Messages

251

Forum Games / Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia

« on: February 08, 2008, 01:54:02 PM »

I think I'll go with Excal.

##Vote: Excal

I don't like how he votes for CPU's replacement. Though the concerns are valid enough, Drac hasn't been around that much and it's his first game here; if we're voting for 'lurkers' why not go for Yakumo who replaced the ever-silent OK and likewise is yet to produce much of value? Yakumo's content so far appears to be of announcing that he's voting for the 'sole remaining lurker' now that he's here... except he doesn't participate all that much himself aside from making a post where he talks of how he isn't quite sure of... just about any issue he mentions. I wouldn't call his content above Drac's, just yet.

And then, there's the other stuff re: Excal I mentioned earlier. Solid? Hardly. But I just don't feel at ease leaving around someone who keeps on going "Well, when I was scum...."

252

Forum Games / Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia

« on: February 08, 2008, 09:38:10 AM »

Alex's claim will be verified day 2 or he's a LYING SCUM, so ##Unvote: Alex

Otter's flip as third party wasn't really expected. It seemed more likely he was scumbuddies with Alex, which obviously can't be now. Bah. Alex, why must you always seem so scummy early on?

Re: Cid and Governer use. I was actually leaning towards having him prove his claim, back when he claimed. It was not only the trade off between lynching a lurker and getting a 'confirmed townie' out of the deal. See, Cid had felt off to me the whole game. But when I look for his Touhou scumtells, they just aren't present. I have no idea whether he corrected them, or happens to be town. Not believing him but having nothing to go on, the best idea I've had so far was trying to catch him in a lie. Since I expect him to be scum, and I don't expect scum to have a governor-like ability, if he can't produce results... that's a success, right there, and we lynch him. But I'm not about to crusade over this with no actual evidence and lynches being key to town. Yes, that pretty much means I don't see much in Alex's case about Cid and politicizing extensions or whatever.

What else jumps out to me? What seems to be Excal arguing from a scum's POV. The following post is where is looks the most glaring to me: http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=362.msg7711#msg7711 . Not sure what to make of this, except remaining wary towards Excal. His flailing when questioned by VSM are also suspicious.

Mods, can we get an updated votecount?

253

Forum Games / Re: World of Warcraft Mafia - Main Topic

« on: February 07, 2008, 06:06:03 PM »

Okay. QR and LD posted!

LD: Looking at him in that context meant going over Alex's posts and interaction, beyond the example you're citing. From your words, you disagreed with his reasoning there, correct? That's as good a reason as any, early on into the game, to take a deeper look at a person beyond the immediate issue, and either clear them of suspicion for yourself (for the time being, at least) or lay out a case for him and watch/examine his defense. And the context of that question was you saying you essentially had nothing to look at besides smodge. There weren't better cases, I'll agree. But no cases whatsoever?

Your response to Tom just felt off, it's something in the tone. It seems to imply that you've made a mistake, and no one may question that it was actually a slip. Nope, nothing like that, just a mistake. And then you're relying on newbie defense/not thinking things through/forgetting/whatever in a game where this is pretty much key. The combination of those two factors didn't sit well with me, and still doesn't.

I didn't say you were looking for a new target in the sense of a target you haven't named before. I meant new in the sense of someone you haven't voted for before. Namely, myself. And that you did this but hadn't actually committed to a vote just makes you look bad in my eyes. Then again, I just might be biased, so that's nowhere near the main reason I voted for you.

Not knowing where exactly I am... sure, I'll bite, though it's easily verifiable. The bigger problem I had here, really, was that you said:

He hasn't posted since noon yesterday and I know he's been posting to VtM, soooo. Yeah.

My emphasis. You seemed to ignore me saying in my post to you, the one you're replying to, that at the time I was posting to VtM, WoW was closed for the night phase. If you think I'm lying, provide concisive proof (posts can be linked to and have time tags, it's very easy!). If not, please account for the reasoning you used by alluding to my lurkerness despite knowing that comparing the two games in this way was apples and oranges. I can't quite get over people accusing me of lurking for reasons quite clearly beyond my control (over a busy day at work, sure; over something easily-checked like this case, no).

I'm tentatively leaving my vote on you until this particular concern is addressed by you, instead of being brushed off. I can't tell whether you decided it unimportant, or avoided it on purpose because you knew it was a slip you couldn't easily explain away.

QR: ... actually, QR's post mainly agrees with me either implicitely or explicitely. I obviously don't intend to argue with myself, so yeah. I can't really find a fault in the logic used, and my mind hadn't changed since. It does disturb me a bit, quite naturally, but... nah, not enough for a vote. But keep on talking! Please comment on the LD case/LD's defense, in particular. I know I can be easily provoked when people attack me for lurking while sleeping (it's happened so many times already, in so many games) that I'm always interested in how other people perceive any arguments I make that are related to this issue somehow. And this isn't a QR-only party; I invite everyone to comment here.

254

Forum Games / Re: World of Warcraft Mafia - Main Topic

« on: February 07, 2008, 01:39:30 PM »

At this point I won't be voting for anyone, then, Rat. I don't like several facets of Tom and Alex (for different reasons), but they act that way a lot as town (exclusively so, in fact, for the Tom I've seen so far). One thing odd about Tom (besides the usual) is that he's doing his summary that he thinks isn't helping anyone, openly stating as much... and he lists Ciato there. You know, poor, confirmed townie due to flip at death Ciato. Why exactly is he posting thoughts on her at this stage? Weird, weird, weird. Smodge's... everything language skills-related is calling to the homicidal, culling side of me, but I violently suppress those deep urges.

Had QR been here I would vote for her to bring her halfway to hammer and thus make her realize that she needs to weigh in more. However, I have no reason to suspect she is indeed here at this time, so that can wait. Especially if LD responds in a way that sits well with me, thus freeing up my vote on her.

I don't think I would be voting for you now. This is not an attempt to suck up to you; you know full well how I believe that we think alike on many subjects. By examining your arguments in that light, I get to judge your townness by how much they deviate from what I would myself consider reasonable. In any case, I lack enough data on you thus far to suspect you, and if you ARE town then I would be losing someone who thinks like I do to a mislynch. I'm quite willing to ignore Alex's 'Rat is always scum' for now.

255

Forum Games / Re: World of Warcraft Mafia - Main Topic

« on: February 07, 2008, 01:19:31 PM »

Whoo, caught up. Tom, I think I'm with Rat in that it's not everyone else that needs to change, but you. Using arguments along the lines of 'I've done this and was town several times, clearly this isn't a scumtell' is incorrect, because you're using your private case to generalize things, while Alex (and Rat&smodge, to a point) are seeing you as the exception to the rule rather than proof of it. Basically, in past games, you've been town despite looking scummy, so using that scummy-seeming behavior to support your case is a tad shaky, to say the least.

Discussion is interesting, at last. I'll still sit on LD with my vote to remind her she needs to respond to my concerns (and I'm decidedly not making a stern face at her not posting back at what's probably 4am for her or whatever, but it takes a lot of willpower).

256

Forum Games / Re: World of Warcraft Mafia - Main Topic

« on: February 07, 2008, 11:37:32 AM »

Huh. I parsed this sentence entirely differently, and "The reason I am not producing content is not because I am scum, it is because I have nothing really to produce." doesn't really jump at me as "Hay I'm not scum guys" but as a "I have nothing to produce, being scum or not has nothing to do with that."

Well, in that case, I don't really want to pursue anything against Alex since he wasn't alone in reading Tom's post that way. I still disagree that it's the way Tom intended his post to be read, though, and would like Tom himself to weigh in here. "is not because I'm scum, but <second clause goes here>" is hardly an "I'm not scum" claim, so Alex does seem to be overstating his case. He often does that, though, so eh.

Also. Tom, there's nothing preventing you from looking for a case yourself. If it's too quiet, then people certainly won't be posting more if everyone shares your outlook. Part of the criticism I had for LD applies to you as well, so yeah.

257

Forum Games / Re: World of Warcraft Mafia - Main Topic

« on: February 07, 2008, 11:29:15 AM »

While I agree with Alex re: Tom's relative lack of content and re: Tom's tone...

The "I'm not scum" claim in your last post doesn't help either.

Alex, please show me where he says it or states he's town in his last post. I looked at it and the one before it, and even glanced earlier at the one before that. I'm sorry, but I just don't see it. I have more to say on this, but first, I'd like to see whether I'm missing something or not.

258

Forum Games / Re: World of Warcraft Mafia - Main Topic

« on: February 07, 2008, 07:16:24 AM »

I see, Andrew. That lessens my suspicion but doesn't eliminate it outright. And using one's vote to make people talk is what it's there for, until we have a certain target. In fact, I would have been even less suspicious had LD FoS'd/voted me after unvoting smodge, instead of just mentioning me without actual commitment for a case.

On Tom: Yes, he has been more silent than I'd expect, and yes, it's hilarious to hear smodge of all people (and myself, as I haven't been all that active so far -- just not at lurker level, that's what I dispute) call Tom silent. I would certainly hope it's just an evolution of his gaming style and not a scum tactic; that's how it looks to me, especially considering what Tom's old playing style got him in previous mafia games.

On smodge: Alex looks bad, QR looks impeccable, neither statement says anything as that's just how they usually look to me regardless of alignment (aside from Touhou; what were you thinking, QR?). I don't know if it should worry me that I'm agreeing with smodge on those two. And him casting his eyes on LD makes me frown since smodge is leaving scumtells/smodge always does it and is town... bah, I keep on weighing those two.

Whatever. I don't want this day to be just about smodge. Let's hear from LD, and if she can answer to my satisfaction.

259

Forum Games / Re: World of Warcraft Mafia - Main Topic

« on: February 07, 2008, 06:22:41 AM »

Well. That's an inauspicious start.

Smodge better know he's in for some posting, but he's not the only one whom I find puzzling, so I'll focus on Lady Door, myself. First of all, lurker? Me? Where do you come off saying that? Really, is it too much to ask not to expect me to post while I sleep or while there's hammer and thus a night phase?

Let's look at your day 2 posts so far:

http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=363.msg7449#msg7449

You're saying Strago and I lurked. Except my 'lurking' took place after I participated (admittedly, in day 1 posting) and then went to bed. Also, the entire second paragraph talks about LAL as an option and discusses candidates... before moving off from it. I don't like the way you're naming me without actually committing to it, even with a FoS or whatever.

The fourth paragraph is likewise puzzling. After already stating she believes smodge seems scummy in paragraph 3, she then goes on to say she understands where he's coming from and disagrees with Alex's original case. And in the end the previous reason smodge looks scummy... no longer is relevant, because what matters is that Ciato didn't like him? Now, I agree that's a perfectly valid reason to demand explanations out of smodge, but what happened to all your previous thoughts for and against his guilt? Do they just magically disappear?

Eh, and you're saying there are no other people to look at? In the same post you're saying you disagree with Alex's reasons for voting smodge day 1? Yeah, it may be an even flimsier reason to vote a person, but that doesn't preclude you from looking at him. So why aren't you? Because you honestly think smodge is scum, or because you're going for the easy target?

http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=363.msg7462#msg7462

The next post, quoted here in its entirety:

... um. Sorry. That's me not paying attention to what a huge difference 2 people missing makes to the number of people it takes to confirm a lynch. 

Bah, smilie won't get c/p'd. Whatever. Seriously, how do you read http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=363.msg7414#msg7414 , the actual post you're basing your vote on (Ciato's death/flip) and miss this mod line: "Perhaps I also should have mentioned, with 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch?"

...on rereading, there's an edit on that post, so it could've been edited before she saw it but not before I did. Hmm, anyone mind confirming this bit for me? For the record, I still think it's puzzling someone would just lose track in a small game where all the previous votes for smodge are on this very same page and the total list of players is just two pages away... but it would be less decisive, so yeah.

http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=363.msg7486#msg7486

LD's third post today. I... don't buy her response to Tom.

Now, however... she both mentions that Alex unvoting puts smodge at -2... and unvotes herself! What. Let's reiterate. Smodge is now at 1 vote! It would take 3 more to lynch him! Why the hell are you removing your vote at this time if you really believe he's guilty (and you say that later in that same post!)?

If you realize you've made a mistake voting for him in the first place (though your response to Tom, again, doesn't sound like you believe that), then how is making another bad move even remotely a good idea? Unless you're flailing. And you indeed hurriedly look for another target. Me? Why are you worried about not hearing from me at 5:26am, pray tell?

I'm... still worried about having not heard from Corwin at this point, though. He hasn't posted since noon yesterday and I know he's been posting to VtM, soooo. Yeah.

YES. I was posting in VtM where there had been no hammer/night phase during my waking hours. And you know, reading this third post was what made me type all that up, because VtM had a lengthy, heated discussion over extensions, and the use of timelines was brought up. I know I commented on mine being different from the US ones. I know you read those posts while making a comprehensive read of the thread to support a case on Alex. So where does the disconnect come from?

##Vote: Lady Door

Make with the explanations yourself, why don't you?

260

Forum Games / Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia

« on: February 06, 2008, 06:16:35 PM »

No more broken than an unlimited dayvig in a medium-sized game, I'd say. But sure, let's wait on Cid to post about this.

261

Forum Games / Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia

« on: February 06, 2008, 06:05:20 PM »

To be entirely fair, LD, I allowed for the possibility of using other extensions as needed, though I never actually called for it or claimed it was a particularly bright or necessary idea. Again, it wasn't anything specific, so I suppose it could have easily been missed.

On Cid and the roleclaim. I agree with Otter that letting go of the end-of-day lurker lynch to test Cid's claim is the better option for us. Perhaps I have missed it, but did Cid specifically state that his power works like in the wiki (ie lynch overturned, no flip), or is that QR's own conclusion from his words? If the latter, I would like to hear a clarification from Cid.

I can certainly understand why Cid claimed. He was largely tied with Alex at the time, and Rat said both that he would break the tie in Cid's favor, and specifically asked for Cid to roleclaim (in his defense). With a claimed dayvig power and a stated desire to vig Cid, why wouldn't he claim at this time while he still can? If Rat lied about the dayvig to get a roleclaim out of Cid (and other people?) then when he doesn't use his power, we lynch him. If Cid lied about being able to undo an end-of-day lynch (and at day 1 there's no chance of a roleblock barring total madness), we lynch him. I just don't see the point in lying, here, and everything is quite easily checked, and at a pretty low cost to town. However things go, this would surely be a more productive day 1 to town in quite a while.

Anyway, no one really picked apart my arguments, and I did say I'd vote before Rat's deadline. I would have already done so if he hadn't gone wishy-washy 'one time daykill extension' on us, but might as well do it now. This is likely to be my final vote for the rest of this segment of day 1 due to timezone/sleep issues that have been mentioned to death already (though I should be good for a few more hours if discussion picks up about my reasons for the vote).

##Vote: Alex

You look the scummiest to me. I've given myself time to reflect on my arguments, and have read those of others and the defense of your own actions so far. I have decided the evidence against you is more compelling.

262

Forum Games / Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia

« on: February 06, 2008, 10:32:40 AM »

I think we are in agreement that we haven't hit all the gray areas yet, and I really wouldn't want to have the day's lynch later down the line (at LYLO?) be over them and your behavior/judgement calls instead of actually trying to find and kill scum. If we move on from OH YES/NOES EXTENSION and start discussing even this, now, I'd consider it an improvement.

Rat posts again, so I'll add my own clarification. If we do end up waiting for the claims, I would like us to agree on a set of basic rules for the dayvig that we'll all agree not to break, for it to have any meaning (the meaning is, after all, people putting forth arguments and committing to voting, just as with a real lynch -- and could be made moot it their votes may not carry the same weight, or if the deadline isn't a deadline for certain reasons/people). In particular, I would like Alex and Cid to weigh in on this.

Especially Alex. He mentioned earlier how scum used this tactic (of waiting around for me to post, of not hammering quickly) in Touhou which allowed us to push the lynch over to Nitori. The second paragraph in the following link goes on about this, and from the tone and context I believe he disagrees with town's behavior there quite strongly. Draw your own conclusions:

http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=362.msg7251#msg7251

Yes, what he describes happened, though I disagree with his reasoning; what exactly made Nitori's claim so believable, except it coming first at a time when I was sleeping? Had I been around first, should town have hammered Nitori instead with the same swiftness Alex believes town should have acted with? Likewise, why does he believe that it is good town play to hammer quickly and effectively... except when it's him in the lead for the lynch, where it's suddenly okay to wait ~16 hours on him? He's not above making statements along the lines of 'well Andrew should vig himself if that's the consensus, take one for town', and if memory serves me right it wasn't because he was scum, but because he honestly believed that to be the case. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this one.

Why am I posting so much about Alex and things I dislike in his behavior this game, without actually dropping a vote on him? Like I said in a previous post, I can't shake the feeling some of this is me taking his perceived hypocrisy personally, and OMGUS is not the way I want to vote here. So I'm posting my thoughts, and allowing for people to poke holes in them. If no one does, and nothing else happens, however, I think I'll go vote based on who I think looks scummiest AND whose dayvig is likely to give us the best information.

263

Forum Games / Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia

« on: February 06, 2008, 09:53:02 AM »

Finally caught up. The last two posts bother me, as do the requests to wait on a claim/defense from Alex and Cid earlier. What's the point of setting a rule (set deadline, Rat vigs on it; Rat vigs earlier if we're -1 to hammer) we really intend to follow except, you know, not this time. But surely, tomorrow and onwards! Yeah, whatever. If Alex/Cid are granted this chance to flail/deflect and I happen to end on the vig block day 2, I certainly want to be given the same chance and any arguments for why I shouldn't be while they should are bullshit. (Not that I want or expect this to happen, y'know, but what better way to make a case than using yourself as an example?)

Also, and forgive me for reviving this tired, dead horse just to smack on it some more -- would we even have had time to wait on them to wake up and respond, redecide our case for a vig AND decide on a lynch for an unextended day? Yeah, just couldn't resist mentioning it, especially since I don't like Alex's stance here. He seems to rely on the very thing he doesn't like, pushing off a decision farther and then rushing through things near the day's end/deadline.

But then, I don't find it scummy enough to vote on. I don't know, it just feels like he's playing by one set of rules for the plebs and adopting another for himself. A quick consensus/lynch is fine, but as long as it takes place when he's awake and not me? Yeah, that bit of taking it personally is another reason I'm not voting, since it could definitely color my judgement.

Okay, some technical matters before I proceed. Tom, how did Smodge vote twice? I noticed the error you mentioned in your votecount as I was catching up, but Kilga seems to have counted Smodge twice and you just c/p'd that. And ##Unvote: CPU/Drac cause it's uncool to sack a new player who hadn't posted yet with a vote for someone who I certainly hope wouldn't be allowed into more mafia games in the near future since he keeps on wasting time and then dropping out or cause us to waste our lynch. And I won't even get into the grudges thing.

No vote yet, but I'd like Lady Door to present a comprehensive case in support of her vote. I tend to agree with her (and Cid) in that I've spotted strawman arguments in both Otter and Alex's posts (which in itself aren't proof of scumminess), but she seems to be going off more. Let's see the specifics, like several people before me had requested. Quotes/links/what have you.

Rat: I disagree with your decision to ignore Mr. Anon. It's pointless to debate whose side the vote belongs to (it's usually town, once it was scum), but it certainly counts towards a real lynch. While I understand your reasoning in disregarding it... this is a 'houserule' you're making for your dayvig. The more it happens, the less it is town's second lynch and more something you're ultimately controlling. I can't help but recall VSM's cautionary arguments, now. Would it be our lynch, except the deadline isn't a deadline, not all votes are equal (yours is already a tiebreaker, you stated, and anon doesn't count... what else works differently?). Eh. I don't like it, and I just know more exceptions will keep on coming.

On whom would provide the most information upon a flip: I actually agree with Alex's argument there, and the dayvig shouldn't be wasted on a lurker. That can be done with an end-of-day lynch. So far, however, the strongest connection I see is the Alex/Otter alliance. It is quite possible they would try to bruteforce the town into following their tune, especially given Touhou and the 'me too' sheep-like mentality that went where Alex directed it for a few days. They have the mafia skill for it, if nothing else, and NKs would whittle away any strong opposition in this case. Note, this isn't a 'one of them must be scum, let's lynch both!' argument, but one that goes 'if one of them is scum, the other is likely to be one too in this case, I feel; if one is revealed as town, it says nothing about the other.' Who else could flip that would tell us anything? If it's Cid, who flips scum, then... Cid and Alex could be engaging in bussing/a strange gambit to find a new target given that they ended up in an unfavorable condition. Or Alex could honestly be town going after Cid. Or Cid could be town and we get even less. I picked Cid for the example, here, since aside from Alex and Otter he seems the one most involved with other people.

Of course, this assumes I'm not mistaken about Alex's intent for the dayvig and what we could gleam from it. I'll let this stand so people could correct me or comment before committing to a vote well before Rat's deadline, whether he extends it or not.

264

Forum Games / Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia

« on: February 05, 2008, 08:23:21 PM »

This has a bit of 'me too' in it, but I really think an extension for this particular day 1 should be considered on its own merits, Alex. The day is shorter than the others, we needed some time to get used to the idea of reaching a decision much earlier due to dayvig, etc. Yes, that may not be the best way to play mafia, but are you seriously expecting a complete change in public opinion over the course of a single game? With 72 hours, we get roughly 36 hours of daylight per segment, which is quite enough time for a post, response, and post back between wacky US/Oz/my timezones. Less than that, and any serious discussion would likely be one-sided, with people from one single timezone and freaks that can't fall asleep commenting and having the last word.

265

Forum Games / Re: World of Warcraft Mafia - Main Topic

« on: February 05, 2008, 08:12:00 PM »

My handy Babylon translator insists that Meme (n) is... "cultural idea, social practice, concept or action that becomes a norm and begins to repeat itself consciously in a society (term coined by Richard Dawkins in his book "The Selfish Gene", 1976)"

Anyway, it's going slow, so instead of an extension, how about a request for a votecount? Maybe that along with the time left in the day would push everyone, myself included, into action?

266

Forum Games / Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia

« on: February 05, 2008, 06:22:29 PM »

I'm not sure I agree here, QR, but I at least understand where you're coming from. My vote will remain to express my displeasure to CPU over his dubious content until we're either closer to a decision or he says something that actually makes me take it off. Maybe I'm jaded from other games with him, where he didn't seem to want to make the effort, so I'm expecting more from him than the average lurker to make sure it won't be happening here, too. I dunno.

267

Forum Games / Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia

« on: February 05, 2008, 06:00:10 PM »

CPU, are you... voting/unvoting Cid for a grudge from a previous game? Jokevoting?

Whatever, that certain got you my lurker vote, since yeah, those with limited time should strive to fill it with actual content, I happen to believe. OK's got the excuse of not being here, you lack even that.

##Vote: CPU

QR, mind telling us what exactly CPU has commented on, which caused you to unvote him? Saying that Rat roleclaimed and smodge is speaking in character?

On Lady Door's concerns: Yeah, they're quite serious. But if you think only a portion of people would decide the lynch with their arguments, it still leaves others plenty of time to pitch in for the real lynch at the very least. In fact, the full day would be longer if we extend it to get enough debating done for our two lynches per day. We won't be starting it all entirely from scratch after our Prince kills the first target, after all.

268

Forum Games / Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia

« on: February 05, 2008, 05:04:54 PM »

While the way it came off is admittedly bad, it's hardly the first time we consider past posting habits when we look at someone. When Rat was playing more aggressively in discworld, it was certainly something people commented on, myself included. When Otter went through long stretches of silence in several games (in some due to RL reasons, in others due to lurking as scum and RL reasons), it was also pointed out. I don't see what's quite so invalid about me doing it here, especially since it wasn't even the main reason for my vote at any stage.

269

Forum Games / Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia

« on: February 05, 2008, 01:56:57 PM »

And an unvote as smodge posts. I think I'll wait to give the US guys time to actually say something before trying to aim for any other lurker.

##Unvote: smodge

270

Forum Games / Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia

« on: February 05, 2008, 12:22:10 PM »

Speaking of lurkers, smodge posted in Warcraft but not here. Must summon, with voting.

##Unvote, ##Vote: smodge

271

Forum Games / Re: World of Warcraft Mafia - Main Topic

« on: February 05, 2008, 11:58:57 AM »

An Alex is fine, too.

And smodge seems really scummy so fa-- ahahaha, one of this days he really will be scum and it will be epic.

EDIT:
smodge posts. Is it sad that the line above remains unchanged despite that?

272

Forum Games / Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia

« on: February 05, 2008, 11:33:24 AM »

So... wait, because I think Otter didn't pay enough attention to the game and was asking for clarifications on things amply clarified by then (and not ninja'd by Rat as he was asking about them or anything), and this is a case which I have gone over repeatedly... you're voting for me? And it even somehow lines up with what you said along the lines of:

Giving negative reinforcement for speaking one's mind seems a bad precedent to set.

'Along the lines'? Wait, that's exactly what you said, and that kept you from voting VSM. But trying to point out the strangeness of Otter's question and clearly not lurking or avoiding giving answers in any fashion is actually a reason to vote for me? And it's not even a 'pressure' vote since this gives me the dubious pleasure of a lead with two votes.

So yeah. The usual 'explain yourself' demand, except without any OMGUS vote on you. Using 'this is day 1 lol' excuses is lame because it isn't the typical day 1 due to Rat's claim in the first post, and the nature discussion had been taking since, unlike any other day 1.

273

Forum Games / Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia

« on: February 05, 2008, 08:43:33 AM »

Fine, let's argue from the devil's advocate POV, VSM. Let's say Rat isn't our Prince but GHOULISH SCUM. He is giving us a second lynch, he says, and you agree the actual power is easily-provable. If he deviates from following the town's edicts for some reason, that would be a clear sign of that scumminess. So what exactly is the problem?

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Forum Games / Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia

« on: February 05, 2008, 08:25:42 AM »

Presumably, this is where the time extension comes in. So what the hell, ##Time Extension.

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Forum Games / Re: VtM:M - Vampire the Masquerade Mafia

« on: February 05, 2008, 07:57:30 AM »

Perhaps I wasn't being clear enough. I don't like the way you asked Rat for explanations he had already given, Otter, both with flavor and without. That's really the main reason I'm keeping my vote on you. Your early presence just struck me as weird, and I don't like weirdness. I do, of course, fully support people talking and will happily switch to a lurker if deadline approaches and someone is still skulking about in the shadows.