Messages

1

Forum Games / Re: My-Hime Mafia

« on: December 11, 2008, 10:07:23 AM »

Well, I don't think I have much to say on my end.  I would attribute part of my inactivity to the fact that the peak hours are during my sleep, but overall I didn't play too well, and really didn't feel up to building up full cases on anyone.  El-Cideon gets the MVP in my book due to pretty much nailing Sopko and luring a bullet, as someone has said above. 

2

Forum Games / Re: My-Hime Mafia

« on: December 09, 2008, 04:29:18 PM »

I tried my best to defend myself, and I simply wanted a response from Kiro before I wanted to do anything else.  I really did think my arguments were valid, but if town thinks they aren't, then they aren't.
 
Before I die, what's the glayven-HOYVEN?

3

Forum Games / Re: My-Hime Mafia

« on: December 09, 2008, 02:56:16 PM »

Well, I'm simply vanilla town and I won't hang myself.  That much is certain.

And yes, I do feel offended by silence.  People ask questions to get answers, and whether you think they are scum or not, you are obliged to answer.  I do consider myself, in fact, at the very least, a semi-rational townie, and if I genuinely fail to understand, and want to have something to respond to, then the response must come from your lips.  In my eyes, these things are far from rhetorical, and furthermore, it's simply common courtesy.  Silence provides no distinction between thinking whether a question is inherently silly, or whether it's something you can't answer, and cannot be considered an excuse for anything, really.  Allows for no difference between, say, you and UK.

In fact, even if you think that your responses are impossible to refute, then you're going to have to second-check that assumption.

First of all, ##Unvote.  Made the vote thinking there was a potential hole, but there's probably only one scum left from the looks of it.  I'm sorry for being a bird-brain there.

I point out that it can be turned around, then you say my turnaround is useless because "it can go either way.

Soppy's play was a weaksauce attempt to tie himself to me, scumbuddies had to know this and would likely call him on it, but early, so it wouldn't have much effect, before it snowballed into a serious case.

It sounded more like a point against me rather than a turnaround.  Likely is the word you seemed to use, but 'likely' means more probable.  I simply don't think so, it should be 50-50 after what you raised.

That doesn't make arguing for my lynch any less scummy, since I am in fact town and scum would want me dead most of all.

Just as suspicious townies would want you dead thinking that you were scum.  With only this alone, I doubt you can differentiate between scum knowing that you were cop trying to kill you, and town being concerned about you as suspicious.  Unless you can raise the issue of tone and wording, this point can only be used as completeness' sake and frankly, doesn't tell us anything on it's own.

Strago didn't blatantly call out the NK as supposedly pointing to me as scum.

Just as you used 'likely' and 'who', I used 'pointing', which I meant 'very slightly and vaguely'.

---

Scumhunting point.  Hm, you were second-last on Sopko's bandwagon and you merely agreed on Bardiche.  Anyone awed by long posts can do that and quote a random part of text and what you could have done is to ask Bard questions directly.  There were possibilities of concerns by others, such as Corwin, that the case was all LAL and not much more, and you could have done, for example, what Strago had done on page 13.  Therefore, I had the reasons to say things about your scumhunting, you're simply not the example of it this game, and neither have I, but that's another matter.

I'll move back to Kiro.

##Vote: Kiro

4

Forum Games / Re: My-Hime Mafia

« on: December 09, 2008, 09:33:40 AM »

EBWOP: ##Unvote, ##Vote: SirAlex

This might seem like an OMGUS, but lynching the deaf is a rather solid thing to do.

5

Forum Games / Re: My-Hime Mafia

« on: December 09, 2008, 09:30:55 AM »

EBWOP: yesterday?  When you yourself have said what you said?  You have merely quoted my act and judged it skin-deep, so has been your all-encompassing claim of "I don't think it's wrong for me to be lynched". 

As to everyone else, even to those who have their votes on me, Alex's failure to answer questions and his apparent flair for leaving half-hearted points of accusation on me cannot be excused by him dubiously claiming cop.  Note how the head of the nodding donkey moves, both on the Bardiche case, to some extent on the EvilTom case, and mine.  Critical thinking has to be be applied to all the points one agrees with, and cannot be accepted just like "he definitely looks worse now".  The irony of the content-less criticizing people for lack of content shows itself deeply, and it is up to everyone else to at the very least, consider this and respond.  On logical reasons of probability alone, I wouldn't vote him, but the fact that he feels strangely aloof all game makes him, to me, a WIFOM I cannot allow.

##Vote: SirAlex

6

Forum Games / Re: My-Hime Mafia

« on: December 09, 2008, 09:20:26 AM »

You in, turn, are saying absolutely nothing at all and are responding to none of the things that I have raised, dropping not even so much as a reason for this.  You're have been a nodding donkey all game, and unfortunately for you, deafness has being added on to your list of symptoms.  So has been your failure to scumhunt.

Again, I repeat.  Why implicate me and not Strago for your second point, and why do you see me as scummy for arguing for your lynch? 

7

Forum Games / Re: My-Hime Mafia

« on: December 09, 2008, 07:58:39 AM »

It is made very clear Alex is talking about whose content Affinity is satisfied with, given Kiro gets a pass from Affinity.

Oh, is it?  My mistake, though I don't remember 'content' being a person (this is a grammatical error on his part and so it's his mistake too).  He should have said "whose content is he not fine with," making it clearer.  I thought he was referring to people.  It was a little convincing, really.

The answer to this is, none.  If there is anyone, it's my content.  But I doubt that thinking that everyone's content is fine is inherently scummy.  While I accept that Kiro's posts usually go unnoticed except for the fact that, well, they are there, I find them alright.  He has given his views on every single case so far and has contributed suggestions to town in so many of his posts that I'm not going to bother linking one.  The thing that he did not, howver, clearly take, were convincing stances on day two and to some extent, three. 

8

Forum Games / Re: My-Hime Mafia

« on: December 09, 2008, 07:14:11 AM »

there's an intent to want to off Alex on Day 3 and not give him a chance to pull out more investigations even though we had good leeway at the time

Well, this is curious.  How do you differentiate the 'intent to want to off' Alex with the 'intent to simply root out scum as quickly as possible'?  As for good leeway, I simply did not want him (if he was scum) to produce investigations until LyLo, where he magically pulls out scum from his hat, and I severely questioned that.  Also, see the theory I had about what El-Cideon's plan was here.  His death opposed to Alex's was unsettling.

Affinity was also pretty keen to jump on the ceremonial hammer of Tom, purposely trying to beat out Andrew for it.

This, I can't explain, other than the 'novelty' aspect of wanting to hammer for once and that I was pretty much disillusioned with Tom to the point of lynch.  I acknoledge that I could have waited though, but whether or not he would have responded satisfactorily with all his sins chalked up, I'm doubtful.

I also don't get your reasoning for voting me above. I may have issues, but you're not addressing them yourself even if I happen to be the next "easiest" case for a lynch.

My vote was more towards a prod, seeing that you did not answer this point for very very long though it has been hanging in the air via Andrew.  The reasoning is the same as his which I didn't see the need to parrot, and calling my vote unreasonable is rather silly for that matter.  Vote on you stays.

9

Forum Games / Re: My-Hime Mafia

« on: December 09, 2008, 06:04:17 AM »

Argued hard for lynching me on previous days

If you're calling me out for that, then I shall point this against you if I wasn't convinced you're cop.  You said you were expecting to be lynched, and from my understanding, that implies that you are really fine with being lynched, going so far as to call it objectively alright.  This dramatic change of heart must reflect something, and I'm not willing to treat this as a valid reason by itself.  Furthermore, my points against you were valid.

pointing this out just to make sure we get it, alongside Bard's final callout

What?  Firstly, why not Strago?

Was first to call out Sopko, and it didn't have much effect - Soppy's play was a weaksauce attempt to tie himself to me, scumbuddies had to know this and would likely call him on it, but early, so it wouldn't have much effect, before it snowballed into a serious case.

This is possible, but this could go either way.

But if Affinity is, who isn't he fine with?

AndrewRouge for his response, and Kiro and Corwin for their lack of votes.  This isn't really new, however.

10

Forum Games / Re: My-Hime Mafia

« on: December 09, 2008, 04:32:49 AM »

Judging from the way Alex has been revealing his results, and his early vote on Bard yesterday,I think I was massively wrong about Alex as well as Bardiche.  Still vaguely suspicious is scum's choice of NK, why aren't they doing the obvious?  It's, well, pointing towards Alex as scum, but after three days of investiagtions, I'm quite ready to trust Alex on my part too.

Also, I felt the framer thing was pretty clever, didn't think of that.

It seems that scum do not have a roleblocker; in that case, I agree with Xanth that logically speaking, town is sure to win this time provided that Alex isn't scum.  Andrew was at the top of my list going into today as per Excal's reasons and his (to me) unsatisfactory response to the Bardiche point, but I'm afraid that Alex simply doesn't have any reason to lie about his alignment.  I haven't been playing well (whether I'm town or scum) throughout the game, as Andrew pointed out, and I'm alright with being today's lynch given the above, though I'm town.  Standard of play on this board seems substantially higher than that of MotK.  All I can say in my 'defense' was that I was the first to call out Sopko, though it didn't have much effect, regrettably.

If I'm not wrong, the last time Kiro voted was for me, at the beginning of day 2.  That's something to be concerned about.  I'm alright with him content-wise, though.

##Vote: Kiro

Excal looks good to me due to the fact that he voted for Sopko early (contributing quite an amount to the train), and that at the beginning of day two, he displayed some idea of critical thinking in choosing Alex over Xanth in being the target for day two, which slightly towards town in my opinion.  I can't say anything about him not voting Bardiche at all for obvious reasons.  His swtich to Tom, however, seemed slightly forced, but Bardiche's focus on Excal is... rather telling.

Strago, presence was strong in Day One and two, on day three, not so much.  Same goes to Corwin, I guess.  Am not sure what to think of them now.

11

Forum Games / Re: My-Hime Mafia

« on: December 08, 2008, 02:25:05 AM »

@Andrew:

Just wondering, but why would you consider Kiro as passive/lacking?  He does give his own share of good opinions too, I feel, at least as much as you do, especially on the Excal/Bard case, and that comment seems rather interesting.  Myself, and Bardiche, I can more or less understand to some extent.  It would be nice if you could describe 'lacking' for all three cases, though.

One thing I would like to point out is that I don't quite understand the scum Framer role (am quite new to this), except that he can target a person (say Xanth) and frame him as scum.  How does this refute the Alex is town => Xanth is town logic?  And even if so, how would another investigation help in your determining of Alex's alignment?  It seems rather contradictory; I doubt him investigating Xanth was very obvious, after all.

Mmhmm... Apparently, the reason why we're lacking is because you don't read.  ##Unvote, ##Vote: AndrewRogueOh, and the above sounds rather forced and very ungenuine.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with sticking with a vote especially when the person you're voting isn't responding.  I can see that, if you criticize his reasoning for such, then yes sure, but you're criticizing him for not bandwagon-hopping.  This is rather silly, and you don't look good to me now.  If anything, I would criticize him for changing his vote when nothing in the situation called for it... it would look like scum trying to make his lynch stick without good reasons especially since Excal didn't say anything (correct me if I'm wrong).  In short, reasoning for your vote sounds rather contrived.

12

Forum Games / Re: My-Hime Mafia

« on: December 07, 2008, 02:11:15 PM »

@Andrew:

Just wondering, but why would you consider Kiro as passive/lacking?  He does give his own share of good opinions too, I feel, at least as much as you do, especially on the Excal/Bard case, and that comment seems rather interesting.  Myself, and Bardiche, I can more or less understand to some extent.  It would be nice if you could describe 'lacking' for all three cases, though.

One thing I would like to point out is that I don't quite understand the scum Framer role (am quite new to this), except that he can target a person (say Xanth) and frame him as scum.  How does this refute the Alex is town => Xanth is town logic?  And even if so, how would another investigation help in your determining of Alex's alignment?  It seems rather contradictory; I doubt him investigating Xanth was very obvious, after all.

---

@Xanth:

Could you explain why Andrew is so high up your list?

---

@Bardiche:

Throughout the game, you have more or less focused only on the people attacking you; thus the spirit of the cornered wombat, with the exception of Excal.  What do you think of everyone else? 

13

Forum Games / Re: My-Hime Mafia

« on: December 06, 2008, 12:47:30 PM »

now with more moot points on the Alex 'cop or scum' table now

I fail to see how these are 'moot' and I'm confused as to how you're clearing Alex as a 'definite' cop.  Him not exactly scumhunting correctly has to be at the very least, a valid point which you have failed to consider.  The story of 'hedious risk' still does not convince me at all; it is simply a gamble that can pay of huge dividends if it works and even if it doesn't and someone counterclaims, scum can still defend, and it is all the more irritating that you endorse staunchly as an excuse to call everything against him moot.

Also, the post you linked, what I meant was that if you just gave me a hypothetical scenario of a claimed cop and a person singled out as scum by him, with no reference to anything argumentative, I would lynch the claimed cop first.  That is what I meant by 'logic alone', if I didn't have a chance to see their posts or anything and such to determine their alignments. 

some points need to be hammered repeatedly to convince him

The misrepresentation point was an honest mistake and I apologize for that.  But it was relatively minor I feel, and I don't see you justified in using plural form.

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Forum Games / Re: My-Hime Mafia

« on: December 06, 2008, 10:52:10 AM »

@Kiro:

I disagree on this because if he's a Cop, he can and should first rely on his investigative result.

Well, not so for yesterday, where he had no idea with regards to his sanity.  When in such situations, you have to scumhunt first, then check back with your result and make judgments as to your sanity, not just pushing ahead with your result hoping that you're sane.  He did ask the question as to who's likely town and scum, but nothing else other than that, quite plainly.

@Corwin:

Affinity here seems to be saying, in his second paragraph, "I think Alex is genuinely a cop. But he's playing badly and not looking for scum the way he should be, so let's lynch him."

Well, sorry if I was unclear, but no, I'm not sure, by any means, that he's not scum.  In fact, my argument was pointing towards the conclusion that he is likely scum.

---

As for Bardiche, I agree that he's on the losing side of the spat with Kilga, but I don't think it necessarily point towards him being scum, due to the defense of 'playstyle' which I find rather irritating (reminds me of UK).  The taking of fluid stances doesn't really tell us anything, sure, and is definitely leading towards scum, but I'm willing to treat his Excal vote on day two as more townie than scummy in my book, since I did face a similar situation before as townie.  He has also tried to scumhunt, unlike some other people.  Furthermore, no offensive actions that have directly hurt town.  Therefore, no, not at the top of my piorities now. 

---

Alex's response seems to help a little, making a valid point about trying to argue for EvilTom's lynch and failing, but I think the ending's a little too symphathetic to my tastes.  A reread might be in question.

15

Forum Games / Re: My-Hime Mafia

« on: December 06, 2008, 01:05:00 AM »

Personally, I think it's El-Cid's way of determining whether or not Alex was scum.  If Alex as a real cop had tried to investigate El-Cid during the night (and El-Cid wasn't NK'ed), he would report "townie" and he would be sure that Alex is town.  If Alex as scum just blindly said that El-Cid was 'scum' (after all, they have no way to know of his miller status), then he would claim and we'll all lynch Alex and such.

That being said, ##Vote: SirAlex

Being a cop does not relieve anyone of their scumhunting duties, and to be honest, Alex is more or less passing off as a nodding donkey with regards to cases on Xanth and recently, Bardiche.  The only example of scumhunting I've seen him do so far is the asking of 'who do you think is most scummy?' towards EvilTom to have an idea of who would be scum assuming he flips scum, but even after then, he seems to be relying on the force of his investigation result alone to make everyone wagon him.  If he speaks of himself as a good scumhunter (and I think this too), then why not conceal the result and try to ascertain alignments through argumentative methods and more investigations alone?  For fear of being NK'ed?  Well, he wasn't NK'ed last night.

Also, there isn't necessarily another cop in the game too.

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Forum Games / Re: My-Hime Mafia

« on: December 05, 2008, 04:06:35 AM »

I really doubt we are going to get anywhere else here without a flip. So. Are we ready for a hammer?

I guess Tom and town are on different frequencies now.  In the end, it's really not very easy to differentiate between town-Tom and scum-Tom, and since I remain unconvinced by his responses, I guess this is the only choice for today.  Apparently, this is the first time I ever hammered anyone.

##Unvote
##Vote: Dread Thomas

17

Forum Games / Re: My-Hime Mafia

« on: December 05, 2008, 03:55:13 AM »

If you see something suspicious, you shouldn't ignore it in favour of railroading one person!

This is true.  However, the thing you count as suspicious, lurking, cannot compare to the (apparently) substantial cases you have on Alex and Xanth.  When I saw you vote Corwin just because of that, it felt as if you were scum shuffling around trying to pin suspicion onto someone else.  Case in point:

continuing to go after Alex was useless.

Sounds as if it was from a scum's perspective, rather than townie's.  

It's pretty obvious what ScumAlex gains, he's no longer taking heat (he was coming under heavy fire), and he never has to commit to anything (claim roleblock/the NK target).

This is true, but they are all short-term when compared to tomorrow, where he would be placed under heavy scrutiny.  But I guess I do see your point with the 'insanity' out he could use tomorrow if he were scum.

So you're saying if I flip scum, you'd consider that Alex was scumbussing me? That's very unlikely.

It's still a possibility that I won't leave out; two of the games I have played involved this one way or the other, and you indirectly supporting Alex on this one point is really... weird.

18

Forum Games / Re: My-Hime Mafia

« on: December 05, 2008, 12:07:01 AM »

@Xanth: All in all, I think your sentence structure could be made a little clearer.  I don't think I have been interpreting some of the things you have been saying correctly in that case.

Also, I find my questions directed at others not being answered, but ah well.

---

Alright, I guess I have to comment on this copclaim.  Tom looks worse for the arbitary vote on Corwin as opposed to Alex, and not answering my question as to how El-Cid's argument is completely right, the same offense he's being calling Alex for.  He's just been saying that he's argument is, erm, 99% right.  Seriously, if he sounds so convinced that Alex and Xanth are scum, then why vote for Corwin?  There are only two scum left, after all (most probably), and this act is extremely, extremely ungeniune, especially since he didn't point this out himself.  Also, just as he says that Xanth seems deadset on lynching him and not paying attention to what he's been saying, he has, at the same time, seem to write him off as a liar and did not respond to some of Xanth's misrep points, as Kilga has pointed out.

But he does make the good logical argument that based on logic alone, lynching Alex is the better option, and he gains points for that.  Tom doesn't explain what Alex has to gain, though, and I myself don't see it.

Overall, I'm more towards lynching Tom than Alex (rather predictably), but even if Tom flips scum, I'm not willing to write him off as townie just yet.

19

Forum Games / Re: My-Hime Mafia

« on: December 04, 2008, 09:47:38 AM »

No, I wasn't attacked last night, I guess.  Just a short post for the moment.

20

Forum Games / Re: My-Hime Mafia

« on: December 04, 2008, 05:40:49 AM »

@El-Cid:  The issue I find with your case is that most of the points are more reliant on what Soppy has been doing, and not Xanth.  For points three to five in your post, Xanth could have might as well been a paper doll that Sopko had just happened to choose, and nothing would have changed.  As to how, I'll leave Xanth to defend himself.

Points one and two are valid in my opinion, though, I'm interested to see what Xanth has to say.

@EvilTom:  Do you completely agree with what El had said?  If yes, which points do you think are more important and such?

21

Forum Games / Re: My-Hime Mafia

« on: December 04, 2008, 01:43:38 AM »

Alright, I'm sorry for being absent.  Apparently, time zone differences ensure that most of the actions happen in my sleep; when I woke up, 2 pages of text were added, and I didn't have a chance to post.

Personally, I think EvilTom is not too bad, even though I disagree with his 'manipulation point', a few things pointed out by Xanth and others, failure to admit mistakes, and the attitude that it is perfectly fine to do something wrong as long as someone else is doing it here.  Of course, he is not cleared by any means.  Xanth, howver, sounds a little worse to me.  He has raised many many valid points towards Tom, but his overall tone of voice is much more grating than Tom's, especially in this paragraph, and less sincere

Xanth: first you said you were on Kilga's side. Then you said Kilga didn't have a side. That was the odd contradiction.

Big inconsistency right here, people. Check the end of Tom's post here for where he claims I've contradicted myself. You'll note that not only does the quotation in question have nothing to do with Kilga, the post where I say that 'Kilga had no side', but this second quote he's now using to justify this contradition comes after the post where he claims there's a contradition. In fact, it was in the same post where I respond to that claim. Try again.

Calling it a 'big inconsistency' is rather dubious due to the fact that I genuinely believed that you made a contradiction there and I would have made that point if I was around. Also, note the contrast between how Tom said what he wanted to say and how Xanth did.  If we're talking about honest mistakes, it is much more easily abscribed to say, Tom, then Xanth in my opinion.  So if I had to vote between these two, I would vote him.

---

As for my thoughts on yesterday's lynch, I'm perfectly fine with it.  Not that it really means much, but I did point out that Sopko had been making rather shady comments and such first.  I'm not too suspect about say, Xanth's late jump into the bandwagon, since it was quite valid to suspect me over him (my apologies).  

As for Bardiche, I still don't see the shallow commentary style abscribed to him so far in this game, though I do agree that he hasn't been putting solid votes and stances on others.  So, I would extend the question by Alex to you, who do you think is the top three scum now and why?  

Strago seems rather fine to me; I'm alright with his response, but I still wouldn't really want to dismiss the jump at Tom as 'off-the-cuff thinking' and I'll keep that in mind if needed, I guess.

22

Forum Games / Re: My-Hime Mafia

« on: December 02, 2008, 01:31:43 AM »

##Unvote
##Vote: Strago

Personally, I think Tom made a joke, and that people have been making too much of it.  While I don't think that's scummy in itself, he also did do a passing shot at Corwin which I don't see the rationale for, even before Corwin explained himself.  Furthermore, reducing what is seen as a joke vote into "100% OMGUS and meta" sounds really questionable, like a storm in a teacup, though I can see why you want him to respond and such.

Would you single out people like Xanth for his endorsement of meta, Strago?

---

Kilga is really fine for now.  There isn't much to go by, really, with his one post.  As for SirAlex, where was his reaction after your fourth vote?  I don't see it.  

--

Also, I think it's weird that Excal and Xanth indirectly criticize Bard on his 'shallow commentary-like style', while Hunter Sopko, in my opinion, is more towards that direction so far as compared to him.  Any reason for this, or is it based on meta?

23

Forum Games / Re: My-Hime Mafia

« on: December 01, 2008, 03:43:07 AM »

#Vote: El-Cideon

*doesn't like androids*

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Forum Games / Re: My-Hime Mafia Signups

« on: November 29, 2008, 07:16:37 AM »

Confirmed.

25

Forum Games / Re: My-Hime Mafia Signups

« on: November 27, 2008, 05:21:47 AM »

Oh, hello guys.  Am signing up as per Carthrat's request, though I have to say that I'm not that experienced (4.5 games and counting).  Yeah, so nice to meet you guys, and /in.