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Author Topic: Proving Grounds Heavy: Run, it's a fairy tiger lord.  (Read 1275 times)

SnowFire

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Proving Grounds Heavy: Run, it's a fairy tiger lord.
« on: May 09, 2015, 06:45:33 AM »
Just some topics to pass the time in-between super's Shift variant & CK's Bluelike tournament for those crazy enough to enjoy voting a lot, with a focus on newish stat topic entries.

Xerneas - Does side jobs when not modeling for front covers?
Denam - Sadly a big interp mess, probably not safe even for Futurama.  Can be anywhere from Low Middle to Low Godlike, although I'd kneejerk him as High Heavy from my views.  Sticking him here for some fun.
Rei - Despite the hit on his status accuracy, seems not to really be a low Heavy from his run in the Shift tourney.

Xerneas (Pokemon) vs. Wendigo (FFX)
Xerneas vs. Legretta (TotA)
Xerneas vs. Fang (FF13)
Xerneas vs. Scias (BoF4)
Xerneas vs. Hiro (Lunar 2)
Xerneas vs. Cristo/Kiryl (Dragon Quest 4)
Xerneas vs. Maxim (Lufia 2)
Xerneas vs. Zapdos (Pokemon)
Xerneas vs. Sasarai (S3)
Xerneas vs. Say'ri (FEA)
Xerneas vs. Amphysvena (XG)
Xerneas vs. Altrius (RoS)
Xerneas vs. Kain Highwind (FF4: TAY)


Denam (Tactics Ogre) vs. Wendigo (FFX)
Denam vs. Legretta (TotA)
Denam vs. Fang (FF13)
Denam vs. Scias (BoF4)
Denam vs. Hiro (Lunar 2)
Denam vs. Cristo/Kiryl (Dragon Quest 4)
Denam vs. Maxim (Lufia 2)
Denam vs. Zapdos (Pokemon)
Denam vs. Sasarai (S3)
Denam vs. Say'ri (FEA)
Denam vs. Amphysvena (XG)
Denam vs. Altrius (RoS)
Denam vs. Kain Highwind (FF4: TAY)


Rei (Breath of Fire 3) vs. Wendigo (FFX)
Rei vs. Legretta (TotA)
Rei vs. Fang (FF13)
Rei vs. Scias (BoF4)
Rei vs. Hiro (Lunar 2)
Rei vs. Cristo/Kiryl (Dragon Quest 4)
Rei vs. Maxim (Lufia 2)
Rei vs. Zapdos (Pokemon)
Rei vs. Sasarai (S3)
Rei vs. Say'ri (FEA)
Rei vs. Amphysvena (XG)
Rei vs. Altrius (RoS)
Rei vs. Kain Highwind (FF4: TAY)

Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy: Run, it's a fairy tiger lord.
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2015, 01:30:39 AM »
Xerneas (Pokemon) vs. Wendigo (FFX) - EDIT: Geomancy applies at the end of the second turn? Welp.
Xerneas vs. Legretta (TotA) - Legretta like 6HKOs Xerneas at full HP, that's enough time to put even two Geomancies up. And they're hardly -necessary-.
Xerneas vs. Oerba Yun Fang (FF13) - Misty Terrain spoils Fang's nonsense to a degree, though the defensive debuffs are still a thing. On the other hand, Xerneas can survive a turn from Fang and 2HKO back with Moonblast. Sentinelspamming would just delay the inevitable.
Xerneas vs. Scias (BoF4) - EDIT: Ew, Xerneas is faster? Nevermind the bollocks.
Xerneas vs. Hiro (Lunar 2) - Dark Sword.
Xerneas vs. Cristo/Kiryl (Dragon Quest 4) - Once again, don't think any of Cristo's status work out to turn one here. Moonblast heal-lock works.
Xerneas vs. Maxim (Lufia 2) - Dear lord, Maxim 4HKOs Xerneas and is notably slower. That does -not- work out against the fairystag.
Xerneas vs. Zapdos (Pokemon) - EDIT: yeah, Geomancy less good than I thought.
Xerneas vs. Sasarai (S3) - Hm. Go first, open with Light Screen, then Leech Horn spam => Close Combat on the double it gets before dying should close the deal. Geomancy is really damned good if Xerneas gets the turns to capitalize on it.
Xerneas vs. Say'ri (FEA) - EDIT: Sigh.
Xerneas vs. Amphysvena (XG) - That skipped turn post-Wave #3 Demiser is a killer. Xerneas gets two post-Geomancy turns to blow it up and blow it up it does.

7-4. Wow. Xerneas doesn't really win fights in a single turn ever, but stopping it from getting two turns is a pain in the ass and its stat spread is simply great. Geomancy, once it sets in, makes it simply monstrous. Geomancy is actually less good than I thought, though. Oh well.

Not touching Lord Denam with a ten-foot pole.

Rei (Breath of Fire 3) vs. Wendigo (FFX) - Wendigo makes Rei explode as soon as it gets a turn below 75% HP and he can do absolutely nothing to stop that from happening.
Rei vs. Legretta (TotA) - Hm. Rei casts Speed so he can get constant 3-2s and he halves Searing Sorrow... but he instantly drops her into Holy Lance => Searing Sorrow combo range, and that still 2HKOs him. Seeing he may not even -3HKO- her (think he juuuuuuuuust misses it under my views of her pdur... and, IN FACT, she scrapes a 2HKO on him with a physical chain + Searing Sorrow combo. Yeah, that won't pan out at all, he wishes he could at least heal while her offense blows.
Rei vs. Oerba Yun Fang (FF13) - Fang just 2HKOs Rei and doesn't get OHKOed back, no strings attached, which makes any status resistance debate pretty much irrelevant.
Rei vs. Scias (BoF4) - Once again, Rei needs to OHKO here and he kinda falls short.
Rei vs. Hiro (Lunar 2) - And yet again. He can't even reduce Dark Sword accuracy to turn two!
Rei vs. Cristo/Kiryl (Dragon Quest 4) - Rei's damage game is worthless here, it gets walled by Increase spamming. His ID game risks getting outraced by both Silence or ID, and the equipment that resists those have to fight a slot in his inventory. Think the average of assumptions favor Cristo here.
Rei vs. Maxim (Lufia 2) - Maxim misses a 2HKO on Rei and risks being 3-2'd (a 4-3 is a very much foregone conclusion). Rei also doesn't hand Maxim anything really relevant with the first hit in case he misses the 3-2. You need to allow starting IP here for Maxim to have a shot.
Rei vs. Zapdos (Pokemon) - I think Agility lets Zapdos pull this off. Rei 2HKOs after going Weretiger, but Zapdos has a 2HKO on average as well and Rei can't really 4-3 here.
Rei vs. Sasarai (S3) - Land of Eternity OHKOs Rei's ass. Tough luck.
Rei vs. Say'ri (FEA) - Say'ri probably doesn't double Rei, but 2HKOs him anyway and he badly struggles with counters and evade here.
Rei vs. Amphysvena (XG) - I -think- Amphysvena can avoid a 4-3, which is pretty decisive considering Rei 3HKOs. If not, nevermind the bollocks.

1-10. His only clear victory is against a low Heavy and even a bunch of -other- low Heavies handed him his ass. No, Rei isn't great in the division, his run was just kind of lucky.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2015, 06:57:37 PM by Jo'ou Ranbu »
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[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
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[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> OMG!!!!
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SnowFire

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy: Run, it's a fairy tiger lord.
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2015, 07:58:40 AM »
Denam is totally a lulz pick, yup.

Anyway, I offer an average turn 1 with a wait, so 89+95 = ~18 TP & 20 MP at the start of the battle for me.  Which is actually pretty important as 2x Denam turns gets stuck at 18 MP instead, so he can't open with turn 1 Petrify or Sleep.  (Funny, I thought he was at 18 MP when I wrote this up before, but I guess that's 2 Denam turns...  maybe I should go with that?  Kinda weird how that "rewards" slow characters though rather than an average speed turn 1.  And Denam can hypothetically equip heavier crap if he really wants to which would be silly.)

Denam (Tactics Ogre) vs. Wendigo (FFX)
Denam is faster and gets his Phalanx game going.  Also Sleep if he ever wants to take a break.
Denam vs. Legretta (TotA)
Build TP early, then Phalanx through the Limit phase.
Denam vs. Fang (FF13)
I'd kneejerked Fang, but now that I realize Denam's status game is online turn 1, he wins the status quickdraw after all.  Petrify -> beatdown.
Denam vs. Scias (BoF4)
Scias wins the status quickdraw...  but can he win afterward?  Dunno.
Denam vs. Hiro (Lunar 2)
You can sorta argue Stunproof = ID resistance, but nah.  Hiro swings with ID, then gets Petrified or Silenced, then Denam has to kill Hiro before it wears off (or layer some extra status on) before ID attempt #2 comes along.  Hmm, with my preferred damage average for Hiro, he does .59 PCHP in a double swing, or 1.19 PCHP in 2 hits...  Hiro has 1.09 PCHP, but also above-average defense that matters twice as much.  L2 Defense is apparently subtractive with 2 points of Defense = 1 HP less, so this saves...  calc calc calc...  .08 PCHP, so Hiro took 1.11 PCHP, assuming there isn't further TO class matchup nonsense at work.  Anyway I guess Denam wins off that 2HKO.
Denam vs. Cristo/Kiryl (Dragon Quest 4)
Coinflip on who goes first, but inclined to tiebreak for Cristo here, Denam REALLY hates tanks that heal.  (Like, the final boss?  Takes 1 damage from lvl. 21 Daggers.  This isnt' uncommon, Daggers are crazy influenced by defense.)  If Cristo can resolve Upper & get healing off he should be good here, if Denam shoots off his statues early he'll never get going.  He can hold MP in reserve, then start draining MP + using Silence, but that probably gives Cristo enough time to throw lots of ID at him.
Denam vs. Maxim (Lufia 2)
Status wrecks as usual.
Denam vs. Zapdos (Pokemon)
More status.
Denam vs. Sasarai (S3)
Sasarai resolves Earthquake before Phalanx starts, and (most?) status is arguably out here thanks to Scarf, but I dunno how Sasarai wins once the Phalanx cheese starts.  He could hypothetically heal his way out, but his slightly bad defense means that Denam is probably getting 50 TP a go, so the Phalanx cheese never ends.  There's doubles at least but the doubles go into Phalanx'd Denam so do lol damage.
Denam vs. Say'ri (FEA)
More status.  Say'ri only OHKOs chancily even if Denam is given 18 MP to start with, and then status does its dirty work, turning off those counters by making her a statue.
Denam vs. Amphysvena (XG)
Well, HP-1 gets around Phalanx!  Too bad Denam can probably heal -> attack again with Phalanx in response.  Denam's extreme slowness when Phalanxing is an issue in that he might not get 2 turns, but he doesn't have to do this long, I don't think.
Denam vs. Altrius (RoS)
Status-immune super-tank.  Okay Denam can open with status due to now having 20 MP, but the daggers will be doing crappy damage, so he doesn't win before Petrify expires, and then Altrius goes status immune and starts healing and it's terrible.

10-2.  Okay after I started to actually figure out votes and realized that Denam starts with 20 MP to my views rather than 18 MP, he got considerably better.  He might just make Low Godlike for me anyway.  With 18 MP Denam basically loses to turn 1 status; with 20 MP Denam can status first sometimes, so he only fears *faster* status.  Or huge tanks that turn off Phalanx.  (Of course, scale him vs. the normal average and now he OHKOs solidly every turn and is obviously in Godlike, or use Warrior and he's a Middle!  Interp splits, alas.)

Well, a funny exercise at least.

superaielman

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy: Run, it's a fairy tiger lord.
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2015, 12:58:14 AM »

Denim has no business in Heavy in PSX and would get swept by the field if I voted on it. Undecided if I will.

Rei vs. Legretta (TotA)- Rei's damage control/durability is a problem here, for starters.
Rei vs. Fang (FF13)
Rei vs. Scias (BoF4)
Rei vs. Hiro (Lunar 2)- Hiro's not OHKOed, so goodbye Rei.
Rei vs. Cristo/Kiryl (Dragon Quest 4)- Silence, Upper in response to any damage.
Rei vs. Maxim (Lufia 2)- Think so.
Rei vs. Sasarai (S3)- Yeah, Snow's likely right.
Rei vs. Kain Highwind (FF4: TAY)- Haste/Blink in response to damage, start jumping if Rei gets cute with Death.


Rei's a low heavy, not surprising.
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Dhyerwolf

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy: Run, it's a fairy tiger lord.
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2015, 04:24:12 AM »
Now that Rei's damage sucks to me relatively more, he's just outclassed here. His best strategy tends to be: Speed Up, get EXAs on most everything, transform on the EXA and hope.

For the sake of brevity, if I don't bold or say anything, Rei loses very cleanly
Rei (Breath of Fire 3) vs. Wendigo (FFX)
Rei vs. Legretta (TotA)
Rei vs. Fang (FF13)
Rei vs. Scias (BoF4)
Rei vs. Hiro (Lunar 2)
Rei vs. Cristo/Kiryl (Dragon Quest 4)
Rei vs. Maxim (Lufia 2)- Well, Rei just misses pushing Maxim into something nasty. EX turns exist.
Rei vs. Zapdos (Pokemon)- Not...especially close, but at least Rei does some damage here. Thunder+more reliable finisher.
Rei vs. Sasarai (S3)
Rei vs. Say'ri (FEA)
Rei vs. Amphysvena (XG)- Amp needs 4 turns to be killed to me at least (scaling against 3 PCs), so...that kills Rei's 1 argument

Rei 1-10

Not touching Denam.
...into the nightfall.

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy: Run, it's a fairy tiger lord.
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2015, 04:47:01 AM »
Snow, reading over some of your votes, I'm not sure you always realise Xerneas's Geomancy has a charge turn? Maybe I'm misreading.


Xerneas (Pokemon) vs. Wendigo (FFX): Wendigo 2HKOs, and Horn Leech doesn't slow this down much. Geomancy's charge time screws it over here, the turn order goes (charge Geomancy), Wendigo, (Geomancy resolves), Wendigo. No way is Xerneas doubling before then.
Xerneas vs. Legretta (TotA): Yeah, I'd imagine Legretta bad full HP phase costs her this.
Xerneas vs. Fang (FF13): Xerneas can Misty Terrain then 2HKO with Moonblast, and yeah don't think Fang is doing much before then.
Xerneas vs. Scias (BoF4): Geomancy, Moonblast for a OHKO? This gives Scias two turns, and status could be bad... but yeah not really because Scias has to wake Xerneas up sooner or later. And Xerneas is faster at base (just edited BoF4 speeds into the stat thread).
Xerneas vs. Hiro (Lunar 2): Faster, Moonblasts twice.
Xerneas vs. Cristo/Kiryl (Dragon Quest 4): Cristo's ID certainly isn't worse than turn 2 here... but yeah it probably is turn 2, and Xerneas... actually has enough shots of Moonblast to effectively heal-lock with that, surprising.
Xerneas vs. Maxim (Lufia 2): Buffs up and smites.
Xerneas vs. Zapdos (Pokemon): Faster, 3HKOs first. Not sure I see how Xerneas is going to change this.
Xerneas vs. Sasarai (S3): Light Screen first, now Sas does 39% tops. This buys Xerneas time for Geomancy to weaken things further, and after that draining should easily outpace any Sasarai offence he still has left.
Xerneas vs. Say'ri (FEA): Kills in two attacks. Xerneas would, but evade. Not sure how Geomancy is supposed to help here, even if he then hits turn 1 he still needs three turns total, and if Xerneas barely 3-2's using a Geomancy strat against Land of Eternity it's not happening against average. Say'ri should do enough damage even if she stops doubling. (She doesn't to me.)
Xerneas vs. Amphysvena (XG): Shitty draining to the rescue! Ramsus damage so bad. That move should really be on Xerneas' default set.... although I guess everything there is useful.
Xerneas vs. Kain Highwind (FF4: TAY): Xerneas is faster and probably 2HKOs with Moonblast. Kain's healing even after Haste can't really meaningfully slow this down. It might ward off the initial 2HKO but longterm it's hopeless.


Denam (Tactics Ogre) vs. Wendigo (FFX): Denam is tough, such that Wendigo will need three turns to kill him. But yeah even if he Mighty Impacts every turn, that's not enough.
Denam vs. Legretta (TotA): 2HKOs once she activates her limit, and Denam damage not really good enough here.
Denam vs. Fang (FF13): Status.
Denam vs. Scias (BoF4): Hmm. Scias needs several shots, but his healing lets him control things pretty well.
Denam vs. Hiro (Lunar 2): Bang, you're dead.
Denam vs. Cristo/Kiryl (Dragon Quest 4): Thwack, you're dead.
Denam vs. Maxim (Lufia 2): Faster, tankier, and Maxim has problems getting IPs against those faster than him in general.
Denam vs. Zapdos (Pokemon): Wrong damage type for Denam.
Denam vs. Sasarai (S3): OHKOs.
Denam vs. Say'ri (FEA): They'll trade blows on the opening round and Denam should get enough TP for Mighty Impact on the second, which ignores counters and he may well get his second turn in before Say'ri's... and that would kill. Surprising. If Say'ri doesn't attack then Denam just sits there until he can Mighty Impact, so she has to. She can attack with something weaker, but Denam only needs to gain like 10 TP from damage received which means she can't really avoid it. EDIT: As per below, sword Denam loses... not sure which is better though, sticking with dagger for now.
Denam vs. Amphysvena (XG): Denam has no healing, so yeah.
Denam vs. Kain Highwind (FF4: TAY): Blink.


Rei (Breath of Fire 3) vs. Wendigo (FFX): OHKOs once beaten up.
Rei vs. Legretta (TotA): Rei can half fire, which means he won't be OHKOed... but still think this is a pretty bad setup for Rei.
Rei vs. Fang (FF13): I think. Pain will destroy Rei, so he pretty much needs to devote all his gear to blocking it, which means he can't block Slow or Deprotect.
Rei vs. Scias (BoF4): I guess Scias just 2HKOs?
Rei vs. Hiro (Lunar 2): Hiro definitely does.
Rei vs. Cristo/Kiryl (Dragon Quest 4): Rei goes Protectors + two Talismans, and lands Death first? Mmm... no, not at 34%. Still, he forces Kiryl to silence him, then goes Weretiger and gets in a free hit... at which point there's a heal-lock? Unless Kiryl can survive a normal + Uppered Weretiger hit? Upper is definitely potent... Kiryl cuts physicals by 9.5% before Upper and 82% after, so Rei does 77% with his two opening strikes. Kiryl... can just survive that.
Rei vs. Maxim (Lufia 2): Speed then blitz.
Rei vs. Zapdos (Pokemon): Don't see anything about lightning resist?
Rei vs. Sasarai (S3): Or earth.
Rei vs. Say'ri (FEA): Well Rei avoids being doubled, so his best bet is to go for Death probably, and hope that evade lets him live long enough? Hmm, no reason that shouldn't work.
Rei vs. Amphysvena (XG): Yeah, not blitzing this out.
Rei vs. Kain Highwind (FF4: TAY): Haste/Blink will wreck any offensive strategies, so Rei just goes for Death instead. He's faster but not ridiculously. Jump's charge time makes it trashy here, so that won't work... can't see Rei getting less than two Deaths off before Jump and one more after, or Kain goes for physicals and only 3HKOs, and I don't think even Haste lets Kain get in three attacks first? Mm, that's close. But... Rei has evade anyway, so yeah whatever.

Xerneas 9-3 (Pretty good. Not Godlike, I wouldn't think, but scary.)
Rei 3-9 (good anti-status stuff, speed, and Death. Back-ended damage is nice sometimes)
Denam 2-10 (Somewhat better than I expected, but not Heavy.)
« Last Edit: May 13, 2015, 01:16:07 AM by Dark Holy Elf »

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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy: Run, it's a fairy tiger lord.
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2015, 10:36:53 AM »
I was assuming Geomancy kicked in at the -beginning- of Xerneas' second turn, not the end. If that's the case, yeah, some fights need a vote change.
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy: Run, it's a fairy tiger lord.
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2015, 03:12:48 PM »
The move works exactly like (EDIT) Solar Beam, so the stat boosts kick in in place of the second turn (neither beginning nor end, but it does eat the action for said turn).
« Last Edit: May 13, 2015, 01:07:14 AM by Dark Holy Elf »

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Jo'ou Ranbu

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy: Run, it's a fairy tiger lord.
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2015, 03:38:26 PM »
I get it. That's actually worse than I thought.
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[01:08] <Soppy-ReturningToInaba> UVIET?!??!?!
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Random Consonant

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy: Run, it's a fairy tiger lord.
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2015, 06:53:32 PM »
Xerneas (Pokemon) vs. Wendigo (FFX) - A wee bit too durable.
Xerneas vs. Scias (BoF4) - when in doubt trust elfboy
Xerneas vs. Hiro (Lunar 2) - Yep.
Xerneas vs. Cristo/Kiryl (Dragon Quest 4) - when in doubt trust elfboy
Xerneas vs. Maxim (Lufia 2) - Oh deer.
Xerneas vs. Zapdos (Pokemon)
Xerneas vs. Sasarai (S3)
Xerneas vs. Say'ri (FEA)
Xerneas vs. Amphysvena (XG)
Xerneas vs. Altrius (RoS)


Denam (Tactics Ogre) vs. Wendigo (FFX) - nope.jpg.  Rending Gale likely isn't good enough here considering Denam is going second.
Denam vs. Scias (BoF4) - e: actually Scias dies the moment Denam gets a turn with 100 TP to me and I don't think he can prevent this.
Denam vs. Hiro (Lunar 2)
Denam vs. Cristo/Kiryl (Dragon Quest 4)
Denam vs. Maxim (Lufia 2) - Hypothetical Sword Denam go!  (That should probably be his default since it shouldn't be much worse for go-to damage in the DL than the kindey spike if it is at all and Rending Gale is kind of badass)
Denam vs. Zapdos (Pokemon)
Denam vs. Sasarai (S3)
Denam vs. Say'ri (FEA) - e: see below
Denam vs. Amphysvena (XG)
Denam vs. Altrius (RoS) - They're kind of similar on durability at base, but that 20% mHP regen alone kind of gives Denam fits here.


Rei (Breath of Fire 3) vs. Wendigo (FFX)
Rei vs. Scias (BoF4)
Rei vs. Hiro (Lunar 2)
Rei vs. Cristo/Kiryl (Dragon Quest 4)
Rei vs. Maxim (Lufia 2) - I have to think this is right even to me, the speed buffing kind of makes Maxim very sad here.
Rei vs. Zapdos (Pokemon)
Rei vs. Sasarai (S3)
Rei vs. Say'ri (FEA)
Rei vs. Amphysvena (XG)
Rei vs. Altrius (RoS) - I'm not really on board with 99 MC granting ID immunity (the closest thing RoS has IIRC is functionally FF9 Freeze and yeah no that's not good enough) and Altrius misses the 2HKO, so have some death.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2015, 05:14:46 AM by Random Consonant »

Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy: Run, it's a fairy tiger lord.
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2015, 09:51:56 PM »
Quote
(That should probably be his default since it shouldn't be much worse for go-to damage in the DL than the kindey spike if it is at all and Rending Gale is kind of badass)

For the record I may agree? I had to make a guess on which weapon would be best for him and raised him accordingly but there's a good chance you're right.

Sword Denam is slower, though (after the first turn), and in particular he doesn't get his second turn before Say'ri's second and thus he would lose the fight there. Though I guess you could let him be sword by default and switch to a dagger for more speed... mm. Hard to say.

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Random Consonant

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy: Run, it's a fairy tiger lord.
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2015, 10:30:27 PM »
Mmm yeah wasn't really paying attention to +RT at the time.   Trading dagger skill for 1H swords may... actually cost him that regardless, at least going strictly by Chaos route averages and probably a theorhetical average that throws in the Law route PCs too since the kidney spike is dealing less damage and normal poke+Mighty Strike isn't that good a 2HKO here.  I guess Chaos+Neutral would still be a win there maybe but I think I'm switching my vote all the same.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2015, 10:32:09 PM by Random Consonant »

hinode

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy: Run, it's a fairy tiger lord.
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2015, 11:55:18 PM »
The move works exactly like Hyper Beam, so the stat boosts kick in in place of the second turn (neither beginning nor end, but it does eat the action for said turn).

I assume you mean Sky Attack here, not Hyper Beam? A non-damaging move working like Hyper Beam would be pretty wierd.

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy: Run, it's a fairy tiger lord.
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2015, 01:08:20 AM »
Was thinking of Solar Beam, yes, my bad.

And I dunno, I could totally see a Def/SDef+2 or +3 buff which worked like Hyper Beam.

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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy: Run, it's a fairy tiger lord.
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2015, 02:45:02 AM »
Denam (Tactics Ogre) vs. Wendigo (FFX)
Denam vs. Legretta (TotA)
Denam vs. Fang (FF13)
Denam vs. Scias (BoF4)
Denam vs. Hiro (Lunar 2)
Denam vs. Cristo/Kiryl (Dragon Quest 4)
Denam vs. Maxim (Lufia 2)
Denam vs. Zapdos (Pokemon)
Denam vs. Sasarai (S3)
Denam vs. Say'ri (FEA)
Denam vs. Kain Highwind (FF4: TAY)


Rei (Breath of Fire 3) vs. Wendigo (FFX)
Rei vs. Legretta (TotA)
Rei vs. Fang (FF13)
Rei vs. Scias (BoF4)
Rei vs. Hiro (Lunar 2)
Rei vs. Cristo/Kiryl (Dragon Quest 4)
Rei vs. Maxim (Lufia 2)
Rei vs. Zapdos (Pokemon)
Rei vs. Sasarai (S3)
Rei vs. Say'ri (FEA)
Rei vs. Amphysvena (XG)
Rei vs. Kain Highwind (FF4: TAY)
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Re: Proving Grounds Heavy: Run, it's a fairy tiger lord.
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2015, 02:40:37 AM »
Rei (Breath of Fire 3) vs. Wendigo (FFX): Smashes.
Rei vs. Legretta (TotA): Should 2HKO? Might not need to.
Rei vs. Fang (FF13): Nixes status/Debuffs, and probably staves off a 2HKO? Wait no, he'd need the protectors and those hurt defense.
Rei vs. Scias (BoF4): Surely 2HKOs. I don't think he is OHKOd or statused/ID'd?
Rei vs. Hiro (Lunar 2): Is Death turn 2 for me? Sure.
[/b]Rei[/b] vs. Cristo/Kiryl (Dragon Quest 4): Silence
Rei vs. Maxim (Lufia 2): I think he kills with Weretiger before Maxim can KO. Speed->Weretiger should give an EX-turn way too fast for an IP to be of concern.
Rei vs. Zapdos (Pokemon): Turn 2 status/ID?
Rei vs. Sasarai (S3): Should OHKO with EQ?
Rei vs. Amphysvena (XG): Ramses' final gear boss? Hmm. HP->1 -> Skip Turn -> Poke. Can Rei turn into a Weretiger and attack 3 times? He gets 3 turns, so he'd need to sneak in an additional turn. He could do it with Speed but of course that takes a turn itself.  On the other hand Ramses has no offense outside the HP-1 to speak of! So Rei can sacrifice Pdef for speed safely. Which probably leads to some very, very nice buffed speed. That might do it.

Having turn 2 instead of 3/4 status is a big deal for Rei. While I don't see it as turn 1, turn 2 seems fair enough (especially with Wisdom Rings in place of Titan Belts)
« Last Edit: May 17, 2015, 03:09:54 AM by Pyro »