Blue Dragon

[Pyro]

Notes:

-Taking endgame level at 45. I'm giving everyone their starting class with class levels taken to 41. No, this set-up isn't very representative of in-game, but find me a better way and you get a cookie. I will say that no one person is screwed by this method (they all get something) and they all wind up somewhat neat in their own ways. Beats being all average. The classes are as follows:

Shu: Sword Master
Jiro: White Magic
Kluke: Black Magic
Marumaro: Monk. (Lvl 3 Sword/White/Black)
Zola: Assasin. (L6 Sword/White/Black)

-For the purposes of this topic, I'm assuming everyone has taken enough of Generalist to equip all of their class skills and one accessory. The accessory is only really relevant in that there is a storebought accessory that blocks petrification. This is an excessively minor issue but purists might want to limit them to three skills+Class skill only.

- The game allows you to "Charge" Monk attacks and all spells for greater effect. The effect ranges from what is listed at no charge and 2x that at full. The characters can use any level of charge in between (to act right before an enemy, for example). There is a "Sweet Spot" on the charge that lets you gain a bonus for landing in there. Spells will cost 75% of the normal MP expenditure, and supposedly decreases wait time for the next turn. Kluke's spells generally have the sweet spot at 50% charge unless otherwise noted. Maru's sweet spot is near full. It takes ~2/3rds of the time it would take to get your next turn to charge an attack to full.

-Equipment: Equips are listed as accessories, but they serve clear armor/weapon roles. They are universal with 3 exceptions that will be noted. Equips used in this topic are either storebought or unique. These aren't totally reflective of endgame (you pick up a haul of equips in sidequests/final dungeons), but they work well enough anyway.

-Relevant Storebought Equips. Assume everyone is using these unless otherwise noted:

Eternal Engine Bracelet: +165 Attack
Eternal Engine Ring: +160 Magic Attack
Eternal Engine Earring: +160 Magic Defense
Eternal Engine Necklace: +170 Defense
(Mithril Braclet: +50 Attack, +20 HP. Kluke wants this.)

(Special Accessory Stone Shoes: Resist Earth and block Petrify. +30 HP)

-Corporeal Attacks: If a character has taken/dealt enough damage, he or she will gain enough Tension to be able to use a Corporeal attack. These are ITE non-elemental damages ala limits. They generally do ~2500 damage, so they should kill by a good margin. Barring a battle that drags out for a massive amount of time or one in which the targetted character does a whole, whole lot of healing, these shouldn't come up, and I'm not going to include them in a damage average. The game very deliberately sets this to 0 for every battle, so no starting half-full or any such thing.



Shu: "I won't give up!" I won't give up! I won't give up!" Ad nauseam
HP: 583
MP: 251
Defense: 315
M.Defense: 196
Agility: 71

Skills:
Absorb HP: Heals him for 25% of the damage he inflicts with a normal physical.
Boost Critical damage: Critical hits do more damage.
Absorb MP: Heals his MP for 25% of the damage inflicted with a normal physical.
Mow Down 2: Using this command attacks the enemy front row for his basic physical's damage.
Magic Sword: Lets him use the Magic Sword skillset. Class innate skill.


Attack: 350 physical damage. Drains 25% to HP and 25% to MP (80)
Mow Down: 350 physical damage to the enemy front row.

Magic Sword: Skillset is not usable when silenced (other physical skills are)

Flarus Sword (25MP) : 800 physical damage to a target, 2/3rds of which is fire damage.
Waterus Sword (25MP): 700 physical damage to a target, 2/3rds of which is water damage.
Windus Sword (25MP): 700 physical damage to a target, 2/3rds of which is wind damage.
Groundus Sword (25MP): 800 physical damage to a target, 2/3rds of which is earth damage. Low chance of petrification? I haven't seen it.
Shadowus Sword (25MP): 1000 physical damage to a target, 2/3rds of which is shadow damage. Low chance of ID? I haven't seen it.
Erase Sword: 350 physical damage. Dispels targets positive buffs.
Shina Sword: Chance of stun and damage to undead only.

Comments: Solid. Multible damage options and his best isn't a commonly resisted element. Dispel for a pinch and even some scrubby HP/MP draining!



Jiro: "We need to think of a plan"
HP: 523
MP: 402
Defense: 249
M.Defense: 217
Agility: 49

Skills:
Ressurect: Upon dying for the first time in a battle, Jiro will automatically rise up with fully restored HP and MP. Once per battle only.
Enhance Item Effect: Items used by Jiro have 1.5x the effectiveness they otherwise would.
Double Item: Jiro may use two items in one round.
Quick Magic Charge: Cuts charge time by 50%.
White Magic: Lets Jiro use White Magic. Class innate Skill.

Physical: 258 physical damage.

Spells:
Heal (6MP): Restores 268 HP to the target. Amount increases with Charge.
Cure Poison (8MP): Cures the target of poison. Can be made GT with Charge.
Shine (9MP): Chance of stun and damage to undead.
Cure Kelolon (10MP): Cures the target of the Kelolon status effect (think Imp/toad). Can be made GT with Charge.
Zephyr (12MP): Heals the entire party for 260 HP. Amount increases with Charge.
Regenerate (10MP): Adds 4% HP regen This regen takes effect about 1.5x a round. Can be made GT with Charge.
Heala (12MP): Restores 306 HP to the target. Amount increases with Charge.
Revive (25MP): Revives the target with 280 HP. Amount increases with Charge.
Cancel (14MP): Cancels a charging enemies action. Can be made GT with Charge.
Cure Paralysis (20MP): Cures the target of paralysis. Can be made GT with Charge.
Zephyra (24MP): Heals the entire party for 290 HP. Amount increases with Charge.
Shina (22MP): Chance of stun and damage to the undead, MT.
Healus (24MP): Restores 420 to the target. Amount increases with Charge.
Regenera (28MP): Adds 10% HP regen. This regen takes effect about 1.5x a round. Can be made GT with Charge.
Erase (32MP): Dispels targets positive buffs. Can be made GT with Charge.
Zephyrus (48MP): Restores 320 HP to the entire team. Amount increases with Charge.
Cure-All (30MP): Cures the target of any status ailment. Can be made GT with Charge.
Previve (40MP): If Jiro is dies, he will automatically be revived for 560 HP. This takes priority over Ressurection, so if Jiro dies while both are in effect, Previve will be used first.

Double Item: (listed storeboughts only)
Ultra Medicine: Heals 200 (300) HP.
Ultra Magical Medicine: Heals 100 (150) MP.
Phoneix Talon: Revives Target who has been KO'd with 50% HP.
Status curing Items: Can cure poison, stink, paralysis, confusion, Kelolon, Petrification, sleep/confuse/stun (MT), and Zombie/Ghost.
Stout Garlic: Heals 250 (375) HP and adds Stink (attracts enemies on the field).

Comments: Egads, the healing. So much healing. He can heal for ages, and then he can get killed, come back with full MP, and do it again. And thats assuming you don't allow him Double-Item to heal his HP/MP at the same time. Short Charge means that he can make his healing full with little time wasted charging. His damage bites, but its worth noting that the tension meter that fuels the Corporeal attack doesn't reset upon being killed/revived, so he can abuse Previve and everything else to make sure he gets one. Pretty cool overall.



Kluke: "I'll take both!"
HP: 523
MP: 600
Defense: 254
M.Defense: 242
Agility: 51

Equipment Note: Kluke has a custom Shu's Ring with +150 Magic, +20 HP, and +9defense, and +5 Mdef. You're not guaranteed to get this stat spread but you can control it and this is probably best. She also wants the Mithril Bracelet for the HP boost over her physical damage.

Skills:
MP+50%: Increases Kluke's MP score by 50%
Black Magic: Lets Kluke use Black Magic. Class innate skill.


Physical: 110 physical damage.

Spells: Unless noted otherwise, Charging increases effectiveness to 2x.

Shadowus (48MP): 1100 magical darkness damage. Supposedly has a chance to ID but I haven't seen it do so on the PC version. Sweet spot is anywhere she wants it to be on this spell.
Flarus (24MP): 950 magical fire damage to one.
Waterus (40MP): 650 magical water damage to a row.
Groundus (56MP): 860 magical earth damage to all. Does not hit fliers.
Windus (32MP): 780 magical wind damage. Charge makes GT instead of increasing damage.
Extract (20MP): Absorbs 300 HP from a foe.
Extracta (10MP): Absorbs 300 MP from a foe. Enemies that have their MP reduced to 0 by this spell will be unable to use magic.
Extractus (30MP): Absorbs 300 HP and 300 MP from a foe. Enemies that have their MP reduced to 0 by this spell will be unable to use magic. Sweet spot is anywhere she wants it to be on this spell.

Comments: Kluke gets the cool job. She casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down. Unlike the FF1 Black Mage though, Kluke doesn't suck. In fact, she kinda kicks ass, with great damage and the ability to charge it on up. If you don't OHKO Kluke, you may very well be looking at overkill damage. Extractus can be used for healing and MP draining/busting, and it can be charged up to be full without too much trouble. Overall great, but the speed/durability hurt.



Marumaro: "Devee dance of SUICIDE!" (one could only wish)
HP: 604
MP: 211
Defense: 321
M.Defense: 160
Agility: 87

Skills:
Charged Attack: Maru can charge his basic physical to do up to 2x damage.
Attack Amp: Charging his attack also makes it GT.
Perfect Counter: Maro will always counter physical attacks directed at him (counter isn't chargable)
Meditate: Using this skill, Maro can heal 50% of his HP. He can charge the skill to make it full.
Less is More: Maro gets a stat bonus for every empty accessory slot he has. In this case, it just means he wants to forsake a ring in the DL. If he removes his other accessories, he will lose their stats (obviously), and will gain 18 ATK, 10 DEF, and 6 AGL per one removed.
Critical Hit Lift: Maru hits a critical more often with his attacks. Not really notable, but he crits about 25% of the time for 1.4x damage.
(White Magic 1 he starts with this skill in her list, if you allow it)
(Black Magic 1: he starts with this skill in her list, if you allow it)
(Sword Magic 1: he starts with this skill in her list, if you allow it)


Physical: 410 physical damage to a target. Can be Charged.

Meditation: Restores 50% MHP to Maru. Can be charged to be full.

Comments: Maru is an annoying little bastard, but he's fairly good. Fast with unsilenceable infinite healing that he can manipulate to be what he needs. Counters help him deal damage to physical foes, and he can rely on the infinite healing to see a Corporeal. If you allow the starting skills from other classes, he gets... some really scrubby magic/elemental damage and healing that is infinitely worse than Meditate. If he did want either of those to do anything, he would lose the Less is More bonus by equipping a ring.



Zola: "..."
HP: 592
MP: 225
Defense:
M.Defense:
Agility: 96

Equipment note: Zola uses the Royal's Ring, a unique equip for her. Atk+10, Def+5, Mag+145, MDef+5, Agility+5, HP+15, MP+15

Skills:
Long-Range Attack: Zola's attack ignores range, hitting any enemy row and enabling her to attack for normal damage from the back row.
Double-Strike: Zola attacks twice with the Attack command.
Control: Enables the use of Control.
Loot: Zola has a low chance of stealing an item from an enemy upon attacking.
Stun Bomb: Grants Zola's team initiative against enemies on the field. Works on some superbosses. DL-useless but I felt like noting it.
(White Magic 1 she starts with this skill in her list, if you allow it)
(Black Magic 1: she starts with this skill in her list, if you allow it)
(Sword Magic 1: she starts with this skill in her list, if you allow it)

Attack: 2 hits for 720 physical damage. Ignores range.

Control: Zola takes control of an enemy, 70% hit-rate. Controlled enemies are given an order on their turn while Zola keeps her own turn. Lasts until the enemy takes damage. Only one enemy can be controlled at a time.

Comments: Speedy gal with good damage. Whether or not you allow Control is up to you, obviously. It hits just about every random in the game. It doesn't necessarily mean an instant win for Zola, although it definitely helps. If you allow her starting skills for White/Black/Sword, she gets about 150 HP healing through Cure and some terrible elemental damage.


Averages:

HP: 565
Maru: 604
Zola: 592
Shu: 583
Kluke: 523
Jiro: 523

Damage: 698
Kluke's Shadowus: 1100
Shu's Shadowus Sword: 1000
Zola's Attack: 720
Maru's Attack: 410
Jiro's Attack: 258

Defenses seem to be straight-up subtraction.
Defense: 289
Maru: 321
Shu: 315
Zola: 310
Kluke: 254
Jiro: 249

Magic Defense: 204.4
Kluke: 242
Jiro: 217
Zola: 207
Shu: 196
Maru: 160



Agility: 70.8 (actual speed adds a constant of ~45)
Zola: 96 (~122%)
Maru: 87 (~114%)
Shu: 71 (100%)
Kluke: 51 (~83%)
Jiro: 49 (~81%)

[Dark Holy Elf]

Since Kluke and Marumaro can charge to do maximum damage with everything but their final turn, it probably makes sense to look at the 2-turn and 3-turn damage averages considering all but the last hit to be fully charged.

One-turn average: 698
Two-turn: 849
Three-turn: 899

Use whatever you wish.

I'll get boss stats when I'm feeling non-lazy.

[Pyro]

Zuh?

It takes ~2/3rds of a turn to charge up a hit to full. That implies, taking the advantage perfectly literally, a 20% increase in damage. How could the average rise by more than 20% if only two PCs out of 5 even get this ability?

[Dark Holy Elf]

Charging doesn't delay your next turn. This is kinda at the core of how black mages tear everything apart for most of the game! I'm way too used to "fast black mage fully charges -> still beats slightly slower non-charger next turn". So yeah, you only lose damage from charging on your last turn in the battle. Granted, in-game you can argue plenty against max charging from how much certain enemies will do to disrupt it (yay enemies with AI to paralyse/cancel people they see charging?) but in the DL, yeah, not buying that so much.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Bosses

All damage figures are listed as damage done to the boss. Due to varying powers on attacks it is difficult to get a good read on enemy defences, so I'm not bothering. Some bosses might be a bit more or less def-over-HP than my figures indicate as such.

Speed stats are estimates assuming Pyro is correct about his "speed+45 is linear" theory. For what it's worth, from testing it seems like a decent theory. Regardless... if bosses have recharge time gimmicks I'm not aware of the actual stat could be a bit off. HP stats are also estimates! Yeah I wish I had actual information on this game, but so it goes.

A note about Blue Dragon rows... generally speaking ST and RT (row target) enemy physical attacks only hit the front row, unless they are long range. Magical attacks can hit either row. However, if at any time the PC side has no living characters in the front row, all PCs will immediately and permanently jump into the front row. Enemies use the same row system and rules but none of the bosses here make use of multiple rows.

The vast majority of enemy attacks, as you will see, are physical. All physical attacks can critical, and most can miss... although not most of the MT ones, I think. On the missing note, I think all bosses have a -very- small chance to evade physical attacks... I saw one boss do it once in all the testing I did here.

Averages are just based on my setups at the time. I use lots of Black Magic because it's really powerful (worth noting: it was everyone's optimum damage for the disc 1-2 bosses, even PCs who were in fighter classes with some black magic levels). A more balanced approach would probably see PC durability a bit higher but PC damage much lower.

I take PC damage based on charging the bar halfway, for moves that can be charged. Seems simplest.


Szabo

Party stats:
Lv 21-22, HP 215, Def 100, MDef 106, Agl 39

Damage to Szabo (faces 4 PCs):
Attack: 75
Shadow: 64~160 (110)
Shadowa: 110~300 (205)
Average: ~180

I had three people using Shadowa and one with Shadow, here.

Szabo's stats:
~2000 HP, ~110 speed (185% average)
Immune to Earth

Attack: 120 physical damage dealt over 3 hits (checks def 3 times), long range
Dispelling Punch: 125 physical damage, dispels all positive status
Power Charging: Charge turn for Chest Laser
Chest Laser: 75 physical damage, MT, requires a charge turn

Summon: Summons two Security Mecha Robos. Debatably legal. These have around 300-400 HP and are weak to Water, they also take much more damage than Szabo does from magic attacks in general. OHKO-bait in a duel probably. Still, they act shortly after summoned, using:
-Attack: 25 physical damage
-Drill Attack: 35 physical damage
-Wallop: 50 physical damage. Needs half a turn to charge.

Comments: Well, he's certainly very fast, and has low 2HKO physical damage. Durability is... bit over PC, and you can't buff against him. He's not terribly scary in-game due to being essentially all ST (Chest Laser sucks) but he translates very well. Good Heavy.


Grand Szabo

Party stats:
Lv 31 (Kluke 28), HP 340, Def 185, MDef 146, Agl 59

Damage to Grand Szabo:
Flarus: 680
Shadowa: 460 (halved to 230)
Average: ~590

Physicals still suck by comparison. Three PCs had Flarus for me.

Grand Szabo's stats:
~2000 HP, ~110 speed (149% average). Skips his first turn.
Immune to Earth, halves Shadow

Grand Szabo starts with four Cannons surrounding his body. While any cannons live, he takes no damage from anything. The cannons can all be hit simultaneously by row attacks, and have about 600 HP. They all immune earth, one absorbs fire and one absorbs water.

Attack: 120 physical damage dealt over 3 hits (checks def 3 times), long range
Szabo All-Out Attack: 110 physical damage damage dealt over 5 hits, MT. Requires some (maybe all?) of the cannons alive.
Szabo Long-Range Cannon: 90 physical damage, long range
Szabo Short-Range Guns: 90 physical damage dealt over 4 hits, RT
Szabo's Spin Fire: 270 fire physical damage dealt over 3 hits (checks def 3 times). Requires a half-turn charge time. May have an HP trigger, likely can't be used with the cannons alive.

Comments: Szabo got a big downgrade, which kinda fits with disc 2 being a joke challenge-wise. The party got much stronger magic attack (as well as Flarus) so damage has spiked up, but all of Szabo's stats appear to be exactly the same! Well presumably he gained attack. Still, no dispel, and the damage is low 3HKO until he can access Spin Fire, which has a charge time, so it still might as well be 3HKO. He's still fast, but nowhere near as fast as before. Cannons buy him some time against those who lack MT, which completely saves him since he pretty much dies to average damage once they're gone. Weird, weird Middle.


Ultimate Szabo
 
Party stats:
Lv 44-45, HP 624, MP 284, Def 281, MDef 173, Agl 89

Damage to Ultimate Szabo:
Charged Attack: 650
Charged Double Attack: 1000
Charged Flarus Sword: 1050
Flarus: 1350 (two PCs have this for me)
Average: ~1080

Corporeal attacks (super attacks unlocked by building a tension gauge, which starts the battle at 0) do about 2300 or so. You get one about once every 5 rounds against Szabo's (extremely high) level of offence. Scale as you will.

Ultimate Szabo's stats:
~25000 HP, ~270 speed (235% average)

Ultimate Szabo has four "modes" which he can shift between. He starts the battle in Sai mode. There's no visual indication of what mode he is in until he uses an attack.

All modes
Mode Change: Changes his current attack mode. Szabo's next turn comes twice as fast.

Sai mode
Heat Press: 395 fire physical damage, MT

Mai mode
Blade Shield: 265 physical damage, RT

Kesu mode
Hundred Thrust: 250 physical damage, RT. Szabo's next turn comes twice as fast.

Ku mode
Double Special Shot: 290 physical damage, RT, dispels all positive status
Szavulcan: 615 physical damage dealt in 3 hits (checks def 3 times), long range
Full Charge Laser: 495 physical damage, MT. Can only be used once per mode shift. (Thank god.)

Comments: Szabo's boasts aren't empty, he's a total badass this time around. WA4 boss speed, great offence, and very solid durability by Blue Dragon standards (only one other previous boss even breaks 5 digit HP...). While Sai and Kesu modes have clear uses in-game (Mai mode not so much), he'll usually want to switch straight to Ku Mode in a duel and gain access to borderline OHKO damage with an option of dispel. High Godlike, his only flaw is being all physical. One could question the legality of the form (his body is made up of parts from other robots) but I'd personally be okay with it.


Nene

Party stats:
Lv 44-45, HP 624, MP 284, Def 281, MDef 173, Agl 89

Damage: See previous boss, except that Nene takes about 20% less from magic damage. (Average ~1080 before defence.)

Nene's stats:
~10000 HP, ~150 speed (146% average)
Immune to Shadow, 20% reduction to magic

Super-Strong Punch: Deathroy taunts you.
Maxtract: 55 magic damage, MT, drains HP to Nene.

With all the moves below, Nene can doubleact. He always begins with a physical attack, then uses a non-physical attack on the second half of his double.

Attack: 195 physical damage
Waterus: 135 water magic damage, RT
Groundus: 315 earth magic damage, MT
Shadowus: 485 shadow magic damage, chance of instant death (~1/3?)
Tempest: 325 magic damage, MT
Black Celebration: Inflicts every Blue Dragon status (petrify, paralysis, confuse, silence, sleep, poison, and kelelon/imp, panic) on one target. Individual statuses seem to land with independent ~80% chances or so, i.e. sometimes 1-2 will miss but it doesn't really matter, block status or die.

Comments: Attack+Shadowus kills average, and Black Celebration is evil against anything short of full status immunity. Fights involving him are short one way or another since the durability is only PCish, but with his speed and damage he cleans up far too much of Heavy. Low Godlike.


Ultimate Nene

Party stats:
Lv 44-45, HP 624, MP 284, Def 281, MDef 173, Agl 89

Damage: See Ultimate Szabo, except that Ultimate Nene takes about 30% less from magic damage. (Average ~1080 before defence)

Ultimate Nene's stats:
~15000 HP, ~180 speed (168% average)
Immune to Earth and Shadow, 30% reduction to magic

Nene uses his first turn to fully heal the party's HP and MP. What a pal. I can't tell if it is first strike with a lag time, or if he just gets his first turn at the normal time, but either way his first attacking turn comes when his second turn normally would. (i.e. slightly after the PCs get their first turn.)

Mist Killer: 460 wind magic damage dealt over 4 hits, MT
Zombie Inferno: 460 fire magic damage dealt over 4 hits, MT
Contintental: 460 earth magic damage dealt over 4 hits, MT, chance of poison. Poisoned PCs lose 25% max HP at certain intervals, about once per PC round. This can be fatal.
Cataract: 460 magic damage to MP dealt over 4 hits, MT. The animation is water, but it is non-elemental. This OHKOs average MP rather cleanly.

Shadow Bind: Seals the target's shadow. In-game, this strips the character of their skillset, passive abilities, and job-related stat boosts (notably dropping their MP to 0 unless they have some non-accessory equipment which boosts it), and empties their tension gauge, which basically turns the PC into OHKO-bait trash which isn't good for anything besides tossing items. Your call if this should have any effect on non-Blue Dragon PCs. The effect vanishes if the PC dies. Nene's next turn comes three times as fast.

Cancel Support: Dispels all opponents. Nene's next turn comes three times as fast.

Eternal Engine: Full healing, possibly a counter to being lowered to 0 HP but either way it resets his turn. After the first time Nene uses this, four support parts become visible, all in the same row as Nene, with bad HP (~1000). Nene and the parts appear to half damage while any part lives. Once they are killed, he will not be able to use Eternal Engine again.

Marbles: Summons two orbs, which have 1 HP each. The orbs are immune to MT and RT attacks. They don't take turns.
Marble Marble: Non-typed, drains 50 HP and 50 MP, MT. Can only be used if Nene has at least one orb present. Nene's next turn comes three times as fast.
Marble Storm: 260 non-elemental magic damage, MT. Can only be used if Nene has at least one support part present, and destroys the orb(s) if they are said support.

Comments: In some ways the opposite of his first form, this one is a bit slow to get started but is more durable, especially with the one shot of healing thrown in (which also forces the opponent to pull out some MT or feel pain). 2HKO magic damage or can wreck MP. There are some headaches involved with this form, i.e. is it legal and what your take on Shadow Bind is, but it should still end up some flavour of Godlike regardless, good overall at offence over time and effective durability.