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1

RPGDL Discussion / Re: Division Ranking Algorithm: The Final Frontier

« on: March 16, 2025, 07:03:38 PM »

I'm glad people enjoyed reading this!

To NEB

I don't think there is any categorical place that the results were "wrong" and I definitely don't trust my intuition (too many anchor points of bias still plus I got to review a whole horde of ways my intuition was wrong in many ways; granted, there were already enough inconsistencies my rankings that I wasn't super surprised especially when I ranked a game with a lot of duellers and I wasn't even consistent within a game). I checked basically every match result except for the last couple of games and the boss rush to be sure that everything was working as I would expect (although there are some matches where I just didn't bother to make corrections; generally, when it really just effected 1 match and there was too much to do). I did make sure that bosses were working the way I wanted them to and did check a good chunk of their matches to be sure. Since we scale bosses differently, I could definitely imagine that if Ghaleon and Dehaui were under your views, that Ghaleon would do better. I think that would make Vinsfield worse as well under your views. I agree that thinking about Vinsfield as a Middle champion is weird, but at the same time, my rankings aren't quite the same as DL ranking since mine factor in facing literally everyone and the DL rankings aren't necessarily linear in the same way (although if I look at my rankings around division borderlines, they do seem generally reasonable). It's possible that someone like Vinsfield would sweep Light and low Middle basically and grab some unexpected wins against against people who rank a lot higher than him, and is a little worse against high Middle duellers than the number suggests (or not! I'd really have to run some type of analysis to be sure). Granted, we've also seen some DL champions that just got a very favorable run, so you never know. To some degree, it's basically a question of whether he runs into a healer or not. Having looked over the match results, I do conceptually understand why Vinsfield placed so high; he's someone where it's easy to focus on the screaming weakness without always seeing some the strengths might overcome that.

Ghaleon and Royce actually aren't identical in wins/losses, they just happened to get the same numerical rank. Royce a good chunk of better damage for me, which is what makes up the difference of the HP.

Yes, we do have different scaling for Brig as I do factor in monsters to some degree (my rule for inclusion of generics is when they make up more than half your party).

I do definitely agree that it should matter what else the boss is using. I just wanted to stick to some "clean" formulation (for all that if you don't know exact percentages and how/why bosses use moves, it's not necessarily very clean and I just had to hope that whatever use rates I witnessed were accurate enough. Then there are question marks like what is Ghaleon's AI doing?). I find the HP scaling to be a separate issue personally. HP scaling is to balance out facing only 1 enemy, whereas the the AI control is to try and limit them to something resembling the in game patterns/performance. So the two parts together hopefully model their total in game performance a bit better for all that Tal's boss view would be better than HP scaling (but also a total non-starter for this system). At least, I did have some way that boss MT moves now have some importance if obviously not as important as under Tal's views.

To Djinn's note on limits, yes, they often would be a bit headachey (not always). So MP generally works one way. You have all of it to start, you use some portion of it, maybe eventually you use so much and you don't really have any left. I craft general strategies to try and make a dueller use less if they lose and are basically out of MP, but only in very rare cases does it go up (Umimaru, Vivi, Leonard for included duellers who have actual move choices that raise it; Amarant too, but that's more a secondary effect) and in would general, I only needed to have it go up when they were basically all out or unable to use a move because of it. Limits add on a whole new layer of strategy. An HP-based limit is doable, but if it's building up a bar (which extend to things like Grandia SP), then there can be an additional layer of strategy about building the limit itself. Even worse if it means that there's an additional layer of strategy on both sides of the match (so limits where doing and taking damage might build the bar). Also, there are so many places where resources are checked that adding more code to all those places wouldn't be fun. Definitely some limit games are doable with a minimal pain level. FF8 would actually be straightforward, FF7 and VP (limit bar is basically an automatic function) I can fudge, although it's possible I would need to write new strategies for HP limit avoiding (maybe...it's possible that the work I did when checking Slash's results and making sure duellers didn't mindlessly attack him into his more dangerous HP phase when they could chip and avoid would extend perfectly). I just wanted to deal with simpler stuff first (or what I thought would be simpler as limits clearly would have been simpler than charge times) and then I just needed to move on before I fell into this hole forever. Also, whenever you start writing new strategies, it can sometimes push-out/override other strategies, so it can mean a lot of tailoring even it seems like it will initially be straightforward.

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RPGDL Discussion / Re: Division Ranking Algorithm: The Final Frontier

« on: February 26, 2025, 05:27:37 PM »

Roadmap (Include a # in front and search for)
Building Process
Lessons Learned
Included Games
Equip Changes
Boss Changes
Rankings!
Missing Games
Accuracy and How Moves Relate to Each Other
Functions
Data Storage
Considerations
Analysis

#Analysis
There is a lot of different types analysis I thought about (individual character analysis comparing what moves they used in wins versus losses, ranking them in all stats and movetypes, seeing differences between equips and non-equips, seeing what the first three moves each character used most frequently, running unsupervised ML to group people into different buckets to see what it came up with...etc). But I need to move onto other things! I might revisit some if I ever end up making an RPG in full so that I can use some of that as potential patterning for some wicked AI. I still had written some code to start playing around so, here are some stats.

The numbers below are the average of a move type being present in winning matches (among everyone and among those who had that move type present in wins). This isn't perfect as a move with multiple effects will be included on both even if one effect doesn't matter (for example, Vinsfield has a 100% rate on Fatal status because of the trivial ID rate!)

Damage: 95.4%/95.4%
Buffs: 6.5%/40%
Debuffs: 0.8%/14.7%
Effects: 4.2%/22.8%
Healing: 9.1%/37.6%
Status: 16.2%/45.1%

Magic Damage: 41.8%/71.7%
Physical Damage: 65%/69.1%

Speed Buffs: 3.6%/53.6%

Disabling Status: 6.9%/39.7%
Disarming Status: 2.6%/22%
Fatal Status: 7.3%/47.2%
Minor Status: 0.9%/21.2%

Dark Damage: 5.9%/70.8%
Earth Damage: 3.4%/42.5%
Fire Damage: 11.3%/62.2%
Holy Damage: 11.1%/90.3%
Ice Damage: 5.2%/46.6%
Thunder Damage: 14.2%/70.6%
Water Damage: 0.9%/31%
Wind Damage: 3.6%/62.3%

And here is a sample of the top 10 character use rates for a selection of move types[/u]

Effects
                Rank  Percent
Ildon-Saga       1.0     90.5
Hellion-S1       2.0     81.0
Dacre-CSTW       3.0     80.6
Leonora-FF4TAY   4.0     72.9
Edge-FF4         5.0     57.6
Rei-Saga         6.0     48.6
Rosa-FF4         7.0     42.9
Umi-CSTW         8.0     39.6
Eileen-S1        9.0     37.8
Sheena-S2       10.0     36.2

Fatal
               Rank  Percent
Vinsfield-WA2   1.0    100.0
October-CSTW    2.0     99.3
Rei-Saga        3.0     97.2
Kylin-Saga      4.0     94.9
Garland-FF9     5.0     94.6
Ramirez-SoA     6.0     94.0
Lita-BoD7       7.0     93.3
Wugui-SH        8.0     92.1
Dehaui-SH       9.0     88.7
Edgar-FF6      10.0     86.8

Speed
                Rank  Percent
Bob-S2           1.0     98.1
Marle-CT         2.0     94.7
DEM-BoD7         3.0     90.6
Leonora-FF4TAY   3.0     90.6
Fuse-Saga        5.0     87.5
Umi-CSTW         6.0     84.9
Momo-BoF3        7.0     59.2
Asellus-Saga     8.0     52.8
WhiteRose-Saga   9.0     52.2
Rouge-Saga      10.0     52.1

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RPGDL Discussion / Re: Division Ranking Algorithm: The Final Frontier

« on: February 26, 2025, 05:27:21 PM »

Roadmap (Include a # in front and search for)
Building Process
Lessons Learned
Included Games
Equip Changes
Boss Changes
Rankings!
Missing Games
Accuracy and How Moves Relate to Each Other
Functions
Data Storage
Considerations
Analysis

#Considerations
Considerations are features that change how a character acts on successive iterations of a current strategy after they lose. I think most of these are conceptually self-explanatory, but I think it provides a nice list of understanding of the various ways I needed to modify default behavior.

AvoidCounters
AvoidCounters+
AvoidCountersUntilMPisGone
AvoidFutureCounters
AvoidSR
BetterHealing
ConserveMP
DelayFieldStatusToLockDownHealing
DelayStatusUntilLiftingElemRes
DontDamageUnderStatus
DontPhysicalUnderStatus
DontUseDontMoveTurn1
DontUseMPonDamage
DontUseStatusTurn (Plus the turn number)
EnforceBetterDamage
EnforceShutdown
GoForBreakthroughNotIgnore
LetBrigGoFirst
LimitToBasic
MaximizeCounters
OvercomeHealing
ProceedOnDouble
ProceedWithMissing
ReallyAvoidCounters
ReapplyBuffs (Plus the Buffs code to reapply attached)
ReapplyEffect (Plus the Effect code to reapply attached)
ReapplyStatus (Plus the Status code to reapply attached)
SaveMPForDouble
SaveMP:Damage- (Plus code of move to save MP for)
SeeIfDoubleOccurs: (Plus the turn number)
SpamHealingBasic
SpamHealingAgainstMP
SpamHealingForChange
SpeedChangeBuffTurn1
SwitchFirstMoveToCounter
TryBestDamage
TryBestDamageAfterTurn99
TryBetterDamage
TryBreakThrough MagicNull/Reflect/PerfectEvade/AntiST
TryBuffingDefensesUnderStatus
TryDefensiveBuffVersusAttackBuff
TryDefensiveBuffVersusDefenseDebuff
TryDifferentStatus
TryDispel
TryEnsureCounters
TryFaintFirst
TryFewerHits
TryFreeDamage
TryLesserOfSameElement
TryMagicNullFirst
TryMoreDrainToAvoidMissingUntil (Plus a turn number)
TryMoreHealingtoBreakDouble
TryMoreStatusAgainstRes
TryNonElem
TryNullingEnemyValid
TryOtherEffects
TryOverdrive
TryOverdriveMag
TryOverdriveStatus
TryPerfectEvadeAfterAntiMagicStatus
TryPerfectHit
TryReapplyStatusFurther
TrySilenceAndBlind
TryToAvoidHPThreshold (Plus the threshold)
Turnx:Heal (Where x is a turn number)
WaitIfNeeded
WaitIfNeeded+

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RPGDL Discussion / Re: Division Ranking Algorithm: The Final Frontier

« on: February 26, 2025, 05:27:03 PM »

Roadmap (Include a # in front and search for)
Building Process
Lessons Learned
Included Games
Equip Changes
Boss Changes
Rankings!
Missing Games
Accuracy and How Moves Relate to Each Other
Functions
Data Storage
Considerations
Analysis

#Data Storage
Storing various facets of data to keep track of a myriad of things was really critical. Here are some of the data types and some the key storage items

DataFrame (Tables)
base_framework- Store the effect of what happened each turn (d1/d2HP, MP, ct...etc)

Dictionaries (Not comprehensive, just the more important ones)
acc_general- Store the cumulative accuracy of move_types (Damage, Status, Debuffs)
acc_specific- Store the cumulative accuracy of individual mjoves
alter/weapon_alter- Use to modify stats or move effects based on different equips
alteration_framework- Store any buffs/status/debuffs/effects that characters had, including the information on the effect and how long it would be in play
boss_general/specific- Like acc_general and specific, but instead totals accuracy being on the focusing parameters I set up (see boss changes)
charge_dict- Store if any moves are being charged and if so, when they would go off so that I could keep upcoming turn order and strategies correct.
considerations- Store any items that alter how characters act
consideration_storage/reaction_dict- Store any items that might be added to considerations after a match was over (so if a character might need extra healing, that would get put into the storage and then if they lost, it would get added to considerations). Reaction_dict is for more complicated items that are often based on reacting to what the enemy was doing
counter_status- Store whether each potential counter move could actually counter based on the qualifications (so if a counter qualification was facing:st_sr&using:healing, this would split into 3 conditions of true or false)
delete_dict/defender_delete_dict- Store any items that might need to be removed from the current actor/defender's alteration_framework
dueller_opt_ct/dueller_weapon_ct- Store which armor/weapon was currently being tested for "Equips"
dueller_opt_link/dueller_weapon_link- Store the current information about the equips being run
equip_storage- Store all the potential equips to be iterated over
move_block_dict- Store if a move had a cooldown and how many turns it would be until the move could be used again.
next_ct_dict- Store when the next_ct for each character to get their next attack would occur
stat_link- Store critical stats and features tied to a character (features might be like d1HP for dueller 1 so I knew which
store_results- Store the results of each sub-match so that I could then pick out which one should be the final result. This included data on the winner, remaining_HP, turns_needed, winning_strat, loser_strat, features_checked, how many versions_run, final_version, winning_percentage, winner_statuses and more!
store_alters- Store the results of store_results for each equip combination so that I could choose which one was the correct "final" version
strats- Store the strats that needed to be iterated over until I get to the last one to see who won overall. A few other dictionary feed into this.
strat_counts- Store which strat each dueller was on
turn_count- Store how many moves in the current strat had been processed
valid_purpose- Store the purpose each equip had so that I could check if it was actually relevant so I wouldn't run every combonation.
wait_count- Store how many turns if any someone has waited

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RPGDL Discussion / Re: Division Ranking Algorithm: The Final Frontier

« on: February 26, 2025, 05:26:37 PM »

Roadmap (Include a # in front and search for)
Building Process
Lessons Learned
Included Games
Equip Changes
Boss Changes
Rankings!
Missing Games
Accuracy and How Moves Relate to Each Other
Functions
Data Storage
Considerations
Analysis

#Accuracy and How Moves Relate to Each Other
So one of the big challenges in this system is that literally everything needs to be considered and operationalized. So many decisions to make! Accuracy helps illustrate some of the details that need to be considered.

A move hits when it's processed accuracy is greater than 50%. If a 70% move is used twice, the second has a processed accuracy of 49% and won't hit. In thinking about accuracy, I had to decide how different low accuracy moves should interact each other. I didn't want moves to just stack because then a 40% bad status, followed by a 25% good status would mean that the 25% good status would hit turn 1. I eventually decided that moves needed to clear 2 checks: one check related to the specific move and one check related to the cumulated accuracy of the move type. So take a 60% acc move followed by an 80%. The 60% would hit, but the 80% would miss because the cumulative effect would cause a miss. There could be a little complex tailoring I could do here, and sometimes this interacted weirdly with elemental resistances wearing off, but it felt at least fair enough.

#Functions
These are the functions to give an idea of all the pieces that needed to be written

apply_def
apply_eva
apply_elem_resistance
turns_to_hit
proc_hit- Alter the acccuracy storage features
create_turn_options- Come up with the quickest option to end a match via damage
run_turns- Run the naive damage only matches
run_turns_complex- The backbone
proc_speed_change- Change the speed stat when a move is used that changes something or an effect wears off
adjust_damage
check_successful_hit- Yes or no will a move hit
reset_stat- When an effect wears off
change_stat
proc_upcoming_ct- Oooof. Okay, if a character checks if using Haste is a good idea, they actually need to know how this will impact turn order going forward. This function deals with creating the looking forward turn order with and without an effect so that I could check if Haste (or Slow) made sense. This function was a painful one to write.
check_initial_strat_fatal
change_status_rate
choose_healing
check_for_upcoming_death- I should have written this function so much sooner than I did. I had some stupid stand in at first. Obviously, if a character is about to die, this will likely change how to act (either to prevent dying or perhaps using a better damage move to at least get closer to killing the enemy). There are a lot of things that go into this function (especially turn order; a character might die in the next hit, but if they are about to double, they had an extra turn to figure out what to do)

6

RPGDL Discussion / Re: Division Ranking Algorithm: The Final Frontier

« on: February 26, 2025, 05:26:19 PM »

Roadmap (Include a # in front and search for)
Building Process
Lessons Learned
Included Games
Equip Changes
Boss Changes
Rankings!
Missing Games
Accuracy and How Moves Relate to Each Other
Functions
Data Storage
Considerations
Analysis

#Missing Games
If I was to throw in even more duellers, this is about the order that I would consider (WNR means would need replay)

Various FE duellers- Some of these are ready to go (mostly FE 10). Some others I would consider need some work on setting up options (mostly related to changing evasion levels; there is some setup for that, but the others that fall under this category need something more expansive).
Various Brig 1 duellers.- They are 100% ready to go.
Phantasy Star 4- WNR, but when I get the steam deck that wouldn't be a big deal, there are a lot of good duellers and it would be relatively straightforward
Breath of Fire 4- I'd need to redo some stats (some Masters, Double Blow or something allowed since it's the third worst addable physical move after Super Combo and Shadowwalk). Also, a few other things here and there like stackable Magic buffs and some effect for Ursula's guts. Maybe also do Ryu 3 at this point.
FFT- Ramza, Agrias, Mustadio, Orlandu, W8, Beowulf, Archer, Geomancer, Ninja, White Mage, Black Mage, Time Mage. Representing more good equips!
Xenogears- I would probably just ignore the limit effect. Of course, in that case, I could move it up the list perhaps
Missing FF4TAY duellers (Ceodore, Rosa, Porom)- I didn't rank them because the charge times plus the tweaking needed plus the perfect evasion would take more time than I wanted to put in at that point
Breath of Fire 2- I'd need to determine if Mdef functioned as Status Res in any way for the Pcs, but I believe literally everything else needed exists and I have a firm handle on (minus a Guts effect, but BoF4 would cover that).
A few ATL2 duellers- I'd do nearly everyone, but I never dealt with MP Damage (which wouldn't be bad conceptually, but I'd be more concerned with that I don't have MP averages for games and games like Suiko would be a bit painful to quantify. As such, there would need to be some type of weird decision making).
Final Fantasy X- Although truly most of them wish I wouldn't. The only Celestials I now see as legal are Yuna, Rikku and Auron, so a lot of them look very notably worse. But also, limits exist and I'd need to code them.
Final Fantasy VII- I have a conceptual way to deal with limits (just call them "Equips"), but still a bit weird. But doable!
Final Fantasy VIII- Not too much to offer, but doable.
Pokemon- A lot of to offer. A variety of dueller, elements, elemental weaknesses. Had thought about putting it in, but I suspect that there are a lot of little things I would need to include. Also, would probably just limit them to 5 moves, but would allow all 5 at once.
Valkyrie Profile- Only this low because WNR but I have wanted to replay it forever and certainly will one day hopefully soon. Would play around with the weapon choices a bit since there's another level of insane weirdness regarding progression that I would love to fit in and VP would be a good test case for thinking about it (although it would probably be the only game I might apply it to)
Atelier Iris 1- Perhaps. I wonder if I have enough status notes existing that I don't really need to go any testing. If so, this could be easy but I also suspect there are a lot of weird effects that might be a pain to put in.
Shadow Hearts 1- WNR, but very doable.
Radiata Stories- Wide variety of duellers. Might need to determine speeds a bit though. Including because this is one I would enjoy replaying.
Persona 3- Cleanest Persona game (albeit the weakest). Would need to dig in a little into an old save (which I would hopefully have)
Shining Force 1/2- I did actually prep the stats for this. WNR parts of them, but it does make good fodder.
Disgaea 1- Dead easy, just doesn't offer much.
Breath of Fire 1- Certainly feasible and really doesn't even need much testing except for maybe Deis. But also, not a lot of dueller to care about and someone like Nina would need a lot of tailoring.
Final Fantasy I- Would need stackable Evade buffs and other testing, but it's not undoable.
Dragon Quest 4- Would need to replay or get Super to. But which version?!!?!!! No, that's actually a valid question, but it's pretty clean.
Dragon Quest 11- Would need some testing, but probably doable. The thing is I only played a little and watched Super for the most part. But playing the 2D isn't a bad option.
ATL 3- I never beat the game, but there are a few characters (non-status using ones) I could pull out. Velhart is an interesting thought.
Dragon Quest 8-Would need some testing, but perhaps not a full replay (which I don't see myself doing). But relatively clean (characters would be locked into 1 build though).
Lunar games in full- WNRs and would need to figure out what to do with L1 speed averages, but very clean.
Shadow Hearts 2- The RT issues make it a little bit more challenging, but I suspect that the game is more viable in that regard than many other games with RT.
Digital Devil Saga- Well, moves costing HP aren't something I really dealt with (danced around it with Mazus), but workable. WNR which is not something inconceivable one day
Radiant Historia- WNR, not super interesting duellers
Star Ocean 1/2- Would need to do some notable testing to update some stuff, but I certainly do love the games.
Super Mario RPG- Very doable, just not a fan of the game and WNR
Disgaea 2- Would need testing to deal with new views on acc/evasion and the buffs are headachey, but it's doable.
Xenosaga 3- WNR
Persona 4/5- Would need more testing than P3, but partially doable perhaps but probably overrating that
Final Fantasy V- Would need to likely finish the replay I stopped when I realized that I just didn't really like the game at all. A lot of cleaning up to do.
Lufia 1- WNR but doable.
Other Fire Emblem games that I have played and have the stats on- Mostly doable?
Star Ocean 3- I'd need to go something about turn 2 speed and it would need a lot of testing.
Xenosaga 1- I have the notes, but I just don't really care. If only I saw S-Chain as turn 1 (in that there's no way I'd see KOSMOS being able to use it on turn 1 when it competes with the best game in the move) this would be higher.
Jeanne D'Arc- Yes, there are limits, but ones that I might be able to easily deal with. WNR
Eternal Poison- Lots of good stuff here. Elements and weaknesses, lots of variety. WNR and do testing and testing would be much more painful than most other games on the list.
Phantasy Star 2- I could, but I don't care.

I'd likely never consider
ATL4- I'd have to replay it to get status resistances from enemies, don't see that ever happening
Bravely Default- Won't do multi-acting and this is the worst version of it.
Breath of Fire 5- Testing enemy resistances seems painful beyond belief + Multi acting
Chrono Cross- Would fit into the designed system very badly
Earthbound- Needs status testing, won't be replaying it.
Final Fantasy 3- Because just general no the game. Would never touch it again.
Final Fantasy 13- Quickened turns by cutting them short would not be doable.
Any Grandia game or Child of Light- The speed variances with both CT and RT would be a nightmare. Also MP and SP for Grandias.
Golden Sun- The changing stats from using summons is not undoable, but WNR which I can never see happening.
I Am Setsuna- Limits
Legaias- The number of potential combinations of moves would be...well...what's the correct description here? Okay, I bolded this and I'm unsure of the right word very good reason. So, tangent  time. In 2018/2019, I made a Legaia 2 stat topic. Now obviously, getting everything nailed down in Legaia is a massive task, but I did it. Yes, I got the mults for all the moves, figured out hit bonuses, got the defense effects, did a deep dive on equip effects...etc. Everything! Well, except status hit rates. There was very clearly some totally secret enemy effects. And it didn't apply to single status (like all Sleep attacks), but rather individual attacks. I did enough rounds of testing to realize that something was definitely happening, but I didn't have a shred of insight into it. Now, in retrospect, the correct answer would have been to just average the hit rates across the endgame enemies and call it a day, but oh well.

But when I say I did everything else, I REALLY mean it. Because what does everything else cover? It covers determining strategies several turns ahead based on current AP and maximizing damage over any number of turns. I created an algorithm that could apply to all 5 characters where it could run through literally all the combinations of options to determine the best damage strategies over time. But I thought it would be super unfair to then take this literally for a 3 turn average because in most games, that involves picking 3 moves off a relatively small list, but this involved picking dozens of moves from an option list that effectively could span *checks notes* over a quadrillion combinations.So I came up with Legaia Information Criterion. Below are the notes I would have had in the topic if I had finished it.

LEGAIA INFORMATION CRITERION: This is super critical. Legaia more than any other game took extreme measures to determine how to maximize damage. There are a multitude of moves that can be linked in in up to hundreds of thousands of ways (in 1 turn! Not counting using excessive numbers of basic physicals or basic physicals at the end because you ran out of space for something better. You want a 3 turn and you might be looking at over a quadrillion combinations. That’s 10 to the 15th power combinations) all with different mults, hits…etc. It feels very unrealistic to take the maximums at face value since even if you stumble across the best combo in game, you can’t save it (except in your memory!). In order to determine what the best 3 turn actually was, I had to test all mults (which are less consistent across AP usage than one would suspect), figure out chaining bonuses, program a system that could create every valid combination (properly accounting for moves that chain into each other) over 3 turns and then determine the best one.

It feels wrong to take best damage numbers at complete face value because no human will ever be able to do this in game. My solution is LIC, or Legaia Information Criterion (Information Criterion are used in statistical models to pick the best model by penalizing models with excessive complexity. Not to say that mine works in the same manner, but same spirit).

The following all factor into LIC:
--How many valid combinations exist. For simplicity’s sake, I am using the number of valid combinations available at 100 AP (Note that if Lang uses Ruler’s Legging, I’m doubling this number since getting a last second item that completely rearranges all your combos practically doubles the amount to learn- and even worse, gives you a very short time to learn to maximize)
--How much variation in damage exists in a 3 turn average (less deviation = more likely to see the best damage consistently)

For comparison, in the old DL topic, Lang’s best turn 1 move generates 84 AP off a 18.79 mult, but he can actually get one combo with a  23.08 mult (same AP) or a 22.39 mult for 96 AP. However, with over 60,000 turn 1 options (over 30,000 of which I’d consider categorically viable), it’s easy to see why getting a move that did 20% less damage and generated 12 less AP than ideal was still a really good option!

Legend of Hereos: Trails Games- Similar to Grandia in terms of the headache of varying CT and RT plus MP and SP where SP is also limiteseque. Listing separately because in some of the earlier games the CT/RT stuff could maybe be collapsed and be close enough (But Cold Steel would be a chaotic disaster, probably the worst game I can think of).
Lufia 2/3- Limits
Mana Khemias- Heavy on differing RT creates too many options
MMXCM- Would not replay to get a sufficient sense of the game plus limits
Ogre Battle-  Won't do multi-acting plus other weird issues
Octopath Traveller- Would love to throw this in, but dealing with BP would need several additional levels of work
Persona 2- WNR, can't really see that happening. I like it, but it's not a game to revisit these days.
Shadow Hearts 3-Limits
Skies of Arcadia- SP
Soul Nomad-Love you, but that typing would need a whole nother level of data.
Suikoden 3-  Too much speed variance
Suikoden 5-  Mages have speed variance, fighters need too much testing to fully get right.
Suikoden Tactics- Somewhat doable, but the elemental system would take work. Although maybe overestimating how much.
Suikoden Tiekreis- The challenge of actually getting the stats out and status testing on top of that.
Tales games-  If I want ARPGs, I at least have Star Ocean speeds more nailed down and Radiata Stories offers a much better range of duellers and these games tended to get too complicated to fit in easily anyways.
Triangle Strategy- More needing to deal with BP. I mean, I could use make it MP (and I do have an MP Regen effect), but I imagine this would need to be very, very tailored.
Valkyrie Profile 2- Lots of testing would be needed I bet.
Wild Arms 1-5-  Limits. Some of these are more viable than others though where perhaps the limits in 5 don't really even matter?
Wild Arms XF- There's so many weird little effects
Wizard Oz- No to any multi-acting

7

RPGDL Discussion / Re: Division Ranking Algorithm: The Final Frontier

« on: February 26, 2025, 05:25:59 PM »

Roadmap (Include a # in front and search for)
Building Process
Lessons Learned
Included Games
Equip Changes
Boss Changes
Rankings!
Missing Games
Accuracy and How Moves Relate to Each Other
Functions
Data Storage
Considerations
Analysis

#Rankings!
Here are the scores (pre and post equip) mapped onto a 2-5 range. If I was to make an edit, I'd make an intermediate stage with just the weapons (Zidane wins 68.5% of his matches based on equip choices and I'd like to know which of those were based on armors)

Godlike

Character	Game	Final Rank	Pre Equip Rank
The Dark One	ATL2	4.976	4.976
Yuna	FF10	4.916	4.892
Myria	BoF3	4.904	4.904
Fou Lu	BoF4	4.892	4.892
Piastol	SoA	4.892	4.904
Tir	S1	4.88	4.88
False Althena	Lunar	4.857	4.857
Dehaui	SH	4.857	4.869
Ghaleon	Lunar	4.809	4.809
Royce	Lunar	4.809	4.809
Ted	S4	4.773	4.809
T260G	Saga	4.767	4.779
TimeLord	Saga	4.749	4.749
Riou	S2	4.725	4.761
Teepo	BoF3	4.701	4.737
Leonard	Saga	4.665	4.677
Rudo	Brig2	4.653	4.653
Edge	FF4TAY	4.629	4.582
Dhesignea	FE10	4.618	4.618
Dr Nusakan	Saga	4.618	4.725
Xenobia	Lunar	4.612	4.624
BossBeatrix	FF9	4.594	4.594
Jowy	S2	4.594	4.594
Golbez	FF4TAY	4.546	4.402
Kefka	FF6	4.546	4.546
Sephiran	FE10	4.54	4.54
Terra	FF6	4.522	4.486
Red	Saga	4.51	4.51
Rabbit	Saga	4.504	4.54

Heavy

Character	Game	Final Rank	Pre Equip Rank
Rubicant	FF4	4.498	4.582
Kain	FF4TAY	4.486	4.295
Sierra	S2	4.474	4.498
Tim	Brig2	4.462	4.474
Naesala	FE10	4.444	4.456
Riki	Saga	4.438	4.462
Wugui	SH	4.432	4.456
Nailah	FE10	4.414	4.426
Momo	BoF3	4.402	4.271
Liza	Saga	4.402	4.414
Ramirez	SoA	4.378	4.402
Garnet	FF9	4.367	4.175
Caina	WA2	4.361	4.373
Galcian	SoA	4.355	4.402
ZEKE	Saga	4.319	4.39
Mazus	S2	4.313	4.42
BossKanon	WA2	4.307	4.307
Lloyd	LoD	4.283	4.283
Stella	Brig2	4.265	4.301
Zidane	FF9	4.259	2.203
Ptolomea	WA2	4.253	4.253
Eileen	S1	4.247	4.355
Eliza	Brig2	4.241	4.325
Rubino	Brig2	4.211	4.271
Celes	FF6	4.187	3.984
Flik	S1	4.187	4.426
Flik	S2	4.175	4.402
SteinerTin	FF9	4.133	3.966
Tana	FE8	4.127	4.139
Shadow	FF6	4.127	3.996
Kyle	Brig2	4.11	4.133
Yang	FF4	4.104	4.092
PzKwV	Saga	4.08	4.104
Sonya	S1	4.08	4.104
Della	Brig2	4.068	4.104
Luc	S2	4.056	4.104
Mu'ah	Brig2	4.044	4.271
Lo Fong	S4	4.038	4.205
Rosa	FF4	4.032	3.9
Warlock	S4	4.014	4.122
Porom	FF4	4.002	3.859
Garland	FF9	4.002	4.205
Rei	BoF3	3.996	3.936
Ursula	FF4TAY	3.996	3.363
Adieu	Brig2	3.984	4.116
Rydia	FF4TAY	3.948	3.518
Emelia	Saga	3.948	3.936
Slash	CT	3.936	3.936
Umi	CSTW	3.9	4.032
Edgar	FF6	3.9	3.96
Lani	FF9	3.9	3.924
Alen	S1	3.9	4.032
Colm	FE8	3.888	3.912
Sabin	FF6	3.888	3.805
Tengaar	S2	3.888	4.044
Kika	S4	3.888	3.9
Vinsfield	WA2	3.888	3.888
Grenseal	S1	3.865	4.104
Joshua	FE8	3.841	3.853
Palom	FF4	3.835	3.811
Talia	Brig2	3.829	3.876
Steiner	FF9	3.829	3.542
Freya	FF9	3.817	3.805
Sigurd	S4	3.817	3.865
Yang	FF4TAY	3.805	3.829
Eiko	FF9	3.769	3.673
Antenora	WA2	3.763	3.799

Middle

Character	Game	Final Rank	Pre Equip Rank
Lavos	CT	3.745	3.781
Gekkou	FF4TAY	3.745	3.494
Tsukinowa	FF4TAY	3.745	3.602
Rouge	Saga	3.727	3.775
Zozma	Saga	3.721	3.733
Ginger	Brig2	3.715	3.823
Cthulhu	CSTW	3.709	3.757
Stallion	S2	3.709	3.793
Ayla	CT	3.697	3.578
Jewel	S4	3.697	3.721
DEM	BoD7	3.661	3.685
Cecil	FF4TAY	3.661	3.434
Vivi	FF9	3.661	3.327
Sheena	S1	3.661	3.9
WhiteRose	Saga	3.649	3.625
Cleo	S1	3.649	3.793
October	CSTW	3.637	3.685
Izayoi	FF4TAY	3.637	3.064
Soren	FE10	3.614	3.661
Crowley	S1	3.614	3.685
Jeane	S4	3.614	3.924
Zangetsu	FF4TAY	3.602	3.661
Keneth	S4	3.602	3.865
Millie	S2	3.596	3.93
Marle	CT	3.59	3.482
Amarant	FF9	3.59	3.303
Medessa	Brig2	3.584	3.679
Camus	S2	3.584	3.715
Jiu	Brig2	3.578	3.637
Frog	CT	3.578	3.422
Rebecca	FE7	3.572	3.608
Crono	CT	3.566	3.53
Mizuki	S4	3.566	3.59
Umimaru	Brig2	3.554	3.578
Valeria	S1	3.548	3.584
Dart	FE7	3.542	3.59
Sin	Brig2	3.518	3.602
Palom	FF4TAY	3.518	3.446
Asellus	Saga	3.518	3.53
Hector	FE7	3.494	3.53
Sara	BoD7	3.482	3.59
Killey	S2	3.464	3.584
Selma	S4	3.458	3.494
Nina	S2	3.446	3.566
Fuse	Saga	3.434	3.482
Emma	Brig2	3.41	3.506
Edge	FF4	3.41	3.267
RonnieBell	S1	3.404	3.44
Alsin	Brig2	3.386	3.446
Hellion	S1	3.386	3.518
Rydia	FF4	3.363	3.303
Ginny	Brig2	3.351	3.41
Vigoro	SoA	3.327	3.422
Katarina	S4	3.321	3.548
Sharpe	CSTW	3.315	3.398
Sid	Brig2	3.279	3.398
Bob	S2	3.279	3.315
Georg	S2	3.279	3.315
Gijimu	S2	3.267	3.303
Vincent	S2	3.267	3.315
Sheena	S2	3.261	3.297
Judecca	WA2	3.261	3.285
Kasumi	S1	3.255	3.279
LoWen	S2	3.255	3.279
Dalton	CT	3.243	3.279
Dacre	CSTW	3.231	3.434
Paws	CSTW	3.219	3.267
Sei	Saga	3.219	3.1
Toby	Brig2	3.183	3.195
Oswin	FE7	3.183	3.219
Kylin	Saga	3.171	3.118
Leonora	FF4TAY	3.147	3.076
Quina	FF9	3.147	3.016
L'Arachel	FE8	3.141	3.333
Robo	CT	3.082	3.034
Cecil	FF4	3.076	2.884
Lita	BoD7	3.064	3.183
Peco	BoF3	3.058	3.064
Gen	Saga	3.052	3.088
Kahn	S2	3.052	3.1
Harley	FF4TAY	3.04	2.741
Kate	S4	3.04	3.124
Iyona	Brig2	3.034	3.297
Tommy	Brig2	3.004	3.028

Light

Character	Game	Final Rank	Pre Equip Rank
Snowe	S4	2.98	2.992
Grahf	XG	2.968	2.968
Konrad	S4	2.95	3.058
Hawkeye	FE7	2.932	2.992
Meg	S2	2.932	2.968
Leo	Lunar	2.908	2.932
Edward	FF4	2.896	2.418
Ugetsu	S4	2.89	2.902
Rei	Saga	2.861	2.837
Lucius	FE7	2.855	2.902
Kurthnaga	FE10	2.849	2.896
Pesmerga	S2	2.849	2.908
Lucca	CT	2.843	2.544
Elena	Brig2	2.837	2.944
Lo Hak	S4	2.837	2.944
Reinbach	S4	2.825	2.837
Fukien	S1	2.801	2.837
Hervey	S4	2.801	2.813
Franz	FE8	2.795	2.819
Luc	S1	2.789	2.849
Pick	Brig2	2.783	2.89
Ildon	Saga	2.753	2.753
Rina	S2	2.753	2.825
Erik	BoD7	2.741	2.753
Kirkus	S1	2.741	2.753
Shin	S2	2.711	2.723
Lute	Saga	2.693	2.705
Cotton	Saga	2.657	2.705
Nina	BoF3	2.622	2.502
Palmer	FF7	2.622	2.681
Akaghi	S4	2.622	2.633
Gilliam	Brig2	2.586	2.598
Innes	FE8	2.556	2.58
Pahn	S1	2.526	2.55
Luca	FF4TAY	2.514	2.347
Ronfar	Lunar	2.514	2.526
Locke	FF6	2.49	2.406
Eugene	S4	2.49	2.502
Viktor	S2	2.484	2.508
Humphrey	S2	2.478	2.502
Slime	Saga	2.454	2.466
Kwanda	S1	2.454	2.478
Miklotov	S2	2.442	2.454
Reinhold	S4	2.424	2.448
Tai Ho	S1	2.418	2.442
Cid	FF4TAY	2.406	2.263
Chiepoo	S4	2.406	2.418
Kuromimi	S1	2.382	2.394
Garr	BoF3	2.359	2.299
Relm	FF6	2.335	2.251
Kasim	S1	2.335	2.347
Lepant	S1	2.335	2.347
Milich	S1	2.311	2.323
Tal	S4	2.311	2.335
Milia	S1	2.299	2.323
Yam Koo	S1	2.299	2.311
Oulan	S2	2.299	2.311
Nanami	S2	2.275	2.287
Pablo	S4	2.275	2.347
Koyu	S2	2.263	2.275
Lino	S4	2.263	2.275
Kain	FF4	2.245	2.161
Ember	CSTW	2.227	2.239
Cid	FF4	2.179	2.108
Viktor	S1	2.179	2.203
Axel	S4	2.179	2.179
Dario	S4	2.131	2.155
Sylvina	S1	2.096	2.096
Freed	S2	2.048	2.048
Gremio	S1	2.036	2.036
Krin	S1	2.036	2.036
Maria	XG	2.0	2.0

8

RPGDL Discussion / Re: Division Ranking Algorithm: The Final Frontier

« on: February 26, 2025, 05:25:36 PM »

Roadmap (Include a # in front and search for)
Building Process
Lessons Learned
Included Games
Equip Changes
Boss Changes
Rankings!
Missing Games
Accuracy and How Moves Relate to Each Other
Functions
Data Storage
Considerations
Analysis

#Equip Changes
Unfair and unbalanced effects from equips is definitely something that has stuck in a few craws before. I decided that just like I did with status hit rates, I could use in-game features of equips to rate them. Basically, an equip that resists elements or status no longer keeps the effect indefinitely in a match; it will resist a certain number of actions that check it's resistance (so an armor that blocks Fire might block 1 Fire attack or 3 or how ever many).

Available duration of the equip was the most prominent feature that determined how long an equip effect lasted. The other parameters are ease of obtaining, part of a comprehensive blocking system, viable at endgame, true unique, unique in concept, similar early equip and tradeoffs. The typical duration is 2 or 3 attacks, which still is potent enough to delay enemies sufficiently to win, but not always (Suiko Thunder mages lost about ~25 matches on average when equips come into play, which is about 10% of all matches. They probably lose to most with Thunder defense, but sad FF4 Kain and such still exist so it's less of an auto-loss).

#Boss Changes
I initially only had a few bosses (like 2), but when I started thinking about adding bosses I really had to sit down and think. Using Jade as my example because he's the one that always had a screamingly obvious issue. Jade has a 12.5% chance of using Bolt X each turn, so letting him spam it felt off to me forever. But it didn't make sense to just kind of gut check things and apply penalties like that when I could try and come up with some kind of metric for spammability. I basically decided that if there wasn't a greater than 50% chance of using a move in the first 2.5 turns, it's not turn 1 to me and I went from there. Basically there's the first turn a boss could use a move and then the cooldown until they could use it again.

Basically it was
Turn 1: 25%+
Turn 2: 13%+
Turn 3: 9%+
Turn 4: 6.7%+
Turn 5: 5.4%+
Turn 6: 4.6%+
Turn 7: 3.9%+
Turn 8: 3.5%+

Cooldown
40%+- 0 (50.7% Chance of seeing this in two 2.5 turn breaks in a row. .712 * .712 chance of seeing move in each 2.5 turns)
18.7+%- 1

Now for bosses where I had the exact chances, this was easy. Of course, the chance of using moves might chance as HP changes so I had whole structures to deal with that. For someone like False Althena that used set moves, Ray was turn 5 in game, so that was turn 2 and then every other turn. For many of these bosses, I had not played their games in an eternity, so I looked at a lot of Youtube videos to try and get a sense of how moves are used (like SoA bosses; some bosses will spam great things early and some bosses are Ramirez; also of note, Ghaleon AI?!! He loves to basically spam one combo for 5-6 turns but the combo was not consistent between different playthroughs I saw on youtube although I seem to remember someone losing and getting the same combos, so they may be consistent for any particular save). Since bosses were really less about any specific boss being 100% correct and more having the representation, I didn't overly stress about it.

So already some bosses were pretty unhappy with this change, but for some it may have gotten a lot worse! Boss AI is often stupid in game. They might be in position to kill someone and instead hit someone with full HP and kind of waste the turn. I introduced a mathematical equation for a focus penalty. A boss depending on a lot of ST damage that is poor at killing is going to unfocus in game (unless you are like Lani and like to rabidly attack a target) and I factored in the chance of killing straightout, the chance of a kill as a follow up blow, the area of the move and the number of Pcs faced to factor when a move wouldn't hit in a duel due to unfocusing. This is why some bosses that seemed like clear Godlikes at first fell into High Heavy.

Oh right, one more illustrated by Myria/Fou Lu. It's great you have these status attacks that face PCs where the default is everyone is resisting status, making the actual in game rate you see much worse than the max rate. Yeah, I'm factoring that into status hit rates or elemental damage. Generally not the largest effect (Rubicant for example has 1.3 PC HP damage to me; he's much unhappier about how I see his HP), but most bosses got at least a little penalty on something.

9

RPGDL Discussion / Re: Division Ranking Algorithm: The Final Frontier

« on: February 26, 2025, 05:25:14 PM »

Roadmap (Include a # in front and search for)
Building Process
Lessons Learned
Included Games
Equip Changes
Boss Changes
Rankings!
Missing Games
Accuracy and How Moves Relate to Each Other
Functions
Data Storage
Considerations
Analysis

#Included Games
The initial games I ranked were the following (including some notes about challenges that each game posed). All these games I felt pretty clear on all the way stats worked.

BoD7- Fairly straightforward as far as things go. The big decision (shared with CSTW) was what to do about matches that ran longer (I ended up applying a 10% damage taken penalty for each time healing was used and for every action taken after the 5th one). Also fairlyquick to run, minus when I threw in Sara's Stun (basically a 1 turn Stun trying for a double is a good way for things to take a long time!).
BoF3- A nice choice to ensure that I had some status protection equips to get into the mix. Some of the specifics of Sleep, Rei's transformation (and enforcing what can't be used after transforming), Nina's Debuffs and buff stacking are all features that needed some really detailed work. Haste-healers take forever to run and Momo is one the worst. There end up being so many permutations of what they can do, Momo especially! Momo definitely needed some fine-tuning. I skipped Ryu 3 because Rei already took enough work for all that it wouldn't be horrible now.
Brig2- Included because I wanted counters to be represented in some matter, as well as some balanced elemental resistances/weaknesses. Although technically, the way I did accuracy for the game doesn't fit how I would see it now, so there is a little warping. I decided that on turn 1, DontMove can't be used without ceding initiative (unless the opponent cedes the initiative back, which is so that it doesn't go slower healer->DontMovex2 as a kill). There was a fair amount of work getting the counters up and running correctly (since it meant I needed to create a method for duellers to try and avoid counters as well as strategies to try and maximize counter use). MagicNull also took some work, but nothing crazy. Iyona took some hard coding. No one here takes too long to run.
CSTW- Fairly straightforward, although not as much as BoD7. Dacre was probably the worst haste healer to run time wise (oh god, especially bad when I introduced Suiko games and the healing/status healing that Dacre can't stop. Running through Dacre v S4 was lengthy and that was without Wind Rune users).
CT- Due to the MP issues the game has, I really needed to have a way to play with mixes of different damage combos against healing (Brig 2 isn't great here with mages, but basic physicals there are normally solid so it wasn't a big issue). Frog and especially Marle took some time.

Then
S1- So blessedly easy and quick. Gave me a lot of clean elemental fighters and was good for fodder, plus nice smash from Tir.
S2- Speed changes on some moves really led to some work, since that basically needs to be checked every turn and needs to ensure that even makes sense to use the moves in question. Also, that makes any healer effectively a haste-healer on top of it! Worth noting that I dropped Dark and Wind resistances, which was a nice initial feature for inclusion. Wind is rare in game and when you see it, it really doesn't matter and Dark is even worse (3 Dark moves in the game! One of them ignores elemental resistance! The best of the other two is 5HKO and you are happy to see it because it means the bosses isn't using something decent).
S4- I ignored Wind Rune users since no status tests, so otherwise it was very easy! Just needed to decide to how to take the ITD part of magic damage (which wasn't exactly how it works in game, but decisions had to be made).
FF6- I wanted to start including some elemental equips, so I landed here next. Plus is felt like a very DL core game. Terra took some work because there was no moves with a Recharge Time/Charge Time at this point (I gave Morph a very short Recharge time). Getting Terra to use strategies correctly meant some hard coding. Locke and the Valiant Knife also took some work. Strago (due to not having a great way to deal with FF 6 Bad Breath), Setzer (random variance), Umaro (randomness, although could smooth this out to include if I wanted to), Gau and Mog were not included.
Saga- I was not anticipating including Saga, but at this point I saw that it had a whole lot to offer, such as a host of decent diverse Godlikes, elemental strengths and weaknesses, status resistance/weaknesses (oh those human fighter lolzy weaknesses) and a lot of interesting duellers. Rouge's Psychic Prison, dealing with moves that use all MP and get weaker with less MP, Overdrive, and GlassShield all stand out as challenges. Of course, Riki/Cotton had speeded up healing; I could use the same structure as I did for S2, but they still took forever to run! Robots sometimes could also be slow because they don't always kill quickly, but last quite some time. Emilia is the only gun user I included; I couldn't deal with gun users that might have 3 different speeds (in fairness, I flattened Emilia's speed) plus the move that used all bullets at once. Sorry Roufas, Mei-Ling, Capt Hamilton and Doll (although I could probably swing Doll). Also, I merged JP and WP since I didn't have a second non-Charge resource type coded up and really didn't want to do that. Since the one thing I never dealt with was MP Damage, so there were no concerns there. Luckily, there's basically no one that uses both types and in those cases, I found other ways to deal with it (generally with Charges).
FF4- I really wanted more elemental resistances, did a lot of work figuring out FF4 stat topic wise and was happy to include more FF. If I could go back, I would rethink this choice. CHARGE TIMES WERE ABOMINATIONS. I've mentioned haste-healers were already bad enough due to how it kind of throw off turns, but charge times were so much worse. Is someone going to start charging a move that looks good at first, but is pointless when it lands? Charge Times took so much effort and not just the strategic part, even just getting it working right. When you need to create variables based on when the next couple of turns for both duellers will process, having things that can constantly throw those off are not fun. Also, FF4 and TAY took the most hard coding by far. PerfectEvade that dissipates based on being attacked needs a lot of specificity! Also, so many different equip combinations!
FF4TAY- I already had 4 in, so I thought to go at least throw in most of TAY (I ended up ignoring Ceodore, Rosa and Porom because my will go through the level of hardcoding and match checking that would have been needed was destroyed after Leonora). Not to mention that unlike FF4, Haste actually would have mattered. Also shoutout to TAY Edge, who is like the only Godlike that surprised me (although if I look at it again, it seems kind of obvious).
FF9- After I cut the elemental resistances from S2, Wind, Holy and Dark had no one really resisting them except rare cases, so in came FF9. Bad Breath needed a little tailoring, but I had to decide what equip combos I'd find kosher, but really nothing here was too bad. I never actually checked Eiko or Amarant's results though.
FE7/8/10- For all that I've had historical issues with FE in the DL, I had a lot of the framework ready to go and it felt like there should be some representation. There were some features about counters that I needed to add, but it really wasn't bad.
Grab Bag of Bosses and a few other assorted PCs- Around FF9, adding characters really had less and less to do with characters themselves, but when I looked at the overall roster, it was screamingly obvious that the lack of high tier bosses was really warping results. So my goal was to grab a bunch of Godlike and especially High Godlike bosses (although after I changed how I view bosses, not all initial Godlike bosses landed there). So False Althena, Fou Lu, Yuna (faked it so that she just had massive, massive unstoppable damage), The Dark One, Myria 3, Teepo, Kefka, Rubicant, Lloyd, the SoA bosses (useful for boss ID representation), Dehaui, Wugui, Lloyd, Lunar 1 Bosses (making it so Ghaleon's double acting was treated as 1 move) and then WA 2 bosses since I thought that lower divisions needed more boss representation (I thought about Zog/Sara but between Dheart and my new boss views they would be horrible). I did use a lot of youtube videos to understand their patterns (discussed more in my boss section).

10

RPGDL Discussion / Division Ranking Algorithm: The Final Frontier

« on: February 26, 2025, 05:24:49 PM »

In 2018, I wrote

"In doing these, I found myself kind of tempted to compile all data for damage and speed data for all DL characters in a database because many CSH characters are just checking whether someone has done sufficient damages in a set number of turns. "

So did do that. I included stats, turn 1 to turn 5 damage (breaking out by physical, magical or mixed) and various other things. Then I wrote some code to rank people and to run very naive matches. But I hated the naive matches that were just based on damage and so I expanded it so it factored in...well, basically almost everything by the end. And now that I have reached the end of the project, so it's time to share. I'm keeping these descriptions mostly high-level while touching on major points. My apologies if there are things that don't make sense; summing up all this work did prove to be a challenge.

First, a roadmap to how to navigate this topic. The following are the sections you can navigate to. To navigate to a section, search for # + the name of the section
Building Process
Lessons Learned
Included Games
Equip Changes
Boss Changes
Rankings!
Missing Games
Accuracy and How Moves Relate to Each Other
Functions
Data Storage
Considerations
Analysis

#Building Process
I started with a set of just slightly better than naive comparisons that factor in only damage. I thought that it might be interesting to see how adding in different features would affect win and losses. So I added in run order:
'Base', 'Def', 'ITD', 'AtkBuff', 'InnateElem', 'Acc' and 'Eva'. Each time I would create the basic options of how a character would kill their opponent the fastest. Of course, the time came when I wanted to throw in everything. I ran the following in succession:
'FullDamage', 'Counter', 'Healing', 'Drain', 'Speed', 'Defenses', 'Evade', 'Fatal', 'Disable', 'Disarm', 'Minor', 'Evade', 'Effects', 'Debuffs', 'Status_Res', and 'Equips'.
So I started with just damage and added different layers of potential moves. I would basically take the winning strategy from the last comparison type and feed it into the next one, so these were iterative. Going iteratively helped because if I threw in everything at once, it would mean I'd need to run all defensive strategies instead of just focusing on the ones that would stop the previous best strategies.

For Equips, there was an extra level where many comparisons might be run because a character with equips would need to run through each potential equip combination that might be useful and see if it would let them win. Then the other character would run through their equip combinations and see if they could flip it back. There were two levels of equips: Weapons and Other.

I tried to have as little hard-coding as I could get away with, but there was a fair amount by the end because there were some characters where putting together algorithmic strategies didn't work very well.

Generally, I start with determining the base strategy of what damage kills the quickest. I then create lists of strategies by adding in draining, buffs, effects, status...etc. Duellers would start on the first strategy and whoever lost would then add considerations that might impact how they acted. If they exhausted all the possible considerations, then they would move onto the next strategy in their list. If someone hit their last strategy and still lost, then they lost the match. A key check occured to see if a character was about to die at every turn so that they could try and avoid that as well.

There are many other things I could say about the building process and it's many facets, including selective rerunning of matches, analyze match outcomes for tailoring, multiprocessing and a lot more. But this at least gives a solid quick overview.

#Lessons Learned
First and foremost, I overestimated the effects that any secondary feature of damage (or some status) mattered. The number of turns that someone kills (or disables) on average is the most important thing. Even if they have limited shots of Fire or Thunder evadable physical attack, it doesn't matter that much. Most people won't block the element, evade (or evade enough) or have healing or some other strategy to run them out of MP. There are some duellers I massively underranked due to this. I gave Iyona in Brig 2 a 2.25 when she scores a hair above 3.00. There are a lot of examples of this! Granted, this was also impacted by changes in some views that I discuss in the equip changes section.

Second, I think sometimes I was quite poor at determining the importance of durability in both directions. So take FF6. I think I underestimated how big an effect Locke's durability would have, so I put him higher than he should be. And I put Celes too low (good call NEB) because of this but also because a lot of times, it's not her damage that determines how many turns she needs, but rather her status (going back to the first lesson). Of course, since rankings were done at different times, this mattered a lot more in some games than in others.

For durable bosses in lower divisions, I definitely underrated them conceptually (I didn't really give them rankings). Vinsfield was ranked Light and I didn't think that unfair in the past, but he scored low Heavy. Doubling average PC HP and having status resistance can go a long way if you can still 4HKO (well, with my boss changes, more like a 5HKO but above average speed, a 4HKO against magically frail and often a 4HKO against physical fighters).

Also, I underrated "full packages". Granted, there aren't many examples of full packages, but the one that I did a lot of review on early was Tim. Tim is above average speed over time, durable in all ways and has good status resistance and good damage. Not having a flaw was really, really useful, and he almost hit Godlike when I didn't even rank him in Heavy (granted, that also goes back to the first issue as well). It also helped that he was hitting the damage point where it's rare to not 2HKO, which was also a factor.

11

Tournaments / Re: RPGVO 2022 Round 5: Losers' Pools 2 - Dog and Frog, Chameleon and Penguin

« on: September 24, 2022, 02:16:15 AM »

GODLIKE

Ryu (BoF3) vs. Orlandu (FFT)- Yeah, the core of my disallowance of Force Armor thing is just down to money. You have a limited amount of money at BoF3 considering how expensive the endgame equips are. I basically allowed everything else (even if frankly you wouldn't have the money to buy all of it) because all the other equips at least could be justified as a decent choice in game (Best weapons that aren't horrible to get, Best Helmets, Protectors for obvious reasons, Mind Shield for the best defense, Spiked Gauntlet for attack), while Force Armor (at least for Ryu) is a lot of money you need elsewhere for an effect that only very, very rarely comes up after it can be acquired. Ryu does have the Mind Shield to halve the hit rate, but that leaves it at 50% which hits to me (if...you even see if working. Truth be told, the effect is so useless in game that at this point, I'd see an MP Damage attack that can't really be stopped as getting past it anyways).
Lamington (Disgaea) vs. Riou (S2)- I see Lamington as about 2.3 PC HP, so Riou's 1.7 PC HP Forgiver Sign goes a long way, but not long enough.
Sephiroth (FF7) vs. Rudo (Brig:LoR)


HEAVY

Naoto Shirogane (P4) vs Raze (MK2)- Yeah, I see Naoto blocking ID, not damage
Ness (Earthbound) vs. Millenia (G2)- If this was mathed out by others, happy to go with that.
Margulis (XS2) vs. Golbez (FF4:TAY)- Golbez does make this closer because he can equip Fire res, but the ITE physical will be too much


MIDDLE

Squall Leonhart (FF8) vs Lich (FF1)
Koromaru (P3) vs. Greninja (PKMN)
Stocke (RH) vs. Bowser (SMRPG)

LIGHT
Paula (EB) vs. Sten (BoF2)
Natan (SH3) vs. Kain Highwind (FF4)
Genis Sage (ToS) vs. Aika (SoA)
Zell Dincht (FF8) vs. Palmer (FF7)

12

Tournaments / Re: RPGVO 2022 Round 4: Winners' Quarterfinals - Bart Whips a Penguin

« on: September 16, 2022, 01:15:53 PM »

GODLIKE

Rudo (Brig:LoR) vs. Belial (WA4)
Simeon (Octopath) vs. Shania (SH3)- Not close. Shania with two wins in Godlike!
Yuna (FFX) vs. Riou (Suiko2)
Fou Lu (BoF4) vs. Orlandu (FFT)


HEAVY

Golbez (FF4:TAY) vs. Worker 8 (FFT)
Lady Harken (WA:ACF) vs. Lyon (Suiko5)- Strong gut reaction here.
Raze (MK2) vs. Nel Zelpher (SO3)


MIDDLE

Bartholomew Fatima (XG) vs. Empoleon (PKMN)
Bowser (SMRPG) vs. Kazan (Legaia 2)- Haha, Fear is like the 1 status that doesn't exist in Legaia 2 (also, no Charge Heal for me anymore)


LIGHT

Palmer (FF7) vs. Geela (TriStrat)- Geela with two wins!
Aika (SoA) vs. Locke (FF6)
Ryudo (G2) vs. Kain Highwind (FF4)
Guile (CC) vs. Sten (BoF2)- Guile has about 1.3 Mdur while Sten does 1.25 magic damage over 3 turns. Guile certainly 3HKOs to me if not a 2HKO.

13

General Chat / Re: What games are you playing 2022: No to stat bloat since the turn of Millenia

« on: August 23, 2022, 01:31:43 AM »

Bravely Default 2- Played this a while back. Very uneven game and I don't even just mean in the normal class based game of very uneven classes (although that felt worse than normal here). I don't mind the change from TB to ATB speed, but the game was plagued was serious transparency issues. Both speed and damage mults were way too opaque in a way that just feels like it should have been left far in the past. The counter gimmick was annoying when it was on randoms (bosses depended on the individual boss, but other than 1 particular one it was fine).

Challenge kind of dissapates once you have enough MP regen methods going because you can just have a healer revive everyone if needed. There was definitely a long stretch were bosses were just too much of jokes because of this (Adam was finally the one to break this at least a little).

I did enjoy a lot of classes being remixed.

Sad they got rid of the great chained random mechanic from Bravely Second, since otherwise there was too much random slog at times without anything to spice it up (yes, I know this game had a chaining mechanic, but I didn't like it at all).

Very uneven plot. The Chapter 2 story just needed to be totally flushed, but then the Chapter 3 arc was fantastic. Also, how did they have two tree towns in a game where the only time the graphics are ever interesting is in towns and both of them were total letdowns?! Rimedhal and the Russian city at least made up for that. I certainly wish they were able to pull more of that graphical style into dungeons instead of having many rooms of interchangable boredom.

Giant middle finger to the game though for having class passives with negative features that unlock after a certain point. Why would any designer think that hampering a class with a bad second passive would be a good design decision? I was running a Thief with a Monk secondary and the Artist passive to make the Monk BP costing move free, just to get Thief's second passive that also made the move free but also prevented my ability to gain BP through defaulting? Yikes

Final score was a 4/10. The optional multi boss endgame battles brought it back up from a 3. I loved those in BD, so I'm very glad to have seen those brought back. The ending story structure was also cute enough.

Triangle Strategy- On the other hand, this is the first time the team finally fully knocked a game out of the park. Everything was solid. The branching storylines were handled fairly well within the context of often not changing the general contour of the game until the end, there are a ton of fun battles (especially those in the Salt map or the mines), the system is generally fairly well balanced (I do enjoy the hyper focus on just a few skills for every PC) and the BP system was very elegant. 8/10

14

Tournaments / Re: RPGVO 2022 Round 1: Blood in the Pools, and Thieves in Light

« on: August 23, 2022, 01:15:30 AM »

GODLIKE

Rudo (Brig:LoR) vs. Cloud of Darkness (FF3)- Rudo doesn't get to counter to me since no range supremacy.
Belial (WA4) vs. Ryu (BoF3)
Shania (SH3) vs. Lamington (Disgaea)

HEAVY

Naoto Shirogane (P4) vs. Golbez (FF4:TAY)- No idea what Naoto's actual ID rate is, so...
Edge (FF4) vs. Worker 8 (FFT)- My gut was Edge, but maybe not. If I saw Edge having more than 1 Fuuma, this would be easy. W8 2HKOs w/ Crush + Anything. Edge's issue is that he needs to keep Image up or the physical counter kills him and if Edge uses Image, then I think W8 will have at least 1/8 of his HP left when he gets his second turn and knocks out Edge.
Ness (Earthbound) vs. Lady Harken (WA:ACF)- Shield Beta halves physical damage and reflects the other half back at Harken and Maximum Risk is phyisical base damage, so this one seems pretty clear for me.
Ike (FEs) vs. Lyon (Suiko5)

MIDDLE

Ashley Winchester (WA2) vs. Bartholomew Fatima (XG)- Not that super crappy XG build up being useful, but granted at least it also relies on Bart's fantastic evade game
Bowser (SMRPG) vs. Kent (FE7)- Strong gut
Kazan (Legaia 2) vs. Koromaru (P3)- I don't allow Charge Heal anymore, so this seems right.

LIGHT

Thief (FF5) vs. Palmer (FF7)
Paula (EB) vs. Geela (TriStrat)
Natan (SH3) vs. Aika (SoA)- Well, per my own note of "Panic- Doubles SP Costs (Given that Running out of SP causes characters to act irrationally, it's not unreasonable for this to cover Confuse)"...sure.
Pikachu (PKMN) vs. Locke (FF6)- Oof yeah, Wing Edge 2HKO

15

Tournaments / Re: RPGVO 2022 Nomination Thread

« on: August 20, 2022, 06:30:24 PM »

Godlike
Orlandu (FFT)
Elc (ATL 2)
Riou (S2)
T260G (Saga)
Kefka (FF 6)
Fou Lu (BoF 4)

Heavy
Tosh (ATL 2)
Shadow (FF 6)
Millenia (Grandia 2)
Raze (MK 2)
Nel (SO 3)
Golbez (FF4:TAY)

Middle
White Rose (Saga)
Warlock (S4)
Crono (CT)
Bart (XG)
Hellion (S1)
Ophilia (OT)

Light
Locke (FF 6)
Rico (XG)
Meg (S2)
Vincent (S2)
Sten (BoF 2)
Ricardo (SH 3)

16

RPGDL Discussion / Re: Division Rankings rambling.

« on: August 08, 2022, 02:52:58 AM »

Serenoa- 107% HP, 99% Speed, 55% Damage Twice, 47.6% Damage with 0.5 Turn Delay, Semi Weak Counters. A straightforward Middle, not super impressive. 3.25

Roland- 97% HP, 103% Speed, 105% Damage on Turn 2 (76% being ITD and coming at once). Not all that different from Serenoa, but speed and ITD is an edge. 3.35

Frederica- 92% HP but bad defense, 95% Speed. Solid 2HKO (76%) although not quite a level where many OHKOs will be grabbed. I think I've overrated the effect of elemental resistance in the past. 2.9

Benedict- Fast and physically durable, but 5HKOs sadly. 2.35

Hughette- Relatively average durability, 99% Speed. 3HKOs and can do that while inflicting an effective Blind or Don't Move. Certainly some kind of Middle. Say 3.35

Geela- 10HKOs on average. Sure, infinite healing that can sometimes heal more than 50% HP but that damage stings. Miraculous Light may spoil a few times, I think this is better than Benedict, so...2.5?

Anna- One of the two clear Heavies. 118% Speed, 2HKOs (114.4% over two turns, although a bit more spoilable by evade due to needing to hit 4 times), Sleep is turn 1 to me and has has use as might Take Cover. 3.95

Erador- 110% HP, Decent Physical Defense, horrible Mdef (but Fury helps cover that), 91% Speed. ~35% Damage with mage spoiling. I think that gets him into Middle and Desperate Defense nets him a few more wins too. 3.25

Corentin- Same basic stats as Frederica, but his 71% damage move also inflicts Silence, making him a Middle to me I think. 3.15

Rudolph- A tad slow and undurable, but 54% Damage or 96% damage over two turns where the first one inflicts Sleep. That's a nice boon  that makes him a solid Middle to me. 3.5

Narve- Good in game mage with DL issues. 66% Damage that has turn 2 Paralysis to me and that's about it (other than having a physical that registers on the damage curve; still not good) and a better defensive profile. Still a decent Light. 2.8

Hossabara- Pretty average all around. A tad slow, but damage is a little above average. Desperate Defense is nice though and I think makes her borderline. 3

Julio- 107% HP, 99% Speed, 3HKOs of both types (34.5% Magic, ~42.7% Physical) plus TP Damage (for whatever that is worth. I'd see it do a limit versus FF 7, Legend of Heroes, VP...etc). 3.15

Lionel- 113% HP, 91% Speed, 4HKOs, but status! Turn 1 Fury for Healers/Mages, Turn 1 Sleep or Silence (Sleep is the one he wants. Fury already gets Mages, and Sleep means Brute Force will hit and will likely net him a 3HKO). Gut is Middle. 3.2

Piccolletta- 103% Speed, 98% HP, 5HKO damage. Everything rides on Decoy. I think I see Decoy working on ST damage if the Decoy has less durability than Piccoletta. Piccoletta will often need to take at least 2 hits in Light to be weaker than the Decoy, which has horrible stats. A weird Light, but not necessarily bad. Evade helps. 2.8

Ezana- 65.6% Lightning magic with turn 1 Paralysis. 3.4

Medina- Well, I allow some level of (bad) items. I'm just giving her the same score as Benedict. 2.35

Archibald- 90% HP, 91% Speed, 65% ITD damage though! 3.4

Milo- 98% HP, 107% Speed, 23.7% Physical Damage and 35% Magic Damage with a minor Poison. Turn 2 Evasion is nice as is turn 1 Charm. Still not an impressive Middle, but say 3.3

Groma- 86% HP, but solid defenses and 32% Evade and 110% Speed. 113% Damage total on turn 2, turn 1 Fury for Mages/Healers, Immobilize may have some use versus SR fighters. I feel like she just is slightly over the border for Heavy. 3.8

Flanagan- 119% HP, 95% Speed, about 8% Auto-Regen. Solid Pdef, bad Mdef but another fighter where turn 1 Fury helps there. 33.5% Damage. Middle. 3.25

Maxwell- 104% HP, 110% Speed, OPB Auto Life and 51.5% Damage. 4

Cordelia- Weird. Can use Above and Beyond every other turn against ST fighters, so if you don't 2HKO her you may have issues even with some anti healer stuff. 2.65? Could be misdiagnosing.

Trish- 107% Speed, 48% Fire damage that can be used twice off the bat, 33.5% Damage Otherwise or 31% consistent ITE. I think she scrapes into low Middle. 3.05

Travis- 110% HP, 95% Speed, 56% Damage. 3.15

Quahaug- 93% HP, 118% Speed, bad Defense, weird as hell. One key option:

Attack (he has to since In Due Course needs 4 procs + attack to kill)->Take hit->Stop Time->In Due Course->Enemy is stopped takes damage->in Due Course->Enemy is stopped, takes damage, stop is lifted->In Due Course->Take 2nd hit, in Due Course Procs->In Due course->Take 3rd hit, in Due Course Procs

So basically still needs to be able to take 3 hits to win, which is quite unlikely in Light someone only needs about 20% physical damage ot accomplish that. Granted, Quahaug needs effectively 5 turns to kill and might get a double...which granted just nets him 20% healing, but lets him survive a 25% Phys Damage 3HKO. So he's a kind of fast 4HKOer or something, so technically better than Medina/Benedict...edit: minus his defense making him worse I think. 2.3

Thalas- 1.49 PC HP, decent defenses, 1.111% Turn 1 Speed, 144% After, 36.3% Phys Damage, 38.8% Wind Damage (But needs 4 turns to use three times). Speed and durability gets him into low Heavy. 3.9

Erika- Basically a slightly worse Thalas with a different element. 3.85

Avlora- 1.4 PC HP, 159% long term speed, Good defenses, 57.7% Damage that goes to 75% below 50% HP. Desperate Defense definitely gets her into Godlike. 4.65

Patriette- 1.21 PC HP, 148% Long Term Speed, Nasty Blind against physical fighters (although it leaves him 4HKOing). Edged Arrow is an option, but a costly one. That said, speed is a great DL stat and I can see him at 3.8

Gustadolph- 1.34 PC HP, 148% Long Term Speed, 38% Damage, 22.7% w/ very accurate Silence or 42.4% Ice Magic (albeit one he can use only once every 3 turns). A little better than his siblings, although not too much. 3.95

Kamsell- Sad HP combined with a 3HKO keeps in Light no matter the speed. 2.8

Exharme- 1.3 PC HP, 156% Long Term Speed, 40% damage that makes him pdur a little better. Charm isn't accurate at base to help at 3 TP. 3.6

Lyla- 1.33 PC HP, 148% Long Term Speed. Weird. 42% Magic, but needs 4 turns to use three times with no free damage option. However, she also delays enemies 1 turn using that and slows them a little, so it's more like 3 turns to kill average. Stop is cute, but with the TP cost I don't see it factoring in much. Some healer busting strategies. 3.5

Idore- Some scaling could make him Bluelike, but 112.9% Turn 1 Speed and 75% HP doesn't get him there for me. 4.8. His shield clearly makes him Godlike, meaning you either need to double act or you need to be faster and OHKO him or faster than him long term (no really happening minus a great Haste spell) and outslug. 55% Damage at Worst with spikes of 75.9% (albeit all magical).

17

Unranked Games / Re: Triangle Strategy

« on: August 07, 2022, 10:49:46 PM »

Bosses
1. Taken on two Second Playthrough
2. Most of the bosses have about the same support credit to me. Basically, if a boss and their allies number approximately the same as the PCs facing them when they are actually engaging, I take them against 2 PCs (for the ability to focus). The exceptions are Kamsell and Idore, who can often be faced without any allies around them or minimal numbers.
3. Their speed is often less turn 1. I initially thought to say half the effect, but upon more reflection 1/4 the effect made sense since often you'll be sniping in a few attacks before engaging (and many of them had turn 1 speeds less than Anna, so 1/2 also felt wrong there). Also taking them against 27 speed to account for boosters
4. Damage taken against is a little rough, but accurate enough. It's mostly DL damage with a little boost for various extra equips or effects like insta-turns.

Thalas, Wind Caster
HP: 1037
Str: 63
Pdef: 62.......Cuts by ~20 (14.8%)
Mag: 63
Mdef: 57.....Cuts by ~24 (17.8%)
Luck: 28
Acc: 55.......(~94% base against Average Eva from Side; 91.1% average hit rate)
Speed: 39....(111.1% Turn 1, 144.4% After)
Eva: 52.......(4.9% Evade on Average)
Max TP: 4
Resists Wind 30%, 30% Weak to Lightning
Immune to Poison, Silence, Fury, Charm, ID, ~55% Resistance to Others

Faces: 446 HP
Damage Faced: ~140
Support Credit: Standard support credit = 1.49 PC HP

Tome of the Peafowl: 162 Physical Damage
Good Grief: Increases Ally Str
Flame Ward (1 TP): Increasese Fire Resistance
Windstorm (2 TP): 173 Wind Magic
Fierce Wind (2 TP): 132 AoE Wind Magic

Erika, Bomber
HP: 1043
Str: 64
Pdef: 56.......Cuts by 8 (5.9%)
Mag: 59
Mdef: 56.....Cuts by 22 (16.3%)
Luck: 39
Acc: 51........(~104% base against Average from Side; 91.8% Average Hit Rate)
Speed: 37....(109.2% Turn 1, 137% After)
Eva: 53.......(5.8% Evade on Average)
Max TP: 4
Resists Fire 30%, 30% Weak to Ice
Immune to Paralysis, Silence, Blind, Charm, Death, ~55% Resistance to Others

Faces: 446 HP
Damage Faced: ~135
Support Credit: Standard support credit = 1.49 PC HP

Fang of the Serpent: 166 Phys Damage
You're Welcome: Ally Magic Up
Oil: Creates Oil Tiles (when fire is added, does 50 damage at start of turn)
Playing with Fire (2 TP): 165 Fire Magic

Avlora, Dark General
HP: 1017
Str: 67
Pdef: 74......Cuts by 42 (30%)
Mag: 40
Mdef: 63.....Cuts by 36 (25.7%)
Luck: 52
Acc: 61.......(124% base against Average from Side, 97% Average Hit Rate)
Speed: 43....(114.8% Turn 1, 159.2% After)
Eva: 59.......(12% Evade on Average)
Max TP: 5
Status Immune

Faces: 457 HP
Damage Faced: ~145
Support Credit: Standard support credit = 1.4 PC HP

Passives:
Desperate Strike: Increase Damage 30% under 50% HP
Desperate Defense: Halves Damage taken below 50% HP

Berserker: 176 Physical Damage
Risky Manuever: 264 Physical Damage, Takes 5% MHP Damage
No Escape (2 TP): 140 SR/MR Linear Damage
Bloody Cross (4 TP): 210 Physical Damage in Large Cross around Avlora

Patriette, Marksman
HP: 907
Str: 57
Pdef: 61......Cuts by 14 (9.7%)
Mag: 56
Mdef: 56.....Cuts by 20 (13.8%)
Luck: 8
Acc: 58.......(~106% Base against Average Eva from Side, 92.5% Average Hit Rate)
Speed: 40....(112% Turn 1, 148.1% After)
Eva: 55.......(5.8% Evade on Average)
Max TP: 4
Immune to Poison, Silence, Fury, Charm, ID, ~55% Resistance to Others

Faces: 468 HP
Damage Faced: ~150
Support Credit: Fairly standard of even engagement numbers means standard 2 PC scaling for 1.21 PC HP

Shadow Fox Bow: 134 LR Damage
Blinding Arrow (2 TP): 140 LR Damage + 90% Blind for 2 Turns
Edged Arrow (3 TP): 216 LR ITD Damage

Gustadolph, Frostruler
HP: 1033
Str: 70
Pdef: 75......Cuts by 40 (25.8%)
Mag: 65
Mdef: 75.....Cuts by 56 (36.1%)
Luck: 58
Acc: 69.......(136% Base against Average from Side, 98.6% average hit rate)
Speed: 40....(112% Turn 1, 148.1% After)
Eva: 66........(20% Evade on Average)
Max TP: 5
30% Ice Resistance, 30% Weak to Ice
Immune to Sleep, Silence, Fury, Charm, ID, 50% Resistance Others

Faces: 479 HP
Damage Faced: 155
Support Credit: Standard support credit = 1.34 PC HP.

Blade of Mammon: 182 Physical Damage
Icy Edge (2 TP): 109 AoE Physical Damage + 90% Silence
Blizzard (3 TP): 203 Ice Magic

Kamsell, Master Lancer
HP: 1219
Str: 61
Pdef: 64.......Cuts by 18 (11.6%)
Mag: 43
Mdef: 58......Cuts by 22 (14.2%)
Luck: 61
Acc: 57.......(112% against Average Eva from Side, 94.4% Average Hit Rate)
Speed: 40....(112% Turn 1, 148.1% After)
Eva: 60.......(10.6% Evade on Average)
Max TP: 5
Absorbs Thunder
Immune to Paralysis, Silence, Blind, Charm, Death, ~50% Resistance to Others

Faces: 479 HP
Damage Faced: 155
Support Credit: Kamsell will wait for most of his allies to be wiped out before engaging. He has the worst effective support credit. I'd say 5 PCs at once. I see him around 62.9% PC HP

Passives
Physical Counter: 100% Mighty Lance counter vs SR

Mighty Lance: 101 Physical Damage
Unstoppable Spear (2 TP): 170 ITD Physical Damage
Landing Impact (4 TP): 202 AoE Physical Damage

Exharme, Swordmaster
HP: 1042
Str: 64
Pdef: 60........Cuts by 10 (6.3%)
Mag: 41
Mdef: 57......Cuts by 20 (12.6%)
Luck: 54
Acc: 61........(120% Base against Average Eva from Side, 96.3% average against all PCs from front)
Speed: 42....(113.9% Turn 1, 155.6% After)
Eva: 59........(9.3% Evade on Average)
Max TP: 4
Immune to Immobilize, Blind, Fury, Charm, ID, ~50% Resistance to Others

Faces: 490 HP
Damage Faced: ~160
Support Credit: Exharme has standard support credit, leading to the standard 2 Pcs taken for 1.3 PC HP

Green Viper: 158 Physical Damage
Rouse Troops (1 TP): Str up 3 and 1 TP for all allies (including self)
Sandstorm (2 TP): 197 Physical Damage + Str Down 6 and Def Down 8 for 3 turns (Increases his damage ~16-20 and he takes around 30 less physical damage or 20%)
Charisma (3 TP): 60% AoE Charm for 2 Turns

Lyla, Great Caster
HP: 1060
Str: 23
Pdef: 44....Takes extra 22 (13.8%)
Mag: 56
Mdef: 61....Cuts by 28 (17.5%)
Luck: 50
Acc: 65
Speed: 40....(112% Turn 1, 148.1% After)
Eva: 60....(10.6% Evade on Average)
Max TP: 5
Immune to Poison, Silence, Fury, Charm, ID, ~50% Resistance to Others

Faces: 490 HP
Damage Faced: 160
Support Credit: Fairly standard, so 2 PCs for 1.33 PC HP

Silver Scepter: 1! Damage
Slow (2 TP): 207 Magic Damage + Speed Down -6 for 2 turns (~25% decrease) + 0.5 Turn Delay
Delaying Casting (2 TP): 50% MHP Damage that kicks in right after target takes 2 turns
Temporal Suspension (3 TP): 100% Stop for 2 turns; ignores status immunity

Idore, Demigod
HP: 1202
Str: 28
Pdef: 61.......Cuts by 12 (7.5%)
Mag: 66
Mdef: 70......Cuts by 46 (28.8%)
Luck: 72
Acc: 65
Speed: 41....(112.9% Turn 1, 151.8% After)
Eva: 60.......(10.6% Evade on Average)
Max TP: 5
Status Immune

Faces: 490 HP
Damage Faced: 160
Support Notes: Idore will basically stay in 1 place and allow you to essentially clear the map before going after him. I would give him very little support credit and would see 4 PCs attacking him at once, for about 0.75 PC HP (could also be 5, but I think he's at least getting a little more cover than Kamsell).

Passives:
Acts Twice
Gains 2 TP instead of 1
At end of each turn, places a shield that nulls a single attack

Drain Life: 135 Magic Damage + Steal 1 TP
Issue Orders (1 TP): Grant 1 TP to ally, increases str by 3 and gives them immediate turn
Bolt of Judgement (3 TP): 237 Lightning Damage + Paralysis (likely either 30% or 60%)
Puppet Master (3 TP): Summon a Hierophant; multiple can be out

"The" Hierophant
HP: 853
Str: 29
Pdef: 57
Mag: 67
Mdef: 57
Luck: 34
Acc: 38
Speed: 38....(120.3% Turn 1, 140.7% After)
Eva: 55
Max TP: 4
Status Immune

Faces: 490 HP

Passives
Damage up with TP Up (not really tested but factored into the below damages to some degree)

Goddess Staff: ~30 Physical Damage
Charge TP: Gain 1 TP
Magic Bullet: ~223 Magic Damage at 3 TP
Heed Me (3 TP): 60% Charm
Divine Punishment (4 TP): ~340 Magic Damage to those with 3+ TP

18

Unranked Games / Re: Triangle Strategy

« on: August 07, 2022, 10:49:25 PM »

Averages
Damage
1. Frederica- 287 (Scorch x 3) <193.3 w/o additional credit for KO TP+)
2. Corentin- 233 (Icy Breath, Frosty Fetters x 2)
3. Arcihbald- 218 (Edged Arrow x 2, Bow of Serenity III)
4. Travis- 207.3 (Backward Toss x 2, Mug)
5. Anna- 206 (Fairy Dagger x 2, Fairy Dagger + Deadly Blaze, Fairy Dagger x 2)
6. Serenoa- 197.7 (Hawk Dive x 2, Delaying Strike)
7. Maxwell- 194 (Triple Thurst x 3)
8. Groma- 193 (Fists of Mercy, Skyward Fist, Fists of Mercy)
9. Roland- 188 (Sovereign's Lance of Justice, Four Dragons, Double Thrust)
10. Ezana- 186.3 (Rite of Rain, Rite of Lightning xv2)
11. Narve- 185 (Spark x 2, Silver Birch Rod)
12. Hossabara- 182.5 (Plover's Staff, Pushback x 2)
13. Rudolph- 179 (Straight Shot x 2, Demon Slayer's Bow)
14. Hughette- 173 (Serpent Slayer, Shooting Star, Serpent Slayer)
15. Trish- 163.3 (Flaming Arrow x 2, Trickster's Shortbow)
16. Julio- 160.7 (Not on my Watch x 2, Curved Longsword)
17. Avlora- 159 (Berserker III x 3)
18. Giovanna- 140.3 (Pickaxe of Eternity x 2, Gaia Roar)
19. Erador- 136.7 (Ram Foe x 2, Lion's Shield)
20. Milo- 133 (Green Mist x 2)
21. Flanagan- 126 (Aerial Assualt x 3)
22. Jens- 116.7 (Slumber Strike x 2, Hammer of Creation)
23. Lionel- 111 (Brute Force x 2, Golden Whip)
24. Decimal- 97 (Kaleidoscope x 3)
25. Benedict- 91 (Butterfly Rod x 3)
26. Medina- 84 (Gold Knife x 3)
27. Piccoletta- 78 (Ball Toss x 3)
28. Geela- 40 (Sage's Rod)
28. Cordelia- 40 (Sacred Lotus Rod x 3)
30. Quahaug- 6 (Space-Time Scepter x 3)
Average: 150.4 (Kill Point: 376) <147.2/367.5 w/o KO TP+ for Frederica>

HP
1. Flanagan: 582....119.3%
2. Lionel: 553....113.3%
3. Erador: 538....110.2%
4. Jens: 536....109.8%
5. Travis: 535....109.6%
6. Serenoa: 521....106.8%
6. Avlora: 521....106.8%
6. Julio: 521....106.8%
9. Maxwell: 506....103.7%
10. Hossabara: 502....102.9%
11. Benedict: 500....102.5%
12. Narve: 498....102.0%
13. Anna: 490....100.4%
14. Trish: 487....99.8%
14. Hughette: 487....99.8%
16. Giovanna: 485....99.4%
17. Rudolph: 480....98.4%
17. Milo: 480....98.4%
19. Piccoletta: 476....97.5%
20. Roland: 473....96.9%
21. Decimal: 467....95.7%
22. Ezana: 462....94.7%
23. Medina: 460....94.3%
24. Quahaug: 455....93.2%
25. Frederica: 450....92.2%
25. Corentin: 450....92.2%
25. Geela: 450....92.2%
28. Archibald: 441....90.4%
29. Groma: 420....86.1%
30. Cordelia: 415....85.0%
Average: 488.03

Speed
1. Anna: 31....118.0%
1. Quahaug: 31....118.0%
3. Medina: 29....110.4%
3. Maxwell: 29....110.4%
3. Groma: 29....110.4%
6. Trish: 28....106.6%
6. Benedict: 28....106.6%
6. Milo: 28....106.6%
9. Roland: 27....102.8%
9. Piccoletta: 27....102.8%
11. Serenoa: 26....99.0%
11. Julio: 26....99.0%
11. Rudolph: 26....99.0%
11. Hossabara: 26....99.0%
11. Avlora: 26....99.0%
11. Hughette: 26....99.0%
17. Cordelia: 25....95.2%
17. Decimal: 25....95.2%
17. Flanagan: 25....95.2%
17. Travis: 25....95.2%
17. Ezana: 25....95.2%
17. Narve: 25....95.2%
17. Corentin: 25....95.2%
17. Geela: 25....95.2%
17. Frederica: 25....95.2%
26. Archibald: 24....91.4%
26. Lionel: 24....91.4%
26. Giovanna: 24....91.4%
26. Erador: 24....91.4%
26. Jens: 24....91.4%
Average: 26.27

Pdef
1. Erador: 74....-62.3 Damage
2. Flanagan: 67....-44.8 Damage
3. Benedict: 64....-37.3 Damage
3. Groma: 64....-37.3 Damage
5. Jens: 59....-24.8 Damage
6. Lionel: 58....-22.3 Damage
6. Avlora: 58....-22.3 Damage
8. Decimal: 56....-17.3 Damage
9. Giovanna: 55....-14.8 Damage
10. Travis: 52....-7.3 Damage
10. Anna: 52....-7.3 Damage
12. Milo: 51....-4.8 Damage
12. Maxwell: 51....-4.8 Damage
14. Medina: 50....-2.3 Damage
14. Hughette: 50....-2.3 Damage
14. Serenoa: 50....-2.3 Damage
14. Julio: 50....-2.3 Damage
18. Rudolph: 49....0.2 Damage
18. Trish: 49....0.2 Damage
20. Roland: 48....2.7 Damage
20. Hossabara: 48....2.7 Damage
22. Archibald: 47....5.2 Damage
23. Piccoletta: 45....10.2 Damage
24. Cordelia: 43....15.2 Damage
25. Geela: 40....22.7 Damage
26. Narve: 33....40.2 Damage
27. Ezana: 32....42.7 Damage
28. Quahaug: 28....52.7 Damage
29. Frederica: 25....60.2 Damage
30. Corentin: 24....62.7 Damage
Average: 49.07

Mdef
1. Milo: 67....-49.4 Damage
2. Giovanna: 63....-39.4 Damage
3. Frederica: 59....-29.4 Damage
4. Corentin: 58....-26.9 Damage
4. Quahaug: 58....-26.9 Damage
6. Narve: 57....-24.4 Damage
7. Decimal: 56....-21.9 Damage
7. Ezana: 56....-21.9 Damage
9. Piccoletta: 55....-19.4 Damage
9. Geela: 55....-19.4 Damage
11. Medina: 54....-16.9 Damage
12. Groma: 53....-14.4 Damage
13. Serenoa: 50....-6.9 Damage
14. Maxwell: 49....-4.4 Damage
14. Julio: 49....-4.4 Damage
16. Cordelia: 48....-1.9 Damage
17. Benedict: 47....0.6 Damage
17. Avlora: 47....0.6 Damage
19. Roland: 46....3.1 Damage
20. Rudolph: 44....8.1 Damage
21. Anna: 43....10.6 Damage
22. Trish: 42....13.1 Damage
22. Travis: 42....13.1 Damage
22. Archibald: 42....13.1 Damage
25. Lionel: 41....15.6 Damage
25. Hughette: 41....15.6 Damage
27. Hossabara: 40....18.1 Damage
28. Jens: 22....63.1 Damage
29. Erador: 21....65.6 Damage
30. Flanagan: 12....88.1 Damage
Average: 47.23

Eva
1. Groma: 76....35.6% Raw Evasion
2. Milo: 75....33.6% Raw Evasion
3. Piccoletta: 74....31.6% Raw Evasion
4. Anna: 72....27.6% Raw Evasion
5. Jens: 60....6.5% Raw Evasion
6. Julio: 57....3.3% Raw Evasion
6. Avlora: 57....3.3% Raw Evasion
6. Maxwell: 57....3.3% Raw Evasion
6. Serenoa: 57....3.3% Raw Evasion
10. Flanagan: 56....2.5% Raw Evasion
10. Erador: 56....2.5% Raw Evasion
10. Roland: 56....2.5% Raw Evasion
13. Hossabara: 52....0.5% Raw Evasion
14. Giovanna: 51....0.3% Raw Evasion
15. Lionel: 48....0.0% Raw Evasion
16. Travis: 47....0.0% Raw Evasion
16. Trish: 47....0.0% Raw Evasion
18. Hughette: 46....0.0% Raw Evasion
18. Rudolph: 46....0.0% Raw Evasion
20. Archibald: 45....0.0% Raw Evasion
21. Narve: 43....0.0% Raw Evasion
21. Cordelia: 43....0.0% Raw Evasion
21. Geela: 43....0.0% Raw Evasion
24. Medina: 42....0.0% Raw Evasion
25. Decimal: 40....0.0% Raw Evasion
26. Quahaug: 39....0.0% Raw Evasion
26. Corentin: 39....0.0% Raw Evasion
28. Ezana: 38....0.0% Raw Evasion
28. Frederica: 38....0.0% Raw Evasion
30. Benedict: 27....0.0% Raw Evasion
Average: 50.9

Str
1. Serenoa: 56
1. Roland: 56
1. Avlora: 56
1. Maxwell: 56
1. Travis: 56
6. Hossabara: 55
7. Rudolph: 54
7. Anna: 54
7. Groma: 54
10. Archibald: 53
11. Julio: 52
12. Hughette: 51
13. Trish: 50
14. Erador: 49
15. Decimal: 48
16. Milo: 44
16. Flanagan: 44
18. Jens: 43
18. Lionel: 43
18. Benedict: 43
21. Giovanna: 41
21. Medina: 41
23. Piccoletta: 39
24. Narve: 36
25. Geela: 32
26. Cordelia: 31
27. Corentin: 26
28. Quahaug: 21
28. Frederica: 21
30. Ezana: 18
Average: 44.1

Mag
1. Cordelia: 66
2. Geela: 63
3. Frederica: 62
4. Ezana: 59
4. Corentin: 59
6. Quahaug: 58
7. Milo: 55
7. Narve: 55
9. Giovanna: 51
10. Decimal: 48
11. Piccoletta: 46
12. Maxwell: 39
12. Roland: 39
12. Serenoa: 39
12. Julio: 39
12. Rudolph: 39
12. Hughette: 39
12. Hossabara: 39
19. Avlora: 37
19. Medina: 37
21. Archibald: 27
22. Trish: 18
22. Travis: 18
24. Groma: 14
24. Anna: 14
26. Flanagan: 12
26. Lionel: 12
26. Erador: 12
26. Benedict: 12
26. Jens: 12
Average: 37.33

Acc
1. Decimal: 72
2. Archibald: 70
3. Groma: 68
4. Maxwell: 64
5. Serenoa: 63
6. Giovanna: 62
7. Anna: 61
8. Julio: 60
8. Avlora: 60
10. Trish: 58
10. Travis: 58
12. Hossabara: 57
12. Erador: 57
12. Flanagan: 57
12. Jens: 57
16. Hughette: 55
16. Benedict: 55
18. Roland: 54
19. Rudolph: 53
19. Lionel: 53
21. Milo: 52
22. Piccoletta: 49
22. Narve: 49
24. Medina: 48
24. Geela: 48
24. Cordelia: 48
27. Ezana: 32
27. Corentin: 32
27. Quahaug: 32
27. Frederica: 32
Average: 53.87

19

Unranked Games / Triangle Strategy

« on: August 07, 2022, 10:48:57 PM »

1. Levels
I took this at level 50 at the end of a 2nd game playthrough Golden Path. This was strategic to make this much easier and is not necessarily an endorsement that this should be the ideal DL consideration (granted, the game is built around multiple playthroughs). It does certainly help answer the tier 3 promotion question.

Also, I only allowed each character each tier 3 weapon effect. These are rather costly even at the end of a second playthrough especially with the Golden Path consideration of all available P.C.s getting use at endgame (Each character will end up using 4 of the Superior items to clear all their tier 2 effects and one tier 3).

2. TP
TP is Triangle Strategy's resource. Every character (ally and enemy) starts with 3 TP and naturally gains 1 per turn (with a few rare exceptions).

3. Enemy Stats
I took the stats from the last 6 maps of the Golden Route. I gave bosses stats a little more emphasis, although the overal effect was minor.
Defense- 55
Magic Defense- 47
Acc- Removed Battlemages

4. Formulas
Basic Attack Formula is (4x Str + 5 + Extra Effect from Weapons – 2x Def) * Mult. Anna, Roland and Maxwell have different formulas with lesser mults on Str (Anna 2x, Roland/Maxwell 3x), but check less defense.

Magic likely uses a similar formula, but with no guaranteed 1x mult to test as a base.

Each Point of Acc and Eva increases chances by 2%
Average Mult Taken for Defense/Magic Defense is 2.5

Speed is supposedly linear (fits well enough). Turn 1 speed is a set turn order that is very similar to the actual speeds (once all weapon skill upgrades are factored in), at least on the PC side. For sanity sake, I'm just using turn 2 speed as speed since figuring out the exact turn 1 speed for 30 characters when it's already so close to the turn 2 speed didn't make sense.

Crit Rates might be (Attacker Luck – Target Luck) / 2 and Crits are 1.3x damage

5. Front/Back/Side
For acc/eva, I took a basket of front, back and side to make the final %. I also gave every PC a base 25% crit rate to account for back attacks and gave a prorated 25% to any other effects related to back or front.

6. Bonus to Moves that can have a Follow-up Attack
In Triangle Strategy, certain moves will have an ally do a follow up basic attack at half damage if they are adjacent. In order to account for this advantage, I included a bonus of 10 damage. All attacks minus long range magic got this bonus.

7. Status
Poison- 30 Damage at Beginning of Turn; wears off with time
Sleep- Don't Move/Act; wears off with time or any physical damage taken
Immobilize- Don't Move; wears off with time
Paralyze- Don't Move/Act; wears off with time
Charm- Switches flag on with side the target is on; charmed character can attack former allies (with techs as well) or can buff or heal new allies. Wears off with time or 25% chance of wearing off when taking direct damage.
Fury- Use basic physicals against the person who inflicted the status; wears off with time
Silence- Target can't use physical techs or magic. It is worth noting that shutting off physical techs in this game does little to stop a physical fighter from mostly maximizing damage as tech mults are around 1.25x at best.
Stop- Don't Move/Act; wears off with time

As per normal, any status hit rates listed in <> are my numbers using my proration/addition formulation. The first number is the hit rate with basic immunity/resistance (which is very low in this game as all non boss enemies have no resistance other than the level check) and the second is with all additions and prorations

8. Range and Line of Sight
I'm noting 2 Range as MR, 3+ range as LR. Sometimes I will note SR/MR or something similar. This is technically a MR move, but might have comparative issues of what range you might actually get to use it at.

LoS stands for Line of Sights; Moves that are line of sight are more limited in game in that there are a good handful of times that a character is prevented from targetting an enemy even if they are in range. What you do with this (if anything) is up to you. I personally would probably see an accuracy penalty of some sort (worse for MR than LR), but I didn't factor that in at all (minus in my own status accuracy numbers)

9. Delay
This is a bit hard to get an exact number, but I'm generally estimating that delay moves are about 0.5 turn delay.

10. Buff Duration and Effectiviness
Buff Durations listed do not include the casting turn (I would include that by grossing the duration up by 1, but this is how the game lists it). Buffs/Status wear off after an action.

Stat Ups and Downs are pretty paltry. There are some I might not list just because the effects at endgame are sad as they are set +/- and not percentage alterations.

11. Averages up Top
HP: 488
Def: 49.2
Mdef: 47.2
Speed: 26.27
Damage: Average: 147.2 (150.4 if you give Frederica credit to use 2 TP move 3 times)
-->2.5 Kill Point: 367.5 (376)

SERENOA
HP: 521.....106.8%
Str: 56
Pdef: 50....Cuts by 2.3 (1.2%)
Mag: 39
Mdef: 50....Cuts by 6.9 (3.5%)
Luck: 71....42.2% Crit Rate
Acc: 63
Spd: 26.....99.0%
Eva: 57.....-2.0% Relative (3.3% Raw)

Passives
Counter Stance: 75% Chance ½ Basic Counter against SR

Moves
Sword of Libra: 166 SR Phys Damage (149 Base Damage, 99.2% hit rate)
Delaying Strike+ (1 TP): 179 SR Phys Damage, 0.5 Turn Delay (160 Base Damage, 99.7% hit rate)
Hawk Dive (2 TP): 207 MR Phys Damage (190 Base Damage, 96.9% hit rate)
Sweeping Slash (2 TP): 142 SR/MR AoE Phys Damage (127 Base Damage, 99.7% hit rate)

ROLAND
HP: 473.....96.9%
Str: 56
Pdef: 48....Takes extra -2.7 (1.4%)
Mag: 39
Mdef: 46....Takes extra -3.1 (1.6%)
Luck: 42....31.4% Crit Rate
Acc: 54
Spd: 27.....102.8%
Eva: 56.....-2.9% Relative (2.5% Raw)

Passives
Knight's Bane: 30% Weak to Spears
Critical Damage Up: Crits do 50% more damage than normal attacks
Opportune Attack: Does a half damage basic attack against a single enemy if moving 5+ squares

Moves
Sovereign's Lance of Justice: 112 SR Phys Damage (104 Base Damage, 93.5% hit rate)
Double Thrust (1 TP): 167 SR Phys Damage (151 Base Damage, 95.8% hit rate)
Rush (3 TP): 146 MR/LR Linear Phys Damage (132 Base Damage, 95.8% hit rate)
Pushback (3 TP): 157 SR Phys Damage, Knockback (142 Base Damage, 95.8% hit rate)
Flash of Steel (3 TP): 149 LR Linear Phys Damage (138 Base Damage, 93.5% hit rate)
Four Dragons (4 TP): 285 SR Phys Damage (284 Base Damage, 87.0% hit rate)

FREDERICA
HP: 450.....92.2%
Str: 21
Pdef: 25....Takes extra -60.2 (30.8%)
Mag: 62
Mdef: 59....Cuts by 29.4 (15.1%)
Luck: 18....25% Base Crit Rate
Acc: 32
Spd: 25.....95.2%
Eva: 38.....-5.5% Relative (0.0% Raw)

Passives
Clear Skies, Fire Damage Up: Increase Fire damage 15% under Clear Skies (Taken at 10% since it's on about 2/3 of maps)
K.O. TP+: Gain 1 TP when killing any enemies
Blessing of Fire: 30% Fire Resistance, 30% Ice Weakness

Moves
Tome of Inferno: 6 SR Phys Damage (11 Base Damage, 55.6% hit rate)
Scorch (2 TP): 193 LR AoE Magic Fire Damage
Blazing Chains+ (2 TP): 287 LR Magic Fire Damage
Pillars of Fire (3 TP): 231 LR Linear Magic Fire Damage
Flame Shield (1 TP): Nulls Fire and Gains SR 17.1% MHP Damage Counter for next 2 Actions
Fire Eater (2 TP): Absorbs Fire Damage for next 3 turns

BENEDICT
HP: 500.....102.5%
Str: 43
Pdef: 64....Cuts by 37.3 (19.1%)
Mag: 12
Mdef: 47....Takes extra -0.6 (0.3%)
Luck: 60....38.1% Crit Rate
Acc: 55
Spd: 28.....106.6%
Eva: 27.....-5.5% Relative (0.0% Raw)

Passives
Initial TP+: Start with 4 TP
Remain Calm: Immune to Silence, Fury and Charm

Moves
Butterfly Rod: 91 SR Phys Damage (87 Base Damage, 94.5% hit rate)
Raging Beast (2 TP): Raise Attack and Magic by 4 for next 3 turns (Increases physical damage by ~18.3%)
Bulwark (1 TP): Raise Pdef and Mdef by 5 for next 3 turns (Cuts damage by ~12 compared to his base or 6.1% of average)
Now...! (3 TP): Move an ally's turn right after Benedict's action
Twofold Turn (3 TP): Allows target to doubleact their next turn
Dragon Shield (4 TP): Invincibility to damage from next attack, AoE

HUGHETTE
HP: 487.....99.8%
Str: 51
Pdef: 50....Cuts by 2.3 (1.2%)
Mag: 39
Mdef: 41....Takes extra -15.6 (8.0%)
Luck: 23....25% Base Crit Rate
Acc: 55
Spd: 26.....99.0%
Eva: 46.....-5.5% Relative (0.0% Raw)

Passives
Hawk's Bane: 30% Weak to Arrows

Moves
Serpent Slayer: 113 LR Only Phys Damage (119 Base Damage, 88.4% hit rate)
Blinding Arrow (1 TP): 84 LR Only Phys Damage, 90% Blind for 2 Turns (option of 3 Turns; either this or Immobilize) <78.4%/100%> (86 Base Damage, 91.7% hit rate)
Fell Swoop (2 TP): 147 SR Phys Damage (145 Base Damage, 94.5% hit rate)
Shadowstitching Arrow (2 TP): 142 LR Only Phys Damage, 75% Immobilize for 2 Turns (option of 3 Turns; either this of Blind) <65.3%/94.7%> (145 Base Damage, 91.7% hit rate)
Focus (1 TP): Boosts Accuracy 40% and Crit Rate 10% for 1 Action; Allows for Action after Use
Shooting Star (4 TP): 203 LR Phys Damage (200 Base Damage, 94.5% hit rate)

GEELA
HP: 450.....92.2%
Str: 32
Pdef: 40....Takes extra -22.7 (11.6%)
Mag: 63
Mdef: 55....Cuts by 19.4 (9.9%)
Luck: 36....29.1% Crit Rate
Acc: 48
Spd: 25.....95.2%
Eva: 43.....-5.5% Relative (0.0% Raw)

Passives
For Those in Need: Improves Healing 30% on Target below 50% HP

Moves
Sage's Rod: 40 SR Phys Damage (43 Base Damage, 85.5% hit rate)
Cure Wounds (1 TP): 197 Healing (256 under 50% HP)
Haste (2 TP): Raises Speed by 4 for next 3 Actions (Makes Geela 110.4% Speed)
Sanctuary (2 TP): 158 AoE Healing
Mend Wounds (3 TP): 375 Healing (487 under 50% HP)
Miraculous Light (4 TP): 100% Auto-Life

ANNA
HP: 490.....100.4%
Str: 54
Pdef: 52....Cuts by 7.3 (3.8%)
Mag: 14
Mdef: 43....Takes extra -10.6 (5.4%)
Luck: 31....27.2% Crit Rate
Acc: 61
Spd: 31.....118.0%
Eva: 72.....23.7% Relative (27.6% Raw)

Passives
Back Attack Damage Up: Increase Back Damage by ~30% (I factored in a 7.5% bonus)
Act Twice: Acts Twice a Turn
Remain and Recover: Recover 20% of HP when not moving and not acting
Surprise Attack: Increases Damage 30% dealt when Undercover

Moves
Fairy Dagger: 88 SR Phys Damage (83 Base Damage, 98.5% hit rate)
Throw Poison (1 TP): 63 SR/MR LoS Phys Damage, 90% Poison for 2 turns <57.1%/85.6%> (61 Base Damage, 95.4% hit rate)
Slumber Stab (2 TP): 65 SR Phys Damage, 60% Sleep for 2 Turns <57%/75.5%> (65 Base Damage, 100.0% hit rate)
Take Cover (2 TP): Becomes Invisible for next 2 turns. Can't be directly targetted (no ST attacks). Broken if an enemy walks in front of her or if she uses a physical attack.
Deadly Blaze (4 TP): 152 SR Phys Damage, -13 to Def and Mdef for 5 turns (Increases Anna's basic physical by 13) (141 Base Damage, 100.0% hit rate)

ERADOR
HP: 538.....110.2%
Str: 49
Pdef: 74....Cuts by 62.3 (31.9%)
Mag: 12
Mdef: 21....Takes extra -65.6 (33.6%)
Luck: 48....33.6% Crit Rate
Acc: 57
Spd: 24.....91.4%
Eva: 56.....-2.9% Relative (2.5% Raw)

Passives
Physical Damage Up: Physical Damage Up 20% (factored in)
Steelback: Halves physical damage from the back (I'd consider this an additional 12.5% physical resistance)
Desperate Defense: Halves Physical Damage and cuts Magic 20% when under 50% HP
Physical Counter: 75% Chance ½ Basic Counter against SR

Moves
Lion's Shield: 128 SR Phys Damage (121 Base Damage, 96.3% hit rate)
Ram Foe (2 TP): 141 SR Phys Damage, Knockback (131 Base Damage, 97.8% hit rate)
Provoke (2 TP): 75% AoE Fury for 2 Turns <71.3%/95.8%>

CORENTIN
HP: 450.....92.2%
Str: 26
Pdef: 24....Takes extra -62.7 (32.1%)
Mag: 59
Mdef: 58....Cuts by 26.9 (13.8%)
Luck: 18....25% Base Crit Rate
Acc: 32
Spd: 25.....95.2%
Eva: 39.....-5.5% Relative (0.0% Raw)

Passives
Blessing of Ice: 30% Ice Resistance, 30% FireWeakness
TP+ on Ice: Increases TP by 1 if starting on Ice Panel
Ice Panels: Ice Magic Causes Ice Panels; Corentin can use Icy Breath to hit the enemy and create a LR that he can use for TP+ on Ice

Moves
Tome of Snow: 1 SR Phys Damage
Icy Breath (2 TP): 164 LR AoE Magic Ice Damage
Frosty Fetters+ (2 TP): 266 LR Magic Ice Damage, 90% Silence for 2 Turns <85.5%/100%>
Wall of Ice (2 TP): Places a 3 Square Wall with 50 HP that wears after a little more than a turn.
Shield of Ice (3 TP): Nulls damage from 1 attack and counters with 25% MHP Damage (long range)

RUDOLPH
HP: 480.....98.4%
Str: 54
Pdef: 49....Takes extra -0.2 (0.1%)
Mag: 39
Mdef: 44....Takes extra -8.1 (4.1%)
Luck: 25....25% Base Crit Rate
Acc: 53
Spd: 26.....99.0%
Eva: 46.....-5.5% Relative (0.0% Raw)

Passives
Thrill of the Hunt: Increase Speed by 8 for 1 Turn when Defeating an Enemy
Those Who Wait: Raise Acc and Luck by 8 if not moving (Increases hit to 95.4/98.5/98.5/99.3 per below listed move)

Moves
Demon Slayer's Bow: 129 LR Only Phys Damage (141 Base Damage, 85.5% hit rate)
Straight Shot (2 TP): 204 SR/LR Phys Damage (206 Base Damage, 92.3% hit rate)
Slumber Shot (2 TP): 157 LR Only Phys Damage, 60% Sleep for 2 Turn <52.6%/71.2%> (157 Base Damage, 92.3% hit rate)
Staggering Arrow (2 TP): 144 LR AoE Phys Damage, Knockback (141 Base Damage, 95.0% hit rate)

NARVE
HP: 498.....102.0%
Str: 36
Pdef: 33....Takes extra -40.2 (20.6%)
Mag: 55
Mdef: 57....Cuts by 24.4 (12.5%)
Luck: 18....25% Base Crit Rate
Acc: 49
Spd: 25.....95.2%
Eva: 43.....-5.5% Relative (0.0% Raw)

Passives
Pierce Defenses: Decrease enemy Mdef by 4 for 3 turns when dealing any damage (Increase magic damage by ~10)

Moves
Silver Birch Rod: 55 SR Phys Damage (59 Base Damage, 87.0% hit rate)
Whirlwind+ (2 TP): 162 LR AoE Magic Wind Damage
Sanctuary (2 TP): 142 AoE HP Healing
Icy Breath+ (2 TP): 162 LR AoE Magic Ice Damage
Spark+ (2 TP): 250 LR Magic Lightning Damage, 30% Paralyze for 2 Turns <28.5%/35.4%>
Scorch+ (2 TP): 162 LR AoE Magic Fire Damage

HOSSABARA
HP: 502.....102.9%
Str: 55
Pdef: 48....Takes extra -2.7 (1.4%)
Mag: 39
Mdef: 40....Takes extra -18.1 (9.3%)
Luck: 50....34.4% Crit Rate
Acc: 57
Spd: 26.....99.0%
Eva: 52.....-4.9% Relative (0.5% Raw)

Passives
Knight's Bane: 30% Weak to Spears
Trekking for TP: +1 TP when moving 5+ squares
Desperate Defense: Halves Physical Damage and cuts Magic 20% when under 50% HP
Up and Up: Each point of TP increases damage done around ~3% (Listed damage is at 1 TP)

Moves
Plover's Staff: 158 SR Phys Damage (149 Base Damage, 96.3% hit rate)
Cleave (2 TP): 142 SR/MR Phys Damage (134 Base Damage, 96.3% hit rate)
Pushback (2 TP): 172 SR Phys Damage, Knockback (162 Base Damage, 96.3% hit rate)
Be Brave (2 TP): 220 AoE Healing; Can't Target Self

JULIO
HP: 521.....106.8%
Str: 52
Pdef: 50....Cuts by 2.3 (1.2%)
Mag: 39
Mdef: 49....Cuts by 4.4 (2.3%)
Luck: 24....25% Base Crit Rate
Acc: 60
Spd: 26.....99.0%
Eva: 57.....-2.0% Relative (3.3% Raw)

Passives
K.O. TP+: Gain 1 TP when killing any enemies
TP Barrier: 5% Less Damage Taken per TP (so initially starts a battle cutting damage by 15%)

Moves
Curved Longsword: 140 SR Phys Damage (133 Base Damage, 98.1% hit rate)
Not on My Watch (2 TP): 171 SR Phys Damage, 1 TP Damage (163 Base Damage, 98.1% hit rate)
Best Regards (1 TP): 130 SR Magic Damage (124 Base Damage, 98.1% hit rate)
Inheritor: Transfer all TP to an ally

LIONEL
HP: 553.....113.3%
Str: 43
Pdef: 58....Cuts by 22.3 (11.4%)
Mag: 12
Mdef: 41....Takes extra -15.6 (8.0%)
Luck: 57....37.0% Crit Rate
Acc: 53
Spd: 24.....91.4%
Eva: 48.....-5.5% Relative (0.0% Raw)

Moves
Golden Whip: 99 SR Phys Damage (97 Base Damage, 92.3% hit rate)
Brute Force (2 TP): 117 SR Phys Damage (184 Base Damage, 57.6% hit rate)
Ruffle Feathers (2 TP): 90% Fury for 2 Turns <85.5%/100%>
Inciting Whispers (1 TP): 30% Charm for 2 Turns <28.5%/30.8%>
Endless Speech (3 TP): 60% AoE Sleep and Silence for 2 Turns (Separate Checks) <57%/57.5%>

PICCOLETTA
HP: 476.....97.5%
Str: 39
Pdef: 45....Takes extra -10.2 (5.2%)
Mag: 46
Mdef: 55....Cuts by 19.4 (9.9%)
Luck: 48....33.6% Crit Rate
Acc: 49
Spd: 27.....102.8%
Eva: 74.....27.8% Relative (31.6% Raw)

Moves
Cat Racquet: 77 SR Phys Damage (81 Base Damage, 87.0% hit rate)
Ball Toss (1 TP): 78 LR Phys Damage (91 Base Damage, 78.8% hit rate)
Decoy (3 TP): Places a Decoy on the Field; Decoy Stats are 309 HP (63.1%), 24 Str, 29 Def (Takes around 26% extra), 29 Mag, 35 Mdef (Takes around 15% extra), 48 Luck, 48 Acc, 26 Speed, 39 Eva; Upon Dying the Decoy explodes and does 15% MHP SR damage. Decoy draws fire away from Piccoletta (not sure if it's guaranteed if both are in the enemy's range, but at least I believe that if Piccoletta is faster she should be able to use this to draw away ST fire)

JENS
HP: 536.....109.8%
Str: 43
Pdef: 59....Cuts by 24.8 (12.7%)
Mag: 12
Mdef: 22....Takes extra -63.1 (32.3%)
Luck: 21....25% Base Crit Rate
Acc: 57
Spd: 24.....91.4%
Eva: 60.....1.4% Relative (6.5% Raw)

Moves
Hammer of Creation: 100 SR Phys Damage (97 Base Damage, 96.3% hit rate)
Slumber Strike (2 TP): 125 SR Phys Damage, 60% Sleep for 3 Turns <54.9%/75.7%> (125 Base Damage, 96.3% hit rate)

EZANA
HP: 462.....94.7%
Str: 18
Pdef: 32....Takes extra -42.7 (21.9%)
Mag: 59
Mdef: 56....Cuts by 21.9 (11.2%)
Luck: 18....25% Base Crit Rate
Acc: 32
Spd: 25.....95.2%
Eva: 38.....-5.5% Relative (0.0% Raw)

Passives
Rainy Day, Lightning Damage Up: Increase Lightning Damage 15% when Raining
Raging Winds, Wind Damage Up: Increase Wind Damage 15% when Tempest is present
Pierce Defenses: Decrease enemy Mdef by 4 for 3 turns when dealing any damage (Increase magic damage by ~10)

Moves
Hyacinth Staff: 87 SR Phys Damage (87 Base Damage, 55.6% hit rate)
Rite of Lightning (2 TP): 243 LR Magic Lightning Damage, 60% Paralysis for 2 Turns <57%/78.7%>
Rite of Wind (2 TP): 164 LR AoE Magic Wind Damage
Rite of Rain (1 TP): Causes Rainstorm for 5 Turns (Even Indoors)

MEDINA
HP: 460.....94.3%
Str: 41
Pdef: 50....Cuts by 2.3 (1.2%)
Mag: 37
Mdef: 54....Cuts by 16.9 (8.7%)
Luck: 51....34.8% Crit Rate
Acc: 48
Spd: 29.....110.4%
Eva: 42.....-5.5% Relative (0.0% Raw)

Passives
HP Physick: Increases Healing from Items by 30%
TP Physick: Grants 1 TP on target when using healing item

Moves
Gold Knife: 84 SR Phys Damage (89 Base Damage, 85.5% hit rate)
Double Item (3 TP): Use 2 Items; HP Recovery Pellets cost 150 Coins and heal 65 (50 normally) and Large HP Recovery Pellets cost 500 coins restore 130 (100 normally)
Poison Pellet (1 TP): Use 1 Poison Recovery Pellet to inflict 90% Poison (Cost 50 Coins) <85.%/100%>
Fast-Acting Medication (2 TP): Use 1 Swift Spice to move ally turn immediately after Medina (Cost 100 Coins)

ARCHIBALD
HP: 441.....90.4%
Str: 53
Pdef: 47....Takes extra -5.2 (2.6%)
Mag: 27
Mdef: 42....Takes extra -13.1 (6.7%)
Luck: 22....25% Base Crit Rate
Acc: 70
Spd: 24.....91.4%
Eva: 45.....-5.5% Relative (0.0% Raw)

Passives
Critical Damage Up: Crits do 50% more damage than normal attacks
Sniper: +~2 Damage for Each Square of Damage Enemy is Away (I'm adding 6-12 to his base damage depending on the move's range)
A Swift End: 50% Chance to ID enemy below 50% HP when dealing damage <47.5%/71.3%>

Moves
Bow of Serenity III: 164 LR Only Phys Damage (147 Base Damage, 99.7% hit rate)
Edged Arrow (2 TP): 245 LR Only ITD Phys Damage (219 Base Damage, 99.7% hit rate)
Arrow Spray (2 TP): 123 LR AoE Phys Damage (110 Base Damage, 99.7% hit rate)
Inescapable Arrow (3 TP): 195 LR Phys Damage (174 Base Damage, 100.0% hit rate)
Sticky Arrow (1 TP): Lowers Enemy Evade by 8 (Increases Accuracy by 16) for next 3 Enemy Actions; Allows for Action after Use

MILO
HP: 480.....98.4%
Str: 44
Pdef: 51....Cuts by 4.8 (2.5%)
Mag: 55
Mdef: 67....Cuts by 49.4 (25.3%)
Luck: 16....25% Base Crit Rate
Acc: 52
Spd: 28.....106.6%
Eva: 75.....29.9% Relative (33.6% Raw)

Passives
Heart Stealer Rate Up: Increase Heart Stealer hit rate 20% (factored in)
Instinct: Increases Evade to 79 when enemies are within 2 squares (38.2% Relative Evasion/41.6% Raw)

Moves
Phoenix Fan: 89 SR Phys Damage (91 Base Damage, 91.1% hit rate)
Green Mist (1 TP): 133 SR Magic Damage, 90% Poison for 2 turns <77.9%/100%> (136 Base Damage, 91.1% hit rate)
Blue Night (1 TP): Steals 1 TP from enemy and lowers enemy Str by 3 and Magic by 2 (Cuts damage by ~15 and ~10, ~7.5/5%) for 3 actions
Heart Stealer (2 TP): 80% ST Charm for 2 Turns <76%/92.3%>
Stardust (3 TP): 60% AoE Paralysis for 2 Turns <57%/66.7%>

GROMA
HP: 420.....86.1%
Str: 54
Pdef: 64....Cuts by 37.3 (19.1%)
Mag: 14
Mdef: 53....Cuts by 14.4 (7.4%)
Luck: 48....33.6% Crit Rate
Acc: 68
Spd: 29.....110.4%
Eva: 76.....32.0% Relative (35.6% Raw)

Passives
Cross Counter: 0.5 Mult Counterattack when evading
Desperate Evasion: Raise Evasion by 7 below 50% HP (46.5% Relative Evade, 49.6% Raw)
Eliminate and Evade: Raise Evasion by 4 for 3 turns when defeating an enemy

Moves
Fists of Mercy: 155 SR Phys Damage (141 Base Damage, 99.9% hit rate)
Sweeping Kick (2 TP): 96 SR/MR Phys Damage, 50% Immobilize <47.5%/61.9%> (88 Base Damage, 100.0% hit rate)
Energy Wave (1 TP): 154 LR LoS Phys Damage (141 Base Damage, 99.2% hit rate)
Skyward Fist (4 TP): 269 LR Phys Damage (245 Base Damage, 99.9% hit rate)
Lure In (1 TP): 90% Fury to any adjacent enemies <85.5%/100%>

FLANAGAN
HP: 582.....119.3%
Str: 44
Pdef: 67....Cuts by 44.8 (23.0%)
Mag: 12
Mdef: 12....Takes extra -88.1 (45.1%)
Luck: 23....25% Base Crit Rate
Acc: 57
Spd: 25.....95.2%
Eva: 56.....-2.9% Relative (2.5% Raw)

Passives
Hawk's Bane: 30% Weak to Arrows
Ironclad: Halves physical damage from the front (I'd consider this an additional 12.5% physical resistance)
Safe Haven: 50 HP Auto-Regen at start of turn

Moves
Giant's Shield: 104 SR Phys Damage (101 Base Damage, 96.3% hit rate)
Shield Bash (1 TP): 94 SR Phys Damage, 90% Fury for 2 Turns <82.4%/100%> (91 Base Damage, 96.3% hit rate)
Aerial Assault (1 TP): 126 SR Phys Damage (119 Base Damage, 98.9% hit rate)
Fortify (1 TP): Increases Defense by 4 for 3 Turns (Takes ~10 less damage; -54.8 or ~28.8%)

MAXWELL
HP: 506.....103.7%
Str: 56
Pdef: 51....Cuts by 4.8 (2.5%)
Mag: 39
Mdef: 49....Cuts by 4.4 (2.3%)
Luck: 27....25.8% Crit Rate
Acc: 64
Spd: 29.....110.4%
Eva: 57.....-2.0% Relative (3.3% Raw)

Passives
Revive: Once per battle 100% Auto-Life
Two Birds, One Stone: Grants 1 TP if attacking 2+ eneies

Moves
Gungnir III: 132 SR Phys Damage (124 Base Damage, 99.5% hit rate)
Triple Thrust (1 TP): 194 SR Phys Damage (181 Base Damage, 99.9% hit rate)
Run Through (3 TP): 187 LR Linear Phys Damage (175 Base Damage, 99.5% hit rate)
Lance Hurl (2 TP): 163 LR LoS Phys Damage (156 Base Damage, 97.5% hit rate)

CORDELIA
HP: 415.....85.0%
Str: 31
Pdef: 43....Takes extra -15.2 (7.8%)
Mag: 66
Mdef: 48....Cuts by 1.9 (1.0%)
Luck: 36....29.1% Crit Rate
Acc: 48
Spd: 25.....95.2%
Eva: 43.....-5.5% Relative (0.0% Raw)

Passives
Rest and Recover TP: Grants 1 TP when not moving after turn is over

Moves
Sacred Lotus Rod: 40 SR Phys Damage (43 Base Damage, 85.5% hit rate)
Regen (1 TP): 20% Regen at Start of Turn for 4 Turns
Heal (2 TP): 263 Healing
Healing Region (3 TP): 222 AoE Healing
Elude (3 TP): Increase Evade by 6 for 3 Turns (Increases her evade to -3.4% Relative/1.8% Raw)
Above and Beyond (4 TP): 415 Healing; Can heal above max HP

TRISH
HP: 487.....99.8%
Str: 50
Pdef: 49....Takes extra -0.2 (0.1%)
Mag: 18
Mdef: 42....Takes extra -13.1 (6.7%)
Luck: 41....31.0% Crit Rate
Acc: 58
Spd: 28.....106.6%
Eva: 47.....-5.5% Relative (0.0% Raw)

Passives
Blessing of Fire: 30% Fire Resistance, 30% Ice Weakness
Clear Skies, Accuracy Up: Increase Acc by 10 under Clear Skies (given 50% credit)

Moves
Trickster's Shortbow: 126 LR Only Phys Damage (125 Base Damage, 92.3% hit rate)
Flaming Arrow (2 TP): 182 LR Only Phys Fire Damage (176 Base Damage, 95.0% hit rate)
Bullseye (1 TP): 117 LR Only ITE Phys Damage (107 Base Damage)

TRAVIS
HP: 535.....109.6%
Str: 56
Pdef: 52....Cuts by 7.3 (3.8%)
Mag: 18
Mdef: 42....Takes extra -13.1 (6.7%)
Luck: 34....28.4% Crit Rate
Acc: 58
Spd: 25.....95.2%
Eva: 47.....-5.5% Relative (0.0% Raw)

Passives
On Your Guard: Decreases damage taken by 10% when no ally is nearby
Steelback: Halves physical damage from the back (I'd consider this an additional 12.5% physical resistance)

Moves
Crow's Cudgel: 156 SR Phys Damage (149 Base Damage, 96.9% hit rate)
Backwards Toss (2 TP): 210 SR Phys Damage (197 Base Damage, 98.3% hit rate)
Mug+ (1 TP): 202 SR Phys Damage (190 Base Damage, 98.3% hit rate)
Impeding Strike (2 TP): 127 SR/MR Phys Damage, 0.5 Turn Delay (121 Base Damage, 96.9% hit rate)

AVLORA
HP: 521.....106.8%
Str: 56
Pdef: 58....Cuts by 22.3 (11.4%)
Mag: 37
Mdef: 47....Takes extra -0.6 (0.3%)
Luck: 40....30.6% Crit Rate
Acc: 60
Spd: 26.....99.0%
Eva: 57.....-2.0% Relative (3.3% Raw)

Passives
Desperate Strike: Increases Damage dealt by 30% when under 50% HP
Desperate Defense: Halves Physical Damage and cuts Magic 20% when under 50% HP
Prevail and Power Up: Increases Str by 2 for 3 turns after killing enemy

Moves
Berserker III: 159 SR Phys Damage (149 Base Damage, 98.1% hit rate)
Risky Manuever: 254 SR Phys Damage, Costs and Requires 15% MHP (238 Base Damage, 98.1% hit rate)
No Escape (2 TP): 129 SR/MR Phys Damage (121 Base Damage, 98.1% hit rate)
Spare No Effort (1 TP): Increases Str by 2 and Evade by 6 and Decreases Defense by 6

DECIMAL
HP: 467.....95.7%
Str: 48
Pdef: 56....Cuts by 17.3 (8.9%)
Mag: 48
Mdef: 56....Cuts by 21.9 (11.2%)
Luck: 17....25% Base Crit Rate
Acc: 72
Spd: 25.....95.2%
Eva: 40.....-5.5% Relative (0.0% Raw)

Passives
Automaton's Artifice: Immune to Status, but doesn't get TP naturally
Charge TP: Gain 3 TP when not moving and not acting

Moves
Kaleidoscope: 97 SR Phys Damage (97 Base Damage, 100.0% hit rate)
Target HP 3 (2 TP): 167 LR AoE Magic Damage, Only works on target's with HP divisible by 3
Target HP 4 (2 TP): 167 LR AoE Magic Damage, Only works on target's with HP divisible by 4
Target HP 5 (3 TP): 179 LR AoE Magic Damage, 10% Chance of ID, Only works on target's with HP divisible by 5 <9.5%/3.2%>

QUAHAUG
HP: 455.....93.2%
Str: 21
Pdef: 28....Takes extra -52.7 (27.0%)
Mag: 58
Mdef: 58....Cuts by 26.9 (13.8%)
Luck: 18....25% Base Crit Rate
Acc: 32
Spd: 31.....118.0%
Eva: 39.....-5.5% Relative (0.0% Raw)

Passives
Remain and Recover: Recover 20% of HP when not moving and not acting

Moves
Space-Time Scepter: 6 SR Phys Damage (11 Base Damage, 55.6% hit rate)
Time Compression (1 TP): +2 Speed to an ally for 3 Turns
In Due Course (1 TP): Does 25% Max HP Damage (rounded down) to Enemy at the resolution of their next turn
Stop Time (3 TP): 100% Field Stop for 2 Turns; Works on everything in game; Enemy turns still resolve but no action/move can be taken (so In Due Course can be used to do damage); Can Take Additional Action afterwards
Turn Back Time (2 TP): Revert a target's (either self, ally or enemy) HP, position and status to last time Quahaug acted

GIOVANNA
HP: 485.....99.4%
Str: 41
Pdef: 55....Cuts by 14.8 (7.6%)
Mag: 51
Mdef: 63....Cuts by 39.4 (20.2%)
Luck: 39....30.2% Crit Rate
Acc: 62
Spd: 24.....91.4%
Eva: 51.....-5.2% Relative (0.3% Raw)

Passives
Trekking for TP: +1 TP when moving 5+ squares
TP to Power: Adds 1 to Str and Mag for each TP Giovanna has

Moves
Pickaxe of Eternity w/ TP 3: 98 SR Phys Damage (91 Base Damage, 98.9% hit rate)
Pickaxe of Eternity w/ TP 4: 106 SR Phys Damage (99 Base Damage, 98.9% hit rate)
Rock Toss (1 TP): 101 LR Phys Damage (94 Base Damage, 98.9% hit rate)
Gaia Roar (5 TP): 217 LR Phys Damage

20

Tournaments / Re: Futurama type tournament- hammer time!

« on: May 19, 2022, 12:08:19 AM »

Godlike:

Loki (VP1) vs Myria (BoF3)
Elc (AtL2) vs Orlandu (FFT)- Flame Shield + Weapon Break should do the trick

Heavy:
Daos (Lufia 2) vs Frejyadour (S5)

Middle:
Squall (FF8) vs Setsuna (Setsuna)- Playing a version with Hide working makes this clear since she gets a notable attack boost after she does it that allows her to just flat out 2HKO with Luminaire

Light:

Cecil (FF4) vs Shu (AtL2)- This is so funny.

21

Tournaments / Re: Futurama type tournament- other half of the field

« on: May 10, 2022, 01:02:31 PM »

The counterbalance is that if I factored those turns into her HP, then I'd have to look at her speed. She double-acts on turn 1 (well, potential to gets one action on turn two but also potentially gets no actions turn 1) and then she acts again on turn 4 (Could be turn 3 if broken turn 1. I'm assuming that she must have recovery initiative for both actions that isn't effected by Legtrap Hold). Either I'm double lapping her like crazy or she's very frail. If I didn't prorate her HP and gave her all the actions, based on my game experience (of which I could go into detail, especially in particular on why I think the game kept making weird decisions that felt contrary to RPG player psychology that could directly impact level if you followed the game's suggestions), that would be double-crediting (for her in that case).

Also, I did address your broader point (you quoted my address; it's the first line in your last post); my address was that I didn't quite understand the nuance of the what you were arguing based on your post. Hence why I responded to each previous line you had made in order.

22

Tournaments / Re: Futurama type tournament- other half of the field

« on: May 10, 2022, 03:29:57 AM »

Not sure how it's double crediting weakness, because I'm not seeing her as weak to anything Loki is doing and I'm saying that her HP is a direct function of metrics of breakability. The key is that breaking denies her turns and boosts your damage in a way that made it very easy for me to kill her once broken (Defense Down really helps as well, boosting the two big heavy hitters 50%.). I don't give OT bosses any credit for any PC turns taken while she categorically is unable to act. I consider exploring the map on the way to towns pretty standard and the game has icons pop up on the map if you get close enough and I unlocked all the towns before proceeding to any stories.

Critically, if you mapped the 0.425 PC HP onto a standard formulation, that in no way is an average of 40,000 as 40000 x 4 PCs x 2.5 Turns x 0.425 PC HP 170,000 HP which is much more HP than she has.

23

Tournaments / Re: Futurama type tournament- other half of the field

« on: May 09, 2022, 03:32:45 PM »

I see C4 OT boss HP as derived from their breakability (they get broken, they die) and the realistic chance that you might correctly guess their weaknesses (which generally comes down to first guessing that they are weak to weapons and elements the locked PC is guaranteed to have). Esmerelda is particurlarly heinous on this. 4 Shield and weak to Spears is bad because it means that there is a decent chance she's broken in a single move (I guess it could be worse; she could be weak to Spears and Arrows!). Regardless, 3 guessed moves to break her at worst, 1 at "best". I'd see her broken early turn 2, which means that the rest of turn 2 is spent buffing/debuffing and turn 3 she is blasted into space with 2 Divine Skills that are likely somewhat buffed. The best thing I can say about her breakability is that it's so horribly bad that you might break her too quickly, which is not something I really consider true of any other C4 boss.

I don't see Archmage/other mage as after game anyways. They are in your way and you can defeat them with minimal tactical defensive strategies (which I had spent all game waiting to be used after how important they were in BD/BS; one of the notable marks OT has against it). While they are better than C4 bosses, they also have rewards that any player is going to beeline for the first opportunity. I stole/merchanted items that were top of the line (which did give me notably higher damage than the topic), so that was available in town with a decent level of transparency so I definitely wouldn't consider those aftergame. I also kept a consistent party most of C3 to start, which helps boost damage (and the game's actual design encourages always leaving in some characters because their innates are so absurdly good or because removing them would be mentally antithetical to basically every RPG player (Therion)).

Lucia is durable, some of the others hover around PC HP to me, Esmerelda is bad.

24

Tournaments / Re: Futurama type tournament- other half of the field

« on: May 06, 2022, 09:47:59 PM »

Godlike:

Esmeralda (Octopath) vs Loki (VP1)- Esmeralda's damage is physically dependent. Granted, this is two divisions higher than I see Esmerelda and her 0.425 PC HP.
Elc (AtL2) vs Profound Darkness (PS4)- A lot of HP to chew through means hilarious Divide strategies. Elc won't even need Invincible here to do anything.

Heavy:
Finn (CSH) vs Freyjadour (S5)- Finn hates Fire res and healing.
Stella (Brig:LoR) vs Serge (CC)- Faster and turn 1 Stun to me makes this easy

Middle:
Setsuna (Setsuna) vs Robo (CT)- Setsuna barely outspeeds Robo turn 1 and has much more/better healing.

Light:
Shu (AtL2) vs Locke (FF6)- So, I think evasion tips this. Shu has 31% evade to me. Locke gets 3 attacks (2 of which hit) before the second time bomb kills him and so needs to do half of Shu's HP. Locke does about 6600 damage with Valiant Knife + 1/2 HP Valiant Knife, although Shu cuts the non ITD part by about 30%, so make that 5100. Shu has a little over 11000 equiv FF 6 damage, so Locke doesn't manage to do half his HP. So
Locke->Shu (L2 Time Bomb)->Locke (Misses)->Shu (Uh...unneeded defense buff)->Time Bomb Hits Locke; Locke at 1/2 HP->Locke->Shu (L3 Time Bomb kills Locke, but not Shu)

Edit: That said, if you see Shu countering Locke's physicals this is even worse. L2 Time Bomb + 2 Physicals kill Locke (so at worst 3 physical attempts). The 3 attempts become the counter to Locke's first attack, the counter to Locke's second attack and Shu's second turn.
Primrose (Octopath) vs Noel (SO2)- Celine would live longer in this fight than Noel...

25

Tournaments / Re: Futurerama style tournament round 2- because we all deserve Kain vs Thief

« on: May 06, 2022, 02:12:53 AM »

Godlike:
Melfice (G2) vs Reicher Wallach (MK2)
Rudo Marco (Brig) vs Yuna (FFX)- Yuna's scaled evade is 49.6% and I use Brig 2 turn order as turn 1 speed so Rudo is notably faster than her turn 1.

Heavy:
Lassic (PS4) vs Hugo (S3)

Middle:
Hahn Mahlay (PS4) vs Guy (Lufia 2)

Light:
Ophilia Clement (Octopath) vs Setzer Gabianni (FF6)- So, Setzer's ID takes too long for me, but isn't it a bit of problem under normal views? 20% ID is turn 5 by 67% threshold and that means Ophilia gets 4 turns. She equips for magic, meaning she does like 545 damage at base and having 4 turns means that she gets 7x mult overall, or 3815 damage, which I would imagine most people see killing.
Thief(male)(FFT) vs Kain Highwind (FF4)- Sure, Steal Weapon