Author Topic: RPGDL 2013 Season 1, Week 1: SAGAFEDLGO  (Read 3386 times)

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: RPGDL 2013 Season 1, Week 1: SAGAFEDLGO
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2013, 04:31:37 AM »
Zegai is so not Middle, he's never done any serious damage before in board tournaments / the DL. That speed is just too horrible. Also I don't see him anywhere near 1.6 pdur, at least, but whatever, Untold Clarity plot.

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superaielman

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Re: RPGDL 2013 Season 1, Week 1: SAGAFEDLGO
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2013, 02:10:53 PM »
Zegai  only had two appearances in the DL. One, he was spoiled by Cyan (... to getting spoiled by Cyan but ANYWAY) and the other was the very last season, where he likely would have gotten to the finals and lost to one of Kahn/Alonso. That would have put him in an upgrade match against Selma if he had lost the finals, and Paula if he had won the light match. I don't think he would have upgraded against Selma.

I'd have to put him in his paces in something like proving grounds to get a real feel for him, but  my kneejerk after looking over the last five-ten seasons of the DL is that he would do damage in most light seasons, but loses to both light finalists.  That places him solidly in high light.

Different note: I'm strongly considering scaling FF8 limits against each other. I don't know if this has any actual impact, but I've always been a little annoyed that even scrubby damage limits (hi Irvine, Rinoa and temps) become so godly in the DL.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 02:13:39 PM by superaielman »
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SnowFire

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Re: RPGDL 2013 Season 1, Week 1: SAGAFEDLGO
« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2013, 05:35:38 PM »
Yeah, we'll see about Zegai.  He's clearly not much good in Middle but I want to think he wins at least a few matchs there, while it's only solid status that gets past Yellow Scarf in time (....CYAN) that he really fears in Light, since he should probably out slugfest most of Light.  (Also to be clear I'd strongly casual kneejerk Zegai as being a meh Light, just the stat topic does seem to indicate otherwise.  Also insert usual disclaimer about "my TB->CTB speed caps are fairly strict" since double-turns don't actually happen in-game.)

super: Irvine has either the most damaging limit or the 2nd most damaging limit in the game, depending on how good you are with Zell.  You can empty ~60-80 Fast Shots given enough time with him....   it's even better when Meltdown is in effect, but even when it's not, I'd be surprised if it wasn't awesome anyway.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: RPGDL 2013 Season 1, Week 1: SAGAFEDLGO
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2013, 05:44:59 PM »
Woohoo dealing ST damage that overkills everything by spending 80 items a pop when you can deal damage that's slightly less overkill to everything and can actually do crowd control with far less buttonmashing and no resource expenditure with other PCs. Comparatively, it's just a lot less bang for your buck. Also, DL-wise, that level of output from Fast Shot likely borders into needing an auto-turbo controller. I certainly don't see people allowing 30+ super jumps for Mario in the DL, not inclined to see Irvine's limit that way either. Not that it -matters- outside of scaling limits against themselves, but honestly, considering how bad FF8 already is even without that, I don't think there's a point to making them look even worse.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 05:47:17 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
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superaielman

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Re: RPGDL 2013 Season 1, Week 1: SAGAFEDLGO
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2013, 06:18:13 PM »
Also, I am reasonably sure Guido beats Ramus. Ramus is more durable by a lot (He's over PC HP) but he's slower and may have less damage. The speed is the problem; the fight goes on long enough for Guido to sneak in an extra turn. That probably offsets the difference in durability. In short, DEATH TO CMDR.

Also, Auron can't just power break Hector and wait for an overdrive?
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 06:27:08 PM by superaielman »
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: RPGDL 2013 Season 1, Week 1: SAGAFEDLGO
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2013, 06:39:52 PM »
If Hector doubles, probably not, because Hector's offense when that happens is monstrous. Power Break also gives Hector a headstart with about 50-60% PC HP worth of damage -post-Power Break- due to counters and then Hector gets -another- swing. By the time Auron can start baiting for Sentinel, he's at death's door and I don't think he can win the damage race even with the increasing damage from lost HP. Maybe he could try going full Sentinel baiting, which turns the fight into a bonafide trainwreck.
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Pyro

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Re: RPGDL 2013 Season 1, Week 1: SAGAFEDLGO
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2013, 11:07:29 PM »
All this talk about CTB and FE doubles makes me want to mention how easy it is when you use double rates and factor them into damage and durability. :)

Does NOT help Hector here. His natural double rate is low so his damage is poorer by comparison with the rest of his cast.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: RPGDL 2013 Season 1, Week 1: SAGAFEDLGO
« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2013, 03:37:29 AM »
super: Irvine has either the most damaging limit or the 2nd most damaging limit in the game, depending on how good you are with Zell.  You can empty ~60-80 Fast Shots given enough time with him....   it's even better when Meltdown is in effect, but even when it's not, I'd be surprised if it wasn't awesome anyway.

The stat topic has less respect for Fast Shot than you. Even at Crisis Level 4, it's listed as 46 shots and does 7820 damage. Using your figure of 70 it does 11900, not even his strongest limit (although it is the strongest storebought). By comparison...

Squall at CLv 4 = 8 Renzokuken hits + Rough Divide is ~11500. If Lionheart goes off (~25%), this becomes ~80k
Zell at CLv 4 = Assuming 3 hits per second = ~19000
Rinoa at CLv 4 = Wishing Star, ~49000
Quistic at CLv4 = 11800 [disclaimer about actually getting this applies]

At crisis level below 4, Irvine loses more than any other PC save Rinoa, so Squall pulls clearly past him in particular (Squall only loses 1 Renzokuken hit per level). In other words, he's always third at best, and the others aren't limited by 1-2 uses before needing to restock inventory (so he deserves all the in-game contempt he gets, there's a reason he and Selphie basically tied for lowest score in Meeple's in-game use thread). If you don't have mad button-mashing skillz, then Irvine's damage falls to meagre levels, and is in fact the lowest of any PC in the stat topic save Selphie.

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SnowFire

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Re: RPGDL 2013 Season 1, Week 1: SAGAFEDLGO
« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2013, 03:54:31 AM »
Oh, of course, if you're looking for in-game Irvine hype look elsewhere.  It's an interesting niche that matters for Omega Weapon and nothing else.  Just super claimed Irvine's limit was relatively bad in the "who can do ST overkill the overkilliest" contest, and eh, I still don't think it really requires mad button-mashing skillz.  Zell I can see genuinely screwing up.  Irvine is "push a button fast," no Turbo controller needed.

Not sure why the stat topic antihypes Fast Shot so much.  I strongly suspect that this might be an artifact of using unjunctioned PCs + no Meltdown; 255 Str Irvine vs. a Meltdown'd opponent (and by opponent I mean "Omega Weapon" or possibly Ultimecia for anyone to theoretically care) will be inflicting uber damage with Fast Shot but the fancier shots are basically wasted.  (I'm sure similar odd things happen in other stat topics if the DL assumption was all characters fight without weapons similar to the lack of the Str junction, which might cause certain low-damage high-attack rate abilities to suck more.)  But I'd have to check myself to be sure and really it doesn't matter since if Irvine's limit goes off in DL Light he's winning short of something really weird anyway even if the limit is nerfed to hell.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: RPGDL 2013 Season 1, Week 1: SAGAFEDLGO
« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2013, 04:52:03 AM »
Oh, against Omega Weapon with max stats all that matters is number of hits because of stupidity related to the damage cap, so of course that helps Irvine. (Never mind that if, e.g., Squall's limit is being held back by the damage cap, then you're overkilling everything anyway. Even Omega only has like 300k if you don't let your level get out of control.)

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Cmdr_King

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Re: RPGDL 2013 Season 1, Week 1: SAGAFEDLGO
« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2013, 07:40:20 AM »
Godlike

Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs Kyogre (Pokémon)
Alicia (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Bloodbane (Valkyrie Profile)
TimeLord (SaGa Frontier) vs Elincia (Fire Emblem Series)
ZEKE (SaGa Frontier) vs Elidibs (Final Fantasy Tactics)

Heavy

Hector (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Auron (Final Fantasy X)
Billy Lee Black (Xenogears) vs Kika (Suikoden IV)
Ephraim (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Limstella (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword)
Umi (Cthulhu Saves the World) vs Palom (Final Fantasy IV)

Middle

Canas (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Kesaran Pasaran (Wild ARMs 4)
White Rose (SaGa Frontier) vs Eiko  Carol (Final Fantasy IX)
Rinoa Heartlily (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Jill (Fire Emblem: Series)- I think.  I suppose I should check Jill's durability but eh.
Odessa (Suikoden) vs Jean (Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete)

Light

Estella (Suikoden III) vs Aeris Gainsborough (Final Fantasy VII)
Solt (Chrono Cross) vs Baigan (Final Fantasy IV)
Zegai (Suikoden V) vs Laguna Liore (Final Fantasy VIII)
Ramus Farmain (Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete) vs Guido (Grandia)
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Dhyerwolf

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Re: RPGDL 2013 Season 1, Week 1: SAGAFEDLGO
« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2013, 09:39:27 AM »
All this talk about CTB and FE doubles makes me want to mention how easy it is when you use double rates and factor them into damage and durability. :)

Does NOT help Hector here. His natural double rate is low so his damage is poorer by comparison with the rest of his cast.

Hector's natural double rate is pretty average I think (thanks to the lackluster nature of FE enemies at this time, basically everyone doubles most enemies at endgame. Another good reason to take double rates against in game enemies as even characters with notably below average AS are not having issues at endgame really!).
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MalcolmMasher

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Re: RPGDL 2013 Season 1, Week 1: SAGAFEDLGO
« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2013, 09:32:35 AM »
Godlike

ZEKE (SaGa Frontier) vs Elidibs (Final Fantasy Tactics) - I don't think Elidibs OHKOs in time.

Heavy

Hector (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Auron (Final Fantasy X) - Double-rate Hector 3HKOs with a Killing Edge, while having enough HP to soak Auron's own attacks. However, Auron can and should open with an initiative Power Break, and now he'll get the extra hits he needs. Granted, Auron's awful speed means he probably gets double turned at some point, but since both of them counterattack I don't expect that to matter much.

Ephraim (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Limstella (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword)
Umi (Cthulhu Saves the World) vs Palom (Final Fantasy IV) - Pretty sure either Umi can kill 4o Palom before he gets a turn.

Middle

Canas (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Kesaran Pasaran (Wild ARMs 4) - At least I vaguely remembered Retinite.
White Rose (SaGa Frontier) vs Eiko  Carol (Final Fantasy IX) - Either can outstall the other's big damage, but WhiteRose's free options are better than Eiko's.
Rinoa Heartilly (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Jill (Fire Emblem: Series) - FE9 Jill strikes first, counters, and 3HKOs. Not buying a lucky limit for Rinoa.

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Re: RPGDL 2013 Season 1, Week 1: SAGAFEDLGO
« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2013, 07:21:09 PM »
Godlike

Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World) vs Kyogre (Pokémon): Lady goes first, deals significant damage to Kyogre, ruining Waterspout.  Calm Mind + Rest might give him a chance but Lady just mocks buff strategies.
Alicia (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Bloodbane (Valkyrie Profile) : I think he'll get a lucky status in before she kills him, assuming she resists Lightning enough to not just be fried.
TimeLord (SaGa Frontier) vs Elincia (Fire Emblem Series): Goes first, Overdrive -> Time Eclipse multiple times.
ZEKE (SaGa Frontier) vs Elidibs (Final Fantasy Tactics): Kneejerk.

Heavy

Hector (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Auron (Final Fantasy X): Auron opens with Power Break, then the two trade hits (and counters!) but Auron's damage increases every time he's hit and probably gives him the win.
Billy Lee Black (Xenogears) vs Kika (Suikoden IV): Going to assume Haste lets Billy get out of the Heal Lock, and instant lap of Kika to heal on top of that.
Ephraim (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Limstella (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword): She can't move, so I don't see her avoiding counters despite ranged attacks.
Umi (Cthulhu Saves the World) vs Palom (Final Fantasy IV): Can't vote.

Middle

Canas (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Kesaran Pasaran (Wild ARMs 4):  I don't even remember this boss and I played WA4 twice.
White Rose (SaGa Frontier) vs Eiko Carol (Final Fantasy IX): Don't think there's much Eiko can do here.   She wishes FF9 buffs didn't suck as much as they do.
Rinoa Heartlily (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Jill (Fire Emblem: Series): Jill counters Rinoa and has crits and Stun.  Rinoa doesn't stand a chance here; also, Jill is tanky.
Odessa (Suikoden) vs Jean (Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete): Kneejerk.

Light

Estella (Suikoden III) vs Aeris Gainsborough (Final Fantasy VII): Aeris vs. someone who can manipulate damage quite well.
Solt (Chrono Cross) vs Baigan (Final Fantasy IV): Solt is god awful.
Zegai (Suikoden V) vs Laguna Liore (Final Fantasy VIII): Laguna's not as bad as Solt, but the respect isn't there.
Ramus Farmain (Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete) vs Guido (Grandia): Guido is bad, but good god is Ramus that much worse.
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Twilkitri

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Re: RPGDL 2013 Season 1, Week 1: SAGAFEDLGO
« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2013, 07:51:06 AM »
Godlike

Heavy

Hector (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Auron (Final Fantasy X)
Billy Lee Black (Xenogears) vs Kika (Suikoden IV)
Ephraim (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Limstella (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword)
Umi (Cthulhu Saves the World) vs Palom (Final Fantasy IV)

Middle

Canas (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword) vs Kesaran Pasaran (Wild ARMs 4)
White Rose (SaGa Frontier) vs Eiko  Carol (Final Fantasy IX)
Rinoa Heartlily (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Jill (Fire Emblem: Series)
Odessa (Suikoden) vs Jean (Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete)

Light

Estella (Suikoden III) vs Aeris Gainsborough (Final Fantasy VII)
Solt (Chrono Cross) vs Baigan (Final Fantasy IV)
Zegai (Suikoden V) vs Laguna Liore (Final Fantasy VIII)
Ramus Farmain (Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete) vs Guido (Grandia)

Cmdr_King

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Re: RPGDL 2013 Season 1, Week 1: SAGAFEDLGO
« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2013, 12:19:51 AM »
Godlike

Lady (Shadow Hearts: From the New World)- iiiiii vs Kyogre (Pokémon)- iii
Alicia (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Bloodbane (Valkyrie Profile)- iiiiiiiiiiii
TimeLord (SaGa Frontier)- iiiiiiiiiii vs Elincia (Fire Emblem Series)
ZEKE (SaGa Frontier)- iiiiii vs Elidibs (Final Fantasy Tactics)- ii

Heavy

Hector (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword)- i vs Auron (Final Fantasy X)- iiiiiiiiiiiii
Billy Lee Black (Xenogears)- iiiiiiii vs Kika (Suikoden IV)- ii
Ephraim (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones)- iiiiiiiiiiiiii vs Limstella (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword)
Umi (Cthulhu Saves the World)- iiiiiiii vs Palom (Final Fantasy IV)

Middle

Canas (Fire Emblem: The Blazing Sword)- iiiiiiii vs Kesaran Pasaran (Wild ARMs 4)
White Rose (SaGa Frontier)- iiiiiiiiiiii vs Eiko  Carol (Final Fantasy IX)
Rinoa Heartlily (Final Fantasy VIII) vs Jill Fizzart (Fire Emblem: Series)- iiiiiiiiiiiiii
Odessa (Suikoden)- iiiiiiiii vs Jean (Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete)- iii

Light

Estella (Suikoden III)- iiiiiiiiiii vs Aeris Gainsborough (Final Fantasy VII)
Solt (Chrono Cross) vs Baigan (Final Fantasy IV)- iiiiiiiiiiii
Zegai (Suikoden V)- iiiiiiiiiiii vs Laguna Liore (Final Fantasy VIII)
Ramus Farmain (Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete)- iiiii vs Guido (Grandia)- iiiiii
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