Messages

1

Forum Games / Inertia Shotgun Graffiti

« on: June 19, 2011, 06:41:20 PM »

Bagsy scumbuddies with Kilga. It feels overdue.

I'll be relatively inactive if it starts any time before August, but not to extreme lurker / modkill territory. Just don't have me killed when I don't end up talking a mile a minute.

2

Forum Games / Ranger Valour Omnibus

« on: December 28, 2010, 04:34:35 PM »

Willing to play the odds that you don't then end up scum, Kilga?

3

Forum Games / Alchemy Scroll Blade

« on: December 27, 2010, 09:02:52 PM »

people should say if they want to be king or not, who they'd want to be kings, etc.

I will accept and play with any role passed in my direction, from king to vanilla to third party voteless doctorproof beloved princess ghost bomb miller with posting restrictions, 1 hit point, terminal cancer with a (nx10)% chance of killing me during night n, and a win condition of being the sole survivor out of both teams. I remain unconvinced of the balance shift brought on by inter-game concerns, but trust Alex implicitly for all other balance concerns.

For the latter, I shall at this point simply say that I would have no problem with anyone currently listed being king in either game (except maybe a few of the newer players) and would be happy with it being randomly generated along with everything else. The one criterion I would like emphasised is that whichever players do end up being the kings should be as sure as sensibly possible that they won't end up accidentally superlurking and get subbed out.

4

Forum Games / Nitro Chart Suite

« on: December 22, 2010, 01:30:31 PM »

Don't know the theme, but sure, count me in, I'd love to help see this actually reach its player limit.

I'd say put me on either side and I'll play appropriately to the side, but looks like you need as many Serious Fucking Business players as you can get. I'll note well ahead of time of knowing roles or mechanics that I almost certainly won't be able to afford remotely the same level of dedication (obsession) as some earlier games.

My only other observation at this point is that you're going to need some amiable way of making sure the sides end up even, as go figure it's going to snowball towards casual as is.

Edit: oh, and it occurs to me as I start to actually think about the mechanics of the game that it at least has the potential to go massively unbalanced. I haven't thought any scenario through in any real detail, but one that comes to mind is if one side manages to lynch its mafia nice and early and ends up with a massive body advantage in the night phases, and the other that's come to mind is a potentially dominant no lynch strategy (why waste bodies during the day when eventual victory is largely dependent on nights?), or at least until things start going wrong at night. I can see the general outline of arguments as to why you still need to root out the mafia to get ahead and for making better informed decisions for picking battle parties and whatnot, but I don't see the point in, say, lynching anyone day one when the number of dead innocents is far more relevant to winning the game than normal (pretty much simply as a result of it being an inter-team game).

5

Forum Games / Re: The DL Battles it Out... In Space! (Let's Play Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition!)

« on: October 03, 2010, 07:15:22 PM »

Count me in if needed, but I'm guessing you won't. I forget if it's known here, but my house has an obscene number of board games, and I've played Twilight Imperium a fair number of times. I'm happy to play to make the numbers, but I'm also perfectly happy to be the first to opt out if and when there are too many people for spaces because yeah, I've played it before, no big loss. Same primary reason why I haven't been putting myself forward for Arkham Horror when there's been so much interest otherwise.

And oh, if you need supplies then maybe I can at least help with that? I'm not sure about it being third edition or otherwise, but there's some version of at least one expansion sitting downstairs.

6

Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Game Over

« on: September 24, 2010, 11:06:17 AM »

Though Xanth pretty much dropped the RPing early, I will compliment his eye on screencaps - those images were well-picked for amusment / weirdness.

Oh man, you have no idea. That's like my top reason for why I was disappointed with the low activity in this game. I'd made so many screenshots and was ready for 20+ posts a day, as the main reason I chose Maya (I was actually trying to avoid overly bitchy characters, as hard as that may be given the theme) was because Occult Academy is a goldmine for reaction faces, if not actually a good series. I'd even deliberately started out by not going into my favourites, a small selection of which I showcase above, for more cunning use later on that never happened. The inactivity was also why I never felt inclined to actually get into roleplaying at all, but frankly the only real difference you would have seen was some flavour-specific language, as Maya's a super-aggressive bitchy type (<3), so not far off the mark.

Oh, and yeah, I've pretty much stopped trying to hide my identity in anonymous games, between time zones and the amount of extra effort it takes to try and post in a different style.

7

Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Game Over

« on: September 23, 2010, 09:21:43 PM »

Be fair, as sure as I was I took the fact that absolutely no one else was buying into it as a sign that I needed to be elsewhere even if I was right, was on Mai by the end of the day and would have been on him and Tanaka on day three had I lived (well, had I lived maybe Tanaka would have played differently).

Your day one actions were clear cut scum, what can I say. Very little to do with the roleplaying, and I imagine was as little fun for me as it was for you. Guess it's just something I have to factor into future play, given that you weren't. Live and learn and all that.

8

Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Game Over

« on: September 23, 2010, 01:01:37 PM »

Yeah, so I have no idea how you didn't lynch Rat. He just couldn't possibly be that stupid in his implementation of LAL (and I'm hoping his little epilogue here will be to teach people proper LAL, because I'm sure he didn't believe what he was saying at the time). Tanaka I guessed on day three when he suddenly came out in full support of Rat in an equally obvious manner, and was only my secondary pair guess to Kilga at the time because I just couldn't shake Tron's day one play from my mind. But yeah, I was actually wrong about Tron, so I can't be completely 'told you so' on it.

Kilga: if it is the same as that game except those two changes (doctor -> jailer, kill++), then you've upped scum's power by a fair chunk in comparison. But eh, it's plausible that scum were underpowered in the original.

Sopko ninja: man, you were my light of hope after I died. I figured that surely with the evidence that clear you'd be able to convince people, but apparently not.

9

Forum Games / Re: DL Mafia GAME OVER Scum Win

« on: June 06, 2010, 12:05:08 AM »

Well, lesson learned not to play during the May-July busy period (better lesson to learn: find a better job). Kind of required something approaching a perfect storm to screw up that badly, but apparently it can happen, so let's not harm town so badly again. At least my hunting wasn't so inherently terrible this game, I was just thoroughly distracted by noise from start to finish.

I received nothing in my message regarding strawberries or anything else. It simply said that because an 'opening has appeared' I had gained a single use of gires. Guess it should have done?

10

Forum Games / Re: DL Mafia (Day 2)

« on: May 30, 2010, 11:06:34 AM »

So you can work with it before the end of the day, go figure I am/was actually town (please do not doubt this, I'd look even more stupid post-game if I used this position as scum to mislead you on minor things for a few hours). Was vanilla (so far as I knew, at least) to start with, gained one shot doctor overnight, which I was going to use on myself tonight because scum were probably going to do things by the book. Oh well! Not sure if that was my level up or if there was a one-shot doc ability that passed to the person who gets protected. Probably the former, as cool as the latter sounds in principal. I am/was also a godlike character, which I figured as vanilla was there to be a trap claim, but maybe it was attached to something powerful at the top level.

Also lol Tai, I play your game for days and days and days and waste hours and lose so much sleep on a single point and you keep on finding ways on twisting that tiny stuff into maintaining the vote in the most frustrating ways possible, but minutes after a suicide vote you're certain I'm town? I knew we had different priorities, but this is just silly. You should never have sympathy for emotional bail outs like this, and I think Kilga's the only one to have had the correct reaction (other than for considering that it still might be scum-scum after the /ragequit, lol wut).

Oh, except for Excal. Short of something extraordinary, I would have made sure that I died by the end of the day anyway, but /ragequit or no /ragequit I didn't want to just PM drop out of nowhere and cause maximum pain to town. Excal is completely right to be stomping on drama queens in general, for sure, and if anything is being rather town-friendly with it, in that with the Noyndy mod kill also it's like town gets a bonus lynch, what with three for the price of one today. Again, really sorry Excal, none of the several cock ups in this game have been your fault in any way.


Ninja: as much as I'm cooling down, I probably shouldn't get involved much any more, but even though I threw out a {Makkotah, Snowfire, Metroid} team guess earlier (choosing Makkotah might have been emotionally charged unless I saw connections to the other two at the time (I can't remember), but I'm really not comfortable with the connection Snowfire and Metroid have, and also while I'm thinking about it they've both excused a vote or implied vote by 'gut' alone), Makkotah's in the right against QRou here even without the clarification. Carelessness is a scum-leaning action. Only a minor one, but 'I was careless' is no town excuse.

And oh, there are clearly three scum in this game. You don't need to think deeply about that, it's just really obvious. 13 players is the perfect number for three scum, and there hasn't been any crazy shifts in powers to even hint at two or four.

11

Forum Games / Re: DL Mafia (Day 2)

« on: May 30, 2010, 01:18:03 AM »

Sod it, I'm done here.

Tai, I really, really hope you're town, because if you're scum then you've deliberately made my game complete misery over really, really stupid stuff.

##Unvote: Tai
##Vote: Xanth

Because even when I flip the table over in a /ragequit I'll at least be polite and give warning rather than just copy/paste my PM information, but I will do that on the first claim of appeal to emotion, because I have next to no intention of staying in the game. By which I mean getting into the game at all, really. I guess expectations are such that I just can't play in the May-July rush.

I hate myself for being a selfish baby about it, but I'm just not willing to go on like this and spend late nights getting depressed over it. It'd just go on forever otherwise, with each of us continuing to claim that each wall of text is the last.

I wouldn't really trust my opinions right now given how heavily on tilt I am and how little I've read through the murky people, but I was looking out for people hedging their bets on the endless frustration, and while there was quite a lot of that, Makkotah stands out as worst, and while I'm being crazy I'd even take a stab at a team of Makkotah/Snowfire/Metroid, but that's probably ten levels too simple, especially with the level of lurkery, which really ought to contain scum somewhere.

And yeah, sorry Excal. This game's gone to hell in a handbasket with no fault of your own.

Ninja: okay, that you can have. I commented on Alice and have nothing to add, and haven't read through Rat. Liked him at the start, but since melted into the background for me. Haven't read enough to say any more on him.

12

Forum Games / Perfect Rocky Chalk

« on: May 29, 2010, 03:03:45 PM »

Huge post to cover the prior lack. Wouldn't normally do something as big as this if not for how time pressures have sucked me out of the game. On that count, the reason this has happened is because it's the first time I've started a game during my really busy period at work. It actually started partway through Cthulhu Mafia - you'll note how I dropped off in a similar manner after my resurrection there. No call for mercy or anything, but just to explain since it seems to be confusing some people.


I'll probably provide a tl;dr summary of the important parts after this one if (when) it turns out to be too big, so feel free to skip to that unless you want to pick at the small print.

Also, I've left the players (less myself and Tai - although having said that I probably should still review him outside his case on me at some point) in starting post order, but will be writing them up in a different order (for instance, starting with Noyn because it's easy). Shouldn't matter, but might result in a few things not following on between players.


1.  Kilga

Kilga actually raised my hackles a little early on for the completely pointless spec on Noyn's votelessness, given that it was a null tell for all involved (I can see plenty of reasons for town or scum alike to apply votelessness / lower the role status of a newbie - can explain if need be but hopefully not?) and he reached bizarrely specific conclusions from it. Especially with his past self partially berating him about doing it. Twice. But sure, hot topic at the time and forewarned, so far less what led him there as the conclusions drawn being lol wut.

That aside and sidelined, solid early play. Pushes all the right buttons. Lots of key stuff, not all regurgitated from elsewhere (first thing to look out for when worried about a 'me too' ploy). Incisive and generally all in line (and yeah, almost always in complete agreement with what's being said, as already noted). If there's scum play at all it would be in anything left conspicuously unsaid, but looking for that is like five times harder than reading what he has said, and I'm comfortable enough with what I do see not to bother at this point.

Only other wurgle I'm really getting from day one (other than maybe being a little hardline on Metroid here) would be here, where QR is apparently his second top candidate despite garnering one mention earlier and lots of dialogue on others since. It's this that set off the panic alarms about buddying up to me, seeing as this mirrored my own position without evidently actually being his own. I can see how it can resolve with her being his second candidate, but wurgle wurgle wurgle.

Going into the overnight stuff, I'm boggling a bit at how quiet you (yeah, my pronouns are horribly inconsistent, but never mind) are about Alice (directly, rather than discussing other people's opinions on Alice), which on a further look pans out through most of the rest of time. I mean, bits and pieces, but far less proportionally than I'd expect given the prominence, and a little more defence than I find comfortable. Especially given that it's only Ciato's move that causes this to actually come out against the train (but I think(?) my play is probably fairly similar given how cautious I was over Laggy's super-early push on Alice as an easy target). Yeah, this is what bothers me the most about his play so far, and marring otherwise pretty solid play.


2.  Metroid Composite

Newbie play to the max, as already largely covered by myself and others. Really not a fan of the game summary posts that were breeding grounds for reporting and misrepping in particular, and the early spell of parking the vote on me before deciding it should be for low content. Generally lots of opinions I disagree with (of newest stuff, oh man 'gut feeling' that I'm worse than Tai), and often a rather strict approach as to what counts as content and not, but I still stand by it being newbie play rather than scumtainted. There are a few things that still stick out despite that, primarily the aforementioned stuff, but there's just so much erratic play in there that I can't imagine scumbuddies not pulling on the reins a bit, and even if taking that risk then something really obvious slipping out at one point or another, which I can't fish out.

I wouldn't say I'm completely comfortable with letting everything go, but as things are I can't see my vote going in this direction, as accepting it from a newbie angle I think Metroid's heart has been largely in the right place, keeping a wide outlook on the player base as a whole. The two things from today that make me stumble at all are the gut feeling (but eh, it's only bad depending on how it develops), and this back and forth with Snowfire regarding night actions, given how it conveniently reinforces the two of them, and after other similar claims had been made. I'm also a little concerned about this in general, as assuming each such case required someone else to act on them for it to happen (what happened to me last night was definitely due to someone else) then with Makkotah's downgrade we're already looking at well over half of the player base interacting and not crossing wires. But not in a way I can really pursue role analysis yet. And anyway yeah, this wurgle would be dependent on scumSnow for scumMetroid to be pushable. I'd call it off as implausible if not for Snow's defence of Metroid on top of this.

Oh, and randomly for your benefit re: Ciato NK1: Ciato's terrifyingly good at scumhunting, so it's unsurprising whenever she gets NKed, even if she couldn't be bothered with playing day 1. There's no point trying to draw anything out from it.


6.  Alice

I was overly wary about the Alice train due to Laggy's push, and Metroid to a growingly lesser degree, although obviously only in combination with a not especially negative direct impression.

Lurking is bad but almost inevitable, and top that with the aggression as expected and we'll leave those at the door. I actually find nothing wrong with a lot of his arguments posed, but then the scum by statistics theory breaks out and is utterly ridiculous. In fact yeah, once you translate it through Alice standards I actually only have an issue with that mind-boggling position of all that's been said (which I suppose in turn lessens the subsidiary suspicion held on Kilga). I think some issue was taken over him calling Glen a newbie but not Metroid? The position reads believable enough as I see it, and I'd take it as a null read regardless. That being said, 'it's Alice' is no excuse for long run low content and I'd kind of hoped that the lesson would have been learned by now, so there's only so long I can overlook the low presence.


10. Noyn

Oh, please let me call him Noyndy, even assuming that Andy doesn't fill those boots.

That is all (typical borderline modkill lurker position otherwise). I'd speculate on the possibility of the votelessness being the 'lower' state of his role and how that might of happened, but it seems super pointless to do so now.


...

Hahaha oh wow, I write as slowly as a crippled turtle with dyslexia and a streak for perfectionism. Yeah, board games happening downstairs now, and I haven't got through half the players, including all of the ones I was murkiest on. You know, the actually important ones. I'm going to continue to write the rest downstairs while the games happen, but warning that the posts may well run through into evening. (I have at least tidied the formatting a little to reflect the review only being partial)

I'm clearly totally out of whack, as I didn't think there was quite so little time left (was 30 hours intended, maybe?).

Also spoilers for current thoughts, I'm expecting to take a large gamble and move off Tai. Still don't have the slightest clue what he thinks he's doing (and has posted again, and among other things still has nothing to say about the supposedly major cherry picking meta point), but this is considering my own past performances (as in, prior experience arguing town against town and scum), horrible sportsmanship meta about how he couldn't possibly be intentionally trying to make my life so hard if he is scum, and more by how the day is shaping up so far today, or the lack thereof. It's rather early for me to be saying this, as I expect the move to be to one of the people I haven't reviewed yet. At a push I'd guess most likely Snow or maybe QRou at this point? But really, rest of the review before I get there.

13

Forum Games / Chocolate Voices Euphoria

« on: May 29, 2010, 11:23:55 AM »

Okay, morning. As of starting writing this at 10:15am I have about four hours before people start banging on my door, as much as I hope to not have to use all of that here. It's enough that I will start with the next line in the sand with Tai.

Tai! I will apologise for frustration leading to language far too aggressive to be fruitful. But that is all. It really does feel like you're trying to play some game of lawyers to shut your eyes and play semantics around my position no matter how tightly I pull you around by the nose. Hanging on for the sake of hanging on.

Right here, you summarise your biggest problems with me being cherry-picking meta, bad simplification of Laggy, and stuff regarding QRou. In fairness, in my rush at the time I did not answer the third of those, which is that I was far more willing to give Rou a blank slate for QR given QR's charges of apparently very justified absence and bad vote than with Glen for Laggy, given how much more had built up on Laggy. And even then I still had a twinge over damning Glen for Laggy's actions. Rou has then blended into several other players, which is why I actually need to go and do some reading outside of this tiny zone.

But for the other two.

Are you in any way still claiming that I cherry-picked meta? Because I'm super certain that it's clear that I didn't, and when you responded here this charge had mysteriously vanished without comment.

The other point is like frustration central, because it's like you need me to explain the need for the evocative tone of the simplification as part of drawing attention to what I want attention drawn to. It's part of the bloody oratory here. That and sticking to it being some form of misrep, which it really wasn't. Stop wriggling here as if it's some matter of subjective disagreement. Look.

At around about here, Laggy's case on Alice is for lurking, plain and simple. Yes? Okay.

Then this, his next [unborked] post comes after Snow voting for him. The modkill stuff aside, he adds the scumlurkAlice charge to his case of LaL (let's not forget that it hadn't even been 24 hours at this point, but it's irrelevant to this point). Agreed? Why yes, that's objective.

Then after my counter-example there is this. Just read that first line! "Who cares about one instance of townlurkAlice? Lurking that much is bad regardless." That's exactly what he says! Not exactly enough for you, apparently, but it's not like it even drops anything additional out of it or anything.

And then the offending line that you've clung to, located here: 'well that doesn't matter, lurking is bad'. That's what he said! And in context this was about how he dropped the meta to point vigorously back to the initial case of simple lurking. I think the only difference is that in the original line I've summed up 'one instance of townlurkAlice' to 'that', which is clear in both contexts. I think the only possible thing you can pull on at all is the later puppet show here, and that's if you're claiming that Laggy was in fact very brazenly and happily cherry-picking meta to support his case, in that the 'who cares about other cases?' there would be incorrect. In which case, lol, sorry, I guess I assumed that he'd backed down when a counter-example up to invalidate his claim, what with it never getting mentioned again and all.

But oh, no, you really are claiming that now. The 'correlation and dependence' thing is what really threw me over the edge into this being hideously desperate. It's even completely irrelevant here: Alice has lurked in every game I can think of (there's got to be a counter-example somewhere, right?), so the greater number of scumlurk nodes is only at the whims of game set up randomness. Worms mafia is the only one that comes to mind where he was / might have been active (could be misremembering - I was N1 kill there), and he was scum there. In fact, other instances of him being scum, meme mafia coming to mind for one, was of a different kind of lurking than what was on offer here and the townlurk in Cthulhu mafia. But argh, did I really need to go into so much detail here.

The other thing that got me with that post was the tone of 'let's agree to disagree... but I will use this to vote for you if need be'. In most of day 1 I'd have roughly accepted that, but not when your case has degenerated from conflicting priorities to the dodgery it is now.

...

On checking up, the one thing I got horribly wrong was the responsibility thing. I'm actually not sure how I hit that impression, as the only thing to that effect was the third paragraph pie here, taken to the effect of 'pie on my face, I was tricked'. That much I will apologise for and retract, but the apology should rather more be for trying to case-build while tired and frustrated without actually checking my sources. I was wrong!

Anyway, that took like an hour. Plenty of time left for the rest of the player base.

14

Forum Games / Carrion Crawler Triad

« on: May 29, 2010, 01:06:50 AM »

Hahahahaha.

##Vote: Taishyr

No, I can't just keep on letting the lines get redrawn and things drop out and act like this is actually going backwards and forwards. You'll forgive me for thinking that you just can't be this dumb. Maybe I'll respond to your new semantics in the morning, but it's got to the point where I swear you're just rewording things to make it seem like you don't understand something slightly different (or not at all different) for a sense of satisfaction that it makes sense for you to be able to vote for me, rather than actually giving two figs about whether I'm scum or not ("I really think he's scum! Oh, but no one else is voting for him, so eh, I guess I'll just give up" is not good for town, as depressing as it may be to be in that position). The stance is beyond credibility, and this is without looking for other things to attach to this, like how I'm not sure where you plucked Yoshiken from to draw a lynch from and random crap like how you've distanced yourself as much as possible from responsibility regarding the LagGlen mislynch. Oh how we tricked you into it.

And no, I've done zero analysis on other people so far for day 2! Maybe my vote will massively change by tomorrow. It feels like it'd take a lot though, given the in-game source of why I haven't had much chance to look elsewhere. Talk me in ever increasing circles, why not.


So, yeah, first 'proper' post in the morning, hopefully. Maybe I'll finally be able to distinguish between the like five players who have merged in my mind. Two relatively random points before I drop off to sleep:

Noyn is completely beneath my concern at this point. Okay obvious.

I'll be clear about my paranoia regarding Kilga: I've been convinced for some time that part of a potential sensible scum strategy would be to buddy up to me a ton, as it doesn't take a deep observation to spot that I'm a lot harsher on my critics. I would not place a vote based or[, hopefully,] swayed by this, but having someone agree quite so much (especially in a game where my scum hunting has been rather limited so far) has set off some panic buttons. Again, not that Kilga has necessarily done anything wrong. I just need to be careful not to go off the deep end in either direction.

15

Forum Games / Words Words Words

« on: May 28, 2010, 06:24:28 PM »

Question: what is more fun than spending most of your free time in the first game day explaining in ever finer detail a relatively simple argument and reasoning?

If your answer is 'to continue explaining the reasoning in even finer detail in the following game day' then please do not invite me to your parties! It sure looks I won't be going to any of Tai's parties any time soon.

I will respond to these prompts unless they get really out of hand, but man is this tedious. Plus it's constantly distracting me from actually scum hunting, and frankly it's how limited I've been in that respect that I should be getting slammed for if anything, not this. This'll all but certainly suck up the free time I have today. Also Tai, you're a smart guy and all. I'd taken this for a simple misunderstanding and a difference in priorities, but the deeper this goes the less this looks like ignorance and more it looks like feigning ignorance.

Quickly first: Makkotah: Sure, Laggy removed his vote from Alice as soon as he was effectively forced to by a mod prod, but at the point of the post in question I think he was trying to force the evidence to make the case stick, because sure, who couldn't have predicted Alice as an easy lurker target for day 1?

Tai: I'll counter your bullet points with my own super-indented ones, to try and keep things clear. They hopefully correspond 1:1.

• I don't think I have anything to respond to here? I think you're just claiming that my meaning wasn't clear, which I say it is, what with my directly countering his argument.
• I did not cherry pick meta. I provided a counter-example to Laggy's use of meta to prove that it didn't prove anything. Come on dude, please tell me you're not seriously contending that.
  What didn't happen:
  Laggy: Alice has scumlurked before, therefore he is likely to be scum now!
  Xanth: But actually Alice has townlurked before, therefore he is likely to be town now!
  
  What did happen:
  Laggy: Alice has scumlurked before, therefore he is likely to be scum now!
  Xanth: But actually Alice has also townlurked before, therefore metagaming isn't particularly useful here!
  
  You also seem to still not understand why my vote drifted on to Laggy in the first place. The early LaL thing isn't something you can just write off as a difference in play styles. It's an incredibly easy place to divert a vote in the early part of - well, any day, really, if it's the sort that just lets up the instant said person talks, but in particular early-ish day one where it is completely without merit. LaL is a good principal, but you've got to understand why it's a good tool for scumhunting, and that it's very easy for scum to hide behind it when it's not actually helping town (no, I don't simply mean when the lurker in question is town). It's like hey, I did this, why did I do this? It's because it's LaL and that's therefore good for town. Bad behaviour easily excused! If you define this as a conflict of play styles, then yes, yes I will vote for bad/scummy play styles, and so should you. Bonus irony for this being about Alice's lurking.
  
  In any case, this is actually a step backwards from where you originally went after me, which was that I took this position and went for Laggy rather than QRou, the rationale being that Laggy explained himself better than QRou. That's actually a misinterpretation in and of itself, given that LaL is the explanation and not the action to explain. I was hardly happy with QRou's stealthy little peek in there, but far worse was Laggy trying to cover it with as much evidence he could slap on it, no matter how bad it was. You claim any explanation is better than nothing, I say that an explanation with wafting tones of scumtells is worse. I doubt it can resolve further than that.
• The pot did not come into contact with the kettle. There is a restraining order out on the kettle due to inappropriate spillage.
  
  By which I mean, they're completely different. I squeezed the essence of what he said, in an unflattering but evocative way, sure, whereas people completely misrepped what I was saying. Need me to put my kettle in politer terms to make the pot look darker than black? Okay. Here

Laggy wheels out the meta against Alice as a point against him, having already been on him for general lurker charges. Here I reference a game where in fact he townlurked, which pops his meta argument to a null tell. Here Laggy suddenly doesn't care about particular previous instances, because lurking is bad in general. His argument goes from lurking to lurking + metalurktells and then back to lurking flustered like it didn't matter as a result of me producing a counter example. Tell me how my representation of that was in any way misrepresentation of the content (not tone).

And in the case of the contracted pot, I've already discussed that at some point. Can't be bothered to go find it now, but it was in response to Metroid. My points and what several people were taking as my points were very crucially different.

• Don't think there's anything to respond to here either. Thanks for painting 'uncertainty' as 'wriggle room', though. It's like you're telling me that it's bad that I haven't outright cleared Metroid for acting like a newbie. Sorry!
• Again, don't think there's anything you wanted me to respond to here. Regarding the deadline, I was tired, and frankly I find it surprising I had the motivation to even try and set up a swap. I didn't like the feeling of the LagGlen lynch as it approached, but disliked the other frontrunning cases more. Your offer of Yoshiken just didn't make any sense to take, so I stuck with the case I at least had the most logic behind, regardless of the bad feeling. This is where actually having had the time to parse people more would have helped immensely, as I would have had a much easier time knowing who to go for. But hey, bank holiday weekend is here, so if this is taken as an excuse then I'm soon going to have my foot in my mouth with all of this free time.
• (this point for the unbulleted summary at the end) It boils down to cherry picking meta and simplifying Laggy's explanation, does it? Well, good! Because I didn't do either of those things. Well, not in a bad way.

Holy crap I should have left ages ago.

16

Forum Games / Dice Gauntlet Flavouring

« on: May 27, 2010, 11:55:15 PM »

Thursday and Friday are worst for me. Luckily this has been half-burned on the night phase (although as a result I haven't generated anything new in the meantime), but a note I won't really be here until Saturday morning (~32 hours from now), at which point go figure I'll have plenty of time. I have a small gap in my schedule tomorrow, though, so may be able to be on tomorrow afternoon (~18 hours from now).

Oh, and someone appears to have acted on me last night. The wording implies it was positive (or at least not negative), so I'm just throwing this out should it need to be claimed later. Certainly do not want whoever it was to claim it or explain the result of said action.

Ninjas with lots of stuff but also similar claim of being acted upon: oh okay, guess this might be fairly common.

Oh, and Tai's still belittling my case on Laggy and reducing it to just the meta cherry picking again. Okay.

Need to stop before I keep reading everything and end up losing yet more sleep this week.

17

Forum Games / Bacon Cake Lubricant

« on: May 26, 2010, 11:37:01 PM »

Tired.

So much for my plan.

I can't back a swap to Yoshiken. He doesn't come out even remotely as bad as at least Laggy of LagGlen. Is it supposed to be some sort of cunning level of lurking? Because I guess I've mostly forgotten the guy exists in the game, but can't say I find the details terrible. Not that I've really discussed any of that. Ugh.

Rou: it's not a hammer vote, so sure. We're not in sudden death or anything. I'm in Kilga's camp of wariness on the Alice train, but the top thing to avoid is getting Hatbotted out of a proper paper trail.

Ninja: Oh okay.

Then another ninja. I can see where this is going.

18

Forum Games / Animal Phlegm Current

« on: May 26, 2010, 11:12:22 PM »

Still distracted and still re-reading.

A little uncomfortable without back up on the move as we're currently in Hatbot realms and my move would put Alice out in front, which is rather defeatist.

19

Forum Games / Drop Fastener Bounty

« on: May 26, 2010, 10:38:45 PM »

I'm unwilling to go for Ciato. Fairly general principal working from the risk of losing a major town player if wrong, and I'm not nearly sure enough here.

I could be up for Yoshi, though. Give me a bit to re-read.

20

Forum Games / Glass Oar Personification

« on: May 26, 2010, 10:19:00 PM »

Kilga: well, truth be told that's partially why I've been suspicious of the Rat train, and the Alice train less so. (what's QR got to do with Ciato? Rou replaced QR)

Having said that, the way the lynch is approaching isn't filling me with much hope for scumLagGlen, now I look at it. Not much of a rush to save or damn him for bonus points. Late day stagnation is rarely with a scum at the top.

I'm considering options out of right field to second guess this, but can't / have yet to settle on anyone looking scummy enough to try and rush. Thoughts?

21

Forum Games / Truffle Vine Fountain

« on: May 26, 2010, 09:58:26 PM »

Taishyr: I'm not really sure what else to say other than to agree to disagree. The cherry picking, however, is elementary: using the metagaming that backed his case while conveniently ignoring the meta that contradicted it. Very simple, very bad. The reaction to this being pointed out being to basically just drop the meta reasoning as if it never existed just makes it worse. You're supposed to mold your case to fit the evidence, not mold the evidence to fit the case, and town has no reason to be doing the latter (yes it happens often enough, usually from tunnelling, OMGUS or the like, but this was nothing like that). Alarm bells! Alarm bells!

Metroid reviewing Metroid is kind of getting beyond silly. I've no clue what that's even supposed to be for, other than for positive reinforcement, which is again scum-leaning. Quite the lean at that, even ignoring the obvious silly WIFOM stuff. It's like an immediate question as to how much can the newbie card be pushed before my vote needs to go down.

Alice's 'scum by statistics' is utter bollocks and a weird thing to stick to (you may as well generate an arbitrary set of four people not including yourself and assume that one of them is scum (yes I'm assuming three scum, not that it's affected anything I've done yet)), but don't have the same reaction to the aggressiveness that's coming out elsewhere, as it's fairly standard Alice by my mark.

...

Urgh, getting horribly distracted here. Let's get this out before another ten posts beat it into the thread. I'd certainly be happier with an Alice lynch than a Metroid or Rat lynch, but I'm not really feeling the need for a last minute wobble with LagGlen out in front.

22

Forum Games / Dullahan Heartcatch Railgun

« on: May 26, 2010, 08:00:19 PM »

Right. I said I'd be back for this evening, and here I am. Couldn't really do anything during lunch, but did at least get to read a bit. I need to get dinner, but before I disappear for that, the immediately important opinions regarding the current vote standings:

It tears at me to condemn a man for the sins of the father, especially quite so early on, even with the relatively strong feeling I was building from Laggy. That said, if the other options are Metroid and Rat then my hand is forced regardless.

I'll take another look at the arguments against Rat, but of all of the players he's the one I've found myself agreeing with the most and seriously doubt I'll see the merit in his lynch.

I've already made it clear that I get an unaided newbie read from Metroid, although would swap my vote if it would save Rat. I'll need to read the latest material before I can say for sure, but my brewing concern is in over-playing the hapless newbie card the instant it started to push votes away. May be off the mark, though, let me actually digest the posts before I get back on that.

But let's see if it's worth starting a new train or not as well. Last minute pile ups are always fun, right?


Whatever happens, let's be careful not to end the day with a tie, what with Hatbotting rather than Sudden Death. There'll be thumbs to break if we leave it to random chance.



Of completely random note, I'm getting a little weirded out by how much Kilga's been agreeing with me. No, not making an alignment observation out of that. Just weird. Anyway, dinner then deadline.

23

Forum Games / Beeswax Garter Grade

« on: May 26, 2010, 12:21:06 AM »

Okay, so dinner turned into actually being sociable. Oops. Let's see how far I get before I fall asleep in the chair.

A note first: after this comes sleep, then the same very short period between me waking up and leaving the house. Not that most of you guys need to be coordinating the deadline yet or anything, but my next real appearance will be in the few hours leading up to (and including) it.

...

Metroid: 'He's metagaming'. 'He's cherry picking evidence to fit an argument'. One of these has no hope of getting any support at all. Likewise with the LaL stuff. The distinction is major, and dragged discussion off in the wrong direction. Anyway, the points in #51 I was referring to were 'anti-LAL stance' (1), 'voting Laggy for the same reasons as Snowfire' (2) and 'dislikes Laggy metagaming' (2 1/2). The latter in that while it's technically true, it's not the spirit of the meaning. I'd've called it a straight up three if not for wanting to avoid the semantics.

Anyway, on pondering Metroid the point that's really made me stay my vote is that it just doesn't feel like a sensible scum gambit. I mean sure, lots of activity and blather and vote delay and all that, but I just don't see the coordination or purpose behind it. Flighty high profile arguments that get immediate scrutiny does not make for a safe scum start. Not sure I can so easily see the gambit played on a relatively new player. It's not something I can afford to let go for long, but I can hold to it in the vacuous hole that is the day one crapshoot at least.

Laggy on the other hand looks about as bad as can realistically be at this point. Overplayed argument followed by the flusterbus when last I commented on the situation, following up with some fairly solid game theory help - otherwise known as looking helpful and townie without actually being helpful and townie when combined with little else - the vote hoping, the unvote without re-vote (yes I think that's bad in this situation), and then some good old fashioned absence. Not that I'd hold quite so much against the timeframe of the latter yet, in fairness.

...

(mod ninja)

lol wut. One of my top pair goes and fair enough, but now the other?

I mean, totally not your fault, guys. Obviously. QR especially I hope recovers quick and that attempting this game at all didn't add more stress or anything. But yeah, vexing in game.

I'd say that kills my motivation to do any more this evening, but given that I'm taking Roukanken as a blank slate from QR's lurkiness, I'd basically come to settle on Laggy, as much as I guess at least the absence has now been explained. I'd move away, but there's enough there already that I don't think I can easily justify jumping off. Other than Metroid, who I've just convinced myself doesn't need pursuing today, I guess I'd be looking at Makkotah or Yoshiken, but mostly from other people's rationale. I get the impression that Makkotah has just made a bit of a mess out of the day (I'm not sure how scum fake-explaining my argument would particularly work). Can't say I'm getting great vibes from Yoshiken, but nor particularly terrible ones, but maybe that's just because I'm nodding along to things like his Laggy material.

So, uh, yeah, a bit of a mess here.

I've stayed up far too late to stand a chance of doing anything in the morning, but given how messy this has suddenly becomes I'll try and sneak on at lunchtime to get an extra chance at this.

24

Forum Games / Rainbow House Type

« on: May 25, 2010, 08:13:01 PM »

Tai: sure, I disliked QR's move and made it plain enough, but the short of it is that a terribad explanation for a bad mechanical move is worse than none at all. What part of cherry picking the metagame process (again, not simply metagaming, which it seems to have devolved to (#42, #51, #53, #54, etc.), and support in general principal) doesn't cause alarm bells to go off? Or trying so much to make an early day one case stick like that? Not to mention if we zoom out a little and see the context of "lurking is terrible! Alice has scumlurked multiple times in the past!", "What about the time Alice townlurked?", "Who cares about other games? Lurking is terrible!" and see how slipshod that hastily pasted position was. And has since climbed down more than once. Okay, Laggy boarding the flusterbus wasn't why I put my vote down, but my point is that I hold that there are worse explanations than [effectively] none at all (and let's not forget that 'apply LaL' is the first level explanation in and of itself).

Metroid: as above and other posts. My vote was (is? Still catching up) not simple game theory, and I made it nice and clear who my top two suspects were.

...

Actually going through the thread now...

...

#41: Metroid's vote on Tai is terrible, and worse based on the current rationale for voting me.

#48 Makkotah: ohnomoregametheoryfrommebut mod kills are actually usually pro-town, on account of town having a limited number of lynches and mod kills only waste 'half' a lynch apiece, and remove players that would otherwise need lynching anyway. While it's perhaps worth noting the 4th joke vote down on the same person, it's absolutely not a position to be actually worried about.

#51 (Metroid's big player action summary): very much in Rat's (#55) camp with regards to this, except more so as a convenient vehicle for misrep than it is for reporting (not to understate the reporting that is present). I count two and a half pieces of incorrect information on myself alone, and that's being generous. It's funny how these 'objective' reviews of play can gain such spin on them so easily. This is also different to day 1 Peyton in Cthulhu Mafia, as Snowfire gets around to using in defence here (#96), in that Peyton tempered the walls of text with an inclusive tl;dr summary, rather than summarising a summary of the game so far with reporting.

#55: while I'm passing by this post, I'd like to point out the position on LaL here. Much like how my 'cherry picking meta' was sliced down to 'anti-meta', my position against starting a game with LaL, which Rat has supported here, has been reduced to 'anti-LaL'. Very different things! Important and dangerous differences.

#54: QR generates some null reads and gets back on a steady diet of LaL. It's okay, though, because she comes back and... oh, no, that is in fact all so far. :sad face:

#65 (Makkotah puts words in Xanth's mouth): No. Not even close.

...

In fact yeah, go figure this is getting big. Time to scrap this approach and start again with bullet points for people rather than posts. Probably after dinner.

In spoilers, however: Laggy and QR remain at the top, for almost completely opposite reasons despite first getting flagged for doing the same thing. Metroid has joined them, partly for words:content, reporting and misrep, and partly for the underlying theme of vote delaying (that part much the same as QR, without the lurking). As an OMGUS accusation grows ripe (although really, I'm always hard on this stuff), I'll point out that I don't have any immediate beef with Tai, who at least appears to be parking on me due to a difference in priorities, which I can at least understand, except maybe in using Metroid's position to strengthen his own.

25

Forum Games / Manticore Exile Honeymoon

« on: May 25, 2010, 06:44:53 PM »

Right, I'm back home and should have the time for something decent enough. Before I get to that, though:

lol, metroid, just lol. That's bad and you should feel bad about it.