The RPG Duelling League
RPG Debate => Tournaments => Topic started by: Cmdr_King on June 16, 2014, 08:21:20 AM
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Godlike
Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) vs Citan Uzuki (Xenogears)
Elc (Arc the Lad II) vs Ghaleon (Lunar: Silver Star)
Rika (Phantasy Star IV) vs Tir McDohl (Suikoden Series)
Ted (Suikoden IV) vs Bat (Digital Devil Saga)
Heavy
Demi (Phantasy Star IV: The End of the Millenium) vs Rose (Legend of Dragoon)
Emelia(SaGa Frontier) vs Alex (Lunar: Silver Star)
Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves the World) vs Mesarthim (SaGa Frontier)
Lawfer (Valkyrie Profile) vs Mithos Yggdrasil (Tales of Symphonia)
Middle
Etna (Disgaea Series) vs Brad Evans (Wild ARMs 2)
Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Brozong (Pokémon)
Yosuke Hanamura (Persona 4) vs Kanji Tatsumi (Persona 4)
Anastasia Romanov (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Light
Mist (Fire Emblem Series) vs Serra (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)
Zozma (SaGa Frontier) vs Draggy (Chrono Cross)
Rufus Shinra (Final Fantasy VII) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3)
Archer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Innes (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones)
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Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) vs Citan Uzuki (Xenogears) - I'm kinda kneejerking here, but even though Citan post-Senki is -faster- than her at her maximum speed range, his healing doesn't even really outpace a single casting of her offense and he has problems making damage stick. If I allow her summons, this gets simply ugly.
Elc (Arc the Lad II) vs Ghaleon (Lunar: Silver Star) - Elc has serious issues making damage stick and he can't spend a -single- turn outside Invincible.
Rika (Phantasy Star IV) vs Tir McDohl (Suikoden Series) - SDs say Rika is faster by a healthy margin, so.
Ted (Suikoden IV) vs Bat (Digital Devil Saga) - A mage who OHKOs Bat without Earth/Wind damage. This is pretty amazing.
Demi (Phantasy Star IV: The End of the Millenium) vs Rose (Legend of Dragoon) - I'm really not sure what the hell can Rose do here, with or without starting SP: Demi is faster, has an easy 2HKO pre-Dragoon, fears no status (even if you see her being vulnerable to fear, she simply casts Medic Power to heal if off. I don't) nor offense Rose can muster due to Barrier and copious healing. Given no starting SP to me, this is a slaughter.
Emelia (SaGa Frontier) vs Alex (Lunar: Silver Star) - 3-2s, may 2HKO, certainly 3HKOs and isn't getting OHKOed back.
Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves the World) vs Mesarthim (SaGa Frontier) - EDIT: BIZARRELY, I think this is right. Cthulhu's preferred build has -absolutely no MT I'd consider- against HideRune and Mesarthim is faster by an actually not entirely insignificant margin. So, HideRune, troll for doubles and Cockatrice until it lands. If you see people who fight Cthulhu PCs getting damage boosts as the fights progress, she can pull off a similar stunt, just waiting until she lands in OHKO la-la land.
Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Bronzong (Pokémon) - EDIT: Hm. Heal Block is -really- problematic for Yulie here and Gyro Ball actually spoils the Haste game to a degree. Granted, Yulie needs to block at least Sleep here, which puts her already shaky stats into an awful position (blocking both Confuse and Sleep is ideal, but dear god this makes her even -worse-). So, the matter is whether a below average (since Yulie's kinda slow at base) Gyro Ball can outpace Yulie before Heal Block runs out, and I'm thinking "well sure". It happens. Alternatively, he could forsake Gyro Ball and go for Payback (which certainly would 3HKO statusblocking Yulie), though holy crap the turnsplit gets kinda crazy here.
Yosuke Hanamura (Persona 4) vs Kanji Tatsumi (Persona 4) - Dear god, Diarama+Sukukaja takes care of Kanji.
Anastasia Romanov (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening) - Miriel in Middle? Dear god. She even 2HKOs Anastasia, but I think the odds of a match-ending status kicking in are a bit too high, given how she fears 3/4 of them (Silence, Petrify and Paralysis are all checkmates. Ana dies if she lands poison, but them's the breaks).
Mist (Fire Emblem Series) vs Serra (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword) - Okay. Mist9 3HKOs and gets countered without being able to counter herself. Serra, meanwhile, 4HKOs with Shine and shouldn't be doubled by Mist... and yeah, that's likely enough, especially since, even weighed down further, she still has some decent evade.
Zozma (SaGa Frontier) vs Draggy (Chrono Cross) - I think I -do- see GlassShield as being owned by multiple hits, see my thoughts on Zhuzhen vs. Ildon.
Rufus Shinra (Final Fantasy VII) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3) - luuuuuuuuuuulz
Archer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Innes (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones) - EDIT: ARROW GUARD
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Godlike
Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) vs Citan Uzuki (Xenogears)- Abstain till I research Katrina.
Elc (Arc the Lad II) vs Ghaleon (Lunar: Silver Star)- Chaos Shield gives Elc fits.
Rika (Phantasy Star IV) vs Tir McDohl (Suikoden Series)-More kneejerk respect.
Ted (Suikoden IV) vs Bat (Digital Devil Saga)- Doesn't have earth damage.
Heavy
Demi (Phantasy Star IV: The End of the Millenium) vs Rose (Legend of Dragoon)- Rose isn't really a heavy, especially if she can't ID.
Emelia(SaGa Frontier) vs Alex (Lunar: Silver Star)- Kneejerk.
Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves the World) vs Mesarthim (SaGa Frontier)
Middle
Etna (Disgaea Series) vs Brad Evans (Wild ARMs 2)- Brad can handle a vanilla slugger just fine.
Yosuke Hanamura (Persona 4) vs Kanji Tatsumi (Persona 4)- Evasion/healing/confuse should do it's thing here.
Light
Mist (Fire Emblem Series) vs Serra (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)- Also kneejerk.
Zozma (SaGa Frontier) vs Draggy (Chrono Cross)- Should be able to blitz before Zozma's status does anything.
Rufus Shinra (Final Fantasy VII) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3)
Archer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Innes (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones)- Innes gets no counters here. Archer attacks at point blank range (He can do that with crossbows). Otherwise, arrow guard+shield owns Innes so badly.
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Ted (Suikoden IV) vs Bat (Digital Devil Saga)- Doesn't have earth damage.
Entirely irrelevant when Bat's going last (he -immunes- Earth before Guard, even!), and Bat HP certainly isn't so good that even his mdef can let him survive a S4 Judgment (far in the opposite direction, in fact. It's even partially ITD!). Bat's only immune to other elements post-Guard.
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Godlike
Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) vs Citan Uzuki (Xenogears) - welp
Elc (Arc the Lad II) vs Ghaleon (Lunar: Silver Star) - *welp*
Rika (Phantasy Star IV) vs Tir McDohl (Suikoden Series) - She's faster? *w e l p*
Heavy
Demi (Phantasy Star IV: The End of the Millenium) vs Rose (Legend of Dragoon) - Rose can put on a blindfold and light a cigarette, does that count
Emelia(SaGa Frontier) vs Alex (Lunar: Silver Star) - them SaGa gunners, son.
Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves the World) vs Mesarthim (SaGa Frontier) - Never underestimate the power of whoring.
Lawfer (Valkyrie Profile) vs Mithos Yggdrasil (Tales of Symphonia) - I guess Mithos 4 has a shot with the randostatus move but I don't really have a ton of respect for that, and I'm pretty sure no legal form of Mithos is so durable as to avoid a 2HKO to me regardless of what I think of PWSes. Maybe if Mithos wasn't a ToS mage.
Middle
Etna (Disgaea Series) vs Brad Evans (Wild ARMs 2) - Probably.
Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Brozong (Pokémon) - Sure, burping Snow.
Yosuke Hanamura (Persona 4) vs Kanji Tatsumi (Persona 4) - Faster turn 1 and the combination of Diarama/Sukukaja gives Kanji fits.
Anastasia Romanov (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening) - Yeaaaah no.
Light
Mist (Fire Emblem Series) vs Serra (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword) - Florete 4HKOs Serra while allowing Mist to counter. Serra sure ain't 4HKOing back, so even if Mist misses once (possible, but Florete is accurate) she likely has this. ps snow play fe10
Zozma (SaGa Frontier) vs Draggy (Chrono Cross) - sure why not
Rufus Shinra (Final Fantasy VII) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3) - Not even solo boss durability hype will save you.
Archer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Innes (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones) - Yeah crossbow strats are completely valid as far as I'm concerned so Innes isn't countering dick.
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Godlike
Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) vs Citan Uzuki (Xenogears)
Elc (Arc the Lad II) vs Ghaleon (Lunar: Silver Star)
Rika (Phantasy Star IV) vs Tir McDohl (Suikoden Series) - Much more inclined to respect Tir's speed. WING BOOTS HYPE
Ted (Suikoden IV) vs Bat (Digital Devil Saga)
Heavy
Demi (Phantasy Star IV: The End of the Millenium) vs Rose (Legend of Dragoon)
Emelia(SaGa Frontier) vs Alex (Lunar: Silver Star)
Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves the World) vs Mesarthim (SaGa Frontier)
Lawfer (Valkyrie Profile) vs Mithos Yggdrasil (Tales of Symphonia)
Middle
Etna (Disgaea Series) vs Brad Evans (Wild ARMs 2)
Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Brozong (Pokémon) - HEAL BLOCK
Yosuke Hanamura (Persona 4) vs Kanji Tatsumi (Persona 4) Can we vote on P4 Arena forms instead??
Anastasia Romanov (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening) - Euthanasia inflicts 2 of the 4 status options, not just 1, so...
Light
Mist (Fire Emblem Series) vs Serra (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)
Zozma (SaGa Frontier) vs Draggy (Chrono Cross)
Rufus Shinra (Final Fantasy VII) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3)
Archer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Innes (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones)
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Godlike
Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) vs Citan Uzuki (Xenogears): This is fairly close I think. Katrina deadens Citan's damage big-time (he's down to non-hyper DBs) and can summon-stall him really badly so he needs doubleturns which... are rare late in the fight. Flipside is he should still get some... except he'll lose ground whenever he needs to recast Haste. That's probably enough for me to side with the Katrina votes.
Rika (Phantasy Star IV) vs Tir McDohl (Suikoden Series): She's faster. Neph: Tir can't equip Winged Boots in S1, allowing those makes him relatively slower. (If you meant S2 Tir, he's not especially fast to start with.)
Ted (Suikoden IV) vs Bat (Digital Devil Saga): See Snow. Guard is not an initiative move, so Ted OHKOs Bat.
Heavy
Demi (Phantasy Star IV: The End of the Millenium) vs Rose (Legend of Dragoon): For what it's worth, Medic Power doesn't self-target, so I wouldn't see it cleaning off statuses from Demi. Thaaat said she surely does immune Fear, which is nothing more than a collection of four stat-downs which Demi does immune.
Emelia(SaGa Frontier) vs Alex (Lunar: Silver Star): Gunners are pretty good. Being partially ITD puts away any hope of Alex avoiding the 2HKO, I'd think.
Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves the World) vs Mesarthim (SaGa Frontier): EDIT: If Cthulhu gets two attacks off on Mesarthim he wins (Dark Strike twice). Insane Death will claim Mesarthim if she goes for turtle strategies which I'm not sure work anyway here, unless she has a Blood Chalice in which case she's outsped and her game doesn't work at all.
Middle
Etna (Disgaea Series) vs Brad Evans (Wild ARMs 2): Brad gets off some big damage.
Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Brozong (Pokémon): Yulie with a statusblocker has pretty bad stats, she'll probably want to blitz Bronzong. Haste makes Gyro Ball really sting though... miight miss the 2HKO, certainly does with Protect but with Heal Block I suppose Bronzong can afford to only 3HKO. Sacrifice... yeah doesn't work with Heal Block at all, okay.
Anastasia Romanov (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening): Yeah Euthanasia has a 100% chance to do something bad here.
Light
Mist (Fire Emblem Series) vs Serra (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword): Later.
Zozma (SaGa Frontier) vs Draggy (Chrono Cross): Later.
Rufus Shinra (Final Fantasy VII) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3): *tink*
Archer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Innes (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones): Blindfire strats steal a win.
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Yosuke Hanamura (Persona 4) vs Kanji Tatsumi (Persona 4) Can we vote on P4 Arena forms instead??
Stat topic!
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Godlike
Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) vs Citan Uzuki (Xenogears) - I should probably math this out, but Haste didn't last THAT long in XG (not that it needed to) I want to say, so Citan is likely running out of EP here before killing. Katrina's like the one boss in the game that actually deserves a ton of durability respect for a variety of reasons, so it's still impressive Citan can put up a good fight here.
Heavy
Lawfer (Valkyrie Profile) vs Mithos Yggdrasil (Tales of Symphonia) - That's... a lot of damage on turn 2 for Lawfer. I thought he was one of those T3 PWS types, guess not. As a side comment the stat topic hypes Mithos way more than expected (although it doesn't make clear if the final transition is a legal form chain, and I forget myself), giving his Tower of Salvation form OHKO to average damage... but Lawfer isn't average and he should 2HKO here so it isn't really needed. (Don't think I'd take that literally anyway, the guard button definitely exists in ToS.)
Middle
Anastasia Romanov (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Fascinating.
Light
Mist (Fire Emblem Series) vs Serra (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword) - RandomConsonant you misspelled "Alondite" as Florette. (although okay Florette has better accuracy here anyway. sigh.)
Rufus Shinra (Final Fantasy VII) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3)
Archer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Innes (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones) - Welcome to the DL, where we hype blind-firing your crossbows to avoid reaction skills.
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Tell me more about this blind fire strats.
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You can fire a crossbow at range 1 to a panel 3 squares away and still hit the enemy, which avoids Innes' counter.
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Also, per what I already noted...
Archer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Innes (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones) - Welcome to the DL, where we hype blind-firing your crossbows to avoid reaction skills.
Counter is a reaction skill in FFT, and I'm 98% sure that reactions get turned off when something in the "middle" intercepts a shot - e.g. it's too late for Hamedo to turn on and to counterattack the archer because he was attacking a random bit of ground behind you, not you. So Innes's counters are doubly turned off - range 1, and this kind of attack ignores counters anyway, even if Archer was fighting a range 1-2 FE character.
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Actually, for what it's worth, blindfired attacks do not ignore reaction abilities. So the only reason it works here is because Innes can't counter at close range... this strategy would not work against someone with a Javelin, say.
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Godlike
Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) vs Citan Uzuki (Xenogears)
Elc (Arc the Lad II) vs Ghaleon (Lunar: Silver Star)
Rika (Phantasy Star IV) vs Tir McDohl (Suikoden Series)
Ted (Suikoden IV) vs Bat (Digital Devil Saga)
Heavy
Demi (Phantasy Star IV: The End of the Millenium) vs Rose (Legend of Dragoon)
Emelia(SaGa Frontier) vs Alex (Lunar: Silver Star)
Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves the World) vs Mesarthim (SaGa Frontier) - Better hold on tight, this Battle Mermaid hype train don't stop!
Lawfer (Valkyrie Profile) vs Mithos Yggdrasil (Tales of Symphonia)
Middle
Etna (Disgaea Series) vs Brad Evans (Wild ARMs 2)
Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Brozong (Pokémon)
Yosuke Hanamura (Persona 4) vs Kanji Tatsumi (Persona 4)
Anastasia Romanov (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Light
Mist (Fire Emblem Series) vs Serra (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)
Zozma (SaGa Frontier) vs Draggy (Chrono Cross)
Rufus Shinra (Final Fantasy VII) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3)
Archer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Innes (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones)
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Godlike
Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) vs Citan Uzuki (Xenogears)
Elc (Arc the Lad II) vs Ghaleon (Lunar: Silver Star) - Easy enough
Rika (Phantasy Star IV) vs Tir McDohl (Suikoden Series) - Blah.
Ted (Suikoden IV) vs Bat (Digital Devil Saga) - Goes first, boom. If ted failed the OHKO he would lose this, but he doesn't.
Heavy
Demi (Phantasy Star IV: The End of the Millenium) vs Rose (Legend of Dragoon) - Looks like she immunes Rose's status shit, and Rose isn't winning a slugfest with Demi without that.
Emelia(SaGa Frontier) vs Alex (Lunar: Silver Star) - 2HKOs first.
Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves the World) vs Mesarthim (SaGa Frontier) - ....I forgot about Hide Rune existing. Was all set to vote Cthulu, then saw that. Oi.
Lawfer (Valkyrie Profile) vs Mithos Yggdrasil (Tales of Symphonia) - Lets Lawfer get off a PWS. That'll end well.
Middle
Etna (Disgaea Series) vs Brad Evans (Wild ARMs 2) - Simple slugfest, Brad is better at those.
Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Brozong (Pokémon) - Heal. Block. Gets a win in the DL. I am cracking up here.
Yosuke Hanamura (Persona 4) vs Kanji Tatsumi (Persona 4) - Sukukaja gives Kanji fits, healing tilts it.
Anastasia Romanov (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening) - Youth In Asia
Light
Mist (Fire Emblem Series) vs Serra (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword) - Flourette hype? Sure, I'm down.
Zozma (SaGa Frontier) vs Draggy (Chrono Cross) - CC style physical chains get past glass shield, Draggy flat out outslugs after that.
Rufus Shinra (Final Fantasy VII) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3) - Whatever.
Archer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Innes (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones) - ...blindfire strats? Really? REALLY? Honestly even without that, I think Arrow Guard + shield for evasion against the counters does the job just fine. But sure, blindfire strats to make it a sure thing. -_-;
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Godlike
Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) vs Citan Uzuki (Xenogears)
Elc (Arc the Lad II) vs Ghaleon (Lunar: Silver Star)
Rika (Phantasy Star IV) vs Tir McDohl (Suikoden Series)
Ted (Suikoden IV) vs Bat (Digital Devil Saga)
Heavy
Demi (Phantasy Star IV: The End of the Millenium) vs Rose (Legend of Dragoon)
Emelia(SaGa Frontier) vs Alex (Lunar: Silver Star)
Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves the World) vs Mesarthim (SaGa Frontier)
Lawfer (Valkyrie Profile) vs Mithos Yggdrasil (Tales of Symphonia)
Middle
Etna (Disgaea Series) vs Brad Evans (Wild ARMs 2)
Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Bronzong (Pokémon)
Yosuke Hanamura (Persona 4) vs Kanji Tatsumi (Persona 4)
Anastasia Romanov (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Light
Mist (Fire Emblem Series) vs Serra (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)
Zozma (SaGa Frontier) vs Draggy (Chrono Cross)
Rufus Shinra (Final Fantasy VII) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3)
Archer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Innes (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones)
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Godlike
Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) vs Citan Uzuki (Xenogears)
Elc (Arc the Lad II) vs Ghaleon (Lunar: Silver Star)- No vote.
Rika (Phantasy Star IV) vs Tir McDohl (Suikoden Series)
Ted (Suikoden IV) vs Bat (Digital Devil Saga)
Heavy
Demi (Phantasy Star IV: The End of the Millenium) vs Rose (Legend of Dragoon)
Emelia(SaGa Frontier) vs Alex (Lunar: Silver Star)
Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves the World) vs Mesarthim (SaGa Frontier)
Lawfer (Valkyrie Profile) vs Mithos Yggdrasil (Tales of Symphonia)
Middle
Etna (Disgaea Series) vs Brad Evans (Wild ARMs 2)
Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Brozong (Pokémon)
Yosuke Hanamura (Persona 4) vs Kanji Tatsumi (Persona 4)
Anastasia Romanov (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Light
Mist (Fire Emblem Series) vs Serra (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)
Zozma (SaGa Frontier) vs Draggy (Chrono Cross)
Rufus Shinra (Final Fantasy VII) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3)
Archer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Innes (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones)
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Godlike
Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) vs Citan Uzuki (Xenogears)- Citan puts up a decent fight at least.
Elc (Arc the Lad II) vs Ghaleon (Lunar: Silver Star)- Elc puts up a better than expected fight, but yeah.
Rika (Phantasy Star IV) vs Tir McDohl (Suikoden Series)
Ted (Suikoden IV) vs Bat (Digital Devil Saga)
Heavy
Demi (Phantasy Star IV: The End of the Millenium) vs Rose (Legend of Dragoon)
Emelia(SaGa Frontier) vs Alex (Lunar: Silver Star)
Lawfer (Valkyrie Profile) vs Mithos Yggdrasil (Tales of Symphonia)
Middle
Etna (Disgaea Series) vs Brad Evans (Wild ARMs 2)
Yosuke Hanamura (Persona 4) vs Kanji Tatsumi (Persona 4)- I dunno. I think there is one aspect that should be getting more consideration with Yosuke's strategy: Criticals. Yosuke is spending a lot of time on defensive. When Kanji crits on his physical, he then has the chance to total 624 damage that turn. Yosuke does need a very large number of turns to actually kill Kanji, and considering that he's playing defensive so many turns, it seems like it might add up. Yosuke may still take it, but I don't think it's a flat out clean win
Light
Mist (Fire Emblem Series) vs Serra (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)- Is evasive, gets counters
Zozma (SaGa Frontier) vs Draggy (Chrono Cross)
Rufus Shinra (Final Fantasy VII) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3)
Archer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Innes (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones)
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Godlike
Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) vs Citan Uzuki (Xenogears) - Katrina. Citan can't even get enough combos off to break her shield once she hits that phase.
Elc (Arc the Lad II) vs Ghaleon (Lunar: Silver Star) - Ghaleon.
Rika (Phantasy Star IV) vs Tir McDohl (Suikoden Series) - Rika.
Ted (Suikoden IV) vs Bat (Digital Devil Saga) - Bat.
Heavy
Demi (Phantasy Star IV: The End of the Millenium) vs Rose (Legend of Dragoon) - Mmm...I think the better question is whether an android can feel fear. I wager that they may not be able to - I can't remember any fearful expressions from either of Demi or Wren during the game, which makes me think they cannot, so I would argue them immune to fear. So...uh...guns.
Emelia(SaGa Frontier) vs Alex (Lunar: Silver Star) - Alex. AlexAll hype.
Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves the World) vs Mesarthim (SaGa Frontier) - Cthulhu. Happy I just finished a few of his books, so I let him have those forms.
Lawfer (Valkyrie Profile) vs Mithos Yggdrasil (Tales of Symphonia) - Mithos. Lawfer can't build a PWS on his own...no way he can break Mithos here.
Middle
Etna (Disgaea Series) vs Brad Evans (Wild ARMs 2) - Etna. Boss form.
Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Brozong (Pokémon) - Yulie. WA5 form.
Yosuke Hanamura (Persona 4) vs Kanji Tatsumi (Persona 4) - Yosuke.
Anastasia Romanov (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening) - Anastasia.
Light
Mist (Fire Emblem Series) vs Serra (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword) - Mist. Gogogogogo Alondite.
Zozma (SaGa Frontier) vs Draggy (Chrono Cross) - Draggy.
Rufus Shinra (Final Fantasy VII) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3) - Rufus.
Archer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Innes (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones) - Innes. I don't think I allow FFT generics equipment anymore, since it makes them even more generic. WE MUST HAVE UNIQUENESS IN THE DL. Plus, either way, 0 defense.
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OK! We miss you. That said.
Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) vs Citan Uzuki (Xenogears) - Katrina. Citan can't even get enough combos off to break her shield once she hits that phase.
Sure he can. Katrina's speed drops to totally, totally horrible for that phase. Insanely awful. Even if enforced, I'd see your average speed dueler able to 10x turn her, and Citan should easily get 30 turns to her 1. The only thing she does in that phase is heal anyway. Now add in that Citan is from a system that allows honest-to-god combo saving & stacking even if you're being a hardass...
Archer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Innes (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones) - Innes. I don't think I allow FFT generics equipment anymore, since it makes them even more generic. WE MUST HAVE UNIQUENESS IN THE DL. Plus, either way, 0 defense.
Naked archer wins anyway thanks to arrow guard & no-counter punchs. (unless you let Sniper's special auto-hit 8% chance kick in vs. that?! even then, no, Innes is dying too quickly here for that to matter.)
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Naked archer HP is horrendous and is probably OHKOed. Although his damage actually doesn't suffer -that- much, I'm not sure he can afford to bank on perfection, as Innes has at worst 18% accuracy before hype for his good accuracy, Sure Shot, and the fact that by closing to melee against Innes I'd surely let Innes walk around behind Archer and get a back attack in (only enemies who can't do that have 3 FFT move, which you'd have to be an armour knight for me to see you that immobile), so it's actually 30% before sure shot hype... which yeah surely lands within the 3 tries Innes gets (minimum).
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I was assuming that the rest of the generics would get naked too, so Archer HP shouldn't be SO bad?
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Heavy
Demi (Phantasy Star IV: The End of the Millenium) vs Rose (Legend of Dragoon)
Emelia (SaGa Frontier) vs Alex (Lunar: Silver Star)
Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves the World) vs Mesarthim (SaGa Frontier) - DL Cthulhu does have a way to cheat around Hide stalling: the Cursed Sword. Mesarthim now starts the battle insane, and due to Insane Death, may randomly die on any given turn. I have no idea what the activation rate of Insane Death is (pretty low, one assumes) but compared to "stall for an indefinite period of time" I'm willing to give it some credit. Even with his now-lowered stats, Cthulhu can handily outslug, so with stalling ruled out...
Middle
Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Bronzong (Pokémon)
Light
Mist (Fire Emblem Series) vs Serra (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)
Rufus Shinra (Final Fantasy VII) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3)
Archer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Innes (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones) - Arguably, Arrow Guard trumps even Sure Shot, the same way that it mocks Concentrate and similar effects in FFT. This match is glorious.
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Yeah, but his speed is still only 13 vs. her 22 when it drops...not very good. In addition, by the time she hits that stage, her passive speed boost from Terrifying Heart probably makes a big difference (although...did Advanced Guard override that?) Even hasted he's only slightly faster than her. Not sure if I see Citan able to pull off the appropriate combo attacks to break it (since XG "combo" attacks aren't the same as those in XF), but even if I do, he needs 1 full AP combo build...which only hits for 7 of the required 10 hits, and takes 7 actions to build up again. She'll heal back in that time, and XG Haste wears off, so I think it's very likely Citan will run out of EP to do anything. She's ~51x HP to me, and Citan's damage isn't so amazing as to really break that easily (especially through 1000 HP healing, or 8.54x healing of HP), only 20% above average or so. The durability is too much, from my perspective, but I don't think he'd win even if you cut a lot of that out. Made a bit closer since both come from EXA'able games, but not really that close. Bosses > PCs, as usual (and damnit, how it's meant to be!).
Archer would have awful HP and 0 defense still, meaning he probably dies immediately to Innes. Hell, the 0 defense all FFT characters have hurts enough to make it closer to begin with. I suppose Arrow Guard makes it closer, but that's ignoring Innes evasion, accuracy, and sexiness. What was the damage of the punches anyway? Lower than with a bow, probably? Seems in favor of the Innes.
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Nice try OK, your gentle PC-loving nature is showing through. Tony's 117 speed means he goes on a horrific dogey destruction spree of dodecaturns vs. that slowpoke Id, let alone Levin's 224 speed and cancelling meaning that even ZOMG PCHP bosses like the 16 speed Lavos or the ~30 speed Ghaleon get effortlessly slaughtered. Join the PC-favoring side... you know you want to....
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Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves the World) vs Mesarthim (SaGa Frontier) - DL Cthulhu does have a way to cheat around Hide stalling: the Cursed Sword. Mesarthim now starts the battle insane, and due to Insane Death, may randomly die on any given turn. I have no idea what the activation rate of Insane Death is (pretty low, one assumes) but compared to "stall for an indefinite period of time" I'm willing to give it some credit. Even with his now-lowered stats, Cthulhu can handily outslug, so with stalling ruled out...
BloodChalice puts a corkscrew on that strategy and doesn't cost Mesarthim any speed (the lower durability doesn't mean anything in the fight).
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Actually it's the other way around, BloodChalice costs speed but the lower magic defence is irrelevant. That said Mesarthim is crucially still faster than Cursed Sword Cthulhu, so she isn't OHKOed... but slower than standard Cthulhu who can drive her insane and not allow her time to buff up properly (since she needs both regen + HideRune).
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Hmmmm, you're right. But then, it basically becomes a guessing game on equipment - Cthulhu can only win if he equips the Cursed Sword. If he goes for the default build, Mesarthim would have no reason to equip the Chalice, and if he goes for the Cursed Sword build, she still beats him in speed. I'd default the win to her anyway in this case, since the onus of the alternative build is on Cthulhu (REGARDLESS, if she is slower, she can't really win unless you allow all people who face Cthulhu PCs to gain 10% damage each turn).
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I think he goes for his default build regardless. If she equips a Blood Chalice then she's slower so her game won't work at all. If she doesn't then Insane Death should get her at some point.
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He has MT insanity outside the Cursed Sword?
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I don't think he needs it. Mesarthim needs to give him a turn to get her game going, whether that be SoulRune for buffing or VitalityRune for regen. I guess you could just hype her winning turn 2 with petrify though... hmm. Wish I knew how accurate it was!
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It's the thing. If he goes for the default build and has no MT insanity skill, he can only inflict it on her if she's equipping the Blood Chalice. And if he's going for the default, she has no reason to equip it -at all-. Assuming both default and both alternative, she still gets to go first and cheese him out - she only loses if he goes for the default and she goes for the alternative, which, given full equipment option knowledge, makes no logical sense. There are more guessing game outcomes where Cthulhu loses than wins.
(Of course, if he -does- have MT insanity - which I'll check out just now - this is all moot and I'm changing my vote.)
EDIT: Just checked. Nope, all ST, unless he gets it off some arcane alternative level build (and my sympathy for mix-matching Cthulhu level builds midseason is pretty much zilch).
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Going first isn't really enough. Without the regen what is she going to do exactly? She has to attack sooner or later. Remember that any action breaks HideRune... it's only useful for turtling with regen (which needs to be cast in advance) or waiting out opponent buffs. If Mesarthim auto-beat anyone slower than +1.1 SD speed without MT damage she wouldn't ever have been placed in Middle. Same with Glass Shield, which is only useful for waiting out opponent buffs or doing chippy counter-damage.
I mean I guess you can see her beating anyone ST who is slower than her... though it only flies if you force people into a CTB system -and- disallow waiting. Which well if that's what you do fair enough. (Also the entire mystic cast can do something similar which I would find pretty obnoxious.)
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Weird thought, but since CKDL *is* the DL now... Might it not be worth while to move these season topics and player ship tracking topics to the RPGDL forum subsection. I mean, it prolly doesn't matter since it's just for us, but on the off chance any new people are interested in the idea, it might be nice if they can find it in the forum?
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I'd rather not.
Also, home a bit late tonight, will update tomorrow eveningish.
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Godlike
Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) vs Citan Uzuki (Xenogears)
Elc (Arc the Lad II) vs Ghaleon (Lunar: Silver Star)
Rika (Phantasy Star IV) vs Tir McDohl (Suikoden Series)
Ted (Suikoden IV) vs Bat (Digital Devil Saga)
Heavy
Demi (Phantasy Star IV: The End of the Millenium) vs Rose (Legend of Dragoon)
Emelia(SaGa Frontier) vs Alex (Lunar: Silver Star)
Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves the World) vs Mesarthim (SaGa Frontier)
Lawfer (Valkyrie Profile) vs Mithos Yggdrasil (Tales of Symphonia)
Middle
Etna (Disgaea Series) vs Brad Evans (Wild ARMs 2)
Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Brozong (Pokémon)
Yosuke Hanamura (Persona 4) vs Kanji Tatsumi (Persona 4)
Anastasia Romanov (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Light
Mist (Fire Emblem Series) vs Serra (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)
Zozma (SaGa Frontier) vs Draggy (Chrono Cross)
Rufus Shinra (Final Fantasy VII) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3)
Archer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Innes (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones)
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Going first isn't really enough. Without the regen what is she going to do exactly? She has to attack sooner or later. Remember that any action breaks HideRune... it's only useful for turtling with regen (which needs to be cast in advance) or waiting out opponent buffs. If Mesarthim auto-beat anyone slower than +1.1 SD speed without MT damage she wouldn't ever have been placed in Middle. Same with Glass Shield, which is only useful for waiting out opponent buffs or doing chippy counter-damage.
I mean I guess you can see her beating anyone ST who is slower than her... though it only flies if you force people into a CTB system -and- disallow waiting. Which well if that's what you do fair enough. (Also the entire mystic cast can do something similar which I would find pretty obnoxious.)
In a sense, that's exactly my point. I mean, I both force them into a CTB setting and allow waiting, but, as far as I'm concerned, waiting spends a turn, and, both being originally from pure TB systems, there's no real waiting measure that keeps a double from the faster PC creeping up eventually. I'll also point out that, when first placing Mesarthim's rank, most people didn't even remember HideRune existing (it happens. See Eileen and Hellion being initially ranked Middle and Light respectively due to people not knowing what Copper Flesh did). Though I certainly won't blame anyone from barring that strategy from working through different waiting interps, it -is- obnoxious.
The mystic cast's resource for this kind of stalling is a bit more limited, since Glass Shield is more exploitable in spite of blocking off more attacks - needs to be recast upon breaking, can be broken by any attack, doesn't get past ST status, the works (though testing if ST status breaks through HideRune would be nice). HideRune is just unintuitively ridiculous once transferred into a CTB setting.
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Godlike
Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF) vs Citan Uzuki (Xenogears): Without MT I don't think he can punch through her speed and Knights.
Elc (Arc the Lad II) vs Ghaleon (Lunar: Silver Star): Not gunna happen.
Rika (Phantasy Star IV) vs Tir McDohl (Suikoden Series): What are the odds of Rika going first and landing Eliminat... probably less than 66% against someone like Tir.
Ted (Suikoden IV) vs Bat (Digital Devil Saga)
Heavy
Demi (Phantasy Star IV: The End of the Millenium) vs Rose (Legend of Dragoon): Ouch. Status immunity.
Emelia(SaGa Frontier) vs Alex (Lunar: Silver Star): 2...HKOs? Two RDAs KO, so she needs to 2HKO. I'll just follow NEB on it I guess.
Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves the World) vs Mesarthim (SaGa Frontier): Not going to hype HideRune that hard.
Lawfer (Valkyrie Profile) vs Mithos Yggdrasil (Tales of Symphonia): Tales bosses do get some respect from me.
Middle
Etna (Disgaea Series) vs Brad Evans (Wild ARMs 2)
Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4) vs Brozong (Pokémon)
Yosuke Hanamura (Persona 4) vs Kanji Tatsumi (Persona 4)
Anastasia Romanov (Shadow Hearts: Covenant) vs Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Light
Mist (Fire Emblem Series) vs Serra (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)
Zozma (SaGa Frontier) vs Draggy (Chrono Cross)
Rufus Shinra (Final Fantasy VII) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3)
Archer (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Innes (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones)
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For the record, Cthulhu can get MT insanity with Nightfall, the alternative to Curse (which is, barring wacky cases like this one, flat-out better in a duel). Not allowing characters to reselect their skill list from their "DL default" is of course entirely understandable. Since I wouldn't allow a turn-based character to double turn another turn-based character regardless of their relative speed stats, I do not see Cthulhu as needing Nightfall here, but I realize that isn't how everyone rolls.
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Godlike
Katrina Liane Elesius (Wild ARMs XF)- iiiiiiiiii vs Citan Uzuki (Xenogears)- i
Elc (Arc the Lad II) vs Ghaleon (Lunar: Silver Star)- iiiiiiiiii
Rika (Phantasy Star IV)- iiiiiiiii vs Tir McDohl (Suikoden Series)- iiii
Ted (Suikoden IV)- iiiiiiii vs Bat (Digital Devil Saga)- iii
Heavy
Demi (Phantasy Star IV: The End of the Millenium)- iiiiiiiiiiiiii vs Rose (Legend of Dragoon)
Emelia(SaGa Frontier)- iiiiiiiiii vs Alex (Lunar: Silver Star)- ii
Cthulhu (Cthulhu Saves the World)- iiiii vs Mesarthim (SaGa Frontier)- iiiiii
Lawfer (Valkyrie Profile)- iiiiii vs Mithos Yggdrasil (Tales of Symphonia)- ii
Middle
Etna (Disgaea Series)- i vs Brad Evans (Wild ARMs 2)- iiiiiiiii
Yulie Ahtreide (Wild ARMs 4)- ii vs Brozong (Pokémon)- iiiiiiiii
Yosuke Hanamura (Persona 4)- -iiiiiiiiii vs Kanji Tatsumi (Persona 4)
Anastasia Romanov (Shadow Hearts: Covenant)- iiiiiiiiii vs Miriel (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
Light
Mist (Fire Emblem Series)- iiiiiiiiiiii vs Serra (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)- ii
Zozma (SaGa Frontier)- ii vs Draggy (Chrono Cross)- iiiiiiiii
Rufus Shinra (Final Fantasy VII)- i vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3)- iiiiiiiiiiiii
Archer (Final Fantasy Tactics)- iiiiiiiiiiiiii vs Innes (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones)- i