Author Topic: Proving Grounds Middle/Heavy: Holy fire  (Read 1026 times)

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4964
    • View Profile
Proving Grounds Middle/Heavy: Holy fire
« on: April 21, 2016, 08:58:15 PM »
It's too bad we did vanilla Heavy already, no Ryoma / Leo / Camilla / Corrin fanservice.  Yet.

Aria (CTON) - Unlike evil arcane magic users, Aria practices only good divine !magic.  The distinction is important!
Azama (FE Fates) - Unlike evil arcane tome users, Azama practices only good healing magic.  Also lance stabbings.  He's pretty chill about it, tho.
Shulk (XBC) - It's easy to be chill about things when you can see the future.
Alen (S1) - It's hard to be chill about things when you are on fire.


Aria vs. Maria (SO3)
Aria vs. MOMO (XS3)
Aria vs. Starmie (Pokemon)
Aria vs. Nicholai (SH2)
Aria vs. Czar Dragon (SMRPG)
Aria vs. Lich (FF1)
Aria vs. Holly Whyte (BD)
Aria vs. Oracle (FFT)
Aria vs. Yosuke (P4)
Aria vs. Cecilia (WAACF)
Aria vs. Kresnik (WA4)
Aria vs. Elize (ToX)
Aria vs. Parry (DQ5)


Azama vs. Maria (SO3)
Azama vs. MOMO (XS3)
Azama vs. Starmie (Pokemon)
Azama vs. Nicholai (SH2)
Azama vs. Czar Dragon (SMRPG)
Azama vs. Lich (FF1)
Azama vs. Holly Whyte (BD)
Azama vs. Oracle (FFT)
Azama vs. Yosuke (P4)
Azama vs. Cecilia (WAACF)
Azama vs. Kresnik (WA4)
Azama vs. Elize (ToX)
Azama vs. Parry (DQ5)


Shulk vs. Maria (SO3)
Shulk vs. MOMO (XS3)
Shulk vs. Starmie (Pokemon)
Shulk vs. Nicholai (SH2)
Shulk vs. Czar Dragon (SMRPG)
Shulk vs. Lich (FF1)
Shulk vs. Holly Whyte (BD)
Shulk vs. Oracle (FFT)
Shulk vs. Yosuke (P4)
Shulk vs. Cecilia (WAACF)
Shulk vs. Kresnik (WA4)
Shulk vs. Elize (ToX)
Shulk vs. Parry (DQ5)


Alen vs. Maria (SO3)
Alen vs. MOMO (XS3)
Alen vs. Starmie (Pokemon)
Alen vs. Nicholai (SH2)
Alen vs. Czar Dragon (SMRPG)
Alen vs. Lich (FF1)
Alen vs. Holly Whyte (BD)
Alen vs. Oracle (FFT)
Alen vs. Yosuke (P4)
Alen vs. Cecilia (WAACF)
Alen vs. Kresnik (WA4)
Alen vs. Elize (ToX)
Alen vs. Parry (DQ5)

Tide

  • Malice Tears
  • Mod Board Access
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1373
  • Cacophony of Sorrow
    • View Profile
Re: Proving Grounds Middle/Heavy: Holy fire
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2016, 07:13:13 PM »
Well guess I have to since I'm not sure anyone else can really vote on XBC. XBC first, maybe Fates later.

Interp notes: I'll be assuming that 1 "turn" for Shulk is equivalent to about 5 seconds. This feels like the most logical interpretation based on points made by Dhyer at the end of the topic. It mimics somewhat the ability to unleash a flurry of techs in-game and feels more realistic to in-game versus using cool down rates. Will still be considering things like Movement speed where relevant of course. Will note so when applicable. Special note - as per the Artes guide, Shulk's auto attack charges his talent gauge by 20%. He needs 3 turns to stock up a full talent gauge (less if you give him half gauge and such).

Shulk vs. Maria (SO3) - Shulk can get defenses against Paralysis, which hurts Maria quite a bit. He can drop Ether boosts on his armors if needed to get the full 100%. Also, Maria is so slow, Shulk has a decent argument of being able to set up a Back Slash, which really sucks.
Shulk vs. MOMO (XS3) - This one is weird. Blood Dancer could be an issue, but Shulk can predict a fatal blow and instantly get metre, then immediately have Purge at the ready if she decides to do that. She probably actually wants Abyss Walker for this as Shulk is largely physical and it kills his tension, which means he's more prone to further missing. Shulk has an argument for setting up Speed for uber evade against Phys!MOMO but that's turn 3 at best under this interp. And MOMO can drop Abyss Walker instantly.
Shulk vs. Starmie (Pokemon) - 2HKOs most likely. The second him puts Shulk in Glorious Future range, but Starmie can just sit and Recover, catching Shulk as Armor wears off to murder him.
Shulk vs. Nicholai (SH2) - Probably OHKO'd. Definitely 2HKO'd and not OHKO'd back.
Shulk vs. Czar Dragon (SMRPG) - Form chain definitely wins. No form change....mmm, this gets better. Shulk can potentially set up an Armor lock where he refreshes Monado Armor every 3 turns and slug it out that way. Problem is, that takes 3 turns to set up and Battle Soul is suicide. I think Czar 3HKOs him, even if you see Immunization catching Fear.
Shulk vs. Oracle (FFT) - Zerk is bad for Shulk and he can't block it. Stone would trigger a vision, which would give Shulk time to knock Oracle out of it. Berserk won't since it's not a fatal status. Once that hits, Shulk can't use any other artes and his auto attacks scare nothing.
Shulk vs. Yosuke (P4) - Suku gives Shulk some headaches but Yosuke is kinda outmatched here. Not only does Shulk auto-crit, which is really bad against Persona 3/4 characters, but confuse is out and his mighty 4HKO damage doesn't scare Shulk's healing >_>. So sad.
Shulk vs. Cecilia (WAACF) - Buffing is out, thanks to Shulk having Monado Purge/Eater. And he can reasonably use Battle Soul this time if needed because Ceci's damage output is so low. Once Shulk has full metre, he can go on the offensive with Stream Edge into Monado Cyclone into a Back Slash for a finisher, which I don't see her survivng. You could argue about Remain/Auto Life but that gets Dispelled and I'm pretty sure she loses her turn that round anyway.
Shulk vs. Kresnik (WA4) - Kresnik's damage is so bad, he probably let Shulk set up an armor loop. Attack until Armor, use Armor. Then rebuild gauge during the massive damage reduction time. Kresnik can't do anything about this except stall. At some point, Shulk can probably unload the same big finisher on him as he did with Ceci and if he can't, he wins through getting more damage off. 
Shulk vs. Elize (ToX) - Probably. Elize can get back Glorious Future shinenagans thanks to being able to switch modes. If she starts up a physical, Shulk will use Speed, at which point she cancels back to a magic attack when he has no metre. If she starts up a magic attack, he could go for a stun cancel, but she can cancel out of that spell just by guarding and he's stuck waiting on her again. Past that, she outclasses him with superior healing and can overcome his in return.

5-5
High Middle / Low Heavy Oddball. He's really a spoiler package through Glorious Future instant metre filling shinenagans, and he can burst damage/burst metre fill in a jiffy but he's bad against straight slugfests since it takes him a bit of time to build that metre and he lacks damaging turn 1 options (this is probably true for most XBC chars tbf).
« Last Edit: April 22, 2016, 07:17:38 PM by Tide »
<napalmman> In Suikoden I, In Chinchirorin, what is it called when you roll three of the same number?
<@Claude> yahtzee

<Dreamboum> Everyone is learning new speedgames!
<Dreamboum> A bright future awaits us gentlemens
<Pitted> I'm learning league of legends
<Dreamboum> go fuck yourself

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4964
    • View Profile
Re: Proving Grounds Middle/Heavy: Holy fire
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2016, 08:04:21 PM »
If Aria equips a Willpower Gauntlet for turn 1 DW, she deals .54 PCHP damage with it.  It goes to .62 PCHP w/ 2x Enhanced Gauntlets but that requires skipping T1 DW.  Once she lands it, she can spam 2x Defend -> put in place again for a Silence lock while also defending a lot.

Aria vs. Maria (SO3)
No Paralysis blocker for CTON, although...  did multihit attacks in CTON count for multiple hits off the shield?  If not, then Early Protection saves the day and Aria might win, since Maria would need to deal >50% of Aria's health, which should only happen with Berserk Energy Burst hype or something.
Aria vs. MOMO (XS3)
Faster, MOMO isn't winning with physicals.
EDIT: Except MOMO blocks Silence, so never mind.  Rekt.
Aria vs. Starmie (Pokemon)
Silence vs. Pokemon, always fun, especially since CTON Silence very clearly works on "physical" flavored skills.  I guess it'd just turn a Poke off entirely?  So for Starmie's 1 turn...  uh, there's confusion I guess, but not sure if that does enough reliably.  There's also the fact that the default setup has only 5 shots of damage so Aria can hypothetically Defend / Heal her way out of trouble, but I'm not a fan of that particular default.  So yeah, eat 1 turn of Starmie, then Silence lock.
Aria vs. Nicholai (SH2)
I'm going to assume that Nicholai blocks Seal because LOL otherwise.  Nicholai is ~1.5 PCHP or so by Dhyer's numbers, less via Elf (and definitely Tide!) views of baking in more deadly combos & such...  ignoring Defend, seems like Nicholai 2HKOs average, so 3HKOs Aria thanks to Early Protection.  So, without Defend hype, that's trouble, Nick just wins first, and outpaces a Ritual Blade healing setup too.  With Defend...  Aria now cleanly wins if she can 2HKO, and probably hustles out a victory if she 2HKOs w/ the 2x E Gauntlet setup too (= Nick has < 1.24 PCHP).  I'm willing to consider Defend at least somewhat, but eh, she needs enough judgment calls happy to give it to the deadly SH2 BOSS.
Aria vs. Lich (FF1)
HOLD being hideously overrated in the DL strikes again.
Aria vs. Holly Whyte (BD)
Aw, crap, what's the maximum stamina in CTON again?  If it's 8, Aria's fine, if it's 7, she's in trouble, since she wants to throw 2x Deus Wraths in a row after chipping Holly down.  Although honestly...  BD bosses have MP but some ludicrous amount, right?  Worst comes to worst, Aria's actually infinite stall probably triumphs.
Aria vs. Oracle (FFT)
Oracle immunes Silence.
Aria vs. Yosuke (P4)
No P4, but seems an uphill battle, as I'd be inclined to see CTON skills usually ignoring evasion, so an opening Sukukaja isn't doing a lot here, nor will be basic-physicals only Yosuke.
Aria vs. Cecilia (WAACF)
No ACF, but no equipment so no silence immunity, right?  I guess there's CONDITION GREEN but no.
Aria vs. Kresnik (WA4)
Kresnik has locked equipment so no Silence immunity hype here, although I GUESS you can hype him as wearing off Silence extra-fast thanks to a starting Adrenaline Rush.  Although if Aria can't power through, we have a genuinely infinite match on our hands.
Aria vs. Elize (ToX)
Seal Charm.
Aria vs. Parry (DQ5)
Aria is *mildly* faster and drops the Silence first.


Azama: Mildly below average speed, but 1.72 PDur, 1.14 MDur, some dodge, & Renewal.  You need to deal > .52 PDur a round to outpace Renewal, or > .34 MDur.

Azama vs. Maria (SO3)
Paralysis.
Azama vs. MOMO (XS3)
Heals a lot until tons of Boost Gauge, maybe hastes herself, drops Blood Dancer, busts past Renewal easily.  Maybe even just OHKOs with a BD'd Freeze Shock anyway, still kills even if Miracle kicks in.
Azama vs. Starmie (Pokemon)
Starmie will run out of damage and is wasting too many turns having to heal itself after Bolt Naginata counters & Countermagic.  Gets worse if you consider Bolt Naginata hitting a weakness.
Azama vs. Nicholai (SH2)
Not enough damage to pace past Renewal.
Azama vs. Lich (FF1)
Lich kills himself if he tries to use Ice2 on Azama, even with counters disabled!  Good ol' Countermagic + Renewal.  If he uses FAST & buffs his physical attack, he's hitting the wrong defense and doesn't outpace Renewal.  A miserable loss.
Azama vs. Holly Whyte (BD)
Check out that 4% crit rate on Iron - and I'm sure L20 Azama will have an even higher crit rate as the battle stalls out.
Azama vs. Oracle (FFT)
High Magic, but only okay Resistance, talks about "Praise Hokote" and the like...  yeah, sounds like a High-Faith character to me.  Petrify will do the trick
Azama vs. Kresnik (WA4)
Doubled Apoptosis is .31 PDur, and doing that 184% as often as Azama gets turns is .57 PDur worth of damage, so Kresnik DOES outpace Azama's Renewal...!  ..very slowly.  And this assumes Kresnik doesn't have to spend turns healing or recasting Adrenaline Rush.  And he's eating Bolt Naginata counters and dealing with a mild bit of evasion.  Even his infinite MP stall game won't work as Azama has that crit rate.
Azama vs. Elize (ToX)
Elize barely outpaces Azama's Renewal, but has stun procs at least...  but I doubt they matter.  This matchup stalls out until a crit, too.  I guess there's Elize Mystic Arte hype, but it's not listed in the topic, so eh.
Azama vs. Parry (DQ5)
Okay.  Kabuff up, cast Fizzle until it hits, throwing in full healing if needed.  That'll turn off Bolt Naginata counters at least.  Heal one last time, then go in.  Kazap apparently deals ~.61 Mdur damage.   Parry will just barely, barely 3HKO with this baking in Renewal (3x = 1.83 MDur - .68 Renewal = 1.15 MDur, which is fatal).  In doing so he'll eat 2 Countermagics and eat 3 Iron Naginata hits.  Countermagic means that Parry takes ~.61 damage himself,  + ? more from the Naginata - vs. buffed defense, when he has ~.97 PCHP.  Oh, and Azama's evasion works vs. magic, and he also has Miracle, so throw in some fails there (although if he evades, it's not SO bad, since Parry won't eat countermagic and can heal back up to try again, MP permitting.).  Sheesh.  This comes down to DQ5 buffing game hype + duration on Fizzle...  Parry needs to reduce average physicals to nearly worthless damage to win this, but that also seems possible.  hinode?!


Alen vs. Maria (SO3)
Alen vs. MOMO (XS3)
Alen vs. Starmie (Pokemon)
Alen vs. Nicholai (SH2)
Alen vs. Czar Dragon (SMRPG)
Alen vs. Lich (FF1)
Alen vs. Holly Whyte (BD)
Alen vs. Oracle (FFT)
Alen vs. Yosuke (P4)
Alen vs. Cecilia (WAACF)
Alen vs. Kresnik (WA4)
Alen vs. Elize (ToX)
Alen vs. Parry (DQ5)


Aria: 4-5-1 (but 2 matches I'm not voting that Aria surely wins)
Azama: 6-3-1
« Last Edit: April 23, 2016, 10:14:29 PM by SnowFire »

Pyro

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1792
  • Mwahahaha
    • View Profile
Re: Proving Grounds Middle/Heavy: Holy fire
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2016, 08:59:57 PM »
Aria vs. Maria (SO3): Silence blocker and paralysis.
Aria vs. MOMO (XS3)
Aria vs. Starmie (Pokemon): Her silence will do a number on a Pokemon.
Aria vs. Nicholai (SH2)
Aria vs. Czar Dragon (SMRPG): Not immune to silence? I'd consider her the faster.
Aria vs. Lich (FF1)
Aria vs. Holly Whyte (BD)
Aria vs. Oracle (FFT)
Aria vs. Yosuke (P4)
Aria vs. Cecilia (WAACF): No silence immunity?
Aria vs. Kresnik (WA4): Silence works?
Aria vs. Elize (ToX): Elize immunes silence and has better damage/gimmicks.
Aria vs. Parry (DQ5): Silence.

Typical religious extremist has to silence any opposing voices.



Alen vs. Maria (SO3): Paralyzer.
Alen vs. MOMO (XS3): Edit: OHKO
Alen vs. Starmie (Pokemon): Water Pokemon > Fire.
Alen vs. Nicholai (SH2): 2HKOs?
Alen vs. Czar Dragon (SMRPG): Eats the fire dude.
Alen vs. Lich (FF1): Hold.
Alen vs. Holly Whyte (BD): Burninate?
Alen vs. Oracle (FFT): Halves fire, status?
Alen vs. Yosuke (P4): Sukukaja and stuff.
Alen vs. Cecilia (WAACF): Healing and buffing?
Alen vs. Kresnik (WA4): Kresnik is good vs magic damage.
Alen vs. Elize (ToX): Elemental magic vs. Elize is usually not the answer.
Alen vs. Parry (DQ5): Insulate and healing.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2016, 12:47:11 AM by Pyro »

Random Consonant

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 2207
    • View Profile
Re: Proving Grounds Middle/Heavy: Holy fire
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2016, 09:04:42 PM »
Azama vs. Starmie (Pokemon)
Azama vs. Nicholai (SH2) - yeah no
Azama vs. Czar Dragon (SMRPG)
Azama vs. Lich (FF1)
Azama vs. Holly Whyte (BD) - has a non-zero chance of busting past her healing, she can't say the same for busting past his regen
Azama vs. Oracle (FFT)
Azama vs. Yosuke (P4) - Yosuke probably needs Auto-Taru to break past Renewal here which is going to be pretty bad times once it runs out.
Azama vs. Kresnik (WA4) - Yeah no, Kresnik is only 101% speed at base so there's basically no way I see him outpacing Renewal.

Alen vs. Starmie (Pokemon)
Alen vs. Nicholai (SH2)
Alen vs. Czar Dragon (SMRPG)
Alen vs. Lich (FF1)
Alen vs. Holly Whyte (BD)
Alen vs. Oracle (FFT)
Alen vs. Yosuke (P4) - resisting fire should be enough with that shoddy healing
Alen vs. Kresnik (WA4)
« Last Edit: May 03, 2016, 07:49:33 PM by Random Consonant »

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8161
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: Proving Grounds Middle/Heavy: Holy fire
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2016, 09:09:50 PM »
Abstain on Shulk at least for now.

Aria vs. Maria (SO3): Even assuming Early Protection wards off Maria's opening move entirely, she'll probably land status on her second, and Aria can't 2HKO her or silence her. (Just misses the 2HKO.)
Aria vs. MOMO (XS3): Quickdraw? If Aria goes first she can silence MOMO. If MOMO goes first she can become immune to physicals and/or silence Aria! XS3 speed is mostly a wash, but MOMO is more below average than Aria on paper. I dunno. Oh wait, MOMO can block silence apparently. Well then.
Aria vs. Starmie (Pokemon): With its speed and damage it should overwhelm Aria's defensive game, and Aria certainly isn't overwhelming it in the meantime.
Aria vs. Nicholai (SH2): I'm never sure what form of Nicholai I vote on. Let's say boss today. Anyway boss Nic only 4HKOs due to Early Protection, that isn't working here. PC probably gets in a stall-fight and loses due to SP anyway.
Aria vs. Czar Dragon (SMRPG): Czar goes first and uses Iron Maiden. Or does some damage, I dunno. Aria goes next and silences him! Yeah, it works. Anyway, let's assume he opens with Fear... he then hits her with physicals three times while she defends to build up Stamina to silence again, doing 78% of her health... which yeah lets him finish after her next turn, so she has to start throwing in healing. If she does, this opens up Czar's 2HKO magic damage or reapplying of fear (which makes the magic near OHKO) and Aria can't deal with that.
Aria vs. Lich (FF1): Hold. Alas that glorious divine magics can not ward off the undead.
Aria vs. Holly Whyte (BD): Holly does 19%, which Aria's "heal and attack on alternating turns" can offset. (Alternatively, she can store stamina.) Meanwhile, Holly walls Aria's damage over time with her own healing, which removes about 0.55 PCHP. But... I have to think that Aria can equip for maximum power and fire off two Deus Wraths in a row and blitz past the healing if necessary? Seems to fit. Close though.
Aria vs. Oracle (FFT): Block silence, apply sleep -> petrify.
Aria vs. Cecilia (WAACF): Have to think an opening silence is too much, and Aria is faster.
Aria vs. Kresnik (WA4): Hmm, Aria can win this with two Deus' Wrath and a followup physical. Kresnik, in his one unsienced turn, will use Haste, then attack a bunch... he has an 8HKO with his physical, plus one to break the shield is 9. Aria meanwhile is trying to kill on her own fifth turn. Does Kresnik get one unhasted turn and 9 hasted before this? Hm, nope.

Azama vs. Maria (SO3): Paralysis wrecks.
Azama vs. MOMO (XS3): Should be able to turtle with healing and buffs, then Blood Dancer Offensive magic should OHKO.
Azama vs. Starmie (Pokemon): Turtles and buffs like crazy, but... still only 4HKOs through Renewal, and that's while triggering Countermagic. It's just not going to work.
Azama vs. Nicholai (SH2): Azama's got a really nasty build, as seen in the previous fight: physicals are bad due to his Def, magic triggers countermagic, and he regens all the while. Far too much, here.
Azama vs. Czar Dragon (SMRPG): Mm, on the other hand, Countermagic probably doesn't work against MT, and fear sets up some nasty damage here.
Azama vs. Lich (FF1): Hold.
Azama vs. Holly Whyte (BD): Azama is very happy his weapon doesn't break, because this fight ain't ending ever, but he clearly does more damage over time. Actually, wait, he has 4% crit.
Azama vs. Oracle (FFT): Azama vs. status is just a sad thing.
Azama vs. Cecilia (WAACF): Set up some buffs, heal a lot, use Genocide Edge to finish.
Azama vs. Kresnik (WA4): Kresnik beats Renewal approximately never, so again those 4% Azama crits eventually decide this.

Alen vs. Maria (SO3): Halves fire on top of the fact that if she gets a turn against the paralysis-vulnerable, she wins.
Alen vs. MOMO (XS3): Not sure who goes first. If it's Alen, he OHKOs. If it's MOMO, she can silence him and then turtle to a win from there. My kneejerk is that XS3 speed isn't quite so pointless that MOMO's -0.86 is better than Alen's -0.14, but it's close. (My feeling is that XS3 speed should be taken at, like, 20% what I normally would, which at least keeps everyone in the 90-110% range.)
Alen vs. Starmie (Pokemon): Faster, 3HKOs, isn't 2HKOed due to fire resistance.
Alen vs. Nicholai (SH2): Faster, either OHKOs or 2HKOs, isn't 2HKOed back anyway...
Alen vs. Czar Dragon (SMRPG): "Immune to Fire", whelp.
Alen vs. Lich (FF1): Hold part 3. Alen has some MDef so it might fail, and he certainly OHKOs if he gets a turn, but it should still be above 70%.
Alen vs. Holly Whyte (BD): Holly needs respect for her later forms' MDef to win this, and there are too many reasons not to do that for me.
Alen vs. Oracle (FFT): White Robe gives Oracle a turn, paralysis is still turn 1, then Sleep should land before that can wear off, then petrify.
Alen vs. Cecilia (WAACF): Is happy for the new stat topic. OHKOs.
Alen vs. Kresnik (WA4): Alen's offence against Adrenaline'd Kresnik is way too low.

Alen 4-6
Aria 4-6
Azama 4-6
« Last Edit: April 23, 2016, 09:11:35 PM by Dark Holy Elf »

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

SnowFire

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 4964
    • View Profile
Re: Proving Grounds Middle/Heavy: Holy fire
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2016, 10:13:19 PM »
Right, XS3 blocked Silence.  I'll change my vote.

Elf, I don't think HOLD is gonna save Lich, unless you see the Countermagic proc as being Ice-elemental and thus resisted!  Lich just kicks his own ass here, Countermagic is ITD and hits Lich's really bad HP directly.  For extra hilarity, if you force bosses to occasionally attack and not intentionally stall forever, Azama can even drop his weapon to go for a Divine Retribution kill to make it even more secure.

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8161
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: Proving Grounds Middle/Heavy: Holy fire
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2016, 10:21:34 PM »
I see Hold shutting off Countermagic and Divine Retribution. Mostly just an intuitive thing since there's no real way to test this, but the "doesn't activate if you're dead" implies "doesn't activate if you aren't able to act" to me, for lack of evidence otherwise.

Additionally I don't see Countermagic working against MT (it makes little sense to me intuitively + I'd be surprised if it kicked in against fire orbs), which Lich's damage is.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Pyro

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1792
  • Mwahahaha
    • View Profile
Re: Proving Grounds Middle/Heavy: Holy fire
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2016, 12:45:52 AM »
NEB, are you sure Alen's damage is good enough to OHKO Cecilia? Dhyer lists him doing 969 to a 1300 kill point (74.5%), and ACF Ceci has 119 HP to a 1334 average (84%) [This could go closer to 76% if Zed is thrown in?]. She also has gamebest Res.

Guess he is good enough to OHKO XS3 MOMO...

Dark Holy Elf

  • DL
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 8161
  • Well-behaved women seldom make history
    • View Profile
Re: Proving Grounds Middle/Heavy: Holy fire
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2016, 05:51:16 AM »
That's Gourry's old stat topic. Dhyer's one takes the fighters against non-0 defence, and the kill point is 998 (unless you give out magic runes to people who don't start with them. I don't), which was what I was using to vote. Hence my comments.

Erwin Schrödinger will kill you like a cat in a box.
Maybe.

Pyro

  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 1792
  • Mwahahaha
    • View Profile
Re: Proving Grounds Middle/Heavy: Holy fire
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2016, 02:25:31 PM »
Oh I see it now. Dhyer didn't put his new ropic in his own stat topic list yet.

superaielman

  • "Mordero daghain pas duente cuebiyar/The fear of death holds not my heart!"
  • Moderator
  • Denizen
  • *
  • Posts: 9632
    • View Profile
Re: Proving Grounds Middle/Heavy: Holy fire
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2016, 12:34:58 PM »
Alen vs. Maria (SO3)
Alen vs. MOMO (XS3)
Alen vs. Starmie (Pokemon)
Alen
vs. Nicholai (SH2)
Alen vs. Lich (FF1)- Think so? Hold's reliable but not perfect and Lich is so, so dead if Alen gets a turn.
Alen vs. Holly Whyte (BD)- Holly doesn't like really high damage dealers.
Alen vs. Oracle (FFT)- Yeah surely.
Alen vs. Yosuke (P4)- Right, he resisted fire.
Alen vs. Kresnik (WA4)
"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself"- Count Aral Vorkosigan, A Civil Campaign
-------------------
<Meeple> knownig Square-enix, they'll just give us a 2nd Kain
<Ciato> he would be so kawaii as a chibi...