A new IAQ project?! Is there no end to the madness?

[074]

Perhaps I'm a bit insane.  Perhaps I'm just dragged by whims.  Or maybe I just have way too much free time on my hands and I want to get some sort of creative project done.  Whatever the case, I've opted to start on my own IAQ project.

Whatever the case, I have a more concrete aim here than I'm certain anyone may've had at the time the second IAQ was proposed--I fully intend this game to be creatable by its completion, preferably within a reasonable timeframe (I'd actually not mind using RPGMVX--amazingly flexible without getting into stuff like the custom systems--to actually implement the completed thing, but the intended means are beside the point, beside the idea that it is feasible to do so).

As such, anyone interested may post here.  If there's enough interest, maybe I'll start more threads on this.


There is a number of things I would like to keep in mind up front

1: This is going to be a jRPG.  This is going to be a sprite-based JRPG.  If there are plot branches, they are few.  If you are coming here to bash jRPGs and hawk the newest Bioware game, don't bother wasting your time, because I don't see it as worth the effort.

2: Battle System.  This...is easier to modify than one would think possible, but the best that can be feasibly be done is grabbing one of the CBSes from the RMVX forums.  I haven't read up on it yet, but they're not easy to mess with to begin with.  The default system is a standard round-based deal--albeit graphically minimalist (not sure about the ease of modification, but XP does at least have graphical PC representation, if that would be preferable)  

What does this mean?

No SRPG battles.  No pseudo-SRPG battles akin to WA4/WA5.  Some boss gimmicks may not be doable.  As such we may have to limit the number of bosses just so things don't get stale.  It's still possible to have variance, just don't expect a WA4-esque gimmick boss.

3: CAST SIZE  I cannot stress this enough, this was a gigantic problem with the last two group IAQs, and it showed.  Maximum PC cast of 10, 12 if I go with one of my ideas.  I am not giving any leeway on this restriction, just to let you people know in advance.

4: I am open to ideas, so feel free to give your suggestions, keeping in mind the above.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I'm pretty sure there are custom SRPG battle systems for RPG Maker though I haven't looked into them myself. Certainly all manner of non-SRPG is easy enough to pull off. I agree that maybe opting for something a little simpler and especially a smaller cast size does make this more feasible.

Interested as always, although part of me wonders if this energy might not be better spent pushing forward with the huge amount of material (writing, gameplay notes, art...) that was produced for the last IAQ.

Regardless, I've been pretty focused on my own RPG project for the last month or so and I'm not really willing to drop that to work on something else, but I'm happy to help with pointers on battle system balance, script advice, etc. if needed.

[074]

Interested as always, although part of me wonders if this energy might not be better spent pushing forward with the huge amount of material (writing, gameplay notes, art...) that was produced for the last IAQ.

Good question.  There are a few reasons why I would not desire to push forward with the last IAQ.

-There appeared to be generally no interest from any of the people who started it to begin with.  I remember being the last one to have contributed, and that was to boss designs and PC revision--not exactly the sort of thing that is that conducive to progress in general.  As you have noted, you have moved on, Andy appears no longer interested in JRPGs, Excal seems to have vanished, and Djinn is on his own project and thus may not be willing.

-The level of complexity is a big deal.  Late as I am to admit it, the battle system is arguably overly complex, especially for a non-SRPG.  That's before programming concerns come in--and while you did mention SRPG battle systems are possible (they are), the problem is that they are clunky and require a LARGE amount of expertise with the programming language to hack in.  Adding in mind the issue of cast size, how the cast has been apparently tied into the plot, the issue of trying to cull PCs, convert skillsets, alter the plotlines due to that, fix weapons, and alter them to fit within the much smaller set of possible stats(I can do standard equation replacement, but I don't have knowledge in Ruby to do anything too fancy)...it's so much work that starting on something new would work better anyway.

-I admit that I have personally become unhappy with certain directions the old project has taken.  This is a personal factor, but it is a motivating factor.

Regardless, I've been pretty focused on my own RPG project for the last month or so and I'm not really willing to drop that to work on something else, but I'm happy to help with pointers on battle system balance, script advice, etc. if needed.

Duly noted, and I understand completely.

[Bardiche]

There are scripts available for a Grandia-style battlesystem, a Press Turn system and a CTB system as I recall from a thread somewhere sometime, so would those be options to consider for boss systems? You can do some gimmicky stuff with CTB still. :V

[Dark Holy Elf]

I think you overestimate how difficult it would be to get various people back into working on this, but maybe not. Certainly it feels like it'd be easier than asking them to start on a whole new project. I don't presume to speak for them, though - you'll have to talk to Andy, Djinn, and Excal individually. (Excal hasn't disappeared, just his internet has sucked for much of the past month. He's still very much around, though.)

That's before programming concerns come in--and while you did mention SRPG battle systems are possible (they are), the problem is that they are clunky and require a LARGE amount of expertise with the programming language to hack in.  Adding in mind the issue of cast size, how the cast has been apparently tied into the plot, the issue of trying to cull PCs, convert skillsets, alter the plotlines due to that, fix weapons, and alter them to fit within the much smaller set of possible stats(I can do standard equation replacement, but I don't have knowledge in Ruby to do anything too fancy)...it's so much work that starting on something new would work better anyway.

All of this is certainly fair, though I'll note that creating new stats is quite easily (check out Yanfly's New Battle Stats as an example if you're using VX... honestly, this strikes me as virtually necessary for any project with RPG Maker as the stat set provided is kinda lulzy (no MDef? Freaking NES games had MDef...)). I don't think a large cast is as big a deal when they've already been pretty well-defined. Of course, the hex battle system may present its own difficulties, as will certain complex skills designed to work with it. I have no doubt it's doable and may even script one at some point in the future myself, but it is certainly something that will take serious effort. I'm just skeptical that it's more effort than starting from scratch with new character concepts, new art, new battle system, and so on.

[AndrewRogue]

Man, what's with this outstanding belief that I don't like/have no interest jRPGs anymore? >_> I just finished and hyped the hell out of WA4 not too long ago! I just think the western offerings are stronger and more in-line with my taste lately.

Anyhow, sure, what the hell. I've been lazy about creative projects lately anyhow. I'm more interested in something new (I already cannibalized the hell out of the old project to create something new, so I'm mostly done with those concepts), but if people want to use the old stuff, I'd be happy to as well. As per usual, its not like I don't have setting/concept ideas floating around my brain if people need a starting place and its not like I don't mind taking a backseat if someone else wants to be creative director.

So, all in all, vaguely interested.

[074]

Hm.  I stand semi-corrected, having found the -extensive- documentation on Yanfly's Battle Engine Melody.  Seems like there's a lot one can do there for a CTB system, at the very least.

[Bardiche]

As I said.

Given you intend to actually FINISH the game in RMVX if need be, do you have an idea of how much content you want to offer? A linear story, multiple choice paths? Does the story span around 3 hours worth of gameplay, or are you aiming for more ambitious?

[074]

Hm.  That is a good question.  I am internally debating between a linear story with one main, and a "Side White/Side Black" sort of story from two different points of view (likely merging near the end), which could arguably double the plot length.  Not sure how long the story would span, I admit, and while I would entertain something more ambitious, I admit that it'd result in the one thing known as "Mapping Nightmares" amongst other things.

Given, it could afford to be longer if it's just one, but with no 30-day time limit, I could work on the final product at a pace less susceptible to Town/Mapping burnout.

But that's admittedly knowledge of my main weaknesses in that system.

[Bardiche]

Well, you could recycle the idea from Mana Khemia and Ar Tonelico where the entire story plays in one location. You'd severely limit the need for towns, and you can revise the old maps a few times when new events happen. Meteor crashing down? Just change up one of the old maps! Stronger mobs due to progressing the story? Old maps!

Only downside is that it's boring to travel the same routes ad infinitum and you'd need a (clever) plot device to explain the lack of a variety of locations, but depending on the type of story you want to do it's quite possible.

Re: black and white side, it might be a good idea to focus on one side, then make the other side after we've finished one part? That way you don't burn out on both, maybe just on one route and the other becomes Duke Nukem Forever.

[074]

I am familiar with how AT does it--played AT2, they have a lot of backtracking. which while it is nice for mapping convenience (just have a bunch of contingencies for switches on conversation), tends to grate on players.  A lot.  Even with plot explanation, it is one of those things that a lot of players don't care for.

It works for what it does, and I do see it as an option, but only if the plot would warrant it.


Yeah, it might be a good idea to focus on the specifics of one path first.  While I would intend for them to cross at a few points throughout the game (if I went that way), I could see just working with general stuff on the other until it's done.

though this does mean I have two possible mains in mind.

[DjinnAndTonic]

I'd be willing to help with what I can, but I am -not- doing 12 original spritesheets for characters by myself. I also hate mapping, so I won't be doing that. Basically, I can offer to draw or composite character designs and do -some- sprites.

Personally, I would like to re-use some of the character designs that I've already come up with if possible. At the very least Noemi, Isolde, Shao, Kasia, Faulheit, and Katarine are designs that I'm fond of. Personality and names and role can all be changed, but I really liked how those particular designs turned out. I also like Mirek, but I don't know if Andy wants me to recycle him since he's actually being used in Andy's project.

I'm perfectly fine with a simple-end battle system, but honestly it needs some kind of 'hook' or 'focus' before I put any kind of real effort into this.

I've always thought that the DL could make something amazing if all of us worked on a single RPG project together, but there needs to be an idea that will actually inspire a few people before we can make this project gather any momentum. That was the big problem with the last project - there was no 'big idea' that would set it apart from the thousands of JRPGs that already exist.

[Magic Fanatic]

I could probably chime in here and there, but I'm not quite sure what overall I can do to be helpful.

[074]

Djinn: Hey, I understand completely.  I've worked with RM sprites before, so I might be able to do something with those.  12 original spritesheets is pretty tough anyway, given that each spritesheet at base has 12 sprites in turn minimum, not considering unique poses and the like.  I'm not suddenly expecting you to suddenly do all the spriting or whatnot, and it'll probably be a while before this hits production phase (I need, mainly, a paypal or credit card with about $60 US on it, for example. ^^;)

And I think I'm okayish at mapping.  Not great, but enough to not completely suck.  Might end up having to do revisions (hatehatehatehatehate) of maps, but the problem for me is less large-scale design and more small-scale detailing.  IE: Appeasing the RMVX Forum Map Snobs.

RE: Specific Character Recycling--we'll see.  Some might have to be altered to some degree, of course, but we'll see.  I do find it amusing that the entire Imperial Trio made it to that level, though.

And...yeah.  I've got ideas floating around for certain battle elements, but nothing more than ideas for now.  Could go in totally different directions pending, but that's how it is for now.


Magic: Dude, chin up.  Just contributing ideas would be helpful.  And you have to remember, ideas get changed everywhere.  All the time.  And of course, getting to testing phase, everyone can be a tester! 

[Excal]

While I'll hang around in the chat room and occasionally pitch ideas or comment, most of my energies along these lines these days are going to Desmonds and Dragons.