Messages

1

Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 4

« on: September 23, 2010, 05:05:05 AM »

As for being wrong, it kinda happens sometimes. Still think it's the best option available in games like this, would still do it again in similar circumstances. Other suspicious circumstances aside, going 'it is CLEARLY scummy to LAL in a game where lurkers are scum!' ignores that town totally doesn't know that, and that any quality town is going to crack down on it, and that most of the time all scum would need to do is sit back, watch, and build cred on either tagging on later or attacking it's proponents

Yes, because attacking the main anti-lurking proponent has brought me tons and tons of town cred. That is clearly what I should have done, if I were scum. Thanks. Did I ever say I was pro-lurking? No. Again, I have the unfair advantage of knowing I'm town, so I know it HAS to be two of the active people. Unfortunately, I put myself in a bad position going into today. My fault, yeah, but I'll accept my failures. If you're town, Mai, for the love of god, don't play off yours like they were nothing.

Nothing to lose at this point. If I'm wrong, then scum can have their pick on who to lynch. 

##Vote: Mai

2

Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 4

« on: September 22, 2010, 06:46:56 PM »

In addition to what everyone else has pointed out, her cases and railing against LAL contain a very obvious key fallacy: scum!Mai advocating LAL all game would have no guarantee townies would lurk like Rin and Leia did!  It's a retroactive case that assigns a motive to Mai (preying on poor lurky townies) that would be impossible for scum!Mai to actually have had at the time.  

LAL is a perfectly defensible position for active scum to take. Lay the argument out there, see who lurks and jump on them if they do. If they're loud enough, then they can get town to follow along with them if the lurkers are egregious enough. How the hell can you argue against it then, barring someone basically coming out and saying they're scum? If they return... oh well. Nothing lost, LAL after all.

So I don't see what your 'maybe we shouldn't lynch lurkers' point actually accomplishes other than 'oh noes, don't lynch me just because I'm not posting as much as everyone else!'

Actually, I checked yesterday (Day 3). My one post was damn close to some. How many did Mai have other than her hammer post? One. It just agreed with Houllihan, says Tanaka isn't looking good but doesn't follow up on it, and then railed on me some more while saying the token "Yep... Rin". Lazy. Leia in Day 2. Leia RETURNS "Pffft. Active lurker". Day 3. Tron asks for time to give Rin a chance to respond. Mai's reaction? Immediate hammer. I think this post from Day 2 sums her attitude up the best:

Leery at people popping up and going 'well Leia might not be scum because scum would not do what she does, it's too easy!' It is pretty much one of the scummiest things you can do and I certainly shall not be going elsewhere today. Mostly looking at Maya going 'surely Leia would have silenced Rin by dying'. It is a pretty hard thing to gauge; Leia probably expected to die on her own soon enough, she could not be thinking at all, she could be waiting for a buddy to slam her, she could be a lot of things. Tron pretty much nails it by pointing out what she is doing is flagrantly anti-town. Kinda want to see how it all goes down before speculating on teams- but a Leia/Rin one isn't one I think is too likely at this point, for all that I think they're both pretty bad.

Not liking Maya much, this is a situation where I think keeping it simple is better and rooting around for theories on contributors instead of those who, well, aren't seems like it's looking right past the obvious. In her case on Tron here-

Ran around like a headless chicken, very pointedly did not respond to my expanded argument (you know, after having hated the earlier form of it at this point), and for playing daddy's little friendly helper since to blend back in. What's this, you just so happen to agree with two of the cases of the day that were made before you posted? What are the odds! Let's not forget that the actual sum content of what she did after getting all flustered - which I think is at least part of why people aren't voting for her? - was actually no better than most. The very large attitude change to the new sweetness does nothing to dissuade me either.

-doesn't have anything solid in it that is screaming 'SCUMMY TRAITS' to me, so I'm not sure why she's still pursuing it as this juncture and certainly don't think it is more deserving than the many other colourful characters I've singled out today.

All it ever is with her is "DO NOT LOOK AT THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN! Look at the obvious! It's so obvious! Obvious!"

If it's so obvious, why has she been 100% wrong up until now?.

Li, there's no need to rush this. At least let Mai and Tron comment some more, even if they haven't come back after a few hours pass. Game WILL end if you lynch me, but if we can somehow turn this around and find scum, more content from them would benefit tomorrow. Not that it helps, but I'm Vanilla Town.

3

Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 4

« on: September 22, 2010, 03:18:53 PM »

The only thing I can say is about the last post he made... YOU were one of those two votes on Mai at the time Tanaka hammered. If you think that Leia was a forgone conclusion at that point and thought she was a better lynch than Leia at the time... why weren't YOU more concerned about the timing of Tanaka's hammer, especially when Maya had ALSO just voted Mai before you and there WAS momentum shifting?

Because momentum WASN'T shifting. There were, uh, two people who wanted a Mai lynch. You and Margaret (who weren't around to change your votes AT ALL coming up to deadline) still had votes lying on Leia. Leia wasn't around to pass along a vote, Tanaka had said that he found Mai incredibly Townie, Tron said that Leia had basically given her no choice but to vote her, and Rin was nowhere as usual but had expressed the same desire to lynch Leia as just about everyone else. I knew full well that voting Mai had a near-zero chance of actually changing the lynch so late in the day, but that wasn't enough of a reason to not make an effort.
I said myself at the time:

Probably still too late, but hell if I'm not gonna try.

Okay then, so you cared. I still don't see why you hold that against me that I would ask Tanaka for an explanation, especially in light of your "reason enough to make an effort" towards a Mai lynch.

And honestly, in response to your case, Helga? If all the lurkers are Town, then Town deserves to lose.

Also, you get mad at Carth for jumping onto Leia. Even though, uh, you proceeded to go along with said lynch. You can't say he's bad for leading a lynch which you supported - that's having your cake and eating it.

Yes. I'm not going to play it down or say something like "I intended to move my vote" or anything. However, if I think I see something scummy, I'm going to call it, regardless of whether or not I'm guilty of it as well. It does townies no good to not mention points against other people that they themselves are guilty of. Does it affect how people view said case? Maybe. But it's untownie behavior not to mention potential scum behavior, and it's untownie behavior to say that people shouldn't call it how they see it.



I don't agree with your statement about town deserving to lose at all. Yes, all lurkers being town is bad. However, it's the ones who DO win that are the ones who deserved to win. Everything else is just jerking off and backpatting to make yourself feel better. Scum hasn't won yet, so if you are town, don't say defeatist crap like that.

4

Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 4

« on: September 22, 2010, 01:58:58 PM »

Mai did the same thing yesterday, but things were more cut and dry, and I can't fault the reasoning on that one.

Crap, this should read: "Mai did the same thing yesterday, but it was more cut and dry since there was literally no activity at all (voting or otherwise), and I can't fault the reasoning for that one."

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Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 4

« on: September 22, 2010, 01:45:32 PM »

I can easily say this is my worst game ever, and I definitely should have given a second thought to joining the game on my schedule, but now isn't the time to get emo or make excuses. Lets see if I can't work some magic.

I've been giving this a lot of thought, but I'm more convinced than ever in this line of reasoning. I've hesitated on it, but it follows something I think people have kind of been missing:

Lurking is not scum's only strategy.

If all scum are active, LAL becomes one of their best options.

Scum can make completely reasonable and legitimate arguments too, especially when it's following as simple a logic and hallowed Mafia rule as LAL.

With Houllihan gone, that leaves myself as the only person who's generally been considered a lurker left in the game. Since I know I'm not scum, I know it has to be one of the active people. Who has been pushing LAL the hardest? Well, obvious answer there is Mai. In this situation, who benefits the most from LAL? Scum. The utter confidence always present in Mai's tone belies the results she's achieved so far. Are their methods sound? Yes. So apart from bad/unlucky play, what else can you really attribute it to at this point? She's targeting townies on purpose, since she's scum. That said, I don't know what to make of her Day 1 vote, but considering how long before the clusterfuck happened she laid it, it could be anything so I can't really hold it over her one way or another. Just adding again that she did leave for the rest of the day.

Pretty much been directing town all game. This first post from Day 2

wails on me for a bit, then demands to know why I hadn't considered Leia as a lurker poster, setting her next post:

where she jumps easily onto the LAL case for Leia.

As for a partner, leaning Tanaka. An inactive town allows scum to end the day in the interest of promoting discussion the next day. I can't fault the reasoning, but Tanaka ending the day when he did while things were starting to swing towards Mai didn't sit well with me. Mai did the same thing yesterday, but things were more cut and dry, and I can't fault the reasoning on that one. However, given the results I have to consider this.

I haven't really been able to get a solid handle on Li since I dropped my case on him Day 2. (And yes, Li, you're right in that it was supposed to be Tanaka instead of Tohsaka in that post. Got them confused). The only thing I can say is about the last post he made... YOU were one of those two votes on Mai at the time Tanaka hammered. If you think that Leia was a forgone conclusion at that point and thought she was a better lynch than Leia at the time... why weren't YOU more concerned about the timing of Tanaka's hammer, especially when Maya had ALSO just voted Mai before you and there WAS momentum shifting? This makes your own accusation:

No answer was given by Tanaka, no 'crap wrong name' from Helga, making this look like a by-the-motions effort to accuse a buddy. Plus she calls him out for the D2 hammer saying 'WHY DID YOU LYNCH LEIA MAI WAS ONLY AT TWO VOTES oh by the way vote mai', when really there wasn't much chance of a non-Leia lynch happening anyway. No-one would have held it against him, so it feels forced.

look bad for YOU, not me. Why vote if you don't care? Why not cast the hammer yourself if you're not going to be concerned with how it ends? On second thought, he's starting to rise over Tanaka...

Tron... I can't say anything bad about. I DID go over Maya's case on her like I said I would (which I still maintain is just doing your duty as a townie), but I agree that Maya was offbase on it.

Mai >> Li >= Tanaka >>> Tron for me at the moment.

Forgive the bad link tags in the Mai case. I forgot how to do the url links.

6

Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 2

« on: September 19, 2010, 09:06:02 PM »

I really, really don't like how yesterday ended. There was absolutely no need to rush the lynch, even if you think Mai was the towniest town that ever townied. Tanaka, seriously, what was up with that? Mai was only at two votes. Two quickly gained votes, but two votes all the same. Leia was not looking great, but do you really think the continued discussion was that dangerous to just go ahead and lynch? I can sympathize with wanting to deal with the atrophy in the discussion, but it just doesn't feel like a wholly great move. Care to share your thought process, apart from Leia being scummy?



As for cases today, I love Mai as a suspect.

Leery at people popping up and going 'well Leia might not be scum because scum would not do what she does, it's too easy!' It is pretty much one of the scummiest things you can do and I certainly shall not be going elsewhere today. Mostly looking at Maya going 'surely Leia would have silenced Rin by dying'. It is a pretty hard thing to gauge; Leia probably expected to die on her own soon enough, she could not be thinking at all, she could be waiting for a buddy to slam her, she could be a lot of things. Tron pretty much nails it by pointing out what she is doing is flagrantly anti-town. Kinda want to see how it all goes down before speculating on teams- but a Leia/Rin one isn't one I think is too likely at this point, for all that I think they're both pretty bad.

Not liking Maya much, this is a situation where I think keeping it simple is better and rooting around for theories on contributors instead of those who, well, aren't seems like it's looking right past the obvious. In her case on Tron here-

Ran around like a headless chicken, very pointedly did not respond to my expanded argument (you know, after having hated the earlier form of it at this point), and for playing daddy's little friendly helper since to blend back in. What's this, you just so happen to agree with two of the cases of the day that were made before you posted? What are the odds! Let's not forget that the actual sum content of what she did after getting all flustered - which I think is at least part of why people aren't voting for her? - was actually no better than most. The very large attitude change to the new sweetness does nothing to dissuade me either.

-doesn't have anything solid in it that is screaming 'SCUMMY TRAITS' to me, so I'm not sure why she's still pursuing it as this juncture and certainly don't think it is more deserving than the many other colourful characters I've singled out today.

This quote kinda looks bad in light of both Leia and Maya's town flip. Leia's behavior was pretty bad at the time, but this was a large leap in speculation. It ascribes a level of insidiousness to Leia I don't think was ever there, despite the attitude Leia copped.

In particular, I really agree with this quote from Maya yesterday about Mai.

Hey guys, let's not pay any attention on the people who are talking and line people up in the order of how little they've spoken. Mechanical thinking, mechanical excuses. Turn brain off, let scum win. I'd buy it as the thought process from someone hopelessly dedicated to the rule book, but not from Rat. Not for a minute. And he's been playing this card all day.

I had the same kind of feeling yesterday, when Mai made a big deal about my charge against Li for missing out on sudden death and proposing it might have been on purpose. This was a legitimate thing to at least bring up, though it might not have been as damning as I thought it was. Calling it completely stupid was not constructive at all, and saying Li was around up to that point completely missed mine. Maya showed what good townies do with things like that by at least taking it seriously and offering a legitimate counterpoint, at least.

Was suspicious of her yesterday too, so for now, ##Vote: Mai

I'm also going to give a second look at Maya's case on Tron, since after looking at the voting record, aside from Mai, Tron is the only person that Maya really had a vote on.

7

Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 2

« on: September 17, 2010, 03:08:45 PM »

I simply will not move away from the blindingly obvious cases. There is Helga, as I discussed earlier; I don't want to just excuse her for vanishing yesterday (as I said before, it would have been quite trivial and non-time-consuming to post something. I can't believe she couldn't have found the time somewhere.) In her last post she accepted a fairly strong counterpoint against her case on Li, then didn't actually re-evaluate things in the name of being 'purposeful'.

You might have misunderstood me a bit. I was sticking to my guns because I still believed that Li's absence was on purpose, not... whatever you mean by "being purposeful". But the case does bear further consideration due to...

Leia posted! And... I honestly cannot make heads or tails on the case, other than gut vote. Not really news, but... yeah. Nothing else to go on. At best it's extremely lazy town play. At best. This honestly benefits no one. While Li is going about things in a rather haphazard fashion, at least he is trying to put something together. Leia is just... I don't know what. They're certainly not really trying to put something solid together, especially when the heat is on them. Know what does that? Scum and bad townies. And we don't need either.

##Unvote
##Vote: Princess Leia

That brings her to -1, I believe.



Tanaka also just sort of ignored my question... I would still like an answer to the question I asked in my previous post.

Also just sort of headdesking about Rin... but if it does keep going like it has been, the mod will sort it out before we will have to. I don't think there's that much more time left.

8

Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 2

« on: September 16, 2010, 11:15:22 PM »

Yeah, I kinda missed the obvious Leia lurking case due to zeroing in on my Li case. My bad.

Extra points for calling me out for lurking today (this is a LIE, what)- also note that she accuses Li of just 'Leaving' at some point, which.. seems stupid? Li was around as much as anyone during day 1, so I don't see nonposting as an acceptable charge against him/her/whatever. Don't much like how she goes 'look at Mai!' and then.. doesn't do it herself, either.

Talk about trying to fly under the radar, right?

Yeah, Helga brought this up a lot against people who it clearly does not apply against, the only person who would fit this criteria that she discusses is Leia. I am also willing to consider voting Leia for lurking as well! But Helga seems clearly worse at this point, she's slinging a lot of mud in attempt to paint the situation as something that it is not.

I'm going to assume that by "lurking today" you mean "lurking yesterday" since I said nothing close to the former. Day 2 had just started, after all. Anyway. I really wish there WAS more to talk about with you yesterday aside from your tiff with Tron. Unless you want to count your vague poke at Chiaki or the explanation to Tohsaka which was just clarifying/more on Tron. I did mis-speak though, in that I should have said active lurking. You posted a few times... I guess it looked to people that you were posting and contributing... on one thing.

And Li did "leave". Even if someone is active, if they miss the last quarter of the day, including a sudden death with himself on the chopping block, you have to at least consider it's on purpose. It's not just actions, it's the timing of actions too. Although Maya at least brings up a good counterargument that he could have easily saved himself if he'd been around, which I hadn't considered. It's enough to give me pause, but I'm still in the purposeful camp, so I'm still decided on this for now, with Mai being my #2.

Tohsaka: We seem to agree at the very least that Li's A/B theories about Houllihan were offbase. You are working with slightly more info (Li's quick-flip to Mai afterwards), but we came to the same conclusion. Leaving out what I said about Mai, what exactly about my post is non-sensical? 

On Leia: Joke vote, unvote to vote for nigh unexplained reasons. That about sums up Leia, really. There isn't a whole lot to go on really until she posts, if she posts. I'm... okay with LAL if it comes to that, but I'm much more on Li and Mai's case.

On Rin: Her one post of the day had more content than Leia, Mai and others. However, it's inexcusable that she hasn't shown up since so you can't really count it in her favor. Seriously. Post more.



Thank you for the support, Tron.

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Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 2

« on: September 16, 2010, 12:36:15 AM »

Right now, I'm just mad at myself. I should have known better than to leave catching up for nighttime and today. The more left to untangle, the harder it is to start from scratch. Stupid, stupid, stupid Helga! Ohhhhh the vanity of my youth! But thats it! No more Ms. Nice Pigtails!



Self-tsun aside. The person who stood out most from yesterday was Li. Stood out as much as a stupid football-head I won't mention. Calling Asuka for an overreaction to the jokevote was fine... but that seemed to be his whole contribution for the day, unless you count his overreaction to Tron's throw-away line, which seemed to be trying to produce exactly the kind of reaction Mai commented on from her. Then he oddly goes "Ha! I counter your argument!" to "Eh, whatever. You're posting, I'm posting, and that's okay." in the same post. Then he just... just... LEAVES for the rest of the day. Talk about trying to fly under the radar, right? Can't say anything incriminating during sudden death when you don't post!

His first post today at least offers much more than his Day 1 content, but his case is also suspect. It ignores a large amount of Houlihan's reasoning and posts at sudden death, zeroing in on only the incriminating parts. His two so-called theories are rather large, poorly supported assumptions at best and wild accusations at worst. Especially when they don't really gel with the rest of his argument, since he's basically trying to say that the things she didn't do are what his evidence supports she was intending to do.

##VOTE: Li Syaoran

Mai is also needs to be looked at! Cause just... look at her! The tiff with Tron Bonne seemed to be the only contribution she made yesterday and also just sort of lurked through the day. I can't trust girls who look better than me that kind of behavior.

10

Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 1

« on: September 14, 2010, 06:59:51 AM »

Ugh. So some stupid fantasy creature decides to just up and leave, leaving ME to find these stupid people? That's just so... so... RUDE!

I don't care. I'm sticking with my previous plans. I'll catch up on you lame people tomorrow.

11

Forum Games / Re: Cthulu Mafia - TOWN (drunk) WIN, MADNESS SOMEWHAT AVERTED

« on: May 13, 2010, 11:30:50 PM »

I think the funniest thing is I inspected Pietro only because I was going to call for his lynch the next day and confirm my sanity.

I'm still a little sad. When Bobbin said he had been guarding someone with what he believed to be an investigative role, I thought he had caught on to the hints I'd dropped and my lurker strategy. Sigh. Guess not.

Nope, Sopko/Handley was the one.  I thought for sure he had a way of knowing alignments and as such was either Cop or Scum.  But... not. >_<  I actually played pretty bad, in retrospect.

12

Forum Games / Re: Cthulu Mafia - Day 4

« on: May 04, 2010, 08:46:20 AM »

Wait, I take that back, Kolmogorov is a Miller according to Hargreaves, so he CAN'T be Scum if Hargreaves is telling the truth.  Flipping either Kolmogorov or Greaves will tell us Hargreaves's alignment, Kolmogorov certainly, Greaves almost certainly.

It really is a 3 vs. 4 thing at this point.

13

Forum Games / Re: Cthulu Mafia - Day 4

« on: May 04, 2010, 08:43:03 AM »

"Seems to me, gentlemen, we find ourselves sorted into three groups."

"First we've got the folks who we can trust with our lives, albeit me, I'm not feeling too well about my chances of staying among their number.  If I ain't dead tomorrow, you can sure as hell string me up - what I have to do to crack this open, won't leave enough of what's 'me' to deserve anything else.  But I expect I will be."

((I.e., slowkill victim, will flip tonight or hang tomorrow.  I could still be Scum/3rd party, and the remaining slowkiller or slowkillers NOT that alignment.  But I'm dead either way, so you'll know I'm Town soon enough.))

"Gershom here, in addition to being the brother of our good Mr. Bike, ain't from around these parts, so he clearly wasn't involved in the murders."

((confirmed townie #1))

"And finally Mr. Daniels, you look downright cleaned up these last two days.  I wouldn't dream of suspecting a fine, upstanding member of society like yourself."

((confirmed townie #2))

"Then we have this trio of Mr. Hargreaves's.  His own self, who - pardon me, Sam, I was feeling right kind to you up until all of this, and I allow I still am - puts his imprimatur on a pair of our less than leading citizens, and then Mr. Greaves or whatever his name is, and Mr. Kolmogorov.  Now, if it weren't for Mr. Hargreaves, I'd be inclined to lynch the both of those two - but his piping up did spare Kolomogorov the noose yesterday, and slung it around Hayles where it ended up belonging."

((If Hargreaves is lying, he's surely Scum.  I would guess Godfather.  Nathan and Nikolai look like the two Scummiest players to me, apart from Hargreaves's guarantee on them.  That could be the whole Scum team, or Hargreaves could legitimately be a rolecop and have sucked 1-2 innocent Townies in with him.  However, if either Nathan or Nicolai is Scum, Hargreaves seems almost sure to be as well (although not the other member of the guaranteed pair).  Particularly if Nathan is Scum, since what we've seen of Nikolai's role could legitimately be a Scum role and Hargreaves could just not know it.))

"Finally we've got these four gentlemen: Mr. Dale, Mr. Handley, Mr. Andrews and Mr. O'Malley.  I said yesterday I don't feel real kindly toward Mr. O'Malley, and Mr. Handley and Mr. Andrews both have the first two days on their consciences, one for what he did, the other for what he DIDN'T."

((If Hargreaves is telling the truth, Nikolai *might* be Scum but probably isn't, Hargreaves and Nathan aren't.  That leaves us with these four to pick from.  I would rank them O'Malley > Handley = Andrews > Dale, since that was an awfully vociferous scumbus to end Day 3 on BarDale's part if he's part of Team Scum.  In this case, three of these four people would be Scum, unless Nikolai is in which case two of these four would be Scum.))

((To me the question for Day 4 is obvious: do we trust Hargreaves's claim and hunt Scum among the undetermined players, or do we test Hargreaves's claim and hunt Scum among Hargreaves's trio?))

14

Forum Games / Re: Cthulu Mafia - Day 4

« on: May 04, 2010, 07:50:29 AM »

"You seem to have developed a right curious aversion to me, Mr... Greaves.  After we were getting along so well before you told us the truth, I can only assume it's your true self what doesn't cotton to my behavior."

"Quite frankly, friend, you've got me puzzled.  On the one hand, Mr. Hargreaves here would have me believe you're not only an innocent, but a most upstanding gentleman.  On the other, you most certainly have not comported yourself as such."

"What's a fellow to do?"

-----

First off, your case on me.  Not because my dead ass needs defending, but because your attack is just monstrously bad.

I mean, really?  REALLY?

What's the point of even making a case on me?  When you yourself want to lynch Kyle Handley in no small part because he suggested we shouldn't hesitate to lynch Mr. Bike the Elder just because of a claimed slowkill?

But let's break down that case, since you've deigned to dangle out such a spaghetti of atrocious reasoning.

You think I've been... soft... on the guy whose copclaim I hammered... because in my Day 1 summary post he ranked behind the main points of discussion for the first two days?  Because in my opening Day 3 post he, once again, didn't crack the top 4?  I guess you wanted another Wall of Text, regardless of your poke at said wall now.

Of course, where was this problem with my play when your Day 3 case was entirely focused on role speculation, to the point you put out all of one actual bit of scumhunting against me - part of a massive misinterpretation or misrepresentation of my play toward Pietro?  Where was my "dropping" Ethan (whose wrongness to that point was almost entirely rooted in his attack on me) then?

The rest of your Day 3 case on me is "why didn't you protect the obvious fakeclaim" (even if he did turn out town - btw, I would have *died* protecting that singularly worthless "Townie," which you would know if you'd actually bothered to read my post today) and "his power level is ovar 9000!", which is idiotic coming from a REVIVER IN A GAME THAT ALREADY HAD A FLIPPED REVIVER!  God.  YOU of all people building a case based on setup looks even more absurd in retrospect.

Now on Day 4 you dedicate the largest part of your post to attacking me when I've already announced a slowkill.  Notice how we're no longer in LYLO?  That means a theoretical Scum!Hadley would have nothing to gain from surviving One More Day and then being lynched tomorrow, except for a reference to a truly terrible Spider-Man comic.  Not to mention that I wasn't exactly feeling the pressure at the end of Day 3, since Scum Hayles and your august self were the only two to bring (weak sauce) cases against me and nobody seemed to be biting.  Needless to say, your pet theory from yesterday, Serial Killer!Hadley, would be incredibly moronic to claim the slowkill and get himself lynched on Day 5.

-----

Moving on.

I think O'Malley comes in a distant third in apparent scummyness right now, but I'll give you that he's the only person who looks like Scum who isn't involved in Hargreaves's investigations.

I'd especially highlight the fact O'Malley TWICE promised to be around at deadline and then wasn't.

Also, mathematically speaking, if we have 3 Millers, 3 detectable Scum and 1 Godfather, and both Jack and Nikolai are cleared, then O'Malley *must* be the Scum who claimed Miller.  Since his claim was in the interests of getting a powerful townie (Hellsnake) lynched, it's already the shakiest.

-----

At this point, cases rooted in the first two days (as yours on Kyle/Sopko is) look very close to meaningless to me.  By Day 3 when the situation was both more critical and clearer, he was contributing a lot.

I'd take your offense at Kyle/Sopko's lynch the slowkill suggestion more seriously if a) anyone had seriously considered voting that way, INCLUDING HIM, or b) you hadn't devoted the lion's share of a long post to attacking a claimed slowkill.

So yeah.

-----

Right now, I consider Sam Hargreaves's roleclear of you and Nicolai the only scumtell he's given off.  Frankly, I find it very difficult to believe you're town after the way you've played these last two days, and Nicolai looked even worse to me as of the end of Day 3.

But a gambit that seems like it would have to involve at least two, if not all three of the probable three remaining Scum?  That's marginally more difficult to believe even than that you're innocent.

As for Hargreaves outing your role?  What did you have to gain from hiding it at this point?  If you hadn't come in and said "BTW I can't do this anymore," you might have sucked a nightkill from panicked Scum/SK, perhaps saving one of our confirmed Townies or a role that still functioned.

-----

Finally, on the two lurkers, I was going to ask why you think Nikolai (whose player has been around) has an excuse but Andrews (whose player was NOT around) did not.  When Andrews has been around I think his content has been much better.

But then I realized you probably meant Hargreaves's investigation.  So agreed, reluctantly.

-----

Rereading your post, Nathan, the only thing that looks truly absurd and scummy is your weird attack on me.

Except...

Previously you claimed you came to Marbury as a journalist, due to visions of a lone killer haunting your dreams.  Now you're saying that WASN'T why you came to Marbury, you did so because it has been more of an abnormality than any other place on Earth.  Normally I'd write this off as "oh, lying flavor to cover a role."

Except, you had previously used that AS PART OF YOUR ATTEMPT TO PUSH A DAY 3 SERIAL KILLER TRAIN ON ME.  In LYLO.

15

Forum Games / Re: Cthulu Mafia - Day 4

« on: May 03, 2010, 10:43:46 PM »

:sigh:  Strike the "don't" from the last sentence of paragraph six of my post.

Also, just noticed my evil grin emoticon got hijacked by the regular smile one.  Ah, well.  Such is (briefly remaining) life.

16

Forum Games / Re: Cthulu Mafia - Day 4

« on: May 03, 2010, 10:40:45 PM »

Quick post to get this info out there, because I won't have time until late tonight.

Last night I protected Samuel Hargreaves, because I didn't want to lose his apparent information on Nicolai (or the chance to pin down 1-2 scum in a lie if he wasn't telling the truth.)  I'd prefer to take my Night 2 target with me to my grave.

Speaking of which, that won't be a long wait.  I was the target of the (a?) slowkill and am going to die tonight.  Similar flavor to what the original Mr. Bike got - mysterious, half-remembered visitor, and now my personal obsession (The King in Yellow) is going to kill me.

As such, I may as well tell our illustrious Scum that if they used that kill on me to avoid my bulletproof, possibly weakening themselves in some other way... have a big grin and attached middle finger, because I wasn't bulletproof after night 1. ^_^  Heheh.  I hope Town will forgive me for this particular white lie, since despite some "OMG 2 much powar" it doesn't seem to have done any harm, and may have helped.

Mr. Bike the Even Younger is confirmed Town to me.

Jack is almost confirmed Town... but not quite.  We have a claimed rolecop, Nicolai, and reason (pace Hargreaves) to believe he may be Scum.  If the Scum were confident we were out of informational roles, they could most certainly pretend to be cleared to get massive townie cred.  Nonetheless, I think Jack's play has been strong and claiming to be an ex-Miller would be hugely risky for Scum who didn't know every role, which I don't think (certainly hope!) they can't, at this point.

Nicolai still seems the worst to me of our surviving players, but I won't vote for him until Hargreaves chips in.  Then probably Nathan.

Ronbard looks good to me for pointing out a relevant fact against the Hayles fakeclaim, not that I gave anyone time to panic and jump off the copclaim the way they did Pietro. >

Flavor and scumhunting to follow tonight, barring unforeseen incident.

17

Forum Games / Re: Cthulu Mafia - Day 3

« on: May 02, 2010, 01:50:15 AM »

I don't think Hellsnake was the best Night 1 target, Pietro was, by a lot.  And considering you hardly MENTION Hellsnake early on, DO NOT BELIEVE.

Pietro was a shitty Night 2 target as well.  He played like 100% Scum and you would have had extra reason to doubt his Copclaim.  DO NOT BELIEVE.

##UNVOTE

##VOTE Ethan Hayles

That's Hammer.

18

Forum Games / Re: Cthulu Mafia - Day 3

« on: May 02, 2010, 01:47:49 AM »

AAAND there's the almost certain lie.

DO NOT BELIEVE Miller overrides Sanity.

19

Forum Games / Re: Cthulu Mafia - Day 3

« on: May 02, 2010, 01:46:59 AM »

Looking back, I think Nathan is MORE LIKELY to be a philosophical difference, whereas Ethan, where he's been bad, has just been bad (and suspicious).

I think I'm sitting on the following:

Kolmogorov > Hayles > O'Malley = Greaves > Kyle/Sopko > Andrews = Chad

Not enough time to post on those last two, generally "not enough" on the former and "consistently disagree, but not necessarily think is Scum" on the latter.

20

Forum Games / Re: Cthulu Mafia - Day 3

« on: May 02, 2010, 01:35:27 AM »

Looking at it again, he'd only be at L-2 and all the other people I think have looked significantly Scummy are already on him.

##VOTE Nicolai Kolmogorov

Completely torn between trusting someone who I think has been a good Townie to this point, and trusting my own scumhunting, but I just can't let Kolmogorov slip.  He's had so little content and almost all of it is bad, when it isn't regurgitated.

21

Forum Games / Re: Cthulu Mafia - Day 3

« on: May 02, 2010, 01:30:02 AM »

I strongly want to vote Nicolai.  To me he seems the scummiest, but I don't want to put him at L-1 due to Hargreaves' stuff. -_-

22

Forum Games / Re: Cthulu Mafia - Day 3

« on: May 02, 2010, 01:24:44 AM »

KYLE HANDLEY

Day 1/2 case stands as it was.  Attacked Moses on the basis of flavor, then switched to Hellsnake it what seemed like a totally random manner.  I completely disagree that his case on Hellsnake was worth a damn, because on my Hellsnake reread the snake looked good up until his roleclaim and the following shenanigans.

I've said all of this before.

His Day 3 play looks much better and more sensible.  Lots of analysis, multiple well-reasoned cases.  Off the table for today, as far as I'm concerned, since my only serious knock against him is his Day 1/Day 2 switch.

Ninja'd by Jack:

O_o

I'm going to be very upset with the Mod if my seemingly not-even-supernatural bodyguarding ability turns out to have an attached slowkill.

But yeah, I strongly believe it's better if I don't post the name at this point.

23

Forum Games / Re: Cthulu Mafia - Day 3

« on: May 02, 2010, 01:11:58 AM »

O'Malley continues to fall of my radar.  (OOC, ha!)

I believe I've already covered the O'Malley/Hellsnake interaction on Day 1.  In short, I think Hellsnake did one thing clearly wrong before his roleclaim and assorted weirdness, and that's not putting a vote down and defending not putting a vote down.  The initial lack of a vote seems to be the crux of O'Malley's argument against Hellsnake, but it's surrounded by stuff I can either generously call flavorful or otherwise say is just bad reasoning.  Toward the end of the day he switches to Pietro in a post that does have solid analysis on multiple cases.  I'll note that he says he'll be around at deadline, but doesn't post.  In fairness there wasn't much to say at that point.

But whatever, Day 1.

On Day 2, starts off on Pietro and is the first to note Pietro's BS about Ty being useless as a reason to vote him.  He continues to provide solid analysis on multiple cases throughout early day 2, including bringing up some stuff no one else seemed to touch on (like the way Dale and Hayles kept interacting to that point).

To this point I'm thinking, only objection is Day 1 and he's otherwise looking good, an involved townie.

Then, though, he comes with this weak sauce.  This is his Miller claim, which I have no problem with (he immediately delivers flavor, which I think is good because it lets us look for inconsistencies).  O'Malley drops his vote on Hellsnake and bases his case on a combination of Hellsnake's "rolefish" (which, I swear, did no one else but me understand what he was doing there once he claimed Miller?) and then, ironically, on Moses's information - the very thing Hellsnake's miller claim was to try to puzzle out.  O'Malley doesn't seem to consider the possibility of a Godfather, even though almost every game has one, and instead says three Millers is one Miller too many.  (I think four is, for the record.)

A mistake or a Scummy action?  It looks Scummier to me because that's O'Malley's last contribution of the day (Hellsnake, of course, goes on to get lynched), and then on Day 3 defends his very bad reason for making that switch.

In the same post he says Miller is a null tell "unless Daniels and Kolmogorov are both Scum," again ignoring the Godfather stuff - this time AFTER others went over it on Day 2.   I note that he seems very eager to silence this line of inquiry, mentioning it again in a later post.  Chad is also in on this.  I... do not agree that Moses's information was useless.  I can see AT LEAST one scenario that fits it, if not two.  Flipflops on Ronbard, first saying Ronald doesn't look as bad, then in his next post saying he still thinks there's something between Ronald and Ethan (votes for Ethan).

Day 2 end and Day 3 look very shaky to me, downright Scummy at times but probably not as bad as the other two?

Multiple ninjas!  Jack's is the most relevant.

Jack, I did not target you, if that's what you're asking.  I do not wish to say who I did target, however, because if the person I targeted is NOT Scum, I'm almost certain they have an informational role!

24

Forum Games / Re: Cthulu Mafia - Day 3

« on: May 01, 2010, 11:54:58 PM »

Nicolai Kolmogorov.  In Soviet Russia, Town Lurks?  Let's see.

The most prominent case against Kolmogorov is that he simply hasn't been around much - a single, solitary post on Day 1.

Looking at that - yes, I hate to look at Day 1, but let's look at it anyway for at least this much - we never DID get an explanation of Kolmogorov saying he tutored Chad.  There was mention of player meta behind this statement, but does that just mean he was speculating on player meta in a flavorful way?  We've yet to find out.  The rest of the post, in which he lands on the Tyrone train, is a whole lot of flavor surrounding repeats of other people's arguments.

Kolmogorov initially appears to be set for more near-zero Day 2 presence, promising to read the topic and post in "a couple hours."  Instead he doesn't return for more than 24 hours.  When he does, he settles his vote on Pietro, which obviously I thought was a good call, but he gives not a single iota of REASON for doing so.  This looks terrible to me when I reread it, especially knowing that Pietro was, all evidence to the contrary, Town.  In fact, when Kolmogorov does actually comment on Pietro, he seems to think he's playing about like a Cop would.

Why is that important?  Because in addition to the lack of a case on the person he's voting for, look at the timing.  Kolmogorov only contributes on Day 2 AFTER the Two Town Trains already formed and picked up a full head of steam.  In other words, by the time he put his opinion in (despite giving almost no actual opinion on the person he ended up voting), by the time he actually participated in the thread in a meaningful way, we were for all intents and purposes LOCKED IN TO A TOWNIE LYNCH.

Then the Cult Leader kerfluffle.  Previously, Kolmogorov seemed to recognize that alignment-switching roles were out.  But then he reacts to Hellsnake as though such roles are back on the table.  He switches and votes for Hellsnake right after that, saying the snake's role is unbelievable due to power level.  This comes right after the Cult Leader line, so it's not hard to read it as a continuation of that, though in fairness that's not explicit.

I've already mentioned the MAJOR problem I have with people voting based on what they think is too powerful.  Same applies here as to Nathan's case on me, except in this case we have an actual flip backing up that this is a bad idea.

Kolmogorov has only one major post here on Day 3 (shades of Day 1?).  (His first post is just complying with confirmed-townie Moses's request to post who he investigated.)

He mentions how "Hellsnake was terrible for several reasons beyond his role" - a position several people, most notably also Kyle, have advanced, and one which I strongly disagreed with.  Remember my last post of Day 2 where I was going to do a huge analysis of Pietro and Hellsnake and had to rushpost the summary of it?  IMO, Hellsnake actually contributed a lot and scumhunted well prior to his roleclaim.  The only legit case on him was the sloppiness of how he went about that claim, and even that turned out to be wrong.  I'll chock this up to philosophical differences, or maybe not doing the same degree of in-depth reread with that focus.

Kolmogorov doesn't like how Ethan selectively remembered the Cult Leader stuff.  Well, if we're not liking inattentiveness, how about missing which player Ethan was even attacking re: Cult Leader in the first place?  It was me, not Jack.

Like Kolmogorov I have trouble getting a read on O'Malley/O'Excal.  UNLIKE Kolmogorov, I don't believe all four of our "Millers" are innocent and I'm not inclined to just throw out Moses's investigation from Night 1/Day 2.  We still have a scenario that fits his numbers:

Three Millers, Three Scum, One Godfather.  Six from the Outside (the three Millers and three regular Scum), Four from the Inside (Three regular Scum and the Godfather).  Didn't someone else say they were nearly certain a Godfather exists?

If that's the case, one of the four claimed Millers would be Scum.  It can't be Hellsnake, who is dead town.  Daniels looks the best of the three surviving Millers to me, Kolmogorov the worst (so far; O'Malley to follow after dinner).

Ethan looks better to me because Kolmogorov looks like the worse of the two, but I could also see Kolmogorov as being bussed.

I see Hargreaves STRONGLY believes Kolmogorov to be Town and implies there's role info backing that up, though?  Hargreaves has looked good to me so far so I'm inclined to listen, but Kolmogorov looks really bad on this reread.

25

Forum Games / Re: Cthulu Mafia - Day 3

« on: May 01, 2010, 11:11:45 PM »

Quick note: Seamus and Kyle.  (Although from glancing at the topic Kyle looks good so far today, so whatever.)

I will note that three of the four people I'm most suspicious of (Hayles, Greaves, Handley), are all on the third!  Not sure what to make of that.