Border crisis: What should the US do?

[superaielman]

For those that haven't been paying attention to the news, there's been a mass surge in immigration by children in the past year to the US from central american countries, due to outrageously high levels of violence in those countries and rumors spread by human traffickers. It's lead to gridlock in congress and promises from Obama to pass executive actions to address the situation. What should the US government do?

[superaielman]

Immigration reform's a complex issue. Here is what I'd like to see.

1.  Mass increase of available visas for skilled workers in highly sought after fields. This isn't exactly controversial so I won't spend much time on it, but getting highly educated and skilled workers into the US is a good thing.

2.  Border needs to be better secured. I agree with Republicans on this one. I don't know how viable (if at all) building a physical fence is, but the security situation on the border is appalling and this needs to be addressed. I have plenty of sympathy for those trying to make the crossing, but letting human traffickers have run over the border is not the solution either. Yes, that includes turning away people crossing the border illegally. This only works in conjunction with 4.

3. Simpler access to green cards for those already in the country. If you can pass the test/are working/your english is good enough, I don't see a problem with them staying in the country.

4. Increase the number of visas/etc for those who wish to gain access to the country. Specifically, those who are fleeing hardships. This is easier than it sounds, as it would require a pretty sizable investment of money and would definitely encourage more immigration. I don't have a problem with this though. The waitlist is pretty unacceptably long as is, this needs to be fixed. Increase legal immigration and you help to solve some of the illegal immigration problem.

5. Accept that the US isn't going to be willing or able to meet the demand for all those who want to enter the country from central american countries. 

[superaielman]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/15/politics/immigration-not-in-my-backyard/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 The article headline sums up some of the issues here, but I don't blame county officials for being annoyed at having refugees dumped on them without even a notice from the federal government. That doesn't make the county governments response any nicer, granted.

[Captain K.]

I'm in favor of legal immigration.  I have no problem with people coming here to live and improve their lives, but I want them to do it in plain sight, with easier-to-obtain citizenship - rather than sneaking across.

Having said that, it's not an easy thing to encourage due to the information they have available/conditions they're currently living in.

I don't really see a wall stopping the problem.  Remember the giant tunnel going into California?  A few greased palms and the wall will easily be circumvented.  Not to mention it'll be a colossal expenditure in the first place.

There really isn't a "good" answer to immigration.  It's kind of a no-win situation.

[superaielman]

Strongly restrictions on legal immigration also gives more fodder to coyotes and the like which is a bitch of a problelm in of itself. There's always going to be that market for immigration.

[Dhyerwolf]

Immigration reform's a complex issue. Here is what I'd like to see.

1.  Mass increase of available visas for skilled workers in highly sought after fields. This isn't exactly controversial so I won't spend much time on it, but getting highly educated and skilled workers into the US is a good thing.

2.  Border needs to be better secured. I agree with Republicans on this one. I don't know how viable (if at all) building a physical fence is, but the security situation on the border is appalling and this needs to be addressed. I have plenty of sympathy for those trying to make the crossing, but letting human traffickers have run over the border is not the solution either. Yes, that includes turning away people crossing the border illegally. This only works in conjunction with 4.

3. Simpler access to green cards for those already in the country. If you can pass the test/are working/your english is good enough, I don't see a problem with them staying in the country.

4. Increase the number of visas/etc for those who wish to gain access to the country. Specifically, those who are fleeing hardships. This is easier than it sounds, as it would require a pretty sizable investment of money and would definitely encourage more immigration. I don't have a problem with this though. The waitlist is pretty unacceptably long as is, this needs to be fixed. Increase legal immigration and you help to solve some of the illegal immigration problem.

5. Accept that the US isn't going to be willing or able to meet the demand for all those who want to enter the country from central american countries.

Likely a very big no on number 1 for me, as this is already a big tool that companies use to undercut pay for American workers. Claim they don't have the skills, hire in workers from China/India (who didn't need to incur the large education expenses and therefore are willing to work for less without student loans to repay). (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/foreign-worker-visa-backlash. Note the article is from AP, but I didn't feel like tracking down the AP link).

[metroid composite]

Immigration reform's a complex issue. Here is what I'd like to see.

1.  Mass increase of available visas for skilled workers in highly sought after fields. This isn't exactly controversial so I won't spend much time on it, but getting highly educated and skilled workers into the US is a good thing.

Likely a very big no on number 1 for me, as this is already a big tool that companies use to undercut pay for American workers. Claim they don't have the skills, hire in workers from China/India (who didn't need to incur the large education expenses and therefore are willing to work for less without student loans to repay). (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/foreign-worker-visa-backlash. Note the article is from AP, but I didn't feel like tracking down the AP link).

Are you serious?

I've been working in the US for 9+ years, after getting my masters degree, I'm...I don't want to say top of my field, but I'm pretty high up.  In spite of this...

I don't have a green card yet.

I live in constant fear of visa issues, going from temporary visa to temporary visa.

At several points (including earlier this year) I could have been denied a visa at the sole disgression of a border guard.  (In fact, I almost got denied once early on, and was only saved when I kept asking and the border guard who didn't like me got a second opinion).

And I'm one of the lucky ones who got in in 2005 when things were reasonable.  When I talk to HR reps today of "I have a friend graduating but they're not American" their response is generally "no chance in hell; visas are way too hard to get; we're not going to invest that on a new graduate".  If I were graduating today instead of in 2004, I don't think I'd even be considered by American companies.  Hell, if I were to lose or quit from my current job, I might not be able to get another job in the US for several months (there's a quota on visas, and it only refreshes once per year I believe...).

And don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those googly eyed foreigners who thinks life in America is great.  I'd rather live in Vancouver than any American city.  I'd rather live in a country with real health care.  But the top tier companies in my field happen to be located in the US, and I want to work for top tier companies.  If I were picking a country just because I felt like living there, I'd pick Canada (...or maybe Korea >_>).

And speaking of top tier vs mid tier companies--the companies that really do use immigration heavily are the top tier companies.  Comparing companies I've worked for...a place like Shaba Games used a lot of local talent who grew up in the same city, many of whom went to high school together.  It used some international talent too, but mostly local.  A place like Naughty Dog was heavily international.  The head of the company was from France, the leads were from Sweeden, Canada, and the US.  We wanted to recruit more from China, UK, etc.  We were looking for the top talent in the world, and were hitting brick walls with American immigration.  And I'm not talking green cards here; I'm talking like can't even get temporary work visas.  (And before you spin me a weeping tale about new American graduates, Naughty Dog doesn't hire people fresh out of college near as I can tell).


And...honestly, I don't see much of an issue with American student loans.  The Americans I knew were in debt, but they were willing to work for the same salary, and their disposable income just went towards paying off student loans.  Actually, Americans are in-practice cheaper than foreign workers, because you need to pay an immigration lawyer to get foreign workers in, and that costs usually $10,000 per year.  So...yeah, it's something you do if you want top talent, not something you do to be cheap.  Americans fresh out of college are the people you exploit if you want cheap computer programmers and are based in the US--most of them will be glad just to have a job.  Uness you want to be really cheap, and then you just outsource it.

[Dhyerwolf]

Our company got an H1-B Visa for someone by stating there were no suitable American applicants. This was...a very boldfaced lie considering because the position was specialized, but not to some level where you couldn't find an American applicant. It went through pretty easily (not quickly mind you, but easily), and this is for a company with no experience in that and with 10 employees total. So, yeah, definitely serious (and basically all the responses that I saw on both extremely liberal TPM and slightly conversative CNBC where I saw where in the same general area of view).

Note that I'm not talking about green card or anything (specifically not that). But there are definitely companies that operate on the premise of bringing in foreign workers on lower wages by stating that there are not acceptable American workers (or as the article notes, straight up staffing firms working on this premise). I would be very interested to read research articles noting otherwise, but as I said above, I saw pretty uniform reactions on both liberal and slightly conservative websites (if it was trumped up, it very much strikes as something that commenters on the liberal website would have jumped on. The uniformity of the reaction was probably the most telling part. CNBC's commenters tend to veer off in a dingbat direction frequently. That they so were consistent overall with TPM was really telling).

Now of course industry type does matter. H1B Visas are not cheap by themselves (but definitely a lot cheaper that paying an American in some situations. You are probably looking at $2-$3K; less if you have in house lawyers trained to take care of it). It seems like in the game industry there's a lot of turnover and movement. As such, companies are probably much less likely to want to make an initial upfront investment for an employee that might only be brought on to work on a specific project for a few months (and as such, their investment would not be recouped). However, for industries that are looking for longer term solutions, it would be more likely for them to do this.

[metroid composite]

Our company got an H1-B Visa for someone by stating there were no suitable American applicants. This was...a very boldfaced lie considering because the position was specialized, but not to some level where you couldn't find an American applicant.  It went through pretty easily (not quickly mind you, but easily), and this is for a company with no experience in that and with 10 employees total.

Several points.

1. H1B can only be used twice in a person's lifetime.  I, for instance, can only use about 10 more days of H1B time.  And this is important, because H1B is supposed to be the "path to green card" visa.  Use up your two H1Bs and you're kinda screwed.

2. The way this "can't find an American applicant" usually goes is that you need to post a job listing for the requirements, and if you don't get an applicant that fits the requirement, then you're good to go.  Every job I've had I'm sure there have been Americans who theoretically had similar enough skills somewhere, but they wanted to work for another company or in another city or they didn't want to leave their current employer.

To put things into perspective, do you feel like I should never have been hired at...any of the jobs I've worked?  Because almost all of them I'm sure that if you serched the entire country you could find an American who could do what I do.  The point isn't that there are no Americans, the point is that the demand from American companies for, say, engineers and computer programmers outstrips the supply.


Unless, of course, you feel like Americans graduating with Engineering and Computer Science degree aren't getting jobs, but I'm pretty sure they are.  By comparison, visas are not being offered to say, writers and artists and people with history degrees.


(In unrelated news, I'm getting audited by the American government over my immigration stuff, yaaaaaaaay.)

[Dhyerwolf]

H1's...last...6 years? So you may only get to use it twice, but twice is 12 years! Please note that I'm really not saying anything about you personally! I'm not claiming that everyone who has gotten a visa for work falls under this specific scenario. What I am saying is that I'm seeing people who normally have very different viewpoints about items like this.

Sorry to be brusque about this, but the article specifically mentioned that US STEM graduates have a 50% success rate in obtaining jobs in their fields. As someone who generally follows employment numbers because aspects of my job is tied to it, I would be very interested to read articles that go against this, but again, that both a very liberal and slightly conservative site basically had near identical comments lead be to believe that this is resonating across a broad enough group of people that there is some basis on it.

Good luck with the audit though! I completely think things should be reformed, but I guess don't think that having an option where American workers are undercut on wage and then have it tied to skill is at all a positive in an economy addicted to empowering corporations, hamstringing workers and offshoring.