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Author Topic: Futurama 2018 Week 4  (Read 1218 times)

Cmdr_King

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Futurama 2018 Week 4
« on: May 13, 2018, 12:28:06 AM »
Godlike

Satanail (Star Ocean: The Last Hope) vs Ren Amamiya (Persona 5)
Amon (Lufia: The Legend Returns) vs Elc (Arc the Lad II)

Heavy

Aima (Lufia: The Legend Returns) vs Fauxnel (Valkyrie Profile: Covenant of the Plume)
Trainer P (Final Fantasy X-2) vs Camilla (Fire Emblem: Fates)

Middle

Leonara (Final Fantasy IV: The After Years) vs Lyon (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones)
Rowen J. Ilbert (Tales of Xillia) vs Cathari (Suikoden V)

Light

Bard (Final Fantasy V) vs Bowser (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)
Corselia (Suikoden Tactics) vs Lucius (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)
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SnowFire

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Re: Futurama 2018 Week 4
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2018, 01:42:48 AM »
Rowen J. Ilbert (Tales of Xillia) vs Cathari (Suikoden V)

I assume he just gets gunned down?  Cathari's magic resist is terrible, but Rowen is largely elemental and Cathari can equip some elemental resistance gear, and I think she might 2HKO here without even need for critz.

--

Satanail (Star Ocean: The Last Hope) vs Ren Amamiya (Persona 5)
For the infamous match of no votes, some commentary from IRC...

[22:03] <+SnowFire> (for all that the FLAVOR of that match is obvious, Joker fixes the localization typo and turns Satanael into his Persona in a cutscene, and it turns out he's a giant magic robot with a gun for reasons)
[22:04] <%CmdrKing> I figured it was less a localization flub and more Star Ocean deciding fuck you we wanna weird.
[22:06] <+RandomKesaranPasaran> mm
[22:07] <+RandomKesaranPasaran> well even if so looking at stat topic it seems pretty out of joker's favor
[22:18] <+SnowFire> I have no idea how good those list of 25% statuses are.  Sounds like the form that has the status gem has pretty terrible HP too by DL scaling standards so it's only getting 1 turn if it can't land a bad enough status.
[22:18] <+RandomKesaranPasaran> doesn't really matter
[22:18] <+SnowFire> Joker was not a bad enough dude to rescue the Prime Minister elect?
[22:20] <+RandomKesaranPasaran> i mean i assume he has to drop into something that doesn't null phys in order to heal, which is a thing that's probably going to happen
[22:20] <+RandomKesaranPasaran> and uh if he doesn't immune phys he sort of gets splattered by some evil combo
[22:22] <+SnowFire> I just remember that in the old DL tournament, there was Relm vs. Pikachu once.  A rare excuse to srs hype Fake Mustache Control strats.
[22:22] <+SnowFire> This one seems similar!  (if you squint.  don't take me too seriously.  maybe.)
[22:22] <+RandomKesaranPasaran> and god help joker if you think lolshitsune is out of range for him
[22:24] <+RandomKesaranPasaran> it's not like he can buff his way out of trouble because VOID
[22:27] <+SnowFire> Are NeoExdeath and Satanail really the same person?  Stay tuned after the commercial break to find out.

So yeah, Void seems kinda good in this match-up.  But who knows, so is an excuse for magic giant robot with a revolver.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 01:47:15 AM by SnowFire »
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Random Consonant

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Re: Futurama 2018 Week 4
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2018, 04:58:45 AM »
Godlike

Satanail (Star Ocean: The Last Hope) vs Ren Amamiya (Persona 5) - no actual vote due to no SO4 but see Snowfire's post, Satanail having some okayish NE magic is probably not what Joker wants to see if that HP pool is anywhere near as good as it looks.
Amon (Lufia: The Legend Returns) vs Elc (Arc the Lad II) - yeah my respect for AtL2 speed isn't here today.

Heavy

Aima (Lufia: The Legend Returns) vs Fauxnel (Valkyrie Profile: Covenant of the Plume) - Suspend Motion probably claims another victim or something, can't say I care enough to make sure if this is right or not.

Light

Bard (Final Fantasy V) vs Bowser (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)
Corselia (Suikoden Tactics) vs Lucius (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword) - Looking at the stat topic Corselia roughly halves average magic damage (which Lucius is with Divine) before water tiles are in play.  That probably doesn't work out too well considering her healing, as well as her luck stat making crit hype... not very reasonable here.  Lucius does have counters in his favor, at least, but it probably doesn't help him that much.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 06:33:46 PM by Random Consonant »
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Futurama 2018 Week 4
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2018, 05:27:36 AM »
Heavy

Trainer P (Final Fantasy X-2) vs Camilla (Fire Emblem: Fates): Sadly, Petrify Flurry does its thing again.

Middle

Leonara (Final Fantasy IV: The After Years) vs Lyon (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones): Reflect I suppose.

Light

Bard (Final Fantasy V) vs Bowser (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars): Bowser can't block either Confuse or Stop.
Corselia (Suikoden Tactics) vs Lucius (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword): Copying Random.
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Pyro

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Re: Futurama 2018 Week 4
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2018, 01:22:30 PM »
Godlike

Satanail (Star Ocean: The Last Hope) vs Ren Amamiya (Persona 5)
Amon (Lufia: The Legend Returns) vs Elc (Arc the Lad II): Amon's got 138% ITD overkill off "+2.25 stdev speed. Elc has 122% HP and similar speed. You COULD have a giant speed boost on one of 7 pcs v Amon. If Elc is under Invincible he will want to smack Amon with Crescent axe physicals (Light element). Amon can heal 3% a turn or 6% per Invincible castimg. With the weakness smacking Elc could win but he would have to go first.

Heavy

Aima (Lufia: The Legend Returns) vs Fauxnel (Valkyrie Profile: Covenant of the Plume): Stop stopping things!
Trainer P (Final Fantasy X-2) vs Camilla (Fire Emblem: Fates)

Middle

Leonara (Final Fantasy IV: The After Years) vs Lyon (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones)
Rowen J. Ilbert (Tales of Xillia) vs Cathari (Suikoden V) Haha no.

Light

Bard (Final Fantasy V) vs Bowser (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)
Corselia (Suikoden Tactics) vs Lucius (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)
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superaielman

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Re: Futurama 2018 Week 4
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2018, 11:34:06 AM »
Godlike

Amon (Lufia: The Legend Returns) vs Elc (Arc the Lad II)- Not at all inclined to respect any arguments that involve Elc going first. Amon goes first and does his thing.

Heavy

Aima (Lufia: The Legend Returns) vs Fauxnel (Valkyrie Profile: Covenant of the Plume)- No starting IP.

Middle

Leonara (Final Fantasy IV: The After Years) vs Lyon (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones)- Reflect.
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Tide

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Re: Futurama 2018 Week 4
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2018, 04:18:43 PM »
Middle
Rowen J. Ilbert (Tales of Xillia) vs Cathari (Suikoden V) - Cathari goes first for sure and definitely 2HKOs. So Rowen's only shot is hoping that her bad M.Def means he can one shot her on the one turn he gets. As Snowfire notes, Cathari does get some access to elemental resistant equipment so this feels pretty open and shut.

Light
Bard (Final Fantasy V) vs Bowser (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars) - Faster and effectively locks down with Stop for sure. Confuse works too.
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Dhyerwolf

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Re: Futurama 2018 Week 4
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2018, 03:22:21 AM »
Godlike
Amon (Lufia: The Legend Returns) vs Elc (Arc the Lad II)

Heavy
Aima (Lufia: The Legend Returns) vs Fauxnel (Valkyrie Profile: Covenant of the Plume)- Huh, Aima won last round? Well, not this one

Middle
Leonara (Final Fantasy IV: The After Years) vs Lyon (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones)- Funny because even if you let Lyon just sit, Leonara just would Reflect and then trigger the counters off Reflect

Light

Bard (Final Fantasy V) vs Bowser (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)- So, Bard's main trick is basically having a variation on the trick that propelled Edgar to a Heavy championship?
Corselia (Suikoden Tactics) vs Lucius (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)
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DjinnAndTonic

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Re: Futurama 2018 Week 4
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2018, 04:19:53 AM »
Godlike

Satanail (Star Ocean: The Last Hope) vs Ren Amamiya (Persona 5) - Hey, I have actually played both of these games. I dunno how most people take SO-style bosses, but my kneejerk reaction is 'Ren can be all kinds of broken, but he can only be one kind of broken per turn.' Satanail has general speed, bulk, and pressure that overpowers PCs if they leave any openings.
Amon (Lufia: The Legend Returns) vs Elc (Arc the Lad II)

Heavy

Aima (Lufia: The Legend Returns) vs Fauxnel (Valkyrie Profile: Covenant of the Plume)
Trainer P (Final Fantasy X-2) vs Camilla (Fire Emblem: Fates) - can't wait for the status-slinger finale~

Middle

Leonara (Final Fantasy IV: The After Years) vs Lyon (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones) - FF4TAY skillsets are shockingly good. (pssst, FFD has the same skillsets, play FFD!)
Rowen J. Ilbert (Tales of Xillia) vs Cathari (Suikoden V)

Light

Bard (Final Fantasy V) vs Bowser (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)
Corselia (Suikoden Tactics) vs Lucius (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword) - the surprise of this tourney to me has been how good Corselia ended up.
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Futurama 2018 Week 4
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2018, 05:01:15 AM »
Comparing Bard to Edgar is a bit of a stretch. Bard's version isn't 100%, so she really wants her opponent to kill themselves quickly or to be vulnerable to Stop as well. If either status is blocked, or if the target has good enough MDef/status resistance to interfere with her game, she ends up terrible because damage/durability are both atrocious.

I think the Low Light I gave her in the stat topic is an overreaction but there's rather little question she belongs somewhere in the division and she's gonna get wrecked by Corselia next round.
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074

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Re: Futurama 2018 Week 4
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2018, 08:27:25 AM »
Bard (Final Fantasy V) vs Bowser (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars) - if Bowser lacks legal statusblockers, then he's screwed.  He's not resisting that off of raw stats and Bards are pretty damned fast.  He's getting confuse-locked/stop-locked for certain.
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Dhyerwolf

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Re: Futurama 2018 Week 4
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2018, 09:15:23 PM »
Quote from: Dark Holy Elf on May 15, 2018, 05:01:15 AM
Comparing Bard to Edgar is a bit of a stretch. Bard's version isn't 100%, so she really wants her opponent to kill themselves quickly or to be vulnerable to Stop as well. If either status is blocked, or if the target has good enough MDef/status resistance to interfere with her game, she ends up terrible because damage/durability are both atrocious.

I think the Low Light I gave her in the stat topic is an overreaction but there's rather little question she belongs somewhere in the division and she's gonna get wrecked by Corselia next round.

Oh, I guess Bard looks worse if you see Mdef worsening status accuracy (I generally don't minus for a few games). Bard's is still 99% accurate right? Or did evasion stats exist in FF 5? I guess with my prorations it wouldn't be 99% regardless, but I don't have notes on that for FF 5.
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Random Consonant

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Re: Futurama 2018 Week 4
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2018, 09:54:44 PM »
Mm?  Mdef/luck do influence magical status accuracy in ST (yes, I tested to make absolutely sure of this, so don't even start with me here) but the effect is fairly weak (I mean, you basically don't notice ingame because most status attempts have such high accuracy to begin with and a fair few enemies have some status resistance on top of this, plus some people with good mdef have trashy luck and vice versa) and even in Corselia's case (who along with Flare should be the best at resisting magical status) it should only drop Bard to 80-85% or so assuming you don't prorate for immunities or anything like that, so I'm a little skeptical of Corselia wrecking Bard myself here unless there's something I'm forgetting (she may well do it if you do prorate for immunities).
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 09:59:54 PM by Random Consonant »
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Futurama 2018 Week 4
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2018, 12:11:28 AM »
Both enemy level and status evade reduce FF5 status accuracy so "99% base" really means something closer to 70-80%.

FF5 status accuracy is super-variable depending on enemy (unlike FF6) so I'm not down with any interp that says "only casts with magic evade can reduce it" when that's a very small proportion of DL casts. MDef remains my go-to stat for checking magical status but if you have a case for a better one in this case I'm all ears.

Doesn't water panel regen wreck Bard? Unless Corselia is very good at killing herself but I... doubt that.
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Random Consonant

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Re: Futurama 2018 Week 4
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2018, 01:16:56 AM »
It would if she can apply it before getting confused (Bard is faster but it does sound like confusion would be turn 2 to me, so she can), but unless FF5 confusion also shuts down evasion (I don't remember if it does or not, none of the stat topics seem to say, and I don't really feeling like FAQing it) Corselia is so terrible at killing herself that she can't even hit herself (though, dropping Dodge might help there).  Elemental terrain only lasts 5 turns to boot so she does need to be able to.

Of course, if Bard's confusion/stop is 70-80% in actuality and Corselia can actually hit herself out of confusion then she cruises easily.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 01:55:17 AM by Random Consonant »
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Futurama 2018 Week 4
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2018, 02:28:36 AM »
Confused targets are auto-hit by physical attacks (even ones with sub-100 hit), as are sleeping and paralysed ones, but not stopped ones. I'll add that note to the stat thread at some point, it could definitely use better status notes. Good catch.

I didn't realise panel healing wore off. Or rather I probably did at some point but my memory of ST isn't very good.

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DragonKnight Zero

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Re: Futurama 2018 Week 4
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2018, 01:05:38 AM »
I favor using the defender's stat for status evasion for the most part.  For stuff like FFT or FF8, this is magic defense.  For FF6 and FF9, it's M. Block.  For Wild Arms 3, I'll use the actual Luck stat (Normal by default).  And so on.  Games like CT and Lufia 2 do not appear to have any status evasion statistic so it would come down to mood.  Endgame hit rates I ignore for FF5 in duels.  Both because enemy magic evade is inflated in the final dungeon and because they're typically higher level (where level differences do affect accuracy) whereas duels I'll treat the duellers as equal leveled in most cases.

  It's a good thing that we have different viewpoints, by the way.  If everyone here thought exactly alike, voting would feel superfluous as the first vote would be the outcome.
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Cmdr_King

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Re: Futurama 2018 Week 4
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2018, 01:08:33 AM »
Godlike

Satanail (Star Ocean: The Last Hope)- i vs Ren Amamiya (Persona 5)
Amon (Lufia: The Legend Returns)- iiii vs Elc (Arc the Lad II)

Heavy

Aima (Lufia: The Legend Returns) vs Fauxnel (Valkyrie Profile: Covenant of the Plume)- iiiii
Trainer P (Final Fantasy X-2)- ii vs Camilla (Fire Emblem: Fates)

Middle

Leonara (Final Fantasy IV: The After Years)- iiii vs Lyon (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones)
Rowen J. Ilbert (Tales of Xillia) vs Cathari (Suikoden V)- iii

Light

Bard (Final Fantasy V)- iiiiii vs Bowser (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars)
Corselia (Suikoden Tactics)- iiii vs Lucius (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)
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