Proving grounds 2-3 H/G- No witty comments this time.

[superaielman]

In:

Lassic: 44-16 73%
Fogel: 53-39 58%

Out:


Scias: 45-38 54%

Dumping the last four into this pool. Top two move on. Note: I had to reroll Season 2 for heavy since well, Dario and Cecil.

Artea (Lufia 2) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)
Artea vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9)
Artea vs Roufas (Saga)
Artea vs Geno (SMRPG)
Artea vs Claude Kenni (SO2)
Artea vs Alicia (VP2)
Artea vs Celes Chere (FF6)
Artea vs Feena (G1)
Artea vs Zero (MMXCM)
Artea vs Asellus (Saga)
Artea vs KOS-MOS (XS)
Artea vs Fenril (OB)

Ho-Oh (PKMN) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)
Ho-Oh vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9)
Ho-Oh vs Roufas (Saga)
Ho-Oh vs Geno (SMRPG)
Ho-Oh vs Claude Kenni (SO2)
Ho-Oh vs Alicia (VP2)
Ho-Oh vs Celes Chere (FF6)
Ho-Oh vs Feena (G1)
Ho-Oh vs Zero (MMXCM)
Ho-Oh vs Asellus (Saga)
Ho-Oh vs KOS-MOS (XS)
Ho-Oh vs Fenril (OB)

Ness (EB) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)
Ness vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9)
Ness vs Roufas (Saga)
Ness vs Geno (SMRPG)
Ness vs Claude Kenni (SO2)
Ness vs Alicia (VP2)
Ness vs Celes Chere (FF6)
Ness vs Feena (G1)
Ness vs Zero (MMXCM)
Ness vs Asellus (Saga)
Ness vs KOS-MOS (XS)
Ness vs Fenril (OB)

Lang (LoL2) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)
Lang vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9)
Lang vs Roufas (Saga)
Lang vs Geno (SMRPG)
Lang vs Claude Kenni (SO2)
Lang vs Alicia (VP2)
Lang vs Celes Chere (FF6)
Lang vs Feena (G1)
Lang vs Zero (MMXCM)
Lang vs Asellus (Saga)
Lang vs KOS-MOS (XS)
Lang vs Fenril (OB)

[superaielman]

Artea (Lufia 2) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)- Infinite resources. Don't think Chaz can do anything to stop that.
Artea vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9)- Resources. He can barely damage Steiner, but it doesn't matter.
Artea vs Roufas (Saga)- See above.
Artea vs Geno (SMRPG)- Don't think Geno can blitz effectively enough here without Whirl in play.
Artea vs Claude Kenni (SO2)- Physical stuns-->smash. Elemental resisting makes Artea's damage tank here.
Artea vs Alicia (VP2)- Eventual OHKO.
Artea vs Celes Chere (FF6)- Status.
Artea vs Feena (G1)- Should one round.
Artea vs Zero (MMXCM)- See above.
Artea vs Asellus (Saga)- Don't think she has the WP for this.
Artea vs KOS-MOS (XS)- S-chain screws up Artea's speed/accuracy too much here, I'd think.
Artea vs Fenril (OB)- Heal till double, poke, win very slowly.

Ho-Oh (PKMN) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)- Sure. PP means Chaz has some resource issues and the burn status does give Chaz some problems. Weird fight.
Ho-Oh vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9)- Fire nulling gives him the time to win with ID.
Ho-Oh vs Roufas (Saga)- Pressure should run Roufas out of JP in a hurry.
Ho-Oh vs Geno (SMRPG)- Whirl.
Ho-Oh vs Claude Kenni (SO2)- Burn works.
Ho-Oh vs Alicia (VP2)- Sunny day--Smash.
Ho-Oh vs Celes Chere (FF6)- Sure, I'll bite. Flare's ITD.
Ho-Oh vs Feena (G1)- Zap whip. Ouch.
Ho-Oh vs Zero (MMXCM)
Ho-Oh vs Asellus (Saga)
Ho-Oh vs KOS-MOS (XS)- S chain is the superior rape move here.
Ho-Oh vs Fenril (OB)- Kneejerking her as faster.

Lang (LoL2) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)- Elemental walling is not Chaz's friend.
Lang vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9)- Steiner can't avoid a limit.
Lang vs Roufas (Saga)- Can chip past a limit.
Lang vs Geno (SMRPG)- No whirl.
Lang vs Claude Kenni (SO2)- Can chip past a limit.
Lang vs Alicia (VP2)- Limit.
Lang vs Celes Chere (FF6)- Status.
Lang vs Feena (G1)- Elemental walling!
Lang vs Zero (MMXCM)
Lang vs Asellus (Saga)
Lang vs KOS-MOS (XS)- Think he can block the worst parts of Schain.
Lang vs Fenril (OB)- Should 2HKO.

[Ultradude]

Ho-Oh vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9)
Ho-Oh vs Geno (SMRPG)
Ho-Oh vs Celes Chere (FF6)
Ho-Oh vs KOS-MOS (XS)

[Random Consonant]

Artea (Lufia 2) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4) - Artea MDef makes Explode turn 2 but it's not like he's instadoubling or OHKOing. Ha to the Bunny Ring being legal.
Artea vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9) - Unless I'm missing something, Steiner can't get Holy resist ever.  Sucks for him.
Artea vs Roufas (Saga) - DeadEnd.
Artea vs Geno (SMRPG) - Whirl.
Artea vs Claude Kenni (SO2) - I still have no respect for SO2 stunlocking arguments.
Artea vs Celes Chere (FF6) - Ah yup.
Artea vs Feena (G1) - Smash
Artea vs Asellus (Saga) - What an ID heavy pool.
Artea vs KOS-MOS (XS) - I'll buy S-CHAIN hype.

Ho-Oh (PKMN) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4) - This is totally not Chaz's fight.
Ho-Oh vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9) - Steiner can null fire, though!
Ho-Oh vs Roufas (Saga) - Don't think Ho-Oh can do anything about DeadEnd.
Ho-Oh vs Geno (SMRPG) - Or Geno Whirl.
Ho-Oh vs Claude Kenni (SO2) - Kneejerking that he can scrounge up Fire resistance somewhere.  Ho-Oh gets one chance at inflicting Burn before Claude forces it into a heal-lock (with five shots of 50% healing.  Ha.)  (EDIT: I am an idiot, Recover has 20 PP in Gen3.) and it's turn 2 with Sacred Fire, which is his best shot at the status.  And this is assuming Claude can't evade it.  So no dice.  Or he can just equip the Sacred Tear and use Energy Sword until Ho-Oh runs out of his big damage.
Ho-Oh vs Celes Chere (FF6) - Easy.
Ho-Oh vs Feena (G1) - Zap Whip is pain.
Ho-Oh vs Asellus (Saga) - See Roufas.
Ho-Oh vs KOS-MOS (XS) - More S-CHAIN hype?  Sure, why not.

Ness (EB) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4) - Explode
Ness vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9) - Ness HP
Ness vs Roufas (Saga) - Well this is getting repetitive.
Ness vs Geno (SMRPG) - Whirl
Ness vs Claude Kenni (SO2) - Ness barely avoids a heal-lock.
Ness vs Celes Chere (FF6) - Status
Ness vs Feena (G1) - Tank
Ness vs Asellus (Saga) - This pool is WAY too ID heavy.
Ness vs KOS-MOS (XS) - Don't see S-CHAIN affecting PSI Rocking, but it probably doesn't matter?  I should probably think about this one.

[Cmdr_King]

As a note, Recover is at least 10 PP (it is in Gen 4.  I know it was 20 back in Gen 1, dunno when they changed there).  Doesn't change the match analysis if you don't see Ho-Oh as significantly faster though.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I think that was a Gen3->4 change, since Gen4 effectively said NO WE DO NOT WANT YOU TO STALL EVER YOU MUST HAVE OFFENCE AS YOUR ONLY STRATEGY OR THE KIDS WILL BE BORED.

Fuck competitive Gen4. <_<

[Random Consonant]

As a note, Recover is at least 10 PP (it is in Gen 4.  I know it was 20 back in Gen 1, dunno when they changed there).  Doesn't change the match analysis if you don't see Ho-Oh as significantly faster though.

I misread the stat topic.  My bad.

God I need to stop dicking around and replay pokemon at some point.

[Dhyerwolf]

Artea (Lufia 2) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)
Artea vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9)
Artea vs Roufas (Saga)
Artea vs Geno (SMRPG)
Artea vs Claude Kenni (SO2)- Physical+MS kills Artea
Artea vs Alicia (VP2)
Artea vs Celes Chere (FF6)
Artea vs Feena (G1)
Artea vs Zero (MMXCM)
Artea vs Asellus (Saga)
Artea vs KOS-MOS (XS)
Artea vs Fenril (OB)

Ho-Oh (PKMN) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)- A rare case where Ho'oh's Mdef will work as status protection to me!
Ho-Oh vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9)- Iai Strike winning a Heavy match?!
Ho-Oh vs Roufas (Saga)- ID
Ho-Oh vs Geno (SMRPG)
Ho-Oh vs Claude Kenni (SO2)- Claude can at least halve Burn, which should be enough here.
Ho-Oh vs Alicia (VP2)- Fairy Garb wins her this.
Ho-Oh vs Celes Chere (FF6)
Ho-Oh vs Feena (G1)- Lightning physical...
Ho-Oh vs Zero (MMXCM)- Just 2HKOs first, I think?
Ho-Oh vs Asellus (Saga)
Ho-Oh vs KOS-MOS (XS)
Ho-Oh vs Fenril (OB)

Ness (EB) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)
Ness vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9)
Ness vs Roufas (Saga)- The gut was that Roufas was a tad slow? If so, Ness statuses first.
Ness vs Geno (SMRPG)
Ness vs Claude Kenni (SO2)- Physical halving/reflecting at the least
Ness vs Alicia (VP2)
Ness vs Celes Chere (FF6)
Ness vs Feena (G1)
Ness vs Zero (MMXCM)- Status, phys shield+tanking
Ness vs Asellus (Saga)- See Roufas?
Ness vs KOS-MOS (XS)
Ness vs Fenril (OB)

Lang (LoL2) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)- Faster, ID walling, decent HP manipulation skills.
Lang vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9)
Lang vs Roufas (Saga)
Lang vs Geno (SMRPG)- Lang's 10% Regen means that even Geno Boosted Geno doesn't get the 2HKO.
Lang vs Claude Kenni (SO2)- Violater, speed, and regen, on top of Lang's already good HP.
Lang vs Alicia (VP2)
Lang vs Celes Chere (FF6)
Lang vs Feena (G1)- Lang lacks the lightning res, but the HP is enough to stop Feena's OHKO to me anyways.
Lang vs Zero (MMXCM)- Unsure on MMXCM mechanics here.
Lang vs Asellus (Saga)- Faster, ID blocking and good at getting his HP at the right levels.
Lang vs KOS-MOS (XS)- Violater+Speed
Lang vs Fenril (OB)

Lang 9-2 (Woah. Just has some nasty combos+walling that work damn well in Heavy).
Ness 9-3 (2 Less Wins if Saga Swordsmen are faster)
Artea 3-9 (Heavy, heavy ID field wants Bunny Ring)
Ho'oh 2-10

[DjinnAndTonic]

Artea (Lufia 2) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)
Artea vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9)
Artea vs Roufas (Saga)
Artea vs Geno (SMRPG)
Artea vs Claude Kenni (SO2)
Artea vs Alicia (VP2)
Artea vs Celes Chere (FF6)
Artea vs Feena (G1)
Artea vs Asellus (Saga)
Artea vs KOS-MOS (XS)
Artea vs Fenril (OB)

Ho-Oh (PKMN) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)
Ho-Oh vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9)
Ho-Oh vs Roufas (Saga)
Ho-Oh vs Geno (SMRPG)
Ho-Oh vs Claude Kenni (SO2)
Ho-Oh vs Alicia (VP2)
Ho-Oh vs Celes Chere (FF6)
Ho-Oh vs Feena (G1)
Ho-Oh vs Asellus (Saga)
Ho-Oh vs KOS-MOS (XS)
Ho-Oh vs Fenril (OB)

Ness (EB) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4)
Ness vs Aldelbert Steiner (FF9)
Ness vs Roufas (Saga)
Ness vs Geno (SMRPG)
Ness vs Claude Kenni (SO2)
Ness vs Alicia (VP2)
Ness vs Celes Chere (FF6)
Ness vs Feena (G1)
Ness vs Asellus (Saga)
Ness vs KOS-MOS (XS)
Ness vs Fenril (OB)

[hinode]

I think that was a Gen3->4 change, since Gen4 effectively said NO WE DO NOT WANT YOU TO STALL EVER YOU MUST HAVE OFFENCE AS YOUR ONLY STRATEGY OR THE KIDS WILL BE BORED.

In fairness Nintendo/Gamefreak only care about cartridge play, and 200 odd turns of stalling in a link match would get pretty tedious. Especially with animations mandatory as they are now ("every match is a stall match if sand/hail is in play").

Ho-Oh (PKMN) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4) - Fire resist. Too bad, Sunny Day->Fire Blast/Sacred Fire would win it otherwise, as Ho-oh can stave off Explode (which, incidentally checks mental and not mdef) for one turn at least.
Ho-Oh vs Roufas (Saga) - Roufas is a gunner in the DL for me. DeadEnd apparantly sucks anyhow so it doesn't really matter.
Ho-Oh vs Geno (SMRPG)
Ho-Oh vs Celes Chere (FF6) - Minerva, stalls Ho-oh out.
Ho-Oh vs Asellus (Saga) - She needs UnicornHeal to win this, I think. Lucky for her I allow it, at least for now.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Ho-Oh (PKMN) vs Chaz Ashley (PS4) - Fire resist. Too bad, Sunny Day->Fire Blast/Sacred Fire would win it otherwise, as Ho-oh can stave off Explode (which, incidentally checks mental and not mdef) for one turn at least.

Um, Mental is probably the primary stat for MDef operations in PS4 unless I'm horribly losing my mind. The fact it's both magic offense -and- defense doesn't change that. Pretty much the same as AtL Magic (or S1 Magic).

[Dark Holy Elf]

Mental is the base for MDef, but the two are still separate, particularly for enemies where the two are even listed separately in their descriptions. Explode does indeed check Mental.

hinode: That's very true, though if Nintendo really cared about length of cartridge matches, GETTING RID OF ANIMATIONS FOR WEATHER (not to mention stuff like Leftovers) would be the logical move.

Basically Nintendo sucks.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Mental is the base for MDef, but the two are still separate, particularly for enemies where the two are even listed separately in their descriptions. Explode does indeed check Mental.

Point taken. On the other hand, I'd definitely feel uneasy having an attack checking an offense stat for a save when that offensive stat still takes a role on the defensive stat totals for people hailing from other games. But standardizing status checks is something not many people do to begin with, and there's good reason not to, I guess.

[hinode]

Even if you assume Explode hits Ho-oh's special defense or otherwise runs out of uses, I'm not sure Ho-oh wins this. It can't 2HKO Ceramic Shield Chaz except with Sunny Day->Sacred Fire/Fire Blast, all of which have very limited PP (5 each, also 5 turns for Sunny Day), so there's no real hope of keeping pressure on Chaz. The whole fight then boils down to a very ugly resource war, of which I have no idea who wins without numbercrunching. Chaz at least should have better damage, since Ho-oh is stuck with Gust/Swift/Future Sight for moves with more than 5 PP.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Even if you assume Explode hits Ho-oh's special defense or otherwise runs out of uses, I'm not sure Ho-oh wins this.

I'm hardly arguing that. Don't think that's relevant for the match, since Chaz can hit Ho-oh's worse defense and resists the damage. Hard to argue with the healing. My bother was with the checks rather than the match itself.