strongly against Guildenstern, but objectively I think it's true regardless of your alignment.
In which case I'll make a re-read through the thread to be as sure as possible of my choice, before inevitably returning to vote for Guildenstern. No doubt you want to put your vote down now since it's not really a choice for you, but I'll wait on for Oddjob so that he at least gets a say here (if I rush and am wrong, then we lose without him getting a look in, which has got to be annoying for him).
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On re-reading Gumshoe (I should point out that major credit should be going to Ard for getting on his case quite so early, which is presumably a major part of what drew NK1):
Early day one play groups Guildenstern and Whim together. This connects with Gilgamesh's final post at #227 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg90739#msg90739), which is clearly their final toss of the dice in hoping that we won't be able to differentiate between the two of them. I'm a little flummoxed by his vote on Guildenstern at #54 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89475#msg89475), but by the time it's removed at #87 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89766#msg89766) there was never any real threat of it taking hold (Oddjob at #81 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89723#msg89723) is the only one in the frame who says anything even remotely implying that a vote might be heading towards Guildenstern).
Come day two and suddenly (#129 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg90137#msg90137)) Guildenstern is forgotten and Whim's his second spot after his continued push for Oddjob, and at #160 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg90367#msg90367) he downplays the relevance of my case on Guildenstern (in #157 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg90347#msg90347)), and okay, I think that's pretty damning in itself, actually. This Guildenstern love continues in #167 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg90443#msg90443), and #173 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg90476#msg90476) again pushes Whim over Guildenstern.
#175 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg90492#msg90492) actually weirded me out at the time, but I didn't comment on it at the time and since forgotten it. He phrases the current vote structure as two conflicts of Gumshoe versus Oddjob and Axem versus Smithers, and kind of pushes for one scum from each pair. Sure, whatever. What's important here is that there was a third direct conflict - Gilgamesh versus Guildenstern - that he didn't draw attention to. Unfortunately I can't press this as strongly as I'd like as it could simply be that he was keeping the attention off of Gilgamesh, but I can't help but think the importance was to keep it off a scum pair.
This leaves #196 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg90540#msg90540) - The Final Wurgle - in which he professes an intent to vote for Whim, but then moves to the weasels on the Axems' behest, in which I have to decide just how genuine all of those internal ninja edits are.
And man, even in day three he professes the likely scum team as 'Whim/Guild/Gilga' (#216 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg90679#msg90679)), the emphasis being on Whim. Incredibly minor point, but it's the minor things that really make the glue for me after the big things have made the structure relatively sound.
So yeah, I'm not sure I even need to bother reading up on Guildenstern and oldWhim. I remember well enough how badly/scummily Guildenstern had been playing, and Gumshoe/Guildenstern buddy buddy with Gilgamesh there as the back up bussing plan just looks so damn clear with that.
I am now going to re-read Guildenstern and oldWhim while waiting for Oddjob to pop his head in again, but I'm announcing at this point my clear intent to vote for Guildenstern.
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I'm happy with Guild/Gumshoe, but I want to be the one to hammer Gumshoe 8-)
There's not really much I can say, you've covered all the bases Smithers. The only thing left out is that Gumshoe has been trying to get me lynched ever since I started voting for him, which is way past scumbus. Axem confirming me as town (save for GF) also heavily weighs down on him.
I'd still tentatively say hammer Gumshoe today, but I'm a cautious type.
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I should point out that if you take the internal ninja edits at #196 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg90540#msg90540) to be genuine, then he was planning on putting the crucial vote into Whim, which all but totally confirms townWhim in this set up. If it was all measured then it could just be set up to look that way, hence the wurgle. My conclusion is that it is completely genuine, as time was seriously pressed and it's not like scum have any more ability than town to post fast.
So if you're happy with the plan, then I say we should go ahead and lynch Guildenstern right now.
Hilariously, the biggest thorn in the plan is your desire to hammer Gumshoe, which I'm more than happy to grant you, but see you getting NKed in the meantime for, given that if we're not wrong on Guildenstern then Gumshoe is guaranteed, so it's not like sole remaining scum Gumshoe has anything better to do.
That said, I'd still rather go with Guildenstern now to make it crystal clear, as per Whim's concerns at #287 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg91000#msg91000) as even though Whim herself is the one we're being cautious of otherwise the logic holds true.
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I've just had a quick re-read of Guildenstern and oldWhim. I have a few problems with oldWhim, principally the ordering muck up at #68 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=4339.msg89631#msg89631), but it's just nothing compared to the constantly bad behaviour from Guildenstern, that I dealt with at the time and can't be bothered to repeat here.
At a personal level Guildenstern looks much worse than Whim. On a scumteam level Guildenstern is even further ahead.
I'm as confident as I'm ever going to be at this point in:
##VOTE: Guildenstern
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Right then, let's get this show on the road.
##VOTE: Guildenstern
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Well... I could wait, but it doesn't seem like there's any point. So...
Smithers let out a fierce cry "It was you! You're the one who killed Mr. Burns!" pointing a furious finger at the local dane. Before he could do so much as issue a cry, a hat struck home, killing both him and his faithful companion Rosencrantz. With that, Smithers and Oddjob congratulated themselves on a job well done, as Whim rushed forward.
"Oh, Smithers-san! You were so reliable! I wish to reward you!" she cried as she gave him a hug.
"Erk... Whim... this hug is a little tight... and a little high..." Smithers gasped.
"Of course, it's Miss Lily's special," Whim said, twisted glee pulling on her lips. "No one knows it like me!"
Oddjob, hat in hand was ready to get the crazed mana off of Smithers, but didn't get a chance. As with a "Can't let you do that, pal." he shot the hench dead.
And soon, that's all that was left.
"Y'know. Feels kinda wierd, pal. Figger I oughta done something on the last day to help us win," Gumshoe said, looking at the aftermath.
"No, Detective-san! We don't do things anymore. Others do things for us!"
"Hey, that's right! M... maybe I'll even get someone to make my noodles for me!"
"That's the spirit!" Whim cheerfully replied, as the two of them left the scene.
Guildenstern Vanilla Town was lynched.
Smithers Vanilla Town was given Lily's special handshake.
Oddjob Vanilla Town was shot in the back.
SCUM WINS
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Lame.
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Okay, guys, I got a guilty return on Whim and - wait, whaddaya mean the Breaker Beam is still recharging?!?
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God dammit, why didn't anyone listen to me about Gumshoe on day one. -.-
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Sorry about that. I had no clue I was going to get as busy as I was, so I had to resign. oldWhim here.
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(http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy156/Detekative/gumshoe-laughinga.gif)
Thanks a lot, pal! You kept me alive to see my next bowl of instant noodles! It was helpful to both Town and Scum to sort out Whim/Guild today instead of tomorrow, but that does mean I can live. Thanks again!
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Act IV. Scene IV.
In 13xx Denmark, war was beginning...
Hoartio
What happen?
Fortinbras
Somebody set us up the hammer.
Guard
We get signal!
Operator
Main screen turn on.
Horatio
It's you!!
Dick, Earl of Gumshoe
How are you gentlemen??
Gumshoe
Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are dead.
Horatio
What you say!!
Gumshoe
They were harmless townies make your time.
Gumshoe
Ha ha ha ha...
Horatio
Now cracks two noble hearts. Good night sweet princes:
And flights of angels sing thee to thy rest!
Wait, I was not referring to you fools with this.
Script-writer, I am going to cut you.
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Definitely didn't see that one coming. Especially not the Guildenstern lynch. >_>;
Good game, dood.
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(Guildenstern here.) Looking back... dang, we came really close to lynching Whim rather than Weasels Day 2. I can understand coin-flipping equivalence between two lurkers but ugh. (And Gumshoe helped turn it to Weasels, natch.) We were also obviously close to lynching Gumshoe, too, before that train petered out! Ciato / Tony was especially on point there, when she flipped from Gumshoe it was to Whim. (I'd also point out I went Gilgamesh->Whim myself.)
And though I voted for Whim Day 2 I will admit she & Gumshoe were both pretty high in my esteem in general. Oops. And though I was right about Gilgamesh I wasn't able to *sell* anyone on that fact, and Carthrat did a good job at the lurking - there really wasn't much to build a case on aside from "I've got a bad feeling." It occurs to me that in a game with some town lurking, scum can also abuse lurking as well so long as they're less of a lurker than the alternatives.
In my defense... I can totally see why I appeared scummy, but eh. I didn't want to make up stuff and I genuinely wasn't finding much to go on, which led to more "What person X said" than is healthy. My personal read was "the big topics of discussion all smell like town-town disputes gone horribly wrong, so I guess I should take aim at lurkers." (Oddjob - Gumshoe, of course, turned out to be a proper town-scum dispute, and I was pretty confident that if any one of them was scum it'd be Oddjob.)
Anyway a fun game. Good concept for the idea and the role-playing was fun (agree with booooooing Bard for scaring off the extra Axems). I seriously considered posting the entire time in Shakespearean English but I knew some people would be less than pleased, and it'd be easy to misinterpt, so nixed that idea. And though they weren't in for long, Ard & Liz get my "amusing roleplaying" nod. Most everybody was pretty funny, so good times all around.
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I'm mostly not seeing why they went for you over Gumshoe, when Gumshoe was pretty much guaranteed scum at that point. They could figure you and Whim out with the rest of the day, and the next day. I dunno. LYLO just doesn't seem like the time to try and leave the definite scum around. (Which is why I was pushing so hard for the most guaranteed scum to be lynched, in that last haiku)
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[12:48pm] <Ranmilia> [23:45] <Serpentarius> Ultimately, it'll come down to Guildenstern, Oddjob, and me, with Guildenstern and I voting each other.
[12:48pm] <Ranmilia> ^ scum plan
[12:48pm] <SnowFire> Sounds right.
[12:49pm] <Laggy> So you would have been left to the whims of Dread Thomas
Since Oddjob voted for me anyway in an equivalent situation, this probably just sped things up with less fuss.
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Since I feel I need to comment on it...
The scum view, for the first two days, was to have Gilgamesh shoot down either Gumshoe or Whim out of nowhere to lead to a lynch. Gilgamesh was chosen for two reasons - firstly, Roleblocker. Secondly, probably the best player of the three of us. >.>
Of course, with Bard's disappearance, we were forced to change that, and new!Whim decided to play on the strength obtained through Word of Mod. Unfortunately, when I came around, I had to make a rushed decision and claimed Town Watcher. I figured we needed more roles, and went with that - my initial plan was for Whim to claim the same and force a choice between us, but then I figured it might backfire and destroy both of us. That was why it was changed to Gilgamesh, since he was already suspicious anyways. It was somewhat annoying to return to find Gilgamesh dead instead of me, but that's how things go. In the end, it played out as our original new!Whim plan intended, with her keeping town rep > Guildenstern.
If I had returned in time to claim on the last day, btw, I would've risked it and claimed Smithers had killed Axem. I know it'd never work but, if nothing else, it'd not tie me to Whim at all.
I should have probably guessed characters, but I'd've only got three.
Oh, honourary mentions from me for roleplay. Ard, you were AMAZING. I was genuinely disappointed to have to see you die on N1! Also, Guildenstern and the Axems - it's a shame that the Axem group had to stop posting so early, although it was also very distracting, admittedly.
Oh, before I forget - sorry, Tom. I genuinely thought your actions were scummy, and just decided to play on that to create a huge debate out of it. If it means anything, I loved your "bag of nothingness" post on Day 1!
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Mage: read the topic. Gumshoe was 100% guaranteed scum, and it was better to push him out of the picture and work out who the other scum was with more townies around. I pushed Guildenstern over Gumshoe after reaching a consensus to guarantee that day 5 would go as I wanted it to should I die. It wasn't a matter of thinking Guildenstern was more scummy than Gumshoe or anything.
Snow: dude, sorry (and I was convinced it was you playing Gumshoe - guess I've done as poorly as usual with character guesses - I was also absolutely convinced beyond any doubt that Bardiche was Tony, admittedly having never played with Ciato before). It was just so obvious that you had to be the third scum and you had been set on innocent clueless lurker newbie mode as of the start of day 3 in order to yank at my conscience more than anything else.
There was absolutely no way in hell that I at least was going to conclude it was Whim. Barely present for apparently good reason and very little negative connection with the other scum. NeoWhim played a purely logical game and there's absolutely bog all you can do with that (other than quite how often she was present but silent, but then I do that a lot and so did Oddjob and the Axems at least), as so far as I can remember it was all completely true. Before I'm hit for the initial meta comment, I will stand by having not made the final decision based on it at all.
I don't mean to be harsh, but there's no way I could have brought town to victory with Guildenstern still alive at LYLO without another townie's word for him.
A random thing I find funny is that I wasn't going to play at all - I'm the 11th player who joined at the last minute on Excal's request to jazz up the game - and kinda sorta tried to be dead early on, and yet ended up as usual putting altogether too much time in again.
Snow Ninja: yeah, I wanted to wrap it up while there were at least myself and Oddjob around as guaranteed townies to work through everything together.
Yoshiken Ninja: oh, another wrong guess from me, then. I was convinced you were Gilgamesh.
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Yoshi: wait, you were Gumshoe and you thought you could risk claiming that I killed the Axems? We had you tied up 100% as scum, there was nothing for you to do in any way. Had you appeared I would have completely ignored whatever you said as scum smoke screening, which is why I assumed you never showed up, much like Gilgamesh's disappearance in day three.
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Yeah, I knew it'd've been written off instantly. Still might as well throw something out there, and it was never going to be Whim/Guildenstern, in case I risked changing the opinions people already had.
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[12:55:30] <Ranmilia> <Excal> EvilTom - Oddjob
[12:55:30] <Ranmilia> <Excal> Yoshiken - Dick Gumshoe
[12:55:30] <Ranmilia> <Excal> Bard - Whim
[12:55:30] <Ranmilia> <Excal> El Cid - Liz/Ard
[12:55:30] <Ranmilia> <Excal> Snowfire - Guildenstern
[12:55:30] <Ranmilia> <Excal> Mage - Prinny Squad
[12:55:30] <Ranmilia> <Excal> Ciato - MK Tony
[12:55:30] <Ranmilia> <Excal> Rat - Gilgamesh
[12:55:30] <Ranmilia> <Excal> Soppy - Weasle Squad
[12:55:30] <Ranmilia> <Excal> Kilgamayan - Axem Rangers
[12:56:33] <Ranmilia> Smithers... signed up late and Excal never actually told me who it was
[12:56:36] <Kilgamyon> Xanth.
I suppose this is Bard's revenge on Xanth for AnonyRandom and Animafia. Or it would have been if he didn't have to drop out.
Apologies to Xanth and Ciato for Day 2, I didn't really mean to be that aggravating. >_> At least it did a good enough job of keeping both Xanth and myself alive into Day 3.
rofl @ Rat for getting squeezed out as scum more than being discovered. It seems like that's the only way he ever gets caught.
Anyone that disliked the Axem cutback can yell at Bard.
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I suppose this is Bard's revenge on Xanth for AnonyRandom and Animafia. Or it would have been if he didn't have to drop out.
:( THAT WOULD'VE BEEN NICE. But yeah, right around when mafia started my family decided it was time for FAMILY BONDING so we did a lot of things together. I wasn't too much in the Mafia mood but tried to participate the earlier days... but that bombed so I dropped.
I've a good feeling Town might've sniffed me as scum had I been actually active, though, so the replacement's probably what sealed the deal on who won.
Props to El Cid and Ciato. I loved their roleplay the most.
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Wow, I guessed most of the right players... just almost all in the wrong positions.
And yeah, as fun as the multiple Axems were and all, I'm the sort of guy who spends a lot of time re-reading people's posts through the 'Show the last posts of this person.' option to forge opinions, and multiple accounts makes that a nightmare.
Ninja: yeah, I don't really want to comment on what would have happened with a more active Whim, as that's a different game entirely.
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I hadn't a case on anyone. I saw all of you and couldn't shake off the "God, I'm building cases on trivialities" feeling.
I suck as scum. And yet I've been scum more than anything else.
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Alright, now for Mod thoughts.
I see Kilga's already done you guys the kindness of posting who was who. I'll need to actually dig through all the guesses later in order to actually see how accurate people were, but the only folks who were consistantly guessed were Rat, Xanth, and Tom. Alex was also consistantly guessed, as Guildenstern, but Alex was not playing, and therefore that does not count.
As for roles,
Ard - Doctor, could not self protect. I think that in a three scum game this was a mistake, and if I redid this, this is the one thing I would change.
Axems - Cop, sane. With no Godfather, he was meant to basically be accurate. He also got lucky in a sense, managing to find two townies who were not killed so he could come into LYLO with some strong info. To watch this luck almost blow up in his face was, interesting to say the least. Also, he almost picked Whim on Night 2, which would have made for a very different game.
Prinnies - Ghostwriter. Mostly because I just wanted something quirky. It's main purpose, apparently, was to keep me from chattering about the game with Ciato after she got nightkilled. ;_; Why do I hate myself?
Gilgamesh - Roleblocker. Token scum role. Only ever got used on Smithers. Killed before it could actually be useful.
Night actions:
Night 1
Scum - Kill Ard
Ard - Protect Smithers
Gilgamesh - Block Smithers
Axem - Cop Oddjob
Night 2
Scum - Kill Tony
Gilgamesh - Block Smithers
Axem - Cop Smithers
Night 3
Scum - Kill Axem
Axem - Cop Whim
Night 4
Scum - Party in Vegas off proceeds of selling Gilgamesh's sword collection.
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Sorry if you wanted to do the dramatic name reveal yourself, but once Alex pasted them on IRC I assumed they were fair game.
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oh we won?
Super.
Ciato is terrifying. Geezus. Voting all three scum in day two? o-o
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If I had honestly cared, I'd have done it personally before going to sleep. S'cool.
On a side note, I am considering going for another anonymafia game in January. This time going with a villain motif instead of henches. Similar absurdly large pool of choices will be come up with, along with the ever popular write in option.
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Heh, this game gave me the idea of running one of those! It's currently in progress on another forum~
Best idea of mine in my opinion? Team Rocket. From the anime. Fuck yes.
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Aw, I wanted to hammer to end the game. Anyway, I'd be posting under my real account, if not for the fact that I don't have one here yet. I may end up becoming a regular here, though. Maybe I should keep this account? :3
Not a whole lot to say about my own play. I sensed that Guildenstern had a lot more suspicion against him than I did, so I decided to play it safe and post as little new content as I could. Once I narrowed my actions down to a set of logical requirements, that allowed me to just step aside and let the game take its course.
It was quite a fun game to read, though. I'd say that Guildenstern's roleplay was my favorite.
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Hijacking Whim? I'm afraid I'll refer to you as Whim for the rest of your stay here, then.
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Guildenstern gets the roleplaying prize. And heh, scum thought Smithers had a power role, I guess?
I was having a lot of fun with the flavor text and was sad to be killed, moreso given that 2/3 of my day-end guesses were right. Gumshoe was totally giving me a Hime-mafia Sopko vibe but no one listened to me amidst all the other antics going on. I dunno if I would've called Whim, had I still been alive at the end; there wasn't a lot to go on and the new player made good use of that (this in itself should've been suspicious, I guess). I'm still baffled at Gumshoe not being killed when everyone was sure he was scum, but eh, that's been hashed over in chat.
I didn't call any of the players correctly, but that's something I always fail at. The only real guesses I had were Axems = Ciato and Smithers = Alex (because I assumed alex had to be in there somewhere).
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I'd definitely play a January Anon game.
EDIT: For the clueless, can someone tell me what LizArd, Tony and Whim were all from? Everyone else I know to a degree.
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How many times do I need to say that lynching Gumshoe was a triviality? If there was a high score table and we were looking to min-max the number of scum left at the point of loss or whatever then sure, we'd have gone for Gumshoe first, but we had to make the choice at some point, and given that there's nothing artificial like that it was better for us to do it with both myself and Oddjob around. As I was as ever expecting to be the next night kill (looks like I was always the bridesmaid on this one, thanks to my terrible scum radar this game), it was the only way to guarantee that a theoretical day five would play out correctly posthumously.
I may have generally sucked at the psychological aspect of the game, but even in my panic I think I had the logical side down pat, and leaving Gumshoe to day five is one of the few things I don't regret doing.
And yeah, I'm unsurprised I was guessed fairly predictably, given my idiosyncrasies, time zone and inability to role play (also, Smithers was drawn at random for me). Next time I don't think I'll even try, as it only ever leads to early confusion.
Oh, and definitely sorry for striking a nerve late day one, Ciato - I trust you can see that that was completely unintended, as I never thought it was you, nor would have known that would have been taken so badly.
But blah, enough of the foul mood, as much as I whine I do hate souring the mood. I'm still fine to play more games - I only didn't intend to play in this game so that it definitely wouldn't play out like the previous game.
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Ciato as Tony was the only guess I really made (not that I announced it). I mean, aside from the use of the term "Weeaboo" it was just entirely too Ciato.
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Liz and Ard are from Wild ARMs 2, and Tony is "MK Tony," which I guess means Mana Khemia. I don't see the point in henchTonys other than the WA4 variety, but that's me.
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Had WA4 Tony been in play, he would have been demoted everyday.
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So he would start out as nightkilling supercop and end up as a post-limited miller?
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I'll leave the specifics up to speculation. After all, he's far more of a villain than the other Tony's.
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Sorry about pretty much ragequitting. I really did lose a giant post at the beginning of Day 2 that sapped my motivation instantly, but it's good to see my instincts haven't gotten completely rusty. My case on Gilgamesh in the original post was more than a one line suspicion toss, plus I think I had Whim pretty much nailed in either one. Of course, this is balanced by the fact that I was utterly certain that Guildenstern was scum up to that point. Wasn't until the voteswitching madness at the end of Day 2 that I began to think townie for him, but I'd already stopped caring and been gj'ed. My bad for not TAKING THE SHOT and shooting Whim when I should have.
It was funny watching people waffle when they had the last two scum pretty much cornered. Meta arguments ruined it, really. Plus the person who came in as Whim was pretty much exactly what was needed. Talked in circles and got everyone confused enough to stop suspecting them. So hat's off to scum. Gumshoe did a great job overall.
Tony wins town MVP though. Impressive voting record, Ciato.
Only person's role I managed to guess was Kilga playing Axem, I think. I guessed Cid for Smithers, Alex for Guildenstern... can't remember who I put otherwise, but I had guesses for most. Took the shotgun approach, basically. Tom for Gilgamesh, Laggy for Gumshoe, I think? No idea.
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It's no problem Kilga and Xanth, I am just a firecracker sometimes in Mafia. I have a unique playing style which mostly involves defending people who I perceive are getting picked on. I am kind of motherly like that. >_>
Playing Tony was fun. I tried to convey his passive-aggressive shitness pretty well until Ii realized it migh thave made others mad.
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Aha! I pretty much gave up on any pretense of anonymous posting after accidentally posting under this account! /fail
That was a result of staying up till 4am to post in a non-kangaroo timezone. Ironic.
The only thing I can take credit for is doggedly pursuing Gumshoe all game. I'm glad I was right about my only lead, at least!
I hate surviving till LYLO, it makes my head hurt ~_~
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Oh, and WB Ciato! Ironically I thought "I wonder if that's Ciato.. nah, she doesn't play anymore."
I didn't bother making any other guesses, I've been away from DL mafia too long.
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Oh yeah, meant to ask. Was something said about the Prinnies that I missed? Because I wondered during the game why everybody seemed to be taking their word as law. Just because they were confirmed town, doesn't make them right...
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Uhh, you mean how they were only listening to the very last thing the Prinnies said, and everything else was dismissed as pure junk? And the last thing was just reaffirming that people should be absolutely certain before they lynch?
I don't see where you're getting that one, Yoshi.
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With the "look over my defenders" thing, a few people said they did, but found no real defence past "The weasels look worse!" The fact that the arguments had nothing behind them past 'confirmed townie' was seemingly never even considered.
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Uh, well, seems like they were just trying to decode what the Prinnies said.
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And since this may or may not have been said.
LYNCH CONFIRMED SCUM FIRST.
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Holy hell, I'm not going to repeat myself again. I absolutely stand by the decision to resolve that pair when we did.
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More information is good~ Tis all I have to say. But it's okay~~ Not trying to be insulting~
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But I was trying to be insulting.
FUCKING STUDENTS.
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No one asked you.
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But you know what? I gave my opinion anyway.
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Schizophrenia~
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I crush midgety, smarmy Brazilians and eat them for breakfast.
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MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!
*GRINS EVILLY, sharpens knives*
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I crush midgety, smarmy Brazilians and eat them for breakfast.
I can't hear you over the sound of Renee grinding your soul into dust.
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I crush midgety, smarmy Brazilians and eat them for breakfast.
Ano, Tony-sensei... *thwack* >:(
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...
/me thwacks Whim with a shovel.
BAD. NO WEABOO.
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It's time to play .....
KICK THE JAPANOPHILE!!!
*hits with a giant mallet, KICKS DOWN STAIRS~~*
Bow down to Tony, pansies! The glory is ALL MINE!!
(Wait, what's going on? What time zone am I in? NOOOOOOOOO!)
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Ano, Tony-sensei... *thwack* >:(
Hey! This is my account now! >:|
/me struggles against an enemy within.
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It's the inner scum, dood! Don't worry, we'll help!
/me throws a Prinny at Japanophile Whim
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Since we's never got the chance in game.
Jessica, play us off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy5THitqPBw&feature=related