FIT- winners round. (No one wins with light.)

[superaielman]

Orlandu 5, Gilbert 4 (Neph tiebreak)
Orlandu 0, Royce 10
Orlandu 6, Ellen 0

Gilbert 0, Royce 8
Gilbert 4, Ellen 0

Royce 2, Ellen 4

Orlandu: 2-1
Royce: 2-1
Ellen: 1-2
Gilbert: 1-2

Oulan 0, Imoen 5
Oulan 4, Tellah 6
Oulan 9, Nana 1

Imoen 0, Tellah 5
Imoen 5, Nana 0

Tellah 5, Nana 6 (Dune tiebreak)

Tellah: 2-1
Imoen: 2-1
Nana: 1-2
Oulan: 1-2

Mario 1, Jean 9
Mario 3, Saturos 4
Mario 0, Neifirst 5
Mario 6, Gilder 1

Jean 0, Saturos 6
Jean 0, Neifirst 4
Jean 5, Gilder 1

Saturos 0, Neifirst 4
Saturos 3, Gilder 0

Neifirst 4, Gilder 0

Neifirst: 4-0
Saturos: 3-1
Jean: 2-2
Mario: 1-3
Gilder: 0-4

Eileen>Feraligatr>Vahn>Diego

Eileen: 3-0
Fera: 2-1
Vahn: 1-2
Diego: 0-3
============

TimeLord (Saga) vs Ghaleon (Lunars)
Lambda Zellweger (WA4) vs Royce (Lunar:SSSC)
Tir (Suikos) vs Orlandu (FFT)
Profound Darkness (PS4) vs Violetta (G3)

Garland (FF9) vs Tana (FE8)
Id (XG) vs Neifirst (PS2)
Momo (BoF3) vs Maxim (Lufia 2)
Claude (SO2) vs Saturos (GS)

Beowulf (FFT) vs Scythe (WA4)
Nergal (FE7) vs Eileen (S1)
Jeane (Suikos) vs MOMO (XSs)
Sania (AtLC) vs Feraligatr (PKMN)

Melody (WA3) vs Imoen (BGs)
Peco (BoF3) vs Tellah (FF4)
Mint (ToP) vs Cleo (S1)
Camus (S2) vs Roger (SO3)

[superaielman]

TimeLord (Saga) vs Ghaleon (Lunars)- Good news: TL can timeleap till he's blue in the face and gain some extra actions on Ghaleon! Bad news: Ghaleon HP.
Lambda Zellweger (WA4) vs Royce (Lunar:SSSC)- Don't think Lambda can complete the blitz.. I think I voted this way last time? Good fight.
Tir (Suikos) vs Orlandu (FFT)- MP busting.
Profound Darkness (PS4) vs Violetta (G3)- Doubt Violetta has the staying power for this.

Garland (FF9) vs Tana (FE8)- Exists before autohaste, so he has the speed/status to pull this off.
Id (XG) vs Neifirst (PS2)- More kneejerk speed respect, though the HP difference makes this interesting.
Momo (BoF3) vs Maxim (Lufia 2)- Tenatively assuming Momo can't OHKO in time.
Claude (SO2) vs Saturos (GS)- Massively outslugs.

Beowulf (FFT) vs Scythe (WA4)- Doubt Beo OHKOs, and he needs to here.
Nergal (FE7) vs Eileen (S1)
Jeane (Suikos) vs MOMO (XSs)

Melody (WA3) vs Imoen (BGs)- Abstain for now.
Peco (BoF3) vs Tellah (FF4)- Sleep/Tellah HP.

[Nephrite]

TimeLord (Saga) vs Ghaleon (Lunars) - Boss Timelord.
Lambda Zellweger (WA4) vs Royce (Lunar:SSSC) - I'll think about this one.
Tir (Suikos) vs Orlandu (FFT) - Can Orlandu void Darkness and ID at the same time? I think I see Tir as faster.

Garland (FF9) vs Tana (FE8) - Stop.
Id (XG) vs Neifirst (PS2) - Faster?
Momo (BoF3) vs Maxim (Lufia 2) - I will think about this one.
Claude (SO2) vs Saturos (GS) - Ha ha ha.

Beowulf (FFT) vs Scythe (WA4) - Maybe? Not sure.
Nergal (FE7) vs Eileen (S1) - Copper Flesh horribly owns Nergal.
Jeane (Suikos) vs MOMO (XSs) - Yep.
Sania (AtLC) vs Feraligatr (PKMN)

Peco (BoF3) vs Tellah (FF4) - Does something before he dies?
Mint (ToP) vs Cleo (S1) - This seems familiar for some reason...
Camus (S2) vs Roger (SO3) - MP Busting.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

To Neph: I don't think Orlandu can even block Dark elemental.

TimeLord (Saga) vs. Ghaleon (Lunars) - The durability difference is too lol.
Lambda Zellweger (WA4) vs. Royce (Lunar:SSSC) - I've seen this fight before.
Tir (Suikos) vs Orlandu (FFT) - Orlandu doesn't OHKO Tir's MP nor his HP. Tir should OHKO Orlandu just fine, though. Orlandu sucks against Godlike magical damage he can't resist.

Garland (FF9) vs Tana (FE8) - Evade makes stop something like borderline turn three? And Tana also risks one-turning herself. Good night and good luck.
Id (XG) vs Neifirst (PS2) - OHKOs.
Momo (BoF3) vs Maxim (Lufia 2) - Just... fucking buffs to fucking oblivion. Maxim can't stop that at all.

Beowulf (FFT) vs Scythe (WA4) - Beowulf is awful at dodging that limit range.
Nergal (FE7) vs Eileen (S1) - lol nergal.
Sania (AtLC) vs Feraligatr (PKMN) - Kneejerking this pretty badly. But Sania should be faster and Fera has no suitable options against her status.

Peco (BoF3) vs Tellah (FF4) - ...
Mint (ToP) vs Cleo (S1) - Sexy S1 physicals.
Camus (S2) vs Roger (SO3) - Uh.

[Cmdr_King]

TimeLord (Saga) vs Ghaleon (Lunars)
Lambda Zellweger (WA4) vs Royce (Lunar:SSSC)
Tir (Suikos) vs Orlandu (FFT)
Profound Darkness (PS4) vs Violetta (G3)

Garland (FF9) vs Tana (FE8)
Id (XG) vs Neifirst (PS2)- No vote.
Momo (BoF3) vs Maxim (Lufia 2)
Claude (SO2) vs Saturos (GS)- Uh... sure.

Beowulf (FFT) vs Scythe (WA4)- Beowulf can take a chunk out of Scythe's game, but... don't think he can handle the raw speed.
Nergal (FE7) vs Eileen (S1)
Jeane (Suikos) vs MOMO (XSs)
Sania (AtLC) vs Feraligatr (PKMN)- No vote.

Melody (WA3) vs Imoen (BGs)- No vote.
Peco (BoF3) vs Tellah (FF4)- ... Peco wasn't status immune, was he?
Mint (ToP) vs Cleo (S1)
Camus (S2) vs Roger (SO3)

[Random Consonant]

TimeLord (Saga) vs Ghaleon (Lunars) - Argleblargh.  Don't know TimeLord's boss form.
Tir (Suikos) vs Orlandu (FFT) - Unsure

Garland (FF9) vs Tana (FE8) - Fast enough for Tana to not double?  Think so.  Don't think that he's 2HKO'd by a Silver Lance
Momo (BoF3) vs Maxim (Lufia 2) - Has enough time to buff and kill on a double.  Maxim's not exactly threatening.
Claude (SO2) vs Saturos (GS) - Slaughter

Nergal (FE7) vs Eileen (S1) - ...yeah
Sania (AtLC) vs Feraligatr (PKMN) - Locks down with status.

Peco (BoF3) vs Tellah (FF4) - ...yeah
Mint (ToP) vs Cleo (S1) - ...yeah

[Talaysen]

TimeLord (Saga) vs Ghaleon (Lunars) - Yeah sure.
Lambda Zellweger (WA4) vs Royce (Lunar:SSSC) - Boom.
Tir (Suikos) vs Orlandu (FFT) - Splat.
Profound Darkness (PS4) vs Violetta (G3) - Good speed and damage, IIRC?  I think Violetta can handle this.

Garland (FF9) vs Tana (FE8) - Hmm, close one, I think.
Momo (BoF3) vs Maxim (Lufia 2) - Buffsmash.

Beowulf (FFT) vs Scythe (WA4) - I think Beowulf 2HKOs here?  Really don't think he OHKOs at least.  He probably just loses a slugfest even without Suction coming into play.
Nergal (FE7) vs Eileen (S1) - Owned.
Jeane (Suikos) vs MOMO (XSs) - I... think?
Sania (AtLC) vs Feraligatr (PKMN) - Status?  Sure.

Peco (BoF3) vs Tellah (FF4) - Uh.
Mint (ToP) vs Cleo (S1) - Pikohan~!
Camus (S2) vs Roger (SO3) - ...I don't even know.  Kneejerk.

[Monkeyfinger]

TimeLord (Saga) vs Ghaleon (Lunars)
Lambda Zellweger (WA4) vs Royce (Lunar:SSSC)
Tir (Suikos) vs Orlandu (FFT): Think I see S1 magic charges getting hit by MP busts in reverse order that they're gained, so while Orlandu can't get all of them in one hit... he can get all the L4s. ID immunity seals this shut.
Profound Darkness (PS4) vs Violetta (G3): Hm. Leaving the scythe at home, Violetta trades the physical damage out for runner. Violetta gets 2 turns. 2x burnblaze, kills form 1. PD wastes a turn shifting. Violetta tripleturns by doing runner first, then 2x burnblaze. Form 2 dies. PD wastes a turn shifting. Violetta gets 7 turns, taking one hit along the way. That's 5.25x PCHP. Even PD form 3 can't take that.

Garland (FF9) vs Tana (FE8): Less evade respect. Tana comes close with that OHKO due to killer damage respect, but... nah.
Momo (BoF3) vs Maxim (Lufia 2)

Beowulf (FFT) vs Scythe (WA4)
Nergal (FE7) vs Eileen (S1)
Sania (AtLC) vs Feraligatr (PKMN)

Melody (WA3) vs Imoen (BGs): Don't think she can take damage. On top of Imoen's damage being bad, it's all spread over multiple blows...
Peco (BoF3) vs Tellah (FF4): Protector + awesome HP to tank an L3 with.
Camus (S2) vs Roger (SO3)

[Pyro]

TimeLord (Saga) vs Ghaleon (Lunars): Very well then.
Lambda Zellweger (WA4) vs Royce (Lunar:SSSC): Uh. Yoinks.
Tir (Suikos) vs Orlandu (FFT): Works.
Profound Darkness (PS4) vs Violetta (G3): Too much offense with both actions (which... she really should get. SHe's clearly acting irregardless of whether the icon is the scythe or not)

Garland (FF9) vs Tana (FE8): Gamebest FE8 evade nerfs the status. Doubles and likely one-rounds.
Momo (BoF3) vs Maxim (Lufia 2): Don't think she can kill without something nasty on his side.

Beowulf (FFT) vs Scythe (WA4): Aegis Shield? Whatever.
Nergal (FE7) vs Eileen (S1): BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Jeane (Suikos) vs MOMO (XSs)

Peco (BoF3) vs Tellah (FF4): No thinking no thinking no thinking.
Mint (ToP) vs Cleo (S1): halved/nulled fire with something? I do not accept this.
Camus (S2) vs Roger (SO3)

[ThePiggyman]

TimeLord (Saga) vs Ghaleon (Lunars)
Lambda Zellweger (WA4) vs Royce (Lunar:SSSC)
Tir (Suikos) vs Orlandu (FFT)

Garland (FF9) vs Tana (FE8)

Beowulf (FFT) vs Scythe (WA4) - Abstain. Don't know if I see Scythe killing Beowulf. High Drain respect.
Nergal (FE7) vs Eileen (S1)
Jeane (Suikos) vs MOMO (XSs)

Peco (BoF3) vs Tellah (FF4) - Status = explodes.
Mint (ToP) vs Cleo (S1) - Uhh...

[Dark Holy Elf]

Lambda Zellweger (WA4) vs Royce (Lunar:SSSC): This remains an excellent fight, but it's also Lambda's preferred type of opponent. As I've mentioned before, I'd think about Lambda vs. Ghaleon if Ghaleon couldn't double act.
Tir (Suikos) vs Orlandu (FFT): Tir's MP >>> Orlandu's HP, relatively.
Profound Darkness (PS4) vs Violetta (G3): Maybe I should force her to waste a turn on formshifting. Or give Violetta more actions. Dunno.

Garland (FF9) vs Tana (FE8): FF9 damage does not rise appreciably between Garland and Kuja, so I am not seeing Garland's HP as good at all. Respect for Tana evasion as always carries the rest.
Momo (BoF3) vs Maxim (Lufia 2): Doesn't need IPs for buffs. Might x5 Speed x5 Momo crush with tripleturn insanity, and IP healing still sucks for the same reason Anastasia's FP healing does.

Beowulf (FFT) vs Scythe (WA4): Beowulf has trouble 2HKOing, let alone 1. Well, Shock! probably ensures a 2, but yeah, not good enough.
Nergal (FE7) vs Eileen (S1): Crushes with no need for Copper Flesh.
Jeane (Suikos) vs MOMO (XSs): Confuse bait, yeah.

Peco (BoF3) vs Tellah (FF4): Peco has no damage, and may even be slower? Ick. Tellah lands a status through Protectors in time.
Camus (S2) vs Roger (SO3): Don't think the non-Albel males got fire resist?

[Dark Holy Elf]

Just noticed this.

Re Garland,

Exists before autohaste

is completely untrue, you can get two pairs of Running Shoes before fighting him. One's from an optional boss (on Disc 2), but I can't see anything wrong with the second (Disc 3). I don't agree with scaling FF9 bosses against Auto-Haste regardless, but trying to claim Garland should get a pass there if you see the ability as relevant is a no-no.

[superaielman]

First set of running shoes I found on my last playthrough was from Hades or whatever his name was, so at the least I hold autohaste against the final three bosses. I didn't know there was another set earlier. I don't see any reason to not scale FF9 bosses against it, it's as fair as scaling them against the HP boost skills.

[Luther Lansfeld]

TimeLord (Saga) vs Ghaleon (Lunars)
Lambda Zellweger (WA4) vs Royce (Lunar:SSSC)
Tir (Suikos) vs Orlandu (FFT)
Profound Darkness (PS4) vs Violetta (G3)

Garland (FF9) vs Tana (FE8)
Id (XG) vs Neifirst (PS2)
Momo (BoF3) vs Maxim (Lufia 2)
Claude (SO2) vs Saturos (GS)

Beowulf (FFT) vs Scythe (WA4)
Nergal (FE7) vs Eileen (S1)
Jeane (Suikos) vs MOMO (XSs)
Sania (AtLC) vs Feraligatr (PKMN)

Melody (WA3) vs Imoen (BGs)
Peco (BoF3) vs Tellah (FF4)
Mint (ToP) vs Cleo (S1)
Camus (S2) vs Roger (SO3)

[Dark Holy Elf]

First set of running shoes I found on my last playthrough was from Hades or whatever his name was, so at the least I hold autohaste against the final three bosses. I didn't know there was another set earlier. I don't see any reason to not scale FF9 bosses against it, it's as fair as scaling them against the HP boost skills.

If you consider the ones from Hades, then you should also consider the ones from Tantarian, on Disc 2. And you should definitely consider the ones that are a reward for the (trivilally easy) Treno pit fight in Disc 3; those are the ones I remember getting. They're certainly the easiest in the game to get.

The debate on whether Auto-Haste should be factored in at all is a separate issue, naturally.

[Clear Tranquil]

Running Shoes can also be obtained from the clock in Quan's dwelling irrc.


Jeane (Suikos) vs MOMO (XSs -) *echoes Tal*


Melody (WA3) vs Imoen (BGs)) - Bad damage vs Barrier. No.
Camus (S2) vs Roger (SO3)

* First of all Roger's MP damage is HORRIBLE. Worst in the game - Star Fall is *really* badly nerfed by post game enemy elemental resistances. Only thing comparable in horribleness is Albel's Aura Wall against the same post game bosses >.> However it doesn't really matter considering that Camus is self destructing by self deleting MP all Roger has to do is poke with Piercing Claw/Bug Triad MP damage and then Camus dies.  If you take MP killing as viable that is.

* Second - Roger/Peppita/Sophia on a crafting line have waaayyy higher a success rate of crafting a Flare Ring than Albel does of crafting Elemental Leather (not that I disallow Elemental Leather, just saying >.>) Plus I allow Roger a Reflecting Plate with fire/ice absorb anyway so that's that.

*Third - Roger has Cliff like HP (the two best for HP actually) and above average DEF (no this does not matter for the Camus fight specifically but something to consider in general) Despite his non Charge/Land Mines damage sucking it's not like Roger is a massively easy slaughter. He's not that easy to kill >.>

*Fourth - If one allows Roger his Charge + Berserk for which he's known for being a real beast with in game he actually has damage!

Finally I personally allow Roger skill levelling in Land Mines so he has a high chance of dealing evil S03 confuse. On the other hand I don't usually allow Yellow Scarfs in Suikoden games. So unless Camus has some unique confuse blocker ... in which case bite me ^_~

Yes Roger fails in the DL compared to the rest of the S03 cast - however this does not equate to him being complete and utter fail (character aside) in a duel like a Puny in Light or something. He's not a bad Light.

[Meeplelard]

TimeLord (Saga) vs Ghaleon (Lunars): This fight seems familiar <_<
Lambda Zellweger (WA4) vs Royce (Lunar:SSSC): Kneejerk says Lambda's getting WAAAAY too many turns for Royce here.
Tir (Suikos) vs Orlandu (FFT): Too much MP to get busted, avoids the OHKO, OHKOs or IDs back depending on how Orlandu equips.
Profound Darkness (PS4) vs Violetta (G3): Kneejerk.

Garland (FF9) vs Tana (FE8): Garland's durability isn't too hot, and his money move, Stop, hits Evade, so...yeah.
Id (XG) vs Neifirst (PS2): Kneejerk! They're practically the same boss <_<
Momo (BoF3) vs Maxim (Lufia 2): Momo buffs, heals, buffs, etc. until she can just blast past Maxim's range.
Claude (SO2) vs Saturos (GS): I think he does a little more damage than Saturos...just a little...

Beowulf (FFT) vs Scythe (WA4): Beowulf vs. Boss tends to end up this way.
Nergal (FE7) vs Eileen (S1): Pure damage against an S1 Earth Rune.
Jeane (Suikos) vs MOMO (XSs): Confusion spam.
Sania (AtLC) vs Feraligatr (PKMN): Too lazy to look up Sania, so abstain for now.

Melody (WA3) vs Imoen (BGs): Melody vs. Low Damage dealer.
Peco (BoF3) vs Tellah (FF4): Break should do Peco in.
Mint (ToP) vs Cleo (S1): Cleo should be able to take this with being much faster and all that.
Camus (S2) vs Roger (SO3): I dunno, CT; Flare Ring is an accessory which is completely different than normal equips, which feels like a major factor in his chance to beat Camus.

[Dhyerwolf]

TimeLord (Saga) vs Ghaleon (Lunars)- Ghaleon
Lambda Zellweger (WA4) vs Royce (Lunar:SSSC)- Royce. Royce gets the 3 attacks she needs.
Tir (Suikos) vs Orlandu (FFT)- Tir
Profound Darkness (PS4) vs Violetta (G3)- PD

Garland (FF9) vs Tana (FE8)- Unsure
Id (XG) vs Neifirst (PS2)- Id needs 3 attacks, Neifirst needs 2. So...Neifirst then has to be not be 3-2ed, so she has to be 133% speed. It's likely possible, so Neifirst.
Momo (BoF3) vs Maxim (Lufia 2)- Momo
Claude (SO2) vs Saturos (GS)- Uh...abstain.

Beowulf (FFT) vs Scythe (WA4)- Scythe
Nergal (FE7) vs Eileen (S1)- Eileen
Jeane (Suikos) vs MOMO (XSs)- MOMO
Sania (AtLC) vs Feraligatr (PKMN)- Sania

Melody (WA3) vs Imoen (BGs)- Tentative Imoen vote, but don't have a great handle on Melody's HP. Think Imoen can pump out about 1.3-1.4 PC HP even through the barrier. It just takes her forever, but it's Imoen versus someone who is purely ST Magic.
Peco (BoF3) vs Tellah (FF4)- Tellah
Mint (ToP) vs Cleo (S1)- Cleo. Original Mint doesn't have Fire res.
Camus (S2) vs Roger (SO3)- Camus. Roger wishes that he got after game equips (As do Cliff/Fayt) and Camus is faster.

[Monkeyfinger]

Melody (WA3) vs Imoen (BGs)- Tentative Imoen vote, but don't have a great handle on Melody's HP. Think Imoen can pump out about 1.3-1.4 PC HP even through the barrier. It just takes her forever, but it's Imoen versus someone who is purely ST Magic.

What does she even have that breaks the barrier that I'm missing?

[Dhyerwolf]

Pick any magic spell she has. A bit above half average damage easily gets something past the Barrier to me.

[superaielman]

Updating tomorrow.

[alanna82]

How is Tana's evade relavent to her being hit by Status? Status Staves in FE have their hit rate based on the users magic vs the targets RES. NOT targets Evasion. Tana's Res is only average.

TimeLord (Saga) vs Ghaleon (Lunars)- Ghaleon
Tir (Suikos) vs Orlandu (FFT)- Tir
Profound Darkness (PS4) vs Violetta (G3)- Profound Darkness

Garland (FF9) vs Tana (FE8)- Garland, see top of post for reasoning
Momo (BoF3) vs Maxim (Lufia 2)- Maxim, hes lucky I allow storebought spells.
Claude (SO2) vs Saturos (GS)- Saturos


Nergal (FE7) vs Eileen (S1)- Eileen (how did Nergal make the finals anyway)
Sania (AtLC) vs Feraligatr (PKMN)- Sania


Peco (BoF3) vs Tellah (FF4)- Tellah
Mint (ToP) vs Cleo (S1)- Mint, Silence Cleo and she eventually wins due to Mint healing. Take like 2 hours though
Camus (S2) vs Roger (SO3) - Roger, MP busts Camus. Camus only gets one level 4 charge, so his good damage is gone.
 
 

[Ultradude]

How is Tana's evade relavent to her being hit by Status? Status Staves in FE have their hit rate based on the users magic vs the targets RES. NOT targets Evasion. Tana's Res is only average.

Garland's Stop spell apparently checks evasion, not res, for accuracy. Status accuracy is almost always considered on terms of what the user checks for accuracy with the particular spell, not on what lowers status rates in the games of the victims.

In return, any game where evasion checked all status attacks would have its characters forced into a resistance check if a FE staff user tried to status them, I guess.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

How is Tana's evade relavent to her being hit by Status? Status Staves in FE have their hit rate based on the users magic vs the targets RES. NOT targets Evasion. Tana's Res is only average.

Garland's Stop hits evasion, and FE8 sets a precedent for magical status that hits evade in Petrify as well. Don't see why it's unreasonable to see status getting hit by evade in that case, particularly when it's true in-game for both sides.