Redoing an old season: S2 W2. Backflips vs Flamebirds

[superaielman]

Claude>Erim
Berle>Kuja
Maxim>Menardi
Myria>Arc

Solo>Adel
Liete>Todd
Luc>Dario
Alena 8, Alhazad 3

Ramsus>Mystina
Tifa>Spar
Milda 6, Antenora 5
Samus 5, Shana 3

Aeris>Palmer
Rena 6, Brey 5
Jaro>Gobi
Jean>Jogurt

Godlike:

Albert Simon (SH1) vs Worker 8 (FFT)
Royce (Lunar:SSSC) vs Songi (LoL1)
Asgard (WA3) vs Necron (FF9)
Ghaleon (Lunars) vs Rolf (PS2)

Heavy:

Precis (SO2) vs Valeria (Suikos)
Cecilia (WA1) vs Dart (LoD)
Ultros (FF6) vs Cecil (FF4)
Billy (XG) vs Augustine (S3)

Middle:

Ernest (SO2) vs Lemina (Lunar:EBC)
Vormav (FFT) vs Lunn (Lunar:EBC)
Mia (Lunar:SSSC) vs Cait Sith (FF7)
Ashton (SO2) vs Nash (Lunar:SSSC)

Light:

Guillaume (S3) vs Leon (SO2)
Hrist (VP1) vs Amy (PS2)
Rafa (FFT) vs Freed Y (S2)
Selphie (FF8) vs Mogu (BoF1)

[superaielman]

Godlike:

Albert Simon (SH1) vs Worker 8 (FFT)- I don't think !!! will do anything to worker. Simon's physical is competent enough against 0 evade and Grace gives him an extra hit. Counters could tip the fight for Worker, but he needs to hit two counters to win to me offhand.  Someone convince me otherwise, I want to see Worker kick the shit out of Songi next week.
Royce (Lunar:SSSC) vs Songi (LoL1)- What the fuck, Songi is *faster?* That should make up for Royce's better offense and durability.
Asgard (WA3) vs Necron (FF9)- Bet he 2HKOs here, Necron's HP is pretty bad.
Ghaleon (Lunars) vs Rolf (PS2)- Fate Storm. Ghaleon's a jerk to PC's.

Heavy:

Precis (SO2) vs Valeria (Suikos)- Tanks through barrier spam. Falcon might trigger a Algol counter, but I never did get precise rates on that so eh. Not giving it the benefit of the doubt.
Cecilia (WA1) vs Dart (LoD)- Get out of Heavy, Dart.
Ultros (FF6) vs Cecil (FF4)- Outslugs. He resists/immunes Ultros's tricks.
Billy (XG) vs Augustine (S3)- Goddess Eyes being glitched costs Billy the fight. He's constantly on the defensive, and he has issues breaking through Augustine's evasion.

Middle:

Ernest (SO2)vs Lemina (Lunar:EBC)-  Wow. Lemina isn't 2HKOed by a fighter, that almost never happens. It gives her enough time to set up ice shell.
Vormav (FFT) vs Lunn (Lunar:EBC)- Vormav handles pure physical well enough.
Mia (Lunar:SSSC) vs Cait Sith (FF7)- Status.
Ashton (SO2) vs Nash (Lunar:SSSC)- Status.

Light:

Guillaume (S3) vs Leon (SO2)- Ew. On so many levels.
Hrist (VP1) vs Amy (PS2)
Rafa (FFT) vs Freed Y (S2)- Resisting thunder hurts Freed's already awful damage.
Selphie (FF8) vs Mogu (BoF1)- This fails.

[Dhyerwolf]

Godlike:

Albert Simon (SH1) vs Worker 8 (FFT)- This is...close. If Albert is not getting full physical string, he probably goes for status abnormality to avoid counters. Albert needs at most 6. Worker needs 4 attacks (one of which will be a Work move) and should be able to get that. But...if Albert gets a shot of full physical chain, he knocks W8 off in 5 and he does at least 5-4 Worker so there we go.
Royce (Lunar:SSSC) vs Songi (LoL1)- I think that Songi is too physical damage for the consistent high damage, which does not work as well as LSSC boss defense.
Asgard (WA3) vs Necron (FF9)- Necron notes lost in a board switch, maybe have them on another computer. Dont' think Asgard 2HKOs though (I mean...solid 2HKO damage is apparentally tied to horrible accuracy move, and the other move is tied to Asgard's HP). Gut says Necron.
Ghaleon (Lunars) vs Rolf (PS2)

Heavy:

Precis (SO2) vs Valeria (Suikos)- Super, Algol was atrocious rate (not ever duel useful level I think)
Cecilia (WA1) vs Dart (LoD)
Ultros (FF6) vs Cecil (FF4)- Should just outslug, Cecil damage.
Billy (XG) vs Augustine (S3)

Middle:

Ernest (SO2) vs Lemina (Lunar:EBC)- 2HKOs, he doesn't. Also, you are thinking of Mia Super.
Vormav (FFT) vs Lunn (Lunar:EBC)- Oh god it's Lunn
Mia (Lunar:SSSC) vs Cait Sith (FF7)
Ashton (SO2) vs Nash (Lunar:SSSC)- Lunar swarmed this Middle this week

Light:

Guillaume (S3) vs Leon (SO2)
Hrist (VP1) vs Amy (PS2)
Rafa (FFT) vs Freed Y (S2)
Selphie (FF8) vs Mogu (BoF1)

[Cmdr_King]

Godlike:

Albert Simon (SH1) vs Worker 8 (FFT)- Yeah, not feeling !!! vs Worker.
Royce (Lunar:SSSC) vs Songi (LoL1)- No vote.
Asgard (WA3) vs Necron (FF9)- gut.
Ghaleon (Lunars) vs Rolf (PS2)- No vote.

Heavy:

Precis (SO2) vs Valeria (Suikos)- Pass.
Cecilia (WA1) vs Dart (LoD)
Ultros (FF6) vs Cecil (FF4)
Billy (XG) vs Augustine (S3)

Middle:

Ernest (SO2) vs Lemina (Lunar:EBC)- Pass.
Vormav (FFT) vs Lunn (Lunar:EBC)
Mia (Lunar:SSSC) vs Cait Sith (FF7)
Ashton (SO2) vs Nash (Lunar:SSSC)- Pass.  How the hell did SO2 saturate like this.  Bloody SO2 fighters and their speed.

Light:

Guillaume (S3) vs Leon (SO2)- Gotta admit, I think if I took the duel stats even as unfavorable to Guillaume as possible, I think Leon might lose.
Hrist (VP1) vs Amy (PS2)- No vote.
Rafa (FFT) vs Freed Y (S2)- Freed would needa  couple crits in a row I don't think he's terribly likely to get?  I admit, being pretty lazy here.
Selphie (FF8) vs Mogu (BoF1)

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Albert Simon (SH1) vs Worker 8 (FFT) - Not very close. Albert doesn't even 3HKO Worker with his physical and gets 3HKOed by Worker's physical back. Add counters into the equation and this is just sad. !!! hype is pathetic and the initiative attack is downright irrelevant between magic immunity and counters. Trying to avoid counters with Status Abnormality is cute, but doesn't work if that damage's even worse. Gogogo Albert being PC HP-tastic.
Royce (Lunar:SSSC) vs Songi (LoL1) - She 2HKOs and I think Songi can't quite 3HKO back. So yeah.
Asgard (WA3) vs Necron (FF9) - Um. UM. Likely Asgard 2HKOs, Necron certainly isn't anything above PC HP (risks being below - he'd need about 1.3-4x Kuja's HP to have PC HP to me, but I'll have to find out). I kinda wish Necron's quadra-acting was legal now, since it'd render this entirely irrelevant.
Ghaleon (Lunars) vs Rolf Landale (PS2) - Rolf 3HKOs with Megid and insta-doubles! Too bad he only gets two shots of it and Fate Storm ruins his shit anyway.

Heavy:

Precis F. Neumann (SO2) vs Valeria (Suikos) - Gut of durability and speed over evade. They're pretty similar otherwise.
Cecilia Lynn Adlehyde (WA1) vs Dart (LoD) - Two Godlikes hanging around this quarter. Holy shit Cecilia against a Middle.
Ultros (FF6) vs Cecil Harvey (FF4) - Both Lete River and Opera House Ultros should do horrible things to Cecil. Ultros is faster and probably 2HKOs with Opera House (and Cecil damage sucks, so he can't OHKO), Lete River just shreds him.
Billy Lee Black (XG) vs Augustine (S3) - EDIT: So yeah, Augustine OHKOs Billy. NEVERMIND, I badly undersold Aug's damage. That's like 90% PC HP off above average speed, holy -crap-.

Ernest Raviede (SO2) vs Lemina Ausa (Lunar:EBC) - Holy crap EBO Lemina you get manhandled by Ernest.
Vormav Tingel (FFT) vs Lunn (Lunar:EBC) - no.
Mia Ausa (Lunar:SSSC) vs Cait Sith (FF7) - Welp.
Ashton Anchors (SO2) vs Nash Rumack (Lunar:SSSC) - WELP.

Guillaume (S3) vs Leon S. Geeste (SO2) - Oh for fuck's sake.
Hrist Valkyrie (VP1) vs Amy Sage (PS2) - As much as I'd like to see a High Heavy munching through a Light season out of spite, rules are rules.
Rafa Galthana  (FFT) vs Freed Yamamoto (S2) - Freed has a speed disadvantage here (slight) and he'd probably need to crit twice in a row to break Rafa's average pseudoparasitic healing. She can get unlucky and Freed can get lucky, but yeah.
Selphie Tilmitt (FF8) vs Mogu (BoF1) - :mogu:

[superaielman]

Re: Algol. Fair enough! Lemina has Ice Shell, it just never comes up because how the fuck often do fighters fail to 2HKO her? I think Ernest can resist all the parts of catastrophe for me (turning it into a long fight) but it doesn't matter due to Ice shell/Cryo Shield.

Cmdr: Even if Ashton is fast enough to get first blood against Nash, he has to OHKO.  That's not going to happen.  Flipside is that Precis is clearly faster than Valeria (who is sluggish in S1), but her really high defense is enough to drop Precis to a 3HKO.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Doesn't EBC Cryo Shield degenerate over time? That was kinda the case in EBO and that also plays into why Ernest > EBO Lemina - along with the whole "Lemina struggles to 8HKO him!" part.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Godlike:

Albert Simon (SH1) vs Worker 8 (FFT): See Snow more or less. Albert Simon can't avoid counters with ANYTHING here for the record (Status Abnormality has the same animation as a normal physical, just with an extra added effect... FFT counter gets things like that). W8 quite possibly kills in fewer hits but counter means he doesn't have to.
Asgard (WA3) vs Necron (FF9): My views mean Necron's still really good, but I think he wins even without that. Asgard vs. ID immunity's pretty crappy anyway... see Dhyer.

Heavy:

Precis (SO2) vs Valeria (Suikos): Gut.
Cecilia (WA1) vs Dart (LoD): Parasol + Dummy Doll = lol.
Ultros (FF6) vs Cecil (FF4): Uhh needs math, but probably Ultros. Cecil can win if he 2HKOs (Ultros is about 66% pdur) and and isn't 2HKOed. But he's probably 2HKOed, Ultros damage is fairly monstrous.
Billy (XG) vs Augustine (S3): Haste/heal. Augustine damage is not very spiky at all.

Middle:

Ernest (SO2) vs Lemina (Lunar:EBC): Lemina's not -that- fragile so she shouldn't be 2HKOed by Ernest. Doesn't fail to 2HKO herself.
Vormav (FFT) vs Lunn (Lunar:EBC): wtf is this, no
Mia (Lunar:SSSC) vs Cait Sith (FF7): Have some status.
Ashton (SO2) vs Nash (Lunar:SSSC): Have some status.

Light:

Guillaume (S3) vs Leon (SO2): Um um um Guillaume if taken generously could actually win this reasonably, but I don't want to think about that.
Rafa (FFT) vs Freed Y (S2): Sure.
Selphie (FF8) vs Mogu (BoF1): Uh well Selphie probably doesn't need a limit here, does she?

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Billy (XG) vs Augustine (S3): Haste/heal. Augustine damage is not very spiky at all.

It's not, it's just weirdly very good. Even by Dhyer's notes (in which physical damage in general takes a hit), it's 89% PC HP damage, and Billy's roughly 0.86 PC HP for pdur. Augustine's very accurate too, so Billy evade probably won't help in swinging it down.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I remember Augustine's damage being considerably lower in Gourry's stat topic, which also fits with my memory of him when I played the game. I dunno if it was a matter of him barely squeezing out a fifth swing? But if neither Gourry's notes nor my own informal info gathering gave him that much, I'm not inclined to give it to him in the DL.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

I remember Augustine's damage being considerably lower in Gourry's stat topic, which also fits with my memory of him when I played the game. I dunno if it was a matter of him barely squeezing out a fifth swing? But if neither Gourry's notes nor my own informal info gathering gave him that much, I'm not inclined to give it to him in the DL.

It could possibly be that, while swings factor into Red Rose and other command runes, crits don't, which benefits those in lieu of those basic physicals. I'll admit I had the same gut as you due to in-game experience, but without having Gourry's topic (which I used instead of Dhyer's for pure damage!) for reference any longer, though, I'm sorta personally forced to use what's available to factor in whenever I do math. I'll check other command runes to see if I can recognize that inflation, which shouldn't be hard.

EDIT: Nope, intuitively, only Red Rose shows the crazy fluctuation between topics, and it seems that it SHOULD factor in criticals anyway (as the way Dhyer factored Phoenix Rune's damage shows), which shouldn't benefit that command at all. What's the supposed mult on Red Rose, anyway? This is -weird-.

[Random Consonant]

Godlike:
Royce (Lunar:SSSC) vs Songi (LoL1) - Mmmhmm.
Asgard (WA3) vs Necron (FF9) - no

Heavy:

Precis (SO2) vs Valeria (Suikos) - sure
Cecilia (WA1) vs Dart (LoD)
Ultros (FF6) vs Cecil (FF4) - very likely murders before Cecil can.  back row's a wash for Cecil the short-ranged swordfighter.

Middle:

Ernest (SO2) vs Lemina (Lunar:EBC) - I think EBC Cryo Shell just wore off normally.  Could be wrong and it doesn't matter here.
Vormav (FFT) vs Lunn (Lunar:EBC) - fuck this
Mia (Lunar:SSSC) vs Cait Sith (FF7) - ribbit
Ashton (SO2) vs Nash (Lunar:SSSC) - snorg

Light:
oh man rafa slapfight and MOGU. no.

[Dhyerwolf]

I remember Augustine's damage being considerably lower in Gourry's stat topic, which also fits with my memory of him when I played the game. I dunno if it was a matter of him barely squeezing out a fifth swing? But if neither Gourry's notes nor my own informal info gathering gave him that much, I'm not inclined to give it to him in the DL.

EDIT: Nope, intuitively, only Red Rose shows the crazy fluctuation between topics, and it seems that it SHOULD factor in criticals anyway (as the way Dhyer factored Phoenix Rune's damage shows), which shouldn't benefit that command at all. What's the supposed mult on Red Rose, anyway? This is -weird-.

Both are 2x (so...if Phoenix Rune was critting, it would be getting another 300 damage). Don't remember Gourry's numbers, but there are a lot of PCs where I was able to move things around and get an extra swing out of it (Granted, S Swing means reaching 750 in base physical should not be difficult).

[Lance]

Godlike
Albert Simon (SH1) vs Worker 8 (FFT)
Asgard (WA3) vs Necron (FF9)
Ghaleon (Lunars) vs Rolf (PS2)

Heavy
Precis (SO2) vs Valeria (Suikos)
Ultros (FF6) vs Cecil (FF4)
Billy (XG) vs Augustine (S3)

Middle
Ernest (SO2) vs Lemina (Lunar:EBC)
Vormav (FFT) vs Lunn (Lunar:EBC)
Mia (Lunar:SSSC) vs Cait Sith (FF7)
Ashton (SO2) vs Nash (Lunar:SSSC)

Light
Guillaume (S3) vs Leon (SO2)
Hrist (VP1) vs Amy (PS2)
Rafa (FFT) vs Freed Y (S2)
Selphie (FF8) vs Mogu (BoF1)

[superaielman]

Updating tomorrow. Get your votes in now!

[Nephrite]

Godlike:

Albert Simon (SH1) vs Worker 8 (FFT)- I don't think !!! will do anything to worker. Simon's physical is competent enough against 0 evade and Grace gives him an extra hit. Counters could tip the fight for Worker, but he needs to hit two counters to win to me offhand.  Someone convince me otherwise, I want to see Worker kick the shit out of Songi next week.
Royce (Lunar:SSSC) vs Songi (LoL1)- What the fuck, Songi is *faster?* That should make up for Royce's better offense and durability.
Asgard (WA3) vs Necron (FF9)- Bet he 2HKOs here, Necron's HP is pretty bad.
Ghaleon (Lunars) vs Rolf (PS2)- Fate Storm. Ghaleon's a jerk to PC's.

Heavy:

Precis (SO2) vs Valeria (Suikos)- Tanks through barrier spam. Falcon might trigger a Algol counter, but I never did get precise rates on that so eh. Not giving it the benefit of the doubt.
Cecilia (WA1) vs Dart (LoD)- Get out of Heavy, Dart.
Ultros (FF6) vs Cecil (FF4)- Outslugs. He resists/immunes Ultros's tricks.
Billy (XG) vs Augustine (S3)- Goddess Eyes being glitched costs Billy the fight. He's constantly on the defensive, and he has issues breaking through Augustine's evasion.

Middle:

Ernest (SO2)vs Lemina (Lunar:EBC)-  Wow. Lemina isn't 2HKOed by a fighter, that almost never happens. It gives her enough time to set up ice shell.
Vormav (FFT) vs Lunn (Lunar:EBC)- Vormav handles pure physical well enough.
Mia (Lunar:SSSC) vs Cait Sith (FF7)- Status.
Ashton (SO2) vs Nash (Lunar:SSSC)- Status.

Light:

Guillaume (S3) vs Leon (SO2)- Ew. On so many levels.
Hrist (VP1) vs Amy (PS2)
Rafa (FFT) vs Freed Y (S2)- Resisting thunder hurts Freed's already awful damage.
Selphie (FF8) vs Mogu (BoF1)- This fails.

[Pyro]

Godlike:

Albert Simon (SH1) vs Worker 8 (FFT): I think? W8 is a special PC but still a PC.
Royce (Lunar:SSSC) vs Songi (LoL1): Royce has the right defense stat here.
Asgard (WA3) vs Necron (FF9): Asgard is more of a PC killer.
Ghaleon (Lunars) vs Rolf (PS2)

Heavy:

Precis (SO2) vs Valeria (Suikos)
Cecilia (WA1) vs Dart (LoD)
Ultros (FF6) vs Cecil (FF4)
Billy (XG) vs Augustine (S3): Abstain, I suppose.

Middle:

Ernest (SO2) vs Lemina (Lunar:EBC): Not 2HKO'd, 2HKOs
Vormav (FFT) vs Lunn (Lunar:EBC)
Mia (Lunar:SSSC) vs Cait Sith (FF7)
Ashton (SO2) vs Nash (Lunar:SSSC)

Light:

Guillaume (S3) vs Leon (SO2)
Hrist (VP1) vs Amy (PS2)
Rafa (FFT) vs Freed Y (S2): Surely suiko-style crits are a boon here.
Selphie (FF8) vs Mogu (BoF1): Hell no.