Puny cup losers round 2: The hero Midgar deserves.

[superaielman]

Piplup>Sandy
Mindy>Mogu
Hetzel>Adam
Slime>Shion

Big Joe 5, Cinna 3
Magikarp>Solt
Pichu>Leon
Siegfried>Connie

Losers round=Adam rules. Adam rules means you vote for the person who is worse/loses the fight. IE: Jogurt>Dekar>Ghaleon here, where you'd reverse that in the DL.



Gato (CT) vs Cindy (FF4)
Cathe (FE6) vs Edward (FF4o)
Ditto (RBY) vs Jogurt (SF1)
Torneko Taloon (DQ4) vs Alenia (S5)


Rody (S3) vs Gobi (BoF1)
Euram Barows (S5) vs Boney (Mother 3)
Healie (DQ4) vs Rufus Shinra (FF7)
Mariel (ACF) vs Caitua Pavel [Dark Priest, boss] (TO)

[superaielman]

Gato (CT) vs Cindy (FF4)
Cathe (FE6) vs Edward (FF4o- I remember recruiting Cathe... I think. Anyway, Edward is that bad against fighters.
Ditto (RBY) vsJogurt (SF1) The like one fight Ditto can win.
Torneko Taloon (DQ4) vs Alenia (S5)- Kneejerk. Taloon should do no worse than 3HKO Alenia, and is probably going first.  he can also resist fire as well. Will listen to arguments, but I am pretty much always in favor of *lol Alenia* as a response to any match with her.

Rody (S3) vs Gobi (BoF1)- Gobi's got much better damage. That should be enough.
Healie (DQ4) vs Rufus Shinra (FF7)- *surely*. Rufus is utterly hopeless on damage. Healie's durability and damage are godawful, but I don't think it's godawful enough to sink him against Rufus's mighty 10HKO or so shotgun blasts.

[SnowFire]

Gato (CT) vs Cindy (FF4)
Cathe (FE6) vs Edward (FF4o)
Cathe has 4 DEFENSE TO A 13 DEFENSE AVERAGE.  Backed by .62 PCHP.  Since 18 damage appears to be "average" to the FE6 cast, Edward is dealing 150% his normal damage if that is used, and quite possibly better if endgame enemies are used who won't hit that hard normally so that Cathe's terrible subtractive defense hurts her even more.  Additionally, and I'm not sure how much I respect this, Cathe is technically slightly below average speed, so Edward's confuse game might work?  Regardless, Edward's harps probably avoid counters here (despite Elphin having range 1?!), he goes first due to Cathe's below average move, and Edward solidly 3HKOs.  Can Cathe 2HKO?  Stat topic claims she has half average damage, so she deals a tad more than .40 PCHP due to Edward's bad defense...  which...  Edward hides at .44 PCHP.  FAIL.  Holy crap, exactly how bad Edward's earlygame FF4 defense is matters here, as does Rosa's impact on the averages.  supeeeeeeeeeeeer!
EDIT: So FF4 defense is a subtractive trainwreck which varies in effectiveness by how many hits are incoming, and how many hits are hidden from view.  Against a single large hit for .40 PCHP, FF4 defense is practically irrelevant, except enemy damage is much less in practice and there's some amount of multihitting, and it doesn't take much upward adjustment of FF4 damage respect for Cathe to just barely, barely psuedo-2HKO via knocking Edward into a hide-lock.  Sheesh, this is just the kind of enemy that Edward "spoils" and he still loses.  Unless someone wants to hype his sleep game?  Cathe has terrible RES too...
Torneko Taloon (DQ4) vs Alenia (S5)
Taloon can resist fire? 'k then.
EDIT: NOT EVEN RESISTING FIRE CAN SAVE TALOON NOOOOOOOOOOO
EDIT TO THE EDIT: Apparently I've been overrating Alenia's tankiness.  Silly me thinking she can survive a mighty .28 PCHP damage and avoid a 2HKO.  Although it is depressingly close.

Rody (S3) vs Gobi (BoF1)
Healie (DQ4) vs Rufus Shinra (FF7) More Rufus HP respect and 0 Healie offense respect.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Gato (CT) vs Cindy (FF4): Oh wow. Yeah, Mindy would take this, but probably not Cindy.
Cathe (FE6) vs Edward (FF4o): See Snowfire except uh harps in FF4 are short-range so eat counters and lose? He can use a bow to avoid that but then I imagine he's being outslugged.
Ditto (RBY) vs Jogurt (SF1): Ditto transforms into a Jogurt with more than 1 hit point, watch the fuck out world.
Torneko Taloon (DQ4) vs Alenia (S5): I doubt even halving fire is good enough.


Rody (S3) vs Gobi (BoF1): Gobi and Mogu are bad PCs but don't quite register on the "completely wretched" scale that runeless Rody does.
Healie (DQ4) vs Rufus Shinra (FF7): Tricky. I'll get back to you.
Mariel (ACF) vs Caitua Pavel [Dark Priest, boss] (TO): Mariel fails to break defence on basically anything and is so ridiculously underlevelled that I rather suspect Catiua OHKOs her.

[Random Consonant]

Gato (CT) vs Cindy (FF4)
Cathe (FE6) vs Edward (FF4o) - gj edward
Ditto (RBY) vs Jogurt (SF1)
Torneko Taloon (DQ4) vs Alenia (S5) - Alenia who falls in less than a turn in-game.

Rody (S3) vs Gobi (BoF1)
Euram Barows (S5) vs Boney (Mother 3) - Boney registers on the damage curve.
Healie (DQ4) vs Rufus Shinra (FF7) - Insert Rufus respect somewhere else.

[Cmdr_King]

Gato (CT) vs Cindy (FF4)
Cathe (FE6) vs Edward (FF4o)
Ditto (RBY) vs Jogurt (SF1)- No vote.
Torneko Taloon (DQ4) vs Alenia (S5)


Rody (S3) vs Gobi (BoF1)
Euram Barows (S5) vs Boney (Mother 3)- No vote.
Healie (DQ4) vs Rufus Shinra (FF7)- Probably anyway.
Mariel (ACF) vs Caitua Pavel [Dark Priest, boss] (TO)- No vote

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Gato (CT) vs Cindy (FF4) - Just... so... bad. Counters quite possibly tip this to boot.
Cathe (FE6) vs Edward Chris von Muir (FF4o) - Edward, the worsest.
Ditto (RBY) vs Jogurt (ShF1) - Jogurt for champ.
Torneko Taloon (DQ4) vs Alenia (S5) - Alenia just has too much damage, in hindsight.

Rody (S3) vs Gobi (BoF1) - Rody is impressively wretched.
Healie (DQ4) vs Rufus Shinra (FF7) - Oh dear god.
Mariel (ACF) vs Catiua Pavel [Dark Priest, boss] (TO) - Mariel against anything. She's a bonafide Puny even if you give her L50 stats (which she rightfully should NEVER GET).

[SnowFire]

Jo'ou: Did you mean to "vote" for Mariel?

Also, checking the stat topic....  holy shit is non-Sword of Miracles Taloon bad (and I assume since this is the Puny Cup that's what we're voting on).  Not sure what Zenny was smoking when he called Taloon a low Middle even allowing the SoM, maybe allowing free choice of his rando-moves.  I thought he at least had HP, but apparently not, and he's slow, and super said that his fire resist is only -33% or something.  He has in the realm of .14 PCHP damage if his good rando-moves don't fire.  Alenia is le terrible, but I kneejerk her as maybe .30-.35 PCHP, so Taloon somehow only 3HKOs and goes second.  Alenia can 3HKO first through the resistance, sure.  (Allowing Sword of Miracles for Taloon & Cristo knocks Taloon up to a 2HKO I believe, so close match.)  Vote switched.

[superaielman]

Zenny wrote that stat topic over a decade ago, so hard to blame him too much. That said, if I had as much Alenia HP respect as you I'd probably vote for her.

[SnowFire]

Well, the end-game damage average is 576.  576*6=3456.  (2700 / 3456) * .4 = .31 PCHP.  To Alenia's credit, she has (horrible) support credit and Royal Paradise and such likely doesn't exist or isn't maxed; to her discredit, everyone who wants good runes grabs DL-illegal stuff, especially mages, and you are also not taking an "average" party into the fight but presumably a "good" party and also have team-up attacks if you want them.  Hrmm, that's actually pretty horrible, now that I think about it.  Maybe she does sink beneath the dread .28 PCHP "2HKOed by Taloon" gap.  This is depressing.

[superaielman]

I see her around .25 PC HP. There's just too much insanity in terms of offense- the game doesn't throw crazy broken physical setups. As my notes of that fight said, Richard grossly overkilled her in a single attack. That is not the sign of a boss with a ton of HP.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I don't factor in the number of PCs a boss faces, but yeah if I did I'd probably see her as bad enough to lose this. S5 has all those awesome power-boosting runes like boost, fury, power, double-edge, etc.

Despite what super says there is no setup which will one-shot her reliably (requires at least one extra swing/glow/crit, and -overkill- requires either both or a 3x crit or a 3x+ swing) but the fact that (many) ones that do so with a % chance exist is pretty bad.

[MalcolmMasher]

Gato (CT) vs Cindy (FF4)
Cathe (FE6) vs Edward (FF4o) So close, Edward. So close.