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Author Topic: RPGDL 2020 Season 1, Week 3  (Read 1947 times)

Cmdr_King

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RPGDL 2020 Season 1, Week 3
« on: March 24, 2020, 11:35:40 AM »
Godlike

Ryu (Breath of Fire III) vs Riou (Suikoden II)
Rupert Dandridge (Wild ARMs XF) vs Cloud of Darkness (Final Fantasy III)
Marino (Mega Man X Command Mission) vs Isolde Schelling (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis)
Victoria (Bravely Default) vs Cidolfas Orlandu (Final Fantasy Tactics)

Heavy

Rosa Farrell (Final Fantasy IV) vs Red (SaGa Frontier)
Hugo (Suikoden III) vs Galcian (Skies of Arcadia)
Keith Valentine (Shadow Hearts) vs Purim (Secret of Mana)
Knight (Final Fantasy) vs Celes Cher (Final Fantasy VI)

Middle

Cleo (Suikoden) vs Gaff Gafgarion (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Tharja (Fire Emblem Awakening) vs Lloyd Irving (Tales of Symphonia)
Karsh (Chrono Cross) vs Rinoa Heartlilly (Final Fantasy VIII)
White Rose (SaGa Frontier) vs Freya Crescent (Final Fantasy IX)

Light

Saleh (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones) vs Kain Highwind (Final Fantasy IV)
Elementalist (Wild ARMs XF) vs Mustadio Bunansa (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Chu-Chu (Xenogears) vs Tricia (Soul Nomad & The World Eaters)
Soren (Fire Emblem Series) vs Serra (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)
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074

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Re: RPGDL 2020 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2020, 01:39:41 PM »
Heavy

Knight (Final Fantasy) vs Celes Cher (Final Fantasy VI) - Good news for Knight, I don't give Celes access to Meteor.  Bad news, she probably won't need it.  Transformative status is not a thing in FF1 outside of petrify, so he doesn't have a good way to block Imp.

Light

Saleh (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones) vs Kain Highwind (Final Fantasy IV) - Kneejerk here, but Kain goes first, already has decent magic durability, Jump has an actual use here in halving the number of counters he faces, and he resists the elemental spells that Saleh would use.  Also, Saleh is a frail FE mage, news at 11. [EDIT]: Doubling down on this now that Jump apparently ignores counters.  That *really* takes the bite out of Saleh here.
Chu-Chu (Xenogears) vs Tricia (Soul Nomad & The World Eaters) - This one's actually a bit tougher.  I'm willing to put Chu-Chu as neutral affinity here (splitting the difference on her advantage versus casters but disadvantage versus Beast types).  ...however, her best damage (which is still 50% of the cast average) in most cases will run into Tricia's RES.  And her best nonmagical damage hits for about a third of that at base.  ...furthermore, both have miserable damage in this scenario.  ...I would say heal-locking is possible, but Tricia would rather wait for a double (it will happen, Chu-Chu is slower, can't counter and is going to, what, 18HKO average?), pop High Ground and throw out two specials there.  That should be enough to kill the small pink fluffy thing.  Almost thought Chu-Chu might have won this by attrition.  Possibly Tricia's hardest match this season unless she somehow fights Kain in the finals. [EDIT] Of course, if you take Chu-Chu as a pure caster then it's an absolute curbstomp

...why the hell did i spend so long analyzing the Light matches
« Last Edit: March 25, 2020, 08:23:55 PM by 074 »
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Pyro

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Re: RPGDL 2020 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2020, 04:35:05 PM »
Godlike

Ryu (Breath of Fire III) vs Riou (Suikoden II): No holy res.
Rupert Dandridge (Wild ARMs XF) vs Cloud of Darkness (Final Fantasy III)
Marino (Mega Man X Command Mission) vs Isolde Schelling (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis)
Victoria (Bravely Default) vs Cidolfas Orlandu (Final Fantasy Tactics): I suppose?

Heavy

Rosa Farrell (Final Fantasy IV) vs Red (SaGa Frontier): Status immune fast 2HKOs/OHKOs
Hugo (Suikoden III) vs Galcian (Skies of Arcadia): Nom nom PC
Keith Valentine (Shadow Hearts) vs Purim (Secret of Mana): Burninate?
Knight (Final Fantasy) vs Celes Cher (Final Fantasy VI)

Middle

Cleo (Suikoden) vs Gaff Gafgarion (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Tharja (Fire Emblem Awakening) vs Lloyd Irving (Tales of Symphonia): *Hypes Knockdown negating counters*
Karsh (Chrono Cross) vs Rinoa Heartlilly (Final Fantasy VIII):
White Rose (SaGa Frontier) vs Freya Crescent (Final Fantasy IX)

Light

Saleh (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones) vs Kain Highwind (Final Fantasy IV): Elemental res?
Elementalist (Wild ARMs XF) vs Mustadio Bunansa (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Chu-Chu (Xenogears) vs Tricia (Soul Nomad & The World Eaters)
Soren (Fire Emblem Series) vs Serra (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)
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Random Consonant

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Re: RPGDL 2020 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2020, 07:54:29 PM »
Godlike

Ryu (Breath of Fire III) vs Riou (Suikoden II)
Victoria (Bravely Default) vs Cidolfas Orlandu (Final Fantasy Tactics) - Probably correct to me.

Heavy

Rosa Farrell (Final Fantasy IV) vs Red (SaGa Frontier)
Keith Valentine (Shadow Hearts) vs Purim (Secret of Mana)
Knight (Final Fantasy) vs Celes Cher (Final Fantasy VI)

Middle

Cleo (Suikoden) vs Gaff Gafgarion (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Tharja (Fire Emblem Awakening) vs Lloyd Irving (Tales of Symphonia)
Karsh (Chrono Cross) vs Rinoa Heartlilly (Final Fantasy VIII)
White Rose (SaGa Frontier) vs Freya Crescent (Final Fantasy IX)

Light

Saleh (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones) vs Kain Highwind (Final Fantasy IV) - Uh you people do realize that FE8 sages have access to light magic and thus Kain's resists aren't actually a thing here right?  So unless you're hyping Jump as uncounterable by mages (or let Kain double with it I guess since Saleh would probably need to resort to Divine here and what that does to his AS is gross) Saleh will still get too many shots in since Kain doesn't 2HKO.
Elementalist (Wild ARMs XF) vs Mustadio Bunansa (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Chu-Chu (Xenogears) vs Tricia (Soul Nomad & The World Eaters) - Pretty sure I take Chu-chu as a caster so yeah.
Soren (Fire Emblem Series) vs Serra (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword) - Partial WTA blunts Serra's evade some and she has something like 2/3rds his damage while not having significantly better magic durability.  Plus, y'know, this'll go on long enough that Adept is actually worth consideration.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 08:52:48 PM by Random Consonant »
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: RPGDL 2020 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2020, 08:27:37 PM »
Godlike

Ryu (Breath of Fire III) vs Riou (Suikoden II): Riou is faster and Ryu doesn't resist holy, yep.
Rupert Dandridge (Wild ARMs XF) vs Cloud of Darkness (Final Fantasy III): Saved by Haste, I think. Double hasted physicals do 1.4 PCHP which likely kills Rupert (and if it doesn't, Lightning on turn 1 to chip a little is an option). This should keep her from eating a notable Maximum Risk.
Marino (Mega Man X Command Mission) vs Isolde Schelling (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis): Yeah I don't think Marino has the gas needed for this. Isolde durability was respectable enough.
Victoria (Bravely Default) vs Cidolfas Orlandu (Final Fantasy Tactics): Double Dark seems kinda brutal? Cid can barely survive it if he optimises for HP, though. And Night Sword still does its thing even then.

Heavy

Rosa Farrell (Final Fantasy IV) vs Red (SaGa Frontier): Blink should do its thing... unless Rosa is more frail than I expect? Not up for parsing FF4 durability today. EDIT: Blink does in fact not do its thing, see below.
Keith Valentine (Shadow Hearts) vs Purim (Secret of Mana): Yep.
Knight (Final Fantasy) vs Celes Chere (Final Fantasy VI): Protect/evade buy her time even if Imp is seen as inaccurate.

Middle

Cleo (Suikoden) vs Gaff Gafgarion (Final Fantasy Tactics): Yeah, the days of me allowing Gafgarion things like Flame Shields and White Robes are long gone.
Karsh (Chrono Cross) vs Rinoa Heartlilly (Final Fantasy VIII): 2HKOs, isn't 2HKOed.
White Rose (SaGa Frontier) vs Freya Crescent (Final Fantasy IX): Surely. Freya might have some argument involving MP draining but if she goes for that it just leaves her vulnerable to mystic weapon nonsense.

Light

Saleh (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones) vs Kain Highwind (Final Fantasy IV): Saved by being one of the only FEs where sages have light magic.
Elementalist (Wild ARMs XF) vs Mustadio Bunansa (Final Fantasy Tactics): 2HKOs.
Chu-Chu (Xenogears) vs Tricia (Soul Nomad & The World Eaters): Probably.
Soren (Fire Emblem Series) vs Serra (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword): Serra's advantages are definitely blunted by the weapon triangle here.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 04:18:40 PM by Dark Holy Elf »
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Pyro

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Re: RPGDL 2020 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2020, 10:37:12 PM »
Did Red's relevant attacks ignore evade?
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: RPGDL 2020 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2020, 10:51:08 PM »
Yes, it did. That said, did FF4 have any evade-ignoring attacks, and does Blink fail against those? (My recollection says no to the former, but am not certain.) Because if Blink covers all enemy physicals in FF4, I'm inclined to let it cover all enemy physicals in the DL.

EDIT: As a further data-point, Re-Al-Phoenix is vulnerable to GlassShield, ShadowServant, and WallRune, so the case for it going through a status which stops one (or in this case two) hits feels pretty weak to me, barring evidence in FF4 to the contrary. That said, you could make the case that something else in his physical skillset might?
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 11:56:24 PM by Dark Holy Elf »
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Re: RPGDL 2020 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2020, 02:39:24 AM »
I dunno, I'm all for making ITE a relative concept but absence of evidence isn't the same as evidence of absence and I'm certainly not going to use it an excuse to say a thing gets SRW Alert type privledges.  That said I'm not sure why this matters?  Rosa is something like 0.74 pdur which is OHKO'd by Re-Al Phoenix anyways and she goes second.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2020, 02:43:17 AM by Random Consonant »
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Pyro

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Re: RPGDL 2020 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2020, 02:53:04 AM »
I actually think nothing gets through Blink at all yeah. It's just "Take two physical hits".

The only question remaining I suppose would be "Does Red OHKO? and... maybe, since Rosa's defense is poor?
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: RPGDL 2020 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2020, 05:13:06 AM »
Random: Where do you get 0.74? Meeple's FF4a stat thread calls Rosa 0.804 pdur (well, the reciprocal of that, actually, but in modern terms...) and Red does 0.800 PCHP by the Saga kill point I use, so it's certainly very close. I vote on FF4o which has a slightly lower def and HP average so if anything Rosa should be a bit safer to me.
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Re: RPGDL 2020 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2020, 06:42:41 AM »
I was using Dhyer's topic, which puts her at taking ~21% extra from physicals with partial row factoring (other figures make her look considerably worse).  Although some of that is factoring evasion into durability numbers which I'm not sure I'm okay with but FF4 has a better case for it than most but that would actually help Rosa here so I guess Rosa's surival would be close enough in practice.

Also yeah on checking FAQs there's nothing that specifies whether or not Blink cares about whether or not an attack is evadeable or not so unless someone specifically tested Aim and saw that it bypassed it I guess it really should be seen as that good.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2020, 06:56:07 AM by Random Consonant »
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superaielman

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Re: RPGDL 2020 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2020, 01:31:51 PM »
Godlike

Ryu (Breath of Fire III) vs Riou (Suikoden II)- Ryu can't resist holy? Sucks for him.
Victoria (Bravely Default) vs Cidolfas Orlandu (Final Fantasy Tactics)

Heavy

Rosa Farrell (Final Fantasy IV) vs Red (SaGa Frontier)- Rosa's a bit more fragile than Meeple's topic indicates; she really hates that the White Robe and Heroine Robe aren't legal. Blink gets 255% accuracy attacks in game, for what it's worth. It should get Re-Al. E: N/m blink doesn't get FF4's ITE skills. Rosa toast.

(The White Robe is actually really damn good on Cecil for Zeromus and in general; Crystal armor blocking berserk stinks.)

Hugo (Suikoden III) vs Galcian (Skies of Arcadia)- Eternum is bad news here.
Keith Valentine (Shadow Hearts) vs Purim (Secret of Mana)
Knight (Final Fantasy) vs Celes Cher (Final Fantasy VI)- Surely.

Middle

Cleo (Suikoden) vs Gaff Gafgarion (Final Fantasy Tactics)- No Fire Rune.
Karsh (Chrono Cross) vs Rinoa Heartlilly (Final Fantasy VIII)
White Rose (SaGa Frontier) vs Freya Crescent (Final Fantasy IX)

Light

Saleh (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones) vs Kain Highwind (Final Fantasy IV)- Jump ignores all counters in game. So does Build Up/Dark Wave/Aim; it's one of the reasons they're all useful at times. Think he's better enough otherwise.
Elementalist (Wild ARMs XF) vs Mustadio Bunansa (Final Fantasy Tactics)- Elementalist can't use spells and attack in the same turn. I am so holding that against her in this fight, Mustadio can kite her forever with guns. It's a massive drawback of her in game and a huge advantage of Mustadio's in game; see no reason to take it away here.


Chu-Chu (Xenogears) vs Tricia (Soul Nomad & The World Eaters)- Even if I don't see Chu-Chu as a mage type, eh yeah. She's too much for Light if you aren't exploiting her weaknesses.
Soren (Fire Emblem Series) vs Serra (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)- Serra doesn't have a way of ignoring Soren's res.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 02:34:56 PM by superaielman »
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Re: RPGDL 2020 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2020, 03:28:06 PM »
Did Row become moot in FF4 if the front row died, and the back row would then take full damage?
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: RPGDL 2020 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2020, 03:55:00 PM »
That's not how row works in FF generally (unless the Sakaguchi's Mistwalker games count!). I don't think FF4 is an exception, but I'm not certain.
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Re: RPGDL 2020 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2020, 07:46:30 PM »
It certainly didn't (although since Re-Al Phoenix is ranged it doesn't matter here).
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superaielman

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Re: RPGDL 2020 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2020, 12:05:58 PM »
Triplechecked, blink does not stop Kick and Dark Wave. True for the PC and boss versions of the skill.
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Luther Lansfeld

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Re: RPGDL 2020 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2020, 12:25:27 AM »
Godlike

Ryu (Breath of Fire III) vs Riou (Suikoden II)
Rupert Dandridge (Wild ARMs XF) vs Cloud of Darkness (Final Fantasy III)
Marino (Mega Man X Command Mission) vs Isolde Schelling (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis)
Victoria (Bravely Default) vs Cidolfas Orlandu (Final Fantasy Tactics)

Heavy

Rosa Farrell (Final Fantasy IV) vs Red (SaGa Frontier)
Hugo (Suikoden III) vs Galcian (Skies of Arcadia)
Keith Valentine (Shadow Hearts) vs Purim (Secret of Mana)
Knight (Final Fantasy) vs Celes Cher (Final Fantasy VI)

Middle

Cleo (Suikoden) vs Gaff Gafgarion (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Tharja (Fire Emblem Awakening) vs Lloyd Irving (Tales of Symphonia)
Karsh (Chrono Cross) vs Rinoa Heartlilly (Final Fantasy VIII)
White Rose (SaGa Frontier) vs Freya Crescent (Final Fantasy IX)

Light

Saleh (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones) vs Kain Highwind (Final Fantasy IV)
Elementalist (Wild ARMs XF) vs Mustadio Bunansa (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Chu-Chu (Xenogears) vs Tricia (Soul Nomad & The World Eaters)
Soren (Fire Emblem Series) vs Serra (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)
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Cmdr_King

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Re: RPGDL 2020 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2020, 12:32:46 AM »
Godlike

Ryu (Breath of Fire III) vs Riou (Suikoden II)
Rupert Dandridge (Wild ARMs XF) vs Cloud of Darkness (Final Fantasy III)
Marino (Mega Man X Command Mission) vs Isolde Schelling (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis)
Victoria (Bravely Default) vs Cidolfas Orlandu (Final Fantasy Tactics)

Heavy

Rosa Farrell (Final Fantasy IV) vs Red (SaGa Frontier)
Hugo (Suikoden III) vs Galcian (Skies of Arcadia)
Keith Valentine (Shadow Hearts) vs Purim (Secret of Mana)
Knight (Final Fantasy) vs Celes Cher (Final Fantasy VI)

Middle

Cleo (Suikoden) vs Gaff Gafgarion (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Tharja (Fire Emblem Awakening) vs Lloyd Irving (Tales of Symphonia)- I thiiiink?  I don't really wanna crunch these numbers if I'm honest.
Karsh (Chrono Cross) vs Rinoa Heartlilly (Final Fantasy VIII)
White Rose (SaGa Frontier) vs Freya Crescent (Final Fantasy IX)

Light

Saleh (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones) vs Kain Highwind (Final Fantasy IV)
Elementalist (Wild ARMs XF) vs Mustadio Bunansa (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Chu-Chu (Xenogears) vs Tricia (Soul Nomad & The World Eaters)
Soren (Fire Emblem Series) vs Serra (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: RPGDL 2020 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2020, 01:10:20 AM »
Jump doesn't ignore all counters, Valvalis certainly counters it with a physical. I suspect FF4 counters have different triggers and it would be far from the first FF where there are some things that only counter Fight and not special commands.
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Re: RPGDL 2020 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2020, 06:46:17 AM »
Rupert Dandridge (Wild ARMs XF) vs Cloud of Darkness (Final Fantasy III)
Victoria (Bravely Default) vs Cidolfas Orlandu (Final Fantasy Tactics)

Heavy

Hugo (Suikoden III) vs Galcian (Skies of Arcadia)
Keith Valentine (Shadow Hearts) vs Purim (Secret of Mana)
I think Purim is official Prim now, FWIW.
Knight (Final Fantasy) vs Celes Cher (Final Fantasy VI)

Middle

Cleo (Suikoden) vs Gaff Gafgarion (Final Fantasy Tactics)
Tharja (Fire Emblem Awakening) vs Lloyd Irving (Tales of Symphonia)
Tharja is having her darkness spells halved, but she can just use Bolganone instead.  Lloyd might have some sort of corner case speed argument as well depending on how much you hold the two sluggy mages against the cast.  Not super inclined to buy knockdown = no counters, so even with elemental nonsense, suspect Lloyd is in for an uphill battle - even halved Nosferatu counters should reduce his damage in the early turns, then switch to Fire to go for the kill and also threaten Vengeance.  Close though.
Karsh (Chrono Cross) vs Rinoa Heartlilly (Final Fantasy VIII)

Light

Saleh (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones) vs Kain Highwind (Final Fantasy IV)
While thematically it seems like Jump should ignore counters, it doesn't seem to actually.
Elementalist (Wild ARMs XF) vs Mustadio Bunansa (Final Fantasy Tactics)
I'll buy run-and-gun hype, it'd work in both systems.
Soren (Fire Emblem Series) vs Serra (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)
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Cmdr_King

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Re: RPGDL 2020 Season 1, Week 3
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2020, 10:18:46 PM »
Godlike

Ryu (Breath of Fire III) vs Riou (Suikoden II)- iiiiii
Rupert Dandridge (Wild ARMs XF)- i vs Cloud of Darkness (Final Fantasy III)- iii
Marino (Mega Man X Command Mission) vs Isolde Schelling (Mana Khemia: Alchemists of Al-Revis)- iii
Victoria (Bravely Default) vs Cidolfas Orlandu (Final Fantasy Tactics)- iiiiiii

Heavy

Rosa Farrell (Final Fantasy IV) vs Red (SaGa Frontier)- iiiiii
Hugo (Suikoden III) vs Galcian (Skies of Arcadia)- iiii
Keith Valentine (Shadow Hearts) vs Purim (Secret of Mana)- iiiiii
Knight (Final Fantasy) vs Celes Cher (Final Fantasy VI)- iiiiiiii

Middle

Cleo (Suikoden)- iiiii vs Gaff Gafgarion (Final Fantasy Tactics)- ii
Tharja (Fire Emblem Awakening)- iii vs Lloyd Irving (Tales of Symphonia)
Karsh (Chrono Cross)- iiiiiii vs Rinoa Heartlilly (Final Fantasy VIII)
White Rose (SaGa Frontier)- iiiii vs Freya Crescent (Final Fantasy IX)

Light

Saleh (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones)- iiii vs Kain Highwind (Final Fantasy IV)- iiii [5:18 PM] BOT RPBot: @CmdrKing rolled 1.
Elementalist (Wild ARMs XF)- iii vs Mustadio Bunansa (Final Fantasy Tactics)- iii 5:17 PM] BOT RPBot: @CmdrKing rolled 2.
Chu-Chu (Xenogears) vs Tricia (Soul Nomad & The World Eaters)- iiiiiii
Soren (Fire Emblem Series)- iiiiii vs Serra (Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword)
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