Messages

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Forum Games / Re: FFT Mafia 2: LFT: Richard Hawk vs the Kolliery, Preemptive Discussion/Signups

« on: January 12, 2011, 05:40:29 PM »

I stopped by randomly, to find a really nifty setup in the works.

I'll /in or if the numbers don't even out, stand by as a replacement for either thread. I'd prefer not to be a King.

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Forum Games / Re: A memes to an end(Meme Mafia: Game Over)

« on: March 22, 2010, 10:02:35 AM »

Just wanted to say I enjoyed reading the game on the flavor side. Day 1 was beautiful. Russia's NoLynch analogy in Day 1 almost made me burst out in laughter while I was at the Singapore National Library. I got a few stares. Zerg and Advice Dog also were fun to read. Touhou's attention to detail was fun too; I pegged him as Kilga pretty early because of that. Of course, the Day 3 image spam was funny from a spectator's perspective.

I wasn't overly interested in the game itself (I'm the kind who likes to read a novel without trying to deduce anything along the way) so no real comments there. The two modkills were unfortunate though, sympathy for the mod in those situations.

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Forum Games / Re: Animafia - Game Over, Man, Game Over

« on: September 17, 2009, 05:35:52 PM »

0/13 guesses. Derp.

The roleplaying was pretty fun to read throughout the game. Didn't follow the arguments as much, but Jack/Xanth definitely looked like a committed player which certainly kept him alive in a game full of modkills. I thought Sylvester's/Rou's lisp was great; I can't imagine trying to type up all that, but in retrospect, you would indeed be creative enough to do all that. The Haruhi was extreme so I imagined it'd be a naturally crazy player, but I underestimated a relatively sane player going crazy.

I thought Tom wouldn't play this game because he's waiting for people for TF2. *shrug*

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Forum Games / Re: Team Identification & Mafia - Theme Needed!

« on: September 12, 2009, 09:26:11 PM »

Suggestion for a theme: Starcraft

Terran/Zerg/Protoss

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Forum Games / Re: That soldier's a SPY!

« on: August 30, 2009, 01:48:14 AM »

I've never played TF2 so it probably wouldn't be as much fun if I couldn't help the roleplay along.

I'm available to replace or I can sign up near the end if you need numbers. Let others get their dibs on classes first.

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Forum Games / Re: [Game Over] Worms Armageddon Mafia

« on: August 30, 2009, 01:36:04 AM »

Yeah, just really good town all around this game.  Laggy and I were discussing who was town MVP but really everyone was wrong a couple of times and right other times, and pulled together when it counted.

Yea, I forgot to mention Tom who at least pressed Alice into the forefront on Day 3. His complete case didn't work, but it gave us that 3rd angle to think about and Yoshi and Smodge tunneled out of each other due to it. Sopko had a good defense and Kilga brought forth the winning case. And I probably would have ignored Bard for awhile, but Alex and Sopko got the early pressure on him and it looked good. I was impressed with how the Scum lynches came forward so yea, refreshing to see a total effort in this game.

Nilla Townie is the most powerful role, by the way.

Absolutely. My play level goes down dramatically if I have a power role (or if I'm scum) because I have more to worry about. I'm happiest as Vanilla. And I'll definitely be around for future games. I hear Alex and a few others make great Scum and likewise I need to improve my own Scum play where my few Scum victories aren't due to careless Town or a gimmicky setup in Scum's favor.

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Forum Games / Re: [Game Over] Worms Armageddon Mafia

« on: August 30, 2009, 12:52:49 AM »

Nice turnaround onto Rat on Day 5. If I were alive, I think it would have either been Rat or Kilga, but I was going to lean Rat because how he went for Smodge on Day 4 before quickly jumping back onto the Mage wagon I put forward. Now that I think about it, the Mage mislynch too early is probably what knocked Rat out. There's no way he could avoid NOT getting onto it because that had been his stance all game. He probably hoped the discussion on Sopko vs Smodge would allow him to get those mislynches in and he could outduel Mage in LYLO. That's a few gameplay notes to remember for later.

The Tonfa modkill definitely hurt you Scum. Glen would have almost certainly been a mislynch somewhere down the line but by Day 3, no one paid him any serious attention, mostly due to Kilga's observation. I thought Yoshi redeemed himself pretty well on Day 3 and the combined Yoshi/Smodge switch to Alice really tipped the things into our favor more than anything I did.

To Laggy and Smashy: very entertaining pics and flavor. A good example for future mods (myself included). Good job!

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Forum Games / Re: [Day 4] Worms Armageddon Mafia

« on: August 28, 2009, 05:49:26 PM »

I haven't played Worms in years and didn't play much of it. But hey, Alice's Magic Bullet definitely sounds like a Hitman name when you think about it.

If I kinda recall what I think it was, Holy Hand Grenade was more awesome than Exploding Sheep, which was awesome in itself for destruction.

I'd rather not meta the flavor.

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Forum Games / Re: [Day 4] Worms Armageddon Mafia

« on: August 28, 2009, 05:03:35 PM »

Mage: It's not necessarily scummy that you're admitting to bad play. It's just the bad play itself is scummy. Tonfa's case was also arguably bad play because he took a back seat to scumhunting when he could have pressed Glen or anyone else more. Looks like you didn't have time to clarify your suspicions on Soppy more before you leave so I can't say much else. What you have as of this moment will have to speak for itself.

Smodge: I tend to take things a day at a time because reading over the content of the person who died at Night sometimes changes my opinions on who's Scum. But evidence wise at this time, probably back on Soppy.

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Forum Games / Re: [Day 4] Worms Armageddon Mafia

« on: August 28, 2009, 07:24:03 AM »

You honestly believe that I hounded Tonfa and sent that last message as some elaborate plan to keep me alive throughout the game as the last scum? Also, about the 'daytalk between us?' What about daytalk between Soppy and Tonfa (if Soppy's scum) during D2, letting Soppy know Tonfa's trying to get himself modkilled, having him try to bus Bard from the beginning?

Yea, that's just me speculating unnecessarily again. But the point that is worth highlighting is that even without daytalk, it should be plainly obvious that if Tonfa could get around to it, he would hammer Excal in self-defense. So if the wagons at least remained a tie, he could avoid being mislynched this way. You staying on Tonfa could be a Townie move, but it ended up not hurting Mafia at all. Food for thought if we analyze your thinking from a Scum's viewpoint. The announcement that you'd stay on Tonfa is just icing on the cake regardless of alignment.

And I unvoted because I needed time to gather my thoughts, and at the time, was equally suspicious of both Yoshi and Alice. (Really, the "why no re-vote" should answer itself. Who was I supposed to vote for? Both of them?)

You could stay on Kilga for consistency. I don't see why you have to unvote first to consider your thoughts when the Kilga wagon was nowhere near lynch. In the end, this is a bit of a null point.

Alice thing - I honestly believe you're reading too much into that. I'm town, I'm a nub, and unless I get lynched, you're not gonna know for certain if that's true or not. So to everyone but scum and me (and the cop if there is one and they've checked me) it's a big case of WIFOM. I could be nubTown, or Alice could have been trying to boost my image.

It's still worth mentioning if I think it's a point that will boost my case. If I want to argue that a now confirmed Scum indirectly hinted about one of his scumbuddies, I will bring it up and let the readers decide. It "can" fit if you look at the context of this game.

Anyways, all of those above replies are on the nitpicky things. The real case on you is a lack of contribution/scumhunting and badly reasoned cases against Kilga. All of that is anti-Town in the first place; I'm just trying to determine if it has crossed the line to Scum play.

---

Soppy is looking scummier to me, though, by way of pointing out every single known scum in one post. This is also the post where he first accuses Bard. And he mentions a certain level of suspicion on everyone who became a train Days 2 and 3.

When you consider he also mentions Townies like Yoshi, your point doesn't mean much. And it's reasonable to think that people worth mentioning could eventually have a train on them.

He also seriously accused Yoshi of me-tooism, and provided Yoshi's jokevote as example.

I noticed that too, it's an ok point against him.

Personally, all of this screams of scummitude. What would be the best way to ensure that, if all else fails, at least one scum will live? To have one scum act completely differently from the others. Which Soppy has been doing. He's been attacking all the scum, which seems a little bit too convenient. (In fact, D2, he's actually harder on Alice than he is D3. D3 being when scum are in danger of being reduced to one left. He also plays a more defensive game in general on D3, and has since been more on the offensive again.) And the scum? They've all been playing rather similar games to each other so far, have they not?

That could be because he's effectively scumhunting as well. Except you could argue he hasn't. He didn't go for Tonfa if I recall correctly. You're not making enough of a distinction on how his attacks on the flipped Scum are "too convenient" at this point in time. Defensive or offensive doesn't seem to matter as much, both Town or Scum can play either way legitly depending on the situation. Name more specific points where it reflects badly on Sopko if you want to use that against him.

---

If you want me to say how Mage is flailing, it looks like because he's over-exaggerating certain points on others or not getting his facts straight. Soppy has not been attacking the other scum as conveniently as he could have. After all, that's why there's a wagon on him now. And the points he's bringing up against Soppy are not really ones that make Soppy more or less scummy imo, it's more IIoA.

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Forum Games / Re: [Day 4] Worms Armageddon Mafia

« on: August 28, 2009, 03:25:48 AM »

Rat: Saying stuff is one thing, but votes is where you really put the money where your mouth is. When one does and their behavior through the game supports it, then they start looking Townie, not the other way around. Yours wasn't there, Kilga's wasn't there, etc. Just a point of consideration.

---

Checking up on Soppy and Bard: He votes Bard on #169. The Tonfa modkill is announced #193. And yes, I see you do address Bard in #208 again. But if you want to argue the other side, once the modkill was announced, Scum Soppy might have looked suspicious if you tried to get off the Bard bandwagon so you were forced to ride the bus through especially since Bard had picked up his 3rd vote from me. But you didn't have to bother talking about Bard again so yes, I will give you this point and it does reinforce your defense.

One interesting thing though is that Alice does take the time to put a case forward on Soppy twice in Day 3. If Alice and Soppy are indeed a scumpair, they're sure trying to bus each other awkwardly with Alice now highlighting problems with Sopko WHILE both voted for Yoshi who ended up avoiding being the mislynch anyways. That whole sequence is extremely high risk and in retrospect, doesn't look like the best way they as a scumpair could have handled it. Which leads to my next section below:

---

Mage reread: Votes me on gut. Goes after Delta, admittedly just to "metagame one of the few people I know." Goes for Tonfa after Tonfa's vote on him. There's a discussion about Tonfa's "No Lynching D1 is terrible" point that he concedes a little on, but vote remains. In #150, says he's almost willing to switch to Glen over Tonfa, but will wait to see what comes up. In #156, leaves vote on Tonfa after saying if it's between Excal and Tonfa, Tonfa's the one. One important thing to note, this declaration is right at the very end and leaves Tonfa tied with Excal at 5-5 and Tonfa jumps off the Glen wagon to hammer 12 seconds later. With daytalk going on, it's not completely out of the stretch to see a Scum Mage coordinate with a Scum Tonfa to let Mage get that word in before Tonfa hammers. And Tonfa hammers which nobody can really pin anything on him down for since it's arguably self defense while Mage avoids the dilemna of having to do so.

Mage follows Tonfa into Day 2. Then jumps off and goes to Kilga. In #207, Mage I believe is the first one to openly comment about the Tonfa modkill and says "all other cases I'm not quite seeing." For saying you're "scumhunting" in that paragraph, I'm hardly impressed you have no cases, especially when you were commenting about Tonfa and your vote had ceased being on him for awhile. Then in #218 unvotes Kilga, Extensions and then we see him at the end of Day 2 say he would have hammered Bard. He's the only one getting a last word in after Yoshi hammered.

Starts Day 3 going right for Kilga. Neglects to mention the fact that Kilga went for Bard over Alex after Bard's fakeclaim. Unvotes Kilga AGAIN and does not leave a vote anywhere despite his list going Kilga, Yoshi/Alice, Glen. Why the unvote? Then revotes Kilga again in #327. And is noncommittal to everyone in #354 including this statement:

Alice: Interesting approach. Definitely seeing the case, but I'm not seeing enough of one to lynch.

And I guess to top off one thing that's not in his control, Alice also explicitly mentions he sees Mage as nubTown at least 3 times. In #297, #308, and #314. Then Mage drops the Kilga case in #317. If it's just 4 Scum, I could see Alice trying to reinforce the idea that Scum Mage is nubTown. He's not the only one to believe this since Tom, I and whoever else I might have missed have all said the same thing.

Well, no more. I rescind my clear of Mage and on my reread, I think his play is bad AND scummy. Tonfa voting Mage could reasonably be to put it on someone safe and it was a miscalculation. And Mage missed out on bringing any case forward in Day 2 after Tonfa's modkill was announced which is as bad as trying to push a potential mislynch anyways. Sopko still has bleh points, but his defense is decent for all the recent points he's bringing forward. The vote on Bard in Day 2 is a positive, but Mage upon reread has no worthy contributions to Town. Going to go for this one right here, right now.

TL,DR: Fuck me for clearing Mage if he is Scum.

##Unvote Hunter Sopko
##Vote Magetastic

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Forum Games / Re: [Day 4] Worms Armageddon Mafia

« on: August 27, 2009, 08:37:23 PM »

Sopko's case at the beginning of Day 3 on Alice does look reasonably strong. It's just the whole unvote of it later just because Alice had posted 3 times with content really puts doubt on whether he intended to follow through on his suspicions of Alice. No addressing of Alice's posts either. It's a presumably safe place for Scum Sopko to park his vote and another reason he might have done this rather than vote Yoshi was that indeed the Yoshi train was building rather fast. The eventual Yoshi vote at the end of #371 does push Yoshi over Alice 4-3 which is notable enough as well. You're saying both of them are more or less equal for scumminess, so given that, it's to your disadvantage that you chose incorrectly. And I already mentioned that while there's no proof that you could be Scum intending to bus Bard, there's also no evidence to prove that you couldn't have/didn't bus him either.

Kilga is looking ok. The questioning he gave to Yoshi all the way from the beginning of Day 2 is consistent and not flowery points or anything. And the point about seeing who would vote Alice just because she unvoted from L-1 is null as like Kilga said, people vote Alice for the right reasons.

Rat's posts from Day 3, despite talking mostly about Mage, does touch on other people though. I see he talks about Alice in #311 "dancing around the Yoshi train" although I'm not certain if it's for the L-1 unvote or just in general. Ah, but I see #337 where Rat says that Alice's vote on Yoshi is weird for being tacked onto a larger post and agreeing with previous posters. Then Rat sees the linked case in #373 as warnings all over although it's hard to tell what kind of warnings he means. It's a mixed bag as a whole, but if anything, I haven't found any of his posts throughout the game disagreeable as a whole.

So yea, Sopko definitely looks the most suspicious to me with the inconsistent stance on Alice being the strongest point. I'll have to do the Mage rereads later when I have more time and don't have to rush off to my lunch break. Although his #354 pretty much is going non-committive on anyone.

##Vote Hunter Sopko

Cut by Sopko: Yes, I do see some points you made about Bard in Day 1, so I'll give you that. But see above. And Smodge had also been pressing Yoshi for part of the Day. Why would Scum Smodge willingly abandon a Yoshi mislynch and bring the Alice wagon squarely into contention? As for you harrassing Bard in Day 2, I'd need to doublecheck later when you did that and if you did any of that after Tonfa's modkill was announced.

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Forum Games / Re: [Day 4] Worms Armageddon Mafia

« on: August 27, 2009, 07:16:15 PM »

Before I do a formal reread with Yoshi's NK in mind, here's what I see just from wagon impressions:

With Alice's roleclaim actually being a fake, we cannot strongly clear Smodge just on the grounds of him offering himself up as the Bomb collateral damage. However, his vote on Alice more or less bringing the Alice and Yoshi wagons even at 3 a piece is looking pretty good. Tom is also looking a lot better having started a Yoshi wagon at the beginning, but switching it up to the Alice wagon, in essence diverting a possible mislynch into a scum lynch. Could be scum strategy to the extreme since a Yoshi mislynch might have put Tom squarely back to the forefront of suspicions, but as Scum, he would be pushing for mislynches anyways so the convoluted task of bussing another Scum to give him credit doesn't make as much sense, especially when we haven't seen many Town power roles showing up yet. Therefore, he's looking alright as well. That's pretty much all I see after all that end of Day chaos.

Sopko stands out the most for his views on Alice and Yoshi, highlighted in Tom's case and a different point I also made in Day 3.

Mage is starting to stand out for almost zero contribution in Day 3. The Kilga case just sat there and there wasn't as much opinion-wise on the major aspects of Day 3. This is going to collide with my relative clear of him earlier so I'm going to force myself to reevaluate him from scratch.

Rat is actually the hardest to read at the moment. Waited around on a Mage case for the longest time and had intents to vote Smodge before the Alice fakeclaim. Probably want to see what he contributes the most, whether it is a reaffirmation of the Mage case or someone else.

Kilga is sitting neutral, mainly in that he didn't switch from Yoshi to Alice before Alice's fakeclaim. This after he followed Tom rather quickly onto the Yoshi train and stayed there. Need to reread a bit more about his Yoshi views.

Glen probably deserves a bit of re-evaluation as well, but at least he had more content than Mage. His voting history in Day 3 from what I remember still seems to follow the pattern of sporadic Town more than Scum with a strategy.

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Forum Games / Re: [Day 3] Worms Armageddon Mafia

« on: August 27, 2009, 02:13:24 AM »

Laggy: If you weren't angry at us before, I'm sure you're angry at us now. Good luck with those votecounts.

Of course, it's your fault if Alice is indeed a Bomb. And I'm not touching my vote so don't worry about weirdness there.

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Forum Games / Re: [Day 3] Worms Armageddon Mafia

« on: August 27, 2009, 01:02:00 AM »

New developments abound. Had to reread all of this again and my opinions are changing.

Regarding Alice's #297: Saying Soppy and I cover most of Yoshi is meh. I don't usually have a problem with people reiterating other points because at least we see specific reasons coming out of your mouth that you can be held accountable for rather than us having to guess which of Soppy's or my points you agree with. In any case, the original points Alice takes the time to provide is only of Yoshi believing the fakeclaim (which 2 other people happened to support as well) and "hammering for Town cred." The first point doesn't differentiate Yoshi from Tom or Smodge. And I thought the hammering for Town cred is a null point; it was at the end of my case on Yoshi as well, but hardly the largest thing I disliked about Yoshi. So it does seem like low-effort reasoning to vote Yoshi. And I see you repeat those 2 points in #331 when you revote Yoshi, not really mentioning Yoshi's Day 1 actions which is what I focussed on to differentiate Yoshi from Smodge or Tom.

---

Actually, since I seemed to miss this when reviewing Tom's new cases, Soppy actually takes the time to present a case on Yoshi, but instead of voting Yoshi, votes Alice saying Alice needs to participate more. I can probably understand you wanting to highlight Alice, but your later unvote of Alice indicates it was more a lurker prod as you proclaim, "Alice is finally participating" without mentioning whether Alice's content is actually any good or not! You just said there was content, but did you really agree or disagree or what? I can now see why Tom decided to declare you two a scumpair.

Also Sopko: "Bard hadn't even been suspected until Alex and I jumped on him?" You trying to claim equal credit with Alex for finding Bard? Unfortunately for you, that's subjective because Alex had presented it first. You just happened to be the next person to post and also voted Bard. I don't believe you can declare that so strongly. And it doesn't really prove your point anyway, that you couldn't have bussed Bard just because you were second and early.

---

None of these new points are really obvscum damning against Alice, but I'm inclined to switch mainly cuz I've started to feel better about Yoshi off to the side (his reclarification of his case on Smodge helped quite a bit). I've had the time to vet Yoshi, see a variety of people comment on him and his case and I'm feeling better about him now. Alice is still more of an unknown along with the points of contention from before: end of Day 1 offenses, lack of end of Day 2 presence, and a case on Yoshi that I'm starting to disagree with. Smodge is still a little meh, but his also voting Alice alongside Yoshi kind of tips the balance in his favor. Because I'm not seeing both of them as scumbuddies so one if not both of them honestly see Alice as Scum. If it's between Yoshi or Alice at this point, I'll go with the vote on Alice.

##Unvote Yoshi
##Vote Alice

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Forum Games / Re: [Day 3] Worms Armageddon Mafia

« on: August 26, 2009, 07:53:19 PM »

To address Tom's new case: Interesting angle, but I'm not sure how quickly I'd want to pursue that. It's pretty much a case of a pair of lurkers possibly being Scum. The main problem is that a pair of lurkers usually don't talk about much of anything so it may not be as rare for these 2 to not have mentioned each other that much. If both were more active and still ignored each other, that point would be stronger. Sopko being on Bard early could indeed be bussing, but we need some evidence of behavior for that which you don't really state and is exactly like how I had to withdraw that same point against Kilga. Possible, but currently without merit.

The accusations they place against each other of lurking along with the unvoting after responses is a good point although it's only Sopko voting Alice on that. Thing is that while Alice asked where Soppy was, Yoshi also asked where Soppy went at #323 so it's not exclusively between Soppy and Alice. And I already noted Soppy getting on you rather than Alice after you unvoted and also thought that was weird.

Need some replies from the accused first.

Cut by Soppy: There's one. Response looking alright and I see what you mean by saying Yoshi was flailing earlier before the Smodge case was presented again. I don't think Soppy's done enough wrong to be a major candidate for today.

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Forum Games / Re: [Day 3] Worms Armageddon Mafia

« on: August 26, 2009, 07:21:12 PM »

Smodge, I'm concerned about you quoting huge parts of Tonfa's statements in here. It looks weird compared to the rest of the cases in that post. You're not highlighting specific points of Tonfa's which makes the following explanations of clearing him too general as well as being quite short. And like I said, you don't explicitly say anything about Tonfa's scumminess. The points just sit there while you say "moderate scum read here" on Yoshi and others. Of course later, you state that you can't see the Tonfa case at all repeatedly, but this post is supposed to be the foundation for that and I'm seeing a little less of why you thought so. It's more of a waffle feeling rather than a I disagree with the case.

And Smodge, I was expecting that if you thought Yoshi was Scum, you state what you think, but check out others as possible Scum. Reasonably, there could be 4 Scum this game. And it's unclear whether you thought Glen was Scum at the time of your vote. So if he wasn't in your mind, it looks like you're being lazy with just mere pressure on Glen and not looking for more Scum.

Also your defense of the case against Tom is that he did the same thing? That's it? Doesn't excuse either of you. Is there anything else you want to add to that? And with Tom making a case on Alice/Soppy, what do you think of him now after you make points on him and Alice?

---

Mage: Let's say you can't vote for Kilga today (because it really doesn't look like we'd see a Kilga lynch today). Who would you actually vote for instead?

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Forum Games / Re: [Day 3] Worms Armageddon Mafia

« on: August 26, 2009, 06:09:59 PM »

Kilga: Me saying "If Kilga decided to bus Bard" was speculating. Since I didn't provide any supporting evidence of such behavior, I overreached on that point and probably should not have mentioned it. So I'll just consider the points that you defended Tonfa which is suspicious but not obvscum, as well as the switch from Tom to Yoshi which has no definitive meaning atm. And I didn't word the part about Yoshi maybe being a mislynch correctly, but with your statement and not unvoting, you answered my question.

Sopko: Not getting why you're more alarmed at Tom's proclamation of Alice backpedaling on Alice's L-1 vote than Alice actually doing it. Alice totally missing the fact that his vote would bring it to L-1 counts for something, at least carelessness on Alice's part and someone can legitly mention it. I would also agree with Tom that Yoshi isn't flailing. Yoshi presented his case on Smodge in a chronological order and it was the first time I could actually follow a case of his reasonably well. And some of the attributable scummy parts about Smodge are there when I looked it over.

Carthrat: I get what you mean about Mage. The part of my post you quoted is pretty much the only thing stopping me from voting him along with Tonfa falling back to a Mage vote on Day 1 in between Glen votes. Like Glen, it's a clear based more on external factors than their actual play. We'll probably be at a difference on this for awhile, but it looks like that issue is going to be postponed for today. On the other hand, I do want to see Mage share his thoughts on some of the more recent things going on here. Glen too actually... argh.

Also, not sure I like Smodge's clarification that he voted Glen because he wanted an explanation more than to push a lynch. Doesn't quite match with your actual vote reason.

Although i have suspected Yoshi for a while he is already a -1 to hammer without even typing a single post in his defence,this is way too hasty.

Glens switch looks rediculously scummy to me saying that i'm suspicious but switching to Yoshi with no reason stated and putting him at -2.

##Vote: Glen

As much as i prefer someone not to be voting for me.
Explain.

Also, even if Yoshi was your primary lynch choice and he was at L-1, bring up a case and put a vote on a second possible scum WHILE asking Glen your question. Otherwise, you're just idle parking and not doing as much scumhunting.

Kilga: At least you spelled "Fuck" right.

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Forum Games / Re: [Day 3] Worms Armageddon Mafia

« on: August 26, 2009, 03:53:54 AM »

Kilga: You seem to be ignoring the big picture. Tom is rightfully suspicious for voting Alex. But he has pursued both of the other people who did the same: Yoshi and Smodge. So it's a bit weird if I want to think about him being scumbuddies with them (but not impossible). Then I saw you vote Tom and since then vote Yoshi after Tom did the same, letting Tom off the hook a bit. Have you considered the Yoshi train could be a mislynch? If it's a coincidence, so be it, but I saw it and decided it deserved some attention.

---

Yoshi: I see where Smodge took some liberties with the following in his #88: "he (Yoshi) discards Tonfa's comment as bad phrasing" because it doesn't look like Yoshi disregarded Tonfa's statements to me. And I see Smodge quoting large parts of Tonfa and mostly saying he agreed with them. Including the part about the LAL when it was demonstrated Tonfa at one point thought Glen was scummy and had since gone back to Glen. The LAL mentality occurred between those two events, how can Smodge say it was ok for him to have that mentality in that time period? And I don't see an actual opinion on Tonfa despite all those quote boxes and Smodge giving opinions on everyone else. Smodge does seem to be getting on Yoshi more for a perceived flipflopping rather than for the actual case against Tonfa. And Smodge's #138 looks bad on several levels.

Your concerns about Smodge's first Day 2 post are valid although his points against you are fair as well. To his credit, it's not like it's out of the blue because he did press you on Day 1 as well. Most of the rest of your points didn't seem as important to me, the random 1-2 line posts don't mean anything. I don't agree that every single thing you mentioned about Smodge was scummy bad, but you re-highlighted a few things that do stand out, mainly Smodge's lack of a real opinion of Tonfa when he voted you. And objectively, he's a bit worse than you for being on the Excal wagon as well as the Alex wagon.

---

Glen: Tom's case on Smodge? You talking about the one from Day 2? Care to explain more about Smodge instead of just passively parking your vote on Yoshi, especially when you're saying one or the other is Scum, but not both? Play it right, not play it safe.

---

And since I didn't seem to mention it much, Alice has gotta explain that Glen vote when he's also willing to clear Mage for nubTown. How exactly are you deciding one is scummy and the other isn't?

---

Waiting for Smodge's replies to Yoshi's case and my questions before I decide on any vote changes.

20

Forum Games / Re: [Day 3] Worms Armageddon Mafia

« on: August 25, 2009, 07:55:39 PM »

When I read Mage's point about Kilga defending against the Tonfa lynch again, it's actually a decent point, and should not be so easily discounted imo. And I just had a few more thoughts regarding Tom. The way Tom is going after Smodge yesterday or Yoshi today, I'm now not willing to believe Scum Tom would be a scumpair with either. Suddenly, Kilga shoots up as the most likely if Tom were Scum.

If Kilga decided to bus Bard, Tom's switching it back down just about negated that bus. I could see Scum communicating about that and giving one of them Townie cred while still maintaining a halfway hope that Bard would escape the rope Day 2. And noting Kilga starts off on Tom Day 3 and after Tom brings up a case on Yoshi, Kilga decides to switch it up and also goes on Yoshi. Those interactions suddenly stuck out to me. Scum are definitely trying to make up ground now and any wagons they're pushing today are definitely mislynch attempts so I wonder about Yoshi.

Need to read back more, but just wanted to get these other thoughts out before I went to lunch. But for Mage wanting to suspect Kilga and yet not put a vote on it, man that's still weak as hell...

21

Forum Games / Re: [Day 3] Worms Armageddon Mafia

« on: August 25, 2009, 07:16:25 PM »

Mmph. Gone back and checked over the Yoshi stuff. Surprised how people aren't seeing Smodge as the worst offender during yesterday's debacle, or perhaps more that Kiro in particular is attributing... logic... to his arguments.

Huh? In my line of questioning to Yoshi, I'm trying to understand why Yoshi was putting the Smodge case forward. Yoshi is claiming Smodge's style looks like railroading or something, and is not talking about his actual content. Trying to get a straight answer from Yoshi on what content specifically, like clarifying what were Smodge's "utterly pointless sections" and what else about Smodge's opinions that looked like they were wishy-washy.

---

Moving on though, I don't know how much I should read into this, but time to consider if Scum tried to do damage control when Tonfa's impending modkill was announced. This is working under a major assumption though that Tonfa did not announce early to his buddies he was going to let himself be modkilled rather than replaced. @Mod: Are scum allowed to communicate with each other at any time this game or at Night only?

So the modkill is announced at #193 and only Alex and Soppy have voted Bard; no votes on Alex yet. The other wagons at 2 are Kilga and Yoshi. Soppy and Smodge are at 1. What I am looking for is how/whether Scum tried to prop up other wagons, knowing that Tonfa is going to die and at least Bardiche was in some danger. Notable actions to follow:

#194: Bard votes Alex for his first vote
#203: Tom votes Mage for Mage's first vote
#204: Kiro hits up Bardiche for #3
#207: Mage notes Tonfa will die and doesn't give a solid stance on other cases.
#219: Tom switches from Mage to Smodge for Smodge's second vote.
#223: Glen votes Alex for Alex's second vote.
#231: Rat will consider Glen after Tonfa's MK, notes Smodge going up, votes Alice.
#232: Alice says Glen>Bard>Mage>etc, votes Glen for first vote.

#235: Bard roleclaims Cop.
#236: Yoshi votes Alex, "sees no reason Bard would put his head on the line as a Mafia gambit so early on with next to no clear ulterior motive." Misses the idea that Bard could have been under pressure as the leading wagon. Ties it up 3-3.
#238: Kilga votes Bard, shifts Bard up 4-3.
#240: Tom votes Alex, wagons tied at 4-4.
#242: Rat votes Bard, shifts Bard up 5-4.
#255: Smodge decides to go with the idea that "Lynching Alex makes more logical sense as in worst case scenario we don't lose the town cop AND we gain more information". After a bit of switching, votes Alex (#263), ties 5-5.
#265: Kiro stays on Bardiche.
#266: Glen switches to Bard, Bard up 6-4.
#267: Yoshi hammers.

---

I see Mage is really passive after Bard takes the lead at #3. Thing is he looks almost too passive if he were Scum knowing two of his buddies could potentially die on Day 2. I just don't see Scum Mage standing by idly because he should know that doesn't reflect well on him either. It really looks like he played as if he couldn't decide on who would be the next best target and while that could happen if he were either alignment, I think he would have been a little more urgent if he were Scum. Once again, leaning nub Town for me.

Tom decides on Smodge which only inches Smodge up a bit without seriously challenging the Bardiche wagon. He could have gone for Yoshi or Kilga and brought him up to 3. Not entirely seeing why a Scum Tom would choose Smodge also given the above mentioned pressure on Bard. Best I can see Scum Tom doing is trying to set up a different mislynch target, but I dunno. The angle at which he analyzes the Excal wagon to go for Smodge looks decent.

Thing about Glen in his #223, if he's Scum, why go for Alex which only brings him to a tie with Smodge? He could go for Smodge and even mentions near the bottom that the Smodge case puts him up there on his scummy list. All of that takes a 180 when Glen votes Bard near the end in a reversal of the case on Alex. To me, there is no semblance of Scum strategy involved in his actions; heck he backtracks on his main point with Alex's comments about Town's level of play in Day 1 and it's not even looking like a scummy backtrack, more like a nub one. And frankly, he shifted the tie to Bard. Coupled with Kilga's points about Tonfa and Bard attacking Glen in Day 1, I'm really not seeing why Glen would be Scum.

Not getting as much of a read on Rat and Alice, both pushing brand new cases.

After the copclaim, Kilga, Rat, and Glen are movers towards Bard while Yoshi, Tom and Smodge are movers towards Alex. The funny thing is that based on Tom's case on Smodge, I don't see both of them being a scumpair. Why would Scum Tom, who sees Tonfa dying, Bardiche at 3 votes, go after yet another Scumbuddy? THAT would be suicidal.

And regarding Smodge, the thing I dislike most about his decision to vote Alex is that it tries to play the safest route. He was looking at probabilities rather than the context at which the claim makes sense (not really addressing if Bardiche could be trusted in the first place). You could argue that it's not willing to make the hard choices which goes against my personal creed of scumhunting. Try to get it right the first time and stand by it. And willing to take a mislynch for the sake of ore information is scummy thinking.

All of this actually puts Smodge above Tom in my rankings. I'm not sure where Yoshi fits into this whole thing, but the fact Tom is voting Yoshi and Smodge says he would have voted Yoshi is perplexing me a bit. I can agree with the idea that there's potentially bussing going on or that Yoshi is a possible mislynch. I may need to reconsider Kilga and Rat some more as I could see either of them just throwing Bard under the bus as a lost cause. Definitely Kilga more if Yoshi ends up flipping Town.

Want to hear more from Smodge and Yoshi about stuff. Yoshi should take a little time to respond to some of the points made against him. Frankly, "Mage has had enough time to stop being the boneheaded Townie," doesn't mean a thing. You think a person can change that easily midgame? Can be nub from beginning to end, but that doesn't make it the right lynch. As for Smodge, not seeing the Glen case, more elaboration on why he's actually Scum despite doing scummy stuff. Because his unscummy stuff like voting Bard at deadline also needs to be considered. I may decide Smodge is more likely to be Scum than Yoshi and switch my votes depending on the replies.

22

Forum Games / Re: [Day 3] Worms Armageddon Mafia

« on: August 25, 2009, 07:45:42 AM »

Well, Mage's "I would have hammered" after it had already been dropped is kind of a suspicious statement to throw forward. Also, not liking your Day 3 case on Kilga for the start. Your main reason is that Kilga didn't support the Tonfa lynch, but then again, neither did Alex who is now confirmed Town. Why are you not willing to give Kilga some credit for at least choosing Bard over Alex on Day 2? Objectively, Alice would appear worse, choosing the Excal train over Tonfa at the deadline as well while not having the positive attribute of shifting the lynch from Alex to Bard.

But if I want to look a little bit at past statements, here's what I see:

Not jumping on any conclusion about Mage until he returns.

That's the very first thing Tonfa says in his first serious post #50, meaning he's definitely considering Mage for something. Votes Glen for scummiest. Then 3 hours later in #56, votes Mage for the liability factor. Reading back, I see Mage doesn't let Tonfa get away with it, votes him, and sticks to him to the end of Day 1.

I was thinking that perhaps there was a chance that Tonfa was willing to risk putting his vote on a scumbuddy who wouldn't argue back against him, but I can't definitively confirm that. However, that single action painted a huge target on Tonfa's back including forcing Bard to backtrack onto Glen again to reduce the pressure on Tonfa. I'm starting to see Mage to be less likely to be Scum as a result of this, even if there are a bunch of things I haven't liked from him like a lack of a case for the latter Day 2. Just noticed you also start Day 2 with a Tonfa vote though.

---

Moving on to Yoshi: here's some interesting notes. Starting at #106 votecount, Tonfa's at 5, Glen's at 4. After Kilga starts a SirAlex train, Yoshi follows, effectively dropping Tonfa to a tie with Glen. You give both Glen and Tonfa a halfway clear as follows:

Glen: For starters, take some time to re-read the whole topic. It looks like you've just changed your vote because of one or two specific posts. If I'm wrong on this, sure, ignore me, but if not, I'd re-read a good section of the topic just to get an overall idea as opposed to a kneejerk reaction. Otherwise, your recent posts have had quite a good Town read to them, so.. less suspicious than you were, at least. That's still not saying too much.

Tonfa's post [link] shortly after my last main one definitely reads well, though. Doesn't clear the suspicion much, but at least now I can see the logic behind the previous posts.

They're both less suspicious now eh? Kinda gives you a little wiggle room to go back to them while you chase after Alex who would only have had a second vote right there. I'm also sensing slight hypocrisy when you say all of the above and your list in #109 is "Alex > Mage > Glen/Tonfa" then your #133:

I'm still around, and probably will be for the deadline. Leaving my vote with Alex as he's far and away the most suspicious to me so far, although would be happy to switch if we're cruising for a tiebreak. I'm reluctant to lynch Mage today, as he strikes me as neutral, as opposed to Tonfa/Glen who are looking slightly Mafia.

I mentioned how I didn't like your Day 2 case on Smodge and to reiterate, it seems you're trying to read into Smodge's style rather than his actual content? Doesn't make sense. You never bothered to answer specifically what he said that struck you as wrong.

No, just most of them. Your first three posts all switched votes, and then Day2 started with you voting for someone who wasn't the scummiest to you at the end of Day1.
The problem there is what you stopped commenting on. In the Wall of Text, you mention a few different arguments, focusing on 2-3. In all of your arguments, though, there are some utterly pointless sections - rather than quoting whole posts, just link to them instead, maybe? I'd like to see opinions on the major cases at the time rather than just one case.
Also, if the only Mafia-like thing of Rat you saw was the start of Day1, why was he the scummiest to you at the end of Day1?

Not sure there's something that wrong with a lot of early Day 1 vote switching usually due to RVS. The part about not pursuing Rat is an ok point, but the rest of that is "huh." What exactly were you trying to get him on with that middle paragraph? And to top it off, initially you were willing to believe Bard's roleclaim and only switched after Glen had pretty much shifted the Alex wagon out of contention, from 5-5 to 6-4 Bard with 15 minutes left. All good with the Yoshi lynch.

##Vote Yoshi

Not sure whether to place Alice or Tom second, but probably Alice who decided to go off on a Glen tangent and was not present for the end of Day 2 shenanigans. As Sopko is saying, Scum lurker strategy. Everyone else is a lower priority for today unless something new arises.

23

Forum Games / Re: [Day 2] Worms Armageddon Mafia

« on: August 24, 2009, 05:05:18 PM »

Bard's timing of thinking about Alex is bad with the resulting wagon shifting at the end of Day 1. He thinks Glen is nub, but makes no mention of Tonfa or Excal and votes Alex instead. Tunnely to an anti-Town level as it tries to keep something he could personally resolve in Day 2 relevant. If he was indeed the cop, I imagine he'd just vote for one of the regular trains while still investigating SirAlex at Night.

In either case, he needs to build up something decent to present to the rest of us in Day 2 after he got a supposed Guilty result. Instead, the point he presents today have no real weight on them. And his copclaim itself is lazy as heck. There's no analysis on why he himself should believe his guilty verdict (he could be Insane without knowing) and no mentioning of any of Alex's Day 2 content even by the end of the Day.

Not believing the claim. Behavior too outlandish and too quick to believe his supposed result without bringing forth additional evidence to convince the rest of us. Vote staying on Bardiche.

24

Forum Games / Re: [Day 2] Worms Armageddon Mafia

« on: August 24, 2009, 04:46:37 PM »

Gah, I'm here. Considering the roleclaim. Rereading shit.

25

Forum Games / Re: [Day 2] Worms Armageddon Mafia

« on: August 24, 2009, 08:22:24 AM »

Not much to add before I go to sleep. Bard hasn't come back to reply yet. Alice has to post again. Noticeably, Mage decided to unvote Kilga and vote for an Extension. For "all other cases I'm not quite seeing" in your #207, you don't bother to think a little harder about it and put a vote on someone an hour later despite taking the time to reread a little bit of Kilga. Waffles.

Could consider the Smodge case although I find it interesting how relatively weak Yoshi's reasoning is and how much stronger Tom's is.

I should be around for deadline this time. Lightning can't strike the Ontario router twice can it?