Suikoden Tierkreis

[Talaysen]

Not going to actually put this on the forums, but everything is on the wiki: http://www.rpgdl.com/wiki/index.php?title=Suikoden_Tierkreis

[Dark Holy Elf]

Boss stats

SPOILER WARNING, but seriously, duh. Why are you reading this if you haven't played the game (unless you are Snow)? Go play the game.

Unshockingly, since it's a Suikoden game, most of the bosses are pretty bad (both in-game and in the DL). This makes me lazy about collecting stats. As it has everyone else apparently. So yeah. This is a terrible boss stat topic by my standards, and you'll all have to deal with it, or make better notes yourselves.

I haven't tested boss speed too extensively, generally assume they're all pretty close to average unless I say otherwise.

I don't have Conon and Fergus stats. They aren't very good, doing ST evadable 3HKO off slightly sub-PC durability. Woooo! Conon has a low 3HKO off above average speed, Fergus a high 3HKO off below average speed, from memory. It's possibly I'm underrating them a little and Fergus actually 2HKOs or something but whatever. Both Lights. Someone else can grab stats for them. There's also Dirk I guess, who is probably in the same general area and might even prefer his skill-less PC form but is screwed either way.

A whole bunch of PCs also have boss forms, often more than one! (Diadora, Sophia, Nova, Vaslof, Resno, Fredegund...) Due to their general mediocrity and unmemorability (discounting the ones which are plot fights), I'd imagine the PC forms will be seen as both more legal and, usually, better.

I think all techs are ITE. Actually, I don't think I've ever seen a boss miss, but missing in general is rare as hell in this game, so who knows. Also, I make up names for enemy-only techs, but everyone should know this by now.

I don't have party stats for one to compare bosses to, but in general... endgame damage is ~1500 and HP is just shy of 500 according to the stat topic. This probably works well enough for the final boss on the whole, with the second to last being only a little better. The bosses in Cynas (third to last dungeon) should be a bit better off both due to lower levels but also because chances are you may not be able to afford lots of really uber storebought gear yet (those Giant God Fists and their +100 HP are silly) and characters haven't learned their last two skills. So they probably face an HP value in the lower 400's and maybe 20-25% less damage. That said, I pretty much encourage players to use their personal judgement here.


Macoute
Windbag

~7500 HP
Below average Def, good MDef. Def isn't far from average (+10%?), but the MDef is somewhat notable (~1/3 reduction?). Didn't test exactly.

Physical: ~160 damage
Angel Song: ~100 magic damage MT, 50% silence, 50% sleep

Comments: Competent by Tierkreis boss standards, and probably the best Suikoden human boss since S3! Both of these say NOTHING. Macoute's damage and durability (particularly physical) are unimpressive at best, but Angel Song is a good move in-game and not bad in the DL either. If you don't resist the status and fear silence, Macoute only needs one turn to fuck you over. Middle.


Beardsley (Cynas form)
Jade lookalike

~5500 HP
25% Weak to Slash

Physical: ~150 damage

Comments: He's terrible. I guess since he's in the middle of a dungeon with no save points nearby the designers went easy on us, or something. It's possible he has other moves since I didn't draw the battle out (and his HP uh sucks even going easy on him) but FAQs don't mention them, so whatever. Really didn't need the slash weakness either. Light.


Valfred (Cynas form)
Fundamentalist

~6000 HP

Physical: ~130 damage, long range
Bind Lightning: ~180 magic damage, unknown chance of paralysis (0/1 for me)
Fuse Dome: ~200 magic damage MT

Notes: Fights with a Gigas Arms who has ~3000 HP, is protected in the back row, and can physical for ~120. I killed it first so unsure if it needs to be killed to end the battle.

Comments: The depressing thing is that Fuse Dome (solid 3HKO MT, probably 2HKOs some people) is very good for a Tierkreis boss up to this point. Other than that, the durability is too bad to win slugfests against much of anything. In an earlier form, he had a move that did sleep+paralysis+damage (ST) which is way better in a duel than anything he has here, and it's possible he still has it in this form, which would make him quite a bit better if the status accuracy is good. He doesn't want the previous form since its durability is epic (even compared to this one). Assuming possible hype there doesn't pan out, Light. Doesn't matter unless one bans....


Valfred (final dungeon form)
"This one day! It's everything to me!"

~10000 HP
25% Weak to slash. High Def (~30% reduction). Above average MDef.

Physical: ~160 damage.
Heavy Slash: ~300 damage.
Counter Stance: Counters regular physicals this round, dealing ~160 damage each time. The counterstance is active for the entire round regardless of speed.

Notes: Good defence basically cancels out his slash weakness, so in practice he's resistant to everything but slash.

Comments: Totally unlike his previous forms, Valfred has opted for a pure physical build, and it's a winning trade. Heavy Slash is quite painful, scoring easy 2HKOs, and his durability is actually... okay it's still mediocre, but better! Maybe above PC against non-slashing physcials even! Middle, maybe even a pretty solid one, he's like... a less ball lightningish Culgun or something. Yay?


The One King
One world, one future

Notes: The One King has three forms. After the first, the battle ends and you gain exp from the fight, possibly levelling up (and fully healing HP/MP as a result). After the second, the battle ends, then another one immediately begins. Status effects are removed between these battles, and I'd bet that anyone dead revives to 1 HP, but you gain no Exp/HP/MP otherwise. Then there's form 3. In other words, 2->3 has an argument to be a legal formchain (though not one I personally swallow) whereas 1->2 does not unless you're really generous. Still, here they all are.

All forms of the One King appear to have slightly above average speed.

First form

~12000 HP
Average defences.

Physical: ~200 damage, long range

Comments: Oh no, ST 3HKO off average durability. Pretty much a pure average dueller with boss immunities, he'd have to try to be more boring. LONG RANGE SPOILS FIRE EMBLEM.

Second form

~15000 HP
Slightly above average defences.

Physical: ~220 damage to a column
Summon Giant Rock: ~140 physical damage MT

Comments: Getting closer to 2HKO now, but not quite there yet!

Third form

~25000 HP
Reduces physicals by ~10%, magic by ~20%.

Physical: ~220 damage to a column
Mjollnir: ~330 physical damage, long range
Shield: Ups own physical defence for 5(?) turns. About a 40% reduction on top of his existing defences.
Perfect Unity: ~330 (unknown damage type) damage MT. Usable below half HP only.

Comments: I still need to test what damage type his ultimate attack is, and how long Shield lasts. Mjollnir's almost as good in the DL anyway, and in-game is notable because it can OHKO a frail back-row healer (*grumble*). Durability hovers a bit over 2PC, the def-buffer is nice if he expects to live 3 more turns against a physical opponent, and he solidly 2HKOs off decent stats all-around. No real flaws, although if his big attack ends up physical he becomes quite wallable. Even so, a good overall mix. High Heavy.

[SnowFire]

A few minor additions / comments.

* I'd kneejerk Paralysis as much closer to 33% turnskip than 50%, myself.
* The Tenkai Star has a plot claim to the God-Beast Sword, given to him directly from Atrie...  although it involves giving up the HP from a Giant God Fist.
* Chrodechild has a plot claim to Twin: Flash, and Fredegund to Twin: Flame.  (Similar to Diadora's plot/initial claim to Endless Travels, which she does have in the topic.)  Doesn't matter very much for Chrodechild as it involves giving up a mighty Giant God Fist mace, so she can get a bit of speed in exchange for a big loss in HP and small loss in damage, but Fredegund won't complain and gets a bit more magically durable.  (And her backup magic is slightly better, for all that she isn't winning with it anyway.)
* I'd be in favor of using something considerably higher than the DL average damage for the late-game bosses.  If nothing else, the Tenkai Star is guaranteed and his damage is quite good (so should be 25% of the average?), but more generally when you can use the best 4 characters out of a zillion, I dun wanna reward bosses for suikoscrubs existing.  Valfred (Statue form) resolved a *single action* against me, dying on turn 2 before he could do anything then.  There's also buffs in Alert/Ire which would ramp up long term damage some…  for all that it's not actually worth using against them because they die so fast, a questionable cause for hype.  Also, I don't seem to recall gaining THAT much damage between Cynas and the Statue of the One King (I guess some characters get good damage moves off the final 2 Chronicles?), so I wouldn't discount PC damage much for the Cynas bosses.
* The One King's ultimate attack in his third form is physical, I believe.  https://youtu.be/HczAEUy5MuQ?t=3m42s  shows Defense Canopy reducing the damage, and the "physical" build type characters taking slightly less damage.  So…  all physical bosses in the final dungeon, go figure.


For Dirk's PC form, I'd be highly inclined to disallow it, he's much more notable as a villain, and the only significant enemies you face with him in your party are rigged to make him look useless as they get wiped by magic, so it's arguably wretched anyway.

For some more slapdashy boss notes…  basically just confirming what Elf described above.  For the HQ attack, you're required to use 4 parties, so 16 characters, not all of whom may be up to par on level (something I'd give the bosses no credit for).  Speed is erratic and probably affected by move used and there's a healthy random element, so hard to peg.

Best 16 PC stats (rough), L30-40:
HP: 280
Damage: 760 (4x = 3040, damage from 2.5 rounds = 7600)

Water Dragon Conon
Weak to Pierce
HP: 4000 (~.53 PCHP)
Speed: Average?  Possibly even fast when using magic.

Attack: 90 damage
Slap: 38 damage to front row
Spear Torrent: 160 magical water damage, MT

Steel Giant Fergus
HP: 4500 (~.59 PCHP)
Speed: Very slow, always last

Attack: 150 damage
Black Gas: 110 physical damage, MT.  Inflicts blind status, 100% (makes physicals less accurate…  for all that this deserves 0 respect as almost no physical damage dealer uses their basic physical in ST.)
Slice the air: Does nothing?  Not sure what this was supposed to be.

Demon Beast Dirk
HP: ~6000 (~.79 PCHP)
Speed: A bit slow?

Attack: 110 damage
Roll: 70 physical damage, MT
Flame Explosion: 180 magic damage

Dirk is fought again later in a plot battle that's just a "wait 3 turns" deal, and he's fought in two duels later on where he is humiliatingly bad.  It's this form or bust for him.

Anyway…  I think Elf underrated the Archivist's damage a little (they all have 2HKOs), but I can't really blame him since 2-rounding these fools is quite possible in-game if you bring in a party with good damage, meaning you don't get to see anything.  Dirk is sort of okay, although knowing his speed better would be useful - ST speed still being annoyingly random.  But yeah, ST bosses have glass jaws.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Yeah, I didn't see any of their magic attacks. Good to know I pegged their physical damage correctly, though! Good work on getting those, though, they're certainly more detailed than my own boss notes.