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Author Topic: Proving Grounds L/M 3: Yun: because someone has to inspire apathy in MK2.  (Read 1319 times)

superaielman

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Virion: 32-9
White Mage: 19-36
Mara: 13-42   

Gafgarion- He's appeared in PG a few times. Fits the Dark Knight theme plus is an intteresting fighter in spite of being tempy.
Yun- MK2 borderliner. Never really appeared in PG, curious as to how he does.
Meru- Always good for an argument. Lots of speed and a good skillset, but runs out of gas awfully quickly.

Gafgarion (FFT) vs Yukiko (Pers4)
Gafgarion vs Kazin (SF2)
Gafgarion vs October (CSTW)
Gafgarion vs Gadwin (G1)
Gafgarion vs Ashton (SO2)
Gafgarion vs Henry (FE13)
Gafgarion vs Tai Ho (Suikos)
Gafgarion vs Jane (ACF)
Gafgarion vs Baigan (FF4)
Gafgarion vs Garcia (FE8)
Gafgarion vs Funguy (CC)
Gafgarion vs Cinnamon (MMXCM)

Yun (MK2) vs Yukiko (Pers4)
Yun vs Kazin (SF2)
Yun vs October (CSTW)
Yun vs Gadwin (G1)
Yun vs Ashton (SO2)
Yun vs Henry (FE13)
Yun vs Tai Ho (Suikos)
Yun vs Jane (ACF)
Yun vs Baigan (FF4)
Yun vs Garcia (FE8)
Yun vs Funguy (CC)
Yun vs Cinnamon (MMXCM)

Meru (LoD) vs Yukiko (Pers4)
Meru vs Kazin (SF2)
Meru vs October (CSTW)
Meru vs Gadwin (G1)
Meru vs Ashton (SO2)
Meru vs Henry (FE13)
Meru vs Tai Ho (Suikos)
Meru vs Jane (ACF)
Meru vs Baigan (FF4)
Meru vs Garcia (FE8)
Meru vs Funguy (CC)
Meru vs Cinnamon (MMXCM)
« Last Edit: May 31, 2014, 09:05:34 PM by superaielman »
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
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<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

superaielman

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For my own reference- I think I take Gaf as a scaled up temp without equips.

Gafgarion (FFT) vs Yukiko (Pers4)- Gafgarion can open with Dark Sword and ignore Midori shirt evasion. Suspect that's enough.
Gafgarion vs Kazin (SF2)- Think so. Gaf's healing keeps him afloat for long enough here.
Gafgarion vs October (CSTW)- Uninclined to give Gaf access to ID blockers.
Gafgarion vs Gadwin (G1)- Outlasts.
Gafgarion vs Ashton (SO2)- Too much damage.
Gafgarion vs Tai Ho (Suikos)- Critical hit should tip it? Guh. Tai Ho's defense is pretty shaky though..
Gafgarion vs Baigan (FF4)
Gafgarion vs Garcia (FE8)- Doubled Night Sword is a thing.
Gafgarion vs Funguy (CC)- think so? Funguy's accuracy wasn't good, so Gaf's shield could force a miss or two.
Gafgarion vs Cinnamon (MMXCM)- Kneejerk? I definitely remember Cinnamon as a low damage healer.

Yun (MK2) vs Yukiko (Pers4)- Blocks fire. Yun is so, so, *SO* fucked in that case.
Yun vs Kazin (SF2)-2HKOs before Kazin can Desoul off.
Yun vs October (CSTW)- Yun can't block ID.
Yun vs Gadwin (G1)- Gadwin has an astounding lead in durability and isn't much worse otherwise.
Yun vs Ashton (SO2)- Better slugger. I strongly suspect Ashton's going to sweep all three fighters.
Yun vs Tai Ho (Suikos)- Surely.
Yun vs Baigan (FF4)- Baigan's more of a magical spoiler.
Yun vs Garcia (FE8)- Yun is ST laggy physicals. Garcia is going to eat him alive.
Yun vs Funguy (CC)
Yun vs Cinnamon (MMXCM)- Resists fire.

Meru (LoD) vs Yukiko (Pers4)- Yukiko is weak to ice, Meru's OHKOing here.
Meru vs Kazin (SF2)- Kazin probably just OHKOs here, on the other hand. E: I'll bite.
Meru vs October (CSTW)- ID.
Meru vs Gadwin (G1)- Gadwin's got a fair bit of fire damage. I think that tips a resource war.
Meru vs Ashton (SO2)- Also probably OHKOs, also probably doesn't need to do so to win.
Meru vs Tai Ho (Suikos)- Unsure.
Meru vs Baigan (FF4)- Should be able to take a signle spell.
Meru vs Garcia (FE8)- Counters eat Meru alive.
Meru vs Funguy (CC)- Dragoon defenses should keep her alive.
Meru vs Cinnamon (MMXCM)- Ice defense.

Gafgarion: 7-3. Felt like this field played to his strengths. No real tanks, lots of mages.
Yun: 4-6. Sucky but guts out a few wins.
Meru: 3-6. Her physical defense is apalling and she relies on a single shot of a commonly resisted element. She spoils mages okay (...That aren't fire, she ran into bad luck with that here) but light is fighter heavy. That build isn't cutting it without starting SP to bail her out.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2014, 08:51:57 PM by superaielman »
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...

Random Consonant

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Gafgarion (FFT) vs Yukiko (Pers4) - Yukiko sort of has issues with the draining even without considering the MP busting.
Gafgarion vs Kazin (SF2) - Probably.
Gafgarion vs October (CSTW) - e: ffs that useless set of guest immunities mattering
Gafgarion vs Gadwin (G1) - Draining.
Gafgarion vs Ashton (SO2) - Probably.
Gafgarion vs Henry (FE13) - Counters.
Gafgarion vs Tai Ho (Suikos)
Gafgarion vs Baigan (FF4)
Gafgarion vs Garcia (FE8)
Gafgarion vs Funguy (CC)

Yun (MK2) vs Yukiko (Pers4) - fire immunity vs fire immunity match ahoy.  Anyways Yun ain't winning this if you don't allow his ID weapon, that Curse/Seal weapon of him gets him outdamaged even with Yu's average-shattering bullshit factored in and even then he has to deal with three turns of Miori Shirt, and if he doesn't go for that she just heals.  And to be honest if I don't really consider FFX running around with sleepstrike weapons (that I didn't even remember existed), I probably shouldn't reward MK2 for getting the shittiest universal ID option ever (that I also wouldn't even remember existed if not for the stat topic).
Yun vs Kazin (SF2) - Yeah probably.
Yun vs October (CSTW) - ID.
Yun vs Gadwin (G1) - Better slugging.
Yun vs Ashton (SO2) - Better slugging, has fire resist somewhere.
Yun vs Henry (FE13) - Yun can immune dark and he doubles Henry so this sure isn't working out any better for him than it was for Tharja.
Yun vs Tai Ho (Suikos) - Probably.
Yun vs Baigan (FF4) - Yeah probably.
Yun vs Garcia (FE8) - Not sure if I see Blazing Cloth triggering melee counters, matters if I do.  Eh, going with the one that doesn't get fake emotes.
Yun vs Funguy (CC) - Probably.

Meru (LoD) vs Yukiko (Pers4) - Starting SP makes the difference here, I think.  Miori Shirt is definitely a problem but it's not a dodge three straight turns problem, and Yukiko is only 2HKOing Meru while she's untransformed.  That said with zero starting SP Meru just sorta dies.
Meru vs Kazin (SF2) - Don't think Kazin OHKOs Meru transformed.  Not sure he does untransformed either, LoD weakness is only 1.5x and Blaze 4 isn't that close even under an average I kind of consider lowballed.
Meru vs October (CSTW) - ID.
Meru vs Gadwin (G1) - e: or Gadwin could be a bit worse here than I thought
Meru vs Ashton (SO2) - Assuming some nonsense is in play.
Meru vs Henry (FE13) - Yeah transforming is just asking for Tomebreaker and pretty much every other option is out.
Meru vs Tai Ho (Suikos) - Hopefully.
Meru vs Baigan (FF4) - e: on the other hand she still should get three turns which should be enough
Meru vs Garcia (FE8) - Once again, starting SP to the resuce.  And dear god does she need it.
Meru vs Funguy (CC) - *Hopefully*
« Last Edit: June 08, 2014, 05:16:08 AM by Random Consonant »

Dhyerwolf

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I probably shouldn't reward MK2 for getting the shittiest universal ID option ever (that I also wouldn't even remember existed if not for the stat topic).

There is no universal ID weapon (or universal weapon) in MK 2. It's a separate (and varying) effect on different weapons.
...into the nightfall.

Random Consonant

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It's 8/10 and they all have crappy low-odds ID that you never care about and the one of the people who miss it is *Goto*, so it's close enough as far as I'm concerned, really.  Not like there's much reason I can think of to treat it differently from other near cast-wide things that I also wouldn't consider due to what they do on reflection, so I may as well not.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2014, 05:04:35 AM by Random Consonant »

074

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Gafgarion (FFT) vs Yukiko (Pers4) Night Sword is ITE.  Dark Sword is ITE, eats MP like nobody's business, and can be used on safe turns.  Yukiko hates life.
Gafgarion vs Kazin (SF2) This comes off as Yukiko trading healing for more power on first glance.  Nooot a winning trade here, I think.
Gafgarion vs Baigan (FF4) :baigan:
Gafgarion vs Garcia (FE8)  :garcia:
<+Nama-EmblemOfFire> ...Have the GhebFE guy and the ostian princess guy collaborate.
 <@Elecman> Seems reasonable.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Gaff Gafgarion (FFT) vs Yukiko Amagi (Pers4) - Yukiko can't really keep up with the draining. I -do- treat Gaff as a PC as well, but I likely scale him and his equip options to the last fight you can have him for. So yeah.
Gafgarion vs Kazin (SF2) - Faster, certainly, and shouldn't be 2HKOed after factoring in the draining. I'd be shocked if he couldn't -at least- 3HKO back.
Gaff Gafgarion vs October (CSTW) - EDIT: right, Guest immunities.
Gaff Gafgarion vs Gadwin (G1) - No.
Gaff Gafgarion vs Ashton Anchors (SO2) - Unlike Kazin, Ashton's actually kinda durable. If he happened to resist or null Void, this would be simply hilarious.
Gaff Gafgarion vs Henry (FE13) - Counters make Gaffy -very- unhappy (the draining's being outraced by the damage as is) and I honestly suspect Henry lands a Vengeance somewhere in the flurry. Gaffy also may miss the 3HKO, which means Henry lands three cracks in a most definitive manner.
Gaff Gafgarion vs Tai Ho (Suikos) - The Lights are going to crash and burn so bad.
Gaff Gafgarion vs Jane Maxwell (ACF) - lulz. What Can You do is utterly useless here since it can't let Jane even make real headway.
Gaff Gafgarion vs Baigan (FF4) - Baigan isn't -bad- (certainly feels more like a Middle than a Light), but he's not outslugging someone with similar damage and better overall stats.
Gaff Gafgarion vs Garcia (FE8) - :garcia:
Gaff Gafgarion vs Funguy (CC) - Cripes.
Gaff Gafgarion vs Cinnamon (MMXCM) - Really, no.

10-2. If you scale him as a temp, he's pretty solid. Damage not too special, but the stats are generally placed right and draining is a powerful ability. Doubt I let him use Dark Sword (it's nigh impossible to get him that much JP within two fights and he's purely a Guest), but he doesn't really need it.

Yun (MK2) vs Yukiko Amagi (Pers4) - Fire immunity. :lol:
Yun vs Kazin (SF2) - Fire resistance -alone- means Kazin uh kinda wins this fight in three rounds minimum on average. Yun 2HKOs and goes first, so even if he lets Kazin get a double due to recharge, he can manage just fine.
Yun vs October (CSTW) - Yun really wishes he didn't miss the ID-immunity armor.
Yun vs Gadwin (G1) - No.
Yun vs Ashton Anchors (SO2) - No.
Yun vs Henry (FE13) - Dark immunity and fire resistance? This bodes ill for Henry.
Yun vs Tai Ho (Suikos) - Nope.
Yun vs Jane Maxwell (ACF) - While this doesn't feel intuitive (Yun 2HKOs at base, Jane's own damage is appalling, Yun also has non-ST damage to wall WCYD?), dat evade's pretty cruel against Yun's resources. Mystic Potion Berry every couple turns also ensures she can keep it up longer than Yun could. I'm not sure trying to troll for a Last Stand blitz is such a great idea either, with the slowly looming threat of an ID crit. Jane builds up at least 15 FP a turn to boot, so she'll have a lot of Potion Berry shots to handle Yun. Weird.
Yun vs Baigan (FF4) - Just outslugs.
Yun vs Garcia (FE8) - Oh dear.
Yun vs Funguy (CC) - Um.
Yun vs Cinnamon (MMXCM) - Wow, this is sad. Yun's resource failures and Cinnamon's fire resistance completely trounce him here.

5-6. Feels representative. He's generally okay and kinda damaging, and MK2 equips are always very useful, but he runs into issues once he has to deal with elemental resistance, healing and/or evade.

Meru (LoD) vs Yukiko Amagi (Pers4) - 1.5x weakness? Yeah, Yukiko doesn't 2HKO that.
Meru vs Kazin (SF2) - EDIT: 1.5x? Welp. Changing my vote on Yukiko as well.
Meru vs October (CSTW) - Deathity death death.
Meru vs Gadwin (G1) - uh no
Meru vs Ashton Anchors (SO2) - oh god, he probably just OHKOs.
Meru vs Henry (FE13) - Bolganone 2HKOs Meru pretty flat and Meru's not one-rounding much of anything even doubling, let alone Henry.
Meru vs Tai Ho (Suikos) - Hopefully.
Meru vs Jane Maxwell (ACF) - Hopefully, once again. Like with Yukiko, Meru has -problems- landing a hit on Jane, but, unlike Yukiko, Jane's own pressure sucks. Meru should be able to live long enough to get into Dragoon Form, at which point she just runs over Jane.
Meru vs Baigan (FF4) - EDIT: Baigan doesn't 2HKO! Neeeeeeeeeeeeevermind.
Meru vs Garcia (FE8) - Counters: Meru's worst enemy.
Meru vs Funguy (CC) - I think Meru has more leeway here than against Baigan.
Meru vs Cinnamon (MMXCM) - No. Meru has issues pressuring Cinnamon against the elemental resistance.

5-6. Honestly, still thinking she's not -entirely- unreasonable in Light. So many weird weaknesses and that -appalling- pdur. She's usually golden if she can get three turns and doesn't have to face healers, but she can have a lot of problems getting there.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2014, 03:51:57 AM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....

Dark Holy Elf

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Gafgarion's an odd one. He's theoretically below average at endgame, but is fast during his entire duration as both a temp and a boss. I give him that extra speed credit, but I don't let him use equips past his leaving time. Does get the standard FFT guest/boss immunities.

Gafgarion vs Kazin (SF2): Gaff heals just under a third of his HP against Kazin's low Def, and 3HKOs him. Does Kazin 2HKO that? Nope.
Gafgarion vs October (CSTW): Pretty much the same as above. Gaff's immune to instant death in-game.
Gafgarion vs Gadwin (G1): Not much respect for either's damage, so draining goes a long way towards tilting this.
Gafgarion vs Ashton (SO2): Apparently he has the damage for this.
Gafgarion vs Henry (FE13): Gaff doubles and... only has a 5HKO. Meanwhile Henry 2HKOs. Draining slows this some but with counters offsetting the doubles and the def reducing the healing this isn't a winning proposition for Gaf. No Aegis Shield hype naturally.
Gafgarion vs Tai Ho (Suikos): Tai Ho has good stats and low offence. Not how you want to beat Gafgarion.
Gafgarion vs Jane (ACF): Kneejerk respect for Jane is very low. I guess she has mystic but that doesn't help much here I'd think.
Gafgarion vs Baigan (FF4): Most of Baigan's worth comes from magic spoiling.
Gafgarion vs Garcia (FE8): Kinda like Henry, Garcia is doubled but has counters which largely offset. Gaff has a 5HKO again, so can Garcia kill before then with Hand Axe x3, Silver Axe? Seeing as the Hand Axes barely offset the healing... no, probably not. That's before any evade/WTA concerns.
Gafgarion vs Funguy (CC): Sure whatever.
Gafgarion vs Cinnamon (MMXCM): Below average damage without offensive tricks doesn't work against Gafgarion.

Yun vs Kazin (SF2): Faster and 2HKOs.
Yun vs October (CSTW): Death.
Yun vs Gadwin (G1): Yun is faster, but kills in 5 turns. Gadwin shouldn't have any problem 4HKOing though.
Yun vs Ashton (SO2): 2HKOs, isn't 2HKOed.
Yun vs Henry (FE13): Yun has a 4HKO, and either isn't doubling or receiving counters. Does go first. Does Henry kill in three hits? He would easily, but Yun nulls dark. ... which also drops him to below average speed, so the question is really does Henry kill in four hits? ... oh wait he kills in three anyway. That Thoron is pretty mean.
Yun vs Tai Ho (Suikos): Close. Tai Ho just misses a 3HKO, though, while Yun should manage his.
Yun vs Jane (ACF): Burp, copying Snow. Yun resources are a thing.
Yun vs Baigan (FF4)
Yun vs Garcia (FE8): Again similar to Henry: Garcia kills in three turns, while Yun needs four, and anything which doubles triggers counters.
Yun vs Funguy (CC): Whatever.
Yun vs Cinnamon (MMXCM): Fire resistance.

Meru vs Kazin (SF2): Kazin misses the 2HKO, see Random. Blaze 4 is only 60% to average, LoD weakness is only 1.5, Meru is near average mdur. Anyway she 2HKOs first very easily.
Meru vs October (CSTW): Nope.
Meru vs Gadwin (G1): DKS does 83% to Meru, physicals do 63% (25% to dragoon). Meru juuust misses a 3-2 (127% vs. 85% speed). So... hmm. She attacks, gets hit by DKS, dragoons and heals, takes a hit, uses two attack spells, takes a hit, heals and detransforms, takes a hit, attacks then transforms and heals, takes a hit, uses an attack spells, takes a hit, uses an attack spell and then a dragoon attack (she is now dead). This does... 167% to average, Gadwin doesn't have that much HP.
Meru vs Ashton (SO2): OHKOs.
Meru vs Henry (FE13): Henry 2HKOs with Waste and counters.
Meru vs Tai Ho (Suikos): Tai Ho is pretty solidly killed by Freezing Ring + BSD, and doesn't 2HKO through dragoon.
Meru vs Jane (ACF): I think?
Meru vs Baigan (FF4): See Tai Ho? Again Baigan misses the 2HKO with the second being against dragoon, and he also dies to Freezing Ring + BSD. Reflect doesn't catch summons in FF4, so that's out. And Snow: if -I- don't see Baigan as durable enough for this, no way you should. dat Tellah damage.
Meru vs Garcia (FE8): Garcia only counters with a Hand Axe to me, but it's enough.
Meru vs Funguy (CC): Funguy manages about 93% with a full combo out of the gate! Unfortunately he needs a OHKO.
Meru vs Cinnamon (MMXCM): Cinnamon can probably run Meru out of resources. Neither is really great at killing the other. I suppose Meru could go for a paralysis weapon, except she can't stay untransformed for long since Hyper Cinnamon 2HKOs untransformed Meru.

Gafgarion 9-2. Does anyone really think he's Light?
Meru 6-5. Weird dueller, hates fighters and counters. Still manages to be somewhat underrated? Those who don't OHKO her or counter her give her a mean game to work with, if one of limited resources and ice reliance.
Yun 4-7. Pretty mediocre. The slugging isn't awful: in particular he looks really good against the somewhat fragile, so he can do serious damage in Light. But there are a lot of ways to slow him down.

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Maybe.

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Meru vs Baigan (FF4): See Tai Ho? Again Baigan misses the 2HKO with the second being against dragoon, and he also dies to Freezing Ring + BSD. Reflect doesn't catch summons in FF4, so that's out. And Snow: if -I- don't see Baigan as durable enough for this, no way you should. dat Tellah damage.

Doesn't he deal around 40% to average with his physicals, though? Which... huh, yeah, misses a 2HKO through Dragoon, I kept assuming it -didn't-. Nevermind, changing my vote. (You're right about me not seeing Baigan getting to live through Freezing Ring and BSD: I just didn't think Meru COULD get to use both in this fight, but Dragoon form is kinda badass)
« Last Edit: June 08, 2014, 03:54:57 AM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> HEY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> LAGGY
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
[01:08] <Laggy> YA!!!!!!!!!1111111111
[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
[01:08] <Chulianne> No wonder you're small.
[01:08] <TranceHime> cocks
[01:08] <Laggy> .....