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Author Topic: Proving Grounds Light 1-Bravely Default, go!  (Read 1244 times)

superaielman

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Proving Grounds Light 1-Bravely Default, go!
« on: May 06, 2014, 01:43:10 AM »
Red Mage (Bravely Default) vs Frog (CT)
Red Mage vs Meru (LoD)
Red Mage vs Chloe (MK2)
Red Mage vs Oscar (FE9)
Red Mage vs Peter (SF2)
Red Mage vs Lilly (S3)
Red Mage vs Shu (AtL2)
Red Mage vs Vitali (SN)
Red Mage vs Selphie (FF8)
Red Mage vs Sten (BoF2)
Red Mage vs Aeris (FF7)
Red Mage vs Lissa (FE13)

Freelancer (Bravely Default) vs Frog (CT)
Freelancer vs Meru (LoD)
Freelancer vs Chloe (MK2)
Freelancer vs Oscar (FE9)
Freelancer vs Peter (SF2)
Freelancer vs Lilly (S3)
Freelancer vs Shu (AtL2)
Freelancer vs Vitali (SN)
Freelancer vs Selphie (FF8)
Freelancer vs Sten (BoF2)
Freelancer vs Aeris (FF7)
Freelancer vs Lissa (FE13)

Mareg (G2) vs Frog (CT)
Mareg vs Meru (LoD)
Mareg vs Chloe (MK2)
Mareg vs Oscar (FE9)
Mareg vs Peter (SF2)
Mareg vs Lilly (S3)
Mareg vs Shu (AtL2)
Mareg vs Vitali (SN)
Mareg vs Selphie (FF8)
Mareg vs Sten (BoF2)
Mareg vs Aeris (FF7)
Mareg vs Lissa (FE13)
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Proving Grounds Light 1-Bravely Default, go!
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2014, 02:31:07 AM »
Red Mage (Bravely Default) vs Frog (CT) - Frog immunes -every single relevant status- Black Mage has. So, how is he supposed to deal with him? Well, cast Reflect on Frog, sloooooooooowly whittle him down and alternate Reflect recasts until Frog finally dies. Frog may start threatening Red Mage at low HP, but the match is honestly long enough for RM to actually build up incidental BP from his passives. When that point comes up, he probably can spare an extra turn or two to make this work.
Red Mage vs Meru (LoD) - Meru certainly has the MDef to tank a casting of Sleep and she can choose to immune poison. Problem is she has so much less in the way of resources and Red Mage could conceivably buff his way into avoiding a heal lock. Will think about this.
Red Mage vs Chloe Hartzog (MK2) - Well, immune Silence and Sleep (taking more or less undisclosed stat hits) and now Red Mage needs aeons to kill Chloe. If you see Reflect affecting Chloe's offense, though, Red Mage pretty much has this unless you allow the ID weapons (I'm not sure I do for either case. NEB reminding me of what Reflect misses in-game, though, doesn't help its case). Ignoring all this, however, I'm thinking one Shell may be able to avoid a heal-lock with Summon Demon Lord, and heal-locking with Poizn Demon Lord just doesn't work out for Chloe even with Red Mage's crappy healing. Heck, he can just twink for MDef here with a Holy Miter and improve his healing, Chloe has no physical damage to speak of. Think the average of assumptions ultimately favors him, though he can't really go on the offensive with Poison castings until he runs Chloe out of gas for Poizn Demon Lord.
Red Mage vs Oscar (FE9) - Probably gets the game going early enough.
Red Mage vs Peter (SF2) - No such luck here, though. Peter's 2HKO is way too good for Red Mage to heal through and he might even go first.
Red Mage vs Lilly Pendragon (S3) - Immune Sleep, Sword of Magic, go to town.
Red Mage vs Shu (AtL2) - Shu can afford to block both Sleep and Silence and actually has enough time to land TIME BOMB SPAM. Holy crap.
Red Mage vs Vitali (SN) - There's a rather striking resource disparity here. This may take forever, but Red Mage eventually gets through.
Red Mage vs Selphie Tilmitt (FF8) - Poizn actually isn't such a great idea here, it raises Selphie's crisis levels and makes it easier for her to access her healing (or just reel for a match winner). Red Mage doesn't have a lot of problems getting his game started, but finishing it up is another matter entirely. You could say Dread shuts down limits, though... which would turn this match around. Dear god.
Red Mage vs Sten Legasy (BoF2) - Resource disparity and Silence probably seal this fight.
Red Mage vs Aeris Gainsborough (FF7) - The Poison blocker SHOULD be storebought by the time Aeris leaves, no? If that's the case, I'm not sure how Red Mage's -ever- supposed to chip through Aeris' L3. Same caveat as Selphie applies here.
Red Mage vs Lissa (FE13) - War Cleric Lissa wins this pretty flat (Red Mage doesn't really break past Renewal even with Poison + doubling), Sage Lissa loses about as definitely (lulz silence). Abstaining for now, since I don't know which one I see as her DL class.

Freelancer (Bravely Default) vs Frog (CT) - Building up Defaults and keeping up with Endure should stave off Frog Drop threats, which Frog can't really keep up for long (20 MP a pop? Eeeeew). Frog's offense is otherwise way too anemic.
Freelancer vs Meru (LoD) - Stun+paralysis - Freelancer can't really deal with both.
Freelancer vs Chloe Hartzog (MK2) - uuuuuuuuuh. I dunno, this is a kneejerk based on Freelancer's healing being pretty anemic. Endure may prove me wrong, though.
Freelancer vs Oscar (FE9) - Kneejerk is Freelancer's damage is honestly a bit -too- bad and counters do add up here.
Freelancer vs Peter (SF2) - Gross damage disparity.
Freelancer vs Lilly Pendragon (S3) - S3 criticals work their magic here.
Freelancer vs Shu (AtL2) - Same deal as Red Mage, but no real need to even bother with status blocking.
Freelancer vs Vitali (SN) - Sigh.
Freelancer vs Selphie Tilmitt (FF8) - Freelancer is even worse at punching past Selphie's limit than Red Mage.
Freelancer vs Sten Legasy (BoF2) - Resource disparities work their magic once again. If BoF2 crits were ITD, though...
Freelancer vs Aeris Gainsborough (FF7) - This fight NEVER ENDS.
Freelancer vs Lissa (FE13) - Looks like the Red Mage conundrum at a glance, doesn't it? The caveat, though, is that War Cleric leads to a stalemate while Sage might -win- because Lissa could theoretically land a Thoron crit and claim a victory at a bad time for Freelancer. Average of assumptions, at worst, favors her.

Mareg (G2) vs Frog (CT) - G2 sluggers vs. healing is rarely a pretty sight.
Mareg vs Meru (LoD) - Without starting SP, Dragon Roar just scrapes that OHKO on Meru (she's sub-0.60x pdur).
Mareg vs Chloe Hartzog (MK2) - I -suppose- she actually manages to 2HKO first, but Dhyer can definitely correct me on that.
Mareg vs Oscar (FE9) - I think? I'm assuming Oscar's roughly average at damage.
Mareg vs Peter (SF2) - 2HKOs, goes first, might not even get 3HKOed back.
Mareg vs Lilly Pendragon (S3) - I s'pose. Lilly's a pretty good Middle slugger.
Mareg vs Shu (AtL2) - Shu's very physically tanky indeed. Time Bomb matters once again.
Mareg vs Vitali (SN) - Vitali honestly needed better resources to run Mareg out - I'm fairly sure he can outheal him pretty quickly even being entirely neutral against Vitali's matches.
Mareg vs Selphie Tilmitt (FF8) - Has chipping.
Mareg vs Sten Legasy (BoF2) - Mareg's damage is slightly underwhelming - he can't 2HKO Sten. Sten, however, 3HKOs back just fine.
Mareg vs Aeris Gainsborough (FF7) - G2 and chipping, I suppose. He's got enough damage for long enough to overwhelm Aeris' limit healing.
Mareg vs Lissa (FE13) - 2HKOs Sage Lissa while avoiding counters, powers through Renewal against War Cleric Lissa. Welp.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2014, 07:52:06 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
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Pyro

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Re: Proving Grounds Light 1-Bravely Default, go!
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2014, 02:42:08 AM »
Red Mage (Bravely Default) vs Frog (CT)
Red Mage vs Meru (LoD): I suppose? This takes forever.
Red Mage vs Chloe (MK2): Reflect.
Red Mage vs Oscar (FE9): Posion and Sleep.
Red Mage vs Peter (SF2): 2HKOs. Gets the chance to. I think. Sleep may do it's job here...
Red Mage vs Lilly (S3): Block sleep overcome the healing.
Red Mage vs Shu (AtL2): NEgate the status and do status.
Red Mage vs Vitali (SN)
Red Mage vs Selphie (FF8): Sleep and POISON.
Red Mage vs Sten (BoF2): Resource difference?
Red Mage vs Aeris (FF7): Stop?

Freelancer (Bravely Default) vs Frog (CT): Overcomes the healing at low HP.
Freelancer vs Meru (LoD): Speed helps overcome the healing? That burst of damage helps.
Freelancer vs Chloe (MK2): Right kind of damage.
Freelancer vs Oscar (FE9): Crits and counters.
Freelancer vs Peter (SF2): Too much.
Freelancer vs Lilly (S3): Wrong kind of damage.
Freelancer vs Shu (AtL2) : Status.
Freelancer vs Vitali (SN)
Freelancer vs Selphie (FF8): Limit.
Freelancer vs Sten (BoF2): Overwhelms the healing?
Freelancer vs Aeris (FF7): Seal Evil?

superaielman

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Re: Proving Grounds Light 1-Bravely Default, go!
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2014, 03:37:13 PM »
Red Mage (Bravely Default) vs Frog (CT)- I don't see reflect blocking Slurp, which means it's a resource war. Knejeerking that Frog Splash puts on too much pressure though.
Red Mage vs Chloe (MK2)- Chloe stomps RM into a fine paste without reflect. With it, eh yeah. I buy it working on her skills.
Red Mage vs Oscar (FE9)- Think so. Sol's just not reliable enough against a def buffed Red Mage.
Red Mage vs Peter (SF2)- Check please. RM would have a shot if he learned blind, but that isn't given by black magic. Huh.
Red Mage vs Lilly (S3)- The offense, it burns.
Red Mage vs Shu (AtL2)- Time Bomb spam!
Red Mage vs Vitali (SN)- Vitali gets a large boost to his damage and durability against mages.
Red Mage vs Selphie (FF8)= Dread doesn't get specials in game IIRC, so goodbye RM.
Red Mage vs Sten (BoF2)- Reflect and healing both make Sten a sad monkey.
Red Mage vs Aeris (FF7)- Think his MP holds out long enough to slowly wittle through Aeris HP.


Freelancer (Bravely Default) vs Frog (CT)- Losing to *treat* spam, Frog? A new low.
Freelancer vs Meru (LoD)- I'll bite on Meru status mattering here (Good lord Freelancer, that offense)
Freelancer vs Chloe (MK2)- Chloe burns through Freelancer's puny healing easily enough.
Freelancer vs Oscar (FE9)- He may well have to run Oscar out of weapon charges, but I don't see a reason he can't pull that off.
Freelancer vs Peter (SF2)- Peter goes first. Endure's def buffing might be able to handle things, but freelancer is under immense pressure the entire fight.
Freelancer vs Lilly (S3)- Sword of Magic+crits should bust through the healing game eventually.
Freelancer vs Shu (AtL2)- Shu offense is bad.
Freelancer vs Vitali (SN)- Damn it Vitali.
Freelancer vs Selphie (FF8)- Hits The End after a trillion turns.
Freelancer vs Sten (BoF2)- Think so. Sten's got very limited offense.
Freelancer vs Aeris (FF7)- I don't scale limits and this fight is a good example of why I don't. Aeris can't ever get back to full HP from healing wind normally without Fury and she can't break through the healing.

Mareg (G2) vs Frog (CT)- Runs Mareg out of SP, surely.
Mareg vs Meru (LoD)- Mareg can scare up some scrubby ice resistance which is really bad for Meru. He's also got a fire physical to force a heal lock in dragoon form. Think it's enough.
Mareg vs Chloe (MK2)- Chloe's way more damaging and quicker to boot.
Mareg vs Oscar (FE9)- Think going first is enough.
Mareg vs Peter (SF2)- Peter eats vanilla fighters like this for breakfast
Mareg vs Lilly (S3)- Not 2HKOed.
Mareg vs Shu (AtL2)- Time Bomb spam. Shu is really tanky, he can take a few Mareg turns of offense.
Mareg vs Vitali (SN)-Vitali does not like fighters.
Mareg vs Selphie (FF8)- Can avoid a limit easily enough.
Mareg vs Sten (BoF2)-Sten's best is magic, that ensures he gets the 3HKO.
Mareg vs Aeris (FF7)- Has offense and enough SP to deal with Aeris healing once.
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
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<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

SnowFire

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Re: Proving Grounds Light 1-Bravely Default, go!
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2014, 10:55:06 PM »
Red Mage (Bravely Default) vs Frog (CT)
Can Reflect be safely recast, or is attempting to re-apply Reflect just get Reflect Reflected back?  RM is faster but Frog is from an ATB system so will float in the order a bit.  Also Red Mage has to play it *real safe* for the final phase of Frog's HP so that he doesn't get squashed, even 4x Red Mage attacks is just awful on damage.  EDIT: Sure, I'll buy 2x Protect > Frog Squash hype.  SECOND EDIT: Oh wait Hero Medal physicals hype lolz.
Red Mage vs Meru (LoD) - While Meru's damage is no great shakes, it's enough to pressure RM to heal a lot, and she's getting doubles.  I suppose Protect does help here...  but Meru can threaten to go magic and bust it up, so RM is still on his back foot.  Tricky, but leaning this way.
Red Mage vs Oscar (FE9) - POIZN.  I don't see Killer Lances in the FE9 topic so I guess that's out anyway.
Red Mage vs Lilly (S3) Yellow Scarf'd.
Red Mage vs Selphie (FF8)
Red Mage vs Aeris (FF7) - Aeris gets off one Pulse of Life, sure, but she can't possibly get a 2nd, so.
Red Mage vs Lissa (FE13)

Freelancer (Bravely Default) vs Frog (CT) - Freelancer is slower, so his death turn of 4x Attack -> 4x Attack gets him Frog Squashed twice and dead.  If he waits so that 1 4x Attack chain would do it, Frog Squash overwhelms Treat...  although mixing in Defaults might run Frog out of MP?  Eh, screw it, this is the kind of match of extreme Default spam that makes me inclined to slightly nerf BD defense.  (If the BD character has an insanely Default heavy strategy, fine, it'll still work but the BD character takes ~+15% damage from everything.)  EDIT: Only 4 shots of Frog Squash?  Bah, that isn't enough to actually kill through after all.
Freelancer vs Meru (LoD)
Freelancer vs Oscar (FE9) Very, very, very slowly runs Oscar out of weapons.  If Oscar replies by doing nothing to the Default spam, Freelancer goes on offense with attack -> Treat x3 to make up for the counter.  EDIT: Yeah I think Freelancer tinks to me, yet it somehow doesn't matter thanks to special damage & buffs.  Impressive.
Freelancer vs Lilly (S3) - Criticals.
Freelancer vs Selphie (FF8)
Freelancer vs Aeris (FF7) - Aeris is less hosed than Spiritmaster at least!
Freelancer vs Lissa (FE13) Zap.

Mareg (G2) vs Frog (CT)
Mareg vs Meru (LoD)
Mareg vs Oscar (FE9)
Mareg vs Lilly (S3)
Mareg vs Selphie (FF8)
Mareg vs Aeris (FF7)
Mareg vs Lissa (FE13)

See others for Mareg.

Red Mage: 2-5
Freelancer: 3-4
Mareg: 4-3
« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 04:32:59 AM by SnowFire »

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Proving Grounds Light 1-Bravely Default, go!
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2014, 12:03:15 AM »
In-game, you know when Reflect runs out before the turn begins, so honestly shrug on ATB shenanigans. If RM fumbles a Reflect, there's always Dispel anyway, and Frog pressure is what it is (middling 2HKO physical damage at 1 HP? I'm impressed). It's also why I'm entirely unmoved by Frog attempting to Frog Squash Freelancer: post-Endure x2, that's a 6HKO and Frog gets four shots of it.
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Random Consonant

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Re: Proving Grounds Light 1-Bravely Default, go!
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2014, 12:14:07 AM »
Mareg (G2) vs Frog (CT) - Can heal, is otherwise not in danger of anything.
Mareg vs Meru (LoD) - Unlike here, where dear god that physical durability.  Even with starting SP, that is a fairly significant problem.
Mareg vs Chloe (MK2) - 2HKOs first.
Mareg vs Oscar (FE9) - Going first is probably enough.
Mareg vs Peter (SF2) - Superior slugger.
Mareg vs Lilly (S3) - Yep.
Mareg vs Shu (AtL2)- oh wow, Shu is nearly 2x PCHP against physicals, that's gonna go over well.
Mareg vs Vitali (SN) - Vitali kind of has issues.
Mareg vs Selphie (FF8) - Can chip
Mareg vs Sten (BoF2) - Sure.
Mareg vs Aeris (FF7) - I guess.
Mareg vs Lissa (FE13) - lissa pls

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Proving Grounds Light 1-Bravely Default, go!
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2014, 03:35:29 PM »
Votes later, but for now I'm going to speak out strongly against Reflect working on Chloe's stuff. BD reflect misses a lot of things, in particular the unique signature magic attacks of a few bosses, and summons. What does Chloe use? Unique signature moves... which are also summons.

Reflect would pretty much only cover common skills in MK2 as far as I'm concerned.

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DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Proving Grounds Light 1-Bravely Default, go!
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2014, 10:44:42 AM »
Red Mage (Bravely Default) vs Frog (CT) - Frog immunes -every single relevant status- Black Mage has. So, how is he supposed to deal with him? Well, cast Reflect on Frog, sloooooooooowly whittle him down and alternate Reflect recasts until Frog finally dies. Frog may start threatening Red Mage at low HP, but the match is honestly long enough for RM to actually build up incidental BP from his passives. When that point comes up, he probably can spare an extra turn or two to make this work.
Red Mage vs Meru (LoD) - Meru certainly has the MDef to tank a casting of Sleep and she can choose to immune poison. Problem is she has so much less in the way of resources and Red Mage could conceivably buff his way into avoiding a heal lock. Will think about this.
Red Mage vs Chloe Hartzog (MK2) - Well, immune Silence and Sleep (taking more or less undisclosed stat hits) and now Red Mage needs aeons to kill Chloe. If you see Reflect affecting Chloe's offense, though, Red Mage pretty much has this unless you allow the ID weapons (I'm not sure I do for either case. NEB reminding me of what Reflect misses in-game, though, doesn't help its case). Ignoring all this, however, I'm thinking one Shell may be able to avoid a heal-lock with Summon Demon Lord, and heal-locking with Poizn Demon Lord just doesn't work out for Chloe even with Red Mage's crappy healing. Heck, he can just twink for MDef here with a Holy Miter and improve his healing, Chloe has no physical damage to speak of. Think the average of assumptions ultimately favors him, though he can't really go on the offensive with Poison castings until he runs Chloe out of gas for Poizn Demon Lord.
Red Mage vs Oscar (FE9) - Probably gets the game going early enough.
Red Mage vs Peter (SF2) - No such luck here, though. Peter's 2HKO is way too good for Red Mage to heal through and he might even go first.
Red Mage vs Lilly Pendragon (S3) - Immune Sleep, Sword of Magic, go to town.
Red Mage vs Shu (AtL2) - Shu can afford to block both Sleep and Silence and actually has enough time to land TIME BOMB SPAM. Holy crap.
Red Mage vs Vitali (SN) - There's a rather striking resource disparity here. This may take forever, but Red Mage eventually gets through.
Red Mage vs Selphie Tilmitt (FF8) - Poizn actually isn't such a great idea here, it raises Selphie's crisis levels and makes it easier for her to access her healing (or just reel for a match winner). Red Mage doesn't have a lot of problems getting his game started, but finishing it up is another matter entirely. You could say Dread shuts down limits, though... which would turn this match around. Dear god.
Red Mage vs Sten Legasy (BoF2) - Resource disparity and Silence probably seal this fight.
Red Mage vs Aeris Gainsborough (FF7) - The Poison blocker SHOULD be storebought by the time Aeris leaves, no? If that's the case, I'm not sure how Red Mage's -ever- supposed to chip through Aeris' L3. Same caveat as Selphie applies here.
Red Mage vs Lissa (FE13) - War Cleric Lissa wins this pretty flat (Red Mage doesn't really break past Renewal even with Poison + doubling), Sage Lissa loses about as definitely (lulz silence). Abstaining for now, since I don't know which one I see as her DL class.

Freelancer (Bravely Default) vs Frog (CT) - Building up Defaults and keeping up with Endure should stave off Frog Drop threats, which Frog can't really keep up for long (20 MP a pop? Eeeeew). Frog's offense is otherwise way too anemic.
Freelancer vs Meru (LoD) - Stun+paralysis - Freelancer can't really deal with both.
Freelancer vs Chloe Hartzog (MK2) - uuuuuuuuuh. I dunno, this is a kneejerk based on Freelancer's healing being pretty anemic. Endure may prove me wrong, though.
Freelancer vs Oscar (FE9) - Kneejerk is Freelancer's damage is honestly a bit -too- bad and counters do add up here.
Freelancer vs Peter (SF2) - Gross damage disparity.
Freelancer vs Lilly Pendragon (S3) - S3 criticals work their magic here.
Freelancer vs Shu (AtL2) - Same deal as Red Mage, but no real need to even bother with status blocking.
Freelancer vs Vitali (SN) - Sigh.
Freelancer vs Selphie Tilmitt (FF8) - Freelancer is even worse at punching past Selphie's limit than Red Mage.
Freelancer vs Sten Legasy (BoF2) - Resource disparities work their magic once again. If BoF2 crits were ITD, though...
Freelancer vs Aeris Gainsborough (FF7) - This fight NEVER ENDS.
Freelancer vs Lissa (FE13) - Looks like the Red Mage conundrum at a glance, doesn't it? The caveat, though, is that War Cleric leads to a stalemate while Sage might -win- because Lissa could theoretically land a Thoron crit and claim a victory at a bad time for Freelancer. Average of assumptions, at worst, favors her.

Mareg (G2) vs Frog (CT) - G2 sluggers vs. healing is rarely a pretty sight.
Mareg vs Meru (LoD) - Without starting SP, Dragon Roar just scrapes that OHKO on Meru (she's sub-0.60x pdur).
Mareg vs Chloe Hartzog (MK2) - I -suppose- she actually manages to 2HKO first, but Dhyer can definitely correct me on that.
Mareg vs Oscar (FE9) - I think? I'm assuming Oscar's roughly average at damage.
Mareg vs Peter (SF2) - 2HKOs, goes first, might not even get 3HKOed back.
Mareg vs Lilly Pendragon (S3) - I s'pose. Lilly's a pretty good Middle slugger.
Mareg vs Shu (AtL2) - Shu's very physically tanky indeed. Time Bomb matters once again.
Mareg vs Vitali (SN) - Vitali honestly needed better resources to run Mareg out - I'm fairly sure he can outheal him pretty quickly even being entirely neutral against Vitali's matches.
Mareg vs Selphie Tilmitt (FF8) - Has chipping.
Mareg vs Sten Legasy (BoF2) - Mareg's damage is slightly underwhelming - he can't 2HKO Sten. Sten, however, 3HKOs back just fine.
Mareg vs Aeris Gainsborough (FF7) - G2 and chipping, I suppose. He's got enough damage for long enough to overwhelm Aeris' limit healing.
Mareg vs Lissa (FE13) - 2HKOs Sage Lissa while avoiding counters, powers through Renewal against War Cleric Lissa. Welp.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Proving Grounds Light 1-Bravely Default, go!
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2014, 11:44:16 PM »
Red Mage (Bravely Default) vs Frog (CT): It takes 2.2 Frog attacks (with Hero Medal) to prompt RM to heal, using one of 66 shots (more with certain passives, to be fair). It takes 7 Red Mage attacks to prompt Frog to heal, using one of 88 shots. This is a slaughter, and Frog's trump card of Frog Squash is far more dangerous than RM's trump card of a brave-blitz and the things that kick in at 20% HP. Slurp's not magic so Reflect is out, and Protect hype is a resource RM absolutely can not afford. If only Aspir actually worked on RM stats...
Red Mage vs Meru (LoD): Freezing Ring + Blue Sea Dragon on a double looks like a KO to me. To make matters worse RM will have to drop his speed to block stun... assuming you see stun as more akin to paralysis and not stop. If the latter, he's just fucked.
Red Mage vs Chloe (MK2): Depends entirely on BD MDef. RM needs to have 108% MDef after one Shell to win this. I suppose... there's a decent chance of that. Also, if Chloe tries to blitz, she'll probably trigger Revival. Other than that this is a resource war, and while RM lost one to Frog, he can handle non-healers juuust fine.
Red Mage vs Oscar (FE9): I assume Poison and Sleep do their thing here.
Red Mage vs Peter (SF2): And honestly I see little reason they don't work here, either? It's going to take more than fractionally above average threat range for me to see Peter beating out RM for initiative, which means RM can afford to miss one sleep.
Red Mage vs Lilly (S3): Immunes the relevant status, has too much damage for RM's healing game.
Red Mage vs Vitali (SN): Vitali can't heal (...) and his damage looks pretty putrid. Having advantage over mages helps, but not enough.
Red Mage vs Selphie (FF8): The difference between this match and Peter is that Selphie getting even one turn below a certain threshold (50%? I forget how much crisis poison adds) is fatal. RM may still take this but inclined to go with my initial kneejerk.
Red Mage vs Sten (BoF2): Sleep is out, but Sten's spammable damage isn't great and poison still works to speed things along.
Red Mage vs Aeris (FF7): Infinite Pulse of Life spam eventually, slowly, wins. I suppose she loses if you don't scale limits, but I do. Friendly reminder that Pulse of Life spam is absolutely possible in-game due to Fury (and even if you assigned Aeris a durability penalty due to no Sadness, she'd still roflstomp Red Mage).
Red Mage vs Lissa (FE13): WTF IS THIS. War Cleric Lissa >>> Red Mage >>> Sage Lissa and I'm not sure how I vote.

Freelancer (Bravely Default) vs Frog (CT): Frog Squash doesn't look particularly scary under maximum Endure to me, even scaling down high subtraction pdur stats a bit (since the traditional way of accounting for pdur credits "overkill" reduction of lower-atk enemies).
Freelancer vs Meru (LoD): Has magic damage. Lots of it.
Freelancer vs Chloe (MK2): Has magic damage. Lots of it.
Freelancer vs Oscar (FE9): Freelancer's strategy is stupid enough that I'd probably let Oscar show up with his FE10 form. FE9 though... uh... is reliant on some luck with crits I guess? No reason it can't happen though, especially since Freelancer will need to attack and trigger counters to win (otherwise Oscar never attacks past a few opening chips and wins a tiebreak).
Freelancer vs Peter (SF2): Too much damage.
Freelancer vs Lilly (S3): A bit less damage than Peter, but more def-piercing criticals.
Freelancer vs Vitali (SN): Much less damage.
Freelancer vs Selphie (FF8): Selphie gets off a multi-Meteor or something crazy like that.
Freelancer vs Sten (BoF2): Sten wants more than two shots of Missile. And no, BoF2 crits aren't ITD.
Freelancer vs Aeris (FF7): Endless fight. Aeris does more damage. As far as interpretations I don't take, I'm more likely to allow storebought damage magic (= Aeris win) than I am to ban all forms of limit scaling (= Aeris loses).
Freelancer vs Lissa (FE13): Sage Lissa's damage is enough to outpower Treat, while War Cleric leads to an infinite match... except Lissa runs out of weapons I suppose. So yeah, reverse of the situation of the previous match!

Mareg (G2) vs Frog (CT): Mareg vs. healers.
Mareg vs Meru (LoD): Mareg pulls like 90% with Beast-King Blast. Meru can 3-2 if Mareg spams that, though, but he can avoid that by mixing in a Beast-King Smash. Still, Meru can survive that if she heals AND is in dragoon... but she'll need to heal again on her next action anyway, then detransforms and the process repeats except Meru has lost more resources (than a G2 character. Shame). She could go for the 400 SP weapon, heal twice, then 4-3 but she can't use the summon, and Mareg's ice resistance means he should live.
Mareg vs Chloe (MK2): Everyone seems to think so, and I am too lazy to parse MK2's stat topic to figure out of they're wrong.
Mareg vs Oscar (FE9): Oscar is above average at damage. In fact, Mareg just misses the 3HKO even, while Oscar does pull his off.
Mareg vs Peter (SF2): Faster. Stronger.
Mareg vs Lilly (S3): There's a chance Mareg can 2HKO the only Lilly setup which 3HKOs him here, but... probably not.
Mareg vs Vitali (SN): Vitali is apparently neutral against axemen? But it looks like Mareg manages to 2HKO him. Vitali can, I suppose, heal on turn 2, then on turn 3 gets that healing tech and can try to run Mareg out of resources? But surely Mareg can stick to chipping with the faster Beast-Fang Cut to avoid that. Not 100% sure.
Mareg vs Selphie (FF8): Damage control.
Mareg vs Sten (BoF2): Yeah, don't think Sten is quite frail enough to be 2HKOed.
Mareg vs Aeris (FF7): Should be able to overwhelm, especially with Lion's Roar as an option.
Mareg vs Lissa (FE13): Yup.

Red Mage 5-5. Borderline seems appropriate.
Mareg 5-6. Same here.
Freelancer 3-7. Light but a weird/spoilery one.

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SnowFire

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Re: Proving Grounds Light 1-Bravely Default, go!
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2014, 04:30:44 AM »
Dark Holy Elf: Good point about Frog physicals running Red Mage out of MP.  On Freelancer vs. Meru, dunno if Meru magic matters THAT much since Endure buffs MDef too and Meru MP is limited, but the turnsplit is pretty brutal, so I expect Meru beatdown can save the day. 

That said...  re Oscar...  definitely don't buy the "Oscar does nothing and stalls" hype.  If he does that Freelancer goes to 3 BP then unloads Attack -> eat counter -> 3x Treat, then does it again later, slowly.  (I don't think an Oscar counter-critical OHKOs if Oscar even has a critical rate > 0% here.)  THAT SAID Oscar has above average defense, which if subtractive defense is taken literally nulls .05 PCHP off of every attack, which means Freelancer tinks and does no damage.  EXCEPT!  Freelancer switches to a sword and uses his L1 Special (I'd allow any L1 special, but the sword one doesn't involve Norende arguments at least) to do damage then, very very very very rarely (since he'll be blowing 5 Braves to get a single one off).  The match takes *eons* but Freelancer still wins it even when tinking with regular physicals.

Incidentally I don't care to do the math but that helps Red Mage's long-term damage output vs. Frog since the specials will buff his attack some.  That fight moves comparatively "fast" to Freelancer vs. Oscar so I expect the result would be more subtle, and as you pointed out the MP problems Red Mage faces are not subtle, so it's moot.  (At least it's an argument for uniqueness, since sword specials mattering in the DL is pretty much restricted to RM & Freelancer I think.  Funny they're both here.)

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Proving Grounds Light 1-Bravely Default, go!
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2014, 06:53:47 AM »
You're right about counters, my bad.

EDIT: I'm assuming BD MDef is fairly mediocre until someone proves otherwise. Certainly nowhere near as good as the Def buffing. I did use 150% MDef against a boss mage late in the game and it didn't even half damage (this being against a Skull Bash'd boss who therefore had mildly less damage than it "should" on NM).

And... actually I think Oscar wins anyway, Freelancer has been a bit overrated here. In order to maintain Endure at max, he'll have to use it every three turns (if he goes more, it vanishes and he needs to reuse it twice to get back to where he was). This means 20% healing 2 out of 3 turns is only 13.3% per round. Oscar does 45.5%, which is 12.7% to Pyro's listed Endure figure. That'd be enough to win if you respect the listed physical durability that much, but I do not, and there's a multitude of reasons not to. Add in an Oscar crit rate (should be 5-10% before crit forging, wouldn't ever respect this normally but Freelancer is special) and yeah I think he punches past anyway. (Moot for me of course.)
« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 06:56:51 AM by Dark Holy Elf »

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SnowFire

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Re: Proving Grounds Light 1-Bravely Default, go!
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2014, 10:39:02 PM »
On a slightly different FE-related note.

Quote
Red Mage vs Lissa (FE13): WTF IS THIS. War Cleric Lissa >>> Red Mage >>> Sage Lissa and I'm not sure how I vote.

Moot for me since I allow formchoice (less headaches, rewards versatility which is useful), but I'd be pretty shocked if Sage wasn't the best for Lissa.  Even if we ignore the fact that average-speed duelers are very common, Lissa wants every scrap of speed she can get (and Sage indeed isn't doubled by average, but War Cleric is), and War Cleric's game usually falls apart when Lissa gets doubled.  0.69 PDur -> .21 effective regen -> can you double consistently with .11 PCHP physical damage or less while surviving horrible axe thwacks.  Sage Lissa, while hardly a great slugger, does have 1-2 range counters and triple War Cleric's damage (just baaaaaaaaaarely a 3HKO), so she can actually kill lots of Light Suikoscrubs off counters.  Red Mage is pretty special in somehow failing to put down WC Lissa in a Brave Blitz of 16 attacks (!!!, Attack x4 off a double turn), so War Cleric is only worth a damn vs. the likes of Red Mage, Rena, and Mint - seems much less common than "vanilla slugger who doesn't like counters."