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Author Topic: Soul Nomad: Ranking Topic  (Read 3298 times)

Dhyerwolf

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Soul Nomad: Ranking Topic
« on: June 14, 2010, 09:12:02 AM »
I really thought that we had one of these, but search function didn't find anything so it gets made! A few amount of the stuff in this topic has already been hashed out somewhere else (Which is why I might have been thinking that there was already one of these out there). There are a few tiers of rankability. Luckily for SN, it's biggest issues have already been smooted over by other games (FE with the counters, OB with the heavy squad basis and also potential inclusion of generics in averages and the potential split)

My opinions
The 100% absolute ranks (Plot important long, use non-Revya main path PCs)
Danette
Vitali
Juno
Grunzford
Dio
Tricia

Ranks that I think are fairly strong overall and might as well be 100% to me.
Layna (5 battles so her duration isn't too short. Her stats are fantastic and absolutely stand out)
Thuris (Plot important boss, Character stands out, Decently challenging battle, Has to the durability to be a decent DL Godlike)

Ranks I support (Main path PCs that don't have as much plot, but are notable use wise and gain a fair amount more plot in the Demon Path+Spoiler!)
Galahad (He's theoretically a tier below the others in this grouping though)
Agrippa (I suppose that Agrippa has notably more use than the other two, although Pinot supports him quite well)
Pinot
Levin (Thinking on it, Levin vs Raksha is basically Sir Leopold vs Rhapthorne, which basically leaves a quirky PC who is otherwise around the same tier as the first group and a halfway decent boss).
Raksha (I guess? I have no real issues with the Levin split, but unlike Thuris his durability isn't so hot. Still arguably okay durability. Just not as impressive and doesn't stand out as much in a fight).
Gestahl- Unlike the next group, his main path form is good enough to say people are generally going to get some kind of bearing on him (And a lot of that time, the bearing will be that he mauls short range fighters badly with Counters and then just mauls things in general with his normal attacks)

Ranks I support but don't feel a strong need to push (Demon Path PCs with Main Path boss battles)
Cuthbert
Dio
Kanan
Shauna
Demon Path is technically aftergame, but it's really more alternate game then after so I wouldn't find the PC forms illegal. Generally you don't get to see too much of their boss forms (Although Shauna 1 can be a pain and Dio is ranged pain, so unlike Cuthbert and Kanan their is a fairly strong chance you'll get some basis. Kanan...you may at least notice the killer debuffs). Demon path generally seems like it's played enough to that they can pick these up, although if the split on these guys was heavy, I might switch over to abstain.

Complete No!
Revya (Already noted in many a topic. Bluelike formsplit)
Endorph
Thorndyke
Rockum and Sockum (Closer than Revya and Thorndyke though!)
That other Person who hangs out with Odie, Rockum and Sockum (And I played SN today are forget his name)
...into the nightfall.

Cmdr_King

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Re: Soul Nomad: Ranking Topic
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2010, 11:16:48 AM »
I'm assuming that first Dio is supposed to be Odie.

I believe Odie's other minion is named Van Gogh.  I could be misspelling that.

Otherwise your tiering seems about right.  Endorph doesn't seem so bad to me, BUT I also happened to get his ending (and, thus, got him back as a PC) in my playthrough.  Hey, beats his other form.  I also have a bit of a distaste for summoning bosses and tend to kneejerk Thuris in "don't strongly support but don't oppose" territory, but that's just me.
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DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Soul Nomad: Ranking Topic
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2010, 12:34:10 PM »
Yeah, I can see most of what Dhyer's saying. I would have probably put Galahad up one tier, and Layna is in the 100% category to me.

No love for the Final Boss, Dhyer? Magic Immunity and OHKO damage is pretty cool.

My list:

100% Rank:
Danette
Vitali
Juno
Grunzford
Odie
Tricia
Layna
Levin

Strongly support:
Galahad
Thuris
Raksha
Endorph
Drazil

Would support if SN gets a following:
Shauna
Cuthbert
Dio
Kanan
Gestahl

Don't care:
Pinot
Agrippa
Gamma & Joules
Rockum & Sockum
Vangogh

Best character ever (I can dream, can't I?) :
No-Summoning Revya

OblivionKnight

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Re: Soul Nomad: Ranking Topic
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2010, 05:22:14 PM »
I think we did this topic already, but it was combined with other things?  Eh...whatever, more Soul Nomad is good!

100% Important Ranks (stealing organization go!!!!)
Revya
Danette
Vitali
Juno
Grunzford
Odie
Galahad
Tricia
Layna
Shauna
Dio
Cuthbert
Kanan
Thuris
Raksha
Feinne
Pinot
Agrippa

Strongly Support, Should be Ranked but not as high on the list as the above
Endorph
Rockum
Sockum
Van Gogh
Thorndyke

Not sure on where to stand here, may be good ranks, but...something odd in the most minutely of minute microcosms of the mind halts the full support that is desired here...
Levin
Gestahl

Don't Care Much, can do without
Van Cross
Ben Cross
Hometown Bard
Hometown Baredknuckle
Hometown Wirlwin
Nash
Larouche
Juno's supporting Nereid 1
Juno's supporting Nereid 2

Don't really support, for all that they'd be cool
Asagi
Lord Median
Kotaro
Lujei

!Troppus Ton Od
Drazil
Gamma
Joules

Will perhaps add reasons later, though I don't think my opinion is typically valued too much in this discussion due to supporting Revya >_>
« Last Edit: June 14, 2010, 05:34:38 PM by OblivionKnight »
[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
[19:27] <+Terra_Condor> Han Kicks First?
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Vader intercepts.
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Touchdown and Alderaan explodes in the victory

Monkeyfinger

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Re: Soul Nomad: Ranking Topic
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2010, 07:06:28 PM »
Yes
Danette
Juno
Grunzford
Odie
Tricia
Layna
Agrippa
Galahad

All important main path PCs who aren't sad sack healers.

Probably yes
Vitali
Pinot
Thuris
Dio

These PCs bring a lot less to the DL due to screwed healer syndrome but are otherwise good ranks. If we want to limit the size of a PC cast ranking, these should be the first to go. SN bosses are a little headachey to HP scale and their actual speed needs formal testing since SN doesn't appear to be linear CTB, but Thuris and Dio are great ranks if those issues are sussed out, even if Dio's kind of a weak dueler.

???
Median
Raksha
Feinne

Some people are saying that the demon path is worth considering. If that keeps up, I really don't want Median and Raksha in. Median gets some formchoice issues that way, and Raksha.... Raksha is quite something else on that path, let's just say. Conversely Feinne should be ignored based on the normal path, but she's a perfectly valid rank if we allow demon path stuff. We'll see how the wind blows.

Probably no
Rockum and Sockum
Vangogh
Endorph

Just not important enough.

No
Revya
Cuthbert
Kanan
Shauna
Thorndyke

SN isn't a big enough deal to rank people whose battle forms are exclusive to a path some people might skip or not consider even if played, and I don't need to explain Revya.

NO
Levin

I'm sick and tired of seeing people like him ranked. Rank one person once.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2010, 07:08:52 PM by Monkeyfinger »

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Soul Nomad: Ranking Topic
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2010, 10:35:35 PM »
Yeah, I can see most of what Dhyer's saying. I would have probably put Galahad up one tier, and Layna is in the 100% category to me.

No love for the Final Boss, Dhyer? Magic Immunity and OHKO damage is pretty cool.

The final boss that is 3 people! You call him Drazil, but it's clearly Drazil+Gamma+Joules! Also, definitely not magic immune, just immune to...well, I suppose what I'd view as full MT magic damage. But really that first turn isn't OHKO, it's ten x overkill! It's legal and not many duellers can take that.

In terms of Thuris and summoning, Thuris is a solid Godlike without summoning. Summoning is given up a turn to summon something that I'm assume most Godlike MTers can take out in a hit. I suppose if you respect a summoned squad's attack fully focusing on one dueller it does make them a lot better (Adds another 80% phys damage to Thuris' output. However...Thuris may has about 2 PC HP durability to me. Endlessly throwing out more support isn't necessarily the most helpful thing against those high-tier sluggers, so I don't think it's hurts his rankability much).

I've already done speed testing for SN Monkey. The bosses with 32 speed are all a tad below 150% effectively off the top of my head. ACT is almost linear, but does pull in a bit.

Endorph is generally very temporary in a way that makes me very disinclined to consider him ranking-wise. One battle isn't really cutting it for a PC even with his story backing.

My gut reaction on Demon Path Rakshka is not all that legal since you get an ending even if you lose the battle. Granted...I suppose that in terms of solid numbers, he doesn't OHKO average is my strong gut, so big difference compared to normal Rakshka is durability! Also, you can perma-halve all his stats before he even moves (But have to know what you are doing).

I thought Feinne was a plot fight no matter what. Maybe I'm misremembering her in the Demon Path, but she should still have a level far higher than yours. Regardless, unlike Shauna/Cuthbert/Dio/Kanan whose boss fights have issues and then become a lot better for being awesome PCs on the Demon Path who you can test out a lot...Feinne has a less legal boss form and then far worse Demon Path exposure. She'd be in the my 100% no list myself.

I'm going to post rankings in a bit because it's fun and Contenders died an quick death this time!
...into the nightfall.

Fudozukushi

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Re: Soul Nomad: Ranking Topic
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2010, 10:43:40 PM »
Yeah, I can see most of what Dhyer's saying. I would have probably put Galahad up one tier, and Layna is in the 100% category to me.

No love for the Final Boss, Dhyer? Magic Immunity and OHKO damage is pretty cool.

The final boss that is 3 people! You call him Drazil, but it's clearly Drazil+Gamma+Joules! Also, definitely not magic immune, just immune to...well, I suppose what I'd view as full MT magic damage. But really that first turn isn't OHKO, it's ten x overkill! It's legal and not many duellers can take that.

In terms of Thuris and summoning, Thuris is a solid Godlike without summoning. Summoning is given up a turn to summon something that I'm assume most Godlike MTers can take out in a hit. I suppose if you respect a summoned squad's attack fully focusing on one dueller it does make them a lot better (Adds another 80% phys damage to Thuris' output. However...Thuris may has about 2 PC HP durability to me. Endlessly throwing out more support isn't necessarily the most helpful thing against those high-tier sluggers, so I don't think it's hurts his rankability much).

I've already done speed testing for SN Monkey. The bosses with 32 speed are all a tad below 150% effectively off the top of my head. ACT is almost linear, but does pull in a bit.

Endorph is generally very temporary in a way that makes me very disinclined to consider him ranking-wise. One battle isn't really cutting it for a PC even with his story backing.

My gut reaction on Demon Path Rakshka is not all that legal since you get an ending even if you lose the battle. Granted...I suppose that in terms of solid numbers, he doesn't OHKO average is my strong gut, so big difference compared to normal Rakshka is durability! Also, you can perma-halve all his stats before he even moves (But have to know what you are doing).

I thought Feinne was a plot fight no matter what. Maybe I'm misremembering her in the Demon Path, but she should still have a level far higher than yours. Regardless, unlike Shauna/Cuthbert/Dio/Kanan whose boss fights have issues and then become a lot better for being awesome PCs on the Demon Path who you can test out a lot...Feinne has a less legal boss form and then far worse Demon Path exposure. She'd be in the my 100% no list myself.

I'm going to post rankings in a bit because it's fun and Contenders died an quick death this time!

Thuris has the Decor that gives him a stat boost if he has more allies on his side.  That gives him a good cause to summon since it may boost his ACT to the game's cap.

Demon Path Feinne 1 is very underleveled for the fight.  DP Feinne 2 is higher leveled but not that big a threat.  DP Raksha on the other hand is ridiculously powerful.  And Normal Path is quirky because he starts leveling up while he slaughters your mindless support.

Monkeyfinger

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Re: Soul Nomad: Ranking Topic
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2010, 11:09:43 PM »
Quote
My gut reaction on Demon Path Rakshka is not all that legal since you get an ending even if you lose the battle. Granted...I suppose that in terms of solid numbers, he doesn't OHKO average is my strong gut, so big difference compared to normal Rakshka is durability! Also, you can perma-halve all his stats before he even moves (But have to know what you are doing).

It's an ending where you quite clearly lose so I can't buy it making any of those opponents illegal.

Fist crush is pretty serious overkill even against a party that can survive his other two attacks. Minimum range of 3 means he can't use it against melee, but that speed + range means he'll get one off against most duelers that can close to melee range.

With 20% regen and that speed, the durability boost matters a lot.

Quote
I thought Feinne was a plot fight no matter what. Maybe I'm misremembering her in the Demon Path, but she should still have a level far higher than yours. Regardless, unlike Shauna/Cuthbert/Dio/Kanan whose boss fights have issues and then become a lot better for being awesome PCs on the Demon Path who you can test out a lot...Feinne has a less legal boss form and then far worse Demon Path exposure. She'd be in the my 100% no list myself.

Nope, both her demon path forms are normal bosses.

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Soul Nomad: Ranking Topic
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2010, 11:55:40 PM »
The parties I was generally using in Demon Path weren't having as much of an issue with surviving Fist Crush myself. Part of that may be that Gideon's start existing and a lot of the other base classes are suddenly obsolete. If you still tried to use all the same support, I could see that being more problematic, but subbing in basically all the fighters with Gideons is generally the way I went. I don't think I'm remembering after I perma-halved his stats, but I suppose that's not impossible. I guess I'd also note that going all out on decors is something I might hold him to anyways. Blessed March all around tends to make that awesome speed look notably less awesome.

Durability boost...well, normal Raksha in game arguably has some durability problems. Base HP is nice, having no support is not, having your party gain an extra 5 squads for free that can rip off an extra 5% of his HP and draw some fire really not nice for him. But yes, I can see how at base, even a 3x Rakshka would be nasty. 60% Regen off 150% Speed.

Normal path Rakshka isn't exactly gaining levels all that quickly (Nor are single levels all that potent).

I'm not sure Thuris' decor boosts his ACT as I thought it's 32 no matter what. If it does boost it, it only works once anyways and it's 20%, so nothing overly horrid. I don't sure where the concept of the ACT cap is even coming from. Try a Blessed Marched Enlivened Danette and see your ACT skyrocket to well beyond what anything else will have (At least 50, can't remember Blessed March's exact boost off the top of my head). Still not letting him take the highest Godlike tier since the Lady's/FAs/Zophars/PD/Yuna's are still not having much problem taking him out since some of them have similar speed but notably more damage or durability (or in FAs case, both!)

Yeah, even with Feinne having legal Demon Path forms, PCs are generally better than bosses, especially PCs that at least had some legal form in the normal path, so that wouldn't change Feinne for me.
...into the nightfall.

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Soul Nomad: Ranking Topic
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2010, 12:26:24 AM »
Rankings (Only counter with range advantage, Generics in Averages)
----->How the rankings would look if people got 3 uses of tactics/generics got to use all their theortical tactics. I don't find this legal, just did it for fun.

Revya (No Squad Summoning)- 4.35? ST people are going to eat Demon Force and counter turn 1 for bit better than 110% damage, but stopped by Dark res! Then 2HKO damage until he gets access to evil Dark damage. Could swing low Godlike, but I'll never see him in practice and not sure he has the package otherwise.

Agrippa- 3.4. Generally 2HKOs mages. Short range fighters...he's maybe 5/6HKOing, but countering!
Actually coming out ahead on average since his defensive typing isn't as anti-short range as say Tricia's. Decent Middle I'm thinking.
----><3.75- 3 Tactics uses=Evade+Counter+Heal strategy. Makes it quite hard for many Middles to take him down, I think>

Danette- 3.85. Speed+60%+Ranged 50% Counters to eat the Short Ranged+Several Evil Buffs. Not great against magic, although still 2HKO a lot. She can try Axle Heart+counter if she can take a hit, but some Middle mages can grab her. Low Heavy Works for her.

Galahad- 3.1. Low Middle works. Pdur is near 2 PC HP, damage is average. The bad side is that mages will absolutely ream him. Still, Light is fighter heavy, so Galahad can play in Low Middle.
----><3.1. Does next to nothing for him>

Grunzford- 3.85. Loooow Heavy. 90% Damage+Absurb HP. He can actually deal with some Middle mages with the Counter Hit 1+Heal+Live Another Turn and Manage to 2HKO. Poor mage durability+His Damage being so absurd that despite bad typing against mages it still being averagish does it+Having absurd HP so that 60% Healing is actually near full healing
----><3.95. More healing helps his game a bit, although the change isn't great>
---->Theoretical 2: Intimidate instead of the bad Anti-movement skill: Hmm, probably doesn't add much, although it an enemy is slower, it really sinks them.

Juno- 3.9. Another Low Heavy. Similar damage/range breakdown to Danette. Extreme improvement against magic if generally worse all around otherwise. Nereid's have fantastic typing.
---->4.05. More healing is always nice again>
---->Theoretical 2: Delirium instead of Only Hope! This would be fun on her. Take anti-magic game to another level and gain an extra boon against fighters.

Layna- 4.6. 3x average durability with all factors and 85% damage off 111% Speed. Oh yeah, Enliven and eventual smashing. Biggest flaw is the fatal status, which holds her down even if she landed in Heavy, but as a slugfester, she tends to destroy.

Levin- 3.75. Doesn't have the as solid range option, but still has the 2HKO, some awesome buffs and nice durability...minus magic. Hates magic,and Danette and Grunzford deal with it better. That's what makes me unsure he can play in Heavy vs Middle overall.
---->3.9. More evade+healing+counter game. Sure.

Odie- 3.95. Damage! And it only gets more psychotic as time goes on. Greeeeat DL typing...minus the busted by typical healers...although given the absurdity of his damage, he may bust through them. Thunder res hurts...but against meleers with it, Poison+Counters (if non-nulling)+25% MHP damage help. Actually making good use of Pain Rune! Best of the Heavies is my gut.
--->3.95. Gains next to nothing

Pinot- 2.8. Suprise of the topic. Pinot's whole game is basically attempting to evade until her special
kicks in. Buffing Speed and Evade at the same time really helps. Take a hit, evade a hit, use two buffs to counter short range twice and she's hitting healing/buffing gold.
---->2.95. More evade and speed buffing are good.

Tricia- 2.95. Much worse typing than Agrippa (bad against a more meleers), slower, and loses great buffs selection. Could be too much for Light still (while I'm sure Vitali and Pinot aren't), so she could use some testing
---->2.9. Gains next to nothing

Vitali- 2.8. Full healing is awesome, but unlike Pinot, he's not evading and he's slower! And nevertheless, full healing is awesome. Feels like an even wash, and truth be told, it's not impossible that Pinot will be better in practice
--->3.3. 3 shots of full healing=Countering many things into submission. He and Agrippa are the two main path PCs who really would love the extra charges.

Cuthbert- 3.45. Vitali who thanks to an evil special, now can actually use the healing! Doesn't need to worry about Pdur or Pevade and even a nice extra chunk of HP to boot! Frail healers will fail thanks to near OHKO special!
---->3.45. Nothing! Already got the big boon to be gained.

Dio- 4.05. Odie with better damage. Pretty straightforward here!

Gestahl- 4.5. Yeah, surprisingly Layna is better. Well, in game, Gestahl is about crowd massacre on slightly worse stats. Still great HP and Pdur and Mdur is still solid. And Demon Force field tactic+Counter is something Layna doesn't have! Borderline, haaaaaates Dark res

Kanan- 3.4. Badass. Solid 2HKO+great healer killer+Enfeeble is fantastic. Fuuuuuun although
Schemestress typing isn't too great. That HP is though!
--->3.6. Two uses of Encumber=even bosses lose 50% of their stats. 2HKO or be fairly neutured.

Shauna- 3.3. Speed+Durability+passable damage+a special even! Don't expect any buffs and hates other women.

Thorndyke- 3.2. Galahad+! Works as an actual Middle I think...although...could be that in effect Thorndyke beats everyone Galahad does and loses to basically the same too because of how skewed their stats are!

Nash/Le'Rouche- 3.4. It's Odie! With notably less HP. Still, smash damage, anti-melee strategy in case they meet some Fire res (More blatantly effective than Odie/Dio's strategy, but unlike them less recourse against awesome elemental resistance). Mid middle works. Too bad about the lack of plot!

Thuris- 4.85. 80%ish Phys and Magical damage, solid durability (Maybe 2 PC HP after good defense are in play). Not a high Godlike, but an excellent performing Mid Godlike. Could champ with the right field. Dlwise can also summon support to boost this stats 20% with Dog Pile!

Raksha- 4.55. Doesn't have Thuris' great support, but instead has the painful MT to get around being bumrushed. Not quite as respectable a strategy though so his HP feels worse in effect. Also, not magic. Calling his PC HP area doesn't necessarily feel to wrong. The speed and okay durability could make him a low Godlike even despite his lack of magic, but nowhere near as impressive as Thuris.

Gideon- 3.4. Durability is solid, lacks any tricks though other than eventual healer slaughtering.
---->3.65. Burning Soul is a great theoretical addition.

Archer- 2.2. 3HKOs meleers effectively, but with that HP and defense and typing, she'll be dead by then! Still deals with mages.
---->2.2. Extra skills are worthless. Doesn't have the durability for High Ground and Hunter's Eye...boosts the one stat she already has enough of!

Bandit- 2.8. Awesome high Light. Surprisingly solid for what it was supposed to be. HP isn't good, but evasion is a nice mitigator. Lupin Snatch is a great finisher and Knife Throw lets him deal with Melee pretty well.
---->2.95. Evasion and Assassin Eye are nice, but neither feel potent enough for Bandit to hit Middle.

Bard- 1.5. Non-translating buffers. Soul Psalm at least lets it beats other horrid punies!

Bareknuckle- 2.8. Fast, passable durability, damage isn't horrid. Hates mages.
---->2.95. Burning Soul...not enough base SPD to for Middle off of that.

Cherub- 1. Even mages can deal with this one.

Cleric- 1.1. May beat Nara. It's special is horrid.

Deathblossom- 2.35. The durable ranged fighter! Flip side is not as good against mages. Still decent, but really wishes it has the evade to take advantage of Pollinate.

Drache- 2.8. Gets the Fire mages and can counter meleers into submission (Especially with the HP and the defense!). Speed and accuracy hold it back, although if it faces someone with horrid evasion, it's evil Attack may get to shine.
---->2.95. Hot Rage is a great attack buffer, but it still has that bad, bad HIT. Feels like not enough to get out of Light.

Dracosage- 2. Typing is balanced by defense, leaving it relying on bad HP and speed. Horrid accuracy wrecks it's damage. Horrible translation, although that 50% HP surely held it way back in game anyways.

Ghobb- 2.55. #1 in defense even with main PCs added! Only one besides Bandit and Speed that can claim that for any stat. Of course, accuracy sucks, and typing is not good. Still can eat some fighters, and another one that gains a lot against those with bad evasion. Actually, Sandsnake gives it some counters against melee, so it might add on a few extra wins there.
---->2.75. Fortress really lets it take on a new class of physicallers.

Gryphos- 2.9. Ranged counters, and lots of attack breaking. It's even fast and can kind of hold it's own against mages!
---->3.15. Extra skills boost it to Middle. Lots of Speed boosting, and also Attack or Act boosting at the same time?  Great buff choice.

Gryphos Rider- 2.9. Better Pdur and damage than Gryphos, but worse against mages and loses the Attack Breaking. About even.
---->3.15. Extra skills are about as good as Gryphos'.

Gypsy- 1.6. Damage sees it past the other punies, and being good against males is nice.

Hydrone- 2.95. Mage with average HP! Gains nice boons against melee physicallers! Has the worse damage of the mages, but that damage doubles as 10% healing and the damage is still a low 3HKO. Speed probably means that it still doesn't have the mettle to get out of Light, although it feels damn close. Too bad there's no uber version of this! Would probably have 130% HP and 15% healing paired with 2HKO damage.
---->3.15. Ensnare is great as a Speed buster (Aka: Damage increaser!). Feels like it gives it the punch for Low Middle.

Knight- 2.6. Similar base stats to say...Bareknuckle with 20% less speed.
---->2.8. Like Ghobb, Fortress lets it take on another class of physical fighter.

Nereid- 3.1. Yes, one breaks Middle! Good accuracy means the damage is solid. Has a ranged variation to get meleers, Aqua Laser is solid, Nereid's have good typing, and Delirium is a fun skill for busting Magic damage. Too bad it's Speed isn't high enough to take full advantage of Delirium.
--->3.35. Attack and RES and ACT buffing. Plays into her game well.

Phynx- 2.85. Bareknuckle that's slightly, slightly better.
---->3.1. Nice extra buff selection. Gallop is great.

Phynx Knight- 3.1. Another Middle! Solid Pdur, ranged counter, damage isn't bad, Speed is great and Intimidate is actually helpful for once! Someone can finally take advantage of the speed busting.
---->3.3. Gallop mark 2!

Pyremage- 2.35. Better accuracy than Dracosage means that she might occasionally succesfully kill a non-fail Light. Occasionally. Counter+Normal move helps although...accuracy.
---->2.65. Best improvement? Meleers who don't OHKO (which generally need 2HKO to do that), are eating a firestorm with no chance of attacking. Binding Call is awesome for a mage.

Redflank- 2.85. 3HKO despite horrid Accuracy+Pdur. Hates mages, but otherwise he's a solid enough Light.
---->2.95. Eh, skills are nice, but he's already so skewed that attack breaking and attacking buffing doesn't feel like they add enough to change divisions.

Saboteur- 2.45. Worse typing that Archers, but above average speed matters that much overall. Actually, maybe the typing is actually better. Worse against mages, but not as weak against fighters.
---->2.65. Enliven!

Schemestress- 2.25. It's a Dracosage! With awesome field tactics! But Kanan combined the field tactics into better uses! Oh wait, no ranged counter! Still, typing means she smashes meleers up and Enervate means that she's a lot harder to kill. Still, that base Pdur and speed sink her!

Seraph- 2.5. Bad HP, but evasion helps. Damage works for what it is, Full Auto is powerful. But typing is kind of meh. Still, best class at the mage destruction thanks to better ACT
--->2.65. Buffs off it's stats aren't great, but ACT and SPD simaltenous boosting probably works enough for some boost.

Soldier- 2.4. Below average fighter

Swordsman- 2.65. Snuck by HIT.
---->2.8. Mortal Wound is a great damage buffer.

Whirwin- 3.1. Another Middle! Fast, evasive, typing isn't too bad overall, ranged counters too!
---->3.2. Moar buffing. Mortal Wound is a great damage buffer!
...into the nightfall.

Fudozukushi

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Re: Soul Nomad: Ranking Topic
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2010, 12:51:58 AM »
I'm not sure Thuris' decor boosts his ACT as I thought it's 32 no matter what. If it does boost it, it only works once anyways and it's 20%, so nothing overly horrid. I don't sure where the concept of the ACT cap is even coming from. Try a Blessed Marched Enlivened Danette and see your ACT skyrocket to well beyond what anything else will have (At least 50, can't remember Blessed March's exact boost off the top of my head). Still not letting him take the highest Godlike tier since the Lady's/FAs/Zophars/PD/Yuna's are still not having much problem taking him out since some of them have similar speed but notably more damage or durability (or in FAs case, both!)

50 ACT is game cap, yes.

Monkeyfinger

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Re: Soul Nomad: Ranking Topic
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2010, 01:41:39 AM »
Thuris has 42 ACT base. Raksha has 32.

By your notes in the topic that's 186 speed for Thuris, 142 for Raksha

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Soul Nomad: Ranking Topic
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2010, 02:07:30 AM »
Guess I underestimated Thuris! Thought he was 32 and not 42 (Must have been equating his speed with Raksha and the three headed monster). I still don't think that his summons are anywhere near powerful enough to make him too powerful for ranking, nor do I have any problems with his being a good dueller because he kicked ass in game.

That said, Raksha should be a bit faster compared to average assuming an average of 20 (Which is a tad high). 32 vs 20 is 160% speed at base, and 20% of that 60% is removed for a speed of 148%.

« Last Edit: June 15, 2010, 08:10:08 AM by Dhyerwolf »
...into the nightfall.

OblivionKnight

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Re: Soul Nomad: Ranking Topic
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2010, 01:11:36 PM »
http://www.rpgdl.com/forums/index.php/topic,3044.msg53785.html#msg53785

Thuris is 42 ACT, like all the other bosses in the game are 32 ACT (well, the non-PC ones).  Any bosses anyone wants to see?  It has all the main World Eater forms, PCs, etc.  Missing Odie/Rockum/Sockum/Van Gogh, as well as the Demon Path World Eaters, but there aren't too many changes outside of support features and decor changes (Thuris in the Demon Path has Reanimation, Feinne and Raksha get a fight with support, etc.). 

I might grab some of the oddball ones later - I've had this the way it currently is for a while >_>

Will add rankings later.
[11:53] <+Meeple_Gorath> me reading, that's a good one

[19:26] * +Terra_Condor looks up. Star Wars Football, what?
[19:27] <+Terra_Condor> Han Kicks First?
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Vader intercepts.
[19:27] <%Grefter-game> Touchdown and Alderaan explodes in the victory

Luther Lansfeld

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Re: Soul Nomad: Ranking Topic
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2010, 11:38:07 PM »
Yes
Danette
Vitali
Juno
Grunzford
Dio
Tricia

No
Everyone else

Hell no
Summon Revya

:)
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Monkeyfinger

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Re: Soul Nomad: Ranking Topic
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2010, 08:08:27 AM »
There's Layna in the demon path, now that I think on it

Dhyerwolf

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Re: Soul Nomad: Ranking Topic
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2010, 09:59:48 AM »
There's everyone in the Demon Path! Unless you mean that Layna might want her Demon Path form (Which...is possible if you don't factor in generics to the average? She's already such a monster to me that she definitely wants to stick to her PC form for me).
...into the nightfall.

Cmdr_King

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Re: Soul Nomad: Ranking Topic
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2010, 10:14:44 AM »
While Layna's the only thing on that map that threatens you besides Raksha, she still has some exploitable flaws; mainly, she gets hit HARD by the Tyrant's Stare(?) decor.  She falls about as fast as the other PCs there despite the 40-50 level advantage if you get her with that, whereas Raksha it just takes him down to reasonable levels.  I'm not sure what the difference is mechanically that it works that way, but so it goes.
So anyway, she feels better in PC form.  The fact that she almost certainly has better HP that way alone...
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