Season 45, Week 4 - Racer Xorntoro and Speed Racer duke it out? What.

[VySaika]

Godlike

Myria (BoFs) vs Rubicant (FF4) - Shit, Rubi might just have a chance at this one. I'm gonna take a longer look at this one. I don't just want to kneejerk for Myria if Rubi has a legitimate shot.
Xorn (G3) vs Nate Nanjo (Pers) - No vote. Need to finish G3.

Heavy

Red (Saga) vs T260G (Saga) - Same game, better at it. This is nothing but a pure slugfest and T2 has more durabiliy, is faster, and more damage after V-Max. Simple as that.
Ayla (CT) vs Garnet til Alexandros (FF9) - FF9 Equips are good at blocking stuff(or teaching skill to block, whatever). I'm very certain she can block confuse and that's that. Certainly won't be upset if Ayla wins though. Good fight regardless.

Middle

Menardi (GS) vs Ulf (G3) - Thinking. Kneejerking Menardi, but I want to be sure about this.
Jean (BoF2) Jade Curtiss (TotA) - Death. For once I'm cheering for Jean. Just go away for robbing Haschel, Jade.

Light

Zoah (CC) vs Yukimaru (Disgaea 2) - No vote, but looking at the numbers, Zoah yawns through this fight.
Red Wizard (FF1) vs Relm Arrowny (FF6) - Ruse. I don't like it, but I allow it. Hope Realm wins anyway.

[Smashy]

Godlike

Myria (BoFs) vs Rubicant (FF4) - BoF1 Myria only.  Will think on it (or read arguements. Either or)


Heavy

Ayla (CT) vs Garnet til Alexandros (FF9) - Don't think I'm allowing Iron Fist. 


Light

Red Wizard (FF1) vs Relm Arrowny (FF6) - Uh... will look up RW later.

[OblivionKnight]

Will post fully later, but feel like playing around a bit here...

Godlike

Tyr (BoFs) vs Rubicant (FF4) - Random thinkings for this one from a curiosity perspective. 
Rubicante deals...2000 to a 1050 average or so.
Tyr 1 Hydra deals about 150 to a 999 average (Agni) or 200 to a 400 average without Agni?  Levels will vary for this a bit, I suppose.  I'd take Tyr Hydra against Agni definitely, so if we go with Myria 1 Girl...
*Looks, sees no notes for it*
...ok, I know she had Chill, so that's 100 damage or so to the same average.  Durability-wise, assuming Agni, Tyr 1 Hydra is 31x or so (999 per turn average damage) and Tyr Girl is 25000 HP vs. about 1500 damage (BoltX, Star Hammer, Rudra, Puka...probably using marbles for crits), which makes her 16.7x to me, or...25000/(1500*4) 4.16x...honestly, I don't know how the majority of you do the HP boss thing, so this could be completely wrong, but whatever.  Tyr girl is dealing 1-shotable damage to PC average in BoF assuming the weakness kicks in for Rubicante (100*4 = 400, which is about where I'd see the average lying).  Rubicante is 34000 HP to an average of about 1000 nixing weakness effects, so 34x or 8.5x...or whatever depending on how you look at it. 
....wow, that's a weird way to math it.  Taking into account his weakness, he's 8.5x and 2.2x or so, which is still good, but much worse than Tyr now.  Granted, with the weaknesses in effect, I wouldn't see Tyr Girl's Chill having an effect of weakness blasting on him, so...Rubicante still probably wins that.  However, depending on if you assume Agni in the Tyr Hydra fight...that might be the clincher.  Look at my perspective here, and it's...extremely close. 

[RadLink5]

Just a note, and I may be remembering wrong, but Tyr girl is basically a plot fight where using Agni ends the battle and not using Agni and defeating her the normal way gives you the bad ending I think. Again, I am very possibly remembering that wrong, but I definitely remember having to use Agni to get to the Hydra form.

[Dark Holy Elf]

That's correct. If you don't have Agni she'll be the final boss.

One thing to note is she has 28k HP, not 25k (that's Jade). And 400 is waaay past average PCHP in BoF1, not even Deis hits that. Honestly I suspect GIRL may actually be Myria's best form in a match, for once. Chill x4 is way too good. Rubi's better off closing the cape, but then he's getting into a slugfest where his damage isn't much better and his durability is way worse. Heh.

[OblivionKnight]

I'm taking Puka into account for average endgame HP, there, so that's why it's high.  Granted, I personally have 400 as an average without Puka, but >_>  But I was trying to view it as similar to how other people would look at it. 

Anyway, that's 999 right there for Puka, plus the rest of the group, so...(999+362+326+277+231)/5 = 439.  ...huh.  Well, that's around level 35 on Ryu (which is...low for me!  But taking something closer to normal for others is good.  Average is 305 without Puka there.

At lower levels, it's...not sure what levels specifically, but from what's noted, it's 245 without Puka, and (999+361+245+201+164)/5 = 394.  So...yeah.  Big difference depending on whether you consider Puka or not, and the levels you use.  300-350 seems a reasonable compromise.   

So with 28k HP and an average of 300 (no Puka?  seems closer this way), she's still 3-shotting (120 physical, 100 Chill), but better.  It's pretty close between them - Rubicante really has the damage edge no matter how you see it, and the durability...depends.  Depends if you double-count the weakness for his durability.  Still worse than her no matter how you see it, but if you only count it once, it's probably a lot closer.

Actually a stupendous match, here.  I'm not even considering the extremely broken FF4DS form with the 100% unblockable, immunity-piercing, instant death Legs of Doom. 

[Dark Holy Elf]

Puka isn't 999 HP. He's just 4x Karn's HP, which I believe is 880 at the lower levels. ... and there ARE three other PCs. Not to mention that if Puka dies, he comes back as Karn, so Karn's HP does matter.

Regardless, I find the concept of below average HP Deis mockable, so yeah, I'm just not seeing the 360-400 average at all. Naturally 245 is what I use (don't see Puka as any different from scaling FFX bosses against the Magus Sisters, or DQ8 bosses against Call Team, for damage they do), but even if you want to factor in Puka a little, it seems like it'd be really suspect for the average to start rising much above 300.

[Pyro]

Puka is different from the Magus sisters and other summons/buffs in that you can enter the fight with Karn in that form. Feels more akin to BoF2 Shamans. With the exception that you can't do that against Hydra Myria/Tyr because Agni requires an unfused Karn. Agni might be fair to consider like FFX Aeons or Call Team... but a lot of people penalize the FFX/DQ8 bosses durability for facing those, no?

Irregardless, 2 out of 3 Myria forms probably beat Jade.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Durability, yes, but not damage generally. I haven't heard anyone arguing that the HP average faced by DQ8 bosses should be above Yangus' HP, for instance.

Yes, you can enter a fight with Puka in play. I don't really see this as much different from initiative-calling Call Team, or from Yuna, who is faster than any boss anyway (and if she weren't, First Strike's easy to customise), calling in the Magus Sisters. Though I see your point.

[Meeplelard]

Godlike

Myria (BoFs) vs Rubicant (FF4): Rubicante faces someone whose just plain better than him!
Xorn (G3) vs Nate Nanjo (Pers): Yeah, Nate doesn't beat bosses like this.

Heavy

Red (Saga) vs T260G (Saga): Better.
Ayla (CT) vs Garnet til Alexandros (FF9): Think I've decided to allow status blocking skills IF the person equips the item that teaches it; I thought about it, and frankly, feels no different than allowing status blocking equipment; the difference is pretty trivial if you ask me.

Whatever, not going to try and argue this point, just something I've been working with for a while and finally decided to go along with it.

But anyway, Garnet thus has stuff like Mini and Odin to get through Ayla's status immunities.  Yeah, going by the convention of "universal status immunities like this only hit status from the home game *UNLESS* the status immunity method is unique."  Vigil Hats have been pissing me off for far too long, this feels like a reasonable compromise!

Middle

Menardi (GS) vs Ulf (G3): Death Sieze apparently hits defense for a check...yeah, THAT'S going to work well here, and she's not out slugging him.
Jean (BoF2) vs. Jade Curtiss (TotA): Death hits Turn 2 the latest, Jade isn't killing before then.

Light

Zoah (CC) vs Yukimaru (Disgaea 2): Zoah is good at physical slug fests like this, Yukimaru is pure physical.
Red Wizard (FF1) vs Relm Arrowny (FF6): I allow at least Curaga and Invisible (both are Red Wizard and White Wizard only, IIRC, thus 2/6), which should be enough to take Relm down.