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Author Topic: 3DS  (Read 2223 times)

metroid composite

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3DS
« on: March 24, 2010, 06:25:35 AM »
So...Nintendo has announced it's next generation handheld.  Here's what we know for sure:

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2010/100323e.pdf

Relevant points are...

* 3D without the use of glasses (and Nintendo started buying hologram companies something like 6-9 years ago, so this is believable).
* Release date before March 11, 2011
* Backwards compatible with DS and DSi games.

Additionally, unconfirmed rumors on the internet say

* About as powerful as a Gamecube (graphics card nVidia Tegra)
* Force Feedback
* Accelerometer
* Joystick
* Playable at E3

I find some of these rumors pretty unbelievable (force feedback for one--that chews through batteries and...well...the thing that's vibrating would be attached to your screen which sounds annoying).  Then again, I'm a little surprised about DSi backwards compatibility (this forces it to have two cameras).  Athough...one of the currently known 3D screen technologies uses cameras to track the viewer's head, and focuses the hologram on the viewer's position; so they might have wanted the player-facing camera regardless.

Interesting, anyway.  About time someone ventured back into the realm of 3D (it's been, what, 15 years since the Virtual Boy?)

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: 3DS
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2010, 06:43:22 AM »
Virtual Boy is probably why it's been 15 years. <.<

Interested to see how this 3D works out.

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Re: 3DS
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2010, 09:11:22 PM »
The whole warmed-over 3D craze has still failed to make me give a flying fuck. Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe it'll make for a good gameplay mechanic but I kinda doubt it.
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Re: 3DS
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2010, 09:48:21 PM »
The whole warmed-over 3D craze has still failed to make me give a flying fuck. Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe it'll make for a good gameplay mechanic but I kinda doubt it.

Pretty much agree with this.
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metroid composite

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Re: 3DS
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2010, 09:54:57 PM »
Virtual Boy is probably why it's been 15 years. <.<

Possibly, although it might also just be the current state of 3D.  Suddenly we're getting high profile 3D movies on a somewhat regular basis, and at GDC there were some PC games running on a 3D screen.  Although, granted, both of these require polarized glasses.

It's interesting--3D is a pretty easy effect to get if you're willing to sacrifice something (there were 3D movies in the 60s) but it usually has less desirable downsides, like eyestrain, wearing stupid glasses, and/or sacrificing colour.

This one...will surely be in colour, and has already said "no glasses".  The relevant questions on my mind are eyestrain and viewing angle.  I would assume after the Virtual Boy they're going to everything possible to avoid eyestrain.  Viewing angle, though?  I wouldn't hold my breath about being able to watch over someone's shoulder.

The whole warmed-over 3D craze has still failed to make me give a flying fuck. Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe it'll make for a good gameplay mechanic but I kinda doubt it.

In general no: 3D is shiny, that's all it is.

Hmm...only possible exception that jumps to mind offhand is...short-range combat in First Person games has typically sucked, as it's hard to judge accurately whether you're in range to kick.  Depth perception might help.

Dhyerwolf

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Re: 3DS
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2010, 09:00:09 PM »
In terms of movie, 3-D popularity is something that seems to surface cyclicly. I spoke to my boss about it, and he remembers them from back when he was a teenager (Early 50s!). Granted, even if this turned out gimmicky, backwards compatibility might save it. On the other hand, a handheld system feels like the wrong one for 3D anyways. If the goal is to be immersive, working with a smaller screen and limited hardware seems like it would be a drag.
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metroid composite

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Re: 3DS
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2010, 11:01:30 PM »
On the other hand, a handheld system feels like the wrong one for 3D anyways. If the goal is to be immersive, working with a smaller screen and limited hardware seems like it would be a drag.

Portable works well for early-adoption 3D because it makes sure you have both the 3D screens and the processor to support 3D.  A console where you also had to buy a 3DTV would be...unattractive to game developers, as not a lot of consumers would buy both.

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Re: 3DS
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2010, 03:40:49 AM »

Portable works well for early-adoption 3D because it makes sure you have both the 3D screens and the processor to support 3D.  A console where you also had to buy a 3DTV would be...unattractive to game developers, as not a lot of consumers would buy both.

This is very important.  You can buy 3D capable TVs today (anything with refresh rate of 120 Hz should do it with the current Real 3D tech they are using with the polarizing lenses) but much like Plasma/HD TVs they are going to take years before they penetrate the market any more than the extreme early adopters/technophiles.  Having it as a standalone self contained device that is small so doesn't take up a large amount of space (and keeps cost down maybe?) is easilly one of the best ways to have it get a part of the market.
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Re: 3DS
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2010, 12:30:11 AM »
Aside from the aforementioned 1st-person melee issue, the only thing I can think of 3D being good for in games is giving you a better sense of positioning, height and angle when rebounding in a basketball game...

... but even holodeck-perfect 3D on a tiny-ass DS screen wouldn't make that easier, or playable, compared to 2D on a TV.

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Re: 3DS
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2010, 09:14:06 PM »
It's cute but completely unnecessary and will probably end up with half the programmers not coding for it anyways. Although considering Nintendo is doing it, first party games will almost surely use it a fair deal in rather entertaining ways, as they've done well with every other gimmick so far.

Kinda like the touch screen but far easier to ignore and not actually useful for any gameplay mechanics.

At least, that's my theory.

It wouldn't be the first time a gimmick has been largely ignored, see PS3's motion controls.

As to the rest...hah, GC powerful. Sure, Nintendo has been known to make the most powerful handhelds on the market. There was the Gameb-...um, Gameboy Col-....er....the D.... GBA was the only one that ever led the market, and that was by default-it had no competition.

GC-levels of power strikes me as way too high of a guess, particularly as the DS is strikingly low power(Overall less than a third of the PSP and the poly counts are hideous comparatively.). I'd bet on something more PSP level, maybe a bit lower. Might be being too under-generous to Nintendo, they *have* been making a lot of cash lately and the thing holding them back *has* been processor power, for dominating the market.

Forcefeedback/Accelerometer... sure, believable as hell, Wiimote has both. Doesn't bode well for the base cost being as cheap as the DS, but 200$-250$ for a DS is still on the reasonable side for a launch console. I suspect that the eating through batteries part may be not considered too major. Honestly, relatively few people seem to complain about the PSP, and that's a battery hog. So I dunno, I can see it. Then again, it's a logical enough addition that indeed someone may have just BSed it up. So, who knows.

How would you fit a joystick though? Would you ditch the closeable clamshell-type design? Meh. Some kind of PSP-type nub thing maybe, but those aren't much fun to use anyhow(Which is why PSP games so often use it as a secondary control option or default to D-Pad and use it like the C-Stick on an N64.).
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metroid composite

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Re: 3DS
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2010, 02:06:02 AM »
It's cute but completely unnecessary and will probably end up with half the programmers not coding for it anyways.

I'm kinda assuming any game that's rendering in 3D will use it, actually.  Assuming Nintendo has decent software development tools, you should be able to just give it polygons and have it render--your standard hardware Z-buffer ALREADY stores depth.

This isn't a gameplay change, it's a graphics change.  Most development studios have people dedicated to graphics--artists, animators, graphics programmers.  It's not like a new input--there's definitely gaming studios that don't have people dedicated to thinking up whole new innovative gameplay ideas (see, oh, say, GameFreak, EA Sports, and...most of modern developers, to be honest).

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GC-levels of power strikes me as way too high of a guess, particularly as the DS is strikingly low power(Overall less than a third of the PSP and the poly counts are hideous comparatively.). I'd bet on something more PSP level, maybe a bit lower.

PSP and GC are relatively close in power, you realize.  GC's better, yes, but not monumentally so.  And at any rate, if past history is to be believed then it's quite possible to release a portable with about equivalent power to an earlier system roughly 5 years after that system comes out...which means that hypothetically someone could release a portable with roughly X360 processing power...about nowish.  Basically, a portable with GC level processing power released now is still aggressively behind-the-curve.

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Re: 3DS
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2010, 10:20:59 AM »
I'm kinda assuming any game that's rendering in 3D will use it, actually.  Assuming Nintendo has decent software development tools, you should be able to just give it polygons and have it render--your standard hardware Z-buffer ALREADY stores depth.

This isn't a gameplay change, it's a graphics change.  Most development studios have people dedicated to graphics--artists, animators, graphics programmers.  It's not like a new input--there's definitely gaming studios that don't have people dedicated to thinking up whole new innovative gameplay ideas (see, oh, say, GameFreak, EA Sports, and...most of modern developers, to be honest).

Just to hammer this point home, here is a list of games out right now on PC that support Real 3D technology already.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/3D_Vision_3D_Games.html

Note that some of these are like 4+ years old (Oldest I noticed off the top of my head in a quick look at the first few letters was Driv3r at 2005).  Games already ARE 3D, it is mostly just enhancing existing illusions of depth.

However it will take some innovation to use it well I am sure, but the same goes for Cinema.

On portable systems and power, it is just a question of price and market penetration as always.  Even the PSP was not super super aggressive for potential, but it was definitely questionable on a marketable level (and Sony shot themselves in the foot by trying to peddle UMD movies).
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