Season 53 rankings: Persona 4 and Wild ARMs 5

[Pyro]

Greg Russelberg - 3.3. Pyro's comments confuse me, elemental Heavy Crush hurts even without the ATK boost.

Greg doesn't actually have a gameplay claim to the Sword Medium. He doesn't even come with it equipped.

[Talaysen]

1. Tal, you're missing the point that I'm arguing the hypothetical that Djinn put forward and Dhyer argued. I'm not even saying Dean gets the Sea Medium in the DL. He gets no medium in the DL.

I'm not missing any point here.  Basically see what NEB said, but I'll repeat it.  Even with the Sea Medium, Dean cannot ever use Sonic Vision, because the Sea Medium does not have it.  The Sword Medium and Luck Medium do.

Personally, I give out the Mediums because while the individual PCs are pretty interchangeable, the Mediums' skillsets are fairly interesting, and conveniently 6 PCs correspond well with the 6 Mediums. And 3 of them are already legal by initial equipment rules. The only really sticky point is which Mediums Dean and Rebecca should get from the initial two since they are both handed them at the same time. I was trying to assign them based on some gameplay-based argument, and the most logical one that comes to mind is that Rebecca's stats work with the Sky Medium better than Dean's.

Rebecca's stats work with the Sea Medium better than Dean's as well.  And she'd probably rather have that one.  This is why handing those two the other two mediums has serious issues.  They BOTH want the Sea Medium, and if you try to go with a gameplay argument... Rebecca's better at both anyway.

[OblivionKnight]

The best way to do it, assuming you want to give everyone a medium? 

There are enough blank mediums to create 5 additional copies of each medium.  So technically, if you wanted to give a medium to each PC?  They'd all have the option of ANY medium - I can see that, actually, and while it makes the cast the same, they have a bit of uniqueness as a cast (just not individually - so one time they use the Sea Medium, the next time the Mountain, etc...though Sword, Sea, Sky, Luck probably will get the most use).

[DjinnAndTonic]

Personally, I give out the Mediums because while the individual PCs are pretty interchangeable, the Mediums' skillsets are fairly interesting, and conveniently 6 PCs correspond well with the 6 Mediums. And 3 of them are already legal by initial equipment rules. The only really sticky point is which Mediums Dean and Rebecca should get from the initial two since they are both handed them at the same time. I was trying to assign them based on some gameplay-based argument, and the most logical one that comes to mind is that Rebecca's stats work with the Sky Medium better than Dean's.

Rebecca's stats work with the Sea Medium better than Dean's as well.  And she'd probably rather have that one.  This is why handing those two the other two mediums has serious issues.  They BOTH want the Sea Medium, and if you try to go with a gameplay argument... Rebecca's better at both anyway.

Well, alternately, since both Mediums were handed to both characters in the plot scene (and that qualifies as plot-legal for me), I'd allow both of them their choice of Sea or Sky Mediums in a duel. Especially since by Endgame there's plenty of Sea and Sky mediums to go around.

Of course, giving them Medium choice is reflective of in-game, but it's not really something unique to either Dean or Rebecca, so I understand the argument against it, so that's why I was just handing out one Medium per PC as that seems like the intent of the system. It seems like a somewhat arbitrary call, but my reasoning is that a PC needs a good Magic stat to make offensive magic worthwhile (Sky), but those stats are less necessary to make healing (Sea) worthwhile. Thus, since Rebecca is the better mage at the time the plot hands you these two Mediums, Rebecca gets Sky, Dean gets Sea. Not arbitrary, just less definitive than most of the plot claims I allow.

[VySaika]

Persona 4

Chie Satonaka - Heavy
Kanji Tatsumi - Heavy
Naoto Shirogane - Heavy
Souji Seta - Godlike
Teddie - Middle
Yosuke Hanamura - Heavy
Yukiko Amagi - Middle

[Cmdr_King]

Persona 4

Chie Satonaka- 4.0 Heavy
Kanji Tatsumi- 3.75 Middle/Heavy
Naoto Shirogane- 3.8 Low Heavy
Souji Seta- 5.50 Godlike Champion 5.00 Godlike
Teddie- 3.5 High Middle
Yosuke Hanamura- 3.75 Middle/Heavy
Yukiko Amagi- 3.75 Middle/Heavy

Wild ARMS 5

Avril Vent Fleur- 2.5 (Light)
Carol Anderson- 3.25 Middle
Chuck Preston- 3.0 Light/Middle
Dean Stark- 2.2 Light
Elvis- 4.5 Heavy/Godlike
Fereydoon- 4.7 Godlike
Greg Russelberg- 3.1 Low Middle
Ice Queen Avril- 4.6 Low Godlike
Kartikeya- 4.5 Heavy/Godlike
Nightburn Acklund- 3.8 Low Heavy
Persephone- 4.8 Godlike
Rebecca  Streisand- 2.2 Light

[Bardiche]

WA5 PC Cast: The entire PC Cast a DNR. Why? Because they're almost all without Mediums, and given that there's probably no one who'd play them without Mediums, it's just too confusing to those members who only vote and don't visit the forums. (Not to mention personal sentiment that feels it's silly to rank PCs at the lowest of their potential)

WA5 Boss Cast: With the exception of Nightburn, High Heavies all of them. Nightburn a High Middle.

[Cmdr_King]

Well that's just silly.  Nobody seems to have trouble dealing with FFVIII and their ability to lose if they don't get limits.  Cait Sith's win/loss record is pretty consistent with a majority of voters assuming his Transform Materia but not every materia ever.  Nobody would use Relm without teaching her spells, yet her DL record doesn't show the sort of wins access to FFVI magic would imply... I could probably go on.

[Dhyerwolf]

Or to make the most specific example, WA 3, a game with Medium skillset where the only 1/4 of the DL PCs have a Medium (As opposed to half with WA 5; and WA 3 can even triple stack Mediums) has usually been pretty spot on with matches.

[Nephrite]

Persona 4

Chie Satonaka- Heavy.  Damage, evasion, speed. She can be walled but it's not easy, the asskicking she gave proving grounds so far proves what division she belongs in.
Kanji Tatsumi- Low Heavy. Uber durability and good damage, but he's slow and doesn't like evasion.
Naoto Shirogane- Low Heavy. Evasive, quick ID whore. It works.
Souji Seta- Godlike. He can be beaten (See Souji vs the world), but it isn't easy. All that flexability boils down to him kicking your ass with a lot of nasty physical damage and tanking with Enduring Soul.
Teddie- Middle. Weak to thunder, slow, not durable. Good healing/buff package but...
Yosuke Hanamura- Heavy. Red Mage+5.  He covers his bases well and does speed/damage well enough to deserve this.
Yukiko Amagi- High Middle. Ice weakness and bad physical durability. Evasion should help some.

[superaielman]

This closes tonight, so get your votes in now.

[074]

Persona 4

Chie Satonaka- 3.80.  Oh god, she brings the pain with Powercharged God's Hand.  I guess Evade hype goes in as well.  Hates anyone who can get good damage past that evade, though, or in turn has solid evasion.
Kanji Tatsumi- 3.70.  Hates status, and isn't that fond of magic, either--and his low-HP offense is honestly laughable.  Psychotic out the gate, though, with stupidly good pDur and a very high 2HKO in Primal Force
Naoto Shirogane- 3.82.  Fast deathwhoring plus Endure.  She's going to kill many, many PCs.
Souji Seta- 5.00.  I'd rate him higher if I could.  God knows the bastard destroys just about everyone.
Teddie- 3.44.  Honestly, he comes off as cast-worst due to his resist set.  Ice isn't as common as Lightning, which the poor bastard's weak to.  Otherwise, Yukiko- with buffs.
Yosuke Hanamura- 3.85.  Variety is one of those things that I tend to get sold on.  Speed, durability, Suku, Confuse...well, he's honestly got enough variety for most things.  Having solid wind damage as his primary magic helps as well.
Yukiko Amagi - 3.66.  Bad physical durability, and ice weakness.  But nulls fire and resists lightning.  Those elements are very common in the DL.

Wild ARMS 5

Avril Vent Fleur - 2.80.  Pity she doesn't get the Sword Medium.  That one actually meshes with her ATK-focused stats and ARM.  I give her the claim to the Mountain Medium, anyway.
Carol Anderson - 3.20.  Her strategy is one-dimensional.  It's a lot better than the others so far.
Chuck Preston - 2.71.  Prism Staff at least gives him a chance at Intrude. ...that's about all you can say.
Dean Stark - 2.4. I don't give him any claim to Mediums.  He really is lacking without it.
Elvis - 4.32.  Weakest of the Sentinels.  That's not saying much, given that he's got durability and what seems to amount to Maximum Risk.  He despises solid non-Water elemental damage, though.
Fereydoon - 4.91.  Doesn't quite 3-2 average, and has subpar PDEF.  He also doesn't really care, given the combination of perfect ID and ITE ~1.25xPCHP overkill that is Laser Silhouette, and his assload of HP.  Wind's not even that common of an element in the DL.
Greg Russelberg - 3.15.  Sky Medium fits his ARM much better.  Though, given that he does have Sword Medium, it's safe to say he has some damage, at least.
Ice Queen Avril - 4.40.  4D Pocket, as Belial has demonstrated, is a brutal PC-killer trick, and she's got the speed to use it.  Hyper->Life Drain/Hi-Water/Hi-Blast hype works if that doesn't.
Kartikeya - 4.78.  Solid 2HKO wind damage, and his weakness is straight-out rare in the DL.  Counter hype helps as well.  His RES blows, though, and his special doesn't even OHKO reliably.
Nightburn Acklund - 3.54  Godlike theme song.  Still a good cut above the PCs.
Persephone - 5.00.  WA5's resident Boobinite happens to have the worst durability and only merely above-average spee--OH GOD OVER 2xPCHP ITE OVERKILL.
Rebecca Streisand - 2.53.  She's...faster than Dean, and her repeat-attack has a chance of triggering.  ...That's about all you can say about her.

[superaielman]

*Blinks* IS that IQA heavy vote a typo, Nama?

[074]

Eh.  I was a bit hasty in assigning values this time, admittedly.

[Bardiche]

CMDR_King has made me see the error of my ways. You are argument are very convincing.

All WA5 PCs go to Light, except Carol who goes to Middle, then.

Avril and Ice Queen Avril, eh, still different entities to me, so.

[Monkeyfinger]

Chie Satonaka: 3.75
Kanji Tatsumi: 3.75
Naoto Shirogane: 3.50
Souji Seta: 5.00
Teddie: 3.60
Yosuke Hanamura: 3.90
Yukiko Amagi: 3.30

[Talaysen]

Persona 4

Chie Satonaka - Low Heavy
Kanji Tatsumi - Low Heavy
Naoto Shirogane - Middle/Heavy
Souji Seta - Godlike
Teddie - Middle
Yosuke Hanamura - Middle/Heavy
Yukiko Amagi - Middle

Wild ARMS 5

Avril Vent Fleur - Light
Carol Anderson - High Middle
Chuck Preston - High Light
Dean Stark - Light
Elvis - Heavy
Fereydoon - Godlike
Greg Russelberg - High Middle
Ice Queen Avril - Low Godlike
Kartikeya - Heavy/Godlike
Nightburn Acklund - High Middle
Persephone - Godlike
Rebecca  Streisand - Light

[Tide]

Persona 4

Chie Satonaka - Low Heavy. Not seeing all the Miori shirt hype, but being able to "store" PC, along with decent base speed and damage certainly is passable
Kanji Tatsumi - High Middle. Really borderline. On one hand, awesome HP and damage. On the other hand, costs HP and he's slow as molasses
Naoto Shirogane - High Middle. Snow sums it up quite well. Unfortunately, I think her capability to spoil is a lot worse than Wugui though. Probably costs that border for me.
Souji Seta - (high) Godlike - loses to like 10 people in Godlike as per proving grounds with Skill inheretence. Yeah.
Teddie - Low Middle. See Yukiko. Replace Ice Weakness with Lightning. Worse set of resists too (Wind/Dark doesn't do as well as Thunder resist)
Yosuke Hanamura - Low Heavy. Funnily enough, Yosuke is probably not as hampered by having Souji in the averages since his entire thing is versitality. Weapons, skills...he has them.
Yukiko Amagi - Low Middle. Whee sluggish, low HP and Ice weakness >_>. Having Souji along in the average means her damage takes a hit and the speed is even worse. Yeah.

Wild ARMS 5

Avril Vent Fleur - Light. Can't really see this changing even if you gave her the medium
Carol Anderson - High Middle. Pretty sure I worked this out with Tal early on when the game was still relatively new. If you include the speed boost, the ITD Draining + possible status immunity makes her quite amusing for spoilage.
Chuck Preston - Low Middle. The one time he got into NR Light, it was pretty smooth sailing. Then again, NR Light. Still, thinking the damage boost along with speed certainly help. Also think he had Intrude to boot. Not champing or anything, but thinking too strong for Light.
Dean Stark - Light. Double Critical Hype. YESZ
Elvis - Heavy. Weaknesses cost him, although a few of them aren't as horrible in practice. His charge move being frue limity makes him comparatively worse. Fast and damaging though
Fereydoon - Godlike. Think he was the other Sentinel that had speed.
Greg Russelberg - High Middle. Sword Medium makes him more respectable certainly
Ice Queen Avril - Low Godlike. Fast 4D Pocket is probably at least Heavy. Having good damage and decent durability to go along with that though? Awesome
Kartikeya - Heavy/Godlike. Also comparatively less dangerous on charge move. Not bad though, but not as fast as Fereydoon or as badass as Pers. HP Helps out.
Nightburn Acklund - Middle. Certainly respect his HP less than some. Speed helps though
Persephone - Godlike. Isn't that fast on base speed. But has Quicken to boost it. And then 9000 WA5 PC damage. Aw yeah.
Rebecca  Streisand - Light. Continuous Shot is cute but no >_>

Yeah, my WA5 rankings are pretty much the same as Tal's. We worked this out pretty early IIRC

[Dark Holy Elf]

P4 Chie Satonaka Heavy 3.94
P4 Kanji Tatsumi Middle 3.71
P4 Naoto Shirogane Heavy 3.75
P4 Souji Seta Godlike 4.99
P4 Teddie Middle 3.32
P4 Yosuke Hanamura Heavy 3.87
P4 Yukiko Amagi Middle 3.43

WA5 Avril Vent Fleur Light 2.48
WA5 Carol Anderson Middle 3.10
WA5 Chuck Preston Light 2.65
WA5 Dean Stark Light 2.44
WA5 Elvis Godlike 4.57
WA5 Fereydoon Godlike 4.88
WA5 Greg Russelberg Middle 3.04
WA5 Ice Queen Avril Godlike 4.80
WA5 Kartikeya Godlike 4.70
WA5 Nightburn Acklund Middle 3.51
WA5 Persephone Godlike 4.92
WA5 Rebecca Streisand Light 2.36