Author Topic: List topic Round 1 Week 2- Moppy, RAGE, and floating pillows in Heavy!  (Read 3449 times)

SnowFire

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Re: List topic Round 1 Week 2- Moppy, RAGE, and floating pillows in Heavy!
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2010, 10:13:03 PM »
On Sephy: To be clear, I'm definitely one of those who turn their nose up at his damage.  You can easily have 10-14 materia slots per character endgame, and you only need so many spell damage materia.  Thus, not using *at least* 2 HP Plus strikes me as weird, and I often had enough irrelevant slots that I just tossed in some extra +10% lvl. 1 HP Plus materia that'd split off from masters because why not.  Ubering your HP is the easiest and most intuitive way to make your party better, and it's storebought, so uh yeah.  I had 8,000+ HP on everyone no problem.  And back row, of course (Long Range on a physical beater isn't a problem by endgame).  So Sephy's physical is merely okay, and Shadow Flare is 70% PCHP or so.

On the bright side, I also assume you basically charge Sephiroth outright and don't have much in the way of ultimate weaponry or super-broken materia (like mastered Double Cut being Quad Cut), so Seph's HP is pretty good to me.  In some ways the durability is more important than the damage, because that gives Sephiroth the time to Fly->Supernova, or even just Wall.  Important against, say, PCs faster than him who can't 2HKO him.

While posting, might as well do at least one division...

Light:
(Gogo (FF6) - Okay, I'll minorly rant here.  Gogo should be reranked to Heavy.  Thinking as a voter for a moment, if I see Gogo ranked in Light, the obvious assumption is that he has no skills.  If he was in Heavy, then skills are legal.  While I prefer Gogo with skills, I already defer to DL interpretations on some characters for the sake of consistency, and thus if he's in Light I'd vote on skilless Gogo, as massive interp splits are no fun - Gogo in Middle would entirely be a "how do you vote Gogo" deal for example, and I wouldn't want Gogo to upgrade that way.  Ugh.  Just, skilless Gogo is...  why even bother ranking him?  It's not true to the game and he (she?) is a completely boring dueler this way.  Even with just Tools/ Runic  / Slots Gogo's interesting, and I think I'd let him have the full suite.  Well, with the usual asterisk that Rage would just be Gau's starting Rages, but that's a whole different interp question.)
1. Sten (BoF2)
2. Joker (S3) - Is sorta okay for Light.
3. Tempest (Lunar:SSSC) - Blah.
4. Garcia (FE8) - He can double enemies in FE8 fine!  Not really in the DL.  Still not terrible regardless.
5. Melody Vilente (WA3) - Don't really respect her barrier much, as think I'd force her to use her later form.
6. Gares (OB) - Is very thankful his earlygame boss form exists (before Princesses / storebought Tarots / uberbroken PCs), as his endgame form would bottom the list.
7. Reis Dular (FFT) - Is a weird healer-buster who isn't good at it?
8. Malak Galthana (FFT) - Weird spoiler?  I guess?
9. Lucied (WAs) - Needs durability.
10. Gogo - See above, he SHOULD be #1 but in Light I'd probably vote him sans skills.

A few Suikoscrubs I technically could vote on but didn't really use left off (Hervey, Tai Ho) because darned if I can figure out what they'd be like endgame.

Nephrite

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Re: List topic Round 1 Week 2- Moppy, RAGE, and floating pillows in Heavy!
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2010, 11:21:00 PM »
Godlike:

1: Souji Seta (Pers4) - Yeah, okay. Esp. since you need to be fast status + durable enough to survive a round, and with my durability respect it can be hard to manage either part of that.
2: Cidolfas Orlandu (FFT) - Fast, OHKO or die, FFT equips. Spoilable but dominates where he isn't spoiled.
3: TimeLord (SaGa) - Yeah. Kill fast, be tanky, or die painfully.
4: Indalecio (SO2) - Looks about right. Champ material.
5: Ellen Kirishima (Pers) - Spoiler.
6: Sephiroth (FF7) - Disrespect the status/durability combo more than most, I think. Still capable of spoiling and some slugfesting.
7. Luca Blight
8: Zio (PS4)
9: Endora (OB)
10: Kurando Inugami (SH2)
11: X (MMXCM)
12: Altima (FFT) - Oddly, think I respect her durability more than most here. Benefits from that formchange.
13: Genevieve (VP1) - Durability disrespect + speed issue = eh. Still a decent Godlike.
14: Dark Force (PSs) - The option variety combined with my general form leniency nowadays makes him better than...
15: Zeromus (FF4) - this dude, who I have zero respect for.


Rest later.
Heavy:

1: Fogel (OB) - Better Scias without the healing/status. Interesting trade, think Fogel comes off better which is kinda interesting but gut says his pressure is just insane unless you either tank physicals yourself or can shut him down somehow. Scias is easier to shut down, I think, so...
2: Artea (Lufia 2) - OHKO, outspeed and 2HKO for a heal-lock that Artea somehow can't IP bust you for, status someone with L2 options, or die. Not an easy fighter to beat.
3: Pamela Ibis (MK) - Spoils physicals! Has a better game outside of Shadow by a fair ways, and is annoying to kill in general. Maya was a really shitty second fight for her to draw last season.
4: Scias (BoF4) - Options! Speed! Damage! But not too durable. Ah well.
5: Garan (SH2) - W8 + Queen Zeal - HP-1 - phys durability. Still a potent combo - spoiling any flavor of PC mage/spellcaster/physical guys who rely on their skillset? Shiny.
6: Zero (MMXCM) - Solid dueler, wishes he had more variety, I think?
7: Fujin (FF8) - Decently solid PC killer, I guess.
8: Albel Nox (SO3) - ...better status game than Edgar, if not by much. Wow.
9: Edgar Roni Figaro (FF6) - Status! Status! Status! ...needs more speed!
10: Worker 8 (FFT) - Tank! Tank! Tank! ...wishes he had more than that! Magic immunity allows him a few amusing wins, at least.
11: Shadow (FF6) - ...too frail, is my kneejerk? Potential otherwise, but the durability doesn't impress enough. Iunno, arguable.
12: Reno (FF7) - Low Heavy. (Equate Pyramid to Paralysis/Petrify, personally) As such, a status whore whose durability doesn't impress me, nor does his speed, and his one lethal trick is blockable to me. Soooooo


Middle:

1: Flay Gunnar (MK) - Damage! Damage! Non-ID status immunity! Solid durability! Works.
2: Slade (SF2) - Damage! ID! Magic damage! Ninja mouse is a low Heavy to me as well
3: Nanako (Pers4) - Amusingly, Flay would probably lose to her. Ah well, they're more solid, while the bearer of Magatsu-Izanagi has... physical and lightning spoiling, Heat Riser, and... not too much else, the durability's not solid otherwise. Ah well!
4: Maya (LoL2) - LoL2 equips, Mystic Artes, healing, Gospel. Yeah, Maya fucks with Middle something fierce but lacks the staying power for Heavy.
5: Tifa Lockheart (FF7) - Limit sells it, though I'm not sure when I see her getting it. Regardless, trip the limit and be in for a world of complete and utter pain.
6: Rauny Vinzalf (OB) - Meanwhile Rauny's just constantly solid damage, and could probably be the 3 slot. I need to think on her more, but this at a minimum fits.
---DROP---
7: Seifer Almasy (FF8) - Yeah, think I take him scaled to the time he leaves. He likes this, now that I do it... but I'm still not entirely sold on him overall.
8: Gerik (FE8) - See Mark, but no elemental weakness.
9: Venusaur (PKMN) - Dislikes the weaknesses, but the status allows him to win some fights - enough to where Light doesn't work.
10: Mark Inaba (Pers1) - He's not even a -bad- Middle... just kinda one-dimensional, IIRC outside of... those painful, painful elemental weaknesses.
11: Alma Beoulve (FFT) - Yeah.


Light:

1: Gogo (FF6) - Get to Heavy.
2: Gordon (Disgaea) - Get to Middle.
3: Sten (BoF2) - Get a championship.
4: Aguro (Lufia 1) - Gutcheck from here.
5: Garcia (FE8)
6: Joker (S3)
7: Hervey (S4)
8: Reis Dular (FFT)
9: Lucied (WAs) - No real respect.
10: Gares (OB) - No real respect.
11: Tai Ho (Suikos) - No real respect.
12: Tempest (Lunar:SSSC) - No respect period.
13: Malak Galthana (FFT)

I pretty much agree with all of Tai's votes.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2010, 04:41:10 PM by Nephrite »

Cmdr_King

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Re: List topic Round 1 Week 2- Moppy, RAGE, and floating pillows in Heavy!
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2010, 03:31:30 AM »
On Materia slots- Keep in mind, it's not just the endgame that matters; you have to have those HP plusses on the entire game to get them mastered for best effect.  While you get them at a time when you've got 6-7 slots to play with, given the volume of Magic and Summons in the game, nevermind that you may want multiple copies of All, Elemental, the various Command materia, or maybe even some of the other purple types.  It's highly competitive, I'm honestly skeptical that devoting two slots to HP is really a good tradeoff.
Supposing only devoting one slot to them, I'm also not sure about mastering multiple HP Plusses without either powerlevelling or whoring Double Growth gear (which limits your slots even more, although it DOES eliminate the competition from blue).  Although certainly mastering one and getting a few levels in a second should be no problem, which goes back to me finding +50-60% total bonus reasonable.

Nitpick- Sephy's physical and Shadow Flare are right around the same damage (6k, give or take a couple hundred)
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