Nyarlathotep's Dungeon: Week 18

[Random Consonant]

Just some stray comments.

*Note to Random Consonant - Lulu doesn't go before Songstress and Lucia if we're factoring in averages, Lulu's nearly the slowest in her cast bar Auron. In fact according to Tonfa's stat topic Songstress is actually above average speed! Granted not by much but still. Lucia isn't the slowest in her cast either - it's Kurando > Yuri = Karin > Lucia = Ana > Joachim > Gepetto (noting that Galed > Lucia is > non fused Yuri/Kurando but eh she has to use a turn to do that hrmm) Eiko is also dead on average speed, faster than Amarant, Vivi and Steiner. It's Eiko's HP that's complete fail not her speed ;

Doesn't matter a whole lot if Songstress is killed.  And she will get killed.  If she tries to shut down Lulu, Yuna just fries her with Holy and unless Lulu is Kongol-level slow (which I doubt), there isn't exactly a whole lot you can do about her getting a turn during the downtime.  And Lulu getting a turn means at least one person dies here.

Ok ... looked more stuff up ...  Covenant has 22 chapters, with 12 being disc end of disc one. Assuming it's a relative split down the middle and end of disc one is midgame. Amon is Chapter 10, which floor would that be?

Looking at chapter numbers alone, probably either Floor 3 or 4, I'd guess.  I'm inclined to say 4 myself, but what do I know?  Somebody with a better grasp of this tell me if this is at all reasonable.

If he isn't then Yuri then probably kills kills Deis with stacked song of madness/rage-(L1 fusion/energy charge, maybe song of madness alone, dunno, leaving Nina easy to deal with. Unless you're seeing Nina taking buffed Yuri's remaining HP with her physical w/o atk up >____>

Unless I'm mistaken, he wants to kill Nina first, since she can just revive Deis.   Doesn't matter a whole lot, though.

[Excal]

Team Tranquil vs. Floor 3

Yeah, this floor looks a little too much like overkill for the sole reviver to a) stay alive, and b) make any meaningful contributions.  The Songstress can't do her game properly, and Jowy/Deis will see Eiko out of this fairly soon.  Nei follows since she should be getting Sac soon.  While they may hit the middle of the floor, I can't see this party managing to win.


Team Tide vs. Floor 6

I don't feel comfortable enough with this match to vote on it.


Team Tonfa | Cloud, Chemist, Aika, FFX-2 Songstress
[Floor 7]
[Materia: Cover(M), Revive(M), All(M)-Barrier(M), All(M)-Time(M), Destruct(M), HP Plus]
*Cloud has been granted E. Skill Materia
*Songstress has been granted a Mythril Bangle (HP +60%)
Team Tonfa vs. Tidus, Wakka, Aeonless Yuna, Auron
Team Tonfa vs. Jecht and Seymour Flux
*Full Heal
Team Tonfa vs. Orlandu, Meliadoul, Worker 8
Team Tonfa vs. Rika, Chaz, Rune, Wren
*Full Heal
Team Tonfa vs. Profound Darkness and Altima

Team Tonfa vs. Floor 7

I'll admit, that's a bloody clever plan Tonfa came up with.  Cloud taking all the ST Physical attacks, Aika dealing with the magic, then some healing and buffing to keep Cloud alive and ground all the matches down.  The thing is, TG Cid blows his plan to pieces and lets the PS4 brigade have their pick of targets for the kill.

[Clear Tranquil]

Neph - Thanks. I meant status buffs as in skills though. Should have been clearer about that sorry >.> If so songstress could perhaps get a stat buff song going in one of the earlier fights (Jowy?) for walling in the next fights.

**

No offense but it's totally unreasonable not to allow Yuri2 revive by this point It's perfectly feasible for him to have it before Lucia joins even if he a) picks Light first and b) upgrades Light to L2 next and levels when Lucia joins average on L12 - 15 irrc. I can see people not allowing Amon because of Amon's brokeness even if it does come really early in Covenent itself but come on a L2 fusion? >.>

Doesn't matter a whole lot if Songstress is killed.  And she will get killed.  If she tries to shut down Lulu, Yuna just fries her with Holy and unless Lulu is Kongol-level slow (which I doubt),

This is what I assume my team's speed to be at this point (assuming L22 - 24 for Yuri + Lucia is reasonable)

Based on what I got from my files -

Yuri - 30 (w/o fusion - worth noting Yuri gets quite a substanial boost to speed by a combined wind fusion + Gale)
Lucia - 30

Songstress (51)  - I went to check something on FFX-2 since I had an idea. I didn't have an early game file with low level characters so I started a new game. Once I was enable to access my menu to check Songstress I found what I expected. FFX-2 dresspheres start off fixed with high points on certain stats and those stats don't grow much through the game if at all (I had 59 agility on my end game Songstress but that might have had something to do with equipment) So even beginning level Songstress starts with 51 agility at the very beginning of FFX-2. Her magic defence was 33 if that means anything ;p Don't know if that will grow noticably by L22-24 ;p

Eiko + Nei - Hell if I know. I'm playing through FFIX now but am no where close to having Eiko yet. I am inclined now to think she'll be faster than at least Lulu at L22-24 though since L13 Vivi had 17 speed (with equips) and he's slower than her ;p

From what I know of opponents -

Yuna 46

Lulu 21 (Auron is Kongol, Lulu is Albert ^_~)

I don't remember the exact numbers for BoF and silly library won't let me check now but one thing I think I do remember is Songstress not being so slow by comparison.

Now what if we were going by the direct numbers and bigger number > smaller number syndrome. Viola Songstress goes before Lulu *and* Yuna already. Songstress silence + everyone else then going before Lulu gives them time to get the buffs up.

Just by going by direct numbers alone Songstress' speed has been severely underrated. She's not slow at all o_o Dunno where anybody got that idea from.

there isn't exactly a whole lot you can do about her getting a turn during the downtime.  And Lulu getting a turn means at least one person dies here.

You're assuming Yuna lives through Yuri and Nei's Song of Madness boosted damage ;p Since Songstress has shut down Lulu then Lucia doesn't need to stat boost either so she can have a poke as well. Her physicals are normally crummy but it may add up with song of madness added (see strength card in game) ;p Eiko also has access to Silence at this point (just picked up the Mythril Racket (which Eiko can use Silence  from, incidentally it also teaches Life Snow >.>) at Treno Gate airstation at the beginning of disc two so if she does get a turn she shuts down Yuna completely.

Looking at chapter numbers alone, probably either Floor 3 or 4, I'd guess.  I'm inclined to say 4 myself, but what do I know?  Somebody with a better grasp of this tell me if this is at all reasonable.

Fair enough.

Yeah where are all those other SHC fanatics either to back me up or shut me down ;p

For yourself just go by what you think viable before midgame levels are and bear in mind that my Yuri could have accessed his L2 fusions at lower levels than L22, just that I forgot to do so since I wasn't using him in my main party.

Unless I'm mistaken, he wants to kill Nina first, since she can just revive Deis.   Doesn't matter a whole lot, though.

Ah ... so Nina isn't unable to act whilst she's holding someone in place with Hold then?

[Tonfa]

Everyone fails it up.

And now, I would have a moment of silence.


























MICHAEL !!

[Random Consonant]

Poor Mr. Vice President, burning up in the Earth's atmosphere... or whatever the dungeon equivalent is.

But anyways...

I don't remember the exact numbers for BoF and silly library won't let me check now but one thing I think I do remember is Songstress not being so slow by comparison.

Nina and Deis are pretty damn fast, and Songstress is, according to the stat topic, only slightly above average.

You're assuming Yuna lives through Yuri and Nei's Song of Madness boosted damage

Unless I'm missing something, Yuri still has to deal with Yuna's evasion, and SoM goes off after Yuri gets a turn.

Eiko also has access to Silence at this point (just picked up the Mythril Racket (which Eiko can use Silence  from, incidentally it also teaches Life Snow >.>) at Treno Gate airstation at the beginning of disc two so if she does get a turn she shuts down Yuna completely.

Except Silence is innaccurate and isn't hitting until turn 3 (also, Yuna can possibly block it?  I'd have to check) at the earliest (stat topic says it has a 46% hit rate, so ha to that).  And if she tries to land Silence, she's not reviving.  Which means that there's nothing preventing her from being blown up.

[Clear Tranquil]

*waves white flag in surrender*

Personally I think Team Tranquil put up a hell of a fight and it's definitely a team I'd choose again. I feel like with all the information I found out it wasn't instant complete slaughter like was thought at first.

Nina and Deis are pretty damn fast, and Songstress is, according to the stat topic, only slightly above average.

Yeah ... confirming that. Hurhh apparently the second fight was a harder fight that the third for me, that's strange >.>

Unless I'm missing something, Yuri still has to deal with Yuna's evasion, and SoM goes off after Yuri gets a turn.

This is how I view the turn order for this fight -

(Eiko's speed 21 at L20, 22 with equips)

It's close but I think everyone's going before Lulu.

Two scenerios -

1) Apparently Songstress is faster than Yuna! She goes first - Silences Yuna. Yuri fuses to light fusion, gets the increase to the special defence stat that Light fusion gives, casts Barrier on himself, Lucia uses magical defence up on Yuri for combined Barrier + oil stacking effect, Nei slows Lulu, Eiko's sure to go before Lulu now, Eiko probably wants to Haste or Shell Lucia (she goes for Thunder/Wind/Water/Fire halving or ice/thunder absorb through Madain/Coral Ring, Lulu goes for Flare or Death). Lulu finally gets to go! Doublecast - say she now can't OHKO Yuri, she's going to waste a turn so she goes for Eiko and Lucia/Nei next. Don't know if I buy Lulu hitting Lucia with an OHKO, Lucia has her game best magic defence w/o stat buffs, she may not even need to be shelled by Eiko. Say she can KO Nei. Yuri revives Eiko, if Nei's slow doesn't wear off when she's down Eiko's probably going before Lulu again in which case Eiko revives Nei, Lucia begins chipping Lulu down. Ehhh ... Lulu can't keep both my revivers down at once and with Lucia being able to use things like Gale/Rage on herself/Yuri/Eiko as needed between attacking she's probably eventually going to be worn down. Which is exactly how Super scenariod it >.> Especially if hasted Yuri ever manages to double Lulu's got problems. She can't heal herself if she's going for Silenceproof.

1) Songstress uses Stop on Lulu. Yuna kills Songstress with Holy oh noes! Yuri then revives Songstress. Songstress' agiligy is so high that she was probably double turning and gets to go before Lulu again anyway, definitely if Lucia casts Gale on her. Songtress just stops Lulu again - Yuri/Eiko revive - infinite turn loop. Nei is free to SoM and start working on killing things. Also with this route Eiko may get a chance to keep trying for silence on Yuna if Yuri acts as reviver.

Except Silence is innaccurate and isn't hitting until turn 3 (also, Yuna can possibly block it?  I'd have to check) at the earliest (stat topic says it has a 46% hit rate, so ha to that).  And if she tries to land Silence, she's not reviving.  Which means that there's nothing preventing her from being blown up.

Fair enough.