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Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 4
« on: September 23, 2010, 11:00:18 AM »
Do or die time.
##Vote: Helga
Hammer. Stop talking.
##Vote: Helga
Hammer. Stop talking.
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2
Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 4
« on: September 23, 2010, 12:00:35 AM »
I'm still fine with a Helga lynch. There are too many things in her Mai breakdown that read false to me. Characterizing Mai's entire game as LAL, for one. Mai invokes it a lot but it's not been her sole reason to go after people--Leia was lynched in large part due to what she said when she did post, remember. If she had attempted to contribute instead of actively trolling the game, she wouldn't have been such a magnet. Mai mentioned Leia's attitude as being part of the problem when she cast her vote, yet Helga still doesn't seem to notice this (despite quoting Mai posts that say as much). Speculation about scum stealth-hammering Leia to save Mai doesn't really scan either; after what Leia did, I don't think there really was a realistic chance of someone other than her getting lynched that day. Two votes on Mai wouldn't really have been that much of a threat.
Confidence, what Tanaka refers to as "smugness," being used as a demerit isn't something I buy either. I've found this is a pretty necessary approach in mafia to get people to listen to opinions regardless of alignment. And yes, Mai's lynch choices have been wrong so far. The thing is, so have everyone else's.
There's also Helga's continued reliance on mere suggestions along the lines of "Maybe Mai deliberately missed the end of day one." This is impossible to prove; I really only consider absences stretching towards a day or more suspicious given the way this game has gone; and I just plain don't think it's true in this case (I hate to bring this point up because it invokes an advantage Rat and no one else has--not being anonymous--but day one ended very early in the A.M. Oz time. Not Posting at Five in the Morning isn't really a fair accusation in any circumstances, I think). Ultimately I just don't buy the case and it feels desperate.
I am fine with casting votes at this point.
(Addendum: Some minor historical revisionism on Tanaka's part in his last post. Yesterday he stated I hadn't done anything but defend myself against Maya, while today he applauds my dedicated scumhunting (and says that his suspicion of me was only ever based on Rin connections). People are allowed to change their minds and all, but this is a pretty abrupt turnaround. Given that Tanaka was the last of us to make his first post of the day, he had plenty of chance to see where the wind was blowing, cut his losses and tailor his opinions accordingly to save face in the event of a potential day five. But that's something to consider for tomorrow if there is one.)
Confidence, what Tanaka refers to as "smugness," being used as a demerit isn't something I buy either. I've found this is a pretty necessary approach in mafia to get people to listen to opinions regardless of alignment. And yes, Mai's lynch choices have been wrong so far. The thing is, so have everyone else's.
There's also Helga's continued reliance on mere suggestions along the lines of "Maybe Mai deliberately missed the end of day one." This is impossible to prove; I really only consider absences stretching towards a day or more suspicious given the way this game has gone; and I just plain don't think it's true in this case (I hate to bring this point up because it invokes an advantage Rat and no one else has--not being anonymous--but day one ended very early in the A.M. Oz time. Not Posting at Five in the Morning isn't really a fair accusation in any circumstances, I think). Ultimately I just don't buy the case and it feels desperate.
I am fine with casting votes at this point.
(Addendum: Some minor historical revisionism on Tanaka's part in his last post. Yesterday he stated I hadn't done anything but defend myself against Maya, while today he applauds my dedicated scumhunting (and says that his suspicion of me was only ever based on Rin connections). People are allowed to change their minds and all, but this is a pretty abrupt turnaround. Given that Tanaka was the last of us to make his first post of the day, he had plenty of chance to see where the wind was blowing, cut his losses and tailor his opinions accordingly to save face in the event of a potential day five. But that's something to consider for tomorrow if there is one.)
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Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 4
« on: September 22, 2010, 03:47:09 AM »
Mrrrrghl. Why do you people sign up if you're not going to play. Frustration. Here's where I'm standing right now, anyway.
Helga: Our best bet to nab scum at this point. Day 1 disappearing act, various forced arguments throughout the game, made one post yesterday and then vanished (and there were more then twenty-four hours worth of game-time leading up to the lynch). This leaves the bulk of her content on day 2, where she mostly focused on cases other people ultimately didn't follow (Mai, Li).
Tanaka: Has been on every mislynch of the game. He's been a constant presence but, outside of Chiaki day 1, I find it hard to remember cases he's pushed for really strongly. I mean, there's Rin, who Tanaka came out voting for first on day 3, but Rin was getting flak throughout day 2 and Tanaka was kind of late to that party. Over the course of day 3 he expressed doubts about Li, Mai, Helga, and myself as though laying groundwork for whichever case would be most advantageous today. High presence cheerleader act pushes him above Li/Mai.
Speculation: Helga/Tanaka scumpair? Neither has ever subjected the other to much scrutiny. Every now and then they've highlighted something they didn't like in one of the other's posts, but they've never really pressed it or followed it up with a vote. They've also both stated, at varying times, that they're not sure they trust those Li/Mai blokes, without ever really acknowledging that the other is making similar points (Tanaka does call Helga on a bit of metagaming she uses against Mai, but he escalates his own suspicion of Mai shortly thereafter). Scum hivemind in action with a veneer of conflict?
Li: Kind of hard to consider as anything but a hapless townie by this point. If he's pulling the I, Claudius act, it's a good one. I'm wondering now if Helga and Tanaka's votes for him early day 2 was a train attempt that didn't pick up steam and was abandoned in favor of Leia when she became the center of attention.
Mai: Has mostly made sensible arguments, I feel, so it's hard for me to find any cracks here. I am open to compelling counterarguments, just haven't seen any thus far (Helga's wound up having too many flaws that led me to view it as an artificial case; Tanaka just made brief mention of some gut suspicion yesterday).
Helga: Our best bet to nab scum at this point. Day 1 disappearing act, various forced arguments throughout the game, made one post yesterday and then vanished (and there were more then twenty-four hours worth of game-time leading up to the lynch). This leaves the bulk of her content on day 2, where she mostly focused on cases other people ultimately didn't follow (Mai, Li).
Tanaka: Has been on every mislynch of the game. He's been a constant presence but, outside of Chiaki day 1, I find it hard to remember cases he's pushed for really strongly. I mean, there's Rin, who Tanaka came out voting for first on day 3, but Rin was getting flak throughout day 2 and Tanaka was kind of late to that party. Over the course of day 3 he expressed doubts about Li, Mai, Helga, and myself as though laying groundwork for whichever case would be most advantageous today. High presence cheerleader act pushes him above Li/Mai.
Speculation: Helga/Tanaka scumpair? Neither has ever subjected the other to much scrutiny. Every now and then they've highlighted something they didn't like in one of the other's posts, but they've never really pressed it or followed it up with a vote. They've also both stated, at varying times, that they're not sure they trust those Li/Mai blokes, without ever really acknowledging that the other is making similar points (Tanaka does call Helga on a bit of metagaming she uses against Mai, but he escalates his own suspicion of Mai shortly thereafter). Scum hivemind in action with a veneer of conflict?
Li: Kind of hard to consider as anything but a hapless townie by this point. If he's pulling the I, Claudius act, it's a good one. I'm wondering now if Helga and Tanaka's votes for him early day 2 was a train attempt that didn't pick up steam and was abandoned in favor of Leia when she became the center of attention.
Mai: Has mostly made sensible arguments, I feel, so it's hard for me to find any cracks here. I am open to compelling counterarguments, just haven't seen any thus far (Helga's wound up having too many flaws that led me to view it as an artificial case; Tanaka just made brief mention of some gut suspicion yesterday).
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Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 3
« on: September 21, 2010, 02:55:07 AM »
Ugh.
I am inclined to say this shouldn't change our course of action today, though. Rin could be having RL problems; Rin could also have decided to just not come back after seeing three votes against her early in the day. We don't know. What we do know are the standing charges against her. Those haven't changed.
Logistically speaking, modkilled Rin + us lynching someone else today is also very risky for us. If we're wrong about both (though I think that unlikely in Rin's case) then we potentially lose the game overnight (one lynched townie, one modkilled townie, one nightkilled townie = two town and two scum left. This is autowin in scum's favor). We functionally do buy some time by preventing modkill (I mean, we could just let the modkill happen and also just let the day end, but I hate No Lynch days on principle). I'd rather ensure we have that extra day with the benefit of another flip to provide new information, because this day sure doesn't seem to be producing much more of it. Really agreeing with Tanaka/Houlihan's impulse to end it.
Obviously suggest giving the modprodded player time to show up as a matter of courtesy, but if that doesn't happen in a reasonable span of time then I support lynching her before the modkill kicks in. I'm skeptical that we'll accomplish anything else today anyway. I already have my vote down, at any rate, so checking out for a while.
I am inclined to say this shouldn't change our course of action today, though. Rin could be having RL problems; Rin could also have decided to just not come back after seeing three votes against her early in the day. We don't know. What we do know are the standing charges against her. Those haven't changed.
Logistically speaking, modkilled Rin + us lynching someone else today is also very risky for us. If we're wrong about both (though I think that unlikely in Rin's case) then we potentially lose the game overnight (one lynched townie, one modkilled townie, one nightkilled townie = two town and two scum left. This is autowin in scum's favor). We functionally do buy some time by preventing modkill (I mean, we could just let the modkill happen and also just let the day end, but I hate No Lynch days on principle). I'd rather ensure we have that extra day with the benefit of another flip to provide new information, because this day sure doesn't seem to be producing much more of it. Really agreeing with Tanaka/Houlihan's impulse to end it.
Obviously suggest giving the modprodded player time to show up as a matter of courtesy, but if that doesn't happen in a reasonable span of time then I support lynching her before the modkill kicks in. I'm skeptical that we'll accomplish anything else today anyway. I already have my vote down, at any rate, so checking out for a while.
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Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 3
« on: September 20, 2010, 09:29:53 PM »
Tanakastuff.
You fail to acknowledge context. The post existed to point out the flaws of an assumption Maya was making, flawed arguments being used in the defense of someone I found scummy. When I see nonsense I feel obligated to refute it, although perhaps I should stop since the net result seems to be people characterizing me by arguments I'm actually disagreeing with.
There's a lot of weasely language in here. The first sentence really doesn't mean anything--I'm forced to wonder, what precisely is the standard amount of talking two players can do about each other during this vaguely specified point in the game before it looks odd? And "possibly scummy interaction" looks like wafflese to me. Is it, or isn't it? I have made a case against Rin that I believe to be substantial (as much as it can be given her limited material), citing specific arguments of hers that I feel to be forced and referring back to them later. If you've missed all that then I can only respond with questions marks.
Tanakaninja! Agreement on killing third-party speculation; won't get us anywhere right now. Not really seeing your problem with Mai today. It's not like "Kill Rin!" is the only thing she said.
Tron/Margaret/etc: I was referring back to Tron's last post on day 2, which contained a lot of what I would call wheel spinning regarding "well we don't know if Rin is town" without really saying much.
You fail to acknowledge context. The post existed to point out the flaws of an assumption Maya was making, flawed arguments being used in the defense of someone I found scummy. When I see nonsense I feel obligated to refute it, although perhaps I should stop since the net result seems to be people characterizing me by arguments I'm actually disagreeing with.
I read back further, and in those posts I linked, both Rin and Tron talk about each other more than I think would be usual at that point in the game, without actually saying anything of substance about each other. I think this is possibly scummy interaction. As noted, speculation on interactions like that is premature and really doesn't mean much without a flip, in regards to Tron, BUT the point I was trying to make is that at the very least it doesn't help Rin in my eyes at all because it's one of the few significant interactions there have been with her *at all*, either way, and it's at the very least weird and not scumhunty.
There's a lot of weasely language in here. The first sentence really doesn't mean anything--I'm forced to wonder, what precisely is the standard amount of talking two players can do about each other during this vaguely specified point in the game before it looks odd? And "possibly scummy interaction" looks like wafflese to me. Is it, or isn't it? I have made a case against Rin that I believe to be substantial (as much as it can be given her limited material), citing specific arguments of hers that I feel to be forced and referring back to them later. If you've missed all that then I can only respond with questions marks.
Tanakaninja! Agreement on killing third-party speculation; won't get us anywhere right now. Not really seeing your problem with Mai today. It's not like "Kill Rin!" is the only thing she said.
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Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 3
« on: September 20, 2010, 02:29:01 AM »
After some rereading, I can't find any compelling reason to suspect Mai right now (except that Rat's alive on day three. This is a joke Rat don't hate me). The occasional statement twigged as being disagreeable, but I can't fault the fundamental arguments she's been making.
Out of the trio I wanted to look at, Helga stands out the most. The first bad thing I see is right on this page:
I really don't like how Helga takes up the mantle of the slain townie to support her cause. It's cheap and honestly looks a little slimy to me. She's also seconding metagaming, which I deplore. I can't properly express how dreadful this game becomes when it's turned into "Person X must be Y alignment because otherwise they wouldn't say Z," but that's basically what Helga's agreeing with here. Metagaming alone isn't reason to declare someone scum, no, but it's in the company of other problems here. For example, it's a mischaracterization to boil down Mai's entire game to LAL. It's been a significant part of Mai's reasoning for votes, yes, but it's always been coupled with notes on behavioral quirks and bad arguments, and I think it disingenuous to ignore that. I'm also really not sure what she's getting at with that big Mai quote she included in her last post. Mai wasn't reading that much into Leia's actions but rather, it seemed to me, advising against doing just that.
I've seen this kind of thing crop up in her posts a couple times (notably stating that Li deliberately avoided day 1 deadline when we have no way to prove this and it would've been more advantageous for scum Li to be there) and fallen into the habit of ignoring them because there was usually enough there that I did agree with to give her a pass, but it does look worse the more often it happens.
Still don't have much to pin on Tanaka. There's the nagging suspicion that his posts say a lot of things that have already been said by others and it's just been easy to overlook this because he's so entertaining, but it's hard to substantiate this since he has at least generally given good reasons to go after the people he has. Just a little uneasy here. Still looks better than Helga, though.
Rin > Helga > Tanaka = Li > Mai for suspicion right now, then. Not sure what to think about Houlihan.
...Oh hey, ninja'd by Houlihan after all. Dunno what to say about that; such an admission begs more questions which it may be best not to ask. So I'll just ask for thoughts on the current situation and the surviving players.
Out of the trio I wanted to look at, Helga stands out the most. The first bad thing I see is right on this page:
In particular, I really agree with this quote from Maya yesterday about Mai.QuoteHey guys, let's not pay any attention on the people who are talking and line people up in the order of how little they've spoken. Mechanical thinking, mechanical excuses. Turn brain off, let scum win. I'd buy it as the thought process from someone hopelessly dedicated to the rule book, but not from Rat. Not for a minute. And he's been playing this card all day.
I had the same kind of feeling yesterday, when Mai made a big deal about my charge against Li for missing out on sudden death and proposing it might have been on purpose. This was a legitimate thing to at least bring up, though it might not have been as damning as I thought it was. Calling it completely stupid was not constructive at all, and saying Li was around up to that point completely missed mine. Maya showed what good townies do with things like that by at least taking it seriously and offering a legitimate counterpoint, at least.
I really don't like how Helga takes up the mantle of the slain townie to support her cause. It's cheap and honestly looks a little slimy to me. She's also seconding metagaming, which I deplore. I can't properly express how dreadful this game becomes when it's turned into "Person X must be Y alignment because otherwise they wouldn't say Z," but that's basically what Helga's agreeing with here. Metagaming alone isn't reason to declare someone scum, no, but it's in the company of other problems here. For example, it's a mischaracterization to boil down Mai's entire game to LAL. It's been a significant part of Mai's reasoning for votes, yes, but it's always been coupled with notes on behavioral quirks and bad arguments, and I think it disingenuous to ignore that. I'm also really not sure what she's getting at with that big Mai quote she included in her last post. Mai wasn't reading that much into Leia's actions but rather, it seemed to me, advising against doing just that.
I've seen this kind of thing crop up in her posts a couple times (notably stating that Li deliberately avoided day 1 deadline when we have no way to prove this and it would've been more advantageous for scum Li to be there) and fallen into the habit of ignoring them because there was usually enough there that I did agree with to give her a pass, but it does look worse the more often it happens.
Still don't have much to pin on Tanaka. There's the nagging suspicion that his posts say a lot of things that have already been said by others and it's just been easy to overlook this because he's so entertaining, but it's hard to substantiate this since he has at least generally given good reasons to go after the people he has. Just a little uneasy here. Still looks better than Helga, though.
Rin > Helga > Tanaka = Li > Mai for suspicion right now, then. Not sure what to think about Houlihan.
...Oh hey, ninja'd by Houlihan after all. Dunno what to say about that; such an admission begs more questions which it may be best not to ask. So I'll just ask for thoughts on the current situation and the surviving players.
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Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 3
« on: September 20, 2010, 01:00:21 AM »
Hm. Somehow we're not in LYLO (rules post states LYLO day would have no time limit) which means two scum. Unexpected for a game this size. Does make me comfortable enough to go ahead and do this, however:
##Vote: Rin
This puts her at -1 to lynch. Early in the day for it, I know, but I don't mind given how bad she looks. To wit:
One notable post on each of the previous days. Significant amount of parroted content in them. Any content in the one case she tried to push yesterday (against me) that wasn't nabbed from Maya consisted of demonstrably false statements. I really must direct anyone looking at her case towards replies 82 and 83 in the thread. I feel the fact that she blatantly ignores content within the same posts of mine that she cites in order to make it appear as though I was making a completely contradictory statement is a shining hallmark of fabricated cases. This isn't a question of interpretation; she flat out says my posts mean the opposite of what's typed there for all to see. She also never replied when I refuted these points, despite saying she was going to be around and provide more observations.
Textbook lurkscum trying to look productive. I am aware that similar statements were made about Leia yesterday (well, minus the attempt to look productive) and feel that this makes no difference. It says more about this being the laziest town ever than anything else. This also stands out on a reread:
Why was Rin worried about dying there? It's a strange comment to make. There was talk from plenty of people about suspecting her at that time, but she clearly wasn't on the block (Leia was near getting lynched at the time and doing nothing to stop it). So why the avowed concern? It's just special pleading. "I'm worried about getting killed, so I must be a townie." Actual townies don't need to make comments like this.
~
Reading new posts now. WIFOM incoming, watch your head:
Bolded statement is awful reasoning, Li, and the sort of comment that's had me looking at you all game (I am increasingly thinking that it's more bad reasoning than ill intent just because it's so consistent; a backhanded compliment, I'm aware, but you're just uncoordinated in a way that says clueless town more than flailing scum). Speculating on why scum killed who they killed is worse than pointless. It's completely unreliable and only propagates the kind of confusion they like.
I also fail to understand what about my exchange with Rin says anything to you about us being a scumteam. I looked back at the post you linked and you really don't go into that possibility at all there. Actually, you mostly just nod your head at Rin's case, your only misgiving being that she doesn't couple it with a vote. Do you have an actual explanation here?
I've probably said this before, but I think it's bad play to speculate on scumteams when we don't have any flipped scum. You can speculate on multiple individuals being scum, yes, but using one person of unconfirmed alignment to clear or condemn another person of unconfirmed alignment is a circlejerk of assumptions. There's just not enough information to speculate productively on it and it leaves someone groping in the dark. Or scum trying very hard to look like a perceptive townie. Which makes me want to take a closer look at Tanaka since he's doing it too.
Tanaka, I pose to you the same question I just asked Li: what about my interactions with Rin says anything to you? In your last post, you pick a couple stray messages and say these "look bad." This is uselessly vague. What about them looks bad? You give us two posts in a vacuum and act as though it means something obvious. I want examples and reasons. Until then, it's not much of an argument. Possibly just slinging mud.
~
So I'm obviously sticking to Rin as number one suspect right now. Houlihan looks terrible for disappearing but is pointless to pursue while mod action seems possible. Li is increasingly difficult not to see as an illogical and easily led townie (sorry man, I call it like I see it). This leaves me with the possibility that someone's been slipping under my radar. Mai, Tanaka or Helga. Am going to do some rereading and consider which of the three looks most likely.
##Vote: Rin
This puts her at -1 to lynch. Early in the day for it, I know, but I don't mind given how bad she looks. To wit:
One notable post on each of the previous days. Significant amount of parroted content in them. Any content in the one case she tried to push yesterday (against me) that wasn't nabbed from Maya consisted of demonstrably false statements. I really must direct anyone looking at her case towards replies 82 and 83 in the thread. I feel the fact that she blatantly ignores content within the same posts of mine that she cites in order to make it appear as though I was making a completely contradictory statement is a shining hallmark of fabricated cases. This isn't a question of interpretation; she flat out says my posts mean the opposite of what's typed there for all to see. She also never replied when I refuted these points, despite saying she was going to be around and provide more observations.
Textbook lurkscum trying to look productive. I am aware that similar statements were made about Leia yesterday (well, minus the attempt to look productive) and feel that this makes no difference. It says more about this being the laziest town ever than anything else. This also stands out on a reread:
The only person I still can't really make sense of right now is Helga, but let me get this out first before I land on the business end of a sword... or worse. More in my next post.
Why was Rin worried about dying there? It's a strange comment to make. There was talk from plenty of people about suspecting her at that time, but she clearly wasn't on the block (Leia was near getting lynched at the time and doing nothing to stop it). So why the avowed concern? It's just special pleading. "I'm worried about getting killed, so I must be a townie." Actual townies don't need to make comments like this.
~
Reading new posts now. WIFOM incoming, watch your head:
Right now I'm really thinking are two scum are among Tron, Rin and Mai. Tron is flaring up after Maya's death, but besides that I can come up with good ways to quantify the Tron/Rin and Rin/Mai pairings - namely, the Tron/Rin interaction here and (as I've mentioned several times already) the way that Mai tip-toed conveniently around Rin's lurking charges. Tron/Mai doesn't look as viable as the other two options.
Bolded statement is awful reasoning, Li, and the sort of comment that's had me looking at you all game (I am increasingly thinking that it's more bad reasoning than ill intent just because it's so consistent; a backhanded compliment, I'm aware, but you're just uncoordinated in a way that says clueless town more than flailing scum). Speculating on why scum killed who they killed is worse than pointless. It's completely unreliable and only propagates the kind of confusion they like.
I also fail to understand what about my exchange with Rin says anything to you about us being a scumteam. I looked back at the post you linked and you really don't go into that possibility at all there. Actually, you mostly just nod your head at Rin's case, your only misgiving being that she doesn't couple it with a vote. Do you have an actual explanation here?
I've probably said this before, but I think it's bad play to speculate on scumteams when we don't have any flipped scum. You can speculate on multiple individuals being scum, yes, but using one person of unconfirmed alignment to clear or condemn another person of unconfirmed alignment is a circlejerk of assumptions. There's just not enough information to speculate productively on it and it leaves someone groping in the dark. Or scum trying very hard to look like a perceptive townie. Which makes me want to take a closer look at Tanaka since he's doing it too.
Tanaka, I pose to you the same question I just asked Li: what about my interactions with Rin says anything to you? In your last post, you pick a couple stray messages and say these "look bad." This is uselessly vague. What about them looks bad? You give us two posts in a vacuum and act as though it means something obvious. I want examples and reasons. Until then, it's not much of an argument. Possibly just slinging mud.
~
So I'm obviously sticking to Rin as number one suspect right now. Houlihan looks terrible for disappearing but is pointless to pursue while mod action seems possible. Li is increasingly difficult not to see as an illogical and easily led townie (sorry man, I call it like I see it). This leaves me with the possibility that someone's been slipping under my radar. Mai, Tanaka or Helga. Am going to do some rereading and consider which of the three looks most likely.
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Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 2
« on: September 18, 2010, 01:31:15 AM »-I'm sorry, but I don't think Leia is scum either. Missed a golden opportunity to silence Rin for another day if nothing else. Don't see anyone believing it could work. Stupidly risky at the best of times, but especially in such a massively apathetic game with a clear 3 vote lead. Yeah, attitude's terrible and not helping town regardless (although frankly in her position I don't blame her for not suddenly gaining motivation), but it would be stupid of me to knowingly lynch someone who I think is town, even if bad town.
The scenario above is predicated on Rin also being town, which you can't actually know for sure. You are assuming Leia's alignment based on an assumption you've made about someone else's alignment. Yes, a scum Leia could want to prevent a town Rin from talking more, thus making her look worse tomorrow, by self-hammering, and this would seem to support your theory that Leia is town; however, a scum Leia would also want to make sure a scum Rin got some time to talk and shore up her own credibility before the day ended, which would act against your theory. As we don't actually know Rin's alignment, it is pointless to try to use this scenario to discern Leia's alignment either way. It relies on an unknown variable. If there are reasons to give Leia some slack, I don't think this is on the list. If you have other reasons to trust her, please elaborate. You can forgive her for being unmotivated? Very well, I can understand this to some extent. But Leia isn't unmotivated; she's self-destructive and trolling.
You should consider how much your trust of Rin is rooted in the fact that she shares your misgivings about me; I have personally been wondering whether I share a similar blind spot in regards to Helga and Houlihan (on account of their suspicion of Li). Remove that appealing convergence from Rin's posts (her two posts) and see what's left.
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Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 2
« on: September 17, 2010, 10:23:49 PM »
Mmf. And yet I find myself typing up my thoughts on everyone anyway. Will be brief and hope people request elaboration where desired; wall of textness just makes this game mind-numbing to read.
-Leia is topic du jour of the moment, yes. Not sure what it would take to move my vote off her right now (and I can imagine a lot). Would have to see evidence that she actually cares before considering it. But all we have right now is some taunting of the "I'm really not trying to inspire WIFOM right now OR AM I?" variety. Awful.
-Rin is who I'd look at next. See day 1, see the above posting.
-Li/Mai/Helga are in the "maybe" pile, in about that order of precedence. I have a variety of issues with each, just nothing as damning as the person my vote's sitting on right now. Bad arguments for Li, Mai has a Helga case that feels somewhat forced, day 1 for Helga along with a somewhat scattershot approach to cases that I otherwise agree with (for the record, I don't think Li deliberately missed out on deadline yesterday; I am willing to bet it simply occurred past his normal hours of consciousness). Can provide examples if desired; am trying to summarize as briefly as possible right now.
-Tanaka/Houlihan/Maya I have nothing solid on right now. Not sold on any one individual's towniness, I just have nothing much to build a case with here. Been a while since we heard from Houlihan, though; raises some minor worries about flying under the radar (which a scum Houlihan could think she'd get away with for a while, as she hasn't accrued much suspicion this game).
Around for a while if people have direct responses.
-Leia is topic du jour of the moment, yes. Not sure what it would take to move my vote off her right now (and I can imagine a lot). Would have to see evidence that she actually cares before considering it. But all we have right now is some taunting of the "I'm really not trying to inspire WIFOM right now OR AM I?" variety. Awful.
-Rin is who I'd look at next. See day 1, see the above posting.
-Li/Mai/Helga are in the "maybe" pile, in about that order of precedence. I have a variety of issues with each, just nothing as damning as the person my vote's sitting on right now. Bad arguments for Li, Mai has a Helga case that feels somewhat forced, day 1 for Helga along with a somewhat scattershot approach to cases that I otherwise agree with (for the record, I don't think Li deliberately missed out on deadline yesterday; I am willing to bet it simply occurred past his normal hours of consciousness). Can provide examples if desired; am trying to summarize as briefly as possible right now.
-Tanaka/Houlihan/Maya I have nothing solid on right now. Not sold on any one individual's towniness, I just have nothing much to build a case with here. Been a while since we heard from Houlihan, though; raises some minor worries about flying under the radar (which a scum Houlihan could think she'd get away with for a while, as she hasn't accrued much suspicion this game).
Around for a while if people have direct responses.
10
Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 2
« on: September 17, 2010, 09:46:18 PM »
Leia's trolling makes it basically impossible for me to move my vote off of her. Really, what else can we do with that? If it's not scum trying to provoke a lynch that seems destined to happen anyway, in order to end the day and short-circuit discussion...well, the only explanation I can think of for a townie Leia is that the player just wants out of the game. In which case the method of bringing this about warrants an intimate meeting with a sack full of doorknobs after this game's over, because seriously man.
Li: Attacking Rin for her post being delayed is, like a lot of suggested evidence you've brought up, inconclusive. I am personally a slow typer and take some time to organize my thoughts, so it's not hard for me to imagine a post taking longer than planned. The post did happen, within a couple hours. If it was half a day late or something, sure, that's cause for suspicion of delaying tactics on the player's part. A couple hours? Nitpicking, I think. I take issue with the content of the post that did turn up, instead. On that note--
Some inaccuracies in your post about me, Rin. Outlined after the quote:
A: I haven't been arguing with Maya today. I went out of my way not to argue with Maya today. I made one post quite clearly stating that I was responding to her arguments only because she expressly asked for such, and that it would be the last time I addressed those particular concerns. The only other time I've interacted with her today involved asking a simple question about an unrelated statement she made about Helga.
B: Speculation about scum hammering etc. was explicitly in response to Li doing the same. I was pointing out exactly what you just said--that it's useless and unreliable. Was this not clear? It's equally inaccurate to use this to define "most of my posts." It was a single paragraph.
C: Asking for a wall of text is a decidedly inelegant request. Ask me specific questions about specific people and I'll answer them. Asking me for a grand summary on everyone in the game? Bad form. What you are asking for is a trap. Such a request presents someone with a delicate balancing act that has no real chance of success--it demands too much of one's time to respond to criticisms and provide the requested material. Something is going to be left out, and when that happens you can add it to your case, such as it is.
Points A and B are things that are blatantly clear from my posts, I feel. Did anyone else actually find my meaning uncertain when I made those statements? Please consult them and let me know. Replies 62 and 64. It's difficult for me not to see Rin's use of plain mischaracterizations as anything but an attempt at provocation (attempting to resurrect the sordid day 1 catfight via point A, I think). Coupled with low her presence and parroting day 1, I would be glad to vote for her right now were Leia not so busy inspiring concussions via headdesking.
Li: Attacking Rin for her post being delayed is, like a lot of suggested evidence you've brought up, inconclusive. I am personally a slow typer and take some time to organize my thoughts, so it's not hard for me to imagine a post taking longer than planned. The post did happen, within a couple hours. If it was half a day late or something, sure, that's cause for suspicion of delaying tactics on the player's part. A couple hours? Nitpicking, I think. I take issue with the content of the post that did turn up, instead. On that note--
Some inaccuracies in your post about me, Rin. Outlined after the quote:
but most of your posts were either further arguments with Maya, or some speculation as to whether scum would want to hammer a townie at the end of D1 or further perpetuate a tie (fairly pointless imho, not to mention so prone to interpretation that it basically falls apart completely). So yeah. A bit more commentary, something on the scale of Maya's post about everyone-that-was-not-you would be nice, thanks. Much appreciated.
A: I haven't been arguing with Maya today. I went out of my way not to argue with Maya today. I made one post quite clearly stating that I was responding to her arguments only because she expressly asked for such, and that it would be the last time I addressed those particular concerns. The only other time I've interacted with her today involved asking a simple question about an unrelated statement she made about Helga.
B: Speculation about scum hammering etc. was explicitly in response to Li doing the same. I was pointing out exactly what you just said--that it's useless and unreliable. Was this not clear? It's equally inaccurate to use this to define "most of my posts." It was a single paragraph.
C: Asking for a wall of text is a decidedly inelegant request. Ask me specific questions about specific people and I'll answer them. Asking me for a grand summary on everyone in the game? Bad form. What you are asking for is a trap. Such a request presents someone with a delicate balancing act that has no real chance of success--it demands too much of one's time to respond to criticisms and provide the requested material. Something is going to be left out, and when that happens you can add it to your case, such as it is.
Points A and B are things that are blatantly clear from my posts, I feel. Did anyone else actually find my meaning uncertain when I made those statements? Please consult them and let me know. Replies 62 and 64. It's difficult for me not to see Rin's use of plain mischaracterizations as anything but an attempt at provocation (attempting to resurrect the sordid day 1 catfight via point A, I think). Coupled with low her presence and parroting day 1, I would be glad to vote for her right now were Leia not so busy inspiring concussions via headdesking.
11
Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 2
« on: September 17, 2010, 11:04:01 AM »
Gutchecks don't get much mileage with me, so Leia's vote for Tanaka isn't helping her a great deal. The sliminess was clearly intentional as well and there will be sadfaces if he drops character completely. So I can't say I agree with that case or find that it improves her image markedly.
There's always cause to link that video. Anyway, off again, back during normal hours.
Yes your OBVIOUS HIDING TRICKS are OBVIOUS kthx, need I relink to that completely hilarious video to summarize my stance?
There's always cause to link that video. Anyway, off again, back during normal hours.
12
Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 2
« on: September 16, 2010, 10:41:48 PM »
I find myself agreeing with Houlihan a fair bit, and Helga for at least the main case she's made. Helga's posting for the first time near the end of the day and not commenting on things at all was bad (even for a replacement player), but the case on Li sums up my feelings well enough that I'll give her a pass for now. I'm also not really seeing Mai's problems with her post. Day one inactivity? Yes, a valid charge. I have misgivings about the rest, however.
A lot? She said it once. And while lack of presence isn't really something I'd charge Li with either (he might not say much I agree with, but he's definitely been here and been getting attention), the above looks like you're building the comment up into a bigger deal than it actually is by emphasizing it. Unless you're including her dismissal of your day one material in your analysis as well (slight touch of OMGUS here?) In which case...To some extent, I can see how one would get that impression of you. Your main points were against me (talked about by many others), and Chiaki/Tanaka, which worked itself out more thoroughly later. It's not real hard for you to blur a bit, given that.
There's some merit to your complaint, but ultimately I find hard to hold any of the highlighted statements as a major strike. Neutral read on Helga in the end. Making a case that looks good to me vs. day one and some minor points. One more thing on her, though:
We agree that leaving looks bad, but I admit to some curiosity here: would it be better or worse if Helga hadn't outright said she was leaving and just sort of slimed away? I don't really see the manner of how she expressed her departure to be something worth holding against her. I don't see much point in mentioning it either way.
Ninja'd by modprods, aghl. Well, I'll be around off and on for a few hours. I'll wait and see if anything comes from it in the near future.
Quote from: HelgaTalk about trying to fly under the radar, right?
Yeah, Helga brought this up a lot against people who it clearly does not apply against, the only person who would fit this criteria that she discusses is Leia. I am also willing to consider voting Leia for lurking as well! But Helga seems clearly worse at this point, she's slinging a lot of mud in attempt to paint the situation as something that it is not.
A lot? She said it once. And while lack of presence isn't really something I'd charge Li with either (he might not say much I agree with, but he's definitely been here and been getting attention), the above looks like you're building the comment up into a bigger deal than it actually is by emphasizing it. Unless you're including her dismissal of your day one material in your analysis as well (slight touch of OMGUS here?) In which case...To some extent, I can see how one would get that impression of you. Your main points were against me (talked about by many others), and Chiaki/Tanaka, which worked itself out more thoroughly later. It's not real hard for you to blur a bit, given that.
There's some merit to your complaint, but ultimately I find hard to hold any of the highlighted statements as a major strike. Neutral read on Helga in the end. Making a case that looks good to me vs. day one and some minor points. One more thing on her, though:
Helga is rude. Undeniably. Very bad grace to skip day one entirely, especially such a short day one, and worse for being so frank about it.
We agree that leaving looks bad, but I admit to some curiosity here: would it be better or worse if Helga hadn't outright said she was leaving and just sort of slimed away? I don't really see the manner of how she expressed her departure to be something worth holding against her. I don't see much point in mentioning it either way.
Ninja'd by modprods, aghl. Well, I'll be around off and on for a few hours. I'll wait and see if anything comes from it in the near future.
13
Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 2
« on: September 16, 2010, 09:47:31 PM »One point I want to raise about Leia, since it's come up - if we're to consider the idea of her ignoring the 4-way-tie entirely to avoid tipping the scale, are we assuming that it was Town/Town/Town/Town?
I'm not reading that much into the situation yet. Not enough information. Your supposition is likely based on the assumption that scum wouldn't want to be seen hammering a townie, but this isn't something I'd trust as an axiom. I'm merely working off the general notion that noncommittal = scummier than making a decision that people can later sift through for information.
I do find it a tad odd that you'd make the above suggestion since by inference it would make you town, as you were included in the tie vote yesterday. There is little value in someone touting their own towniness, even indirectly, and actually tends to make them look worse. I can't help but want to take a closer look at someone after seeing this kind of sideways, "Look, this is proof I'm town," business. It just fills space and isn't helpful.
And Li, I personally have trouble giving Rin much slack due for claims of RL/connection issues. Yes, these things actually happen, but: they can happen to scum just as well as town; we have no way of verifying any of the claims made; it's a great excuse for scum to keep lurking when it's taken at face value. I hate slamming someone for inaction when they claim RL issues, but such claims really don't tell us anything useful or reliable. So I take it as a null read and ignore it either way. And without that in her favor? Rin's observations are very thin on the ground, moreso than anyone but Leia.
14
Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 2
« on: September 16, 2010, 09:13:15 PM »
Maya, why do you keep a morningstar in your office? Never mind, I don't want to know.
To your recent posts: I didn't mention you today because I saw no point in doing so. The discussion is not going to produce any more of worth than it did yesterday. I did get home just in time for the extended sudden death and start replying to it all, but hammer happened before I could post and when day two got here I decided it was better to let it lie. There's also this:
Very much so. I don't believe you're capable of being objective about me any more. It's neither reasonable nor healthy to be as rock-hard convinced about someone day one as you were about me. I have been in your shoes before and recognize all the signs of the obsessed townie. Probably as you're reading this post there's that hot, tense feeling in your chest, elevated heartrate, that screaming rage in your head yelling, "It's plain as day she's scum, why won't anyone else see reason?" This is what's now doing your thinking for you.
You are talking about other people now, which is good, and I may respond to that once I've reviewed some stuff. But as to your earlier charges against me, there is nothing I can say that will convince you that my day one silliness and blundering was anything but a disastrous attempt at playing in-character during a jokevote phase which apparently ended without anyone notifying me. So I won't bother responding to any of that material. The more of my limited free time I spend fruitlessly trying to debate a fanatic, the less of it I can spend on actually looking for scum. I have rereading and other people to look at right now.
To your recent posts: I didn't mention you today because I saw no point in doing so. The discussion is not going to produce any more of worth than it did yesterday. I did get home just in time for the extended sudden death and start replying to it all, but hammer happened before I could post and when day two got here I decided it was better to let it lie. There's also this:
So I'm guessing that my position is probably also being harmed by my tunnel-vision.
Very much so. I don't believe you're capable of being objective about me any more. It's neither reasonable nor healthy to be as rock-hard convinced about someone day one as you were about me. I have been in your shoes before and recognize all the signs of the obsessed townie. Probably as you're reading this post there's that hot, tense feeling in your chest, elevated heartrate, that screaming rage in your head yelling, "It's plain as day she's scum, why won't anyone else see reason?" This is what's now doing your thinking for you.
You are talking about other people now, which is good, and I may respond to that once I've reviewed some stuff. But as to your earlier charges against me, there is nothing I can say that will convince you that my day one silliness and blundering was anything but a disastrous attempt at playing in-character during a jokevote phase which apparently ended without anyone notifying me. So I won't bother responding to any of that material. The more of my limited free time I spend fruitlessly trying to debate a fanatic, the less of it I can spend on actually looking for scum. I have rereading and other people to look at right now.
15
Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 2
« on: September 16, 2010, 01:13:51 AM »
Two people stand out right now:
-Li, for making a case on Houlihan that doesn't make any sense to me. I could kind of follow it up until the wild speculation, where reading too much into things that can't be supported with other evidence commences. Point A even applies just as well for townie Houlihan since...well, that's just basic scumhunting he's describing there. "Lynch someone who can't adequately justify their actions." Point B is forging into conspiracy theory territory and I don't see anything to back it up.
-And, seconding Houlihan on Leia here. A couple hours before deadline with a four-way tie and her only input is a vote that doesn't try to affect the situation in any significant way. A vote I disagree with, too. Tanaka looks fine to me; the case on Chiaki was justifiable for the time. I do have to pull this out and throw it at him:
Because I can't tell what it actually means. It seems like a contradiction. Just something I don't understand in context, though, doesn't really jump out as suspicious. Elaborate, Tanaka?
Also, some of you people keep throwing around acronyms I don't know. RVS? SNR?
##Vote: Leia for now, anyway. For ignoring a close race near deadline and otherwise adding nothing to the day.
-Li, for making a case on Houlihan that doesn't make any sense to me. I could kind of follow it up until the wild speculation, where reading too much into things that can't be supported with other evidence commences. Point A even applies just as well for townie Houlihan since...well, that's just basic scumhunting he's describing there. "Lynch someone who can't adequately justify their actions." Point B is forging into conspiracy theory territory and I don't see anything to back it up.
-And, seconding Houlihan on Leia here. A couple hours before deadline with a four-way tie and her only input is a vote that doesn't try to affect the situation in any significant way. A vote I disagree with, too. Tanaka looks fine to me; the case on Chiaki was justifiable for the time. I do have to pull this out and throw it at him:
I don't really like the case on Tron but I do like the fact that there is a case on Tron,
Because I can't tell what it actually means. It seems like a contradiction. Just something I don't understand in context, though, doesn't really jump out as suspicious. Elaborate, Tanaka?
Also, some of you people keep throwing around acronyms I don't know. RVS? SNR?
##Vote: Leia for now, anyway. For ignoring a close race near deadline and otherwise adding nothing to the day.
16
Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 1
« on: September 14, 2010, 11:03:06 AM »
Ah yes, Mai. The good old accuse-someone-of-things-and-then-criticize-them-for-being-defensive-when-they-respond-to-the-accusations strategy. I do so loathe it when self-defense is used as a scumtell. Damned if you, damned if you don't. I figured I may as well be damned if I did because silence, lack of response, is worse in my eyes. And I changed my vote in part because people obviously wanted more material from me, yes (though Chiaki's noncommittal stance now tempts me to change my mind again). Also because I actually did need to look at someone else.
Li's "Of course my case is weak, it's day one" is pretty meh. Have to run right now though, and will not be around for deadline. Don't see many better places for my vote to sit right now, so.
Li's "Of course my case is weak, it's day one" is pretty meh. Have to run right now though, and will not be around for deadline. Don't see many better places for my vote to sit right now, so.
17
Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 1
« on: September 14, 2010, 03:00:50 AM »What annoys me about Miss Bonne's play is that she says 'You people are pressing too hard too early!' and proceeds to leave her random vote on Chiaki. She then offers a post in which she explains that people are overreacting...and offers no alternative case for people to consider.
Attributing way too much to one stray line here, mister. I want you to do a couple things here:
A: Find where I actually said there was something wrong with a three-vote pileup.
B: Find something else that was worth commenting on at the time I said that. You know, something in the whopping five posts made before that one.
Is it really hard to imagine I'd just be surprised about the first three votes in the game being for the same person? Find me another game where that happened in as short a time as it did here. Sure, it might not mean anything, but I thought it was unusual enough to be noteworthy. Also--and I can't stress this enough--more than half the players hadn't spoken up yet. Did somebody post a sign that said "Serious business starts here" and I missed it? I'm really kind of astonished that this is being made into a case and I think it's a testament to how little is being said by the group in general.
Li's actually bugging me a bit here--he picks up on something other people (Houlihan and Maya) have said, repeats it with minor variations, then doesn't act on it. He kind of leaves it there in the background to come back to later if it's advantageous to do so. In case there comes an obvious time to join a train later, he can always point back and say, "No, I was always part of that case."
I'm also not liking how Maya's latched onto it. "Stifling votes." I am really surprised at how much you can get out of one line. This looks like spin to me. "Over dramatic self defense" I take as an indicator that the facetiousness of characterization is being taken poorly. Unfortunate, but I suppose it needs to stop now.
I'd argue that calls for activity are never pointless, and that we might not have so many lurkers here if we had more people leaning on them. I left my vote on someone who hadn't spoken for some time, and whose original vote had gathered others. I thought it might be useful to see his reaction to events. If we don't give the quiet ones reason to speak up, they can easily get away with not doing so. Who's getting the votes right now? The vocal players. But very well. If you want something else, Maya:
##Unvote: Chiaki
##Vote: Li whatshisface
For the opportunistic soft prod.
18
Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 1
« on: September 13, 2010, 11:43:28 PM »
You're right--you should have known! I still think it's silly to make such a big deal over one line that happened when most of the group hadn't so much as popped their ugly heads in, but I agree there's not enough happening. Really, where are all you bums? I want to vote for someone for better reasons than you've all given me so far. Get back here and screw up so I can vote for you for it! Anyone who's not talking much makes me think they've got something to hide, but that's most of you.
Something tells me people who don't talk at all won't live very long, though...So I guess I can only leave my vote where it is right now. Chiaki hasn't come back to react since people started following his lead, and he totally should. I guess it's all I've got to go with right now.
Something tells me people who don't talk at all won't live very long, though...So I guess I can only leave my vote where it is right now. Chiaki hasn't come back to react since people started following his lead, and he totally should. I guess it's all I've got to go with right now.
19
Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 1
« on: September 13, 2010, 09:06:51 PM »
Wow, you make one silly comment to fill space waiting for the rest of the group to show up and BAM, everyone just falls on you for it. You guys thought I was making a serious argument for the sixth post of the game? Really? Wow, are you clueless! Especially you, blondie! Not wanting to wage the war? Oh, please! Nobody told me it was serious business time already.
I was just surprised to see everybody vote for one person so quickly. Although I guess there's not much else to talk about so far.
How about two three-person pileups at the start of the first day, huh? (Don't look at me like that. It's still the start of the first day as long as there's barely one page worth of comments here!)
I know, right? I mean, it's not like I like Megaman or anything. I just want him to realize what a useless load he's shacked up with. It's an act of charity!
I was just surprised to see everybody vote for one person so quickly. Although I guess there's not much else to talk about so far.
Because a three person pile up at the start of day one is null, and frankly positive in this case if it convinces Asuka not to play silly buggers in German all game. I know you weren't planning to, Asuka, but don't. Shadows on the wall, Tron.
How about two three-person pileups at the start of the first day, huh? (Don't look at me like that. It's still the start of the first day as long as there's barely one page worth of comments here!)
WHY IS TRON BONNE ON THIS GAME? SHE'S CERTAINLY NOT A TSUNDERE!! um
I know, right? I mean, it's not like I like Megaman or anything. I just want him to realize what a useless load he's shacked up with. It's an act of charity!
20
Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 1
« on: September 13, 2010, 04:16:15 AM »
All you guys are really quick to vote for the same person. It's weird. And most people aren't even here yet!
21
Forum Games / Re: Tsundere Mafia - Day 1
« on: September 12, 2010, 10:06:26 PM »
Hey, what crazy language is that? I don't understand that at all! Speak English, you non-English-speaking person! I'd vote for you right now for wasting everyone's time blabbing on in a language they don't understand...but someone else beat me to it! And stealing my ideas is even more unforgivable!
##Vote: Chiaki
##Vote: Chiaki
23
Forum Games / Re: Cthulu Mafia - Day 1
« on: April 20, 2010, 05:00:26 PM »
((I _did_ say to get on with the lynching, yes. Y'all might as well take the rest of IRL-today to think over the real suspects.))
24
Forum Games / Re: Cthulu Mafia - Day 1
« on: April 20, 2010, 03:22:27 PM »One, the theatrics. You done a good job of lookin' all fed up 'n shit, but a bottle that's empty o' whiskey does nothin' but get my hopes up and dash 'em when I find out. Gettin' all worked up about being in the crosshair's can come from frustration or from falsehood, an' as far's I'm concerned it don't help you none either way."Ya'll fin' out enough t'dash yer hopes in a bit, don't ya worry." ((The flavor text was largely just to drop some hints as to the nature of my being bulletproof, cuz I felt like it.))
Second, I just don't get the way you think, specially's bout Moses. Don't think I's much for Handley's take on it either. The ol' man goes into too much detail, which gets'im in yer sights, and then ye just don't let go. And now we're all fallin' for Moses' trap? Based off a what? If'n you'll recall, Moses done addressed your concerns while checkin' around the fiel--"Oh? Now tha's news. All's I've seen's dodgin', an' accusin' Bill to cover't up."
At the risk of entangling myself with someone I haven't read up on too deeply yet (lolxanth also going for speed now) If you're willing to concede that your suspicion of ME was based off of being ignorant of how long the "joke vote" phase tends to last in DL games, then it strikes me as pretty clear that your suspicion of Moses falls into the same trap.((The reasons for my minor suspicion of you and my significant suspicion of him are very different, not even accounting for the fact that his accusation came a page later.))
Furthermore, when you get an idea like that in your head, you just won't let go of it--assuming you ARE town, it took quite a bit of convincing to even get you to do 5 minutes of browsing other mafia games to get this notion out of your head. This stubbornness may not be scummy but it's pretty bad town play.((I do agree I should've looked them up earlier; I just found it unlikely enough that more than one or two random accusations would be necessary to start serious discussion, in any game, that I didn't think it'd be different here. Still doesn't mean I think Bike's vote was a joke vote nor that I'll forgive the appeal to secret canon, just that it's more plausible his vote was a joke vote.))
"[Callahan] did draw my attention when he tried to piggyback onto my first sale of the day, when he clearly didn't in any solid sense upon looking at the official court records. I would still say that what happened between Moses and I was a matter of trust, in which I did not trust the man. Tyrone is attributing Moses' behavior during the day in a much more sinister light than that even, and it doesn't quite pass inspection, maybe even voids the warranty. It's stubborn and argumentative through and through. While Chad might just be right in that it may not help town either way, there isn't much in the way that does that has support at this point.((I noticed the core of your argument well before you did, as I've already said; I was just in less of a position to be able to argue it since it might've seemed hypocritical coming from me (after what seemed like an asspull earlier), so I was hoping someone else would pick up on it and continue from there. And you did. Wasn't after-the-fact piggybacking, more like premeditated.))
Bulletproof huh? Like wearing a vest, I see...well if yer tellin' the truth, then that aint gonna help us out 'cos they'll just shoot the rest of us instead. And if you're a liar, then you're a murderer. Either way, you aint much use to us right now 'cos that just puts the rest of us in danger. I'm happy with leavin' my vote where it is.((Yeah, being bulletproof is an advantage for the town when scum _doesn't_ know about it and wastes a night trying to kill the man. Now that I've announced it, it's no help.))
25
Forum Games / Re: Cthulu Mafia - Day 1
« on: April 20, 2010, 01:22:20 PM »
((Don't have any time for flavor right now, or even much content, literally running out the door in about 30 seconds. Hopefully will in an hour. Just reiterating the truth of what I said earlier: I don't have any real information. My role just makes me out to be the town bulletproof; can't prove that I'm not a mafia bulletproof (vig immune) with the information given in my PM. Sounds like other PMs were much more informative; maybe that's part of why I've been so distrustful of Moses' usage of his PM -- gotta run