Munchkin League Round 4

[Excal]

Round 4
Trainee Ramza vs. Sorceress Rinoa
White Mage Khimari vs. Final Fina


Trainee Ramza
Locked in Ubersquire, can use all abilities from tier 1/2 jobs that cost 399 or less.
Knight: All breaks except Weapon and Armor, Weapon Guard
Archer: All Charges between +1 and +5
Chemist: X-Potion, all status heal items except Holy Water, Maintenance (Uh, relevant if he faces Izlude maybe? <_<), EQUIP CHANGE!!!
Priest: Cure, Cure 2, Protect, Shell, Regen, Wall, Esuna
Wizard: Fire/Ice/Bolt, Fire/Ice/Bolt 2


Sorceress Rinoa
Has full stock of status and elemental magics, but no Magic command.  Has Item command and one Aura Stone.  Has one Status Defense Junction, cannot cast that spell.


White Mage Khimari
Stats: HP–3444 MP–278 STR–27 DEF–28 MAG–42 SPR–23 AGI–28 LUK–18 EVA–21 ACC-12
Attack- 514 damage
Holy (85 MP)- 8223 damage
Curaga (20 MP)- 4880 healing
Reflect (14 MP)
Dispel (12 MP)
Regen (40 MP)


Final Fina
Cupil Ring, 10 Sacrulen Crystals (full healing) in inventory

[SnowFire]

Trainee Ramza vs. Sorceress Rinoa
Aegis Shield means that Ramza is probably better off opening with Protect...  which still won't save him even from Angelo Cannon, although it's close (Protect not being quite damage halving messes this up), and it's obviously not close if Rinoa gets a better limit.  Don't think Ramza has a way to dispel Aura, either.  So that leaves scrapping Protect and just blitzing, and I don't think Ramza 2HKOs.
White Mage Kimahri vs. Final Fina
Kim blocks Stone, casts Reflect, then (slowly) wins, barring Reflect expiring at a convenient time.  E&C and Reflect are pretty brutal, yeah.  Although...  how long is the duration, anyway?  Permanent?  If it's not, I could actually be convinced to maybe give this to Fina, since she is considerably faster than Kim and that'd give her a decent shot at nuking him while his shields are down, and his blitzing capabilities are kinda bad (Holy is slow & rams into Fina's good MDef).

EDIT: See below.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Reflect, like most FFX positive status, is permanent unless dispelled.

For some reason I've never understood, FFT's dispel costs 700 JP.

[Dhyerwolf]

Hmm, Fina may choose to bid her time, then dispel and then ID on a double? Kimahri is slow as fuck. She just needs to get 21 SP and wait until a double and she should be okay.

Round 4
Trainee Ramza vs. Sorceress Rinoa
White Mage Khimari vs. Final Fina

[Dark Holy Elf]

28 Agility isn't "slow as fuck", it's 83% (better on the first turn, not calcultating that though). Additionally, Kimahri can spam Lancet (150% recharge) so if Fina isn't doing anything to pressure him, then a doubleturn can never happen. (Not that I'd let one happen anyway, doubleturning against someone who isn't actually using his turns makes no sense to me, but you don't have to agree with this view for this fight.) The only way Fina can pressure for a doubleturn is with dispel (forcing him to recast Reflect), but I believe she'd run out of SP before she could doubleturn this way? Not sure here.

[Dhyerwolf]

He's 23 speed, so he should be slower than the 28 speed numbers. I forgot about Lancet, which makes the match very messy. A whole bunch of normally marginal Fina moves start coming into play. An actual use for Lunar Blessing for instance (makes it so Lancet can't ever add lasting damage). Every time Fina uses dispel, she loses 3 SP (costs 6, she gains 3), but if Kimahri is playing defensive and having trouble doing lasting damage, she could always opt for the chance of multiple strings of 5 SP 50% ID. But that does threaten running into an Overdrive so Lancet may in fact win the day.

[Dark Holy Elf]

He's 28, it's listed right there in the setup... although I can see how you'd misread it, yeah, it's done in a slightly confusing way. (Though amusingly enough, 23 and 28 speed are, in fact, the same outside turn 1, they're at the opposite ends of that speed tier.)

[Dhyerwolf]

Oh yeah, I see now. I guess it boils down to how quickly Kimahri can get the OD. 4 Spirit Lance attacks assuming he doesn't lose any HP?

[superaielman]

Ramza/Rinoa is an abstain.

White Mage Khimari vs. Final Fina- Too much pressure. An overdrive is death and I just don't see how Fina stops it. Kim's going to get an OD before a double happens and he has way more MP To play with this Fina has SP for the dispel/reflect war.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Trainee Ramza vs. Sorceress Rinoa: Snowfire's take looks right.

[SnowFire]

28 Agility isn't "slow as fuck", it's 83% (better on the first turn, not calcultating that though). Additionally, Kimahri can spam Lancet (150% recharge) so if Fina isn't doing anything to pressure him, then a doubleturn can never happen. (Not that I'd let one happen anyway, doubleturning against someone who isn't actually using his turns makes no sense to me, but you don't have to agree with this view for this fight.) The only way Fina can pressure for a doubleturn is with dispel (forcing him to recast Reflect), but I believe she'd run out of SP before she could doubleturn this way? Not sure here.

Hmm, I don't quite follow the "actually using his turns" bit.  Even if Kimahri decides to do *nothing* and press triangle, there's still an initiative penalty unless I totally misremember FFX; FFX isn't ATB so even an "idle with the menu open" strat doesn't seem like it'd work, if allowed.  Also Lancet is pretty sad on damage, so if Kim really just spammed that, it's possible that he'd let Fina build up max SP and drop some crappy regen on. 

Anyway, if Kim really Overdrives in just 4 attacks (and opens with Reflect)...  hmph, well, 80% speed should give up a 5:4 vs. average, and Fina is a bit better, so Fina would get her double just in time for Dispel -> ID.  Of course Kim can switch from attacks to Lancet, and hope that Lancet spam finishes filling up a Warrior OD?  I guess.  There's also the fact that an MP-drained Fina, while she could *theoretically* set up an infinite match vs. Kim, it probably won't work and she'd be seen to be losing the damage-done tiebreak anyway, so Kim gets it I suppose.

[Dark Holy Elf]

There's an initiative penalty, but it's not a full turn. The point of Lancet (or pressing triangle, or switching to the same weapon, etc.) is that it means that Kimahri will never be doubleturned, due to the high recharge times of 1.5x or 3x. Dhyer was suggesting a strategy where Fina uses dispel + ID on a doubleturn, but that can't actually happen.

Ally Overdrive mode will give Kimahri Overdrive per turn he gets, getting an overdrive on the tenth. Dunno whether that or Warrior is better here, though.