Author Topic: Ogre Battle  (Read 3979 times)

Shale

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5800
    • View Profile
Ogre Battle
« on: August 27, 2008, 11:49:14 PM »
From Gourry.

Yay.

This was a bit pain in the ass, because OB has overly complicated mechanics with a lot of hidden factors that I couldn't deal with. I figured out how STR and INT affect damage (each point of STR or INT basically is 1/2 a point of damage), but I still don't know how damage is calculated, really. I'll test this a bit more, since it's been bothering me for a while.

Took stats at level 25. Seems fair.

Resistances aren't percentage decreases. Every point of Resistance seems to decrease the damage from a given element by a certain amount. This amount seems to vary depending on some shit I can't really figure out at the moment.

I messed around with Destin's physical resistance and let him get whomped on by a Wyrm (131 STR).

Resistance Level/Damage Taken
00- (68.58)
10- (59.26)
20- (50.25)
30- (41.56)
40- (32.43)
50- (23.44)
60- (14.6875)
70- (4.7)
80- 1
90- 1
100- 1

Every 10 points of resistance seems to decrease damage taken by 9, in this case. It varies with differing opponents, and I can't really figure out how. More on this later, if I feel like it. Oh, the system isn't STR vs. STR or INT vs. INT. Resistances seem to be the main factor in defenses, though STR and INT may still play a role in the chart above somehow.

The enemy I tested on (Dragons) have seemingly neutral resistances.

Dragon Resistances
---
White: 44
Black: 44
Fire: 50
Cold: 46
Lightning: 47
Physical: 52

Note that a dragon takes less from physical hits and more from holy/darkness. Magic generally attempts the target's weakness, so it might do more. There wasn't really anything I could do about this, since there is no truly neutral enemy.

ALI and the time of day have a pretty profound impact on damage. However, for testing purposes, I selected an enemy with 50 ALI, and I tested at a (seemingly) neutral time of day. Also, I tried to have my dudes around 50 ALI as well. I can't say how ALI affects damage dealt, but it's significant.

The two attacks listed are FrontRow, then BackRow. There doesn't seem to be a difference in damage dealt or taken from either row. I listed both attacks for the sake of completion.

Vampyres, Tigermen, and Werewolves all have two fighting forms (one for the daytime, and one for the night). They all generally suck during the day, but at night, they get a different set of resistances/attacks.

AGI affects turn order (a bit. It's still rather random), evasion, accuracy, status accuracy, blah, blah, blah. Debonair's a hard man to hit.

I assumed best classes for most people (except Gilbert and Lyon. That was just laziness), even if they require promotion items. Warren and Saradin are listed in both classes. Destin could have a choice of one of the other Lords, but the 3Slash/Iainuki one seems canon.

Healing affects a character more if he/she has higher ALI. Take this how
you will.

Stat growth is randomish, but it shouldn't affect things too much.

Resistances are listed now in terms of average durability. Lower is better, and the first number is resistance to STR based attacks, and the second is the resistance to INT based attacks.

SPESHUL CHARAKTARS
Destin
HP: 259
STR: 170
AGI: 120
INT: 121

Slice (3): 70x3 = 210
Iainuki (1): 120. 34 damage recoil (not sure what this is based on, but this seems rather constant).

Resistances (STR/INT)
---
Physical: 47 (0.84/0.94)
Fire: 40 (.87/.95)
Ice: 44 (.84/.94)
Lightning: 35 (.92/.99)
Darkness: 40 (.87/.95)
Holy: 40 (.87/.95)

Lans Hamilton
HP: 232
STR: 154
AGI: 131
INT: 109

Slice (3): 61x3 = 183
Healing (1): Heals 34 damage.

Resistances (STR/INT)
---
Physical: 53
Fire: 41
Ice: 46
Lightning: 40
Darkness: 26
Holy: 54

Warren (Sorceror)
HP: 187
STR: 95
AGI: 113
INT: 182

Magic (2): 84x2 = 168
Magic (2): 84x2 = 168. MT

Resistances (STR/INT)
---
Physical: 28
Fire: 36
Ice: 38
Lightning: 39
Darkness: 59
Holy: 21

Lich Warren
HP: 187
STR: 95
AGI: 128
INT: 182

Cold Eye (3): 35x3 = 105. Cold element?
Magic (3): 88x3 = 264. MT.

Resistances (STR/INT)
---
Physical: 100
Fire: 100
Ice: 100
Lightning: 68
Darkness: 100
Holy: 10

Canopus
HP: 246
STR: 130
AGI: 193
INT: 143

Hit (2): 50x2 = 100
Thunder (1): 53x1 = 53

Resistances (STR/INT)
---
Physical: 42 (1.02/.97)
Fire: 39 (.99/.96)
Ice: 43 (.98/95)
Lightning: 80 (.7/.64)
Darkness: 34 (1.05/1.01)
Holy: 56 (.88/.84)

Gilbert
HP: 233
STR: 162
AGI: 127
INT: 98

Whip (2): 65x2 = 130
Whip (2): 65x2 = 130

Resistances (STR/INT)
---
Physical: 48
Fire: 27
Ice: 35
Lightning: 39
Darkness: 55
Holy: 25

Deneb
HP: 185
STR: 106
AGI: 136
INT: 196

Slap (2): 36x2 = 72
Stun (2): 70% chance of stun.

Resistances (STR/INT)
---
Physical: 25
Fire: 30
Ice: 28
Lightning: 31
Darkness: 48
Holy: 50

Ashe
HP: 236
STR: 162
AGI: 132
INT: 114

Slice (3): 65x3 = 195
Healing (1): Heals 35 damage.

Resistances (STR/INT)
---
Physical: 53
Fire: 41
Ice: 46
Lightning: 40
Darkness: 26
Holy: 54

Lyon
HP: 237
STR: 175
AGI: 139
INT: 99

Whip (2): 70x2 = 140
Whip (2): 70x2 = 140

Resistances (STR/INT)
---
Physical: 48
Fire: 27
Ice: 35
Lightning: 39
Darkness: 55
Holy: 25

Rauny
HP: 212
STR: 145
AGI: 174
INT: 177

Chop (2): 54x2 = 108
Thunder (2): 81x2 = 162. MT.

Resistances (STR/INT)
---
Physical: 46 (1.11/.99)
Fire: 38 (1.13/1.04
Ice: 52 (1.01/.91)
Lightning: 60 (.94/.82)
Darkness: 15 (1.38/1.34)
Holy: 65 (.88/.75)

Galf
HP: 255
STR: 192
AGI: 178
INT: 211

Chop (2): 83x2 = 166
Meteor (1): 101x1 = 101. MT.

Resistances (STR/INT)
---
Physical: 53 (.74/.67)
Fire: 42 (.81/.76)
Ice: 52 (.72/.66
Lightning: 48 (.77/.71)
Darkness: 86 (.37/.28)
Holy: 4!!!!!!!!!!! (1.22/1.21)

Aisha
HP: 210
STR: 132
AGI: 157
INT: 197

Ankh (3): 54x3 = 162
Healing+ (2): Heals 55 damage each. MT.

Resistances (STR/INT)
---
Physical: 32 (1.28/1.13)
Fire: 31 (1.23/1.10)
Ice: 29 (1.27/1.15)
Lightning: 29 (1.27/1.15)
Darkness: 10 (1.46/1.39)
Holy: 70 (.90/.62)

Norn
HP: 206
STR: 135
AGI: 162
INT: 202

Ankh (3): 55x3 = 165
Healing+ (2): Heals 56 damage each. MT.

Resistances (STR/INT)
---
Physical: 32 (1.30/1.15)
Fire: 31 (1.25/1.12)
Ice: 29 (1.29/1.16)
Lightning: 29 (1.29/1.16)
Darkness: 10 (1.47/1.42)
Holy: 70 (.91/.61)

Yushis
HP: 206
STR: 150
AGI: 155
INT: 206

Halo (2): 65x2 = 130
Jihad (1): 102x1 = 102. MT.

Resistances (STR/INT)
---
Physical: 35 (1.24/1.09)
Fire: 45 (1.07/.91)
Ice: 48 (1.07/.90)
Lightning: 45 (1.07/.91)
Darkness: 17 (1.39/1.32)
Holy: 77 (.77/.497)

Saradin (Sorceror)
HP: 196
STR: 119
AGI: 142
INT: 210

Magic (2): 98x2 = 196
Magic (2): 98x2 = 196. MT.

Resistances (STR/INT)
---
Physical: 28 (1.59/1.25)
Fire: 36 (1.30/1.08)
Ice: 38 (1.31/1.06)
Lightning: 39 (1.31/1.06)
Darkness: 59 (1.12/.77)
Holy: 21 (1.46/1.32)

Lich Saradin
HP: 183
STR: 115
AGI: 151
INT: 206

Cold Eye (3): 45x3 = 135. Cold element?
Magic (3): 99x3 = 297

Resistances (STR/INT)
---
Physical: 100 (.88/.23
Fire: 100 (.81/.18)
Ice: 100 (.84/.20)
Lightning: 68 (1.14/.70)
Darkness: 100 (.84/.20)
Holy: 10 (1.67/1.59)

Debonair
HP: 262
STR: 185
AGI: 189
INT: 161

Slice (3): 76x3 = 228.
Blade (1): 105x1 = 105.

Resistances (STR/INT)
---
Physical: 53 (.74/.78)
Fire: 37 (.85/.88)
Ice: 43 (.81/.85)
Lightning: 39 (.85/.88)
Darkness: 29 (.95/.97)
Holy: 72 (.527/.599)

Fenril
HP: 229
STR: 166
AGI: 159
INT: 160

Charge (3): 69x3 = 207
Iainuki (1): 117x1 = 117. 28 damage recoil.

Resistances (STR/INT)
---
Physical: 70 (.73/.73)
Fire: 56 (.82/.83)
Ice: 58 (.82/.83)
Lightning: 62 (.78/.79)
Darkness: 50 (.90/.91)
Holy: 50 (.90/.91)

Tristan
HP: 262
STR: 176
AGI: 187
INT: 155

Slice (3): 72x3 = 216.
Iainuki (1): 125. 31 damage recoil.

Resistances (STR/INT)
---
Physical: 53 (.76/79)
Fire: 37 (.87/.89)
Ice: 43 (.83/.86)
Lightning: 39 (.87/.89)
Darkness: 29 (.96/.98)
Holy: 72 (.558/.620)

Fogel
HP: 259
STR: 193
AGI: 166
INT: 159

Charge (3): 83*3 = 249.
Iainuki (1): 139. 37 recoil damage.

Resistances (STR/INT)
---
Physical: 70 (.554/.65)
Fire: 56 (.65/.73)
Ice: 58 (.65/.73)
Lightning: 62 (.61/.70)
Darkness: 50 (.73/.72)
Holy: 50 (.73/.72)

Slust
HP: 257
STR: 181
AGI: 151
INT: 147

Charge (3): 78*3 = 234
Iainuki (1): 133x1 = 133. 32 recoil damage.

Resistances (STR/INT)
---
Physical: 70 (.59/.70)
Fire: 56 (.69/.77)
Ice: 58 (.68/.77)
Lightning: 62 (.65/.74)
Darkness: 50 (.76/.84)
Holy: 50 (.76/.84)

Generics and Monsters
Sorceror
HP: 169
STR: 97
AGI: 92
INT: 148

Magic (2): 66x2 = 132.
Magic (2): 66x2 = 132. MT

Resistances
---
Physical: 28
Fire: 36
Ice: 38
Lightning: 39
Darkness: 59
Holy: 21

Lich
HP: 155
STR: 96
AGI: 103
INT: 150

Cold Eye (3): 35x3 = 105. Cold element?
Magic (3): 72x3 = 216

Resistances
---
Physical: 100
Fire: 100
Ice: 100
Lightning: 68
Darkness: 100
Holy: 10

Muse
HP: 196
STR: 121
AGI: 145
INT: 136

Chop (2): 43x2 = 86
Thunder (2): 64x2 = 128. MT

Resistances
---
Physical: 46
Fire: 38
Ice: 52
Lightning: 60
Darkness: 15
Holy: 65

Witch
HP: 186
STR: 93
AGI: 125
INT: 170

Slap (2): 30x2 = 60
Stun (2): 70% chance of stun.

Resistances
---
Physical: 25
Fire: 30
Ice: 28
Lightning: 31
Darkness: 48
Holy: 50

Paladin
HP: 227
STR: 134
AGI: 119
INT: 101

Slice (3): 52x3 = 156
Healing (1): Heals 30 damage.

Resistances
---
Physical: 53
Fire: 41
Ice: 46
Lightning: 40
Darkness: 26
Holy: 54

DollMaster
HP: 179
STR: 99
AGI: 126
INT: 130

Puppet (2): 32x2 = 64
Acid (2): 59x2 = 108. MT.

Resistances
---
Physical: 26
Fire: 47
Ice: 21
Lightning: 29
Darkness: 21
Holy: 59

NinjaMaster
HP: 222
STR: 127
AGI: 144
INT: 118

Shuriken (3): 48x3 = 144
Ninjutsu (1): 55. MT.

Resistances
---
Physical: 47
Fire: 52
Ice: 46
Lightning: 45
Darkness: 68
Holy: 2

Evil One
HP: 245
STR: 130
AGI: 118
INT: 89

Chop (2): 51x2 = 102.
Fireball (2): 40x2 = 80.

Resistances
---
Physical: 54
Fire: 46
Ice: 40
Lightning: 39
Darkness: 55
Holy: 25

Samurai Master
HP: 211
STR: 137
AGI: 116
INT: 101

Slice (3): 53*3 = 159
Iainuki (1): 95. ~28 recoil damage.

Resistances
---
Physical: 52
Fire: 34
Ice: 35
Lightning: 37
Darkness: 21
Holy: 69

Beast Master
HP: 218
STR: 147
AGI: 121
INT: 91

Whip (2): 57x2 = 114
Whip (2): 57x2 = 114

Resistances
---
Physical: 48
Fire: 27
Ice: 35
Lightning: 39
Darkness: 55
Holy: 25
"Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."
-Ponder Stibbons

[23:02] <Veryslightlymad> CK dreams about me starring in porno?
[23:02] <CmdrKing> Pretty sure.

Shale

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5800
    • View Profile
Re: Ogre Battle
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2008, 11:49:21 PM »

Dragon Master
HP: 200
STR: 131
AGI: 126
INT: 104

Slice (2): 48x2 = 96
Icefield (2): 47x2 = 94

Resistances
---
Physical: 45
Fire: 22
Ice: 58
Lightning: 47
Darkness: 40
Holy: 40

Vampyre
HP: 203
STR: 140
AGI: 121
INT: 158

During the Day
---
Sleeping (1): OMG.
Sleeping (1): " ".

At Night
---
Lifesuck (2): 56x2 = 112 parasitic healing.
Charm (2): Charms a unit (charmed units attack themselves). Getting hit doesn't relieve you of this status. 70% chance.

Resistances (Vampyre/Coffin)
---
Physical: 82/100
Fire: 78/100
Ice: 85/100
Lightning: 48/100
Darkness: 80/100
Holy: 10/100

Monk
HP: 207
STR: 115
AGI: 119
INT: 160

Ankh (3): 46x3 = 138
Healing+ (2): Heals 45 damage each. MT.

Resistances
---
Physical: 32
Fire: 31
Ice: 29
Lightning: 29
Darkness: 10
Holy: 70

Princess
HP: 150
STR: 90
AGI: 129
INT: 171

Stardust (3): 29x3 = 87
Starlite (2): 83x2 = 166

Note: While testing, I let her lead her own unit, so she gets some extra attacks. If not, just take one off the multiplier.

Resistances
---
Physical: 27
Fire: 21
Ice: 22
Lightning: 25
Darkness: 20
Holy: 65

Tigerman
HP: 227
STR: 159
AGI: 133
INT: 72

During the Day
---
Smash (1): 66x1 = 66
Smash (1): 66x1 = 66

At Night
---
Smash (2): 66x2 = 132
Smash (2): 66x2 = 132.

Resistances (Tiger/Human)
---
Physical: 74/44
Fire: 76/36
Ice: 71/40
Lightning: 75/34
Darkness: 94/40
Holy: 14/40

Halloween
HP: 204
STR: 133
AGI: 127
INT: 95

Pumpkin (2): Halves target's HP.
Pumpkin (2): Halves target's HP.

I'm not sure if Pumpkin can actually kill anything, honestly.

Resistances
---
Physical: 60
Fire: 37
Ice: 56
Lightning: 64
Darkness: 69
Holy: 22

Wraith
HP: 0
STR: 152
AGI: 100
INT: 73

Slice (3): 62x3 = 186
Slice (1): 62x1 = 62

Resistances
---
Physical: 100
Fire: 100
Ice: 100
Lightning: 100
Darkness: 100
Holy: 0

Phantom
HP: 0
STR: 99
AGI: 142
INT: 156

Curse (2): 38x2 = 76
Nightmare (3): 75x3 = 225

Resistances
---
Physical: 100
Fire: 100
Ice: 100
Lightning: 100
Darkness: 100
Holy: 0

EagleMan
HP: 238
STR: 115
AGI: 151
INT: 107

Hit (2): 42x2 = 84
Thunder (1): 35x1 = 35.

Resistances
---
Physical: 42
Fire: 39
Ice: 43
Lightning: 80
Darkness: 34
Holy: 56

Ravenman
HP: 238
STR: 115
AGI: 151
INT: 107

Hit (2): 42x2 = 84
Inferno (1): 30.

Resistances
---
Physical: 40
Fire: 70
Ice: 46
Lightning: 47
Darkness: 69
Holy: 21

Seraphim
HP: 181
STR: 110
AGI: 113
INT: 162

HP: 206
STR: 150
AGI: 155
INT: 206

Halo (2): 43x2 = 86
Jihad (1): 79x1 = 79. MT

Resistances
---
Physical: 35
Fire: 45
Ice: 48
Lightning: 45
Darkness: 17
Holy: 77

Sylph
HP: 142
STR: 114
AGI: 176
INT: 168

Slap (2): 42x2 = 84
Missile (1): 80x1 = 80. MT

Resistances
---
Physical: 35
Fire: 36
Ice: 27
Lightning: 22
Darkness: 30
Holy: 60

Nixie
HP: 229
STR: 123
AGI: 132
INT: 151

Stab (2): 35x2 = 70
Blizzard (1): 63 cold damage. MT.

Resistances
---
Physical: 34
Fire: 31
Ice: 60
Lightning: 23
Darkness: 47
Holy: 62

Salamander
HP: 343
STR: 180
AGI: 126
INT: 136

Fire (2): 78x2 = 156
Nova (2): 63x2 = 126. MT

Resistances
---
Physical: 62
Fire: 86
Ice: 11
Lightning: 67
Darkness: 51
Holy: 51

Platinum Dragon
HP: 344
STR: 177
AGI: 120
INT: 132

Cold (2): 77x2 = 154
Icecloud (2): 65x2 = 130. MT.

Resistances
---
Physical: 61
Fire: 11
Ice: 88
Lightning: 69
Darkness: 17
Holy: 76

Tiamat
HP: 330
STR: 170
AGI: 117
INT: 124

Acid (2): 68x2 = 136
EvilRing (2): 62x2 = 124. MT

Resistances
---
Physical: 59
Fire: 53
Ice: 54
Lightning: 76
Darkness: 69
Holy: 30

Zombie Dragon
HP: 344
STR: 184
AGI: 115
INT: 110

Acid (2): 75x2 = 150
Rot (2): 74x2 = 148

Resistances
---
Physical: 73
Fire: 79
Ice: 78
Lightning: 86
Darkness: 83
Holy: 15

IronGolem
HP: 125
STR: 168
AGI: 95
INT: 85

Ironfist (3): 68x3 = 204
Ironfist (2): 68x2 = 136

Resistances
---
Physical: 82
Fire: 41
Ice: 81
Lightning: 72
Darkness: 63
Holy: 90

Titan
HP: 291
STR: 155
AGI: 118
INT: 105

Club (3): 60x3 = 180
Gale (2): 45x2 = 90

Resistances
---
Physical: 54
Fire: 47
Ice: 39
Lightning: 52
Darkness: 15
Holy: 80

Cockatris
HP: 260
STR: 135
AGI: 183
INT: 86

Charge (2): 54x2 = 108
Petrify (2): 54x2 = 108. ~60% chance. Petrified enemies can't do anything for the rest of the battle. Take this how you want.

Wyvern
HP: 309
STR: 166
AGI: 138
INT: 79

Tail (2): 69x2 = 138
Fire (2): 69x2 = 138

Resistances
---
Physical: 49
Fire: 53
Ice: 35
Lightning: 42
Darkness: 50
Holy: 20

Cerberus
HP: 265
STR: 161
AGI: 160
INT: 137

Smash (3): 67x3 = 201
Charm (2): Stuns. 65% chance.
While doing Charm, Cerberus randomly does Fire, which is equal to his Smash attack (it uses STR, but it's fire elemental). Sometimes it'll open up with Charm and then use Fire, but it's kinda random.

Resistances
---
Physical: 51
Fire: 52
Ice: 40
Lightning: 36
Darkness: 65
Holy: 15

Kraken
HP: 335
STR: 155
AGI: 117
INT: 91

Crush (4): 54x4 = 216
Tentacle (2): 54x2 = 108

Resistances
---
Physical: 67
Fire: 59
Ice: 58
Lightning: 17
Darkness: 43
Holy: 57

Werewolf
HP: 229
STR: 134
AGI: 135
INT: 76

During the Day
---
Slice (1): 51x1 = 51
Slice (1): 51x1 = 51

At Night
---
Smash (3): 51x3 = 153
Smash (3): 51x3 = 153

Resistances (Wolf/Human)
---
Physical: 71/44
Fire: 72/36
Ice: 77/40
Lightning: 78/34
Darkness: 92/40
Holy: 11/40

Devil
HP: 224
STR: 131
AGI: 124
INT: 149

Chop (2): 53x2 = 106
Meteor (1): 70x1 = 70. MT.

Resistances
---
Physical: 53
Fire: 42
Ice: 52
Lightning: 48
Darkness: 86
Holy: 4
"Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."
-Ponder Stibbons

[23:02] <Veryslightlymad> CK dreams about me starring in porno?
[23:02] <CmdrKing> Pretty sure.

Shale

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5800
    • View Profile
Re: Ogre Battle
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2008, 11:49:37 PM »
Mepmep's contribution:

Hmm well here are some averages both for "Heroes" only and for the entire cast, depending on how you wish to interpret them.

Couple things to note.
-I tossed out the undead units HP and Defense stats because they're special units.
-For day/night units I used only their nighttime stats, felt like being nice to them.
-Used sorcerer form for the two mages.
-Resistances will come later if people want
-List of Monsters can come later if people want

HP
Tristan- 262
Debonair- 262
Destin- 259
Fogel- 259
Slust- 257
Galf- 255
Canopus- 246
Lyon- 237
Ashe- 236
Gilbert- 233
Lans- 232
Fenril- 229
Rauny- 212
Aisha- 210
Yushis- 206
Norn- 206
Saradin- 196
Warren- 187
Deneb- 185
Hero Average- 229.9
Overall Average- 232.6


Agility
Canopus- 193
Debonair- 189
Tristan- 187
Galf- 178
Rauny- 174
Fogel- 166
Norn- 162
Fenril- 159
Aisha- 157
Yushis- 155
Slust- 151
Saradin- 142
Lyon- 139
Deneb- 136
Ashe- 132
Lans- 131
Gilbert- 127
Destin-120
Warren- 113
Hero Average- 153.2
Overall Average- 136.8


Damage
Fogel- 249
Slust- 234
Debonair- 228
Tristan- 216
Destin- 210
Fenril- 207
Saradin- 196
Ashe- 195
Lans- 183
Warren- 168
Galf- 166
Norn- 165
Rauny- 162
Aisha- 162
Lyon- 140
Gilbert- 130
Yushis- 130
Canopus- 100
Deneb- 72
Hero Average- 174.4
Overall Average- 146.4


Defense
Fogel- 70
Slust- 70
Fenril- 70
Tristan- 53
Debonair- 53
Galf- 53
Lans- 53
Ashe- 53
Lyon- 48
Gilbert- 48
Destin- 47
Rauny- 46
Canopus- 42
Yushis- 35
Norn- 32
Aisha- 32
Warren- 28
Saradin- 28
Deneb- 25
Hero Average- 46.6
Overall Average- 48.2

Summary
HP- Hero HP average and Generic HP average was actually very close mainly thanks to the 4 dragons who keep generic HP from sucking. Note that all the Heroes have fairly close HP (No one more than 25% above/below average)
Agi- Heroes actually better than the overall average here. Warren's still a piece of trash though.
Damage- Heroes average damage is 120% better than the overall avarage damage. Makes sense since they are the heroes after all. Deneb is a status whore hence her damage, Canopus has no good excuse for his shitty damage.
Defense- Pretty simple, Dragoons > Fighters > Mages. Overall D about matches the overall taking into account everything.

Overall it's a fairly simple game... they all have decent stats, but no tricks like most fighters in RPGDL. Cockatrice for instance would probably have as good of luck in heavy as the Dragoons thanks solely to having a nasty status.
"Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."
-Ponder Stibbons

[23:02] <Veryslightlymad> CK dreams about me starring in porno?
[23:02] <CmdrKing> Pretty sure.

Shale

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5800
    • View Profile
Re: Ogre Battle
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2008, 11:49:50 PM »
More from Gourry:

Okay, I messed around with character resistsances and strength today, and I formed a sound (to me) theory on how damage works.

I think damage is just

STR/2 - (1 + STR/20)*Resistance/10 +-x/? ALI NONSENSE THAT I CANNOT FATHOM

My numbers don't line up with this formula because of the ALI effect. I think it screws around with the first half of the formula (it becomes STR/2*1.17 or so with my alignment settings). I don't know why this is, because I tried to test with neutral ALIs at a neutral time of day.

If this doesn't make any sense to you, let's assume a 200 STR character hits Fogel (193 STR, 70 resistance to physicals) and ignore the ALI stuff. Fogel would take

200/2 - (1 + 193/20)*70/10
100 - 74.55 = 25.45

Now let's assume a Princess (90 STR, 27 to Physicals) under the same conditions.

200/2 - (1 + 90/20)*27/10
100 - 14.85 = 85.15

For something interesting, let's assume Princess STR with Fogel's resistances (90 STR, 70 Physical)

200/2 - (1 + 90/20)*70/10
100 - 38.5 = 61.5.

Fogel STR, Princess Resistance

200/2 - (1 + 193/20)*27/10
100 - 28.755 = 71.245.

While these are extreme cases, the conclusions are the same. STR (or INT, depending on the situation) and Resistances are both very important for defenses. And I get to eat my words for saying otherwise.

Of course, I could be wrong, but I tested at several different STR and Resistance levels, and they mostly matched up.
"Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."
-Ponder Stibbons

[23:02] <Veryslightlymad> CK dreams about me starring in porno?
[23:02] <CmdrKing> Pretty sure.

Shale

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5800
    • View Profile
Re: Ogre Battle
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2008, 11:50:21 PM »
Super has something to say about OB: MADNESS!

http://www.carbuncle.jp/og5/ex16.html
http://www.carbuncle.jp/og5/ex15.html


Rashidi had Jihad and Life Drain, and every elemental spell. Endora has every elemental spell. Radishi gets six attacks, Endora five.

Top line: physical resistance
Second: Fire
Third: Ice
Fourth: Lighting
Fifth: Darkness
Six: Holy

Average resistances, just based on the 19 non generic PC's.

Fire resistance:

Fenril: 56
Fogel: 56
Slust: 56
Yushis: 45
Galf: 42
Ashe: 41
Lans: 41
Destin: 40
Canopus: 39
Rauny: 38
Tristan: 37
Debonair: 37
Warren: 36
Saradin: 36
Aisha: 31
Norn: 31
Deneb: 30
Lyon: 27
Gilbert: 27

Average: 38

Ice resistance:

Fenril: 58
Fogel: 58
Slust: 58
Rauny: 52
Galf: 52
Yushis: 48
Lans: 46
Ashe: 46
Destin: 44
Canopus: 43
Debonair: 43
Warren: 38
Saradin: 38
Lyon: 35
Gilbert: 35
Aisha: 29
Norn: 29
Deneb: 28

Average: 41

Lighting resistance:

Canopus: 80
Fenril: 62
Fogel: 62
Slust: 62
Galf: 48
Yushis: 45
Lans: 40
Ashe: 40
Warren: 39
Saradin: 39
Debonair: 39
Tristian: 39
Gilbert: 39
Lyon: 39
Destin: 35
Deneb: 31
Aisha: 29
Norn: 29

Average: 41

Darkness resistance:

Galf: 86
Warren: 59
Saradin: 59
Gilbert: 55
Lyon: 55
Fenril: 50
Fogel: 50
Slust: 50
Deneb: 48
Destin: 40
Canopus: 34
Tristain: 29
Debonair: 29
Ashe: 26
Lans: 26
Yushis: 17
Rauny: 15
Aisha: 10
Norn: 10

Average: 39

Holy resistance

Yushis: 77
Tristian: 72
Debonair: 72
Aisha: 70
Norn: 70
Rauny: 65
Canopus: 56
Lans: 54
Ashe: 54
Fenril: 50
Fogel: 50
Slust: 50
Destin: 40
Gilbert: 25
Lyon: 25
Gilbert: 25
Lyon: 25
Galf: 4 (This is about as bad as you'd think it is.)

Average: 46

Ran some quick tests on endgame OB bosses. All of these were taken during early daytime, against 100 alignment units.

Endora: Interesting enough, her physical durability's not as bad as adverised. She took less from light elemental physicals than her black knights took from darkness elemental physicals. Part of that is her excellent strength score, but part of that is a castle bonus, I think. Suspect castles improve defenses.

She also evaded a 155 AGI Eagleman 40% of the time or so. 120 AGI missed her about 80% of the time.

Her average damage is 105+5. PC HP is about 220 at that point. Basically, three turns kill from her, and five masscares anyone but reasonably durable bosses.

Gares fails. 60 average damage, undead support, and did not like magic. Decent against physicals, but 240 unscaled HP isn't going to cut it, combined with a verging 4HKO.

Rashidi's physical defense -was- as bad as adverseted. Despite high strength, he took a notable amount from physicals. He also evaded less than Endora. (Granted, two extra levels might have helped.) I think he evaded 20% of the time or so? He has every spell/move in the game. This includes dragon breath attacks. Lifesuck ignores actual defense. I think it's only affected by actual physical resist, which helps a good bit in the DL. Flipside, I oversold it's damage. It was only doing 55~ or so. Helps him against tanks like Jade, but hurts against someone like Ramirez.
Rashidi does about 115 to a 245~ average.

Endora is fully walled by a world card, despite Wind Shot running off of strength and hitting defense. Make of that what you will. Rashidi can break a world card with lifesuck and Wind Storm, which averages about 70 damage. Endora took a third of the magical damage of everything on her map, Rashidi around half. That INT does help.

What you make of that in the DL is your call, but Endora always fights on a castle in game.

Edit: Cleaned it up a bit.
"Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."
-Ponder Stibbons

[23:02] <Veryslightlymad> CK dreams about me starring in porno?
[23:02] <CmdrKing> Pretty sure.

Shale

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5800
    • View Profile
Re: Ogre Battle
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2008, 11:50:54 PM »
From the Cid:

Because Super is evil, averages for resistances including generics. Calculations for resistances did not include vamps/lycanthropes because they are stupid nonconformists, nor undead because their resistances don't really matter.

Average resistances:

Physical: 48.4
Fire: 42.8
Ice: 44.9
Lightning: 45.4
Darkness: 44
Holy: 44.7

Unique PCs compared against full averages:

Physical Resistance:

Fenril: 70
Fogel: 70
Slust: 70
Ashe: 53
Debonair: 53
Galf: 53
Lans: 53
Tristan: 53
Gilbert: 48
Lyon: 48
Destin: 47
Rauny: 46
Canopus: 42
Yushis: 35
Aisha: 32
Norn: 32
Saradin: 28
Warren: 28
Deneb: 25

Average with just unique PCs: 46.6
Average w/generics: 48.4

Fire resistance:

Fenril: 56
Fogel: 56
Slust: 56
Yushis: 45
Galf: 42
Ashe: 41
Lans: 41
Destin: 40
Canopus: 39
Rauny: 38
Tristan: 37
Debonair: 37
Warren: 36
Saradin: 36
Aisha: 31
Norn: 31
Deneb: 30
Lyon: 27
Gilbert: 27

Average with just unique PCs: 38
Average w/ generics: 42.8

Ice resistance:

Fenril: 58
Fogel: 58
Slust: 58
Rauny: 52
Galf: 52
Yushis: 48
Lans: 46
Ashe: 46
Destin: 44
Canopus: 43
Debonair: 43
Warren: 38
Saradin: 38
Lyon: 35
Gilbert: 35
Aisha: 29
Norn: 29
Deneb: 28

Average with just unique PCs: 41
Average w/generics: 44.9

Lighting resistance:

Canopus: 80
Fenril: 62
Fogel: 62
Slust: 62
Galf: 48
Yushis: 45
Lans: 40
Ashe: 40
Warren: 39
Saradin: 39
Debonair: 39
Tristian: 39
Gilbert: 39
Lyon: 39
Destin: 35
Deneb: 31
Aisha: 29
Norn: 29

Average with just unique PCs: 41
Average w/generics: 45.4

Darkness resistance:

Galf: 86
Warren: 59
Saradin: 59
Gilbert: 55
Lyon: 55
Fenril: 50
Fogel: 50
Slust: 50
Deneb: 48
Destin: 40
Canopus: 34
Tristain: 29
Debonair: 29
Ashe: 26
Lans: 26
Yushis: 17
Rauny: 15
Aisha: 10
Norn: 10

Average with just unique PCs: 39
Average w/generics: 44

Holy resistance:

Yushis: 77
Tristian: 72
Debonair: 72
Aisha: 70
Norn: 70
Rauny: 65
Canopus: 56
Lans: 54
Ashe: 54
Fenril: 50
Fogel: 50
Slust: 50
Destin: 40
Gilbert: 25
Lyon: 25
Gilbert: 25
Lyon: 25
Galf: 4 (This is about as bad as you'd think it is.)

Average with just unique PCs: 46
Average w/generics: 44.7


Now, STR and INT. I did factor all generics into account for these:

STR:

Fogel: 193
Galf: 192
Debonair: 185
Slust: 181
Tristan: 176
Lyon: 175
Destin: 170
Fenril: 166
Ashe: 162
Gilbert: 162
Lans: 154
Yushis: 150
Rauny: 145
Norn: 135
Aisha: 132
Canopus: 130
Saradin: 119
Deneb: 106
Warren: 95

Average with just unique PCs: 154.1
Average w/generics: 141.1


INT

Galf: 211
Saradin: 210
Yushis: 206
Norn: 202
Aisha: 197
Deneb: 196
Warren: 182
Rauny: 177
Debonair: 161
Fenril: 160
Fogel: 159
Tristan: 155
Slust: 147
Canopus: 143
Destin: 121
Ashe: 114
Lans: 109
Lyon: 99
Gilbert: 98

Average with just unique PCs: 160.3
Average w/generics: 134.7

Basically, including generics in the average makes the PC resistances look slightly worse, but makes their STR and INT look much better. Probably balances out in their favor.
"Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."
-Ponder Stibbons

[23:02] <Veryslightlymad> CK dreams about me starring in porno?
[23:02] <CmdrKing> Pretty sure.

superaielman

  • "Mordero daghain pas duente cuebiyar/The fear of death holds not my heart!"
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 9632
    • View Profile
Re: Ogre Battle
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2009, 03:27:09 PM »
http://www.rpgdl.com/wiki/index.php?title=Saga_mechanics (OB related, I was annoyed when I created the page)

Absorbable Damage = ((STR or INT of Target)/2 + Movement Factor * 2 - Time Factor/5 + Kiss Bonus + random (3, 10)) * Target's Resistance/100

Raw Attack Damage = (STR or INT of Attacker)/2 + Movement Factor * 2 - Time Factor/5 + Tactics Factor + Kiss Bonus + random (1, 8)

Movement factor is terrian movement/penalties. Think what Brig does, but stupider. Kiss bonus isn't DL reelvant, Tactics I'm treating as a null value. (One tactic gives an attack bonus/defense hit, and a attack hit/defense bonus). All info is gleaned from the new Gamefaqs mechanics guide. I'm going to take all combat on neutral terrian. Bit of a DL invention there, but in theory the DL fights on neutral ground anyway.  Alignment (Time factor) gets the same treatment as movement factor, since there's no sane way to deal with it. Bosses will have alignment factored in, and I'm going to take them against dawn/dusk.

Endora's right around 50%-60% evasion depending, so I was right about that. AGI+terrian does that.
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...