Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 20

[Nephrite]

"Alas... let us begin again."

Team Taishyr vs. Floor 9
Team Sage vs. Floor 5
Team Monkey and Bardiche vs. Floor 4


Team Bardiche and Monkey's Matches

Floor 5c: Fly Me to the Moon

"So, you've found your way here. Very well, I think I'll make you fight some interesting people from beyond this terrestial plane."

Battle #21: Luna, Alex, Lucia and Ghaleon (EB/EBC Boss)

Luna: Alex...!
Alex: I will protect you, Luna!
Lucia: Ghaleon, I expect of you...
Ghaleon: Yes, yes... I'm aware.

Battle #22: Zeromus, Fusoya and Golbez

Zeromus: AS LONG AS THERE EXISTS DARKNESS OF THE HEARTS OF MORTALS...
Fusoya: Lunarians...
Golbez: I will defeat you.

Battle #23: Albedo and Virgil

Albedo: Let's go, ma peche.
Virgil: If you call me that one more time I'm going to kill you.

Battle #24: Dolan, Kevin and Lugar

Dolan: I don't get any lines. :T
Kevin: Kevin think this fun!
Lugar: HRRR!!

Boss Battle #5: Orgulla and Margulis

Orgulla: Sir, that wasn't a moon, that was a planet!
Margulis: We'll destroy them all with our DS system.



Team Consonant and Djinn's Matches

Floor 1: A Re-introduction (The Beginning)

"Ho ho ho ho! You've decided to return! Let us see what you can accomplish."

Battle #1: Palmer and Mist Dragon

Palmer: Muahaha! I am Science!!
Mist Dragon: Turn back!

Battle #2: Steelix, Shuckle and FF1 Knight

Knight: You shall not pass here!

Battle #3: Marle, Alice and FFT Priest

Marle: Yeah! Let's go!
Alice: Yuri...

Battle #4: Lich

Lich: I will... devour you...

Boss Battle #1: Change Relic

*The team has been fully healed!

"Welcome to Monado Mandala! Here, you shall die!"


---------------------------------------------

Team Bardiche | Deis2, Eileen (MT), Lucian & Shiho, Eiko, Nall
[Floor 5c: Fly me to the Moon]
Team Bardiche vs. Luna, Alex, Lucia, Ghaleon (EB/EBC)
Team Bardiche vs. Zeromus (FF4), FuSoYa and Golbez (FF4DS, No plot paralysis)
Team Bardiche vs. XS1 Albedo and XS1 Virgil
Team Bardiche vs. Dolan, Kevin and Lugar
*Full Heal
Team Bardiche vs. Orgulla and Margulis (XS2)

Team Monkey | Jessica, Mew (Firefly), Rosa, Lucian & Shiho
[Floor 5c: Fly me to the Moon]
Team Monkey vs. Luna, Alex, Lucia, Ghaleon (EB/EBC)
Team Monkey vs. Zeromus (FF4), FuSoYa and Golbez (FF4DS, No plot paralysis)
Team Monkey vs. XS1 Albedo and XS1 Virgil
Team Monkey vs. Dolan, Kevin and Lugar
*Full Heal
Team Monkey vs. Orgulla and Margulis (XS2)

Team Consonant | Celes, Alys, Lucian & Shiho, Ayla (Life)
[Floor 1: An Introduction]
Team Consonant vs. Palmer and Mist Dragon
Team Consonant vs. Steelix, Shuckle and FF1 Knight
Team Consonant vs. Marle, Alice and FFT Priest
Team Consonant vs. Lich (FF1)
*Full Heal
Team Consonant vs. Change Relic

Team Djinn | Cloud, Raquel, Yulie, Aika  (Violent Burst Law)
[Floor 1: An Introduction]
[Materia: Cover (Unmastered)]
Team Djinn vs. Palmer and Mist Dragon
Team Djinn vs. Steelix, Shuckle and FF1 Knight
Team Djinn vs. Marle, Alice and FFT Priest
Team Djinn vs. Lich (FF1)
*Full Heal
Team Djinn vs. Change Relic


Multitarget - One person on the team's actions all become Multitargetted. However, the damage of regular attacks, the healing of all spells that restore HP or MP, the status rates of status spells or attacks and the effect of buffs or debuffs (rounded down to the nearest half point in the case of Pokemon) is reduced to 50% of the original base chance. (For example, Deadly Fingertips has a max 50% chance of hitting all targets.) This applies even if there is only one opponent left.

Life - One character's healing effects now also allows for revival, but reduces the final effect of any healing by 50%. (This means full healing is always 50%) The healing also only revives characters with 1 HP.

Violent Burst Law - Characters with game-specific gauges begin each floor with them at 100%. They charge at 50% of their normal rates.

[DjinnAndTonic]

Note that my team should be Cloud (Cover), Raquel, Aika, Tear, Aeris w/ Violent Burst Law.

[Clear Tranquil]

Q do Aeris and Cloud start this floor with Cross Slash + Seal Evil or just get them by the later floors or what? =-)

[Yoshiken]

If Omnislash/Great Gospel are F7, then they'd definitely get them on this floor. Early Limits are much easier to learn than later ones, due to lower numbers of uses/kills to get them. If you see them as post-F7, then probably not.

[Bardiche]

Djinn and Consonant pass. That's a no-brainer.

My and Monkey's matches... well, I blame mine on Hatbot. Please punish that dastardly thing.

Since I don't know Xenosaga that well (apparently this is a good thing for Shionrespect), I'm just going to argue the fights I know.

Team Bardiche | Deis2, Eileen (MT), Lucian & Shiho, Eiko, Nall
[Floor 5c: Fly me to the Moon]
Team Bardiche vs. Luna, Alex, Lucia, Ghaleon (EB/EBC) - A cute fight, but not really threatening. Just takes a few resources, arguably.

Since Luna is a danger, Deis drops ID on her first. No Cascade Songs, no MT Sleep, final destination. Eileen uses her turn to cast Copper Flesh on everyone.

Now, either Alex and Ghaleon outspeed Eileen or not, but they drop RDA + Purple Circle. RDA doesn't kill anyone outright, but Purple Circle probably drops Shiho or Eiko if he targets them. And that's not good. If Eileen outspeeds both of them, though, Copper Flesh to the rescue! If she outspeeds only Alex, I still avoid a demise, but someone is paralysed.

Let's say Eiko, forcing Shiho to either Heal or Normalise. Let's also assume Eileen's Copper Flesh was just a tad too late, so Shiho is forced to Heal or else people die. Lucian busts out damage against Lucia to kill her, since otherwise she'd just heal.

Deis's turn comes up again. Can she ID twice in a row? If she can, Alex drops like a bag. If not, Deis concentrates on blowing damage in Alex's direction. Alex and Ghaleon repeat their routine, possibly Purple Circling Shiho. Meanwhile, Lucian runs down Alex.

Ghaleon VS my team. He's... not quite winning that, I don't think. He'll probably kill Eiko/Shiho or maybe both of them, but due to the Copper Flesh buffing, I somehow doubt he can end both. At worst, Shiho dies, but Nall picks her up before the next fight and Eiko makes sure all non-Shihoes are at full health.

Team Bardiche vs. Zeromus (FF4), FuSoYa and Golbez (FF4DS, No plot paralysis) - There's some delicious Copper Flesh here. FuSoYa is too slow to make a difference against Lucian's unfaltering strength, and thanks to Copper Flesh no one (except maybe Shiho) dies. Golbez hurts Eileen's MP, making her useless for the rest of the floor... but Eiko picks up Shiho with revival, Shiho heals herself and Lucian and Deis make sure Golbez isn't hitting another of them with MP bust. Or was it Zeromus doing the MP bust? Whatever.
Team Bardiche vs. XS1 Albedo and XS1 Virgil - Don't know these two enough to vote on 'em.
Team Bardiche vs. Dolan, Kevin and Lugar - Can't really say. Inclined to say Deis just buffs Lucian and lets him take care of them one by one to avoid Lugar counters. Maybe cast Death to clean away Kevin?? Dolan is a bit annoying but once he goes down Lugar may not be able to do much? Ehhhhhh.
*Full Heal
Team Bardiche vs. Orgulla and Margulis (XS2)

[Random Consonant]

I'd peg the second Lv1 Limits as floor 1 as well.

Team Bardiche | Deis2, Eileen (MT), Lucian & Shiho, Eiko, Nall
[Floor 5c: Fly me to the Moon]
Team Bardiche vs. Luna, Alex, Lucia, Ghaleon (EB/EBC) - Deis drops Alex, Lucian drops Luna, Eileen throws up CF, which I'm assuming cuts damage by 50% thanks to the Sealstone.  Purple Circle probably brings down someone frail, but only one.  It's a bit of a drain, but the team should pull through.
Team Bardiche vs. Zeromus (FF4), FuSoYa and Golbez (FF4DS, No plot paralysis) - Simple enough.
Team Bardiche vs. XS1 Albedo and XS1 Virgil - Okay, Albedo is fast (and can buff his speed as well) and can bust someone's MP entirely, along with confusing them  EDIT: The MP busting is tied to a limit?  Never mind then, this is a slaughter.
Team Bardiche vs. Dolan, Kevin and Lugar - CF to take care of Spiral Moon shenanigans, Death to take out Kevin, Lugar fails forever since the team isn't triggering his counters.
*Full Heal
Team Bardiche vs. Orgulla and Margulis (XS2) - Works.

Team Monkey | Jessica, Mew (Firefly), Rosa, Lucian & Shiho
[Floor 5c: Fly me to the Moon]
Team Monkey vs. Luna, Alex, Lucia, Ghaleon (EB/EBC)
Team Monkey vs. Zeromus (FF4), FuSoYa and Golbez (FF4DS, No plot paralysis)
Team Monkey vs. XS1 Albedo and XS1 Virgil
Team Monkey vs. Dolan, Kevin and Lugar
*Full Heal
Team Monkey vs. Orgulla and Margulis (XS2) - Sure, the MT buffing carries the day here.

Team Consonant | Celes, Alys, Lucian & Shiho, Ayla (Life)
[Floor 1: An Introduction]
Team Consonant vs. Palmer and Mist Dragon - Palmer and Misty.
Team Consonant vs. Steelix, Shuckle and FF1 Knight - Simple enough.  Get rid of Knight first.  If I can't pull it off in one turn, Shiho dies but Ayla kisses her back to life so it's no biggie.
Team Consonant vs. Marle, Alice and FFT Priest - Bwahaha.  Marle and Alice die before they see turns.  Priest cannot accomplish anything on her own.
Team Consonant vs. Lich (FF1) - Fairly confident in my team's ability to get through this painlessly.
*Full Heal
Team Consonant vs. Change Relic - Magarula is nasty, I'll grant that.  However, I've been given the impression that AGI is worthless for determining P3 speed, at least on the boss end.  Could be wrong, but either way, my team should manage this.

Abstain on Team Djinn, don't know enough of his team.

[Monkeyfinger]

Team Monkey | Jessica, Mew (Firefly), Rosa, Lucian & Shiho
[Floor 5c: Fly me to the Moon]
Team Monkey vs. Luna, Alex, Lucia, Ghaleon (EB/EBC): Light screen stops any sort of MT damage blitz. Hold on one of the girls and Lucian beatdown on the other stop them from getting turns. Alex and Ghaleon can kill Mew with their blitz but everyone else survives, gets hasted by Jess and healed by Shiho, then Alex falls in short order and Rosa can easily toss Mew a revive.
Team Monkey vs. Zeromus (FF4), FuSoYa and Golbez (FF4DS, No plot paralysis): Easy blitz. Golbez gets one osmose off on Mew, that's the only notable hiccup.
Team Monkey vs. XS1 Albedo and XS1 Virgil: Safeguard makes virgil a joke and Albedo doesn't need the help.
Team Monkey vs. Dolan, Kevin and Lugar: Light screen to the rescue again. Again, Mew dies because he can't protect himself, but he gets off a light screen and buys his team enough time to haste/heal/kill kevin. Dolan can't do this alone.
*Full Heal
Team Monkey vs. Orgulla and Margulis (XS2): Insulate makes a mockery out of this one. After that's cast, Rosa can just keep healing Mew to keep him alive while Lucian and Mew get might reinforces and beat the crap out of Orgulla, then Margulis.

Reminder: Mew's big 3 buffs (safeguard, reflect, lightscreen) are all MT.

New teams pass. Consonant uses attrition, Djinn uses savage offense.

Abstain on Bard for now. If I'm reading the MT stone rules right, Copper Flesh has only a 50% chance to affect each teammate, right?

[SnowFire]

Team Bardiche | Deis2, Eileen (MT), Lucian & Shiho, Eiko, Nall
[Floor 5c: Fly me to the Moon]
Team Bardiche vs. Luna, Alex, Lucia, Ghaleon (EB/EBC)
I'm not sure the IDing Luna is a good idea here - can't Lucian handle that?  Luna is below average speed, after all.  Or at worst Lucian + Eiko if Lucia gets off a defensive buff or something.  IDing Alex seems like a much, much more pertinent threat here since not only can he RDA, he can also White Dragon Protect which is also Very Bad.  And...  wait, Copper Flesh gets ALL damage?  I thought it was only physical damage.  I guess it's been MTed, so it's 50% damage to everyone, but that is still awesome.  So yeah, never mind, this isn't a problem fight no matter what - Bardiche's healers can keep up and Ghaleon can only spam ST Paralysis.  Maybe if Alex had time for double-Vigor Sword Dances the team could mount an offense, but I see why Bardiche wanted to ID Luna.

Team Bardiche vs. Zeromus (FF4), FuSoYa and Golbez (FF4DS, No plot paralysis)
Golbez's MP bust is really terrible according to the stat topic, so I'm sure he doesn't get to live long enough to use it repeatedly.  Zeromus has to get too lucky on his Big Bangs as usual and Copper Flesh / Atk-Up make him have to waste turns Black Holing.

Team Bardiche vs. XS1 Albedo and XS1 Virgil
I don't think Bardiche's team has an answer to Virgil's Slow?  Not sure if FF9 Esuna does anything to Haste / Slow, though Normalize has a better argument.  Not too important, as XS1 Slow isn't that bad anyway.  Buff Lucian's attack, and bust past Albedo's limit phase without letting him get a turn (Albedo's pretty elementally resistant so Lucian's the man here).  Virgil can throw out some Stops in his second form, possibly more if Boost shenanigans are used?  Still, he needs to stop pretty much everyone non-Lucian (if we let VP Normalize remove Stop), so think Bardiche can squeak by thanks to scaled HP.

Team Bardiche vs. Dolan, Kevin and Lugar
MT'd Copper Flesh + ID Kevin + outheal Dolan?  Sounds good to me.

*Full Heal
Team Bardiche vs. Orgulla and Margulis (XS2)
Eiko apparently has access to the Dark Hat for Fire / Ice / Lightning halving.  Also MT'd Copper Flesh.  The damage is scary enough to still kill one person once Orgulla maxes the boost gauge, but they need to kill two people a chain to get anywhere thanks to Eiko / Shiho both being revivers.

[SnowFire]

Team Monkey | Jessica, Mew (Firefly), Rosa, Lucian & Shiho
[Floor 5c: Fly me to the Moon]
Team Monkey vs. Luna, Alex, Lucia, Ghaleon (EB/EBC)
Hmm...  so long as Lucian kills Luna, Light Screen does probably stop Ghaleon's big MT damage + Alex's Flash Cut from being fatal.  Rosa can heal it up every turn.  So Alex Sword Dances Mew instead to kill him, but then Jessica's had time to Accelerate.  I guess Ghaleon has to try and paralyze Shiho next to stop Normalize?  But Alex should be dying round 2, and I'm sure Rosa has some Esuna variant.

Team Monkey vs. Zeromus (FF4), FuSoYa and Golbez (FF4DS, No plot paralysis)
Rosa tanks Zeromus's Big Bang pretty decently in game IIRC.  Kill the Lunarians first, then Zeromus as usual while forcing him to waste Black Holes.

Team Monkey vs. XS1 Albedo and XS1 Virgil
Safeguard is MT?  Right.  Oomphed Lucian probably OHKOs Albedo.

Team Monkey vs. Dolan, Kevin and Lugar
I'm not sure the team can afford to kill Kevin for sure turn 1 if Mew is Light Screening, but if Kevin gets tiebreaked for over Lucian / Shiho then Shiho just Heals Kevin's damage.  I definitely see Dolan as losing tiebreaks since in-game he slowly saunters up and gives you time to buff; arguably he should be even slower than average turn 1.  With Spiral Moon's damage nerfed, that leaves Body Change hype countered by Esuna / Normalize.

*Full Heal
Team Monkey vs. Orgulla and Margulis (XS2)
Uh, there's no earthly way Mew is surviving here - old Firefly nukes any elemental resistance, so he doesn't get the benefit of Insulate - so Margulis should cleanly 2-3HKO him, and he'll have 4 turns to work with once the Boost Gague is maxed (reminder: Margulis's damage doesn't fail once he starts getting the elemental-chain and Down bonus).  Problem is, come Orgulla's next turn and next boost maxing, one of them needs to kill both Rosa & Shiho at the same time.  Which would be doable without Insulate, but isn't with it.  And doubleturning hype is mostly counteracted by Jess's Accelerate.  Orgulla is crazy durable but yeah, Monkeyfinger's team has the needed time to take her down here.

[Bardiche]

I'm not sure the IDing Luna is a good idea here - can't Lucian handle that?  Luna is below average speed, after all.  

I scale Luna against Alex/Ramus/Luna/Nash averages for the time when she leaves, where she's 9 speed against a 8.75 avg... and thus a bit faster than Lucian. Just a little, but enough.

Abstain on Bard for now. If I'm reading the MT stone rules right, Copper Flesh has only a 50% chance to affect each teammate, right?

No, it just halves all damage for three turns. Otherwise I would be completely immune on turn 2 for the entire team, which... while it would be a fun thing to hype (I WIN ON TURN 2), it's probably not very good for people's moods. lol

And...  wait, Copper Flesh gets ALL damage?  I thought it was only physical damage.  I guess it's been MTed, so it's 50% damage to everyone, but that is still awesome.

I may be wrong. Someone kindly correct me if I am.

[Magic Fanatic]

Should also be noted that Copper Flesh also blocks healing in its full effect as well (it's more an effective Lock-HP state instead of an actually immunity to damage, it seems).  So...  Yeah.  The healing is also half as effective as normal.  Not to mention the question of how many charges of Copper Flesh Eileen has at this point...  4?  Maybe 5?  And she's spending 2 a fight at a minimum?

Assuming equal MGC points per level-up, Eileen has 126 MGC...  Which means, for Spell Slots at this point...  7/5/3/0.  However, knowing Suikoden stat-ups like I think I do, her MGC is probably closer to 135 or 140, giving her any one of the possible allowance of skill slots:

131 MGC - 7/5/4/1
141 MGC - 8/5/4/1
144 MGC - 8/5/4/2
146 MGC - 8/6/4/2

If you see it as higher, here's the rest (and the stats to the end of the game):

151 MGC - 8/6/5/2
156 MGC - 8/6/5/3
161 MGC - 8/7/5/3
166 MGC - 8/7/6/3
171 MGC - 9/7/6/4
176 MGC - 9/8/6/4
184 MGC - 9/8/6/5
190 MGC - 9/8/7/5
196 MGC - 9/9/7/5

In any case, assuming AVERAGE MGC stat growth for Eileen (and level 41 or level 42) she has somewhere between 135 and 138 MCG.  She can increase this by 15 with the Guard Robe, with the trade-off of losing 15 Defense from having the Guard Robe equipped instead of the Magic Robe from Antei.

Note, I think these numbers are very close to fair, as the average growths actually have Eileen end up with 180 or 181 base MGC going by this average growth (compared to the stat topic's 177 by endgame).

I'll vote later, after seeing more of the other arguments.

[Random Consonant]

Should also be noted that Copper Flesh also blocks healing in its full effect as well (it's more an effective Lock-HP state instead of an actually immunity to damage, it seems).  So...  Yeah.  The healing is also half as effective as normal.  Not to mention the question of how many charges of Copper Flesh Eileen has at this point...  4?  Maybe 5?  And she's spending 2 a fight at a minimum?

True that it's halving his healing, but that doesn't really matter a whole lot, as Shiho and Eiko are quite able to heal the damage the team suffers under CF.  Secondly... how is Bard blowing two charges of CF a fight?  He only needs it for the first, fouth, and fifth fights, and he's coming off of a full heal for the fifth.  Lucian can blow past Zeromus easily enough unless you have obscenely high respect for his HP, and the XS1 fight isn't that dangerous (Albedo's worst stuff is tied to a HP limit, Virgil isn't great at damage.)  Lastly, CF lasts for a decent amount of time, and I'm not seeing these fights lasting long enough for Bard to need to use two at minimum.

[Magic Fanatic]

With the hype that Bard and Snow were throwing out about Copper Flesh shenanigans during the fight with Zeromus (and possibly with the XS fight), and with the max spell slot being 9 (with Copper Flesh being an L3 spell)...  Just thought I'd say something.  I can't really say for sure that I know how bad the offense/durability is for the teams...  But what happens when Ghaleon hits Eileen up with Paralysis and Alex Sword Dances Eiko?

Eh, I'm probably analyzing this really badly.

[Bardiche]

With the hype that Bard and Snow were throwing out about Copper Flesh shenanigans during the fight with Zeromus (and possibly with the XS fight), and with the max spell slot being 9 (with Copper Flesh being an L3 spell)...  Just thought I'd say something.  I can't really say for sure that I know how bad the offense/durability is for the teams...  But what happens when Ghaleon hits Eileen up with Paralysis and Alex Sword Dances Eiko?

Copper Flesh does indeed not have a lot of charges. I probably have 3 or 4 at this point?

If Ghaleon hits Eileen with Paralysis and Alex Sword Dances Eiko, then Eiko heals herself or summons something: Alex's RDA is stronger than Sword Dance, and Eiko takes 104% physical damage. I... don't think he'll OHKO her. :p

Meanwhile Shiho heals away Eileen's ailment, and then Alex and Ghaleon are up against my team. That's certainly not a viable option for them.


... Copper Flesh halving healing makes me go orz a little. Just a little. ;_;

[Clear Tranquil]

ORZ

I ttlly forgot about that for the earlier floors! Oh well at least full Copper Flesh is only ST >_>

 

Abstain on Bard for now. If I'm reading the MT stone rules right, Copper Flesh has only a 50% chance to affect each teammate, right?

Neph's old definition of the MT stone yeah~

[dude789]

Bard passes, Monkey fails, new teams pass.