RPGDL 2014 Season 3, Week 2: Obscura Strikes Back

[Cmdr_King]

Week 1 will be open for another 8 or so hours from this post.

Godlike

Cort (Legend of Legaia) vs Ramirez (Skies of Arcadia)
Melfice (Grandia II) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts Series)
Chris Lightfellow (Suikoden III) vs Velna (Legaia 2: Duel Saga)
Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) vs Dragon Emperor (Seiken Densetsu 3)

Heavy

Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen) vs Miang (Xenogears)
Cecil Harvey (Final Fantasy IV) vs Ephraim (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones)
Nel Zephyr (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) vs Oerba dia Vanille (Final Fantasy XIII)
Oerba yun Fang (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Solo (Dragon Quest IV)

Middle

Aigis (Persona 3) vs Rosch (Radiant Historia)
Lute (SaGa Frontier) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3)
Silmeria (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Meganium (Pokémon)
Garr (Breath of Fire III) vs Paws (Cthulhu Saves the World)

Light

Garcia (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Mullen (Grandia)
Rafa Galthana (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Palmer (Final Fantasy VII)
Sazh Katzroy (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Lucius (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)
Piccolo (Suikoden III) vs Tim Rhymeless (Wild ARMs 2)

[superaielman]

Godlike

Cort (Legend of Legaia) vs Ramirez (Skies of Arcadia)- No memory of Cort. E: Oh, that guy. Yeah Ramirez should be okay.
Melfice (Grandia II) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts Series)

Heavy

Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen) vs Miang (Xenogears)- I think I'm tiebreaking for the one who isn't terrible in game. It's a close call (Fogel needs a OHKO here).
Cecil Harvey (Final Fantasy IV) vs Ephraim (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones)- Cecil's not a Heavy sadly.
Nel Zephyr (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) vs Oerba dia Vanille (Final Fantasy XIII)- No clue.
Oerba yun Fang (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Solo (Dragon Quest IV)- Silence.

Light

Garcia (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Mullen (Grandia)-Mullen.
Rafa Galthana (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Palmer (Final Fantasy VII)- Palmer.
Sazh Katzroy (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Lucius (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)- Strong kneejerk.
Piccolo (Suikoden III) vs Tim Rhymeless (Wild ARMs 2)- Should have enough firepower for this.

[Random Consonant]

Godlike
Melfice (Grandia II) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts Series) - Yar.

Heavy

Cecil Harvey (Final Fantasy IV) vs Ephraim (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones) - Um.

Middle

Lute (SaGa Frontier) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3) - Elfboy mostly confirming my initial kneejerk.
Garr (Breath of Fire III) vs Paws (Cthulhu Saves the World)

Light

Garcia (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Mullen (Grandia) - It's Mullen.
Rafa Galthana (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Palmer (Final Fantasy VII) - It's Palmer.
Piccolo (Suikoden III) vs Tim Rhymeless (Wild ARMs 2) - Kneejerking that he can overwhelm the healing (or maybe just OHKOs, Tim is not exactly what one calls durable.)

[SnowFire]

Melfice (Grandia II) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts Series)
Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) vs Dragon Emperor (Seiken Densetsu 3)
Dragon Emperor has a loooot of HP, Luther doesn't really.  (Sadly wrong end of the bracket to spoil out Reicher w/ the holy absorbing.)

Heavy

Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen) vs Miang (Xenogears)
I suppose.
Cecil Harvey (Final Fantasy IV) vs Ephraim (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones)
Nel (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) vs Vanille (Final Fantasy XIII)
Vanille is arguably slower, but she can also equip some ID resistance which I'd see as interfering with Freeze.
Fang (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Solo (Dragon Quest IV)

Middle

Silmeria (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Meganium (Pokémon)
Safeguard.  (Silmeria...  meh.  You have her for such little time that you won't have key skills like Toughness the rest of the cast will surely have gotten, so I don't respect her in a slugfest at all, she deserves some crippling penalty for that.  Checking, halving her HP gives her .47 PCHP?  Sounds about right.  I suppose SG Silmeria wouldn't be affected by that, but I didn't do the SG, so.)

Light

Garcia (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Mullen (Grandia)
Mullen can snipe with magic and hoses Garcia's hit with weapon triangle disadvantage!
Rafa Galthana (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Palmer (Final Fantasy VII)
Sazh Katzroy (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Lucius (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)
Piccolo (Suikoden III) vs Tim Rhymeless (Wild ARMs 2)
Sadly.

[Jo'ou Ranbu]

Melfice (Grandia II) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts Series) - Yeah, no.
Chris Lightfellow (Suikoden III) vs Velna (Legaia 2: Duel Saga) - Physical immunity isn't really Chris' friend.
Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) vs Dragon Emperor (Seiken Densetsu 3) - Sheesh. That's too much of a durability difference.

Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen) vs Miang Hawaa (Xenogears) - OHKO.
Cecil Harvey (Final Fantasy IV) vs Ephraim (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones) - Oh dear lord.
Nel Zelpher (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) vs Oerba Dia Vanille (Final Fantasy XIII) - um I think. Freeze is turn two and I can't think of anything in SO3's statusblocking draw that's even remotely comparable to Pain.
Oerba Yun Fang (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Solo (Dragon Quest IV) - Smash.

Aigis (Persona 3) vs Rosch (Radiant Historia) - Healing and buffs are a decent start, and Aigis pretty much immuning most of Rosch's damage (lances are pierce-elemental in P3, I'm pretty amenable to seeing this translate flavor-wise) puts this pretty safely in her court.
Lute (SaGa Frontier) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3) - EDIT: SERIOUSLY, Lute?
Silmeria Valkyrie (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Meganium (Pokémon) - Safeguard is a nice thought, but Silmeria's likely 2HKOing anyway.
Garr (Breath of Fire III) vs Paws (Cthulhu Saves the World) - Garr is a pretty miserable Middle. 4HKO damage off that speed? Paws should be able to handle this pretty well, especially with Backstab getting a damage boost.

Garcia (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Mullen (Grandia) - lol ohkos in Light.
Rafa Galthana (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Palmer (Final Fantasy VII) - Palmer sucks.
Sazh Katzroy (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Lucius (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword) - I -suppose- Brave+Shell lets Sazh 2HKO without being 3HKOed back? Past that, it's a speed tiebreak.
Piccolo (Suikoden III) vs Tim Rhymeless (Wild ARMs 2) - lol ohkos in Light.

[DragonKnight Zero]

Weeellll....

Rafa Galthana (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Palmer (Final Fantasy VII): Gokou Rod and White Robe.  It's such a slapfight that Innocent from stick pokes will kick in.  That's if one doesn't allow a Reflect Ring by the way.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Godlike

Melfice (Grandia II) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts Series): I'd think.
Chris Lightfellow (Suikoden III) vs Velna (Legaia 2: Duel Saga): Physical immunity.
Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) vs Dragon Emperor (Seiken Densetsu 3): The SD3 final bosses had solid damage and ridiculous HP, and Dragon Emperor has a whole host of nasty status attacks and stat downs on top of that. He's really good.

Heavy

Cecil Harvey (Final Fantasy IV) vs Ephraim (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones): Does Reginleif hit weakness? Does Ephraim double? Should Cecil even bother showing up for this match? The world may never know.
Nel Zephyr (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) vs Oerba dia Vanille (Final Fantasy XIII): Pain's probably considerably more accurate than SO3 freeze.
Oerba yun Fang (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Solo (Dragon Quest IV): Notably more cleancut than the above, Fang goes first and has Improved Debilitation so Fog spam is very very fatal.

Middle

Lute (SaGa Frontier) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3): Lute should 3HKO (has a very low 2HKO normally, but barrier)... but he's slower (slightly below average, Melody is average) and has no immunity to poison, so he eats three Eliminate Scanners and two shots of poison. That's fatal unless you see ES doing less than 20% per shot. lol Lute, I definitely respect him more as a Middle but he gets spoiled here and my sympathy is zero.
Silmeria (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Meganium (Pokémon): Crits cut through pokemon buffs, so this seems hopeless for Meganium. Snowfire's argument is interesting but I'm pretty sure it takes like 3 fights to pick up Toughness, I certainly did it almost instantly for Hrist/Lenneth/Brahms who I did use.
Garr (Breath of Fire III) vs Paws (Cthulhu Saves the World): Garr sucks.

Light

Garcia (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Mullen (Grandia): Mullen always loses.
Rafa Galthana (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Palmer (Final Fantasy VII): White Robe probably lets her take the slugfest, yeah.
Sazh Katzroy (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Lucius (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword): Assuming Sazh can 2HKO Lucius, then he can at worst Haste/Shell to lap immediately and reduce Lucius damage to a 4HKO, and triggers only one counter and sees only two Lucius turns. I guess there's a chance he misses it but eh it really doesn't take much to 2HKO Lucius.
Piccolo (Suikoden III) vs Tim Rhymeless (Wild ARMs 2): Yep.

[Dhyerwolf]

Godlike

Cort (Legend of Legaia) vs Ramirez (Skies of Arcadia)- Flipped vote, see post below why.
Melfice (Grandia II) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts Series)
Chris Lightfellow (Suikoden III) vs Velna (Legaia 2: Duel Saga)

Heavy

Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen) vs Miang (Xenogears)- Support credit means Fogel slightly misses the OHKO to me. But yes at Miang losing the vote regardless.
Cecil Harvey (Final Fantasy IV) vs Ephraim (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones)
Nel Zephyr (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) vs Oerba dia Vanille (Final Fantasy XIII)
Oerba yun Fang (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Solo (Dragon Quest IV)

Middle

Aigis (Persona 3) vs Rosch (Radiant Historia)
Lute (SaGa Frontier) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3)
Silmeria (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Meganium (Pokémon)

Light

Garcia (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Mullen (Grandia)- Garcia...fails to 3HKO Mullen to me. Mullen definitely 3HKOs Garcia with that Mdef. Truth be told, even without my AS scaling, this is a hell of a lot closer than anyone is giving credit for. By conventional methods, Mullen is not far from PC Pdur (not quite there though). Garcia...barely 2HKOs average. Mullen doubles, but needs 3 attacks to kill and is slower. So he loses, but honestly it's not exactly a clean win.
Rafa Galthana (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Palmer (Final Fantasy VII)
Sazh Katzroy (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Lucius (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)
Piccolo (Suikoden III) vs Tim Rhymeless (Wild ARMs 2)

[074]

Godlike

Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) vs Dragon Emperor (Seiken Densetsu 3) - Yeah, SD3 finals are damn good slugfesters. 

Heavy

Cecil Harvey (Final Fantasy IV) vs Ephraim (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones) On top of everything else, Eph has WTA.  Not really that significant, but kind of adds insult.
Nel Zephyr (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) vs Oerba dia Vanille (Final Fantasy XIII) - bad draw for Nel here.

Middle

Lute (SaGa Frontier) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3) - wait, he gets spoiled?   HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Silmeria (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Meganium (Pokémon) - yeah, Toughness interp isn't what I'd call that notable, especially given that I actually didn't give anyone in my party that and did just fine for the maingame--and even then, you gain rune abilities faster.  DEF-buffers and DEF-tanks hate VP2 crits

Light

Rafa Galthana (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Palmer (Final Fantasy VII) - THIS IS THE BEST MATCH THIS SEASON.
Sazh Katzroy (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Lucius (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword) - yeah, I can buy Shell/Haste hype.
Piccolo (Suikoden III) vs Tim Rhymeless (Wild ARMs 2) - Not sure on this one, but eh.

[Cmdr_King]

Godlike

Cort (Legend of Legaia) vs Ramirez (Skies of Arcadia)- No vote.
Melfice (Grandia II) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts Series)
Chris Lightfellow (Suikoden III) vs Velna (Legaia 2: Duel Saga)
Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) vs Dragon Emperor (Seiken Densetsu 3)- No vote.

Heavy

Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen) vs Miang (Xenogears)- No vote.
Cecil Harvey (Final Fantasy IV) vs Ephraim (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones)
Nel Zephyr (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) vs Oerba dia Vanille (Final Fantasy XIII)
Oerba yun Fang (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Solo (Dragon Quest IV)

Middle

Aigis (Persona 3) vs Rosch (Radiant Historia)
Lute (SaGa Frontier) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3)
Silmeria (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Meganium (Pokémon)
Garr (Breath of Fire III) vs Paws (Cthulhu Saves the World)

Light

Garcia (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Mullen (Grandia)
Rafa Galthana (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Palmer (Final Fantasy VII)
Sazh Katzroy (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Lucius (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)
Piccolo (Suikoden III) vs Tim Rhymeless (Wild ARMs 2)

[Dhyerwolf]

Flipping votes on Cort vs Ramirez I think. I realized that the LoL boss topic must be using magic as the damage average (I think. The damage average at Cort is like 70% higher than endgame DL, and I think that would need magic to do that). From what I remember, magic is blue mage like except that being hit with a spell is not guaranteed to make you learn it, only one enemy uses each spell, only one spell is good, the spell is expensive, and it needs leveling. So...yeah, probably now I would not go with something that obscure (other games that probably will similarly potentially benefit from this stance: WA 5 bosses for sure). So...I'm thinking that Cort probably has a large durability edge. Ramirez has a speed edge and a slight starting damage edge. Cort has a damage edge below 50% HP. So I think Cort outslugs here.

[SnowFire]

Garcia (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Mullen (Grandia)- Garcia...fails to 3HKO Mullen to me. Mullen definitely 3HKOs Garcia with that Mdef. Truth be told, even without my AS scaling, this is a hell of a lot closer than anyone is giving credit for. By conventional methods, Mullen is not far from PC Pdur (not quite there though). Garcia...barely 2HKOs average. Mullen doubles, but needs 3 attacks to kill and is slower. So he loses, but honestly it's not exactly a clean win.

For whatever it's worth, I do agree with this analysis, it's just that Mullen loses anyway despite solidly doubling & 4HKO = 2HKOing, as you pointed out.  Pyro said enemy Avoid in FE8 is ~15 or so,  so despite Garcia being 9 Hit worse than average, pretty much the whole FE8 cast hits all the time it seems.

The problem for Mullen is that even if he's seen as faster (which he might be with no Charisma Helm + scaled vs. entire cast?), he still eats Hand Axe magic counters -> 1x Silver Axe blast, and it's real shaky that he survives that.  So even throwing Mullen some bones doesn't really help.  He needs Garcia to have FE6 axe accuracy or to have his own damage seen as way better than it actually is.

[Dhyerwolf]

I'm not saying that Mullen wins under that interp, I don't think Garcia's win is especially clean overall. If he strongly 2HKOed it would feel clean. Without that Mdef, it would feel clean. As is, he's just getting his second turn and killing (not by much!) slightly before facing his own death (where he would be killed far more cleanly).

This is more to say that Garcia should be mocked along with Mullen (Actually, at least Mullen is just a loser boss. Garcia is a very loserish endgame PC. His horror is on display far more prominently in game).

That said, I already spoke with Super, and I think the real fireworks for Garcia's patheticness will come next round. Already salivating over him potentially losing to RAFA PHYSICALS.

[Dark Holy Elf]

If this match is close to you and Snowfire, who give solo bosses a lot more credit than myself/Super/Snow/etc., then you can imagine what we think of it, and why we mock Mullen far more than Garcia.

[Luther Lansfeld]

Godlike

Cort (Legend of Legaia) vs Ramirez (Skies of Arcadia)
Melfice (Grandia II) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts Series)
Chris Lightfellow (Suikoden III) vs Velna (Legaia 2: Duel Saga)
Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) vs Dragon Emperor (Seiken Densetsu 3)

Heavy

Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen) vs Miang (Xenogears)
Cecil Harvey (Final Fantasy IV) vs Ephraim (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones)
Nel Zephyr (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) vs Oerba dia Vanille (Final Fantasy XIII)
Oerba yun Fang (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Solo (Dragon Quest IV)

Middle

Aigis (Persona 3) vs Rosch (Radiant Historia)
Lute (SaGa Frontier) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3)
Silmeria (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) vs Meganium (Pokémon)
Garr (Breath of Fire III) vs Paws (Cthulhu Saves the World)

Light

Garcia (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones) vs Mullen (Grandia)
Rafa Galthana (Final Fantasy Tactics) vs Palmer (Final Fantasy VII)
Sazh Katzroy (Final Fantasy XIII) vs Lucius (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)
Piccolo (Suikoden III) vs Tim Rhymeless (Wild ARMs 2)

[Cmdr_King]

Godlike

Cort (Legend of Legaia)- i vs Ramirez (Skies of Arcadia)- i (Hatbot)
Melfice (Grandia II) vs Yuri Hyuga (Shadow Hearts Series)- iiiiiiii
Chris Lightfellow (Suikoden III) vs Velna (Legaia 2: Duel Saga)- iiiii
Luther Lansfeld (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) vs Dragon Emperor (Seiken Densetsu 3)- iiii

Heavy

Fogel (Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen)- iii vs Miang (Xenogears)- ii
Cecil Harvey (Final Fantasy IV) vs Ephraim (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones)- iiiiiiiii
Nel Zephyr (Star Ocean: Till the End of Time) vs Oerba dia Vanille (Final Fantasy XIII)- iiiiiii
Oerba yun Fang (Final Fantasy XIII)- iiiiiii vs Solo (Dragon Quest IV)

Middle

Aigis (Persona 3)- iii vs Rosch (Radiant Historia)
Lute (SaGa Frontier) vs Melody Vilente (Wild ARMs 3)- iiiiiii
Silmeria (Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria)- iiiiii vs Meganium (Pokémon)- i
Garr (Breath of Fire III) vs Paws (Cthulhu Saves the World)- iiiii

Light

Garcia (Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones)- iiiiii vs Mullen (Grandia)- ii
Rafa Galthana (Final Fantasy Tactics)- iiiiiiiiii vs Palmer (Final Fantasy VII)
Sazh Katzroy (Final Fantasy XIII)- iiiiiiii vs Lucius (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)
Piccolo (Suikoden III)- iiiiiiii vs Tim Rhymeless (Wild ARMs 2)