The RPG Duelling League
RPG Debate => RPGDL Discussion => Topic started by: superaielman on March 15, 2008, 06:14:46 AM
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Godlike:
Jade (BoF1) vs Yuna (FFX)
Jenna Angel (DDS) vs Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs)
Heavy:
Gades (Lufias) vs Yuber (Suikos)
Surt (VP1) vs Kharg (AtL4)
Middle:
Peter (SF2) vs Lute (FE8)
Sara (BoF1) vs Canas (FE7)
Light:
Mia Ausa (Lunar:SSSC) vs Ricardo Gomez (SH3)
Lowen (FE7) vs Lani (FF9)
Bonus: Zexen Knights vs Temple Knights
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Godlike:
Jade (BoF1) vs Yuna (FFX) - Rub hits before Holy kills.
Jenna Angel (DDS) vs Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs) - Yuri struggles against Debilitate + Bhairava, and even if he does survive that he gets shut down by the Orbs afterwards.
Heavy:
Gades (Lufias) vs Yuber (Suikos) - Curse murders the PC form.
Surt (VP1) vs Kharg (AtL4)
Middle:
Peter (SF2) vs Lute (FE8) - Splat.
Sara (BoF1) vs Canas (FE7) - This match is sad. 10 Nosferatus isn't enough? Canas gets butchered if he runs out of healing.
Light:
Mia Ausa (Lunar:SSSC) vs Ricardo Gomez (SH3)
Lowen (FE7) vs Lani (FF9) - Lani beats FE crap. Barely.
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Godlike:
Jade (BoF1) vs Yuna (FFX)- Complete slaughter in every way. Good luck winning this with your physical Jade.
Jenna Angel (DDS) vs Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs)- See last week. Yuri may be able to outlast Jenna.
Heavy:
Gades (Lufias) vs Yuber (Suikos)- Completely overpowers. Gades is Godlike damn it.
Surt (VP1) vs Kharg (AtL4)- Oh goddamnit the spirit Banadana. That has a good argument to be legal. And that would utterly doom Surt.
Middle:
Peter (SF2) vs Lute (FE8)- Fire's out and Lute's weighed down too much to really double anything else dangerous.
Sara (BoF1) vs Canas (FE7)- Don't think I allow Canas the dark books, so stat topic time.
Light:
Mia Ausa (Lunar:SSSC) vs Ricardo Gomez (SH3)- I'll bite on Regen hype. Reducing her best damage helps some as well.
Lowen (FE7) vs Lani (FF9)
Bonus: Temple Knights. Rofel and Vormav alone give the team massive headaches- both are evasive and have equip breaks. Throwing in some support just makes it a slaughter.
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Middle:
Peter (SF2) vs Lute (FE8)
Halves fire, tanks everything else with HP and not getting doubled.
Light:
Mia Ausa (Lunar:SSSC) vs Ricardo Gomez (SH3)
Ricardo doublechamp hype? Oh hell yes.
Lowen (FE7) vs Lani (FF9)
It's Lani.
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Godlike:
Jade (BoF1) vs Yuna (FFX)- Yuna
Jenna Angel (DDS) vs Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs)- Jenna. Bhairava kills easily enough. SH defense never have enough impact really. Sadness. Really wanted Yuna-spoiler Belial to win too.
Heavy:
Gades (Lufias) vs Yuber (Suikos)- Gades
Surt (VP1) vs Kharg (AtL4)- Interesting. Surt lives through a Big Owl to me and has heal, so Kharg has to heal lock...but Kharg also nulls all Fire/Holy damage. Tentative Kharg vote.
Middle:
Peter (SF2) vs Lute (FE8)- Peter. The Fire res comes in handy for two matches. Wow.
Sara (BoF1) vs Canas (FE7)- Canas. Nosferatu and such.
Light:
Mia Ausa (Lunar:SSSC) vs Ricardo Gomez (SH3)- Ricardo. Well, Fire res and Ice weakness mostly cancel...just, if he gets to go first, he sets up things that she doesn't like. If she goes first, she loses damage, and he can chip and then wait until a double act.
Lowen (FE7) vs Lani (FF9)- Lani smash.
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Dargggggggggggggggggggg. I can't vote on any of these >:(
But go Kharg. Cause he's Kharg. ;D
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Godlike:
Jade (BoF1) vs Yuna (FFX)
Jenna Angel (DDS) vs Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs)
Heavy:
Gades (Lufias) vs Yuber (Suikos)
Surt (VP1) vs Kharg (AtL4)
Middle:
Peter (SF2) vs Lute (FE8)
Sara (BoF1) vs Canas (FE7)
Light:
Mia Ausa (Lunar:SSSC) vs Ricardo Gomez (SH3) - It's Mia's high magic defense, magic halving, Ice Wall and ability to gain fire resistance if needed vs. Ricardo's all-round laughably bad damage. If that wasn't enough. Ricardo, who's fire innate, is up against someone with ice/water damage. Slaughter? Splat!
Lowen (FE7) vs Lani (FF9) - Lani
Bonus: Zexen Knights vs Temple Knights
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Godlike:
Jade (BoF1) vs Yuna (FFX)- Jade. Dependant on Lightning damage and slightly scrubby ID. Yuna. Lightning immune, Aeons are status immune. OBVIOUS.
Jenna Angel (DDS) vs Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs)- I think Yuri can win this, as I view stat buffers to overwrite stat busts in SH2. Which means he doubles all the time, but his second turn pretty much requires him to use For Tomorrow or die next turn. Sooner or later, he's going to run out of MP, and there's no real time to use his MP draining when he has to drain HP to survive.
Heavy:
Gades (Lufias) vs Yuber (Suikos)- Me still don't think Yuber is a good Heavy at all.
Surt (VP1) vs Kharg (AtL4)- Big Owl, good damage and elemental immunity after that. Slowly, but surely.
Light:
Mia Ausa (Lunar:SSSC) vs Ricardo Gomez (SH3)- Doh. Completely forgot about Ice Wall/Shell. I don't view Ricardo as super speedy or anything, but I kinda view Mia as slowish, so a speed boost gets him there for me.
Lowen (FE7) vs Lani (FF9)- Lani vs. a competent Light?
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Mia Ausa (Lunar:SSSC) vs Ricardo Gomez (SH3)- Ricardo under Gale is at LEAST tripling, maybe quadrupling Mia, with bad defenses. Even if she resists fire, I think Ricardo's subpar physicals can do her in before she takes him out.
That's what Ice Wall is there to keep from happening.
Tripling? Quadrupling??! From a 30% boost!? Just how quick do you see him as..?
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Godlike:
Jade (BoF1) vs Yuna (FFX): Oh, lord... BoltX shreds most of the Aeons, only Ixion can avoid that and a crit physical eventually puts him down. He might be able to fight through the lot of them... but he'll be badly hurt, and REFLECT means he can't really do much to human Yuna. What does Jade have to get around that, Chill? Yeah.
Jenna Angel (DDS) vs Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs): SH defense matters plenty, it's just that there are practically no differences in the base values. Throw in Yuri's big buffs though and he's like cutting damage in half. He can control exactly when Bhairava happens, so by making sure he's heathy and fully buffed when it does... he lives.
Free form shifting between the various elements lets Yuri2 own the orb form.
Heavy:
Gades (Lufias) vs Yuber (Suikos)
Surt (VP1) vs Kharg (AtL4)
Middle:
Sara (BoF1) vs Canas (FE7): Canas had horrible luck. He's going to get critted real soon, and that destroys him, especially since I see the entire DL doubling Nosferatu Canas.
Light:
Mia Ausa (Lunar:SSSC) vs Ricardo Gomez (SH3): Kneejerk is that Ice shell allows Mia to run Ricardo out of SP. Not sure though.
Lowen (FE7) vs Lani (FF9)
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Godlike:
Jade (BoF1) vs Yuna (FFX): Even without Aeons, Yuna takes this. Speed advantage, too much healing, Auto Life, hellish magic defense and evade...yeah. With Aeons the fight becomes completely trivial.
Jenna Angel (DDS) vs Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs): Leaning Jenna at the moment.
Heavy:
Gades (Lufias) vs Yuber (Suikos): L1 Gades gets the time to build up and smite Yuber.
Surt (VP1) vs Kharg (AtL4): Kharg practically nulls Fire and Light, which kills like all of Surt's damage right there. So he can probably take it from here. Mind, without Big Owl, I'm thinking Kharg runs out of resources due to usual AtL4 resource issues, but...yeah, I allow it.
Middle:
Peter (SF2) vs Lute (FE8): Fire resist doesn't do jack here since Thunder is almost as strong (and I think that's her default spell anyway, since Elfire is a bit heavy.) Anyway, thinking she goes first, 3HKOs Peter, and he doesn't OHKO in return, AND he has to deal with evasion.
Sara (BoF1) vs Canas (FE7): Might be overrating Nosferatu's Healing or Canas' defense, but...Sara attacks, Canas counters with Nosferatu; doubles are offset by counters, so its an even split in turns and he could pull it out that way.
Light:
Mia Ausa (Lunar:SSSC) vs Ricardo Gomez (SH3): Dragon Rod (Fire Resist) + Ice Shell (Physical defense buffing) kills all of Ricardo's damage, she can probably outslug him after that.
Lowen (FE7) vs Lani (FF9): Not even close.
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Lute does 22 damage to 25 average, Meep. That's not 3HKOing Peter's 98 HP to 72 average, no matter how anyone scales FE damage.
Lute's own evade is about 29% with Thunder, which really shouldn't matter when she's being 2HKO'd. She has to double here to win, and it's highly unlike she can do it while weighed down by Thunder.
Peter (SF2) vs Lute (FE8): So glad I mathed this out late Thursday evening.
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Godlike:
Jade (BoF1) vs Yuna (FFX) - Yuna.
Heavy:
Gades (Lufias) vs Yuber (Suikos) - This match vaguely fails. Yuber's evasion makes Gades have serious issues connecting hits, which... quite frankly, is enough. Yuber isn't great, but neither is Gades2.
Middle:
Peter (SF2) vs Lute (FE8) - 2HKOs, isn't 3HKOed with that HP. That's that, really.
Sara (BoF1) vs Canas (FE7) - Nosferatu. Crit hype slightly baffles me, even if Canas' luck fails.
Light:
Lowen (FE7) vs Lani (FF9) - Lani.
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Godlike:
Jade (BoF1) vs Yuna (FFX) - Yuna is a whore.
Jenna Angel (DDS) vs Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs) --I'm actually unsure here. Yuri has the capability to buff up to typical curvebreaking stats with Seraph->For Tomorrow, or whichever his psycho buff is--though Bhairava is also in a league of its own. It's a hard decision, really.
Heavy:
Gades (Lufias) vs Yuber (Suikos) - I have a bit more respect for Gades in the first (real) fight you have against him than for any of Yuber's forms I've seen so far.
Bonus: Zexen Knights vs Temple Knights Divine Knights are the very BANE of Suikoden meleers. Particularly ones with Hellcry Punch.
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Godlike:
Jade (BoF1) vs Yuna (FFX) -Yuna wins without Aeons. LOL at Jade being allowed to Spam Rub. Misses first rub, probably 2nd also. Rub is 1/32? So I think I'd only allow it every 16 hits. Yuna is faster, evades enough to only heal every 7-8 turns, and holies the rest of the time. (With Aeons she summons Ixion and laughs.)
Heavy:
Gades (Lufias) vs Yuber (Suikos) - 3HKOs after a miss... enough?
Middle:
Sara (BoF1) vs Canas (FE7) - Para healing works against a durable beast with no damage.
Light:
Lowen (FE7) vs Lani (FF9) - Ha ha, doubles and 2HKOs, what do you think.
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Some Ricardo vs Mia Analysis
Fated Day's End does the equivalent of 31 Lunar Damage to Mia (After considering her Mdef and Fire halving). This means it 7HKOs. I'm not considering recharge times except for doubles. This balances out because recharge times=lower damage average anyways, and I believe Ricardo did have some magic damage with no recahrge time.
Mia has to halve Wind for her to have any chance, since Ricardo does have some Wind magic that will likely 5HKO her at worst otherwise, making their absolutely no way for her to win under any argument I think. I assumed she did.
Wind Cane Mia does 28.2% to Ricardo, and I assumed 118.4% speed. Mia definetely needs the Wind Cane, because otherwise Ricardo is getting in a free shot of his 5HKO physical, and he'll be like 20% naturally faster, and getting a lot of doubles with Gale. If any of the elemental resists are tied to the Dragon Rod (Wind or Fire resists that is), then she'll lose no matter what staff she equips. She effectively does 18.2% to him a turn with Regen in, and then he can go and heal another 35% (Basically two of her turns after Regen is factored in) and he'll get doubles, so if he 5HKOs her, it's an easy smashing.
Mia 1: Ice Shell
Ricardo 1: Arc Gale (Just for really killing the sake of Mia’s doubles, He’s at 140% speed about for 5 turns, but this has a little lag this turn I think. We’ll say the lag pushes makes his speed equal to hers this turn. This lasts until his 6th turn)
Mia 2: Attack (Ricardo takes 29.2%)
Ricardo 2: Fated End’s Day (Hit 1) (Ric at 19.2%)
Ricardo 3: Fated End’s Day (Hit 2) (Ric at 9.2%) (Normal speed surpassing since Ricardo is about 20% faster. If you see Mia at as higher SD, this will still happen, just later on.)
Mia 3: Attack (Ricardo at 37.4%)
Ricardo 4: Fated End’s Day (Hit 3) (Ric at 27.4%)
Mia 4: Attack (Ricardo at 55.6)
Ricardo 5: Fated End’s Day (Hit 4) (Ric at 45.6%)
Mia 5: Attack (Ricardo at 73.8)
Ricardo 6: Arc Gale (Ricardo at 63.8)
Mia 6: Attack (Ricardo at 92)
Ricardo 7: Heal (Ricardo at 48)- Just for fun, I’m not going to assume Ricardo doubles Mia ever. This is balance out people who might see her at a higher speed, and still have him win.
Mia 7: Attack (Ricardo at 76.2)
Ricardo 8: Fated End’s Day (Hit 5) (Ricardo at 66.2)
Mia 8: Attack (Ricardo at 94.4)
Ricardo 9: Double Attack: Fated Day's End+Any Other of His Spells. Hits 6 and 7, Mia is dead.
So yeah, Ricardo does it within his SP alloted time, and and even recharge time likely couldn't change this enough to have an effect considering that he still would have 6-7 more turns.
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I lied, sue me. I actually CAN vote on a match. I just recalled who Jade was.
Jade (BoF1) vs Yuna (FFX) - Ixion would more than likely rape Jade.
Probably with that giant horn of his. Ouch, that'll hurt the next morning.
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Lowen (FE7) vs Lani (FF9): Lani vs. mediocre light. Ouch.
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Godlike:
Jade (BoF1) vs Yuna (FFX) - Another week of Yuna, another week of mindlessly bolding her name.
Jenna Angel (DDS) vs Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs) - Whatever~
Middle:
Sara (BoF1) vs Canas (FE7)
Light:
Mia Ausa (Lunar:SSSC) vs Ricardo Gomez (SH3)
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Jenna Angel (DDS) vs Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs): SH defense matters plenty, it's just that there are practically no differences in the base values. Throw in Yuri's big buffs though and he's like cutting damage in half. He can control exactly when Bhairava happens, so by making sure he's heathy and fully buffed when it does... he lives.
Well, if you switch his defense effect from subtractive to division it might take a difference. But literally...cutting 160 SH damage off like 1.6 PC HP damage attack isn't all that great. If Yuri wants to stall in order to perfect everything, Jenna is going to buff her attack and make Bhairava even more powerful. Or...use Vanity multiple times, and Yuri doesn't really have any innate status resist. Form 3 would likely get Yuri 2 on Charm eventually.
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Godlike:
Jade (BoF1) vs Yuna (FFX) - Yuna and the Aeon Parade!
Jenna Angel (DDS) vs Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs) - Jenna outslugs
Heavy:
Gades (Lufias) vs Yuber (Suikos) - Gades
Surt (VP1) vs Kharg (AtL4) - Hmm... Kharg seems to take this.
Middle:
Peter (SF2) vs Lute (FE8) - Peter, despite all sanity.
Sara (BoF1) vs Canas (FE7) - Sara respect is high today.
Light:
Mia Ausa (Lunar:SSSC) vs Ricardo Gomez (SH3) - Hard to argue Dhyer's match analysis. Would Mia's high-level Ice magic be enough to edge out fire-innate Ricardo here? I'll research this one more later.
Lowen (FE7) vs Lani (FF9) - Lani eats puny FE scrubs for breakfast like a delicious bowl of Cheerios.
-Djinn
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Ryogo, your fondness for Kharg, and your unnatural perkiness, offends me.
Jade (BoF1) vs Yuna (FFX) - Cheap, cheap, cheap.
Jenna Angel (DDS) vs Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs)
Heavy:
Gades (Lufias) vs Yuber (Suikos)
Surt (VP1) vs Kharg (AtL4) - ...I'm the only one who nommed Kharg, and he makes it this far. I'm torn between a perverse pride, and a desire to slit my wrists in shame.
Middle:
Peter (SF2) vs Lute (FE8)
Sara (BoF1) vs Canas (FE7)
Light:
Mia Ausa (Lunar:SSSC) vs Ricardo Gomez (SH3) -
Lowen (FE7) vs Lani (FF9) - ...I honestly have no idea who the hell Lani is. Just a gut anti-FE Light check.
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Ryogo, your fondness for Kharg, and your unnatural perkiness, offends me.
Sorry :P
Its not that I like Kharg so much, It's that I liked Twilight of the Spirits back when I played it for the first time. Bebedora was always my favourite in the game.
Either way, I still wanna see him win.
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Sorry :P
Its not that I like Kharg so much, It's that I liked Twilight of the Spirits back when I played it for the first time. Bebedora was always my favourite in the game.
Either way, I still wanna see him win.
Alright, that's fine.
I'm fond of AtL4 myself, but I hate most of the the human cast (Can't stand unjustified racism.). Tatjana and Darkham are the only exceptions.
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Mia Ausa (Lunar:SSSC) vs Ricardo Gomez (SH3) - Hard to argue Dhyer's match analysis. Would Mia's high-level Ice magic be enough to edge out fire-innate Ricardo here? I'll research this one more later.
The damage I used was assuming Mia's best Ice spell.
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Jade (BoF1) vs Yuna (FFX) - Yuna, obviously.
Jenna Angel (DDS) vs Yuri Volte Hyuga (SHs) - Jenna, don't see Yuri tanking anything better than Wren.
Heavy:
Gades (Lufias) vs Yuber (Suikos) - L2 Gades lol. Though isn't Yuber's evade pretty damn good to deal with the L1 form, or does he ignore evade or something? Whatever.
Surt (VP1) vs Kharg (AtL4)
Middle:
Peter (SF2) vs Lute (FE8) - Peter, see hinode.
Sara (BoF1) vs Canas (FE7) - Sara. Raising her crit rate by 4 is actually kinda bad, and I'm not 100% sure that he can counter a physical that explicitly ignores counters in-game. Unsure, but on average, feels like her match.
Light:
Mia Ausa (Lunar:SSSC) vs Ricardo Gomez (SH3) - Ricardo, see Dhyer
Lowen (FE7) vs Lani (FF9) - Lani in a match I spent hours debating.
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Gades? No clue if he ignores evade, but he's as pretty awesome tank all around and way outclasses Yuber on every front but evade. Shouldn't even be close to enough, especially when he'll be getting doubles.
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Mmmm, got a file with a highish level wind CM Super? Testing go. End game Gades should use Devestation I believe.
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He was talking about Lufia 1 Gades. There aren't any capsule monsters in that game.
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Ahh I misinterpretted that as "Haha I have to vote on Lufia 2 Gades. On the off chance did he avoid evasion" as opposed to "AHah L2 Gades hype" Edit - Clearly because I cannot read.
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I am back...........yeha ;D
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Welcome back.
NOTE TO ALL VOTERS: Please check here http://www.rpgdl.com/votecheck.php to see if your vote went though. We've had a couple of votes vanish this week. Thanks!
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Thanks super ;D Its been awhile since the Bobbincranbud days. I just got out of jail, got done doing a one year bid then rehab. Some of you might remember me as that Cloud Freak that everybody hated back in the day. I'm still a Cloud freak but I'm not biased anymore, I vote fairly.
Jade vs. Yuna
Jenna vs. Yuri- She just flat out endures longer.
Gades vs. Yuber- I have respect for his boss form, his insane evasion makes up for his very lacking durability. Yuber's boss form is definitely a low godlike.
Surt vs. Kharg