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Messages - Carthrat

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201
Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 2
« on: September 17, 2010, 07:04:25 AM »
My point with the active lurker comment is that you kinda sidled by right then with a lazy vote on Tanaka for no reason. That's not content, opinion was not backed up by really anything except 'he's slimy and he's doing stuff!' So yeah!

Yes your OBVIOUS HIDING TRICKS are OBVIOUS kthx, need I relink to that completely hilarious video to summarize my stance?

202
Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 2
« on: September 17, 2010, 05:37:59 AM »
I simply will not move away from the blindingly obvious cases. There is Helga, as I discussed earlier; I don't want to just excuse her for vanishing yesterday (as I said before, it would have been quite trivial and non-time-consuming to post something. I can't believe she couldn't have found the time somewhere.) In her last post she accepted a fairly strong counterpoint against her case on Li, then didn't actually re-evaluate things in the name of being 'purposeful'. Yeah this is mafia and there's a place for stubborness, but when a key segment of your case falls out from under you...

There is also Leia, who's last post seems rather lazy, since it's basically "I think Tanaka's bad, for, uh, some reason. Vote!!1" That is actually worse than Helga I must admit, who appears to be making some attempt to piece an actual case together. Yeaaah.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Leia, and you people tell me I'm active lurking? Uh.

Tohsaka is also amongst the ranks of lurkers. Her only post yesterday had basically wrong facts in it, same as the mistake Tanaka made... her case was on empty unvotes, which I guess is kind of not horrible, as long as it's actually true. She did look rather lazy though, pretty much stealing Tanaka's case wholesale, so. Kinda would lynch her too.

Remember, posting does not actually undo lurker status! Once gained, IT REMAINS WITH YOU FOREVER.

I would much rather focus on the people who do such obvious hiding tricks, it is statistically more likely to produce scum. At least, I think it is. I'll compile records sometime.

I don't like the way Li presents a case on me, obviously, it grates to be told 'you haven't commented on ANYTHING ELSE', which seems like a nice way of ignoring what I have said as though it's irrelevant. Maya has pointed out that much of the player base has lurked, yet targets Tron, who isn't- I can't get behind that. I really do view it as the single most important thing to start lynching people for come day 2 (in conjunction with whatever content they have being poor, duh.) Same kinda deal to Tanaka, Li has been around and that excludes him from my potentials, even if he has some fixation on nailing me to the wall for no reason.

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Forum Games / Re: Nomic: TROTLR: Turn 3 (Mageykins)
« on: September 16, 2010, 12:04:16 PM »
Doesn't actually stop us talking, but eh.

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Forum Games / Re: Nomic: TROTLR: Turn 3 (Mageykins)
« on: September 16, 2010, 08:09:56 AM »
Yet another revision!

Assault is basically punching another player in the face and making him lose points. I clarified stuff about the order of resolution and cleaned up the assault text a bit (though I thought it was all pretty clear.)

304. Each player has four statistics, denoted as follows: Attack, Defense, Intelligence, and Spirit. Each of the values begins at 1, and on the inception of this rule, each player shall be awarded 10 additional points to spread between his statistics. When assigning these points, no statistic can be raised above 5. These points must be assigned immediately, and play will not recommence until this is done. The values are to be made public, and posted in the opening post of any and all Nomic threads.

During the proposal phase of each turn, each player may also take one of these additional options. These options are PM'd to the mod, to be revealed and enacted at the end of the proposal phase, before voting commences.

Assault: Select a player. Your opponent will lose 1d6+Your attack-His Defense points. The mod will roll dice and adjust the totals. (1d6 means a six-sided die, the sides consisting of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. Results will be taken from the side facing upwards after the die has been rolled. The mod may use a stand-in for the die, such as HATBOT, at his discretion, as long as it provides essentially the same sort of results.)
Protect: Select a player. Add your defense score to his defense score until your next turn. You are permitted to target yourself with this ability, as well, effectively doubling your defense.

Legislative Maneuvers: You may not use this ability during your own turn.

Select a player. The mod will roll 1d6 for each of you, and add the results to your corresponding Intelligence scores.

If your roll is lower, you suffer from an Injunction. This lasts until the beginning of your next turn, and you may not use Legislative Maneuvers while you are under an Injunction. In the proposal phase of your next turn, you do nothing. In the voting phase of your next turn, nothing happens.

If your roll is tied, nothing happens.

If your roll is higher, you can order the other player to vote in whatever manner you choose once, and he must comply. This ability must be used before your next turn, and may not be used during your turn.

Energize: Select a player. You may add your Spirit score to their Intelligence or Assault until the beginning of your next turn. This player is considered Energized. A player can only be Energized by one other player at a time. Further attempts to Energize that player fail until the first instance expires.

The actions are resolved in the following order- Protect, Energize, Attack, Legislative Maneuvers, meaning that a player who has energized or protected another will have this ability take effect before any other actions are done. When multiple players select the same option, they will be resolved simultaneously.

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Forum Games / Re: Nomic: TROTLR: Turn 3 (Mageykins)
« on: September 16, 2010, 07:26:29 AM »
Well, assault doesn't worry much about ties- if his defence roll is equal to or greater than your attack roll, you don't get hurt.

With legislative maneuvers, a tie just means nothing happens. Did you mean something else?

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Forum Games / Re: Nomic: TROTLR: Turn 3 (Mageykins)
« on: September 16, 2010, 05:07:55 AM »
@Mage: The game isn't one that can actually be won via straight democracy. Eventually, means must be introduced that enable players to gain clear leads over each other- and this can't actually be done if the other players can just get together and go 'I vote for the guy that's winning to lose'. A rule that does stuff to the voting system is, in my mind, inevitable.

@Excal: I think I see your point, now.

I've changed this rule so each player does something every turn; so that Maneuvers are limited if you get hit with an injunction, and so the rule actually functions without conflicting with other mutable rules.

304.Each player has four statistics, denoted as follows: Attack, Defense, Intelligence, and Spirit. Each of the values begins at 1, and on the inception of this rule, each player shall be awarded 10 additional points to spread between his statistics. When assigning these points, no statistic can be raised above 5. These points must be assigned immediately, and play will not recommence until this is done. The values are to be made public, and posted in the opening post of any and all Nomic threads.

During the proposal phase of each turn, each player may also take one of these additional options. These options are PM'd to the mod, to be revealed and enacted at the end of the proposal phase, before voting commences.

Assault: Select a player. Your opponent will lose 1d6+Your attack-His Defense points. The mod will roll dice and adjust the totals. (1d6 means a six-sided die, the sides consisting of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. Results will be taken from the side facing upwards after the die has been rolled. The mod may use a stand-in for the die, such as HATBOT, at his discretion.)
Protect: Select a player. Add your defense score to his defense score until your next turn. You are permitted to target yourself with this ability, as well, effectively doubling your defense.

Legislative Maneuvers: You may not use this ability during your own turn.

Select a player. The mod will roll 1d6 for each of you, and add the results to your corresponding Intelligence scores.

If your roll is lower, you suffer from an Injunction. This lasts until the beginning of your next turn, and you may not use Legislative Maneuvers while you are under an Injunction. In the proposal phase of your next turn, you do nothing. In the voting phase of your next turn, nothing happens.

If your roll is tied, nothing happens.

If your roll is higher, you can order the other player to vote in whatever manner you choose once, and he must comply. This ability must be used before your next turn, and may not be used during your turn.

Energize: Select a player. You may add your Spirit score to their Intelligence or Assault until the beginning of your next turn. This player is considered Energized. A player can only be Energized by one other player at a time. Further attempts to Energize that player fail until the first instance expires.

The actions are resolved in the following order- Protect, Energize, Attack, Legislative Maneuvers, meaning that a player who has energized or protected another will have this ability take effect before any other actions are done. When multiple players select the same option, they will be resolved simultaneously.

207
Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 2
« on: September 16, 2010, 04:31:11 AM »
zuh rpmode disengage

soooooo uh Helen didn't post anything meaningful yesterday at all!
 
Even Leia at least voted.

Um.

##Vote: Helen

Yeah. Replacement nothing. There was like a single page when you subbed in. One page. It would've taken all of ten minutes to read it and say *something* and I don't buy you didn't have any time at all to do at least that. There is a certain amount of slack offered to replacements, I am aware. And then there are people who blatantly abuse that status to get away with things like this.

Extra points for calling me out for lurking today (this is a LIE, what)- also note that she accuses Li of just 'Leaving' at some point, which.. seems stupid? Li was around as much as anyone during day 1, so I don't see nonposting as an acceptable charge against him/her/whatever. Don't much like how she goes 'look at Mai!' and then.. doesn't do it herself, either.

Quote from: Helga
Talk about trying to fly under the radar, right?

Yeah, Helga brought this up a lot against people who it clearly does not apply against, the only person who would fit this criteria that she discusses is Leia. I am also willing to consider voting Leia for lurking as well! But Helga seems clearly worse at this point, she's slinging a lot of mud in attempt to paint the situation as something that it is not.

208
Forum Games / Re: Nomic: TROTLR: Turn 3 (Mageykins)
« on: September 15, 2010, 11:38:01 AM »
I'm not exactly sure what you mean?

209
Forum Games / Re: Nomic: TROTLR: Turn 3 (Mageykins)
« on: September 15, 2010, 02:35:24 AM »
Contracts, eh?

I think they would be a seperate law that isn't explicitly tied to this one, so you can make contracts based on the presentation of laws, votes, hell, even what you just say in discussion, if you want. But I'd be for a rule like that, yeah.

I had players do it when they take their turns, but you know I might just make it get assigned at the start of each round. Will sway to popular opinion here...

Energize isn't weak since it can make your attacks more likely to succeed- I agree with Excal. It's a very powerful thing to use in conjunction with a teammate.

210
Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 1
« on: September 14, 2010, 10:12:11 AM »
Ano.. Tanaka-san... please don't look at me like that. That Margatroid-san only had the one outfit for me! It's not like I wouldn't mind some real clothes...

Also, what is an empty unvote? Is that when you unvote and don't vote again? I voted! I didn't want to but everyone is doing it! I voted for Tron (are you listening, Asuka-san?) because her rapid backpedaling and fencing around with Maya seems so defensive! And yet appears to be trying to please her in such a slimy way! I don't like that, okay? I've had it with guys and girls who try to be real nice to you but then BAM they're trying to take over the world!

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Forum Games / Re: Nomic: TROTLR: Turn 3 (Mageykins)
« on: September 14, 2010, 09:45:09 AM »
Oh that's actually correct, duh. Ok!

<-->

304. Each player has four statistics, denoted as follows: Attack, Defense, Intelligence, and Spirit. Each of the values begins at 1, and on the inception of this rule, each player shall be awarded 10 additional points to spread between his statistics. When assigning these points, no statistic can be raised above 5. These points must be assigned immediately, and play will not recommence until this is done. The values are to be made public, and posted in the opening post of any and all Nomic threads.

When making a proposal for a rule-change on his turn, each player may also take one of these additional options.

Assault: Select a player. The mod will roll 1d6 and add it to your attack score, then subtract your opponents defense score from the result. Your opponent will have the result deducted from his score.
Protect: Select a player. Add your defense score to his defense score until your next turn. You are permitted to target yourself with this ability, as well, effectively doubling your defense.

Legislative Maneuvers: Select a player. The mod will roll 1d6 for each of you, and add the results to your corresponding Intelligence scores.

If your roll is lower , you suffer from an Injunction- you may not make a proposal this turn, and play passes to the next player.

If your roll is tied, nothing happens.

If your roll is higher, you can order the other player to vote in whatever manner you choose once, and he must comply. This ability must be used before your next turn, and may not be used during your turn.

Energize: Select a player. You may add your Spirit score to their Intelligence or Assault until the beginning of your next turn. This player is considered Energized. A player can only be Energized by one other player at a time. Further attempts to Energize that player fail until the first instance expires.

<-->

Okay, so this is pretty complex and big and that's why I wanted to split it up! I came up with the last two orders on the fly. I think, overall, this system should lead to some interesting diplomacy between the different players, and actually put some decision-making into the game beyond 'vote/don't vote'. None of these are overwhelmingly powerful, I believe. The strongest potential outcome is from Legislative Manuevering, but the risk makes it a bit of a gamble. Willing to consider changing the details, or developing new options if anyone can show me that this is horrifically imbalanced.

It is indeed designed to encourage factionalism and teamplay, by the way.

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Forum Games / Re: Nomic: TROTLR: Turn 3 (Mageykins)
« on: September 14, 2010, 06:29:31 AM »
304. Players may not have negative points. All players with negative points at the onset of this rule will have their score set to zero. Any point deductions that would result in a player having less than zero points will instead reduce it to zero.

So as people might have guessed, I have a strong distaste for penalizing players for not making the coolest rules. If I could I would wrap this up with another scoring rule that prevents people losing points for failed proposals. As it is, I think it's a strong candidate for immutability.

I have two other proposals that I may switch to should this not generate sufficient interest. They run along the following lines;

-A system by which each player gains a series of RPG-style stats; Attack, Defence, Intelligence, and Wisdom, or something like that. I wouldn't actually institute any use for this rules, simply the assignation of points (probably start each player at some arbitrary value and give them a few extra points to spend.) I would leave it to later players to determine how these stats interact with the game.

-A system that causes each player to become a producer of a certain commodity. Everyone would select an item, like, I dunno, 'coal', 'magical stars', 'books' or whatever, and would be able to put a number of these into their possession at the beginning of each new round of play. Again, I wouldn't define a use for them- I'd pass that duty onto the next player.

213
Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 1
« on: September 14, 2010, 04:20:15 AM »
Ngh! Get... off... her!

##Unvote: Asuka

Can't we all just get along?

No?

Well, fine! Be idiots! It's not even like the world will end or anything if we don't fight, so I don't even get it this time! Is there a Nagi here? Huh? You're all saying someone is bad, but how do you know, huh? So stupid!

Chiaki-san, I don't like how you're acting as though you want to be part of the conflict, but you're also saying you won't put your chips down until the end. Where you might not even be here! That's a very Nagi-esque thing to do, backing off to let others do the dirty work!

And you! You! Yes, you, Tron Bonne-san! I don't really know where Maya's coming from or anything, but you're really backing into a wall, aren't you? And now you're just doing whatever she says. It's like you really want to get into her good books, while pretending you're looking for bad people along with the rest of us! I don't like that. That's really slimy and suspicious! ##Vote: Tron Bonne

Mou, if only the president was here... even Suzushiro would sort this out right away... anyway, I'm sure the people who aren't here right now have perfectly good reasons! Like not wanting to get into a pointless, silly brawl, or doing last-minute cramming, or something like that. Besides, they'll be here for assembly later, right? Right?

214
Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 1
« on: September 13, 2010, 03:53:54 AM »
Ah, mou! Why are all you fighting? That's stupid! There's no reason to do it... wait, is this another one of Nagi's tricks?

Look, nobody do anything rash and dangerous, alright? Asuka-chan, I think you're being a bit hasty, coming right out of the gate like that. You need to calm down, okay? I'll help you, shhh, it's gonna be okay!

Wait no MIKOTO

##Vote: Asuka

215
Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia
« on: September 11, 2010, 02:36:39 AM »
Work, work~

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Forum Games / Re: Nomic: TROTLR: Turn 3 (Mageykins)
« on: September 10, 2010, 04:19:00 PM »
Mod should probably clear up some words there, since rounds are only implied to = turns and stuff. Isn't actually mentioned what happens in the proposal and voting stages, either!

Yeah this is being anal but it's nomic, so. <_<

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Forum Games / Re: Nomic: TROTLR: Turn 3 (Mageykins)
« on: September 10, 2010, 03:04:26 PM »
You know, I have a question

Where is it said in the rules that each player takes a turn proposing a rule-change?

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Forum Games / Re: Nomic: TROTLR: Turn 3 (Mageykins)
« on: September 10, 2010, 06:44:27 AM »
I'd prefer that to making it slower, although I confess that the whole area bores me. I think I'd rather see rules that add new mechanics or fundamentally change the way the game is played more than these kinds of rules.

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Forum Games / Re: Nomic: TROTLR: Turn 2 (Bard-chu~)
« on: September 09, 2010, 02:20:26 AM »
Quote from: Bard
Abstain is weak. Abstain is not making use of your right as an eligible voter. Abstain makes you no better than any number of people that are reading along and could discuss alongside us. Abstain means you abandon your right as eligible voter and it should not happen! People should vote as much as they can! Votes make your position clear.

So why're we letting people do it, again? >_>

I'm not even sure this actually works, abstaining means you don't vote so would that still contradict the earlier rule?

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Forum Games / Re: Nomic: TROTLR: Turn 1 (Excal!)
« on: September 08, 2010, 08:19:43 AM »
Tonfa brings up another side of it.

Although I am valiantly trying to actually discuss the rule, my overwhelming reaction to it, really, is who cares?

221
Forum Games / Re: Nomic: TROTLR: Turn 1 (Excal!)
« on: September 08, 2010, 03:38:45 AM »
I wish that was true, but I remain skeptical.

222
Forum Games / Re: Nomic: TROTLR: Turn 1 (Excal!)
« on: September 08, 2010, 03:23:24 AM »
I assume it will be harder to get interesting things passed if it is harder to pass things in general. This makes me sad and I would rather it's more than less likely, all other things being equal, that things get through.

This is not a matter of dramatizing or flailing, either. If someone is waffly then it sucks for them. Since votes need a majority to pass as it is, I think it's good to give them a little extra push in terms of the vote that the proposer gets to have.

If wishywashy people don't vote, that's their problem. I want to be as harsh as possible on nonattendance.

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Forum Games / Re: Nomic: TROTLR: Turn 1 (Excal!)
« on: September 08, 2010, 03:00:39 AM »
Also, I really hate things that skew the system in favour of not passing proposals. Why is this desirable? Why do we want to make it even harder to get anything interesting passed?

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Forum Games / Re: Nomic: TROTLR: Turn 1 (Excal!)
« on: September 08, 2010, 02:58:08 AM »
Then that guy should have voted.

Sorry, but I guess I see that as a feature, not a bug.

225
Forum Games / Re: Nomic: TROTLR: Turn 1 (Excal!)
« on: September 08, 2010, 02:30:46 AM »
I don't like this since it's redundant.

We currently have 6 players. 4 need to vote yes to pass something, in general. We assume the proposer always votes yes, so 3 other players must vote yes, too.

This is exactly the same as to what would happen if the proposer couldn't vote; 3 other players must still vote yes for it to win.

I don't get the hate on ties, since ties aren't actually ties; the proposer loses and his rule is not passed!

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