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In one secluded corner of the internet, champions had gathered. While everyone around them obsessed over video games and numbers(oh god the numbers), these warriors of the web had come together for a different purpose. Each taking up the mantle of a favorite internet meme, these 17 individuals had come...to play MAFIA!
Welcome to the Internet Meme Anonymafia Game Topic. First let's get some rules down about this thing:
1. This is role madness mafia, keep that in mind before you make any metagame assumptions.
2. When questioned about the odds of bastard modding, Mr. Magic 8-Ball said that "All signs point to probably."
3. Votes and Unvotes must be made with the double pound sign(##) in front of them, and must be bolded. If they aren't bolded or are missing the ##, I will not count the vote.
4. Days will be 72 hours in length(or until hammer) and Nights will be 48(or until I recieve all night actions). Once a night action has been submitted via PM, it cannot be changed.
5. No Editing or deleting posts in mafia, kids.
6. Modkills will end the day. Don't make me use them.
And now, onto the player list:
Dead Players(aren't much fun):
Over 9000 - Town Meddling Kid
Yo Dawg - Town Body Double
lolcats - Scum Taboo Artist
Milhouse Is Not A Meme - Town Cassandra
Zerg Rush(kekekekekeke) - Town Skindancer
Advice Dog - Town Insomniac
COMBO BREAKER - Scum Combo Number 5
In Soviet Russia - Town Ninja Trainee
OH GOD SHANA IS HOT - Town Giant Robot
Demotivational Posters - Town Kappa Fanthing~
(I feel fantastic and I'm)Still Alive:
2girls1cup
All Your Base
Bel Air
HUEG LIKE XBOX
Rickroll(Rick Astley)
The Cake is a Lie
TOUHOU HIJACK LOL
With 17 players, it takes 9 to lynch.
Day 1 officially begins at 10AM PST, just to keep hours even, but you all can start posting now.
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(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/6795/th09cirnoportrait.jpg)
FIRST! :D :D :D
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(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/2010/chirunohs.png)
My first still counts! AndrewRogue's not a meme!
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Votecount!
Zerg Rush: (1) - O R'LYEH!?
No editing or deleting posts in Mafia, kids. Just the joke phase, so it's only worth a mod vote. But don't do it again.
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(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/1107/1174618289968.jpg)
Who deleted that? You made me look stupid! I'M NOT STUPID!
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(http://img532.imageshack.us/img532/9296/th09cirnomanual.jpg)
##Vote: Over 9000
I'M the strongest!
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(Four pool rushes almost always result in failure, a lesson we must all learn at one time or another in our transition from larvae to full fledged swarms. Remember, my fellow zerglings, to wait just a little longer then that.)
##Vote: OH GOD SHANA IS HOT
KEKEKEKEKE! NOT A MEME ACCORDING TO KNOWYOURMEME! KEKEKEKEKE!
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(http://imgur.com/3IRK3.jpg) (http://imgur.com/3IRK3.jpg) "...oof. This is one hell of a hangover to be waki- Hazel, you're still drinking?!"
(http://imgur.com/g3KRo.jpg) (http://imgur.com/g3KRo.jpg) "Those words imply that I -stopped- drinking."
(http://imgur.com/3IRK3.jpg) (http://imgur.com/3IRK3.jpg) "...whatever. Can you shut that girl up? That... is a girl, right? She's screaming too loud."
(http://imgur.com/g3KRo.jpg) (http://imgur.com/g3KRo.jpg) "First tell me I'm no-"
(http://imgur.com/xCBhm.jpg) (http://imgur.com/xCBhm.jpg) "YOU WILL TELL THEM TO BEHAVE, MISTRESS HAZEL. ...oooooh, my aching head..."
(http://imgur.com/hNRxo.jpg) (http://imgur.com/hNRxo.jpg) "Right."
Shut up ##VOTE: TOUHOU HIJACK LOL
(http://imgur.com/hNRxo.jpg) (http://imgur.com/hNRxo.jpg) "Happy now, Clarice? ...Clarice? ...Damnit, stop drooling on my floor!"
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(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/3526/312430.jpg)
##VOTE: ADVICE DOG
I'm onto something here guys
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Agreed. Goggies are always scum! This is well know to all cats.
##VOTE: Advice Dog
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KEKEKEKEKEKE!
L2P N00B. QQ DOGGY.
##UNVOTE: OH GOD SHANA IS HOT
##VOTE: ADVICE DOG
QUITTERS ARE TERRIBADS.
KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE!
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Goddamn Zerg Rushes. My scouter can't handle this!
##vote:Zerg Rush
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DIE, MONSTERS! YOU DON'T BELONG IN THIS WORLD! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M57ZnOCDjws)
##WHIP Dogs, Cats, Girlz, Russians, etc.
Votecount?
Zerg Rush: (2) - O R'LYEH!?, Over 9000
OVER 9000: (9001) - Touhou Hijacker
OH GOD SHANA IS HOT (0) - Zerg Rush
Touhou Hijack LOL (1) - 2girls1cup
Advice Dog: (3) - Advice Dog, lolcat, Zerg Rush
There are lots of hours remaining in the day. With 17 memes, it takes 9 thumbs-down buries to be removed from the Digg front page. (Except for Mr. Vegeta who requires 9009.)
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(http://i996.photobucket.com/albums/af83/Jo_ou_Ranbu/Failedmeme.jpg)
I feel like boasting.
However, I don't feel like jokevoting. <3
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(http://i47.tinypic.com/taofo2.jpg)
(##Vote: Lolcats for moddery goodness.)
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(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/8629/th09sikieikiportrait.jpg)
##VOTE: ADVICE DOG
I'm onto something here guys
(http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/7659/1202331607602.jpg)
KEKEKEKEKEKE!
L2P N00B. QQ DOGGY.
##UNVOTE: OH GOD SHANA IS HOT
##VOTE: ADVICE DOG
QUITTERS ARE TERRIBADS.
KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE!
The canine soul is aggravating, yes. However, this is not to say it is particularly sinful. In my many centuries of experience, this form of questionable tactic, as rare as it is, tends to come from those souls that are innocent yet misguided, not those that are doomed to Hell. Condemning them at first sight is not the way of the righteous.
That's right, you're a little too hasty.
##Unvote, ##Vote: Zerg Rush
Under the weight of this vote, you shall cleanse your sins!
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##VOTE: IT'S OVER 9000
not hueg liek xobox enough
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The Enrichment Centre is a place where children of all ages can have fun helping other people have fun by throwing young children into chambers of arguable safety.
However, these children must enjoy their time within the Enrichment Centre. Failure to have fun will lead to test subjects being terminated. And test subject No. 9 no longer appears to be having fun.
##Vote: TOUHOU HIJACK LOL
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Why you gotta be tellin' lies? We all know that huge as it is, the XBox is only 900! (http://gamebattles.com/forums/t/900-2120229)
##Vote: Huge like XBox
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HaI gAIs!!11 HOw R u? iM lIKe sOoOoOo ExITEd tO PlAy DIs gAMe wiT u ALL <(^.^)>. I MEen, wHO WoULdNt WAnT TO pLAy wIt SUch cuTE KITtenS LiKe m(>'.'<)m. OooHH111one!!1shift!!1 wE HAvE AN XBOX heRe TOo? i LUV XbOXs, Teh gAMes R SO muCH fUN TeE hEe ^_^. SoO N E WaYZ, I dUN UssUALY TAlk lIkE DiS, IT LiKe ONly HAppENS WHeN Im EXiTED LiEK, SO GiV mE A SeC tO CAlm doWN. So liek I also liek cake and stuff, but peanuts are way better and like, seriously. Theres like, also alot of beetles heer or sumthing. So anywayz I dun think I trust the guy who constantly reads peoples status, since liek he was bad in one of the erlier games liek.
##Vote: Over 9000
So n e wayz, I liek wunt to thank all the cool people who remixed alot of my videos so dat I culd be popular enuf to play dis game. It was so cool how he remixed alot of teh stuff! <3<3<3<3 I giv u my LOOOOOOOOOOOVE cool dude ^_^. So liek at dis point sum of u might think I'm trolling, but I assure u I is not trolling I am Boxxy you see:
(http://besteirolbr.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/boxxy1.jpg) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVbQo3IOC_A)
So n e wayz, I hop u guyz will b nice to me, cuz like last tim I talked wit people on teh net, some peoples started to stalk me, and liek my mom got scared, and said, ""You're movin' with your auntie and uncle in Bel-Air." I whistled for a cab and when it came near The license plate said fresh and it had dice in the mirror. If anything I could say that this cab was rare, but I thought, "Nah, forget it. Yo, holmes to Bel-Air!" I pulled up to the house about 7 or 8 and I yelled to the cabbie, "Yo homes smell ya later!" Looked at my kingdom I was finally there, to sit on my throne as the prince of
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Bel-Air.
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e265/aerokirt/008_1.gif)
(This was totally mod approved, avatar will change to express the correct Meme in a few hours)
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KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE!
Quitters are terribads. All a quitter does is make you waste your time by being a Bad. They see some zerglings coming and WAAAAAH WAAAAH NERF NERF QQ I R BAD CRY.
KEKEKEKEKEKEKE.
Pretending to be a Bad is as good as being a Bad. Goods should know better and real Bads can get away by pretending to be not Bads by acting like dumb not Bads.
L2PTOUHOU NOOBLET.
KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE!
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Kekekekeke-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!
##Vote: All Your Base
More like All Your Base Belong to SCUM!
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(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/429/376742.jpg)
So hey, I was going to vote for Touhou for making an overly serious case right from the off on what I saw as a joke vote (and for posting an obscenely large picture - resize is everyone's friend, especially when there are going to be dozens to scroll by), but then it turns out that the Koreans were being even more serious about an even more jokey vote. I know you like to eat my kind, but there's no need to go all rabid from something like that quite so quickly, especially in a game like this.
INB4 INTERNET MEME ANONYMAFIA IS SERIOUS BUSINESS
##UNVOTE: ADVICE DOG
##VOTE: ZERG RUSH
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(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/castlevania/images/thumb/5/51/DracSymph.jpg/90px-DracSymph.jpg)It was not by my hand I was spread about the interwebs! I was called here by newbs, who wished to pay me tribute!
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$VOTECOUNT
Zerg Rush: (4) - O R'LYEH!?, Over 9000, Touhou Hijacker, Advice Dog
OVER 9000: (9002) - Touhou Hijacker, Hueg Like XBOX, Boxxy
OH GOD SHANA IS HOT (0) - Zerg Rush
Touhou Hijack LOL (2) - 2girls1cup, The Cake is a Lie
Advice Dog: (2) - Advice Dog, lolcat, Zerg Rush
lolcat: (1)- Demotivator
Hueg Like XBOX: (1) - Rick Astley
All Your Base: (1) - C-C-Combo Breaker
There are 65 hours remaining in the day. With 17 memes, it takes 9 thumbs-down buries to be removed from the Digg front page.
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товарищи.
Союз нерушимый республик свободных
Сплотила навеки Великая Русь!
Да здравствует созданный волей народов
Единый, могучий Советский Союз!
Славься, Отечество наше свободное,
Дружбы народов надёжный оплот!
Партия Ленина — сила народная
Нас к торжеству коммунизма ведёт!
Сквозь грозы сияло нам солнце свободы,
И Ленин великий нам путь озарил:
На правое дело он поднял народы,
На труд и на подвиги нас вдохновил!
Славься, Отечество наше свободное,
Дружбы народов надёжный оплот!
Партия Ленина — сила народная
Нас к торжеству коммунизма ведёт!
В победе бессмертных идей коммунизма
Мы видим грядущее нашей страны,
И Красному знамени славной Отчизны
Мы будем всегда беззаветно верны!
Славься, Отечество наше свободное,
Дружбы народов надёжный оплот!
Партия Ленина — сила народная
Нас к торжеству коммунизма ведёт!
Слава Коммунистической Родины!!!!
В советской России, Линч голос Вам!
##Vote: No Lynch
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In AD 2010, Mafia was beginning! What happen? Someone set up us the vote!
Take off every vote! Move vote! For great justice!
##Vote: C-C-Combo Breaker
Линч голос Вам!
Линч голосует тебя/вас!, you mean.
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Смотри, я включил его в Google Translate в порядке.
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Yo dawg, I see you like Russian, so I put an English dictionary in your car so you can learn to speak English while you drive.
##Vote Soviet Russia
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OH GOD SHIKI IS HOT
she's liek ON FIRE with her OH NOEZ NOT SERIOUSNESS
she is my new waifu and u know what real men do to their waifus!
##FAITHFUL HUSBAND DECLARATION BACKHAND: TOUHOU HIJACK
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(http://i48.tinypic.com/2nt9vdk.jpg)
##Unvote: Lolcats
##Vote: Zerg Rush
srs bsns over nothing = bad. Not a strong case, just a Day One one.
In Mafia, Soviet Russia speaks English please? Is difficult enough making posts without having to translate previous ones first.
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Unfortunately, Aperture Science databases do not accept Cyrillic characters. This is not a leftover protocol from the Cold War. That is simply a lie spread around by the communists.
However, test subjects should have access to the Aperture Science Communist Communication Converter, better known nowadays as Google Translate. (http://translate.google.com/#) All he has posted so far is what appears to be the Soviet national anthem and 'look, I just run my posts through Google Translate'.
Zerg is being very unfriendly. Unfriendly players do not get cake when they win. You want cake, don't you?
My memory banks are scrambled. Are we still in the Aperture Science Salem-Endorsed Random Voting Stage? Because there seems to be a serious case rising against Zerg, but there are still random votes flying around. I would prefer not putting Zerg any closer to a lynch (and thereby risking vote abstensions) before these subjects can submit meaningful queries.
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(http://demotivatorsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Seriouscat_demotivator_600.jpg)
Vote is relatively serious, for clarification. Best case so far. This says little, and I'd be suspicious of anyone quick-lynching from here. Zerg are at L-4 still, so no risk of lynch yet.
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##:Unvote: Zerg Rush
I see nothing wrong with Russia's opening post entirely being flavor; feh. It's no higher than power level 500! Hard to scout much this early.
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Strangle: IE. Truly it's bullshit has always been over 9000!
Unvoted Zerg Rush; it looks like the joke vote phase is over and our demonic bug thingies already have several votes on them.
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(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/3993/515862.jpg)
Well gee the joke phase is over, I guess that makes it okay to do nothing and express no opinion. Uh no.
##UNVOTE: ZERG RUSH
##VOTE: OVER 9000
The Koreans rub me the wrong way, but that was just plain bad.
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Unvoted Zerg Rush; it looks like the joke vote phase is over and our demonic bug thingies already have several votes on them.
You are voting nobody and doing nothing. This is not pro-Town action. Aperture Science protocol would normally give me authority to use the Aperture Science Gentle Coercion Cattle Prod at this point.
However, since there is no sign of an Aperture Science Gentle Coercion Cattle Prod, a vote will do.
##Unvote: TOUHOU HIJACK LOL
##Vote: Over 2328 9000
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I can see why some might, misunderstand
And vote for those, who just pull ba~ack.
But do be warned that this, ain't a real te~ell.
To pick scum from bad town then you, need the fa~acts. (http://maverickphilosopher.typepad.com/.a/6a010535ce1cf6970c0120a7e4dab1970b-320wi)
Scum's gotta keep those joke votes hot
Which nine thousand sure has not
Unlike Shiki and the Comrad
He hasn't even said a thing
Just stay neutral and sing. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNmTO9t8Boo)
Which I'm thinkin' is a sign that he's ba~ad. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0&feature=related)
##Unvote: XBox, ##Vote: Soviet Russia
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<flavor>
I still not liking goggies. But time to get down to biznis.
(http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/3/2/129120168122235874.jpg)
</flavor>
##Unvote: Advice Dog
##Vote: Russia
Voting No Lynch is about as untowni as we can get. Even in jest it sux. Best to make a real vote (in propir lang, plz).
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(http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/7656/th075sakuya01small.png)
A good day to you all. Mistress Remilia has asked me to weigh in on the matters at hand in her stead, as she is quite busy. I am here and ready to serve as necessary.
I see a few curiosities, though none so subtle that others have not already picked up on them. It is a little hard to make a choice over what is worse, the active choice to be neutral (the Red) or the passive choice to be neutral (the large number). If Mistress Remilia ordered me to make a choice, though, I would definitely say the active choice is worse, as the passive choice may just be a result of lack of confidence in making a decision. (Not to say this is a good thing in any way, of course.) The Scarlet Devil Mansion officially requests the Red stop tainting our good color, as well as an explanation for why he deemed it prudent to make a choice known universally to be anti-town.
I trust the yama's decision to be made in the interests of all of us, however, and will not take her vote away from the insect masses. Not before we hear the Red's explanations, anyway.
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Much thanks to Snowfire for covering votes for me yesterday.
VOTECOUNT
Zerg Rush: (3) - Over 9000, Advice Dog, O R'LYEH!? Touhou Hijacker, Demotivator
OVER 9000: (9004) - Touhou Hijacker, Hueg Like XBOX, Boxxy, Advice Dog, The Cake is a Lie
OH GOD SHANA IS HOT (0) - Zerg Rush
Touhou Hijack LOL (2) - The Cake is a Lie, 2girls1cup, Shana
Advice Dog: (1) - Advice Dog, lolcat, Zerg Rush
lolcat: (0)- Demotivator
Hueg Like XBOX: (0) - Rick Astley
All Your Base: (1) - C-C-Combo Breaker
COMBO BREAKER: (1) - All Your Base
Soviet Russia: (3) - Yo Dawg, Rick Astley, lolcat
No lynch: (1) - Soviet Russia
Some whole bunch of hours remain in day 1. With 17 active memes, it takes 9 votes to axe someone in the face.
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KEKE! KEKE!
Lolz, nooblets, QQ about one strange, early game vote then QQ about someone voting for srs on one strange early game vote. GG.
L2CONSISTENCY, kk? Lulz, voting over srs Mafia. Game has to start sometime, nublets, and one dumb vote from a terribad is still one dumb vote from a terribad.
KEKE! KEKEKEKE! KEKEKEKE! KEKEKEKE!
If ur srs no lynch is bad and ur a quitter terribad too. Besides, in Korea, we hate Russian anyway. Just as useless as as self vote, and slightly worse looking. Might as well tech pure medic, mirite?
CA-KEKE! CA-KEKEKEKE!
lol, wimp. Zerg rushes are srs bsns, as are mafia. If Apeture Science Vessel Cake Liar have case u push case, u don't just go 'lolz look he losing and bad so I not vote cause we'll accidentally day one lynch.'
KEKEKEKE! KEKEKEKE! KEKE! KEKE! KEKE! KEKEKEKE! KEKE! KEKE! KEKE! KEKEKEKE! KEKE! KEKE! KEKE! KEKE! KEKEKEKE! KEKE!
Opinionless noob looks worst to me. OVER 9000? Moar like OVER-LY USELESS, mirite? He's all "u all are going on the attack, so I gonna tech up like scrub in meanwhile, kk?" L2haveopinion.
##Unvote: Advice Dog
##Vote: OVER 9000
Still like Advice Dog less then siege tanks for lulz bad dumb vote, but like OVER 9000 less for lulz lack of opinion. Reds are also bads for not wanting to play game and need to explain themselves 2.
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(http://imgur.com/hNRxo.jpg) (http://imgur.com/hNRxo.jpg) "Right. Clarice is still out, so I'll be the one commenting here. And, seriously, people? Laughing off Advice Dog as a - hold on, what's the term... Jokevote! And then going off and accusing Soviet Russia? I mean, don't get me wrong, no supporter of communism here, no sirree, but that strikes me as rather questionable thinking.
"Of the people that did that: Rick Astley seems to sing about how deplorable Over 9000 is, but then votes... Soviet Russia. Uh huh. lolcats, in addition to being the bad news bear of allergies everywhere, votes Soviet Russia, but at least they also found Advice Dog suspicious. Both seem to me to be jokevote thingies, tho. Zerg Rush is terribad- I mean Zerg Rush is at least commenting there, too. Of the three, then, I think I can vote one meme in good conscience to the Great Axe, The Eternal (GATE)."
##Unvote: TOUHOU HIJACK LOL
##Vote: Rick Astley
"Besides, Jameson did that meme better. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go fill a cup up and pour it over Miss Sleeping Beauty here-
"... You perverts."
(http://imgur.com/tTbM4.jpg) (http://imgur.com/tTbM4.jpg)"Oh, and one more thing. Over 9000 may be suspicious for not having a vote down, but someone else pulled the same thing. Milhouse is Not A Meme Is A Meme, anyone? While I'll agree Over 9000 is more suspicious due to circumstances - Milhouse being firmly ensconced in Jokevote Time, for one, while for Over 9000 it's arguable not, and they could easily have chosen to put their vote elsewhere. But for now, I want want answers out of one man. RICK ASTLEY. First, I will woo him.
"...and if that fails I'll just kidnap him and get the information out of him. Mebbe shave his head bald, see if he stops singing."
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lol, wimp. Zerg rushes are srs bsns, as are mafia. If Apeture Science Vessel Cake Liar have case u push case, u don't just go 'lolz look he losing and bad so I not vote cause we'll accidentally day one lynch.'
Placing you too close to lynch would give test subjects an excuse to refrain from voting your case. There are several subjects who have still not commented, and keeping you distant from the Aperture Science Fifteen-Hundred-Megawatt Super-Comfortable Electric Chair means people cannot make their first post something along the lines of 'Zerg is bad, but he's at L-whatever so I'm not voting'. The vote on Touhou Hijack was semi-serious because at the time her jump on Zerg seemed reactionary. Given his (their?) recent AtE though, I am uncertain again. I will think it over as I dine on this lovely cake which no-one else can have. <3
Russia's No Lynch processes as a jokevote to me. 9000 is worse for jokevoting, then unvoting and doing nothing.
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Jist to clarify the sickmeme's comment about my votes, the goggie was jokevote (*evil Iz to goggie, tho, goggies evile*), but my vote to Russia was a pressure vote to actually move out of a jokevote that is not town-friendly. When you don't know who all is scum and who is town, voting for anyone is fine for your first vote. It's sort of why the jokevote phase exists. But a No Lynch is never town-helpful. Just wanting that jokevote off the board now that serius bsns has begun.
Plus, I'm all fer da memspeak, but zerg, english a bit moar, pleez. I find it hard to read yer posts.
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Don't want to break your sweet, sweet heart, Hazel. So here's my thinking for all to see.
I don't find 9k+ to be that bad. Mostly, it's because he's at least noticing that we've moved on. But Shiki, Cats (non lol), and Comrad Ivan there all seem to be missing the point. (http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0001JXPSO.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg)
Now, why Boris instead of Moose and Squirrel? (http://brewpublic.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/bullwinklerocky2.jpg) Because there's nothing in his post. Just some singing. Take a look at everyone else, they're even loading up the bandwagons fast and furious, and this guy refuses to do even that.
Though, yeah, thanks for pointing out Milhouse. About as bad, just not as many snazzy links. (http://knowyourmeme.com/i/948/original/in-soviet-russia.png)
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(http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/952/th075patchouli01small.png)
Hazel, I believe Astley's attempts at aural wordplay have made his communication sufficiently unclear that you misunderstand what he says. Astley does not condemn 9001; rather, he posits that scum's best interest would be to maintain the "joke vote phase" and then declares that 9001 does not do that. By my estimate, he is voting Soviet Russia for Soviet Russia's continuation of nonseriousness and No Lynch vote. I will admit that his post took several study sessions to understand fully, but he does not appear to be guilty of the crimes you accuse him of.
A ninja by the man in question confirming my suspicions. It is always nice to see when one is correct, even when it happens as many times as it does for me.
Wait, my records indicate that the entity known as "Hazel" was playing in the last game as well. Is there some unfamiliar sorcery behind her return and apparent metamorph from the lagomorph form? This curiosity requires further research.
Cake, while I suppose it is possible that Soviet Russia's vote is his own continuation of the joke vote phase, it is atill anti-town behavior, as the cat has already explained. I also take some issue with this:
Placing you too close to lynch would give test subjects an excuse to refrain from voting your case. There are several subjects who have still not commented, and keeping you distant from the Aperture Science Fifteen-Hundred-Megawatt Super-Comfortable Electric Chair means people cannot make their first post something along the lines of 'Zerg is bad, but he's at L-whatever so I'm not voting'.
Is this not exactly what you yourself are doing? There is no logical reason to be afraid of voting for anyone when the vote does not push them to at least the L-1 threshhold, as a coordinated lynch rush would be spotted immediately and rightfully burned. Your vote would have only placed Zerg Rush at L-3, which is no major worry, and even leaves open another vote window before we start wandering into worrisome territory. Hypocrisy is bad. ##Unvote, ##Vote: The Cake Is A Lie
lolcat, your catness rating is 91/96.
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There were four votes on Zerg Rush during the jokevote phase. That kind of train forming that quickly made me uncomfortable; thus the switch. That human loving soviet may have made a bad, bad choice with a joke no lynch vote, but it was still his first vote in the game. So meh, I donno. Tho, the game being out of the joke phase is good, as no scouter made can translate flavor text into meaningful contributions.
Is this not exactly what you yourself are doing? There is no logical reason to be afraid of voting for anyone when the vote does not push them to at least the L-1 threshhold, as a coordinated lynch rush would be spotted immediately and rightfully burned. Your vote would have only placed Zerg Rush at L-3, which is no major worry, and even leaves open another vote window before we start wandering into worrisome territory. Hypocrisy is bad. ##Unvote, ##Vote: The Cake Is A Lie
Someone picked up nearly half the lynch votes they needed in joke time; it's enough for that to build into something out of thin air. I can't say I'm thrilled with Zerg Rush's heavy use of slang, as it makes makes for difficult reading. That still doesn't mean I want to put that kind of pressure in play before everyone's had a chance to weigh in and post in the non joke phase.
I'd like to give a little more time before calling out lurkers for hiding under the scouter, but the game's a moving! It does town no good if we sit and argue about who's power level is mightier while those of less mighty town levels sit and watch.
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*I'd like to give a little more time before calling out lurkers/people still in the joke vote phase for hiding under the scouter, to get the game a'moving. Blah.
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(http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/1053/evilmilhouseisnotameme.jpg)
Sorta sums up how my head is currently.
Okay, let's start: Soviet Russia, is the usage of a language just about none of us can understand a straight-up posting restriction? I'll assume not -quite-, because having a player we can't understand ever without resorting to Google Translator would plain suck - but this is a bit of a step below even stuff like Boxxyposting. Also, I have to note on this from the Slingshot Girls:
"Oh, and one more thing. Over 9000 may be suspicious for not having a vote down, but someone else pulled the same thing. Milhouse is Not A Meme Is A Meme, anyone? While I'll agree Over 9000 is more suspicious due to circumstances - Milhouse being firmly ensconced in Jokevote Time, for one, while for Over 9000 it's arguable not, and they could easily have chosen to put their vote elsewhere.
Way to overread into me not liking jokevoting. I always hated jokevote phase, and don't like simply placing votes just for placeholdering when there's absolutely -nothing- going on - like it just about always does in the earliest stages of day 1 jokevoting. Now I look bad simply because I didn't place a vote in a phase where just about every movement is nearly meaningless until somebody screws up and makes for the easy train at the worst day in the game? I'll admit I could've been more contributive by now, but I was hoping the day 1 syndrome of sucking ass, joke phase or no joke phase, would cut back a bit after the first 24 hours or so. It kinda didn't, so may as well dive in anyway. At least, joke phase is over.
And, if this doesn't make it clear, I don't think Over 9000's movement is a reason to go hysterical about either - doesn't look great, sure, but the voting drives feel mostly led by mass hysteria right now, and that's just fucking -great- when you're trying to actually catch scum, much like sprinkling lemon and pepper on a wound is great when you want it to stop hurting.
So, for general thoughts: I have no idea on how to read Zerg Rush going KEKEKEKEKEKEKE on Advice Dog's jokevote other than "dear christ prozac exists okay". It's scary that a train formed so quickly over that, but day 1 cases. Slingshot Girls' case on Rickroll has been mostly clarified as a misread. Besides that, only Over 9000/Cake/Touhoulolz/cheezburger/Dog/Zerg have been even active besides people already mentioned. I'm just not happy with any of the trains presented right now, but I'd be even less happy with a no-lynch day. Which, by the way, I'd like Soviet Russia to clarify whether he actually meant as a joke or not - and what does he hope to accomplish with a no-lynch if this is serious.
##VOTE: Soviet Russia
Consider this a pressure vote, if anything else.
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Is this not exactly what you yourself are doing? There is no logical reason to be afraid of voting for anyone when the vote does not push them to at least the L-1 threshhold, as a coordinated lynch rush would be spotted immediately and rightfully burned. Your vote would have only placed Zerg Rush at L-3, which is no major worry, and even leaves open another vote window before we start wandering into worrisome territory. Hypocrisy is bad.
At that point several test subjects had yet to produce even a jokevote, let alone a genuine vote. Milhouse at least posted, but there was nothing of the Rapper of Redundancies or Shana's stalker. Forcing a D1 case which could easily have been an effort to get the day started threatens to break the Aperture Science 'Speak Sense and Stay Standing' protocol and to reduce the day to 1 case.
On that note, the players mentioned above have yet to offer useful contributions. I may still have some cake crumbs to offer you if you post something useful.
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There were four votes on Zerg Rush during the jokevote phase. That kind of train forming that quickly made me uncomfortable; thus the switch. That human loving soviet may have made a bad, bad choice with a joke no lynch vote, but it was still his first vote in the game. So meh, I donno. Tho, the game being out of the joke phase is good, as no scouter made can translate flavor text into meaningful contributions.
Someone picked up nearly half the lynch votes they needed in joke time; it's enough for that to build into something out of thin air. I can't say I'm thrilled with Zerg Rush's heavy use of slang, as it makes makes for difficult reading. That still doesn't mean I want to put that kind of pressure in play before everyone's had a chance to weigh in and post in the non joke phase.
So what, if anything, are you taking out of that? If it was enough to get you to pull back and go "WHOA!" to everyone, who or what do you think in the train was scummy?
I agree with Milhouse that pulling off isn't scummy, but making a big deal about it and not saying why it's scummy at least bears asking about, especially when chaining into a token lurker poke, so C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!
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Смотри, я включил его в Google Translate в порядке.
(http://macrochan.org/images/G/C/GCKFNP66QTTVQMHUNXI2ACRJ2U3YP2QI.jpeg)
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The Rapper of Redundancy should comment on something useful besides the communist's apparent inability to speak English. Ignorance of the current Zerg/9000 situation is not cake-earning material.
And where is test subject Boxxy/Bel-Air?
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Plus, I'm all fer da memspeak, but zerg, english a bit moar, pleez. I find it hard to read yer posts.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_3IjRgoGWUBo/SfeFb3XePpI/AAAAAAAAAI4/UvX3Bts0K70/s400/irony.jpg)
As for everything else:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_g3YUxj9bf7U/SweCrP1lW1I/AAAAAAAABnQ/BS7-SFsWV2E/s1600/1258781672752.jpg)
New Comments: I have none.
Dawg: Input? What input?
Lurking: Being active without saying anything useful at least gives the impression of contribution.
Problem?: ur doin it wrong
Dead to the World: PrinceBoxxy, AYB, Shiki-Fan. Where are they?
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(http://i47.tinypic.com/2dcj2uc.jpg)
To clarify, points from Dawg -> Problem? were aimed at Dawg. Lurking point is why he looks worse than the others mentioned afterwards.
As for 9001 Zergs, I'm seeing nothing more than a basic Town/Town Day One argument. Looking towards scummy behaviour seems better now than taking sides there.
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http://www.linuxscrew.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/blue_screen_demotivator.jpeg (Linking due to triple-post length.)
Above poster aimed at self. Forgot to:
##Unvote, ##Vote: Yo Dawg
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C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!
Agreed on Dawg's input so far, so...
##Unvote: All Your Base
##Vote: Dawg
But while it may seem town vs town to you Motivational Posterman, Over 9000 answering my questions would still help.
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Seconding the point on Yo Dawg: why did you feel the need to take a crack at Soviet Russia's Russian, then do it again sixteen hours later, without commenting on anything else that has transpired in those 16 hours, despite notable issues from our good friends the Zerglings and the Super Saiyan with the Scouter.
##Unvote
##Vote: Yo Dawg
OVER 9000 looks bad but I'm not sure how to read it, at the time our good friends the Zerglings had a staggering four votes on them, which is L-5, which is nowhere near danger for a lynch. The complete absence of any analysis of the other people on Zerg Rush's wagon, as well as the complete absence of any place to now shift your vote to looks pretty bad. That being said, it seems much too awkward for a scum to do, and just seems a bit like a daft move overall for a scum to do. Really it's more "what" than anything. Considering we are out of the jokevote phase, it would be great if OVER 9000's scouter could perhaps do some wagonalysis on Zerg Rush or at least get out a decent case on someone, soon.
Not sure what Milhouse is saying about Zerg Rush's Advice Dog vote: it's well within RVS. In general, I don't see anything wrong with Zerg Rush's posts, really.
Contributions from Milhouse! Good ones! Contributions from Aperture Science Labs! Ones for which I must question what our fellow malevolent, misanthropic AI means by cake crumbs for posting something useful.
And of course, there are the lurkers, who all need to post, and the sooner the better.
And it seems that my post got cut by these fighters with an ancient fighting style known as "ninja": no real issues with the Breaker of Combos, but I do wish he could contribute more. As for the posters which Reduce Intrinsic Motivation, why do you think 9001 Zergs is necessarily Town vs. Town? The argument is irrelevant, yes, but you imply that neither of them has done anything scummy beyond the argument. Is this necessarily true, and if yes, please clarify why you think this.
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you guys just don't know how high-maintenance a waifu is, or you'd never call this lurking.
case on over9000 is UNINTERESTING. may have no opinion. sign of badness, not scumness. it is that and the weird hypocrisy earlier, which PATCHOULI-SAN OH GOD PYJAMAS ARE HOT pointed out that has me going 'oh the cake is a lie. er. that's liar.' as far as I can tell there is no zerg/9000 situation worth talking about either except in relation to those surrounding it. still, propogating stupid earlygame cases? sounds scummy to me!
##UNVOTE OF AMIABLE DIVORCE, ##PULSATING RIPCORD LIGHTNING PINNACLE: Cake
dawg lacking content is pretty bad I admit.
all your bases last post is very reportery and preys on a lurker, how lazy. don't make me get into YOUR base and start killing YOUR dudes okay? ACTUALLY
##UNVOTE OF EXCEEDED GRAVITY, ##THE WISDOM OF INEXORABLE ANTS: AllYourBase
Suddenly, english!
Seriously I don't like his post there. Almost everything that's happened so far is pretty dismissable in the long run, but I cannot condone piling on a lurker here, bad as dawg is; he's rehashing 'look how bad over 9000 is' without really adding anything new (and like Cake before him is directing him towards early stupid), and pretty much everything after that is filler.
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Ones for which I must question what our fellow malevolent, misanthropic AI means by cake crumbs for posting something useful.
This was flavour, before anyone ends up misinterpreting it. If my posts become too flavourful and hard to interpret there are several back-up plans in place.
The case on the Silent Dawg is strong, but 9000's 'Here's the reasons I took my vote away, I'm going to make no mention of anything else and I'm STILL not putting my vote anywhere because people aren't voting yet' gives me enough reason to maintain my vote. Protip: If you do not vote, you are setting a bad example to the children and they will not vote either. Then no-one wins, and the cake is ruined. No-one wants that.
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(http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/93/560728.jpg)
"But Mr. Advice Dog, I'm too scared to let someone stick at L-5, especially when one of the votes is from their own stupid mistake. Surely all emerging trains should be immediately stopped, for fear we might harm someone?"
Not only is o9k's actual response to the argument bad and unhelpful, what's worse is that it completely ignores the main charge of saying nothing at all. Oh, and then still not actually saying anything outside of defence. Still no vote. Day one is day one and all, but actively hanging back quite so hard? Those bollocks smell far more of bad scum play than confused town play. Don't just wave it off with some 'bad town' crap with a stench like this - I'm the one with the sensitive nose here.
(The quote goes for The Cake Is A Lie as well, on which less immediately important issue I agree with the Hijack)
Yeah, sure, Dawg similar but less present. Less deliberate, more random. Bothers me less so long as it doesn't keep going. Can't see why some people see this as worse than o9k. Latest shiny thing to pass by, I guess.
The commie and Milhouse are patently in the realms of joke voting. Not voting and voting no lynch are easily in the same category of stupidity as a suicide vote within the joke phase, so go figure exactly how much I'm holding those against them. At least the Zerg Rush is consistent there.
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Да, товарищи!
In Soviet Russia, we not speak language. Glorious mother tongue speaks us! Comrades, comrades, brothers and sisters, let us join together in Marxist harmony. In normal Mafia game, town lynch scum, but in role madness, lynch scums town, Да!
No lynch is Communist way, is way of letting all seeing KGB do state-supporting duty. In dirty Capitalist pig-dog game, No Lynch is anti-town, Да, but when the wealth of roles is distributed equally among the people, it is our duty to stand together. Think, товарищи, think on what happens with day 1 lynches! Citizens descend on one person, person claims their proper role in Soviet state, citizens switch to new target at last minute, such is life in Amerikkka. Is messy, is not likely to find Capitalist spies, gives CIA intelligence on Soviet roles. No lynch and strong brotherhood, we will stand together, then act with information after night of vodka, Да?
Is best strategy? Maybe. Maybe not. Beautiful communist community can discuss. Is strategy valid and worthy of consideration? Да, Да. Is not inherently anti-state, in role madness game.
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(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/8870/560926.jpg)
Okay, no seriously Commie, you're going to want to form some actual opinions or you will be gone. Yes it is anti-town, and town isn't giving up its best weapon. Let's mass roleclaim while we're at it.
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The commie and Milhouse are patently in the realms of joke voting. Not voting and voting no lynch are easily in the same category of stupidity as a suicide vote within the joke phase, so go figure exactly how much I'm holding those against them. At least the Zerg Rush is consistent there.
No offense taken. But I'll just note that accusing people of being retarded/playing badly because they jokevote wrong is impolite at best and downright demeaning at worst.
Back to the world of tangent memetica: the main problem with Zerg's initial rush -right now- is that, after the kekekekekeke, he also suddenly completely disappeared. Whatever case he needed to deflect here, he certainly didn't bother much beyond the "OHGOD SUICIDAL VOTE IN JOKEPHASE TERRIBAD" excellence we've seen earlier, so we're in the same stage as we were regarding -him- - only now he gets the added "benefit" of borderline lurking as of now, so it doesn't do him any favors anyway. To CATS: what I felt about Zerg was that he overreacted like mad over Advice Dog's jokevote.
As for 9000.001, I'm honestly now quite a bit less trigger-happy in defending him, but my radar just can't decide here: prior experience tells me this is as likely to be a strongly poor town move as it is to be a low-committance scum move, and scum is at least as likely to hide behind hardcore lurking day 1. That said, I'd like to at least see if 9000.001 ekes in actual content in this debacle before deciding anywhere else.
Dawg honestly feels like he's playing lazily as fuck (which by itself. Bad, but we have plenty of stupid to wade through right now as it stands, and the day isn't anywhere near over -still-. If he persists on the sin, of course, he's bound to end up in the lynch wagon, but all the cases here feel like they need a straight push.
P.S.: Shikinoa Fangirl, what exactly is so scummy about CATS' post that you saw? Feels like trying to push into some magical "I DON'T LIKE YOUR FACE" territory, and I'd honestly want you to elaborate here.
And ninja'd by Soviet Russia. I really have no words for that other than it's either a very green townie or it's the worst scum maneuver I've ever saw. Advice Dog took the meme out of my mouth.
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Shiki: why can you not condone voting for a lurker at this point in the game? Also, the points on O9K have all been rehashed to death, they are bad, he is bad, they do not add up in about 14 different ways for either alignment (you might notice I'm actually quite puzzled as to whether this action is a potential scumtell or not, principally because it's just so *bad* and nonsensical) there really is nothing more to do until O9K actually posts again.
Soviet Motherland: so your rationale is that there is no point for a D1 lynch, because "roles" (which are not publicly known) can be used to take care of potential citizens instead of town-consensus? Not to mention the fact that it's a role madness game so roles have a good chance of being interfered with. Not to mention: do you only advocate this on D1? If yes, what's so special about D1 and what if we don't get any flips? If no, what game are we playing because at that point we're certainly not playing mafia anymore.
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But I'll just note that accusing people of being retarded/playing badly because they jokevote wrong is impolite at best and downright demeaning at worst.
As an aside yes, I agree. There's a reason why I waited for a crazy game like this to pull my suicide joke in, and I still found myself disappointed at how that still managed to draw fervent ankle biting.
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V-V-V-VOTE COUNT!!!!
VOTECOUNT
Zerg Rush: (1) - Over 9000, Advice Dog, Touhou Hijacker, Demotivator, O R'LYEH!?
OVER 9000: (9005) - Touhou Hijacker, Hueg Like XBOX, Boxxy, Advice Dog, The Cake is a Lie, Zerg Rush
OH GOD SHANA IS HOT (0) - Zerg Rush
Touhou Hijack LOL (0) - The Cake is a Lie, 2girls1cup, Shana
Advice Dog: (0) - Advice Dog, lolcat, Zerg Rush
lolcat: (0)- Demotivator
Hueg Like XBOX: (0) - Rick Astley
All Your Base: (1) - C-C-Combo Breaker, Shana
COMBO BREAKER: (0) - All Your Base
Soviet Russia: (4) - Yo Dawg, Rick Astley, lolcat, Milhouse
Rick Astley: (1) - 2girls1cup
The Cake is a Lie: (1) - Shana, Touhou Hijacker
Yo Dawg: (3) - Demotivator, COMBO BREAKER, All Your Base
No lynch: (1) - Soviet Russia
Some whole bunch of hours remain in day 1. With 17 active memes, it takes 9 votes to axe someone in the face.
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Milhouse: It is reportery, look at how he asks silly questions, is sort-of-maybe-rolefishing (but if he's not doing that it's filler which is as bad), gives praise/comments on 'look those guys are DOING STUFF.'
It encourages looking at some tired candidates for lynch who happened to be straddled with d1 miasma, and is focused on silly things. I will also quote myself, I thought it was obvious but it bears repeating.
he's rehashing 'look how bad over 9000 is' without really adding anything new (and like Cake before him is directing him towards early stupid), and pretty much everything after that is filler.
AYB: Because lurking like that is dumb, not scummy, so uh yeah I'm not seeing the hunting power there. yeah I know 'but you can excuse anything like that' but it's true, scum know this. Everyone knows it! Why would people consciously choose to do this? Why are scum more likely to than town? I have no answers to these questions.
soviet: are you serious
you're serious aren't you
jesus
uh.
we cannot agree to this or it undermines like all the discussion we have on who's scummy and who's not. I don't believe it's worthy of consideration at all, no. let's not rely on roles.
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So what, if anything, are you taking out of that? If it was enough to get you to pull back and go "WHOA!" to everyone, who or what do you think in the train was scummy?
I agree with Milhouse that pulling off isn't scummy, but making a big deal about it and not saying why it's scummy at least bears asking about, especially when chaining into a token lurker poke, so C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!
Getting a fair sized train started on day one when we were still in joke vote phase strikes me as unwise, especially when we haven't had people post more than a single post in day one. Tho yeah, hard to pin much down on it other than dislike for people racking up heavy votes on day one.
No lynch is Communist way, is way of letting all seeing KGB do state-supporting duty. In dirty Capitalist pig-dog game, No Lynch is anti-town, Да, but when the wealth of roles is distributed equally among the people, it is our duty to stand together. Think, товарищи, think on what happens with day 1 lynches! Citizens descend on one person, person claims their proper role in Soviet state, citizens switch to new target at last minute, such is life in Amerikkka. Is messy, is not likely to find Capitalist spies, gives CIA intelligence on Soviet roles. No lynch and strong brotherhood, we will stand together, then act with information after night of vodka, Да?
It's a game where, and I quote the mod,1. This is role madness mafia, keep that in mind before you make any metagame assumptions.
2. When questioned about the odds of bastard modding, Mr. Magic 8-Ball said that "All signs point to probably."
Every time we no lynch we don't clear a single townie. NOt only that, it's a good way for scum to lurk day one and to avoid providing any sort of content. The odds range from good to 'Nappa just got owned hardcore' that Scum has a very good way to interfere with night rolls. No lynch makes some very strong assumptions about the metagame that the mod himself told the players not to make, so I can't see this making any sense.
Seriously I don't like his post there. Almost everything that's happened so far is pretty dismissable in the long run, but I cannot condone piling on a lurker here, bad as dawg is; he's rehashing 'look how bad over 9000 is' without really adding anything new (and like Cake before him is directing him towards early stupid), and pretty much everything after that is filler.
I don't see anything bad in his post, he's rightly pointing out mistakes (Mine included) and poking Dawg for fishy behavior. It's day one, there isn't going to be any long term impact until we get a lynch and a nightkill to build some information.
Going to branch off in a slightly different direction.
##Vote: Boxxy. Content please. It's been over a day since you've posted and that was a single post in the jokevote phase.
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(http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7641/swrsuika.jpg)
Someone picked up nearly half the lynch votes they needed in joke time; it's enough for that to build into something out of thin air. I can't say I'm thrilled with Zerg Rush's heavy use of slang, as it makes makes for difficult reading. That still doesn't mean I want to put that kind of pressure in play before everyone's had a chance to weigh in and post in the non joke phase.
God, whuzzis? I can't tell whatcha sayin' here! You tellin' the bookworm that someone gatherin' a bunch 'a votes means they could get rushlynched? Hahaha! You must be drunker'n I am if you are! Hahaha!
At that point several test subjects had yet to produce even a jokevote, let alone a genuine vote. Milhouse at least posted, but there was nothing of the Rapper of Redundancies or Shana's stalker. Forcing a D1 case which could easily have been an effort to get the day started threatens to break the Aperture Science 'Speak Sense and Stay Standing' protocol and to reduce the day to 1 case.
Dun get this neether! "Reduce the day to 1 case"? What? Dun understandya at all! Buncha votes on one dude aint gonna make everyone else meaningless!
What's witcha two and bein' afraid of a little gatherin'? YOU SAYIN' THE POWER TO GATHER IS BAD?! I might just go'n'tell Yugi on you, an' she's a meaner drunk than I am!
Yo Dawg, I herdya like Mafia so I put an opinion in yer post so you can vote while you play! EXCEPT I DIDN'T! AHAHAHA!
Okay guys, wanna here somethin' else that's REAL funny? Cuz I gots anotha one! Anyone notice the Cake gettin' people lookin' his way..FOR FLAVOR ISSUES? HAHAHAHAHA! Thank you, ladies, ya been a great audience! Now whoze got da booze? I need a refill!
Ohoho, the gatherin'-hater is back fa' more, eh? Just a lurka' prod outta you? That's weak! You of all people should know about needing POWER!
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Shiki: lurking not a scumtell in general, sure. At the same time you have to wonder why Yo Dawg would come in here again and post an image replicating the same nonsense post he made earlier, because it means he actually thought to log onto the game and had enough time to post something, so why post that instead of content?
As for the O9K point: someone acting pathologically dumb D1 is much, much more likely to be town than scum, imho, because: A) even the dumbest scum would know that "needlessly attracting attention to self = bad", B) they have buddies which can tell them "don't do that, that's idiotic". Really, the issue I have with him is not that his move is not scummy but rather that it is so overtly scummy it no longer makes sense for scum to do that. But again this discussion serves no purpose until O9K posts something of use, so yeah.
I am not sure why "oh look these guys are DOING STUFF!" is somehow bad, at all? That makes no sense.
A Ninja! Or rather, OVER 9000 of them!:
You do realise that D1 is going to result in a lynch? (no we are not following Soviet Russia's plan that is idiotic and requires town to give up their best weapon, etc) This typically requires people to rack up votes on themselves. The main issue that I have though is why is L-5 somehow "excessive"? Especially with this many hours left in the day. There really was absolutely no danger of Zerg Rush getting turbolynched, so why the needless paranoia?
...aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand I don't like that last paragraph at all. Yes it's D1 but that statement is still a bit unsettling in how it feels as if you're claiming that who we lynch today does not matter at all because we don't really have flips and/or evidence on anyone, which yeah. D1 often results in a mislynch in mafia, but there's no reason why we should just resign ourselves to one always occuring and not at least try to do proper post analysis and form proper, coherent cases.
...................................................................................aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand you go on to vote for a lurker. Who has lurked for over a day and thus is someone the mod will likely be yelling at right now. Combined with zero useful analysis of anyone. You know, I think I'm starting to see Shiki's point here.
##Unvote
##Vote: Over 9000
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Edit: before anyone gets on my case about how "first you claim dumb playing is not inheritly scummy and then you vote for O9K", his nonsensical unvote-ZergRush-at-L-5 move is just purely dumb which imho means nothing alignmentwise with a slight lean towards town, but his followup post answers nothing, provides nothing useful at all and then votes in a direction completely nonconducive for determining alignment, i.e. it falls into the territory of active lurking, which is scummy behaviour.
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(http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/5789/561200.jpg)
Any advance on three (o9k, Commies, Dawg)? Best solution to this mess so far, guaranteed.
(But really, o9k is actually starting to worry me, he's playing quite so overly textbook bad scummy)
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God, whuzzis? I can't tell whatcha sayin' here! You tellin' the bookworm that someone gatherin' a bunch 'a votes means they could get rushlynched? Hahaha! You must be drunker'n I am if you are! Hahaha!
Just that someone getting that high a lynch in the jokephase isn't good.This really feels like a mountain out of a molehill at this point, and I know about something minor being turned into an internet legend.
Ohoho, the gatherin'-hater is back fa' more, eh? Just a lurka' prod outta you? That's weak! You of all people should know about needing POWER!
Lurker prod's the best bet at this point; sitting for a day doing nothing is good. There is plenty of power is going after those who don't post!
...aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand I don't like that last paragraph at all. Yes it's D1 but that statement is still a bit unsettling in how it feels as if you're claiming that who we lynch today does not matter at all because we don't really have flips and/or evidence on anyone, which yeah. D1 often results in a mislynch in mafia, but there's no reason why we should just resign ourselves to one always occuring and not at least try to do proper post analysis and form proper, coherent cases.
...................................................................................aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand you go on to vote for a lurker. Who has lurked for over a day and thus is someone the mod will likely be yelling at right now. Combined with zero useful analysis of anyone. You know, I think I'm starting to see Shiki's point here.
Where are you getting that from? Who we lynch matters a hell of a lot. I don't think piling up votes early in the day is ever good. I'm not sure what else to say, as I'm repeating myself on this point.
There's never anything wrong with voting for someone who's not posting. *Shrug* LaL's almost always the way to go if you can't think of much else.
Edit: before anyone gets on my case about how "first you claim dumb playing is not inheritly scummy and then you vote for O9K", his nonsensical unvote-ZergRush-at-L-5 move is just purely dumb which imho means nothing alignmentwise with a slight lean towards town, but his followup post answers nothing, provides nothing useful at all and then votes in a direction completely nonconducive for determining alignment, i.e. it falls into the territory of active lurking, which is scummy behaviour.
You mean Combo breaker's one post after joke vote time prodding me, or Boxxy's zero posts after it? There's only so many ways to say someone is lurking. Milhouse reads town but has slightly rude tint to his posts, not that it especially matters. Zerg rush did vanish again, but that could easily just be time zone differential. I can't see anything wrong with prodding someone who's been idle for an entire day, mod poke or no.
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KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE!
Man, srsly. You accuse us humble Zerglings of SRS BSNS... Some of you all are really reacting ridiculously to me voting on Advice Dog's suicide vote.
On the subject of my vote on Advice Dog:
1. This is Day One, where you don't have that much to go on and thus need to go after what you do find to get out of the joke vote phase.
2. That, regardless of joke vote intent or not, self votes are particularly scummy because they create a stupid WIFOM situation.
3. That I wasn't attacking Advice Dog that harshly or demean your play. I was playing a character. You know, Zerg Rushing + Blizzard gamer?
4. "Woe is me, martyr'd by those nasty little Zerglings" is not a particularly reassuring stance to take. You had a fun joke vote. That's fine! Its a fun game! Don't get your rainbow in a bunch because your joke is still inherently scummy and you get called out on it and I pursued a case.
Honestly, that last post strikes me as particularly scummy, to be perfectly honest. It really seems to be holding up a martyr flag, which is totally unnecessary at this point.
I do find it oddly curious how hard people came down on me for picking a scummy subject to start conversation from. Is the joke vote stage totally sacred or something? I see scummy, I go after scummy. All pretending to be scum, even jokingly, does is obfuscate the situation. "Well, of course he must be town, because scum would never do that, but that means that scum could do this and..."
So, in summation: lulz, QQ butthurt nublet. L2PLAYMAFIA. Day one cases, lulz.
KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE!
Cake's position is less stable then a drone rush, in my humble opinion. Not voting to avoid other people not voting is kind of silly. Besides, people can still strongly express opinions without actually having a vote down. They can also make alternate cases and put the votes to use there! By your own logic, people could get away with not weighing in for the same reason you got away with not weighing in. It also occurs to me that, looking back, you don't... actually... have anything to say about me/the people on me/my stance. You just mention the voting thing and leave it at that.
That's more suspicious then a little red dot in the middle of my base.
KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE!
In Soviet Russia... you get Zerg Rushed and die because you can't hunt scum without lynching. By the time you get to work, I've already won via MASS CARRIERS... and I'm not even Protoss. If there is no lynch, what exactly do we have to discuss on Day 2? We'll be in the exact same position as Day 1, except with one less townie. The only thing I can guess you are suggesting is we all mass roleclaim and try to puzzle it out from there. Which is... of questionable use, presuming a well designed game.
This plan is... not very good.
The lack of contribution about anything else is also not a good sign. Advice Dog following up on this generally makes me feel a bit better about him. Just a bit.
##Nyssus: Soviet Russia
If you don't provide any real content soon, there will likely be Zerglings inside your base, killing your dudes.
KEKEKEKEKEKEKE!
Lurkers desperately need to post. HUEG LIKE ULTRALISK has been MIA too, right? Lurkers buried in the middle of nowhere are useless Lurkers. Hydralisks > You.
Honestly, I find it kinda suspicious that HUEG LIKE ULTRALISK is pretty much the lurkiest lurker that has lurked thus far and no one seems to be acknowledging his presence whatsoever. Like, at all. People do remember he is in the game, right?
KEKEKEKEKEKEKE!
Honestly, there was no danger of quick lynching me. Nobody is faster then a Zerg Rush and, if they are, they are clearly cheating. Which means they are not town.
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This is moar like it. Much more convo to go over now.
Zerg: Still having trouble reading your posts for content with the flavor making it hard to decipher, but much better. Thanks.
Lurking: I belong to the club that finds it bad behavior, but not scummy. Real life happens to scum and town alike. Just because someone lurks is not a tell of either sort. Now, having said that, just because it's not scummy behavior doesn't mean that I think they should get free passes. They should be pushed to provide content when they do post and to post as often as possible. In the grand scheme of things, I find voting and hunting lurkers to be preferable to taking shots entirely in the dark, but always as a secondary to going after scum. If I think someone is scum or I even just have a feeling that they're off in some way, I'll always go for them rather than lurkers. Barring any feelings of scumminess, though, lurkers are just as valid a target as any other when no one stands out. Luckily, I'm not having this problem right now as I do find someone rather suspicious.
Russia: A joke is one thing, but any assumption that taking away town's ability to lynch helps anyone other than the scum is frutiloops. I'd love to see the logic behind how a percentage chance to hit scum is less helpful than the certainty of not. Personally, I'd rather try to take them out than give them a day free. My vote stays where it is. I can't see any reason that not lynching would help us and with you advocating that, I think if you're not scum, you're doing a fine job of impersonating one.
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I am not sure why "oh look these guys are DOING STUFF!" is somehow bad, at all? That makes no sense.
You are rehashing events in the game without attributing any real significance to them, ergo you are reporting, which is scummy as it is generally an effective means of looking like you're saying something important without actually doing so. Specifically, this is the 'reporting' part-
Contributions from Milhouse! Good ones! Contributions from Aperture Science Labs! Ones for which I must question what our fellow malevolent, misanthropic AI means by cake crumbs for posting something useful.
And of course, there are the lurkers, who all need to post, and the sooner the better.
Right. On the other hand, I agree with you on 9000 now. "There is never anything wrong with voting for someone who is not posting" is a goddamn lie out of him. On day one it's a stupid cheap trick that allows you to assume a default position on the grounds of some myth that everyone who doesn't post is scum. LaL is not effective on day one on it's lonesome. It can be effective if one observes that what someone has posted is suboptimal, but alone? Too many potential mitigating factors. Never mind that the scenario for these kind of votes generally goes like that
-Player A: "Player B isn't posting! VOTE"
-Player B: "posts anything"
-Player A: "Right, Player B has posted, so I can drop this now."
The reason it can be dropped so easily is because there was no basis in the first place.
So no, you aren't allowed to escape on that. Assume lurkers do not exist at the moment, and talk/vote for other people who are doing things. LaL can be instituted later. ##Unvote, ##Vote: 9000
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(http://imgur.com/3IRK3.jpg) (http://imgur.com/3IRK3.jpg) "Christ, still hungover. Hazel woke me up and then went to get some food, so I'm catching up... and... uh, wow. W-o-w.
"First, to cover basics; I think the response to Rick's post justifies it, yes, though Hazel left a note next to it saying 'WORK ON SYNTAX ROLLRICKER, LOL' and a frowny face. Irregardless."
##UNVOTE: Rick Astley. "Thank you for your prompt response. If ever you're looking for a good dom, I'd not mind being the first to rock your rolls.
"To the bookworm... ah. 'WTF R LAGOMORF, STOOPID BOOKWORM' and another frowny face. Irrelevant, I'm afraid. However, there are more pressing matters, and I've gotten into my getup to address them... Properly."
(http://imgur.com/ouQxJ.jpg) (http://imgur.com/ouQxJ.jpg) "That's better. Anyways! SLAVE X>9000. You beg and whimper at town's feet! Crying and cawing, suggesting vague fantasies while hesitating to commit - and when you do, it is on a silent scoundrel too afraid to even crawl forth! Such behavior is below even a slave, below even furniture! And yet you fail to be the worst of the lot! Fear not, worm, for we shall deal with you soon!
"Because...
"Oh, geez, I can't keep this up while looking at this. Russia? Seriously? You're going to advocate nolynch? As much as this is easy prey for scum to jump on, and that's possibly what's happening... no lynch? We have multiple lurkers, a few different suspicious individuals to deal with, and you're sitting here piping no lynch?
##VOTE: In Soviet Russia
"I confess that trying to pick through these posts is hurting my head - well, that and the hangover - but I just can't read half of this. Hazel left a bunch of sticky notes complaining about it, too. If 9000 seems to be the lynch target, it has my support and I'll leave my own note to make sure Hazel switches to them if In Soviet Russia bombs out. Concerns about a Jester may be applicable here, sadly.
"Ninja'd by lolcats. No real objection to the post there. Will respond more to more posts when I can, uh, coherently think through them, but Russia is blazing red sirens at this point. Also want to hear the lurkers pipe up. 24 hours is understandable - beyond that? Querulous. I do not quite agree that time alone is no signal - if someone is attempting to spend as little time posting as possible, or seems to be doing so, their content would need to be heavenly manna to be passable."
"Double ninja'd, Shiki, vote for 9000, can't blame her. Him? Whichever. Regardless, mainly on Russia because, uh, no lynch as elaborated by others is stupid and I'm not having that and oh god my stomach hate hangovers"
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Now, this is a story all about how
My life got flipped-turned upside down
And I'd like to take a minute
Just sit right there
I'll tell you how I turned out this way.
Anyways, this is mod approved I was just posing as boxxy initially because I thought it would be more fun to surprise people with the initial bel air, avatar is now changed to reflect this.
There seems to be a couple of guys, who are up to no good, starting to make trouble in our neighborhood. I don't like the soviets post at all. It's been said, but I feel the need to reiterate it, not lynching deprives us of information. Also has been said, the mod told us not to assume anything about the roles, and when we signed up even though this is a role madness game, we were told that not all roles would be inherently useful. Refusing to lynch deprives the people who may potentially have no real use to their role of their only power. Sure it may give individuals information, but what of the next day, how do the individuals distribute this to the collective without giving away their powers and making themselves vulnerable, whilst meanwhile scum would be able to share any info they receive AND kill on of us. I can in no way see how this stance would be beneficial to town, and am very curious as to whether still stick by that stance.
I find Yo Dawgs copy pasta off of himself strange, and generally want to here more from him as that stunt is not sitting well with me at the moment.
Over 9000 strikes me as trying really hard to make himself look decent without actually attempting to make a legitimate case, I would like to see him do more then just defend himself and attack lurkers. Though right now the Soviets just do not sit well with me at all, and I'm not so willing to go "it's so bad him can't be scum," since that is a rather lackluster thing to assume.
##Unvote: Over 9000
##Vote: In Soviet Russia
Ninjad by 2g1c, not much new to say
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(http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/9733/th075yukari01small.png)
Ara ara, the prince of freshness has pulled a trolling switch even worthy of someone like myself! Well done, little one. Ah, to be young and human~~
Previous opinions from my fair land may have put Soviet Russia at higher priority than Over 9000, but I must disagree, given recent developments. Sakuya's a nice girl, but there's only so much in the way of thinking that you can expect from one that opens windows in outer space. I hold that both are bad but Over 9000 is worse. Soviet Russia is pushing an unpopular, anti-town opinion, yes. How scummy is this particular opinion, however? Of that I am not as sure. In particular, I am not sure what scum would hope to gain from pushing such a stance as much as he has. Over 9000, on the other hand, holds that applying pressure during the joke vote phase is bad (and he holds this as if most of the pressure on Zerg Rush came from joke votes, which it very notably did not) and, as The Cake Is A Lie also seems to believe, that people should not be pushed path a certain threshold for...reasons I cannot easily discern. I also question the pursuit of lurkers at this point, as have most other people. Over 9000, you claim that lurker prodding is "the best best" - are you seriously saying that you have seen absolutely nothing else voteworthy today? Your stances throughout the day seem to indicate two things; unwillingness/inability to form a decent case (as demonstrated by the lurker vote), and desire for madcappery at the end of the day when there is a sudden rush of vote changing to make sure an individual is lynched (as demonstrated by resisting the idea of pushing any player "too high too soon").
Declaring desire and intent to vote Over 9000 over Soviet Russia should time become scarce, but I am still satisfied with Gensokyo's vote laying on The Cake Is A Lie for the time being.
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##отменять повторным голосованием: No Lynch
##голосование: Over 9000
(##Unvote: No Lynch
##Vote: Over 9000)
In Soviet Russia, no lynch lynches you!
Young woman in Moscow gets job, babysitting beautiful baby comrades while parents go out for vodka. She arrives for job, house looks normal, except that statue of Lenin in corner looks very lifelike. Parents call halfway through evening, after children in bed, and babysitter answers phone.
"Да," she says, "everything is fine, children very happy, except that statue of Lenin looks very lifelike. Is very reassuring for father of Party to be watching house, always grinning!"
"What!" parents cry. "We have no statue of Lenin!"
Babysitter gasps, and dials police!
KGB arrive and congratulate Lenin impersonator for job well done, setting good example for children, then arrest parents when they return for not having statue of glorious father in house.
Such is life in Moscow.
Glorious comrades, learn lesson! In this analogy, I am Lenin impersonator in corner, you are babysitter. Over 9000 is deadbeat parents with no respect for Marxist values. No Lynch not best strategy, but provides good conversation fodder, gets people out of jokevotes and lurker prods. Is good for attention to be devoted towards true anti-state ideals!
Over 9000 on other hand, pays lip service to communism but suggests capitalist value system, day 1 lurker prods, no pressure during joke vote phase, no lynch trains. Over 9000 is TRUE supporter of no lynch here. Yukari speak truth like Japanese ninja, eliminating border between rich and poor.
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(http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/8898/milhouseccccombobreaker.jpg)
Hoo boy (I solely picked that image because of the horrible Milhouseface on it).
This is so gonna be an ugly day 2 to look forward to. Right now, as far as I see, we've got two plausible lynch cases: Over 9 inches and Soviet Communism. But, in fact, looking at the straight stuff we have right now, loltouhou has a point: advocating a non-lynch in a serious manner is so mindblowingly retarded in a Mafia environment that I'd have to wonder if scum would -ever- resort to that outside of generating hilarious WIFOM, and that's not a line of thought I want to entertain, let alone in day 1. 9.1 Inches, on the other hand, managed to earn negative brownie points in the wilderness for the generally unhelpful and just a bit too non-committal approach he's taken so far - particularly on his last post - just pushing for the safest link around and trying to just stay entirely away. Not using your vote is one thing, but the way he managed to dance around with the votelessness -and- then prodded into a safeguard stance by making a meaningless lurker call sorta raise heckles. Which one of these approaches would I find actually scummy? 9.1, for sure. So, I think this is enough for me to switch:
##UNVOTE: Soviet Russia
##VOTE: Over 9000
-This said-, I'm not particularly happy with Boxxy Air either, who just seemed to jump happily into an easy lynch case. Soviet Russia is obviously looking to save his own bacon here, which also doesn't earn him any favors in a vacuum, but that this attitude alone, in the heat of a lynch rush, isn't a tell one way or another. So, the one that I feel to be scummier it is.
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OH GOD VOTECOUNT IS HOT!
VOTECOUNT
Zerg Rush: (1) - Over 9000, Advice Dog, Touhou Hijacker, Demotivator, O R'LYEH!?
OVER 9000: (9008) - Touhou Hijacker, Boxxy/Bel Air, Hueg Like XBOX, Advice Dog, The Cake is a Lie, Zerg Rush, All Your Base, Shana, Soviet Russia, Milhouse
OH GOD SHANA IS HOT (0) - Zerg Rush
Touhou Hijack LOL (0) - The Cake is a Lie, 2girls1cup, Shana
Advice Dog: (0) - Advice Dog, lolcat, Zerg Rush
lolcat: (0)- Demotivator
Hueg Like XBOX: (0) - Rick Astley
All Your Base: (0) - C-C-Combo Breaker, Shana,
COMBO BREAKER: (0) - All Your Base
Soviet Russia: (5) - Milhouse, Yo Dawg, Rick Astley, lolcat, 2girls1cup, Bel Air
Rick Astley: (0) - 2girls1cup
The Cake is a Lie: (1) - Shana, Touhou Hijacker
Yo Dawg: (2) - All Your Base, Demotivator, COMBO BREAKER
Boxxy/Bel Air: (1) - Over 9000
No lynch: (0) - Soviet Russia
Some whole bunch of hours remain in day 1. With 17 active memes, it takes 9 votes to axe someone in the face.
Over 9000 is at A-1!
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So O9K is at L-1? Well, that'll teach me to go grab dinner and then tuck all the various kittens to bed when there is Serius Bsns Mafia going on.
Russia makes a good point, his advocation for No Lynch is definately generating talk. But herein I disagree with Milhouse. If YOU know that saying No Lynch is bad play that scum wouldn't do cause it was obvious, I know it and most likely everyone else here playing it knows it, why wouldn't scum say it? Much like lurking is not inherantly scummy, saying No Lynch is Good can be misguided townie (or townie trying to start a convo as Russia suggests he's doing), or scum trying to get a convo going while knowing that 'scum wouldn't be this stupid' should pull his tail out of the fire before the scorch marks get too bad. No Lynch is actively unhelpful to town and thus helps scum. My vote stays.
Now, in regards to the train on O9K there, I can definately see the point being made. Even if the stand you take turns out to be wrong, at least be a Tomkat and take a stand. Being indecisive does not help town. If we need to make a lynch, I would feel comfortable moving my vote, but for now I think Russia to be a less helpful player and thus more likely to be scum so no vote move right now. We still have some time in Day 1 if anyone wants to say something else, so I'm not really seeing any reason to jump into day end here with a few players having less than ideal postings so far. I know D1 is something of a dice roll for info, but if anyone thinks we can wring some more out of it, I'm all fuzzy ears.
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Yo dawg, I heard you like posting outside of my timezone, so I made a macro-image post when I didn't have time for content, so I wouldn't be modkilled while I was away.
(http://www.poptower.com/images/db/958/420/300/xzibit.jpg)
I am now pondering this thread.
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(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/3875/swrkomachi.jpg)
Whoa, you lot fixing to ship me a new soul already? There's still some time to talk things through, you know. Guy's scummy, yes, but there's no need to rush THIS much. Besides, I have a very busy schedule full of breaks, naps and meals for the forseeable future, so the earliest I'd be able to ferry him across the Sanzu would be...what's today, Wednesday? Umm...I have an opening in 2035. I could pencil him in for then if you like.
The Ruskie looks like he's trying to claim credit for prompting discussion and ferrying folks along through the joke vote phase. The sea is a harsh and fickle mistress, Comrade, and storms don't need help from individual sailors to pass! You trying to claim credit for that sort of thing doesn't help you at all. "I did it to start discussion" is not a valid excuse for anti-town behavior.
Milhouse, you sure you're not blinded by a saltwater spray or something? You didn't even appear to notice you were putting the guy so close to lynch! Normally I wouldn't be too concerned with dragging someone so close to being pushed overboard, but this crew has a recent history of ninja hammers, so I'm a little wary of L-1 all the same.
That's enough words for now, I gotta go back to my nap. Please don't tell Eiki-sama what I'm doing! <3
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Milhouse, you sure you're not blinded by a saltwater spray or something? You didn't even appear to notice you were putting the guy so close to lynch! Normally I wouldn't be too concerned with dragging someone so close to being pushed overboard, but this crew has a recent history of ninja hammers, so I'm a little wary of L-1 all the same.
I... actually didn't notice, no (I've been sleepy for the last three hours). It only hit me -after- the more recent posts came up. I don't mind the idea of unvoting him just to keep the lynch a bit away for a bit longer in a vacuum, but I still feel perfectly content with the idea of him going down today. I suspect that, at this point, whoever wants to ninjahammer him will do so (we have two lurkers, after all, and we have no idea what will Yo Dawg do), but given how a bit of breathing room doesn't hurt either, I'll do a switch - at least for the moment:
##UNVOTE: Over 9000
##VOTE: Soviet Russia
The vote switch is mostly to note I'm perfectly content with lynching Soviet Russia today as well, given the increasingly sketchy history going on here. But yeah, -2 to hammer now, hopefully this helps in not ending the day too abruptly.
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(http://memegenerator.net/File/ImageMacro/562177.jpg)
Sorry about earlier, didn't have time to post properly this morning, but didn't want to be AWOL for almost 24 hours either. Anyway, dropping flavor to post opinions on a couple of the people that jumped out at me after catching up:
The only person looking good right now is Advice Dog. Yo dawg.
Soviet Russia hasn't done itself any favors. I don't buy into the "generating discussion" thing that late into day 1. Could be a jester though ~_~
I also don't like lolcat's WIFOM support of Russia, but aside from that lolcat hasn't been terrible.
Boxy Air looks to be trying to get by on minimal content. Unhappy about this.
2girls achieves the same thing whilst looking like they post a lot. Which is more dangerous. It's hard to pick out the points in the conversations.
Zerg is weird, not sure if the vote on Dawg is as bad as others make it though.
As for Over 9000... the early no vote looked suspicious and all, but the descent into LAL looked worse to me.
Uh, Millhouse, you're afraid of a ninja hammer? On this guy?
Y'know, if scum ninja-hammered the guy we suspect to be scum, then that would be pretty awesome. Why are you afraid of this :\
Going to take a closer look at Millhouse.
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I also don't like lolcat's WIFOM support of Russia, but aside from that lolcat hasn't been terrible.
I think you confused me on this one, Dawg. I said that Russia advocating No Lynch was WIFOM as to whether he was a scum or a townie as either could advocate such a thing for the reasons I stated above. But Regardless of REASONING, the very act of a no lynch is actively anti-town and thus I kept my vote on him. I mean, whether he's scum trying a gambit of 'I can talk my way out of this and its a good smokecreen' or a townie who genuinely believes that No Lynch is somehow not inherantly scum-helpful, either way the end result of a No Lynch would hurt us so he's damaging to town and thus worth a vote. How is that support of Russia?
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Russia makes a good point, his advocation for No Lynch is definately generating talk. But herein I disagree with Milhouse.
Ah I see, you were only agreeing with the discussion bit. I thought you meant you were supporting it, since you said it was a good point. Ignore my comment about you. You're cool dawg...cat...whatever.
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Ah, I see. Yep, rather confusing way to start my thoughts there, but yes I was just agreeing that he was starting some convos with his idea. Not that they were good ideas.
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In Soviet Russia, jokevote phase start discussion!
Да, I had kind of hoped for discussion to start immediately after I posted with a No Lynch vote, when all comrades were still jokevoting with nothing to go on, but it was ignored like capitalist lies and I had to explain the position with bright yellow box, like capitalist pigmanchild Tim Buckley. I still think it produced some useful reactions though.
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At this point it seems to me more like O9K is a just a townie who can't argue his way out of a cardboard box. He keeps bringing up points on people and voting in an entirely different direction. I can't tell at this point whether or not this is cunning scum play or just what I stated before... confused town play. Leaning the latter.
Dawg... usually speculating on roles, especially in rolemadness, on Day 1 is bad juju. You're skating by on reporter style at the moment, but there's something more important to press on at the moment. Keeping my eye on you.
##Unvote: Yo Dawg
On the other hand, In Soviet Russia has just jumped further and further up the list. Yes, yes. It started discussion... long, long after the point it had intended to. It was initially overshadowed by your use of the Russian language, and no one even really brought it up until 12 hours and an entire page has gone by in lolcat's post (or if you want a more concrete one, Milhouse's vote on Soviet). But you admit that... What then, are the useful reactions did it really produce? Advice Dog's understandable admonishment of you when you claimed it was serious? All Your Base's explanation on why it's a terrible strategy? There was literally nothing said that hasn't been said before, or even in a way that hasn't been said before, when what you suggested has come up in the past. What then are your brilliant observations you've taken out of this, because that whole scumhunting thing? Thats what we're supposed to be doing. Sharing is caring.
##Vote: Soviet Russia
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Dawg... usually speculating on roles, especially in rolemadness, on Day 1 is bad juju.
That rule doesn't apply to jesters. What an incredibly suspicious thing to say.
Does this look bad to anyone else or just me?
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Well, things are getting very, very complicated now. I will remove my morality core so that I do not come across as overly verbose.
...There. That's better.
Besides, people can still strongly express opinions without actually having a vote down. They can also make alternate cases and put the votes to use there!
And if all the votes are already on one target people are more likely to tunnel and less likely to turn away. Last game was a huge fluke in that the Prinny wagon gained enough speed to stop Middleman.
It also occurs to me that, looking back, you don't... actually... have anything to say about me/the people on me/my stance. You just mention the voting thing and leave it at that.
I'm sorry, what were you looking for? A thorough analysis? Fully-grown opinions of every character in the game? Because it's rather hard to do that on Day 1.
You were Attacking the Player by being a jerk in your first two posts. That's about all I could get from you given your content.
With regards to me not voting Zerg - I didn't like the idea of one case getting big too fast, because then the lynch of the day would simply be between Zerg and Whoever Everyone Thinks Is Pressing Zerg Too Hard. The other cases are likely to fall to the sidelines simply because all the votes are focused elsewhere. Either stance is easy for scum to take.
9000.1 is getting continually worse. 'Hey, let's STILL give no opinions and jump on a lurker! No wonder I'm almost as strong as Kakarot!' It gets to the point where you have to wonder if he really IS a jester...which concerns me slightly, but it's a WIFOM at best.
Soviet ACTUALLY TRYING TO PRESS A NO LYNCH THEN TURNING AROUND AND SAYING IT WAS TO BUILD DISCUSSION makes me want to flood his head with a neurotoxin. Doing so would put him at L-1, though, and it's not impossible for Vegeta!Scum to fake jester if they've been told that the setup has third-party and bastard mod in it. Holding for now.
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Jesters? We're talking about jesters?
You mean, that mythical role that is merely another excuse for town to not lynch scummy people? Come on, guys. We can do better than this. Can't we? Pretty much everyone buying into this discussion at all seems horribly scummy for it. 2girls1cup brought it up as a novel point and I confess I haven't paid her much attention until now owing to her post format... yo dawg was sort of offhand about it, I'd let him slide there... and cake. Cake. Wow.
Soviet ACTUALLY TRYING TO PRESS A NO LYNCH THEN TURNING AROUND AND SAYING IT WAS TO BUILD DISCUSSION makes me want to flood his head with a neurotoxin. Doing so would put him at L-1, though, and it's not impossible for Vegeta!Scum to fake jester if they've been told that the setup has third-party and bastard mod in it. Holding for now.
Can you explain this for me? Here, incentive, because actually using 'but maybe jester!' as any kind of excuse to do something... wow. This is significant enough that simply by Cake being on 9000, I don't want to be anymore today. ##UNVOTE OF DISCORDANT RHYMES, ##FEVERISH HOMEBOUND HATCHET: Cake
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And yes, I am aware that this is a 'he might be faking jester' thing, to clarify. It is a terrible place to come from and I cannot take it seriously. Using jester or jester-related shenanigans as a reason to vote remains dodgy.
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(http://imgur.com/scYEq.jpg) (http://imgur.com/scYEq.jpg) "Yeah. I'm sorry I even stated it explicitly, at this point. Brought it up out of the combination of bastard modding, and Hazel and I knowing our fair mod well. I would not consider jester out of the question - but I'm not sure I'd consider it likely, either. Russia is playing much like some actual Jesters I've seen, to excaberate the issue."
(http://imgur.com/mT1eA.jpg) (http://imgur.com/mT1eA.jpg) "But I think you can tell how serious we take it right now by where our vote is."
(http://imgur.com/scYEq.jpg) (http://imgur.com/scYEq.jpg) "A few notes, before we go out carousing again:
Uh, Millhouse, you're afraid of a ninja hammer? On this guy?
Y'know, if scum ninja-hammered the guy we suspect to be scum, then that would be pretty awesome. Why are you afraid of this :\
Going to take a closer look at Millhouse.
"This fails to inspire. Discussion is a Town tool. Supression - overt or covert - is a Scum aim. Milhouse, whatever his allegiances, seems to be acting wisely there. You, however? Not quite. Outside of this section, however, I do not terribly disagree with your reports - even on myself. Content is somewhat scarce when everyone else gets to it first."
(http://imgur.com/mT1eA.jpg) (http://imgur.com/mT1eA.jpg) "About Cake, idly - though of course it's a lie, I already ate it - I don't buy the case so much, but I think I see where you're coming from. Hell. I'll get Jamie to keep an eye on that meme while we're out partying. And one final note - actually, Advice Dog brought up Jesters before Clarice, but he, like us, doesn't take that as seriously as some others seem to. Cake seeming to use that as a plank... well, let me put it this way. I can't see what the hell Shana's noted sentence:
Soviet ACTUALLY TRYING TO PRESS A NO LYNCH THEN TURNING AROUND AND SAYING IT WAS TO BUILD DISCUSSION makes me want to flood his head with a neurotoxin. Doing so would put him at L-1, though, and it's not impossible for Vegeta!Scum to fake jester if they've been told that the setup has third-party and bastard mod in it. Holding for now.
I'm not seeing what the implication of "fake jester" is supposed to mean here - pardon my denseness - and as such this actually seems kinda like scaremongering, though if someone can explain what's being said here better than I I'm all drunk. If momentum switches in this direction I'll definitely reread Cake's posts once more, this seems pretty weird."
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(http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/3866/572419.jpg)
The above sentiment rankles me considerably, though conversation has mostly passed on since.
Shiki, you can say what you like, but we've had jesters in the past, this game is more ripe for one than a more 'standard' game, and we have two people acting absolutely batshit crazy here. It's a serious concern (triple jester suggestion aside). I'm honestly more worried that one of them is a jester over the odds of them being town. My bet would be on the Commie over o9k for flailing around like a generally crazy person, but o9k is like a living textbook example of bad early scum play, and if it weren't for Soviet Russia existing I would be incredibly apprehensive about lynching o9k day one, rather than simply worried.
As it stands, I'll still take the odds of it being bad scum failing hard and fast rather than a clever jester ploy, as the Commie is giving a very helpful demonstration of what I'd actually expect from a jester.
And yes, Dawg, very much on your side against C-C-C-C on that matter. That's a horrible painting of what you were doing.
Still haven't really been able to get a focus on a lot of the other players yet.
Happiest with the Hijack so far. Felt comfortable with the cats but dislike the growing balls of gas, like the lurking thing here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99791.html#msg99791). Clearly not going to get on well with Zerg Rush, but that's no sign of guilt and personality aside I have no issue. In terms of other people I'd consider lynching... nothing is as immediately in my nose as the two at L-2. I'll take a closer look for other more subtle day one tells like anyone cruising along, but not right now.
Ninja: the triple jester idea was obviously a joke, but that was the point at which I started thinking that we might have a jester in our midst, and that was before Soviet Russia got even worse.
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(http://macrochan.org/thumbs/3/R/3RSXO6BWQ5T5V4VY32AUWLDYJIQE4QWF.jpeg)
Right, in agreement. ##Unvote Russia
##Vote Combo Breaker
Yo dawg, I heard u like trying to make me look bad so I put a vote on your record so you can hang while you lie.
Scumtell 'cos there's no need for town to do this.
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Just waking up and wanting to get one thing out before I take the kittens out for their hunting lessons: jesters? I'm not going there.
Speculating on what roles might be in the game when the mod specifically states that roles will be wacky is just WIFOMy. Is it possible? Sure. It might also be possible that one of them has a power role when targeted by a NK and trying to get us to back off to lynching out of fear of a jester and letting scum hit them. It's also possible it's just bad play. It's also possible that they really do believe what they're saying though it goes against how most of us seem to think the game should be played. Maybe one of them has a special ghost power that only kicks in after they're dead. Maybe they don't really want to play and this is their subtle way of getting out of the game without making the mod find a replacement. I could go on and on here for hours. That's why it's WIFOMy on freaking Day 1 ppl. You vote on the play because that's ALL YOU KNOW. If it seems scummy to you, vote. If it just seems like bad townie play, vote somewhere else. But vote because you're trying to FIND SCUM, not because you're trying to second guess the mod's setup in a bastard-mod role madness game.
Just saying. Now, hunting lessons call. I'll post on the other things in the thread when I get back.
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And yes, Dawg, very much on your side against C-C-C-C on that matter. That's a horrible painting of what you were doing.
Yo dawg, I heard u like trying to make me look bad so I put a vote on your record so you can hang while you lie.
Scumtell 'cos there's no need for town to do this.
I would say it's an overreaction to what I said and you're actually trying to paint me in a bad light now, since my main point was actually that Dawg was pretty much being a reporter at that point, but fine. You've got to do what you've got to do, especially since I guess it does look bad since I called Dawg on it and not some of the other people who've mentioned it.
Cake's reasoning is pretty terrible and almost shoots them up to the level of O9K, Dawg and Soviet. There's no reason to be afraid of voting and/or putting someone at -1 if you're town. It's how we lynch scum. It's how we win.
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(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7348/rinsubanismall.png)
じゃじゃーん～
I'm here, I'm here~ I'm here to haul off some...wait, no corpses yet? Guess I'll just have some fun with the surface-dwellers instead! I don't think Satori-sama will mind too much!
Jester discussion? Why is that useful, besides talking about how to be of good cheer? I don't know a whole lot, but I think the possibility of Jesters should just be ignored. Considering them seriously just gives people reasons to excuse scummy behavior, and that won't help us catch scum at all! Other people have said this, but it's worth repeating! Stop trying to rile up paranoia!
Uh, Millhouse, you're afraid of a ninja hammer? On this guy?
Y'know, if scum ninja-hammered the guy we suspect to be scum, then that would be pretty awesome. Why are you afraid of this :\
Besides the reasons that those two other girls have given, we're not even guaranteed our ninja hammerer will be scum! I've been hauling corpses off for you lot for quite some time now, and there are two in particular that stuck out: Gendo Ikari and Captain Kirk. Both were ninja hammered by townies, right? And it's possible it could have happened again right here, too! With so much time left in the day and both town AND scum possibly having ninja hammers waiting in the weeds, a careful approach is the best one to take. There's no advantage to ninja hammering a scum over letting the day play out for more discussion and then hammering them shortly before deadline.
But never fear, Mr. Rapper Guy, I'm not mad at you! In fact, I agree with you and...a DOG? AAH! HELP! HELP ME, SATORI-SAMA! HELP...oh, he...seems to be okay, I guess...a-anyway, I agree with you and the...d-dog about Combo Breaker. Mr. Breaker, I don't see a lot of role speculation in Mr. Rapper Guy's post either! Just the mention of the jester possibility! You don't make a lot of sense there! What's up with that?
Cake Man, I don't think I agree with your assessment of how a day would play out if one person got pushed really quickly. People are going to form the opinions they form regardless of train status, and it's very possible someone else will get lynched for scummy behavior if they behave like scum enough. Just look at this game! Even with the focus on the Red dude and 9999 Ni Hao 9~, the last couple of votes have been for different people entirely!
Oh, hello, Mr. Breaker! I see that you were pushing Mr. Rapper Guy as a reporter, but I still don't get why you would throw something like that role speculation line in when it didn't look like Mr. Rapper Guy was doing anything like that. And even the reporter thing...I dunno about that, Mr. Rapper Guy put some opinions into his post too, even though he didn't cast a vote until later.
Uh oh, I've spent too much time up here! I need to get back home! Satori-sama must be worried SICK about me! Bye-bye everyone, I had a lot of fun~!
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(http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/5552/orinisnotamused.jpg)
Whoa, almost forgot something! Speaking of corpses, am I going to have to haul off the Big Box sometime soon? It's posted once in the joke vote phase, almost 48 hours ago! I really don't like having to clean up that sort of mess. It should be of good cheer and get into gear!
Maybe a soul transfusion is in order?
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Yo däwg, joten venäläiset haluavat päästä Google Translate sotaa, vai mitä? Älä tee minun muistuttaa teitä siitä Simo Häyhä (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_H%C3%A4yh%C3%A4) olemassaolosta!
Ääntenlaskennasta
Zerg Rush: (1) - Over 9000, Advice Dog, Touhou Hijacker, Demotivator, O R'LYEH!?
OVER 9000: (9007) - Touhou Hijacker, Boxxy/Bel Air, Milhouse, Hueg Like XBOX, Advice Dog, The Cake is a Lie, Zerg Rush, All Your Base, Shana, Soviet Russia
OH GOD SHANA IS HOT (0) - Zerg Rush
Touhou Hijack LOL (0) - The Cake is a Lie, 2girls1cup, Shana
Advice Dog: (0) - Advice Dog, lolcat, Zerg Rush
lolcat: (0)- Demotivator
Hueg Like XBOX: (0) - Rick Astley
All Your Base: (0) - C-C-Combo Breaker, Shana
COMBO BREAKER: (1) - All Your Base, Yo Dawg
Soviet Russia: (6) - Milhouse, Yo Dawg, Rick Astley, lolcat, 2girls1cup, Bel Air, Milhouse, COMBO BREAKER
Rick Astley: (0) - 2girls1cup
The Cake is a Lie: (1) - Shana, Touhou Hijacker
Yo Dawg: (1) - All Your Base, COMBO BREAKER, Demotivator
Boxxy/Bel Air: (1) - Over 9000
No lynch: (0) - Soviet Russia
On 24 tuntia jäljellä päivää. On 17 memes, joten se kestää 9 ääntä tappaa. (aka 24 hours left, folks, 9 to lynch)
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Just as a friendly tangent note: while Crappy Fighting Game Mechanic did paint Yo Dawg in a more unflattering light than it was needed (the emphasis on the rolemadness and reportering style feel a bit forced, and I think Combo Breaker even noted that ragging on Yo Dawg for reportering while not ragging on others who may have done the same looks not great. For all that Yo Dawg did skate on reportery at a glance, he honestly has some actual opinions to back blank statements up for now), but I'm not sure that's worth painting him in an even more unflattering light with a vote to bonuspoint. It feels almost OMGUSy, but I'm all ears to elaboration. I'm just not sure there's much of a point on overreacting there - and if trying to make people look bad is a scumtell, then why engage in it concurrently? That doesn't look amazing.
That said, I'm not sure why we're even giving serious thought to the idea of a jester right now, inane role madness game/bastard moddery or not. Cakeless' justification there was amazingly awful and prodded up a lot of discussion that borders on pure WIFOM licking here - which I honestly don't think will bring much to the table at the point we're in, with essentially zero role info. Just not worth getting into right now, although Cakeless looks worse and worse due to it.
Boxxy Air still looks fucking bad for the reasons I stated before - I mean, he hasn't done -anything else-.
Blargh, there's just not much to say as I see here that wasn't said before. 9.1 inches and Soviet Pikachu still stand at the top right now, but arguments for Cakeless/Boxxy Air can be made. XBOX, I'd honestly just let the mod handle at this point. 48 hours? Seriously?
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Official Modkill Warning
If XBOX doesn't post again, it will be traded in for store credit whenever the day ends. I'd rather not modkill before then, as that will end the day, and I don't think anyone wants that.
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I will post in a bit, I've just been overwhelmed by the HUEG LIEK XBOX trainwreck in this topic!
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Dawg... usually speculating on roles, especially in rolemadness, on Day 1 is bad juju.
That rule doesn't apply to jesters. What an incredibly suspicious thing to say.
Does this look bad to anyone else or just me?
What an incredibly suspicious thing to say? The problem is with this argument is that no matter the alignment of the person, jesters are pretty useless things that both sides want dead. I think this is the biggest case of fear-mongering that I've seen in the topic with a lot of charges of this floating around.
I think that, while the idea of faking jester is hilarious, I think it is more likely that someone just sucks at playing scum. Faking jester is a really bad idea because there is a thin line between being lynched and being labelled a jester.
I overall think that Over 9000 has been stupidly unhelpful and outright scummy, but I think Yo Dawg's charge is pretty illogical. I'm not sure what to think of either, but overall I think Over 9000 is worse so I shall actually keep my original vote on him.
Soviet Russia... maybe a jester, maybe just a new player who doesn't really understand all the playstyle nuances, or maybe scum. I'll take a pass on speculating which for now, since I see two other better candidates right now.
Most of the points I would make have already been made unfortunately. The cases at the forefront seem like the most reasonable ones.
Sorry for disappearing! Just got really busy the last couple days.
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(http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/3135/th075remilia01small.png)
OVER 9000: (9007) - Touhou Hijacker, Boxxy/Bel Air, Milhouse, Hueg Like XBOX, Advice Dog, The Cake is a Lie, Zerg Rush, All Your Base, Shana, Soviet Russia
The Cake is a Lie: (1) - Shana, Touhou Hijacker
No! This cannot be! (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99849.html#msg99849) AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!
Crossbox, it does not seem you understand the nature of the man-dog's accusation of the fighter. It also does not seem you understand the nature of jesters in general, as scum definitely want them alive in order to distract town, but that is beside the point. The fighter suggested the man-dog was speculating on roles, where the man-dog's only role speculation appeared to be that of Comrade Red being a jester (while I am thinking about, Russian, please kindly eject yourself from my dear color), which, while pointless speculation at best, is not as bad in the grand scheme of things as, say, speculation about who the cop and doc are. The man-dog accused the fighter of trying to paint him in a bad way as a result, which is a perfectly understandable accusation.
I hope to hear more from you than what you have produced there, as it is a misunderstanding on the fighter/man-dog spat and an acknowledgement that the currently suspicious people are rightfully suspicious. This does not help the rest of us learn about you, and we would so love to hear more from you given your prolonged absence. Do you have opinions on other players?
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VOTECOUNT HIJACK LOL!
Votecount
Zerg Rush: (1) - Over 9000, Advice Dog, Touhou Hijacker, Demotivator, O R'LYEH!?
OVER 9000: (9006) - Touhou Hijacker, Boxxy/Bel Air, Milhouse, Shana, Hueg Like XBOX, Advice Dog, The Cake is a Lie, Zerg Rush, All Your Base, Soviet Russia
OH GOD SHANA IS HOT (0) - Zerg Rush
Touhou Hijack LOL (0) - The Cake is a Lie, 2girls1cup, Shana
Advice Dog: (0) - Advice Dog, lolcat, Zerg Rush
lolcat: (0)- Demotivator
Hueg Like XBOX: (0) - Rick Astley
All Your Base: (0) - C-C-Combo Breaker, Shana
COMBO BREAKER: (1) - All Your Base, Yo Dawg
Soviet Russia: (6) - Milhouse, Yo Dawg, Rick Astley, lolcat, 2girls1cup, Bel Air, Milhouse, COMBO BREAKER
Rick Astley: (0) - 2girls1cup
The Cake is a Lie: (2) - Shana, Touhou Hijacker, Shana
Yo Dawg: (1) - All Your Base, COMBO BREAKER, Demotivator
Boxxy/Bel Air: (1) - Over 9000
No lynch: (0) - Soviet Russia
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(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/6506/575916.jpg)
Okay, so it's only been 12 hours since the Commie was around and not yet 24 hours for o9k, so not disastrous in its own right, but the fact that neither of the vote leaders have actually really interacted with the game for some time has brought my position (and others' as well, I'd bet) to stagnation. I'm looking at the more recent cases on other people and they're just not on the same scale of wrongness that o9k in particular is emitting.
For instance, I don't like C-C-C-C for his misrep of the Dawg and then complaining that this in turn was misrep (sorry, doesn't matter what the bulk of your case is, a lie is still a lie), but it's not even in the same league.
Apparently jester concerns are going down like a lead balloon. Not much I can do about that sentiment, but I will be barking loudly for an o9k lynch over a Commie lynch should that be where we end up. Machinations over madness. Probably over any other lynch for that matter, but I still haven't had the full look over yet. That should be in the next few hours.
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Just got hit with something. Reading and trying to make a post without promptly putting it in my mouth again.
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(http://i49.tinypic.com/23i80hv.jpg)
This post. (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99863.html#msg99863) No more on the jester matters, lynching solely for scum myself.
Got to run off for a bit now, mostly a Still Alive post here, but want to draw (more) attention to Russians. They've posted nothing outside of the No Lynch stuff and then some explanations about starting conversation. Will take a look over in an hour or two, expect more here. (As much as I hate promising content later, kinda have to now)
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In Soviet Russia, work goes to you!
Is very accurate here. Game start at bad time, many things going on in motherland. Schedule will be more clear after today. That said though, complaining about absence of only 12 hours is capitalist nonsense, how much interaction you expect on day 1 eh? What is to say? After sleep, having doubts about Over 9000 case, but still most prominent in mind - and as alternative is self, is troublesome. Wish to see Over9000 post again.
Jester ideas are manure of glorious father bull. Bastard modding surely does not extend that far, or in Soviet Russia we would lynch mod.
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Can you explain this for me? Here, incentive, because actually using 'but maybe jester!' as any kind of excuse to do something... wow.
This was not an excuse to do something. This was me saying 'no, this jester WIFOM is stupid, we shouldn't let 9000.1 away with scummy play because he MIGHT be fool'. I'm more convinced at this moment that 9000.1 is scum, and given that he's likely going to die anyway, what's likely to happen if we're wrong on Soviet? Vegeta throws a quickhammer and at least manages to waste a day for Town before his inevitable death.
I don't understand how I've been misinterpreted as saying 'Soviet might be jester, better not lynch him!' I was saying '9000.1 probably ISN'T jester, so why the hell aren't we lynching him?'
9000.1 suddenly claiming V/LA does not help.
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Right. On the other hand, I agree with you on 9000 now. "There is never anything wrong with voting for someone who is not posting" is a goddamn lie out of him. On day one it's a stupid cheap trick that allows you to assume a default position on the grounds of some myth that everyone who doesn't post is scum. LaL is not effective on day one on it's lonesome. It can be effective if one observes that what someone has posted is suboptimal, but alone? Too many potential mitigating factors. Never mind that the scenario for these kind of votes generally goes like that
-Player A: "Player B isn't posting! VOTE"
-Player B: "posts anything"
-Player A: "Right, Player B has posted, so I can drop this now."
The reason it can be dropped so easily is because there was no basis in the first place.
No. Someone who hasn't engaged the game isn't doing anything for town. Lurking sometimes happens, but the person I voted for at the time had yet to make a serious post in the game. Sorry, but LaL almost always applies fi someone isn't posting period. It isn't just posting anything, but posting something of content.
and desire for madcappery at the end of the day when there is a sudden rush of vote changing to make sure an individual is lynched (as demonstrated by resisting the idea of pushing any player "too high too soon").
Desire to see votes pile up super early int he jokephase of the date doesn't mean pushing for a late train either. I didn't think it was a great move, changed my vote and explained it as well as I could.
At this point, I don't think defending myself from the same things over and over again is going to do much good, so going to reread the topic and see what impressions I get. Breaking up the post a bit since this is taking a while.
Advice Dog- Solidly town. He's fairly active in the game and is pushing townie things (Was first on Soviet russia for the nolynch, going after me , poking at Combo who gives me a bad vibe).
All Your Base- Voted Yo dawg for his brief post then vanishing routine, built a case against me and let it stand. Smacked Shiki for diagreeing with voting against lurkers on day one. I don't like the second part of his case against me, but he defended the vote against me well.
Boxxy- Null read so far.
COMBO BREAKER- Past the joke phase- Prodded me once, parroted other people and voted dawg. Which is funny, as he's accusing Dawg of being a repeater. He also votes and attacks soviet without doing much else. He's also being rude, which may be coloring my opinion of things. Not getting a positive view from this.
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9000.1 suddenly claiming V/LA does not help.
Don't know what this shorthand means, clarify?
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I find it strange how Milhouse is so persistent in accusing me of hopping on an easy case when he specifically stated in the post where he first raised that suspicion that he himself did not see any other cases besides over 9000 worth pursuing at that time. There isn't much I can say when my ability to post comes at a time when the good cases have already been made, are you seriously going to tunnel on me when others could just as easily be accused of the same thing?
Not happy with the Russians behavior, and will be keeping my vote there for now, even though over 9000 somehow manages to look worse every time I read over them.
I'm not happy with the breakers dismissal of Over 9000's posts as bad play, it kind of strikes me as going into WIFOM on whether or not he's really scum, if he's playing bad and not helping town, there is no reason not to have him as a lynch target unless he is confirmed town, which is pretty much lol on day 1. Everyone else hasn't really struck any nerves with me so far, though I'm rather curious as to what Milhouse will say in regards to the Huge Box's recent post.
Over 9000's recent post doesn't really change anything for me, seems rather overly reporter style and is just eh.
Still entirely content with sitting on the Russian, hasn't really said anything of worth other then "look at me I did that to start discussion!!" and still pretty much looks the worse to me, though over 9000 is not far behind. If anyone needs me I'll be drinking some orange juice out of a champagne glass.
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For the Smashys. Linking due to size. (http://i47.tinypic.com/dyp3yx.jpg)
Russia: (http://i47.tinypic.com/2rgddhv.jpg) Already commented. Missed the vote for 9001, but seems weak when it's based around "I was only doing that to draw out the real culprits!"
9001: Terrible. A re-read does nothing but emphasise this, pointing out the 'active lurker' thing before he disappears. New post is mostly weak, ends with reporter. Ugh. Also seems to encourage his own lynch:
...is pushing townie things (Was first on Soviet russia for the nolynch, going after me...
Yo Dawg, i herd u like BREAKING COMBOS: Ridiculous argument is ridiculous. (http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0907/arguing-on-the-internet-cheese-grater-arguing-demotivational-poster-1248904631.jpg) Both of them are making each other look worse. Agreeing with C-C-C-COMBO more, since the initial argument was that speculating on roles D1 is bad, which I agree with.
Touhou and the dog are looking most Town to me so far, but D1. Could always change, but I'm happy with either a 9001 or Russian lynch today. 9001's latest post is scummy enough to push him ahead, and since things are tied:
##Unvote, ##Vote: Over 9000
And that pushes it to L-2, going by the last votecount.
Fresh Ninja of Bel Air - Mostly saying what I'm saying. Only comment is that Milhouse's reasoning was pretty obvious to me, and the reason you stood out seems obvious too. Saying you're curious to see what Milhouse specifically has to say is moving towards OMGUS/tunnelling, but hopefully won't become that.
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(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/917/576214.jpg)
Suddenly, little things to comment on. Lots of them.
Poster: I can mostly pass it off on the grounds of it being a 'still alive' post, but I trust your next move will resolve your position against the Commie despite your vote still being on Dawg without comment to the latter.
Commie: you're partially right. The image was made with o9k in mind, and then stretched over you as well. However the extended point - that your (and o9k's) lack of interaction with the game in general was leading to the arguments stagnating - stands.
o9k: Uh. Not liking where this is starting, but I'll at least let you get to your conclusion before condemning it outright. To answer the question, V/LA is short for Vacation / Limited Access. Oh, and no, someone not talking at all is exactly the sort of person not to vote for at all, unless the mod hates mod kills.
Ninja Poster: Oh. Okay. I think that renders everything consistent now.
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Didn't know what it stood for.
Not sure what to do at this point, since every post I'm making is just getting votes sent at my direction. It is frustrating since I would have been better off lurking for most of the day, which isn't townie play.
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(http://www.posters-artprints-and-pictureframes.com/images_articles/dem-achievement.jpg)
If you're going to be away, then pull something out now when it matters most.
Your last post was bad because:
- LaL < voting for scummy behaviour.
- - So find scummy behaviour to vote on.
- You say defending yourself isn't helping
- - And you're right! So look for new content, as opposed to letting yourself be backed into a corner.
- You start a list of comments
- - Finish it. Finishing thoughts is always pro-Town, holding back opinions is almost always anti-Town.
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I find it strange how Milhouse is so persistent in accusing me of hopping on an easy case when he specifically stated in the post where he first raised that suspicion that he himself did not see any other cases besides over 9000 worth pursuing at that time. There isn't much I can say when my ability to post comes at a time when the good cases have already been made, are you seriously going to tunnel on me when others could just as easily be accused of the same thing?
Because, so far, nobody so far besides maybe hueg liek XBOX has managed to coast so badly with the winning combo of negligible content+near-zero presence - and timeslot differences or not, we already have enough bordering on reporter-style nothing whatsoever glossing. Your tone, which seems to be just "oh I have nothing to say that others haven't said already so I'll disappear into the ether without a trace" while the topic trainwrecked further, doesn't give you a ton of actual oomph either. As far as it went for yesterday, the worst case of trying to ride on staying afloat straight out was yours. Maybe this is just -how- you presented it, in such a non-chalant, borderline non-caring manner, that it set me off. And I do that just to keep reminding myself to keep an eye on these cases, since the game won't end on Day 1. Just a friendly reminder there. As for XBOX, the lack of presence downright went down to a modkill prod - and when the absence reaches the point it did, I find that the mod will do a better job doing the prodding than I will. Not that it helped, since the content from him is also terrible so far - albeit at least a bit more opinionated. Both look pretty bad to me right now, but I honestly think there are scummier cases today to look at, and maybe this will get better next day. It's mostly up to you, boys.
That said, is there any more progress to be had within the debacles set up for this day? I'd want to see a bit more insight on the Crappy Fighting Game Mechanic/Pimp My Ride debacle, but at this point, things feel like they're becoming drawn out and tired. Although I hope at least 9.1 Inches can make something of a convincing "last stand" if it comes down to it.
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I'm trying to work through the players and the day, and I break up the post since it's taking forever and want to get something on record before I leave.
HUEG LIKE XBOX- Joined late with a recap post. Hard to draw much from this.
In Soviet Russia- ! I think he's been pounded on enough for his points, there is enough evidence to at least support a lynch. Doesn't look good, but I also don't want to jump on this until I'm sure.
lolcats- No idea. A lot of her talk's building cases against myself and and soviet and talk about Mafia in the meta sense.
Milhouse Is Not A Meme- Town read. He layed low until the joke phase was over, then jumped in. Prodded me, Zerg rush, others. He's interacting with several players and is trying to prod the debate along when he's around. Tone isn't perfectly cheerful, but I have no real complaints here.
OH GOD SHANA IS HOT- I don't agree with why she
Rickroll(Rick Astley)- No read. Rick's had one post and vanished for the past day.
I'm just repeating myself a lot, but again there isn't at on of content to go on with some players. Combo reads scum, lolcat is giving me a scum vibe and I can't articulate why, and I already commented on the players who feel the strongest townie.
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Just to clarify there O9K, your comment on Shana stopped mid-sentence. You're not agreeing with her about what exactly?
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If I read that way, I apologize, but it's in my nature to be Chillin' out maxin' relaxin' all cool And all shootin some b-ball outside of the school, not taking mafia super seriously is how I hold onto what little sanity I have.
Anyways, Over 9000, if you think those players are scummy, shouldn't you at least vote for them for pressure/prod for further comments so you can learn more about them? I've already pretty much answered your lurker prod, your declaration of who you think is scummy while just leaving your vote on someone who is no longer inactive, who you also neglect to comment on in any way is just not helping you at all.
I would still be asking this question even if the vote was on someone else who was lurking previously btw.
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alkjgas. Didn't triplecheck the post.
Shana: Don't agree with the case she made there against me, but she at least is interacting with various players. There's too much tunnel vision going on in this game.
And yeah.
##unvote: Boxxy/Bel Air
##vote: Combo breaker
I have no idea what soviet russia's doing, but combo breaker read the worst to me when doing that. I have absolutely no reason to vote lolcat at this point other than a feeling. Most of the other active players have a fairly townie vibe.
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No time for big post. Be back later hopefully, but for now gotta make this clear:
My original post:
The only person looking good right now is Advice Dog. Yo dawg.
Soviet Russia hasn't done itself any favors. I don't buy into the "generating discussion" thing that late into day 1. Could be a jester though ~_~
I also don't like lolcat's WIFOM support of Russia, but aside from that lolcat hasn't been terrible.
Boxy Air looks to be trying to get by on minimal content. Unhappy about this.
2girls achieves the same thing whilst looking like they post a lot. Which is more dangerous. It's hard to pick out the points in the conversations.
Zerg is weird, not sure if the vote on Dawg is as bad as others make it though.
As for Over 9000... the early no vote looked suspicious and all, but the descent into LAL looked worse to me.
Uh, Millhouse, you're afraid of a ninja hammer? On this guy?
Y'know, if scum ninja-hammered the guy we suspect to be scum, then that would be pretty awesome. Why are you afraid of this :\
Going to take a closer look at Millhouse.
Dawg... usually speculating on roles, especially in rolemadness, on Day 1 is bad juju. You're skating by on reporter style at the moment, but there's something more important to press on at the moment. Keeping my eye on you.
The role speculation thing is a complete misrepresentation about a 5 word throwaway line. He makes it sound like extensive role speculation about who the doc is.
The reporter style is equally a misrep.
Yo dawg, I heard u like trying to make me look bad so I put a vote on your record so you can hang while you lie.
Scumtell 'cos there's no need for town to do this.
I would say it's an overreaction to what I said and you're actually trying to paint me in a bad light now, since my main point was actually that Dawg was pretty much being a reporter at that point, but fine. You've got to do what you've got to do, especially since I guess it does look bad since I called Dawg on it and not some of the other people who've mentioned it.
Not painting you in a bad light. Quotations prove this. The bad light is your own.
@Demotivational - hopefully you can see where you went wrong there. My argument is not 'ridiculous'. I believe Combo is the best chance of finding scum today.
Combo > Over9k > Russia
(http://macrochan.org/thumbs/U/R/UR5UHUSOKTVW2WRW4YDKGRJHKLXZ3DAJ.jpeg)
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KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE!
On the subject of speculation about roles in role madness: Its pretty useless overall. Its called role madness for a reason. Worrying about Jesters is silly. For all we know, there's someone who wins the game if they get lynched on day two instead! Once you accept that the game is role madness and that Jester is possible, then you might as well throw in the hat as far as role guessing goes, because anything goes. If we lose to a Jester, then we lost due to questionable mod decisions. We can't not play the game due to silliness like that.
KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE!
On the main lynch candidates (9001 and Soviet Russia), I feel 9001 is the scummier candidate at this point. Frankly, I'm not really sure what Soviet Russia was going for (making questionable statements to get conversation going is not really a good plan if you ask me) but I just can't really figure how his behavior works out for scum except as a form of refuge in audacity. He certainly bears watching, and I wouldn't object to lynching him (daring scum gambit possibility does exist) but I feel that 9001 is the better candidate.
On the whole, 9001 has looked scummier to me, by attempting to appear as a contributing townie without... really adding anything. His actions regarding my train were odd, and his defense has consisted of vague reporter posts and... getting good vibes from people attacking him? This isn't exactly a solid defense here Honestly, I'm kind of curious why you opted to attack in on a lurker (and why, in going after lurkers, which I feel oddly included me, you ignored HUEG LIKE ULTRALISK) instead of addressing people involved or uninvolved in my lynch train. Given concerns about the results of an early train like that, I'm surprised that the people worried about quicklynches don't really focus in on that idea to some extent.
KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE!
I'm also kinda concerned about HUEG LIKE ULTRALISK not simply because of lurking and not because he was "getting away with it," but because the people calling out lurkers were ignoring him. If anyone who called on lurkers but ignored him flips scum, I definitely think he's worth looking further into.
KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE!
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No time for big post. Be back later hopefully, but for now gotta make this clear:
My original post:
The only person looking good right now is Advice Dog. Yo dawg.
Soviet Russia hasn't done itself any favors. I don't buy into the "generating discussion" thing that late into day 1. Could be a jester though ~_~
I also don't like lolcat's WIFOM support of Russia, but aside from that lolcat hasn't been terrible.
Boxy Air looks to be trying to get by on minimal content. Unhappy about this.
2girls achieves the same thing whilst looking like they post a lot. Which is more dangerous. It's hard to pick out the points in the conversations.
Zerg is weird, not sure if the vote on Dawg is as bad as others make it though.
As for Over 9000... the early no vote looked suspicious and all, but the descent into LAL looked worse to me.
Uh, Millhouse, you're afraid of a ninja hammer? On this guy?
Y'know, if scum ninja-hammered the guy we suspect to be scum, then that would be pretty awesome. Why are you afraid of this :\
Going to take a closer look at Millhouse.
Dawg... usually speculating on roles, especially in rolemadness, on Day 1 is bad juju. You're skating by on reporter style at the moment, but there's something more important to press on at the moment. Keeping my eye on you.
The role speculation thing is a complete misrepresentation about a 5 word throwaway line. He makes it sound like extensive role speculation about who the doc is.
The reporter style is equally a misrep.
Again, I don't particularly see where it's such a HUGE MISREPRESENTATION, unless you're into voodoo, and juju is a term for HOLY SHIT BAD THINGS to you. It's a fairly neutral statement on the inanity of Day 1 role speculation. If I'd kept my vote on you and pressed my case I could see where you would draw that conclusion, but... yeah.
Still on Soviet Russia. Over 9K is at least attempting to defend themselves and not grasping at straws at least (though am I really being rude? Honest question...) Most comfortable with lynching Soviet. I really want to see him try to explain why he's so convinced the No Lynch vote generated discussion and what observations, if any, he took out of it. The answer to this plus him actually starting to participate in the game in any real fashion would totally be awesome.
This may be repeating what I've already said, but it bears repeating to bring up a point. I don't like when people ask others to explain themselves without giving them specific things to explain (2girls1cup on Soviet) or saying they don't agree with cases on them while not explaining WHY they don't agree with them (Over 9K's statement about Shana's case on him).
Lurking poke to Rick Astley, who totally seems to be flying under the radar, unlike his hit song which topped the chart for none of those weeks in the 80's. 2girls1cup as well, who hasn't done much and did the whole "bring up a point but be incredibly vague on it" thing I don't like when they voted Soviet.
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In a rush, but I'll say that 9000.1's 'we should lynch lurkers even in the face of people acting scummy, also the Zerg train is dangerous but I won't follow up on it' and lack of new contribution do not help him.
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(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/5008/nitorimofsmall.png)
The scouter malfunction is looking worse and worse. I'm naturally wary of anyone that tries to build an opinion on everyone on Day 1, there are better projects toward which one can devote their time. Not to mention that several of the opinions are of shoddy quality - several useless null/inconclusive reads, lots of information regurgitation that reminds me of the tengu - and the project itself isn't even complete. I'm also raising an eyebrow at how he needs to follow directions from others, like being told to change his vote. Real engineers don't need directions, they know how to make stuff on their own! On the whole, this feels like scum making a last half-hearted effort to save themselves, and on top of every other error myself and many others have written notes on throughout the game, that's enough to get me to switch.
##Unvote, ##Vote: Over 9000 for L-1. Shame that Aperture Science isn't getting more of a site inspection than it has, but so it goes.
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(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/545/nitorichainsaw.jpg)
And now, to spotlight people I want to see more notes from tomorrow, lest they find themselves on the wrong end of my brand-new Vote-O-Matic 7000:
- The M$ Drone. Whatever your excuse for missing so much of the game, your lone meaningful post does not cut it in terms of making up for lost time.
- Rick Astley and All Your Base, especially the former. Both have mysteriously vanished.
- The guy with the Yama obsession, or whatever Shiki he's chasing. I actually liked his content when he was providing it and it makes me an unhappy kappa that he stopped.
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(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/7472/nitorishock.jpg)
Whoops, that's what I got for not measuring twice before I cut! Didn't mean to lump Shiki in with the other three, I don't expect I'll have much reason to vote him tomorrow. I remember agreeing with most of his content, while I can't remember a lot of what All Your Base said, and the other two speak for themselves.
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Votecount Is Not A Meme Is A Meme
Votecount
Zerg Rush: (1) - Over 9000, Advice Dog, Touhou Hijacker, Demotivator, O R'LYEH!?
OVER 9000: (9008) - Touhou Hijacker, Boxxy/Bel Air, Milhouse, Shana, Hueg Like XBOX, Advice Dog, The Cake is a Lie, Zerg Rush, All Your Base, Soviet Russia, Demotivator, Touhou Hijacker
OH GOD SHANA IS HOT (0) - Zerg Rush
Touhou Hijack LOL (0) - The Cake is a Lie, 2girls1cup, Shana
Advice Dog: (0) - Advice Dog, lolcat, Zerg Rush
lolcat: (0)- Demotivator
Hueg Like XBOX: (0) - Rick Astley
All Your Base: (0) - C-C-Combo Breaker, Shana
COMBO BREAKER: (2) - All Your Base, Yo Dawg, Over 9000
Soviet Russia: (6) - Milhouse, Yo Dawg, Rick Astley, lolcat, 2girls1cup, Bel Air, Milhouse, COMBO BREAKER
Rick Astley: (0) - 2girls1cup
The Cake is a Lie: (1) - Shana, Touhou Hijacker, Shana
Yo Dawg: (0) - All Your Base, COMBO BREAKER, Demotivator
Boxxy/Bel Air: (0) - Over 9000
No lynch: (0) - Soviet Russia
With 17 memes alive, 9 votes are required to deliver an axe to the face.
Over 9000 is at A-1!
Day 1 ends at 10am PST/1pm EST tomorrow, so that's roughly 13 hours from this post.
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This may be repeating what I've already said, but it bears repeating to bring up a point. I don't like when people ask others to explain themselves without giving them specific things to explain (2girls1cup on Soviet) or saying they don't agree with cases on them while not explaining WHY they don't agree with them (Over 9K's statement about Shana's case on him).
Lurking poke to Rick Astley, who totally seems to be flying under the radar, unlike his hit song which topped the chart for none of those weeks in the 80's. 2girls1cup as well, who hasn't done much and did the whole "bring up a point but be incredibly vague on it" thing I don't like when they voted Soviet.
(http://imgur.com/mT1eA.jpg) (http://imgur.com/mT1eA.jpg) "Uh-huh. Cute attempt at mudslinging, but boy, I've got more experience with mudslides than you'll get in a century of breaking up your own combos. I have not asked a thing of Soviet Russia, except rhetorically. Voting no lynch and sticking to it (the latter being the sin, the former having been a jokevote as mentioned earlier) is why my vote is on him; his theatrics only cement it. Attempting to plaster me with complete garbage and call it suspicious behavior only makes you look horrible. On your other points there, Rick Astley... actually disappeared after responding to me. This being said you're hardly the first to notice that, but whatever.
"Less comfortable with a 9000.000001 lynch than I was before - it reads more flailing town than scum - but the behavior and record is still not good enough that I'd actively oppose it. Would still far prefer In Soviet Russia, as the case has been outlined by others; the flailing and attempting to justify the joke-no lynch AFTER supporting it for a while, along with claiming it provoked discussion when it really didn't? Yeah, no. Not groovy. Gonna need to look over Breaker of Combos as well at this point.
"Ninja GATE post. Should be around for deadline, albeit possibly not coherently. For now, however, back to drinking."
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Comrades, brothers, sisters, glorious workers of the eternal union. Truly I am sorry about lack of much participation, due to work and other factors. It should be better now, as we work towards glorious Marxist revolution together.
On more consideration, Over 9000 I am willing to let go. Ees not playing so great, yet feels of genuine communist spirit now. Is trying to contribute and not get lynched, rather than promote scummy agenda and not get lynched.
Problem with this? IN SOVIET RUSSIA, UNVOTING LYNCH TARGET CHANGE TARGET TO YOU! Since I am also of the glorious spirit of Father Lenin I don't particularly feel like getting lynched either, but I have no matroshka doll observations within observations to pull out.
Proper response to no lynch argument was for citizens to state position on matter clearly, neither overreact nor underreact nor attempt to twist for own gain. Advice Dog pass, Milhouse pass, CATs sort of pass, OH GOD BEAUTIFUL MOTHER RUSSIA pass, Over 9000 pass, Zerg Rush pass, Lolcat pass...
2girls1cup (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99793.html#msg99793) and Bel Air present interesting case. Bel Air state reasoning for vote, is good. 2girls1cup snapvote. Ees good webcomic, but ees definitely overstating case with blaring red sirens (unless was joke on glorious red color?). 2girls very possible capitalist. Milhouse then come in with talk of two viable lynch cases. This very capitalist move, narrowing attention so early in day creates situation where indeed are only two lynch cases, but should not be true then!
So, Milhouse and 2girls come out looking very scummy here. "Very scummy" relative to day 1 of course, but such is life in Moscow.
Combo Breaker case exist but is also stupid like Keynesian economics. Basing case on fear of jesters and role speculation tempting but stupid either way. While Combo Breaker is next most viable lynch train, and does not read like communist brother like Over 9000 now does, the men of the motherland would prefer to lynch...
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99872.html#msg99872
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99911.html#msg99911
Oh wow check this out. Crazy blatant town herding on day 1, and accusing people of reporter style while reporting himself.
##Unvote: Over 9000
##Vote: Milhouse, who in Soviet Russia is meme
13 hours is pressed and we are sorry. Ees still time, though. Milhouse come out of reread looking very capitalist, who is up?
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(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/5025/reiseninsmall.png)
Ah, Comrade. Remember you from Sputnik Invasion. No hard feelings, Дa? Yet I cannot understand case. You say little boy herding town. How so? I read messages you link, can sort of see reporter charge, but not able to see boy trying to lead town down treacherous paths, and message look okay to me otherwise. Perhaps I not understand what is intended by "herding". You can explain more, Дa?
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Дa, comrade, Дa. Milhouse say things like "I hope 9.1 can make last stand" and "The game not end on day 1", in combination with earlier post referenced. He ees fixated on lynch being one of his candidates, "the debacles set up for this day." Tone indicates that he wishes discussion focused on lynching glorious soviet or Over 9000, he speak in way designed to make town take top cases for granted, with only slim allowances for other cases and pushing them off to tomorrow.
Worrying part is that he has done this since very early in the day! Very much like capitalist strategy, decide on one or two preferred townie lynches and subtly influence discussion to make rest of town feel like lynch must be one of them.
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I am pressed for time myself and will be restricting myself to commenting on some existing cases/trains at this stage. (omg Shiki loves me!!!11)
I still think... pretty much everyone... who talked about Jesters at all is horribly scummy but hey nobody seems to agree with me. Well, okay then. Whatever. Tomorrow will be a BRAND NEW DAY. In retrospect I've also changed my mind on cake being the worst offender there anyhow (after thinking it through I figured that musing over scum faking jester isn't quite as awful as my kneejerk gut said it was.)
I am prepared to lynch 9000. His last contributions have been rather lazy and show an uncaring attitude, imo. People say 'flailing', but.. honestly, it's not very enthusiastic flailing. My prior vote on him for piling on a lurker earlier stands. He doesn't feel like a newbie or anything from his posts, soo.
##Unvote of Delayed Retribution, ##Divide-By-Zero Negation Calculation: Over 9000
Russia utterly confuses me, I am surprised he did not stay on 9000 which would've been the typical scum action there. Starting a new case with 13 hours to go when your life is sort of maybe on the line? Very strange. I don't like strangeness as a rule. I do not like his case in Milhouse. Town herding? Is that another word for having an opinion? Shucks, I guess I'm a herder too.
RussiaNinja: Hmm. The thing about 9.1 making a last stand does seem a bit odd. But I'm not seeing anything else in the same bad light as you.
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To Soviet Russia: I honestly don't get what you're trying to build.
I also have to note that, eventually, just about anyone will enter into reporteering territory one way or another in a post or two. However, I have to take a beef when the -mass bulk of your content- is reporteering - which was Boxxy Air's case -and- XBOX's, currently. I also can't understand what kind of town herding are you trying to refer to - what abyss would I be trying to lead people into in those two particular posts or in general? I donno, but it looks to me that you're grasping at straws more than anything else: you neither clarified what appears so overtly scummy that we must switch into this train of thought nor elaborated clearly where Slingshot Girls themselves play into the scummytastica equation - it's like you're making up a theory out of thin air and expecting us to sheepishly buy it in a vacuum. All this only makes your general approach the more baffling.
And, as for "9.1's last stand", I put it in quotation marks for a reason - it honestly looked like it was his last opportunity to actually try to provide actual content given his circumstances (nearing a lynch, and managed to put his foot on his mouth -yet again) - and, in practice, more or less seems like it still, at least for the day, since he never even tried anything else besides reporteering. And when I refer to "the debacles set up for the day", this is because... well, that's what we're TALKING about. Those are the issues that are relevant -right now-, and those generate discussion. As for the lynch candidates... um. I'm clearly open to seeing more discussion on the other possibilities around (hence why I mentioned those "debacles" you're pinning over - like the Crappy Fighting Game Mechanic/Pimp My Ride weirdness, which I simply noted I'd like to see talked further, even because my read on it is murky besides what I already stated about it), but the two cases where we have overtly scummy behavior look pretty clear to me. Flailing and trying to pull off rabbits (no offense meant, Touhoulolz) out of a tinfoil hat won't make it better - au contraire. What I see of those tangents brought about - some of which I feel are worth looking but mostly didn't comment upon much or at all, like Cakeless debate and Yo/Advice Dog's seemingly gratuitous chummery (which I honestly think also deserves a look, but there's too little to glean from as it stands), or Rickroll's sudden vanishment into the ether - is that they're possible leads we should look at. Sure. However, there are two distressing cases that fly to our eyes and at least one of them needs solved ASAP - that and I've pegged both behaviors going on as blatantly anti-town since a rather long while ago, and I'd like to not ignore such blatant town foot-shooting when it's present.
This said, I'm tired and in need to go to sleep. Tempted to hammer 9.1 Inches now, as re-reading what I'm saying about him just reinforces how badly he behaved all over and how much I dislike that, but I'm willing to wait a little bit for a last-minute input from other players.
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(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/2761/th09reisenportrait.jpg)
Ah, I see now, Comrade. Subtle pushes is interesting conjecture, yes. Must be honest, however, not sure I can give much livestock to case, mostly because case seem founded in idea that two main trains both town, which I am having hard time believing. Also not sure issue is not just difference in word choice, as little boy himself talks about. In end, can at least see where you coming from, but cannot agree, not with any sort of confidence.
Moon rabbit from moon must return home. Vote stay on number. Should hammer and sickle not fall while gone, intend to be back before timed deadline, but cannot guarantee.
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(http://i45.tinypic.com/2dkimar.jpg)
Russia: Failing to see the town herding/reporter from Milhouse myself. The 9001 'last stand' made sense at the time, since he was bordering on lynch and was in the middle of making several posts to try and save himself.
Reading back over Dawg Breaker from Dawg's post, I'm agreeing with Dawg more, but both are still making the others look worse. Just, Dawg is less so, since Combo did dwell on the role speculation, but Dawg still pushed that over the more prominent reporter case. Still, Dawg >>> Combo, on that argument at least.
Deadline: I will not be around. Will hopefully stop by a couple of hours from deadline, but will miss the deadline itself. Hopefully I'll have more time after the weekend, but busy for deadline today, Saturday and Sunday. Happy to leave my post on 9001 for today, although if Russia is pushed forwards for lynch, I'd change when I get back. Both are bad, but 9001 is worse, but reads (recently) as bad Town. Doesn't forgive the earlier behaviour, though.
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(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/4894/578530.jpg)
My doggy empathy bends to emotional pleas more easily than it should, but o9k is close to having done nothing that I wouldn't consider scummy. Nothing to add about the recent developments there that hasn't already been said or wouldn't be better saved for post-game discussion.
More smoke and mirrors from the Commie that baffle. Sorry guys, but removing a vote from the other vote leader at this point still makes me think jester rather than scum. Mess mess mess. Hate the trap mentality; 'lol i troll u', while perhaps apt for the theme, is no good way for town to act.
I understand the potential evils of dichotomies, but don't get that reading from MINAM's posts.
MINAM: I have no extra information from which to divine Dawg's alignment, if that simplifies the cases you need consider. As much as I've only specifically agreed with him on one issue anyway.
Of some of the lesser spotted memes that I haven't really touched on before now:
It doesn't take a genius to award the big black box with championship lurking. Some sympathy for entering late with the day's cases formed, but the grace won't extend into day 2.
Even ignoring his disappearance, Rick looks absolutely terrible if o9k flips scum, for rather dubious support and funnelling to the Commie at a fairly key time.
Dawg doesn't bother me outside of actually positing that C-C-C-C looks worst, because no. Commie > o9k turning into o9k > Commie without comment isn't great either, but minor.
C-C-C-C again looks a lot worse should o9k flip scum, for reasons similar to Rick.
!Cake smells worse on a reread. Somehow didn't see !him not voting for the Koreans in a play similar to, but not as bad as, o9k, and then voting for him for it. Not sure how, given how much !he's had to spin it since. Way up the ranks if o9k flips town.
I'll more than likely be around for the deadline if things go that far, but really can't see me changing votes.
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Sorry one and all for disappearing, but I thought I had heard there was all star (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdrgtWBy7c4) kicking around somewhere, and who can miss a scoop like that?
Anyways, quick post with my thoughts before actually trying to back things up.
##Unvote: Soviet Russia, ##Vote: Milhouse is not a Meme
I actually buy the Commie's claims. And while it is looking like town v. town as the main attraction, 9k+ is looking worse than him, so if we're ready to lynch, I'm ready to drop my vote there. As for Milhouse, something's been rubbing me the wrong way about him the whole day, and I can't really say what it is right now. But, since this is a pretty worthless vote, I'll slap it on him in order to state that I don't like him.
Anyways, just a quick post to say I'm alive before moving on to a better reread.
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Votecount! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0)
Votecount
Zerg Rush: (1) - Over 9000, Advice Dog, Touhou Hijacker, Demotivator, O R'LYEH!?
OVER 9000: (9008) - Touhou Hijacker, Boxxy/Bel Air, Milhouse, Shana, Soviet Russia, Hueg Like XBOX, Advice Dog, The Cake is a Lie, Zerg Rush, All Your Base, Demotivator, Touhou Hijacker, Shana
OH GOD SHANA IS HOT (0) - Zerg Rush
Touhou Hijack LOL (0) - The Cake is a Lie, 2girls1cup, Shana
Advice Dog: (0) - Advice Dog, lolcat, Zerg Rush
lolcat: (0)- Demotivator
Hueg Like XBOX: (0) - Rick Astley
All Your Base: (0) - C-C-Combo Breaker, Shana
COMBO BREAKER: (2) - All Your Base, Yo Dawg, Over 9000
Soviet Russia: (5) - Milhouse, Yo Dawg, Rick Astley, lolcat, 2girls1cup, Bel Air, Milhouse, COMBO BREAKER
Rick Astley: (0) - 2girls1cup
The Cake is a Lie: (0) - Shana, Touhou Hijacker, Shana,
Yo Dawg: (0) - All Your Base, COMBO BREAKER, Demotivator
Boxxy/Bel Air: (0) - Over 9000
Milhouse: (2) - Soviet Russia, Rick Astley
No lynch: (0) - Soviet Russia
With 17 memes alive, 9 votes are required to deliver an axe to the face.
Over 9000 is at A-1!
Day 1 ends at 10am PST/1pm EST, so that's roughly 2 hours from this post.
-
Have read over thread, see little reason to move vote away from O9K. Will not be back until after deadline due to deadline being in the middle of one of my classes.
@Astley: if by your admission the vote you just placed is pretty useless, then why place it? The mind boggles.
Regarding Milhouse, I'm not seeing the reportering that greatly. I will need to reread his posts in greater detail than the time I have right now allows for, though, so yeah.
Regarding Dawg/Breaker, there seems to be mututal levels of, not so much misrep as overinflation of the significance of each other's statements. Dawg is correct in that Breaker read a bit too much into a rather pointless line about jesterspeculation, but similarly he himself should note that all that Breaker mentioned was essentially, again, a single throwaway sentence about that being bad, and it is clearly visible in the quotes you yourself posted. Not sure what to make of this.
Regarding jesterspeculation, it can go die in a fire. Jesterspeculation is pointless, all it does is lead town away from focussing on what they should be doing, namely lynching scum. Zerg Rush is right: for all we know there's some stupid role that wins when he gets lynched on day 2 or whatever, and if we lose to such a role, then that's questionable mod decisions, not bad play.
-
(http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/1723/pcblettycut.png)
Winter has returned, as it always does, but time grows short, and little new is to be said. I will linger until deadline, should any mind-blowing revelations come between now and then.
I do hope Mr. Astley's vote moves to a meaningful train before the day is over. I am willing to give Mother Russia a little slack in that regard, due to various environmental circumstances, but Mr. Astley does not have the same protection.
-
(http://i48.tinypic.com/2uxw6c7.jpg)
Well, this is me being around a couple of hours from the deadline, and I'm definitely not gonna be around for the deadline itself. Still happy for 9001 to go, since his scummy behaviour isn't counteracted by his reporting, even if it seems town-ish.
Idly, why do people keep leaving me out of their lists? I'd normally not complain, but I'd rather not be accused of flying under the radar in a day or two, since that keeps happening to me.
Oh, and Rick. He, uhh, exists. Sort of. Not as hardc04r lurker as Xbox, but definitely needs to post more. Will look terrible if today's lynch is scum, and definitely looking for more from him soon.
---
All Your Base are hijacked by Touhou Ninjas: Mostly what's either already been said or what I've written here. Makes AYB's low content look good, at least.
-
People want me to make a meaningful vote? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdrgtWBy7c4)
##Unvote: Milhouse, ##Vote: Over 9000
Done.
Also, that is hammer, which is why I didn't make it before. But who am I to oppose popular request.
-
Stop, Hammertime!
-
"Hey wait, I remember that guy! He was a scum mason in the other game, we better kill him now just to be safe!"
"Yeah, good idea!"
"What? No, wait, guys, I'm not Vegeta! I'm just that one memetic phrase of his! Honest! ...put down the axe, come on..."
*CRACK* *CRITICAL!*
Over 9000, TOWN Meddling Kid, has been hit in the face with an axe really hard...for 9999 damage, of course.
Final Votecount
Zerg Rush: (1) - Over 9000, Advice Dog, Touhou Hijacker, Demotivator, O R'LYEH!?
OVER 9000: (9009) - Touhou Hijacker, Boxxy/Bel Air, Milhouse, Shana, Soviet Russia, Hueg Like XBOX, Advice Dog, The Cake is a Lie, Zerg Rush, All Your Base, Demotivator, Touhou Hijacker, Shana, Rick Astley
OH GOD SHANA IS HOT (0) - Zerg Rush
Touhou Hijack LOL (0) - The Cake is a Lie, 2girls1cup, Shana
Advice Dog: (0) - Advice Dog, lolcat, Zerg Rush
lolcat: (0)- Demotivator
Hueg Like XBOX: (0) - Rick Astley
All Your Base: (0) - C-C-Combo Breaker, Shana
COMBO BREAKER: (2) - All Your Base, Yo Dawg, Over 9000
Soviet Russia: (5) - Milhouse, Yo Dawg, Rick Astley, lolcat, 2girls1cup, Bel Air, Milhouse, COMBO BREAKER
Rick Astley: (0) - 2girls1cup
The Cake is a Lie: (0) - Shana, Touhou Hijacker, Shana,
Yo Dawg: (0) - All Your Base, COMBO BREAKER, Demotivator
Boxxy/Bel Air: (0) - Over 9000
Milhouse: (1) - Rick Astley, Soviet Russia
No lynch: (0) - Soviet Russia
It is now Night Phase 1. Please send in all night actions.
Also, as a note about the game, there is to be no talking during the night phase without permission. If you just want to do random entertainment stuff, wait for morning or post it in the signups thread. Thank you.
-
(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/5659/578927.jpg)
My role specifically allows me to speak during night phases. It does not contradict the rule in the above post.
And to clarify, no, not only after town lynches, as the picture may seem to imply. That's just me reflecting on what my 'sure bet' has resulted in.
I'm expecting there to probably be a bunch of others who can speak at night as well. It'd sure be lonely to be alone.
I don't have the time now to make a full reflection or post random stuff (I do have something in mind). Plan to later.
Just in case the night phase ends up being really short, the general sentiment is genuine surprise at the flip. This obviously removes the big red marks looming over Rick and C-C-C-C, since their key points to change vote from o9k to the Commie are no longer obviously relevant, regardless of Commie's alignment. Rick's hammer was a bit sudden, but I can't imagine would have changed anything. !Cake looks worse from the flip, as the key 'hypocritical' vote on o9k looks more like a premature jump onto an easy case. Probably wouldn't look so bad without the hypocrisy.
Doubt I can just leave Commie for much longer. Ever so slowly actually getting into the game, but so much trolling.
Day one lurkers really need to get in early on day two. The big black box is now particularly badly placed.
Oh, and Posters: sorry, thought I'd referenced you directly before, but I guess not. Not that I've actually talked about everyone. For the record, as of the end of day one I see you as second towniest of my fellows, behind the Hijack.
-
(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/3695/580227.jpg)
Really? No one else (yet)? I was expecting the ability to be a dime a dozen after how the previous game went. Sure feels cold out here.
Uh, well in which case it can wait till tomorrow morning. I'm kind of busy this evening. I'll see what I can sniff out then, and introduce Robot Unicorn Attack as well.
-
(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/739/1267278955686.jpg)
No one else? Really? Crazy. I'm no show dog, so I've not been trained to entertain as you may have come to expect from the night phases from the previous game. But as we're memes it's important to know the emerging trends, to preserve our own places on the internet.
Tonight I present to you: Robot Unicorn Attack (http://games.adultswim.com/robot-unicorn-attack-twitchy-online-game.html).
Having lived a quiet life on Adult Swim for several weeks, it suddenly shot to popularity when /v/ found it and fell in love with the inherent masculinity of controlling a robotic unicorn galloping along a mystical fairy landscape full of rainbows, dolphins and pink things, and the accompanying music from Erasure really sealed the deal. /v/ underwent a brief makeover to celebrate finding the game of the year ("like that helicopter game but for bros"). Suddenly a peace loving bunch, /v/ spread the love to /co/ and /a/, which also broke under the strain of the love, and the three boards lived in harmony for a brief time. It was to be short-lived, however, and the anger-fuelled hate-filled norm has returned.
Here's some key reconnaissance on the one day meme, none of which is my own material (including the song):
(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/9259/1267483216461.png)
(http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/1374/1267483986656.jpg) (http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/3374/1267483666248.png) (http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/4010/1267299486199.png)
(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/2950/1267305649147.png)
(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/3081/1267483268261.jpg)
**** (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbNmi9qpMAM)
Wish the unwishable,
Love the unlovable,
Row! Row!
Rainbow powah!
Jump the unjumpable,
Dash the undashable,
Row! Row!
Rainbow Powah!
What you're gonna do is what you wanna do
Just break the stars when you see the light, uh huh
This is the theme of harmony comin' through, baby
Row! Row!
Rainbow powah!
Power to the peeps, power for the dream
Still missing peace scattering, so incomplete
We be the most incredible unicorn from over ground
See how easy, they all fall down
Dashin' through the stars to see the light
Let's get out of here babe, that's the way to survive
Top of the head, I'm on the set
Wish the unwishable, don't you wanna bet?
Cuz, a lot of things changed, we be retryin' in vain
If you wanna get by, no pain no gain
Wow! Adult Swim wanna test me again
Sorry, my wish's gonna snatch your brain
I'm still tryin' to get past that hill
We gonna make it happen with the crazy dash skill
Get ready to rumble, now is the time, uh huh
If you don't know, now you know
Good luck fellows! Ha ha!
Wish the unwishable,
Love the unlovable,
Row! Row!
Rainbow powah!
Jump the unjumpable,
Dash the undashable,
Row! Row!
Rainbow powah!
What you're gonna do is what you wanna do
Just break the star when you see the truth
This is the theme of harmony comin' through, baby
Row! Row!
Rainbow powah!
Second verse dedicates to the real peeps
What we gotta say is so real thing
Cuz, your wish ain't never gonna reach the skies
Kickin' the mad flow, unicorn rainbow type
You're on your third try, seeing through the overground
I'm about to hit you with the dash from the unicorn
Whole city is covered with the cyber flavor
Harmony is in your area, one of the toughest enigma
Wish the unwishable,
Love the unlovable,
Row! Row!
Rainbow powah!
Jump the unjumpable,
Dash the undashable,
Row! Row!
Rainbow powah!
What you're gonna do is what you wanna do
Just break the stars when you see the truth, uh huh
This is the theme of harmony comin' through, baby
Row! Row!
Rainbow powah!
Wish the unwishable,
Love the unlovable,
Row! Row!
Rainbow powah!
Jump the unjumpable,
Dash the undashable,
Row! Row!
Rainbow powah!
What you're gonna do is what you wanna do
Just break the stars when you see the truth, uh huh
This is the theme of harmony comin' through, baby
Row! Row!
Rainbow powah!
Wish the unwishable,
Love the unlovable,
Row! Row!
Rainbow powah!
Jump the unjumpable,
Dash the undashable,
Row! Row!
Rainbow powah!
What you're gonna do is what you wanna do
Just break the stars when you see the truth, uh huh
This is the theme of harmony comin' through, baby
Row! Row!
Rainbow powah!
Row! Row!
Rainbow powah!
-
(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/3520/589315.jpg)
So, serious stuff. Right. I was kind of expecting to have people to bounce ideas off of rather than an empty stage, but never mind.
The first piece of the puzzle is the Commie's alignment, not that he should be lynched just for the sake of information, as if he's scum then key votes on the o9k train come into focus. The trouble is that I really can't understand the play as scum, as regardless of how it has turned out, there was so much risk of getting lynched. No way of knowing the prevailing wind would be to o9k, no way of being sure that o9k wouldn't suddenly improve, and sure as hell no way of being sure that it won't just lead to a day two lynch anyway. The only thing that I can now see as a scum move is the move from o9k to MINAM towards the end of the day, as by that point o9k's lynch was just about inevitable.
Okay, so I've made slower progress than I'd hoped to. The player count and simple voting play is making it hard to draw much out (especially when I'm expecting scum to be spread out). I was hoping to catch people out for being suspiciously convinced of o9k's townieness (because no, he played a heavily scummy day), but it turns out that there was no strong support for him after the Boxxed Air vote. I'd still be looking to lead out against !Cake and the worst of the lurkers at this point. Maybe C-C-C-C. Other main thing I want to re-read are CATS's and the cats' play so far, as they're the two peripheral scents I haven't got enough of yet.
May well post again at some point in the next handful of hours if night's still running / I'm still alive.
-
(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/4885/632292.jpg)
On again briefly. I'd do this all in one go, but the thing is that it's a lot harder to guess when night phases will end in comparison to day phases, so I don't know which chance will be the last.
All I've had time for is a quick re-read of CATS, which was negative but relatively inconclusive. I agree with Shana/Shiki/New Hotness that this (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99758.html#msg99758) post is terrible, but see less of it in the rest of the posts. What I do find intriguing is how CATS is very light in the discussion of the Commie. Let's the 'lol, no really, let's not lynch' post kind of just slide and otherwise doesn't mention him at all. Points hashed to death by other players etc. etc., but no opinion at all? Also one of the people to be oddly supportive of o9k early on, but I really don't think I can press that against anyone when it was before his later posts.
Also a bit weirded out by CATS's and New Hotness's co-dependence of sorts on o9k:
...................................................................................aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand you go on to vote for a lurker. Who has lurked for over a day and thus is someone the mod will likely be yelling at right now. Combined with zero useful analysis of anyone. You know, I think I'm starting to see Shiki's point here.
##Unvote
##Vote: Over 9000
Right. On the other hand, I agree with you on 9000 now.
Mostly weird on account of the New Hotness's opinion on o9k immediately before CATS's post above was:
case on over9000 is UNINTERESTING. may have no opinion. sign of badness, not scumness.
Maybe I'm just missing something in my rush here.
Back later, if there is later.
-
All night PMs have been sent out, Day 2 will officially open as soon as I finish my writing for the day and have the time for it. <_<
-
The next day had come, and with it, two more dead memes.
Yo Dawg, the pimper of rides everywhere, had been found under the rear tires of a monster truck, with a tag on his foot reading "Yo Dawg I heard you like rides, so I put a truck on your head so you can ride while you die."
Meanwhile, lolcat was nowhere to be found at all. Not in the ceiling, not in the basement, and not even at the nearest cheezburger shop! A quick search of her possesions turned up some interesting evidence though, such as a large collection of anti-town pictures and propaganda.
Yo Dawg, Town Body Double was pimped by a ride!
lolcat, Scum Taboo Artist has mysteriously vanished!
It is now the beginning of day 2. With 14 memes alive and kicking, it takes 8 votes to axe someone in the face!
As of 5PM PST/8PM EST(so about 10 minutes from now), day 2 has 72 hours remaining!
-
Cat and Dawg die together? I have one thing to say in response to this:
(http://i50.tinypic.com/8ytmif.jpg)
Good NK is good. Interesting to see an extra death in N1, but it's worked out, so not complaining.
Looking at D1 interactions... Not finding much to go on, admittedly. Dawg spent most of his time with Advice Dog against Combo, but that doesn't really tell us anything. Lolcat sticks with Russia for... wow, pretty much the whole day.
What I'm looking at for now, though, are the roles that've flipped. Or, more specifically, looking at the role of Body Double, I'm wondering if Yo Dawg was the intended kill of the Mafia. 'Course, this is just mild speculation while I look around for other people, and wait for some input from our quieter members from D1. There are way too many of them, but I'm strangely suspicious of AYB. Can't place why, though. (that said, was right on that with Lolcat. >.>)
Oh, and of course, Soviet Russia remains the most suspicious. The NKs don't do a damn thing to change that, seeing as Lolcat was on Russia early and there are huge number of WIFOMy reasons that vote could've stayed there. On that note:
##Vote: Soviet Russia
-
(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/8913/652862.jpg)
Harmony Harmony (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSMeUPFjQHc)
First off, no attempt was made on my life last night, nor was I roleblocked or the like. I say this because Dawg's role sounds like it might be akin to the sort of bodyguard who dies on successful protection, and if so there was a good chance of him protecting me last night. I don't know. Obviously, not saying to speculate the night actions or the like (as it's just as / more likely that he just was the NK target, let alone what his role actually did), but given we were picked out for being chummy yesterday I figure it's a question people might have had for me. No, I am unaware of any attempt on my life last night.
Next, leading out with:
##VOTE: THE CAKE IS A LIE
For reasons outlined at the end of day 1 and during night 1.
This is without the information of lolcats' flip, who I can't really claim to have been strongly on the trail of - they were just upsetting my sensibilities the most out of the most active posters. I'll now actually go and read back over the cats, as it's suddenly immensely relevant, and see if that turns up more obvious suspects.
Ninja Poster: yeah, I figured there'd be speculation over Dawg's role. And yes, I expect there to be scum on both of yesterday's trains, regardless of the Commie's own alignment.
-
(http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/5442/th09ayaportraitmirror.jpg)
Greetings, everyone! This is the humble tengu reporter, Aya Shameimaru, bringing you the latest news from Gensokyo! Our top story today: I'm getting another game! (http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Double_Spoiler) BOO-YAH, MOTHERFUCKERS! Can't touch this, the fastest in Gensokyo! Make sure you all pick up a copy when it gets released on March 14th!
In other, less important news, town resident Over 9000 was lynched yesterday. Authorities are on the case, trying to figure out who might have wished him ill. Of course, Bunbunmaru News staff have done some of their own investigations, however, and one suspect in particular stands out in the form of HUGE LIKE XBOX.
Xbox has already been loosely covered, most notably by local vampire witness Remilia Scarlet (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99876.html#msg99876), kappa engineer Nitori Kawashiro (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99938.html#msg99938), and field reporter Momizi Inubashiri (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99992.html#msg99992). However, we will review his lone meaningful post in order to properly summarize the case against him for our readers.
First, there is the misunderstanding of the Yo Dawg/Combo Breaker back-and-forth, a clarification of which can be found in Scarlet's eyewitness report. The misinformed nature of these comments rather invalidate them as content. Please refer to our website's links for more information.
Next, there is this direct quote from Xbox himself:
I overall think that Over 9000 has been stupidly unhelpful and outright scummy, but I think Yo Dawg's charge is pretty illogical. I'm not sure what to think of either, but overall I think Over 9000 is worse so I shall actually keep my original vote on him.
Where he does not explain why he thinks Over 9000 is scummy or why he thinks Over 9000 is scummier than Yo Dawg. While the case had been made many times, it is still important to state exactly what opinions upon which you agree with others. He does not even seem to be positive about his opinions himself, if "I'm not sure what to think of either" is any indication.
Finally, there is his analysis of Soviet Russia, which boils down to a useless "he could be new town, he could be scum or he could be a jester". He then procees to not only explain why any of those three options are more or less likely than the other, but give himself a pass from forming an opinion entirely! This is not helpful in the slighest and could very easily be the actions of a scum unsure of how to approach strange Day 1 behavior.
On the whole, were this post one of many, it might have been temporarily dismissable if the others had more content, but as the only meaningful Day 1 post to Xbox's name, it looks more like scum lurking. Of course, as a reputable news source, Bunbunmaru News would be remiss to actively take sides instead of simply stating the facts, but were my personal opinion asked, it would definitely fall here: ##Vote: HUGE LIKE XBOX
The Cake Is a Lie continues to be suspicious, as nothing he did as the day wound down did much to improve his image. Field reporter Inubashiri has also recently provided a report on this issue. (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99992.html#msg99992)
There is also the matter of 2girls1cup, who made a misinformed case on Rick Astley and then jumped onto an easy Soviet Russia case while cheerleading the case against Over 9000. Regarding this, our publication's official stance on Soviet Russia is that we do not believe him to be scum. Fellow Gensokyo resident Yukari Yakumo has already discussed our feeling on the matter of the major charge against him (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99795.html#msg99795). Of course, we will have to rethink our stance in Soviet Russia's case against Milhouse, though memory of Milhouse's Day 1 performance still casts him in a generally positive.
Well have further information as our stories develop.
Of course, this was all written before lolcat's flip, which...I didn't actually remember many interactions he had, and the one I DID remember was the talk with Yo Dawg, who, well. Quick reread shows that he actually didn't do a whole lot of talking about anyone beyond the Soviet Russia vote. There's a lot of game theory going on here. Very little in the way of other players interacting with him, too: the overwhelming majority of non-flavor comes from Over 9000 and Yo Dawg.
The most meaningful thing I remember seeing was 2girls1cup's rather reportery-style post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99717.html#msg99717) just has some reportery stuff in lolcat's direction.
...Actually, upon another quick re-read, I'm seeing a LOT of reportery stuff coming from 2girls1cup and very little meaningful contribution, and...you know, these posts really read like using reporting and the occasional opinion to maintain active lurking. I think I'm actually going to change my mind here. ##Unvote, ##Vote: 2girls1cup. There's room for only one reporter here, missy, and I don't see you with a new game coming out this month.
Ninja'd by Advice Dog. I wasn't really planning on speculating on roles, but I'll also say I wasn't informed that I was attacked last night.
-
(http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/7844/sten.png)
Where is the cake? I was told there would be cake.
The cat's death is fortuitous and intruiging. A reread is in order.
9k flipping Town is a disappointment. I will not believe that his death was unnecessary - his play earned it. The positioning of my vote is simply misfortune on my part.
I also hold that I'd made comments already D1 and I was relatively serious about my initial vote for the young girl, so moving to the Zerg seemed unnecessary. It was not a case beyond 'he's saying naughty words'.
Soviet Russia, I am unconvinced by. His play does not seem to reward the uninformed minority, regardless of how moronic it may be. He irritates me, but not enough to clinch a vote.
As for today, I am looking slightly elsewhere compared to others.
##Vote: Shana/Shiki
Day 1 voting pattern:
-Random vote on Touhou
-Unvote, Vote Cake, Unvote, Vote AYB in the same post
-Declares absolute horror at Soviet's No Lynch suggestion, then disregards it
-Massive misrep of my 'he is unlikely to be jester' point against o9k, back onto me
-Despite this, moves back onto o9k at the end of the day along with another pile of points against Soviet.
Jumping between opinions with such haste and cheerleading the Soviet case so strongly do not impress me. It feels somewhat like lynches are being lined up here.
I hope to have read the feline's contributions by my next post to see if analysis can be gleaned.
-
(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/9136/653088.jpg)
Yeah, so the cats were on the Commie all day yesterday, as already pointed out. I agree that this says nothing for the Commie's alignment. Frustratingly he talked about pretty much no one at all outside of the two leading trains, other than me during the joke phase, and Zerg Rush regarding post clarity. Hindsight is 20-20 for reading scumminess throughout his posts, so go figure I see it in spades now.
Likewise, I'm not finding much of people commenting on the cats from a quick search. Confirmed Townie Dawg liked them and Confirmed Townie o9k thought him scummy, for all the good that does us now. Beyond that I can only find my own minor admonishments, and the Commie claiming them to have passed their ridiculous 'test'. Far less than I'd like to work with.
So no, I'm starting at roughly the same position I was at during the night.
PRESS PREVIEW
MASSIVE NINJAS
Yeah, so I'm going to just post this first and then read those.
-
(http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/1456/pmissayacrop.jpg)
Of course, we will have to rethink our stance in Soviet Russia's case against Milhouse, though memory of Milhouse's Day 1 performance still casts him in a generally positive.
Need to hire some more editors to catch these typos! This should say "generally positive light".
And while it's been highlighted for everyone to read, I've gone over the transcription of the Milhouse interview and am still getting townie vibes from him.
Wha- Cake, what are you doing, popping in like Sakuya? Gotta say, I don't like your "yay a scum died sad to see a townie lynch" and pre-defense of wagon positioning too much there. Kinda makes me want to blow the voting winds back your way, but I want to hear from the life partners first.
-
IN SOVIET MAFIA, TOWN NIGHTKILL SCUM! (Ahhh comrades, who did not see that one coming? (And before any comrade speculates, no, this is not me claiming (or denying) responsibility for it.))
Cake post give uncomfortable Trotsky vibes. Death of comrade never inevitable, and ees very capitalist to speak in such terms. Strong dislike for the Meelhouse herding yesterday, and equal strength of dislike for Cake tone today. And nyet - Cake case on Hot Girl, it sort of make sense. Brave soviets also dislike Propaganda Poster, for quick role speculations and behavior of immediate followup on other major train from day 1, but as that train is self, views may be tempered with "oh my Father Lenin you suck" and irritation at Soviet day 1 strategy going not as planned.
One thing lolcat flip definitely do is show capitalists are lurking in shadows. lolcat presence, very little, reasonable to assume some other capitalists doing same, is uncommon for only one member of spy team to lurk. Posts are necessary, from other lolitas with little presence on day 1, yes. In particular Soviets can remember no impression of All Consuming Base of Labor and Steadfast Never To Give Comrade Up Entertainer.
##Vote: Рицк Астлей (Rick Astley)
since comrade of Base at least helpfully corrected mother tongue in early game!
-
KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE!
Having looked back through lolcat's posts... I'm kinda surprised to see how very little they actually commented in-game. Like, next to nothing of value was said. They primarily attacked Russia and focused on the WIFOMY elements of the arguments around him, complained about my posting style, talked about lurkers (and vaguely dismissed them, in some regards) and joke voted Advice Dog. Hurrah.
Risk taking scum team-up with Russia seems possible if you assume them going with some sort of high risk, high reward scenario.
Relatedly, I do find the late day vote switch of Russia's to be somewhat strange, considering the cases involved. Generally speaking, townies, when confronted with the major lynch cases being them and someone else, should always fight hard to keep their own necks intact, since they are themselves the only 100% guaranteed townie. Given he was still in notable danger at that point, it seems weird to not have kept the vote there, while making the other cases. Its hard not to see this as something of an attempt to be able to show up on Day 2 and go "Well, look how clever I was!"
KEKEKEKEKEKEKE!
Concerns about Cake from yesterday remain.
Looking back, I also notice they emphasized my "unfriendliness" (he notes it twice) which seems pretty iffy to me, as it was basically attacking me for what should have been pretty clear as flavor. In fact, much like lolcats, Cake really didn't have much to say yesterday beyond the "shouldn't push the zerg case further" thing and focus in on 9001/Russia.
I REALLY do not like the Jester backpedal. At all. To quote.
9000.1 is getting continually worse. 'Hey, let's STILL give no opinions and jump on a lurker! No wonder I'm almost as strong as Kakarot!' It gets to the point where you have to wonder if he really IS a jester...which concerns me slightly, but it's a WIFOM at best.
Soviet ACTUALLY TRYING TO PRESS A NO LYNCH THEN TURNING AROUND AND SAYING IT WAS TO BUILD DISCUSSION makes me want to flood his head with a neurotoxin. Doing so would put him at L-1, though, and it's not impossible for Vegeta!Scum to fake jester if they've been told that the setup has third-party and bastard mod in it. Holding for now.
This was not an excuse to do something. This was me saying 'no, this jester WIFOM is stupid, we shouldn't let 9000.1 away with scummy play because he MIGHT be fool'. I'm more convinced at this moment that 9000.1 is scum, and given that he's likely going to die anyway, what's likely to happen if we're wrong on Soviet? Vegeta throws a quickhammer and at least manages to waste a day for Town before his inevitable death.
I don't understand how I've been misinterpreted as saying 'Soviet might be jester, better not lynch him!' I was saying '9000.1 probably ISN'T jester, so why the hell aren't we lynching him?'
Post number two really reeks of revisionist history to me, and given the aggression in it, I'm not getting an apologetic townie "Sorry, I misspoke" vibe from it. His first post indulges in a bit of WIFOM/fear mongering and then he goes out his way to say that his entire point is that 9001 probably isn't a jester! Well then why claim the potential concerns you at all? Giving any credence at all to the jester concept is still giving credence to it. You didn't say Jester WIFOM was stupid. You said it "concerns you slightly, but..." Not the same thing at all. Also, the whole "I want to kill Russia, but scum 9001" is kinda... iffy to me. While the sentiment itself is all right in some regards, the strength of your statement AGAINST Russia juxtaposed with the statement about fearing 9001 quick lynch feels really odd.
The general, casual reporter restatement of the obvious events also isn't particularly good here. Pretty much agree with Tohou in regards to not liking the preemptive defense. And, of course, given my above opinions on what I'm seeing as quasi-revisionist history, the fact that you are using that as a springboard to attack OH GOD is not really a good start to me.
##Vote: The Cake is a Lie
KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE!
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Well... I can see both my #2 (Over 9K) and #3 (Dawg) suspects from yesterday are C-C-C-COMBO CLEARED! by today's flip. lolcat... there were too many lurkers yesterday to be surprised one of them was scum. Their vote on Russia was early, one of many in a chain of early Soviet voters, but interestingly the first to mention the No Lynch as part of it. After that though, they really don't converse with anyone enough to incriminate.
Soviet, how would you say that Milhouse was herding? On a re-read, they're definitely pretty strongly worded arguments, but it's hard to call it attempting to herd town. Milhouse came off as one of the more townie people to me yesterday. I also don't see any of the "quick role speculation" you're accusing Demotivational Poster of. Care to provide some examples? It honestly seems like you're grasping at straws.
Cake's argument on Shana is... interesting. I saw Shana yesterday as low-post count, but at least some good observation from them. However, the voting behavior casts a much different view upon that, especially when she jumps from here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99763.html#msg99763), where they jump down All Your Base's throat, to here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99780.html#msg99780),which is still kind of edgy with them, tohere (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99792.html#msg99792), where she totally agrees with them and jumps on O9K. Cake demonizes it a bit more than necessary, but it doesn't change the facts about the voting history and looks suspicious enough to call out.
Looking worst for me though currently, is X-Box. I was confused on why I couldn't find X-Box's vote on Over 9K... until I checked the first page... IT WAS THEIR JOKE VOTE. They rode out their joke vote the entire day. For this alone I say...
##VOTE: HUGE LIKE X-BOX
The order the mod listed the votes as at the end of day is wrong, or at least makes it look less conspicuous than it actually is. X-Box was actually the SECOND JOKE VOTE on Over 9K and they never changed their vote. This combined with the lurking screams out to me more than anything else.
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Cake: I'm not really sure what to make of your suspicions. Yes, I did change my vote several times (how is doing so more than once in one post any kind of tell, btw?), and my reasons for doing so felt sound. On the cheerleading charge... uh. Both of them looked bad, so I apologize for having negative opinions on an alternative train as well. You seemed to agree!
9000.1 is getting continually worse. 'Hey, let's STILL give no opinions and jump on a lurker! No wonder I'm almost as strong as Kakarot!' It gets to the point where you have to wonder if he really IS a jester...which concerns me slightly, but it's a WIFOM at best.
Soviet ACTUALLY TRYING TO PRESS A NO LYNCH THEN TURNING AROUND AND SAYING IT WAS TO BUILD DISCUSSION makes me want to flood his head with a neurotoxin. Doing so would put him at L-1, though, and it's not impossible for Vegeta!Scum to fake jester if they've been told that the setup has third-party and bastard mod in it. Holding for now.
How is this not the same thing you accuse me of doing?
On the matter of Soviet, I do not have a pressing need to lynch him today owing, yes, to lolcat's early vote for him (it feels... strange... to entirely dismiss this, demotivational-poster-man. The numbers make it seem likely to be scum were focusing on the 9000train, and this would really go double if Soviet is in fact scum- which makes it more unlikely that lolcats was bussing. It is possible but unlikely, see? It isn't like the case on Soviet did not have enough merit to potentially get through, so I would imagine some scum wariness there. To continue to extrapolate, the way he was playing/lurking, it seems doubtful lolcats would continue bussing a buddy on day 1 for the town cred benefits.)
I also just quickly checked through Demotivational's posts, as is the done thing when something doesn't feel right. Don't like what I saw! He has been extremely light on content, even though the posters make his posts look substantially bigger than they are. His voting on 9k did not have much behind it and seemed to be of convenience, a feeling emphasized when we see him voting 9k over Russia whilst the votes were tied, and then... later saying "Oh, yeah, I'll vote Russia if his train comes back!"
So this made me feel worse on Russia conditional on demotivational's scumness, a prospect that seems slightly more than Cake's (despite how much I find myself coming to agree with zergnin-
C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!!!
Actually I have nothing to respond to. If you feel my observation is good, then... maybe you might also see why I changed my votes.
Anyway. Belated vote for DeMo. Did I mention I don't like 'yep let's vote Russia DISREGARD evidence he may not be scum'? I think I implied it? Well, I don't like it. ##YOU CAN BE MORE APPROACH: Demotivational Poster
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Hrn. I have noted an issue with my own post on demotivational. Although I don't like either his fast vote on russia or the way he selected 9k over russia yesterday, the link I thought may exist between them doesn't really exist in the way I thought it did (since if he's actively dodging a russia lynch on day 1, it doesn't make much sense to come out on him day 2. Unless it's a bus, I guess.)
So I'm not so sure about that, which tells me not to pre-emptively think of pairings, I guess.
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(http://i48.tinypic.com/25ja5ch.jpg)
I did specifically say I was waiting for posts from others, and this is exactly why.
One thing lolcat flip definitely do is show capitalists are lurking in shadows. lolcat presence, very little, reasonable to assume some other capitalists doing same, is uncommon for only one member of spy team to lurk. Posts are necessary, from other lolitas with little presence on day 1, yes. In particular Soviets can remember no impression of All Consuming Base of Labor and Steadfast Never To Give Comrade Up Entertainer.
So you're using WIFOM to support a lurker vote, and using a ridiculous reason to choose between the two. (And, again, the lurker prods miss out the Xbox.) Vote's staying where it is.
To Shiki-fan, this is exactly why I requested opinions of me. I've had little time this week (should have more after the weekend, hopefully) and figured I'd be accused of flying under the radar. Evidence Russia might not be scum? What evidence? My point was that there is no evidence, since the flips change nothing regarding his alignment, and the bad D1 play (now combined with a bad start to D2) leaves him looking terribad.
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Evidence Russia might not be scum? What evidence? My point was that there is no evidence, since the flips change nothing regarding his alignment
This is essentially it, saying the flip changes nothing seems quite wrong to me.
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(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_woU5s2fwbZo/Sb9r7mbGWNI/AAAAAAAA9xs/wQDzHliuV3E/s400/jedimindtricks.2f8cjhsav8ysk08owgo0ocggc.ap2qhjyqp08cgc0c80ss4cco4.th.jpeg)
What -does- the flip change then? 9001 was Town, so this says nothing about Russia. Yo Dawg's flip doesn't really change things at all, unless there's something I've missed..?
As for Lolcat, since that's the only one that might have any impact. If Russia is Town, then Lolcat is scum trying to keep a low profile and push the main two lynch-trains. If Russia is Scum, Lolcat could have been looking for town credit by being the first on a scum train, could have been looking to clear Russia with a move like this, etc. It's pure WIFOM at best, and I'm not walking into that one.
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(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/8656/654826.jpg)
Sorry New Hotness, but the flips really do say nothing about the Commie's alignment, and it seems you're only seeing half of the WIFOM. I will be quite surprised indeed if there's no scum on the Commie's train regardless of his own alignment.
Further reading into !Cake keeps coming up worse. I don't like how the post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99685.html#msg99685) before the hypocritical vote - the post that makes it hypocritical in the first place - is later retconned to mean that the even earlier vote for Hijack was supposedly serious. This plays into the bigger 'ass-covering by any means' charge of the day as a whole, which has already bowled over to today - don't you know it's polite to let us smell?
Don't buy the case on the New Hotness. Day one votes look fine and are all, joke vote aside, on people I find to be at least the scummy side of neutral. The only thing I'd hold against him at all would be the random rash thoughts that need to be immediately retracted. Particularly don't like the charge of 'lining up the lynches', when o9k and the Commie were the top two on at least several people's lists (no I haven't checked to see how many) so that could apply to anyone, and the New Hotness wasn't even one of those by the end of the day. Setting up Commie's lynch today how?
re: Hijack's case on 2girls1cup: 2g1c is one of the remaining players that I really haven't paid much attention to so far. The trouble I'm having is that several of the less active memes merge together in the same sort of scummy side of neutral to me, so I'm having trouble picking them apart, as much as yes, that's a good place for scum to hide in.
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As they often say, hindsight is 20/20...reading over lolcat's past posts has revealed what is basically textbook active lurking. Opinions are scarce, there is plenty of hating on the Great Soviet Motherland without really any opinion anyone else, save some minor cheerleading for O9K, and in general there really isn't anything particularly useful in any of lolcat's posts for today, as even the Russia stuff is largely WIFOM.
As for the rest:
I'm still not sure what to make of our good friends The Soviets. On the one hand, they did a lot of good by advancing our technology and getting into space! On the other hand their D1 posting was rather awful: I don't blame them for their initial No Lynch stance simply because it was so bad and daft that literally no faction stood to gain from it, the fairly rapid turnaround onto O9K after claiming it was a "test" is weird though (what "test"? If you are referring to being properly annoyed at the No Lynch strat, then how could anyone fail that? That strat is terrible, as everyone knows by now), and his post today...is LAL. While I'm not a fan of XBOX or Astley, and Astley deserves at least some hate for his last post yesterday where he acquiesces to town's request to move his vote, however as he is moving it onto someone who he claimed earlier that he thought was scummy, this is not that terrible. In general though, D2 is not the day for LAL either, really.
That being said: I agree with them somewhat on Cake, however I am disappointed that they don't elaborate on their Cake case, lolcat's vote for them makes them a bit less likely to be scum (why would scum be bussing one of their own at this time when there's a townie wagon right alongside?), and so much of their play is just so nonsensical that I'm unconvinced that they're the lynch for today. Somewhat scummy, yes. Likely to be scum? At the moment, I don't think so.
Cake is bad on D1 for the same reason as lolcat is: pretty much active lurking. He slams O9K for, admittedly, decent reasoning, but there's a lack of opinions on other people, and his post today isn't particularly endearing, nor does his case on Shiki make all that much sense imho - voteswitching on D1 is not terrible if it comes with good reasoning (which in this case it did), and it's certainly not indicating of scumminess on its own, and outside of the switching Shiki hasn't done anything else terribly objectionable on D1, so yeah.
Cake, Shiki and Russia need to elaborate on cases, whereas others such as Astley, Bel-Air and XBox all need to post. I'm exhausted right now and need to re-read D1 properly, will post a proper post in about 4 hours.
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(http://imgur.com/gWVbz.jpg) (http://imgur.com/gWVbz.jpg) "Hmph. A lot to say and little time, so I'll attempt to keep this brief. First, we were roleblocked last night. Not sure why us, but it's what happened.
"Moving on. Rick Astley, and by extension anyone who in the future might be inclined to do as such; please announce an intent to hammer -before- hammering, alright? Seeing that darling little hammer post just as I was getting here was about the equivalent of getting rickrolled by goatse.
"In point of fact... a post with horrible/deceptive syntax voting for Russia, a post to us defending his own post after we voted him and explaining what the syntax was supposed to mean, the switch off much later which placed a self-claimed 'worthless' vote, and then the sudden hammervote. That is the entirety of the content Astley has provided. While the vote for Russia I'm willing to set aside, the rest of it seems pretty much pathetic."
##VOTE: Rick Astley
"And since people seem to think my early vote on the rickroll was unreasonable, a brief syntax explanation, provided by Hazel:
Scum's gotta keep those joke votes hot
[Which nine thousand sure has not] <---- Primary actor
Unlike (Shiki and the Comrad) <--- Secondary actor, used -as a comparison-
He hasn't even said a thing
Just stay neutral and sing. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNmTO9t8Boo)
Which I'm thinkin' is a sign that he's ba~ad. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0&feature=related) <--- Applies, due to syntax, to -the primary actor-. Thus it reads as if Nine Thousand was accused of being bad, but the vote was for Soviet Russia, thus my vote on Astley at the time; he read as if he was contradicting himself.
"Anyways. Talking of other possibly questionable personages... Like others have said, hueg like breadbox fails to impress; one post of little relevance and then back into the aetherous flub isn't good. [STAR FOX, REPORT]
"AYB actually looks decent to me; there's some reporting like what Shanapersun said, but... he breaks down his arguments against O9K (third page) well enough that I'm not concerned about the reporting parts. [REPORT]
"Soviet Russia still sits poorly with me as well, and would be my vote recipient if Astley's quickhammer didn't ring as horribly anti-town. The case was pretty much made yesterday; horrible lack of content for most of it, somewhat off-kilter case on Milhouse who reads fine to me (I'd point out the flaws in the Milhouse case but that was done fine by Touhoujack/Shiki). And to answer a comment he made, blazing red sirens were a joke on the "glorious red color", yep. I don't particularly get the snapvote argument, either - I voted you because you persisted in voting No Lynch at the time I wrote that. The post today doesn't help - sure, he votes my own target, but mainly because... he can't remember him. I don't know, but... one would think going back to see what the person you're voting for said would be a good idea, eh, Communist Reference?"
"Lying Cake... augh. Okay, next post, will be up in a hour or two. He's got a fair bit more posting than the rest of these guys, and I've spent long enough trying to pace through this stuff that I need to stand up.
"Ninja by Ad Dog and AYB; I'm well aware that I have relatively low content. Blame that partially on my own deficiency, sure, but I have a job at a adult bookstore to go to, and Hazel does still write her columns. We can't be around consistently or constantly. We do, however, try our damned best to be here when we can. AYB... not much to say. Some nitpicky stuff (I disagree that Astley is "just a lurker", really) but."
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(http://imgur.com/r5A2k.jpg) (http://imgur.com/r5A2k.jpg)"Lying Cake: Breakdown, 2g1c style.
"After jokevote phase: votes O9K for unvoting/not revoting. Gives justification for not voting on Zerg Rush, which I... No, in the end I think I agree with the issues here; even presuming !cake voted Zerg Rush and that made other people shy away from the train, we would still get info based on who textually avoided the train. In other words, !cake's excuse that it would make people shy away seems bollocks and does indeed read more as an avoidance of the case while trying to put pressure on Zerg Rush.
"Page 3: prods lurkers, continues to justify 9000 vote while semi-cheerleading the Yodawg suspicions (calling them strong... when the entirety of the case on Yodawg at the time was that he wasn't saying anything. Uh, 'kay, strong's not the word I would use there).
"Page 4: ... Okay. His post here...
Besides, people can still strongly express opinions without actually having a vote down. They can also make alternate cases and put the votes to use there!
And if all the votes are already on one target people are more likely to tunnel and less likely to turn away. Last game was a huge fluke in that the Prinny wagon gained enough speed to stop Middleman.
[...]
"...contradicts the thrust of his earlier post in Page 2:
lol, wimp. Zerg rushes are srs bsns, as are mafia. If Apeture Science Vessel Cake Liar have case u push case, u don't just go 'lolz look he losing and bad so I not vote cause we'll accidentally day one lynch.'
Placing you too close to lynch would give test subjects an excuse to refrain from voting your case. There are several subjects who have still not commented, and keeping you distant from the Aperture Science Fifteen-Hundred-Megawatt Super-Comfortable Electric Chair means people cannot make their first post something along the lines of 'Zerg is bad, but he's at L-whatever so I'm not voting'. ...
"Emphasis mine in both cases. At first he's afraid that people will not vote Zerg Rush because he's so high up, but then switches to being afraid that people will tunnel on Zerg Rush. This reads highly as someone attempting to distance himself from a failed train. The rest of the post referenced looks acceptable, however. Page 5, a post commenting on liking O9k less, little commentary elsewhere. Page 6, same.
"And today, a post against Shana. Of the bullet points provided, I disagree that Shana cheerleaded on Soviet: she seems instead to have just sputtered at him regarding the push of no-lynch, and later admits the vote on Cake for the fakejester mention was gut and not as logical as she thought. Somewhat weird flop, but whatever, it's not as bad as the !cake seems to push it to be, unless I'm terribly missing something.
"Vote stands, but will switch to vote !cake if Astley does not gain steam. I very much dislike Astley's minimalness and cutoff of discussion, and would rather see him out, but agree that the case on !cake is more substantial than I had been giving it credit for."
-*^*x*^*-
Wha- Cake, what are you doing, popping in like Sakuya? Gotta say, I don't like your "yay a scum died sad to see a townie lynch" and pre-defense of wagon positioning too much there. Kinda makes me want to blow the voting winds back your way, but I want to hear from the life partners first.
(http://imgur.com/2q2en.jpg) (http://imgur.com/2q2en.jpg) "Wha- I think there's a bit of misunderstandi-"
(http://imgur.com/e0dwH.jpg) (http://imgur.com/e0dwH.jpg) "DAMNIT AYA I AM NOT A LESBIAN!"
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(http://i50.tinypic.com/11hql3t.jpg)
Yeah, this had been draining a bit of my spare time before this game even started. Now, thanks to Advice Dog, I'm back on it.
The quick-hammer for Rick was annoying, but the points you've presented against GlaDOS are much stronger. That said, expecting GlaDOS to actually show up and respond, unlike Rick.
AYB, I know it's not a major point of yours, but worth commenting on: you wonder why scum would be bussing one of their own? Exactly that. It could be for town credit either way, and it's WIFOM to look into it. Not only that, but at the time of Lolcat's vote, it was early in the day and there was more than enough time for the trains to change.
Still think the Soviet is worst, with GlaDOS a distant second, then lurkers. If anyone has anything in particular they want me to respond to, I'll be around for the next two hours or so. In the meantime, I'm gonna go back to beating this. (http://i49.tinypic.com/2z8op5d.jpg)
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(http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/4936/ranprofile.jpg)
My apologies to Hazel for the innaccurate remarks of that tengu rag regarding your sexuality. Aya has often done such things in the past to many Gensokyo residents in the interest of generating stories.
Your most recent posts are a substantial step up from your Day 1 conduct, though I think your vote should be on the faux dessert instead of the singer given the arguments you have presented. Your claim of being roleblocked also stays my accusational hand for the time being. ##Unvote
Speaking of your argument against the faux dessert, I must admit your second faux dessert hypocrisy discovery (the first being presented by Scarlet's librarian back on Page 2) has me strongly leaning back toward it, as does the insect horde's revisionist history accusation (perhaps the dessert becomes real in the light of the full moon? This would be consistent with Gensokyo's own population), as does the tengu's second set of comments about pre-emptive defense and pro-town celebrations. There is far too much inconsistency and pro-town acting here for me to let this go. And then, above all else, Chen learning of the non-existence of cake has made her cry. This crime absolutely cannot go unpunished. ##Vote: The Cake Is A Lie
On to other meaningful subjects. As the female pair and the less-than-inspiring messages continue to hold Aka in very low regard, I must cite my mistress's argument against the prospect of him being scum (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99795.html#msg99795) and ask you why you believe him to be so even in this light. The messages, in particular, I frown upon because their vote today seems to be entirely founded on the fact that Aka once supported No Lynch, and they have not expressed other suspicions beyond the obvious faux dessert case and then the lurkers, which anyone can do. Clarice at least mentions more, though I believe the "lack of content" argument only applies to earlier in the day, which is slightly less offensive considering the nature of Day 1. The content improved as the day went on, at least in my rather keen eyes.
Combo Breaker, the box's joke vote did eventually metamorph into a serious vote. I agree that the box is suspicious, but I cannot agree with your reason for thinking so, as it is rather incorrect.
In terms of people I feel are/were lurking in the shadows, my full list would include Combo Breaker, All Your Base, Rick Astley and Bel Air, the box more lurking in a bottomless pit. Combo Breaker I find myself raising an eyebrow at due to the nature of box vote. All Your Base's content has admittedly been good when it's there, so I find myself concerned the least with him. I dislike the lack of vote in his opening post but he has made a follow-up promise so I will wait patiently for that. Rick Astley has been covered by Clarice; I find myself agreeing with her, though not to the extent that I feel he is the most vote-worthy target at this juncture. Bel Air...feelings are nebulous, as if they have been sukima'd away entirely. I do not like this and would especially like to see what he has with which to open the day.
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Gah, to hell with it. I haven't been able to give this game the time it deserves, and as a result I'm falling behind. I admit I was being an idiot when I didn't vote for Zerg. I wasn't paying a whole ton of attention to all the cases rising up and I haven't taken the time to read through the topic.
On the other hand, I shot lolcats last night. So...yeah.
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(http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/8623/reactranimage.jpg)
That is quite the claim there. ##Unvote, ##Vote: HUGE LIKE XBOX for now (read Aya's story for reasoning), though very curious to see if someone will counterclaim this, as that claim is about the only thing that would save you from the sheer amount of inconsistency you've produced.
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(http://imgur.com/g3KRo.jpg) (http://imgur.com/g3KRo.jpg)"Eh, don't sweat it, Tenko. Jamie tends to make that joke a lot. I just, uh... overreact.
"As for the scumminess of Red Red Red, it is not only the pushing of no lynch that has pushed my buttons, though that certainly earned him my vote when he first did it day 1. As for Violet Yakumo's arguments on its lack of scumminess... well. I can't quite say what scum Red has to gain from it. I can't see what -town- Red could have gained from it, either, and as such I think I dismissed your argument there earlier as somewhat of a WIFOM case. Regardless, the no lynch vote and maintainment didn't really promote discussion, as he claimed. O9K commentary? Rehash. Milhouse push? I don't really see where he's coming from, though it might be because I am a capitalist wage slave (though if Red Red Red converts that to mean scum I've got a coffee to pour over his head; I'm as much a victim of capitalism as he!). Astley vote today? As much as I enjoy the company on him, placing the vote and citing only the lurker aspect feels off. In other words, I'm not feeling the content boost you're feeling, and the maintainment of no lynch still rubs me the wrong way since it really is just a bad thing to push for in general.
"And... Okay, !cake. Unless more problems come up that's claim enough. Still keeping eyes on you, but... yeah, okay, that claim is good enough for now.
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(http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/7885/655701.jpg)
##UNVOTE: THE CAKE IS A LIE
Sure, good enough for an immediate vote removal. Just about sure that's enough to clear if there isn't a counter-claim, unless scum somehow know how the cats died. It can obviously also be explained as an SK, but so long as !he's effectively anti-scum and has to play that way I don't think it makes a difference in at least the short run.
I'm not entirely sure how !you reached the conclusion to go for the cats, as there are no hints in !your day one talk to support it.
##VOTE: COMBO BREAKER
I should be somewhere, and right now it's somewhere between C-C-C-C, CATS and an extreme lurker (or Commie, but I'm still really stuck there). Of them, I feel that my vote is still not best served on a lurker when we're still waiting on four people to post today, including the main culprits there and it's close to a dartboard decision there (okay, the big black box is worst of them regardless), and I'm at least willing to wait on this 'proper post' that CATS has in the wings. C-C-C-C, however, has the baggage from yesterday chaining into being surprisingly light on the Commie today despite being doggedly on his tail yesterday and at least one large ball of gas here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100158.html#msg100158) in discussing !Cake on New Hotness. Kept a joke vote down for longer than necessary (by which I mean through another, serious, post). Easily distracted by the shiniest of immediate stuff as well. Closest to the model of 'oddly supportive of o9k' that I was looking for.
The big black box being bad for super low content lurking is sure, a case I can see following, but his vote on o9k coming during the joke phase is irrelevant. Disappear after joke vote phase, return and find the vote to be made is already in the right place. Sure, the disappearance and low content on reappearing is bad, but the happenstance of the vote is not, and not something to base a case around.
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I'm not entirely sure how !you reached the conclusion to go for the cats, as there are no hints in !your day one talk to support it.
During the night, I basically tried to quantify everyone in a sentence or so. When I realised that I couldn't say anything at all about lolcats - not even 'hueg lurker liek xbox' - I decided something was up. Given that I had basically messed up D1 horribly I figured it was worth taking the shot because otherwise I was likely to die today. If I hit Town...well, it was worth a try.
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Sorry about the extended nap, everyone. But don't worry. I'm never gonna le (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MboeozTBgD8)t you down.
(http://imgur.com/gWVbz.jpg) (http://imgur.com/gWVbz.jpg)
"Moving on. Rick Astley, and by extension anyone who in the future might be inclined to do as such; please announce an intent to hammer -before- hammering, alright? Seeing that darling little hammer post just as I was getting here was about the equivalent of getting rickrolled by goatse.
"In point of fact... a post with horrible/deceptive syntax voting for Russia, a post to us defending his own post after we voted him and explaining what the syntax was supposed to mean, the switch off much later which placed a self-claimed 'worthless' vote, and then the sudden hammervote. That is the entirety of the content Astley has provided. While the vote for Russia I'm willing to set aside, the rest of it seems pretty much pathetic."
##VOTE: Rick Astley
"And since people seem to think my early vote on the rickroll was unreasonable, a brief syntax explanation, provided by Hazel:
Scum's gotta keep those joke votes hot
[Which nine thousand sure has not] <---- Primary actor
Unlike (Shiki and the Comrad) <--- Secondary actor, used -as a comparison-
He hasn't even said a thing
Just stay neutral and sing. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNmTO9t8Boo)
Which I'm thinkin' is a sign that he's ba~ad. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0&feature=related) <--- Applies, due to syntax, to -the primary actor-. Thus it reads as if Nine Thousand was accused of being bad, but the vote was for Soviet Russia, thus my vote on Astley at the time; he read as if he was contradicting himself.
Skimming through Day 2, when I noticed this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ3bWq-uLOo) Just gonna take a few minutes to pick it apart before I get back to the rest of the posts.
First off, I did (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99973.html#msg99973) declare an intention to hammer. My vote on the !meme was, as I said, to state that I don't like him. However, after that, I got pestered a whole bunch to make a "meaningful vote" so I did. With about an hour left in the day, anyway. Got a problem with it? Don't take it up with me.
Next, about my content. That self-proclaimed 'worthless' vote also had a reason behind it, and the hammervote was as sudden as the people yelling at me for not doing it earlier.
Finally, about my little routine. I said that scum's gotta keep those joke votes hot, and o9k had not. (http://www.xkcd.com/) That seems pretty clear, doesn't it? Alright, gonna get back to reading.
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##VOTE: COMBO BREAKER
I should be somewhere, and right now it's somewhere between C-C-C-C, CATS and an extreme lurker (or Commie, but I'm still really stuck there). Of them, I feel that my vote is still not best served on a lurker when we're still waiting on four people to post today, including the main culprits there and it's close to a dartboard decision there (okay, the big black box is worst of them regardless), and I'm at least willing to wait on this 'proper post' that CATS has in the wings. C-C-C-C, however, has the baggage from yesterday chaining into being surprisingly light on the Commie today despite being doggedly on his tail yesterday and at least one large ball of gas here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100158.html#msg100158) in discussing !Cake on New Hotness. Kept a joke vote down for longer than necessary (by which I mean through another, serious, post). Easily distracted by the shiniest of immediate stuff as well. Closest to the model of 'oddly supportive of o9k' that I was looking for.
The big black box being bad for super low content lurking is sure, a case I can see following, but his vote on o9k coming during the joke phase is irrelevant. Disappear after joke vote phase, return and find the vote to be made is already in the right place. Sure, the disappearance and low content on reappearing is bad, but the happenstance of the vote is not, and not something to base a case around.
I never like the line of thinking that not voting immediately on someone you were suspicious of yesterday is automatically scummy, especially since I questioned Soviet on most of his arguments today. I believed that the thing about X-Box was noticable enough to bring up and worth a vote, even if I change it down the line. How else do you want me to show I am serious about the case? If I was less suspicious of Soviet I would have explicitly said so, but I did not and I am not. Also, if I was distracted by the shiniest immediate stuff, why would I even put the case and vote on X-Box to begin with? No one had even mentioned it (and it is worth mentioning). Especially since you yourself posted "Make Joke Serious, Get Lynched (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99771.html#msg99771)". Yes, there is a time gap, but he supremely skated through the day and it just looks like classic scum lurker material.
As for the joke vote thing you claim is so bad, I didn't really have anyone serious to vote on at the time when I put up the post poking at O9K's reasoning, so I just forgot to unvote. Simple as that. I don't see how you're attributing a one post gap to immense scumminess.
I'm not pulling off until X-Box posts something substantive. Soviet is still high, high on the list (BTW, still waiting on the answers to those questions, Soviet... again... like I waited yesterday without any sort of answers to the questions I asked you).
Cake... the cake is not a liar, hopefully. Nothing I can say that hasn't already been said though.
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Skimming through Day 2, when I noticed this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ3bWq-uLOo) Just gonna take a few minutes to pick it apart before I get back to the rest of the posts.
First off, I did (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99973.html#msg99973) declare an intention to hammer. My vote on the !meme was, as I said, to state that I don't like him. However, after that, I got pestered a whole bunch to make a "meaningful vote" so I did. With about an hour left in the day, anyway. Got a problem with it? Don't take it up with me.
Next, about my content. That self-proclaimed 'worthless' vote also had a reason behind it, and the hammervote was as sudden as the people yelling at me for not doing it earlier.
Finally, about my little routine. I said that scum's gotta keep those joke votes hot, and o9k had not. (http://www.xkcd.com/) That seems pretty clear, doesn't it? Alright, gonna get back to reading.
(http://imgur.com/gWVbz.jpg) (http://imgur.com/gWVbz.jpg) "Response appreciated, and you're right - somehow I boneheadedly missed that you did, in fact, say you were willing to hammer. That... I'm still somewhat annoyed about the whole matter since responding to the pressure to move your vote doesn't sit well with me, but that diffuses the annoyance to those that commented on it (I believe I read the page 7 hammer, skimmed back, saw people pestering you about it, and concluded that you had placed the vote). Use of word 'worthless' to describe your own vote probably just shut down my own skimming at that point, especially since you had ended the day.
"Frankly, if you didn't want pressure to move your vote, why call your own vote worthless, though? The situation still sits poorly with me - you effectively provoked your own hammer reaction.
"I already explained the syntax issue, and I admitted day 1 that there was an alternate way, which you seem to have intended, for that post. It still merited bringing up in the breakdown.
"Finally, the Milhouse vote? Just says you're voting him based on gut. Nothing else. Seems just a way to try and pull attention to him - perhaps not that day, but later. Light mudsmearing, if you will - I can't see a point behind those events.
"I'm going to be gone for a fair chunk of time at this point, work concerns loom. Vote is standing for now, want to hear more from a lot of people, and so on and so forth until the dawn of time part two."
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Alright, not feeling well, so I'm gonna try and make this brief so I can get back to sl (http://tracyjb.deviantart.com/art/Sheep-28677218)eep.
HLX: Insultingly absent. In his post, he also says that talking about Jesters is fear-mongering, but then goes on to talk about it himself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MboeozTBgD8) Really needs to get on the ball, and actually post some real content soon, otherwise will remain incredibly suspicious.
!meme: Gonna put out a call to post, since you seem to be absent in Day 2 so far. As for the rest, well, not really liking your posts Day 1. Big thing that sticks out to me is that last Day 1 post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99958.html#msg99958), during your largest WoT. Looks like your forcing a lot of what you said there- namely the part where you mention me, !cake, the Dogs. It kinda looks like you're contradicting yourself within that Wall. Mind breaking it down and explaining it?
Motherland: Consistently bad pl (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMSWUHChfek&feature=related)ay. As others have said, a lot of it is incredibly WIFOM-y, especially that No Lynch bit, but frankly that last post of yours really strikes me as off. You claimed suspicions of 2 people, with what seemed like actual cases on at least one of them, but instead you go for LAL, wherein your only case is "lolcat was lurker, is ok." In Soviet Russia, does Scum lynch Town?
Cup-Sisters: About your case on the !cake, I'd just like to point out that you're mud-slinging there. It's pretty clear that he--she--it didn't want the lurkers to come out and have an excuse to avoid the Zerg Train. As we've already seen, when someone is near a hammer, the only discussion it tends to create is 1) whether or not to hammer, 2) defences of the accused, and 3) lightly touching base with any of the points of the case just to show that you're aware they're there. I'm reading that, and when I read beyond what you bolded, I'm noticing that !cake wasn't contradicting itself. There's more, but my head isn't with me now, sorry. If I don't address this again in my next post, feel free to call me down on it.
As things stand, I'm looking between Motherland and Cup-Sisters. Gonna ##Vote: 2Girls1Cup just to take the path less travelled, however. And now, sleep~
Cup-Sisters Ninja: No more "syntax" claims, mmk? Click the link in the lyrics. It was provided for good reason. (I told you I'd never let you down. Never run around and desert you, either)
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KEKEKEKEKEKEKE!
Since I failed to bold in my last post, let's make sure what I did was clear and recorded.
##Vote: The Cake is a Lie
KEKEKEKEKEKEKE!
Now then, with the defensive claim in mind.
##Unvote: The Cake is a Lie
Unless there's a counterclaim or such, that's enough to get me off your case for the moment. My previous complaints still stand however. Its been documented that 3rd parties are possible in this set-up, so, shooting lolcats does not particularly make you a townie, even if there is no counterclaim. It does mean you can be potentially useful though, so you get to live for the moment. Hurrah!
KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE!
So, for the moment, I'll fall back to my secondary case. ##Vote: Russia
Looking at your post from this day, I'm not particularly fond of what you do. You throw out about five different suspicions, then go and attack two different lurker angles. Are you saying the lurkers are worse then your suspicions? Do you have any particular ranking to your suspicions? Do you think the cases on your five suspicions are weaker then the cases on two day one lurkers? I'm very curious as to why you put your vote down where you did, instead of anywhere else, and why you chose to only give short, one point arguments instead of actually looking deeper into things.
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Votecount Unicorn Attack!
Votecount
Soviet Russia: (2) - Demotivator, Zerg Rush
Cake: (0) - Touhou Hijacker, Advice Dog, Zerg Rush
XBOX: (2) - Touhou Hijacker, COMBO BREAKER, Touhou Hijacker
2girls1cup: (1) - Touhou Hijacker Rick Astley
SHANA IS HOT: (1) - Cake
Rick Astley: (2) - Soviet Russia, 2girls1cup
Demotivator: (1) - SHANA IS HOT
COMBO BREAKER: (1) - Advice Dog
With 14 memes alive, it takes 8 votes to axe someone in the face.
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To Combo Breaker:
This is so gonna be an ugly day 2 to look forward to. Right now, as far as I see, we've got two plausible lynch cases: Over 9 inches and Soviet Communism.
That said, is there any more progress to be had within the debacles set up for this day? I'd want to see a bit more insight on the Crappy Fighting Game Mechanic/Pimp My Ride debacle, but at this point, things feel like they're becoming drawn out and tired. Although I hope at least 9.1 Inches can make something of a convincing "last stand" if it comes down to it.
Herd town like cattle!
Good NK is good. Interesting to see an extra death in N1, but it's worked out, so not complaining.
....
What I'm looking at for now, though, are the roles that've flipped. Or, more specifically, looking at the role of Body Double, I'm wondering if Yo Dawg was the intended kill of the Mafia. 'Course, this is just mild speculation while I look around for other people, and wait for some input from our quieter members from D1.
Pointless role speculate!
Discussed herding specifically yesterday! Is irritating to be asked again to point out things and have to wrangle quotes into post, is not obvious? Not complaining too much but please do not try to paint loyal soviet in bad light for "not answering" when asker of questions too lazy to go back and find own answers!
In Soviet Russia, man who ask trapping questions scummier than man who answer! (this is joke. mostly.)
Cake concerns explained, Cake good in soviet book. Still wish for Astley to make give thoughts. XBox not pressed on because XBox flat out not post, ees in modkill danger. Less scummy than posting a leetle but saying nothing, нет?'
Ninja by Astley, just the man I am looking for, oh ho ho!
... Astley seem to not have seen Cake claim, or not understand? Argue against lurker lynch, argue on cup sisters case on cake, is bizzare. Agree with me that Meelhouse is scummy, but say I am scummy for not pursuing case... then Astley also do same thing on case? What.
Vote stay on Astley for sure now!
Ninja more by Zerg Rush!
Да, I am saying lurkers worse than suspicions, at very least in terms of deserving early day pressure. Pressure which has now paid off on Astley! Astley now definitely top of pack, Cake suspicions now gone, rest not in particular order really. What "deeper looking" you want, eh? This attitude, that people scummy for suspicions not being ranked, for not "following up on cases", for putting votes on lurkers? Thees is how lurking scum win! Ees very good to vote lurkers. Suggest people do it more, especially Astley now.
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I asked because I still didn't see any of what you were talking about in their posts. Both times you brought up the herding you didn't really say exactly what about it was herding. Whats wrong with asking someone to back up their argument? There's nothing to be gained by letting details slide.
I still don't see how that qualifies as herding. It's strongly worded argumentation. I don't sense any sort of maliciousness behind it.
And I'll admit my mistake on Demotivational. I only checked his Day 1 stuff for it since you mentioned "early role speculation". I assumed it meant Day 1.
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I still don't see how that qualifies as herding. It's strongly worded argumentation. I don't sense any sort of maliciousness behind it.
Check timing of first quoted post, Да? That early in day, to use "strongly worded argumentation" to narrow to two lynches and already complain about tough day 2, is very alarming indeed! But for now, what do you think of Astley here, comrade?
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In Soviet Russia, mafia game emptyposts in you!
Six hours and nothing, when brave Soviets have free time at last? Reeeally? :( Well, bed for loyal workers now. Please consider lynching Astley, also look back at Meelhouse and company!
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(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/8484/swriku.jpg)
In the interest of activity, I have been summoned to speak my piece, in hopes of cutting through the current deafening silence (at least a little bit). However, I cannot stay for long, as there are still plenty of matters to attend to back at the Dragon Palace as well as Bhava-Agra. Do not expect more from me after this for a while.
Read: Posting this and then will be gone for a long while for various real-life reasons. Sorry to add to the number of people not posting. Also, I'm very quickly running out of intellectual-style characters, and I'm starting to worry about it.
With the Box's continued lack of presence, I cannot, in good faith, remove my vote from him until he posts something awe-inspiring or a message descends from the heavens that he will be struck by lightning. The two players I look at after him, at this point, are Combo Breaker and Mr. Astley.
Combo Breaker is for reasons various Gensokyo residents have lightly touched on throughout their visiting time. I will bring forth the writings of Ms. Kaenbyou (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99866.html#msg99866), Ms. Scarlet (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99876.html#msg99876) and Ms. Yakumo (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100197.html#msg100197), who all talk about his odd penchant for innaccurate accusations, first toward Mr. Zibit and then toward...the Box, aggravatingly enough. He also states that he was the first to mention the Box case, which is patently untrue, as Ms. Shameimaru had already printed an article about it. If he refers not to the case in general but his specific point about the joke vote maintainence, well, that has already been addressed, and is hardly something to champion.
Mr. Astley is for general lack of content on Day 1 and several instances of unexplained/underexplained Day 2 content. His suspicions of Milhouse have morphed into something else that he only states and does not explain. I read the post in question and did not particularly see these instances of "forcing" he mentions, nor do I see any readily obvious contradictions, and with no explanation for these accusations I cannot tell at all what he is thinking. Similar lack of explanations surround his response to Hazel's case discussing Cake's contradiction, and his brief discussion of Mafia theory does not help me understand why he holds the position he does. These cases do not energize me at all.
Then there is his thrust toward the Russian, which presents an opinion I see the insect hordes also hold regarding the Russian's opening vote. I read that vote as not simply voting for a lurker, but voting for a lurker with no memorable content. We already have one scum flip that fits that exact description, so I see no wrong in pursuing that angle. Simple "you're voting for a lurker!" charges are lackluster at this stage anyway, as it is very possible to lurk and still look townie. The most obvious way is to produce good and memorable content when you actually do post. Shana does this for me, for example.
There may also be a bolt of OMGUS here, as I feel like he is trying to slight Ms. Whiterock and overblow the circumstances of his hammer. It is true that she did ask him to move his vote somewhere meaningful, and it is also true that he declared an intention to hammer. However, I cannot understand why, when pressed about this, he did not simply say "I had declared intent to hammer" and left it at that. Using strong language such as "I got pestered a whole bunch", "Don't take it up with me" and "people yelling at me for not doing it earlier" is unnecessary and just looks like trying to shift the blame our way. But, again, I may be biased in that regard.
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Soviet: I swear you are twisting Astley's position around to make him seem hypocritical on top of his lurking. I don't think the parallel you draw between your situations is on the spot; I mean, he doesn't really like look his case on Milhouse was a heavy dose of suspicion. I am also trapped between a couple proposed statements;
1) Lynching lurkers is good! (said by you and many others, no doubt)
2) "Because one scum lurks, the others clearly also do" (said by you, does not seem at all an axiom to lynch by in mafia, the pointing out of which is (somewhat ironically) the only worthwhile thing out of demotivational today in my view, feels like a wrongheaded way of pointing everyone towards a typically-maligned subset of the game... which consists of like a third of this one.)
In other words, 1 may be true, but 2 is not and feels like a way of pushing people towards 1 under bizzare rationale. I believe I must retract my earlier position on demotivational, now that I agree with him; today soviet's play seems very much a 'prey on the weak!' deal. (I suppose I have to disregard lolcats vote here, although I do generally believe that scum on a train like that means they're on town.)
##UNVOTE OF DENIED ENCOURAGEMENT, ##THE SOULS OF A THOUSAND DEAD MOSQUITOES: SovietRussia
2g1c: Why are you voting Astley? Furthermore, I believed he projected his hammer well enough. So.
Combo breaker makes me a bit leery for cheerleading Cake's case on me without really adding anything, but nothing solid on him.
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(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5517/658950.jpg)
(to avoid incoming mod lightning)
Over 50 hours of day time since the big black box has last posted (and, let's face it, first posted).
Boxed Air is closing in on the 48 hour mark as I post this.
Even Milhouse is now over 40 hours.
What's the call on this, mod? I feel like a vote on the big black box or Boxed Air ought to be worthless at this point as I'd rather at least the former was obliterated for having not actually taken part in the game, and I don't feel much less for the latter. None have been active since day two started, so I'm not going to be paranoid about stupid possibilities like a silencer.
C-C-C-C: Or may I call you -2C? Anyway, sure it's more often than not the case that you'll want to change votes between one day ending and the next one beginning, but what I actually disliked was the sudden toning down in your stance on the Commie despite no relevant new information. Hmm, I was about to recant and say that you weren't actually so strongly on the Commie during day one as I thought you were, but what's this?
If I was less suspicious of Soviet I would have explicitly said so, but I did not and I am not.
You thought the Commie was worse than the big black box but you voted the latter? To show you were serious or something? I'd like to label this excuse as 'When Retconning Goes Wrong'. I can't shove the following down your throat as much as I'd like given that Hijack is doing similar, but what your vote for the big black box distinctly smells like to me is a delaying tactic for a later jump. What makes it worse than the Hijack is that they're more committed to the position (and have early townie points to cash in), whereas you have explicitly set the easy stage for a later leap:
I'm not pulling off until X-Box posts something substantive.
Oh gee, that's some pressure there. It smells yet worse after the similar, but less bad, vote on Dawg yesterday.
Splitting my post here as I don't want the -2C case to get lost in the middle.
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(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/1808/659143.jpg)
CATS has yet to deliver the promised 'proper post'. Uh okay. Reeeeaaallly doesn't sit well with me when he's the only poster actually present in day two without a vote down, on top of the mounting negatives from before.
With no forthcoming counter-claim (not that one seemed likely), !Cake seems clear for now unless Milhouse counter-claims, as I'd lynch either boxes ahead of !Cake should they claim. There are other tricky possibilities, but if true they're already in hand and I don't want to contemplate or direct night actions, so won't mention them.
On a similar note, 2g1c's claim is enough to remove her from my list of potential lynch candidates for today. I've been keeping out of the semantics between them and Duck Roll v2 (for what it's worth, I read it at the time with the intent Rick has claimed), but dislike the latter for casually ignoring this claim, and likewise dislike the cases being built outside of defence. Don't buy into either side of the finger-pointing between him and the Commie. In turn, growing oddly more comfortable with the Commie as time goes on. Still can't fathom the day one play, but actually don't have much issue with the day two content thus far outside of potentially how far he intends to push the solidly anti-lurker stance. Muddied a little by the positions from the New Hotness and CATS that the cats' vote for him makes him less likely to be scum, which it doesn't - the muddying mostly coming from disliking CATS otherwise already.
Expecting an ultimatum on the lurkers, I'm looking at -2C > CATS > Duck Roll v2 as things stand.
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As 2G1C said, the main case against the Soviet early-day wasn't for the No Lynch, it was for claiming that was all an elaborate ploy, for the most part. It's just got worse since then to me.
Because I want an excuse to use this, and Soviet now is the closest I'll come: DEMOTIVATOR! (http://cdn1.knowyourmeme.com/i/4596/original/objection.jpg)
For this post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100228.html#msg100228), what is it in Astley's posts that imply he hasn't seen the Cake claim? I don't see a single comment implying that Cake is scum or looking at Loldeath.
I'm also kind of concerned with how much that post and this one (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100254.html#msg100254) are attempting to push town completely towards an Astley lynch, especially considering you've attacked Milhouse for mostly the same thing (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100231.html#msg100231).
Agreeing with Advice Dog on at least one part of -2C case: "post something substantial" is never a good reason to move a vote. Vote scummy behaviour, not just a lack of town. -2C looks bad, but I definitely think the Soviet looks much worse, and I'm not seeing the problem with Astley's content today.
How long have we got left in this day? Last votecount has no time mentioned.
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(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/8053/659221.jpg)
We're on 72 hour days, so I make it 34 1/2 hours to deadline.
I had assumed Commie's statement regarding Duck Roll v2 not seeing !Cake's claim was to do with Rick's case against 2g1c, which at that point most recently referred to 2g1c's case on !Cake, since retracted. Not that you can't still make the case that Rick then made anyway, but I don't think it's odd of Commie to think it odd of Rick not to react to it at all. Of course the rather more relevant related issue is that Rick made this argument with no reference to 2g1c's claim, but that's not what you're after here.
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Hm, I'll admit, I completely forgot about 2G1C's claim. Guess there is a problem with Astley's posts today, then, albeit quite a minor one.
Still, the fact that we have over 24 hours left just serves to emphasise one argument on Soviet Russia (http://img2.visualizeus.com/thumbs/09/01/02/atheism,cartoon,comic,hypocrisy-6e69f6aa62face97de8afd5f418085ce_h.jpg). Accusing Milhouse of herding town early in D1 then doing the exact same with Astley in D2 is hypocrisy at best and downright scummy at worst. After 1.5 days of bad/scummy play from Russia, it'll take something major to change my vote from here.
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I have recently been informed that XBOX has lost internet access and Milhouse is AFK for the weekend. I've already gotten a volunteer to replace XBOX, so I'll tag the replacement in now.
Milhouse wil be modkilled for inactivity if he hasn't posted by day end.
Also, about 34 hours remain in Day 2.
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And Bel Air?
Also, for flavour:
(http://i49.tinypic.com/aubaz8.jpg) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSMeUPFjQHc)
(Picture is link, click plskthx.)
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Okay, there are seriously too many people who haven't posted anything today. Milhouse? Xbox? Bel-Air? Where are you people?
Soviet Russia still seems just too ridiculous and out there. What I don't like is his misrep of my post:
Cake post give uncomfortable Trotsky vibes. Death of comrade never inevitable, and ees very capitalist to speak in such terms.
Why is this? Understandable if I bawwwwed about Dawg's death, but saying that I feel the o9k lynch was still a good idea?
Also his 'Cake eez bad but case on Hotness eez good' point. Still, I can't validate his D1 play in terms of scum.
Actually...why did 2g1c feel the need to declare being roleblocked? That's a question I'd like to ask. It's effectively a softclaim with no evidence behind it and it makes little sense as Town - it's basically screaming 'Hey, scum, you guessed right when you assumed I was a role! Now go ahead and hit me!' I'm wondering if there's too much of a free pass going around.
Her analysis of Astley's song is also horrible misrep. He outright says 'scum want to keep jokevotes hot. 9000 is not keeping jokevotes hot.' Why does that come out as accusing 9000?
##Unvote: Shana/Shiki, ##Vote: 2g1c
Cake doesn't come in that flavour ;_;
Not buying the case against Astley. Declared intent to hammer, he's been misrepped for voting Soviet...not convinced he's worth lynching today.
Xbox...iiiiiis no longer relevant for his lurking since he's been replaced. :| Same with Milhouse. Bel-Air has no excuse.
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Actually...why did 2g1c feel the need to declare being roleblocked? That's a question I'd like to ask. It's effectively a softclaim with no evidence behind it and it makes little sense as Town - it's basically screaming 'Hey, scum, you guessed right when you assumed I was a role! Now go ahead and hit me!' I'm wondering if there's too much of a free pass going around.
Her analysis of Astley's song is also horrible misrep. He outright says 'scum want to keep jokevotes hot. 9000 is not keeping jokevotes hot.' Why does that come out as accusing 9000?
(http://imgur.com/tTbM4.jpg) (http://imgur.com/tTbM4.jpg) "Already covered the goddamn song, already explained how I read it. Already explained that wasn't the main push for the case, as this was indeed explained. That you missed this makes me wonder if you are actually reading my posts, but since I've been poor on that, pot calls kettle black here. Regardless, -the high profile lurking through day 1 and the hammer vote- were the main pushes, neither of which were elaborated. The hammer vote has been explained. The high-profile lurking still aggravates.
"And as for the roleblock? Uh, what, you want me to not inform town that there is a roleblocker? When I have this information given to me? And in a role madness game, you're accusing someone of softclaiming because... they were roleblocked? In a role madness game? This reads painfully like trying to push me to actually -claim-, and the only reason my vote isn't falling back onto -you- is because of that little claim of your own, which I'm wondering isn't just a scum play to try and pull the damn second NKer out themselves.
"Information is a necessity for town; I had the information that I was roleblocked given to me; I gave this information to town. To call this scummy is incredibly dense and- You know what? Putting my money where my mouth is. This may sound OMGUS, but with the arguments you've made against others and against me, I cannot any longer believe your NK claim, and even if it is true I do not believe you are town."
##UNVOTE: Rick Astley
##VOTE: The Cake Is A Lie
"Shana: I already elaborated multiple times, but the basic breakdown is high-profile lurking, the hammer (which has been explained some, to my appreciation; this is part of why I'm willing to drop my vote on him to move it to someone who has been acting very poorly thus far, !cake's own claim aside) and at this point his content today (defending himself against me in prime, touching on the Russia case/hueg XBOX case, continuing on Milhouse (points for consistency there, at least) and... overall he impresses me poorly, but less so than he did before.
"Astley: No, I'm afraid it quite cleanly is contradiction. He said he wanted to avoid people having an excuse to not vote Zerg Rush in the first example referenced, and then said he was afraid of the case growing too big in the second. Looking at the two the attitude toward the Zerg Rush train does not match up at all. While I pity his claimed concerns about the train being between Zerg Rush and Scummiest on Zerg Rush train, that was nowhere present during that first post, and retrospective claiming there doesn't slide too well with me. Also, I don't click Youtube links. Thanks, though.
"Mostly AFK for a while again, may be able to sneak a few quick responses in as I'm sure people will no doubt have issues with my vote on !cake at this point. But with the suspicious behavior I outlined earlier and the prodding here, the claim does not cut it any further."
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(http://arcueid.ucam.org/hueg.jpg)
Well, my predecessor's presence has been smaller than a Gamecube. Hopefully I can turn this account 360 degrees and start producing something useful.
I'd initially be looking at Millhouse, because he gives me the same feeling as the cake described getting from lolcats - not memorable even as a lurker. But looks like the mod's on that one.
Suspicious of 2g1c. Posts on day 1 felt very empty, then there's a dramatic shift as people start calling them on it; obviously I can't have it both ways, but to shift so effortlessly makes it seem like the day 1 style was a conscious choice. Also, too frequent apologies for low presence. Life happens, and obv. telling us beforehand is less suspicious than just disappearing, but it feels like every other post had a "will post more later". Which is nothing solid, but more defensive than I like.
This morning I would have said that Soviet Russia was more useful alive than dead; suspicious as hell, but not actively harming town, and is at least posting; and while I shouldn't be swayed by this, I appreciate the consistent flavour and so-bad-it's-good Lenin joke. But having thought about it some more, I dislike the muddying the waters in http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100154.html#msg100154 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100154.html#msg100154), which is even more blatant now I look back at it. The refusal to either claim or deny responsibility for the killing meshes badly with the day 1 claim that this game made town more powerful at night. Obviously unprompted roleclaiming would be bad, but this kind of fuzzy hinting can only hurt town. So ##Vote: Soviet Russia, and I want a more concrete statement of what, if any, position you're taking on town role power.
That's a lot of negative, so I should probably give some positive views too. Touhou hijack I find to be consistently posting insightful, well-reasoned stuff which I find myself nodding along to... which makes me suspicious. I can hardly accuse insight and reasoning of being anti-town, but it's putting hijack in a position to direct the discussion, which would be bad. Of course this goes without saying in this game, but we need to be wary of blindly following anyone. Advice dog is similar but to a lesser extent (which makes their endorsement of Touhou hijack... odd, but less odd if they're town than if they're scum); fortunately, their ability to uninterruptedly WoT overnight means we'll already be on guard against letting them control anything.
Lurkers are obviously bad (and I'm kind of in a poor position to complain about them, but through no fault of my own. (I could argue that letting yourself drop out is something town are more likely to do than scum, but that makes dropping out and getting replaced a legitimate tactic for scum who really want their side to win, and I don't want to go there)); as the dog had it, none of them particularly stands out, but it's a good place for scum to hide in. Shiki is looking the towniest of anyone to me right now; I think he has a point, WIFOM or not, lolcats' flip and vote does shift the percentages on soviet russia a bit. (How much, I hear you cry? Well look where my vote is. But it does make him a little less likely to be scum)
Post is approaching HUEG enough, and I don't have a lot of visibility on anyone else (other than the two with claims out, whom I'm temporarily assuming clear). Will reread and look closer, particularly at C-C-C-C/dawg (initial impression: dawg comes off worse for overreaction, but I haven't read closely enough to take a solid position yet). Hopefully this gives enough of an idea of where my opinions are now.
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Correction: one with claim, BWIM !cake. How I managed to forget the roleblock claim was 2g1c's I don't know; apologies. Makes them less of a good lynch candidate for now, I guess; I'm still suspicious (and it's convenient timing. And a softer claim than !cake's), but it makes it better to wait and see.
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(http://imgur.com/tTbM4.jpg) (http://imgur.com/tTbM4.jpg) "'Convenient'? It was made as the first post of the day for me, and before any attention actually fell on me outside of Touhou. How is that convenient timing, if you could elaborate?"
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Ok, further opinions. Zerg Rush: abrasive, and the claim that it was flavour sits poorly with me; I don't think a zerg rush in any way requires rudeness, and even if it did I'm not sure roleplaying should extend that far. But rude =/= scum, and I see nothing to claim scum on; not as much content as others though. Rick has less against him but the same need to post more; fortunately, he seems to be aware of this.
AyB: meh. Can't get a solid read on him; slightly more suspicious of them than the above two. Dawg likewise.
Demotivational Poster: less erudite than many, but is posting good content. Definitely on the townier end.
In summary, a whole lot of nothing, which is pretty much what I remembered. Good hiding place for scum, but they can't all be scum.
2g1c posts, and... has a point; first post of the day is a less suspicious place to make that claim than any later one. You're right, it's not the timing of your post that's convenient so much as the claim after the first night; you can and do cheerfully avoid giving any kind of grounds for why you were picked, which you wouldn't be able to get away with later. Also, Hijack was making a case against you, and given that Hijack is about as respectable a player as we have at this stage, you could've expected to come under more scrutiny, so I don't think the attention is as unexpected as you make out.
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(http://imgur.com/tTbM4.jpg) (http://imgur.com/tTbM4.jpg) "Because saying anything else would have been rather pointless? A roleblock does not mean the targeted person should roleclaim, it just means they were roleblocked. Doing anything more than that is disadvantageous; while the info -might- help town, it also would help scum, and that's something town should avoid. Simple enough, no? And as for why I was picked... uh. How would I know that? Answer: I don't. I can't. That's a really goddamn weird line of logic to make, unless I misread you, Mr. Box.
"Sure, Hijack was making a case on me. No one else seemed to even really care/notice that I existed, which I admit my day 1 play merited; I had issues reading those posts and thus mainly just focused on the few cases and data I could follow. Regardless, one vote on me was hardly worrisome
"Also, uh. You realize Dawg (as opposed to Dog) is dead... right?"
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And as for why I was picked... uh. How would I know that? Answer: I don't. I can't. That's a really goddamn weird line of logic to make, unless I misread you, Mr. Box.
No one else seemed to even really care/notice that I existed, which I admit my day 1 play merited;
Indeed you don't know why, and you don't have to. You're claiming roleblockedness when you admit there is nothing in your play to merit it, and you can get away with that in a way that would draw too much scrutiny if you tried it later in the game. (Of course, if you really are town then you can't help when it happened, so it's nothing to come down on you too hard for - it does provide information, after all. But it means it clears you less effectively than it would later on)
"Also, uh. You realize Dawg (as opposed to Dog) is dead... right?"
Gah, another stupid mistake. I really thought I'd been paying attention to this game, but evidently not enough. Seems an odd choice for NK, but I don't think that thought leads anywhere.
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(http://i46.tinypic.com/wmibmq.jpg)
While I don't really see the case against 2g1c from Xbox, the content is definitely good on the whole, and pushes it far ahead of some of the lower ones, like AYB or the other two absentees. Russia's still the worst by far, and I'm guessing will be until I check back tomorrow, which won't be too long before deadline. (I should be around an hour or two before deadline, but not on the deadline itself. AGAIN. Argh.)
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"And as for the roleblock? Uh, what, you want me to not inform town that there is a roleblocker? When I have this information given to me? And in a role madness game, you're accusing someone of softclaiming because... they were roleblocked? In a role madness game?
Besides the fact that the claim is already a heaping WIFOM in itself? Unless anyone happened to watch you last night, no-one knows there's a roleblocker for sure. We only have your word on it.
Also I'm sort of unimpressed by your tone. Zerg got called out D1 for being overly unfriendly, and I'm seeing your posts as being rather aggressive. Could you at least let the calmer half of the pair talk once in a while?
As for not keeping perfectly up to date, I apologise for not being able to get into the game as much as I would have liked. I don't want to drop because that'll only make things worse, and at the same time we've already had to call on a replacement for Hueg. So sorry if I'm not being helpful or fluent, but last I checked a living Townie was never less useful than a dead one.
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Apologies for the lack of presence, went to visit my father only to find out his computer exploded, just got back and am pretty tired, going to take a nap and hopefully have something after I wake up.
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##Unvote: X-Box
Now that they're around... the case on 2G1C is... odd logic. I don't think that it's an auto-pass on the day, but at least it's coming out swinging from lurkertude instead of a soft return like yesterday. I would say he's still worth looking at, especially should we get 2G1C's alignment.
Russia: I don't think that the hammer auto-clears Rick. But it's enough to at least reconsider pursuing him over other lurker cases. At this point though, seems like scum scrambling for a position after barely surviving yesterday, especially considering his flip-flopping and odd stance on Astley/2G1C.
##Vote: Soviet Russia
Unexpected interruption. More later.
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(http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/9307/660467.jpg)
(note to self: put more effort into these pictures, or you'll just turn Advice Dog into extreme Twitter)
But yeah, what madness have I returned to?
!Cake and 2g1c, the two with claims to at least delay the need to lynch them, at each other's throats! Honestly guys what the hell. It makes perfect sense for 2g1c to claim to have been roleblocked, especially in a role madness game where scum gain little to nothing for knowing of the block. Really guys, you need to back off each other for now at least. You especially, 2g1c: I can at least understand why !cake might still chase you if !he was quite so strong against you (although really, !his case is bad), but !cake's claim has utterly sealed !him and I could not be more firmly against !his lynch today, short of bonus information. These two lines are almost certainly the two worst possible ones to go down today.
Don't like the other lines against 2g1c regarding the claim. Do I really need to explain why I think it's clear that the claim should deflect anything but the reddest of hands at this point?
Was about to call the mod out about the lack of a Boxed Air mod kill warning and start wondering about the potential of a silencer again. Even better, I get ninja'd by the very person as I type the very paragraph. Great.
Big Black Box gets an upgrade, which I guess makes it the XBox 360. Never like the concept of replacements, but rather sooner than later. Not especially thrilled by what I'm reading. The Hijack is so townie it's suspicious? You know, it's one thing to be sensible and on guard to everyone, but you've crossed the line there by even suggesting 'too townie to be townie' (as opposed to, you know, finding actual faults with active players). Thought it might just be a cautionary tale, but no, you take this and say that someone else looks better.
Bad arguments on the Commie are becoming a dime a dozen. The latest one being from XBox 360 for [not] claiming the extra night kill, in what was blatantly a theme related joke. Which is apparently the key thing you have against him. Plus you're kinda-sorta pushing an actual rolefish there. And arrgh, another opinion that lolcat on the Commie warps the Commie's odds of being scum. Do not want. Bad bad bad bad bad. Do not focus on the last point.
Poster: Commie's case on Milhouse was effectively that he was trying to form a dichotomy on o9k and Commie too early in the day, which would be scummy if true. This is not at all the same as Commie's attempts to drum up attention on his lynch candidate today.
Not sure why I've suddenly become the Commie's PR dog, but these things happen.
CATS have now been gone for well over 24 hours since 'proper post coming, brb' as well. Awesome sauce.
I should probably rethink my exact positions based on all of the recent developments, but at a quick stab I'd say my top three are -2C > CATS > XBox 360. Should re-figure where Rick falls in all of that, settle down and see if my gut reaction on XBox 360 is overreaching, and then Boxed Air is a nightmare enigma to fit in anywhere. -2C and CATS top the list for today regardless.
Ninja by -2C: wait what. I call you on setting up a simple lazy delayed vote and your response is... to... do exactly that? Don't give me anything about how it clearly isn't worth being on XBox 360 now, because that's the thing - there never was a point in being on the box.
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(http://edu223s2009.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/motivation.jpg)
Does anybody have any motivation at the moment? If it hadn't been for Soviet's hypocrisy, I'd've pretty much given up this day through tiredness.
Anyways, really not seeing the case against 2g1c. Day 1 content was low, but that applies to a lot of people, and D2 has been pretty good.
Combo ninja: ...and that's the easy switch mentioned earlier. ugh. When there is scummy play around, LaL is not the way to go, and this shows exactly why.
Ninja Dog: Okay, I see the point, but I still don't like the "We must DEFINITELY LYNCH HIM NAO" attitude when more than 36 hours remained. Still seeing a strong case against the Soviet, personally, although Combo's climbing that list very quickly. I'm hoping for another response from Soviet sometime soon and, assuming nothing else changes, will probably decide my lynch based on how good that is.
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(http://www.macrochan.org/images/M/O/MOBPPWUXLXOBY5FG3NPBBA4E462KQUVY.jpg) (http://www.macrochan.org/view.php?u=MOBPPWUXLXOBY5FG3NPBBA4E462KQUVY)
Thought it might just be a cautionary tale, but no, you take this and say that someone else looks better.
Wasn't what I was trying to say; I do think the hijack quite towny, which was why it's in the paragraph it's in. I just want to make sure there's no risk we start collectively outright trusting it.
[not] claiming the extra night kill, in what was blatantly a theme related joke.
Looking back I can see that reading. I took it as more, and a significant "I neither confirm nor deny X" is about as unhelpful as it gets. I'm sure the commie will understand I don't want an actual roleclaim; I just want it to clear up what it's actually trying to say.
Ninja'd by the demotivator:
Anyways, really not seeing the case against 2g1c. Day 1 content was low, but that applies to a lot of people, and D2 has been pretty good.
That's exactly what I find suspicious; there's been a huge shift in gear, and 2g1c wasn't simply not posting on D1, but rather posting with low content, so it's not simply a matter of not being able to get to a computer or whatever. Of course not 100%, but it's the best case I can see right now. (Why isn't my vote where my mouth is, I hear you cry? Answer: I think we'll learn more from commie at the moment, and I still think his behaviour is enough to justify it).
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@Advice Dog: back now, posting now. Patience.
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KEKEKEKEKEKEKE!
Things that are not helpful:
1. Apologies.
2. Statements that you can't get into game as much as we'd like.
3. Excuses for presence to anyone who is not the mod.
Let us see a little less of all three.
KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE!
In regards to Soviet, while I can understand the imperative to make sure lurkers don't get away with lurking, focusing in on them over scummy behavior is just strange to me. Especially when you add in that little tidbit about "look, look, I'm totally right!" Yes, lurkers are bad, but focusing in on them can do next to nothing for town as well for a variety of reasons. At the very least, spending time looking back on the people you didn't like and dredging up either support or a breakdown of your argument WHILE PURSUING LURKERS would be very useful. Just sort of scattershotting and then latching onto a lurker? Not so much. Attacking lurkers is fine and good, but if you spend too much time looking at people who aren't doing anything, then you're going to get blindsided by the active scum.
So let us make sure this is 100% clear. Pursuing lurkers is fine, but I still, even after hearing from you, dislike the fact that you didn't put effort into digging up more substantiation on the people you thought looked bad, and the slight tinge of directing people away from looking for active scum doesn't sit well at all for me.
KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE!
Looking back on All Your Base, there are several things about his posts that do not sit well with me. Day 1 content, although it looked fairly big (a lot of words to be said), it isn't as much content as it actually looks like, which is never particularly good. The big thing that gets me, though, is the "scum wouldn't play that stupid" argument, because once you start thinking that way, you've pretty much already lost to WIFOM. Similarly, he indulges in this again in Day 2 with the lolcat/soviet vote. There are actually very good reasons to push on a scum bus train when there is a simultaneous town train! Massive cred, provided you can make the right arguments. And, of course, the classic "I'll post shortly" followed by disappearing. Utterly useless, slightly suspicious but a decent smokescreen. Want to see this promised post.
KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE!
Advice Dog: Could you do a chattering horde of insectile beasts a favor and post just a quick, condensed, cliff notes version of your argument on -2C? I'd appreciate it.
KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE!
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(http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/9618/yugi.png)
Right! I got some time and a l'il alcohol in m'system, let's get some shit done 'ere.
That big box over there, he's got nothin' worth praisin'! What're you non-Dog lunk'eads doin' goin' all "oh that's some good content there"? Points offa Demotivate for that, and some offa Combo Crusha too for lettin' that sway him! He's suspicious of the two girls for puttin' more effort inta Day 2 than Day 1 an' the Ruskie for not not claimin' properly! Whazzupwidat? Puttin' more effort into Day 2 than Day 1 ain'a scumtell, ya got more info to work with on Day 2 so a'course you'll be makin' better cases! The Ruskie accusation is jus' awful an' is made even more awful by attachin' a vote to it, but Dog's alreddy gone ova' it, no need t'repeat what he said. The two girls have also done a smashin' job takin' his later arguments against 'em to task.
Then he says Dog an' I are suspicious because we're posting stuff he likes! Wahahaha! What a load! "[Dog's] ability to uninterruptedly WoT overnight means we'll already be on guard against letting them control anything" doesn't even mean anythin'! "Tryin'a lead discussion" is a bad accusation anyway. I'm postin' cases for people to see 'coz I want people t'see 'em an' agree! That's the whole bleedin' POINT of makin' cases at all!
Afta' that is a whole buncha nothin'. Talks about how lurkers are bad, makes some useless statement about replacement WIFOM that I c'n only barely wrap m'brain around, says Shana looks good to him but doesn't really explain why. I'm thinkin' Shana is prob'ly town, too, but not because she talked about the dead cat's relationship with th' Ruskie. Hell, as long as we're goin' this route, Shana looks good to me too, but I can't be unfaithful t'my li'l Parsee, y'know? Wahahaha!
Then there's a buncha "post more"s at Zerg Rush, Ricky and CATS. I guess the box thinks talking about lurkers an' tellin' 'em to post more is CRUISE CONTROL FOR TOWN or somethin'! Well, it ain't. There's absolutely nothin' in all them words to make me think I should move my vote.
Now, back to them two girls. Zoggin' hell, what's with th' vote for th' Cake? If he didn't kill the cat, where d'you propose the extra death came from? If he did, why're you votin' for him? You're here t'hunt scum, not chase third parties around.
Whoa, buncha new posts in here! Lemme get this out and catch up on all them words.
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"Tryin'a lead discussion" is a bad accusation anyway. I'm postin' cases for people to see 'coz I want people t'see 'em an' agree! That's the whole bleedin' POINT of makin' cases at all!
Absolutely. But it's essential that they not be read uncritically. Which is perhaps too obvious to be worth stating, in which case I apologise for the waste.
I'm thinkin' Shana is prob'ly town, too, but not because she talked about the dead cat's relationship with th' Ruskie.
That's hardly my sole reason. It's just that I think she's right, and people have outright stated the contrary, without an actual counter-argument.
Then there's a buncha "post more"s at Zerg Rush, Ricky and CATS. I guess the box thinks talking about lurkers an' tellin' 'em to post more is CRUISE CONTROL FOR TOWN or somethin'! Well, it ain't. There's absolutely nothin' in all them words to make me think I should move my vote.
What can I say. You are, I fear, right; I haven't been playing great, but I've tried to press the best cases that I can see, and I've given my reasons. Volume alone isn't enough, but I'll be replying anywhere I can, and reading what I can into what everyone says. Hopefully sooner or later I'll spot something that makes me worthwhile.
(Contrary to that, it's approximately bedtime now; I'll hang around a little longer, but then back in eight hours)
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(http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/9939/yugiannoyed.jpg)
Wasn't what I was trying to say; I do think the hijack quite towny, which was why it's in the paragraph it's in. I just want to make sure there's no risk we start collectively outright trusting it.
That's not what "suspicious" means an' you know it. I don't expect everyone t'go "oh look at big strong oni over there we know oni never lie so we're going to follow her to th' deepest depth o' Hell" and I don't plan on takin' that stance on anyone else in the game, not even fellas like Advice Dog. I don't even expect people to agree with ev'ry single opinion I have, and I don't think anyone else is expectin' that either. This is nothin' but a buncha fearmongering.
Looking back I can see that reading. I took it as more, and a significant "I neither confirm nor deny X" is about as unhelpful as it gets. I'm sure the commie will understand I don't want an actual roleclaim; I just want it to clear up what it's actually trying to say.
Izzinit obvious? He's sayin' that what he said was a joke and not to read into it because he might or might not have been responsible. Askin' him to explain further is rolefishing (or would've been if not for the Cake's claim) because wantin' a claim of "the kill wasn't mine" just tells scum where not to look for the source of the second kill!
Answer: I think we'll learn more from commie at the moment, and I still think his behaviour is enough to justify it)
Please tell me this means somethin' other than "I'm votin' Commie for th' info his lynch'll give us", because that's how it zoggin' well looks t' me, and that's a terrible reason to vote for someone.
while I can understand the imperative to make sure lurkers don't get away with lurking, focusing in on them over scummy behavior is just strange to me.
I'm gonna let the Ruskie handle th' rest of yer post 'imself, but this needs outside addressin'. Read the oarfish's blabber (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100255.html#msg100255) about th' subject. Lurkin' and postin' nothin' meaningful when y'do post is scummy behavior and y'need to stop differentiatin' the two. Go back and look at the dead cat an' tell me what argument y'would've made against him that isn't "lurkin' an' not posting anythin' meaningful when they did post".
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@Advice Dog: relax, here it is. I have many bases to manage to make sure that they all still belong to me, this takes time (in addition I was extremely tired yesterday and not feeling well, when I checked the thread 12 hours ago there was a complete lack of activity and I decided that leaving my post until after I sleep for a bit was alright...and then I wound up sleeping for 10 hours. I apologise to everyone for this.)
Do I really need to explain why I think it's clear that the claim should deflect anything but the reddest of hands at this point?
Yes, it's useful that they're letting town know that there exists a roleblocker, but at the same time, how does it clear them? Pardon me if I'm being blind or something atm.
@XBox: two issues I have with your post: A) I think you're reading too much into a very, very obvious In Soviet Russia joke. I don't think the Comrades there were actively trying to hint at something, rather they were making the painfully obvious joke and trying to further specify that it was, y'know, a joke. Second of all, not sure I am comfortable *at all* at the Too Townie jabs at both Touhou Hijack and Advice Dog. I mean what? Seriously? "They're posting good-quality, informative content that I often agree with, therefore they are suspicious"? Huh?
In general I'm not sure I agree with everyone that XBox's latest posts are good. Yes, there's actual content from them, which is a lot less than can be said about the older model 'box, but there are a lot of oddities among them. Bad arguments on the Soviets, random "too townie" statements, really strange case on 2g1c (I especially love the whole "oh how convenient that you claimed about being roleblocked N1, Hijack was making a case against you, and he's among the most respectable players we have here, yet at the same time he's so townie that I'm slightly suspicious of him myself". Something doesn't really add up here.)
C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!: um, what? How does Soviet seem like scum "scrambling" to save themselves? Furthermore, how does the hammer push Rick in front of other lurker cases, when as he said, he was willing to do it. Granted, it is a bit weird, but I don't think it's enough to push him to the forefront - and this is beside the case that I don't think that D2 is the right day for a lurker lynch anyway. Dog does an excellent job stating why lurker pressure votes are, honestly, a bit dumb, i.e. your vote on XBox shifts off him immediately once he's back.
The one thing that bothers me about Soviet is his post here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100254.html#msg100254) Six hours, and nothing, and you have free time, yet despite that you post...nothing really useful, instead of an argument as to why a lurker lynch is a good thing D2, and why Astley over other lurkers? This is...decidedly unsettling.
@Zerg Rush: honestly, you could argue that "scum wouldn't play this stupidly" is WIFOM. And it is. Yet at the same time, there are so many things that Soviet has done, so many, that are almost textbook blatantly-scummy. The D1 No Lynch post. The sudden shift to a vote on O9K. LAL today. Not really posting today about why LAL is good. Etc. Really, it is WIFOM, but...honestly, it just seems so over-the-top and so blatant that I'm not actually sure what to do with it.
That being said, the Soviets are starting to make me a bit queasy. However, at this moment I still thing that C-C-C-C and XBox 360 are better targets right now:
What unsettles me about C-C-C-C is general laziness and a lurker vote on XBox, which gets pulled off immediately once XBox 360 posts (posts something that's not really substantiative, really, for that matter), then a switch back to Soviet Russia without much proper caseing: while voting for Russia is not bad right now given his content quality, "vote now post case later" is really irksome, especially when the little justification you have in your post is just...what.
XBox 360, on the other hand, comes out of lurkersville to post...what is basically abject nonsense, with several things not adding up. What unsettles me further is a lot of people claiming this is good-quality content: I'm not seeing how it is, at all. In fact I think there's more of a reason for an XBox vote at the moment than before, as he's switched from being a lurker to being scummy: ##Vote: XBox 360.
This is still subject to change, I need to go over D1 again now that I'm not exhausted and mildly sick, I'd like to see Soviet come back, and, y'know, justify LAL as a strategy today, among other things, and I'd really like to see C-C-C-C post something substantiative, for that matter. Thankfully though I will now be actually around.
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(http://nerdnirvana.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/red-ring-499x400.jpg)
Yeah, I.. wow. Just went back and read Xbox's first post after the call from Touhou. It's a lot of active lurking, isn't it? Annoyed at myself for skimming over that the first time, and can't help feeling I'm tunnelling against Soviet now as a result. Definitely worth a re-read when I've more time and my computer's not being a bitch. The fact that Soviet's arguing against role speculation after pushing No Lynch D1 is ridiculous, and I still don't buy his "It's a TRAP!" argument from D1 with regards to that.
...Wow, also thought "Yeah, that Russian post he linked to -was- bad!" and... he attacks it for all the wrong reasons. grasgsdahasdfad.
Xbox and Touhou ninjas.
Xbox: That's because whether or not the Cat's flip affects thing comes down to whether you see it as a WIFOM or not. There's not really much of a counter-argument to put forward to that view other than "WIFOM, ignore."
Touhou: Seems obvious to me that the third quote there is "Both are suspicious, but this one gives more info." It's not all about the info, from the looks of things.
Otherwise, just to differentiate between lurking and active lurking. Active lurking is scummy. Lurking on it's own is not scummy, that's modkill territory.
Holy crap AYB ninja posting now and then reading.
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Please tell me this means somethin' other than "I'm votin' Commie for th' info his lynch'll give us", because that's how it zoggin' well looks t' me, and that's a terrible reason to vote for someone.
That's not what it means at all; I want to see what the commie says while under a bit more pressure, and how the rest of us react. If it came down to me singlehandedly choosing who to lynch right now, it would be 2g1c. But even assuming enough people were with me to put 2g1c in danger, I think that would be less informative; apart from anything else, they were happily back-and-forthing with me without needing the emphasis of a vote.
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(http://www.filehurricane.com/viewerthumbnails/52200823144PM_522.jpg)
Okay, nothing to add from that except that the whole paragraph to Zerg Rush changes nothing for me. I'm still seeing the "so scummy they can't be" as bad, in much the same way Xbox's "so townie they can't be" was terrible. If someone is acting scummy, don't just give them a free pass, especially not in Anonymafia.
Xbox ninja... what. Saying the vote is a pressure vote only removes any pressure it applied, and you should definitely clearly state who you think is scummiest if you're not voting for them (and that should only be in situations close to lynch anyways.)
Soviet > Xbox >>> AYB/Combo. Will wait until Soviet's next post to see if it pushes him ahead of Xbox in my eyes.
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Can't sleep. Town'll lynch me.
Saying the vote is a pressure vote only removes any pressure it applied
It's not a pure pressure vote; I still consider soviet russia an entirely viable lynch. So the pressure remains real.
and you should definitely clearly state who you think is scummiest if you're not voting for them
Doesn't that go against the above?
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Demotivator (mostly) unrelated, but awesome. (http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0910/internet-fights-demotivational-poster-1256332419.jpg)
There are a few situations I can understand not voting for the scummiest person, though (being close to lynch being the main one), which is what the second point refers to. In those cases, you need to say who you think is scummiest.
Otherwise? Don't tell someone a vote is just a pressure vote, whether it is or not. And the way you phrased that before was horrible, hence me seeing it as you going "lol pressure" and nothing else.
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Okay, I'm finally back from the weekend. Terribly sorry about disappearing, but I left before day 2 actually -started- and wasn't able to at least publically give the heads up on it before going (mod was notified, at least). And... mrrrrrf, I have a lot to catch up on. I'll do reading/re-reading to catch up on the times and will try to post something coherent as soon as I can wrap my head around what happened here.
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Fever of 101 degrees. Going to keep this brief; I'd wanted to break down Combo and Shana a bit but I don't think I'm going to stay awake that long. RP also out the window for this post, can't be bothered to pull out my pics.
Apologies for tone, I got rather annoyed because it's felt like 90% of my posts aren't even being read and so I was snapping at people. Said anger also lead to the !cake vote. Bluntly put I still do not trust !cake, and disagree with Touhou on solely lynching scum - we are to eliminate all non-town aspects. But the lynch won't go anywhere, in retrospect.
##unvote: The Cake Is A Lie
Uncertain how close I am to lynch. Regardless. Wrapup of thoughts: Shana I wanted to look over because thinking on it I'm not certain on her, which doesn't fill me with confidence. Think she only has a post today, might have two, can't recall which. Combo's struck me as low-grade offbeat all game and while I can't qualify that yet (want to do a breakdown on him first) it's something I wanted to look into. That's why I wanted to break down those two.
Putting Astley aside as well since that seems to be a waste of my energy and I've had one of the more aggravating points explained,
##vote: Soviet Russia
Covered my grievances there earlier, page 8 in specific, used name Red Red Red. Exhausted now, passing out.
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can I has votecount :V
XBOX: Invoking the ol' too townie fallacy, I see! Not exactly a brilliant start, and the textbook way in which you seem to run through the player list over a few posts to talk about most of the game doesn't sit too well. focussssss. (continued disagreement with demotivation that the content is good on the whole too.) So.. it looks like I agree with AYB mostly here.
2g1c: Are you implying cake is thirdparty there? >_>
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(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/2084/yugismile.jpg)
I got basic'ly nothin' else to say 'bout the box, his buncha posts really speak for 'emselves at this point. Knee-slappin' that he says the two girls are the ones that he's most suspicious of while his vote ain't there, since I'm not thinkin' they're really close to a lynchin'. Demoman's gone over the pressure stuff for me.
Waitin' for a vote count, a Ruskie post, a Milhouse post, a Princey post...God, I zoggin' hate waitin'. Guess I'll go'n'see what Parsee's up to. Maybe snag a drink or ten while'm out an' about, too.
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(http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/3069/662001.jpg)
Suddenly activity! Everywhere! Really, practically everywhere!
Before I navigate this wild new landscape, two direct questions to answer. The game theory I think clogs up space, but hey, I tried to leave it out earlier.
Do I really need to explain why I think it's clear that the claim should deflect anything but the reddest of hands at this point?
Yes, it's useful that they're letting town know that there exists a roleblocker, but at the same time, how does it clear them? Pardon me if I'm being blind or something atm.
As a general rule, claims tie people down to observable facts further down the line. It is not the be all and end all (no, it does not clear), but often strong enough to postpone minor threats, especially early on. In this particular case with a roleblocker, if 2g1c is scum then she knows if there's a roleblocker or not. But if she knows there's a roleblocker then she knows there's a large risk from someone else claiming to be roleblocked, especially in this role madness set up. So that much you should see can be ruled out. Otherwise she knows there is no roleblocker, in which case she's massively backed herself into a corner because the 'roleblocker' needs to keep on producing results, which can only happen on herself or on other members of the scum team, which will look horrible regardless and even worse if there's someone out there who screams 'roleblock me' who then isn't. In short I'd all but dismiss that there for all but really gutsy scum, and the set up doesn't make me suspicious of that.
But sure, now assume she's town, and hence has been roleblocked. That roleblocker then either moves to someone else, who can then corroborate her claim, sticks to 2g1c to keep her roleless and unconfirmed, or forego the action altogether. In any case, waiting even one day gains town something and costs scum something else. I really shouldn't go into any further specifics around this point as there are a lot of different cases depending on which roles are around as to what I'd expect from scum and what town ought to do, and that's a huge barrel of wrongness.
There are ways this resolves inconclusively, and the interesting way to break this is if it's a town roleblocker, but the latter is pointless role speculation up to the point that such a claim is made, and the former just means a resolution depending on the circumstances (positive if, say, it looks like the roleblocker was lynched. Negative if, say, the set up doesn't justify the person having been roleblocked).
Anyway, at a basic level it's a minor positive, with an amplified effect for it being early in the game. It should not draw you away from someone you're really sure of, but should likely be the tipping factor on close calls at this point due to the likely payout, and how dangerous it is for scum if there is a lie, as it can go wrong in so many ways. In this particular case I'm far more inclined to push it as genuine given the context of the claim and the plausibility of 2g1c being roleblocked (argh, no, don't really think about scum actions as part of the case, but I can see town2g1c being a guess from scum for key power role. No, don't think about the plausibility of whether she actually is a key power role or not, that's irrelevant. Mess mess mess mess mess, and part of why it should go unsaid).
Advice Dog: Could you do a chattering horde of insectile beasts a favor and post just a quick, condensed, cliff notes version of your argument on -2C? I'd appreciate it.
KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE!
As good a time as any to recap on the situation, as the various shinies seem to be distracting from it.
The case on C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER, AKA C-C-C-C, AKA -2C
Screamingly Clear Issues
- Setting up and executing one of the laziest delayed votes I've ever seen. Incredibly predictable in execution (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100312.html#msg100312) right from the start (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100158.html#msg100158). Model quote for this being "I'm not pulling off until X-Box posts something substantive. (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100212.html#msg100212)"
- When Retconning Goes Wrong. Responds to 'what's with the shift in opinion on Commie between days?' by saying (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100212.html#msg100212) that Commie is in fact still top of his list and has voted... for someone less scummy... because... uh... uhhhh...... it was a point worth mentioning? This point combos with the above quite neatly.
Other Issues Of Differing Importance
- Another delayed vote (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99757.html#msg99757) back in day one on Dawg. A lot less bad than the other one, when taken by itself.
- The aforementioned change in tone with the Commie. Solid proponent of the train day one even in the face of the mountain growing under o9k, which suddenly translates into light prodding at the start of day two while he whistles his way onto a lurker vote.
- Third paragraph here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100158.html#msg100158). Garble garble garble garble.
- Case on the original big black box wasn't explicitly for the dedicated levels of lurkery, but for the total coincidence that his joke vote happened to be the person the box ended up wanting to vote for.
- Oddly shallow case on the Commie despite him topping his list.
- Do a calculation on how much of his input is in the form of asking questions. Add that to talking about waiting for answers.
- Misrep on Dawg day one. Oh god don't bring this particular point to the foreground again we'll be here all day.
- Argument that followed the above, that span on to the end of day one. Very aggressive about turning something that should have been a case to brush off into something to actively turn against Dawg. Key quotes here would be "I would say [...] you're actually trying to paint me in a bad light now (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99864.html#msg99864)" and practically the entire first paragraph here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99922.html#msg99922).
- Left his joke vote down through a serious post before finally switching at the sign of the first shiny thing.
- Very oddly supportive of o9k, even on his slide out. I don't expect this point to convince many/anyone, but I would expect some scum to be positive about the lynch candidate to gain minor rep later for not being on the train. That much is standard, but how overly scummy o9k was despite being town is not, and I figured any such support for o9k should be taken under serious consideration as potential scum, and -2C comes out trumps in support of o9k, if still sedated.
I think that's it, if I'm keeping things relatively simple. May have missed something here or there, and have only rehashed my own points, so this is without other opinions on him.
Oh man I'm done. Let me actually read something new and return to the present.
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In Soviet Russia, mafia game read you!
As opposed to you reading it. Which seems to be the case for several people voting against loyal communist workers. I have no idea what to say when votes and arguments against me are constantly tempered by "Oh whoops didn't actually read X nevermind! But uh VOTE SOVIET ANYWAY he's an easy target!"
Uhh okay. Brave Soviets know better than to attack into Russian winter, though, so instead of even trying to array defense versus conflicting attacks, let us be clear.
Attacking 2 girls 1 cup for claiming to be roleblocked is stupid like capitalist economic system. Is like I not even looking at same game! Anyone actually voting 2 girls 1 cup for thees is capitalist or insane.
XBox come in, totally not read game, again ees like I am reading posts from strange foreign country. Is possibly very scummy, no idea what to do but okay with lynch.
Zerg Rush attack me for pursuing lurkers over old cases. This is silly, lurking IS scummy behavior, scummiEST behavior in fact, and stubbornly clinging to old cases with nobody else agreeing help no one. Meelhouse for example, case on him already made, and other townies say they not see it, they not agree. Fine for now. My point is made, town know I am wanting to lynch him, I know nobody else want to lynch him at present day, why continue to press issue with nothing new to say when other nations are embracing capitalism as well? (And why do I find myself under attack for trying to garner support on Astley now instead of Meelhouse?)
Advice Dog case on Combo Breaker look pretty sound, except accusations of support for O9k. I disagree on O9k being scummy, I definitely got confused loyal communist on him at end, and I know I am town so it is not at all impossible to figure out! On other hand, from own interaction with Combo Breaker, is obvious man is indeed not reading much and asking questions instead of answering, very passive. Willing to vote that too.
Would really like votecount, though. Confusing game, votecounts probably need to be more frequent than have been. Still prefer Astley for now since as far as I can tell he's a front runner in the "lynch 2girls for claiming roleblocked" stuff, in addition to his lurk and not say much positive.
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It's...it's...it's...OVER(due) FOR A VOTECOUNT!!!!!
Votecount
Soviet Russia: (6) - Demotivator, Zerg Rush, SHANA IS HOT, XBOX, COMBO BREAKER, 2girls1cup
Cake: (0) - Touhou Hijacker, Advice Dog, Zerg Rush, 2girls1cup
XBOX: (2) - Touhou Hijacker, COMBO BREAKER, Touhou Hijacker, All Your Base
2girls1cup: (2) - Touhou Hijacker Rick Astley, Cake
SHANA IS HOT: (0) - Cake
Rick Astley: (1) - 2girls1cup Soviet Russia
Demotivator: (0) - SHANA IS HOT
COMBO BREAKER: (1) - Advice Dog
With 14 memes alive, it takes 8 votes to axe someone in the face.
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(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/2181/662683.jpg)
Let's play catch up, Advice Doggy Style.
Guess I should have mentioned just how easily -2C jumps away from the XBox 360 in the face of this uninspiring performance. It makes the swap to Commie look all the more predetermined.
Oh man is the XBox 360 logic chip relentlessly bad. I don't actually aggrieve him for getting some baseline opinions down for everyone, given the catch up nature of the situation. But on top of the muck I've already dug up, I'm seeing the terrible line of logic going down against 2g1c regarding the roleblock that I disagree with on so many levels. Especially the level of insisting that 2g1c should justify scum's night actions. That's just terrible (#209 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100293.html#msg100293), #211 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100295.html#msg100295)). Foot then applied directly into mouth (and my palm to my face) for playing the "lynch for information, not for scummiest" game. Combined with back-pedalling already at this point, it's all looking rather bad (#218 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100320.html#msg100320)). Grararrrgglglgleeellelgee. That's the sound of XBox 360 with foot in mouth and down throat when then justifying some sort of crazy pressure vote but honestly guys I think this player I probably shouldn't be touching today needs to go (#226 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100330.html#msg100330)).
Disagree with the Hijack that we shouldn't be dealing with third parties in the general case, but in the specific case I don't especially care if !cake is a serial killer rather than a vigilante at the moment so long as !he's kept anti-scum, which !he's hammered himself into if true.
Disappointed with recent Poster play for the XBox 360 review, playing the waiting game on a Commie post to decide where his vote should be, and for bending in the wind more as time goes on. I liked you more when you had independent opinions.
Next I'm faced with CATS's Promised Post of General Longness. I always stumble when faced with a position from someone I've been waiting on that ends up mostly agreeing with my own positions as I can never tell how objectively I respond to them, but I'm reading this post relatively well, especially on convincing myself that a lot of what would otherwise read as rehashing very recent posts and aligning with myself and the Hijack doesn't really apply given that in at least the case of the Hijack, the posts were written concurrently. There are some minor things I should probably pick at, but don't feel the urge to press now. I'm a little confused about your position on the Commie, though, if you'd like to clarify that.
I don't see the Commie's claim that Rick has anything to do with voting for 2g1c for being roleblocked. I'd say the thing is having not referred to it at all. What I do find interesting is that this made me search Rick's posts for his case on 2g1c, which is... nearly non-existent. Outside of all of the defence on 2g1c's position on him, the one point of attack is for her case on !cake, which was already defunct, and it's actually a bad argument against her (defending !cake's rationale for not voting Zerg at the start of day one, which has been done to death and found 'guilty'). I'm really quite surprised, as I had this impression that they'd been fighting like cats and dogs for two days.
I can't say much to that vote count other than express my displeasure. Commie really isn't up there for me, and expect a scum or two to be on already (oh, hey there -2C, funny meeting you here). Would support a -2C, XBox 360 or Duck Roll v2 lynch at this point, roughly in that order. I'd rather not move down the chain from -2C if possible, but have flexibility as I'll be around for the deadline and the lead up to it.
That's enough from me for one evening.
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Tangent for Rickroll, even though he seems conspicously absent: the listing was mainly a list of possible leads that we could take into day 2, most of which I noted being worth looking at as it'd go - I admit I could have gone into things in more detail, but I was pressed for time and very tired, and I'll admit I'm hardly in my top form even now, having gotten back not too long ago and being highly wired as of now.
But I'd like to regard Adult Swim Dog/Yo Pimp My Ride/Crappy Fighting Game shenanigans - from the onset, I smelled something was up in the air - Breaker and Dawg engaged a catfight which Advice Dog came up in defense of Yo Dawg, and it advanced further than a small spat - in fact, Yo Dawg openly mentioned that he thought Crappy Fighting Game Mechanic was openly scum (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99919.html#msg99919). As the dust settled Pimp My Ride came up as a confirmed townie, and I have very, very little reason to think of Advice Dog as scum for the time being.
HOWEVER, Crappy Fighting Game Mechanic has managed to look steadily worse today - having read the mess we have today and looking back, I think there's good reason to think C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER may actually be scum. I could simply quote Advice Dog's entire last post summing up his case on Crappy Fighting Game Mechanic and take this for granted, since I think he hits more or less all the crucial points that need to be said here. Still, I'll try to reason in my own words a few things that deserve highlighting.
Here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100212.html#msg100212), we have Crappy Fighting Game mechanic trying to deflect away Advice Dog's suspicions via light misdirectional mudslinging and trying to look good by bringing up a paper thin case on a lurker alongside trying to justify suspicion on Soviet Russia being scummier than XBOX for the question he made about me that was answered by -many- people in varying ways (then later answered by Red Red Red himself. I don't know, but you're voting for someone over somebody else you find scummy and there's no threat of a lynch... why again? You didn't even gloss up on that.
Then, he swaps his vote straight into Soviet Russia (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100312.html#msg100312) with little to no justification even though 360's newly posted content itself hasn't made him look any better in any way from what happened before - in fact, XBOX's invocation of the "too town to be town" fallacy alongside posting a rather startling amount of air - AND -2C didn't elaborate on whether the question he asked Russia satisfied him or not either - which I'd expect him to at least touch upon, given how it was one of his main fusses today regarding the Commie. XBOX's rather unsettling content would give Breaker a good reason to stick with that vote and not look all that bad. But in fact, Crappy Fighting Game Mechanic didn't even -touch- upon XBOX's reasonings even though his swap vote came -after- XBOX had been replaced and started posting. This just looks very lazy and scummy to me.
While I'm not terribly keen on Soviet Russia's generally baffling play throughout, the way C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER seems to be skating on by trying to roll off the discussion and hoping to get away with the laziness of his rhetoric and choices sets me off something fierce. And even in the light of XBOX, Soviet Russia and Rick Astley's just general non-existence (and amazingly weak case on Slingshot Girls), I think I don't want to just lay this off:
##VOTE: C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER
Tangentially, I also have to agree with Soviet Russia and say that the whole WIFOMing over Cakeless and Slingshot Cupgirls in light of role madnessing is rather stupid, and so not very worth a vote, particularly at this juncture (and their catfighting over each other honestly kinda feels like a minor case of OMGUS). I hope this doesn't come off as amazingly tunnely against Crappy Fighting Game Mechanic, but I think we have something here.
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And ninja'd by Advice Dog, who also managed to summarized my line of thought. Oh well. =/ I need to go to bed right now, since I'll have a busy day tomorrow. Still alive, though.
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Ahaha, attempting to sleep with a fever is a no go. Figures. So back for a moment. Currently looking through Advice Dog's argument, and...
I'm not sure I'm seeing it, even with that laid out in front of me. My own breakdown on Combo would be: p3 prodding O9K for clarification, voting Dawg pretty much as followup vote, P4 made the observation on Soviet Russia that the no lynch vote really didn't stir discussion (which has factored into my own Russia issues heavily, so this is in his favor), but also started getting into the Yo Dawg trainthing more even with a swap off him. Uh, kay. Mmm, not agreeing with CCCC on reporter style Dawg either, but. P5, defense of himself from Dog Pack, generic comment on !cake's unwillingness to put soviet at L-1 which is about the last thing I found objectionable there. P6, continues to distance himself from the Yodawg case some, does a bit of poke/mudslinging (arguable which) which I responded to back then.
P8, says O9K was second on his suspicion list, which is kinda weird since he spent much more time on Yodawg/Soviet relatively, and at one point just said he considered O9K as confused town. Odd, yes.
...yeah, finished reread, definitely not seeing the case so clearly here. Somewhat off, but not terribly so, all things considered? I guess the main things I'd call him out on is the page 6 poke accusing me of vaguely voting/asking questions of Red Like Sirens when that wasn't the case, and the switch from "confused townie" day 1 to "#2 on list" beginning of day 2, almost... a distancing tactic in the opposite direction? I don't know. It reads off but I'm not sure it reads scum.
(NINJA INSERTION VIA SECOND ADOGGIE AND MINAMIAM: mmm. Okay, guess what? I'm dealing with those two posts later, will need to see if Milhouse's argument water holds and since I was the one pushing at XBox upon his resurrection from Dreamcast status I'm not sure how objective I can be there right now. So, note to look those two posts over for self.)
Shiki/Shana/FIREFIREFIRE: Breakdown, same format as Combo.
P3: Annoyance at Cake, votes/unvotes; votes instead for AYB for a somewhat questionable post. Replies to AYB, exhibits Soviet Shock Syndrome. P4, moves to O9K, uses the anti-lurker prod argument that we're also seeing day 2 from ADoggie -> CCCCCCCCCC, then moves to !cake after finding his reasoning for not voting Soviet questionable (which, as with CCCCCCCCC, I'm not sure I agree with; that was probably the sanest part of his post there). P6, backs off on Cake, claims it was more a gut vote, moves back to O9K since the recent posts did not impress, claims confusion at Soviets. P7, calls !cake out for hypocrisy, votes Demotivation... off logic I'm not fond of, but it seems more an honest miss? IOW I can see where the logic comes from but it does seem the other half wasn't spotted (that the flip was a null tell more than anything else). P8, swaps to Russia, states issue with Russia logic, not entirely sure I follow the jump here either. Might be fever kicking in hard, but.
Reads neutral in the end, logic issues and feels a bit light but isn't overwhelmingly bad? Geh. Regardless, here's these two. Want to reread Soviet's D2 stuff when I wake up, too, but for now, the glorious feverslumber calls.
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Да, comrades, I characterized Astley's case as being on 2girls' claim because... to be honest I couldn't tell what his case actually was, but rest of town buzzing about claim of glorious dual mail order bride offer so I figure I fail at deciphering Navajo crazy posts and Astley case seem to at least be related in some way.
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This may be a very silly argument, I may be missing something really obvious, but hey, I'm already looking stupid at this point.
If we assume a genuine roleblocker, and we treat a genuine roleblock claim as clearing the claimant, doesn't one of the best N1 scum uses become targeting one of their own? (Reasoning: on N1, everyone's shooting in the dark, but the roleblocker doubly so - even if you do hit doc or cop, the odds that they were pointed somewhere effective are small. Of course, preventing even a random cop investigation is nothing to sniff at, but still)
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Wowowowowow...Endless WOT'S, my brain really feels like it is about to melt after reading all that anyways on to the post.
So anyways, there seems to be alot of speculation on the nature of the roleblock claim, which is just needless stupid indulgence in WIFOM for now.
There seems to be a bit of a case on Astley which I'm honestly not seeing at all myself, though I don't really agree with him on his case on the Cup Girls.
Anyways, both the breaker of combos and the xbox look terrible to me right now, both cases have been covered rather extensively and I both too lazy and not feeling a need to further bog this game down with more WoT's reiterating the same thing that I've already been beaten to.
I'm no longer sure what I think on the Russian, don't agree with their case on Astley at all, but they generally seem to be trying harder to contribute today. I starting to think that the bad day one play is being used as an excuse for an easy train however, and since both the large box and breaker of combos are on that train, makes me think a little better of them for now.
So right now both of those two look incredibly bad, but to me the combo breaker looks worse.
##V-V-V-Vote: C-C-C-Combo Breaker!
Not going to bring up the points since Advice Dog pretty much summed them up and once again I don't feel like rehashing the same arguments.
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(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/1189/yugidrinking.jpg)
Man, Parsee never wants t'do anythin' fun...at least I got a drink outta all that.
Lookin' over what's gone on...I gotta say, Advice Dog does a great job showin' everythin' about Combo Crusha that's scummy. That hop off the box really is bad, worse than I said/thought it was at first glance. The box's last post looks like he might just be new/stupid town, too...
I still REALLY don't like the box, but in terms of actual scumminess from actions, with the repeated misrep and the suspect Box-to-Ruskie swing, I think I have to switch. ##Unvote: ##Vote: C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER
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After spending some time in France, Fyodor Dostoevskii finally returned to his home country, Russia. Walking into St.Petersburg after being away from Russia for so many years, he noticed that, while it was the same city, so many things had changed, that it seemed a lot like Paris, from where he had just recently left. In his growing despair, he set his baggage down on the ground, and prayed to the Holy Mother to give him a sign that he was back in his beloved Russia. Nothing happened! Distraught, he reached down to pick up his baggage and walk on -- only to realise that someone stole it while he wasn't paying attention to it. He looks up to the sky, and loudly proclaims Спасибо, Боже!, realising that at long last, he truly was finally at home.
My opinion of Soviet Russia reads a lot like the above anecdote. Basically, just nothing adds up about him: on D1 his play was awful, but his O9K case was reasonable, and his Milhouse case, while invalid, seems totally off-the-wall for a scum to be doing at that time on D1. D2 - while there is some elements of weirdass playstyle, it's not as objectionable as a lot of people seem to be seeing. His case on Astley was made for sketchy reasons, but at the same time Astley IS being scummy, as noted by Advice Dog et al. Disagree that lurking is scummiEST behaviour, yet at the same time, pressuring lurkers early-on in the day is actually quite valid. Importantly, there is very little that makes sense motivationally from a scum standpoint, and Russia also fails the idiot test - he seems to display a good understanding of proper mafia playstyle the entire time, except half the time he's playing well according to it, and the other half of the time he's hitting every single "DON'T EVER DO THIS" entry on the "how to play mafia terribly" list. Incidentally, his content has shifted more to the first option than the second now that D2 has began (and yes, there is no issue with dropping D1 cases once D2 has begun and we have more information + flips. I'm not seeing the issue with this standpoint, Zerg Rush).
The sheer number of easy voteswitches to him is also both disconcerting and exasperating. C-C-C-C looks especially bad for this, 2g1c at least has an excuse, and while XBox's vote for him isn't an easy switch, his reasoning for his vote ignores all the actually scummy things that Russia has done and instead votes him for something that's an absolutely fucking stupid reason, instead.
tl;dr of summary: a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma. Some very scummy stuff there. Some quite townie stuff there. imho, definetly not a good lynch candidate for today.
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KEKEKEKEKEKEKE!
I think perhaps the problem might be stemming from a contradictory use of words. I am thinking of lurker in terms of someone who is particularly avoiding posting instead of someone who is posting, but managing to avoid content of note. The former is not at all useful to town, but isn't consistently a tell except in certain circumstances, while the other is pure, textbook scum play. They sometimes sorta overlap (minimalized posting + no content). So, its possible I've been talking past you.
Since its your big case of the day, though Soviet, could you do me a favor and do the cliff's note version of your Astley argument for me? It would be appreciated as well.
For the time being, though, this is good enough for me to move on. I still don't like a lot of what Soviet has been doing (and none of it really adds up), but sticking to this like a rabid pack of zerglings isn't really going to help make progress on the day.
##Unvote: Soviet
KEKEKEKEKEKEKE!
Thanks Advice Dog.
Yeah, you do well to highlight some distressing play elements. The XBox vote today... really looks bad. Like, "I'm willing to start considering XBox/-2C silly scum team" bad. Exact same lurker over scummy folks issue I had problems with Soviet for (except even more pronounced, since XBox was a true, non-presence lurker) as well. Its good enough to earn a ##Vote: C-C-C-C-Combo Breaker
I certainly would like to hear the promised more!
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(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2033/2687315819_e2eeae92ba_o.jpg)
Skimming over walls of text to get a general feel for them. A lot of it is rehashing, so apologies if I miss something specific in the midst of a repeated case.
I'm somewhat amazed that 2g1c can't see the case on -2C. The weak vote switching is by far the worst thing to me, and am happy to see him go today based on that alone, to be honest. That said, 2g1c have been mostly solid to me so far, so it says nothing for now. Cause for concern if -2C flips scum, maybe?
Russia... Gah. Terribad D1, weak logic for the first half of D2... And still manages better than -2C. Alright, I'll bite.
##Unvote, Vote: C-C-C-Combo Breaker!
L-2, and that pushes him two ahead of Soviet as well. Hopefully that'll do for today.
I really need to take a re-read of things so as not to fall into the habit of just following the easy cases, but won't have time until after the deadline today. Will be around again an hour or two before deadline, but won't be able to go through everything.
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So. From AYB's opinion on soviet, I get the following; he sees scummy- no, what he pretty much calls blindingly textbook scummy play, yet manages to also conclude he's half town and a bad lynch target for today. I want to point out that this makes zero sense, it's like going 'So, 4 halved is 2.... so if you add 2 and 2... you get FIVE!' It appears that AYB is either terribly confused, or has access to a realm of mathematics in which mere mortals such us have no understanding. I do not agree at all with his standpoint on 'his posts lack scummy motivations'; his earlier justifications for targeting lurkers did not match the proper LaL criteria (one scum lurker != many scum lurkers!) and there would be a clear incentive for scum there to prey on a maligned segment of town. Voting No Lynch early is a null tell (and often people taking crazy actions early day one get away with it, any savvy player has a reasonable expectation of extricating themselves.)
Echoes of this stance are in Zerg's post. For the time being, though, this is good enough for me to move on. I still don't like a lot of what Soviet has been doing (and none of it really adds up), but sticking to this like a rabid pack of zerglings isn't really going to help make progress on the day.
What is this, if not finding a way to jump off a case by appealing to, I don't know, our sense of forward-thinking?
Annnnd the case on Combo. Yeah, after reading all this I don't like Combo much either. Most notably, his preference for clinging to XBoX over Soviet- and then switching to Soviet at a point where the man was well and truly the lynchtrainleader- has not done him any favours. I point this out specifically because it- much like the above two posters- has traits of wanting to avoid a particular lynch whilst saying what other people seem to be saying (i.e. supporting it, pretty much.)
I do not like this influx of what I can only see as excuses to not vote Soviet. Soviet's latest post is, in itself, okay... but it doesn't really clear my suspicions of him for the weird way he built hype towards LaL via lolcats or how it seemed to me he was pegging more on Astley than was really deserved. I plan to stick with his lynch and prefer it to Combos- frankly my second choice would be AYB at this point for all that internal back-and-forth. ("He's doing scummy things! But does that make him scummy? Man I don't know.") @_@
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oh yeah
2g1c! Why'd you vote cake post-claim again? Do you still think he was lying about viging (a truly amazing conclusion to come to, might I add!)
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Since I won't get a chance to use this otherwise, I might as well use this when I have nothing better. (http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/small/0905/lolcat-paparazzi-lolcat-paparazzi-spoof-doris-mwlf-is-handso-demotivational-poster-1241675187.jpg)
Soviet's done a lot wrong, but he's also done some right lately. You said yourself that his latest post is okay. Now look at Combo, and find his good post.
---and i've just been cut off. Back soon, hopefully.
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Well. A fine mess I've g-g-g-gotten myself into. I'm honestly embarassed by the post I left before I left yesterday. I got dragged away and instead of scrapping it I insisted on posting it, to the detriment of my character and town's time. It was one of those hand-to-forehead moments that just made me crawl into bed and try to refresh myself. I won't make excuses for it, but I will say two things in my defense.
Most of the heat that came down because of it is valid, but my case on him was a lurker case and I made the mistake of putting a pressure vote on someone I thought was less scummy than my #1 suspect without declaring it. I stand by the reasoning, at least at the time. The switch came from giving the new X-Box poster the benefit of the doubt being a substitute up until that point. The Milhouse lurking point he first brings up reads like something someone whose only really followed Day 2 would bring up. I wouldn't call Milhouse a lurker in Day 1 really. There was the case on Soviet, which I didn't have a problem with. The only thing that really struck me as iffy at that point was the case on 2G1C and the whole "you claimed roleblockedness" thing. But I mentioned this, and people claimed that I didn't seem to find enough wrong with X-Box even though I said he was still a suspect to me.
I felt kind of trapped in between someone I thought was scummy yesterday and still think scummy today (Soviet), and someone who I brought a case on today. Whether I switched to Soviet or stuck to X-Box, I think Dog's convinced I'm scum and I would have called me on it either way. So I had a choice to switch back to the person I thought worse or go with the new hotness. Despite how it made me look, I chose the former. It was unfortunate how it played out and if I did it again I'dve waited until I'd gotten back to lay it out, but there's no changing it now.
Second is more minor, but it's about the whole serious post in-between the jokevote and first real vote thing. Maybe in conjuction with everything else it seems to stack up, but honestly? It's not all that great reasoning, especially when confirmed townie Dawg did the same thing. (I'm aware that this also counters the argument I made against X-Box about chaining the joke-vote into a serious vote, but Dawg was more active and at least put together his own argument on the whole thing).
So Soviet... the dichotimous behavior I think is honestly a detriment to town. Yesterday there wasn't much to defend about him. Today, there is just as little, I think. Unlike the good representative from Shiki's pants, I don't see whats so good about Soviet's last post. It's basically doing what people accuse me of: reiterating other's points. 2G1C? Check. X-Box? Check. Me? Check. Responding to Zerg Rush about points made against him is the only original content there, and he presses Astley for... little to no reasoning. I don't see how anyone considers this better input than yesterday. This may be a lot of what I'm guilty of too, but I'm fine with being a hypocrite and calling him out on it. I'd rather be a hypocrite than let someone whose so obvious scum behavior goes unpursued for so long. Yes, I know he's a suspect and I have only myself to blame for letting him get away with it.
Other than Soviet and X-Box, if I should be eliminated, I would look at those who have jumped onto me without putting that much into it. Bel Air especially- All Your Base, Zerg and Touhou too.
I'm not going to be a self-defeatist about this, but if my lynch would help benefit town tomorrow to narrow in on worse targets, then I'm fine with that. Otherwise, I'm sticking to Soviet and thats all there is to it.
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I'm not going to be a self-defeatist about this, if my lynch would help benefit town tomorrow to narrow in on worse targets, then I'm fine with that. Otherwise, I'm sticking to Soviet and thats all there is to it.
This does not seem a healthy attitude, much as such resignation leaves my own neck in less danger.
I'm fine with being a hypocrite and calling him out on it. I'd rather be a hypocrite than let someone whose so obvious scum behavior goes unpursued for so long.
The problem with hypocrisy is that going after someone whose posting similarly to yourself only makes sense for scum. I of all people know town can make stupid mistakes, but if you're claiming to be a townie who's make a poor post you shouldn't have, what makes you believe that Soviet isn't the same? What reason do the rest of us have to vote him over you?
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Taking time to reflect - something I should have done before the post, but you'll always think of more just after you submit. I don't like the demotivator's voteshifting (and there's a hypocrisy angle there given that such seems to be his biggest beef with C-C-C-C), nor the very noncommittal promise of more later, but I particularly don't like this phrasing:
L-2, and that pushes him two ahead of Soviet as well. Hopefully that'll do for today.
Sounds to me like he's hoping vote numbers will make the difference, not any argument. He gives very little reasoning when switching vote, making it seem like it was more pressure on himself to justify his vote (and the numbers on C-C-C-C) that made the difference, rather than becoming any more convinced of C's guilt.
And it turns out I do feel strongly enough on this. ##Unvote, ##Vote: Demotivational Poster.
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(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5858/665269.jpg)
Only here briefly. Will be around for the last few hours of the day. May check back in brief patches between now and then.
Bad gut reaction to just how smoothly the train on -2C has come about, and driving myself paranoid about stupid potential teams as a result. On calming down I'm tossing that out of the window, as it can't hope to outweigh my strength on the case. The lurker dash to it is cancelled out by similar opinions from the players I trust more.
-2C raises an interesting point in that I'm not sure what reaction he could have come up with to shake me off, but I'm pretty sure that playing exactly to the script I'd mentioned for scum play can't have been far from the worst potential reaction. Notably I nearly unvoted you when CATS and I think it was Rick started looking worse, but it was at that point you introduced the horrible retconning, which made the vote for the big black box look so much worse.
XBox 360 dancing on -2C now. Is this new or consistent? No time to check. The thing I have with XBox 360 is that yeah, lots and lots of it strikes me as newbie errors and playing around with game theory poorly, but there's still quite a chunk of it that's still scummy, like the whole stupid pressure vote thing.
Still expect there to be scum in the ranks of the quiet. Top bet's on Duck Roll v2 for the shallow and poor argument/s, but Boxed Air is playing on cruise control to the max.
Ninja from the box: uh, Poster's gone down my happy chart consistently today, but I don't have the time this minute to evaluate any of that. 12 hours from deadline is not a good time to start a brand new case, though.
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The problem with hypocrisy is that going after someone whose posting similarly to yourself only makes sense for scum. I of all people know town can make stupid mistakes, but if you're claiming to be a townie who's make a poor post you shouldn't have, what makes you believe that Soviet isn't the same? What reason do the rest of us have to vote him over you?
People have given a lot of credit to the whole "active lurker" thing, and I think that he fits it more than to a T. He defines it. He brings it to new levels. His Astley case came out of thin air. It started as a lurker case with absolutely no reasoning other than being a lurker case. It's not how it started though that makes it bad, it's that he's stuck to it regardless of everything that has happened during the day despite his only real justification for it coming in this post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100228.html#msg100228), much further in the day. He's trying to play it off as new content... without adding any new content. I'll admit that Astley hasn't given him much to work from, but even pointing that out would help! He seems determined to ride it out, just because. Leaves him open to hammer, maybe?
Dog: Don't know what to say about X-Box's switch... Hard to say if it's consistant, as they just jumped into the role today. Vote-wise, he put it on Soviet and kept it there until now. But it just doesn't look good. I'm honestly confused at the reasoning, as it seems more like a case-starter than a vote-to-remind-later type deal, but the timing is baffling.
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(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3220/2685314109_780ed18740_o.jpg)
Gah. Demotivator for me today, as a good position D1 mixed with little time for Mafia made me run on minimal content today. Hopefully I'll improve on that for tomorrow, since I'll have more time, but I'll admit my content's been bad for today. This post is something of a mess, but is aiming to summarise stuff for today.
Last post was made in a rush, but I'm completely torn between the two. Combo's last post is mostly stuff that's been said already, as far as Soviet goes. Most of today seems to be Town following along with Advice Dog, so I'm somewhat concerned about that - not Advice Dog, since it's good content, but more everyone else who's followed along (Milhouse stands out for creating a WoT in rehashing it, although that's because of the absence).
ARGH. Having to move AGAIN. No idea when I'll next be around so... expect more tomorrow, and I'm sorry about the lack of content. >.>
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(http://imgur.com/mT1eA.jpg) (http://imgur.com/mT1eA.jpg) "Back, feeling better, should be around @ deadline. Responding to a few things first.
"Shana/Shiki/whatevs: Can you please actually prove you're reading my posts? As in, not ask me questions that were elaborated on in the two posts? First time, sure, whatever, but this time it just reads very poorly on your part, at least to me.
"Re: CCCCCCCC... I don't know. I think the case is one part good, one part somewhat overblown, I guess is what I'd say? I can see the foreshadowed move to Soviet Russia and the negligence on XBox's actual content, but some of the points feel overblown? (Looking at... MINAMIAM's first point, also commented on by Advice Dog. It's a headache of a block of words, but it doesn't seem too bad to me. MINAMIAM's second point, however, clarifies the switch issues, which I appreciate).
"Re: Hueg liek XBox...
"What.
"No, seriously, what. Are you still attempting to dig at that? Really, now. Attempting to theorize I'm scum (before you try and deny this part there is -absolutely- no reason to take that train of thought otherwise)... because scum's best move is to -roleblock- scum... despite, as you said, there are TOWN roles to block and blocking themselves is potentially harmful... I... no. No, that flies nowhere. This may be way too late, but Lord that stinks so far to heaven it's not funny."
##UNVOTE: Soviet Russia
##VOTE: Hueg Like XBox (follow the bouncing voting ball! Wow this is gonna be a silly voting record on my end.)
"Highly want XBox lynch at this point. Uncertain between CCCCCC and Russia, they're the next two. Some other suspicion of varying orders, and then a general concept of people I think at least cleared, but that info's irrelevant right now.
"Working on one more post, uncertain if I've the time for it, though. Will be breaking down XBox's few posts since the rejoin."
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Surprised this meme wasn't picked. (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Qm3hzkkNEuM/R5lZhosIkGI/AAAAAAAAAAk/LBcEgspOZ3U/s1600/Diplomacy%2Bdemotivator.jpg)
Anyways, as I was saying. I'm kinda concerned that nearly everyone's just rehashing the same arguments, but I know I fall into that as well. Overall, to me, this day is mostly written off when it comes to looking for who's most likely to be Town, meaning I'm forced to look at scummy play instead, which is where Combo and Soviet really excel.
To recap for personal use:
Soviet:
- Had the D1 "No Lynch" - would've written this off as bad town if not for the complete backtrack about halfway through the day to say "It's a Trap!" since I find that impossible to believe. Has made weak cases today using weak logic to push what are otherwise simply pushed as lurker cases. Bad logic throughout seems scummy as hell.
Combo:
- Nothing D1 that matters to me - the argument with Dawg can go either way, so null read. Mostly just active lurking, until D2 hits with that "I'll remove the vote when Xbox posts something good!" Removed it and went straight for the easiest case straight afterwards, has contributed nothing else.
So it basically comes down to "Scummy vs. Less scummy, but with major active lurking" for me. Combo's last post is... not amazing. Soviet's definitely not active lurking the way I see it - he is presenting new cases, no matter how bad they are. Xbox has been mostly weak, but I really don't see any point in anyone pushing that today - we've got two viable lynches in Combo and Soviet, both have been weak throughout, and I think we're too close to deadline to effectively push anything new now.
My previous post with the switch was bad, yes. Swayed by the case presentation from Advice Dog, and changed my vote without looking back over the case of Soviet. Sticking with that one, so:
##Unvote, Vote: Soviet Russia
Yeah, he's still behind Combo, but I can still be happy with a Combo lynch. And I know this looks terrible, but that's because my vote for Combo was bad, not this one, and so I'd rather correct my mistakes than leave a vote on someone I don't think deserves it as much.
2g1c Ninja: Right, gonna do a quick votecount. Hope this is all right.
Soviet Russia: (3) - SHANA IS HOT, COMBO BREAKER, Demotivator
XBOX: (2) - All Your Base, 2g1c
2girls1cup: (2) - Rick Astley, Cake
Rick Astley: (1) - Soviet Russia
COMBO BREAKER: (5) - Advice Dog, Milhouse, Bel Air, Touhou, Zerg
Demotivator: (1) - Xbox
asdfsdgfsdhfsht. Looking over Xbox's post against me, I think he's ignoring the entire case against Combo. My problem isn't with him moving votes, it's the logic he used to ensure he'd be able to. His entire argument against you was lurker, and so he had an easy switch as soon as you posted anything.
Gaaah, this is pain. I'm not likely to be around from now until deadline, and would still like to see Russia lynched. I'll leave my vote there, but will stop by later if I can. (http://rlv.zcache.com/its_a_trap_poster-p228365920868431378836v_325.jpg)
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Yo Dawg I heard you like votecounts, so I put a votecount in your game so you can stay updated while you vote.
Votecount
Soviet Russia: (3) - Zerg Rush, Demotivator, XBOX, 2girls1cup, SHANA IS HOT, COMBO BREAKER, Demotivator
Cake: (0) - Touhou Hijacker, Advice Dog, Zerg Rush, 2girls1cup
XBOX: (2) - Touhou Hijacker, COMBO BREAKER, Touhou Hijacker, All Your Base, 2girls1cup
2girls1cup: (2) - Touhou Hijacker Rick Astley, Cake
SHANA IS HOT: (0) - Cake
Rick Astley: (1) - 2girls1cup Soviet Russia
Demotivator: (1) - SHANA IS HOT XBOX
COMBO BREAKER: (5) - Demotivator, Advice Dog, Milhouse, Bel Air, Touhou Hijacker, Zerg Rush
With 14 memes alive, it takes 8 votes to axe someone in the face.
Day 2 ends at 6PM PST/9PM EST, roughly 9 hours from this post.
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(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/3842/koishicrop.png)
Can't say the Breaker's new set of posts does much to make me want to change my vote. Apologizing doesn't just make the bad things go away. Trust me, I should know. I hope someday I'll be able to fully open my third eye again...
CATS' post bothers me a little, not so much from a content standpoint, but because it's like he didn't even notice the Breaker train picking up. I know he said previously that he was going to wait for the Breaker to post something more substantial, but still, I'd think he'd see the string of votes and maybe rethink the Breaker for himself. One of those little subconscious pings, y'know?
Shana, I think you must have closed all of your eyes or something. The girls' reason for voting Cake is here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100344.html#msg100344).
Demote...wow. Seriously. What made you change your mind about your Russia vs. Breaker statement here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100414.html#msg100414)? A small amount of pressure from the Xbox's vote, that didn't really have a lot of oomph behind it anyway (especially given his case against you is highlighted by another wording argument that almost makes me want to switch back to him)? That looks like breakdown to the max there.
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Oh, dammit. Fucked up tags. :(
Also, short post, so demotivator is irrelevant. (http://maripossa.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/unique_by_krash.jpg) Or is it?
The post you linked to, Touhou, was a small follow-up directly after the previous one (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100410.html#msg100410), which was the bad post of mine I was referring to. Xbox's vote does mean nothing, and I'm not reacting to that, just putting my vote where it should have been kept in the first place. As bad as Combo's been today, there's no way I can just ignore the fact that Russia's been bad throughout both days on the grounds of him making one half-decent post.
Also got deadline wrong, apparently. Still won't be around for it, but should be around for a couple of hours now.
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(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/8901/koishihuh.jpg)
Something must be lost in communication here. Let's pick at your memories for a second.
Soviet's done a lot wrong, but he's also done some right lately. You said yourself that his latest post is okay. Now look at Combo, and find his good post.
I assumed this was in response to Shana, who expressed annoyance with "excuses to not vote Soviet". I assume the thought quoted above was a major reason for your first switch, since a thought like that is a good reason to change one's mind. I don't understand why this thought process stopped, because it's still true as far as I can tell, unless you think the Breaker's most recent posts are him "doing some right" (which you apparently don't think). You then break the decision up into "scummy vs. less scummy with major active lurking" (as if "major active lurking" isn't scummy) and then...go back to Russia? Why? I don't understand this. How was this decision made? Even if we assume that the quantity of Russia's scummy actions is larger (of course, I don't, which I admit may be coloring my view on this see-saw a bit), do you really think the collective scummy magnitude of his actions is larger than that of the Breaker's?
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Yo homies whats up?
Just finished glossing over the Russian, and honestly I'm back to thinking he looks bad, I'm starting to think my brain was so melted yesterday that I was simply happy to not see him pulling the no lynch IT'S A TRAP type stunt again today. So yeah, Russia is accusing Astley of voting for the cup girls based on their claim when it seems pretty obvious he was not, have pretty much stuck with that vote for who knows why, I'm pretty sure others have already gone over that, not seeing a reason to continually stick on Astley with the continual faulty logic.
So now I'm stuck at this point where the Russians are tied for C-C-Combo for who I think might be scum, but I don't think they're both scum off hand. So then I thought, "well hell, which one should I stick on" and it got me to look at where their votes are a bit and so here's what I'm thinking right now:
If Russia flips town, it makes Combo look horrendously bad due to the whole X-box switch of thing, x-box looks slightly bad by extension though he's not on the train himself right now, though he was earlier on. If Russia flips scum, Combo looks better, x box would look slightly worse to me since he got of the Russian once combo started looking worse to people, and then proceeds to place his vote somewhere that I don't really see picking up steam today.
In retrospect if Combo flips town, it doesn't really tell us much about the Russian, and fails to give info on the box also, whereas if he flips scum then X-box could probably be seen to be worse off.
Considering how torn I've gotten myself between Russia and Combo, I'm going to go ahead and switch to the one I think will give me more to work with, so:
##U-U-U-Unvote: C-C-C-Combo Breaker
##Vote: In Soviet Russia
Any thoughts on my logic? I'm interested to hear if anyone thinks it's no good, Startin making trouble in my neighborhood I got in one little fight and my mom got scared And said 'You're movin' with your auntie and uncle in Bel Air'
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Gonna lead this by saying that the roleblock is slightly Town, but mostly WIFOM. Assume there is a Roleblocker. They could have shot at someone at random as easily as they could have decided to target a fellow scum, so that they could continue roleblocking later on. Having the roleblocker role confirmed, the first person to claim being blocked would then be mostly given a clear. I ignored her claim of being roleblocked because I see it as WIFOM. Can we please move past this until it actually becomes relevant? Thank you.
Next, might I request that our fri (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkpC5HQqwv4)endly neighbourhood Serial Killer nuke whichever of our trains isn't lynched today? Either that, or we try to direct it elsewhere. We know that there's a serial killer/vigilante (which might or might not be killed/roleblocked tonight) so we might as well use it to our advantage. But, seriously. Why are we just leaving it alone, and some of us saying "we should deal with it later, if it proves to be anti-town"? That's some pretty anti-town behaviour, right there. Use the non-scum NK-er to our advantage, so we can keep them pro-town.
To re-hash on what I was saying about the case on 2g1c via their !cake case, I read what !cake was saying differently, and over-reacted. Will fully admit it. Also gonna fully admit to lurking (because I haven't had much to say so far) and to the fact that MINAM was, after all, just coming from gut. Now then, on to business.
##Unvote: 2g1c
##Vote: In Soviet Russia
Reasoning: Has been re-hashed. A dozen. Times. Over. There are two other things I'd like to point out, however: 1. Still voting me (even after admitting (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100374.html#msg100374) that I wasn't just attacking the Cup-Sisters for their roleblock claim) when there were clearly others to vote, or at least look at during its latest post. (Do you see any mention of anybody but me there?)
2. Hypocrisy. Lots of it. Attacks others for herding here, (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100154.html#msg100154) and then blatantly attempts to herd here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100231.html#msg100231) and here, (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100254.html#msg100254) and even admits he was trying to funnel votes onto me here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100363.html#msg100363) when complaining about others attacking it for "trying to garner support."
Oh, and before I forget: Didn't seem to understand a single thing about what I was saying in my earlier post. Very bad mudslinging here. (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100228.html#msg100228)
So, uhh, yeah. Claim I'm OMGUSing as much as you want. I am adamant in my stance that Russia is scum.
-------------------------------------------
TOUHOU HIJACKED, LOL. And Bel Air hijacked. Less lol. (AKA: Ninjas)
Not much to say. We (Bel Air and I) seem to agree a decent bit on why Russia's scummy. Good points about what flips will tell us, though.
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(http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/5228/666478.jpg)
Oh man, horrible logic alert. Not back properly yet, but I can't just let this go by.
GRafisduigsdfgidfujsdigsdjgf on any game theory that posits scum roleblocking themselves night 1. scum2g1c requires a lot of really gutsy scum play and the context here makes town2g1c far more plausible. Big pluses. Don't stick too much on this point, though.
Worse, far worse is trying to direct the bonus kill. Never ever ever direct night actions. The bonus killer, let's go ahead and just say it is !cake, should be using his own best judgement. His claim is enough to keep him at least anti-scum if not pro-town. You think if we don't direct him he'll get away with starting to kill town leaders? Do not give scum a chance to affect the kill, don't give them any warning or certainty. Terrible terrible terrible.
Not to forget that Rick is moving away from slinking away from his utter lack of a case on 2g1c. Attacking Commie for saying that you were only attacking 2g1c for the roleblock claim? Your vote was on her for next to nothing.
Hate hate hate on Duck Roll v2. Already bad enough. This sudden shift to Commie leading from two of the dodgiest of our numbers makes me utterly oppose a Commie lynch now.
Boxed Air's logic is bad as well. Lining up lynches and lynching for information rather than by scumminess.
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Geh.
@ShikiShana: I never said that he was town, I just disagree that today's the day to lynch Soviet. He has enough outright weirdness about him that makes him lower-priority imho than people who are being totally outright scummy without the strangeness to them. Namely XBox, and Breaker. Take of this what you will.
@Breaker: Eh. The self-defeatism is a null tell, main thing I take issue with is accusing Russia of active lurking: the issue is that your definition lacks one key aspect of active lurking, namely, y'know, the lurking part of it. Russia hasn't been flying under the radar, he's been flying directly in front of it with a giant neon sign attached to him with an arrow and the words "LOOK AT ME, I'M IN UR AIRSPACE, BEING DETECTED BY UR RADAR!!!". That being said, if you were so ardent about Russia, why the initial XBox lurkerslam? Rhetorical question, since you've already answered this, but it is telling that you are blasting the Soviets for behaviour similar to yours - if you're misguided town, why do you think Soviet is scum as opposed to similarly misguided town? In fact XBox 360 asks this exact question - probably the only good thing that XBox 360 has posted since he replaced-in for the old model XBox. As above, I am fairly dissatisfied by C-C-C-C's response, and as a result am unconvinced.
XBox 360 moves onto Demotivational Poster with yet another weak-ass case, 12 hours before deadline. Case made largely on claims of hypocricy (of which the 'Box is certainly privy to himself), and the statement that the vote was an L-2 vote, which is 100% null tell any way.
Demotivational himself starts making no sense whatsoever. He moves back onto Russia because...why? Why do you find issue with being swayed by 'Dog's case in the first place? Is it a bad case? Just going by their D2 behaviours, who is worse between Russia and C-C-C-C?
That being said, Soviet Russia is starting to make me uncomfortable himself, principally due to still not answering two questions:
A) Could you please summarize your actual case on Rick Astley, now that it is clear that your original reason for voting him was based off a misunderstanding of one of his posts, and
B) If it is just LAL, why is D2 the day for LAL? Early day pressure votes for lurkers are not bad. Actually pressing LAL over people that are actually scummy, such as XBox 360 and C-C-C-C, on the other hand, is bad. Thus, why continue the vote on Astley?
@Touhou Hijack: at the time of my post, yours was a ninjapost, and the subsequent posts by Zerg Rush and the motivational-sapping posters were after I had already posted. Whether L-4 can be called the point at which a train is "picking up" is debatable. Not sure what your implication even is here.
And...Bel Air. Bel Air, Bel Air, Bel Air. Your previous post where you vote C-C-C-C actually admits that you're too lazy to really explain anything as to a case, not even 1-2 lines as to what portions of the case that Advice Dog states that you agree with, and your principal given justification is that the Soviets seem to be trying harder today to actually provide content, and the fact that XBox and C-C-C-C are both on Soviet's wagon implies that they are more scummy somehow? Wagonalysis makes absolutely no sense at all if at least one of the people involved in the wagon has not yet flipped. Otherwise, it is completely and totally meaningless. But you manage to outdo yourself with your latest post. What. I mean seriously, just...what. So you're going for the informational lynch angle here? Over actually evaluating scumminess of both? Seriously? What.
Augh. Terrible posts all around.
Ninja Astley! Finally! Hm. I will admit that I forgot about the second NK we get from !Cake. This changes things up a bit.
Thanks to the extra NK, I am slightly more comfortable with a Soviet Russia lynch (as this lets C-C-C-C get NK'd using the extra nightkill). However, I still think C-C-C-C is the better lynchtarget of the two trains (I have more trust in the lynch than I do in a role which should not be highly trusted and could be misdirected/blocked by scum (ffs, we have confirmation from 2g1c that there exists a roleblocker out there, at minimum, possibly more things that could interfere with Cake's NK abilities, who knows) and could very well be third-party and not town), ##Unvote, Vote: C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!
Will be around up to and including deadline.
Incidentally, where did !Cake disappear off to? I mean seriously, what.
Ninja Dog!: Soviet's case on Astley WAS pretty much nonexistent, however, Astley's case on 2g1c was also pretty much nonexistent. Is "terrible case on suspicious person A by suspicious person B, who was attacked earlier by suspicious person A, using a terrible case" more of a scumtell on person A, or person B? i.e. While Astley is terrible for his own reasons, I fail to see why attacking Soviet for Soviet attacking him due to what is now no reason makes Astley scummier. imho, at least that much is a 100% null tell in my book, for both parties involved.
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What the hell? Nice mudslinging there, Dog (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1tj2zJ2Wvg). But if anybody had actually read what I said, I'm calling the roleblock WIFOM. I was explaining why I dismissed it, not theorizing.
Why shouldn't we? If we honestly believe two people to be scum, then why not? All it does is help us clear cases we believe to be bad, and move on to something fresh and new. Clearly all we're doing so far is sitting around and getting stagnant. Besides, you're the one who who was saying that we should 'deal with !cake if he's not kept anti-scum.' How do we know when he's being anti-scum and when he's not? If there are two deaths a night, both town, how do we know which one is Serial Killer and which one is the mafia?
Stop chainsaw defending Russia. I want to see RUSSIA defend itself, not you. Oh yeah, and more mudslinging is where you throw away most of what I was saying about Russia. Thanks for that.
Go away Dog. I don't want to deal with you right now.
Ninja'd by AYB, reading now.
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(http://i47.tinypic.com/2ponktd.jpg)
Come in, rehash old cases, leave again. I'm looking at you, Astley and Bel Air.
do you really think the collective scummy magnitude of his actions is larger than that of the Breaker's?
Exactly.
But, uhh, wow. Recent events have me tempted to vote for Astley. You see her roleblock claim as WIFOM despite it being this early, easy to disprove and helpful to Town should it be true? And ugh directing night actions. Enough's been said on that, but that is just terrible, and pretty much out-scums anything else today.
AYB, I'm having no problem following Dog's case. I've been mostly out of the game for today, and am annoyed that I, amongst others, have done nothing but follow his logic. It's presumably good logic, but I think everyone, myself included, needs to provide a little more original evidence.
Bel Air... It's bad, but I can honestly see lynching for information in this situation. I hate the idea normally, but when we're looking at two players who have been really damn scummy for a while? However, I don't see how Combo flipping Town tells us nothing, or how the WIFOM gives us any real information to work with. So, yeah, bad (and definitely scummy) post on the whole.
RickNinja'd: Nononononono. Directing NKs is bad and just tells scum what is being planned. We'll know which one was the NKer if they live through the night and can say "I shot that person" and, otherwise, they're one of the deaths. Simple as that. And, yeah, rest is in the rest of this post.
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Not really picking up on anything from AYB's post.
Ninja'd by Poster. I still believe it to be a good course of action, but whatever. Clearly it's a difference in playstyle and thought patterns. I'm just gonna drop it there. As for the WIFOM, yes, I'm saying it's entirely possible that scum decided to pull a gambit. Why the bloody hell not? The fact that it is an entirely feasible option is what has me calling it WIFOM. I DO NOT THINK IT WORTH CONSIDERING UNTIL THERE IS A REASON TO. It's like scum claiming cop from the getgo, (albeit the example is far gutsier) it leaves them with the perfect opportunity to say "this person is town" or "this person is scum" and for them to be right. It also allows them to clear another scum. It is entirely a possibility, and therefore, I'm not going to trust claims out of nowhere, without a good reason to. I'm thinking her town now, but more out of finding other people more suspicious. If she were to start acting extremely scummy, I would still want her lynched.
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Extremely low on time. Have to leave. Will try to be back before deadline, but no guarantees. Vote stays on Breaker.
I don't know what else to say to Demote at this point because I don't know why so many people don't seem to understand the reasoning behind Russia's Astley vote. Starting to wonder if maybe I'm the wrong one here. I vehemently disagree with the idea that Russia has more scummy points than Breaker but I guess that's Russia's argument to make now since I'm out of ideas.
Lynching for information is not good. No, not even in this situation. It's just an excuse to avoid having an actual opinion on which of Russia and Breaker is scummier and the only reason to avoid sharing such an opinion is to avoid any potential flip ramifications down the line which only scum are concerned with. Pick a damn side.
CATS, I was referring more to the three votes for Breaker right in a row before your post, from Milhouse, Bel Air and myself. Yes, my post may have been a ninja (I'm willing to grant that your post took more than an hour to write because time-based cases are dickholish), but you still made no effort to even acknowledge the ninjas.
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(http://i46.tinypic.com/a02yx.jpg)
Okay, the part on 2g1c, I can understand. Not saying I agree with it entirely, but it's fair enough.
I don't think directing night actions is anything to do with playstyle, though. How about we mass roleclaim while we're at it and just pick out the least believable claims? As you did, an extreme example, but demonstrates the point. We don't want to give scum information. We lynch for scum while limiting their information as much as possible.
Touhou Ninja says little of note, mostly explanations. Lynching for information... I can see the logic, but I've struggled to choose between the two for a good part of today, and you've said about "potential flip ramifications down the line" - stating an opinion ties you to those, though, and a Town player still has to worry about mislynches, especially if it's themself being lynched. Still, that won't apply now, considering how much this has been thrown around, so an opinion on who's actually scummier wouldn't be bad, regardless of how close it is.
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Replace 'picture' for 'topic' for trufax. (http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa27/aluminumium/Demotivators/darthbrit.jpg)
Have to leave now. Hopefully the latest content makes up slightly for the early day, and I will hopefully deliver more tomorrow.
Leaving my vote on Russia because aaarrgrhgh the scummy behaviour it burns. (Case has been rehashed several times, not again.)
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I made u a votecount but I eated it~
Votecount
Soviet Russia: (5) - Zerg Rush, Demotivator, XBOX, 2girls1cup, SHANA IS HOT, COMBO BREAKER, Demotivator, Bel Air, Rick Astley
Cake: (0) - Touhou Hijacker, Advice Dog, Zerg Rush, 2girls1cup
XBOX: (1) - Touhou Hijacker, COMBO BREAKER, Touhou Hijacker, All Your Base, 2girls1cup
2girls1cup: (1) - Touhou Hijacker, Rick Astley, Cake
SHANA IS HOT: (0) - Cake
Rick Astley: (1) - 2girls1cup Soviet Russia
Demotivator: (1) - SHANA IS HOT XBOX
COMBO BREAKER: (5) - Demotivator, Bel Air, Advice Dog, Milhouse, Touhou Hijacker, Zerg Rush, All Your Base
With 14 memes alive, it takes 8 votes to axe someone in the face.
Day 2 ends at 6PM PST/9PM EST, roughly 4.5 hours from this post.
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Welp, I figure I'm as good as dead anyway. Either today, tonight, or tomorrow. And I won't be around for deadline, so... May as well go out with style, to something that goes a little like this~ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ)
We're no strangers to mafia~
You know the rules, and so do I.
A full commitment's what I'm unable to give.
You wouldn't get this from any other meme.
I just want to tell you what I'm thinking.
Gotta make you... understand.
Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down.
Never gonna run around and desert you.
Never gonna make you cry, never gonna say "oh my!"
Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you.
We've known each other, for two days.
Your head's been aching, but you're too shy to say it.
Inside we both know what's been going on.
We know the game and we're, gonna play it.
Aaaaaand, if you ask me what I'm thinking,
Don't tell me you're too blind to see.
/me shuts off the music
1. Dog has been giving Russia a chainsaw defense the entire damn game. Even D1, though it was less of a chainsaw defense then.
2. Dog's posts have a lot of words, but not much actual content. (Gonna point you here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100357.html#msg100357) where it's really bad. Sure, he has that whole case on Breaker, but check out everything above that. Tell me you can't summarize that in one sentence or less)
3. Dog himself has mentioned the possibility of a town roleblocker. (And I'm gonna emphasize that with a BASTARD MODDING warning)
4. I... really don't see Russia defending itself much. Dog has been doing it instead.
5. Don't give me a damn cry of "but he's so helpful! and Townie!" We all know damn well that a good scum plays like a good town, and we ALL know it's entirely possible for someone that's 100% townie-seeming to be scum. (Hi Samurai Jack)
6. Russia has been terrible this game. Inexcusably so.
7. Dog did set himself up to lynch !cake later with subtle wording. Although now he's gone back on it and set his stance in stone by trying to condemn me.
8. Seriously, look over Dog and his interactions with Russia. Now look at his interactions with the other people who've been trains with Russia at the time, and the people who've been accusing Russia. Look it over.
Alright, night. Go Town. I hope you enjoy being led around by the nose.
/me turns the music back on
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The timing for this is oddly appropriate. As a disclaimer, I'm doing this because:
a) I'm probably not going to be able to play this game anymore due to rather idyosincratic schedules, and to be honest, playing Mafia leaves me crazy wired - which, at this point, is less than desirable for my personal life.
b) Watching a lynch you know to be right possibly slip past your hands due to mudslinging and OMG WE'RE BEING LED BY THE NOSE!!!111 just plain sucks, and I highly suspect this will get to go on forever as town gets blasted into tiny pieces.
c) Due to a and b, asking for a replacement is probably going to be very sketchy and difficult for the player replacing me, and the fact I fell behind is likely to get the other player bitten in the ass for not being able to catch up and contribute. So, may as well go with a bang and see if town follows this up.
I am a Cassandra - I.E. a full cop, and as soon as the mod sees I claimed, I'm getting modkilled - and I'm not allowed to post anything after I claim either. As I said, I thought something was up with Crappy Fighting Game Mechanic/Advice Dog/Yo Dawg, and decided to cop C-C-C-C-Combo Breaker. Result being that COMBO BREAKER IS SCUM: rolecop and roleblocker rolled into one for his roles.
This is why I went out of the left field coming up with the argument to back up Advice Dog. And I'm glad this spun discussion and a smooth train, but I strongly dislike the sudden doubt and how some people have taken up the mantle to try and put Advice Dog into the dog pound over it. This isn't a lynch for information: this is a hunt for -scum-, and Combo Breaker has left the evidence plain and simple for everyone to see.
Now, what I'd be particularly wary about right now are either the people downplaying Combo Breaker's scum behavior and/or trying to spin Advice Dog, as it stands, into a villainous position. This means yes, you, Rickroll, I'd very much like to see your head on the chopping block right after Combo Breaker, for pushing yourself even further into scum alert territory. The case you made against him is highly suspect to me - but maybe I'm biased, since I knew from the beginning of day 2 Combo Breaker was scum, period. This very reason also made me wary of how Combo Breaker tried to retain his hold on Soviet Russia and smear XBOX 360, although both of them are perfectly viable lynches in a vacuum.
As for Advice Dog's chainsaw defense... mmmmmmmm. I can only think that, assuming Dog is town (which I -do- - sacrificing a scum this strongly honestly comes off as a really gutsy scum maneuver, especially when they're down one already and things may just get worse, particularly if Combo Breaker goes down today), the defense comes as trying to steer away the lynch from the wrong people. Now, this obviously doesn't really free Soviet Russia at all - he could be still scum, or he could be third party. But, when thinking of Combo Breaker's insistence on getting Soviet Russia killed by town, it makes sense - struggle of town vs. scum. And due to Rick Astley currently following a not entirely dissimilar lead, only using Soviet Russia to try and smear Advice Dog, who, like it or not, has been one of our most proficient posters with active content -and- who managed to hit scum... yeah. Looking at you.
Not sure I'm too keen on Slingshot Girls (2Girls1Cup) dismissing the case and focusing on people who annoy her rather than people who show straight scumvibes. OMGUS behavior is bad for town, and I do excuse the sickness playing into it. However, it does look suspicious, particularly when the day 1 performance was a bit on the poor side anyway.
So, this is it. There you have my piece. Good day and I sure hope you people lynch actual scum today.
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In Soviet Russia, roleclaims post you!
Um.
The sheer level of "what" from Astley here, it ees just what. People say case nonexistent, I say case on Astley self evident! Lurk all day, do nothing productive, sling mud at me for no good reason, sling mud at roleclaims for no good reason, sling mud at Dog for agree with me and disagree with you, then suddenly geev up on life and post extra inflammatory stuff, say you are going to die, but not even bother to roleclaim self? Ees just terrible!
"Russia terrible this game, inexcusably so." How? What? How are loyal soviets supposed to defend this? Soviets make one boo boo at start of game, try to get game out of jokevote phase with crazy proposal, but fail to explain and followup adequately. This explained and apologized for already. Beyond that? Every lazy person piling on Soviets for multitude of flimsy reasons just because look like easy target. Say things like Astley did there. Or be like Combo Breaker, who vote me for "not answering questions and making baseless attacks," but as it turns out, Combo Breaker just not read posts and not notice answers to questions and clear base for attacks. Whoops, say Combo Breaker... but he leave vote on Soviets anyway!
And now Astley attack Dog for defending motherland, with no case on motherland to begin with! Soviets very frustrated with this. Feel like half of players not bothering to read game, just thinking "well everyone voting Soviets so must be scummy, right?" and then find own flimsy reason to pile on and call day. Bel Air and Demotivator doing it too now! Case not been rehashed! What IS case? Tell me! Give actual points! Loyal comrades not able to defend from case that not exist!
Anyhow, soviets agree that Combo Breaker train form easily. Veeery wary of thees. Much prefer to lynch Astley or Xbox or Meelhouse. Ees much better alternative to own lynch, though, so in interests of national self defense...
##Unvote: Astley
##Vote: Breaker of Combo
Ninja by Meelhouse!
Whoooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
Meelhouse claim kind of out of nowhere, but workers of motherland not going to complain! Clearly day to send Combo Breaker to Siberia, queek!
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STOP POSTING, THE DAY IS OVER!
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Milhouse Is Not A Meme, Town Cassandra, has been modkilled for breaking restrictions of his role. He was warned in his initial PM that this would be a day ending modkill as well.
It is now Night 2, please send in your night actions.
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(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/8656/654826.jpg)
Knew the modkill was going to end the day. Too slow, not that it would have mattered. I've used the above picture before, but it's oddly appropriate again given Milhouse's actions.
At least this damn well gets -2C dealt with. Guaranteed scum outside of really bastard modding, and I will be massively annoyed if he's still around come night 3.
Duck Roll v2 looks all the worse. The smooth lynch to -2C felt too smooth, but the push away from him was really bad. Suspect massively that he's scum and Commie's town. Boxed Air is also suspect for the similar move, complicated by having moved to -2C to begin with.
Need I respond in full to Duck Roll's rabid frothing at me? I can if people want, but it's all pretty bad. I particularly like how he's calling me low content and his example is the one goddamn section I specifically list as clogging up space that I didn't even want to post if not for CATS specifically asking me.
Getting this post out relatively quickly before settling into further analysis.
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(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2797/667417.jpg)
Strength of feeling on -2C + people I feel suspicious leading lynch away from -2C to Commie => strong feelings of townCommie. Pretty simple, and backed up now that my play on -2C is vindicated. I think I caught scum napping in -2C, and now Milhouse has caught scum in an unintended trap, by which I mean the sheer strength of Rick trying to redirect attention on the basis of town -2C (or what, changing your opinion to a Dogscum, Commiescum and -2Cscum team? Because what) rather than absolutely pinning -2C down, as much as that certainty helps.
Actually, Duck Roll's sudden list on me gets under my skin enough that I'll go through it now.
1. Uh no. Took well into day two before I felt I'd decoded him well enough that supporting him didn't feel massively uncomfortable. Unless you want to go back to the jester worries.
2. Uh no. Resent the claim I've been low content by any definition, and have already covered the bracketed section already.
3. Would defend this on its own terms if not for Milhouse already revealing that there is indeed a scum roleblocker. Combined roleblock/rolecop is not being used on fellow scum, and is going to be used. This pretty much outright clears 2g1c for me.
4. Not a point against me!
5. Yes? Of course it's possible for scum to play super active. That possibility by itself is not a point against me, or anyone else.
6. Not a point against me!
7. Could do with this being pointed out. Not really sure what it means. After the vig claim? Sure, it doesn't clear !cake outright and there are potential set ups where he could end up lynched. Really don't see it happening, though.
8. I don't think the Commie's scum. Even less and less after the push to get him lynched in -2C's place. I'm not greatly surprised if it's the case that scum are piling on him. And it certainly hasn't applied to everyone who's been on the Commie.
Oh, and the Hijack has been even more in support of the Commie than I have, from much earlier. How does that figure into your plan?
Cutting here to swap computers (to prepare the silly bonus content, of all things), but let me separate and say this clearly (mentioned above but bears singling out):
I very strongly believe that 2g1c is basically cleared. She's the only one to have claimed to have been roleblocked in a rolemadness game, and Milhouse has just uncovered a scum roleblocking power that will definitely have been used on town, if not for its intrinsic value in roleblocking then for the bonus gained in rolecopping. There's no way scum didn't use that last night, and there's no way that wasn't used on town. Don't um and ah over game theory unless you're going to try and claim that scum expected there to be a full cop in the game who would scan the relevant person night 1 and then reveal the information.
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(http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/9990/667615.jpg)
Okay, the momentum of the day's end has left me trying to move too quickly here. I need to stop a bit to calm down and think through things properly.
Notably, I need to pull back on that solid endorsement of 2g1c. Hadn't thought through the possibilities of weird roles like combined roleblock/rolecop. In this case, if the blocker/copper hits vanilla, scum knows one of their own can safely claim to be roleblocked. This is a very reasonable thing for scum to pull. I'm still convinced the context leads to town2g1c, and who knows if there even are vanilla roles in the game (and if there are, if a rolecop would know that from scanning the name of the role). BUT it's a possibility I can't throw out, so no, 2g1c not cleared.
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(http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/3539/667587.jpg)
My diversion for this evening is a minor meme from back in 2007 that I enjoyed a lot at the time and find deliciously appropriate given this ability of mine to speak during night phases. It concerns the following picture:
(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/6355/ecstasy.jpg)
The picture speaks for itself: some kid's growing idea of what it means to be cool. 4chan did as 4chan does and took this dream and shat all over it, in place of society normally too polite to laugh at a crap drawing. On top of the QUALITY artwork (complete with outrageous hair style), lots of laughs were also had at the budding emo nature in it, and all of the childish ideas of what makes someone cool, in particular 'staying up all night'.
It was a good laugh in and of itself, but as popular as it was as the poster child for what was seen as hilariously wrong with any number of things, this led to a lot of fan art (either deliberately far better or far worse than the original) and the usual meme workout: shoving his face in anywhere and everywhere, including all of the other memes back then.
The whole experience was neatly summed up in a montage video. It is/was available on youtube, but has had the audio stripped from it. I've restored the pieces, and offer it to you through the medium of Rapidshare, weighing in at 13 megs: enjoy (http://rapidshare.com/files/360843184/Ecstasy_AKA_Darks.mkv).
Spot the memes throughout, though I think Hijack is the only one of our number to feature in it. My own pick of the random references is seeing even Sonic Gokuverine getting in on the action at 0:56.
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(http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/7869/670480p.jpg)
Back to the serious stuff, now that I've had time to cool down and ponder. I've been wondering if it was in town's best interests for Milhouse to use up one of our mislynches like that, but the information is strong, and what's done is done regardless.
-2C absolutely must go. More like −273.15C, amirite.
Duck Roll v2 I still have pegged as second place, but I'm not so sure as I was. The outburst itself is rabid (and practically a /ragequit, which is just plain rude, but hey), but I think is worse for being a smokescreen to distract from the horrible feeling from himself and Boxed Air switching the lynch leader away from -2C back to the Commie, and also to distract away from the case I was already building on him.
His entire case on 2g1c is the one paragraph here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100225.html#msg100225), which is to say for a minor, defunct and incorrect point regarding !cake. This is OMGUS, and not even properly veiled. It's also interesting that this is the same post that he turns on Commie, having actually supported (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99973.html#msg99973) him quite strongly come the end of day one. The difference? Commie had voted for him in the meantime.
Which makes it all the funnier that he then attacked me as I pulled out stronger against him. Part of his claim was indirect serial OMGUS on behalf of Commie. Well gee, guess I can't compete with your direct serial OMGUS.
I'm willing to write off the bad game theory (let's ignore the roleblocking crap, but directing night actions, especially a bonus kill, is terrible) as neutral, and it's after this point that I start to falter. Pushing on to Commie one thing, but the night action he called was for the vig to kill the other train leader, which would see -2C and Commie dead one way or another (unless there was also a plan to push XBox 360 forward). Mitigating losses? But then I also don't know what he plans to do if Commie flips town, and if instead Duck Roll v2, -2C and Commie are all scum together (as a trap set up to try and get me, and maybe then Hijack lynched as well?) then calling for the vig to take out another member of the team before the next day starts seems horribly wrong. It's not like he'd even get credit for it.
So yeah, while I'm sure that his bluster is harmful to town, I'm not sure I see scum behind it. Not even flustered scum, which is how it initially struck me. I'm expecting a change in attitude regardless now that -2C has indeed turned out to be scum.
Then again, I refalter back to him being scummy, because he's had absolutely nothing to say about -2C or even XBox, despite them being the other big dishes of the day. No doubt giving -2C a chainsaw defence because I'm trying to get him lynched over Commie, amirite.
After that, eyes are drawn to Boxed Air and Poster, for the rather bigger shift from -2C to Commie. Not hard to theorise a bussing attempt turned back to risk the mislynch instead. Poster is in particularly bad position here, for getting on the train late, and then first back off, as part of this bigger mess of him bending in the wind from anything and everything. Boxed Air is bad in a different way: on earlier, but the logic for changing to Commie here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100456.html#msg100456) is horrendous - lynching for information and the supposed information is wrong anyway. I don't, for instance, see how Commie flipping town would make -2C's actions look any worse in any way, and disagree that -2C flipping scum tells us nothing about Commie - it's scum setting up this huge obviously scummy delayed vote... onto a partner? You mean, bussing without getting in to take any of the cred?
Xbox 360 is still a mess, but suddenly of less immediate concern. I've managed to lose track of CATS again as well, which is vaguely concerning but his late vote for -2C after the swing back towards Commie is enough to abate that for now at least. After -2C is dealt with (everyone should definitely get all of their thoughts in before the lynch, but -2C has to be dead by the end of the day), I'm definitely looking to find scum in the Duck Roll v2, Boxed Air and the Poster.
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(http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/7281/671185.jpg)
As dawn has yet to break, I guess I can take a look at -2C's actions and opinions, and what others have had to say about him. Just looking for connections, no point rehashing the points that make him scummy.
His vote for Commie (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99843.html#msg99843) comes at an awkward point: it ties o9k and Commie at seven votes apiece. I'd very much like to use this as further support of Commie's innocence, but I'll be cautious. It just seems so needlessly risky (if scumCommie), especially when it's still quite some time afterwards before the winds really start blowing in o9k's direction. There's so much random poking, prodding and dangling questions with the Commie, as well. Still can't see them as buddies.
...which led me to this (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99889.html#msg99889) post from the Poster. He does then jump on o9k, but at this point of time his vote is on Dawg, not Commie. lolwut. More on this later, because this scanning is turning up all sorts on Poster.
-2C then pulls out some hate on !cake here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99864.html#msg99864), alongside o9k, Dawg and Commie as his top suspects, later (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99922.html#msg99922) adding Duck Roll v2 and 2g1c. Two confirmed townies, the vig claim and Commie, huh. No, this particular point does not defend Commie by extension.
The cheerleading on the New Hotness case at the start of day two reads well for New Hotness. The whole slow vote from XBox to Commie doesn't say anything to me about XBox 360, given that it was a vote that was always intended to move. Smallest of positive tells from the post he removed the vote in (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100312.html#msg100312), being as it leaves room for him to return if need be.
Doesn't really support anyone at any point, except as part of covering his own position.
After he realises he's caught, WIFOM becomes harder to deal with. Especially the end section here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100415.html#msg100415) where he talks about what should happen if he's lynched. The list weirds me out because it contains CATS (despite not voting for him), and doesn't contain Poster, despite falling very snugly into the category. Pain pain pain.
Off again. Reverse connections to follow if there's a chance later. Only one I've seen thus far without actively is Poster very much sitting on -2C's side on the spat with Dawg. Really getting the impression that he wasn't the intended NK and that scum were going to set him up as a mislynch along with Commie. Poster continuing to slide down ever further as time passes.
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Quick message: I've just been offered to receive a copy of Killer Instinct.
I'm going to accept.
I haven't been told I'm dead yet, so if I do die there's at least good odds of it being related to that, which would strongly imply SK rather than mafia. Depends on whether the mafia have already submitted their kill or not.
Kind of expect it not to be the killing power, though watch me be wrong.
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Another morning, another dead meme. Or two, as the case may be.
As the remaining memes gathered, the mass of zerglings with thier endless kekekekekekekekeing were nowhere to be found. A quick search however revealed the entire lot of them at the bottom of a cliff. Dressed in lemming suits. Everyone decided it was really best not to ask.
Also, the freindly neighborhood Advice Dog was absent. Though no matter how much anyone looked, they just couldn't find him. Not even one last helpful poster.
Zerg Rush, Town Skindancer, has failed at bungee jumping!
Advice Dog, Town Insomniac, has mysteriously vanished!
It is now the beginning of day 3. With 11 memes remaining, it takes 6 to axe someone in the face.
As of 1PM PST/4PM EST(roughly 10 minutes ago), day 3 has 72 hours remaining!
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(Wrote this up during the night. I have to leave, so I don't have time to do re-reading right now based on the NKs, but I don't think they change much of anything off the top of my head.)
(http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/6576/th08reimu02.png)
Man, I wish it didn't always fall to me to clean up everyone else's messes.
##Fantasy Seal Vote: C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER
Begone from Gensokyo, foul youkai!
Now then. Other suspects, in approximate order of scumminess:
Bel Air - Absolutely terrible. Notable amounts of lurking, and while he doesn't say absolutely nothing when he posts like lolcat did, he doesn't say a whole lot either. More importantly, his opinions on Box and Breaker (and vote on Breaker) were "yeah what other people said" and that same post is otherwise devoid of meaningful stances. This smells terribly of an early bussing attempt - hop on a buddy while Russia is still comfortably in the vote lead - designed to get credit should Breaker eventually get lynched a couple of days later, a plan which is then jettisoned after the Breaker train picks up more speed and Demote keeps the easy Russia target relevant while pointing out that, despite Breaker now leading the votes, the two trains are somewhat close. Suddenly "I'm no longer sure on the Russian (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100390.html#msg100390)" becomes "okay I think the Russian's bad again (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100456.html#msg100456)" and Bel Air brings the trains to a tie on the grounds that a Russia lynch is more informative. I can almost literally hear the youkai panic in that switch.
Rick Astley - Case has already been made by Advice Dog and others. I don't really have much of anything to add here, though I will point out that his Bonus NK direction suggestion (bad enough already) was toward "whichever of our trains isn't lynched today", which is several additional levels of wrong for reasons related to why "if x is town lynch y" is bad (unless he was trying to suggest that both Breaker AND Russia are scum, but that idea is laughable). I have him below Bel Air, however, because the song and dance at the end of the day really leaves me scratching my head. I wonder if Advice Dog might be overblowing this a little bit because he feels slighted.
Demotivational Poster - Similar feelings of "failed bus panic" as what I see in Bel Air, but a little less so, mostly because there were no additional Breaker votes between his move to Breaker and his move back to Russia. Bel Air's flip-flop seems 100% fabricated, while Demote's has some pangs of potential sincerity. I still don't like the obvious gloss of 360's first posts, though. Was originaly below Xbox but Advice Dog's connection observations have bumped him up a little bit.
Xbox - Case has already been made by Yugi and others. Still a small bit of doubt about the possibility of misguided human, but in looking back it came from a post that's more game theory than actual opinion (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100378.html#msg100378), which leaves open the possibility of Xbox being a lesser (newbie) youkai. The vote for Demote could also be easily chalked up to a lesser youkai unwilling to bus an elder in the lead, even without the poor reasoning (though that certainly doesn't help him). I don't see Breaker's delayed switch starting on Box as a notable indication of Box being youkai, but I also don't see it as an indication of Box being human either.
Shana also now pings my miko intuition a little bit with her "I agree that Breaker looks bad but I wish people would start paying attention to Russia again" post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100412.html#msg100412), but she's not on the same level as the above four, as I'd been getting pretty good vibes from her on the whole before that.
Lynching for information... I can see the logic, but I've struggled to choose between the two for a good part of today, and you've said about "potential flip ramifications down the line" - stating an opinion ties you to those, though, and a Town player still has to worry about mislynches, especially if it's themself being lynched.
Being held responsible for the opinions you state is exactly the reason you state them. If we didn't hold anyone to their opinions then the entire foundation for youkai hunting would crumble.
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##Vote: Combo Breaker
Glorious socialist republic was roleblocked last night!
Да, that about it for now. Read post before end of day to see Soviet thoughts, not much change with confirmations. Imperialist islander Japanese bullet game hijack make very good case on Bel Air as well - Soviet mind probably muddled on issue due to annoyance with many past votes on self.
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Let's not be too hasty in voting for C-C-C-Combo Breaker here guys. Yes, he's almost certainly scum. But quick hammering is not a good thing. (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4564.msg96948.html#msg96948)
Regardless, currently looking at Demotivational. His little shuffle between the Comrad and -2C yesterday was, interesting. Not to mention, it'll be interesting to see what 2g1c have to say, as well as !Cake.
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Actually, brotherhood of workers should add one thing. Soviet night action was attempted to be taken targeting Combo Breaker, but failed (probably due to roleblock from комбо выключатель himself?!) and so nothing has changed in status of Soviet cow and fur products. Ees reason to claim this, Да, at least one other living player will know what I am talking about, and scum may already know too if speculation on combined rolecop/roleblock correct.
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I'm looking at you, Cake. (http://i43.tinypic.com/2lxbi4j.jpg)
No, seriously. NKs don't change stuff, no, but nothing to say about Combo being guaranteed scum?
To begin with, it mostly clears Russia. That'd be a hell of a gambit for them to pull and, while it's possible, it's not gonna happen when there are far more viable targets. (But I hope you know that you've had me hitting my head on walls repeatedly. argh.)
Secondly, it practically confirms 2g1c to me, since we know there's a roleblocker in play in Combo. (Note that the same doesn't apply to Russia, for what I'd hope are obvious reasons.) I don't follow Advice Dog's logic of "They could have hit Vanilla" in what is role madness - there are some things they could have hit, but I'm willing to take the same approach to 2g1c as I am to Russia now and say that they're Town until others are borderline-confirmed.
That narrows us down to the following: AYB, Bel Air, Xbox, Shikiana, Astley, Cake and Touhou. Recap tiem~
Astley: No idea why he thought he was going to die, of all players, or why he felt like providing a bad case on Advice Dog (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100492.html#msg100492) before the day ended. Especially odd with Dog's flip, and uses the "So town, he's scum!" argument. Tried directing night actions, weak arguments and... what. Wow. Okay, guys. Go to Rick Astley's latest posts. Ctrl+F, and try all of "Combo", "C-" and "Breaker". The results are fun - he is mentioned in the case on Advice Dog and today's post ONLY. Flying straight to the top of the list here.
Bel Air: This post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100390.html#msg100390) sucks. He doesn't see the case on Astley nor Astley's case on 2g1c, but doesn't say why for either. Says Russia looks better, only to flip back when Combo is in a bind. And... wow, wait, that's it for D2? Um. Okay then.
Xbox: Makes way too many stupid mistakes. Not necessarily scummy, but definitely doesn't look good. Weak cases, mostly based on looking for the most (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100378.html#msg100378) outlandish possibility (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100286.html#msg100286) (the "Scum roleblock themselves!" bad WIFOM and "They're very Townie, this makes them suspicious!") or "They've changed too much!" (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100320.html#msg100320), which is kinda odd.
Cake: Probably 3rd-party. Wouldn't mind lynching Cake tomorrow, though, considering Advice Dog was probably her victim, judging by the nature of the kill. Care to explain that one, if you have some reason for it?
AYB: I've been curiously suspicious of him for most of the game, but can't place why. His last post of the day, though? Epic. If all of his content was that good, he'd easily be the most confirmed player to me. Looking back, his posts are actually not bad at all, and I just wish he'd provide a little more often. Except for the WIFOM (@Zerg) (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100328.html#msg100328)
Shikiana: AYB the 2nd. Some of it (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100412.html#msg100412) is really good (the points on AYB here stand out as being well-reasoned), but such low profile. I've forgotten Shikiana's here so many times, and some of the posts (see previous link, first paragraph) seem to be padded out way too much. Overall town read, though, for now, and moreso than AYB.
Touhou: Touhou is Touhou is Touhou and I'm not even gonna dwell on this one. Probably the most Townie unconfirmed player alive.
In order from scum->town. Xbox would be second if not for the pure lurking of Bel Air, methinks - worse content, but active lurking is </3. That said, actively avoiding commenting on a lynch train that is now proven scum? ahahaha.
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##Vote: Combo Breaker . Didn't see the case yesterday, but the Milhouse thing is as close to cast-iron as it gets.
Xbox-sized bad timing from Rick, but while he's undeniably bad I'm not sure it's actually scummy - after all, I've made much the same arguments myself. (The Dog flipping town actually pushes him more in the direction of bad town in my book - such a hysterical rant was never going to cause a substantial shift in town opinion, wheras it might have made Astley look better had Dog later emerged as scum). Does indeed sound like a ragequit, and a hugely premature one at that; so much for never giving us up.
I really don't think the scum could afford to waste a combined rolecop/roleblocker, but the strategy Dog outlined applies equally well last night (and it's even outlined right there if they couldn't think of it themselves). In particular, I can see C-C-C-C targeting the Dog, then SK killing the Dog (should've held out for Mortal Kombat), clearing the way for a scum roleclaim. But on the whole this still makes Soviet (and by the same token 2g1c) look substantially better than they were.
Speaking of the girls, their vote on me comes at an iffy time (and acknowledging the dodginess of their vote record does nothing to excuse it), particularly since I don't think I was saying anything qualitatively different from what I'd said before - the game-theoretic case for scum roleblocking scum on D1 is no stranger than that for scum fakeclaiming. Just to be absolutely clear, of course using a combination roleblocker/rolecop on one of their own makes no sense at all - but we didn't know that was the power back during the posts I'm talking about. Promised post on me failing to materialise means absolutely nothing given the suddenness with which the day ended. Will wait to hear more.
So for now, putting C-C-C-C aside, Demotivator is who I'd be happiest going after. I go after him for shifting his vote around, and his response is to... shift it again? Comments on many things, but takes few solid positions - pretty wishy-washy on lynching for information. Muses on shifting vote again, and "pretty much out-scums anything else today." is hyperbole of the highest calibre. Telling people off for laziness and explanation of why directing night actions is bad are correct but empty.
Curious why the dog knew the modkill would end the day (I didn't, and spent a couple of minutes doing increasingly paranoid theorising about where the extra vote came from). But it doesn't really matter. Oh, and obviously Cake has some explaining to do.
Triple ninja, serves me right for the namesake-sized post. Oh well, if I analyse long enough I can spend forever writing responses.
Rick's back, and with surprisingly little to say. No comment on the dog actually flipping town? Yes, quick hammers are bad (though frankly, I suspect things will be so skewed today that I personally will learn very little). But we should all know that, and I'm happier with my vote on C-C-C-C than not, just because it leaves fewer ways for everything to go utterly wrong.
In soviet russia, cow tips you!
And finally the man himself. Scum hitting vanilla (or more correctly hitting someone with no night action) requires a bit of luck, yes, but they didn't have to decide whether to claim until afterwards, so it's not at all ridiculous as a scum ploy if they got the opportunity. Which means that the roleclaim makes 2g1c less likely to be scum, but by no means confirmed. Shiki is low-content, but wasn't by any means forgettable , to me at least (maybe it's the bright pink avatar). Will look at AyB later, posting this now before I get cut again.
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(http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/853/eintarocb.jpg)
(http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/4504/bunnyy.jpg)
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(http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/5178/positive7.jpg)
(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/2120/3821821857fe0d6af041cb.jpg)
(http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/2029/jesusaurus1.jpg)
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(http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/6967/catbirdcb.jpg)
(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/5615/goyouvi.gif)
(http://img707.imageshack.us/i/hax46336.jpg/)
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HAMMER STOP TALKING!
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(http://www.rumproast.com/images/uploads/duct-tape.jpg)
I figured this would be appropriate, and have little to add from Xbox's post, except for:
In particular, I can see C-C-C-C targeting the Dog, then SK killing the Dog (should've held out for Mortal Kombat), clearing the way for a scum roleclaim.
Role speculation? When we've had someone else claim to be roleblocked? I can't help thinking I'm misunderstanding what you're saying here.
Otherwise, the points in response to my post are either pointless (2g1c claim - from what I can tell, we're agreed on the "likely town, still option of scum") or opinion (shikiana).
2x Ninja: That is going to get really annoying really fast, isn't it?
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Time out for a second. That wasn't supposed to happen.
Okay, time to clarify. My role is Town Landshark - at night I can offer a player something inconspicous and non-game related. If they accept, they die; if not, nothing happens.
Night 1, I offered lolcats a cheezburger. He accepted it, clearly, and died.
Last night, I offered Combo Breaker a copy of Killer Instinct. The intention was to entice them with something that went along with their character to sound like some sort of bastard-mod hidden power.
Clearly, since it got redirected to Advice Dog, scum has something akin to a bus driver on top of their roleblocker/cop. Obviously now the effects of my role are painfully public, so there's no harm being open about it. Obviously it's of no use now it's public, so no more kills for me I guess.
Anyway, given yesterday it shouldn't be hard to decide who to vote today.
##Vote: C-C-C-C-Combo Breaker
That's L-2, so we should stop now. Combo's outburst above looks more like an excuse to end conversation.
As for other cases to cover in later days, taking a reread of some of the big names today.
Bel-Air's jump from 'Xbox and Combo are bad, I don't know what I feel about Soviet (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100390.html#msg100390)' to 'Wait, actually Soviet really IS bad' (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100456.html#msg100456) coincides a little too closely with the Combo wagon actually picking up speed and Soviet falling behind, as Hijack put it. Add a distinct lack of original opinion and we have a pretty good lead here.
Rick Astley is...well. I still don't see the point about his D1 actions, but his evening up the Soviet/Combo wagons and this defeatist post which screams AtE and attacks a now-confirmed Town (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100492.html#msg100492) are definitely worth looking at.
Xbox...hm. While he pushed the 2g1c point pretty far, he jumped off the Soviet wagon very late on. Would scum risk that due to the threat of Combo getting lynched? Don't think it's worth it.
Those are the cases that come to mind right now. I don't have enough of a feel on anyone else to constitute a real case: Touhou I don't see much fault with, and the Demotivation/AYB/Shiki trio don't really register in my head. 2g1c is probably just about confirmed since roleblocking one of your own players D1 is pointless.
I'm wondering another thing - does this mean scum knows the roles of Soviet and 2g1c?
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Votecount
COMBO BREAKER (5): Touhou, Russia, XBOX, O R'LYEH, Cake
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
COMBO BREAKER is at L-1!
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Gah wait
##Unvote: Combo
I didn't see a vote in there from Combo.
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Irrelevant, but no use otherwise. (http://i50.tinypic.com/ek4908.jpg)
Would assume they know both, yeah. Have been working under that assumption, anyways.
fuckfuckfuckfuck okay someone remove a vote fast.
Ninja: Phew. No, that's a mod vote. He's broken rules, clearly, and gained a mod vote for it. Whether it's post restrictions or for the fake hammer post, I'm not sure, but not relevant now.
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I'm just going to go ahead and claim to make explaining my actions a bit easier, I'm an unconfirmed mason with Astley, this is why I defended him yesterday among other things. I'm willing to consider him town for now due to the nature of how we became masons, since he is a writer and I was the only paparazzi he could recruit, and he managed to get me on N1.
Lazy play yesterday was basically me finding out "Oh look, I'm actually a mason, cool," Since I wasn't able to actually read or write anything until the day was half over, I pretty much just resigned myself to being lazy for the day after having to read through all the text the catch up on everything.
I'll be honest, I did think Combo was worse then Russia at first, but then discussing things in mason chat had me second guessing myself, to the point where I came up with my not so astounding flip logic. Astley thought that Russia was worse, and I decided I would go along with it for the time being since I figured whichever one didn't get lynched on that day would most likely end up on the block for day 3.
Overly annoyed at Milhouse claim to end the day, but what are we going to do about that.
Altey will be able to confirm once he gets back from whatever he's doing, mostly just posting this to get that out there, will actually have something about new opinions later.
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So, the two players who are going under suspicion at this point...suddenly claim masons?
This is...wow. I will note that after a little Ctrl+F that Astley and Bel-Air have never so much as mentioned each other, but if you're an unconfirmed mason would you be so openly trusting? Really not buying the claim.
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EBWOP:
I'm just going to go ahead and claim to make explaining my actions a bit easier, I'm an unconfirmed mason with Astley, this is why I defended him yesterday among other things. I'm willing to consider him town for now due to the nature of how we became masons, since he is a writer and I was the only paparazzi he could recruit, and he managed to get me on N1.
Uh...what about SHAMEIMARU Aya? And what does writing have to do with paparazzi? And since when did the Fresh Prince have any sort of job along those lines? (I haven't watched the show in years, so if this is me missing out on flavour someone call me out on it.)
Colour me doubly unconvinced now.
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(http://i43.tinypic.com/351h6r9.jpg)
I'm willing to believe you guys have BTSC. I'm not willing to believe you're both town - whether one of you is or not, I'm not sure, but I'm pretty much certain that Astley's scum, at least.
I'm also not sure how the nature of how you became masons has any impact on the alignment, especially with bastard modding.
...Actually, that's a fair point in Cake Ninja. How would you know you're the only Paparazzi?
(I'm willing to ignore the flavour reasons, though, since I don't think roles really have much to do with the memes.)
(Actually, that looks like a misunderstanding somewhere. I'm reading Writer/Paparazzi as roles, and it looks like Cake isn't? Confirmation from both of you on that, please.)
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Reverse the logic. Odds of me getting this right were low, but worked. (http://i46.tinypic.com/igm343.jpg)
So, I can't believe I ignored this until now. I used my N2 action. I thought nothing of it, having picked what I thought was the wrong target. And now, if we're to believe Cake's claim, I know who the bus driver is. Touhou, care to explain?
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I know I'm the only one since Gate pretty much told me outright that I was the only one that can be recruited once I was, I assume in Astleys Role PM that it probably says something similar along those lines.
One thing I did forget to clarify though, is that I had no knowledge of being a paparazzi/mason until after I was recruited, I was pretty much under the impression that I was stuck with essentially Vanilla Town when the game started, and I made a rather lame attempt to breadcrumb that here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99794.html#msg99794) where I talked about useless roles in light of Russia's no lynch plan.
I did mention Astley Day 2, so not sure what Cake is saying there, if I didn't mention him day 1, it's because I didn't know. And yes, Writer/Paparazzi are referring to the roles.
Ninja, so Touhou made an action on the cake last night? This will be interesting.
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(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/8788/939063persona413supercb.jpg)
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Wow, can't believe I fell for that. Read it as suicide by deliberately breaking post restrictions three times. Very nearly went to bed.
Role speculation? When we've had someone else claim to be roleblocked? I can't help thinking I'm misunderstanding what you're saying here.
Assume that C-C-C-C is a combination roleblocker/rolecop, as we've heard from Milhouse. Assume this ability was targeted at Advice Dog tonight, who was then serialkilled (or redirected-vigilante, as is now being claimed; doesn't change the reasoning). Assume (just for the sake of the argument) commie was scum. Having seen this happen (and knowing that C-C-C-C used the roleblocker/rolecop on advice dog), commie could safely claim to have been roleblocked.
Since I said I'd comment on AyB, I will, but I've nothing fresh to say; there's just too little content to get anything from (which of course is itself bad).
And multiple ninjas. Posting anyway.
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(http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/3600/bagkittycb.png)
(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/987/airforce1cb.png)
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In Soviet Russia, masons claim you!
So vat I am curious about ees this - how does Astley magically pick one single correct recruitable person in all of game? Seems... improbable, unless there were breadcrumbs or hints perhaps?
And what is this about Touhou and bus driving?
##Unvote: Combo Breaker
Worried about extra votes ending day early, I weesh to see what is going on here.
XBox: that is reason I claim other mysterious stuff. Can semi-prove role related things regarding glorious Soviets as well. But that on backseat for now, what is Demotivational and Touhou stuff?
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So vat I am curious about ees this - how does Astley magically pick one single correct recruitable person in all of game? Seems... improbable, unless there were breadcrumbs or hints perhaps?
This is exactly what I was about to bring up. He finds the right guy on Night 1, when there were still 15 other players to choose from? We need clarification from Astley himself.
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(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/3129/godrevoke.jpg)
(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/2397/godwantstokillyou.jpg)
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(http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/4388/funnymap.png)
(http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/3206/gb02preview.gif)
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More irrelevant demotivators! (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_odt1oq-tsdk/SxLO8OxFO6I/AAAAAAAAAKE/OMxYwVY1fJQ/S600/demotivators_beauty.bmp)
I'm not full-claiming for numerous reasons, but my Night 2 action can confirm that Touhou targeted Cake. Cake, who was pretty much certainly our vigilante/SK, with Killer Instinct, a Combo-related item being given to Advice Dog and killing him.
The whole story fits pretty damn well, I have to say.
I'm wondering who is confirming these other claims of yours, Soviet. There's only one person who's not yet spoken who I'd be willing to take the word of at the moment, so I'm going to assume whoever can confirm is keeping quiet about it until it's relevant.
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(http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/1857/squirrelcb.jpg)
(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/9421/youredoingitwrongjc6.jpg)
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(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/817/mastern.jpg)
(http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/2517/fluffyg.jpg)
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(http://img532.imageshack.us/img532/4096/captainobviousn.jpg)
(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/2527/poorkittycb.png)
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(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)
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In Soviet Russia, scum confirm town roleclaims! Or not.
Possible problem, comrade, is that person who can confirm my rolestuffs not necessarily town. In light of this and thinking further I'll go ahead and claim.
Someone in thees game, on day 1, started with a power: Leather Jacket Distributor. Ees essentially role swap, Jacket Distributor target person at night and permanently trade role powers with them. They become new Jacket Distributor, old jacket distributor get their power.
Soviets were targeted by this on night 1, lost original power, became jacket distributor. Original Soviet role now in hands of whoever original jacket person was! Original Soviet role has not flipped yet, so original jacket distributor ees still alive somewhere and can confirm Soviet claim somewhat.
Last night, Soviets attempted to use jacket trade on Combo Breaker, since word of Meelhouse confirm Combo Breaker has powerful role and ees scum. Soviets figure, why not, Roleblock+Rolecop awfully nice thing to have in town hands, jacket trade power (which seem to bring chaos and trouble) will die with Combo Breaker guaranteed lynch, Soviets can claim thees so town is properly informed and does not freak out at sudden soviet roleblocks, work all around.
Except Soviets wind up roleblocked somehow, so trade not happen. Soviets still stuck with leather jacket power. Debating what to do with it tonight, if anytheeng. But, original jacket trade person still out there, can confirm existence of jacket power and giving it to all wonderful communist state, and ees at least some evidence towards Soviet roleblocking since ees no reason scum hang on to jacket power instead of trade with townie.
Of course, original jacket power holder may well be scum. So.
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(http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/3103/cookie4w.jpg)
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Well, if you're going to do that...
I am the original jacket power holder. Soviet's description of it is accurate.
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(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/2148/retard2t.jpg)
(http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/1407/buncb.jpg)
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And, on that note, I'm gonna need some more soon... (http://i43.tinypic.com/fdvfj6.jpg)
...right. That is... wow. I'm not really sure what to say, outside of pretty much confirming you as Town now. (Amazing what difference a day makes, isn't it? >.<)
Right. Until we get some more input, I'm content with lynching Combo today and Touhou tomorrow. For now, though, I'm off, so don't expect input from me for a while. No doubt I'll return to a spam wall of pictures that I'll just lol at and move on. :)
Congrats, though, Combo. At least you're going down in style, and I've not seen some of those pics before!
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Okay, so let's just get all of this down so no-one gets lost in the midst of all this COMBO BREAKING.
- I got bus drivered/misdirected somehow and ended up sending my copy of Killer Instinct to Advice Dog instead of Combo Breaker. It killed him.
- Rick Astley apparently recruited Bel-Air as a mason via a Writer/Paparazzi link on Night 1. Conveniently this pair also happens to be the two players that public demand seems to want lynched following Combo...
- Demotivational Poster claims to have seen Touhou Hijack target me last night and is accusing her (them?) of being the bus driver.
- Soviet is confirmed as the current owner of a leather jacket (pass on to another player, swap roles) which he got from Xbox.
- And in the midst of all this, Combo has basically decided his only useful scum contribution is to spam the thread and irritate/entertain (Your Milage May Vary) Town mildly before his death.
Think that's everything that's happened so far.
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All the C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER ones are just refashioned from random pics on my comp so they're relevant. Like so!
(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/2011/absolutcb.jpg)
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So town is all
(http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/6555/etoilefayeprop.jpg)
And scum is all
(http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/4653/dontcare.jpg)
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In Soviet Russia, red rings Xbox!
Xbox, why did you steal power of communist state?
Also Combo Breaker I think we get it, could you please stop spamming the thread now?
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(http://imgur.com/mT1eA.jpg) (http://imgur.com/mT1eA.jpg) "... well then. Well then. I'm... somewhat floored by the direction this has taken, but okay. Sure. We'll run with this for a moment.
"No roblock, obviously - since it was attached to rolecop they know my role, which... depending on info given to scumsquad, means that it's near-worthless. However, I've got a Cassandra-ish (ish) restriction, so please pardon me if I don't just loosen my tongue just yet. For now, though, I'm presuming that the ability would be a waste of my time, especially since the situation it'd be useful in is unlikely to arise anymore.
"Combo goes down today. Either Astley or Touhou tomorrow, I'm not convinced by the Bel-Air claim and Touhou's got some explainin' to do, which probably means a reread of Touhou posts later on, either today or in a night period. Soviet... isn't cleared quite yet, but I'm willing to buy it; neither is XBox but that can wait as well. The breakdown of XBox was, incidentally, deleted in a fit of annoyance at seeing the day end just as I was working on it, and partially because I was being an indecisive ass anywho.
"The remainder... uh. !cake's explanation, as well as Demotivator's backing, simplifies that immensely. So... breaking things down a bit for my feeble mind...
COMBO BREAKER - Well, geez. I don't know, guyz! Help me out on this one!
Rickroll(Rick Astley) - Leaning scum.
Boxxyel Air - Leaning scum.
TOUHOU HIJACK LOL - Leaning scum, but uncertain.
HUEG LIKE XBOX - Neutral.
OH GOD SHANA IS HOT - Neutral.
"Preferred lynching order at this point, I think? Could be persuaded on any of this, but I'm kneejerking only three remaining scum (metagame: 17 players, 4 scum, 2 potential night kills, means 14/4 day 2, 10/4 day 3, 7/4 day 4 which is LYLO, which feels possible. 5 gets us12/5, 9/5, 6/5 which feels much tighter than perhaps it should. Both examples presume no scum kills, which fortunately isn't the case.)
"What does three remaining scum mean? CCCCC/Rickroll/Boxxyel Air would have to be one set, due to the roleclaim (unless we presume one member is scum and one isn't, but then we deal with the remaining scum outside of the claimed masons and find them out later). Which means if Touhou can't explain/is scum, Astley/Air are cleared... and one of XBox/Shana is scum. Of course, this is so meta it hurts, and we might be dealing with four, but for now I'm presuming that's not the case.
"Double reason why the mason claim doesn't sit well? Rickroll doesn't mention it in his explosion of sorts at Advice Doggy, in which he claims he's as good as dead. So Bel Air sounds like he's trying to salvage the situation, while Rickroll... well, a mason claim might have helped straighten some stuff up and give him some support, but he lashes out while bemoaning he's good as dead while he theoretically is a mason.
"So, yeah. There's my thoughts for now. Any comments?"
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Also Combo Breaker I think we get it, could you please stop spamming the thread now?
(http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/4653/dontcare.jpg)
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Image of where the people who care live
(http://imgur.com/ZEjJb.jpg) (http://imgur.com/ZEjJb.jpg) "Oooh, there's one for me to save. And kinda frankly, we are leaving him hanging (well, we -will- be leaving him hanging, at least). I figure he'll get tired at some point, but asking him to stop seems kinda counterproductive, as nice as it'd be."
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Okay wow, so In response to Russia, I was about to say that I don't think anyone would confirm it, since it almost makes too much sense for scum to have roleblocked him, after getting his power, and figuring that they would target Combo due to his confirmed role, but then the Box comes out and claims. Planning to relook at everything of Xbox's, but for now I'll be going out with some of my homies, will be back in a bit.
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I don't know why my original model stole workers' means of production, I'm just the replacement. Sorry I can't be more help.
Can the Demotivator really not have realised that switching dog and combo breaker makes perfect sense for a town busdriver, supposing they wanted to, oh I don't know, make combo breaker be the victim of the scum nightkill? I realise "too stupid to be scum" is a bogus argument, but wow.
Disagree violently with the congratulation of combo breaker. Spamming the thread is not "going down in style" by any means. I am horribly tempted to push for an early lynch just to put a stop to it.
His ninja redoubles that thought. Haven't read all of 2g1c's ninja yet, but it's also favouring lynching touhou? Come on guys.
And double ninja again. Whatever.
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Disagree violently with the congratulation of combo breaker. Spamming the thread is not "going down in style" by any means. I am horribly tempted to push for an early lynch just to put a stop to it.
His ninja redoubles that thought. Haven't read all of 2g1c's ninja yet, but it's also favouring lynching touhou? Come on guys.
And double ninja again. Whatever.
(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/7269/hurrdurrb.jpg)
(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/7472/hockey5ps.jpg)
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Town Strategy:
(http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/997/jedi3.jpg)
Town Effectiveness:
(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/5377/itstrue.gif)
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(http://imgur.com/hNRxo.jpg) (http://imgur.com/hNRxo.jpg) "XBox, Touhou is a possibility, and what you just said -did- occur to me. But I wanted to hear Touhou explain it for one, and for two, I favor breaking down Astley/Air first, as stated in my post. Only if that avenue wears out does Touhou go onto the table. Part of it is the stigma of bus driver, which is very often a scum role, that creates this potential. Granted, that's meta, but at this point where roles are going onto the table, meta inevitably creeps in and I feel little shame in invoking it. It doesn't push Touhou ahead of the other two right now, by any means.
"Also in part the previous post was made because attempting to scold him for this isn't gonna get us anywhere, and so we may as well smile and nod politely at the tantrum while going about our own business and generally ignoring it. ...but also because we saved that picture."
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Alternately, in response to Soviet and X-Box
(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/7550/only.jpg)
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Tantrum? More like:
(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)
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Да , Soviets did not think well, of course replacement not know why original XBox stole means of production. Soviets quietly gnash teeth if turns out to be scum reason and replacement saving bacon, but that not concern for now.
No, нет, town bus driver no way in dirty American land is possibility. Town bus driver would not flip Combo with anyone! Would redirect vig kills going in Combo's direction! Ees exactly what happened! If Touhou is bus driver, is certainly capitalist scum.
Soviets are thinking remaining scum probably Touhou bus driver and one of Astley/Bel Air pair. No hard justification, just gut at moment, but can see Touhou scum. Really just shooting vodka until Touhou arrive, though.
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Town Voting, re: Me
(http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/7291/tsunderemom.jpg)
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Careful town, too much:
(http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/1262/pic52.jpg)
Leads to
(http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/9118/drunkkitty.png)
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Town right now:
(http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/1083/million.jpg)
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(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/1729/nitoriisnotamused.jpg)
So I've been summoned back here, away from my workbench. I was hoping it would be longer before I needed to show up again, as there are still so many other residents of Gensokyo that have not had their chance to appear, but there isn't a lot I can do about that now.
I am a Town Kappa Fanthing~. The ~ is very important, mind you, and Hina would curse me if I forgot to keep it nailed on. Since my species consider humans allies but are scared witless by them all the same, my job is to pick someone each night to fangasm over, following them around, but staying out of their sight, naturally. In your terms, I am a Tracker.
Night 1 I targeted the Box (apparently we're now afraid of boxes as well as humans) and saw him target the Russian. This was a small internal part of my case against him at the time, as I wasn't feeling good about the Box after Day 1 and I thought the Russian didn't look that bad. The post-lolcatflip reread of the girls got me to switch my vote, though, since they ended up looking scummier based on in-game posts (and the Russian wasn't actually decommissioned so it was somewhat possible the Box's night action wasn't inherently malevolent).
Last night I targeted the Cake and saw him target Momizi, which basically settled me in on him being third party. Since there was an emergency in the workshop I didn't bother asking him about it in my first post (and I figured someone else would anyway since everyone saw what happened to Momizi). The claim that he targeted the Breaker and the explanation of his power tells me he's trying to bullshit his way around responsibility for Momizi's death, talking about Bus Drivers and trying to stir up confusion and/or paranoia and/or sympathy and/or townie points for really wanting to kill the confirmed scum, honest! and/or Kanako only knows what else that would help him achieve whatever his victory condition is.
So why target Momizi and not the Breaker, if he's a third party? It's possible he wanted to keep the scales balanced, since one side overwhelming the other too quickly is likely not good for him, and forcing town to lynch the Breaker is one less chance for him to get lynched. There is also another idea I had - Cake claims that he offers trinkets to players and that they have to make the conscious effort to accept them, a mechanic confirmed by Momizi's last post.
This next part is admittedly going down Theory Road, so I'm not 100% positive on it and am open to alternate explanations, but I know what I am and what I've seen.
The specifics of Cake's role, as discussed by Cake himself and implied by Momizi, means that the scum team would have been aware of the action before it took effect, because lolcat had to make the choice to accept it. Think about this from scum's point of view. One of their number gets a mystery trinket, they take it and that member wakes up to being dead. Cake then claims responsibility for the kill later in Day 2, so obviously he knows something about what happened. Given all this, offering a second trinket to another scum - one that knows everyone in the game knows is scum - seems incredibly pointless, because of what happened the first time around. They'd have no motivation to take it. It's a useless gesture, and I think a town Cake would have realized this and targeted someone else he thought was scum on the off-chance that he hits scum again and they think it might have been a coincidence the first time around.
On the subject of Bel Air and the singer, I am inclined to think one is scum but not both; the idea of scum team claiming masons has been discussed to death, even with the suspect nature of how they became allies. I look at Bel Air more, to be honest, as he seems to be trying to pass the cucumber to the singer to avoid taking responsibility for his vote switching.
Not happy with Demote trying to line up lynches here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100655.html#msg100655), especially without waiting to hear from all parties involved. This isn't the first time he's been happy to jump to conclusions, either (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100302.html#msg100302).
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(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/2489/lightningx.png)
(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/9282/kittyue.png)
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(http://imgur.com/hNRxo.jpg) (http://imgur.com/hNRxo.jpg) "Claim conflict, then; this is part of why I didn't follow the line of logic all too terribly, though I confess that with role madness I had been wondering about a busser. And Touhou, I confess I'm -marginally- more willing to trust, though there are a few reservations there. Regardless, CCCC needs to be the first target, and breaking things down can go from there when the field is quieter.
"This being said, I am somewhat weary. I'll address more when I wake, but this creates a few dilemmas, and I'm not quite sure where to go from here. Sleeping on it may be of assistance, so."
EDIT BEFORE POSTING SINCE THE ABOVE IS A BUNCH OF WAGGLYFLUFF: I don't trust Touhou fully for a few reasons (non-role related, mind), will elaborate later. Entirely possible she tells the full truth, but I'm not convinced just yet. Very much want a post before hammer, so do be so kind as to wait on that before ending the day?
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(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/8679/mech4cb.png)
(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/3486/thepower.png)
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(http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/7721/liongetincar.jpg)
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(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/6910/bearboy.jpg)
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Just while it's on my mind, on Cake's selection-
Sure. Scum already know about Cake's condition.
But if that's the case, why would he target advice dog- and give it away to everyone because he can speak at night? If he was an SK he'd be far better off concealing his power rather than letting everyone know it exists, town and scum. On the rolegame alone, a bus looks more likely (and if cake is town then what else is he going to do, anyway? >_>)
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(http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/6133/s51201.jpg)
(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/5483/0002rv.jpg)
Now I know you guys like learning things, so I've prepared a special history lesson just for town today!
THE HISTORY OF THE MONORAIL CAT
The proud history of the Monorail Cat dates back to 1844, when the first prototype model, or "Peaches" as it was known, was built in Spokane, Washington.
(http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/4595/monorailcat.jpg)
It was a huge success, leading to new types once the production got underway, such as this cold weather model:
(http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/2140/monorailcatwinter.jpg)
After the deadly crash of 1907 in Butte, Utah that killed 123 people, a lot of work was put into a new emergency braking system, detailed here:
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/4558/monorailcatbrakes.jpg)
In 1927, New York City finally implemented it's first Monorail Cat Subway after many years of delays.
(http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/6695/monorailcatsubway.jpg)
Unfortunately, 1982 proved to be a bad year for the Monorail Cat once the World's Fair in Knoxville, Tennesee unveiled the latest upgrade in cat technology:
(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/1102/monorailcathover.jpg)
I hope you enjoyed this lesson! Try again, starting from your last save point!
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(http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/6305/nitoripepsi.jpg)
Like I said, I think he would have targeted someone else he thought was scum. Or possibly not used it at all, though this is far less likely simply because, as useless a gesture as testing the Breaker would be, it would still have a higher chance of success than doing nothing.
I don't think the fact that Momizi could talk at night made a difference, as I imagine people would have questioned the kills anyway and he would have had to own up to it eventually. I will admit, however, that I didn't stop to think why Momizi as opposed to a handful of other potential targets. I chalk this up to putting so much faith in my printouts.
If we are indeed dealing with a Bus Driver, all sensors point me to Demote for pretty obvious reasons.
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Summary of town so far:
Touhou: (http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)
Shana: (http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)
2Girls1Cup: (http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)
Soviet: (http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)
X-Box: (http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)
All Your Base: (http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)
Rickroll: (http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)
Bel Air: (http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)
Demotivational: (http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)
C-C-COMBO BREAKER:
(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/8753/jesusbusters.jpg)
In Short:
(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)
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(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/3453/nitorifinger.jpg)
Yeah, the more I think about it, the less sense a conscious Momizi kill makes for Third Party Cake, mostly for the sheer amount of negative attention it would draw.
Color me convinced by the Bus Driver explanation, and thereby convinced of Demote being scum. This would certainly explain his attempt to line my lynch up.
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(http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/9582/wellplayed.gif)
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In Soviet Russia, bus drives you!
Bus driver of some sort at work seem very probable. Copy of Killer Instinct, obviously chosen to be appropriate for Combo Breaker. Hard to imagine serial killer Cake intentionally mismatching item in order to set up claim of being bus driven - what advantage setting up claim give Cake, besides expose to risk of being called on lie? Inclined to say Cake is town, and bus driver one of Demotivational Poster or Hijack of Touhou. Fortunately we have night to sort out, after lynch Breaker of Combo.
Speaking of which, Soviets busy nearly all day tomorrow, so will put vote back on now. Weel probably deliver role swap jacket to someone tonight, as heads up, unless there are reasons not to? On further thought seems sort of like ghetto rolecop, at least - can see if someone telling truth about role at least.
Also, eet come to mind that serial killer rather unlikely for game where jacket distribution being passed around - what happen if try to pass jacket to killer? Alignment swap almost certainly not happen, and if jacket fail or killer have other power that is traded, seem very easy to figure out.
##Vote: Combo Breaker
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Finally voting for me?
(http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/7472/nukesitepreview.png)
Careful though, Kitty will be watching you at night!
(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/4550/sniperkitty.jpg)
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Ending the day now still seems a bit premature, Comrad. We still have over fifty hours left in the day, and there's still things to discuss. I mean, hell, weren't you one of the people with questions for me (granted, unlike my alter ego, I think the night is pretty damn safe for me).
Anyways, to start, yeah. I'll confirm Box-Air as a fellow Mason. Sadly, it turns out that how I picked him out amounted to one hell of a lucky guess, since the clue he dropped was, well... not what I was looking for. But, he was the only person who even remotely dropped something like what the hint I was looking for was, so it all worked out. Granted, I also got heavily warned that he's not to be trusted, so hey, there's a reason I wasn't so keen on advertising. It was pretty obvious that we were going to draw fire if public, didn't have the confirmed thing to protect either one of us if lynched (on the other hand, lynching one of us tells you guys jack all since, hey, not confirmed. I'm not sure this is an upside), and honestly, I personally am not sure I trust him yet. Especially with how quick he was to trust us.
Granted, he can confirm the other odd thing about my position. Namely, unlike the girls, who share a cup between them, we've got two posters and one account. I got Day 1, he got Day 2, and now we're merged into some kind of ass-kicking blob. I hope. >_> So, I leave Day 2 questions to my little buddy. One thing I can answer is that he did apparently talk Bel-Air into going for the Ruskies, which is a crying shame, but there you have it.
Now, on to recent events. We've certainly trainwrecked in awesome fashion. I think we can all agree that !Cake isn't scum now, though not sure I buy the Towniness. What I find more interesting is that, if Demo isn't lying, then Touhou can't be a busser. Targetting the wrong person. I think the proper term would be hijack in this case. Which, I definately find to be an interesting idea.
However, I do have some questions first, for Demo, actually. Let's start off by looking at this post. (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100644.html#msg100644) You said you felt you had wasted your action. So, a) Why did you not try to change it? It's too late to ask, but our mod doesn't seem the type to hold you to one choice if you haven't receiver results yet. b) Why did you feel it was wasted? And that leads to c) Who did you target?
Yeah, I know, digging and all that. But I think these questions are relevant enough, especially now that it seems likely that either you or Touhou is lying.
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Townies fighting!??!
(http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/719/fclub.jpg)
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I think it's really unlikely demotivational would make a play like this as scum, it pretty much locks in the lynch of either himself or Touhou- and trading one townie for one scum is so rarely a good deal, 'specially since Combo's on the way out. That's three scum in at the most five days, which is pretty terribad (and it might've been better for scum if they thought an SK was still running around pruning numbers, but well that seems unlikely now so yeah.)
Basically it's a terrible gambit if that's what it is, he is bound to be caught and lynched if he is lying, and thus I will assume he is not and that Touhou's probably the driver in question here.
Astley: Mod said that once you send actions via PM they're locked in. I think there is no point in further questioning people on roles at this time, since most of the details are actually irrelevant in the scheme of things.
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Shana!
(http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/9179/aizenwantsyou.jpg)
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Damn, how could I have been blind (http://crazy-jokes.com/pictures/blind-stickup.jpg) enough to miss that. You're right, PMs lock stuff in.
That said... as much as I hate to say it, there's one thing we both missed. Namely, what Demo's said has been confirmed. I mean, regardless of Touhou's status, Touhou has stated that they did visit !Cake. And that's all that Demo claimed. There is something I'm looking for there, but it's really more curiosity about Touhou at this point than about Demo.
The more I think on it... I don't think it rules him out as scum, though it does make things more, complicated. There's also a few things about how their stories mix and match that seem odd. Yes, I know my language is vague, but, I can't really get any clearer right now, also for a few reasons.
There's also the option that both of them are telling the truth, which... also leads us to WIFOM about whether or not !Cake is incomprehensible third party, or there's a busser completely unrelated to the two of them.
Hmm... Touhou? Here's a question for you. If you say that Demo is a busser, then how did he know you targetted Cake? In fact, how does his knowing you did something you confirmed you did make him look bad?
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(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3623/deadhorse.jpg)
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C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER
Damn, how could I have been blind (http://crazy-jokes.com/pictures/blind-stickup.jpg) enough to miss that. You're right, PMs lock stuff in.
That said... as much as I hate to say it, there's one thing we both missed. Namely, what Demo's said has been confirmed. I mean, regardless of Touhou's status, Touhou has stated that they did visit !Cake. And that's all that Demo claimed. There is something I'm looking for there, but it's really more curiosity about Touhou at this point than about Demo.
The more I think on it... I don't think it rules him out as scum, though it does make things more, complicated. There's also a few things about how their stories mix and match that seem odd. Yes, I know my language is vague, but, I can't really get any clearer right now, also for a few reasons.
There's also the option that both of them are telling the truth, which... also leads us to WIFOM about whether or not !Cake is incomprehensible third party, or there's a busser completely unrelated to the two of them.
Hmm... Touhou? Here's a question for you. If you say that Demo is a busser, then how did he know you targetted Cake? In fact, how does his knowing you did something you confirmed you did make him look bad?
Damn, how could I have been blind (http://crazy-jokes.com/pictures/blind-stickup.jpg) enough to miss that. You're right, PMs lock stuff in.
That said... as much as I hate to say it, there's one thing we both missed. Namely, what Demo's said has been confirmed. I mean, regardless of Touhou's status, Touhou has stated that they did visit !Cake. And that's all that Demo claimed. There is something I'm looking for there, but it's really more curiosity about Touhou at this point than about Demo.
The more I think on it... I don't think it rules him out as scum, though it does make things more, complicated. There's also a few things about how their stories mix and match that seem odd. Yes, I know my language is vague, but, I can't really get any clearer right now, also for a few reasons.
There's also the option that both of them are telling the truth, which... also leads us to WIFOM about whether or not !Cake is incomprehensible third party, or there's a busser completely unrelated to the two of them.
Hmm... Touhou? Here's a question for you. If you say that Demo is a busser, then how did he know you targetted Cake? In fact, how does his knowing you did something you confirmed you did make him look bad?
Damn, how could I have been blind (http://crazy-jokes.com/pictures/blind-stickup.jpg) enough to miss that. You're right, PMs lock stuff in.
That said... as much as I hate to say it, there's one thing we both missed. Namely, what Demo's said has been confirmed. I mean, regardless of Touhou's status, Touhou has stated that they did visit !Cake. And that's all that Demo claimed. There is something I'm looking for there, but it's really more curiosity about Touhou at this point than about Demo.
The more I think on it... I don't think it rules him out as scum, though it does make things more, complicated. There's also a few things about how their stories mix and match that seem odd. Yes, I know my language is vague, but, I can't really get any clearer right now, also for a few reasons.
There's also the option that both of them are telling the truth, which... also leads us to WIFOM about whether or not !Cake is incomprehensible third party, or there's a busser completely unrelated to the two of them.
Hmm... Touhou? Here's a question for you. If you say that Demo is a busser, then how did he know you targetted Cake? In fact, how does his knowing you did something you confirmed you did make him look bad?
Damn, how could I have been blind (http://crazy-jokes.com/pictures/blind-stickup.jpg) enough to miss that. You're right, PMs lock stuff in.
That said... as much as I hate to say it, there's one thing we both missed. Namely, what Demo's said has been confirmed. I mean, regardless of Touhou's status, Touhou has stated that they did visit !Cake. And that's all that Demo claimed. There is something I'm looking for there, but it's really more curiosity about Touhou at this point than about Demo.
The more I think on it... I don't think it rules him out as scum, though it does make things more, complicated. There's also a few things about how their stories mix and match that seem odd. Yes, I know my language is vague, but, I can't really get any clearer right now, also for a few reasons.
There's also the option that both of them are telling the truth, which... also leads us to WIFOM about whether or not !Cake is incomprehensible third party, or there's a busser completely unrelated to the two of them.
Hmm... Touhou? Here's a question for you. If you say that Demo is a busser, then how did he know you targetted Cake? In fact, how does his knowing you did something you confirmed you did make him look bad?
##VOTE: COMBO BREAKER
Damn, how could I have been blind (http://crazy-jokes.com/pictures/blind-stickup.jpg) enough to miss that. You're right, PMs lock stuff in.
That said... as much as I hate to say it, there's one thing we both missed. Namely, what Demo's said has been confirmed. I mean, regardless of Touhou's status, Touhou has stated that they did visit !Cake. And that's all that Demo claimed. There is something I'm looking for there, but it's really more curiosity about Touhou at this point than about Demo.
The more I think on it... I don't think it rules him out as scum, though it does make things more, complicated. There's also a few things about how their stories mix and match that seem odd. Yes, I know my language is vague, but, I can't really get any clearer right now, also for a few reasons.
There's also the option that both of them are telling the truth, which... also leads us to WIFOM about whether or not !Cake is incomprehensible third party, or there's a busser completely unrelated to the two of them.
Hmm... Touhou? Here's a question for you. If you say that Demo is a busser, then how did he know you targetted Cake? In fact, how does his knowing you did something you confirmed you did make him look bad?
Damn, how could I have been blind (http://crazy-jokes.com/pictures/blind-stickup.jpg) enough to miss that. You're right, PMs lock stuff in.
That said... as much as I hate to say it, there's one thing we both missed. Namely, what Demo's said has been confirmed. I mean, regardless of Touhou's status, Touhou has stated that they did visit !Cake. And that's all that Demo claimed. There is something I'm looking for there, but it's really more curiosity about Touhou at this point than about Demo.
The more I think on it... I don't think it rules him out as scum, though it does make things more, complicated. There's also a few things about how their stories mix and match that seem odd. Yes, I know my language is vague, but, I can't really get any clearer right now, also for a few reasons.
There's also the option that both of them are telling the truth, which... also leads us to WIFOM about whether or not !Cake is incomprehensible third party, or there's a busser completely unrelated to the two of them.
Hmm... Touhou? Here's a question for you. If you say that Demo is a busser, then how did he know you targetted Cake? In fact, how does his knowing you did something you confirmed you did make him look bad?
Damn, how could I have been blind (http://crazy-jokes.com/pictures/blind-stickup.jpg) enough to miss that. You're right, PMs lock stuff in.
That said... as much as I hate to say it, there's one thing we both missed. Namely, what Demo's said has been confirmed. I mean, regardless of Touhou's status, Touhou has stated that they did visit !Cake. And that's all that Demo claimed. There is something I'm looking for there, but it's really more curiosity about Touhou at this point than about Demo.
The more I think on it... I don't think it rules him out as scum, though it does make things more, complicated. There's also a few things about how their stories mix and match that seem odd. Yes, I know my language is vague, but, I can't really get any clearer right now, also for a few reasons.
There's also the option that both of them are telling the truth, which... also leads us to WIFOM about whether or not !Cake is incomprehensible third party, or there's a busser completely unrelated to the two of them.
Hmm... Touhou? Here's a question for you. If you say that Demo is a busser, then how did he know you targetted Cake? In fact, how does his knowing you did something you confirmed you did make him look bad?
C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER
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Whoever said I would get tired of this was nuts. Like this guy:
(http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/9037/landlord.png)
But we know he's totally:
(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/1151/l33tcereal.jpg)
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Random (http://snuffleupagush.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/random.jpg) thought I had. Touhou, why did you decide to watch one of the most visible roles in the game? I mean, granted, a better choice than anyone else we had in the open, but that still left 10 people for you to chose, several of whom had to look worse than !Cake. So... why watch the Vig? It makes no sense to me.
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WHY DID YOU WATCH THE VIG?
HOW MANY LICKS DOES IT TAKE TO GET TO THE CENTER OF A TOOTSIE POP?
WHO IS ERIC CARTMAN'S FATHER?
WHAT WOULD JESUS DO?
These questions and more are what we try to answer here.
Tonight's episode:
(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/6233/kajid.jpg)
(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2647/kaji1a.jpg)
(http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/2301/kaji2a.jpg)
(http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/2848/kaji3a.jpg)
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About all I can offer to the kappa is that I definitely targeted Combo Breaker last night. Why else would I have offered a copy of Killer Instinct?
As for the question of why I tried to kill scum after lolcats, there were two possibilities I wanted to try and make something out of.
1. lolcat didn't have the time/patience to mention his gift before the end of the day.
2. Scum assumed it was a hidden power given that the gifts they were getting were unusually specific to their character, and that lolcat getting hit that night was just coincidence.
Unlikely, perhaps, but I figured that if it was a choice between 'Combo accepts and dies' and 'Combo refuses and nothing happens', there was nothing to lose. Of course, I didn't factor in the bus driver. >_>
Not sure where I stand on Kappa Hijack now. There's almost definitely scum between her and Demotivator, whose response to the claim I want to see.
Rick and Bel-Air...are sharing an account now? Seems rather big, but 2g1c made a pretty strong point earlier in 'why didn't Rick bother to mention that?'
Except, apparently, it was Bel-Air posting under Rick's account at the time (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100722.html#msg100722), and - you know what, I'm confused now.
Has anyone seen any sign of AYB recently? I don't recall him posting all day.
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TOUHOOOOOOOOOOOOU! (http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o145/ddrfr33k/Demotivators/TouhouDDR.jpg?t=1268220088)
However, I do have some questions first, for Demo, actually. Let's start off by looking at this post. (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100644.html#msg100644) You said you felt you had wasted your action. So, a) Why did you not try to change it? It's too late to ask, but our mod doesn't seem the type to hold you to one choice if you haven't receiver results yet. b) Why did you feel it was wasted? And that leads to c) Who did you target?
Alright, guess I'll give the whole lot away. I felt I'd wasted my action because Advice Dog was killed, and not Cake. I figured one of those would die, so I decided to watch one of them, and eventually decided on Cake. When Advice Dog died, I figured I'd missed my chance at finding a killer, until Cake claimed to target Combo with Killer Instinct. Nobody else targeted Cake, which is what makes me certain that Touhou is our hijacker. (And yes, I did mix up Hijacker with Bus Driver. Hadn't heard the term Hijacker until Astley mentioned it, unfortunately.)
Point is, there's absolutely no way that me, Touhou and Cake are telling the truth. I know I'm Town, I was already more convinced by Cake than Touhou, and Cake's story makes a lot of sense. So I'm definitely going to be pushing for a Touhou lynch tomorrow.
I'm not entirely sure why Touhou feels the need to confirm my claim while accusing me of lying, unless it's for fear of another Watcher/Tracker.
Cake Ninja: Yeah, don't recall anything from AYB either, although vision might be c-c-c-clouded. I think the implication was that Rick has two players, not that Bel Air was Rick #2. And the rest is above.
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As far as I'm concerned today and tomorrow are pretty much on autopilot due to role shenanigans, so I will have little to argue with regards to the lynches save some pretty simple logic that anyone can see. I think AYB looks better for voting combo during clutch, I'm no longer sure on Russia buuut being the runnerup on a scum vs. town fight yesterday makes him look a lot better.
Bel-air vs. Astley, we've had a game recently where unconfirmed masons pretty much lead to town defeat, the blaiseness is honestly shocking. Bel-Air has barely been playing, switching around on lynch between combo and russia at the end makes me very suspicious. Will be considering a Bel-Air lynch (and an astley lynch really, but I doubt both are scum cooking up a gambit, and bel-air seems more likely to me.)
2g1c was roleblocked and being roleblocked in this game seems like a pretty clear townie indicator, so nothing else to say here.
XBoX I recall had some pretty bizzare things to say day2, particularly that crap on 'those guys are looking super townie, but we need to be suspicious of them anyway!!1' and a vauge suspicion that as a replacement in, he tagged onto russia because it was the happening lynch. Would consider lynching him, will be considering masons first.
Lynching Combo today and Touhou (omg shiki why T_T) tomorrow is my agenda, if it needs restating. Can we lynch combo now? What? AYB hasn't posted? Then I guess we shouldn't.
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(http://imgur.com/mT1eA.jpg) (http://imgur.com/mT1eA.jpg) "Okay. I've got three things I want to say right now, before the lynch goes on; I'd like all three to be answered before CCCC dies, so if we could hold off on the lynch right now, that'd be splendid.
"First order of business. TOUHOU HIJACK LOL, all other presumptions being made (survival, etc.,), I want -you- to declare your Tracker results -first- tomorrow. Yes, this means no one else should state their night actions until Touhou does. I'm going to wait on explaining this for a bit, but the basic intent is not that difficult. Yes, I have concerns asking this, what with a possible Hijacker out of you/Demotive/other lurkerish people, but this should give us a chance for greater clarification, which is badly needed at this point.
"Second order of business. Shiki, mayhaps I missed it, but I just read the post and your previous one a few times, so forgive me for doing to you what you did to me: I cannot see your reasoning for Touhou > Demotivator at this point. Care to clarify?
"Third. Rick Astley. Please confirm that your role/account has been controlled by -two separate people-, one of whom is you D1/3, and one of whom was D2 Astley, and furthermore please confirm that this was an innate function of your role and not something that suddenly happened day 2. Also, elaborate on if it was Bel-Air or not. This is somewhat important, and I'd like this to be out-and-out stated for my simple little girl brain before I continue sifting through the data.
"Will be back a bit later, hoping for some answers in this time but I'm not holding my breath, this is a dead time of the day."
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"EBWOP: I think I see where Shiki/Shana is coming from, but please just post it, again, for my little girl brain. I like more explanation.
"And again, please, people, do not hammer for a while longer yet; I'd like these questions answered."
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Russia points out that a town busdriver wouldn't want to redirect the vig kill onto dog. Yes, but it would be quite reasonable to assume cake was going to be roleblocked, in which case dog<->C-C-C-C is perfectly sensible. In fact I honestly can't think of a better pairing for a townie busdriver to choose.
So given that, the hijack could have got away with going along with the demotivator and claiming townie busdriver. Claiming tracker instead looks like it would be a poor scum move, though obviously that's very WIFOMy.
Disagree with touhou's theory saying C-C-C-C is a poor cake target. Throwing it at the confirmed scum and hoping he accepts is a perfectly reasonable town strategy. Targeting someone who isn't confirmed scum on the hopes that since they don't know you know they're scum they're more likely to accept... not worth it in my book, when weighed against the risk of hitting town.
EDIT EDIT Stupid terminology confusion. This probably affects my last several posts; I've been assuming the demotivator was claiming there was a busdriver, not a hijacker, due to, well, him saying "busdriver". Will post this now (lunchbreak ending) and do new reasoning when I get home tonight.
As Astley said, even assuming truthful town cake and truthful town touhou (which requires the busdriver's power to also affect what the tracker sees, but that's by no means impossible), I don't see why demotivate must be scum. Stupid, yes, to think that what he's seen implies what he's claimed it does - but what he actually claimed to have seen (rather than what he inferred from it) seems to be true. But there's an important question that needs answering here: Demotivator, why did you ever think that Touhou targeting Cake proves it must be hijacker? Why were you sure we were looking at a hijacker rather than a busdriver - who, as Astley says, would have been targetting Dog and C-C-C-C and not Cake.
Doubleninja only skimmed, don't think it changes anything I've said.
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More posts? Only more to C-C-C-COMBO BREAK, my dear!
(http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/348/breaketh.png)
(http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/2516/consumerwhore.png)(http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/2516/consumerwhore.png)(http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/2516/consumerwhore.png)(http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/2516/consumerwhore.png)(http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/2516/consumerwhore.png)(http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/2516/consumerwhore.png)(http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/2516/consumerwhore.png)(http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/2516/consumerwhore.png)
By the way, Killer Instinct sux. You should have offered...
(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/669/phalanx.jpg)(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/669/phalanx.jpg)(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/669/phalanx.jpg)(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/669/phalanx.jpg)(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/669/phalanx.jpg)(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/669/phalanx.jpg)(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/669/phalanx.jpg)(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/669/phalanx.jpg)(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/669/phalanx.jpg)(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/669/phalanx.jpg)
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Finally relevant again. Figured I'd be needing this early on today in self-reference, but the day's gone relatively well, so using it now. (http://i39.tinypic.com/2587bd2.jpg)
Demotivator, why did you ever think that Touhou targeting Cake proves it must be hijacker? Why were you sure we were looking at a hijacker rather than a busdriver - who, as Astley says, would have been targetting Dog and C-C-C-C and not Cake.
Ggh. I'll admit, I didn't consider that one, having not come across the role in practice before (hence the earlier confusion with the names).
In which case, seconding 2g1c on Touhou stating their target before anyone else. That'll pretty much clear things up as far as Hijacker/Bus Driver goes, unless they a) get damn lucky, or b) are scum fake-targeting scum.
(Anyone mind me trying to direct Combo's posts a little? I'm getting tired of the same damn pics and want to see some original posts, since we'll have to tolerate them either way.)
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(http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/8868/advicemudkip.jpg)
(http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/1692/sovietmudkip.jpg)
(http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/7591/mudkipzv.jpg)
(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/660/mudkipcaekcopy.jpg)
(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/7300/mudkipihadheardth.jpg)
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(Anyone mind me trying to direct Combo's posts a little? I'm getting tired of the same damn pics and want to see some original posts, since we'll have to tolerate them either way.)
(http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/8618/wahmbulancey.jpg)
(http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/8618/wahmbulancey.jpg)
(http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/8618/wahmbulancey.jpg)
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Screw roleplay, I've got posts!
Stupid logic theory post ahead! Please correct any mistakes!
Okay. What we have claimed:
Touhou Tracker saw !cake target ADog.
Demotive Watcher saw Touhou target !cake. (No one else.)
!cake targeted CCCCCC.
We know: ADog received the Killer Instinct.
Can the hijacker/switcher/whateverthefuckitis be -someone outside these three-?
Basic logic says YES; if all three are telling the truth, !cake must have targetted CCCCC. CCCCC and Advice Dog must have been swapped/hijack'd/bussed/whatever swaps -targets-. Demotive watched !cake, saw only Touhou target !cake (as the swapper need not in theory target !cake, this still holds), and Touhou saw !cake target ADog, who -due to busser was the new target of !cake-.
Is there an issue with this logic? If not, then -there is not definitively scum between the three, and in point of fact I'd venture there is not scum amongst any of the three. Touhou/Demotive, at the least, are not lying about their roles, and !cake, even if third party, is not actively malicious to town due to a (potential) honest attempt to catch a second scum with his ability.
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SO I HERD U LIKE MY IMMORTAL?
Preview first chapter, yes yes?
Hi my name is Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way and I have long ebony black hair (that's how I got my name) with purple streaks and red tips that reaches my mid-back and icy blue eyes like limpid tears and a lot of people tell me I look like Amy Lee (AN: if u don't know who she is get da hell out of here!). I'm not related to Gerard Way but I wish I was because he's a major fucking hottie. I'm a vampire but my teeth are straight and white. I have pale white skin. I'm also a witch, and I go to a magic school called Hogwarts in England where I'm in the seventh year (I'm seventeen). I'm a goth (in case you couldn't tell) and I wear mostly black. I love Hot Topic and I buy all my clothes from there. For example today I was wearing a black corset with matching lace around it and a black leather miniskirt, pink fishnets and black combat boots. I was wearing black lipstick, white foundation, black eyeliner and red eye shadow. I was walking outside Hogwarts. It was snowing and raining so there was no sun, which I was very happy about. A lot of preps stared at me. I put up my middle finger at them.
"Hey Ebony!" shouted a voice. I looked up. It was.... Draco Malfoy!
"What's up Draco?" I asked.
"Nothing." he said shyly.
But then, I heard my friends call me and I had to go away.
AN: IS it good? PLZ tell me fangz!
Is it as good a second time?
Hi my name is Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way and I have long ebony black hair (that's how I got my name) with purple streaks and red tips that reaches my mid-back and icy blue eyes like limpid tears and a lot of people tell me I look like Amy Lee (AN: if u don't know who she is get da hell out of here!). I'm not related to Gerard Way but I wish I was because he's a major fucking hottie. I'm a vampire but my teeth are straight and white. I have pale white skin. I'm also a witch, and I go to a magic school called Hogwarts in England where I'm in the seventh year (I'm seventeen). I'm a goth (in case you couldn't tell) and I wear mostly black. I love Hot Topic and I buy all my clothes from there. For example today I was wearing a black corset with matching lace around it and a black leather miniskirt, pink fishnets and black combat boots. I was wearing black lipstick, white foundation, black eyeliner and red eye shadow. I was walking outside Hogwarts. It was snowing and raining so there was no sun, which I was very happy about. A lot of preps stared at me. I put up my middle finger at them.
"Hey Ebony!" shouted a voice. I looked up. It was.... Draco Malfoy!
"What's up Draco?" I asked.
"Nothing." he said shyly.
But then, I heard my friends call me and I had to go away.
AN: IS it good? PLZ tell me fangz!
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Was very busy yesterday, still am very busy for about 5 more hours. Have checked over the role madness, think it's very unlikely that all of Cake, Demote and Touhou are telling the truth, at least right now. Not sure what to think of Astley and Boxed Air.
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Let's check in with our good friend, Advice Dog!
(http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/2669/advicedogtg.jpg)
(http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/3040/advicedogcsiga.jpg)
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(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/903/nitorirunningoutoffilen.jpg)
Mr. Astley, it's possible Demote is more than just a Bus Driver or Hijacker or whatever, or that scum obtained extra info somewhere along the line (who knows what lolcat could have done Night 1). You're asking me to speculate on scum roles in a role madness game with possible bastard moddery; I don't think this experiment is likely to succeed.
I targeted Cake because his inconsistent statements, kill claim and subsequent disappearance on Day 2 started inclining me toward thinking him third party. Wasn't fully convinced, but the suspicion was there, so Optical Camouflage go. I was curious to see if he had any other machinery at his disposal, and I also wanted to make sure he kept honest about his kill target.
Shana, I do think it is possible Demote is trying to pull something of an endgame run for a buddy (with seventeen players and role madness I believe four scum to be the case and was a bit surprised to see this actually get discussed) by getting me mislynched (if I may exteeeend my own aaaaarm for a moment) and creating a lot of confusion to oust some more role info. It is also possible we are both telling the truth and someone else entirely hit a redirection button, but Demote's play has been sufficiently scummy that I am more inclined to think him scum than speculate about outside forces.
I naturally assumed it would fall to me to declare results first tomorrow. I have no problem doing this.
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(http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/8127/waldorf.jpg)
Hey Statler, have you ever seen a troll this big?
(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/2121/statler.jpg)
Not since my wife died!
(http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/372/statlerandwaldorf.jpg)
Wohohohohohoho!
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So, SO relevant. Ignoring the 'picture', just taking the captions here. (http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0809/c-c-c-c-combo-breaker-demotivational-poster-1222211647.jpg)
Touhou is not Speculating on Roles is Speculating on Roles! Let's Play: Go through Touhou's posts today!
Post #1: (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100599.html#msg100599) Bel Air > Astley > me > Xbox > Shana > others. No comment on Cake and says that the NKs don't really change much.
Jump to Post #2 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100688.html#msg100688) where they use an in-topic claim that could apply to either Scum or Town and a proven target to roleclaim. This is followed by some WIFOM regarding 3rd-party Cake and then accuses me of lining up lynches and rushing without hearing from everyone when I explicitly state that we need more input.
Post #3 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100709.html#msg100709) says exactly why Cake would target Combo, despite Post #2 saying that Cake shouldn't have.
Post #4 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100714.html#msg100714) jumps back to me apparently lining up lynches and being scum Bus Driver. Except, y'know, I wouldn't have known that nobody other than you targeted Cake.
And now, Post #5 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100764.html#msg100764), the last of today, where you say you're not speculating on roles, and thus say "He could be more than just Bus Driver!" If that's not role speculation, what is? You seem to now be certain that I am scum, despite having both Bel Air and Astley ahead of me at the start of the day, and say that it's possible somebody else redirected the kill, but you're happy to assume it was me. Don't base your argument on the fact that I'm counter-claiming you; if it's possible for someone else to have redirected it, vote for who is most scummy. If you think that's me, I'd be interested to hear what I've done today to push me ahead of Rick and Bel Air who, outside of a questionable Mason claim, haven't offered all that much.
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So, SO relevant. Ignoring the 'picture', just taking the captions here. (http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0809/c-c-c-c-combo-breaker-demotivational-poster-1222211647.jpg)
(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/5926/umadb.png)
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(http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/9858/nitorieating.jpg)
Post #1: (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100599.html#msg100599) Bel Air > Astley > me > Xbox > Shana > others. No comment on Cake and says that the NKs don't really change much.
I do not much appreciate trying to paint me in a bad light due to my being pressed for time. There was a workshop emergency and I had to go right then and there so I didn't have time to think much about who I saw flip. Even given that, it's true that the flips did not change my list of who I thought was the scummiest very much, as I had just mentally dropped Cake into the third party bin, so if I had the time to attach a Cake modification to that post it would have been a separate matter entirely.
Jump to Post #2 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100688.html#msg100688) where they use an in-topic claim that could apply to either Scum or Town and a proven target to roleclaim. This is followed by some WIFOM regarding 3rd-party Cake and then accuses me of lining up lynches and rushing without hearing from everyone when I explicitly state that we need more input.
The claim coming before my return I can do nothing about. This is the point of having me claim first tomorrow, is it not?
I saw "I'm content with lynching Combo today and Touhou tomorrow" in your post and chalked it up to attempting to line up lynches. Why would you even say something like this if you were town, regardless of prefacing it with "until we get some more input" or not? It presupposes me to be scum, and all the prefaces in the world don't change that. "I really want to hear what Nitori has to say on this subject" is what I would have expected a town Demote to say, as it comes with the implication of "I will wait until all parties have weighed in before casting judgment". A snap decision of "okay I'd be happy to lynch Nitori tomorrow" is not what I would expect a town Demote to make.
Post #3 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100709.html#msg100709) says exactly why Cake would target Combo, despite Post #2 saying that Cake shouldn't have.
I agree that targeting Combo was the right choice over doing nothing. I still hold that targeting someone else Cake thought scummy would have been a better choice than Combo, however.
Post #4 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100714.html#msg100714) jumps back to me apparently lining up lynches and being scum Bus Driver. Except, y'know, I wouldn't have known that nobody other than you targeted Cake.
This assumes I should take your role as exactly what you have claimed and is already addressed in my response to Mr. Astley.
And now, Post #5 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100764.html#msg100764), the last of today, where you say you're not speculating on roles, and thus say "He could be more than just Bus Driver!" If that's not role speculation, what is?
Where did I say I was not role speculating? I said it was likely to be fruitless, not that I was not going to do it at all.
You seem to now be certain that I am scum, despite having both Bel Air and Astley ahead of me at the start of the day, and say that it's possible somebody else redirected the kill, but you're happy to assume it was me. Don't base your argument on the fact that I'm counter-claiming you; if it's possible for someone else to have redirected it, vote for who is most scummy. If you think that's me, I'd be interested to hear what I've done today to push me ahead of Rick and Bel Air who, outside of a questionable Mason claim, haven't offered all that much.
For one, you targeted Cake yourself. My reasons for thinking you more likely to be scum than town with someone else pushing buttons on the outside are pretty much summed up in my response to your second statement.
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Blah. I'm here, I'm reading, I had a huge post of stuff, let's just summarize and say I'm not yet buying that both Demotivator/!cake are lying, as I believe both would have to be in Touhou's example (logic presentable upon request) barring some extremely bizarre role. Flip side, push on Touhou seems somewhat scratchy:
Right. Until we get some more input, I'm content with lynching Combo today and Touhou tomorrow. For now, though, I'm off, so don't expect input from me for a while. No doubt I'll return to a spam wall of pictures that I'll just lol at and move on.
^-- Quote from your end p13 post. You do look kinda like you're lining stuff up, dude, and if I'm not mistaken you did that... before Touhou posted again, so her calling you out for the lineup isn't terribly unsurprising (ninja noted by Hijack who claims the same thing).
Possible scum is on either side of this argument, but... blagh, this seems like a gamble for both sides, bigger for Demote than for Touhou but regardless. Back in a bit.
Gutchecking TvT spat, honestly, kneejerking remaining two non-CCCCCC scum are cheerleading one way or another from sidelines, and thus:
I'm gonna read day 2 again. Right now, people I'm looking at: AYB, Shikishana, Boxxyel Air, MPDAstley. Idly, confessionally not pleased at the lack of much commentary from AYB/Air, but all four are kinda low on the radar which isn't a happy thing and the heavy lurkertude here amongst other things is worrisome, extremely so.
This is a trainwreck.
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Votecount
COMBO BREAKER (5): Cake, Russia, Touhou, XBOX, O R'LYEH, Russia, COMBO BREAKER
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Roughly 49 hours remain in Day 3.
COMBO BREAKER is at L-1!
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D1 Astley here, I'm pestering D2 Astley to show up, but we're having disagreements about a few things, so, eh.
Regardless, I'm gonna be busy enough that I'm not sure how much I'll be able to add after this. That said, I think I'm happy about where discussion stands for today, aside from AYB not really having joined in yet, and Bel-Air having said nothing at all about the Touhou/Demo issue. At least, not in public. Granted, the conversations I have had with the guy have me leaning town, but I'm not going to expect you guys to take my word for it, so I'll try and boot him into posting.
I'm still leaning against the Hijackers, but honestly, despite having brought it up, it still seems a little too convenient. I mean, that the guys named hijack would be a hijacker (though, after some recent Mafia's I can accept that that does happen). Main reason why I'm no longer to eager to hold onto today. So, will be content to vote after AYB's had a chance to raise some issues, and have them resolved.
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Would somebody mind taking their vote off of C-C-C-CRAZY? Not comfortable with him--her--IT being at L-1. (http://www.clockworkcouture.com/?q=catalog/4) Thank you.
Cup-Sisters: Your one and only DuckRoll V2 is here and ready for some action! (Preferably some song and dance) Before I answer your questions, might I add that the Applesauce Warriors already met last Wednesday, and are now on their yearly vacation. *ahem* Right then, your questions. Yes, there are two of us at the reins here. I was in control D2, and am in control right now. No, it isn't part of the role. I was originally meant to be a replacement, starting D2. (So, uhh, yeah. Couldn't really explain why D1 did what D1 Rick did. Sorry. I figure you weren't told about it, either, because Bastard Modding) But then, I got very frustrated with this game and its massive un-fun trainwreckiness, so the original came back and offered to take the reins from me, and I was torn between just giving up (I did say I was never gonna give you up) and staying in control, so the mod allowed for two people to be in control of the one account. Bel Air can confirm this. Oh, and Bel-Air is not me, I am not him. Nor is DuckRoll V1. Bel-Air is separate from us.
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.........
Well, I'm decently confident after a quick analysis of a few things that you are, indeed, two separate people. How much of the whole bastard moddery whatever thing I believe, I don't know; for a replacement to come in between D1 and D2 without announcement? Uhm. Please excuse my incredibly high amount of suspicion at that. It's really not... uh, it would be bastard moddery on a pretty special level, that; far more inclined to believe it's role related. But for now, I'll let that simmer, as there's little to be done today about it. Regardless, if you're not two different people, I'll be more than a little bit surprised, since one of you very very indirectly (perhaps unconsciously) has been hinting on it from D2 (as in I don't think even I would've guessed it, if not for experience spotting it and thinking to go back -now- and check to confirm, and if you're actually doing it intentionally to throw people off I will be incredibly surprised).
I'd be more inclined to believe the invisible replace -if XBox's replacement had also been invisible-. As it stands? Uh. Yeah, skeptic present. Working on reread still.
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2g1c: I think demotivational is far less likely to be scum than touhou because using a role to try and push a lynch on touhou would inevitably lead to his own destruction were he lying, and trading 1scum/1town is stupid from the scum perspective. Basically, he's playing to lose if he's scum. But playing to win if he's town!
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Also, I think I may have made a terrible mistake in playing this rolegame.
Touhou Tracker saw !cake target ADog.
Demotive Watcher saw Touhou target !cake. (No one else.)
!cake targeted CCCCCC.
We know: ADog received the Killer Instinct.
Can the hijacker/switcher/whateverthefuckitis be -someone outside these three-?
*headdesk*
retracting forceful suspicions, entering reconsideration mode.
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ebwop: and that's 2g1c, not demo as the quote.
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Me at this puzzle of roles. (http://kmss.q-spot.org/misc/picpost/demotivator_double-facepalm.jpg)
I do not much appreciate trying to paint me in a bad light due to my being pressed for time. There was a workshop emergency and I had to go right then and there so I didn't have time to think much about who I saw flip. Even given that, it's true that the flips did not change my list of who I thought was the scummiest very much, as I had just mentally dropped Cake into the third party bin, so if I had the time to attach a Cake modification to that post it would have been a separate matter entirely.
I'd assumed that much, yeah. I'm not attacking you for time restraints either, I'm attacking you for saying "At a quick glance, flips change nothing" when it was blindingly obvious that they would and did. If you'd simply said "No time to mention them now, more later" or something, I'd not think it was a problem.
Second point was me suddenly going from third to first without much (if any) reasoning throughout the day.
I saw "I'm content with lynching Combo today and Touhou tomorrow" in your post and chalked it up to attempting to line up lynches. Why would you even say something like this if you were town, regardless of prefacing it with "until we get some more input" or not? It presupposes me to be scum, and all the prefaces in the world don't change that. "I really want to hear what Nitori has to say on this subject" is what I would have expected a town Demote to say, as it comes with the implication of "I will wait until all parties have weighed in before casting judgment". A snap decision of "okay I'd be happy to lynch Nitori tomorrow" is not what I would expect a town Demote to make.
You said yourself that opinions need to be given so we can be held responsible for them later. I've already said that a lack of role knowledge is my main reason for being pretty much certain you were scum - not so sure now, with the alternative scenario presented. This was essentially me saying "Cake's target was changed, only Touhou targeted Cake. I think the answer is obvious." You'd line up lynches for 2x Cop results, and that was what I was seeing this as.
This assumes I should take your role as exactly what you have claimed and is already addressed in my response to Mr. Astley.
[...]
Where did I say I was not role speculating? I said it was likely to be fruitless, not that I was not going to do it at all.
If it is bad to speculate, then don't do it. If it is not, don't tell others that it is a bad idea to. Hypocrisy is bad.
The rest of the points, argued well enough, I guess. I'm still suspicious, but I'd rather look towards others first, since there's almost certainly at least one scum lying in the other 5 (being AYB/Xbox/Shikiana/Bel Air/Astley).
Oh, and just a side-note? You mentioned my claim several times, and I'm going to say now that I have not full-claimed. Doing so means I lose my ability completely, and I'd rather that not happen.
2 Ninjas 1 Cup: Xbox's replacement also came after hours and hours of nothing, while Rick's came during/after a Night Phase. It's believable enough for now.
OH GOD SHIKI IS NINJA: ...uhm, what? I'm sure there's a point to that second post, at least, but where is it?
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I'm here, not much new to say, haven't really said anything on the Demo/Toujou role madness since everytime I think I figure something out about it I pretty much just think of something else that just kind of makes me go ??? at my previous thoughts. Though if I had to guess I would probably lean towards Touhou being the scum myself, though I've been trying not to think about it so much since I'm bad with that kidn of WIFOMy madness.
I do have one question for Russia, what alignment would you consider your previous role giving off if someone were to learn of it, would someone who learned of it, think "well that's pretty towny" or is it of an ambiguous nature without the alignment in that it would leave a neutral tell?
I'm thinking I may have a good case, and the answer I get from Russia will have me either considering it really damn solid or just another case to think about depending on the answer, seconding the notion of someone removing the vote from combo for now, we still have plenty of time left in the day and I rather avoid a hammer too soon if possible, even if Combo is flooding the thread. Also, there was no announcement for Astley's replacement since it was during the night period.
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I will confirm that the Astleys' account of thier multi-playership is correct. Astley 1 was replaced during night 1, as it was during the night phase and it's an anon game, I saw no reason to make a fuss out of it. XBOX was then replaced during the day phase, so I had to make an annoucement of it.
Then at the end of day 2, Astley 2 was wanting out and Astley 1 suddenly had free time again, so I let them tag back out. Then the idea of them just tagteaming the account came up, I thought it was funny so I allowed it. This isn't roles and it's not something that I had planned from the beginning, so I think it's only fair to actually clarify. Note I am saying nothing about the alignment of the role or the mason claim or anything else. Just the replacement/multi-player issue.
Bastard modding? All signs point to probably~ But at least everyone now has Word Of Mod on what's up with Rick and Roll.
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Again, said I would post so I will; less has happened than I'd expected, though. First, demotivator, whom are you saying is pretty much confirmed town in this (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100655.html#msg100655)? Me? Soviets? Someone else?
Looking surprisingly flustered there, Touhou. You of all people should know, if what you're saying is true, that the demotivator was also telling the truth about what he saw - and he did so before you made your roleclaim. So what on earth is the logic of this post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100714.html#msg100714)? And when Astley calls you on it, your response is far from reassuring:
Mr. Astley, it's possible Demote is more than just a Bus Driver or Hijacker or whatever, or that scum obtained extra info somewhere along the line (who knows what lolcat could have done Night 1). You're asking me to speculate on scum roles in a role madness game with possible bastard moddery; I don't think this experiment is likely to succeed.
Russia's point about SKs being made unlikely by my/his role is sound, but also precisely the kind of reasoning we've been explicitly warned against - rolemadness bastardmod game, remember. So I wouldn't give it too much weight.
I don't see any reason for Astley/Air to be lying wrt masonry, but I see no need to look for one, because in this game I see unconfirmed mason as pretty much null for determining alignment. Astley has at least explained the silly ragequit a little, and is posting solid reasoning. (Heck, this post is twice in quick succession I'm repeating one of his points - but given how many people are still running with the stupid "no way all three can be town" line, it bears repeating)
Demote was lining up the lynches (though I can see him not realising; wording is everything here) and his pressing of the Hijack is clumsy, but honestly I think Touhou comes off looking worse. Sloppy reasoning from the demotivator can potentially be written off as just that (which still hardly leaves him looking great), but that simply isn't the case for Touhou given previous days.
Rick requests removal of a C-C-C-C vote, which I did consider doing, but no. With selfvote and modvote already on him, a hammer would either reveal a new power we want to know about, or make someone look very suspicious indeed; leaving him on L-1 is fine by me. (Honestly I'm not at all convinced letting the day go on has made things better for town - this mass roleclaim is giving the scum a lot of info, and a lot of it could've probably waited until tomorrow. But whatever)
Bel-air ninja, doesn't look great. Declines to give a concrete view on the big issue, and then rolefishes. But he's claiming to have something solid, and it probably affects me given my relationship with the reds, so I'd better make sure he can speak his piece. ##Unvote.
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This is a trainwreck.
Most truthful thing anyone's said all game.
Alright, so. I have to wonder something.
Does anyone know what this role-swapper or whatever it was did on Night 1? Does anyone think their action may have been misinterpreted or misplaced? I'm curious as to why this appeared today and not yesterday is all. 2g1c wasn't swapped (bit strange to put that effort on someone you've roleblocked), and clearly neither was Milhouse given his investigation on Combo. I hit lolcat, Astley got his recruitment to Bel-Air through, Xbox got the Leather Jacket to Soviet, and Touhou saw it happen. How much is left if this is all true?
Now for the incident which I've dubbed 'Me, De and Nitori'.
Firstly. Demotivational, you've said already that you can't claim, but you get anything useful Night 1?
Second, my own opinion on the matter. I'm not convinced that De is scum trying to get a mislynch on Touhou, because it's too blatant and upfront. Touhou is interesting in that people jumped to lynch her very quickly, when the evidence against her - namely that she targeted me - probably isn't enough to put her ahead of the Astley/BelAir pair. That said, the instant OMGUS accusation on Demotivational is somewhat unnerving, but hopefully another set of Night actions should help clear this matter up. In other words I'm unconvinced as to either of them and we have an obvscum to lynch anyway, so...
Bel-Air/Astley claim I'm still not convinced by. Bel-Air popping up to say 'Hey, I exist and still have no opinions except for a good case I'm going to say absolutely nothing about!' is making him flare up further than his partner does. Even if they are masons, Bel-Air is still worthy of a lynch from where I'm standing.
Also, I'm holding AYB to his promise to produce content.
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First, demotivator, whom are you saying is pretty much confirmed town in this (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100655.html#msg100655)? Me? Soviets? Someone else?
Russia.
And this section makes no sense to me:
I don't see any reason for Astley/Air to be lying wrt masonry, but I see no need to look for one, because in this game I see unconfirmed mason as pretty much null for determining alignment. Astley has at least explained the silly ragequit a little, and is posting solid reasoning. (Heck, this post is twice in quick succession I'm repeating one of his points - but given how many people are still running with the stupid "no way all three can be town" line, it bears repeating)
The "no way all three can be town" refers to me/Touhou/Cake generally, methinks.
Ninja: Night 1? No information, if that's what you mean. I also have no idea if my ability went through as planned or not, but I've reason to believe it did.
AYB's content is due around now, methinks? Or, more, around an hour ago. Shame, since I'm leaving now. If there are any specific questions, I'll be around for another 10-20 minutes to answer those, but that's all I'll do for now - I'm half-dead today and past experience has taught me that this is never a good time to post in Mafia.
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The "no way all three can be town" refers to me/Touhou/Cake generally, methinks.
Yes it does. The part of my post where I'm repeating one of Astley's points - the second paragraph - is talking about them. The part of my post I'm talking about in the brackets is not the part immediately before the brackets. Sorry if it's unclear.
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Relax guys. I've been busy, but I have time to post, and if I do, of course it's going to have actual content. Considering how often I complain about other people and lack of content, last thing I want to do is be a hypocrite. Anyway. C-C-C-Combo Breaker is obvious. And annoying. And needs to hang. We all know that.
First, Astley/Air: them being unconfirmed masons makes me really wonder why they put any trust in each other at all. Not to mention I have no clue what thing managed to get Astley to correctly recruit Air N1, as he does not say. Of the two, BelAir looks notably worse yesterday just from a pure vote record/argument perspective: the hop from Breaker to Soviet looks notably awful, blaming your mason buddy on it is awful considering he's unconfirmed, and he continues being lackluster today. Astley, on the other hand...at the end of D2, what was that? As a general rule, scum wouldn't pull such a stunt, it makes no sense, especially when they could just, y'know, nightkill Advice Dog instead, with a greater success rate than trying to convince town of a conspiracy, and while most of the points are just "what", similarly to Soviet, they don't make sense motivationally from a scum perspective - leading me to think that if only one of the two are scum, it's more likely to be BelAir than Astley.
Touhou is interesting in that people jumped to lynch her very quickly, when the evidence against her - namely that she targeted me - probably isn't enough to put her ahead of the Astley/BelAir pair.
Yes, I do find this interesting, especially considering the 2g1canalysis: it is possible for all three of them to be town (after a bit of thought, I retract my earlier opinion about this being an impossibility), and someone else to be the bus driver, and this would all go through. Keep in mind that we are dealing with role madness here. Anyway, my take on the whole situation:
Demotivational Poster - almost certainly not scum. A 1/1 trade would make more sense if it wasn't for the fact that scum is already down two people. As it stands, losing a third is either game over for them, or bringing them down to one remaining scum - either way, not worth it for only a single townie mislynch, at best. Cake - definetly not scum, for the reasons of giving scum two nightkills being absolutely broken game-balance-wise. Town or Third-Party. We can straighten the latter point out after we're certain that all the scum are gone. Until then, not worth looking at. Touhou - not sure. Before Demote's claim, I didn't have anything on Touhou in terms of scumminess - content generally checks out, seems to agree with what I thought, seems to agree with what other confirmed townies (Advice Dog, Yo Dawg, etc) thought, and voted for Breaker and stayed on there even when he could have potentially switched to Soviet without *too* much trouble. Given this, I don't think he's worth lynching until at least another set of night actions, at minimum.
Keep in mind that we are dealing with insanity and role madness here. Someone being tracked/watched does not push them ahead in terms of scumminess over people who have actually been blatantly scummy in the thread, such as BelAir. Apart from BelAir, my main target for potential scumminess is actually the XBox 360: terrible reasoning yesterday, trying to start a case on Demotivational Poster when there are <12 hours left in the day, for terrible reasoning at that, pressure vote nonsense (not only are pressure votes bad and scummy (see Combo Breaker for instance), but they also don't work if you tell everyone that they're a pressure vote) terrible reasoning for voting Soviet Russia, etc. Really, the case on him is about as huge as...well, an XBox.
The roleswapper thing worries me a bit. Sadly the original model XBox is gone, and thus we cannot figure out why he tried to use his original power on Soviet Russia. Who knows.
Incidentally, the only person right now confirmed to me is Soviet Russia, for being a competing wagon to a scum train + multiple other reasons that I have discussed to death by now. ShikiShana and 2g1c are looking pretty good as well. Touhou looks fine apart from the aberrant tracker/watcher/etc rolemadness that transpired last night. Demote...is somewhat cleared due to role and risk/reward. Everyone else looks various shades of bad, really.
Anyway, time to go reread over Rick Astley and see if I can glean anything interesting out of the switch between the two players. Bleh.
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Aw man. It occured to me in the time my internet was down that I have yet to present a case today! I should rectify that, so here goes. I'll start with the case on me.
From the beginning.
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HAMMER STOP TALKING!
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C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER
Damn, how could I have been blind (http://crazy-jokes.com/pictures/blind-stickup.jpg) enough to miss that. You're right, PMs lock stuff in.
That said... as much as I hate to say it, there's one thing we both missed. Namely, what Demo's said has been confirmed. I mean, regardless of Touhou's status, Touhou has stated that they did visit !Cake. And that's all that Demo claimed. There is something I'm looking for there, but it's really more curiosity about Touhou at this point than about Demo.
The more I think on it... I don't think it rules him out as scum, though it does make things more, complicated. There's also a few things about how their stories mix and match that seem odd. Yes, I know my language is vague, but, I can't really get any clearer right now, also for a few reasons.
There's also the option that both of them are telling the truth, which... also leads us to WIFOM about whether or not !Cake is incomprehensible third party, or there's a busser completely unrelated to the two of them.
Hmm... Touhou? Here's a question for you. If you say that Demo is a busser, then how did he know you targetted Cake? In fact, how does his knowing you did something you confirmed you did make him look bad?
Damn, how could I have been blind (http://crazy-jokes.com/pictures/blind-stickup.jpg) enough to miss that. You're right, PMs lock stuff in.
That said... as much as I hate to say it, there's one thing we both missed. Namely, what Demo's said has been confirmed. I mean, regardless of Touhou's status, Touhou has stated that they did visit !Cake. And that's all that Demo claimed. There is something I'm looking for there, but it's really more curiosity about Touhou at this point than about Demo.
The more I think on it... I don't think it rules him out as scum, though it does make things more, complicated. There's also a few things about how their stories mix and match that seem odd. Yes, I know my language is vague, but, I can't really get any clearer right now, also for a few reasons.
There's also the option that both of them are telling the truth, which... also leads us to WIFOM about whether or not !Cake is incomprehensible third party, or there's a busser completely unrelated to the two of them.
Hmm... Touhou? Here's a question for you. If you say that Demo is a busser, then how did he know you targetted Cake? In fact, how does his knowing you did something you confirmed you did make him look bad?
Damn, how could I have been blind (http://crazy-jokes.com/pictures/blind-stickup.jpg) enough to miss that. You're right, PMs lock stuff in.
That said... as much as I hate to say it, there's one thing we both missed. Namely, what Demo's said has been confirmed. I mean, regardless of Touhou's status, Touhou has stated that they did visit !Cake. And that's all that Demo claimed. There is something I'm looking for there, but it's really more curiosity about Touhou at this point than about Demo.
The more I think on it... I don't think it rules him out as scum, though it does make things more, complicated. There's also a few things about how their stories mix and match that seem odd. Yes, I know my language is vague, but, I can't really get any clearer right now, also for a few reasons.
There's also the option that both of them are telling the truth, which... also leads us to WIFOM about whether or not !Cake is incomprehensible third party, or there's a busser completely unrelated to the two of them.
Hmm... Touhou? Here's a question for you. If you say that Demo is a busser, then how did he know you targetted Cake? In fact, how does his knowing you did something you confirmed you did make him look bad?
Damn, how could I have been blind (http://crazy-jokes.com/pictures/blind-stickup.jpg) enough to miss that. You're right, PMs lock stuff in.
That said... as much as I hate to say it, there's one thing we both missed. Namely, what Demo's said has been confirmed. I mean, regardless of Touhou's status, Touhou has stated that they did visit !Cake. And that's all that Demo claimed. There is something I'm looking for there, but it's really more curiosity about Touhou at this point than about Demo.
The more I think on it... I don't think it rules him out as scum, though it does make things more, complicated. There's also a few things about how their stories mix and match that seem odd. Yes, I know my language is vague, but, I can't really get any clearer right now, also for a few reasons.
There's also the option that both of them are telling the truth, which... also leads us to WIFOM about whether or not !Cake is incomprehensible third party, or there's a busser completely unrelated to the two of them.
Hmm... Touhou? Here's a question for you. If you say that Demo is a busser, then how did he know you targetted Cake? In fact, how does his knowing you did something you confirmed you did make him look bad?
##UNVOTE: COMBO BREAKER
Damn, how could I have been blind (http://crazy-jokes.com/pictures/blind-stickup.jpg) enough to miss that. You're right, PMs lock stuff in.
That said... as much as I hate to say it, there's one thing we both missed. Namely, what Demo's said has been confirmed. I mean, regardless of Touhou's status, Touhou has stated that they did visit !Cake. And that's all that Demo claimed. There is something I'm looking for there, but it's really more curiosity about Touhou at this point than about Demo.
The more I think on it... I don't think it rules him out as scum, though it does make things more, complicated. There's also a few things about how their stories mix and match that seem odd. Yes, I know my language is vague, but, I can't really get any clearer right now, also for a few reasons.
There's also the option that both of them are telling the truth, which... also leads us to WIFOM about whether or not !Cake is incomprehensible third party, or there's a busser completely unrelated to the two of them.
Hmm... Touhou? Here's a question for you. If you say that Demo is a busser, then how did he know you targetted Cake? In fact, how does his knowing you did something you confirmed you did make him look bad?
Damn, how could I have been blind (http://crazy-jokes.com/pictures/blind-stickup.jpg) enough to miss that. You're right, PMs lock stuff in.
That said... as much as I hate to say it, there's one thing we both missed. Namely, what Demo's said has been confirmed. I mean, regardless of Touhou's status, Touhou has stated that they did visit !Cake. And that's all that Demo claimed. There is something I'm looking for there, but it's really more curiosity about Touhou at this point than about Demo.
The more I think on it... I don't think it rules him out as scum, though it does make things more, complicated. There's also a few things about how their stories mix and match that seem odd. Yes, I know my language is vague, but, I can't really get any clearer right now, also for a few reasons.
There's also the option that both of them are telling the truth, which... also leads us to WIFOM about whether or not !Cake is incomprehensible third party, or there's a busser completely unrelated to the two of them.
Hmm... Touhou? Here's a question for you. If you say that Demo is a busser, then how did he know you targetted Cake? In fact, how does his knowing you did something you confirmed you did make him look bad?
Damn, how could I have been blind (http://crazy-jokes.com/pictures/blind-stickup.jpg) enough to miss that. You're right, PMs lock stuff in.
That said... as much as I hate to say it, there's one thing we both missed. Namely, what Demo's said has been confirmed. I mean, regardless of Touhou's status, Touhou has stated that they did visit !Cake. And that's all that Demo claimed. There is something I'm looking for there, but it's really more curiosity about Touhou at this point than about Demo.
The more I think on it... I don't think it rules him out as scum, though it does make things more, complicated. There's also a few things about how their stories mix and match that seem odd. Yes, I know my language is vague, but, I can't really get any clearer right now, also for a few reasons.
There's also the option that both of them are telling the truth, which... also leads us to WIFOM about whether or not !Cake is incomprehensible third party, or there's a busser completely unrelated to the two of them.
Hmm... Touhou? Here's a question for you. If you say that Demo is a busser, then how did he know you targetted Cake? In fact, how does his knowing you did something you confirmed you did make him look bad?
C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER
Whoever said I would get tired of this was nuts. Like this guy:
But we know he's totally:
WHY DID YOU WATCH THE VIG?
HOW MANY LICKS DOES IT TAKE TO GET TO THE CENTER OF A TOOTSIE POP?
WHO IS ERIC CARTMAN'S FATHER?
WHAT WOULD JESUS DO?
These questions and more are what we try to answer here.
Tonight's episode:
More posts? Only more to C-C-C-COMBO BREAK, my dear!
By the way, Killer Instinct sux. You should have offered...
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C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!!!!!!!!
So am I town yet?
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I think Combo's post count must have trebled today or something.
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(http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/3812/nitoriblush.png)
I'd assumed that much, yeah. I'm not attacking you for time restraints either, I'm attacking you for saying "At a quick glance, flips change nothing" when it was blindingly obvious that they would and did. If you'd simply said "No time to mention them now, more later" or something, I'd not think it was a problem.
Except they did not, unless you count me changing my mind from "hmm, Cake might be third party" to "yeah Cake's third party". Cake's night action did not make me think him any more scum, and scummy players were the point of my post. It seemed obvious to me at the time that other people were going to question Cake about Momizi's death anyway, so I didn't bother putting off leaving to mention it myself.
Second point was me suddenly going from third to first without much (if any) reasoning throughout the day.
You said yourself that opinions need to be given so we can be held responsible for them later. I've already said that a lack of role knowledge is my main reason for being pretty much certain you were scum - not so sure now, with the alternative scenario presented. This was essentially me saying "Cake's target was changed, only Touhou targeted Cake. I think the answer is obvious." You'd line up lynches for 2x Cop results, and that was what I was seeing this as.
You were certain I was scum based on a lack of knowledge? What. Please tell me I'm reading this wrong.
You were also apparently certain that Cake's target was changed. What made you so sure that Cake wasn't a lying third party that you were willing to assume I was scum without my input?
If it is bad to speculate, then don't do it. If it is not, don't tell others that it is a bad idea to. Hypocrisy is bad.
What is this I don't even. Stop putting words in my mouth. "Fruitless" does not equate to "bad". I said the exercise was likely to be fruitless because role madness + bastard mod = any number of possible unorthodox combinations leading to what happened last night. This does not say doing so is bad, only that it is unlikely to yield the exact truth.
Box: Just as one example of what could have happened last night, I think it's possible Demote is some sort of Watcher/Redirector combination. We've already been shown a Rolecop/Roleblocker, and this is role madness, so why not?
I generally question the idea of being paranoid about the Breaker being at L-1 when a mod vote and his own vote were contributing to the count, but whatever.
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You know what musical doesn't get enough credit?
Damn Yankees.
[GLORIA]
Who came along in a puff of smoke
[ALL]
Shoeless Joe From Hannibal Mo.
[GLORIA]
Strong as the heart of a mighty Oak
[ALL]
Shoeless Joe From Hannibal Mo.
Lucky are we to be having him
[GLORIA]
Shoeless Joe From Hannibal Mo.
[ALL]
Just when the future was lookin' grim
[GLORIA]
Shoeless Joe From Hannibal Mo.
[ALL]
Came a long long way to be
With us today
[GLORIA]
With arms of steel like Hercules
[BOYS]
Yeow!
[GLORIA]
Feet as fleet as Mercury's
[BOYS]
Yeah!
[GLORIA]
He'll fight
For us, do right for us
[ALL]
He'll be a beacon light for us
He's Shoeless Joe From Hannibal Mo.
Go, go, go, go, go, go
[GLORIA]
Go like a bat out-a you know where
[ALL]
Shoeless Joe From Hannibal Mo.
Strike at the foe, let 'em know you're there
[ALL]
Shoeless Joe From Hannibal Mo!
Shoeless Joe From Hannibal Mo!
Shoeless Joe From Hannibal Mo!
[GLORIA]
Came upon the scene
[ALL]
As fresh as Listerine
[GLORIA]
He sneezed and blew away a calf
His laughter ripped a barn in half
[ALL]
Go, go, go, go, Joe
[GLORIA]
Like sevens come, elevens come
[ALL]
Like manna from the heavens come!
It's Shoeless Joe From Hannibal Mo.
Go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go,
Go like a bat out-a you know where
[GLORIA]
Shoeless Joe From M.O.
Strike at the foe
Let 'em know you're there
[ALL]
Shoeless Joe from M.O.
Look out, look out, look out, look out for Shoeless Joe
[JOE]
The barefoot boy
From Hannibal Moe!
[BOYS]
Joe, Joe, Joe, Joe, Joe, Joe, Joe, Joe!
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Box: Just as one example of what could have happened last night, I think it's possible Demote is some sort of Watcher/Redirector combination. We've already been shown a Rolecop/Roleblocker, and this is role madness, so why not?
But he targeted you last night, as shown by the fact he knew you targeted me. Wouldn't that therefore mean you got redirected?
Gah, this role madness is giving me a headache.
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EBWOP: Gah, I meant that he saw you target me after watching me. I'm getting lost in all these roles.
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EBWOP2: Oh wait, never mind. I see. Disregard me, I'm getting lost.
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(http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/7122/nitorihmm.png)
Mmm.
In thinking about the questions Demote has been asking - specifically, his most recent post - I am beginning to wonder about his scumminess myself. Some of the questions he asked there, as well as some of the phrasing, I see things in there I tend to do myself when pursuing something hard. (For whatever that's worth to the rest of you.) And Watcher/Redirector, while possible, is...I realize I'm putting a lot of stock into role madness with that explanation.
Not to mention Shana's explanation for how suicidal this would be on his part.
Stupid gut. I think I may have been a little hasty in jumping to conclusions myself on this one. At the very least, it lessens my issue with Demote doing the same thing a bit, as I can appreciate how easy and attractive it is. An outside force may be responsible for this after all.
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Derp
Derp
Derp
Derp
Derp
Derp
Derp
Derp
Derp
Derp
Derp Derp
Derp
Derp
Derp Derp
Derp
Derp Derp
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Yeah, I was gonna say, your speculation was not likely. (http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/05/14/weekinreview/14basicsb.600.jpg) Moreover, you're ignoring pretty simple solutions in favor of something which is very off the wall. At least the other combo role, while powerful, also came with a way for us to tell where it's being used. And nothing seems to be coming without a drawback of some kind.
Mostly agreed with Town !Cake and Demo at this point, thanks to the crazy that the Jacket brings in (and which I think counts as bastard modding all by itself, thanks).
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(http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/1690/3595731872209245822co.gif)(http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/1690/3595731872209245822co.gif)(http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/1690/3595731872209245822co.gif)(http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/1690/3595731872209245822co.gif)(http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/1690/3595731872209245822co.gif)(http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/1690/3595731872209245822co.gif)
NOTE: Mod approved edit for sake of thread.
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I consider that the highest form of flattery, Rick.
Thank you and you're welcome.
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No more walls of animated images, please. It's making the topic hard to load.
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Will do. Sorry about that.
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(http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/3559/nitoricut.jpg)
Pretty much, Mr. Astley. In addition to misgivings about Demote's argument, after I presented that theory, I looked back on it myself and went "...wow, is that really the basis I've chosen?" I guess it took me writing it out to see how non-functional it really was.
I guess this was an instance of "measure once, cut twice."
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Aww. C'mon, town! I <3 you!
(http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/3460/ronaldmcdonald.jpg)
But I guess I'd better
(http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/3958/ronaldmcdonaldjumping.jpg)
before I get
(http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/3734/ronaldmcdonaldcross.jpg)
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In Soviet Russia, quote have panties stolen by curly brace!
I do have one question for Russia, what alignment would you consider your previous role giving off if someone were to learn of it, would someone who learned of it, think "well that's pretty towny" or is it of an ambiguous nature without the alignment in that it would leave a neutral tell?
Ees depend on what information person find. Role name by itself sound useful, perhaps kneejerk townie, perhaps not. Actual effect ambiguous. Probably neutral on whole.
Must confess, Soviet Socialist Republic not see anything of note in wheel spinning on role claims when next set of night actions sure to change everything anyway. Ees more actual questions, or can we lynch capitalist pigdog now?
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Speaking of fast food in mafias...
(http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/1940/1257920537984cb.jpg)
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Yeah. Bel Air want to present some food for thought (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uZr3JWYdy8&feature=related) first so that he has something in Day 3.
Aside from that, I think everything we needed is done.
Also, I vaguely recall someone asking me why we trust each other. I... honestly can't tell you why Bel Air trusts me, because his reasoning baffles me. But, like I said before, the way he's been talking in Mason chat has me going with a town feeling. And, yeah, as I said before, I don't blame anyone for not deciding to just take me at my word, since even if you could trust me, I could just be wrong.
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Let's check in with our old friend, Advice Dog again!
(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/815/advicedogrr.jpg)
Seriously town. Lets get this over with so I can
(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/7140/sleepykitty3.jpg)
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Thanks for the clarification Russia.
The reason I asked was I felt depending on the answer, I could probably strengthen my case, but at the same time I didn't want to present my case and then ask for an answer that could then be skewed to fit it.
Right now, I am highly considering Xbox to be a scum, if we look at his day 2 actions, we see him starting the day off with a vote on Russia with a seeming lackluster reason, with what basically strikes me as trying to ride on his train. When we consider that he swapped powers with Russia, this just kind of doesn't sit right with me. He finally takes his vote off Russia after the train begins to die somewhat, and places it somewhere not useful at the time. And then Russia is Roleblocked that very night.
The reason I asked Russia about the ambiguity of his power is if he had said town, I would have been certain the box was up to something when he considered Russia bad after stealing his power.
So anyways, instead of being certain, I get to mostly just put this into the gut feeling category instead, but I'm thinking that after Xbox took Russia's power, he first attempted to join in a Russia lynch as a way to prevent a buddy from having a power stolen, when that seemed to go downhill, Russia was instead knowingly roleblocked to prevent him from getting combo's power. I also don't think I've seen him comment about whatever happened about his initial suspicions on Russia, I may be missing a post somewhere, but if I'm not, this also does not sit well with me. I know this is a little far into conjecture, but I just cannot for the life of me think of any other reason why scum would roleblock Russia and pseudo confirm him.
That's pretty much what I had to say, willing to go ahead and end, though I'll wait for a few others to give the go ahead as well.
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(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/9923/peanutsw.gif)
Swing and a miss, blockhead.
(http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/6867/julia404.gif)
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Right... Bel-Air's said his piece, and there ain't a damn thing I can think of left to do today, so...
Begone monster! You do not belong in this world! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ssh71hePR8Q&NR=1)
##Vote: C-C-C-Combo Breaker
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Votecount
COMBO BREAKER (4): Cake, Russia, XBOX, COMBO BREAKER, Touhou, O R'LYEH, Russia, Rick Astley
Rick Astley (1): O R'LYEH
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Roughly 39 hours remain in Day 3.
COMBO BREAKER is at L-2!
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(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/3862/footballe.jpg)
Anta blockhead!
(http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/8514/furikuri47.jpg)
Haruko is not amused.
But he is.
(http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/6450/facelj.png)
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Ah, Soviets see what Bel Air mean now. Unfortunately, нет, full details of original role definitely ambiguous enough to not dissuade Xbox (if town) from continuing to vote Soviets afterwards. Scum choosing to roleblock of communist state perhaps point towards Xbox scumminess as said, but point perhaps also counteracted by question of "If Xbox capitalist, why claim to be original jacket at all, instead of say nothing and eventual fakeclaim to spread more confusion in town about Marxist doctrine?"
Also apparently in Soviet Russia, Asuka grab Shinji's balls?
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(http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/8320/1252166032887.png)
I am likewise ready to close up the 'shop for the night, as I doubt Demote is going to say anything today to make me change my current opinion on him for better or worse.
Comrade, I don't really think claiming the jacket is a general town tell in the box's case, as I can see him staring his buddy's lynch in the face and deciding claiming what he actually did to be his best bet for survival down the line, as opposed to constructing a lie and then getting trapped in the wreckage when it malfunctions and breaks downs. Is there something specific to Bel Air's proposal that makes you suggest this?
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нет, not exactly. Just saying it is foolish to call Xbox scummy for on such circumstantial evidence. Deliberately pointing out folly by presenting weak townie evidence too. You have gotten point successfully, ees week either way.
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(http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/4904/nitorileaf.jpg)
Ah, yes, I do see what you were going for now. Thanks.
Shop's all cleaned and locked up for the night. Time for me to make like a tree and...well, you know.
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Bel-air makes precisely the argument I was expecting. To tell the truth (and this won't make me look any better, but it is what happened) I made my first replacement post based on what I'd been thinking while watching the game, before I'd thought through the results of my first night. When I reread though "my" N1 action, my initial reaction was a panicked "I'm going after the wrong guy", but then after a few seconds' thought I realized this wasn't so. The soviet's original role is one that I would conventionally think of as townie, and in a normal game I would have thought as much. But this isn't a normal game, and it would be perfectly useful as a scum role too, so while it shifts the odds a little, it's not enough to outweigh scummy behavior, which is what I thought I was seeing from Russia; I concluded that if he was worth going after without the role info, he was worth going after with it.
(And knowing a little bit about him might mean I learnt something from the voting where he was a candidate, though needless to say day 2 didn't really go the way I'd expected)
Point about wanting the Soviets dead so they didn't have the jacket power works both ways - yes if I were scum and him town it would make sense for me to want him dead so town didn't have it, but as town (and thinking, at least at the time, that soviet was probably scum) I didn't and don't want that power in scum hands either. Frankly I think scum has more reason to leave someone with that ability alive, at least until it becomes public, for the sheer amount of chaos it could cause.
As to what happened to my original suspicions: they're still there, but they've been eclipsed by more pressing concerns. The truthful roleclaim is enough to get me off their case for the moment, and I have the impression (though this will need to be checked by a reread) that they've been posting more frequent and substantially better content today. I haven't forgotten about them, and will look more, though I'm not sure I'll be the most objective of judges.
Touhou ninja. I don't like to argue along these lines as it's very WIFOMy, but had I ignored the claim and the soviets be lynched, that would leave me with the soviet's original role (which is, while inconclusive, on the townie end of neutral, and once claimed is easily verifiable.) On the other hand soviet would have at least one more chance to pass the jacket on to a townie who could verify it, and could claim his original role to stop me using it, so... yeah, I guess that proves nothing.
Doubleninja, meh.
##Vote: Combo Breaker. L-1. Will be gone for around five hours, and have no objections to his being hammered during that time.
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##VOTE: COMBO BREAKER
I get the last laugh after all.
It took 6 to kill me, but I trolled by the thousands!
I guess this is...
(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/1088/theendw.jpg)
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(http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/10/13/128999482918258087.jpg)
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(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/8141/advicedogha.jpg)
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I'm fully aware that being disruptive and chaotic is scum's job in this game, but when the image spam becomes enough to break the forums or cause rendering issues in the browser, it's over the line. I don't expect to see this occur again, but consider it a warning.
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"So guy what do you think about-"
"C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!"
"Think about what? Sorry I couldn't hear y-"
"C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!"
"Ugh, ignore him. I was tyring to talk abo-"
"C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!"
"JUST SHUT UP ALREADY!" *AXE*
COMBO BREAKER, Scum Combo Number 5, has been axed in the face!
Final Votecount
COMBO BREAKER (4): Cake, Russia, XBOX, COMBO BREAKER, Touhou, O R'LYEH, Russia, Rick Astley, XBOX, COMBO BREAKER
Rick Astley (1): O R'LYEH
It is now Night 3, please send in all night actions.
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One night, a townie was minding his own business when he was stopped and questioned by KGB. Being a good comrade, townie answered all questions of KGB, but they were not actually KBG but American pig-dog spies disguised as comrades. They wished to remind townie that in Soviet Russia, scum still kills you.
Such is life in mafia.
In Soviet Russia, Town Ninja Trainee, has died in service to glorious motherland.
It is now day 4. With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
As of 4PM PST/7PM EST(about 5 minutes ago), day 4 has 72 hours remaining.
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(http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/148/nitorismile.jpg)
This printout came at a bad time for me, as I'm in the middle of a project in the workshop. I'll leave these quick notes for all of you and then get back to work. A more comprehensive set of notes should come in a few hours.
I tracked Bel Air last night, since he was my #1 suspect again after the stupid fight I had with Demote. I was told he didn't do anything. On a snap judgment, this makes me feel better about him, though with my project presentation coming first and an incomplete set of notes regarding scum's action redirection, I'm not 100% convinced by any means. Still, I will likely look over Mr. Astley and the Box when I get back.
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...No, seriously. Doing everything wrong. (http://www.ibankcoin.com/peanut_gallery/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/facepalm-demotivational-poster-1222303270.jpg)
I was just about to head off, but figured I'd at least post here to comment on night actions.
I'll say now that I'm a JoaT of sorts - I don't have access to all actions immediately, instead having one each night. My reasoning to assume the target went through as planned N1 is because the kill on Lolcats went through as planned - I roleblocked Lolcat N1. N2, watched Cake as already explained. N3... Well, I tried to Track Touhou to confirm their claim. Needless to say, NOT AS PLANNED. (http://cdn2.knowyourmeme.com/i/2256/original/NOT_AS_PLANNED.PNG?1242242744) So, I know 2g1c's target! This doesn't help me in the slightest. (If enough people want me to, I can say what the result was so that 2g1c can confirm.)
I still think Rick is worse than Bel Air, for reasoning presented at the start of D3. Their claims don't change anything here, since the Mason applies to both and the 2 players mean nothing to scumminess. That said, I want to read over Xbox. Being suspicious to begin with and being one of the few players with no role information to confirm/disprove means I really need to check over him to see what I can find.
But that'll wait for a good 12 hours or so until I've next got some free time. Sorry~
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Oh, and just a side-note? You mentioned my claim several times, and I'm going to say now that I have not full-claimed. Doing so means I lose my ability completely, and I'd rather that not happen.
Aaaaaaaaaaand despite saying this yesterday, you apparently have no problem claiming today?
Also...wait. You're saying you ended up tracking 2g1c? As in another role misdirection? Clarify this when you get back.
Shouldn't need to say this, but just in case I'll mention that I didn't bother targeting anyone last night. Bel-Air not doing anything clears him slightly, but in the end he and Rick are still the two biggest targets we have in terms of scuminess IMO. He could have just not acted last night.
Want to wait for any other night actions to chime in before anything else.
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(http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/6461/nitoriea.jpg)
Okay, I've done enough maintainence work on my exteeeending aaaaarms, so I'll spend some time here.
Kneejerk reaction to Cake's observation is that Demote still hasn't fully claimed somehow, as that would be a serious miscalculation on his part to the point that it could get someone ejected from the Gensokyo Academy of Science. I'll let Demote share his notes before I share any more of mine than that, though.
Assuming Demote to be town, his claim (or what looks to be his claim, anyway) of being redirected all but confirms Bel Air as town to me, as Bel Air being scum would require three scum remaining (Bel Air doing nothing + whoever messed with Demote + whoever killed Russia) or a couple of other really crazy theories.
I would generally advise against sharing whoever the girls targeted last night unless you can catch someone lying with the information or if the girls give you their permission.
Opinions on Mr. Astley vs. the Box will follow shortly.
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(http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/6367/nitoristare.jpg)
A quick exteeeended fiiiiistshake at Momizi for getting that infernal Erasure song stuck in my head. It's playing for me as I type this.
Since the main cases on both Mr. Astley and the Box had already been mostly made (for me, anyway) as of my post at the beginning of Day 3, I went back and briefly checked the log files containing the circumstances of how the Breaker vs. Russia trains competed. I came across some quite important data in my search that I had forgotten: the Box was voting for Russia before his Demote vote. While the vote itself was for pretty bad reasons and was pretty bad in and of itself for veering away from both trains, it did further skew the numbers in Russia's favor. This makes me lean toward Box being the less likely of the two to be scum.
Day 3 is hard to glean information from (despite repeated picking efforts), but I have a couple of observations nonetheless. The box looks like he's trying to reason through every possibility, as he was one of the first to publicly consider the idea that both Demote and myself were town here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100745.html#msg100745). This even happened before Demote and myself considered it. Not sure how likely scum would be to push the idea that both of us are town when it was pretty popular to think one of us lying outside of a desire to make that very statement. Mr. Astley asks some decent questions of both sides, though a couple of his Demote questions could potentially be veiled rolefishing. Basically a bit of WIFOM and not too much else for both sides. Regardless, nothing happened on Day 3 that was of the magnitude of the above observation about Box moving off of Russia.
##Vote: Rick Astley
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Roll here, filling in for Rick until he can get back. Also, just a quick note (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99973.html#msg99973) to any of you left wondering about masons or not. (Breadcrumbing is always the way to go!)
Not much to say sing right now, as the day seems to have barely started and we've got maybe... half the living around? Gonna skip the show and go straight to the interview, here.
Demo: That's a lot of "JUST AS PLANNED" there. Why was the lolkill part of your PLANs? Also, why did you target lolcat N1 anyway?
TOUHOULOL: How does the Box veering away from both trains make him any less scummy? Not going to excuse my actions, but we know that the two trains were Town and Scum. He was on Town early, and veered away from keeping his vote on Town and didn't aim it at scum instead. Would this not point to a more null tell?
If you need me, I'll be on and off periodically for the next... hour? About that.
Anyway, would very much like to hear from the 'Box itself, and ask that people not try to excuse anybody else. Going "they probably did it for this reason" just gives them a shield to hide behind, and if they did do it for that reason, then they can say it themselves. (I doubt anybody's going to be quicklynched when we're not even at LYLO, and scum team is probably down to 2)
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First, sorry for accidentally letting C-C-C-C selfhammer. I don't think it's done us much harm, but it wasn't intended.
I initially ignored the scum actions part of Bel-Air's case against me, but having though about it I realised it doesn't even make sense. Leaving aside the question of whether scum would even want to block the leather jacket, if I were scum they would already have known what the leather jacket did, which surely makes it rather a waste of their combination rolecop/roleblocker, no?
Ninja trainee, huh. Which means the jacket is still out there, in the hands of someone the commie (presumably) found suspicious, but we don't have commie alive to confirm/deny their previous role. Urgh.
Touhou commenting. Glad as I am to be under less suspicion, I must point out it's actually rick himself who first makes that point (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100728.html#msg100728). He didn't spell it out fully, and people didn't seem to be paying any attention (which is why I posted), but it's not fair for me to take credit for the original insight.
In regard to the hijack her[?]self, I... much as I want to trust her she's still by no means in the clear. As the last claimant of the triangle, she took the least risk in any claim; stripping away all the hilarious wrong logic, we're left with: demotivator sees touhou targetting cake. To which touhou responds by claiming... to have been tracker, and to have seen exactly what everyone knows already happened. (Not even to have seen cake targetting C-C-C-C, which would at least be committing on the existence of the busdriver). For day 1, claims to have seen me targetting the soviet - which at that point, I've just claimed. And follows this up by telling us for night 3 that a claimed mason didn't target anyone. I'm really hoping 2g1c can clear this up, but right now touhou's by no means in the clear from rolestuff - and the attack on demotivator, with poor logic, slight edge of hysteria, and then attempt to withdraw it entirely as gracefully as possible, could easily be a smokescreen - it's certainly thrown up enough dust.
While I think of it, demotivate: I'm sure you realise this, but I think you'd better not say any more until the girls themselves have spoken their part.
WRT hijack's reasoning about three scum, I don't think the busdriver is confirmed scum yet, and as I've said before I think the N2 swap was pretty much the towniest swap possible - assuming that combo was going to roleblock cake makes perfect sense, and I can't think of a better scumtarget than the dog. (Side thought: why was zerg zerged? But I haven't time to consider that and it probably doesn't lead anywhere). That said, haven't yet thought through why a town busdriver might be swapping 2g1c <-> hijack.
Rick: I had the extra role info on the soviet, which I wanted time to talk about before he got lynched. Having him go to L-1, at which point we could both claim and pick up the pieces, and town as a whole could make an informed judgement on his alignment, would've been fine. Remember, I thought him scummy even given the roleinfo, but the roleinfo is more on the town side than the scum side, so I would feel uncomfortable letting town lynch him without having heard the info. Having him just pip C to the post at the last minute would be unfortunate (and while the thought crossed my mind that it would be good for me personally, leaving me with his original townie-sounding role and no reason for anyone to suspect it hadn't been there all along, it wasn't the right thing to do). I still didn't see the C-C-C-C case at that point, and resolved not to vote his way either - but I thought I smelled something with the demotivator. (I wasn't at that point aware that 12 hours was seen as such a late stage).
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WRT hijack's reasoning about three scum, I don't think the busdriver is confirmed scum yet, and as I've said before I think the N2 swap was pretty much the towniest swap possible - assuming that combo was going to roleblock cake makes perfect sense, and I can't think of a better scumtarget than the dog.
Non sequitur.
The rest of that paragraph talks about NK speculation, which is all kinds of hate. Incidentally, I'm not sure why people are finding XBox 360 less scummy for veering away from both cases, considering both his timing and reasoning he looks horrible for both cases.
More analysis in a bit, after I've finished this one goddamned assignment. Augh.
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(http://imgur.com/g3KRo.jpg) (http://imgur.com/g3KRo.jpg) "Okay, few things.
"One: Demotivator, please do share who we targeted last night. As a comment? Even knowing this won't clear you; scum might very well know my night targeting pattern, if they do have my roleinfo. On the other hand if you're scum and fuck this up... welp! No pressure, though, of course- I will openly say that I'm not sure how scum could be caught in a lie by a tracker, buuuuuuuuuuut uh. (This responds to Touhou unless she was thinking about me, which I vaguely acknowledge the validity of before shaking my head)
"Two!: [REDACTED FOR IRRELEVANCY]
"Tres: Hmhmhmhm. Yes, XBox, that was the precise reasoning under which I wanted to invoke Touhou to claim first. The result... well. I don't know, but if Air is scum, so surely is Touhou; note that this logic does not apply in reverse. Regardless, stepping away from that for a bit.
"Shi: I am... vaguely tempted to request whoever has the jackets to claim having them, but I'm decently sure I know who has it. Doesn't clear them, either. Woulda been nice to know what Ninja Trainee was but meh, later. Tangentially, XBox is not cleared town, but we know if he is scum he is the killer. A basic logical jump, don't care to elaborate right now. This can actually be said of a few people, I think, but that's a breakdown to make later.
"101: Mmm. Presuming another role misdirection, scum not acting makes no sense: targetswapper+killer. Unsure what to make of myself being swapped with Touhou: at best a no tell.
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Demotivator claims to know 2g1c's action? As in, you were told that your target changed from trying to track Touhou?
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Non sequitur.
Huh? "I can't think of a better scumtarget than the dog." is a key part of the logic behind "I don't think the busdriver is confirmed scum yet". No non sequitur.
2g1c... may be referring to something true, which would be evidence (to me, who knows what I did last night) in their favor, if I'm understanding them right, but their statement is just too fuzzy to get anywhere. Will await the detailed breakdown with interest.
Can't spend long now, will be able to maybe make a brief post in 4 hours, and maybe another one in 10 hours or so, but I won't be back and reading thoroughly until tomorrow morning GMT.
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Irrelevant again, outside of being one of my favourite Demotes ever. Also, sorry for WoT. (http://i4.demotywatory.com/p/1/292.jpg)
Demotivator claims to know 2g1c's action? As in, you were told that your target changed from trying to track Touhou?
I targeted Touhou during the night. The PM came back telling me who 2g1c targeted.
Aaaaaaaaaaand despite saying this yesterday, you apparently have no problem claiming today?
Also...wait. You're saying you ended up tracking 2g1c? As in another role misdirection? Clarify this when you get back.
Yeah, I've said all night actions so far. I haven't (hadn't) said what the limitations are on the role, so I have (had) technically not full-claimed, but close enough. And yes, another role misdirection.
"One: Demotivator, please do share who we targeted last night.
Nobody. 2g1c didn't target anyone.
"Shi: I am... vaguely tempted to request whoever has the jackets to claim having them, but I'm decently sure I know who has it. Doesn't clear them, either. Woulda been nice to know what Ninja Trainee was but meh, later.
I... doubt I'm who you're thinking, honestly, so... yeah, Jacket here. Time now for the full-claim - every time somebody referred to me as a Ninja in their posts, it added to the count. If I got enough in a day, I got a night action given to me. The first day, I got 2, then 3, then 2 ninjas. Then I lost the power and Soviet died. If I'd hinted at being a ninja in any way, I lost my ability, since I'd no longer be hidden like ninja. (I have, as it goes, tried mentioning every damn ninja post that's remotely relevant in an aim to encourage others to
Demo: That's a lot of "JUST AS PLANNED" there. Why was the lolkill part of your PLANs? Also, why did you target lolcat N1 anyway?
No, it's the exact opposite. The point is that last night didn't go as planned, as my target was changed. And Lolcat was one of two who stood out to me as actively lurking D1, and it was just a coinflip between them and AYB for me. I had no clue they were going to die, but having only one roleblock announced during D2 is my reason for assuming my target wasn't changed.
On today's posts, I'm seeing Xbox's logic as being utterly horrible. It's surrounded by WIFOM: swapping Combo for Dog would make much, MUCH more sense for scum - anyone could've tracked Combo to discover who was presumably Town, and Advice Dog was not likely to have any role alongside the Insomniac one. It makes some sense as a Town switch, but with confirmed Town in play, scum could have wanted to kill one of them... I'm going in WIFOMy circles now. Past that, there's some more WIFOM on the NK of Zerg (reason to kill Zerg? He was Town. Done.) and... I think this is enough to push him ahead of Rick for me.
##Vote: HUEG LIEK XBOX
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(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/9769/nitorimunch.jpg)
In response to Mr. Astley and the android, the point I was trying to make is that Box's vote change pushed a flipped scum even further ahead than a flipped town, albeit in a mini-Goldberg-Machine fashion. I tried to think of why Scum Box would have chosen to move to Demote instead of staying on Russia (in the hopes of keeping Russia close to the Breaker) or moving to the Breaker (in the hopes of gaining credit when the Breaker flipped), and while I have come up with a couple of conjectures, like Box being able to claim he didn't want to lynch Russia anymore while still not pushing the Breaker too far ahead, I don't think they're likely enough to push him back ahead of Mr. Astley for me. Possible, yes, but not probable.
Box: Ah, thank you for finding that note about Mr. Astley also seemingly entertaining the idea of both Demote and myself being town. I admit I missed it last night, due to the wording. This doesn't do a whole lot to change my opinions, however, aside from bring you down slightly. I must disagree about a Bus Driver (and other redirecting roles) potentially being town roles, as they are pretty anti-town inherently. They exist primarily to cause confusion, which is very much a scum tool.
Ninja'd by Demote (...apologies for using this term now), who provides another decent reason why the redirection is very unlikely to be town in origin, as well as a reasonable explanation for what happened to him. I admit I speculated about that possibility a bit since Ninja Trainee sounds JoaTy enough. Probably taboo to go there, but both my role name and Advice Dog's role name have matched their actual roles somewhat, so.
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Demote's explanation makes sense. I'll give him the Ninja Trainee explanation.
360...let's see. No content, no proper opinions beyond 'Touhou isn't clear', and a whole ton of setup speculation/role talk? He calls out Touhou for...tracking the people who had been suspicious on previous days rather than doing something different on a whim? Yes, it's possible she's misleading us, but if that's the case she's playing pretty well because I can't find much fault with what she says.
On the other hand, there's still that awkward D2 unvote which I don't know about. Nitori makes the case better than I could - scum would either want to get Soviet lynched or get cred for lynching Combo, but Xbox did neither. Besides, the actions he's made with the leather jacket seem pretty poor in terms of scum when the role seems almost designed to work along with that roleblocker/rolecop combo. Randomly swapping with Soviet N1 doesn't seem very valid. It just...doesn't make sense as scum to me, which is irritating because his behaviour is anti-Town at best.
Bel-Air. Feel like contributing? Still think the mason pair are worth following up on - Touhou's result lightens the pressure on Bel-Air, but Rick isn't doing very well himself either. Last minute LYNCH DOG DAMMIT at the end of D2, supposedly convincing Bel-Air to move from Russia...still enough to be worth suspecting even in the face of all this role madness.
##Vote: Rick Astley
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How did I not think to use this when I full-claimed? Considering Russia's death and the Jacket... (http://i3.demotywatory.com/p/3/1212.jpg)
Rick isn't doing very well himself either. Last minute LYNCH DOG DAMMIT at the end of D2
My only problem with this logic is that Xbox did the exact same thing earlier in the day, using the same line of logic to attack Touhou as well. That said, I'd not be surprised if the two of them (Xbox/Rick) were our remaining scum, since the only other one who's still mildly suspicious to me is Shikiana.
...or not. AYB still exists. Forgot about that. Still, I'm not willing to automatically assume Astley is scum, as my instinct was to go "Bastard Mod? Unconfirmed Masons? SCUM GET!" But... since Villainous Mafia, I'm inclined to think the bastard modding is to make us think that. In other words, assuming there's scum on the mason team is as much setup speculation as assuming there isn't, and Xbox has been more scummy to me throughout.
AYB, I know you've had little time, but please try to give us something to work with when you get a chance. I've been mildly suspicious of you from the start for being low profile, and that's going to be working heavily against you very soon. Content or gtfo.
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Demo: With the leather jacket (http://www.robertshermansfit.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Leather_Jacket.jpg) in the game, it's impossible for the mod to actually confirm roles as being Town or not. Even if the role had been given to a Townie, there's still a chance that by the time I found the other mason that it would belong to a mafioso. Heck, nothing stating that we'll still both be masons tomorrow. So, yeah, confirmations by the mod with that power in play are impossible.
As for who I'm suspecting, I've spent most of the day so far picking through posts, and I've got a good feeling about All Your Base (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qItugh-fFgg) that I'm finishing up the case on right now.
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I keep forgetting that Base and Shiki exist, to be honest. AYB did even up the Combo/Soviet wagons in order to even up the scum, but I found this on D2:
I have more trust in the lynch than I do in a role which should not be highly trusted and could be misdirected/blocked by scum
Strangely accurate choice of words, given that at that point no-one had declared having their actions switched around.
Shiki bought into the 'Touhou = obvscum' idea that came out yesterday and really didn't offer much beyond role speculation. He 'enters reconsideration mode' when it's pointed out there's more to it, and...has offered nothing beyond 'wait, Demo, WHAT happened to you?'. How long could it take you to reconsider, exactly?
Honestly, I'm not exactly enchanted with either lurker, but AYB's placing on the Combo wagon puts him slightly ahead.
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EBWOP: In terms of towniness, just so I don't get misinterpreted.
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Alright, I'm going to go straight out and assume a 4 scum game. Given the role madness and the extra killing power, it feels right. Note also that the following is invalid in a 5 scum game, as it relies on our knowledge of what each scum member has done, and a 5 scum game leaves us with a hole in our knowledge that scum (http://www.virginmedia.com/images/1controversial-gal-scum.jpg) can sneak through.
So, there's still nine memes standing. Let's start crossing off ones which have to be town.
2g1c - Was Roleblocked, and so far only two people have claimed roleblocking ability. One of whom will be covered later, and the other is Combo Breaker, who is scum. The other, Demo, stated he did have roleblocking Night 1, but he hit someone else. Which suggests she was targetted by Combo. And the attached Rolecop isn't something I'd peg as being wasted on scum. So, she's cleared.
!Cake - While I can see scum being given a killing power like this, I can't see them trying to peg their own people with it twice.
Now we get to the trickier ones that require 4 scum to work.
Touhou and Demo.
What's that? How have we gone from one must be scum to both must be town? Pretty simple actually, they confirm each other. See, the main reason I trust Demo here is because he brought up Touhou acting on Cake on his own without prompting. And Touhou confirmed it. So what, you ask. And the answer is simple, if there's only 4 scum, we know what the three living scum were doing Night 2.
Namely, Killing Zerg, bussing Advice Dog and Combo Breaker, and blocking/copping the Ruskies.
There's no room in that for knowing who was paying attention to !Cake, and that was one hell of a gamble to take since we know they didn't have a chance to Rolecop Touhou before then. So, they confirm each other, which also means that if one is Town, they're both Town, and if one's Scum, then they are both Scum.
This in turn means that Bel-Air has to be Town. After all, either Touhou is Town, and therefore telling the truth. Or Touhou is Scum, and therefore must be paired with Demo.
This covers five of the nine remaining people, which means our suspect list should look like this.
AYB
Rick & Roll
Shiki is OMG HAWT
X-BOX 360
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This is surprisingly good and quite catchy, also relevant. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE6emvdmg-M&fmt=18)
Relax guys already, seriously (FWIW, I find it very amusing that you guys poked me D3 to post something and then when I did...it was totally ignored. Way 2 go guize.). FWIW, barring my profs going completely insane in terms of workload, I should have more time for this game now, and as a result be a bit less low-profile.
@XBox 360: The reason I said that it does not follow is that: Cake targeted Breaker, and Dog got hit. Thus we are assuming a swap of Breaker and Dog. Actually, the part that doesn't follow is the earlier bit. A Dog/Breaker swap makes sense as Dog was likely to get NK'd due to playing extremely pro-Townie, and hitting Breaker with scum's own NK would have been remarkably fitting. However, the earlier logic doesn't hold: if Breaker was going to block Cake, then swapping him with Dog would still have his action...being aimed at Cake, and thus doing nothing. However, you do bring up an interesting point in that the bus driver could still be a well-meaning townie who screwed up badly. I'm unconvinced. In any order, rolespeculation in a role madness game is a wonderful way to lead us to ruin, so yeah.
Beyond that, Demote makes a good case on XBox. Pretty willing to vote him, he's been horrible since his replacement in multiple ways. Even today his cases seem to be too based on WIFOM than anything else. That being said, I haven't had proper time to devote to this game until now, and thus want to do a proper read over D2 with the current info we now have in mind, before voting.
As for Astley: for someone complaining about XBox using excessive WIFOM, you do a good job at it yourself, Demote: there is no way to tell if unconfirmed masons somehow makes it more likely for one of them to be scum than for both to be town, and short of reading the mod's mind (which, due to the mod's status as an Eldritch Horror, is considered inadviseable), trying to somehow clear or implicate Astley on how past unconfirmed mason pairs have played out is utter lunacy. Equally well I could state that it's MORE likely for one of them to be scum because past mason pairs haven't had this occur, and town currently is in a certain frame of mind when running into unconfirmed mason pairs, thus making it more likely for them to clear both on just their mason status. Either argument is stupid due to it being a classical example of WIFOM, and thus should be disregarded.
Onto Astley's actual scumminess: the problem I have with BelAir not going anywhere last night is that I was by far more suspecting *BelAir* to be the scum if there was one among the Astley/BelAir pair. BelAir was (and still is, sadly) universally horrible, whereas Astley is bad but in weird ways that make no sense for a scum to play as, similar to Soviet Russia D1/D2. The idiotic case on Advice Dog along with suicidiality at the end of D2? Just...what. But from a paranoid townie, it makes sense. It makes utterly no sense for a scum to make this type of argument, as nobody would have paid any attention to it, he would have (rightly) gotten slammed for making such a stupid and implausible argument, and if scum really wanted to off Advice Dog, then they have, y'know, a nightkill. That being said, clearing him on the basis of one post is premature. However, a lot of his posts seem to have a similar issue.
I am curious as to what his case on me is. Doing a reread, then posting observations and voting. Not really suspicious of ShikiShana for now. Touhou, Demote and Cake are low-priority right now due to (somewhat) lack of overt scumminess and roles checking out for the most part (though Demote: why are you claiming any responsibility for the N1 NK? It seems to be pretty clearly the case that it was Cake that actually hit lolcat, and the roleblock wouldn't have done anything terribly useful due to the fact that roleblocking a dead player is...somewhat worthless. But yeah.), and BelAir is slightly cleared, again, due to roles. I want to over this again in more detail, clearing people solely on role is a terrible idea in a role madness game imho, but Astley and XBox 360 both look so awful right about now in the face of the Breaker lynch that I'm fairly confident that there is at least one scum between the two, and I suspect XBox 360 far more strongly than I do Rick Astley.
Ninja Astley: FWIW, clearing people solely on role is a terrible idea for a role madness setup. However, it is valid for today (in fact I agree with it). That being said, how about some actual cases on the four "suspects" that you present?
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On the other hand, there's still that awkward D2 unvote which I don't know about. Nitori makes the case better than I could - scum would either want to get Soviet lynched or get cred for lynching Combo, but Xbox did neither. Besides, the actions he's made with the leather jacket seem pretty poor in terms of scum when the role seems almost designed to work along with that roleblocker/rolecop combo. Randomly swapping with Soviet N1 doesn't seem very valid. It just...doesn't make sense as scum to me, which is irritating because his behaviour is anti-Town at best.
*sigh*. Other than this being quite plausible as noobscum flailing, I fail to see how this clears him somehow: if scum either saw that there was a good possibility that Soviet was going to lynched regardless of the actions of one player, then it makes sense for XBox to be off-wagon. More likely, though, I think XBox realised just how terrible his vote and the reasons for it actually were, and hastily tried to move off, but didn't want to help get Breaker lynched, and thus decided to form a case on a third player. It's not something a well-playing scum would do, but unlike Astley's end-of-D2 behaviour w.r.t Advice Dog, it's not something that's a completely 100%-terrible move for a scum to make.
As for his N1 action, what do you propose a better move by a scum having said Leather Jacket power would be on N1? Though it is interesting: it appears quite tailor-made (*snicker*) to fit alongside a rolecop. Definetly something worthy of note.
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As for his N1 action, what do you propose a better move by a scum having said Leather Jacket power would be on N1?
Besides 'hold onto it until the rolecop finds a good role, then target him as they get hit'?
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In light of one of those brilliant parodies that generally got overlooked. (http://i40.tinypic.com/fk1r7p.jpg) And the one that failed earlier, in light of Jacket -> Russia Death. (http://i43.tinypic.com/fcp34h.jpg)
Either argument is stupid due to it being a classical example of WIFOM, and thus should be disregarded.
This was aimed at me? Uhh, wasn't that exactly what I was saying already? >_> (I didn't, however, consider Rick's point of the Jacket changing that anyway.)
Demote: why are you claiming any responsibility for the N1 NK? It seems to be pretty clearly the case that it was Cake that actually hit lolcat, and the roleblock wouldn't have done anything terribly useful due to the fact that roleblocking a dead player is...somewhat worthless. But yeah.
Uhm. Re-read, please. (http://i4.demotywatory.com/p/3/1133.jpg) I didn't claim to have anything to do with the NK on Lolcat, just that I roleblocked them on the same night. And they weren't dead until the end of that night, so it would have done something. >_>
What's that? How have we gone from one must be scum to both must be town? Pretty simple actually, they confirm each other. See, the main reason I trust Demo here is because he brought up Touhou acting on Cake on his own without prompting. And Touhou confirmed it. So what, you ask. And the answer is simple, if there's only 4 scum, we know what the three living scum were doing Night 2.
Namely, Killing Zerg, bussing Advice Dog and Combo Breaker, and blocking/copping the Ruskies.
There's no room in that for knowing who was paying attention to !Cake, and that was one hell of a gamble to take since we know they didn't have a chance to Rolecop Touhou before then. So, they confirm each other, which also means that if one is Town, they're both Town, and if one's Scum, then they are both Scum.
Except Touhou isn't confirmed yet, actually. We still aren't certain if it's a bus driver or a hijacker. Touhou's just been cleared on the roles checking in and having damn good content throughout.
As AYB says, Rick's latest post is hideously reporter with no actual opinions - it's simply a summary of the role madness that's been 'confirmed' and nothing else.
Looking at the four left, I have real trouble seeing Shikiana as Mafia from the content that has been there, especially considering how bad the others have been in comparison. Current order is Rick/Xbox > AYB > Shiki, with Rick and Xbox seemingly changing every time I freaking post. <_< Still, hmmm. Think I can safely change votes, puts Rick at L-2.
##Unvote, Vote: Rick Astley
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Just hold on a second, guys. Rick didn't forget about the case, and is working on i (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101050.html#msg101050)t as we speak.
...I'd comment on some stuff, but I figure Rick's better suited to that. So, again, just hold on for a bit.
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Uhm. Re-read, please. (http://i4.demotywatory.com/p/3/1133.jpg) I didn't claim to have anything to do with the NK on Lolcat, just that I roleblocked them on the same night. And they weren't dead until the end of that night, so it would have done something. >_>
My reasoning to assume the target went through as planned N1 is because the kill on Lolcats went through as planned - I roleblocked Lolcat N1.
Nope, this much is at least valid. Anyway, it doesn't look as if you're claiming responsibility, but it still is worded extremely awkwardly, is my issue. Why would the roleblock be at all relevant if they had accepted the cheezburger and thus died?
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Also: Demo, you have a point about Touhou. Probably doesn't change much besides Touhou itself, but things shall be double-checked.
And I shall now give way to Rick, who is almost done.
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Yeah, just looking up relevant links (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100801.html#msg100801) for that post. Should be done soon... I hope. Day 3 is a bitch and a half to pick through right now.
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What he said. (http://i43.tinypic.com/148hfkh.jpg)
Uhm. Re-read, please. (http://i4.demotywatory.com/p/3/1133.jpg) I didn't claim to have anything to do with the NK on Lolcat, just that I roleblocked them on the same night. And they weren't dead until the end of that night, so it would have done something. >_>
My reasoning to assume the target went through as planned N1 is because the kill on Lolcats went through as planned - I roleblocked Lolcat N1.
Nope, this much is at least valid. Anyway, it doesn't look as if you're claiming responsibility, but it still is worded extremely awkwardly, is my issue. Why would the roleblock be at all relevant if they had accepted the cheezburger and thus died?
Right. Cake claimed the kill on Lolcat. If Lolcat had been switched, then somebody else would've been killed, meaning my roleblock must've gone through as intended.
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Hopefully this won't be too long. But it will be a two parter. My system is bitching about having too many windows open at a time, and at least one post is going to require a lot of digging into.
Anyways, with that preamble done, let's crack this out.
##Vote: All Your Base
Alright, let's start off by being nice and listing the best points in his favor I can spot. Namely, this (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100486.html#msg100486) and this. (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100462.html#msg100462)
Credit where it's due, he tied things between Combo Breaker and Russia right after Roll's push got Russia into the lead. And that's his best post in the whole game so far. Possibly excepting the one he just ninja'd me with.
But, the thing is, it comes right after the push on Russia, with 2g1c and XBox both still looking like they favor the soviets, as well as with both of them not having their votes on anything important. ie. if there was a tie break, odds were good the Breaker of Combos wouldn't be the one getting KOed. But that's just why I'm slightly cynical about his vote (as opposed to Touhou, and even Demotivator despite his changing back. They both started momentum for Combo Breaker and against Russia with their swings. AYB didn't do that).
However, the big thing is, AYB barely commits to anything day one. His opinions are muted, and most of his posts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0) are wordy recaps of what's been going on with a bit of 'I think' fluff tacked on. That's most of what you need to know for Day 1 AYB.
So, let's go over Day 2, shall we? Because, it's the only day where he's been contributing until now (and why yes, I am including that wonderful post Shik... I mean, you made on Day 3)
Here's (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.175.html) as good a place to start as any. Paragraph 1 is fluff about Lolcats that can concludes there's nothing to conclude. Awesome! Paragraph 2 can likewise be summed up as "Here's what Russia's done, and LAL on Day 2 is bad." Hell, let's ignore the LAL argument to go with, you recapped all of that in order to just have that to tell us? Yeesh.
The rest of this is also interesting. Tells !Cake and Trotski they need to elaborate on stuff, but not what. Also tosses in Shiki in the people who need to clarify despite the only other mention being a defense.
Post 2 looks fine, and most of it is original, but Post #3 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.225.html) involves him basically restating the Soviet's actions all over again, and coming to no conclusion he hasn't come to before. ie. a complete waste of four paragraphs.
Post #4 I already linked to, and is, bar none, his best post so far, so not really going to waste time there, since Day 3 is the more interesting one now.
Day 3, all of it. (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.225.html)
So, he starts off with a promise of content, sweet! Namely, asking for info that hadn't been given yet. (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100722.html#msg100722) Followed by a lot of things which he presents as his own, but which has been presented by other people. The one I most closely associate with his words being Shiki is hawt.
I'd have a whole lot of links for you to back this up with, but apparently I'm now at L-1, (L-2 before Roll forgetting our Role Restriction in an answer to you guys.) so getting this out before we're killed by a ninja.
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(http://imgur.com/gWVbz.jpg) (http://imgur.com/gWVbz.jpg) "Demotivator has my night target correct; I in fact did do nothing during the night."
"And I believe either Demotive or XBox questioned the Air/Hijack comment. The logic's simple; if Bel Air is scum, he had to have acted (swapper/killer). Touhou claims to have seen him do nothing, which would be a lie, thus Touhou would also be scum. However, if Touhou is scum, he could say anything he wanted about Bel Air - including "confirming" the mason claim. Thus, Hijack can be scum without Air being scum, but Air cannot be scum without Hijack also being scum.
"Demotive, you're correct; I didn't think you'd be Ninja Trainee, which actually really sours a few things - I was guessing Shikiana, for a few reasons which are now somewhat irrelevant.
"I will return in a bit, but I... am... uncertain on mainly Shikiana and Touhou as it stands. I'll enumerate upon returning."
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Alright, this gives me some time to actually think about Demo said, namely. Touhou and Bel Air (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99621.html#msg99621). Sadly, I think they're both uncovered now, since if Touhou is a hijacker, then this means that they could easily pull off what they did Night 3 and have it fit with facts.
I'm... not inclined to buy it for reasons stated earlier. Touhou got onto Combo Breaker at a time when it helped push the train to prominance, and then stayed on. And Bel Air, again, Mason Chat gives me a good feeling.
But, yeah. As much as I hoped for it, operation get half off game off the table has fallen to pieces.
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L-1 this early in the day is bad.
##Unvote: Rick
In other news, why has Bel-Air still said nothing all game?
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EBWOP: All day, even. Dammit it's late over here.
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@Astley: honestly, this case seems about as bad as the one on Advice Dog. Yes, I had no solid opinions D1. It's D1. Come on. As for D3, what issues do you have? There was a scum that needed to hang, I see no issues with coming to that set of conclusions regarding Cake/Touhou/Demote, and...what else do you want?
Incidentally, the reason post #3 detailing Soviet's actions exists is because I was specifically asked by Advice Dog as to why I came to my conclusion on Soviet Russia. Hence, that post.
And could you please link to the actual posts in the future, not just to a given page of the game? Especially when it links to a page on which the post referenced is: A) non-obvious, B) no posts by me exist on said page.
Seriously.
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Bugger if I know why he hasn't been saying anything. He was around last night, early this morning. Honestly, I suspect the main reason he posted the whole Mason thing was so that he could try and coast on that. Which... argh, would make me more suspicious of him if I didn't know a) who he was (now it's more of a null tell), and b) have Touhou's report, which would mean Touhou has to be a Hijacker (har, har, Gate), and c) he seems like he's actually thinking about this stuff as a Townie, and I don't like to think he could be fooling me that badly.
Since I've been asked for opinions. Shiki... seemed pretty decent to me until I went over the list of who's left. That's left her looking worse. Still need to give her a more thorough once over, but AYB seemed more pressing. XBox (http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/30/t1489720-my-xobox-live-gamerscore-stats-wrong/), my last readthrough actually was pinging Bad Town until I, again, looked at who was available. If I had to rate people right now, I'd actually go
AYB > Shiki > XBox > Touhou = Bel Air
at this point. With #2 and 3 being pretty volatile at the moment.
Aside from that, I've got a nasty headache coming down, and need to let all this stuff from the game actually get digested so, I'm gonna be sporadic until tomorrow. Which means, answering questions and making points on recent/ongoing stuff. But likely no deep research until then.
Ninja by AYB.
All of the links should have led to posts by you. If not, then C+P failures, and more validation of my usual Quoting schtick. Regardless, the windows I had your posts open in are now closed so my comp will actually run.
As for your day 3 stuff, a decent amount of it was cribbed from Shiki. Which is my main concern. Another telling part was where you asked for info that had already been given.
As for Day 1, you're actually going to try and claim it's ok to not have solid opinions when you also pulled that BS on >9k about his "claiming" that the target of the Day 1 lynch matters less than the circumstances of it?
Note: the claim is in brackets because >9k never actually made such a claim. He responded to someone who did, arguing against such a position. Naturally, the reason for AYB's vote on >9k is because of holding this position he argued against.
Which reminds me of something else that I've noticed about you, AYB. You have this neat little habit of saying things about people which looks true if you only look at the surface, but turns out to be a subtle twisting or ignoring what happened before if your claim/statement actually gets looked at. Hell, your >9k vote is a textbook example of that.
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What is a meme? A miserable pile of cats! But enough talk - have at you!
Votecount
Rick Astley (3): Touhou Hijacker, The Cake is a Lie, Demotivator, O R'LYEH?!
HUEG LIKE XBOX (0): Demotivator
All Your Base (1): Rick Astley
With 9 memes, it takes 5 clicks to win the free iPod. So Mr. Astley was indeed at -1 vote from being given up and hurt before. There are 68 hours left.
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Also,
But, the thing is, it comes right after the push on Russia, with 2g1c and XBox both still looking like they favor the soviets, as well as with both of them not having their votes on anything important. ie. if there was a tie break, odds were good the Breaker of Combos wouldn't be the one getting KOed. But that's just why I'm slightly cynical about his vote (as opposed to Touhou, and even Demotivator despite his changing back. They both started momentum for Combo Breaker and against Russia with their swings. AYB didn't do that).
Hm? What? So there was a time when it looked as if the Soviets were going to be lynched over Breaker, by your own admission a good chance of this occuring, and thus me voting for Breaker thus tying him with Russia instead of trying to seek what would have been at that point a still quite attainable Russia lynch is a totally meaningless vote? Apparently, in Astley-land, swingvotes are meaningless, even when they are for a scum over a town, at a time when the townie could still likely have gotten lynched!
Ninja Astley:
As for your day 3 stuff, a decent amount of it was cribbed from Shiki. Which is my main concern. Another telling part was where you asked for info that had already been given.
A) Please link this, this is the link I was complaining about that failed, B) D3 featured a shitton of trolling from Breaker, with lovely side-effects of browser lag. There is a possibility that info I asked could have been answered earlier and I had just missed it.
As for the stuff cribbed from Shiki, I posted late in the day phase, and happened to have the same opinions on most things. What's your point? There wasn't much to discuss D3 anyway beyond the Touhou/Cake/Demote night action debacle, as the end action of the day (lynching Breaker) was already decided before the day even began.
As for Day 1, you're actually going to try and claim it's ok to not have solid opinions when you also pulled that BS on >9k about his "claiming" that the target of the Day 1 lynch matters less than the circumstances of it?
Key word highlighted. I did have opinions D1, this is evident if you like, read my posts. They are going to be less valid than ones on subsequent days, because it's D1 and there is far less to go off of.
Note: the claim is in brackets because >9k never actually made such a claim. He responded to someone who did, arguing against such a position. Naturally, the reason for AYB's vote on >9k is because of holding this position he argued against.
Misrep: >9K was arguing about No Lynch being bad, in his third paragraph responding to Russia. I was referring to his final paragraph, where >9K states that we should just get a lynch and NK going, and cares more about the target than circumstances. Also, there was way more at issue with >9K in that post, namely his self-contradiction re: Zerg Rush, and his voting for a lurker for no good reason after reasoning why this was bad was discussed to death between several people.
tl;dr it is fine to have opinions which are not particularly strong on D1 because nobody's generally is: let's take a look at your D1 posts: jokevote, vote on Russia, iffy reasoning on Russia, followed by disappearance for the entire day, followed by a self-proclaimed worthless vote for Milhouse because "something you can't state right now is rubbing you the wrong way about him", followed by hammering >9K because of "town demand" (an awful, awful, awful reason to place a hammering vote). You have opinions that are actually solid and backed up by relevant posts on: Soviet Russia. With a couple scattered ones in your third post of the day. Everything else either doesn't exist, or could equally well not exist anyway. Whatever you do have that's relevant has some amount of scumminess to it. In fact, going over most people's D1 postings, you'd find similar things, though I doubt anyone is as egregiously bad as you and XBox.
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(http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/7594/nitoriwoozy.png)
Oog. I think I might have had too many Pepsi Ice Cucumbers over the last 24 hours. Not feeling too well. I certainly don't trust myself in the workshop in this condition, though I expect it to pass soon enough. In the meantime, let's see what new notes I can wrap my head around.
I'll admit Shana and CATS have mostly snuck past my sensors all game, given their lower post volume, but I remember agreeing with their notes for the most part as they presented them, so neither have had higher priority than Mr. Astley or the Box. A proper reread of both will have to come at a later time - likely tomorrow, though we'll see how I'm doing in a few hours. Based on how the end of Day 2 unfolded I like CATS a bit more than Shana; Shana agreed that the Breaker looked bad but still wanted people to vote for the Russian, while CATS voted for the Breaker at a time when voting momentum was starting to swing back the Russian's way.
CATS, I will not claim the strange Day 2 vote for Demote clears the Box by any stretch, but I believe it puts him at a lower level than Mr. Astley.
In studying the current argument between CATS and Mr. Astley, I don't entirely get Mr. Astley's argument about the end of Day 2. I particularly don't get why he says the girls looked like they favored the Russian (presumably you mean in terms of who to vote for) when they had just posted that they were "uncertain" between the two trains. We also don't know what Cake would have done had he been there, and the Russian was also obviously going to vote in self-defense, so it seems a stretch to say the odds of a Russian lynch were "good". I also have a hard time holding lack of Day 3 content against anyone, really, since it was basically role speculation + predetermined lynch. It's not nothing, but I don't think it's as important as you seem to think it is.
I would like to see that promised reread + vote from CATS, however. Hopefully you haven't forgotten about it in defending yourself from Mr. Astley.
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(http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/6144/nitoridococ.jpg)
Actually feeling better now, as hoped! I have some project deadlines tomorrow morning, so I want to get this out now since I'm in a condition to do it.
This game is terrible for rereads, because I find myself stopping on every page to re-read flavor I found amusing at the time and still find amusing now.
Something very notable surfaced upon my re-read of Day 1: this post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99792.html#msg99792). Let me bring the important part to the microscope.
"There is never anything wrong with voting for someone who is not posting" is a goddamn lie out of him. On day one it's a stupid cheap trick that allows you to assume a default position on the grounds of some myth that everyone who doesn't post is scum. LaL is not effective on day one on it's lonesome. It can be effective if one observes that what someone has posted is suboptimal, but alone? Too many potential mitigating factors. Never mind that the scenario for these kind of votes generally goes like that
-Player A: "Player B isn't posting! VOTE"
-Player B: "posts anything"
-Player A: "Right, Player B has posted, so I can drop this now."
The reason it can be dropped so easily is because there was no basis in the first place.
So no, you aren't allowed to escape on that. Assume lurkers do not exist at the moment, and talk/vote for other people who are doing things. LaL can be instituted later. ##Unvote, ##Vote: 9000
This scenario Shana describes is exactly what the Breaker did on Day 2. Shana agreed that the Breaker looked bad and acknowledged the Breaker's switch to the Russian (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100412.html#msg100412), but she did not cite her Day 1 scenario, her vote still sat on the Russian, and she even expressed agitation over people not voting for him. Shana, your explanation of why the lurker pressure vote is useless and bad is correct. So why did you not switch your vote to the Breaker for it?
This inspired me to read through the rest of Day 2's Shana/Breaker interaction. They seem to pick at each other a few times throughout the day but it's never anything serious or powerful. Examples can be found here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100158.html#msg100158) (and in the post right after it) and here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100258.html#msg100258). This could very easily be a distancing tactic on their part, looking like they are interacting meaningfully when they really aren't.
I can't believe I didn't see that lurker vote thing earlier. This is enough to push her ahead of Mr. Astley and the Box. ##Unvote, ##Vote: OH GOD SHANA IS HOT
This new hypothesis has distracted me from my research into CATS, so I am presenting these findings for the academic community to read over and consider while going back over him.
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Touhou: I really, really didn't like the way Russia was putting pressure onto lurkers. I am entirely cognizant of the fact that lurkers are often scum, but felt his reasoning was quite flawed as I pointed out a few times.
Right now, my thoughts have returned to Touhou being likely scum owing mainly to his claim and role shenanigans, as he has claimed a themed role tied to her character name, which is incongruent with the rest of the flipped roles (and claimed roles, and my own rolename, for that matter.) BUT OH NO META??!! well actually yes that is part of it. More relevant is continuing to play the rolegame; note that his tracker target today was Bel-Air, who is a mason, who very likely does not have another role that would cause him to, um, go anywhere unless he's actually scum on the kill, thus enabling Touhou to pretty much dodge needing to guess results whilst looking smart about it to boot.
The rest of his investigations, as I believe someone pointed out, were called only after the results were already publically known; thus his investigative role has.. provided us nothing, unlike demotivators, which is... more nonstandard and appropriate for this game so far, unlikely the relatively ordinary tracker.)
##JUSTIFIED GODLY VACUUM: Touhou
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(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/7458/nitorialoof.jpg)
If nothing else, CATS's penchant for infrequent posting makes the process of going through his notes much quicker.
While CATS's posts are mostly content, they do have bits of reporteriness to them, more than I remembered. There is also a lot of uncertainty from him: "not sure" is a more common phrase in his posts than I'd like it to be. Strangely, it sometimes boards trains of thought that actually do reach a station. This is more prevalent in his earlier notes than his later notes, though, so I guess some of that can be chalked up to less information. Day 1 is Day 1 and reads decently to me anyway, and on the whole I think his Day 2 is fairly strong, especially punctuated by the Breaker vote. He's not perfect, but I would place him at the bottom of my four suspect list.
Ninja'd by a Shana OMGUS founded entirely in rolegaming and...flavor meta, or something. Wow. I've already said I tracked Bel Air because he was my #1 suspect last night: I felt my role was better spent trying to hunt scum than to be used in self-defense, and if I had caught Bel Air doing something nasty it would have accomplished the latter anyway. I disagree that the result has provided us nothing, as Bel Air has now effectively been removed from people's suspicion lists, unless they believe he and I are the remaining scum.
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Okay. Today's suspectlist has basically been significantly reduced due to roles, and I've already specified as to how I don't really find much fault with ShikiShana so far, so it basically boils down to Astley and The Box. First, Astley:
D1 play has already been discussed. D2...opens with some back-and-forth arguing with 2g1c, settles on a Soviet vote after a bit. While the mudslinging accusation was a bit over-the-top, I think he was the only person who had anything approaching a valid case on Soviet D2 (mainly due to the obvious case of Soviet persisting in voting him even after it was clarified the reason for Soviet voting Astley was actually based off of a misread of one of Astley's posts (which, in Soviet's defence, can be awfully cryptic at times)). Directing the Vig is...honestly not that valid of a charge, considering the vig can, y'know, just ignore the advice, not to mention that vig'ing Breaker would have been the obvious thing to do for a Town vig. The Advice Dog Nonsense-and-Asshattery(TM) near the end of D2 is beyond fucking terrible, but...hm. I had previously pegged it as being not actually scummy due to just how patently stupid it is for a scum to do it, but there are definetly shades of trying to shove a Soviet lynch through at any cost, and suddenly it goes from "Astley writing a stupid case on Dog for no good reason" to "Astley trying to shove through a Soviet lynch, and needing to first discredit Dog before doing this". I'm not convinced on this interpretation, though. Hm. Hmm. Hmmmmm.
Nothing much to say about his D3 play, beyond the fact that I think that prior to today, there was absolutely no reason to trust BelAir as much as he did, considering that you two are unconfirmed masons and BelAir's D2 play was probably the most utterly terrible play out of everyone here.
Today's post is similarly..."what", in the sense that the case makes no sense, and appears to be written assuming my guilt first and then trying to find some evidence for this claim, instead of attempting to find evidence on me to support me being scum or town. At the same time, for similar reasons to end-of-D2 Advice Dog, this case is one that makes absolutely zero sense for a scum to push right now, for the most part.
tl;dr scummy, but still not the top suspect. Enough completely bizarre shit there that makes me think he's more likely to be town, for similar reasons as to why I found Soviet Russia townie despite the (on the surface) terrible play.
Anyway, now it's time for dissecting XBox 360, and the case on him is quite huge...like an XBox!
D1 he's nonexistent, whatever, D1, etc. D2 the vote from Breaker on him doesn't say anything about him really, because it reads as if Breaker fully intended to move it as soon as XBox started posting...which actually looks quite terrible for the 'box. Furthermore, the interaction between Breaker and XBox is...decidedly baffling, to say the least. His replacement's opening post is awful, voting Russia for absolutely asinine reasons, and actually using Too Townie as a legitimate argument for someone's potential scumminess. Augh. Fail. Not sure if him forgetting that Dawg was dead is something a scum or a townie is more likely to do when replacing in, so I'm going to peg that as a null tell. The rest of his posts read like some kind of exercise in identifying bad logic for the most part. Particuarly notable is the backpedal, I've explained before why this is unlikely to make him more townie, it is 100% null tell really. Do find it weird that XBox wondered why Dog knew that the Meelhouse modkill would be day-ending, considering it's in the bloody rules post of the first post of the game, but again, more 100% null tells.
Anyway, I really need to organize my thoughts better, but: the interesting thing to note is the Breaker/XBox interaction. Breaker places a vote, with the full intention to remove it later by all appearances as soon as XBox starts posting...why? Then after Breaker's big defence post, XBox haphazardly jumps off the Soviet train and onto Combo, and in general they do a fairly wonderful job of being tsundere for each other. Combined with the rest of his scumminess, I'm going to ##Vote: XBox 360 right now.
Ninja Touhou, ShikiShana: what. Huh, interesting. Still what. Going to respond to said posts in my next post, want to get this out now.
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The way you have played the rolegame so far has been through a number of steps that fail to provide new information yet remain relatively safe for you to claim, so unlike demotivator (who at least would need to be working with 2g1c or otherwise have additional information than what is present to reliable fake it)...
It all just seems very convenient and unlikely. Maybe it's what actually happened. I sorely doubt it.
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...
Seriously, ShikiShana, seriously? Role names? Setup meta? You're using these as evidence at all, let alone as important points of your case? And yes, tracking BelAir was far from worthless as, in case you haven't noticed, it removed him off of people's suspicion lists, when before this, he was easily one of the most suspicious people in the game and would likely have been, assuming Touhou is telling the truth, mislynched?
Wow, just when I think cases can't get any worse from Astley's on me and on Advice Dog, they actually do. Need to reread ShikiShana and reconsider my lack of suspicion on him...but honestly from what I recall of his past posts, this reads terribly out-of-character, the past ones usually all had decent reasoning, and this one...is simply beyond awful. Wow. Just...wow. Seriously, wow.
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Seriously, I am.
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I mean.
You can go 'oh no it's rolemeta' all you like, but in what way does this fall apart? The odds are tremendously against Touhou just happening to pick the people out who have already claimed their effects, so I'm calling bullshit on it.
I can easily lynch people by picking apart their posts and focusing on stupid aspects to them, but when I do that it catches scum insanely unreliably so I don't even like doing it that much. I do still try to assess people, but in this case I think it all speaks for itself.
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The prince is here,I was away for the day on some unexpected business, kind of tired now, but I'll at least get a brief post of my summarized thoughts out for now.
While I'm hesitant to entirely believe Toujou's claim, I DO believe that the nature of it means we can at least put it on the back burner for at least one more day. The way I see it, the longer we wait, the more chances for Toujou to either be confirmed, or caught in a lie through night actions, so why take a chance now when we could aim for people whom we can't glean information from through night actions.
I'm still feeling that Xbox is the worse violator for today, his posts today are pretty much pure WIFOM, and he honestly doesn't strike me as actively trying to make an actual case/scumhunting. The dismissal of my theory with "wouldn't scum save the jacket" is just more WIFOM, but in response to this I feel like I need to clarify my thoughts on the matter somewhat.
I personally view the jacket as a not inherently townie power, since it has the potential to cause confusion. I'm of the opinion, that if I were scum, I would want to get it out in the ranks of the townies as quickly as possible, since trying to use the jacket only after finding a good role to steal would mean the scum wouldn't actually have access to a power until day 3, assuming they found a power they considered worth stealing. I don't think waiting until a mafia game is potential half over would be a good use of a power that could cause potential confusion in the town ranks. Anyways, moving away from speculation.
I'm pretty much thinking Xbox is still the worse, there has been alot of bad play and other things that have already been explained so:
Vote: HUEG LIEK XBOX
I'm honestly getting fairly neutral reads from everyone else so far, though out of the rest of the people who are up for suspicion I'm leaning ever so slightly towards AYB being the worse, though it could honestly slide either way.
Getting this out then going to sleep, will maybe have one post out in 10 hours or so, and then after that probably won't be able to post for another 10ish or so.
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Right, morning all. Xbox-sized post time.
Demotivator attacks me for WIFOM where my whole point is that we don't know. I'm not saying the busdriver is town, or even probably town; I'm saying that we shouldn't dismiss the possibility that he's town. When we're at the stage of people trying to clear half the game based on rolestuff (as Astley is doing), it's vital not to let our assumptions go unchallenged, and I haven't seen anyone post actual grounds. Claimed role is ludicrous but that doesn't make it false; still, claiming JoAT when it's never going to be tested isn't great. Bottom line is that his truthful-unless-touhou-scum claim is the main thing keeping him off my hitlist. Correction: 2g1c puts him in the clear; for demotivate to be scum he would either have to be lucky, or both Touhou and the girls be scum too. Guessing someone who's said their role is useless won't be targeting anyone... there are bigger risks, but it would still be a huge gamble. Side note: I'd think it's better for 2g1c and especially Cake to target random people than none at all (we all know to refuse any trinkets in the night, right?), just because that would put more information out there for the town to use in verifying claims; I'm open to being convinced otherwise on this point though.
(Waffle: the right thing for demotivate to do was make 2g1c claim first, so that we had Touhou -> Demotivate -> 2g1c and could add to both ends; instead we've got 2g1c/Touhou -> Demotivate, where the arrows indicate who clears who. But too late for that now)
@XBox 360: The reason I said that it does not follow is that: Cake targeted Breaker, and Dog got hit. Thus we are assuming a swap of Breaker and Dog. Actually, the part that doesn't follow is the earlier bit. A Dog/Breaker swap makes sense as Dog was likely to get NK'd due to playing extremely pro-Townie, and hitting Breaker with scum's own NK would have been remarkably fitting. However, the earlier logic doesn't hold: if Breaker was going to block Cake, then swapping him with Dog would still have his action...being aimed at Cake, and thus doing nothing.
Not doing nothing. Roleblocking the cake, meaning there's less reason for a townie busdriver to worry about Cake's NK hitting dog. The soviets argued that a townie busdriver was impossible because he would cause dog's death in the same way it happened - but I think assuming cake would be roleblocked makes perfect sense at that stage. And basically agreed with you on rolespeculation in rolemadness; my point is that if we're using "there are only two scum, one of whom is the busdriver and the other was the killer, so anyone who didn't target anyone last night is town" as grounds to clear people, we'd better be damn sure all those things are true.
XBox haphazardly jumps off the Soviet train and onto Combo
I did not jump onto Combo; I called him on a couple of very obvious things wrong with his post, which I would do for anyone. I was not seriously pressing him by any means. AyB's claim that I was being tsundere on him is entirely false; I was pure dere, simply not seeing the case against him until the Millhouse thing.
Almost certainly getting out of order in my responses now, but 2g1c: what I wanted to hear was not the air/hijack comment, but why I must be the killer if scum. I read your post as saying you'd give a full theory later, and you seemed to think the same was true for some other people.
I want to trust Touhou, but I still can't. I'm starting to think we learn more from them dead than alive, which is a terrible route to go down. They've got to keep producing results, which I think keeps them off today's lynch possibilities, but I'd be considering drastic measures if tomorrow's result still hasn't told us anything. Not sure at what stage it becomes worth wasting a night on testing. How far are we from LYLO anyway? (Answer: the day after tomorrow, if I'm counting right.) Following this reasoning, Bel-Air can wait until after we know Touhou's alignment for sure; it's not worth risking the game's final result to try and win quicker.
So. Touhou and Bel-Air postponed. Demote outright cleared, Cake pretty much confirmed town; 2g1c tentatively cleared, under the assumption the busdriver is scum (which I do believe, but think needs a little more thought). Yours truly town, not that you can take my word for it. Leaves Shiki, Rick, and AyB.
Shiki I've said all along looks townie, but is flying a bit low; I had no problem with this on D2 assuming it was going to pick up, but consistently low content is starting to bite. Last posts focusing too much on Touhou; throwing one theme name in could be bastardmoddery and rolename argument is generally so meta it hurts. Tracker is ordinary, yes, but not too ordinary for this game (my own current role, if nothing else, proves that).
Rick has been giving reason and insight. Posting fairly similar to me, as I think others have noticed, which it would be hypocritical for me to see as bad.
AyB always sneaking under the radar, and I don't like his misrepresentation of me as per above. More of the thing Astley said. Might be OMGUSy, but it's the best I've got. ##Vote: All your Base.
Just so I'm not dodging giving opinions on those I put off 'till later, an overall order, from most townie to least, and ignoring those I would call outright cleared:
Rick > Touhou > Shiki > 2g1c if ignoring rolestuff > AyB > Bel-Air
Explanations: Touhou I struggle to place properly, because the clear reasoning inclines me trust them, which I don't know how much to compensate for - the very thing I was worried about right at the start. Role result claim that semi-clears Bel-Air and does nothing to cover theirself makes a poor scum move, but WIFOM.
Rick > Shiki because I don't see anything outright scummy in his posts (there's plenty of bad, of course, the dog rant being the most obvious, but bad =/=> scum), and a lot of neutral posts is better than a few slightly townier posts. I could do with having another look through rick, but I've already spent an hour and a half writing this, so I probably won't get time to.
Shiki > a probably irrelevant 2g1c-if-still-a-suspect; 2g1c has been equally low content, not even sounding townie when it is there, and far too many "I'll say more later's.
Shiki/2g1c > AyB, who is low content and not even neutral when it's there; misrepresentation of my good self may be affecting judgement more than it should, but it's certainly not good
AyB > Bel-Air, who is pretty much zero content. As Rick says, seems to be trying to coast on an unconfirmed mason claim. Last post I remember from him was a case on me consisting of the obvious and the false.
Yes, this means my vote is not on my scum #1, but since scum Bel-Air gives us Touhou's head on a platter as the last scum (modulo scum busdriver assumption), game theory says I'm happy to leave him be for today. If anyone has a counterargument to this do please speak up, because I feel uncomfortable doing it, but I've learned to trust logic more than gut, and I can't imagine any remotely balanced role power that would prevent the town lynch.
Bel-air ninja. Sensible reasoning puts him at slightly better, but only slightly, given little new actual content and the promise of little to follow; at least he's committed to concrete times though (and having managed to post neither before my concert nor between it and bed yesterday, I can't come down on him too hard for that). Will see what he comes up with in 20 hours.
Will post now as I've spent long enough. If I have time, will follow up shortly after a systematic look at the roles and a reread of rick. (Of course, now that I've said this there won't be anything more to say based on either)
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Er. Whoops. That'll teach me to write mafia posts while severely sleep dep'd. Major correction:
XBox haphazardly jumps off the Soviet train and onto Combo
Should be: XBox haphazardly jumps off the Soviet train and onto Demote.
That being said, the tsundere-ness between you and Breaker was more evident on Breaker's end. You were more clueless than anything, it was Breaker who simultaneously tried to jump between voting you and saying you were town.
Furthermore, the above scenario does have the bus driver's action doing nothing, because the situation before vs. the situation after was identical: either way, Cake would get roleblocked, regardless of whether Cake and Dog were interchanged or not.
Also, XBox, please tell me what part of Astley's "case" on me actually applies? I thought I did a pretty decent job at showing why it's rather...senseless.
@ShikiShana: the reason I take issue with it is that there's no grounding in reality, "this is too convenient to occur therefore it did not!" is terrible reasoning imho. If there is additional justification etc, then I could see voting for Touhou right now. But if your only reasoning is "the night actions are too convenient", then I'm not sure why someone like that gets higher priority over someone who is actually scummy. The thing with scum fakeclaims is that they are forced to keep generating original results every single day, and thus as the game goes on, the chance of scum finally messing up a result somehow increases exponentially, thus it makes sense to defer the Touhou/Demote debate at least another day.
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Right, haven't had chance to look over rick, but I do have one thought on the roles. We can assume for the moment that the busdriver isn't town, since if they are town and we're about to lynch someone based on assuming the busdriver is scum then they'll claim (probably. 2g1c as town-busdriver had crossed my mind, but even without checking their posts, I'd assume a busdriver can't target himself). Whether town or not, neither of the masons (and they are confirmed co be masons) is the busdriver barring a crazy combo role. Nor can Touhou be the busdriver (having been seen to target cake), and nor am I (though whether you can get that from soviet's statements on the role I don't know).
Which, assuming I've counted correctly, means only Shana or AyB could be the busdriver. Corollary: at least one of them is scum.
I have to leave briefly now, so I haven't had as long to think this through as I'd like, but it's just logic and no revelations, so we lose nothing if it's wrong (other than me looking a bit silly), so I'll post it. Back in a few hours. Ignoring AyB ninja entirely, no time.
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Star Wars! And... wait, that's not right... (http://i42.tinypic.com/2s7gb2v.jpg)
Bottom line is that his truthful-unless-touhou-scum claim is the main thing keeping him off my hitlist. Correction: 2g1c puts him in the clear; for demotivate to be scum he would either have to be lucky, or both Touhou and the girls be scum too.
Two things. 2g1c don't clear me at all - if we're assuming they were roleblocked N1 by Combo, then it's likely scum know their role as well, which could be a non-target one. However, second thing, I can only be scum if you assume there are three left. My claim on Touhou cleared me unless we were both scum, and their claim on Bel Air cleared them unless they were both scum. By extension, me and Bel Air are basically clear unless you're assuming three scum left. (I... think this logic holds out? Every time I consider it, I get a different result, so if someone could check over that, it'd be great.)
Agreed on anyone with roles using them, though, for the extra information it provides.
Shikiana has me hitting my head on the wall with their "Touhou is Scum!" (http://i41.tinypic.com/8wim2r.jpg) logic... partially because one of the points crossed my mind, and I dismissed it for being terrible, TERRIBLE logic. (The 'Tracker is too normal!' thing.)
Anyway, assume that the roles were to be themed initially - what would you give most of the players? I can't think of many roles that really fit with Advice Dog, Demotivators, Xbox, etc. Either way, at the very least, Touhou's play really gives them another day while we go for... well, I'm willing to buy Xbox's logic. I doubt Russia would have not mentioned the Bus Driver role being his old one if it was, so I'd say we're down to Shikiana and AYB for that, and I'm happy having a 50/50 today. As bad as the role meta is, it's the worst thing to come from Shikiana all game, off the top of my head, and AYB's been... well, cruise control. Previous days have been low profile, and today's had some pretty weak logic. This post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101067.html#msg101067) is padded out waaaay too much, with entire paragraphs to reiterate what's already been said in one line by others. The logic of "Rick seems more confused Town, since Scum could just NK Advice Dog" is adsfdgfdgh since scum would presumably not want to use an NK where it's not needed, and presumably already had their plan to bus Dog into Cake's kill set out. Of course, this is more WIFOM, which we've both argued against, and that's why it's bad logic to begin with. Everything else is seemingly defensive and is too little, too late for me.
##Unvote, Vote: All Your Base
L-2, and I can't wait to see Cake/2g1c's reactions to all of this. I think Combo Breaker said it best with this: (http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6538/pokemon2.gif)
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Recap of what I missed.
Touhou goes for Shana for hypocrisy on D2, Shana OMGUS votes through FORGET GIVING ACTUAL REASONING IMMA PLAY ROLE META IN A BASTARD MOD ROLE MADNESS GAME, AYB clears Rick for being an idiot and jumps on Xbox despite him, uh, also being sort of an idiot, Bel-Air spells Touhou incorrectly about 3 times (though to be fair j and h are next to each other) as he goes for Xbox, who is STILL TRYING TO ARGUE THAT THE BUS DRIVER MIGHT BE TOWN as he OMGUS votes AYB, and suddenly the entire game collapses into 'One of these two players must be the bus driver because everyone else HAS to be telling the truth about their role!'
Is that a good enough summary?
Dammit, this is one of those magnificent scenarios where half the players are obscenely scummy for different reasons but you know they can't all be scum. Shana's latest 'case' on Touhou, if it even qualifies as a case, is so thoroughly meta that it makes my brain hurt, and Xbox basically buys into this logic by saying that the goddamn tracker might be more valuable dead than alive. And all the while, genuine scuminess takes a back seat to OH YOU HAS ROLE? NEVER MIND THEN!
##Vote: Shana
Okay, seriously. Reading into roles in order to produce a case is bad. Doing so without any evidence based on actual play is worse. Doing so without any evidence based on play in a bastard mod game is just taking it too far.
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My reaction is to vomit into the trashcan I have nearby, mainly because oh hey guess who probably picked up the flu?
Okay. Few things. Demotive. Your logic, mm... I can't validate it one way or another. Off the top of my head, I agree with you being clear, not with Boxxyel Air, but I do agree that the latter is unlikely to be.
Second, yeah, if Soviets had swapper role, to not say anything day 3 was silly. Thusly, they're cleared of swapper role, as Soviet, after day 2 at least, was not stupid, IMO.
I said I was looking at Touhou/Shikiana, Touhou came out of reread generally looking good still, no real questionable shit, and Shikiana, well. D2 I had neutral read when I finished breakdown, and now... there's... speculation on Touhou because their role is too normal and they targeted Bel-Air last night.
Uh.
Few issues, here. One, using the tracker ability to -check a shaky, suspicious mason pair- is hardly a horrible use of the ability. You are correct in that they are not cleared by this, by any means, but nor can the jump to omgscum be made as it makes sense for both scum to choose this to run off of and town to choose to try and validate or deny a suspicious mason.
Two, a role being too normal? Bastard moddery. I do not look into the abyss of bastard moddery, for fear it looks back into me. The case holds no water in that regard. Also oh hey masons who have to find each other. That sounds vaguely traditional too. Must be scum. Or something.
Finally, it's not totally accurate that Touhou has taken the safest option. In point of fact... N2. Safe? Say !cake targeted CCCCC, whinge something about how bizarre the switched target is. Not safe? Say they saw !cake target the dog While it's a claim that's demonstrated by the actions that happened (and which they were forced into by Demotive), yes, it's still not something a scum Touhou needed to do, pretty much at all. So, yeah. This just reads... It reads incredibly poorly to me. Combined with somewhat light content, and your tendency to not be reading posts (I reference pretty much every single time during day 2 that you asked me a question about what I was doing)? And... augh, okay, one more issue here; you pretty much treated the lynch for today set in stone yesterday (Touhou); this makes me wonder if you were banking on killing another power role today with a mislynch, which... yeah.
##VOTE: OH MY GOD SHIKI IS HOT
I don't totally disagree with anti-AYB sentiments but I need to relook through that, maybe I'm easily fooled by walls of text but he seemed at least passable when he did post. Will be kinda around for a while, not consistently though I suspect due to flue.
And as a side note my rolename is connected to my theming but not to my ability, pretty much. Bonus points if you can guess what the role name is.
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The logic of "Rick seems more confused Town, since Scum could just NK Advice Dog" is adsfdgfdgh since scum would presumably not want to use an NK where it's not needed, and presumably already had their plan to bus Dog into Cake's kill set out.
That was one very tiny part of why I claim he's confused town, the main part is that the Advice Dog case is: A) Terrible, B) Comes at a terrible time in the day, C) Had absolutely no hope of progressing to a lynch. Why does this imply that Astley is more likely to be confused town than scum? Because it was clear that Advice Dog wasn't going to get lynched that day, or anytime soon. He was easily the most townie player around. All that post did was attract attention. If you're a scum, you know this, and thus will avoid it. On the other hand, if you're a townie, suddenly Dog's alignment is uncertain, and if you're extremely paranoid, then posting something like that isn't all that weird all of a sudden.
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I doubt Russia would have not mentioned the Bus Driver role being his old one if it was.
All this means is that XBox is extremely unlikely to be the Bus Driver. Assuming 3 scum, this clears him. Assuming 4, it doesn't. Given that we started out with 17 people, 3 scum seems a bit on the low side. Is there any other reason as to why you're clearing him today, or is that it?
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(http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/6283/nitoriwakeywakey.jpg)
Ugh. Need coffee. Project deadlines coming soon. Not much time to spend here.
I have nothing else to say to Shana's accusation, primarily because it's not even anything I can defend against, and the girls and Cake have done an adequate job discussing why it's ridiculous.
Demote and CATS, it is true that Xbox does not have the redirectional role; Russia claimed yesterday that Xbox must be the killer if he is scum. However, Demote, I think you're a bit premature in discounting Mr. Astley. I believe it was either you or Cake that asked why this redirectional role didn't surface until Night 2. I don't recall anyone stepping up to claim they had their role redirected Night 1 after this question. If Mr. Astley was busy with Bel Air Night 1, that could conceivably be why.
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I changed my mind yesterday on voting Touhou on account of misunderstanding exactly what the claims were. I changed it back today based predominantly on the convenience of his/her/it's prior claims. It looks like a textbook scum fakeclaim in the face of being forced into it by Demotivator- although it does beg the question of what exactly was done with regard to cake, since it obviously wasn't a roleblock or kill or something like that, so the possibility of being wrong increases, I guess (scum hijacker? Mmmmph.)
It is somewhat surprising to hear both arguments for 'you can't make presumption/rolegame when bastard modding', yet see others (above, AYB springs to mind) practically clearing Bel-Air for not taking an action and generally assuming there must be 4 scum and all of that.
Of the responses to my case, AYB and bel-air have the worst (bel-air is saying that deciding on Touhou can be deferred to later on account of rolestuffs; I find this highly questionable, because scum-Touhou has a multitude of claims to make that will not permit further investigation. If the convenience argument isn't good enough today it ain't gonna be good enough tomorrow either.) AYB is sort of playing footsie, saying "That's TERRIBLE... but if you find something else on Touhou I'll consider it." Is my line of argument valid at all, or not?
I am going to partial claim now and save people some timewastin' later if half the game decides to lynch me; an additional vote is required to hammer me than usual (but I can still be defeated at a 3-man lylo, I believe.) I have an additional power which I will not disclose.
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Of the responses to my case, AYB and bel-air have the worst (bel-air is saying that deciding on Touhou can be deferred to later on account of rolestuffs; I find this highly questionable, because scum-Touhou has a multitude of claims to make that will not permit further investigation. If the convenience argument isn't good enough today it ain't gonna be good enough tomorrow either.) AYB is sort of playing footsie, saying "That's TERRIBLE... but if you find something else on Touhou I'll consider it." Is my line of argument valid at all, or not?
Really? So you claim that a fakeclaimed tracker can keep up giving results every night that will never contradict another role's in a role madness game and are practically forced to be unique every night so they can't just re-scan the same person over and over? It's certainly possible, but not only is it implausible, but also the possibility of a messup increases with each day, and we are in a position where we can defer role clears at least a day (and if not, then suddenly the suspect list for today grows enormously).
As for the second point, um, I thought I made my point clear? Role meta and setup meta are fine for suspicion. They are not fine for a case. Find scummy behaviour, or something based on hard evidence instead of speculation towards Touhou being scum, and then your argument is valid, in your current line of argument where the only thing to support it is speculation, it is not valid for a case, no.
Going to be away for the next 8-10 hours, back then.
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Aimed at all those who don't have someone else clearing them~ (http://i42.tinypic.com/2mdoygm.jpg)
AYB, on Xbox: I'm only clearing him for today, not completely - narrowing down the scum team to take out the bus driver first means we have a higher chance of hitting scum. He could still be the killer, and that's definitely a matter to take into consideration, just... not today.
I have considered one very weird thing about Shikiana's bad post coming now, but I'll warn you all now that it's riddled with meta.
All the way through this game, even up to the last few posts, people have been using the argument of "But that's so stupid that scum wouldn't do it!" So.. why does Shikiana play brilliantly in her (albeit limited) content throughout, and then pull out ROOOOLE META! when we're presumably coming to a close?
Also don't agree with 2g1c on Touhou taking the risky claim - saying they'd targeted Combo would've been the riskier claim, since there was no evidence on that one. Everyone knows they ended up targeting Advice Dog, so that's the safe-claim.
This is a mess. I honestly can't make heads nor tails of AYB/Shikiana. As much as I wouldn't do this if I wasn't confirmed, the only logical move I can make right now is to not have a vote down.
##Unvote
Touhou/Shiki Ninjas: Touhou, fair point on Astley, hadn't considered that one.
Shiki, there's a huge world of difference between 'There are probably 4 scum' and 'Their role is character-specific, hence scum'. Your partial-claim does nothing for your credibility, as I'm sure you know. And, uhh, AYB is saying your case is weak on its own, but could be justified if Touhou had played badly as well.
Well, that Unvote lasted long.
##Vote: OH GOD SHIKI IS HOT
Wouldn't mind a votecount around now to confirm whether or not Shiki is at L-1. (We'd presumably be told, right? Votecounts have always included L-1 throughout, so no idea why it wouldn't..)
AYB Ninja says part of what I'm saying and also defends Bel Air. Yeah, definitely justifies me voting for Shikiana, based mostly on today's content.
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Furthermore, the above scenario does have the bus driver's action doing nothing, because the situation before vs. the situation after was identical: either way, Cake would get roleblocked, regardless of whether Cake and Dog were interchanged or not.
The busdriver didn't swap Cake and Dog, he swapped Combo and Dog. Which (and this is becoming increasingly irrelevant, but I feel obliged to explain my logic when it's been so badly misunderstood) could have been done with the intent of directing the scum NK onto Dog.
(Where does cake being roleblocked come into it, I hear you cry? Unless the busdriver assumed Cake was going to be roleblocked, the above makes no sense, because Cake was obviously going to NK Combo and so swapping Combo and Dog at best gets you the same two people dead who were going to die anyway, and at worse gets, well, what actually happened. But assuming that Cake was going to be roleblocked was entirely reasonable, I think.)
I'll look at Rick's case on AyB when I do the big rick reread; I wasn't depending on it for my vote (said vote does need reconsidering now that AyB has corrected the claim I was moving onto Combo. Will try and reread AyB at the same time).
if we're assuming they were roleblocked N1 by Combo, then it's likely scum know their role as well, which could be a non-target one.
Hadn't thought of that; what the girls have said so far didn't seem to imply that, and they have no reason to mislead given that scum know their role already. I think the best thing is to ask them directly: 2g1c, assuming you can answer this, does your role have a target?
I can only be scum if you assume there are three left. My claim on Touhou cleared me unless we were both scum, and their claim on Bel Air cleared them unless they were both scum. By extension, me and Bel Air are basically clear unless you're assuming three scum left. (I... think this logic holds out? Every time I consider it, I get a different result, so if someone could check over that, it'd be great.)
No, it doesn't hold. Imagine Bel-Air is a genuine townie mason, and you and Touhou are scum; Touhou's claim that Bel-Air didn't target anyone is true but doesn't prove anything, since Bel-Air had already claimed mason.
There is a superficial element of my role which is themed to my character, which makes me wonder whether it was different originally for Russia. The name is certainly not connected to either of us, but as I've said already, bastardmod game.
One of these two players must be the bus driver because everyone else HAS to be telling the truth about their role
No, I was careful to avoid that; I only considered roles which are confirmed. It depends on assuming there are no crazy combo roles, e.g. the whole logic breaks down if you declare rick a scum combination mason/busdriver, which is not an impossibility in this game. But to my mind busdriver is rolemadness enough as it is.
the goddamn tracker might be more valuable dead than alive
The goddam tracker who, as was pointed out, has not told us one thing that wasn't already claimed. But yes, you're right; I'm just frustrated because if I could trust Touhou it would make this a lot easier.
Not safe? Say they saw !cake target the dog While it's a claim that's demonstrated by the actions that happened (and which they were forced into by Demotive), yes, it's still not something a scum Touhou needed to do, pretty much at all.
ScumTouhou still doesn't want to get caught in a lie, and at that point we don't know what half people's capabilities are, so I don't think that option's really any safer than claiming they saw cake target Combo. Will think more on this.
All this means is that XBox is extremely unlikely to be the Bus Driver. Assuming 3 scum, this clears him. Assuming 4, it doesn't. Given that we started out with 17 people, 3 scum seems a bit on the low side. Is there any other reason as to why you're clearing him today, or is that it?
As I read it, he's following my previous rolelogic, in which case the bus driver must be one of me, you, and Shana. Whence his "I'm happy having a 50/50 today." line. But I might be misunderstanding.
Quadruple ninja ignored for now
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He's saying my presumptions are bad, unless I have unrelated evidence from elsewhere, in which case they somehow become okay.
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Vaguely present, head is spinning so I'm not going to jump to conclusions here but one thing doeeeeeeeeees jump out at me.
if we're assuming they were roleblocked N1 by Combo, then it's likely scum know their role as well, which could be a non-target one.
Hadn't thought of that; what the girls have said so far didn't seem to imply that, and they have no reason to mislead given that scum know their role already. I think the best thing is to ask them directly: 2g1c, assuming you can answer this, does your role have a target?
Oh, so scum -do- know my role already, XBox? And here I'd been openly wondering earlier, but you say they do? I don't know if that's a scum slip or just a logic slip, but mmmmm, jumping from "likely" in the quoted line to "and they have no reason to mislead given that scum know their role already"...
Will be back later, thinking, but this jumped out at me as I skimmed through.
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Really? So you claim that a fakeclaimed tracker can keep up giving results every night that will never contradict another role's in a role madness game and are practically forced to be unique every night so they can't just re-scan the same person over and over? It's certainly possible, but not only is it implausible, but also the possibility of a messup increases with each day, and we are in a position where we can defer role clears at least a day (and if not, then suddenly the suspect list for today grows enormously).
Actually yeah I think it's really easy for them to do this since they know everything we know, and a bit more, and a lot of roles are already in the open, and for all we know LYLO is tomorrow.
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Oh, so scum -do- know my role already, XBox? And here I'd been openly wondering earlier, but you say they do? I don't know if that's a scum slip or just a logic slip, but mmmmm, jumping from "likely" in the quoted line to "and they have no reason to mislead given that scum know their role already"
Logic slip or logic insight? No-one's claimed two roleblockers, no-one's claimed to have been roleblocked after Combo died, and assuming Combo roleblocked you then of course scum would know, unless Milhouse was lying or... I could continue over the even less likely possibilities. Do you actually think the matter's in doubt at this point, and if so, why?
No, I do not know for absolute certain that scum know 2g1c's role. I assumed, given the Combo, that they do, and imagined 2g1c would think so as well. Were you trying to mislead us over your role, then? Do you actually want to hide whether or not it has a target, when that information makes the difference between whether or not Demotivate is confirmed town?
Apologies if I'm overreacting, but this seems like ridiculous nitpicking from the girls.
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Oh, so scum -do- know my role already, XBox? And here I'd been openly wondering earlier, but you say they do? I don't know if that's a scum slip or just a logic slip, but mmmmm, jumping from "likely" in the quoted line to "and they have no reason to mislead given that scum know their role already"
Logic slip or logic insight? No-one's claimed two roleblockers, no-one's claimed to have been roleblocked after Combo died, and assuming Combo roleblocked you then of course scum would know, unless Milhouse was lying or... I could continue over the even less likely possibilities. Do you actually think the matter's in doubt at this point, and if so, why?
No, I do not know for absolute certain that scum know 2g1c's role. I assumed, given the Combo, that they do, and imagined 2g1c would think so as well. Were you trying to mislead us over your role, then? Do you actually want to hide whether or not it has a target, when that information makes the difference between whether or not Demotivate is confirmed town?
Apologies if I'm overreacting, but this seems like ridiculous nitpicking from the girls.
Rolecops usually get role names, is why the ambiguity. We don't actually know that scum's rolecop allowed them to get role info. Or at least, Town doesn't. Scum would. And no, it wouldn't make a difference either way as to whether or not Demotive is town; whether my role has no action at night, or I deliberately did not act last night, as I said earlier today, is irrelevant. It cannot clear him due to the -potential- that scum knows my role. Due to the ambiguity of what we've been given info-wise, we do not know for sure, and thus Demotive cannot be cleared by my role. (And... why would it matter if I had no action or didn't take an action? Demotive got it correct, there was no action from me during the night phase. That my role could somehow prove Demotive's own seems highly, highly fallacious, as my role actively has nothing to do with his accuracy; only my night actions could. Understood?)
I have kept my role info deliberately hidden from town -because- I was hoping a scum would slip up and reveal they knew more about me than I had put out there. This is why I have leapt onto your comment, why I felt and feel it suspicious. This seems very much off, honestly.
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Rolecops usually get role names, is why the ambiguity.
I wasn't aware of that; I was going solely on the example of Milhouse, who told us precisely what Combo did. Surely a name-only rolecop would be pretty useless in this game?
And no, it wouldn't make a difference either way as to whether or not Demotive is town; whether my role has no action at night, or I deliberately did not act last night, as I said earlier today, is irrelevant. It cannot clear him due to the -potential- that scum knows my role.
Only if it has no night action. If your role does have a night action then it puts Demotive in the clear, because there's no way he could have known you'd target no-one last night. (And we think there were only busdriver and killer last night, so he can't be a scum tracker.) No?
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(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/3839/breakfastclub7.jpg)
I'm fully aware that everyone wants to be funny in this game, but when you start stealing my jokes, it's over the line. I don't expect this to happen again, but consider it a warning. You mess with the bull, you get the horns.
If I have to come in here again, I'm cracking skulls.
Votecount
Rick Astley (1): The Cake is a Lie, Touhou Hijacker, Demotivator, O R'LYEH?!
HUEG LIKE XBOX (0): Demotivator, All Your Base
All Your Base (2): Demotivator, Rick Astley, XBOX
ShikiShana (4): , Touhou Hijacker, Cake, 2g1c, Demotivator
Touhou Hijacker (1): ShikiShana
With 9 Memes alive, it takes 5 spam mails to give someone a virus!
ShikiShana is at 4 votes!
Mod Note: This is an official mod done votecount, COMBO BREAKER just wanted me to let him zombie post it. This is C/Pd directly from a PM I sent him with the count.
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Big reread done, from start of day 3 on.
Demotive: I see no need to rely on the mod's L-1 detail (particularly given bastardmod); under the circumstances we can surely simply push Shiki to "L-0" and see what happens. Just make sure AyB is one of the votes on her, so that any quickhammer would reveal a definite new scum. Obviously we should not implement this plan yet; I definitely want more people looking over my logic first.
I know I'm being overly defensive here, but still, I see 2g1c's own day 3 statement goes:
No roblock, obviously - since it was attached to rolecop they know my role, which... depending on info given to scumsquad, means that it's near-worthless. However, I've got a Cassandra-ish (ish) restriction, so please pardon me if I don't just loosen my tongue just yet.
I'm as happy with Astley as I ever was.
AyB asks what part of Rick's case is valid. In early D3, Rick attacks AyB for long, recappy posts, repeating others' points, with no solid opinion; AyB seems to think "of course no solid opinion, it's D1" is a good enough response to this. Similarly, when Rick makes the same point for AyB's D3 stuff:
As for the stuff cribbed from Shiki, I posted late in the day phase, and happened to have the same opinions on most things. What's your point? There wasn't much to discuss D3 anyway beyond the Touhou/Cake/Demote night action debacle, as the end action of the day (lynching Breaker) was already decided before the day even began
Explains why there was very little original opinion, but seems to think that's the only charge he had to answer. AyB, having no firm opinions on D1, or having no original things to add late on D3, is one thing, but making long posts where you report what's happened and repeat others' opinions is bad for other reasons; it seems like you're trying to make it appear you're offering more opinion than you are. Which is a scummy thing to do.
(I'm well aware I'm not the most concise of posters myself; I'm not trying to make my own case on AyB here, just explaining why I think Astley's reasoning is sound.)
Honestly AyB looks better than I remembered; has been posting more since late D3. Not enough to make him look better than Touhou/Rick, but might put him above Shiki; will need a little more time to mull over shiki's crazy rolename meta argument. However, pseudomod pseudoninja, assuming it's not more combo games, reminds me that voting Shiki at this point would be too far, which means there's no better place for my vote. (Of course, if 2g1c's role actually doesn't have a target, pretty much everything I've said ceases to be valid; while the fact that Demote would point this out speaks in his favor, that's just WIFOM and ultimately he's not in the clear yet.) What I think we want to happen at this point is for AyB to check those counts are accurate (because like hell do I trust the "mod comment" in a combo post to be real. Fool me once, etc.) and then vote Shiki. But someone else should probably confirm this before it happens.
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I'm fully aware that everyone wants to be funny in this game, but when you start stealing my jokes, it's over the line. I don't expect this to happen again, but consider it a warning. You mess with the bull, you get the horns.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_lAgQHBDIE-U/SsveWZ78NbI/AAAAAAAAACI/3leH9M17Zh0/s320/wahmbulance.jpg)
Totally deserved.
On 2g1c/Xbox... Hmm. There's definitely something suspicious there, but it's very minor. A slip of the tongue, maybe, but he's also defended it decently. Enough to tip him over the edge? Probably.
Xbox Ninja: Well, either way, she's not been announced as L-1 now. That's enough for me to assume it's true, but I'd still be happy to see a vote for her... a little later in the day. And don't think we really need to worry about quick-lynching now, since it'd pretty much be the end of the line for scum if they did.
Oh yeah, and that votecount's right, by my count - I checked earlier for my post where I put Shikiana at 4 votes, and nothing's changed since. Even Combo has his limits, I guess.
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don't think we really need to worry about quick-lynching now, since it'd pretty much be the end of the line for scum if they did.
For most people I agree, but assuming scum AyB and town Shiki, AyB might consider themselves to be in a bad enough position to do it. As far as I can see it costs us nothing to have AyB be the fifth vote, so if it avoids one possible bad scenario then why not.
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That is an official votecount, Combo just wanted to make another joke, which he ran past me and I allowed. <_<
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/me yawns
Tired, low on time. Gonna be brief, and will try to be coherent. (Also, if I'm wrong about something, please point it out. I would much rather not have false information lying around)
Much as I hate to admit it, I'm gonna have to call myself (2g1c claim stuff) and Xbox out for forcing WIFOM into situations where it is definitely not needed. Some stuff is just a little too ridiculous. (And this is why they say hindsight is 20/20)
Also going to quickly cover, for the Box's benefit, that a busdriver picks Person A, and then Person A's night actions are delivered to a random player instead of whoever they targeted. A Hijacker would be someone that switches Person A and Person B for the purposes of night actions. Important distinction, unfortunately not something we can determine as of yet, though I think it's decently safe to say Hijacker based on Combo/Dog switch?
As for AYB clearing Rick and I, that's definitely not where you should be gleaning it from. I know where I was coming from there, and even I'd say it's a null tell at absolute best. If you want to clear us so bad, then try using some of Rick's posts. ('cause god knows mine are crap) Also gonna throw out that you softclaim cases, far as I can tell. I know that for today, at least, a lot of your cases have been with a backhanded "but this is why they could be town." (IE: You attacked us earlier in the day, if I'm remembering correctly, but didn't place a vote to bring us closer to lynch, and you brought out the backhanded escape route) Very easy way to look like you're being solid on a case, but not look bad if they, say, turn up town.
Missed your 3 vs 4 scum thing on my initial read, too. That's just bad. Really, really bad. If it were a town busdriver/hijacker, then they would have almost definitively claimed by now (though I do not, in any way, believe there is one anyway). We know there has to be at least 4 scum, and the only other possibility is 5, which would ruin most theories produced as of this day.
Gonna throw it out there that somebody without a night action might have been hijacked N1, or that person might have been on the kill, or who knows. Unfortunately, not enough information to grab anything from that, though yes, it is possible that Rick and I are secretly bus-driving, mason-recruiting scum.
Re-iterating that XBox is almost definitely not the busdriver/hijacker.
Confused about Shiki rabidly clawing at people for stuff that isn't true. Probably trying too hard to build a defense, thus flailing. Hell if I know. Hopefully this'll change soon, and we can have some scum-hunting from her. Having her claimed half of her role be true, however, does absolutely nothing for my opinion of her, as she clings desperately onto what the other half is despite being on the chopping block. Also confused about her not saying much about AYB and XBox and me, despite being the only other ones really on the chopping block, but (probably) dying scum, so WIFOM, blah blah yadda yadda.
Gonna get this out now, as it's turned out a lot longer than I expected. Again, if anything is wrong, please tell me ASAP so we can get any false information off the board ASAP. Peace out. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oghj7y4hluU)
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(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/641/nitorisweaty.jpg)
Phew, that's the major project down. Still have a couple of minor projects throughout the day, but at least the bulk of the work is done.
Shana claims the "convenience" of my claims is the reason she votes me, to which I must ask why she did not acknowledge my Bel Air report in her opening post today. I can kinda sorta maybe excuse not immediately declaring it bunk, but not commenting about it at all? The report had been there to read for a while, and if you had time to ask for Demote's clarification, surely you had time to comment on the report.
The girls' find on the Box is interesting but I don't know how much stock I'd put in that theory. I'll admit I sorta assumed scum knew the girls' role, since a rolecop that gives just role names in a game like this is pretty useless (Zerg Rush flipping Skindancer is a pretty good example). Might be a slip, I guess, but I don't think I'd use it as a point against him in any capacity other than a tie-breaker.
Ninja'd by Mr. Astley. There's not much there for me to address, though the scum count theorizing reminds me of something I lightly pondered while working in the shop. We have a proven second killing ability in Cake. Now, as stupid as accepting a Cake gift would be at this point, it's still technically possible for there to be two deaths tonight, which means we could go into tomorrow with six players still alive. If there are three scum, wouldn't that make today potential LYLO, of which there has been no mention made? Yes, bastard moddery, but come on now.
Might as well ask the man, just to be sure. Gate, ignoring the possibility of modkills for blatant rule-breaking, is it mathematically possible for scum to win tonight?
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Also going to quickly cover, for the Box's benefit, that a busdriver picks Person A, and then Person A's night actions are delivered to a random player instead of whoever they targeted. A Hijacker would be someone that switches Person A and Person B for the purposes of night actions. Important distinction
Important distinction, yes, but isn't it the other way around from that?
If it's the other one, they would've been targeting Cake. Meaning they would have to be Touhou (still assuming for the moment that demotivate can't be lying, still waiting on 2g1c arrgh to be sure). And would've had to target demotivate last night. Gah, I was sure this was easy to rule out, but I'm not immediately seeing it. Will think more.
Touhou ninja. Mod is bastard but will still tell us whether it's LYLO? Shrug.
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Not really around but will quick respond: I withdraw my pressure there with apologies as I forgot I had been pretty much deadset convinced that scum knew my role earlier (as shown by the comment you fished up). Thus that comment's kinda worthless. Also, Demotivate cannot be cleared by my role via your logic, which, yes, means I have no night action to take. Now, he's kinda generally clear to me anyway due to knowing TouhouandonlyTouhou targeted !cake N2, at least to me, but it's not 100% sure, no.
This is why I shouldn't sign up for mafia when I'm really not up for it. Regardless, still content with where my vote is.
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don't think we really need to worry about quick-lynching now, since it'd pretty much be the end of the line for scum if they did.
For most people I agree, but assuming scum AyB and town Shiki, AyB might consider themselves to be in a bad enough position to do it. As far as I can see it costs us nothing to have AyB be the fifth vote, so if it avoids one possible bad scenario then why not.
Going to read and do a full post in a bit, just got back, but I am perfectly fine with doing this: is town alright with me bringing ShikiShana to L-0 within the next 3 hours?
I will post reasons as to why my opinion on her has changed, the only difference is whether that post will have a vote or not (since I'd like to avoid accidental ninjahammers or nonsense like that).
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Gah. 2g1c's info puts the possibility of Shiki/AyB being both town back on the table. Which would make me more uncomfortable if I didn't find them both worse-looking than either Rick or Touhou; but the take-home point is don't just go by my earlier logic to place a vote on either; we're back to good old-fashioned scumhunting.
How much of the earlier logic can be salvaged? Unless I've missed anything, the only possible scumteams are:
Touhou/Demote, in either combination
Touhou/Bel-Air as hijacker/killer
Shana/[any of me, AyB, Rick] as busdriver/killer
AyB/[any of me, Shana, Rick] as busdriver/killer
I haven't thought this through as carefully as I'd like, so please do recheck my logic.
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And indeed there was a flaw. Touhou/any of me, ayb, shana or rick is possible as hijacker/killer.
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bleh I haven't slept properly in hours
Quick question. If we aren't getting anything definite from reading into roles and setup, what's wrong with just plain scumhunting? Shana's accusation on Touhou is so insane and tangential it feels almost like it's TRYING to convince us that she's just a moronic Townie. It's totally out of character compared to the rest of her posts, too.
Consider Xbox - he spends a while saying 'let's lynch Shana and see what happens!' and now he's reading into meta and saying 'hmm, maybe Shana/AYB are both Town atfter all'. Where exactly did the concept of just finding scum go? Do we need every scum kill spelt out by an NK or a Cassandra?
Perfectly happy with a Shana lynch today, honestly. Hasn't produced anything worthwhile, worst Touhou case ever and so on.
That said, I'd like the New Hotness to get a chance to roleclaim before someone drops the hammer. Can't be too safe in setups like these.
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Yeah, I think today's pretty much set. Shikiana's total flip from low-but-good content to pure meta is so scummy, she must be tow- *shot* Yeah, I've hated that argument every other time it's been used too.
The Xbox is probably still top of my list otherwise, with Rick/AYB falling closely behind. Xbox's logic has been a little shaky all game, and a lot of his content today has been summarising setup.
'Course, this is all subject to re-read when I haven't only just woken up. Can't see it changing much, though, considering my last read through.
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I am half-bulletproof, and half the time when people try to kill me at night, I won't die.
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Aside from the as-legitimate-as-assuming-there-are-4-scum meta case on Touhou, I would mostly be eyeing xBoX and AYB presently for the nature of their responses today (heck xbox seemed to pretty much ignore this, that was kinda weird). I'm not really sorry about leaving the game for various reasons, but I do regret not fishing through Touhou's stuff to find a method to lynch him in a palatable way.
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Votecount
Rick Astley (1): The Cake is a Lie, Touhou Hijacker, Demotivator, O R'LYEH?!
HUEG LIKE XBOX (1): Demotivator, All Your Base
All Your Base (2): Demotivator, Rick Astley, XBOX
ShikiShana (4): , Touhou Hijacker, Cake, 2g1c, Demotivator
Touhou Hijacker (1): ShikiShana
...so, nothing's changed from last time!
With 9 Memes alive, it takes 5 spam mails to give someone a virus!
ShikiShana is at 4 votes!
There are roughly 27 hours remaining in day 4.
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Posting from my phone so haven't read anything new yet;; something that's been worrying at me all day has finally made its way to the surface. Shiki's phrasing of her ability makes little sense for town;; not "I can still be killed at 3-man", but "I can still be defeated".
Home in a couple of hours.
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On briefly, some thoughts:
First off, my vote here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101167.html#msg101167) on Xbox seems to have been missed. Though I noticed I missed the pound keys so let me redo it:
##Vote: HUEG LIEK XBOX
I'm not sure why we apparently went from aiming for scum to aiming for the busdriver/whatever, if we hit scum it doesn't matter what role since the last one would be forced into killing for the most part.
I still think that Xbox has been the worse today, his entire set of actions today rub off on me as cheerleading.
Shiki/Shana might not have the best case ever, but I'm entirely surprised out how seemingly everyone today is forgoing past behavior and voting mostly on today's behavior.
I said it before, I still think there's a chance that Touhou is scum, however at the same time I believe their claim is something that allows us to put off a direct pursuit for currently since there is room for Touhou to either confirm themselves for real or to make a mistake that would give them away. Not sure why we're so enthusiastic about lynching someone who made a case(albeit the rolename part of it is admittedly blech) about someone who isn't actually confirmed.
Still aiming towards XBox, I personally think the Shiki case is being blown out of proportion, going to take a look at AYB before I'm able to post again sometime tonight, apologize with the lack of presence, should be finished with my busy stuff in around 8 hours.
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AyB always sneaking under the radar, and I don't like his misrepresentation of me as per above. More of the thing Astley said. Might be OMGUSy, but it's the best I've got. ##Vote: All your Base.
I'll look at Rick's case on AyB when I do the big rick reread; I wasn't depending on it for my vote (said vote does need reconsidering now that AyB has corrected the claim I was moving onto Combo. Will try and reread AyB at the same time).
O...kay, that's really comforting. "Let's make an OMGUS vote on me principally based off of something that was basically a typo from being exhausted when typing up a post, and to make it sound better, defer town to someone else's case on that person, which I myself have not read at all". Yeah, um, thanks.
Explains why there was very little original opinion, but seems to think that's the only charge he had to answer. AyB, having no firm opinions on D1, or having no original things to add late on D3, is one thing, but making long posts where you report what's happened and repeat others' opinions is bad for other reasons; it seems like you're trying to make it appear you're offering more opinion than you are. Which is a scummy thing to do.
(I'm well aware I'm not the most concise of posters myself; I'm not trying to make my own case on AyB here, just explaining why I think Astley's reasoning is sound.)
...
Are you serious?
First off, like I said, I didn't repeat other people's opinions on D3, I merely had the same opinions as a lot of people there and posted late in the day. There are only so many opinions one can have, especially when it's D3 in this game, with the day's lynch already decided before the day even began, and a confirmed scum spamming up the thread every 15 seconds. By your logic, everyone in the game who has the same opinion on any issue, ever, must be scummy! Oh wait now all of town is scummy because we have to all agree on a lynch in the end.
Secondly, I make long posts. This is a bad habit. If my posts were all purely reporter-y, this would be scummy. As by your own admission they are not, this is not scummy in and of itsself, merely annoying at best. But yeah, I do find it amusing that you are trying to use wordiness and post length instead of post content and opinions at this point as points in your case. But way to put that last line there, if you think this is behaviour that is explicitly scummy, why are you doing it yourself? Seriously.
He's saying my presumptions are bad, unless I have unrelated evidence from elsewhere, in which case they somehow become okay.
How is this hard to understand? Your presumptions are your presumptions. i.e. they might make sense to you, but why should be believe you about them at all? There is no reason to, when there is no reason for us to believe your opinion of the events that have recently transpired among Touhou/Cake/Demote, there is no intrinsic reason to suggest your opinion is more valid than the one that the events discussed actually did happen, etc. However, if you now bring solid evidence of Touhou exhibiting scummy behaviour, or of him messing up night action claims and contradicting someone else's statements on how night actions for a given night played out, there is now reason for us to believe your case on him, as there is now something that we can all see about him that is off.
Seriously, there is a reason that we all make cases and not just claim person X/Y/Z is scum: because how do we know that person X/Y/Z is more likely to be scum than person \alpha/\beta/\gamma? Similar case here. We have no reason for your presumptions to be correct at the moment, hence my complaints. It is not that they "somehow" become okay, it's that they become okay for basic mafia gameplay reasons. Seriously.
Shana's accusation on Touhou is so insane and tangential it feels almost like it's TRYING to convince us that she's just a moronic Townie. It's totally out of character compared to the rest of her posts, too.
Noticed this too. Soviet was at least consistent, whereas with Astley there was at least a semi-logical progression for his nonsense case on Advice Dog (Soviet vote on him -> Soviet vote made for reasons that turned out to be invalid -> Huge Dog defence on Soviet -> Request at Dog to stop defending Soviet -> A potential Dog/Soviet scumteam guess via questionable logic made while pissed off -> Nonsense case). Not only is ShikiShana's case bafflingly out of nowhere and so terrible considering the rest of his posting was surprisingly good, but his insistence at not doing anything else (i.e. finding actual evidence on Touhou or scumhunting and voting someone else, or even just commenting on everyone else alive) is also aggravating.
O...kay, ShikiShana, do you claim that you're just giving up or something? Not sure what you mean by "leaving the game".
Anyway: fine with a ShikiShana lynch. However, I still feel that at the moment, XBox 360 is by far the scummier player. See: several of my posts, but we have: terrible logic on multiple cases (Soviet, myself), Combo's actions w.r.t. him D2, misreps, a lot of setup rehashing, blasting me for long wordy posts while having the same issue himself (and the fact that in and of itsself, this is not scummy and thus should not be a major point in a case against someone), and the added weirdness w.r.t. 2g1c isn't helping him at all. Hence, for now, vote stays.
Ninja BelAir: what makes you think the ShikiShana case is being blown out of proportion, out of curiosity? Part of the reason for the case on him is that today's content is very suddenly so, SO much worse than several days' worth of well-reasoned, sensible content.
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Um, Gatewalker, I never unvoted XBox 360...
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Fixed. Dunno how I screwed that one up. Insert wall of derps here.
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Cake, of course there is nothing wrong with plain scumhunting. Didn't I make an underlined call for it myself? Equally, though, there is nothing wrong with rolelogic either, and particularly given that they're both pointing to the same place, you seem unnecessarily hostile to it.
he spends a while saying 'let's lynch Shana and see what happens!' and now he's reading into meta and saying 'hmm, maybe Shana/AYB are both Town atfter all'. Where exactly did the concept of just finding scum go? Do we need every scum kill spelt out by an NK or a Cassandra?
That sounds like I was just randomly back-and-forthing; which isn't so; the logic changes based on new information from 2g1c. Of course we don't need every kill spelled out, but if I have rolelogic that tells me a particular player has a >50% chance of being scum, I really think following that logic gives me a better chance of putting my vote in the right place than working purely from the sound of people's posts.
Aside from the as-legitimate-as-assuming-there-are-4-scum meta case on Touhou, I would mostly be eyeing xBoX and AYB presently for the nature of their responses today (heck xbox seemed to pretty much ignore this, that was kinda weird)
As legitimate? Yes, everything we know is legitimate evidence. As convincing? No. I don't object to the case for being too meta, I object to it because I don't think one rolename being themed and the others not being is any degree of evidence. I dismissed it on those grounds, and didn't really give it any more thought after that.
I'm not sure why we apparently went from aiming for scum to aiming for the busdriver/whatever, if we hit scum it doesn't matter what role since the last one would be forced into killing for the most part.
Indeed, but if we're in a situation of "2 of these 6 people must be scum, but 1 of these 2 people must be the busdriver" then we get better odds by looking at the second.
Let's make an OMGUS vote on me principally based off of something that was basically a typo from being exhausted when typing up a post, and to make it sound better, defer town to someone else's case on that person, which I myself have not read at all"
It was not at all clear that it was a typo, and I didn't even consider the possibility of one. I was referring to one very specific thing Astley had said (that you were saying things that at first sounded accurate but then emerged as misrepresentation when one read the person in question's posts properly), not trying to defer to his case. No, I hadn't closely read Astley's case, but Astley had claimed that you were doing a bad thing, and then I saw you do exactly that bad thing, to me.
First off, like I said, I didn't repeat other people's opinions on D3, I merely had the same opinions as a lot of people there and posted late in the day
What distinction are you trying to draw? How are we supposed to tell the difference without being able to see into your head?
As by your own admission they are not,
What specifically are you going at here? I thought we were all agreed that you had no firm opinions D1 and no original opinionsopinions that hadn't already been said D3.
if you think this is behaviour that is explicitly scummy, why are you doing it yourself?
Doing long posts when you're not offering any real opinions is scummy. I hope (and can't really judge) I'm not doing that. If nothing else, I'm not using a few long posts as a substitute for posting more frequently; your long first D3 post makes it look like you're posting as much as, say, Shana (because you've posted as many words), but you've actually only offered a small quantity of real content.
Willing to hammer (most immediate grounds being silly meta case and the seeming slip I pointed out in previous post, in case this wasn't clear). Will do so in 12 hours (when I get up) if there have been no objections and it hasn't happened already.
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(http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/8877/nitorigrin.jpg)
Upgrade Complete! (http://armorgames.com/play/3955/upgrade-complete) I am now a Stage 4 Boss. Kind of. I feel a bit bad for Momizi, since I got 4 scenes while she only got 3, but them's the breaks, I guess. It's probably because Aya knows her better, so there was less information to gather.
The mod not answering my question is a little unsettling but ultimately unsurprising. I still don't think we're dealing with anything other than two scum simply due to the number crunching, but I guess it's not a guaranteed thing.
I am fine with whoever wants to hammer Shana. In fact, I'm pretty sure the mod got our most recent time count wrong: The days started at 4 PM Pacific on March 11th, and it is now 1 PM Pacific on March 14th. With a 72-houyr day, I'm pretty sure that means we really only have 3 hours left (or possibly 4, depending on North America's Daylight Savings nonsense).
Demote makes a note of something I had noticed for recent posts: the Box has spent this entire page of notes playing the pure logic game and providing setup speculation (aside from the one...somewhat questionable word choice poke at Shana). This prompted a re-read of the Box's notes from today, and I must agree - most of his content is role/setup/night action speculation. There are a few game play opinions but not a lot. I might have to rethink how much stock I put in widening the gap between the Breaker and the Russian. Whether or not it's enough to push him back above Mr. Astley, however, it's not enough to push him above Shana.
Bel Air, since no one commented on my Shana case other than Shana herself, and you seem concerned with judging Shana by past behavior, do you have anything in particular to say to my case on her?
Ninja'd by the Box. The problem with rolelogic is that anyone can do it regardless of alignment. It provides no opinions, only facts, and when a good chunk of scumhunting is based on assessing the validity of opinions, providing no opinions does not help us determine your alignment. It is pretty easy for scum to use so they look like they are contributing when they are not, and that is why people are starting to turn eyes toward you. Role logic should be used in support of opinions, not instead of opinions.
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The problem with rolelogic is that anyone can do it regardless of alignment. It provides no opinions, only facts
This is true, but conversely the advantage is that facts are always true, and town benefits from having the truth out there. Given that no-one else was doing it, and e.g. Demotivate has already messed up the logic, I felt it worth taking a rigorous look at the roleinfo, and I thought it was my best chance of catching scum. I thought I gave my opinions on all the relevant players here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101168.html#msg101168), and have mentioned any shift in my opinion (which has only happened on AyB relative to Shiki); yes opinion makes up a small proportion of my posts, but I've been posting a lot; I would hope I'm providing enough opinion in absolute terms.
I've had no other opinions that resulted in a shift in people's relative positions, but if you want them I've had a few more thoughts. Viz, that Rick has made a testable commitment on his role, while AyB is I think the only player without any kind of role claims at all going. Also, Bel-Air's emphasising that we should put off pursuing Touhou (and that's pretty much the only thing in his post) makes me even more suspicious of him, because (given rolelogic) we can only lynch him after we lynch Touhou. By extension this also puts more suspicion on Touhou. (Enough to put Touhou below Rick? Don't think so, though to say for sure would require a reread and I've already spent more than enough time on this game today. Also, I find it hard to motivate myself to put a lot of thought into taking a position here given that it makes no difference to my vote today and I'll have to reconsider it all anyway when we get tomorrow's role result from Touhou. If that's a scummy position then sorry.)
Oh, and I'll just respond to
he spends a while saying 'let's lynch Shana and see what happens!'
since it sounds confused as to what I was saying. What I meant with my "L-0" comment was, we should push Shana to a votecount that would normally result in a lynch and see what happens (thus testing Shana's roleclaim), not that we should actually lynch and see what happened.
I'm sure everyone realises this, but Touhou should claim a role result first tomorrow. Also, since Cake's not big on rolelogic, I'll reiterate: do please target a random person rather than no-one, just to remove "I got busdrivered onto Cake and saw him target no-one" as a possible excuse for a scum Touhou.
It's very tempting to start explicitly directing night actions, particularly when it comes to Demotivate, but I'll refrain.
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We're so close, and yet so, so far. :( (http://i44.tinypic.com/10f9r88.jpg)
half-dead, have been all day. Will be brief, won't be referencing posts here, so sorry if I remember stuff wrong here.
Xbox stays on the defensive, although somewhat more forgivable considering the lack of new content going around on the whole. Still kinda disconcerting. Oh, and saying "new logic from 2g1c changed things" is weird, since... I'm assuming that's referring to the possibility of me still being scum? Except, uhh, Touhou and either Bel-Air or Rick could've been the whole time anyway, so there's always been the possibility of Shikiana and AYB both being Town, and I'm not sure what that changes with regards to Shikiana's lynch.
To your most recent post: I've had a few ideas on who to use my night action on. It's changed a few times, but I'm happy with scum not knowing who I'm targeting and knowing that my target is being chosen by Town, not Mafia. It's a little worrying that you are trying to direct night actions, really, since it essentially tells scum what's being planned and that's bad enough, let alone with role redirection in there. (I know you haven't actually directed anything past "Cake should act!", but the consideration of it is still kinda strange.)
Bel-Air: Everyone's ignoring previous days and looking at today for Shikiana because it's so drastically different. And yeah, seconding the call from AYB: what is it that you don't think is a problem with the case on Shikiana?
Finally, call to the mod for clarification on the times, looking at what Touhou's said regarding the start of the day.
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It's been pointed out to me that due to a time count error, the day should have actually been over by now(day started at 4PM PST March 11th, it's not 4PM PST March 14th, that's 72 hours.)
However, ninja deadlines are lame, and thus I'm going to call this the 8 hour warning. The day will end in 8 hours from this post(that's midnight PST/3 AM EST).
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Oh, and saying "new logic from 2g1c changed things" is weird, since... I'm assuming that's referring to the possibility of me still being scum? Except, uhh, Touhou and either Bel-Air or Rick could've been the whole time anyway, so there's always been the possibility of Shikiana and AYB both being Town
Oh dear, xbox sized facepalm. The mistake I corrected in this post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101272.html#msg101272) was there all along, and far more important. My logic was that town you proved Touhou wasn't the busdriver, because you'd seen Touhou target cake, meaning that one of Shiki and AyB had to be the busdriver, and thus one of them had to be scum. Not realising the possibility of a Touhou hijacker who could have targeted you last night. At this point all I can say is, sorry everyone.
I've had a few ideas on who to use my night action on. It's changed a few times, but I'm happy with scum not knowing who I'm targeting and knowing that my target is being chosen by Town, not Mafia. It's a little worrying that you are trying to direct night actions, really, since it essentially tells scum what's being planned and that's bad enough, let alone with role redirection in there.
I know all this, which is why I didn't. But it is tempting. Obviously any reasoning I made would've taken into account the redirector. Doing the logic about who you should be targeting (which would almost certainly not come up with "you should target X" but rather "you should target one of X, Y and Z at random/according to your own suspicions") tells the scum nothing they don't already know (we certainly shouldn't be relying on the scum being unable to do logic), and having the logic done in public reduces the chance of a mistake compared to you doing it all on your own. (It doesn't give scum a way to direct your actions, because it's just logic. And trading the risk of scum not getting the logic right against the risk of you not getting the logic right just makes the game more uncertain (and the scum can at least collaborate between themselves), and uncertainty favours scum).
What makes it particularly tempting is that I think I can see a way for you to substantially constrain the scum's actions, so I want you to get it right. (Unfortunately, it largely constrains them into killing you, but there's no way around that). I won't direct you; you've said you don't want me to. I will say to please think it through very carefully (though I'm sure you will), and wish you the best of luck.
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Blargh, near-ninja deadline is annoying. Prepared to bring ShikiShana to L-0 in 3 hours if nobody else does so before.
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Half-bulletproof claim is not enough to validate Shana's play. I'm all for Base hammering any time now.
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Might I suggest a vote/unvote of her? That way we can avoid any ninja hammers, and if she doesn't take an extra vote (which I don't think she does. Gate said that she's at 4 votes, not L-1) to lynch, then she will have been hammered. (Being at hammer is being at hammer, even if an unvote comes later I don't think it actually matters)
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Ah, so vote, and then unvote immediately after in a subsequent post? That makes sense, I am for it.
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It might not work that way, however, so we should wait for a note from the mod, methi (http://www.nuklearpower.com/8-bit-theater/)nks.
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Mod has given his word (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x_vkVxrWmg&feature=related) that vote/unvoting will, indeed, hammer if the vote brings them to hammer. Go ahead, AYB.
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Actually, I'll do it, because it doesn't really matter who. Lying about your role is scummy, pure and simple.
##Unvote: AYB
##Vote: ShikiShana
##Unvote: ShikiShana
##Vote: AYB
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Will unvoting/revoting in the same post do it?
Also, waiting for mod on results.
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Votecount
Rick Astley (1): The Cake is a Lie, Touhou Hijacker, Demotivator, O R'LYEH?!
HUEG LIKE XBOX (2): Demotivator, All Your Base, Bel Air
All Your Base (2): Demotivator, Rick Astley, XBOX, Rick Astley
ShikiShana (4): Rick Astley, Touhou Hijacker, Cake, 2g1c, Demotivator
Touhou Hijacker (1): ShikiShana
With 9 Memes alive, it takes 5 spam mails to give someone a virus!
ShikiShana is at 4 votes!
There are roughly three hours remaining in day 4.
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It does do it, that's why I wanted to wait for the info.
...and there's the mod. Without a hammer. Meaning it does take an extra vote to hammer. Make of that what you will, but she didn't lie about i (http://blueteardrop.deviantart.com/art/Run-125776723)t.
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Okay, that much is a given.
Really, not sure what to do. There's plenty of bad play and some degree of scumminess, but as stated earlier I'd still rather that XBox 360 be today's lynch. On the other hand, there are 3 hours remaining in the day, ShikiShana has had plenty of time to defend himself and scumhunt and has really done neither, and yeah.
@mod: what happens if the day ends without anyone being hammered? Does the person with the most votes get lynched then, or does no lynch occur?
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The person with the most votes will be lynched.
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Here, sick as dog, not coherent at all, bone tired to boot. Lack of anything really resembling defense convinces me on Shikiana at this point. A defense at the midnight hour would not likely have swayed me either, but the fact that her main defense was "wish I could have convinced you guys to lynch touhou" does not sit well and I am content where I am.
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(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/2927/sakuyawatch.jpg)
What is going on here? Such strange time dilations. I thought only I could do this.
I trust our good kappa's decision-making skills and will not be moving her vote barring an emergency.
I really do not understand the purpose of the large box's latest post. Is he attempting to influence the fates of the night or merely cheerlead them? My mistress might have something to say about the former*, and the latter seems like pointless filler.
Before anyone unfamiliar with Touhou asks, yes, this is flavor.
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One hour left folks. If you're going to do anything, do it soon.
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Awake, just. Cheerleading charge on my last post is probably entirely fair; it's just, as I've said, I don't want the demotive to get this wrong. But sure, that particular post has essentially zero content. Which now that I think about it means I shouldn't have said it.
While there seems little point, I did say I would hammer (I must've misremembered the votecount when I said it, because this isn't hammer thanks to shiki's role). Still,
##Unvote, ##Vote: OH GOD SHIKI IS HOT
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Votecount
Rick Astley (1): The Cake is a Lie, Touhou Hijacker, Demotivator, O R'LYEH?!
HUEG LIKE XBOX (2): Demotivator, All Your Base, Bel Air
All Your Base (1): Demotivator, Rick Astley, XBOX, Rick Astley
ShikiShana (5): Rick Astley, Touhou Hijacker, Cake, 2g1c, Demotivator, XBOX
Touhou Hijacker (1): ShikiShana
With 9 Memes alive, it takes 5 spam mails to give someone a virus!
ShikiShana is at L-1!
There is roughly half an hour remaining in day 4.
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Aaaaaand that's deadline.
Too tired to say anything funny here, so I'll just note that OH GOD SHANA/SHIKI IS HOT!, Town Giant Robot has been deadline lynched.
It is now Night 4, please send in your actions.
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The sun rises, and with it, the remaining memes. All except for the one who had always had a cute picture with a funny caption ready to warm the hearts of town. He was found dead in his room, surrounded by half finished posters, with a note that read "You've been working so hard. It's time to take a very long vacation" stapled to his forehead.
Demotivational Posters, Town Kappa Fanthing~, has been demotivated!
With 7 memes alive, it takes 4 to lynch. It's the starting of a brand new day! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA46ZNjrzeY)
Day 5 is POTENTIAL LYLO! There will be no time limit today.
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@Touhou: night action results. Now.
@Cake: I receev'd a copy of A Chance To Survive Make Your Time last night. Naturally, I declined. Now, I have to wonder, given that the details of your role are completely out in the public between Advice Dog's night post before the beginning of D3 and your D3 post explaining how your role works, someone would have to be a complete fucking idiot to accept any suspicious-looking gifts they randomly got in their PM inbox. So why did you send one to me? Seriously.
Just finishing up a case on XBox 360, should be up very soon.
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Roll here, no time for anything. Goi (http://www.nuklearpower.com/8-bit-theater/)ng to make a request that people look for those making additional cases against Shiki, even after her death (lynch) was (almost) inevitable.
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Okay, so. We're in lylo, and Demotivational just flipped as Touhou's role. (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100688.html#msg100688)
What the hell?
Base: I was told to target someone last night because otherwise Touhou could cop out her results by targeting me. Now, uh...I have no idea what's going on.
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Back, time to read. And... AYB just screwed up everything. Everything. The entire point of having Touhou claim first, as was claimed when it first became relevant, was so that they couldn't have any other info to fall back on. Now, thanks to you, they can claim they saw !cake target you, and we won't know if that's true or not.
As for Demo flipping Touhou's role, well... I think it's pretty safe to assume it was used on the kappa. However, I also believe it's safe to assume that scum despises that jacket existing.
Quite comfortable with an AYB lynch now, aside from the potential LYLO bit. Need sleep, however, so I'm gonna wait on the full analysis until that's happened.
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(http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/2499/nitorialoof2.jpg)
I am indeed in possession of Demote's Fine Leather Jacket. Hina is most distressed at my now lacking a tilde, but such is life, I suppose. Even with my role gone, however, I shall remain,
Anyway. I attempted to follow the box last night...and was told that the girls did nothing. Cute. Since someone will invariably ask, I tracked the box because of the sheer volume of any-man's-notes he brought to the table yesterday, and the knowledge that he would have to be the killer were he scum - his night action target, or if he even has an active power, would have gone a very long way in determining his alignment.
I will admit I am now torn on who to pursue. The box's Day 4 was a fantastic presentation of how to contribute basically nothing useful to determining one's alignment, but Mr. Astley's outburst at CATS is downright confusing for a couple of reasons (most notably why anyone would have expected me to track Cake over one of our remaining suspects). I would like to hear opinions, not role speculation and night action cheerleading, from the box, and some explanations from Mr. Astley regarding his thrust at CATS (hopefully regarding my issue with me tracking someone outside my suspect list over someone inside it), before I make a decision.
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Okay I was sleepy and forgot Demotivational had the jacket.
Anyway. I'm thinking there are still only 2 scum, and we're talking 'potential LYLO' as in 'assuming you mislynch, Cake sends another Townie a gift tonight and they accept out of derp, and scum hits someone else'. Since, well, I can't really kill anyone anymore, I think we can safely assume we still have one spare mislynch to go.
I missed something yesterday. What was going on with Shana and the votecount? Why was she still technically alive at L-0, exactly? She was Town, so would she have had a reason to lie about her role...?
I'm still thoroughly irritated at how easily Bel-Air gets away with doing practically nothing all day. The distancing from the Shana case is also pretty disgusting.
Shiki/Shana might not have the best case ever, but I'm entirely surprised out how seemingly everyone today is forgoing past behavior and voting mostly on today's behavior.
If I were to randomly turn on 2g1c and say HEY ISN'T IT A COINCIDENCE THAT YOU'RE STILL ALIVE, how long do you think I would last? Plus Shana had hardly been a shining beacon of activity in previous days, not to mention she was on the Russia wagon.
Not sure why we're so enthusiastic about lynching someone who made a case(albeit the rolename part of it is admittedly blech) about someone who isn't actually confirmed.
Besides that, uh, the case was based entirely on circumstancial role information and didn't take her actual content into account at all? Why does Touhou have to be confirmed in order for a case against her to be bad? You just sound like you're trying too hard to come up with an excuse to stay away from the Shana case, here.
##Vote: Bel-Air
Need to re-read Xbox, but really Bel-Air's been getting by for waaaaaay too long on horrible content.
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I am not here for long. Slight annoyance at Touhou getting yet another unverifable (hi, no night action reporting for duty), but what's done is done and their role's gone anyway and so yeah okay. Also agree with Cake, that it's potential LYLO makes me fairly convinced it's two scum, but uh could I convince you to drop the vote just in case there's durp the durp vote antics? I'm not opposing Bel Air just yet, mind, and now that I'm feeling not-sick I plan on actually, you know, being fucking -constructive- and -breaking cases down- instead of waffly baby cups I've been the past three days which knowing my luck won't actually help any, but ya know. Bel-Air is high up on my list of "right", as is Astley at this point for the sudden push on AYB for what seems like an honest mistake (now, had Touhou claimed watching CAKE... but...)
Also, it's partially LYLO due to my role, which I will continue to tapdance around so I can ensure it stays partially LYLO and not actually LYLO because it has no chance of aiding town at this point thank you very much dah dah dah dah. But yes, due to me and !cake it is potential LYLO, I strongly suspect.
!cake: Presuming Bel-Air is scum means Touhou is scum (Night 3 antics, Touhou claims Bel-Air watch and clear), barring very weird Bel-Air role shenanigans (Bel-Air being untrackable or something silly). I suppose what I'm asking is, do you believe Touhou is scum enough to be willing to commit to Bel-Air? I don't deny he's... uh... incredibly, incredibly low on things like content and towniness. But Bel-Air scum kinda sets Bel-Air/Touhou, barring role shenanigans as stated earlier.
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Mmmn, check that, kinda see where the Astley jump on AYB comes from, but it more makes AYB more scummy than Astley less so in my eyes (Astley being all gung-ho for a AYB lynch is not reassuring me at all, even if he might be right).
Will get to cases starting tomorrow, early day so I need to rest up.
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!cake: Presuming Bel-Air is scum means Touhou is scum (Night 3 antics, Touhou claims Bel-Air watch and clear), barring very weird Bel-Air role shenanigans (Bel-Air being untrackable or something silly). I suppose what I'm asking is, do you believe Touhou is scum enough to be willing to commit to Bel-Air? I don't deny he's... uh... incredibly, incredibly low on things like content and towniness. But Bel-Air scum kinda sets Bel-Air/Touhou, barring role shenanigans as stated earlier.
The Touhou track muddies the waters immensely, but the way Bel-Air just snuck by all game on absolutely nothing feels really bad regardless. We've already seen that scum has a roleblocker/rolecop, and almost definitely a hijacker, so the concept of a GF isn't out of bounds. Note also the hijacker stopped Touhou from tracking Xbox, and that a cleared Xbox would make Bel-Air look really bad.
Or perhaps I'm overthinking it and they just didn't want people to see Xbox. Bah. Really need to get around to the reread but I'm tired as hell. ##Unvote for now, will return to this tomorrow after an Xbox reread.
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Bleh. Similarly, will get around to cases tomorrow. Exhausted, again. Whee.
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(http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/6133/nitorismile2.jpg)
No new theories, sadly, as I am still waiting on the box and Mr. Astley. I will turn in for the night here and hope to have something specific to address/researtch tomorrow.
Cake, Shana surviving L-0 was part of her role. Citation can be found here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101181.html#msg101181). On the subject of Bel Air and possible role and/or mod information contamination, I was specifically told Bel Air did nothing. I was not told that my role refused to power up, or that Bel Air was afk or anything else that would otherwise seem to indicate my machination failed. Given this and today being potential LYLO (hopefully this will put all three-scum-left theories to rest for good), as reprehensible as his actions have been, I firmly believe Bel Air to be town.
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Bah. Scummy actions from both those whom role says are prime suspects. AYB screws things a little, but honestly I think this could be him just not reading. Bad for town, yes. Conclusively scum? No. And Touhou comes up with another nothing.
As for Demo flipping Touhou's role, well... I think it's pretty safe to assume it was used on the kappa. However, I also believe it's safe to assume that scum despises that jacket existing.
That's what I was referring to last night; demote's result on Touhou would have given us a certain scum one way or another, meaning the scum pretty much had to kill or at least redirect him, whichever way the scum goes.
why anyone would have expected me to track Cake over one of our remaining suspects
Defending Astley who possibly should be defending himself, but it was my idea: no-one would expect you to intentionally do so, but there's a busdriver out there.
Now, I make a perfectly sensible tracking target for the Hijack, but by no means the only one; at the least, Rick and AYB were perfectly good candidates too. So the odds of the Hijack just happening to hit the person the busdriver chose to swap with 2g1c (and if Touhou's town, we are looking at a busdriver) are poor. (Also, note that at this stage the leather jacket can no longer tell us anything - if we leave touhou alive we lynch AYB, and at that point everyone left has their role already mostly-known, excepting mine which comes from Soviet so tells you nothing about me. We have no idea what the last scum role must be. So there is no value in leaving touhou alive for the sake of future results.) Coupled with bel-air being hands-down the scummiest remaining player and scum bel-air implies scum touhou...yes. ##Vote: TOUHOU HIJACK LOL. I take the girls' point, but worrying about putting someone at (count 'em) L-3 seems premature (the girls, incidentally, still seem pretty suspicious, but I haven't bothered to think about them much since I think they're in the clear on rolestuff. Will think more, since now that I come to it, touhou hijacker/2g1c killer is entirely possible, even without invoking things like untrackable. Not to mention the girls' role wtfery grates).
Touhou wants more opinion from me. Which is fair enough, but I'm not going to abandon logic at this stage, which means there are really only three players on my radar at the moment - and I only care about Bel-Air in so far as what he implies about Touhou. My opinions are pretty much what they were yesterday; bel-air is scummier than scum, AyB is netural on his content's, uh, content (leaning to scummy with the premature statement today, but only slightly) and lower on it than Rick or Touhou. Rick I see nothing from that makes me think scum. Yes, his leaping at AyB earlier was wrong, but I can understand his frustration; when I first read that post I wanted to lynch him immediately. In case that isn't firm enough for anyone: I think rick is town.
Touhou, hmm. My impression of their content remains outright good. That said, they did make and then retract that weird roletheory on day 3, and much as I love the consistent flavour, it does bulk up the posts. And for someone so insistent on opinions, the insistence on waiting to hear from everyone before giving their own seems slightly churlish. But these are minor niggles; going by post content alone I would still put Touhou as better than AyB. But this role result is one too many for my liking.
A question for those who know the flavour better than me: Does "Kappa Fanthing~" mean anything? Is it more likely to be a tracker vs a hijacker?
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why anyone would have expected me to track Cake over one of our remaining suspects
Defending Astley who possibly should be defending himself, but it was my idea: no-one would expect you to intentionally do so, but there's a busdriver out there.
Perhaps this is me being nitpicky, but why does this read as you communicating with one of Astley or Touhou (heavily implies the latter)? And, actually, you know what, given how much this has come up before and how often you seem to make really weird phrasing issues I don't think I am being nitpicky anymore. This reads poorly and scummy, flat-out. If
A question for those who know the flavour better than me: Does "Kappa Fanthing~" mean anything? Is it more likely to be a tracker vs a hijacker?
I think it reads "Who the fuck knows this is role madness and role names don't seem to match up too much to abilities c.f. robotgirl and thus this isn't role theorycruft this is uselesscruft".
Currently suspecting Astley/Box primarily. Will begin providing arguments in about four-five hours time, currently in the middle of work.
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EBWOP: Screw Internet Explorer, premature ejaculapost. If it was -your idea- that !cake should be tracked/you and I should be bussed/that whatever attack should be going on, regardless of whatever the idea was -implying communication outside the game that isn't the Mason pairing-...
Yeaaaaaaah. Okay, you know what? That just... no. No, no, no no no no no no no no no no. No. I let this sit too long. Sorry for being hypocritical, !cake, but I need to put my own money where my mouth is, consider my own commentary on you rescinded because, well, yeah.
##VOTE: HUEG LIEK XBOX
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(http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/973/nitorisideglance.jpg)
Hazelarice, the box did make a public call to have Cake target someone. Citation here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101300.html#msg101300), and I believe there was a post of his even before that discussing the idea, though it was less direct than the one linked. As long as I am on the subject, however, my issue with Mr. Astley is not founded in who suggested Cake target someone, but in the idea that I was somehow supposed to target Cake to the point that CATS jumping in and complaining completely sold Mr. Astley on the CATS case. I saw the suggestion and dismissed the idea almost immediately: I had already decided I was going to track people I was suspicious of (and stated this publicly when I announced my Bel Air results), and Cake was not such a person. It seems like such a trifling thing to get that worked up about (though the same could be said of CATS' reaction to being targeted in the first place).
On to the Box's post. The girls are not suspicious, they are role cleared barring bizarre bastard mod machinations. Demote has claimed the presence of a redirectional role and also claimed to see the girls doing nothing Night 3. Even if you do not 100% believe Cake or myself, Demote has now flipped town, so we may assume he was telling the truth. In order for the girls to be scum, that would require three scum remaining, with the other two killing and redirecting as necessary, and given today is potential LYLO instead of full-fledged LYLO, that theory has been basically debunked. For someone so insistent on discussing facts and roles, I find it very strange that you wouldn't notice this yourself.
I made a call to hear from others because I've already written my dissertation about both yourself and Mr. Astley. You can find it scattered throughout the game. I would love to talk more about the two of you, but everything you had presented up to my latest post I had already discussed.
I am having a hard time reading the poke at my flavor as little more than reaching for a reason to discredit me.
The vote for me is not something I can really address, as it is founded in role speculation, which has been discussed already as a scumhunting tactic, and opinions of Bel Air, which, despite the implications of Bel Air being scum, I cannot honestly fault the Box (or anyone else) for holding, since if I didn't have my tracker result on Bel Air I would similarly be shouting for his head. I cannot and will not offer a defense for Bel Air's actions beyond my tracker result.
Color me unimpressed on the whole by the Box's post. I could see myself voting for him today, as at this point I think his performance on the whole is enough to override my misgivings regarding the Day 2 switch off of Russia. I would still like to hear from Mr. Astley first, however.
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(http://imgur.com/ouQxJ.jpg) (http://imgur.com/ouQxJ.jpg)
The Case on XBox, 2girls1cup style!
Day 1: Terribad lurking, crummy content when it did post. (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99875.html#msg99875) However, common day 1 complaint there, the inactivity is more problematic than the content... or it would be if the replacement wasn't forthcoming. On a side note, CCCCC poking myself/Astley but not XBox for low posting when I had posted not too far back in the thread before XBox did his one real D1 post (I posted end of P4, XBox near top of P5, CCCCC called me out but didn't comment on XBox page 6. Interesting, at least). Also just kept his joke vote on the O9k train, saying he considered it a serious vote. Regardless. Touhou breaks down why this post is useless flimflam to the extreme here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100132.html#msg100132).
Day 2: Replaced after another long period of inactivity! Woo. Anyways, the new XBox posts more, which, well, at least means we aren't dealing with lurkertude.
Oh, right. During this part, CCCCC puts "pressure" on XBox until he posts something "substanstive" which pretty much ended up being revealed to be completely forced, kudos to people for catching that better than I did who went "ehh"... interesting to note it was on XBox, tho. Not too sure what to make of that, gonna say null tell for now but it sure ain't anything positive.
And then the replacement tags in. Okay! Let's break this shit down! I'm not going to quote your HLXBOX posts, but I -will- link each one I feel I need to, and pretty much go paragraph by paragraph. So. If there's nothing to say, I'll just put a 0 down and move on with \\\, so just search for those in this.
Link - The Legend Of Zelda (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100286.html#msg100286) 0\\\ 0\\\ oh noes I tell people I'm gonna be gone clearly common courtesy is scummy! Really, you've harped on that being suspicious a few different times, and it just looks bad on your end. I like to inform people when I'll be back. I consider it respectful. Apologies that you don't like it. I kindly suggest you get over it. The low presence D1 my end is correct, however (pot&kettle living together in perfect harmony).\\\ ...Okay, I confess I glazed over like half your wall of texts for a while. I clearly, really shouldn't have, and have only incompetence and illness to blame. You're trying to provoke him into talking about town role powers...? Yeah, no, that seems very very bad.\\\ OH NOES TOUHOU IS BEING REASONABLE THIS MAKES ME SUSPICIOUS! So glad others called you on that, this was headdesk worthy. Holy christ. Actually, you're accusing them here of being suspicious because they can direct discussion because they're reasonable... and their vote had been on you at the time. Wow. ADoggie hadn't. You call him less suspicious. Okay! Wow. I missed this. Clearly just a bit colored, eh?\\\ Talking of percentages and vague quantifications that are pretty much pointless there anyway.\\\ Came down on CCCCC's side in the CCCCC/Dawg's argument! Problem: Dawg was already dead and CCCCC was scum. Right. I correct him, he tries to tell me that I should be able to explain -why- scum chose to roleblock/cop me N1. Right.
A side note: ADoggie deconstructs (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100317.html#msg100317) XBox's attack on Touhou and the vote on Soviet/about lolcat&Soviet.
Zelda II - The Adventures Of Link (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100320.html#msg100320) NNnnnnnnnooooo that's distinctly not what you're said that's pretty blatant backpedaling. Yeah, sure. You preface it with "positives". But you are very much unapologetic in painting Touhou there in a very, very fearful light.\\\ ...if someone is saying they neither confirm nor deny X then... how does that change anything? Oh, and what's fun here? You knew the role it had at the time - your previous owner swapped with it N1! So you know he couldn't have been the secondary killer, that's not what the role you got did! And then you pressure to lynch him, who we now know is town. Interesting. But we'll put that too aside for now.\\\ ******You're pushing for a Commie lynch in part due to info (read: he has your old role) despite the case on -me- being the best one you see. What I read from this? You want the person that had your old role -dead-. And when you failed to lynch him D2, you had him roleblocked, and then just NK'd him... but not before the pesky jackets got away. Why the jackets, I don't know, maybe you feared that getting scum roles was way too dangerous, but this reads way too bloody fishy. You wanted Commie -dead dead dead-, this is pretty much painfully obvious by the fact that you really don't seem to be interested in moving to me, who you even consider scummier by your own commentary.******
This cinches your scumminess to me, idly. But I'll keep going.
Later in the day (page 10 for reference) you posit that scum would want to -roleblock their own person-. Yeah, no. Firstly, WIFOM, but even ignoring WIFOM it's silly and kinda stupid. Why deny scum the use of all whatever roles they have in a role madness game? Yeah, not buying it even as a potential theoretical and that you're trying to smear mud on me indirectly by implying that's what happened... yeah no. Switched -off- Soviet Russia on page 11 and onto me- wait, no, onto... Demotivational? Ahahah. So wait, even though I felt like the strongest case, someone you barely commented on beforehand suddenly surged forward there after Russia seemed to falter and CCCCC seemed to be surrendering, -and- you avoided the CCCCC lynch lineup (that dissolved due to Milhoussandra)? Haaaah.
##UNVOTE: HUEG LIEK XBOX
"WAIT WHAT?!"
I want people to -fucking comment- on this case. Tell me where I'm stupid. Tell me where I'm being outright denser than the XBox's own gravitational pull (this is entirely a reference to your huegness, dude. Not meant as a personal insult). I -do not want- people to just go "oh okay", vote him, we get a scum lynch and day ends. No. I want not only conversation so that I can be sure on this, but I want to finish not only this case but a few other cases. I personally believe Day 2 is the lynchpin - we track down who was aiming for Soviet Russia hardcore, we may yet have this.
Finally, unless someone can outright convince me that XBox is town beyond a shadow of a freakin' doubt, honest to Gomorrah and there's absolutely no flaw in the logic because at this point I don't think I could buy -any- roleclaim produced, I want XBox down today. I am convinced of him being scum right now. But this is why I want people to comment. I am flawed, I need people to look shit over because I'm hardly consistent. I do my best under pressure, sadly, and hopefully this makes up for a long time of mediocrity. I'll get to D3/4 stuff next post, and then move on to the next player.
EDIT: Touhouninja! Hi! Please read and comment you beautiful Nitori you AUGH DAMNIT STAY STILL FOR MY CAMERA JAMIE DOESN'T MOVE AS FAST AS AYA DOES DAMNIT!
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(http://imgur.com/tTbM4.jpg) (http://imgur.com/tTbM4.jpg)
Day 3:
A Link To The Past (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100615.html#msg100615) 0/// Commentary on Roll's rant. Unsure what to make of this here, will piece this together later, but for now /// Uhhh, more attempting to figure out how to get me looking bad for a lynch down the line? Okay. Since that's talking about the roleblocker and ADoggie's commentary on what the roleblocker could have/been doing/why I wasn't quite clear at the time, I'm taking it as that right now. /// Sure, iffy time for the vote, and sure, me admitting it doesn't help. I admit things because they amuse me, if you haven't noticed yet. This being said it was terribad logic day 2 when I called you out on it. /// 0. Accurate enough telling off of Demotive IIRC, should go back and check the post but. ///
Skimming the rest of day 3, there's a lot of posts and not much of relevance and I've got to run but day 4 is where it gets interesting again - just to quote part of their defense against Bel-Air's attack (which is somewhat sketchy itself but not totally bad),
Leaving aside the question of whether scum would even want to block the leather jacket, if I were scum they would already have known what the leather jacket did, which surely makes it rather a waste of their combination rolecop/roleblocker, no?
Except scum blocked the jacket quite willingly N2, remember? Before the roleclaim? You know, blocking the person that admitted that he was aiming at CCCCC with the role afterward? So they clearly knew -what- it was and knew it was dangerous enough to block it, non? And how would they know what the role was and what it could do and why they should be afraid of what it could do to an exposed scum unless... unless... Oh, I don't know. We're just two ditzy gurrrrlz here, help us fill in the gaps! That night action -surely- wasn't foretelling at all! Nope. Oh, wait.
I'll get to dissecting D4 when I return, but that deflection makes things look even worse.
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(http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/6456/1238415537197.jpg)
I've studied your theory, Hazel, and jotted down a few notes as I read.
I disagree with trivializing the box's lacking Day 1 content simply because it was Day 1. It is perfectly possible to present even just a decent amount of opinions on Day 1. The box's Day 1 opinions were scarce and unexplained. Even on Day 1, this is not acceptable.
I discussed the nature of the Breaker using the box for his vote switch launchpad in my opening statements on Day 3. I believe it to be a null tell and not worth mentioning in an argument against him.
Your breakdown of his first Day 2 post is mostly accurate. The most I would say about this is that I wonder if you might be overblowing it a tiny bit because you feel slighted by his poking at your promises of later content. Not that I disagree with finding that poke bad, of course.
The point about the box knowing that Russia could not have been the extra killer is an interesting one, and I'll admit I missed that before. It does make me wonder why the box would make such a big deal out of that Russian statement. The rest of your paragraph...well, it would explain Russia getting roleblocked Night 2 quite neatly, but it's still more "this could be how the night actions went down" than anything else. I'm not in a position to begrudge anyone Theory Road, but I don't think it's a total case-maker, since "this is what happened" does not directly follow from "this might have happened", even with scum Box having good reason to want Russia RBed.
Choosing to switch to Demotivational over you is another neat catch, as I don't particularly see that thought process telegraphed in his posts. I would definitely like to hear the box's rebuttal for this.
On the whole, while there are a couple of small issues I have with some of your supporting arguments, I must say your thesis is quite impressive, and picked up on a couple of things about the box that I missed. I think I am actually prepared to vote for the box over Mr. Astley after seeing those extra points, though, again, this could change depending on what Mr. Astley brings to the table when he returns.
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(http://imgur.com/g3KRo.jpg) (http://imgur.com/g3KRo.jpg)
A quick response as I continue my work on his day 4 posts.
It wasn't my intent to trivialize the day 1, else I wouldn't have presented it. In retrospect, however, it sounds as if I did as such; my bad!
The promises of later content may indeed be a slightly sore spot with me, but at the same time that is not what he presses, at a note. He presses the fact that I mention I'll be around at a later time x or so, which is a different ball game (soccer!).
There is much theorycruft in that section, I do not deny. But it seems that the shutdown of Soviet was a top priority - which is interesting, considering that they were a high lynch priority earlier. Roleblocking them and thus giving them that claim ability? Risky, to me, and feels like something that really would've been done to ensure that they couldn't manage the switch somehow.
IOW, why roleblock them if they were likely to be untrusted by town anyway? Unless they feared the role he had. How would they know the role he had? The original owner had to have been scum. It's not the only piece of logic leading to scumbox. But it's another one. And yes, it's theorycruft, and yes, I'm repeating myself. But... I wanted just to ensure clarity here. I -do not see how this makes sense any other way-. While Soviet could have been nightkilled, the fact remains that either a NK or a roleblock to neuter his ability was necessary from the scum viewpoint, most likely. I can't say why they didn't NK night 2 instead. Perhaps they thought Zerg Rush a bigger threat somehow. Regardless, they saw fit to neutralize Soviet N2. Which leads into them knowing his role and thinking it important enough to stop the jacketswap, which only makes sense via XBox.
Back to the D4 postwhirl. I shall return either in thirty minutes or so or a few hours, depending on how soon I finish.
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Perhaps this is me being nitpicky, but why does this read as you communicating with one of Astley or Touhou (heavily implies the latter)?
Because as Touhou says, I have been "communicating with Astley", by posting in this thread.
I had already decided I was going to track people I was suspicious of (and stated this publicly when I announced my Bel Air results)
This was your public position, but had you decided to track cake for the sake of clearing yourself to town (which frankly would have been of more benefit to town, it would've given us one confirmed scum (AyB) wheras you only had a 1/3 chance by going for someone suspicious), you would hardly have announced the fact and told the busdriver who to target.
On to the Box's post. The girls are not suspicious, they are role cleared barring bizarre bastard mod machinations. Demote has claimed the presence of a redirectional role and also claimed to see the girls doing nothing Night 3. Even if you do not 100% believe Cake or myself, Demote has now flipped town, so we may assume he was telling the truth. In order for the girls to be scum, that would require three scum remaining, with the other two killing and redirecting as necessary, and given today is potential LYLO instead of full-fledged LYLO, that theory has been basically debunked. For someone so insistent on discussing facts and roles, I find it very strange that you wouldn't notice this yourself.
You're correct, of course. But it takes time to think the roles through; I had done so in the past and correctly come to that conclusion, and as soon as I gave the girls the extra thought I said they needed I realised it again. Given that you had just asked me to post opinions and not logic or rolespeculation, I think it's a bit much for you to attack me for doing just that.
I am having a hard time reading the poke at my flavor as little more than reaching for a reason to discredit me.
It is. I search for every possible reason however small, and then conclude that everything I've found really is small and I still think your posts are better than those of AyB.
oh noes I tell people I'm gonna be gone clearly common courtesy is scummy! Really, you've harped on that being suspicious a few different times, and it just looks bad on your end.
It felt (rightly or wrongly) that every post was ending in "will be gone for a while, post more later". Which just strings us out and helps defer attention from your lack of content - there's always some just around the corner. Telling us you'll be gone for a while doesn't actually help us any.
if someone is saying they neither confirm nor deny X then... how does that change anything?
It does nothing except raise the noise and the confusion. Which is why it's scummy.
You're pushing for a Commie lynch in part due to info
I didn't do it due to info, I did it because I thought he was scum.
this is pretty much painfully obvious by the fact that you really don't seem to be interested in moving to me, who you even consider scummier by your own commentary.
Your roleclaim made you not worth lynching on that day. Following logic above whom I feel is most scummy is hardly something I've been inconsistent about.
Later in the day (page 10 for reference) you posit that scum would want to -roleblock their own person-. Yeah, no. Firstly, WIFOM, but even ignoring WIFOM it's silly and kinda stupid. Why deny scum the use of all whatever roles they have in a role madness game?
Maybe they had a scum with no roles, or pretty useless roles. I can see cases where it would be a valid strategy for N1. Of course it's WIFOM, the point is because it's WIFOM we shouldn't automatically clear someone because they claim to have been roleblocked on night 1.
So wait, even though I felt like the strongest case, someone you barely commented on beforehand suddenly surged forward there
Yes. You were the strongest of a weak lineup, I had only just started, and then Demotivate did the voteshift and I finally had something concrete to go on. And then as soon as I wondered whether I'd overreacted, he confirmed it by shifting his vote again. I felt more happier with my vote there than I had all day, and make no apology for that.
Except scum blocked the jacket quite willingly N2, remember? Before the roleclaim? You know, blocking the person that admitted that he was aiming at CCCCC with the role afterward?
Yes, they blocked the jacket, when the scum didn't know what the jacket was, because much as you might like to think otherwise, I am town.
So they clearly knew -what- it was and knew it was dangerous enough to block it, non?
Oh yeah, because there's no way the scum would ever want to use their rolecop on someone who's role they didn't know. That'd be completely crazy.
Not to mention that if scum had the jacket and were as scared as you seem to think of having it in town hands, the way to do that would've been to nightkill whoever they gave the jacket to on night 1.
Ninja, pretty much the same argument again. Have you somehow just forgotten that C-C-C-C was a rolecop?
Regardless, they saw fit to neutralize Soviet N2. Which leads into them knowing his role and thinking it important enough to stop the jacketswap
.
No it doesn't, because as we saw it did nothing to stop the jacket getting out. If that'd been what they wanted they'd've roleblocked and nightkilled - or as I said above, simply nightkilled on night 1. The fact that they saw fit to NK soviet on N3 doesn't in any way mean they were scared of the jacket, because they didn't take it out of play, and they would have known this by N3 since they had the rolecop result.
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Two corrections; the probability of getting a useful result by targeting someone suspicious was better than 1/3, because there are still two scum out there. But the point stands. And "more happier" is obviously meant to be something that makes grammatical sense.
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Alright. Xbox re-read. Trying my best not to make it hueg.
Day 1 - Defends Combo in his sole content post of the day, and he has no concrete cases on anyone. Maybe Soviet is a jester, maybe he's a noob, maybe he's scum - congrats, you've just proven absolutely NOTHING.
Day 2 - Replacement's first post says 'Touhou is insightful and making sense, therefore she might be scum leading us'. Uhh...paranoia much?
Talks about the lurkers, and conveniently doesn't mention Bel-Air within them.
His accusation of 2g1c for 'You haven't done anything to deserve being roleblocked' is facepalm inducing. Seriously, what the hell?
He then says that despite thinking 2g1c is scummier he wants to lynch Soviet for information. Sorry, the hell is this?
I didn't do it due to info, I did it because I thought he was scum.
Then what is this, exactly? (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100320.html#msg100320)
The Demotivational shift near the end of D2 is really the only thing that makes me a little uncertain. It still seems so random, so pointless, so anti-scum.
Day 3 - Still no mention of Bel-Air anywhere here until he masonclaims. Admittedly D3 is the day where we obvlynched Combo, but the fact he mentions Rick, Base and Shana and conveniently leaves the Fresh Prince out again for so long worries me.
Day 4 - I still really don't like the case that because Touhou claimed last she's scummy. True, her claim is the least useful, but her actual content thus far has been pretty high-quality.
The 'Maybe the busdriver is Town!' argument is pointless pointless pointless GAH WHY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THIS.
And the fact I can see more role speculation in your posts than actual hunting is also sort of infuriating.
Day 5 - Goes ahead with the 'Touhou hasn't done anything particularly bad BUT HER ROLE SEEMS TOO CONVENIENT SHE MUST BE SCUM' case. Which is, in short, still as stupid an idea as it was when Shana did it.
I've been holding that D2 switch to Demotivational as the one thing that made Xbox look more like stupid Townie than scum. But really, pressing this hard on Touhou just takes the goddamn cake (pun unintentional). I still think his convenient failure to mention Bel-Air for two and a half days is worth sniffing at a little as well, but honestly I gave him too much credit considering all he did was move from one townie to another townie.
##Vote: Hueg Liek Xbox
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Woah. What the hell? Before I get to anything else, let me just say this: Box, if scum is frightened of the jacket, then all they want is to keep it from being effective for town. Scum will always want to make the most of their roles. Hyper-focusing them onto one person doesn't help them, much. Now, had you said that they could have killed whoever you sent it to N1 more than "They could have roleblocked and killed" then, uhh... I would have been more likely to believe that you were innocent, as opposed to not aware that plenty of townies don't seem to have terribly useful roles, or somesuch. I dunno. There was something else, mind left me. Sorry if that doesn't make much sense. I have, however, thought of another notion. Give me a sec to travel down Theory Lane.
Night 1, scum gives Town the jacket, goes on with the rest of their roles. N2, they roleblock it, hoping to draw more information out of town. From there, they use the jacket to target whoever has it, hoping to kill power roles as the jacket-holder grabs for power themselves. (Or, y'know, tries to verify someone's role by grabbing it) I'm... not too certain which theory I find more likely, but I'm leaning towards the second one, as if scum is still scared of the jacket (which they probably should, since aside from ScumBox, for all we know their role sounds kinda scummy. Which reminds me of another reason why Shana was wrong about "one role being theme-related is suspicious": Breaker had a role that sounded like his name) then worst case scenario is that they get rid of it.
I dunno. Going around in mental circles there. Haven't really had much time for the game here lately, sorry guys.
What is your case on me right now, Touhou? Short and sweet, please. I need to go do something, but I'll be back soon and will have at least enough time to cover your case on me.
Also gonna question about why both AYB and Box are the only ones we have no clues about their roles, but I don't really wanna rolefish here, so I'll leave it alone for now. Just thought I'd get it out there.
Oh, and X-Box. Please don't quote bit-by-bit. All it does is make you a hypocrite, as you only use up more space, making yourself look like you're talking more than you are. (noise and confusion, anyone?)
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First off, everyone who thinks that my opening post is so scummy because of me yelling at Cake about the "gift": if I'm scum and Touhou's town, then there is no point for Touhou to lie about his role or his results, and if we're both scum then I could just have, y'know, told him about the gift in private during the night phase because y'know, scum can do that. Any scenario where me claiming this is somehow useful for perpetuating a scum-Touhou's fakeclaim has me as town. Which means I should not be lynched for that post. Think a little, seriously. Argh.
Secondly, !Cake, assuming two scum (which makes sense as today is only "Potential" LYLO as opposed to merely LYLO), then BelAir-Scum => Touhou-Scum, and thus XBox/BelAir cannot be scumbuddies. What are you on?
Back in a bit, just got online, had tons of classes, presentations, colloquia and problems to work on today.
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Secondly, !Cake, assuming two scum (which makes sense as today is only "Potential" LYLO as opposed to merely LYLO), then BelAir-Scum => Touhou-Scum, and thus XBox/BelAir cannot be scumbuddies. What are you on?
Besides the possibility of being untrackable/Godfather? This is a role madness game, remember.
And as for this being unlikely - well, that's why I've shifted my vote over to Xbox.
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(http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/9647/votecountad.png) (http://img705.imageshack.us/i/votecountad.png/)
Bel Air:(0) - Cake
Touhou Hijack:(1) - XBOX
XBOX:(1) - 2girls1cup, Cake
RIck & Roll: (1) - O R'LYEH!?
With 7 memes still commenting, it takes 4 votes to ban them from the internet.
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(http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/5708/nitorigoggles.jpg)
The box seems to misunderstand my comment about his missing the girls being role cleared. I am not attacking you for posting opinions. I am questioning why you would hold an opinion (that a Touhou/2G1C scum team is "entirely possible") that can be shown to be impossible simply via looking at facts and role results, a play style you yourself had been dedicated to prior.
Mr. Astley, I will try to summarize as best I can.
* Day 1 lurking + uninspiring hop to Milhouse at the end of the day for reasons you apparently couldn't articulate (and still have not beyond claiming gut, near as I can tell; if you eventually did, please do link me, as I might have missed it)
* Trying to pass the blame to me for your Day 1 hammer vote (I'll admit this might be tinged with OMGUS, but I still think you could have easily explained/defended your decision without trying to drag me into it)
* Unsatisfactory reasoning for your vote for the girls, which you yourself later admitted and chalked up to a misread
* Trying to direct Cake's bonus kill (this looks a bit worse than normal night action direction in light of scum's redirecting power)
* Pushing the Russia train back in front of the Breaker train
* Doing this without even acknowledging the Breaker case
* Blatant mudslinging at Advice Dog in your numerical list
There is a "bullet hell" pun in there somewhere.
There is also the issue of your quick jump at CATS to open today, though I have done further musings on the subject myself and believe I can see where the girls are coming from in their revised assessment (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101456.html#msg101456). Nevertheless, I wish to hear your reasoning first (for what should be obvious reasons) before casting judgment on your action there.
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(http://imgur.com/gWVbz.jpg) (http://imgur.com/gWVbz.jpg)
Day 4:
Link's Ocarina of Time (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100980.html#msg100980). 0 /// Already commented on this line and what it triggered as a thought process in me. /// Role speculation, woohoo /// Mmm, yes, Rick kinda very vaguely first made the point, XBox then said it more clearly, and then I just kinda spelled it out (yes, I was third and kinda being mimic bird there). /// 0; comments on the Touhou obviousclaims /// 0; commentary on the three-scum theory which is currently pretty much debunked /// Tosses in - finally - a justification for that Demotivator vote, seemingly abandoning any thoughts of the claimed pressure on me. Okay.
Link's Mask of teh Majoraness (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101168.html#msg101168). A bunch of whinging and setting up for potential Town Busdriver claim when the Bus Driver has A) had the potential to come out, explain their actions and their reasoning, and tried to aid in the lynching of scum, but instead has chosen to remain hidden and cause mischief, and B) been behind a lot of the mischief N2/3 anywho. In addition he derides people trying to clear based on roles when he's been running most the game based on role theory. Wait, what? Also a bunch of theorycruft on proper claim order that doesn't matter a whit because it didn't happen. /// More potentialcruft, from how it reads; discussion of game that didn't happen (what would have happened if x roles switched instead, as far as I can tell). /// 0. This part is mostly accurate, Combo Breaker wasn't really ever mentioned by XBox seriously. /// Commentary to me... I think I didn't answer this? It's pure theorycruft anyway and kinda pointless to answer regardless, and since I'm not content to play theorycruft -and- it's a basic logic step, eh. If you really need to know, outside of rolefusion that makes no sense, Soviet would have said if you had the swap role/Touhou/Demotive at the time/others could be cleared of swapper role easily just due to having an active role present. (I say it now because who the hell cares?) /// More vague pushings for dead Touhou as a good idea and that someone who sounds townie can't be trusted just like you thought and oh, wow. Man, I miss ABri- I mean ADoggie, he'd be chewing this like newspaper. I don't have the heart after a point, it's just not good play and it rings horribly scummy.
Skimming a bit from here, I love how I'm still tentatively cleared in this post despite being the only real possible target of CCCCCC and why the hell would scum use the ability on their own, again? Reaching, much? And again, this runs off the theorycruft you love. And yet despite wondering if Touhou is best off dead you rate him second best, just behind Astley... who you just say is posting similarly to you. Kay. List commentating, admitting again to voting not based on who's scummiest (last did this day 2, where he didn't vote on me but instead was on Russia) based on solid, if bad-motivation, theorycrufting (if Bel-Air's scum we get Touhou, too! ...is how it reads. No, if you really think Bel-Air's scum make the case, outline it very well (and be ready to argue that Touhou's either scum or Bel-Air's untrackable/godfather/whatthehellchristever, I stare into bastard moddery later if needed but not right now), don't do it because of what is effectively the info we get (Touhou's alignment), nevermind that Belair being town can't clear Touhou...)...
Link's Wind Waker (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101184.html#msg101184) More focusing on the night 2 and the swapper and what I can't help but feel more and more is an absolute distraction/waste of time/pointless exercise, let's actually hunt for scum people and stop farting around about what the mystical swiper stop swiping role can do. // Already addressed this earlier. Kinda still wary of it but whatevs, moving on. /// Commentary on Demotive's logic, this is actually semi-decent. /// Defense of his own comments from !cake (This is admittedly another part of what makes this hard to do, and this is a pot kettle black moment for myself; he quotes but the quote doesn't reference the post, so I can't figure out what he's quoting and need to search for it).
Skipping down to here, Link's Awakening GBC (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101205.html#msg101205) -... actually, wate, the section you quoted kinda proves my point - I said even I don't know if they have my role info or not there. So yours still kinda sounds like a slipup. I let it pass since I read it previously w/ fever and kinda went "o okeh"- but wow, no, I never said I thought they knew the details of my role, just the role as in rolename. Righty-o. Anyways, back to the rest of it... first paragraph is suggestion on how to test Shiki's role, okay whatever ultimately irrelevant, and then an attack on AyB before saying AyB's looking better... which AyB himself comments on here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101291.html#msg101291), for reference.
Link's Oracle of Seasons (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101298.html#msg101298) The problem is your theorycruft/rolelogic has been mainly a whole lot of leading nowhere, and yet it has been an impetus for votes to be placed for most of the game, which is incredibly querulous; furthermore, it's created a lot of static and distracted discussion from hunting down scum in favor of trying to play the role game. In a role madness game. Doesn't work. Really, this comment applies to most that entire post, I don't really have much else to say to the XBox/AYB argument as I'm not convinced that AYB's innocent myself, but.
This is just a few posts further down (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101300.html#msg101300) and twists one of my own favorite maxims pretty painfully. Town benefits from information, oh yes. But town does not benefit from relentless theorycrufting. Unless it pins scum by itself, it is useless except as -secondary- to actual argument - and this is perhaps my biggest issue. You have barely presented your own arguments, your own dissections on why people might be scum or town or what have you other than vague concerns on x or y looks good or z looks bad but is cleared by role. Theorycruft has been front and center nearly constantly. Hell, rereading my own commentary, theorycruft is front and center in my responses. This is kinda not good. Also you say at the end that you want to start explicitly directing night actions. Uhhhh yeah that cheers me up regarding you a lot.
That pretty much wraps up the D4 stuff. I'm honestly a bit less certain. Not enough to move me still, barring a damn good argument, and I'll reply to your comments tomorrow, XBox. In short, though, saying you're town doesn't move our little hearts of stone and mudslides, and there seems to be a lot of backpedaling on cases in that. But I'll get to it later, and I'd like to make cases on a few more people just in case today/tonight do not go so well, so.
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Cake:
I still really don't like the case that because Touhou claimed last she's scummy.
Her claim was made last, meaning she can pick and choose how to make it fit in with everyone else's claims. She only maid the claim when she'd been seen targeting cake, and has given us no information from her role that wasn't already claimed. Yes, her content has been good, but that doesn't make it impossible for her to be scum.
The 'Maybe the busdriver is Town!' argument is pointless pointless pointless GAH WHY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THIS.
Because I want to get it right. I don't want town to be clearing people based on roles when we've missed another possibility.
Astley:
Now, had you said that they could have killed whoever you sent it to N1
I did say that.
Oh, and X-Box. Please don't quote bit-by-bit. All it does is make you a hypocrite, as you only use up more space, making yourself look like you're talking more than you are.
How else am I supposed to respond to specific accusations? Go for the girls' one-link technique?
AyB:
if I'm scum and Touhou's town, then there is no point for Touhou to lie about his role or his results
Yes, but town Touhou would've been able to prove to the rest of us that they were town, by telling us who cake targeted. Which possibility you had just destroyed. And if Touhou proves they are town that proves (modulo crazy roles) you are scum, which you would obviously want to sabotage.
And more 2g1c. I won't respond to everything (how can I?), and going through each of my posts line by line to claim they're all reportery is pushing hypocrisy further than I thought possible. While I don't want to push this too hard, I don't see why I'm even under consideration when we have one of Touhou or AyB is definitely scum, but whatever. I will respond to a few things.
I think I didn't answer this? It's pure theorycruft anyway and kinda pointless to answer regardless, and since I'm not content to play theorycruft -and- it's a basic logic step, eh.
Then why mention it at all? If you post something based on logic and make you logic public, it gives other people a chance to spot any mistakes; if you just say "X can't be whatever, basic logical leap I don't care to elaborate on right now", it a) sounds kinda like you've got rolestuff reasons rather than just using what's public and b) just makes it harder for everyone else.
(if Bel-Air's scum we get Touhou, too! ...is how it reads. No, if you really think Bel-Air's scum make the case, outline it very well (and be ready to argue that Touhou's either scum or Bel-Air's untrackable/godfather/whatthehellchristever, I stare into bastard moddery later if needed but not right now), don't do it because of what is effectively the info we get (Touhou's alignment), nevermind that Belair being town can't clear Touhou...)
I really thought, and think, Bel-Air is scummiest. Because of the complete lack of content, if it needs that much spelling out. Was this unclear?
Why didn't I want to lynch Bel-Air then and there? a) exactly, Bel-Air's flip tells us nothing about Touhou, or anyone else, but more importantly b) I was hoping last night would give Touhou chance to prove they were town, which would clear Bel-Air without needing any deaths.
I said even I don't know if they have my role info or not there.
That's not how I read it; you said they know your role, and then that this makes it useless or not depending on how much "info" they have. Which I took to mean that your role is somehow dependent on some other info about the rest of the roles/game, and ignored as more of the random zero-information hints that you love dropping about your role.
saying you're town doesn't move our little hearts of stone and mudslides
And it certainly shouldn't, but how else am I supposed to respond to "you're scum, because the scum did this and you're scum", which seems to be the basis of your jacket argument.
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Ok, I'd been ignoring the attacks on theory as just a different playstyle, but turns out I do want to respond to it.
Unless it pins scum by itself, it is useless except as -secondary- to actual argument - and this is perhaps my biggest issue.
For most of D3 I thought it pinned the scum to one among two, which at that point would have pretty much won the game for town. Yes, turns out I was wrong - which shows why it was worth posting. If I hadn't posted it I'd be sitting here thinking Touhou was in the clear.
The phrase "secondary" seems a bit much. Theory should surely be used first, to tell you who to concentrate your scumhunting attentions on, rather than after you've already picked your suspicions.
Yes, I'm not as good at scumhunting as I am at theory, which is why theory is more prominent in my posts. I've posted what opinions I have, and whenever I saw what looked like a slip in someone's post I pointed that out (which got me nothing but grief). No, I haven't done post-by-post "dissections" of people I think are scummy. If you really think they're helpful I can do; I don't really see the use myself (summarizing what they've posted so far, yes. But going through each post individually and looking at it in the worst or best light, isn't that just reporting?)
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Bolding things I really want looked at. If it's crap, tell me, but I'd appreciate feedback.
While I don't want to push this too hard, I don't see why I'm even under consideration when we have one of Touhou or AyB is definitely scum, but whatever.
That sprung right up while reading over the post. I'm gonna throw my support (so, uhh, one half of Rick Roll) behind lynching the guy who's been hinting at more information and whatnot more than once or twice. 2g1c has covered the other stuff. But not even mentioning me as a possibility, or Bel-Air, smells far too off (http://tracyjb.deviantart.com/art/Sheep-28677218) to just be a verbal gaff.
Touhou: I'll respond to those in order, as best I can.
- You're gonna have to talk to Rick about that
- Where... did I even once give a name about that? Link if you can find it, please
- I was more trying to create any sort of case I could, because I didn't want to come in from charges of lurking, only to... not have anything to offer. And while bad, I still believe it to be better than literally nothing.
- I find it rather amusing that the night after I admit wanting Dog's head on a silver platter, and talk about directing NK's, both just so happen to come out as I'd wanted them the day before. Gonna theorize that either Scumbox got something like that from Russia, or it becomes relevant only after something that happened D2, like talking about directing Night Actions. But, what do I know, right? Aside from that, there's no way to defend against that charge, so next.
- I thought he was scum, what can I say?
- You can ask Bel-Air. XBox and Breaker were both headaches that I didn't even want to consider at the time, because they were, far as I was concerned, a big clusterfuck. I didn't want to wade through all that slog any more than necessary to try and decipher bad town from scum, and I had already convinced myself of both Dog and Russia.
- Again, thought they were scum.
As for my thing on AYB, well, I've kinda been looking at him funky for a while now, and his first post of the day is actually quite the contradiction, if you'd be so pleased as to note it. (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101439.html#msg101439) First thing he says is that you need to claim your night results immediately. This shows he's been paying attention to how we're keeping tabs on you. Then, he goes on to make a night action claim of his own, and berate !cake for using his, despite him knowing it wouldn't work. This shows that he has not been paying attention to how we're keeping tabs on you. (And as for people wondering why I'm "convinced that was what was going to happen" I wasn't. I just wanted to make sure you didn't have any sort of avenue for escape, because scumTouhou could have then easily claimed following !cake to AYB, and nobody but scum would've known it was a lie) Also want to point out that he mentioned having a case on XBox, which has now been lost over 24 hours past when he mentioned it would "be done very soon." And that he has posted twice since then.
I'm going to say that the only suspects, really, are me, Bel-Air, Touhou, XBox, and AYB. I know I'm Town (which isn't helpful to anyone else, blah) so I'm looking at Bel-Air, Touhou, XBox, and AYB. Scum Bel-Air means scum Touhou. Town Touhou means Town Bel-Air. Nothing else confirms or denies anything else about them. I am... more lenient to believe TownTouhou after Demo flipped his role name, but role madness has me staying my hand from making it absolute. However, this does lead me to believe that we almost definitely have scumpairings of Bel-Air/Touhou or Box/AYB.
I'm sorry to skip out on you guys now, but my head really isn't with me right now, and I don't trust myself to go through things nearly as much as I do some others. (Most notably 2g1c) Could you please go through those theories more thoroughly for me? If they're at all believable, I mean. (If they are, you'll probably be doing it anyway, so I mostly mean vocalizing them for me) If not, then you can just say so to my face. S'all good. Anyway, night.
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Rick, I think you've missed something important. Town Touhou means Scum AYB, because neither you, me or bel-air could be a busdriver. Conversely, Town AYB means Scum Touhou. Which is why I said "we have one of Touhou or AyB is definitely scum".
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Edited something I missed into my last votecount, just so everyone knows.
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I still don't get where you don't think I could be a busdriver. We've already seen that role madness is, indeed, role madness (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MboeozTBgD8). Also, this has been Roll all day, not Rick. Don't really know where Rick's been...
Anyway, gonna make sure that I get my intention to vote for XBox or AYB today, barring a true revelation, out there.
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(http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/5144/nitoritheyreherknees.jpg)
The box sort of jumps the gun on my thoughts regarding CATS' outburst - I had wished to hear Astley talk about it first, just to make sure that was his reasoning - but ultimately it's a relatively minor point. That was the conclusion I came to myself, yes. I do not understand why he claims Mr. Astley could not be the redirectional role, though.
You never explicitly stated my name, Mr. Astley, but you used Miss Whiterock's words (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99981.html#msg99981) in your rebuttal, emphasized in bold added by me for the purposes of this post:
However, after that, I got pestered a whole bunch to make a "meaningful vote" so I did. With about an hour left in the day, anyway. Got a problem with it? Don't take it up with me.
Next, about my content. That self-proclaimed 'worthless' vote also had a reason behind it, and the hammervote was as sudden as the people yelling at me for not doing it earlier.
This is why I felt you were trying to shift the blame for your hammer vote to me. I felt referencing this unnecessary when you could have just said "I had already declared an intent to hammer" (because you did) and left it at that.
It is very unlikely that the box received a redirectional role from the Russian; if nothing else, the Russian would have said so on Day 3, given he firmly believed the redirection to be a scum tool.
I think that, while your theorizing about the nature of CATS' day-opening post may be true, it may have also been an honest mistake. CATS needs to address that himself, however - I'm not going to posit specific theories that he himself can then use in defense. It is also true that he needs to get in here and post his Xbox case, which is going on far more than 24 hours since first promised. Anything from Bel Air would also be nice, if you can prompt him in mason chat or something, as I would really rather not be lynched due to his indiscretions.
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(http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/724/nitoricucumber.jpg)
Actually, in looking back at Miss Whiterock's post, she used "meaningful train" instead of "meaningful vote", and I can possibly see how you also felt pressured by CATS, so I suppose you may have chosen "meaningful vote" yourself.
The whole thing still feels like trying to unnecessarily shift the blame for the hammer, though.
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Gonna be blunt (http://www.madore.org/~david/images/cards/english/jack-clubs.png) here, and tell you that I talked to Rick about that before I said anything. His words (paraphrased, because I can't remember them exactly) were, "I didn't want to hammer yet, but people kept me pestering me for not doing it, so I did. That's all there was to it." I wasn't referencing anyone when I was explaining the hammer vote, aside from Rick a couple of times. I also said that, instead of just saying that an intent had been declared, because I didn't feel it anything actually valid to be concerned about. Oh no. We lost an hour. Boo hoo. Do I need to pull out the world's tiniest violin?
As for the rest of what you said... XBox talks about AYB's outburst? Must have missed that. (Though, really, I missed most of what was said after what I quoted in my previous post)
Gonna re-read Box's latest posts, then, to see what he said about not-role-theory.
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/me twitches a little bit
You did not just partial-quote me to make me look worse/make your defense look better, did you? Oh yes you did. (Also, yes. Please do use the one-link technique, or at least the link technique. It is so very much easier to read, and reduces the clutter)
God. Damn. First point you have for me. (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101571.html#msg101571) If you're going to quote, quote the whole damn thing. See this? (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101525.html#msg101525) That's the post you quote from. If people would be so kind as to look in the middle of the first paragraph, you'll notice that there is more to what I said than what XBox quotes. Seriously, though. Don't. Fucking. Misrepresent what I say. I will slit your throat and feed you your own organs. And then, when they all slip out and are useless, I will make you new organs to feed you. But I'll make them originally part of you, so I get the pleasure of ripping them out of you again. Got that? Do ya'? You'd better.
As for the thing about AYB, yeah, I mostly skipped over that. Reading through what XBox says is difficult and mostly pointless. His posts are almost always 99% noise, and a complete waste of my time to read. (Turns out that one wasn't, as there were two things I was able to pull out of it)
Anyway, after some cooling off... I am more sold on AYB and XBox. They both seem to be the only ones creating more noise than anything else (unless I'm doing the same. Sorry if I am) and they are both throwing theories and information out there they shouldn't be, when I honestly believe that everyone should know better than to do that by now.
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Hmph. Life hits like a hurricane. Present for a bit regardless, and kinda frustrated, some decent discussion but not much more in terms of actually trying to ferret out the remainder of the scum. Kinda worrisome, to me; yes, I've sorta taken the lead via pretty much roaring like a tiger out the gate, sure, but uh uhm further participation from the rest of the game might help, yanno?
Promised responses to XBox, gonna keep this brief: saying you're Town doesn't move me. The reason why is basic and logical. Putting emphasis on claiming you're town in your posts reads, uh... I don't really know a good way to put it so I just won't say anything there and move on.
A few comments that really are null points (no, people pointed out my lack of content early on. You just chose to comment on my choosing to say when I'd be back around. IOW the two do not connect, one does not manage to Optical Camo the other, etc.,.) ... uh... okay, dude, either you're really really bad at throwing up things that trigger my "wait WHAT"dar or you just tripped up -again-... Link to the post is here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101513.html#msg101513).
I had already decided I was going to track people I was suspicious of (and stated this publicly when I announced my Bel Air results)
This was your public position, but had you decided to track cake for the sake of clearing yourself to town (which frankly would have been of more benefit to town, it would've given us one confirmed scum (AyB) wheras you only had a 1/3 chance by going for someone suspicious), you would hardly have announced the fact and told the busdriver who to target.
[/quote]
Okay. Maybe I'm being stupid. Again, this reads seriously like a trip (how the hell would you know that AyB would be confirmed scum by this (not in general, I acknowledge that you seem to be drawing on logic here but this just seem really really sour here) in a role madness game, again?), but go ahead and explain your logic, whatever it might be.
Reading on, disagreement in general with you but whatever on multiple of the points, skimming skimming...
I don't believe you yet on one of AyB or Touhou being determinedly scum! Relies too much on believing we can read the mod's mind/know the setup/staring into the mind of bastard moddery, IOW I don't believe we can reduce the busdriver to one of those two. About the three people that the busdriver can't be as of right now? You, me (though I can't prove this, mind. So let's just ignore this one for now), Touhou (jackets!). 5/7, 4/7 if you take my word. Numbers game, woooooo~ Outside of Touhou who arguably might have just lost it and me, 6/7. You're relying way too much on theorycruft and trying to stare into the mind of the mod to reduce this down. And that's yet another reason why I don't hesitate to keep the pressure up on you - you're trying to pare this down way too hard and way too fast in role madness when we don't have all the details in role madness to just one or two targets to the exclusion of all rest in role madness.
Skimming bit more, arguments pointless to get into honestly, gameplay style argument, we can keep that to aftergame, but yeah I disagree kinda bluntly put. That's it for now, gonna quickly assemble a few more arguments though I'm -not- getting into as much detail, I just don't have the time.
NINJA NINJA RICK AND ROLL:
God. Damn. First point you have for me. (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101571.html#msg101571) If you're going to quote, quote the whole damn thing. See this? (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101525.html#msg101525) That's the post you quote from. If people would be so kind as to look in the middle of the first paragraph, you'll notice that there is more to what I said than what XBox quotes. Seriously, though. Don't. Fucking. Misrepresent what I say. I will slit your throat and feed you your own organs. And then, when they all slip out and are useless, I will make you new organs to feed you. But I'll make them originally part of you, so I get the pleasure of ripping them out of you again. Got that? Do ya'? You'd better.
(http://imgur.com/6WviD.jpg) (http://imgur.com/6WviD.jpg) "I think I just lost my position as most crude meme. Back in a bit, working on those arguments."
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Ack. Sorry about that. Meant to have that post done awhile ago, wound up doing multiple assignments that were due earlier than I thought instead. Sorry about that. Catching up and posting cases in a bit.
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(http://imgur.com/scYEq.jpg) (http://imgur.com/scYEq.jpg)
Bel-Air Breakdown!
Day One: One post, really, here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99794.html#msg99794). ...this isn't bad, honestly. Points out the big flaw in Soviet's no-lynch - rely on power role stirrup, using reasoning that IIRC hadn't been pushed yet. Checking, semi-confirmed - logic was kinda brushed on but this is probably the best elaboration that was given on this end. Rest of the post, uh, looks fine for what was presented in day 1, if minimal on anything else going on.
No wait I'm wrong, my memory failed me! Second post yo (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99903.html#msg99903), and... hum. Calls out Milhouse and Breaker, too, and while I don't quite agree with the Milhouse counter (Milhouse was reading town in general all game to me, though admittedly there was a bit of meta there as I figured out who he was pretty soon in. I know. I shouldn't rely on meta, but this is one of the few cases I'm ever comfortable doing that. And then he suicided and I facepalm'd quietly.), the Breaker poke... huh, he kinda has a point, and it's kinda amusing - he's calling out Breaker before most others started to, as well. Mmm. Someone else verify that this call-out looks valid? At a quick glance through it seems like Bel-Air caught this correctly, though.
Day 2: sup? (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100390.html#msg100390) Okay, that post? Pretty much "me too!". On the other hand it votes for Combo Breaker (who he had established suspicions for before, mind) and does so at a decently important point (this is the first in a series of... four votes? to move to CCCCC.) Mmmm.
Then... present (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100456.html#msg100456) this. Objects to problematic Russian logic, switches votes to him. Not quite sure what to say here. On the other hand, did some vote breakdown analysis, not sure how much of it holds water... mmm. Switches his vote based on info which I always find kinda problematic, even as tiebreaker which is what he claimes it as. Moving on for now.
(As a note, referencing Touhou Hijack's commentary on these two posts here: greetings (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.275.html). I'm not sure I -agree-, mind; note that Bel-Air had been eyeing CCCCC for longer than Touhou gives credit for, as well as Soviet. Yes, it's still suspicious, as Touhou points out, but this is relevant for something else I wanted to point out - the Bel-Air track was somewhat foreshadowed by this.)
Day 3, mason claim, no real content there of relevance but here's the link guten tag (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100628.html#msg100628) for reference. Another post same page contentless moving on this was day 3 I'm not sure anyone cared.
Oh, wait, right. This bonjour (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100784.html#msg100784) and this hola (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100861.html#msg100861), the posts that led to my own train of suspicions regarding the whole jacket shenanigan events and all that, and honestly I agree in part with his logic even though it does rely (like mine does) on some theorycrufting on its own. Regardless, this... it's new reasoning that no one else brought out on someone that was kinda under suspicion but not really since Touhou/multiple others were the primary under fire people at the time. Gets marks for it, at least to me.
Day 4 represent! (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101167.html#msg101167) annnnd back to being incredibly iffy on a lot of points. Joy. Theorycruft on jacket. Disapproval, even though the end conclusion I agree with; sure, scum could keep it, doesn't feel like optimal decision for scum, does kinda for town. But again, theorycruft, I shouldn't indulge that side of me, I'm bad at not indulging me. At the least he's logical on the Touhou thing, though the lack of any other opinion worries from there.
Then holla (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101287.html#msg101287), critiques the focus narrow to busdriver hunt (yay, small little part of heart warmed up), comments on the tunnel vision on the then-present behavior of Touhou (mmm. Some people were, some weren't. Note to self, go check and see who was. I know I'd been neutral on her all game as opposed to the rest of you who seemed to think she'd been doing good commentary but, hey! I was wrong in voting for her. :/ Really wish she hadn't given up like that.), reiterates the touhou comment, expresses... disapproval of the rolename? Uh, okay, whatever. Mmm.
So! Minimal content, even day content's not too impressive by any stretch of the word at all. But... Day 1 and day 3 do not read that bad to me, honestly. Yes, he is low on content. But what is there? Seems pretty decent overall. While by no means clearing him, I'm surprisingly thinking he's town (I came into this expecting to be making my argument for the final scum, my impression all game had been much along the lines of "no content lurking". That's not quite the case, I'd contend. He's actually put forth stuff no one else has. Sparse content, though, sure.)
The case I'd present on Bel-Air: lurking, tunnel-vision, the day 2 swap off of CCCC to Russia, some light mudslinging day 4 toward Touhou via being suspicious of the name. The theorycrufting here is being used to partially back a case, while I feel Bel-Air lets it take up too much of the weight of the case he's actually honing the focus and thus I'm willing to null tell it. However, to avoid hypocrisy, let's include that too.
However, good day 1/3 content (yes, I'm willing to call the day 3 theorycruft that. Even if it ends up town!XBox, he raised a logical extension of a case to push forward his views.), the swap on day 2 -was- shadowed more than people have admitted... really, he's mainly just lurker-level, and this goes back to an argument that was going on day 1-2 either here or Hero Mafia. It's not just lurking that's scummy - it's lurking and doing nothing with it that's scummy. I'd argue he doesn't fit that. Any arguments to the contrary?
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Astley: Augh, sorry. Will get to your bolded commentary at the top of the page probably tomorrow. I'm sorry to drag this day out, but when you don't know if you'll live to see tomorrow and you want to try and win this and no one's really talking too much, it's not too much to ask, I figure. I haven't missed those comments, though. I just haven't gotten to them yet and I wanted that case out.
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A lot of the points against Xbox 360 have already been covered by 2G1C, so in the interests of keeping my posts as brief as possible, this post will first talk about the major/interesting points that I found myself and then comment on 2G1C's case. Incidentally, XBox 360 is beyond horrible. In what aspects? Well, let's see:
#1) "Gotcha!" games: for instance, take his Soviet Russia (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100286.html#msg100286) vote post. Plenty of terrible things about Soviet Russia (though not too many of them are actually ones that imply scumminess, as I mentioned multiple times D2), and he goes for...a sentence which is explaining that an obvious joke is, in fact, y'know, a joke? The Too Townie bollocks he follows up with doesn't make this post look any better. But let's see what XBox 360 does with his vote and "case" on Soviet: a post stating that he actually wants to lynch 2G1C, but wants to put the Commie under pressure. Now, the reasoning behind why pressure votes are stupid has been covered multiple times in this game so I won't repeat it, but it's especially stupid if you outright claim that your vote is, in fact, a pressure vote because it removes any and all pressure that was attempted to be placed on that person, thus making the vote basically 100% useless. Then he backpedals and states that it wasn't a pure pressure vote, that he still wouldn't mind Russia lynched. Which is it, XBox 360?
Now let's look at his vote jump onto Demote. (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100418.html#msg100418) What does it take to make XBox 360 switch his vote from someone he is "pressuring" onto someone else, someone who is not their preferred lynch target for the day, for that matter? Um, I'm not even sure. That post seems to be implying that XBox 360 thinks that Demote's vote is a pure pressure vote (insert obvious pot/kettle/black statement here), and completely ignores the statement from Demote that "I'm somewhat amazed that 2g1c can't see the case on -2C. The weak vote switching is by far the worst thing to me, and am happy to see him go today based on that alone, to be honest.". Good job. Isn't the first time you've done selective quoting, and evidently it certainly won't be the last, either. Sigh. Anyway, now that I realised that Demote was voting for Breaker, his votejump makes sense: attempt to target a townie that looks weak enough to start a case on, while staying off the townie Soviet train so as not to look terrible once Soviet would flip as town if he were to be lynched D2, which makes sense considering his reasoning for being on Soviet was terribad in the first place! Even though there was good reasoning! Anyway, let's go over to a third case of his, and then note what all of these three cases have in common:
His "XBox-sized poast", wherein he votes me. (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101168.html#msg101168) Reasoning? Misrep, due to a typo. So fine, no issue for the initial accusation, though it's interesting that the relevant typo is hardly actually relevant for the majority of my case on him, and if anything makes it a bit weaker. Defers people to Astley's case, which he later admits he did not read. Sigh. (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101184.html#msg101184) Then, again, does a reread and claims I come out of it looking better than he thought (though he still leaves his vote on me because...sure.) Today's casing isn't any better, he has yet to form any solid case on anyone.
But! What do all of these three cases have in common with each other? (other than the fact that they're awful.) They're all based around Gotcha-Games(TM) at their core. The Soviet Case/Vote is as a result of a "gotcha!" on Soviet's obvious In Soviet Russia, Town Nightkill Scum! joke, the Demote Case/Vote is as a result of a "gotcha!" on Demote specifying that he was bringing Breaker up to L-2, i.e. "using post numbers to justify his case" (even when that wasn't the justification and you clearly missed the justification two paragraphs above the vote, goddamnit), and his Case/Vote on me is as a result of a "gotcha!" on me accidentally claiming that he jumped from Soviet to Breaker instead of Soviet to Demote. Now, why are gotcha-games terribad? Because they aren't scumhunting, all they catch are minor mistakes, which quite often aren't even potential scumtells, let alone definite scumtells. Moreover, why are they scummy? Because they're easy for scum to use (just skim poasts until you find something that stands out), on the surface they seem convincing ("holy crap XBox 360 found a potential scum slip-up!"), and they make it easier to justify voting for someone who at the time is potentially an unpopular lynch candidate, such as in this case, Demote.
#2) The interaction between Breaker and XBox 360. First, on Breaker's end: interesting how his D1 post doesn't mention XBox 360 among the lurker pool. Then D2 he does his infamous place-a-vote-he's-going-to-move-anyway-on-XBox-360 and then awkwardly backpedals to Soviet once poked about this by Advice Dog. Now, on XBox's end: D1 he basically was Not Exist, D2 he...doesn't really mention Breaker at all until Meelhouse's post. Seriously, he not only does not see the case on Breaker, he pretty much ignores Breaker completely. Even after stating that he was going to look at Breaker in his initial post, he never returns to it once it is pointed out to him that Dawg is, in fact, dead. Considering that this was the competing train to the Soviet Russia train for most of the day, um, wtf? Seriously.
#3) Setupcruft. So many of his posts are setup speculation, and trying to clear people on setup/role alone. Discounting the fact that people can potentially lie about roles, we're playing a bastard mod role madness setup. Setup speculation and "analysis" thus has the potential to lead us to large amounts of failure. So why is XBox going on about it all the time? Good fucking question. He even goes as far as to state that this is useful in this post, (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101573.html#msg101573) or at least attempt to, because I'm not even sure what point he tries to make there. Fine, so you're better at theory than scumhunting. Okay. Theory is not enough on its own, it must be backed up by scumhunting, as pointed out by 2G1C. Furthermore, the sheer ludicrous VOLUME of your theorycrufting is just astounding. Seriously, at least prune some of that shit before posting it, a good chunk of it is irrelevant, nonsensical or ultimately just pointless and won't catch scum at all, and could even doom town if by accident you cleared a scum as town and persisted in this opinion as long as you were alive.
So why post so much of it? Especially after accusing me of being too wordy? Especially after wondering if you yourself were posting too much meaningless garbage here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101300.html#msg101300), for that matter.
But hey, giving yourself the illusion of being both extremely active and extremely helpful for town is great from a scum standpoint! Which is why this is scummy. As opposed to sticking to "truths" that are most of the time irrelevant and more importantly don't actually tell us where you stand on any players! This playstyle is extremely good if you want a playstyle that is totally nonconducive to determining alignment, which seems to be what you're doing.
There are even more things, such as misrep on your own part (see: Astley), and attempting to tie together potential scumpartners for extremely non-obvious reasons, as well as implying that one person being town makes another person scum and vice-versa, similarly for extremely questionable reasons (see, again: Astley, 2G1C), but those 3 are the main ones.
This post is already long enough and I need to go do something else right now, so will get to commentary in my next post.
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(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/824/nitorilarge.jpg)
There is no need to pull the world's tiniest violin out on my account, Mr. Astley, as I have been able to invent it myself in the time since my last post. The whole process was surprisingly speedy, even for me. Anyway, I still think your Day 1 consciousness might be overblowing the outside circumstances of his hammer a little, but that particular point is relatively minor in the grand scheme of things I hold against you.
I expect I will vote for the box over Mr. Astley at this point. I have spoken my piece about him in days past with some more today/at the end of yesterday, and multiple other parties have brought forth their own issues with/solid cases on him, issues/cases with which I find myself agreeing (though I think Mr. Astley could do with a little less vitriol, as amusingly jarring as it is when mentally read in the man's voice). The two things restraining me from putting my vote down now are an explanation for the theory that Mr. Astley can't be the redirector (because I really want to hear this) and a desire to hear anything from the Bel Air Academy, which has now gone over 48 hours in silence.
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Ok, I'll try this way. Post from AyB (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101658.html#msg101658).
I thought demote was vote-switching too easily, and that he was voting to get in on whatever lynch was happening; his move onto C-C-C-C came after everyone else's, and I didn't see much justification, particularly when as you've dug up, "weak vote-switching" is the main part of his case.
No, I didn't say much about C-C-C-C. I had nothing to say. I didn't see the case against him, which I said; after that, I had nothing to add.
Yes, I have been posting a lot of theory. Given how complex the reasoning is and how easy it is to get it wrong or miss something, I maintain that it's worth having the reasoning out in the open. Avoiding the possibility that I would "doom town if by accident you cleared a scum as town and persisted in this opinion as long as you were alive" is precisely why I post the full reasoning rather than just the conclusions, so that any mistakes are obvious.
Touhou:
an explanation for the theory that Mr. Astley can't be the redirector (because I really want to hear this)]/quote]
It's simply that whether or not he's scum, he's still a mason - if he's scum and bel-air is scum then you must also be scum, which is too many. And while a scum-mason-busdriver is not absolutely impossible, it does seem very unlikely.
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More unlikely than a Town Busdriver (http://www.mpsaz.org/lehi/information/transportation/images/school_bus.jpg)?
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>______<
So I just got a message from Bel Air asking for a replacement. In potential LYLO. That's...seventeen shades of not fair, to be frank. D1 or 2 replacements, fine. Even day 3 isn't unreasonable. Day 5? Ugh.
Buuuut, Modkill ending the day rule in potential LYLO is badness. I can't do that either. This rule was pretty much just to prevent people from pulling any "oh I'll force a modkill on myself so town doesn't mislynch me today" antics. That and because of the Cassandra role.
So this leaves me doing this:
Bel Air will be modkilled at the end of the day, regardless of who gets lynched. I'll flip him right now though, Town Albino Tomato.
And that turns today into definate LYLO instead of merely potential LYLO.
Sorry about this, but that seems like the best possible option for the game.
EDIT: It's been pointed out to me that giving his flip is the same thing as modkilling him now, but since the flip turns it into Official LYLO instead of Potential LYLO, I kinda have to. So yeah, for all intents and purposes, consider him dead. No more posts from Bel Air, his alignment is clear, etc. I'll just do the 'official' flip along with whoever is lynched at the end of the day.
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In light of this, requesting all votes off until we are determined in our choice. While this does not change my opinion on XBox, it's just good play and I'm cautious and nervous and all that jazz.
Bel-Air being town is a slight relief - I wasn't misreading him. Disappointed we won't here more from him, though, and kinda frustrated about the whole situation in general. This doesn't say much about anything else, but.
I'll likely toss together a quick analysis on the remaining two people I think need to be covered (Astley and AYB) and then head off for a while. Why not Touhou? Uh, partially theorycruft, partially other than the Demotivate spat I've seen nothing to convince me Touhou might be malign and that argument struck me as TvT, partially just that all the moves thus far strike me as townie - and if they were just claimed out of convenience, I'd expect more fabricated cruft. It's possible they're scum, and in point of fact if they're alive tomorrow I'd definitely consider it a strong possibility - as I would anyone alive at an effective 4-way that isn't effectively clear. But today? Conduct, play, actions - I'm not convinced at all, and the arguments brought to bear have been bad enough as to convince me away from even considering it for now.
EDIT WHILE THINKING: Well, doesn't matter so much, 4 still needed to hammer, but it's still good LYLO policy damnit.
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And that turns today into definate LYLO instead of merely potential LYLO.
Well, damn.
How long do we have left in the day, exactly? It's starting to look like people are just repeating points now, and I don't think we've been given an extension following Bel-Air's exit. So I'm holding my vote on Xbox unless it becomes clear there's still time for discussion, and indeed there's still relevant discussion going around.
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EBWOP: Oh wait, there is no time limit on Lylo. I'm not thinking straight.
Still, is there anyone here other than the man himself who doesn't like the look of an Xbox lynch? I don't see anyone speaking in his defense, to be perfectly honest.
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(http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/661/nitoriuhoh.jpg)
My vote shall remain withheld for obvious reasons.
In regards to the box positing that a scum mason/redirector combination is unlikely, I will point out that both Bel Air and Mr. Astley claim Mr. Astley had to find Bel Air with a night action. If Mr. Astley is scum, only giving him the power of trying to find a mason partner seems unlikely to me, and I think it very possible he would be given something else on top of that, possibly the redirectional role. As Mr. Astley himself also comments, I don't think this is any less unlikely than your theory that a role dedicated to confusion was/is in the hands of town.
I would also like to see you build another case you would feel would properly power a vote, as it felt to me like your vote for me stemmed a lot from the idea of Bel Air being scum.
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@Gatewalker: ugh. Lovely.
Still, is there anyone here other than the man himself who doesn't like the look of an Xbox lynch? I don't see anyone speaking in his defense, to be perfectly honest.
Honestly, if it wasn't for the fact that you're probably the only person here who is somewhat rolecleared I would be highly tempted to vote for you for this comment alone. Seriously. Are you absolutely certain of XBox's scumminess, to the point where you believe the chance of messing up and thus costing town the goddamn game are small enough that you'd comfortably vote him?
Also, what do you think of Touhou, given the recent BelAir flip?
I personally think XBox 360 is scummy and at the moment he's my top pick for person-to-lynch, but I'm going to have to go over everyone again before voting because: A) the stakes are now higher, B) we have additional information, i.e. BelAir's flip. Notably, it's interesting that 2G1C was right in their belief that he was town, and it pretty much confirms Touhou for me, due to the near-complete absence of anything that's all that scummy from Touhou's posts.
I thought demote was vote-switching too easily, and that he was voting to get in on whatever lynch was happening; his move onto C-C-C-C came after everyone else's, and I didn't see much justification, particularly when as you've dug up, "weak vote-switching" is the main part of his case.
So you can't see the case on Breaker, which is principally that Breaker was vote-switching too easily, and you blast Demote for vote-switching too easily? Huh?
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Honestly, if it wasn't for the fact that you're probably the only person here who is somewhat rolecleared I would be highly tempted to vote for you for this comment alone. Seriously. Are you absolutely certain of XBox's scumminess, to the point where you believe the chance of messing up and thus costing town the goddamn game are small enough that you'd comfortably vote him?
This seems very reactionary to me. Asking me 'am I certain I want Xbox lynched?' is a bit of a moot point, because of course we have to lynch someone, and I've seen no reason not to vote for Xbox. Just about everyone's reread and laid out the case against him, no-one's satisfied by his defense - I think the better question is 'why are you so uncertain about Xbox's scumminess, to the point where you attempt to fearmonger on the one case which everyone seems universally decided upon?'
If you want a straight answer to your question, though? Yes. He's been scummy all game, and I let him off for the D2 jump, but he's done nothing of use since then. Honestly, we're more or less down to three suspects now given the role clears - Xbox, AYB, and Rick. And of those three, Xbox is definitely the one I'm the most suspicious of.
Also, what do you think of Touhou, given the recent BelAir flip?
I never really put much against Touhou, to be honest - if Bel-Air was scum I was assuming it was based on him having a role that couldn't be tracked. Regardless, this puts her basically in the 100% clear segment for me.
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More unlikely than a Town Busdriver?
To put it bluntly, yes.
##Unvote because people are paranoid about LYLO. In any case I need a rethink given town Bel-Air. Not sure what happened to the Writer/Paparazzi to give us an Albino Tomato, but whatever.
I initially ignored rick's (or roll's, whatever) outburst - we've had one of those already, after all, and concluded it didn't really mean anything. (Rick, if you want to go on with claiming I was misrepresenting you, then you'd better clear up what that paragraph actually meant.) But thinking about it the hypocrisy of his position is staggering; Astley starts the massive rolespeculation back here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101062.html#msg101062), and has hardly been avoiding it thereafter. That he was posting similarly to myself was part of what convinced me he was town. (and as for not reading my posts, if you're going to do that why are you even playing?)
Will have a reread and try and come up with a proper case on someone.
AyB ninja:
So you can't see the case on Breaker, which is principally that Breaker was vote-switching too easily, and you blast Demote for vote-switching too easily? Huh?
Yes. The Breaker had more justification for the switching (demote sounded like he was explicitly doing it on the numbers), and didn't have the added edge of hypocrisy.
Cakeninja. I don't think Touhou is by any means 100% clear; certainly the rolestuff doesn't make her so.
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I don't think Touhou is by any means 100% clear; certainly the rolestuff doesn't make her so.
I think that as scum she could have found another target to track, because Bel-Air was pretty much set to be lynched D4 if it weren't for her tracker result. She could've, say, tracked Demotivational, but the decision that basically linked her irrevocably to Bel-Air effectively cleared him in the eyes of many, so it seems like a very bad move for scum.
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(http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/8347/nitorimonochrome.jpg)
I have another project deadline coming up, so I don't have a lot of time to talk further, but I wanted to clarify this before getting back to work. I appreciate the sentiments coming my way, but I am not 100% cleared/confirmed, so please don't refer to me as such.
Hopefully the box will have his new case up by the time I return.
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Right, sorry for the delay, several things took longer than expected.
Logic points me at AyB, besides which I still think Rick is more townie with a temper than anything else (though actually logic is pushing me pretty firmly towards their both being scum). While I'd like to push more at 2G1C (whom I've been unhappy with throughout, and defending the utterly horrible Bel-Air, who then flips town, certainly doesn't reflect positively on them), I'm unlikely to get anyone following theories of untrackables at this stage. So with that in mind, a big reread of the Base, from day 1 on.
First post joke. Second post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99758.html#msg99758) reporting, the one piece of content being going after Dawg. Third post commits to nothing, says only the obvious. Fourth/fifth good, correctly going after o9k. Sixth post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99975.html#msg99975) entirely empty, commits nothing. Seventh post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100172.html#msg100172), largely reporting, kind-of-but-not-really pressing cake. Eight post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100328.html#msg100328) long-winded but good, correctly attacking me (because that was a bad start) and picking up on things that hadn't been mentioned. Kind of pushing the soviets a bit, but then withdrawing it all in post nine (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100404.html#msg100404), which is almost all waffle.
Number ten (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100462.html#msg100462). "Augh. Terrible posts all around." pretty much sums it up; jabs at a lot of people, but offers very little in the way of who he thinks is scummier. Does vote for C-C-C-C. Mini-post saying more nothing, then post twelve (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100801.html#msg100801) gives a couple of pretty firm opinions, going for me and air, but again, finishes this time with "Everyone else looks various shades of bad, really."
Post thirteen (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100981.html#msg100981) is an attack on me that's simply wrong. After that, though, he does start playing well; day four is fine on the whole. Messes up the start of today, but we've covered that; then nothing really until here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101658.html#msg101658). Big post, but only actually saying one thing that's new, this "gotcha" business - and even that's all stuff I was called on at the time. Yes, I missed combo, we know. Yes, I post a lot of theory, we know that too. Then defers his actual case to a "next post" that never arrives. Most recent post (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101698.html#msg101698) is true but by no means insightful, and asking Cake to explain his opinions at this stage seems a bit late.
And that's it. No smoking gun, but a whole lot of low content; looking at it day 4's the only time he's really substantially contributing, and that's when the roles make him prime lynch target. Roles point to a scum AyB but that's been done to death at this point. It was time-consuming enough to read back through everything posted by someone I think is very much scum; I haven't the time or the inclination to do it for Touhou or Astley (not to mention that there'd be twice as much to read for either of those), so this is all I've got; I can only hope it's enough. If it isn't, will roleclaim when required, not that there's much point.
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While I'd like to push more at 2G1C (whom I've been unhappy with throughout, and defending the utterly horrible Bel-Air, who then flips town, certainly doesn't reflect positively on them),
And yet you won't say what parts of the defense was horrible (and no, offering a retroactive critique now that I've called you out on this part won't help). Yeah, no. Sorry, just mudslinging really really doesn't help your cause here at all!
Breakdown posts incoming. Been delayed due to my own work, but that's been wrapped up for a while and now I've got time to get things done here.
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AYB breakdown! (If you're too lazy to read through, I'll do a tldr at the bottom, but ctrl+f to **(3)** and read that section, I partial roleclaim to put it out for reference since why the hell not at this point.
D1: Uguu! (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99758.html#msg99758) Mmm. Okay, this post deserves play by play. Using /// breakdown scheme as before.
Jump on train, but points out the time gap. something other two do not. At least shows effort. Meh. /// Hm, also the first person to point out the L-5 O9k crum, though he says it is "too awkward for scum". Okay. Dislike the meta, points for the first to point this out, cancels out again. /// 0 for the next three. Somewhat reportery, can see that claim here but not the rest of the post. /// Calls out CCCCC, and... Hum.
As for the posters which Reduce Intrinsic Motivation, why do you think 9001 Zergs is necessarily Town vs. Town? The argument is irrelevant, yes, but you imply that neither of them has done anything scummy beyond the argument. Is this necessarily true, and if yes, please clarify why you think this.
This kinda reads weird; implication of knowledge that the argument is indeed irrelevant. Checking... mmm, the argument is nearly contentless, I can see saying it. Somewhat odd but will set aside for the moment, will welcome check-backs.
Ay caramba! (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99774.html#msg99774) Comment to Shiki about confusion on O9k on his end/suspicion, calls out Soviet on the idiocy/problems with the no lynch idea (first person to go into that much detail on the flips end). Kay.
Blood For The Blood God! Skulls For The Skull Throne! (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99785.html#msg99785) Breaks down O9k's latest post, switches vote there with that justification. Commentary previous in the post is mainly scumlogicing; scum do x because they have y. It's not terrible but somewhat fallacious, presumption of what's best scum behavior when best scum behavior is "don't act as town expects you to". Also makes a decent point on Yo Dawg at the least.
"Don't drive like my brother!" "Don't drive like MY brother!" (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99975.html#msg99975) Maintains vote, calls out the Astley vote, claims the Dawg/Breaker jester commentrush is overinflation, restates (as in others have said before) that jestertheory can diaf. Mmmm. Decent enough but feels like restatement outside of Astley vote callout.
D2: USO DA! (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.175.html) That red is a link, fyi. And... using ///.
lolcat review, turns up nothing of note. /// Waffly on Soviets, relies on metaplay some to steer away from clearing them in these two paragraphs, which makes me shaky (lolcat vote on Soviets), also uses the nonsensicality of play card they used with O9k. Mrrr. /// Accuses !cake of active lurking, pretty much. /// Lurker/activity prod.... wait, no vote? Gweh? Uncomfortable with that, seeing as how not having a vote down was part of why O9k was called out (though. Note that was -not- why AYB voted for him). Hm.
Next post of substance was Heaven or Hell? LET'S ROCK! (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100328.html#msg100328), another /// one.
0 /// **(3)**Requesting ADoggie's logic on the roleblock clearing me for the time being. Still don't get why people didn't accept it but hey whatevs beyond that for now and running with what I've got for now (though confessionally there was no way a lynch would have gone through on me unless I had no time to stop it, on any day other than day 2 where the roleblock N1 prevented my ability from working. And yes, that's effectively me finally saying what my role does, that's about all I can say about my role without triggering it. So), anyway the request is fair enough as a lot of people weren't seeming to see it including a few people I see as clearish right now (!cake). /// Iterates the "too townie wait what?!" comments I've had about XBox's play, and the Soviet comment. /// Actually assembles a case on XBox himself, I totally missed this day 2. Wups. Sorry, AYB! And... yeah, wow, pretty much everything I called him out on, isn't it?... Now I feel silly. Mass props to AYB on this here, I feel like a reporter who's won an award for a report cribbed in part from someone else. Wish you had pressed it more, but. /// Follows up on CCCCC, this is mostly reiteration on ADoggie with some slight added push questioning-wise. /// Admits his own defense of Soviets is questionable, admits he's having problems with them, and I return to being queasy here, as you're defending your defense of Soviet here with "...yeah, it is." Granted, it's better than trying to be vehement about it... meh. Iunno. Kinda feels like me and Milhouse, I just flat-out refused to comment on him due to getting gut town because of pure meta. Blah. Iunno, don't feel good on it. Thinking. /// Does however justify why CCCCC/XBox over Soviets, votes XBox. Okay.
There's no justice. There's just me. (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100404.html#msg100404) This... this defends the Soviet feelings. And it does so actually somewhat adequately, I feel (it acknowledges the issues, which is important; he isn't letting Soviet slide so much, he sees the issues, but he's not seeing them as scummy so much. An interesting post, I'm choosing not to break it down in part because I'm not sure how to approach it. It merits actual reading and digesting; if you end up disagreeing that he's defending his own opinion here well, your call. But I think this is enough to justify it for now.
Blood and bloody ashes! (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100462.html#msg100462) More ///.
Reply to Shiki. Eh, kinda did read like you were trying to say Soviet was townie without saying as such, I kinda see Shiki's point here. But you don't actually do that, it's a reading issue here, so moving on. /// And lo, did AYB descend from the heavens and give CCCCC yet another combo-breaking slap. Yeah. This is a pretty good point, not sure it was mentioned by anyone else (check: don't think so, no). This I find interesting. /// Another XBox callout. /// Demotivator callout, which was kinda justified, honestly. /// Pressure on Russia to answer questions. Can't say I disapprove there, either. /// Comment on Touhou Hijack! Eh. /// Slapping Bel-Air for the D2 CCCCC vote, which on the one hand yes it was "I agree!" but as I said he had mentioned suspicions for CCCCC earlier, in D1. But no one seems to have remembered that. /// Mmm, comments on the NK, then says "NK can't really be relied on, 2g1c noted roleblocker" and votes for his suspicions/who's likely to go that day; CCCCC. Kay. Yes, there's a lot of pressure on a lot of people here; can't really say most of it wasn't merited, though!
Onto day 3 next post, thus far though tl;dr: AYB doesn't look that bad either really to me, you guys. Would obviously encourage you all to actually read the posts for yourselves since I'm no perfect beacon of shininess, if it isn't obvious I strongly disagree at least thus far with XBox analysis (note I did not read XBox analysis before doing this part, at least). The day 1 is scratchy. I think only ADoggie/Touhou/maaaaybe Zerg Rush/maaaaaybe Shiki have any argument at all for a good D1 this game, so whatever there. D2 at least seems solid enough for presenting arguments and being contentful/useful. His Russia semi-blindness seems to be the main issue there.
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D3:
un pour tous, tous pour un (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100801.html#msg100801) ///s again.
Notes that Astley doesn't really clarify how he found Air, finds Air more suspicious for following Astley, handwaves the end of D2 Astley activity as not making sense for scum which makes me shaky, dislike guesstimation for "scum wouldn't act like this" personally as reasoning but I've been over this. Uncomfortable, moving on. /// Comment on the Touhou rush, which AYB is more reserved on at this point (I omit an earlier post with minimal content; link here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100756.html#msg100756)). /// Breaks down the three cases, uses the reasoning I found myself using at the end, decides none of the three are worth pushing. /// Goes back to XBox! Reiterates points, states his suspicions. /// Comments on people he sees as okay. As a note, I disagree with the logic he uses to say Russia is cleared, and think he contradicts himself here! Yes, to me Russia was cleared as well then, but he was cleared due to being the CCCCC roleblock + the scumtrain. I can't really see what AYB was arguing D2 as clearing him, as he himself was saying that he wasn't seeing Russia as cleared yet D2 (response to Shikishana being the primary, first part of the post... here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100462.html#msg100462). This is an aberration, worth noting against AYB. Neutral with the rest of the post.
D4:
Ilka tulk tak! (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100981.html#msg100981) Eh. Another callout on XBox, but this is admittedly one of the ones that I'm shaky on - I disagree as well on the nightspec, but not sure where the nonsequitur comment came in on. Think AYB commented on this D4, will get to that latter perhaps?
THIS HAND OF MINE IS BURNING RED! (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101067.html#msg101067) Red is link again. /// used.
0. /// Telling XBox that rolemadness means rolespeculation is bad. ... AYB, have I really cribbed from you this fucking bad? Wow. Ouch. Regardless, moving on. /// Comments with approval on Demote case, but claims desire to want to reread day 4. Eh. Okay. In general I really prefer votes down unless it's LYLO but. /// Comments on the WIFOMness of what's going on with the scumminess of the pairings. /// Notes confusion on Bel-Air, considers him generally cleared by Touhou for now and thus goes back to "Astley's actions make no sense for scum" which is again arglhedebarglede for me as it's WIFOM kinda in and of itself (predicting what scum would do kinda). /// Comments as to a lack of a Astley case on him yet, does a general glossover of people, ends up back on XBox. /// Final part... while I go argh on clearing based on roles in role madness (which AYB maddeningly goes along with here) he at least presses for cases here.
You have been promoted to catchphrased at by a giant frog. (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101068.html#msg101068) further breaks down the XBox case, specifically the move to Demotive and possible justification for it. Mmmehm okay. Onward, there's... defense of self from the Astley case, linked here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101090.html#msg101090) and here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101095.html#msg101095). I'll cover the attack when I get to Astley, seems more relevant there, but these are his posts so they're being linked here for reference.
I prepared Explosive Runes this morning. (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101157.html#msg101157) O-kay. ///s.
Breakdown of Astley! First paragraph, major relevant part is the latter, where AYB retracts his standing on Astley's end day 2 play some. /// Continuing with the next three snippets, he questions the Bel-Air trust (eh, this doesn't bother me as much; a decent point but Astley did have mason talk privilege over us, remember) and... claims that Astley is writing the case against him as if he's presuming guilt first and writing second. Interesting theory, will see if it holds up when I get to Astley, this could go either way. /// Reiterates XBox case. Hammer hammer hammer. Confessionally I don't blame him, while this is repeating what he'd been saying before no one had been paying attention. So. /// Comments with confusion on Shiki's post. Kay.
"... and that's when I tried to buy the horse a prostitute." (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101159.html#msg101159) Slams Shiki for the role madness being their pretty much entire justification for Shiki vote. Yeah, sounds like what I did, find no fault there - that was honestly really scummy.
FAWFUL HAS FURY! (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101169.html#msg101169) Nnnngh. Addresses Shiki's case fine, but engages in the theorycruft. Eh, it's not something I can seriously hold against him, I did the same for too long, but since he had been kinda adamant on mainly scumhunting this is kinda dis-spiriting.
"That's the way to do it!" (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101177.html#msg101177) Elaborates on what I see as the crummy end D2 Astley as confused town logic. Blah.
Autobots, transform and roll out! (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101182.html#msg101182) Continues to pound away on the bad logic for the Shana thing. Of note, however, is that he presses for an -actual case-. This pleases some, as that was the primary issue presented with Shana.
Bite my shiny metal ass! (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101291.html#msg101291) Righty-o. More ///.
The summarization of the XBox posts does indeed sum up an issue on XBox (wet is wet). /// The first paragraph... eh, the D3 post didn't impress much either on my end, but you know, whatever. The second paragraph pretty much hits the hypocrisy on the head, however, which is nice. /// Yeah, Shiki issues and AYB rebuffal. This makes him look a lot better to me, honestly; there's a lot of things to say but this is the sort of thing scum really don't need to say. But town do want to say it, because town talking people out of stupid decisions to try and reverse results is a good idea (c.f. Hiro/Middleman D1 Hero Mafia). /// Comments on the inanity of the Shikiplay, states comfort with Shiki lynch, notes preference for XBox lynch (note he has been pushing for this since D2. Remarkably consistent, something I'm not sure scum would need to be...), keeps vote on XBox, comments to BelAir. Eh. Frankly this all looks good and reasonable.
And that's it for relevant content. Definite disagreement and belief that XBox attack is, while not totally contentless, on the average groundless (same may not apply for Astley's, will cover that when I get there), thus very content with XBox lynch. Would like to try and figure out partner, believe it at this point to be one of Astley or Touhou. If it's Touhou, I'll be honestly quite shocked, but she's not eliminated yet. That case... it's not coming tonight, this took too long. Fortunately, tomorrow's free, mostly. It'll be up early. I'll get the response to Astley's bolded stuff up right now, though, that's been backburnered for too long. Apologies.
...nnnnngggggghhhh, and there's a lot I'd like to say right now, but I've got one other thing to front: if I die during the night when it comes, highly examine Touhou and Astley. !cake, I leave this to you; whether you be town or third party, I don't care at this point, you go earn your victory whichever you are. At this point, this is a "do not go gently into that good night" moment for me. While I've considered the possibility of !cake being scum and killing a fellow scum for credit, I consider this highly unlikely, again, for completely meta reasons (I believe I know who lolcats was, and they would not have stood for falling night 1 by any means). So, yeah. My trust now lies with !cake, mostly.
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Link to Astley post of which I respond
(http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101575.html#msg101575)But not even mentioning me as a possibility, or Bel-Air, smells far too [url=http://tracyjb.deviantart.com/art/Sheep-28677218]off[/url] to just be a verbal gaff.
He's been using his theorycruft to reduce it to those two, primarily, as I believe he replied. Not sure it can be classified under verbal gaff so much as "uh... huh" level attempts at theorycrufting/confidence, therein. (Oh, and apologies for the partial quote. I do believe this adequately represents what you wanted to say, however?)
Skipping the Touhou dialogue. There's something at the back of my mind that's niggling me there on both ends. I'll get to it in a bit, though, as it'll come up later when I'm building the final two cases and constructing one final thing I'd like to present for consideration.
As for my thing on AYB, well, I've kinda been looking at him funky for a while now, and his first post of the day is actually quite the contradiction, if you'd be so pleased as to note it. (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101439.html#msg101439) First thing he says is that you need to claim your night results immediately. This shows he's been paying attention to how we're keeping tabs on you. Then, he goes on to make a night action claim of his own, and berate !cake for using his, despite him knowing it wouldn't work. This shows that he has not been paying attention to how we're keeping tabs on you. (And as for people wondering why I'm "convinced that was what was going to happen" I wasn't. I just wanted to make sure you didn't have any sort of avenue for escape, because scumTouhou could have then easily claimed following !cake to AYB, and nobody but scum would've known it was a lie)
A decent catch on the contradiction.
Also want to point out that he mentioned having a case on XBox, which has now been lost over 24 hours past when he mentioned it would "be done very soon." And that he has posted twice since then.
And in his fairness he's had about ten cases on XBOX, none of which people actually seem to have paid any attention to but which are actually a lot like mine! Huh, funny that. (Not chiding you for this, except in that for someone who's been kinda going against/over AYB for a while longer than I have (owing to epic laziness on my part up to today), missing the fact that he's been against XBOX for, uh, most the damn gam, is kinda odd. But handwaving this for now, as I'm mainly just deconstructing these arguments.)
I'm going to say that the only suspects, really, are me, Bel-Air, Touhou, XBox, and AYB. I know I'm Town (which isn't helpful to anyone else, blah) so I'm looking at Bel-Air, Touhou, XBox, and AYB. Scum Bel-Air means scum Touhou. Town Touhou means Town Bel-Air. Nothing else confirms or denies anything else about them. I am... more lenient to believe TownTouhou after Demo flipped his role name, but role madness has me staying my hand from making it absolute. However, this does lead me to believe that we almost definitely have scumpairings of Bel-Air/Touhou or Box/AYB.
Mostly correct, though I disagree with the pairings section, if it weren't obvious from my latest post (I'm not convinced on AYB scum at all, while definitely convinced on Box scum)
Will get to cases when I wake up and either get here or get back, so 8-1...4? hours from now, max. Should be within the early part of that.
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Link fouled up, but whatever, Astley's the first post of page 25, you all can click on that from here can't you? Okay, cool. Sorry 'bout that. Nighty-o.
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(http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/4316/nitorimildsurprise.jpg)
So the box's cries of "one of Touhou or AyB is definitely scum" - using his words and conclusion (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101583.html#msg101583), not trying to partialquote anyone - are founded on his belief that Astley is likely nothing more than a mason, regardless of alignment. This is not proper scientific method. "This scenario seems unlikely to me" does not imply "this other scenario is definitely the case", and that justification makes the conclusion regarding CATS and myself feel even more like "don't look at me, look elsewhere at this!" than it did before.
The box confuses me further with his latest post, which contains continued suspicion of the girls of all people (I really cannot wrap my head around trying to paint them in a bad light after their assessment of Bel Air and his subsequent flip and it ends up just coming across as pointing fingers anywhere he can). His CATS case is amusingly reportery considering he cites CATS as doing the same a couple of times. The defeatist attitude at the end does nothing positive for him at all.
If this is all the box is going to offer, then I am set to vote for him. I will hold off in the interest of letting the girls present their remaining cases, but that's pretty much it.
I read the girls' assessment of CATS and find it somewhat similar to my own assessment of him (which can be found spread across a couple of my Day (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101114.html#msg101114) 4 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101156.html#msg101156) posts), albeit much lengthier and much more detailed. I can't see anything in it that needs pressing commentary.
Ilka tulk tak!
Watch your language, missy. I know what that means.
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Any role-based statements are based on making reasonable assumptions; everything everyone's said is assuming that there are only two remaining scum, there are no untrackables, etc. I said right back here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101184.html#msg101184) that the whole thing would break down if one assumed a combination scum mason/busdriver; I didn't and don't think that's a plausible possibility.
I do apologise for being so defeatist; there were external factors.
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Timing is ridiculous. You probably shouldn't believe me and certainly shouldn't cut me any slack, but I write on my way to hospital. Probably nothing serious.
On phone, haven't read anything, but just in case it's delaying the game I'll make my roleclaim: town power charger. Which is a doublevoter.
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XBOX power claim. I'll deal with this when I hammer, as I'd actually like to be the hammer on XBOX if that's permissible as I have a few things to say in brief before the flip that I want uninterrupted by any other real commentary. A last will and testament, if you will.
Before this, and before my analysis (I have decided not to post one analysis I was doing on the side; a snapshot of the Excal picture of said aborted analysis is attached to this post) of Astley, I've a request to make of Astley and AYB: please roleclaim, at a minimum, your role names. Given as how Touhou has the jackets, my reason for this should be somewhat obvious (we know who she targeted if she ends up getting NK'd). If you can't roleclaim your role names, allude to them if you can or flat out say you can't if you can't. I realize this is pushing into "please draw a roleclaim" territory, but guess what, it's LYLO, this is effectively full roleclaim time. I can't full roleclaim myself, I've done as much as I can.
Apologies, this'll take a bit more as doing this also required an ADoggie reread, and I ended up doing something else for a while as well.
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Correction I'm an idiot that claim cannot actually wait. XBOX, I take it this just means you can apply two votes on one person? Will your name show up twice on the list of the person voting for them?
This actually needs to be addressed, as if this claim can be safely proven I want proof of it.
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Astley writeup! Gonna skip D1/2 up until the end, as I mostly agree (for the moment; this will get broken down when I take on his own defense) with Touhou's case on Astley, which oddly mainly only covers D1/2 matters unless I miss something. However, I feel the end D2 rant deserves mentioning due to "but it makes no sense for scum to do!"
Link is --> red[/url]. Confirmed posted by Roll (yes, I can check this sort of thing, and unless my determinant is rickroll'd it's accurate enough).
The issue is that, on the contrary, there are logical reasons for both scum and town to do it. Scum? If you want to press a Soviet lynch (hi, who has the jackets? Granted this falls flat if XBOX isn't scum but it's something to bear in mind if we live to see tomorrow), ADoggie is effective the man to either convince or discredit, and this could easily just be a push to discredit enough that Soviet goes through over Combo. Also note fatalistic resignation (this usually never ever sits well with me, but stepping back from that from a moment), also note no mention of masonpair.
This being said, it also makes sense for town to do it -if- they're frustrated/honestly suspicious. I may have to actually relook day 2 over but I'm not sure which way I swing on it, it depends on how much of the case presented against ADoggie I can honestly buy being made at the time. Actually, should just do that now. Quoting the bulletpoints myself.
1. Dog has been giving Russia a chainsaw defense the entire damn game. Even D1, though it was less of a chainsaw defense then.
2. Dog's posts have a lot of words, but not much actual content. (Gonna point you here where it's really bad. Sure, he has that whole case on Breaker, but check out everything above that. Tell me you can't summarize that in one sentence or less)
3. Dog himself has mentioned the possibility of a town roleblocker. (And I'm gonna emphasize that with a BASTARD MODDING warning)
4. I... really don't see Russia defending itself much. Dog has been doing it instead.
5. Don't give me a damn cry of "but he's so helpful! and Townie!" We all know damn well that a good scum plays like a good town, and we ALL know it's entirely possible for someone that's 100% townie-seeming to be scum. (Hi Samurai Jack)
6. Russia has been terrible this game. Inexcusably so.
7. Dog did set himself up to lynch !cake later with subtle wording. Although now he's gone back on it and set his stance in stone by trying to condemn me.
8. Seriously, look over Dog and his interactions with Russia. Now look at his interactions with the other people who've been trains with Russia at the time, and the people who've been accusing Russia. Look it over.
1. Chainsaw defense, chainsaw defense... this is gonna take a while and I'm doing a bunch of stream of consciousness on this since I'm reading this while doing a few other analysis projects as well. First post commenting on anything in their defense is here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg99767.html#msg99767) where he says he views it as a joke vote. In Soviet Russia makes it serious. Advice Doggie yells at him. Chainsaw that's not, and he's continued to be worried by him down the page...day 1 in fact, his main issue seems to be just that Soviet Russia's tried to play up his joke vote and kinda crashed on it while O9k's looked actively scummy, so he stayed there. He doesn't defend Soviet Russia at all, his main concern is over jester than anything else but the play is hardly being defended D1. He shows a transition on Soviet during the night, then becomes wondering what the hell he'd be doing as scum doing that. Does catch one of two scummy moves (swap to Milhouse) that he does, at least. So yeah, no D1 defense at all so much as "I'd rather see O9K go".
D2... pursues !cake, whom his suspicions have switched to (outlined N1), then steps away after the claim (which leads to (7.)) and moves to CCCCC, sticking on his case from there and staying off Soviet. How's that scummy? He pushes the case he finds suspicious, and... keeps on it the rest of the day, convincing others on and off until the climactic post by you and the response by Milhouse.
2. Other than "Having to explain theorycruft sucks"? Uh, no, that's rather blatant flailing on your end - that's a good post AFAICT. I, due to being the indirect -topic-, might be colored, but the logic was and is reasonable and I'm still not sure what the issue is and where the problem with it is.
3. That's a point against Dog for mentioning it? But regardless, even if had been a town roleblocker on me it would have been irrelevant for the time- no, not because no one came out to say anything about it but because it would become more obvious as time went on what was going on/what side the blocker was on, which was his point for leaving my case alone in the first place. The people getting pissed because him treating my roleblock claim as a temp clear are the ones that honestly confused me then.
4. Nope, Russia hasn't been defending himself, you're right there. Didn't ever, really, except via cheesy anecdotes. As for Dog, see point 1.
5. Sure. Good town also plays like good town, and we ALL know that's possible, and this badly reads like what the scum version of Astley would want to do here. So, uh. Yes, we know you claim you thought he was scum. Kay. We move on, since this point really doesn't back it up at all and is honestly just fearmongering, it feels like.
6. Mmm. Yeah, can't really deny a lot of the D1-2 play for Soviet was bad, I had my issues there too! My vote didn't end up there, not sure where it would have ended up, Milhouseclaim trainwrecked stuff. Hardly arguing.
7. Uh...? Yes, he did set himself up to lynch !cake later, if we get down to endgame and we think we have all scum down and game's not over. He'd be a SK. We could kill him then. Woo. Logic! This is what he was talking about. Not seeing the going back on it.
8. Okay, done. He's been reasonable, mostly; his main issue has been that he's stayed away from the train because people he doesn't trust (you amongst them) swapped to it. Uh. Huh, okay? Soviet wasn't acting good but others were acting worse to him; that's good play, he explained this. I'm really not sure what you want, ad I don't know why you weren't believing him other than something akin to 'too townie, leading us around by the nose'. Which makes me choke a little on my vodka.
What I notice here, however! Really, definitely, notice! You never mentioned CCCCC. Like, ever. The entirety of the comment? "that whole case on Breaker". Only on day 3 does it ever come up, and I think you got called on it there, with which you say that you didn't think he was suspicious (I think. This is out of context, I'll get you in context when I get there as I am pretty sure you were talking about this).
The reason -why- this strikes me so baldly isn't that you attacked ADoggie - okay, sure. Seeable. Nor is it your case on Soviet - he had issues! Big ones! Nor even the lack of mention on Breaker - while odd, especially while making a case on ADoggie, it's not unpardonable.
It's all three at once. You avoided bringing up CCCCC at all while -attempting to convince town that ADoggie was scum, when ADoggie's main case was a huge press on CCCCC, one of the main lynch targets of the day-. In other words, to attack ADoggie, you would have wanted to prove that his case on CCCCC was faulty - but you avoided that. Instead, you accused him of -defending- Soviet instead of -attacking- Breaker, and by doing so leading town by the nose. In doing so, I have to believe you sought to keep yourself deliberately disconnected from the case on CCCCC - why else no mention of CCCCC anywhere else in day 2 other than "that whole case on Breaker"? When -that was the other lynch train-, you have no mention of it at all in any of your day 11 posts day 11 here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.250.html)?
...this turned massive fast because it ended up being such a big point to reiterate. To me, this was a majorly scummy move. Final part of analysis up soon. Want the question in the post before this to be replied to by Astley and AYB both, please.
-
I am a Town Aligned Mad Journalist (you guys already know everything about my role, so meh) and... I can't even defend (believably) against the whole 'not mentioning Breaker' thing, because my only witness is now dead and gone. Though I did cover it in one of my points here at the top of page 25 (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101575.html#msg101575). If you look at the second last point, I cover everything you just held up against me.
Not even gonna really bother tackling anything else. I'll see if I can get Rick to come back in, since apparently I can't play worth shit.
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One of my main things - and perhaps it's a bad habit, but it's what it is - is I very much tend to factor in retro-answers like that in far less, Roll. Not that I haven't read or considered them, but that it's a lot easier to cover ass in retrospect than it is in the heat of the moment, you know? So to weight them equally with what happened back then doesn't seem accurate to me.
Thanks for the post, waiting on AYB and XBOX. Currently hashing things through mentally, I may have to revise my analysis of AYB with one significant charge in a bit once I finish posting yours and reread through his.
...god, and we would have had a lynch to spare if Bel Air hadn't dropped. That, more than anything else, is really making me somewhat sour at this point, since that flip was not worth the lost lynch/nightphase/final day - not worth it at all. (No blame to Gate at all for this - the situation is an absolutely miserable one as a moderator to be put in, and he handled it as best he could). Still, to be in LYLO... augh. We need must make the right choice, and while... and while I am convinced that XBOX's play has been the absolute scummiest and at this point will vote him (there is -no- relevation, no determinant on any end that could change this outside of AYB suddenly spazzing out and admitting he's scum or something bizarre as hell), I really wish we had the buffer, really. To not have it, well, it makes me uncomfortable, especially since I sorta adopted the role of town...
*sigh*
I can't avoid the pun. I became town's lynchpin, didn't I.
Analysis wrapping up in a moment, I'm on Rick's AYB case.
-
Mm. Rick's out 'till about Monday, at the earliest.
2g1c: What can I say? I didn't feel like it was important to say "I'm not sure what I think of Breaker or Xbox." How was I to know he was scum? I mean, think about it from this angle: If Breaker had been town, then you wouldn't be holding this against me. I honestly didn't have anything new to add, and didn't feel it important to say "I have nothing to say." It would've just been noise, far as I'm concerned. You'll note I don't talk about XBox, either. I'm not gonna say it was the right thing to do (because clearly it wasn't), but it's what happened.
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Just to get it back on a current page, here's another
Votecount
Touhou Hijack:(0) - XBOX
XBOX:(1) - 2girls1cup, Cake
RIck & Roll: (1) - O R'LYEH!?
With 7 memes still commenting, it takes 4 votes to ban them from the internet.
And now for a word from our sponsors:
(http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/7356/yodawg.png)
This post-mortem trolling brought to you by C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER! (Yeah, he wanted to post this himself but I told him I'd throw it in the votecount so as to avoid any confusion about whether or not it was a real votecount).
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Honestly I've seen no sign of Xbox having a double vote all game, so I'm inclined to think this claim is bull.
Will wait and see how he responds to this challenge, though.
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Actually, you not commenting on XBox until rather recently was the final part I was going to note on that front - and how XBox kept commenting about you offhandedly.
And... *shrugs* We'll see where things go. I won't lie; the way things are shaping up, you're probably near the top of my suspicions for the remaining of the three scum, then AYB, then Touhou. I've had to reread Touhou about six times on my way through this thread and they haven't changed at any point through it, which kinda cements me there, though... eh. Bah. Blaaaah. BLAAAAUGH. whatever. I'm talking myself in circles due to nervous.
!cake is a ninja: Nor did Soviet, though in fairness he only had it day 1. Hm. Did he show any signs of having it day 1?
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(http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/4734/nitorifalling.jpg)
I am overall neutral on the box's claim, especially since the role wasn't his to begin with, though I don't particularly think it's a lie since it's so easily provable. It seems pointless to me to lie about such a thing when he's under so much fire in LYLO, as there are a good number of better time-buying roleclaims than a publicly demonstratable power you don't have. The fact that we have yet to see an extra vote at any point this game could go either way, as I can see scum and town both wanting to hide it (maybe scum a little more but not a lot).
Box, you must understand that "I don't think a combination scum mason/busdriver is plausible" is not a good enough reason for the rest of us to believe your claim that one of myself and CATS is definitely scum. We ruled out you because of concrete testimony from the Russian, since he actually knew your role. This was grounded in facts - someone that knew the entirety of your role and has flipped town said you were not the redirector. Unless there are factual statements supported by night actions that prove Mr. Astley cannot have a redirectional role, then you cannot say that he definitely does not, which is why your pressing that point feels so much like you're trying to deflect attention away from yourself.
For the girls, the summation of my Mr. Astley case covers Days 1 and 2 because that was where the majority of my researched findings came from; I consider Day 3 to be largely irrelevant for research purposes for a bunch of people (such as Mr. Astley), and the last two days have had some lesser theories I didn't like, such as his assessment in his CATS case that the odds of a Day 2 Russia lynch were "good" (this was not corrected when I first talked about it yesterday so I am assuming it is not a misquote), but nothing as major as the shenanigans surrounding the Breaker.
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Touhou, may I please ask you one quick question? Do you, or do you not believe that there are two of us behind this meme?
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(http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/9973/nitoriheadscratch.jpg)
We have mod confirmation that there are two of you (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100787.html#msg100787), so yes, I believe it (Bastard Moddery seems silly to cite as a variable for a theory like this). If you're asking because I consistently refer to you as one entity, that is because I find it easier on myself to do so (and because "Mr. Astley" seems more Nitori-ish than the less formal "Rick" and "Roll"). I do not make much of an attempt to differentiate between which of you posted what because you have both demonstrated that you will address things relevant to what you said and defer questions about what the other said to the other.
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Oh shut up Combo Breaker, firstly I know who you are and I will be yelling at you after the game (P4 poster? Really? That made it obvious as hell. Sorry.) and secondly wah wah wah I've been doing a shit ton of typing. One fucking mistake. Get over it and go cry into your anime collection you poser~
(oh, who am I kidding. Yeah, I'll yell at you after game, but I love ya anyway. ... Still gonna punch you.)
Final Rickroll analysis. Now that this is done, once AYB does as much of the roleclaim as he can, as I have requested (of import is the rolename) and we've got as much info from XBOX as we think we can, I'm willing to end the day.
Touhou and Astley ninja. Touhou, I have a very very very good reason why I ask XBOX about the doublevote. Please trust me on this.
D3:
Rick post: Green (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100722.html#msg100722) Confirms masonness, states two-in-one-ness, brings up Touhou as a hijacker (indulging in rolecruft. Bah) and prods Demotive for details (which is fair, considering the mess that occured here). Okay enough post, no issues here.
Rick post: Purple (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100728.html#msg100728) Main thing of interest is the third line, where Rick claims some vague info that he doesn't extrapolate on. Seems off, but okay. Unsure what info a mason pair would have that would elaborate on this, unless... well, whatevs.
Rick post: Red (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100732.html#msg100732) Asks why Touhou would track the vig/SK potentor. Reasonable question. Again, no issues aside from mainly rolecruft, but in reflection that's what D3 was, wasn't it.
Rick post: Blue (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100774.html#msg100774) Mentions he's leaning against the Hijackers and that Air seems townie due to masonchat or masonPM or whatevs. Kay.
Roll post: Yellow (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100775.html#msg100775) Clarifies the rolemess, states the D2 end explosion was due to being unentertained by the game (in part, not trying to attribute the entirety to that, but). Okay, eh. It's role clarification.
Rick post: White (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100831.html#msg100831) Calls out Touhou (semi-after the fact, but not entirely) for the rolespeculation issues.
Rick post: Neon (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100859.html#msg100859) Reiterates Bel-Air gut towniness, says no one else should probably believe him; also says Bel-Air wants to post something.
IT's day 3. Not much content. Can't blame Astley, didn't have much myself, but there's just... really not much to ride on here. Rick was the majority poster here.
D4:
Roll post: France (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100966.html#msg100966) Comments on Box avoidance of trains (good point), asks question of Demote. Decent enough post, kay kay.
Rick post: Malaysia (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101050.html#msg101050) Commentary on the leather jacket role, says he has a case on AYB in works.
Rick post: Swaziland (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101062.html#msg101062) Mostly theorycruft, rest of you've heard my belabored whining on this by now, moving on... well, the logic itself. Mmm. Feels alright, relies on simple role constructs (i.e. clearing Touhou without just cause) but otherwise whatever there it's not bad. Actually of note, neither Rick nor Roll lays vote here or by now, nor is the case presented here. This is called out. Somewhat offputting but not terribly so, if the logic jumped out first then posting that and working the case that might make sense.
Roll/Roll/Rick post set starting here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101078.html#msg101078), telling people to hold their horses until Rick can assemble the case... which comes in CanRICKROLLada (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101083.html#msg101083). Okay. His breakdown, I'm gonna compare to my own: mine starts here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101715.html#msg101715) - note that I am not comparing to how similar his is to mine, that'd be fucking stupid of me. Similar to me wouldn't be townie, surely, lord knows I've had stupid opinions in the past this game. I'm using the comparison mainly since I know I caught all the posts so it helps me make sure we're on the same page on which post is being talked about. I- oh, right, broken link. I'll presume you just took the posts in order, then...
Agreed in general on first D2 post, think you understate the good in the second one but that's no big, the third.... mmmmmm. Yeah, I can see where you come from, but as I said in my own post I personally think he did an adequate job articulating that the entire thing's just a mess he doesn't know where to go on. To be honest, trying to force someone to go somewhere with that would feel more scummy than having those feelings. Sure, he could be scummy and attempting to avoid having opinions but then there's the XBox dogged hunt.
D3... You say D3's more interesting, then give it a sentence. I am sad. And I'm looking it over and I'm not quite sure I buy it entirely being regurgitated. You're not impressive on that front either, D3: most of your new stuff is your roleclaim. The case seems kinda empty in the end; D1/first D2 sure kinda, but from there... yeah, kinda agree with AYB, this feels somewhat forced. Not sure I'd go so far as to say that you were determined to make a case on him no matter what, but... eh. Yeah, doesn't read too well, but it's not totally bad either.
Rick post: Brazil (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101085.html#msg101085) Undoes more rolecruft on Touhou/Demotive. kay
Rick post: Japan (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101091.html#msg101091) Using my trusty ///.
Commentary on Bel-Air and his absence. Again. Mmm. /// Breakdown of where they see people, yamma yamma okay cool sorry I wanna skip to the AYB ninja commentary. /// Nope, the links don't lead to the right posts. Only the pages. Also... hold on a sec, confused, want to check something in my own notes...
As for your day 3 stuff, a decent amount of it was cribbed from Shiki. Which is my main concern. Another telling part was where you asked for info that had already been given.
Former I can see, kinda. Latter, please source? Here's his D3 post link: here (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100801.html#msg100801). I... uh, don't see any questions marks there except for one, which... if that sentence reads as a question to you, I raise an eyebrow; that's clearly a -rhetorical- question. Where's the question? Elaborate, please. This can wait for Rick, I guess, which means it can wait for tomorrow if we live for it, but this does not raise my confidence for the Astleys at all.
/// Finally, an attack on the O9K... no, the O9K vote made sense, I thought. At least, I followed the logic when I read AYB's post on it, both then and now. Don't quite know where you're going at, there, but accusing him of making sense only on the surface... noooo. That's not quite the case there. Wish you would back this up, as it stands there's not much here to push against and as such I'm left shaking my head at you rather vaguely. Note that he defends this in his own post pretty well, I think, looking it over, although he seems to kinda get flustered about your terminology.
Roll post: Texas (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101214.html#msg101214) /// are your friend!
0 /// Mmmhmm. /// More rolecruft. /// Yeah, that's about the one thing to say against AYB in the exchange, but it reads a lot like ADoggie, honestly - focused on the target (CCCCC/XBox) and not voting therefore on the secondary (Russia/Astley). /// Three more paragraphs of (seminecessary) rolecrufting. Blah. /// Prodding at Shiki who was flailing badly at Touhou. Yeah, really, had Shiki kept playing normally it'd have been nice, but the sudden swap to "o hi metalogic" twigged everyone off. Wowzers.
Roll post: Mongolia (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg101340.html#msg101340) Series of posts testing Shiki's role. 'kay. Nothing really to say here, she wasn't lying, lynched anyway because she was acting scummy, no fault there. Kay.
Overall? Kinda feels... vacuous. The cases are a lot of warmer air outside of the one on ADoggie which I don't feel was a good case. Yeah, this feels like the final scum, honestly; thinking it's XBOX/Astley, far far far far faaaaaaaaaaaaaar more confident on XBOX however, Astley not so much. My analysis are done, I think I'm not going to do one on Touhou out of sheer exhaustion, honestly; that and after reading her posts over and over it'd be a lot of "Okay!" stuff. Sorry, but I'm not the one that would need to analyze them, I think like them too much possibly based on that. !cake might be a better person to do it but eh.
Once AYB does as much of the roleclaim as he can, as I have requested (of import is the rolename) and we've got as much info from XBOX as we think we can, I'm willing to end the day.
Touhou and Astley ninja. Touhou, I have a very very very good reason why I ask XBOX about the doublevote. Please trust me on this. This is on top and bottom so I can be sure people read it.
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(http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/8185/nitorismile3.jpg)
Aha, I believe I see why you want this. Yeah, okay, I'd like to hear from the box again too.
I'll admit I'm not entirely sure you're going to hear what you want to hear due to various environmental circumstances, but I could be wrong.
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I think I can say this: Despite my own adherence to the contrary, if XBox can prove his role, I think he might be clear.
This... isn't something I ever thought I'd say, to be honest! But there you go. Which would make things a decent bit simpler on my end... but I'll wait for XBOX's willingness to offer this before going any further.
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Check that, reran my logic, can't clear him with it. Would still like it to be demonstrated if at all possible, as it's important for a different reason anyway.
(Sometimes, when I don't say anything on my logic, it's because it's actually pretty fucking stupid. What I thought was actually a cute catch from earlier, actually isn't. Blah. Don't drink and Mafia, kids.)
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(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/2356/nitoripopsicle.jpg)
Yeah, I wouldn't clear him over it, but I think it would still force some things. I don't want to talk more about it until he's reappeared and fully claimed, though (and even then I'm not sure I'd want to talk about it fully, given some other factors).
On a side note, the Gensokyo Academy of Science is meeting today, so I'm going to be unavailable for a while. I will try to pop in for a post in about 4-5 hours if there's something relevant to comment on but that's the best I can offer.
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Small note to all: I'll be out pretty much all day today. Helping the other half's folks move furnature. So waiting on mod confirmation for anything will be a bit of a wait indeed.
EDIT: I'll try to get ahold of Mr. Belmont(Snowfire) before I go, but if I don't see him, then poke him in chat if any votecounts are needed.
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Bleh. Been busy, just got time to catch up now. Thankfully, will be around all day today (though it seems everyone else including the mod won't be?). Regarding roleclaim details: I am not allowed to fullclaim, however I may provide rolename: Town-Aligned Roflcopter.
Did a quick look back and saw neither Soviet nor XBox 360 ever having a double vote, so my opinion atm's similar to !Cake's, but I'm going to wait on a response from XBox 360 before calling bullshit on that claim.
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This is madness! No- THIS IS A VOTECOUNT!
Votecount
Flying Spaghetti Monster (2) - THIS IS SPARTA!, in ur base, Chuck Norris
Chuck Norris (3) - Badgers, THIS IS SPARTA!, Flying Spaghetti Monster
Badge, Badger, Badger (0) - Robot Unicorn, I drink your milkshake
Did you know that Chuck Norris only needs one vote to be lynched in the mafia game played in Universe-3748? Too bad that the only votes that count are ones for Mike Huckabee.
As for this universe, no changes.
Votecount
Touhou Hijack:(0) - XBOX
XBOX:(1) - 2girls1cup, The Cake Is A Lie
Rick & Roll: (1) - O R'LYEH!?
It is pretty much LYLO so no deadline. 6 memes -> 4 votes -> ??? -> Profit.
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Hit by combo wave of nausea and business, wasn't around.
And blaugh. I think the game's just stalled. We... *sigh* Damnit, do not like, do not want, but now that we have AYB's commentary, we're pretty much done, and the game's quiet as a tomb. Is there any dissent on current opinion, re: suspicions for today?
I've changed my mind on XBOX waiting because it doesn't narrow the game down enough to make it relevant (in combination with game = silent as the dead), even if he ends up being truth-telling scum, and if he's honest town we're shooting ourselves in the foot here. So whatever. Touhou spotting why I was interested (I think) makes me assuaged as to them a fair amount, however.
I'd like to be one of the lynch votes, but other than that. I'll leave to Touhou to explain what she saw, see if she spotted what I did.
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(http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/492/nitoristare2.jpg)
I noticed that Mr. Astley had been sitting at 1 vote for most of the day, presumably for breaking their post restriction again. If the box can indeed stack votes and his partner is not Mr. Astley, then he and his partner could have rushed Mr. Astley for a victory by now.
Of course, this assumes a lot of things. It assumes the box can indeed stack votes, instead of having to cast his second vote on a second target, it assumes the power was not cut for LYLO (imagine scum having a doublevote power in 3-meme LYLO - not that this is likely to happen now, but it was enough of a possibility at the beginning of the game that I believe it would've been taken into account), it assumes the second vote happens immediately, it assumes the vote can actually be used to rush someone (in conjunction with a mod vote, no less) instead of the mod vote or extra vote disappearing somehow, and it assumes Mr. Astley is not the box's partner.
There's also the matter that the box did not actually try to use his role in his defense, which makes me think one of the above assumptions about his power is a faulty assumption.
I didn't want to talk about this on the off-chance that the box and his non-Astley partner (presumably CATS, since my only other options are the girls and Cake) hadn't thought of it yet, but that's a very slim chance, and given I'm pretty sure I know who CATS is I feel confident in saying he would have thought of it, even if the box didn't.
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Correct observation, though my logic dovetailed differently.
I reduced it to three different corollaries:
1) Lying scum. Simplest solution, changes nothing.
2) Truth-telling town. If this is the case, again, little changes. The role cannot, could never have, itself distinguish him; see my starred commentary below.
3) Truth-telling scum. This is why I had initially wished to know if he was being honest about the role/the details about it, for if he was being entirely honest (and presuming his role functioned without any of the exceptions Touhou raises, though those are accurate logical presumptions) then the only possible scum partner is Astley. (Any other scum partner, in combination with XBOX, could have hammered. This is also why I hesitated to state the logic out loud, but I can't think it would go unnoticed for an entire bloody week or so. If it has then, uh, congrats, oblivious scum win?)
(4) Lying town. This, while possible, is pointless to speculate on.
*** MY COMMENT THAT THE ROLE COULD CLEAR XBOX WAS AN INTENTIONAL LIE. I say this now because I originally was willing enough to try and provoke scum!XBOX into trying to reveal the role; however, in reflecting on it, while I am confident enough on the scumminess to be willing to commit to the lynch of him, in the event of town!XBOX it's a dick move and I can't countenance playing like that. I'm not one of those "never lie if town" players (in fact, the use of my role in full would likely have relied on me lying like hell in order to make scum panic their little asses off while trying to aid town as best I could).
One could speculate that his lack of hammering on Astley clears him of being with anyone except Astley (presuming he's even telling the truth on his role... while scum... uh), but seeing as how my current suspicion lies on Astley and XBOX I don't see it at all. So. Yeah. Heaven or Hell? LET'S ROCK! time, I suppose.
So, yeah. Touhou catches it, I'm more confident on them, in general if I die tonight I wanna see Astley down tomorrow, pretty sure scum is Astley/XBOX. And... and I can't see anything else for this. There's nothing else I have to say, and if this is wrong, well, good game. But I don't expect to be.
(http://imgur.com/hNWF4.jpg) (http://imgur.com/hNWF4.jpg)(http://imgur.com/bpAZj.jpg) (http://imgur.com/bpAZj.jpg)"Let's do this."
##VOTE: HUEG LIEK XBOX
Oh, and one more point of reference: this (http://tinyurl.com/2g9mqh) should set people at ease.
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EBWOP: Incomplete thought process. I'm not one of those "never lie if town" people, but I do not believe that lies should be rugjerks like that (they should be aimed solely to try and deceive scum, with minimum damage done to town) - and in the slim chance I am wrong on XBOX, I deemed it too unkind to be willing to commit to fully.
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And and and I should say this now while I think about it.
Astley's post restriction is fairly obvious and having figured it out is hardly a black mark on Touhou. Think I noticed it as soon as it popped up? Day three at the latest. Wanted this out there in case something crazy was tried final day against them using that avenue. There may be arguments against Touhou! That'd be a stupid one. Since I'm not sure I can expect to see day 6 that needs to be said now.
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I am likewise sold. Not much left to say at this point.
(http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/5427/nitoristaff.jpg)
It's time to pull your plug, scum!
##Vote: HUEG LIEK XBOX
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One vote remaining for the lynch, I'm sifting through final thoughts. AYB I'm considering even higher than Touhou at this point, honestly, though my explanation for why is somewhat complex and not entirely logical. Suffice to say that sitting/campaigning against a scumbuddy for so long isn't something I'd consider optimal. !cake is !cake is !cake.
Butterscotch moon hapkido walnut waltz.
...hey, not all final thoughts are coherent. Regardless, even though the butterflies are rampant in my stomach, my head tells me this is the right course of action, so I've no regrets.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/Bane_v2/Forums/Dialog%20Boxes/HammerTime.gif)
##Vote: Hueg Liek XBox
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Indeed it is. Actually heading out for lunch right now, will make a proper lynch post when I return.
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Well, shit. Surgery went fine, home now, but guess I'm too late.
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Oh, and just in case by some miracle I'm not actually dead and we've not actually lost, I believe a demonstration was called for, so XBOX SIZED ##Vote: Touhou Hijack. No idea whether it'll show up in the votecounts.
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And as if I hadn't screwed up enough this game, I forgot the all caps. ##Unvote, ##VOTE: TOUHOU HIJACK
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Well... it's too late... but sure, final votecount for kicks. Surgery's a good excuse.
Votecount
Touhou Hijack:(2) - HUEG LIKE XBOX, HUEG LIKE XBOX
XBOX:(4) - 2girls1cup, The Cake Is A Lie, 2girls1cup, Touhou Hijacker, All Your Base
Rick & Roll: (1) - O R'LYEH!?
XBox's vote is HUEG! It is very impressive. It dwarfs measly other votes. Though not enough.
(http://www.busygamer.com/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/a_xbox3ring.jpg)
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2girls1cup used FULL MOON CUP JUTSU - DOUBLE PERIOD OVERFLOW!
Critical hit!
It's Super Effective!
HUEG LIEK XBOX fainted...
HUEG LIKE XBOX, Town Power Charger, has been hit in the face really hard with...well, it's really best not to contemplate that.
And, since all relevant Night Actions are already in, I can go ahead and post this now.
2girls1cup, Town Scarecrow('s loathsome corpse), has been deposted in the nearest large body of water.
TOUHOU HIJACK LOL, Scum Mad Journalist(previously Purveyor of Fine Leather Jackets(previously Kappa Fanthing~)) and All Your Base, Scum Roflcoptr, have won the game!
The Cake Is A Lie, Third Party Landshark, has also won the game!
And now, for a quick summary of this entire game, Combo Breaker style:
Derp
Derp
Derp
Derp
Derp
Derp
Derp
Derp
Derp
Derp
Derp Derp
Derp
Derp
Derp Derp
Derp
Derp Derp
>_>
<_<
^_^;
Anyway, game's over folks. Speak as ye will.
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(http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/5632/kogasa.png)
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SCREW YOU TOUHOU.
"You are now a Kappa Fanthing~. During the night, you can spin~ and change the target of someone's actions."
"OH BUT YOU'RE ALSO DEAD."
asfdgfd. :(
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I'm going to sound like an utter dick here, but man did watching this game play out frustrate me.
The :rage: is pretty hard right now. Scum played badly, but town played worse. There's absolutely no way that my death should have led to town collapsing quite so horrifically in day 3. The implosion at the end of day 5 was also incredibly disheartening as budding insight gave way to apathy and impatience.
2g1c: you were like my one ray of hope at that point, and had been since you emerged from the utter chaos that day 3 had led to. Your play made me think that if my death had turned you from flying under the radar to town leader then the net result of my death was to lose a lurker. And you did so well until you just gave up at the end there. Why would you not wait for him to show up again? As soon as he does, you've got him bang to rights or know you have to lynch Duck Roll v2 first and have to think again. You even knew this and decided that you couldn't be bothered to wait, what the hell. One step short of an emphatic MVP endorsement.
And that's the really frustrating thing. I felt that by my death the game had already been handed on a silver platter to town by scum. There was so, so much breathing room and plenty to verify and track and narrow down and so much scum movement to work with, but you managed to spend the time on the pettiest and daftest of possibilities without seeing the important simple things and letting an easy scum pair just whistle their way out of the hot spot (I really don't know how CATS seemed to garner so little attention after he spent the entire game playing the same trick over and over). No, I don't think it could have likely been done without at least one mislynch (and I believe only I had the player-meta to clear XBox 360), but by day 5 it felt so very, very clear (and the leather jacket being on Hijack meant that you could have set up day 6 to be really simple, because he wouldn't have been able to use it). Surely CATS's soft claim made it really, really obvious if you hadn't worked it out already?
I'm not even very good at finding scum myself, but this whole game felt like a gimme after a while.
For what it's worth, my top pairing was actually CATS/Rick Astley, but with CATS/Hijack second and the only pair I'd only really consider, and bugged the mod with exactly what course of action town should be taking. Voting Gatewalker for biggest victim of this game, by the way, because I spent so much time venting my frustration about the nosedive the game had taken in the form of PMs to him.
Wasn't actually expecting !cake to be third party, but I suppose the utter apathy come day 4 should have told me that he knew he had won regardless of anything he did at that point.
Milhouse: minor thing in comparison, but it occurred to me later that you'd have served town much better had you soft claimed and just said something like "I have role-related information that confirms -2C is scum", so as to not waste the lynch and either draw the NK or get another investigation off instead. Marking off a mislynch and letting the roleblocker get another action was kind of painful.
RickRoll: that emotional outburst at the end of day 2 was still seriously uncool, and would have seen me leading the train against you come day 4.
And hopefully that's all of the :rage: out of the system.
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Yay for team win, at least. Wish I had made it farther. *sigh* The one time I bend my rule about no anon-mafia and I get killed night 1.
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Gonna be afk most of the rest of today, so I'll do a full reveal post tomorrow.
For the moment though, I would like to point out that even "I have role-related information that confirms -2C is scum" would have gotten Milhouse modkilled. His restriction wasn't against claiming fullcop, it was against claiming ANY information based role. Period. Or even claiming to have one but not specifying. Saying that he had role-related information to confirm anything would have done it. Bastard modding? Oh, certainly. But that's one of the reasons I put that warning right in the first post. >_>
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Well, whatever. It was a minor point, and I'm sure there's a line somewhere that would have got the guy lynched day 2 and not wasted the mislynch. Just strongly pushing the lynch, for one thing.
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Well, nice playing with everyone. In case anyone didn't notice, this was my first forum mafia game; more different from live-action than I expected. I can see I'm going to have to relearn my scumhunting skills. (And recalibrate how much I rely on logic; I'm used to playing with mathematicians).
I was surprised by how intense this felt; I probably won't play the next game unless there's a substantial break between them, I need a few days off. But I do intend to play here again.
My one regret would be not thinking through the implications of Shana's role (i.e. that given the extra vote requirement, Shana being a busdriver too was pretty unlikely) before making my early-morning almost-hammer, but I don't think I could've stemmed the tide even if I had. I'd resigned myself to the game being lost while I was in hospital, so to see that I was only an hour too late to potentially have kept it going (and could've done if I'd posted first thing when I got home) is irritating, but it happens; can't regret that sort of thing.
Not sure what was going on between myself and 2g1c; truth be told, even to the very end I was expecting them to flip some sort of uberscum. Guess I've got a lot to learn.
Congratulations to the winners, particularly Touhou, and I look forward to next time.
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Fun game to watch up until about...the end of day 2. Then day 3 was a bit of a non-day and most of the trails went cold.
Gate: I'd be curious to know what all the roles actually do. Some of them seemed like fairly neat effects, but I can't get anything out of the role names.
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My one regret would be not thinking through the implications of Shana's role (i.e. that given the extra vote requirement, Shana being a busdriver too was pretty unlikely)
Damn it man, stop thinking about stupid role combinations as means to clear someone. No, that absolutely means nothing. Like nearly everything else you suggested. That paved to your mislynch so easily.
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I'm not even very good at finding scum myself, but this whole game felt like a gimme after a while.
This. Lolcat and combo were really blatant, and the other two weren't hard to figure out. Town in general outside of Milhouse day one and advice dog didn't have good games.
I completely lost interest in day 3 with the image spamming. That wasn't cute or good scum play, it made me not even want to read the game. The mod really should have stepped in and stopped it.
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(http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/4028/advicemomizinight2.jpg)
I think the game had a sufficient number of odd factors that Xanth's rant...well, I'm not sure I would say it isn't warranted (I felt like I had to work my ass off the entire time to keep myself alive and set up one of the masons as my buddy should I eventually get lynched (like I really should have been, tbh)), but town got crazy lucky with night actions this game, so the daytime play was regression to the luck norm if nothing else and as such I feel less bad about how things played out. And, well, bofh and I had the Day 2 trains to keep us going, which was pretty handy for us. (Yes, both of Breaker's buddies were on him, and the swing back to Russia was 100% town in origin.)
I also understand that Rat's total lack of a meaningful Day 4 case on me was a result of real-life issues. I extend my sympathies to him as a result.
I'm also glad we nabbed Roukan a win. MotK represent.
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Town getting lucky at night does not balance out by town having a stroke during the day.
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Eh. Like I said, between putting so much effort into bullshitting my way through the rest of the game and the myriad of other factors (side note: Russia's No Lynch + mass claim plan would have won the game for town, since we had basically no reasonable fakeclaims on our side) I'm less than sympathetic to how things played out. 2G1C in particular there was nothing wrong with, it was just that Xbox and the mason pair looked really bad for in-game reasons related to actions before Day 3.
Also, and yes, this is somewhat pig-headed, but I don't like being told that town lost this game more than scum won it after the amount of effort I put into staying alive.
But I guess I'm biased.
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As I said, scum played badly, town one upped you by playing worse.
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No, I don't think it could have likely been done without at least one mislynch (and I believe only I had the player-meta to clear XBox 360), but by day 5 it felt so very, very clear (and the leather jacket being on Hijack meant that you could have set up day 6 to be really simple, because he wouldn't have been able to use it). Surely CATS's soft claim made it really, really obvious if you hadn't worked it out already?
FWIW, there was a decent chance that I'd be offed D6, but you yourself said that it's unlikely that it'd occur without one mislynch on D5, with the issue that thanks to BelAir being a derpsicle, D5 became LYLO.
Anyway, decent game. I played quite horribly, apologies to everyone involved, but perpetually-increasing amounts of schoolwork/projects/assignments and thus perpetually-dwindling amounts of time that I had to actually devote to this game led to a lot of unintentional lurking and a lot of posts that I was going to work on and then spent 20 hours doing a stat mech II assignment or something and by then yeah.
XBox 360 fully deserved the lynch, his play was horrible. What shouldn't have happened, though, was the D4 ShikiShana lynch, and the fact that it occurred largely due to apathy both on the end of ShikiShana (who had the right idea, just poor execution, as I had stated myself >_>) and the rest of Town, is nothing short of aggravating.
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That's the thing. I don't know where I played badly outside of getting caught red-handed on Night 2, which was stupid town role luck. The Day 3 flailing, maybe, but what else was there?
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Wouldn't say it was stupid role luck at all. I figured either Cake or Dog would go, targeted Cake on the basis of them having a more useful role on the whole.
That said, I'd say one of the most stupid Town decisions in the game was accepting Killer Instinct, so... yeah. >_>
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Okaaaaaay, I totally didn't deserve that. :V
Played like crap D1, to be honest - in fact, I asked the mod N1 if I was allowed to NK myself in a ragequit. Got tut-tutted, though, so I decided to just fight on and see if I could fluke with a hit in case I got lucky. If not, well, I managed to kill someone at least. Hitting lolcats was more or less a lucky shot. >_>
After that, I was mostly paranoid that scum would end up hitting me in which case I was pretty screwed regardless. As for hunting, I genuinely did believe that Touhou was Town, and for that I'm giving her credit. Base really managed to get away because so many Townies were just as bad - Bel-Air contributing next to nothing, Rick's last-minute rant on D2, Xbox being pretty horrible on every level...
That said, Shana and Xbox get credit for figuring out Touhou when everyone else was taken in. GJ.
And, uh, MotK represent...? (I have no idea who is who, sorry. >_>)
EDIT: "You are now a Kappa Fanthing~. During the night, you can spin~ and change the target of someone's actions."
OH CRAP, YOU MENTIONED HINA BOTH TIMES YOUR ROLE CAME UP
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
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CATS: I meant at least one mislynch from day 3 onwards, not day 5. And I'd have had Boxed Air lynched if anything, so we wouldn't have 'lost' that.
Hijack: you were practically dead against the wall from all of the role play alone, and the jacket would have killed you. Sorry, but that's just about enough in itself, and had you utterly strangled. In terms of play, your tack changed considerably the minute that you started taking the flak, and your inability to think town out of the chaos at the start of day 3 dropped you massively in my opinion (by about mid-day 3 - my reaction at the start of day 3 was to clear too many people). It only became blazingly obvious right at the very end when you were like 'hey, if XBox proves himself then he's town, or definitely paired with Rick' and didn't, you know, stop. Not that I'll hold that particular point against you given that town had already totally imploded by then.
Yoshi: it was a coin toss. It wasn't automatic so it wasn't the scum kill. Seemed too stupid for it to be from !cake. Didn't expect it to be a killing power in any case, but anything seemed fine so long as I had it documented before accepting it. And oh, right, yeah, if that's the fluke that Hijack is talking about then lol.
!Cake: hilariously, you were fine the minute you hit me, because it castrated you so you were no longer a threat to scum (who were rightly terrified of the jacket), but not bad enough to undo the lolcats kill cred. You could have sat and done nothing for the rest of the game and probably still come close to winning. I assumed that was why you stopped caring in the slightest come like day 4 or thereabouts.
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I'm not even very good at finding scum myself, but this whole game felt like a gimme after a while.
This. Lolcat and combo were really blatant, and the other two weren't hard to figure out. Town in general outside of Milhouse day one and advice dog didn't have good games.
I completely lost interest in day 3 with the image spamming. That wasn't cute or good scum play, it made me not even want to read the game. The mod really should have stepped in and stopped it.
I disagree. While it was annoying as fuck, I would say it was good scum play. What else is he going to do, being a sitting duck due to a supercop that had their role shown? Nothing he says is going to be taken seriously at all, so his best bet is to make communication difficult and to serve as a distraction to the townies. It doesn't hurt scum, since they can communicate outside the game topic.
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If most of what can be held against me is rolestuffs then I don't care, because that has zero bearing on play quality. (The jacket in particular I had plans for, so I don't hold that decision against myself.)
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Making the topic physically difficult to load is well beyond the acceptable boundries of Mafia playing for me, and the image macro spamming did that.
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EDIT: "You are now a Kappa Fanthing~. During the night, you can spin~ and change the target of someone's actions."
OH CRAP, YOU MENTIONED HINA BOTH TIMES YOUR ROLE CAME UP
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
That was actually not intentional, but it's amusingly cute in retrospect.
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!Cake: hilariously, you were fine the minute you hit me, because it castrated you so you were no longer a threat to scum (who were rightly terrified of the jacket), but not bad enough to undo the lolcats kill cred. You could have sat and done nothing for the rest of the game and probably still come close to winning. I assumed that was why you stopped caring in the slightest come like day 4 or thereabouts.
Honestly that was more a result of 'oh god words words words roles roles roles everyone looks terrible FFFFFFFFF-hey, easy case on Shana that no-one can hold against me! :D'
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Good for scum, yes.
Good for play, no.
I know my whining and raging right now is going to make this sound hypocritical to the extreme, but the first goal of mafia is to have fun, and being annoying as hell for days on end or however long it lasted is contradictory to this. Ignoring the actual physical factors like page load and crashing the forum that Halbarad complained about, which just meant it took it that much further across the line.
Hijack: sorry if I'm raining on your parade or something.
Oh so many ninjas.
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Making the topic physically difficult to load is well beyond the acceptable boundries of Mafia playing for me, and the image macro spamming did that.
And when that actually happened Gate stepped on it. Unless you were having problems before the animations in which case I have no idea what your problem was, the static shots weren't really all that big.
Good for scum, yes.
Good for play, no.
I know my whining and raging right now is going to make this sound hypocritical to the extreme, but the first goal of mafia is to have fun, and being annoying as hell for days on end or however long it lasted is contradictory to this. Ignoring the actual physical factors like page load and crashing the forum that Halbarad complained about, which just meant it took it that much further across the line.
Hijack: sorry if I'm raining on your parade or something.
Oh so many ninjas.
So what, you think he should have just rolled over and played dead or something? Frankly, all you have to do is turn off images in your browser temporarily and he's a total non-factor. Add in that he did it all with the mod's blessing and you don't have a leg to stand on. Hell, all you have to do is just scroll past his posts and he's just a minor annoyance at best.
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I understand that you're frustrated, and rightfully so. I guess this is me being frustrated as well, because (like I've said a few times already) I felt like I had to work my ass off to make sure I stayed alive to the end, and the entirety of postgame (both here and on IRC) has been distaste with town for mucking things up (and rage at the Breaker for Day 3 but that's less relevant). I feel like all my efforts were wasted with the way people are talking like I could have sat there and done nothing and still won.
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I disagree. While it was annoying as fuck, I would say it was good scum play. What else is he going to do, being a sitting duck due to a supercop that had their role shown? Nothing he says is going to be taken seriously at all, so his best bet is to make communication difficult and to serve as a distraction to the townies. It doesn't hurt scum, since they can communicate outside the game topic.
QFT
Now, in retrospect, a multi-post of text would have been preferable to the images, but the Post Enough To Hide Meaningful Dialogue is a valid scum tool once we're caught. There is NO reason for scum to let town get any time to further discuss things and find another scum buddy once they've decided to lynch you. It benefits town greatly to go 'Hey we've got scum, now let's re-start the day and see how much longer we can drag it out so we can find others'. Time helps town and hurts scum. In future games I certainly wouldn't multi-post images like this one, but constantly post so that it was hard to hold a decent discussion by town? Yeah, I'd do that. Loading problems certainly preclude an image spam, but a post spam with text when you've been positively identified and everyone agrees to lynch you is a valid tactic. It encourages town to actually lynch scum instead of talking us to death. Which is ALWAYS the way town goes. The number of times town has lynched before deadline, even when they all agree someone is scum, is closer to nil than double digits.
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Combo Breaker's last day play would have been unacceptable in any other mafia game, but this being the Meme Mafia made it a funny and flavor-fitting move, from this spectator's viewpoint.
EDIT: Spamspamspam is not a valid tactic to adopt into other mafia games, that's just being a dick. Just, yeah, flavor is perfect for it here.
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And catnip to Touhou cause I think you did great. I was certain you were dead about day 3 and the fact that you pulled it out and won us the day was great.
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Yes, standard scum play on being hit by a cop is to play stone cold dead.
And lol, make your mind up. First it's good scum play because it makes communication difficult. Now he's him not getting in the way. Joy!
So far as I see it, you think it's good that he can come in and just irritate town. I think it's bad game etiquette to do something for the sole purpose of annoying people for scum game. Pretty sure we can agree to disagree at that point.
Also, mods are known to be fallible, so the fact that Gate allowed it means that it has to be tolerated in that game, not that it was right that it happened. That's part of what after game discussions are for, after all.
The ninjas just keep getting faster.
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And this just keeps getting uglier. I'm going to step out now before I take it too far, hard and fast and turn the game into more regrets. Me getting more frustrated is just going to make it worse for everyone.
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As a note, I was Combo Breaker. To those who may not know me, I'm not really like that. If it was not AnonyMeme Bastard Modfia, I probably wouldn't have done it. At all times I acted with the full support of the mod, and constantly checked with him to see if I was going over the line. I didn't really mean to break the topic for any of the players, and at the time it seemed that no one was really having a problem loading the topic (at least, among the players still alive). I would have (and did, on one occasion) gone back and fix things that were giving people problems.
That said, I won't apologize outside of that. I stand by my play. Good for scum, bad for play? Thats the point! It's not my job to make things easy for town. It's my job to make things HARDER for town. If you're gonna play, play to win.
I can understand Advice Dog's frustration though. It had to be rough on town watching them grasp defeat from certain victory. And I'm proud to say I was a part of the reason that happened.
And that's the really frustrating thing. I felt that by my death the game had already been handed on a silver platter to town by scum. There was so, so much breathing room and plenty to verify and track and narrow down and so much scum movement to work with, but you managed to spend the time on the pettiest and daftest of possibilities without seeing the important simple things and letting an easy scum pair just whistle their way out of the hot spot (I really don't know how CATS seemed to garner so little attention after he spent the entire game playing the same trick over and over). No, I don't think it could have likely been done without at least one mislynch (and I believe only I had the player-meta to clear XBox 360), but by day 5 it felt so very, very clear (and the leather jacket being on Hijack meant that you could have set up day 6 to be really simple, because he wouldn't have been able to use it). Surely CATS's soft claim made it really, really obvious if you hadn't worked it out already?
I'll admit I didn't play that great (aside from being a REALLY effective troll), but AYB and Touhou played their parts perfectly. The simple tricks work the best. Town DID grasp defeat from the jaws of certain victory, I'll agree.
There are some things I shook my head at though. Like getting called scummy for saying role speculation in Day 1 was stupid. That was just... yeaaaaah. Just as a note to people: I might have been scum this game, but I would have said this as town too. Role speculation in day 1 IS stupid.
Kinda glad my pushing to nightkill 2G1C Night 2 didn't go through now. It's countered though by convincing the rest of scum out of nightkilling Shana.
My top 5 personal favorite trolling moments, in no particular order:
The History of Monorail Cats
CSI Advice Dog
Derp Marquee
Ronald McDonald Crucified
Waldorf and Statler
Honorable mention to Principal Vernon though. I apologize for that last one to 2G1C. It was too tempting to pass up.
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I'm saying it was a good idea and you're bitching about nothing because even as a good idea there were ways around it. I know you're frustrated but it is just a game in the end, you aren't REALLY dead, so maybe you should just chill a bit.
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Yes, standard scum play on being hit by a cop is to play stone cold dead.
This is also moronic Scumplay. What he did was optimal, as it effectively shut down discussion for most of D3.
Also, to repeat what Yakumo said, as I've been saying this in IRC as well, you can turn off displaying images in the browser settings very quickly and easily, and once you've done that, anything that C-C-C-C did lost any and all annoyance capability. Heck, he managed to crash FF for me a couple times (I think I might have accidentally found a bug in Gecko's image rendering routines thanks to this), but then I just realised "derp let's turn off images" and yeah.
Also, some of the images were hilarious. I just about lost it at all of Wall'o'Derps, Wall'o'Psyduckrolls, The History of the Monorail Cat, Advice Dog YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH and Ronaldjesus.
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Yeah. Yakko's got it. Town COULD have ended it at any time. They chose not to. In fact, not lynching me ended up being the worst thing they could have done because it ended up with everyone divulging their roles and turning a rather difficult night for scum into something much, much easier to figure out. If I'd ended up with my self-hammer working, none of that would have been out and town would have been much better off.
Still glad I got to hammer myself in the end.
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Also, to repeat what Yakumo said, as I've been saying this in IRC as well, you can turn off displaying images in the browser settings very quickly and easily, and once you've done that, anything that C-C-C-C did lost any and all annoyance capability. Heck, he managed to crash FF for me a couple times (I think I might have accidentally found a bug in Gecko's image rendering routines thanks to this), but then I just realised "derp let's turn off images" and yeah.
Really? See, this is why I kept asking you guys about it. If you'd told me you were having problems loading the topic then I probably would have toned it down. Oh well. No use crying over spilt milk.
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I guess it's a question of where you draw the line between inside and outside the game; any good scum action will and should annoy town players on some level. Personally I thought it was fine (but I also thought the appropriate town response was to post any utterly vital role results and then lynch ASAP rather than trying to have a proper discussion, which would have meant it had much less impact. I could easily be wrong), but I can understand disagreeing.
Even if it's fine by most players, it might be better to avoid it if it severely annoys a minority (I don't think anyone's claiming it made the game enormously better for them, are they?)
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And all I'm saying is that playing like a dick is no way to play a social game. I accept the flavour and that you wouldn't do it otherwise or in other games, but I disagree with this building train of opinions that it's okay to be quite such a nuisance in the pursuit of victory. That's why it doesn't happen otherwise.
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The B-B-B-B-BROWSER BREAKER spam didn't give my computer any problems.
I'm refraining from commenting on that whole issue because I don't feel my position allows me to (and because I can see both sides of the argument as a result).
I will say that Derpscroll almost made me fall out of my chair.
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I guess it's a question of where you draw the line between inside and outside the game; any good scum action will and should annoy town players on some level. Personally I thought it was fine (but I also thought the appropriate town response was to post any utterly vital role results and then lynch ASAP rather than trying to have a proper discussion, which would have meant it had much less impact. I could easily be wrong), but I can understand disagreeing.
Even if it's fine by most players, it might be better to avoid it if it severely annoys a minority (I don't think anyone's claiming it made the game enormously better for them, are they?)
Fair enough, but the whole thing was a clusterfuck from the beginning, which I'll go over just so people can get an idea of where it came from. The reason it was shitty at the start and gradually more clever/funnier was because I originally was intending to use it to quick-hammer myself, as my role restriction stated that posting twice in a row would result in a modvote for me. I didn't put a lot of thought into it for this reason. I was just gonna quickhammer, I didn't plan on doing it the entire day.
However, I didn't read my role PM all the way. I didn't notice that it would only result in a MAX of 1 modvote and missed the chance for self-voting for the hammer. This bummed me out in a way that you could not understand, because it was just another example of the bad luck, inattentiveness and general stupidity that's been plaguing me lately.
Then while trying to figure out what to do it just dawned on me to troll. Troll like I never had before. And if I was going to do it, go all the way with it, because any less would just not make it worth it. It took a bit to really find the groove, but think it was around this one (http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,4662.msg100659.html#msg100659) where I really hit my stride.
And all I'm saying is that playing like a dick is no way to play a social game. I accept the flavour and that you wouldn't do it otherwise or in other games, but I disagree with this building train of opinions that it's okay to be quite such a nuisance in the pursuit of victory. That's why it doesn't happen otherwise.
If town won, I was prepared for all the lourding it over my head that would have resulted about "Town winning despite mass annoyances". Social games are still games. We're still playing to win. It's not like I was cheating or anything, I just used a less than acceptable way to try to win.
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If I'm going to try and get this back on tracks, then here are a few things I'd be interested in knowing:
What actually happened night 1? I mean, with Dawg dying and all.
General inquiry into the powers that we never got to see, as much as that was always going to follow. As my role name implied, I was completely vanilla except from the night talking ability. I'd gone into it assuming that Insomniac was going to be a catch all for everyone who didn't otherwise get a role (from the popularity of Hero mafia), and as a smokescreen for an actual power role and/or scum or something, so was really surprised it was just me in the end.
Likewise post restrictions. Didn't follow what was happening to Duck Roll v2 all of the time, and Zerg seems to have had a post disappear right at the start.
!Cake: were you just a survivor with a kill attached? I forget if that's standard SK territory or if they actually need to properly end game it. Not that you were really SK anyway. Sounds like you were planning on winning with town if possible?
What did everyone else think of the jacket? I'm trying to weigh it up in my head, and I'm falling towards it being too strong. Scum just had to keep on killing the person who had it (good catch on catching on to that while it was still with Commie).
Commie, what was up with you in general? I mean, actual plans and so on. You kept on stepping up as time went on.
And yeah, general shout out again to 2g1c for almost bringing the pieces back together again.
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!Cake: were you just a survivor with a kill attached? I forget if that's standard SK territory or if they actually need to properly end game it. Not that you were really SK anyway. Sounds like you were planning on winning with town if possible?
Yes, and it was literally as I advertised it. Offer someone a gift at night, they accept it they die, if not nothing, blah blah blah.
I was intending to win with Town, mainly because I assumed after the roleclaim clusterfuck D3 it was gonna be pretty easy. Thennn things sorta went to shit and I decided I'd go with anything that came my way.
EDIT: Pretty sure scum set themselves up to hit 2g1c N5, so I was fine anyway.
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I will ALSO say that, despite everything that happened Night 2/Day 3 and the rage that was going on at that time for having my first two days' play get thrown away so easily, I had fun playing this game. It didn't matter if it was being the best townie I could on the first two days or bullshitting up a storm on the last two, I had just as much fun with each and would have accepted a loss had that happened, because hey, roles are a part of the game, too. Day 3 was very aggravating, yes, but it helped a lot when I decided to just...well.
(http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/9650/yukkuri.jpg)
I hope I was not the only one that enjoyed playing this game, ignoring aggravation with the town loss or rage at Soppy for trolling.
Xanth: We killed Tom because the way he played D1 suggested a meaningful power role. As the game wore on we assumed he had a protective role (especially since you actually died).
We were also hoping his death would create a giant WIFOM cloud around Soppy's head, though that was mostly my idea. For all the good that line of thinking did us in the end.
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I don't know most of the restrictions, but my understanding of the Zerg thing was that Andy posted with his own account and not the Rush, and then deleted the post himself.
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For Zerg's ability, amongst other stuff, my post-death convo with Gate:
[22:25] <Yoshiken> Can I just say:
[22:25] <Yoshiken> AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH. :(
[22:25] <Gatewalker> hahahaha
[22:25] <Gatewalker> ;_;
[22:25] <Yoshiken> I should have stuck with it. ><;
[22:26] <Gatewalker> You were up against Kilga there, man. He's good.
[22:27] <Yoshiken> Heh. I figured whoever it was was a good player either way, just.. damn. Should've known not to trust his reaction to me calling him out on targeting Cake.
[22:28] <Yoshiken> Oh yeah, if I can ask now, what -is- Skindancer or whatever Zerg's role was? XD
[22:30] <Gatewalker> If he was the hammering vote on someone, he stole thier power for one night.
[22:30] <Gatewalker> Also a miller
[22:37] <Yoshiken> So.. is AYB or Xbox the last one? (don't tell me it's Bel Air please i am going to kill things if it is yup yup)
[22:37] <Gatewalker> It is indeed one of Base and Box
[22:37] <Yoshiken> Phew. I'd go with AYB then.
I'd already guessed Kilga by this point anyways, so... yeah, that clears the Skindancer thing.
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Andy posted with AndrewRogue instead of Zerg Rush, yes. I felt terrible that my post naming him wasn't deleted after his post was.
Speaking of, I have gone this long without mentioning that I absolutely loved Andy's D1 RP and was sad when people started telling him to knock it off. Alex's RP was great as well. Scumchat topic has said something about not killing either of them because they're too amusing since about the middle of Day 1.
Really, RPing fell off the table from most people far too quickly for my tastes. I'm glad Xanth at least kept the ADogs coming.
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/me waves. Milhouse here!
And well, I had fun playing the game. Also found Soppy's trollery hilarious - although the images didn't -need- to be that huge. Day 3, the only reason I came to watch was for the macrospam, because the whole thing devolved into such a complete trainwreck.
And sorry about the whole dumping day 2 on you guys - optimally, I was perfectly safe until day 3 at least, but I would be completely absent from that point on, and I didn't want to be essentially a mafia ghost at that juncture. Regardless.
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Well, it's kind of hard with meme mafia for the most part, because there's little to nothing to role play for most memes. When I was applying for the game I sat and down and thought what meme could be used in the long run, not which one I liked most. Not much of a fan of most of the advice dog and related stuff, personally, but it could be mutated to fit the game pretty well (and no, I was never planning on swapping to any advice dog variants). I think Demotivational Posters would have been my first choice for being a bit more flexible, but must have already long since gone.
Which relates to my other thing about anonymous mafia games: they're nice and all, but they're really, really hard to read in retrospect. Look back any further than the current one and you'll find it really irritating to keep track of who's who on account of the accounts changing from game to game. Not that I'm saying new accounts should be generated each time (ignoring the practical nuisances, it would reduce tension in hindsight as you could use post count to guess when someone was about to die). But yeah, I'm a big fan of making a big imprint, and while awesome RP would be the ideal for people to strive for, my cheap way of marking my presence has been the picture route, making it easy to track at least Samurai Jack, Beatrice and Advice Dog, and I recall at least Gumshoe, Weasel Squad and now Touhou Hijack doing similar for other people.
I'm sure there are people who've gone for the ideal and made all of their posts readily identifiable from role play alone, but oddly enough the only one who comes to mind is both instances of the Prinny Squad, because 'dood' is such a nice and easy identifier. Probably likewise Zerg Rush in this game, assuming that he spammed 'kekekekeke' everywhere.
(taking that to its logical extreme, I suppose everyone could identify their posts with archival in mind by starting all of them with their name, but this seems to rather miss the point)
Edit: oh, yeah, Yoshiken. Forgot about you as Poster for the picture people list about, as obvious as it should have been. Oops.
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Okay, can't sleep, so back again. I tried to include a demotivator in every post - no particular post restriction, just felt like it. That said, I started linking them instead of using img tags after I was accused of being high-profile low-content. Also missed one or two near the end, generally due to tiredness.
Oh, and because I feel I should: the majority of my demotivators came from motifake.com and demotywatory.com. The rest were either a basic Google search (which generally led to wordpress) or badly made by me.
And, since I skimmed over it in-game, I'll repeat now:
(http://i41.tinypic.com/8wim2r.jpg)
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I'll agree that Combo Breaker day 3 was hilarious, but I can certainly understand that if anyone had a shitty net connection as I do on occasion, they would have wanted to throttle him.
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Combo Breaker's last day play would have been unacceptable in any other mafia game, but this being the Meme Mafia made it a funny and flavor-fitting move, from this spectator's viewpoint.
EDIT: Spamspamspam is not a valid tactic to adopt into other mafia games, that's just being a dick. Just, yeah, flavor is perfect for it here.
This. In a normal game I agree it would be anti-fun, but this was a game of memes INTERNET TROLLS use. Trolling is just flavorful roleplay here. I must admit, Sopko definitely threw himself into it with greater abandon than expected, but can't fault him too much. Wall of derps FTW.
Tues Mar 9 2010 2:17pm [2:17pm] *SnowFire* May have been for the best anyway, woulda been tough for scum to recover from NK N1 + lynch D2.
Tues Mar 9 2010 2:17pm [2:17pm] *SnowFire* Although I will say there is a certain liberation from knowing you're getting lynched Day 3. You can just troll town!
Tues Mar 9 2010 2:17pm [2:17pm] *SpectralSoppy* Like I'm posting Day 3
Tues Mar 9 2010 2:18pm [2:18pm] *SnowFire* You can at least post hilarious pictures of cats or something.
Tues Mar 9 2010 2:18pm [2:18pm] *SpectralSoppy* I think I'll just keep posting C-C-COMBO BREAKER!
Tues Mar 9 2010 2:19pm [2:19pm] *SnowFire* That works, too.
Milhouse / D2 madness: Well, I don't want to criticize him too much as he said in his final post that he was stressed out, but I agree with Xanth that a softclaim would have been perfect. The Cassandra was not allowed to *roleclaim* in anyway, but nothing stopped him from revealing the *results* of an investigation. This could be as simple as "C-C-C-Combo Breaker is scum, I bet my life on it, lynch ME if you don't believe me to see me flip townie" to full-on sarcastic "analysis" of posts. i.e. role speculation is legit from normal players, so is post analysis, so paste an image of Sherlock Holmes and "analyze" a CCCOMBO joke-vote to see all the tell-tale signs of the rolecop/roleblocker combination and evil syndrome and declare you were perfectly serious. I think Gatewalker would be hard pressed to modkill over that, since suspiciously strange/bad play isn't really the same as a roleclaim if everyone else does the work to figure out what Cassanda's been smoking and why she's analyzing jokevotes.
There's also the fact that the CCCCOmbo train was still winning at the time, though maybe time considerations factored in - it was technically a tie but Soviet's vote was on someone else and surely would have moved to CCCCombo by the end. The 2 scum dead on Day 2 option would have surely led to a runaway victory for town. Anyway, it was almost all townies who started getting cold feet about CCCCombo's lynch, which did swing things toward scum later.
All Your Base: Was surprised that AYB didn't... well. I won't spoil yet but I figured that once LYLO was announced he'd stir the pot a bit.
The last day: I have to wonder why there wasn't more suspicion over Touhou surviving so long with a power role. Kilga did a good job at throwing suspicion elsewhere, and 2g1c was correct in that it was technically possible for all of Cake / Demotivate / Touhou to all be town... but at the very least he should have been under HUEG suspicion. If someone claims a power role, sure, leave 'em alive for awhile, but when it comes to LYLO and they're still alive, it's okay to wonder a bit *why* and do some fabled nightkill speculation. Town Tracker would be pretty gutsy for scum to leave alive, and Touhou's claim of tracking XBox nowhere is an uneasy fit with "TownTouhou / ScumBox." Sure, maybe XBox went on the kill and ??? mysterious Bus Driver switched the Box and someone else... but continuing to use Bus Driver once a town tracker has claimed would be *really* gutsy. Seeing someone target two people is basically a dead giveaway at that point, and the gain is practically a coinflip. So yeah, puzzled that town didn't bring this up more.
That also makes me wonder why more people weren't advocating no lynch the last day, despite it being a valid vote this game. Sure once XBox claimed doublevoter that was out of the picture - potential scumTouhou grabs the doublevote, then scum does a 3-vote quick hammer with 5 memes around. But everyone else didn't know that! Give TownTouhou another shot at tracking a kill, and/or getting killed herself. Maybe Touhou makes it easy by spotting / claiming to spot a kill, or Touhou gets cleared by death.
Doublevoters: Not much to say but compliments to Soviet Russia and XBox in the discipline in not using doublevoter at all. That's one of those powers that's only really helpful to town in LYLO and there's definitely no need to let scum know about it.
Advice Dog: Not much to say, but definitely nice job leading town while you were alive. And I hadn't heard of Robot Unicorns before, either. The pictures were pretty hilarious, though if I had to single out one...
(http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/7885/655701.jpg)
Seems scum liked the last half of that bit of advice, too!
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Speaking of role play, who was soviet? Easily the most entertaining player to read.
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Which relates to my other thing about anonymous mafia games: they're nice and all, but they're really, really hard to read in retrospect. Look back any further than the current one and you'll find it really irritating to keep track of who's who on account of the accounts changing from game to game.
I wasn't going to say anything because I didn't play, but I may be able to help with this.
I wrote a thing in GameMaker for school that was meant to be a tutorial on how to play Mafia. What I did was I took an actual game, transcribed it into my game and then posted commentary on it (it's not done, so I'm not going to post it yet). Anyway, I could easily transcribe all of the anonymafier games into something like that and preserve them that way, or I could upload the engine and let someone else go through the amount of tedium it takes to do that. :P I would need help figuring out who everyone is in the past games though and how to preserve certain things because I can't (or rather don't) use quotes in my program amoung other things.
So yeah, if people are interested in me doing that then uh contact me and stuff. I'm occasionally lurking on IRC as Kitten4u. A better way to contact me would be MSN (kitten4u@adelphia.net)
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Russia was Alex.
Snowfire reminded me of the one thing I thought really should have been used against me: since people were so enamored with the Bus Driver possibility, why did no one question Yoshi getting redirected away from acting on me? Yoshi had only claimed watching power, so why would scum think he'd watch me and redirect him elsewhere? This should have dissuaded the Bus Driver idea more than anything else.
bofh talked about not doing his thing in scumchat, but I'll let him address it here too.
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Ahahahahaha. Ah well.
Advice Dogbrit: I gave up because A) One week is too long for even LYLO, and B) Bel-Air's modkill. Not having the buffer lynch just made me go "........ screw it. Let's try this. I have to go with the two I read as the worst right now." This being said we wouldn't have had the buffer lynch anyway, jacket to XBOX = three votes to scum at LYLO = gg anyway.
XBOX: You seriously, totally, completely read like scum to me and I still have no regrets on pushing the lynch. Pushing the role logic so hard in a role madness game made me immediately "...o.O" when I caught on to what you had actually been doing all game, and being willing to simplify it so bad on, say, the -masons-, while trying to figure out arguments against -me-, made me just convinced you were scum with one of them (Astley, since you dropped multiple "He reads town to me" comments) attempting to drop someone close to confirmed town via the actual role actions that had been performed.
I felt like -shit- all game (even day 5) due to being very sick/crummy (though not flu - when my actual ID comes out, it'll be obvious), and mainly put in the effort day 5 because I decided it wasn't fair to Advice Dogbrit to just give in without giving it one full, honest shot. Sorry it didn't go so well. Maybe next time, though I think it's time for another long mafia hiatus for me.
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Just to clarify the C-C-C-C issues from my end, I'd received (and experienced!) issues with the browser itself failing to render text at the end of the page due to the excessive image spam from the massive quotestring near the end of the day - this is why the quotes (and only the quotes) had the images removed. I'll agree that it was quite funny (and excellent strategy, scum-wise) to spam the thread and break up discussion that way, but if it comes to the point where the game becomes -literally- unplayable, it's excessive - and if you can't even read the thread, that counts.
Well played for scum, congrats.
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Combo Breaker's last day play would have been unacceptable in any other mafia game, but this being the Meme Mafia made it a funny and flavor-fitting move, from this spectator's viewpoint.
EDIT: Spamspamspam is not a valid tactic to adopt into other mafia games, that's just being a dick. Just, yeah, flavor is perfect for it here.
This. In a normal game I agree it would be anti-fun, but this was a game of memes INTERNET TROLLS use. Trolling is just flavorful roleplay here. I must admit, Sopko definitely threw himself into it with greater abandon than expected, but can't fault him too much. Wall of derps FTW.
Tues Mar 9 2010 2:17pm [2:17pm] *SnowFire* May have been for the best anyway, woulda been tough for scum to recover from NK N1 + lynch D2.
Tues Mar 9 2010 2:17pm [2:17pm] *SnowFire* Although I will say there is a certain liberation from knowing you're getting lynched Day 3. You can just troll town!
Tues Mar 9 2010 2:17pm [2:17pm] *SpectralSoppy* Like I'm posting Day 3
Tues Mar 9 2010 2:18pm [2:18pm] *SnowFire* You can at least post hilarious pictures of cats or something.
Tues Mar 9 2010 2:18pm [2:18pm] *SpectralSoppy* I think I'll just keep posting C-C-COMBO BREAKER!
Tues Mar 9 2010 2:19pm [2:19pm] *SnowFire* That works, too.
Yes. So blame Snowfire for really giving me the idea >.> <.< >.>
Anyway... so... troll-off, Haruhi vs Combo. Who's with me?
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All Your Base: Was surprised that AYB didn't... well. I won't spoil yet but I figured that once LYLO was announced he'd stir the pot a bit.
I just about damn near lost it when 2G1C posted this:
(there is -no- relevation, no determinant on any end that could change this outside of AYB suddenly spazzing out and admitting he's scum or something bizarre as hell)
Explanation: my role is not solely a Scum GF as I had told my buddies (except Kilga who I later clarified this to). Rather, I am a Scum GF/Delayed Jester Combo. I can win either as Scum, via the usual Scum win conditions, or I can win by myself as a Jester by first: A) Getting to LYLO, B) Getting myself lynched then. It is also possible for me to pull off a double win by winning as Jester, then having a buddy go on and win the game for Scum in the next LYLO.
My initial intent with this role was to pull off the double win. It certainly wouldn't have been hard to get lynched during D5 LYLO, all I really had to do was spaz out a bit and get 2G1C to suspect me instead, as both Astley and XBox 360 suspected me, for however questionable reasons ultimately, they did suspect me.
This plan basically fell apart after D3 when Demote managed to get a lucky scan on Touhou. I was basically expecting Touhou to get lynched very soon, and basically cut my losses and started playing exclusively towards a pure Scum win condition at this point.
(Incidentally, the fact that Touhou managed to do a fakeclaim, pull it off well, and survive to endgame deserves quite a bit of praise. I was seriously impressed by his play in this game and find it slightly aggravating that he could have still won the game if all he had done was sit back and twiddle his thumbs like everyone else in endgame except for 2G1C seemily did.)
I actually started to think about going for the double again yesterday, when 2G1C stated that he thought that Touhou was basically 100% cleared for him, but I decided against it as then Touhou would have to either NK someone or use the Jacket, not using the Jacket would have given him away as the killing power, not NKing someone would drag the game on yet one more day and basically guarantee a certain loss, not to mention both of us were starting to get a bit weary of this game and the amount of free time that I had to devote to this game had been steadily dwindling down into nothingness since about D2, with a momentary spike at D4 because it was the damn weekend.
That's not to say that we still couldn't do it, but the possibility was just vanishingly small and required far more effort than either of us could put in, not to mention that I'd feel bad making Touhou work even more after he managed to keep the Scum game together quite well in the face of the Soppy lynch followed by being tracked by Demote followed by ShikiShana's attack on him (which could have led to his lynch had ShikiShana played differently...my consolences to Rat though for whatever the IRL issues he had were, they had to have been pretty serious for his D4 play to play out like that).
Anyway, I had a lot of fun this game despite not being able to devote as much attention to it as I wanted to, great job Gatewalker on the setup, and good game to everyone. It was a wonderful time~
Oh, and Xanth, thank you for giving me the inspiration for this monstrosity:
(http://molniya.ath.cx:81/advicecube.cgi)
As well as something I'm working on right now, EXTREME TWITTER, aka, interfacing Twitter to Advice Dog. Prinicpally going to feed it political wingnuts and paranoid conspiracy theorist nutjobs for maximal amounts of comedy once it's done :P
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AYB:
...
...
I blame latent psychic abilities as a result of my crippling migraines.
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And yes, that is me. I did recover from the migraines around... Wednesday? But the week's been a crummy one for me. So.
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What did everyone else think of the jacket? I'm trying to weigh it up in my head, and I'm falling towards it being too strong. Scum just had to keep on killing the person who had it (good catch on catching on to that while it was still with Commie).
Or, y'know, you can just not declare that you have the jacket. Demote did not need to fullclaim.
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What did everyone else think of the jacket? I'm trying to weigh it up in my head, and I'm falling towards it being too strong. Scum just had to keep on killing the person who had it (good catch on catching on to that while it was still with Commie).
Or, y'know, you can just not declare that you have the jacket. Demote did not need to fullclaim.
Yeah. Demot claiming pretty much handed scum a gift.
We found out about the jacket Night 2, when I copblocked Soviet. We didn't know about the jacket until then, but we settled on copblocking Soviet since him claiming to get roleblocked would be a null at best compared to the rest of the candidates and we were curious about his role due to Day 1 shenanigans.
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(side note: Russia's No Lynch + mass claim plan would have won the game for town, since we had basically no reasonable fakeclaims on our side)
Going back to address this...not necessarily. Several people in Town had role restrictions that stopped them from fullclaiming. If you claimed similar status, you'd be potentially alright.
(Which is to say, I assume Gate took precautions against mass roleclaim+nolynch, because yes: it is known to break role madness games).
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(http://macrochan.org/images/A/S/AS6TLYWV3O2VLZRR3GSF4Y4YJKJENJ4J.jpeg)
Damn it, I was right about Combo. I thought that's why scum NKed me too.
NKed night 1! I was happy about that. My role sucked anyway, I hate bodyguard. If I can draw a scum kill with it, so much the better.
I protected Advice Dog N1 because his posts were hilarious. My favourite meme player of the game, gw Xanth, props on entertainment (and being a voice of reason too).
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Personally found Sopko Breaker's wall of trolling utterly hilarious, but this is admittedly a spectator's perspective. Admirable commitment to scum douchebaggery there.
Only kinda scanned the topic every now and then. Had the most fun reading Soviet for flavor reasons, was sad when he died. Shouldn't be a surprise that that was Alex. He's good at that sort of thing.
I am terrible at guessing who people are but Tai was pretty obvious even from what little I read. Sorry, man! Even pop-culture references can't camouflage you.
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Cid, you and Snow know me better than most the DL, I'm pretty sure you two don't count. I apparently was missed by almost everyone else so nyeeaaaaaaaah.
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Damn it, I was right about Combo. I thought that's why scum NKed me too.
For the wrong reasons, really. Again, role speculation Day 1 is still stupid. Woulda said it if I was town too, probably in exactly the same way, which would have lead to the exact same argument more than likely. People were more right later on when I was commenting on O9K's posts reading town while supporting Soviet and such.
EDIT: We specifically targeted Dawg Night 1, thinking that Dog would be protected. Amusing it would have gone down that way anyway.
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That's why I just don't see the point of bodyguard; except in the specific circumstance where there is a cop claim, and even then it merely allows the cop one bonus investigation without slowing down scum at all, in the event that scum actually try to hit the cop. Still, it was role madness etc. so no harm done. Amusing game, but I stopped reading Walls of Text after I died naturally.
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KEKEKEKEKE.
I had first post, until I realized I was moron and failed at annony mafia faster than anyone before.
Zerg Rushes. We're the fastest thing in the game.
Anyhow, I'll yield my play was fairly bad. I stand by my opinions to some degree, and honestly though Soviet was just being ballsy scum and getting away with it. The case/game stalled out at a point where I was low on energy, so I instead decided to pursue other cases people were following (hence my requesting abbreviated versions of arguments so I could track them and see if the logic followed to me). I really did think the case on C-C-C-Combo looked good, so I decided to go with it. The sudden swing back to Soviet made me feel uncomfortable. Then I died.
I debated claiming my power early or manipulating votes to try and use it, but overall, unless there was a good power role claimed, I didn't think it was worth it.
Soppy can attest that I was suspicious of Touhou (I can't remember what you said, but one of your points on Day 2 really sat poorly with me and I had just started to think about it) but I completely missed AYB.
I had no browser issues with Soppy's trollfest, and found it utterly hilarious.
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That's why I just don't see the point of bodyguard; except in the specific circumstance where there is a cop claim, and even then it merely allows the cop one bonus investigation without slowing down scum at all, in the event that scum actually try to hit the cop.
Yeah, I'd rather see a variant that, say, doesn't save the person's life, but instead kills the attacker. Or dies, but both saves the person's life and kills the attacker. (Or I guess "all three die" works too--trading 1 scum for 1 town is still worthwhile). As it stands, bodyguard is a highly nerfed doctor variant.
Although granted, in role madness, non-uber roles are fine; if everyone in town had a role on the power level of doc/cop that...would be absurd.
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Roll here. My end D2 rant was because I was absolutely convinced of... I don't even know what. I've been low on sleep the past while, and busy, and didn't come in until after Day 1, at which point I was so far behind that trying to slug through everything was terrible, and... I just played like shit. But that shouldn't surprise anyone here. I suck at mafia, and for some reason, can NOT play like a Townie, or figure out who's scum. The paranoia just gets to me, I guess.
gg scum. I can't say I believed Touhou to be town by any means, but they were certainly my last target of the three.
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Mrf. Sorry, town. I consider this loss pretty much my fault. Without going into details, let's just say many things were demanding my attention and I didn't really feel like doing any of them. (combobreaker's wall of stuff made me not want to play, too, so as a strategy it was a win.)
Can't say it was all depression on other matters though. Going into day four, I knew I looked awful on day 2 due to not being on combo. I was pretty sure Touhou was scum on meta, which annoyed me because I knew nobody would accept it. Then he votes me for... not being on combo, thus meaning any response I have on him will be perceived as an omgus. I already knew he was pretty much unlynchable on his wordswordswords, too.
So I just went 'fuck it I'll post what I think, unabridged and unadorned'. And we all saw how that went.
For what it's worth, I think the meta case on him was mostly worth persuing. His claim looked much like other fakeclaims I've seen in the past.
- He claimed under pressure.
- His claim was an investigative role that could easily not produce anything meaningful.
- He then went on to... not produce anything meaningful! In fact he told blatant lies based on information town already knew.
- I didn't mention this in game, but why would he track Cake, who looked for all the world like a vig at the time and thus would be super obvious as to what he's doing anyway? It's incongruous with Touhou's otherwise smart-seeming play.
- The other two roles that could produce coplike results died before he did, despite him seeming like the towniest player of all of 'em based on words.
- His role was an outright copy of someone else's weirder role in a ROLE MADNESS game.
Yes, sure, all this can actually happen, but as this stuff piles up it's really hard for me to think of someone in this circumstance as town and I would be willing to lynch them on that. I honestly don't know what I could've pushed on Touhou to actually get him lynched though, even on reflection. Pretty much the first thing I did after dying was go to gate, go 'was touhou scum', and headdesk when he said yes. I wish I'd been wrong, honestly, because at least then I wouldn't remain confused over when/when not to use role/meta tells.
Apologies to Kilga for not giving him a run for his money, anyway. I am an unworthy rival. After much training, however, I shall return. >.>
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Speaking of, though, if anyone has any good ideas on TouhouKilga's scumtells that weren't based on role, please tell me so I can lynch him in the future. (A PM is fine too.)
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Just wanted to say I enjoyed reading the game on the flavor side. Day 1 was beautiful. Russia's NoLynch analogy in Day 1 almost made me burst out in laughter while I was at the Singapore National Library. I got a few stares. Zerg and Advice Dog also were fun to read. Touhou's attention to detail was fun too; I pegged him as Kilga pretty early because of that. Of course, the Day 3 image spam was funny from a spectator's perspective.
I wasn't overly interested in the game itself (I'm the kind who likes to read a novel without trying to deduce anything along the way) so no real comments there. The two modkills were unfortunate though, sympathy for the mod in those situations.
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But that shouldn't surprise anyone here. I suck at mafia, and for some reason, can NOT play like a Townie, or figure out who's scum. The paranoia just gets to me, I guess.
What's that, Flay? I couldn't hear you over the sound of your awesome.
And Rat, that argument you didn't post probably would have turned things around quite a bit. Or, at least, I'd think it would, seeing as there was also that discussion on the final day about "Why did you tell Touhou who Cake targeted?!"
That said, still no doubt that Kilga would've found a way through it. Dammit, Touhou! >.<
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Ok, fine. So I can play perfectly fine when I'm Flay. And backed into a corner.
I will say that when the topic streamlined a bit and stopped seeming for all the world like troll-central (aside from the initial CCCC-to-Demo thing there with the Silence poster. Definitely my favourite part of the entire game) I definitely had more fun. Was just very frustrating to come into the game missing, like, 6-8 pages of information that was difficult to read, have my predecessor have an impression on others that is different from my own, as well as ideas that were different than my own, and try to go "I am not scum" when most of the stuff held against me at the time was stuff that I don't know why it was done. (AKA: The lack of my subbing in being announced, while understandable, ended up with GREAT amounts of grief, on my end, and I don't feel that replacements should be handled how it was for me in the future. Hell, I didn't even know my own alignment until a few RL days past when I subbed in)
Still gotta congratulate Touhou for being on the bottom of the Suspicious Persons list. (Though, thinking on it, had we killed AYB, you would've been pretty much hosed, aside from a lot of convincing everyone that either scum set you up, or you didn't think it worthwhile to pass the jacket along. Which I don't think would've gone over well, either, since you being alive would've completely contradicted scum's night actions since they found out about the jacket. Killing 2g1c might've lead you there, since they made it their death wish that I be lynched, but...)
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Well, it was my death wish that you be lynched only if XBOX was scum.
If XBOX was town, I was going to leave a decently detailed explanation of why I thought Touhou/AYB was the remaining scumpair and trust in the masonpair/!cake to eliminate them with my lynch vote.
Of course, then Bel Air dropped, and leaving such a note would have been pointless. So I didn't.
(AYB/Touhou and Astley/XBOX were the obvious schisms, aside from a few zany potentials with XBOX. AYB just didn't make sense with non-Touhou, Astley didn't make sense with non-XBOX based on what was going on in-game.)
EDIT: And yeah, having the announce on your replacement would have made me about 100x with you day 2, as it was in many regards the tone shift I jumped on. But the tone shift is also something I don't articulate well as an explanation so I tried to back it up with what else I had been noticing, which in retrospect was probably just attributable to two-in-one play.
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Was part of that the Box's buddying up and proclaiming my innocence?
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In part, yes; I wouldn't have been convinced by that normally except he was hellbent on lynching the other two options based on theorycruft while clearing you based on it.
The connection didn't seem reciprocated which was another reason why I questioned what was going on there, and part of why I didn't include it as part of my main case. There actually was me considering you/Touhou or you/AYB for a bit but then I thought it through and realized it didn't make sense based on the interactions that had taken place.
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Trust me. I was just as, if not more confused by it than you were.
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Favorite player was Magey/Excal. =)
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Alright, here's the roles and players.
Town first:
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2girls1cup, aka Taitoro
Mafia game? Don't mind if you do~
You are a Town Aligned Scarecrow. You win when all scum are dead, yadda yadda, you know the drill by now.
As a Scarecrow, you may at any point during a day phase simply declare yourself to be a scarecrow. You may no longer vote or be voted for and you are removed from the list of active players, but you may continue to talk as much as you like. This lasts for the rest of the game, it's not an "until end of day" thing. You are not immune to night actions, though, so you can still be killed off if anyone has the bright idea.
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In Soviet Russia, aka Alexchan
In Soviet Russia, mafia plays YOU!
You are a Town Aligned Power Charger. You win when all scum are dead, yadda yadda, you know the drill by now.
As a Power Charger, you have the ability to increase the weight of your vote by posting in IN ALL CAPS AT 30PT FONT!!!! If you do this, that vote counts double. You may only do this once per day.
POSTING RESTRICTION: You must include one of the following in every post: an In Soviet Russia joke, or something written in Russian characters. If you have neither of these elements in any post you make, well then In Soviet Russia, the Mod will vote YOU! (you'll gain one vote against you from the moderator. This vote can hammer you, this vote can make things very sad during lylo, so be careful. However, I'll only put one vote on you a day, breaking it multiple times in one day will not result in multiple votes.)
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HUEG LIKE XBOX, aka Ciato(and later lmm)
17 players? Yeah, that's pretty hueg. Maybe not as HUEG AS XBOX though~
You are a Town Aligned Purveyor of Fine Leather Jackets. You win when all scum are dead, yadda yadda, you know the drill by now.
As a Purveyor of Fine Leather Jackets, you may chose a target during the night phase and exchange power roles with them. This is a permanent exchange, you will now have their power, whatever it may be, and they will now be a Purveyor of Fine Leather Jackets. Yes, I expect this to cause hilarious chaos.
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Demotivational Posters, aka Yoshiken
Mafia...it's kinda like that.
You are a Town Aligned Ninja Trainee. You win when all scum are dead, yadda yadda, you know the drill by now.
As a Ninja Trainee, you gain power from increasing you skills as a ninja. Basically, any time someone accuses you of "ninja-ing" their post, or simply uses "ninja'd" when yours is the post directly before theirs, you increase in rank. At certain ranks, you gain single uses of various night powers. These powers will be revealed to you as you gain them.
POSTING RESTRICTION: You may not claim to be a Ninja, encourage others to say "Ninja'd" in reference to you, or anything along those lines. Basically you can't tell people how to give you power. Unlike normal restrictions, if you break this one, you will not simply gain a vote against you, you will lose your power role. A ninja who is not secret is not a ninja at all.
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Advice Dog, aka Xanth
Play Mafia. Drive yourself insane.
You are a Town Aligned Insomniac. You win when all scum are dead, yadda yadda, you know the drill by now.
As an Insomniac, you may talk during the night phase as much as you like, about anything you want, including the game. The only exception to this is if you get night killed, I will not let you post after you receive that notice.
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Yo Dawg, aka Dread Thomas
Yo dawg, I heard you like roles so I put a role in your town so you can night act while you scumhunt.
You are a Town Aligned Body Double. You win when all scum are dead, yadda yadda, you know the drill by now.
As a Body Double, every night you may choose another player and pimp their ride cause all night actions that would target them to target you instead. This has the unfortunate side effect of carrying over into the next day phase as well, though. If the person you covered for the previous night is lynched, you will die in their place...
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Milhouse Is Not A Meme, Is A Jo'ou Ranbu
You have to wonder why Milhouse wants to be a meme so badly?
You are a Town Aligned Cassandra. You win when all scum are dead, yadda yadda, you know the drill by now.
As Cassandra, you are a Fullcop. You can investigate someone every night and get both role and alignment.
POSTING RESTRICTION: You may never claim to be any sort of investigative role, including Cop, Watcher, Tracker, Rolecop, etc. If you do, you will be immediately modkilled and it will end the day. This is more a "spirit of the law" restriction here, so stuff like "hey guys I'm totally not a cop, I didn't investigate x night one and he's totally not a y" will still get you modkilled. If you want to know if a post will get you killed or not, feel free to PM it to me and ask~
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Over 9000!, aka superaielman
What does the scouter say about the insanity level of this mafia? It's...it's...OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAND!!!!!
You are a Town Aligned Meddling Kid. You win when all scum are dead, yadda yadda, you know the drill by now.
As a Meddling Kid, you may chose a target during the night phase and unmask them, finding out who the player behind the meme really is!
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Rick Astley, aka Excal(and later Magetastic)
You're never going to give town up. You're never going to let them down. You're never going to turn around and desert them.
You are a Town Aligned Mad Journalist. You win when all scum are dead, yadda yadda, you know the drill by now.
As a Mad Journalist, you know that somewhere out there is the greatest scoop of all time, the find of the century. But where? And who? Every night you may search for your scoop, picking a player and determining if it's them or not. If you find your scoop, you and the scoop immediately become Masons. You can not, however, confirm the alignment of your scoop/mason partner.
POSTING RESTRICTION: You have one of these as well! Every post you make must contain a link to something. Doesn't matter what, it can be a link to another post, a classic rickroll or something else entirely. If you make a post without a link, you gain one vote against you from the moderator. This vote can hammer you, this vote can make things very sad during lylo, so be careful. However, I'll only put one vote on you a day, breaking it multiple times in one day will not result in multiple votes.
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Boxxed Air, aka Glen
It's a little known fact that Boxxy is from West Philidelphia, born and raised. On the playground is where she spent most of her days.
You are a Town Aligned Albino Tomato. You win when all scum are dead, yadda yadda, you know the drill by now.
As an Albino Tomato you...um...well, you're not entirely sure what you do. As far as you can figure, it's a whole lot of not much.
(Not in the PM: The Albino Tomato is in fact the mason partner of the Mad Journalist. Unconfirmed Masons, though. Which they have to be, due to the Leather Jackets running around.)
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OH GOT CARTHRAT IS HOT!
OH GOD DL MAFIA IS HOT! ...or well, maybe not, but at least it's a fun enough time waster.
You are a Town Aligned Giant Robot. You win when all scum are dead, yadda yadda, you know the drill by now.
As a Giant Robot, you are exceptionally hard to kill. In order to lynch you, it takes one additional vote to secure the hammer, though you can still be plurality lynched at deadline if you have at least 2 votes more then the runner up. If you are one vote ahead it will be considered a tie and if you are tied, they will be the vote leader. Also, any attempts at night killing you have a 50% chance to fail. I'll let you choose which bot you want to trust that fate to should it come up~
POSTING RESTRICTION: You have to make up ridiculous anime style attack names for your votes. Any command with ## in front of it you type will be taken as a vote, so have fun with it. If you ever vote with just plain old ordinary ##Vote then you gain one vote against you from the moderator. This vote can hammer you, this vote can make things very sad during lylo, so be careful. However, I'll only put one vote on you a day, breaking it multiple times in one day will not result in multiple votes. If you end a day by hammering someone and breaking your restriction, the vote against you will count for the following day.
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AndrewRogue, aka Zerg Rusk(kekekekekeke)
Mafia rush kekekekekekekeke~
You are a Town Aligned Skindancer. You win when all scum are dead, yadda yadda, you know the drill by now.
As a Skindancer, you gain power by killing people and wearing their skin as a jacket. Pleasant, huh? If you are ever the hammering vote that kills someone, you may use whatever power role they possessed that night(or the following day if it's a day role). You only get it for that one night/day, though. No keeping the powers for the whole game.
Also, the REALLY FUCKING CREEPY nature of your powers makes you a Miller. You will return as Scum to any cop investigation.
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And now for Scum
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TOUHOU HIJACK LOL!, aka Kilgamyon
It's kinda funny that you'd play mafia, pick a Touhou meme and wind up scum. I swear I didn't do it on purpose. I also swear the role was random. Blame Hatbot, not me. <_<
You are a Scum Aligned Kappa Fanthing~. You win when all townies are dead, yadda yadda, you know the drill by now.
As a Kappa Fanthing~, you may pick one target during the night and spin~ them so that any actions they take effect someone of your choosing instead of who they originally intended. You may not use this ability and perform the nightkill in the same night.
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lolcat, aka QuietRain
You can haz mafia? Yes, you can haz!
You are a Scum Aligned Taboo Artist. You win when all townies are dead, yadda yadda, you know the drill by now.
As a Taboo Artist, you can choose someone every night and give them a posting restriction. You may use each of the following restrictions once:
Keyboard Thiefery: Pick a letter, the target may not use this letter the following day. This cannot stop someone from voting, mind you.
Talk Like A Frog Day: Make the target speak in Ye Olde Faux English, with things like "thee, thou, ye, thy, thine" etc, instead of "you, your, you're" and the like.
13375p34k: Make the target include at least one word of "leetspeak" in every sentence they type.
Make Up Your Own!: Make up your own post restriction, subject to approval.
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COMBO BREAKER, aka Sopko
T-T-T-TOWNIE BREAKER!!!!
You are a Scum Aligned Combo Number 5. You win when all townies are dead, yadda yadda, you know the drill by now.
As a Combo Number 5, you function as both a Rolecop and Roleblocker all rolled into one. You target someone, block them from acting and find out what their role might be at the same time. You may not use this role and perform the nightkill on the same night.
POSTING RESTRICTION: As a combo breaker, you are not allowed to perform combos! You may not make two consecutive posts without someone else in between. If you break this restriction, you get an immediate vote on you from the mod. This can hammer you, and it can make for a very sad lylo, so be careful. However, you can only get one vote for this on you per day. Multiple infractions will not result in multiple votes.
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All Your Base, are belong to Alice/bofh
All this role are belong to you. You have no chance to survive, make your time. Ha ha ha ha ha.
You are a Scum Aligned Roflcoptr. You win when all townies are dead, yadda yadda, you know the drill by now.
As a Roflcoptr, you have the role of Godfather, cop investigations will return you as town.
HOWEVER, you are not entirely scum aligned.
You are also a delayed Jester, with an additional way to win the game. If you make it to Lylo and get yourself lynched there, you win a solo victory. Town and scum can fight over second place. It's conceivable for you to win twice, both with your solo victory and with a remaining scum managing to win through lylo. If you pull that off, you have my sincere admiration, sir. This is a hard role, good luck.
The other scum do not know of your Jester role. They only know that you are a scumbuddy.
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And finally, our third party.
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The Cake Is A Like, aka Roukanken
Look at me still typing while there's modding to do~
Your role is 3rd Party Landshark. You are a Survivor, you win the game if you are still alive at the end of the game, be it a town or scum victory.
As a Landshark, you have the ability to target another player every night and they will be sent the following message: "Someone has sent you a candygram*, do you accept it?" (*or telegram, or flowers, or something else. You can pick what each time)
If they accept, they will be nightkilled as you eat them as soon as they open their door~
If they do not accept, nothing happens.
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(Though, thinking on it, had we killed AYB, you would've been pretty much hosed, aside from a lot of convincing everyone that either scum set you up, or you didn't think it worthwhile to pass the jacket along. Which I don't think would've gone over well, either, since you being alive would've completely contradicted scum's night actions since they found out about the jacket. Killing 2g1c might've lead you there, since they made it their death wish that I be lynched, but...)
I was fully prepared to throw in the towel if bofh got lynched before LYLO, because I knew I mathematically couldn't keep the lies coming for long enough, so yes, there was some precarious dancing there for a while. Had he been lynched in LYLO the plan was to claim I Jacketed you and found the redirectional role and hope whoever was still alive took my side.
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Random aside: This is why you lynch all Nitoris. Nitoris are always scum.
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Yo Dawg, aka Dread Thomas
Yo dawg, I heard you like roles so I put a role in your town so you can night act while you scumhunt.
You are a Town Aligned Body Double. You win when all scum are dead, yadda yadda, you know the drill by now.
As a Body Double, every night you may choose another player and pimp their ride cause all night actions that would target them to target you instead. This has the unfortunate side effect of carrying over into the next day phase as well, though. If the person you covered for the previous night is lynched, you will die in their place...
Ooh, okay, this is more powerful than the basic bodyguard role I thought it was.
Also, the Touhou ability is different from how it was speculated in-game. Which is to say, not a bus driver but someone who modifies an individual's targets.
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Erm, Met? It was speculated that if Touhou was scum, he was a hijacker. It was assumed to be a bus driver because the going suspicion (at least, when I was playing) was that Touhou was not scum. So good game Touhou.
As for the rest, yeah, I totally dropped out after my big AYB is scum post. Few different reasons for this, the largest one being I discovered that I couldn't make myself care enough to a) log into annonyaccount and b) hunt down something to link to (I'm more of a quoting kind of guy, so that posting restriction always kind of annoyed me. Shoulda just accepted that I was going to suck up the penalty a lot and leave it at that). Main reason I came back in for Day 3 was because I knew Mage was getting pretty pissed off at the game, and figured it'd be better to have swapping players than to have him playing while horribly pissed off at the game itself.
I suppose I could actually check and see what happened after Shiki's breakdown. But to be honest, I mostly just signed up in spite of hating the theme because hey, Mafia game I can play in while not working 12 hour shifts! Didn't work out so hot. >_> Hated reading most of the flavour when I was playing, and given the new stuff will involve no Advice Dog, I suspect checking out the final days will be no more pleasant.
On a side, note, good job Touhou. The only reason I wasn't clearing XBox was because I was gutchecking you as town over him. And AYB, I probably still can't give you a good reason as to why I knew you were scum, but I totally knew you were scum!
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I will take, as my own personal victory, pegging Roucake as third party since day 2, even if it was never relevant.
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Random aside: This is why you lynch all Nitoris. Nitoris are always scum.
I kind of figured Touhou was scum, but was third party turned scum or town turned scum since after one night began all the Nitori pic spam. At least you had another 4000 more pics if the game lasted longer
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Question: What the hell is Oh My God Shiki is Hot? I haven't seen any reference to this meme anywhere after going to look up what all of them meant.
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The meme is supposed to be "OH GOD SHANA IS HOT". I have no idea how the hell Shiki got there, especially since the avatar is clearly one of Shana (from Shakugan no Shana, not Legend of Dragoon obviously).
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Yeah, looking for either variation didn't really help me much.
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It's something I remembered seeing quite frequently on 4chan a while back, so it seemed like a meme to me.
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Saw with your own eyes?!
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I've run into reference to it on TV Tropes, but not sure where it came from originally.
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It was an /a/ meme back in the day, when Shakugan no Shana was still relatively new. Not sure if they still use it. It's largely of the same ilk as "Tama-nee is a healthy girl", though I know that one is still used on occasion.