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Author Topic: Proving grounds: Yep, bringing this back again. (Middle)  (Read 1014 times)

superaielman

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Proving grounds: Yep, bringing this back again. (Middle)
« on: August 09, 2012, 03:07:14 AM »
Ursula-  Fast status blitzer with plenty of durability.
Joshua- High speed and some status. Weird fighter, could be a Heavy.
Grand Master- Control.


Ursula (TAY) vs Auron (FFX)
Ursula vs Luc (Suikos)
Ursula vs  Marivel (WA2)
Ursula vs Ursula (BoF4)
Ursula vs Aelia (VP1)
Ursula vs Rasputin (SH2)
Ursula vs Roxis (MK)
Ursula vs Borgan (Lunar:EBC)
Ursula vs Sophia (SO3)
Ursula vs Micaiah (FE10)
Ursula vs Tifa (FF7)
Ursula vs  Yangus (DQ8)

Joshua (Trails) vs Auron (FFX)
Joshua vs Luc (Suikos)
Joshua vs  Marivel (WA2)
Joshua vs Joshua (BoF4)
Joshua vs Aelia (VP1)
Joshua vs Rasputin (SH2)
Joshua vs Roxis (MK)
Joshua vs Borgan (Lunar:EBC)
Joshua vs Sophia (SO3)
Joshua vs Micaiah (FE10)
Joshua vs Tifa (FF7)
Joshua vs  Yangus (DQ8)

Grand Master (FF1) vs Auron (FFX)
Grand Master vs Luc (Suikos)
Grand Master vs  Marivel (WA2)
Grand Master vs Ursula (BoF4)
Grand Master vs Aelia (VP1)
Grand Master vs Rasputin (SH2)
Grand Master vs Roxis (MK)
Grand Master vs Borgan (Lunar:EBC)
Grand Master vs Sophia (SO3)
Grand Master vs Micaiah (FE10)
Grand Master vs Tifa (FF7)
Grand Master vs  Yangus (DQ8)
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 04:19:46 AM by superaielman »
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superaielman

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Re: Proving grounds: Yep, bringing this back again. (Middle)
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2012, 04:34:45 AM »
Ursula (TAY)  vs Auron (FFX)- The turnsplit on this fight burns. I don't think sleepward is enough to prevent Auron from getting to take a nap. Ursula just has to avoid a limit, which I think she can do. 
Ursula vs Luc (Suikos)- Shining Wind should outpace Ursula's damage.
Ursula vs  Marivel (WA2)- Status.
Ursula vs Ursula (BoF4)- TAY is the better slugger.
Ursula vs Aelia (VP1)- Better slugger. Aelia has DL issues.
Ursula vs Rasputin (SH2)- Abstain.
Ursula vs Roxis (MK)
Ursula vs Borgan (Lunar:EBC)- Borgan should be able to handle this.
Ursula vs Sophia (SO3)
Ursula vs Micaiah (FE10)- Doubled sleep. Ouch.
Ursula vs Tifa (FF7)- L1 can be tanked, rest of her limits are avoiable.
Ursula vs  Yangus (DQ8)

Grand Master (FF1) vs Auron (FFX)- Power break.
Grand Master vs Luc (Suikos)- Avoids a OHKO, drains away.
Grand Master vs  Marivel (WA2)- outslugs.
Grand Master vs Ursula (BoF4)- Block ID.
Grand Master vs Aelia (VP1)- GM 2HKOs.
Grand Master vs Rasputin (SH2)
Grand Master vs Roxis (MK)- Should outlast.
Grand Master vs Borgan (Lunar:EBC)- Should just avoid the 2HKO/2HKO back.
Grand Master vs Sophia (SO3)- Kneejerk Sophia as pretty bad without Blood Scylla.
Grand Master vs Micaiah (FE10)- I don't allow Nos. May not matter here.
Grand Master vs Tifa (FF7)- Limit.
Grand Master vs  Yangus (DQ8)- Better slugger.

Ursula: 9-2
Grand Master: 8-4
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 01:26:18 PM by superaielman »
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
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<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

SnowFire

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Re: Proving grounds: Yep, bringing this back again. (Middle)
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2012, 05:58:31 AM »
Joshua (Trails) vs Auron (FFX)
Well they both immune ID, so no Shooting Star / Shadow Spear hype here.  That said, fine, Auron goes first and Magic Breaks, but his damage & pressure start pretty bad.  I give Joshua Clock Up EX (let him equip all Time Orbments) for +50% speed, so Joshua starts constantly doubling slow Auron.  This will probably let Joshua blaze past Auron's "limit" as far as either good Masamune damage / if Auron somehow gets to an Overdrive - dump all his CP into a Flicker chain to close out, or Black Fang.  Meanwhile, chip with White Gehenna (or Soul Blur if you disallow that) and hope for Faint to trigger.  But I'm not sure it really matters even if it doesn't, Auron just gets his kill off too slowly here.
Joshua vs Luc (Suikos) - Coin flip, it's whoever can complete their 2HKO first.  Kneejerk respecting Joshua speed slightly more.  (Joshua immunes Sleep & ID.)
Joshua vs  Marivel (WA2) - Anti-Sept -> lol
Joshua vs Aelia (VP1) - Uh, depends entirely on if Dark -50% accessory is seen as legal, and if it even works against FC Shadow Spear.  Sure let's go Joshua for now.
Joshua vs Rasputin (SH2) - Feeling generous enough toward SH2 boss HP today.  Evil Crest for magic busting sounds like it'd help even if he's vulnerable to Delay / Flicker chains.
Joshua vs Borgan (Lunar:EBC) - More bosses with something approaching durability.
Joshua vs Sophia (SO3) - Um.  Chat claims Sophia can equip 2 accessories, so she blocks both ID & Silence.  That still leaves Clock Up -> Go for Faint -> damage & a Flicker chain, but meh, while trying to get Faint off, Sophia can set up Protection / Reflect / Angel Feather while healing and make Joshua's damage really, really sad.  Sad enough that even getting Faint to connect might not matter.  EDIT: See CT, those buffs suck, I forgot.
Joshua vs Micaiah (FE10) - Magic Triangle advantage!!!1!  ... except Joshua would have to be psychotic to go after Micaiah RES with Shadow Spear.  And also Anti-Sept.  Even if it misses due to excellent Resistance, Joshua should get at least 2 shots of it, probably 3 depending on if Micaiah 2HKOs or 3HKOs.
Joshua vs Tifa (FF7) - Most Trails characters are good at chipping past limits, but Joshua can't do this one since I give Tifa a half-full limit bar.
Joshua vs Yangus (DQ8) - I think?
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 11:07:25 PM by SnowFire »

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Proving grounds: Yep, bringing this back again. (Middle)
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2012, 06:10:33 AM »
Micaiah's res lowers magical status by either 85% or 90% depending on which average you use, so I really don't think that's an option. Then again this is another match like Tita vs. Mist, Joshua can just one-round her. Nosferatu heals off the first attack of his double, but not the second, then overdrive right away.

Almost all of the Trails PC cast win this way which is why I'm somewhat iffy with this interp of the cast even though I do subscribe to it (see: your arguments in chat recently).

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SnowFire

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Re: Proving grounds: Yep, bringing this back again. (Middle)
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2012, 06:27:17 AM »
I assumed Joshua couldn't manage it, but never mind, you're right.  (2nd physical of the double + Black Fang = .60 PCHP, Micaiah is ~5-6 points below average DEF, that turns out to be physical damage * 1.23, so Joshua does .73 PCHP defense-adjusted which is barely enough to kill.)

Clear Tranquil

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Re: Proving grounds: Yep, bringing this back again. (Middle)
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2012, 08:47:12 PM »
I know the duration/effect/stacking increasing of Power Dance is increased some via cancel combo bonuses (same as healing/mp recovery is boosted for the recovery dances)  but I'm not sure if the SO3 menu casted support/buff spells stack~

Don't know about Protection/Angel Feather/Reflection respect in general either - for Sophia casting them on herself it's working off her base stats and see lack of respect for SO3 DEF ~
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 09:07:51 PM by Clear Tranquil »
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SnowFire

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Re: Proving grounds: Yep, bringing this back again. (Middle)
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2012, 11:05:58 PM »
That was me having a fuzzy memory.  I just looked at the stat topic and saw +50% defense and assumed it meant damage halving or something.  Good point, if Sophia's defense game isn't hypable, then she needs to kill before Joshua gets a Faint off.  I let him have White Gehenna so having okay damage attached to the Faint attempts, along with the threat of Black Fang, slows Sophia down even more by forcing her to paranoia heal.  Let's see...  Faint will have kicked in by Joshua's 4th or 5th attack.  He'll open with Clock up EX too, so doubles incoming.  Yeah, without good defense hype, those White Gehennas (or even Soul Blurs) force Sophia to heal way too often.

Pyro

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Re: Proving grounds: Yep, bringing this back again. (Middle)
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2012, 01:32:44 AM »
Joshua (Trails) vs Auron (FFX): Auron isn't getting many turns, here.
Joshua vs Luc (Suikos): I think he gets to kill first.
Joshua vs  Marivel (WA2): Immunes whatever her reliable status was.
Joshua vs Ursula (BoF4): She... might get him with status but honestly I think he gets her with damage first.
Joshua vs Aelia (VP1): Blitzes first.
Joshua vs Rasputin (SH2)
Joshua vs Roxis (MK): Kills him before he gets going.
Joshua vs Borgan (Lunar:EBC)
Joshua vs Sophia (SO3): Not Sophia.
Joshua vs Micaiah (FE10): Attack + Black Fang kills?
Joshua vs Tifa (FF7): I guess?
Joshua vs  Yangus (DQ8)

Grand Master (FF1) vs Auron (FFX): Plays into Auron's strengths.
Grand Master vs Luc (Suikos): Don't think he's OHKO'd.
Grand Master vs  Marivel (WA2): 2HKOs. Isn't status'd turn 1?
Grand Master vs Ursula (BoF4): Takes out in two turns?
Grand Master vs Aelia (VP1)
Grand Master vs Rasputin (SH2)
Grand Master vs Roxis (MK)
Grand Master vs Borgan (Lunar:EBC)
Grand Master vs Sophia (SO3)
Grand Master vs Micaiah (FE10): Luck hype? Works for me.
Grand Master vs Tifa (FF7): Take a hit and obliterate.
Grand Master vs  Yangus (DQ8): Slugger.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 01:56:40 AM by Pyro »

Random Consonant

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Re: Proving grounds: Yep, bringing this back again. (Middle)
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2012, 01:48:28 AM »
Grand Master (FF1) vs Auron (FFX) - Land Power Break, get OD.
Grand Master vs Luc (Suikos) - One of these days I'll play S3 maybe.
Grand Master vs Marivel (WA2)
Grand Master vs Ursula (BoF4)
Grand Master vs Aelia (VP1)
Grand Master vs Borgan (Lunar:EBC)
Grand Master vs Micaiah (FE10) - LUCK thwarts an OHKO on average to me, amusingly enough.
Grand Master vs Tifa (FF7)

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Proving grounds: Yep, bringing this back again. (Middle)
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2012, 08:18:02 AM »
Ursula (TAY) vs Auron (FFX): Sleep Claw's not legal. Speed doesn't do Ursula a damn of good here since after Power Break she 9HKOs or something so Auron can literally win on counters.
Ursula vs Luc (Suikos): Yeah sure.
Ursula vs Marivel (WA2): Sleep. I don't see any legal way for TAY to block this.
Ursula vs Ursula (BoF4): I think TAY may... just manage the 3-2 here, and again has a 2HKO.
Ursula vs Aelia (VP1): Ursula 4HKOs, but Aelia evade means that's a 5HKO. And Ursula doesn't quite have a 5-3. So Aelia gets three turns. We know what that means.
Ursula vs Rasputin (SH2): Kills Rasputin before his second turn. How like in-game.
Ursula vs Roxis (MK): Roxis will use Chrona Drive then Trick Edge, as usual, but he needs the fourth hit of Chrona Drive to kill the above average durability Ursula. This... barely doesn't happen before Ursula's third turn.
Ursula vs Borgan (Lunar:EBC): Borgan is weird. The stat topic makes him look extremely good but I remember him being terrible. Average damage is only 195, seriously? Average HP is only 250, seriously? He had sleep? Gah. Well, if he's as good as the stat topic says or even especially close he wins. Weird. Boot Borgan.
Ursula vs Sophia (SO3): Sophia must block Death or her healing games get owned by TANKETSU aw yeah. Anyway her draining is now only 54% to average durability, Ursula does 32% with a 1.72 turnsplit, slowly overwhelming Sophia. That said it's not quite fast enough I don't think, so she needs to find more damage somewhere. Of course, Sophia runs out of MP eventually while Ursula can resort to CHAKRA so I think she has this?
Ursula vs Micaiah (FE10): Micaiah equips Nosferatu, but doesn't want to attack since it will open up a way for Ursula to kill her on a doubleturn. Ursula also doesn't want to attack, since it lets Micaiah counter, then attack again, and be ready for the finishing blow on the next counter (or just attack immediately for a free hit if she -doesn't- provoke a counter). Normally what I do in this situation is to force both PCs to take an action simultaneously, but it obviously depends who goes second in this case as to who will win. In which case... Micaiah's evade and Corona chances tilt it. Ursula's only remaining option is to go for Tanketsu, but unless she draws ID it just means a counter and attack immediately, then Ursula can't do anything but get owned next turn. If Tanketsu didn't take so long to charge she'd be able to get in another, but no dice.
Ursula vs Tifa (FF7): Tifa needs a L2 here, yeah. But... how does Ursula dodge that? Impossible with a 3HKO, she gets one at 35% health by the convention I use (which is actually less generous than the main competing convention I'm aware of). Tanketsu is an option I suppose, but offhand I dunno if she can rig the damage properly. Also there's too high a chance Tanketsu just does normal damage and ruins this anyway.
Ursula vs  Yangus (DQ8): Yangus isn't too competitive I don't think.

Joshua (Trails) vs Auron (FFX): Auron effectively 4HKOs, most likely. Joshua gets something like a 5-2 when Auron uses breaks and just shy of constantly doubles otherwise? So Auron opens with Magic Break (Joshua won't use physicals due to Counter, see Ursula), then Power Break as his second move to reduce the threat of the S-Craft. Overall, thus, Joshua gets seven attacks before Auron's fourth, obviously not enough (he does like 9% with his best magic). But wait! He can go for stun. This drops his damage to like 8%. He gets nine attacks before Auron gets a fifth and that's... still not enough, wow. I guess if you see him getting lucky and getting off two stuns in nine actions he wins, but I don't. That assumes Stun actually lasts long enough to remove an Auron action, to boot.
Joshua vs Luc (Suikos): Isn't OHKOed, yeah. Nor is he 3-2ed.
Joshua vs Marivel (WA2): Anti-Sept.
Joshua vs Ursula (BoF4): Joshua blocks confuse and death, outslugs? Yeah, probably. He's faster and 3HKOs at worst.
Joshua vs Aelia (VP1): Joshua absolutely needs a 4-3 to take this. Stat topic says he gets it, but only barely, and I don't think Trails speed is as good as the thread says. Eh, I'll await what others have to say, here.
Joshua vs Rasputin (SH2): lol Rasputin, Joshua is way faster and kills in 3 at worst.
Joshua vs Roxis (MK): Roxis has to block silence, and the stat hit from that lets Joshua kill him in two rounds.
Joshua vs Borgan (Lunar:EBC): Part two of "weird, Borgan is good, wtf".
Joshua vs Sophia (SO3): Sophia can block both silence and death, though it does make her damage kinda bad. So again, Joshua's only hope is to land Faint on her. This... actually, never mind, he doesn't even need that, I think. He'll just win on a double.
Joshua vs Micaiah (FE10): As per previous discussion.
Joshua vs Tifa (FF7): He can dodge anything but a L1, the L1 is of course right out. So can he survive two Tifa attacks and a L1 limit? Hm, looks like.
Joshua vs  Yangus (DQ8): Yeah.

Grand Master (FF1) vs Auron (FFX): Grand Master barely 2HKOs Auron, so make that barely 4HKO. He triggers 3 counters and Auron gets off 3 of his own attacks. Um, yeah.
Grand Master vs Luc (Suikos): Back before I realised Luc could access shops, Grand Master would totally take this. Oh well!
Grand Master vs Marivel (WA2): Hmm. She can put him to sleep but not really capitalise on this? Well, no, it probably lasts long enough for her to get to 100 FP then Gellacrazy him, which should kill. Actually, sleep may not be turn 1, Grand Master does have MDef. Sure, let's go with that.
Grand Master vs Ursula (BoF4): Again, just enough status tanking, I think.
Grand Master vs Aelia (VP1): 2HKOs. I guess evade might drop this to 3, making it a "who goes first" thing. But evade might also not drop it.
Grand Master vs Rasputin (SH2): Punch twice, collect victory.
Grand Master vs Roxis (MK): So Grand Master 2HKOs. And he's just magically tanky enough to not die to three Chrona Drive hits and a Trick Edge. A lot like the Ursula fight actually.
Grand Master vs Borgan (Lunar:EBC): Competence.
Grand Master vs Sophia (SO3): Snooze drain win.
Grand Master vs Micaiah (FE10): Oh look a fighter who DOESN'T double Micaiah, yeah that ain't winnin'. I guess he could OHKO but sure, luck hype really softens Grand Master.
Grand Master vs Tifa (FF7): Grand Master can't control his damage at ALL (short of equipping sticks but lol) so yeah, Tifa gets a L2.
Grand Master vs  Yangus (DQ8)

Joshua 8-3
Grand Master 6-6
Ursula 5-7

No real shocks here; Joshua's reasonably close to Heavy. The other two obviously belong in this division.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2012, 09:18:04 PM by Dark Holy Elf »

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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Proving grounds: Yep, bringing this back again. (Middle)
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2012, 08:36:52 PM »
Grand Master (FF1) vs Auron (FFX) - Counters. Um.
Grand Master vs Luc (Suikos) - fweem.
Grand Master vs  Marivel (WA2) - Marivel curses being below average speed.
Grand Master vs Ursula (BoF4) - Once again, Knight factor.
Grand Master vs Aelia (VP1) - Eh.
Grand Master vs Rasputin (SH2) - :rasputin:
Grand Master vs Roxis (MK) - Roxis doesn't like being 2HKOed and slower. Sometimes, he doesn't like being 2HKOed and -faster-.
Grand Master vs Borgan (Lunar:EBC) - Borgan was less weirdly good DL-wise in EBO!
Grand Master vs Sophia (SO3) - Leave Blood Scylla on auto, take a nap.
Grand Master vs Tifa (FF7) - You're seriously letting Tifa get a L2. Grand idea.
Grand Master vs  Yangus (DQ8) - Yangus when being 2HKOed and being slower and not having ID.
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superaielman

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Re: Proving grounds: Yep, bringing this back again. (Middle)
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2012, 08:45:25 PM »
Updating all three PGs tomorrow. Get your votes and edits in now!
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...