326
Forum Games / Re: Touhou Mafia Signups
« on: January 16, 2008, 06:39:15 AM »
Pet GET. Erm, I mean, PM confirmed. >_>
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327
Forum Games / Re: Discworld Mafia is go!
« on: January 10, 2008, 09:32:09 AM »
Is that hammer? Cid, Alex?
328
Forum Games / Re: Discworld Mafia is go!
« on: January 10, 2008, 08:55:56 AM »
To answer VSM, sure. It's a bit difficult to judge whether to provide links and quotes or to summarize, sometimes. When I first tried the former, I got accused of (potentially) obfuscating the issue with huge blocks of text and intimidating links, so....
Otter's latest post is already linked to in my other one.
And here's the after-the-fact Nitori-related post you asked for: http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=268.msg2456#msg2456
More when I finish catching up.
Otter's latest post is already linked to in my other one.
And here's the after-the-fact Nitori-related post you asked for: http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=268.msg2456#msg2456
More when I finish catching up.
329
Forum Games / Re: Discworld Mafia is go!
« on: January 10, 2008, 07:57:00 AM »
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=268.msg2854#msg2854
Otter's latest post. He proposes theories re: Bobbin mention, one of which is that Bobbin could've used his claim as an attempt to clear Strago. Well, he could just as easily have done it the other way around, to cover for Otter who really needs the help this game. This is also the post that holds his roleclaim, and why exactly would he offer it there? I suppose I could see it if he were trying to make a case against Strago this way to try and give his theory more credibility, but no, he goes and votes Excal.
Moving on (or back in time, really). Otter jumps on Excal, and only Excal, for slipping under his radar. I suppose it could be that due to not paying attention that much Otter is finding Excal specifically to be lurking, while ignoring people who post sporadically but he isn't expecting more from them either due to their character or timezones. If this is true, then part of my case on him relies on exactly that. If not, I'd want to see what makes Excal special on this count.
His request from Bobbin to give more Kilga analysis (pre-Yakumo roleclaim) seems good, and I'm bringing it up for completeness's sake. I suppose it could be twisted to actually implicate Otter... eh. Good scum play would involve trying to act like a townie, and people would notice if a player (especially a normally good, active one) were focusing on some players at the expense of others. For more on this, see the point re: Excal earlier.
Some posts of excuses I'll skip in this look at Otter's posts.
Claims he's certain of town making a good call in the Nitori vote. Does so after the fact, while letting his vote sit on me the entire time and not participating. Singles out Kilga, Rat and Excal for reasons I could see, at least at the time... but votes Excal and never so much as mentions Kilga and Rat in a bad light after that.
Other things of note? Jumped on me for preferring to try and go after mildly-suspicious people rather than examples of bad play. Bobbin agreed with him, draw from this whatever conclusions you could. I think that's what I was thinking of we've missed before, though giving Kilga and Rat a free pass despite then making up two out of the three prime suspects he originally named while gunning after Excal... actually, he is gunning after Excal Bobbin-style, across days. I find that quite suspicious.
Please comment, humans.
Otter's latest post. He proposes theories re: Bobbin mention, one of which is that Bobbin could've used his claim as an attempt to clear Strago. Well, he could just as easily have done it the other way around, to cover for Otter who really needs the help this game. This is also the post that holds his roleclaim, and why exactly would he offer it there? I suppose I could see it if he were trying to make a case against Strago this way to try and give his theory more credibility, but no, he goes and votes Excal.
Moving on (or back in time, really). Otter jumps on Excal, and only Excal, for slipping under his radar. I suppose it could be that due to not paying attention that much Otter is finding Excal specifically to be lurking, while ignoring people who post sporadically but he isn't expecting more from them either due to their character or timezones. If this is true, then part of my case on him relies on exactly that. If not, I'd want to see what makes Excal special on this count.
His request from Bobbin to give more Kilga analysis (pre-Yakumo roleclaim) seems good, and I'm bringing it up for completeness's sake. I suppose it could be twisted to actually implicate Otter... eh. Good scum play would involve trying to act like a townie, and people would notice if a player (especially a normally good, active one) were focusing on some players at the expense of others. For more on this, see the point re: Excal earlier.
Some posts of excuses I'll skip in this look at Otter's posts.
Claims he's certain of town making a good call in the Nitori vote. Does so after the fact, while letting his vote sit on me the entire time and not participating. Singles out Kilga, Rat and Excal for reasons I could see, at least at the time... but votes Excal and never so much as mentions Kilga and Rat in a bad light after that.
Other things of note? Jumped on me for preferring to try and go after mildly-suspicious people rather than examples of bad play. Bobbin agreed with him, draw from this whatever conclusions you could. I think that's what I was thinking of we've missed before, though giving Kilga and Rat a free pass despite then making up two out of the three prime suspects he originally named while gunning after Excal... actually, he is gunning after Excal Bobbin-style, across days. I find that quite suspicious.
Please comment, humans.
330
Forum Games / Re: Discworld Mafia is go!
« on: January 10, 2008, 07:29:35 AM »
If Otter were here he'd vote for himself, then go after you for saying that. Joking aside, anything you have to contribute to the Fnorder analysis, Sopko, aside from what's been said before?
331
Forum Games / Re: Discworld Mafia is go!
« on: January 10, 2008, 07:19:19 AM »
Hmm. Near the end of page 36, Strago comments on Otter as I'd expect from someone who's voting for him and trying to build the case further. Once again, I feel it's coming down to a somewhat shaky case against essentially a lurker (how can you look at Otter in this game and dispute that, anyway?) and another player who seems to be looking better the more we focus on him? I'm not nearly as confident about Fnorder as I was (and still am) about VSM, but I really don't want to give Otter a pass for constantly not being here, and the various things that unsettle me where it comes to him only boost that. Most of them have been mentioned, and I figure it's time to comb Otter's posts to see whether there was anything we missed so far. I feel there was, but don't want to commit before a rereading.
On themed analysis: to me, it's more a matter of when not to believe a roleclaim, Rat. Scum might eventually slip, and it is yet another area they might slip in and I wouldn't be able to catch it without this information. Would I rely on it solely, or even for the most part? Hell no, but why not have it factor in some way? In other words, it's not to substantiate claims, but to disprove them if scum tries too much and overshoots.
Don't really understand Kilga's post at the bottom of page 36. I suppose if anything he's being consistent in his voting, but I feel that he's making the wrong call. Don't understand what second-guessing Kilga has to do with an attempt to use a roleblock by him, and would like an explanation (not necessarily by Kilga himself) on this.
Otter's in his LAL mode, VSM? More like he's coming under fire from LAL. His vote on me a few days back also had nothing to do with lurking. If Strago's post re: Otter near the end of page 36 and Tai's mid-page 37 post don't do it for you, nor my previous ones, coupled with the lurker accusations, you'll just have to wait for my eventual Otter analysis. I feel he more than warrants one, now. Just one thing, though. While I can't reconcile Otter's seemingly-random votes and sporadic posting as town play given his previous games even if he's swamped with RL, it might just be scum play, the economy mode edition.
Sopko's vote on Fnorder is... eh. I think it says something on Sopko, but it's not the time to be looking at him closely again, I feel.
Again, on Otter. People, can anyone actually do the opposite from what I've been pushing for, and make a case for Otter? I.e. why he should live? Because he's not making any effort towards that end, his last post is over ten pages ago and it's been over 26 hours since his last post by my count. We are[/]i largely lynching Fnorder for not participating enough, but do we think we can win the game if Otter's on our side but just not, you know, by our side? At all?
On themed analysis: to me, it's more a matter of when not to believe a roleclaim, Rat. Scum might eventually slip, and it is yet another area they might slip in and I wouldn't be able to catch it without this information. Would I rely on it solely, or even for the most part? Hell no, but why not have it factor in some way? In other words, it's not to substantiate claims, but to disprove them if scum tries too much and overshoots.
Don't really understand Kilga's post at the bottom of page 36. I suppose if anything he's being consistent in his voting, but I feel that he's making the wrong call. Don't understand what second-guessing Kilga has to do with an attempt to use a roleblock by him, and would like an explanation (not necessarily by Kilga himself) on this.
Otter's in his LAL mode, VSM? More like he's coming under fire from LAL. His vote on me a few days back also had nothing to do with lurking. If Strago's post re: Otter near the end of page 36 and Tai's mid-page 37 post don't do it for you, nor my previous ones, coupled with the lurker accusations, you'll just have to wait for my eventual Otter analysis. I feel he more than warrants one, now. Just one thing, though. While I can't reconcile Otter's seemingly-random votes and sporadic posting as town play given his previous games even if he's swamped with RL, it might just be scum play, the economy mode edition.
Sopko's vote on Fnorder is... eh. I think it says something on Sopko, but it's not the time to be looking at him closely again, I feel.
Again, on Otter. People, can anyone actually do the opposite from what I've been pushing for, and make a case for Otter? I.e. why he should live? Because he's not making any effort towards that end, his last post is over ten pages ago and it's been over 26 hours since his last post by my count. We are[/]i largely lynching Fnorder for not participating enough, but do we think we can win the game if Otter's on our side but just not, you know, by our side? At all?
332
Forum Games / Re: Discworld Mafia is go!
« on: January 10, 2008, 06:39:10 AM »
Finally at work. Man, why are people ignoring Otter? I see Tai's dropped a vote on him, from skimming, but otherwise the discussion seems to be entirely Excal/Fnorder.
333
Forum Games / Re: Discworld Mafia is go!
« on: January 09, 2008, 08:34:54 PM »
Interesting background info. Might come in handy later.
The more I think about it, the more I want to give incentive for Otter to talk. Since I'm going to bed, I'll leave a vote on him and see what it nets when I get to work tomorrow. Two votes (myself and Strago) should be enough to gain his interest, seems like.
##Vote: Otter
The more I think about it, the more I want to give incentive for Otter to talk. Since I'm going to bed, I'll leave a vote on him and see what it nets when I get to work tomorrow. Two votes (myself and Strago) should be enough to gain his interest, seems like.
##Vote: Otter
334
Forum Games / Re: Discworld Mafia is go!
« on: January 09, 2008, 08:07:06 PM »
Remember how I said it'd be fun to look thoroughly at the voting patterns of our confirmed scum? Well, I don't know about fun, but I certainly gave it a try.
Bobbin's been after Kilga persistently, which you don't need me telling you if you've been keeping up with the game. Only Sopko went after him day one, before recanting. No Nitori crossover here, obviously. The only one occuring had also been spotted already (Bobbin voting CPU day 1, Nitori day 2). Unfortunately, nothing overly fun or revealing in the upcoming text; apologies for dropping the block of it here for easy consulting. If Fnorder does get voted and turns out to be scum, I'd be inclined to look again at those our other scum briefly voted for on day 1, since day 1 votes are the easiest to toss out, and usually don't hold much danger unless done at a later stage when a train forms. Namely, Otter, for whom Nitori voted. He looks strange to me as it is (his posting pattern throughout the game, riddled with different excuses, his somewhat strange vote recently...), and if it turns out CPU=Fnorder=SCUM and Bobbin voted for him on day 1 as matter of tactic, it would be entirely plausible Nitori did the same thing back at a time it was still safe to build up a voting record/fake conflict between he and Otter.
Entirely dependant on certain things happening first, of course, and again I'm not in any rush to lynch Fnorder while he's still speaking. Let's have more of it. From Otter and Sopko.
Past voting record (relevant portions quoted):
Day 3:
Bobbin Cranbud (7): Yakumo, Strago, Kilgamayan, Excal, Shale, Carthrat, Hunter Sopko
Kilgamayan (1): Bobbin Cranbud
Day 2:
Nitori (6): Anonymous, Mad Fnorder, Taishyr, VSM, Corwin, Strago, Yakumo
Kilgamayan (1): Bobbin Cranbud
VSM (5): Kilgamayan, Nitori, Carthrat, Excal, Cmdr_King
*Nitori originally voted for CPU, but due to CPU being replaced Cid cleaned his slate, so there'd be nothing in the final tally
Day 1:
Hunter Sopko (0): Nitori, Kilgamayan, Excal
IhatethisCPU (2): Cmdr_King, Bobbin Cranbud, Smodge13
Nitori (0): Excal, Smodge13
Otter (3): Strago, Nitori, EvilTom, Corwin
Taishyr (0): Quietrain, Bobbin Cranbud
Bobbin's been after Kilga persistently, which you don't need me telling you if you've been keeping up with the game. Only Sopko went after him day one, before recanting. No Nitori crossover here, obviously. The only one occuring had also been spotted already (Bobbin voting CPU day 1, Nitori day 2). Unfortunately, nothing overly fun or revealing in the upcoming text; apologies for dropping the block of it here for easy consulting. If Fnorder does get voted and turns out to be scum, I'd be inclined to look again at those our other scum briefly voted for on day 1, since day 1 votes are the easiest to toss out, and usually don't hold much danger unless done at a later stage when a train forms. Namely, Otter, for whom Nitori voted. He looks strange to me as it is (his posting pattern throughout the game, riddled with different excuses, his somewhat strange vote recently...), and if it turns out CPU=Fnorder=SCUM and Bobbin voted for him on day 1 as matter of tactic, it would be entirely plausible Nitori did the same thing back at a time it was still safe to build up a voting record/fake conflict between he and Otter.
Entirely dependant on certain things happening first, of course, and again I'm not in any rush to lynch Fnorder while he's still speaking. Let's have more of it. From Otter and Sopko.
Past voting record (relevant portions quoted):
Day 3:
Bobbin Cranbud (7): Yakumo, Strago, Kilgamayan, Excal, Shale, Carthrat, Hunter Sopko
Kilgamayan (1): Bobbin Cranbud
Day 2:
Nitori (6): Anonymous, Mad Fnorder, Taishyr, VSM, Corwin, Strago, Yakumo
Kilgamayan (1): Bobbin Cranbud
VSM (5): Kilgamayan, Nitori, Carthrat, Excal, Cmdr_King
*Nitori originally voted for CPU, but due to CPU being replaced Cid cleaned his slate, so there'd be nothing in the final tally
Day 1:
Hunter Sopko (0): Nitori, Kilgamayan, Excal
IhatethisCPU (2): Cmdr_King, Bobbin Cranbud, Smodge13
Nitori (0): Excal, Smodge13
Otter (3): Strago, Nitori, EvilTom, Corwin
Taishyr (0): Quietrain, Bobbin Cranbud
335
Forum Games / Re: Discworld Mafia is go!
« on: January 09, 2008, 07:34:01 PM »
Is your destiny set in stone? No, that's not why I withdrew my vote for now. It was entirely because of last day's hammer, and the fact that one of the players has the two votes necessary to get from four to six and have you lynched before I'm satisfied with the results of this day's conversations.
Do I think you still look the scummiest? Pretty much. I don't think you flipping will give us much we don't already know, however you do flip in the end, so I'm waiting to see whether a better case appears (and you should certainly be motivated to help find one) or we're getting pressed for time and have to lynch someone.
In the end, if you're town, you win with town, even in death. Since some of us, myself included, don't know much about Discworld, I'd second Strago's request for a themed analysis of the claims and various flavor dropped around, if you've run out of things to comment on the players themselves.
Do I think you still look the scummiest? Pretty much. I don't think you flipping will give us much we don't already know, however you do flip in the end, so I'm waiting to see whether a better case appears (and you should certainly be motivated to help find one) or we're getting pressed for time and have to lynch someone.
In the end, if you're town, you win with town, even in death. Since some of us, myself included, don't know much about Discworld, I'd second Strago's request for a themed analysis of the claims and various flavor dropped around, if you've run out of things to comment on the players themselves.
336
Forum Games / Re: Discworld Mafia is go!
« on: January 09, 2008, 06:22:34 PM »
Hmm.
I feel the comment about sleeping obfuscates the issue somewhat. I can certainly buy it for why it took you this time to respond to our accusations... but you were certainly free to post earlier without being voted for. Charges of you lurking, especially at a stage where it's too dangerous to lurk, are part of what makes this look like either scum or bad town play, neither of which we would want to see here.
The vote on Excal... eh. I dunno. On the one hand, voting the person who voted you without a clear case to boot is more than a bit suspicious. On the other....
I do know that I don't want to reach hammer too early again, so I'll remove my vote from you on the explicit condition that you talk more, specifically about Excal. Also, comments about other cases being debated would also be quite nice. For example, you're going on the assumption Kilga is town (and therefore Shale is, etc). What if he's not? Do you think his roleclaim is believable thematically? Where would going on the assumption Kilga is scum lead you? I feel like I'm reaching by trying to invent new ways for you to look at the situation and talk more, but for some reason I keep on wanting to hear you speak more. Also, you say you've 'reached this point' when commenting on Otter, but there's nothing you're saying about him!
To the others, given my timezone, I'll certainly be around in time to drop the hammer here should a consensus be reached by then. With no cops left (a metagaming assumption, but quite a reasonable one) discussion is all we have left to locate the scum before they cull us.
##Unvote: Fnorder
I feel the comment about sleeping obfuscates the issue somewhat. I can certainly buy it for why it took you this time to respond to our accusations... but you were certainly free to post earlier without being voted for. Charges of you lurking, especially at a stage where it's too dangerous to lurk, are part of what makes this look like either scum or bad town play, neither of which we would want to see here.
The vote on Excal... eh. I dunno. On the one hand, voting the person who voted you without a clear case to boot is more than a bit suspicious. On the other....
I do know that I don't want to reach hammer too early again, so I'll remove my vote from you on the explicit condition that you talk more, specifically about Excal. Also, comments about other cases being debated would also be quite nice. For example, you're going on the assumption Kilga is town (and therefore Shale is, etc). What if he's not? Do you think his roleclaim is believable thematically? Where would going on the assumption Kilga is scum lead you? I feel like I'm reaching by trying to invent new ways for you to look at the situation and talk more, but for some reason I keep on wanting to hear you speak more. Also, you say you've 'reached this point' when commenting on Otter, but there's nothing you're saying about him!
To the others, given my timezone, I'll certainly be around in time to drop the hammer here should a consensus be reached by then. With no cops left (a metagaming assumption, but quite a reasonable one) discussion is all we have left to locate the scum before they cull us.
##Unvote: Fnorder
337
Forum Games / Re: Discworld Mafia is go!
« on: January 09, 2008, 01:57:52 PM »
Rat brings up an interesting point, Tai. Please speak on Kilga and Rat himself some more.
338
Forum Games / Re: Discworld Mafia is go!
« on: January 09, 2008, 11:59:21 AM »
I also don't think there was an elaborate scum-replace plot, Rat. However, I can see two scum trying to bus an unhelpful one that was going to quit anyway, but stopping when a new player that wasn't trying to suicide came in his stead. It would merely be adjusting to a new situation, and not something pre-planned.
Speaking of your post again, "When you put it like that" is addressed to Excal? I'm having a brain freeze moment, and can't get whom you're addressing, there.
To Sopko: A mod hasn't posted yet with the tally and the time remaining, which I feel would give Fnorder a greater sense of urgency to defend himself at last, but from my own count of the votes I have to agree. Let's wait and see what he says, and how it/the rest of the discussion implicates people when someone flips after a lynch. That said, whom would you like to discuss in the time we have, aside from Fnorder? You seem ambiguous on Otter and tentatively pro-Excal judging by past posts, but I'm wary of going too far due to the flips and revelations we've had in the meantime. Was I right on your feelings towards those two? What of the others?
Speaking of your post again, "When you put it like that" is addressed to Excal? I'm having a brain freeze moment, and can't get whom you're addressing, there.
To Sopko: A mod hasn't posted yet with the tally and the time remaining, which I feel would give Fnorder a greater sense of urgency to defend himself at last, but from my own count of the votes I have to agree. Let's wait and see what he says, and how it/the rest of the discussion implicates people when someone flips after a lynch. That said, whom would you like to discuss in the time we have, aside from Fnorder? You seem ambiguous on Otter and tentatively pro-Excal judging by past posts, but I'm wary of going too far due to the flips and revelations we've had in the meantime. Was I right on your feelings towards those two? What of the others?
339
Forum Games / Re: Discworld Mafia is go!
« on: January 09, 2008, 10:23:55 AM »
Excal: Bobbin's line on Strago really seemed to me like fishing for a town roleclaim, all in the effort of scum getting a clearer target as Bobbin went down.
VSM: The fun part is looking at Bobbin's voting record in detail, doing the same for Nitori, and then doing an analysis yet again for Bobbin and Nitori voting together. I know parts of this were used in both of Fnorder's defense and the case against him, but I don't recall anything more thorough.
VSM: The fun part is looking at Bobbin's voting record in detail, doing the same for Nitori, and then doing an analysis yet again for Bobbin and Nitori voting together. I know parts of this were used in both of Fnorder's defense and the case against him, but I don't recall anything more thorough.
340
Forum Games / Re: Discworld Mafia is go!
« on: January 09, 2008, 09:48:46 AM »
And I'd like to trouble our mods with a votecount if possible, please.
341
Forum Games / Re: Discworld Mafia is go!
« on: January 09, 2008, 09:48:10 AM »
A comment on Excal's post. Bobbin could've been lying about investigating Strago, about investigating Otter, or about both. I know I've used only Strago as an example, but that was because Bobbin claimed Strago had a role and Strago was active around that time, which would have allowed us to get a confirmation or another nail in Bobbin's coffin, however things went. I find it a bit strange that you're accepting his claim about investigating Otter so readily. He could've lied (as scum he'd know whether Otter was one or not), Otter could've lied whether he's scum or if he's town with a role he'd like to keep to himself, etcetc.
But I don't consider this significant enough to go after you instead of Fnorder. Do explain yourself on this, please, but it's really Fnorder whom I'd like to talk. A lot.
##Vote: Fnorder
I've felt his role was fishy before he even assumed it, and therefore I tried to resist reasoning I felt was flawed (and terribly meta) by getting him to participate and talk to get an actual read on him. He either resisted these attempts most valiantly unless I voted for him first to get him to even respond, or said things that made me suspicious. At this point, I'd like him defend himself like it's his last chance, because enough people find him suspicious by now and it really is the time for him to prove himself.
But I don't consider this significant enough to go after you instead of Fnorder. Do explain yourself on this, please, but it's really Fnorder whom I'd like to talk. A lot.
##Vote: Fnorder
I've felt his role was fishy before he even assumed it, and therefore I tried to resist reasoning I felt was flawed (and terribly meta) by getting him to participate and talk to get an actual read on him. He either resisted these attempts most valiantly unless I voted for him first to get him to even respond, or said things that made me suspicious. At this point, I'd like him defend himself like it's his last chance, because enough people find him suspicious by now and it really is the time for him to prove himself.
342
Forum Games / Re: Discworld Mafia is go!
« on: January 09, 2008, 06:08:51 AM »
Which is what originally drew my suspicion to it, Kilga, as I said once before. Actually, speaking of Kilga, I believe he has a flare for somewhat convoluted gambits when he plays as scum, so I wouldn't outright clear him just yet. It could have been part of the plan to have Kilga and Bobbin fight it out publically over several days, so that one flips the other gains cred. He certainly isn't getting my vote over this -- I'm just explaining why I don't consider him to look as good as Otter does.
Sopko's reply adds to my suspicions about him rather than alleviates anything. People had ample time to comment? Well, let's take a look.
Bobbin's claim (page 30): http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=268.msg2656#msg2656
Sopko's Hammer (mid-page 31): http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=268.msg2702#msg2702
People commenting in between, in no particular order: Yakumo, Rat, Tai, VSM, You (Sopko), Shale, Kilga, Strago.
Certainly enough to decide Bobbin's guilt, yeah... but now we don't have other people on record. No Fnorder reaction to analyze, nothing from Otter there, nothing from myself (and I've mentioned that part already before), nothing from Excal which likely would've been relevant as Otter's now making a case against him.
It's not about you being suspicious for dropping the hammer, Sopko, but for you being suspicious about when you chose to do it. I see no harm and quite a bit to gain by waiting there, and you didn't. I disagree with the reasons you're giving for not waiting.
Sopko's reply adds to my suspicions about him rather than alleviates anything. People had ample time to comment? Well, let's take a look.
Bobbin's claim (page 30): http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=268.msg2656#msg2656
Sopko's Hammer (mid-page 31): http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=268.msg2702#msg2702
People commenting in between, in no particular order: Yakumo, Rat, Tai, VSM, You (Sopko), Shale, Kilga, Strago.
Certainly enough to decide Bobbin's guilt, yeah... but now we don't have other people on record. No Fnorder reaction to analyze, nothing from Otter there, nothing from myself (and I've mentioned that part already before), nothing from Excal which likely would've been relevant as Otter's now making a case against him.
It's not about you being suspicious for dropping the hammer, Sopko, but for you being suspicious about when you chose to do it. I see no harm and quite a bit to gain by waiting there, and you didn't. I disagree with the reasons you're giving for not waiting.
343
Forum Games / Re: Discworld Mafia is go!
« on: January 08, 2008, 08:33:53 PM »
Since you're the only one around right now, apparently, and you're talking again (always on prompting, but whatever works)... Fnorder, what made you consider Shale to be on the table, out of curiousity? I just quoted you saying that you had a null read on him, and that was before Kilga's roleclaim. Sure, he was on the table for some of us... but you never indicated this.
So, if he was indeed someone you had been considering, please provide the reasons why. If not, please explain your recent post.
So, if he was indeed someone you had been considering, please provide the reasons why. If not, please explain your recent post.
344
Forum Games / Re: Discworld Mafia is go!
« on: January 08, 2008, 08:08:17 PM »
Let's see. If Kilga is to be believed (just the regular Mafia suspicion here, nothing particular I'm going on), Shale is either Town or Godfather? Okay.
Sopko still looks somewhat bad to me. I questing his hammering and his decision to do so before some of us have weighed in in full (as at least I mentioned that I intended to do so once Bobbin's response came in). It was hardly to defend Bobbin, or to debate the case more. Unlike Day 1, where delaying the lynch to talk was a nonsensical idea to me, here more information could have been gained based on the revelations. For example, we could've pressed Bobbin to reveal what supposed power Strago may or may not have. Had he responded correctly, we could then confirm (post-Bobbin lynch) that he did in fact investigate Strago one night, and didn't lie about that part. Since he was pretty unanimously suspected as scum by the point of hammer, it's not like scum would get any new information, while we could certainly benefit. As things stand, I'm not sure whether VSM's theory on why Bobbin supported him works -- Bobbin avoided naming him, and we got nothing contradicting his claims about the people he investigated (yes, aside from him being a lying scum). Furthermore, Yakumo didn't get to leave a message in a bottle, much like a zombie post, only made ahead of time. It was likely that if he turned out town, he would not live past the night. I certainly would have liked him to have a chance to pitch in with all his theories in full before we all went ahead and lynched Bobbin.
I could have summarized that entire paragraph by saying, "Sopko, here's the new reason I don't like you, please explain your actions. (And, err, talk more.)"
Moving on. Otter is still absent. At some point he'll have to contribute the way I'd expect a human to or get voted off the island. Not while there are better leads so far, however. Ditto for Fnorder.
Actually. Worse for Fnorder. I have much hate for his continual lurking habits, but there is something he did say that bothers me (aside from his vague OMGUS hunch on me after I voted for him that he never bothered to explain when Rat asked him about it). Here it is:
(emphasis mine)
So, umm, Bobbin was at the very bottom of Fnorder's suspects? It doesn't look good to me at all. And then, we get this as eventual follow up:
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=268.msg2603#msg2603
This comes after Yakumo's claim, and Fnorder talks of how he now isn't too sure of his theory about VSM. "this was based on my theory of thinking VSM was town as well. " is a helpful excerpt from that post, followed by this one: "If Bobbin's bad, that makes me doubt my VSM theory". It might be plausible, I'll admit... but if scum were trying to get us to cast doubt on those we mostly believe to be town, this would be precisely the way to go about it. Bobbin was about to flip, and scum knew it. So why not attach someone we have looked at as likely-town to him as he went down?
P.S.
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=268.msg2620#msg2620
This is Fnorder on Shale. He missed him once in his round up. In fact, he missed him a second time, and had to be reminded of it again before he finally got to the only person he omitted from his analysis. And then, he says he has no read on him. In fact, I only noticed this after reading Shale's recent posts on Bobbin doing something similar for an excuse to ignore Sopko. This doesn't implicate Shale on its own, I feel (unless Fnorder flips scum, of course), and isn't here as part of a case against Fnorder. It's just a reminder for the future, should he flip one day the way I feel he is, if I won't be around to make the observation then.
Still no read on Excal (that's not to say I can't read him, but that I see signs going both ways). Likewise for Rat; the kneejerk reaction of AlwaysScum! is hard to avoid, and I think he's good enough to play the same way however his alignment is, which only adds to the pain of figuring him out. Strago feels townish, but not to the degree I get from VSM and Tai. Speaking of VSM, would like to hear more from you, particularly on this and on Kilga.
Sopko still looks somewhat bad to me. I questing his hammering and his decision to do so before some of us have weighed in in full (as at least I mentioned that I intended to do so once Bobbin's response came in). It was hardly to defend Bobbin, or to debate the case more. Unlike Day 1, where delaying the lynch to talk was a nonsensical idea to me, here more information could have been gained based on the revelations. For example, we could've pressed Bobbin to reveal what supposed power Strago may or may not have. Had he responded correctly, we could then confirm (post-Bobbin lynch) that he did in fact investigate Strago one night, and didn't lie about that part. Since he was pretty unanimously suspected as scum by the point of hammer, it's not like scum would get any new information, while we could certainly benefit. As things stand, I'm not sure whether VSM's theory on why Bobbin supported him works -- Bobbin avoided naming him, and we got nothing contradicting his claims about the people he investigated (yes, aside from him being a lying scum). Furthermore, Yakumo didn't get to leave a message in a bottle, much like a zombie post, only made ahead of time. It was likely that if he turned out town, he would not live past the night. I certainly would have liked him to have a chance to pitch in with all his theories in full before we all went ahead and lynched Bobbin.
I could have summarized that entire paragraph by saying, "Sopko, here's the new reason I don't like you, please explain your actions. (And, err, talk more.)"
Moving on. Otter is still absent. At some point he'll have to contribute the way I'd expect a human to or get voted off the island. Not while there are better leads so far, however. Ditto for Fnorder.
Actually. Worse for Fnorder. I have much hate for his continual lurking habits, but there is something he did say that bothers me (aside from his vague OMGUS hunch on me after I voted for him that he never bothered to explain when Rat asked him about it). Here it is:
Quote
Cranbud- Quiet but with a reason. The only notable thing is the swing at Kilga and defense of VSM in the beginning of the Day 2 VSM vs. Kilga tussle. Dead last on the suspicious list quiet side.
(emphasis mine)
So, umm, Bobbin was at the very bottom of Fnorder's suspects? It doesn't look good to me at all. And then, we get this as eventual follow up:
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=268.msg2603#msg2603
This comes after Yakumo's claim, and Fnorder talks of how he now isn't too sure of his theory about VSM. "this was based on my theory of thinking VSM was town as well. " is a helpful excerpt from that post, followed by this one: "If Bobbin's bad, that makes me doubt my VSM theory". It might be plausible, I'll admit... but if scum were trying to get us to cast doubt on those we mostly believe to be town, this would be precisely the way to go about it. Bobbin was about to flip, and scum knew it. So why not attach someone we have looked at as likely-town to him as he went down?
P.S.
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=268.msg2620#msg2620
This is Fnorder on Shale. He missed him once in his round up. In fact, he missed him a second time, and had to be reminded of it again before he finally got to the only person he omitted from his analysis. And then, he says he has no read on him. In fact, I only noticed this after reading Shale's recent posts on Bobbin doing something similar for an excuse to ignore Sopko. This doesn't implicate Shale on its own, I feel (unless Fnorder flips scum, of course), and isn't here as part of a case against Fnorder. It's just a reminder for the future, should he flip one day the way I feel he is, if I won't be around to make the observation then.
Still no read on Excal (that's not to say I can't read him, but that I see signs going both ways). Likewise for Rat; the kneejerk reaction of AlwaysScum! is hard to avoid, and I think he's good enough to play the same way however his alignment is, which only adds to the pain of figuring him out. Strago feels townish, but not to the degree I get from VSM and Tai. Speaking of VSM, would like to hear more from you, particularly on this and on Kilga.
345
Forum Games / Re: Discworld Mafia is go!
« on: January 08, 2008, 01:01:17 PM »
A shame about that hammer before I could even revive, that was unexpected with the time we still had. It might've been useful to ask both Bobbin and Yakumo for a detailed insight on everyone else, so we would have more info to work with today.
Shale doesn't look too hot at a glance, and Fnorder keeps on looking suspicious to me. I'll try to handle those two first in my eventual post. Kilga looks a bit better as a consequence of the Bobbin thing, but I wouldn't consider him off the hook just yet. More thoughts later once works clears up a bit.
Shale doesn't look too hot at a glance, and Fnorder keeps on looking suspicious to me. I'll try to handle those two first in my eventual post. Kilga looks a bit better as a consequence of the Bobbin thing, but I wouldn't consider him off the hook just yet. More thoughts later once works clears up a bit.
346
Forum Games / Re: Discworld Mafia is go!
« on: January 07, 2008, 08:00:10 PM »
I won't press you about it at this time, then, Yakumo.
In fact, I've said what I wanted to so far. Waiting on an answer/clarification from Shale about a quote of his I used here: http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=268.msg2594#msg2594 . Can't do much there until I get one.
Already got Fnorder to talk (but he better talk more by the time I get to work tomorrow and glance over the thread; there're bound to be more developments, and my vote stays on him for the time being to remind him of his civic duty). Otter is again silent, again with an excuse, but this is hardly the time to pursue him. Kilga's case depends on Bobbin and Shale commenting; Shale with the clarification I asked for, and Bobbin with his inevitable defense(s). No more posts from me till I'm at work (my) tomorrow, it seems.
In fact, I've said what I wanted to so far. Waiting on an answer/clarification from Shale about a quote of his I used here: http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=268.msg2594#msg2594 . Can't do much there until I get one.
Already got Fnorder to talk (but he better talk more by the time I get to work tomorrow and glance over the thread; there're bound to be more developments, and my vote stays on him for the time being to remind him of his civic duty). Otter is again silent, again with an excuse, but this is hardly the time to pursue him. Kilga's case depends on Bobbin and Shale commenting; Shale with the clarification I asked for, and Bobbin with his inevitable defense(s). No more posts from me till I'm at work (my) tomorrow, it seems.
347
Forum Games / Re: Discworld Mafia is go!
« on: January 07, 2008, 07:18:44 PM »
Clarification, I'm asking for a the player's name here, not role or anything that could identify their allegience or importance to town.
348
Forum Games / Re: Discworld Mafia is go!
« on: January 07, 2008, 07:17:19 PM »
Interesting, so your claim is that either you're lying and Bobbin flipping reveals you as scum, or you're right and Bobbin would be one? And in both cases, we trade a townie for a scum?
On a related note, who left their house unlocked the first night?
On a related note, who left their house unlocked the first night?
349
Forum Games / Re: Discworld Mafia is go!
« on: January 07, 2008, 06:54:44 PM »
Huh. And the most important part isn't immediately clear on rereading, without following the links. The 'you' mostly speaks to Bobbin in my previous post.
And since I'm posting again, here's a question to Fnorder. Now that we've seen your analysis on the players, why not vote for Sopko instead of using an ineffective FoS? I'm not trying to claim FoS are ineffective as a whole, mind, but so far we have people at two votes, so a mere fingering at someone who is quite safe doesn't seem all that likely to me to achieve the desire effect. Please explain your reasoning here.
And since I'm posting again, here's a question to Fnorder. Now that we've seen your analysis on the players, why not vote for Sopko instead of using an ineffective FoS? I'm not trying to claim FoS are ineffective as a whole, mind, but so far we have people at two votes, so a mere fingering at someone who is quite safe doesn't seem all that likely to me to achieve the desire effect. Please explain your reasoning here.
350
Forum Games / Re: Discworld Mafia is go!
« on: January 07, 2008, 06:48:44 PM »
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=268.msg2460#msg2460
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=268.msg2470#msg2470
Even if we assume that to be true (a skimming of the last couple of pages at the time would've cleared things up, what with Cid's modpost/vote count update and all), this is what bothers me:
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=268.msg2424#msg2424
Your post of 'That's Hammer, isn't it?' is billed as « Reply #346 on: January 06, 2008, 07:14:07 PM »
Shale's follow-up post saying 'Not until a mod shows up and enforces the deadline cutoff, I think. At the moment it's six votes, with eight to lynch.' is timed at « Reply #347 on: January 06, 2008, 07:16:31 PM »
I don't know about you, but I refresh the mafia board a few times, certainly when I'm about to leave (particularly after posting a question to the board). I believe I'm not alone in this. It usually takes me a couple minutes (allowing for reloading times and such) before I'm satisfied and I give up for the day. The answer to your question came as back-to-back as they do, and yet you still didn't see it? Didn't stick around for it for a bit?
I suppose if you want to claim you were being rhetorical... but it just doesn't read that way to me. Poor attention overall to the rules specified by the mod to resolve our confusion over the lynch/no lynch situation of day 2, the voting record that was conveniently posted nearby and one doesn't really need to work hard to hunt down, not seeing the lynch through; it seems either as negligent/bad town play and at a pretty crucial time for us during day 2, or scum play.
Not voting for you yet since I want to see you talk more rather than create a train with my vote that would snowball without giving you a chance to react.
Shale, I'm afraid I'm not sure which post you're talking about, or how far back I need to go to look for it. Due to our timezone differences, using 'day' is indeed useless as an indicator to me. Did you mean this? http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=268.msg2405#msg2405
P.S.
Particularly annoyed at myself for sharing Bobbin's suspicions of Kilga, as an aside. Not sure what to make of this yet. At least I find myself in company with VSM, whom I tentatively trust. And on the subject of tentative trust, there's also Tai, for the record.
Quote
I was writing my 'well, I guess nobody is going to vote, so here's the Nitori hammer...' vote for Nitori and the board informed me of your vote. Since I was thinking it was hammer and we were supposed to stop talking, I didn't bother posting said vote.
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=268.msg2470#msg2470
Quote
As I said in the post immediately following what I took to be your hammer, I thought that was the end of the day. I exited the board afterwards and didn't get back on until nightfall.
Even if we assume that to be true (a skimming of the last couple of pages at the time would've cleared things up, what with Cid's modpost/vote count update and all), this is what bothers me:
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=268.msg2424#msg2424
Your post of 'That's Hammer, isn't it?' is billed as « Reply #346 on: January 06, 2008, 07:14:07 PM »
Shale's follow-up post saying 'Not until a mod shows up and enforces the deadline cutoff, I think. At the moment it's six votes, with eight to lynch.' is timed at « Reply #347 on: January 06, 2008, 07:16:31 PM »
I don't know about you, but I refresh the mafia board a few times, certainly when I'm about to leave (particularly after posting a question to the board). I believe I'm not alone in this. It usually takes me a couple minutes (allowing for reloading times and such) before I'm satisfied and I give up for the day. The answer to your question came as back-to-back as they do, and yet you still didn't see it? Didn't stick around for it for a bit?
I suppose if you want to claim you were being rhetorical... but it just doesn't read that way to me. Poor attention overall to the rules specified by the mod to resolve our confusion over the lynch/no lynch situation of day 2, the voting record that was conveniently posted nearby and one doesn't really need to work hard to hunt down, not seeing the lynch through; it seems either as negligent/bad town play and at a pretty crucial time for us during day 2, or scum play.
Not voting for you yet since I want to see you talk more rather than create a train with my vote that would snowball without giving you a chance to react.
Quote
Speaking of Cranbud and Kilga, I'd like to hear what other people have to say about the Kilga post I focused on yesterday/this morning (depending on your definition of "day").
Shale, I'm afraid I'm not sure which post you're talking about, or how far back I need to go to look for it. Due to our timezone differences, using 'day' is indeed useless as an indicator to me. Did you mean this? http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php?topic=268.msg2405#msg2405
P.S.
Particularly annoyed at myself for sharing Bobbin's suspicions of Kilga, as an aside. Not sure what to make of this yet. At least I find myself in company with VSM, whom I tentatively trust. And on the subject of tentative trust, there's also Tai, for the record.