Author Topic: Return of the Twink League - Round 4!  (Read 3805 times)

Excal

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Return of the Twink League - Round 4!
« on: July 02, 2008, 07:17:25 AM »
And so it came to pass, that having entered the Valley of the Jogurts, the trio of Ilia did fight for three days and three nights and betwixt them, they did slay the Jogurts which opposed them, until the skies rained blood, the ground was covered with mountains of the dead, and both their wills and their weapons were alike shattered and spent.  And lo, it was then, without any strength with which to fight, that their final lamentation came upon them as the horde of rodents descended on the pegasus riders.  Why are ground bound fighters so easily able to reach them?


Round #4:

Winners

#1) Belial vs Ash Ketchum

The finest Pokemon Trainer of Johto has yet to face a real challenge in his quest to be the master of the Twink League as well.  With his six overlevelled companions following his lead, he intends to make sure this fight is no different.  However, Belial is no ordinary threat.  Faster than Ash's pokemon, she comes with two lethal surprises that have won her through so far: the Damage nulling Time Distortion, and the auto-ejecting 4-D Pocket.  However, some of Ash's pokemon come packing moves that hit the whole field, ignoring Time Distortion, and his six fighters means that Belial can't stop him from acting simply by spamming 4-D Pocket.  And so, will Ash crush Belial as he heads to a second championship?  Or will the Brionac member fell the Pokemaster?


#2) Ramza vs. Unlimited Indalencio

This plucky hero of Ivalice has shown that he is the greater master of versatility, but now he faces yet another wielder of power, the leader of the divine sages, Indalecio.  Indeed, his mastery of magic extends to all elements, his Divine Wave will force Ramza to keep his distance, and his limiter being AWOL will mean that Ramza can't just go super saian and beat him down before he can use any of that power.  Of course, if there is a weakness in Indalecio's assault, then Ramza is the one to find it, bringing with him the entire skillset of FFT and its storebought equipment.  Can this everyman once more fell the greatest of foes, and show that a little bit of wit and a lot of versatility can best any challenge?


Losers Pool

#1) Yuna vs. Yunalesca

This match has come, and gone, and ended poorly for Yunalesca when it happened.  But now, Yuna's going for it without two trustworthy companions by her side, and having only her Aeons to fall back on.  Can she still best this deliverer of false hope?  Can she still continue on against this most dangerous of foes?  Or will it turn out that she was, in fact, a genius to have so many guardians with her so she didn't actually have to take part in the fight against Yunalesca?


#2) Sephiroth vs. Fei Fong Wong

Have you ever wondered what would happen if you stuck a one-winged pretty boy in leather against a giant God-Mech?  I know I sure have!  And now it's easy to find out!  In one corner, we've got the famed Sephiroth who loves gravity attacks, overkill status attacks, and has an unfortunate tendancy to randomly go squish.  In the other corner, we've got Fei Fong Wong and Xenogears, who love to make things go squish, but don't seem to have any defense against status at all!  And so, whose passion and loves will prove to be stronger in this eternal question?


#3) Brahms  vs. Squall

For Brahms, this battle is simple, he just has to be his usual self, chock full of physical immune goodness as well as that brutal overkill damage we've all come to love.  For Squall, things are a bit different.  Sure, he can pump up his Holy Attack affinity, just like he can pump up his speed and attack, but all he can really hope for is to either hope he can break Brahms' defenses, or just go for broke, cut himself before Brahms can even act, and hope he can trigger a Renzokuken.  Which makes it fortunate that Squall's one of those cold-hearted do anything to get the job done types that could actually contemplate something so painful.


#4) Butz vs. 1337 Jogurts

The power of a chemist is a fearsome thing.  There is no defense so mighty that it can withstand its brutal assault.  No, the only thing that can let one survive is an overpowering offense, swift and brutal, crushing him completely before he can even begin to act.  And that, my friends, is why the first Jogurt that goes up against Butz is screwed beyond belief.  And possibly even the second one.  And with those two by his side, what are the other 1,335 Jogurts going to do that can even begin to pose a threat?  Besides swarming in a ravenous frenzy?


#5) Baofu  vs. Barret

Powered by the sacred Armlet of obscurity, Baofu has managed to avoid elimination thus far, but now he faces a somewhat more dire threat.  While most of his foes have had just one trick up their sleeve that was easy enough to avoid, now he faces someone with TWO tricks up their sleeve.  With the power of Lugh, Barret's insane barrage of counters is completely nullified, and with careful damage management, he might even be able to avoid the wrath of Hammerblow.  Of course, he'll need to be lucky, as the Mystile Barret is equipped with can prove tricky even to the best laid of plans.


#6) Mog vs. Bowman Jean

In an odd alignment of the stars, we have a match between a fighter who cannot be killed, and a fighter that is merely extremely difficult to kill.  Bowman comes into this with an inability to be hurt, the only thing that can kill him is time, and with the Weird Slayer and his healing pills, that means he can last for quite some time with his Bloody Armour.  Mog comes complete with Life 3 to revive him, the Snow Muffler to weaken Bowman's Attacks, and Vanish, to ignore them entirely.  Of course, Ultima is gonna be useless here, and that means Mog's beyond screwed.



Quick Voting Form:

Round #4:

Winners

#1) Belial vs Ash Ketchum
#2) Ramza vs. Unlimited Indalencio

Losers Pool

#1) Yuna vs. Yunalesca
#2) Sephiroth vs. Fei Fong Wong
#3) Brahms  vs. Squall
#4) Butz vs. 1337 Jogurts
#5) Baofu  vs. Barret
#6) Mog vs. Bowman Jean

Laggy

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Re: Return of the Twink League - Round 4!
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2008, 07:35:41 AM »
#1) Belial vs Ash Ketchum
#2) Ramza vs. Unlimited Indalecio - Thinking. If you allow Faith 3, that's an autowin (Abandon setup owns Divine Wave). If you don't... MP Switch owns most of the spells but not Divine Wave. Divine Wave's statii can be blocked by Thief Hat + Jade Armlet. Can't Abandon and MP Switch at the same time, which means "do you see Angel Feather'd Divine Wave doing significant damage or not". Awaiting other input.
EDIT: Feather Boots + MP Switch. Yeah, that handles Indy fine.

#1) Yuna vs. Yunalesca - Gets a turn!
#2) Sephiroth vs. Fei Fong Wong - Pale Horse, Super Nova, beat.
#3) Brahms vs. Squall - Man.
#4) Butz vs. 1337 Jogurts - Kneejerk, all Mixes were ST, apparently. Could be argued.
#5) Baofu  vs. Barret
#6) Mog vs. Bowman Jean - 255 Def! Vanish! This is laughworthy.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2008, 07:15:34 PM by Laggy »
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Return of the Twink League - Round 4!
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2008, 07:44:17 AM »
Winners

#1) Belial vs Ash Ketchum: Belial 4D Pockets them one after another and hopes none of them reappear? Granted they... probably don't. I never thought to test how long 4D lasts, so I can't be sure!
#2) Ramza vs. Unlimited Indalecio: Hum. Well, no Divine Wave respect (yo) means Ramza goes for MP Switch and has a pretty easy win. Assuming you do...

Ramza can come in with low Faith if you allow that, and twink to destroy physicals. Crystal Shield, Abandon, Thief Hat, Jade Armlet should do the trick. Defend and wait for doubleturns, Blind if you see that working (it does get FFT bosses, forget if SO2 had a blind-like status?). Defence Up if you don't see the Defend strategy working. Don't allow the low faith? Same strategy, but no Abandon, and MP Switch is back to block everything but Divine Wave.

Losers Pool

#1) Yuna vs. Yunalesca: Yunalesca's remarkably well-equipped for dealing with aeons in-game. Unfortunately for her most of her aeon-killing moves are ST, so she kind of explodes when faced with the Magus Sisters. Don't allow those and it's a much better fight, but I'd still imagine Yuna can manage thanks to boss scaling.
#2) Sephiroth vs. Fei Fong Wong: First-turn paralysis, or second-turn Pale Horse, whatever ends up working. I don't see Fei OHKOing, XG damage actually wasn't -that- much better than on-foot.
#3) Brahms  vs. Squall: Spoiled?
#4) Butz vs. 1337 Jogurts: Mix doesn't have a single MT move, and Image only protects against two attacks.
#6) Mog vs. Bowman Jean: 255 defence or Vanish.

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Talaysen

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Re: Return of the Twink League - Round 4!
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2008, 07:50:06 AM »
#1) Belial vs Ash Ketchum: Belial 4D Pockets them one after another and hopes none of them reappear? Granted they... probably don't. I never thought to test how long 4D lasts, so I can't be sure!

It's pretty random.  Usually between... five and twenty turns?  Might depend on CT instead of turns or something in which case she can just abuse that to make it more likely she gets a turn after they come back but before they get a turn anyways.

Taishyr

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Re: Return of the Twink League - Round 4!
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2008, 08:16:19 AM »
Forethought on Baofu vs. Barret, being the one who submitted Baofu and thus feeling obligated to comment...
AHAHAHA Baofu dies like a bitch. He can't block Gun-type, can only resist. lawl.

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Re: Return of the Twink League - Round 4!
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2008, 08:58:07 AM »
Winners

#1) Belial vs Ash Ketchum- Unsure. 20 turns doesn't translate to that much in game. On the other hand, how are the Pokemon at getting around Distortion anyways?
#2) Ramza vs. Unlimited Indalencio- Gut says I wouldn't allow Faith changing, so going by Laggy's comment of respecting AF Divine Wave (Since...it's damn solid on regular Indy)

Losers Pool

#1) Yuna vs. Yunalesca
#2) Sephiroth vs. Fei Fong Wong- Wishes he didn't lose his awesome gear that could likely OHKO with System Id.
#3) Brahms  vs. Squall
#4) Butz vs. 1337 Jogurts- Up to 4 Jogurts can attack to me at a time, and he was a lot of healing (Infinite? No?)
#5) Baofu  vs. Barret- What can Baofu use? Does Barret counter status and ID?
#6) Mog vs. Bowman Jean
...into the nightfall.

Taishyr

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Re: Return of the Twink League - Round 4!
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2008, 10:19:29 AM »
On the only persona to resist Gun, Lucifer? He's got dark-elemental 50% ID + okay damage, perfect ID ala Air Anchor (blockable by immunity, natch, but it delays a turn.), some random dark damage (from 10% to 100% PCHP approximately, usually around 30% I wanna say?), and another ID flavor that I haven't tested but going to presume it won't help much.

His other two granted persona have a Holy version of the 50% ID + damage on Lugh, and the dark ID + two status (Berserk, sleep, both semi-bad odds) on Azazel.

No healing on any of the three. From what I understand of Barret's setup, he just kinda mocks the entirety of what Baofu has as he chips him down and kills, unless the status suddenly can become a threat. Sleep's got bad duration, Berserk is permanent but Baofu has to switch to a non-resistant persona to try and inflict it, and doing so doubles the damage dealt by Barret in that time. So um yeah, Baofu can theoretically get past a limit by forcing that, but then the damage from the basic attacks gets ugly and while he's fairly fast with these persona, he's not exceedingly so. So. Uh. Yeah, I'm more likely than not to vote Barret here.

Monkeyfinger

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Re: Return of the Twink League - Round 4!
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2008, 01:33:02 PM »
#1) Belial vs Ash Ketchum
#2) Ramza vs. Unlimited Indalencio: Angel feather divine wave off of unlimited indy is super accurate on top of everything else, a paltry 100% evade isn't going to do anything to it.

Losers Pool

#1) Yuna vs. Yunalesca
#2) Sephiroth vs. Fei Fong Wong: Doesn't Fei start on foot? The paralyzing physical would just own him, no? If I'm wrong Fei wins.
#3) Brahms  vs. Squall
#4) Butz vs. 1337 Jogurts
#6) Mog vs. Bowman Jean

Laggy

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Re: Return of the Twink League - Round 4!
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2008, 04:05:27 PM »
#5) Baofu  vs. Barret- What can Baofu use? Does Barret counter status and ID?

FF7 counterattack counters everything, more or less, including things that whiff you. (Matters, since he has Mystile)
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Tonfa

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Re: Return of the Twink League - Round 4!
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2008, 05:08:51 PM »
#5) Baofu  vs. Barret- What can Baofu use? Does Barret counter status and ID?

FF7 counterattack counters everything, more or less, including things that whiff you. (Matters, since he has Mystile)

Wrong. Counter Attack counters anything that does damage and nothing more. Also, they only stack up to 8. (I think the setup was hyped as having 12 or something absurd)
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SnowFire

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Re: Return of the Twink League - Round 4!
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2008, 06:52:54 PM »
Winners

#1) Belial vs Ash Ketchum - Can't vote on Ash...  but unless I'm totally off, Belial won't/can't use 4D Pocket if somebody has already been Pocketed, right?  As in, there's no danger in-game of Belial going Pocket->Pocket->Pocket->Pocket win?  She certainly only kept one pocketed a time against me.  If this is true, then Belial can pick one Pokemon to store in the Pocket, but she'll have to beat the other 5 fairly.
#2) Ramza vs. Unlimited Indalencio - Tricky.  Depends on if the Ramza evade setup works at stopping DW, since MP Switch won't.  Also, this is an extreme flavor based argument, but maybe the Float Boots would counteract DW (as well as Earthquake)?

Losers Pool

#1) Yuna vs. Yunalesca
#2) Sephiroth vs. Fei Fong Wong - Tentative.  Where's this first-turn paralysis coming from?  I don't see it in the stat topic.  As for Pale Horse, it's turn 2 I believe, and...  I'm not sure it matters?  Assuming human-status ailments can hit you while you're in a mech, I'm not sure Frog or Mini even matter when it's the mech doing the damage (and, flavorwise, it's a mech controlled by mind control rather than pedals & levers).  As for Supernova...  not sure that matters either?  If Confusion hits, Fei probably survives an attack on himself even at 12.5% HP.  Silence, Sadness, and Slow are all kind of irrelevant.
#3) Brahms vs. Squall - Non-magic PWS's still did 1 damage a hit to Brahms, right?  Because Squall will get off a Renzokuken here by junctioning Ultima to Speed.  I just don't think it matters.
#4) Butz vs. 1337 Jogurts
#5) Baofu  vs. Barret
#6) Mog vs. Bowman Jean

Talaysen

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Re: Return of the Twink League - Round 4!
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2008, 06:58:00 PM »
#1) Belial vs Ash Ketchum - Can't vote on Ash...  but unless I'm totally off, Belial won't/can't use 4D Pocket if somebody has already been Pocketed, right?  As in, there's no danger in-game of Belial going Pocket->Pocket->Pocket->Pocket win?  She certainly only kept one pocketed a time against me.

Wrong.  Belial can Pocket multiple PCs just fine in-game.

Laggy

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Re: Return of the Twink League - Round 4!
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2008, 07:14:09 PM »
#2) Ramza vs. Unlimited Indalencio - Tricky.  Depends on if the Ramza evade setup works at stopping DW, since MP Switch won't.  Also, this is an extreme flavor based argument, but maybe the Float Boots would counteract DW (as well as Earthquake)?

Uh... that's a very valid point (Feather Boots). He can just equip those to avoid DW entirely (both damage-wise and status) and then MP Switch will take care of the rest of Indy's arsenal. I certainly see Float as avoiding it ingame... not sure about EQ, but it doesn't matter; Switch handles it. Vote going to Ramza.

Quote from: SnowFire
#2) Sephiroth vs. Fei Fong Wong - Tentative.  Where's this first-turn paralysis coming from?  I don't see it in the stat topic.  As for Pale Horse, it's turn 2 I believe, and...  I'm not sure it matters?  Assuming human-status ailments can hit you while you're in a mech, I'm not sure Frog or Mini even matter when it's the mech doing the damage (and, flavorwise, it's a mech controlled by mind control rather than pedals & levers).  As for Supernova...  not sure that matters either?  If Confusion hits, Fei probably survives an attack on himself even at 12.5% HP.  Silence, Sadness, and Slow are all kind of irrelevant.

1) His physical adds paralysis.
2) Being in a Gear still makes you vulnerable to any sort of status effect that would work on the pilot (Blind, for example, or Confusion). There are examples of this in-game, don't see how this would be any different. Things like Mini/Frog may not matter, no, but Pale Horse is pretty much every status in FF7 ever.
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Monkeyfinger

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Re: Return of the Twink League - Round 4!
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2008, 07:34:55 PM »
Does Fei start in the gear or not?

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Re: Return of the Twink League - Round 4!
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2008, 07:35:19 PM »
Winners

#1) Belial vs Ash Ketchum - Not allowing a 4D Pocket spam... >.>
#2) Ramza vs. Unlimited Indalencio - Even with the low Faith setup, I see Indy as overpowering him.

Losers Pool

#1) Yuna vs. Yunalesca - Aeons on parade! Magus Sisters since we're in the twink league.
#2) Sephiroth vs. Fei Fong Wong - Status'd and done.
#3) Brahms  vs. Squall - Spoiled!
#4) Butz vs. 1337 Jogurts - There are far too many things that -should- be able to kill a hoard of Jogurts, but yet they keep winning...
#5) Baofu  vs. Barret - Spoiled!
#6) Mog vs. Bowman Jean - Spoiled!

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Excal

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Re: Return of the Twink League - Round 4!
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2008, 07:46:19 PM »
Fei does start in Xenogears for his battles here, Monkey.

Also, just as an aside, I'm pretty sure that not touching the ground confers EQ immunity as well in SO2.

Finally, Tonfa, I've noticed your point.  I'm not going to be changing Barret's setup for this tourney (the extra Materia add to his damage if nothing else) but I will be putting some thought into what he might have in the future.

Tide

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Re: Return of the Twink League - Round 4!
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2008, 11:14:09 PM »
Quote
#1) Belial vs Ash Ketchum - Can't vote on Ash...  but unless I'm totally off, Belial won't/can't use 4D Pocket if somebody has already been Pocketed, right?  As in, there's no danger in-game of Belial going Pocket->Pocket->Pocket->Pocket win?  She certainly only kept one pocketed a time against me.  If this is true, then Belial can pick one Pokemon to store in the Pocket, but she'll have to beat the other 5 fairly.

No. She can use 4D Pocket up to a maximum of two times back to back. Tal has already mentioned this, but just thought I would confirm. As for duration...

Belial can control a single pocket for as LONG as she wants to. I've seen it last from start to finish for an entire fight (which is more than 20 turns). I think the minimum number of turns a PC can be held for under a single 4D pocket is 5 however. Take that as you will. If she is going for a back to back pocket, the maximum I've seen her hold it for is 5. Usually, she will return the previous held ally within 1-3 turns however.

As for that match up, if this is GSC Ash, he has...Pika/Espeon/Snorlax/RBY starters? In which case, she OHKOs Pika, Distortion handles Espeon and she probably triple/quadruple turns Snorlax. Worse case scenario, she pockets him. RBY starters can then be taken care of with back to back pockets and she slowly kills off one at a time with distortion in place. She easily has the speed to do this. Which of those have MT aside from Snorlax and possibly Blastoise?
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Tide

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Re: Return of the Twink League - Round 4!
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2008, 01:56:58 AM »
#1) Belial vs Ash Ketchum - Even if you don't allow Belial to spam 4D Pocket on all 6 of them, which of them are actually scary? Pika gets OHKO'd. Snorlax/Venusaur/Charizard don't have MT, so they are all walled by distortion. This leaves Espeon's Swift (... to GSC physical swift) and Blastoise's Surf. Heck, she locks Blastoise in an indefinite state of 4D Pocketness, Tank Crushes Espeon to death and Distortion everyone else >_>

#2) Ramza vs. Unlimited Indalencio - No vote.

Losers Pool
#1) Yuna vs. Yunalesca - I think Elfboy's pretty much covered it. I definitely recall her doing well against Single Aeons! But yeah, I don't see anything wrong with Magus Sisters. So *crush*
#2) Sephiroth vs. Fei Fong Wong - Fei so wishes he had Weltall 2's System ID.
#3) Brahms  vs. Squall - Spoiler'd. Okay, Squall, if he had Meltdown might be able to win this by casting Meltdown first on Brahms. But I am fairly certain, Brahms still splatters with one attack chain. Oops!
#4) Butz vs. 1337 Jogurts - No vote
#5) Baofu  vs. Barret - No vote
#6) Mog vs. Bowman Jean - No vote.
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Dark Holy Elf

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Re: Return of the Twink League - Round 4!
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2008, 02:02:52 AM »
Noted in chat, but not even Snorlax has MT, just Blastoise. And Espeon's laughably weak Swift. (EDIT: Tide's post already mentions this.)

Confirming that Feather Boots would own Earthquake for a number of reasons; they both impart earth immunity in FFT and Earthquake itself misses if a character is so much as jumping in SO2.

Sephiroth's physical has 100% paralysis attached. It's understandable not to notice between said physical often just killing outright and Ribbon use being common in any case.

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