DLC 5 tournament

[Luther Lansfeld]

My personal suggestion is four games.

One 2-D 'traditional' type game
One 3-D newer type game
One Random Nintendo crossover game
One 2-D or 3-D pretty/stylistic type game.

For these I was thinking MvC2, Tekken 6, Melee/Brawl, and Xer suggested Melty Blood for the fourth category.

[OblivionKnight]

I propose a 5th, final match -

A boxing match.  Between the top 2 players. 

[Dark Holy Elf]

I'd vote for anything but Brawl in terms of Smash, and since Brawl+ makes Brawl fans rage, consider this a vote for Melee. EDIT: or original I suppose, but that seems less likely to take and I'm less enthused about it anyway.

[Meeplelard]

Few things I should note regarding Smash, if we do that, and we do a unique take:

For Items:
Remove anything that would make the match take longer, except MAYBE basic Food items cause those aren't too bad in terms of lengthening things.  So no Stars, Hearts, Maxim Tomatos...probably other things that can come to mind.  Basically, I'm find with shit like Ba-bombs cause while yes, they are cheap, they do make matches go quicker (and they lead to hilarious moments <.<)

For Teams:
Put Friendly Fire ON.  Again, it speeds matches up, and adds that little extra amusement value.

For Stages:
Any stage that is obnoxious to be killed on should be an obvious NO.  Yes, New Pork City, I'M LOOKING AT YOU.  I personally want to see more than the usual bunch, cause it makes things more interesting, but there are some stages that make fights take too long.  Hyrule Temple should probably be banned too for that matter.  There are others, I'm sure, but mostly thinking of a "Lets try to keep this tournament not taking too long" so first priority would be "Rule out anything that makes matches longer."

Whether we do Brawl or Melee, I would like to see a more unique take on Smash in a tourney, cause we've done both games, and general Smash Tourneys get boring to watch after the first few fights.  Adding something like Teams or Items (even if Items are on Low) tends to make things a little more interesting.

ALTERNATIVE TO TEAMS:
We just do 4 way Free For Alls (3 Stock, cause anything more takes too long), do things that way.

Again, 1v1 Smash is really not very interesting to watch and can take a while, be it Melee or Brawl (I was just at a Melee tournament a few weeks ago; despite not being THAT big in playership, it still took a while to get through.)  Teams or FFA style is at least something to make things more interesting.  I can also see going "FFA in earlier rounds" and then shift to 1v1 later on.

Just tossing ideas out there, any thoughts?

[Dark Holy Elf]

If we're doing 4-way free-for-all, it should totally be time instead of stock. Rewarding killing > rewarding camping/surviving.

I'd be totally cool with FFAs since I suspect that's how most of us really play the game. Leaves things open to politics I guess but whatever. I'd be fine with teams or duels too, mind. Mildly opposed to items since luck in a tournament = bleh, but not rabidly opposed if they're set to Low and a few of the more egregious items (Starman and Bob-Omb for instance) are banned.

[Meeplelard]

Oh, time would be fine too; I just jumped to Stock cause at my gamers club, we always play 3 stock matches, but yeah, I'd be totally cool going with Time as well.  Heck, to some degree, may be better since it lets everyone fight the match the entire way through, instead of one unlucky person getting ganged up on and dying in the first 45 seconds of a match that lasted 5 minutes total, which isn't very fun for the loser.

Also, time of course has the advantage of knowing exactly how long the fight is going to last.

SPEAKING OF WHICH:
Regardless what games are chosen, I recommend putting Time on for all of them.  While being off is generally ideal for Casual play, if only cause it lets new players get that extra 10 seconds to get use to controls and play around, tourney play, Time should be on, not only cause it leads to people actually having to act (the winner can camp, sure, but if the Loser tries, he loses, so he basically HAS to go on the offensive; no time can lead to these barring stand offs), but also puts a cap on how long the tourney can last.  Most matches won't hit the time limit, but it can't hurt to have that extra time restriction just to help things move a little faster.

[Talaysen]

Definitely voting against friendly fire on teams.  Hate it with a passion.  All it does is add annoyance.

Agree with FFA being timed.  Stock FFA is blah.

As for games, I think Ciato's list looks fine as well.

[AndrewRogue]

Games I have immediately available.

Super Street Fighter 4 (PS3)
BlazBlue (PS3)
Guilty Gear XX: Accent Core+ (PS2)
Marvel vs Capcom 2 (PS2)
Darkstalkers 3 (PS)
Street Fighter Alpha 3 (PS)
Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Wii)

And I think that is it.

[DjinnAndTonic]

My votes, which I don't think have changed:

2D: BlazBlue
3D: Tekken 6
Smash: Brawl 4P FFA, Timed, Low items
Oldschool: MvC2

[Meeplelard]

Might as well chime in on the 4 options Ciato noted as tenative:

MvC2: While not what I'd call "Traditional" works well enough for a 2D fighter.  Its different than the usual 2D Fighters, but easy enough to pick up, and the usual flaws don't really apply to most of the DL proper.  Also, worth noting that MvC2 is actually a pretty good spectator game, since matches are insane and hilarious shit happens.

Smash (be it Brawl or Melee): Fine, but again, I stand by we should at least do SOMETHING different than the usual "Tourny rules only!" play.  Items (to whatever degree people find reasonable), teams, Free For All, what have you, just NOT 1v1, NO ITEMS, FINAL DESTINATION ONLY! like we always do (ok, we did fight on...the Star Fox stage last year, I think?  But that's still kind of boring, limiting to one stage.)  We can work out the specifics later.

Tekken: Works as well as anything for a 3D Fighting game.  We'd done Soul Calibur twice (SC3 at DLC2, SC4 at DLC4), and Virtua Fighter once as well,  Tekken probably is best on grounds of "We haven't done this before, and its a mainstream title"

Melty Blood: Um...er...I dunno, I know practically nothing about it other than there's a few DL members that seem to have a cult following within it.  Though I should note one thing:

People who support Melty Blood have NO RIGHT to talk about Unfair Advantages regarding How Played a game is (something used against MvC2 at least, compared to TvC), since Melty has a pretty big gap in playership, as we have those who play it relatively regularly, and those who have never even touched the game and know practically zilch about it.  

Not saying "DON'T PUT IN MELTY!"; I'm undecided where I stand on that cause having never seen Melty AT ALL (so as far as I know, the game is a myth!), I can't actually make a serious opinion on the game here.
I'm saying just saying "if you support Melty, then don't try to pull a skill gap argument."

[Nitori]

Man I am so totally cool with that lineup

[metroid composite]

On Smash FFA...

Free For All just strikes me as a bad format for tournaments in general.  Free for all opens up strategies like "gang up on the best player", which can really tilt results.  Smash also has the issue that you can, to a degree, control who gets points.  Let's say you're at 160%, and the worst player (the one with -6) just hit you with a light jab--arguably your best move is to run off the cliff since you were going to die soon anyway, and you don't want to give points to your closest competition.  Similarly, if there's a player who struggles a bit more to stay alive, you'll want to smack that player frequently to pick up easy points.

(And that's assuming Time-FFA.  Things are even worse with Stock-FFA, where the optimal move is to run away and not fight at all--see taunting Pichu dominating DLC1).

I mean, none of this really matters when we're just playing smash for the sake of playing smash, in which case FFA just means 4 people can play at once, so fewer people have to sit out.  But in tournaments you're playing smash for the sake of winning, so the "ways you can play the scoring system and ignore the game" stuff starts to matter.

[Grefter]

If you want I can be an impartial judge on if someone is being a dick.  If you are being a dick then the rules say you can fuck right off and you have to sleep with OK.  It is OK if OK is a dick because that is OK.

Ciato and I as impartial judge and runner of Figher tourney?!??!??? THIS CAN ONLY WORK PERFECTLY.

Edit - But yeah seriously, FFA play can lead to dicky politics, so lets not be dicks. Kay? Kay.

[Luther Lansfeld]

secret game: guess electric six songs

[Grefter]

Which album was Dance Epidemic on and what is the first line from it?

[VySaika]

Which album was Dance Epidemic on and what is the first line from it?

Senor Smoke. Dance Epidemic Tonight.

I need to get more of thier stuff then just Senor Smoke and Fire on that note.

[OblivionKnight]

This is a bit random of a thought -

Anyone have a N64 with Perfect Dark and 4 controllers?  I'd love to play it with a group!

[Meeplelard]

Wouldn't Golden Eye just be better on grounds that people have, you know, played it?  Also probably easier to find someone who has the game.

[metroid composite]

Wouldn't Golden Eye just be better on grounds that people have, you know, played it?

That was how I felt about things back in 2001, certainly.  Perfect Dark was an all-around upgrade for singleplayer.  (Including the fact that it actually had bots so that you could play the multiplayer 1-P).  Multiplayer, though, while an upgrade on paper (choose your own weapon distribution!) nobody knew the maps, so Goldeneye was better.

On the other hand, that was 2001, this is 2010.  Do people still remember Goldeneye?  'Cause familiarity seemed to be the main factor making it a better multiplayer choice.  (Honestly, right now I'd guess the shooters the DL remembers best today would be like...L4D and TF2; though we already play those online).

Also probably easier to find someone who has the game.

Eh, not really hard either way.

[Nitori]

PD is awesometastic and I never really did Goldeneye so I have no complaints there

[Hunter Sopko]

My votes, which I don't think have changed:

2D: BlazBlue
3D: Tekken 6
Smash: Brawl 4P FFA, Timed, Low items
Oldschool: MvC2

I'm for this lineup.